THE BABADOOK (2014) | Why "Perfect" Motherhood is a DANGEROUS Lie

Ryan Does: Okay, everyone, we are jumping into a special Mother's Day themed episode talking about motherhood through the lens of the fantastically wonderful and delightful and whimsical 2014 movie The Babaduok. And I can honestly say I can honestly say this was a movie I was scared to watch. But after watching it, I'm like, ⁓ I'm so I'm scared of it for so many different reasons now. But whimsical is not what I would use to describe this story at all, but I love that you put that in there because it is fairy tale. There is nothing whimsical about this movie. But my friend Rebecca is back to talk about this film. And it was this was a conversation I really wanted to do because Mother's Day is often hard for a lot of people, whether they have lost a mother or they don't have a great relationship with their mother, or they are a mother and there's certain things that just don't get talked about. ⁓ and I am Really thankful to be surrounded by so many great women in my life. And Rebecca is one of them. So I want her to tell you a little bit about herself and a little bit of her resume, but also like why this is such an important topic to discuss for her, and then how she was first introduced to the film The Babadock. So my name is Rebecca Lynn Thomas. I am currently serving on the board of the New Evangelicals, which is a digital first nonprofit organization. If you are familiar, you know what we function at the intersections of faith, culture, and justice, searching for better paths forward in their in our faith. We do this through an online community and also podcasts. ⁓ I co-host TNE Advocacy Hour with Melinda Hale, who is the TNE executive director. So that is an awesome podcast for people who want to be actively involved in advocacy work. And then also I go to school. I'm a doctoral student getting my doctor of ministry and social transformation. At United Theological Seminary. And I mo more recently, like this is so exciting to me because I've wanted this my whole life. I am now officially an ordained minister through the Curian Network, ⁓ which is a new denominational space providing ordination and also like certification for spiritual directors, chaplains, ministers, reverends. So very excited to be part of I love that I can call you Rev now. Rev, Rev Rebel. ⁓ my god. That's so perfect. Debble Rev. I feel like it should be in double rev. ⁓ my gosh. It's got some kick ass to it. Yeah. Let's go. So yeah, this movie in particular, I actually had never heard of it until you and I started talking about it. And then I mentioned to my husband that I was gonna watch it and he was like, ⁓ you're gonna hate that movie. And so that made me really nervous to watch it. I know. ⁓ I was like, I'll be fine, I'll be fine, I'll watch it during the day, which is what I do with movies I think that are gonna be really scary. I watched them at like 10 o'clock in the morning. Yeah, because it's just easier. The lights are on, the sun is out, and I loved it. I I loved it. I didn't really read anything about it beforehand either, other than that it was about ⁓ a recently widowed woman and her young son. And so when I read that, I was like, ⁓ she's a single mom. And I immediately was interested because I was a single mom for a really long time. And we find out really early on in the story that her young son has some difficulties. And we don't really know what those are other than he acts out a lot and they're having difficulty in his school. And I resonate so much with those two. ⁓ my oldest son ⁓ and I struggled through school difficulties for a lot of years. And so I had a lot of resonance with her character, ⁓ the journey she goes on. We never had a Baba Duke in our house, but I I get it. Like I watched this movie and was just like, I feel, I feel so seen. So I'm really excited to talk about it with you. ⁓ my gosh. Yes. I I really did think like your experience was ⁓ a vital part of this conversation because I I have two children and yes, we've had some struggles with school and and some kind of ⁓ learning ⁓ what'll you say learning struggles. So I can speak to that part, but I cannot speak to the single single motherhood and being the parent in that situation. So I'm excited to kind of pick your brain and know what that is like and maybe how that can help others as they experience those in in their personal lives or if they are being empathetic to someone in their lives who has that circumstance. The Babadook was it was a movie that I was legitimately afraid to watch. So because I I feel like I've I've heard so much about it that I was like, what in the world could this movie be? And I kind of knew the Babadook was an entity, but I actually walked out of this movie being afraid of many other different things other than the scary monster in the basement. So this movie actually affected me in a different way than I thought it. I thought it was just be I'm gonna have nightmares about it. But no. Me too. I thought that too. I have different anxieties as a result of this movie. I I just want to share some details about the film. A story summary, and then we'll jump into our discussion with Rebecca about motherhood and how the Babaduok speaks to that and how that can be helpful for us. ⁓ the release date is January 17th of 2014. This is also an Australian film. ⁓ it came out of ⁓ The Land Down Under in 2014. It was directed by Jennifer Kent, and it is based off a book by Jennifer Kent. So very involved. In the creative process of this entire story and something very personal to her. It stars ⁓ Essie Davis and Noah Weissman, and ⁓ it's a very limited cast, but the story is pretty centralized on these this mother and this son. A widowed mother, Amelia, struggles to raise her erratic son Samuel while being haunted by a sinister pop-up book entity called the Babaduok. As the creature's influence grows, Amelia's mental health deteriorates into violent hallucinations, eventually leading her possession to possession in an attempt on Samuel's life. After Samuel helps her expel the darkness through a display of love, Amelia confronts the beast in her basement and forces it into submission. The story concludes with the pair finding peace by isolating and feeding a now subdued entity. Finally allowing them to process their grief and celebrate Samuel's birthday for the first time. So after the loss of her husband, Rebecca is functionally alone. She has neighbors, she has friends, she has coworkers, ⁓ and she has a sister who we ⁓ is probably the side character that we interact with the most throughout the movie. They all express their concern to her. But for for those of us who've never gone through this, help us understand what single motherhood is like. That it's such a big thing, right? It's hard to break down and and just say what it's like. You know what it's not like? I will say this because I see people post things like this online when they say like my wife is out of town for the week or my husband is out of town for the week. So I'm a single parent. No you're not. No you are not. No you're not because you still have a partner and you still have somebody to talk to and you still have someone who makes joint decisions with you. So no you're not. You are solo parenting, but you are not a single parent. And so I think that's an important distinction that, you know, having the opportunity to make it, I think ⁓ maybe that's something that people take for granted. my what I kind of came to the conclusion with after multiple years of being in that space, I'm remarried now and I have a wonderful partner. But during that time, I think the hardest thing was not having a partner. You know, I would sit down to like budget or even like meal planning, anything that required like long-term planning. It was like, I would love to have somebody to sit down with to help me make this decision. Because even like on my own as a person, I don't think I should make all of my decisions without the feedback of other people. So were there people I could bring into my circle? Of course. I had my mom, I had my sister was long distance at the time. I had family, I had some friends. But you learn very quickly that not everyone is trustworthy to bring into that space. People have their own judgments about what you should be doing. And they're based very much on like the traditional family, like mother's role, which does not apply to a single mother's household. There are, I think, a lot of microaggressions that people don't think about. And we see those in this movie a lot. the microaggressions of like those women sitting around the table at the birthday party having the conversation about like I don't even get to go to the gym anymore. You know, and she kind of snaps back at that one that must be really hard for you. I don't know what her name was, but ⁓ but those kinds of things that like it's fine that this woman is talking about how difficult that is, but how lonely it is for the woman who like would love an opportunity to miss going to the gym. Right. Sh that's not even that's such a luxury. Because everything is dependent on that person, on me in that time. I like I said, I had some support. My mom would pick up my kids from school. ⁓ I worked a full-time job. I was fortunate enough to buy a house, but those are things that I did because I wanted to prove the system wrong. So that's also not great either. And I see that now as like I was trying to prove all of these people that I could do this without them, that I didn't need their help. And that's not a byproduct of good. true community. Right. It's that's actually like showing how broken things are. If the if my ⁓ my idea was that I need to prove that. And I feel that with Amelia in this movie as well. She just wants to be a good mom. And I think that I can say that having been a single mom and just being a mom, we all I think I speak for most moms to say that I just really want to be a good mom and know that when my kids are grown, which I have two adult children That I didn't like totally screw them up. That's a little bit. ⁓ my gosh. That is my key anxiety as a parent. Yeah. I just want you to be a functioning kind person who is responsible. You know what? They're gonna have stuff. Because here's the thing about like, I mean, not to say that like, like little tea trauma, right? There's big tea trauma, little tea trauma of like, they're gonna experience things in ways that I didn't intend. Right. And being able to acknowledge that. And we see that in this movie too, right? Even before the Baba Duke even shows up, she is struggling. She's struggling because she's overwhelmed. They characterize this child as an erratic child, right? He does all kinds of stuff that is weird to all these other families whose kids just go to school and follow the rules and they don't do weird stuff. They don't jump out of tree houses and whatever. My kids have all done all the weird stuff. So I totally resonate with that. And Like being that mom who's first of all already not married, my family already doesn't look like what it should. And now my kid is being weird and too much and too aggressive and too whatever. And my kid's not following the rules. Now that is a source, and I mean, maybe people will be upset when I say this, but it's the truth, a source of embarrassment for me. Like this is I now everybody sees that I'm failing. So not only have I failed, they already know I've failed. Now I'm feeling in this. I just don't want to be around them anymore. I'm just gonna go inward then. Yeah. And we see her do that too. I mean, and that's really that is her descent begins there of the the being overwhelmed, being ⁓ I I will say it's almost like it's a handicap. It's a it's a it's not handicapped like I'm sorry. She is often she is often outnumbered. So In the scene where she has the discussion with Samuel's teacher and the principal of the school, it's two against one. Now they state, they state that they are for her. I like if I was in that scenario, put it this way, and one of my kids, I I know both my kids' teachers well enough, I know their principals well enough, I would believe them that they wanted the best for my child. However, it is still two against one. And at the birthday party, it's what five moms against one. They all have similar lives that do not look like Amelia's. So regardless of the intention, now the women at the party, their intention is much more ⁓ I would say harmful. They're ign they don't even recognize that Amelia's really in the room. Samuel's the only boy at the birthday party, that kind of thing. Even they're dressed the same, right? Those moms are all dressed the same and Amelia's dressed differently. It's all Stepford Wives and then Amelia over here who's just like, I haven't slept in weeks. Right. Yes. I just find it funny that the movie asks Amelia as always being one versus more than one. Yeah. She very seldomly Yeah. Just a little bit about that conversation with the the teacher and the principal. Because that was that was such a hard hitting moment for me. I've been in that conversation. I've been in that position, like you said, of like, believe, I believe you. I believe that what you're saying to me is true. And then I walk out of the room and it doesn't go the way that I feel like we all came to this agreement about. ⁓ I've had this happen so many times that that scene was like, I felt it in my bones. Like, It was so hard for me to sit through that scene. Because if you've had a child like Samuel, which I would say both of my sons are very similar to Samuel, you wonder, like, there's something wrong with this kid. But in reality, I I loved how she's like, stop calling him the boy. He has a name. And if it you aren't gonna accept him as he is in this place, then I will take him somewhere else. And that is the mom she like. I think she feels bad that she did that, but in reality, like that's the mom that I've realized now I've needed to be all this time. But the systems are set up to kind of keep us from doing that because it's not nice. But it is the is the advocate that you know she's being in that moment. And I was like, yes. When she got to that, that felt like that's I wish I would have done that for my oldest son when he was younger. But you see this moment of like, God, she did the right thing. Like there's all these things she's struggling with, but she's still. Advocating for ch her child, even though she's exhausted, even though he's like driving her crazy, even though, you know, all these things are happening, she still, he is her priority. And if anyone is familiar with Samuel's imperfections, it's Amelia. If anyone is familiar with the stress and strain that motherhood is putting on them, and that her her child does not neatly fit into a box, it is her. And I think that's another thing that sometimes either we're not honest enough with ourselves or we don't give people enough credit to knowing their kids. It's like you're struggling with something right now. And I think Amelia can do a few things in this moment. She can pretend like nothing's wrong. Which I think at a s certain point she she wants to think that she can still have that life and not confront like those underlying feelings she's having. I I I've I've seen parents in my circles here at home. It's almost safer sometimes to just be like, Nope, I nope, I'm not gonna choose to acknowledge it. Amelia acknowledges it, but like you said, then has no one to back her up. Yeah. And that's the other thing about being a single parent is you're on your own. Yeah. And I mean, I ⁓ I'll I'll be honest. Rebecca's met my wife Kim. Kim and I make a I would like to say we make a pretty good team. There's even times when it is it's a it's a team sport when you're like, ⁓ my gosh. Like two two against one almost feels like we're still outmatched. Because kids throw curveballs at you that Samuel throws every curveball in the book at Amelia. Yep. And what are they supposed to do? It's you know, bringing in to the this conversation The bigger issue that they're dealing with, right? This this death of her husband on Samuel's birth, like literally on the way to the hospital for Samuel to be born. So this has hung over his entire life to the point where he has never celebrated his birthday on his birthday because she just cannot do that. There's so much grief and so much pain and probably anger and resentment because she is having to do this by herself. And that, what a crappy place to be, right? She didn't sign off for that. Not she signed up for. And I want to just add here, most single moms that I know didn't sign up for that either. Like they end up in this space because they had to make a choice, because somebody left them, because somebody else made a decision. And so here we find ourselves. She didn't sign up for this. And yet here is her existence. And so this thing is just clouding everything about their life. And they don't actually, this was a something I noticed in the beginning of the movie. Like He goes to hug her and he says, I love you, mommy. And she's Don't do that. And she like pushes him away. Like it's to the point that they can't even, she can't connect with him really. And it's so sad. Sh she can get him to school. She can pick him up from school. She can feed him. She can make sure he gets to bed. But anything on top of that, she is in a different world. Because it's very, it's very apparent she has not dealt with her husband dying. And I think that is a good way of showing that when, specifically mothers, for the sake of this conversation, when a when a parent is in that situation and you also haven't dealt with maybe the cause of losing someone, whether they have passed or whether they just leave. However that situation occurs, what ends up happening more often than not is the child left behind tends to carry the weight. of the person that's not there. And that, like I I've seen it in speak vaguely and generally, I've seen it in friends and relatives of mine la losing someone in their parental dynamic, we'll put it that way. When that happens, they become the recipient of a lot of feelings that have not been processed well, to put it fairly. Yeah. And I think if we look at, you know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, let's just talk talk about that. Since you said basic like she's doing all the basic things. Right. But there's a level of her needs are not being met. So she's meeting all of his needs. Her needs are not being met. And so therefore they can't move up to any of the h the higher levels. Right. And I think that so even he can't though, because he knows that he's a burden. Even though she doesn't say that, he knows he feels it. I mean, there's a total lack of connection there. And I think that's maybe why she reads that you know reads the book to him is she's trying to create this connection. She's trying to do A little bit more. And to be honest, reading books to my kids was not even high on the priority list when I was a single mom. I had three of them. Three kids. So I it was always getting ready for the next day. And I had my, you know, I had this job, like I said, and making dinner and all these things. It just wasn't there. And so I can see this being almost like a I'm gonna do this extra thing for him tonight. I'm gonna read this book. And it ends up being the most horrific book. that they could possibly have chosen. I don't remember where did this book come from? Do you remember? I it just shows up. Just shows up. Okay. Yeah. Cause I was like, she doesn't know the book. Cause Rebecca, I did I she it's not like it was on his bookshelf and she's like, look the scary one with the guy in the top. Right. No, she even reads him a different book and then he asks for another book and she reaches for this book kind of almost like out of curiosity. She reaches for it. Yeah, but it doesn't matter's book. No, God, no. That's like a weird thing out of Tim Burton's nightmares. And ⁓ and yeah, sh it just keeps showing up as as to represent, like, hey, like you will deal with me. Like you're going to have to deal with me. ⁓ because if not, it's going to irreparably damage your family. And that is like Amelia becomes a victim of the thing she will not deal with. And That is so strongly represented in in the movie. Well, and I love actually the way that they show that it it affects Samuel first. Like he sees the Babaduke first. And when there is stuff in a family dynamic that's going on that needs to be dealt with, very often it will end up with an identified patient. There is the one person in the family that is the problem, that is the reason we're struggling with all of this. They are If they would just get better, then everything else will be fine. And Samuel is that identified patient in this movie at first. And I love how I don't know if she did that on purpose, but that is a normal response when there is something like a death in the family or like mental illness or something like that. There will be one person that becomes sort of the scapegoat or, like I said, identified patient. And then every effort is given and put forth to caring for and helping that person. As opposed to the family system, which is what really needs the help. So when we see her start to be affected by the Babaduke, because she's this whole time been like, it's not real, it's not real. Like you're being ridiculous, taking him to the doctor and getting him on sleeping pills and all this stuff. And then we start seeing it happening to her. That's just like the family system, we're starting to see that is actually being affected by this grief and tragedy that. Needs to be dealt with because it's not gonna go away. He's not gonna go away until she acknowledges him. Well, and and that kind of like that gets to the the third act of the movie and and the start of the, you know, the kind of the always darkest before the dawn moment for her, she confronts her suppressed rage, she reclaims this identity, but she She kind of learns how to be better equipped to deal with it because the key thing about the Babadook as a movie is the Babaduok doesn't go away. It's not like she just asserts her identity, she starts taking care of herself, she has more compassion and empathy towards Samuel, and the Babaduok just disappears. The Babaduk lives with her. And that is, I'm sure there have been papers and articles written about this to exhausting. Extent. But she has to live with this thing. And she learns how to live with it. It harms her. She has to literally regurgitate it out before she harms her son irreparably. I think that's probably the the most visceral thing this movie is known for is a mother doing harm to her son. So I guess Rebecca, two parts of that, and I I I told them out of order. How do we relate? With especially mothers not being perfect and loving their little baby angels all the time. How do we empathize with that? But also, how do we get people to realize like ⁓ a lot of the biggest hurts in our lives, they don't go away. Like they tend to live with us for a while, if not forever. I think it is forever, right? Like grief is not a thing we process to get through to the it's a thing we process to figure out how to engage it in our life. I don't think it's a thing we can ever move on from entirely. Like so I I think that the way the movie closes out is so good. Yeah. Because like you said, he he doesn't leave. The Babaduok is there still. It's not a fairy tale. Right. I think what strikes me and I I resonate with this story so much because we start with the identified patient, like we said, Samuel is having these problems and then it passes on to her. And I sort of went through this with my oldest son. ⁓ when he was 17 years old, this is in 2020, he went to a treatment facility in Colorado. He was having a lot of anxiety, depression, screen addiction, like a lot, you know, he wasn't doing drugs or any of that yet, but that was my concern. Like we're going down this path that it's going to be really, really difficult. And so he goes through all of this four months of intensive Therapy and he's getting this help. And I'm like, this is great because he's gonna be better. So then we'll all get better. And what actually happened was he got better. He's still struggling to this day. But what I discovered was holy shit, like there's a lot in me that also needs to be recognized and looked at and then loved, like with what Samuel did for his mom, right? He that was the redeeming moment, or that was the that's what saved her was this. He could look at her and know this wasn't her and love her separate to separate it out. Right. And that's the realization is like we are not the things that happen to us, but they can become this insidious part of us if we don't do the work to recognize them. And if we want to pass that off on to somebody else, we're still gonna end up being affected by it. It's not gonna go away. So, you know, I think that was such a poignant part for me. Also, like her sister. talks to her a lot about like, didn't you want to be a writer? Didn't you want to do these things? You know, it's been seven years. It's time you move on. And I think that too is like, there is no timeline. And especially with somebody who can barely get beyond the basic needs, providing the basic needs to her child, she can't even necessarily provide that to herself. How is she going to move on? And I think that's the piece we miss is like when people have gone through really, really hard things, they don't know what they need. Like I was at such a I will never forget this. I was at a women's retreat actually in Northern California, probably twenty seventeen. And there had just been some really, really bad fires up in that area. This I think it's when there's a little town up there, Paradise or something, got totally wiped out by fires. And there was a panel of women and they were talking about their experiences, like losing their homes and all this stuff. And one of the women said, you know, people kept asking me, What do you need? What do you need? What do you need? And she's like, I don't know what I need. And I was so struck by that because I was like, Yes, I have been asked what do I need? And I don't know because every day is different. But if somebody said, Hey, and this is what she sh excuse me, what she said, she was like, Let's not ask what do you need? Let's give options so that a choice can be made. Because if I have to think through as a single mom who's balancing three kids going to school, a job, a house, a meal plan, you know, activities. Because my kids were in sports and all this if I'm trying to balance all of that, how can I tell you what I need? I need money. It's always gonna you know, like if you're Right. Is money. But if you are like really if it's if there's any advice I could give people, if there are people listening that are like, what can I do then? It's it's the things like I'm going to the grocery store tomorrow, are there a few things that you that I could pick up for you? I'm making lasagna, I'm gonna make two. Would you like yours to have meat or not? It's like not even giving an option. Right. To say no, it's I'm doing this for you. ⁓ and the other thing is as somebody who is hyper independent, is like learning how to receive that and now being able to give, like I've realized like, ⁓ my gosh, it's such a joy for the giver too. Like, but learning how to receive is is difficult and it is a process in itself. But I think it is the like looking at what the person does and saying, you know, I noticed you are really busy, could you use a couple hours for me to come over and help you clean your kitchen? Yeah. I need you know, like could my son come over and mow your lawn? Like that kind of stuff. Because it's no one knows what they need in the middle of tragedy. In the middle of trying to deal with these major life, no one knows what they really need. And yeah. I think she didn't know what she needed. Well, and we we do see a few moments of people trying to do that. The the coworker that is trying to be very, very sweet. And like, I'm like, that guy, that guy's a keeper. ⁓ he comes over and she's embarrassed instantly because Samuel's not he acts out. ⁓ he even asks, like, Are you gonna be my new dad? It's like, what the like again, those are moments in the movie where I'm just like, Okay, people are. Attempt making that attempt and her neighbor, ⁓ older woman that lives next door is very sweet and very engaging and is kind of like a low-key cheerleader for her. And Amelia does have those moments where she doesn't, it appears that she doesn't even feel like she's worth those interactions because by the standard that is hanging over her head, she is supposed to do this herself. Yeah. Or the person she was supposed to do this with is no longer there. So she has to keep soldiering on and that she's such a relatable character. And possible, really. You know, that idea of just soldiering on. It's it's so sad to me that we live in a time when like that there's so much shame that people do seclude themselves or they they can't open themselves up. And I I have absolutely been there. Like that is so relatable for me. Because my life should have looked different and it didn't. Rebecca, as we kind of wrap up this Mother's Day ⁓ themed conversation, what would you say to those who are mothers or those who know ⁓ know a mom? They are know someone who is going through a similar scenario. How would you help us reimagine motherhood as a perception? You know, I gotta do it by myself, I gotta be perfect, I've gotta have this version of a life to feel fulfilled and whole. As opposed to motherhood in reality. You know, I think there's a lot to be said for the the almost mythology that we've been sold about like the nuclear family and family values. Because I think family really there can be chosen family, there can be all kinds of ways of of doing life together. One of my favorite phrases. And you know, a lot of people would say to me often, you'll find the right man someday to lead your family. hated it when people would say that. And I finally had a moment one day where I was like, you know, if I had to have a man to lead my family, I would have one. Like God is fully aware that my family looks exactly like it looks right now. And if it was supposed to be different, it would be different. And so this must be okay. And so my my encouragement to women who are in this space is that you're a leader because you are one, not because of any other reason. And you don't need somebody else to come in and lead you. Because you have everything you need to lead your family. However, I believe in the importance of partnership among people and in community. And I don't think that has to look like a marriage. I think that can look like a best friend. I think that can look like my parents, you know, were were supportive of me in their own ways. ⁓ I had another single mom that I was really close with. And so we did dinners once a week. You know, I think there's a lot of ways to be in partnership with people. So to Say that it needs to look like this one way is so limiting to the possibilities of what could be built if we lived in community and if we reimagined partnership to really be about like providing the scaffolding for people to live full and whole alive, it would make such a difference. And we have such a high population of varied family structures in this country that, you know, to say that it's the nuclear, I think it's something like only 27% of families are that structure. Which is kind of a mind-boggling figure, which means that there are a lot of families that probably need more partnership. ⁓ and I don't think it's the the responsibility of social systems to do that necessarily. I think it's our responsibility as people. And so what I would say is if if people have someone in their life who is a single parent or somebody who is the caretaker of a sick spouse, because that's a whole nother situation. Absolutely. ⁓ you know, just showing up, providing meals, not asking, don't ask what do you need. Say what you have to give and let them decide. That's great. That's what I say. And and I I'm sure if if someone listening to this cannot identify someone in their life who meets one of those requirements that Rebecca just said of knowing a single parent, knowing a single mom, knowing a single dad, knowing someone who is taking care of a ⁓ an ill loved one or someone who is recovering from ⁓ surgery. So that there's a different there's So many different things. Partnership is so key. And I'm I'm I'm proud to say that there are people in my life that I've identified that with. And I'm like, I don't have everything, but I but I have enough. And it's the it's the line from Lord of the Rings: I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you. That is pretty much the backbone of what it means to be in community with people and to, as Rebecca said, do life. with them. And that's so fundamental, so key. So if you can think of someone in your life that meets those requirements, what are what what are we doing? What's going to happen next? What's our next step? But Rebecca, thank you so much. This I I I did not think that a conversation about the Babaduok would make me feel this warm and fuzzy inside. And ⁓ and ⁓ thank you for lending your experience. Thank you for lending your your motherhood war stories to us that we can learn from. Happy to