#201 The Knowledge Gap Has Gaps

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Well,
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Jacob, you know, usually, I have a question
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for you, but
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today is kind of a big history making
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day.
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So
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I don't know. I'm kinda distracted from the
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news.
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Yeah.
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So I Don't I'm not... Anyway. I felt
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like we probably need to say something you
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did too, I think. So Yeah. But then
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it's it's 1 of those things to where
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we
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it would
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What thing we've tried to always keep real
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is on this podcast where
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we talk about the actual real world that
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how to fix everyone. And sometimes that veer
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into politics as we've noted before you and
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I've always tried to keep a
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a neutral stance on the vast majority of
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things just because we can we can acknowledge
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the issues without hallway without alien any of
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our listeners, You know what I? You and
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You do today that. Yeah. Well, and it's
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not even... I think a lot of times
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people get either needed on accident, but
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think you and I are politically savvy enough
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to to know what is a alien topic
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and things that
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are are hard to talk about when you're
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not just in a conversation with good friends
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or people that you trust or whatever it's
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where you can openly talk about disagreements and
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whatnot. It's should it's hard come on a
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microphone and and say these things. All of
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that to say is we've...
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You know, I feel like we navigate it
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fairly well considering how often politics creep into
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what we talk about. But, you know, when
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you're about to jump on a podcast,
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and then
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American history is being made in front of
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you,
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because of an
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assassination attempt
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on former president Donald Trump,
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you know, it it becomes something that you
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have to acknowledge, and it's something that I
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feel like is why
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you and I do this type of show,
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why I do teach me teacher why
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we believe in education is because the this...
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The... What's happened... What happened today? Literally, like,
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what an hour or 2 ago if that.
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Mh.
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Okay. Is going to shape
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the rest
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of our lives.
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Like, it's it's
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hands down. This... We were just
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in a, a life altering event. And, you
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know, I I think it's important to realize
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that in the he of that, but I
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think it's also important to say
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you know, as as 2 people that you
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and I hold our various personal political beliefs,
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but neither of us,
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can condone political violence. We don't condone
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no matter how much you may quote unquote
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hate someone or spy someone or no matter
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what the political rhetoric is around someone.
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There's a line that you shouldn't cross. You
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definitely shouldn't cross it in a democracy. And
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I know of course American history would say,
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You know, we we don't always hold that
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line, but even still,
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I don't think this is
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a cheering matter on any side other than
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the fact that
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Trump didn't die. He he just got Nick,
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but there was someone. There was a casualty
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in the audience. And so Yeah. Their stuff
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to acknowledge with that too you. And there...
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There's... It's it's it's so much, and it's
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so fresh and part in my stumbling,
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because it... It's hard to just talk about
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in general because it's... There's so much that
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we as Americans are very pride of. There's
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so much that we should be pride of.
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But events like this, there's
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the only thing that's gonna come from this
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is change and it's gonna be drastic change.
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And I'd be willing to bet that there's
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going to be ripple effect. For years and
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years and years based on this.
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And all because people
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feel like their personal beliefs. Their political beliefs
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that are, you know, essentially
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made up in society. Right? There's no
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law of political beliefs in the universe. This
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is something we've decided that we
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stand on as people of a country.
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That someone thinks that that's so important that
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they would try to take the life of
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somebody.
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And then, you know, assuming accidentally take the
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life of people in the audience. So couldn't
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condemn it enough.
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But we...
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I'm a let you talk here just a
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second I'll show, but I just wanted to
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say, like,
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in general, this is this is why
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I believe in the power of conversation, it's
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why I believe in
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the the power of discussion why I think
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people should face each other in disagreements, so
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we understand each other. And so
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radicals
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don't
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become emboldened
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by
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rhetoric that really just doesn't help anybody. And
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I think that's Unfortunately, probably what's the case
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here is someone who,
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most likely was mentally unstable,
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maybe someone that you know, there could be
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any number of issues going on there. But
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more importantly, they were radical by political ideology
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that led them to do something terrible. So
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I don't support it. I it's it's a
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day that
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a yet another historical event in my life
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time that I'll be talking about forever and
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that's going to be in the history books.
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And so my condolences has go out to
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everybody that was affected, and the people that
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will continue to be affected by this,
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the families that are attached to all corners
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of this. I can only imagine what their
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next few weeks let alone years are going
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to be.
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Yeah. And I just felt like we needed
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to to sail Summit at the top show.
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Go ahead.
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Yeah. I mean, I agree with you. I
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I don't think that,
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political violence is is any kind of answer.
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I definitely don't condone it as perfect fact.
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I I really
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despise
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violence, to be honest. I, you know, I
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I always want peace, I always pray for
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peace, and I I pray for peace for
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for our world and and definitely for the
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next coming days, because, you know, they're walking
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right into the their
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the Republican committee,
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national committee
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meetings. And
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so I think it's... Definitely security is gonna
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be a lot higher.
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There's a lot of times I think I
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was telling you, like, right before we came
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on a little bit that, you know, I
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remember when when Reagan was shot and how
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it impacted the whole school day not to
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mention the whole year, and we still talked
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about it.
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So
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I'm I'm impressed with how fast
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our
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security systems
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work when these things happen, You know, they
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they get these people pretty quickly. They did
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today.
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But I really wanna say condolences, and, my
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respect to
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the people that were were injured and killed
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today. And their families, and I'll be praying
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for them. And
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also that,
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for her president Trump will
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heal quickly.
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And that
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I he'll be able to be peaceful as
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well because I can't imagine having that kind
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of attack.
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On me, you know, for whatever. I mean,
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you can talk to tough all you want,
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but for it to actually happen, I hope
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it doesn't have any
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trauma that that occurs because of it. I
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would hate that for anybody.
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So, but anyway, yeah. I'm like, you, there's
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You know, when you live long enough, you
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starts, you know, that you you live through
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quite a few things. You know, my my
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parents still talked about Kennedy and
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And those types of things and and we
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still are not over that as a as
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a society. I mean, it gets brought up.
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All the time.
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So,
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anyway, I... I want this to see it
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again. I hope we never go through this
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again.
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Yeah. And so whatever
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political
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side you're on whatever,
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political stance you take, you know, for for
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us craft and draft,
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and I assume most of our audience because
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a lot of you guys yeah. I'll tag
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long for a while.
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Truthfully.
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But but on a serious note, it is
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1 of those things to where, you know,
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we we
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this shouldn't happen,
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and we shouldn't tolerate it.
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There's ways to
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to combat people you disagree with and violence
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is never
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the 1 you choose.
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It's never the 1 that works. And
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you know,
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what is probably
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most likely going to happen is this guy
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thought he had a solution to something
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and I would be willing to bet whatever
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solution He thought he was making. He's about
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to get the exact opposite
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reaction.
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On a massive scale.
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Written that... That... That's just regardless of political
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stance. I think that's just a fact.
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And so, you know,
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we I'm sure this is gonna affect a
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lot of things. And
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we'll we'll cover that as it, Is it
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intersect with crap and drive. Not a political
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podcast, We don't plan on banking it 1,
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but at times, politics intersect,
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just like this book study, and what a
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perfect little bridge to say that's Pam C.
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I'm Jacob Cha.
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We're 2
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educators down in the state of texas. Do
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love time about reading writing workshop and so
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much more. If you like this episode 1.
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This is gonna be recorded. We we posted
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this to be live for our listeners.
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But given the events of the world right
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now,
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literally happening as we were going on today.
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Not sure if video is gonna jump on,
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so that's okay. This is why we record
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these and we post them, but you're only
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gonna see the video if you jump over
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to the patreon and supporters us. So if
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you would like to support us there, you
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do that patreon dot com slash
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craft and draft where we post all of
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our extra videos, all of the the longer
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portions of the episodes. A lot of y'all
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guys are getting about 30 minutes or so
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on the free feeds for this book study.
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Those episodes were about an hour and 30
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hour and 45 minutes of deep discussion, me
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discussion covering all kinds of topics.
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And today is meant to be kind of
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just the the capstone of that. We've had
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some distance from the book.
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And then we'll probably
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me or some other topics.
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And given the he of the way this
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episode started, you know, we we may not
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go fully into just the depth of what
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we usually do for crafting and draft, which
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is
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perfectly okay. That is the world we live
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00:10:21,852 --> 00:10:23,369
in and we are real world people. We're
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00:10:23,369 --> 00:10:24,327
not trying to put on a show for
287
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you guys other than a show of 2
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real people having conversations. So Ladies Gentlemen,
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Thank you again, and I wanna give a
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shout out to our supporters. They are Leah
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00:10:34,318 --> 00:10:37,451
Rebecca, Melissa Susan Lori, Test Tracy
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00:10:37,764 --> 00:10:39,997
Jenny. And Wendy all supporters over there on
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00:10:40,236 --> 00:10:41,832
Patreon. Thank you so much for joining us
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00:10:41,832 --> 00:10:45,102
over there. Thank you for keeping the lights
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on as we like to say over here
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at the podcast and hopefully,
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you enjoy the bonus content coming your way
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and all of the sudden that we've already
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posted. So with all that said,
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get to the conversation.
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Oh, C.
302
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Yes.
303
00:11:03,218 --> 00:11:05,128
Feels weird to talk about reading you your
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workshop right now.
305
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Yeah.
306
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A little bit. Right? I mean, I know
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we can
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to the... Honestly, this this may be a
309
00:11:16,037 --> 00:11:17,730
shorter episode because it's just
310
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ace it's just 1 of those days. You
311
00:11:19,946 --> 00:11:21,001
know, you can't
312
00:11:21,375 --> 00:11:22,827
plan for these things. So
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I will
314
00:11:26,394 --> 00:11:28,072
Actually, you know what? I wanna tell you...
315
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Because I wanted to tell you this off
316
00:11:29,831 --> 00:11:31,908
air. But I will tell you here since,
317
00:11:31,988 --> 00:11:33,986
you know, we... I don't think anyone's gonna
318
00:11:33,986 --> 00:11:36,476
join us today honestly because of the stuff
319
00:11:36,476 --> 00:11:38,386
going on and and then obviously just the
320
00:11:38,386 --> 00:11:40,557
news of of everything. So
321
00:11:41,568 --> 00:11:44,194
can Can I start with a my new
322
00:11:44,194 --> 00:11:44,694
job
323
00:11:45,322 --> 00:11:46,777
and then we can bridge that.
324
00:11:48,027 --> 00:11:49,141
Congratulations. Thank yeah.
325
00:11:49,697 --> 00:11:51,447
So Yeah. That's pretty awesome.
326
00:11:52,179 --> 00:11:53,296
I told Show with this,
327
00:11:54,013 --> 00:11:55,050
a little bit For those of you follow
328
00:11:55,050 --> 00:11:56,486
me on social media, which I know there's
329
00:11:56,486 --> 00:11:57,762
there's a few of you for craft and
330
00:11:57,762 --> 00:11:59,916
draft, that follow me, like, on Instagram and
331
00:11:59,995 --> 00:12:00,713
Facebook and whatnot.
332
00:12:02,322 --> 00:12:04,811
There are... Yeah, if I left
333
00:12:05,266 --> 00:12:07,970
my previous district. So we made 2 works
334
00:12:07,970 --> 00:12:09,738
in the district districts together, I left went
335
00:12:09,738 --> 00:12:11,014
to a different district for the last 2
336
00:12:11,014 --> 00:12:12,531
years as an assistant principle.
337
00:12:13,648 --> 00:12:15,962
What's unhappy about it from my point, but
338
00:12:16,122 --> 00:12:16,840
I was glad for him.
339
00:12:17,969 --> 00:12:20,512
And now, I'm in the same district as
340
00:12:20,512 --> 00:12:22,181
the partner that O show and I always
341
00:12:22,181 --> 00:12:22,419
reference,
342
00:12:23,293 --> 00:12:25,598
especially mh. And, like, the earlier episodes,
343
00:12:27,529 --> 00:12:28,970
she is in that same. We're not the
344
00:12:28,970 --> 00:12:30,750
same school unfortunately, but
345
00:12:31,769 --> 00:12:33,610
I've talked to her principles recently, and I
346
00:12:33,610 --> 00:12:35,697
said, I said... Because I... I met them...
347
00:12:36,334 --> 00:12:37,927
Her people, I met them when she went
348
00:12:37,927 --> 00:12:38,087
there.
349
00:12:39,122 --> 00:12:41,034
Wrote a a convention, and I told them
350
00:12:41,113 --> 00:12:42,786
I said hey, y'all just got this English
351
00:12:42,786 --> 00:12:44,953
teacher. She's incredible. Take care of her. And
352
00:12:45,112 --> 00:12:47,503
I asked them 2 years later when I
353
00:12:47,503 --> 00:12:48,779
ran into them, I said, hey. How's it
354
00:12:48,779 --> 00:12:50,851
going? And they're like, she's incredible.
355
00:12:51,423 --> 00:12:52,696
She's 1 of the best. I was like
356
00:12:52,776 --> 00:12:54,787
I told you. Yeah. I was, like, she
357
00:12:55,639 --> 00:12:56,139
unstoppable
358
00:12:56,673 --> 00:12:58,835
as an educator. So... But I'm in a
359
00:12:58,835 --> 00:12:59,471
brand new district,
360
00:13:00,504 --> 00:13:01,933
very happy about where I'm at.
361
00:13:03,284 --> 00:13:05,111
I'm working with a principal who is well
362
00:13:05,111 --> 00:13:07,672
known in the principal world She's been the
363
00:13:07,672 --> 00:13:09,828
president of Ta ASP,
364
00:13:10,785 --> 00:13:12,882
which is Texas Association of secondary
365
00:13:13,898 --> 00:13:14,377
principles.
366
00:13:15,908 --> 00:13:16,408
And
367
00:13:17,263 --> 00:13:18,480
it's... She's
368
00:13:18,856 --> 00:13:21,508
incredible. She's... She has forgotten
369
00:13:21,884 --> 00:13:24,832
more than what I'll probably learn or definitely
370
00:13:24,832 --> 00:13:26,384
more than I've into now
371
00:13:27,241 --> 00:13:29,476
as a leader in educator, and she's so
372
00:13:29,476 --> 00:13:32,668
supportive and she has put together an astonishing
373
00:13:32,668 --> 00:13:34,105
team. But the reason I wanted to start
374
00:13:34,105 --> 00:13:35,716
with isn't just talk about my new job,
375
00:13:35,876 --> 00:13:36,913
but it's was talking about... I was talking
376
00:13:36,993 --> 00:13:38,509
Ot show, So we had... You know, when
377
00:13:38,509 --> 00:13:39,386
you go to a new district, you know,
378
00:13:39,546 --> 00:13:41,461
they do, like, orientation and all this other
379
00:13:41,461 --> 00:13:41,620
stuff.
380
00:13:42,909 --> 00:13:43,307
I,
381
00:13:46,092 --> 00:13:47,922
we had, like, our... Like, a it was
382
00:13:47,922 --> 00:13:50,150
like a Ap introduction. Right? They just tell
383
00:13:50,150 --> 00:13:51,999
us all about the ins and out to
384
00:13:51,999 --> 00:13:54,076
the district, but they spent tons of time
385
00:13:54,076 --> 00:13:56,654
on curriculum which I was super excited about
386
00:13:56,713 --> 00:13:59,670
because my pre district didn't do that. The
387
00:13:59,670 --> 00:14:02,069
only thing they really told us was you
388
00:14:02,069 --> 00:14:03,657
can't do this. You can't do that. You
389
00:14:03,657 --> 00:14:05,007
can't do that. I have a whole...
390
00:14:05,563 --> 00:14:07,310
I have to navigate that conversation in a
391
00:14:07,310 --> 00:14:09,161
very specific way because I don't wanna
392
00:14:09,868 --> 00:14:12,278
put certain on blast, but
393
00:14:12,653 --> 00:14:14,882
I I do have... There there there were
394
00:14:14,882 --> 00:14:16,474
certain things that were just kind of very
395
00:14:16,474 --> 00:14:17,747
closed off with the district where I was.
396
00:14:17,907 --> 00:14:18,782
But where I'm at now,
397
00:14:19,832 --> 00:14:20,231
their...
398
00:14:21,267 --> 00:14:23,019
What they talked about a lot. And I...
399
00:14:23,179 --> 00:14:25,830
The reason why this is relevant is
400
00:14:26,938 --> 00:14:29,328
we talked about at the end, a lot
401
00:14:29,328 --> 00:14:31,160
of our criticisms of the knowledge gap was
402
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,253
how much Natalie We has been
403
00:14:34,027 --> 00:14:35,085
critic of
404
00:14:36,831 --> 00:14:38,905
workshop. And she kind of took a lot
405
00:14:38,905 --> 00:14:41,377
of shots at Lucy Hawkins as the workshop
406
00:14:41,377 --> 00:14:43,290
person, even though there's a lot more than
407
00:14:43,370 --> 00:14:45,933
Lucy Hawkins out there. She kinda made Lucy
408
00:14:46,091 --> 00:14:47,702
Call the the the centerpiece
409
00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:50,615
of that counter argument, which, you know, we'll
410
00:14:50,615 --> 00:14:52,123
probably discuss if that's fair or not in
411
00:14:52,123 --> 00:14:53,258
this episode. But
412
00:14:54,683 --> 00:14:57,000
sitting among people peabody. So I went from
413
00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:58,838
a district that was on and off of
414
00:14:59,078 --> 00:15:00,995
Workshop, you and me, the same district you
415
00:15:00,995 --> 00:15:03,090
and I worked at. They were on again
416
00:15:03,090 --> 00:15:05,250
off giving workshop and school in student choice.
417
00:15:05,490 --> 00:15:08,690
Yeah. It depended on the year, the pressure,
418
00:15:08,850 --> 00:15:11,743
who they hired, etcetera, etcetera etcetera. Right? Now
419
00:15:11,743 --> 00:15:14,776
that doesn't mean we ever were necessarily pushed
420
00:15:14,776 --> 00:15:16,532
to not do those things, but it was...
421
00:15:16,771 --> 00:15:18,207
There was times where it felt really great
422
00:15:18,207 --> 00:15:20,217
to give students choice and going into to
423
00:15:20,217 --> 00:15:21,834
workshop and there's times where it felt like
424
00:15:21,892 --> 00:15:23,647
we were kind of behind the grain. Yeah.
425
00:15:23,966 --> 00:15:26,199
High in a little bit. And never because
426
00:15:26,199 --> 00:15:27,896
the district was was overt
427
00:15:28,273 --> 00:15:29,071
controlling ever,
428
00:15:30,041 --> 00:15:31,472
it was just 1 of those things. The
429
00:15:31,472 --> 00:15:32,903
conversation shifted around so on. And then I
430
00:15:32,903 --> 00:15:34,333
went to a district where workshop was on
431
00:15:34,333 --> 00:15:35,764
the out. They were, like, we're done with
432
00:15:35,764 --> 00:15:37,036
this. We're done with all of this. We
433
00:15:37,036 --> 00:15:38,467
don't wanna do any of this, But why
434
00:15:38,467 --> 00:15:40,231
would the we wanna strip it down to
435
00:15:40,231 --> 00:15:42,853
the most specific version it could possibly be.
436
00:15:43,330 --> 00:15:45,078
And then I moved to 1 of the
437
00:15:45,078 --> 00:15:47,798
top performing districts in the state of Texas
438
00:15:47,798 --> 00:15:48,914
and guess what they're talking about.
439
00:15:49,790 --> 00:15:53,774
Reg and writing a workshop. And and here's
440
00:15:53,774 --> 00:15:55,208
the thing, Oc. And I told the show
441
00:15:55,208 --> 00:15:57,317
a little bit this a little bit
442
00:15:57,774 --> 00:15:59,529
off air. So you just sent me some
443
00:15:59,529 --> 00:16:01,762
images. So that's why I knew them. I
444
00:16:01,762 --> 00:16:03,756
knew because I knew I knew from the
445
00:16:03,756 --> 00:16:05,272
images because, you know, we know this, like.
446
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,780
I've lived this. And so the minute you,
447
00:16:08,860 --> 00:16:10,763
you know, didn't... It it was funny because
448
00:16:10,763 --> 00:16:11,953
you show me the images, and I was,
449
00:16:12,033 --> 00:16:12,191
like,
450
00:16:12,984 --> 00:16:15,144
that... They're doing work shop. And then obviously,
451
00:16:15,224 --> 00:16:17,691
you go, hey, they're doing workshop. Like, III
452
00:16:17,691 --> 00:16:19,681
knew that, actually. I knew they were doing
453
00:16:19,681 --> 00:16:22,641
workshop. Yeah. Based on that. Right? Just based
454
00:16:22,641 --> 00:16:24,631
on what what they were saying, yeah, on
455
00:16:24,631 --> 00:16:27,178
their images. Yeah. Well, that's the funny part
456
00:16:27,178 --> 00:16:30,139
about this is when you're in this all
457
00:16:30,139 --> 00:16:31,813
the time and you've read... I mean, Oc
458
00:16:31,813 --> 00:16:33,168
chose read form more than I have. But
459
00:16:33,168 --> 00:16:35,320
when you've read, you know, the the essential
460
00:16:35,878 --> 00:16:37,951
Because says research you've read the essential books,
461
00:16:38,110 --> 00:16:39,800
you've you've talked to the amount of people
462
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,672
that I've talked to or you've you've been
463
00:16:42,672 --> 00:16:43,172
around
464
00:16:43,629 --> 00:16:44,448
some in,
465
00:16:45,942 --> 00:16:49,304
research and presenters and just processes like in
466
00:16:49,384 --> 00:16:50,361
Ab sac,
467
00:16:51,054 --> 00:16:52,884
you just know that when you hear certain
468
00:16:52,884 --> 00:16:54,952
things are like, oh, yeah. They're speaking of
469
00:16:54,952 --> 00:16:55,404
this
470
00:16:55,842 --> 00:16:58,728
correctly. Like this is within the realm
471
00:16:59,102 --> 00:17:00,375
of what this is it. What this is.
472
00:17:00,534 --> 00:17:01,647
And you also know when they're like, oh
473
00:17:01,647 --> 00:17:03,317
yeah, they're talking about workshop and that's nice.
474
00:17:03,889 --> 00:17:05,639
But what they're really talking about doesn't...
475
00:17:06,276 --> 00:17:08,981
Yeah. They're they're not as cohesive where I'm
476
00:17:08,981 --> 00:17:09,799
at now
477
00:17:10,174 --> 00:17:10,992
and thank
478
00:17:11,303 --> 00:17:12,121
the universe,
479
00:17:12,892 --> 00:17:14,981
they speak it correctly,
480
00:17:15,355 --> 00:17:16,944
so much so that I sent 1 picture
481
00:17:16,944 --> 00:17:19,779
of c she knew. But they're also they're
482
00:17:19,899 --> 00:17:22,929
so encouraging of, like, it was so refreshing
483
00:17:22,929 --> 00:17:24,842
to sit and, you know, you're already nervous.
484
00:17:25,002 --> 00:17:26,517
Right? You have some anxiety. You're in a
485
00:17:26,517 --> 00:17:27,951
new place. It doesn't matter how excited you
486
00:17:27,951 --> 00:17:29,720
are to have the it's new, You're meeting
487
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:31,791
new people, your... All of your antennas are
488
00:17:31,791 --> 00:17:31,950
up,
489
00:17:32,906 --> 00:17:35,137
and then you sit among people and they
490
00:17:35,137 --> 00:17:35,296
say,
491
00:17:35,948 --> 00:17:38,017
we believe in choice, and we believe kids
492
00:17:38,017 --> 00:17:39,074
should read widely,
493
00:17:39,926 --> 00:17:42,393
and we believe that teachers can teach to
494
00:17:42,393 --> 00:17:44,302
student interest and we can teach the standards
495
00:17:44,302 --> 00:17:46,250
through student interest and we want students
496
00:17:46,626 --> 00:17:49,493
to read and write so much across the
497
00:17:49,493 --> 00:17:51,245
curriculum. It sounds like I'm making up and
498
00:17:51,405 --> 00:17:53,099
I'm not... Across the curriculum,
499
00:17:53,888 --> 00:17:54,525
that kids,
500
00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,787
they they gain all of this information because
501
00:17:57,787 --> 00:17:59,935
they're writing in social studies. They're writing, like
502
00:17:59,935 --> 00:18:02,242
scientists. They're writing, like historians. And that was
503
00:18:02,242 --> 00:18:03,768
the other thing. They stood up there and
504
00:18:03,768 --> 00:18:06,392
said, we want kids to read history, like
505
00:18:06,392 --> 00:18:08,141
historians want them to read science like a,
506
00:18:08,379 --> 00:18:10,707
scientist. Who want them to do math like
507
00:18:10,923 --> 00:18:13,428
mathematicians. So we want them to use language
508
00:18:13,487 --> 00:18:15,903
and interact with that. And so it was
509
00:18:16,441 --> 00:18:18,596
even though you and I have kind of
510
00:18:18,596 --> 00:18:21,230
been diving into how a lot of districts
511
00:18:21,230 --> 00:18:22,997
and a lot schools are moving away from
512
00:18:22,997 --> 00:18:24,587
this. A lot of it influenced by the
513
00:18:24,587 --> 00:18:25,860
knowledge gap which is why we read it
514
00:18:25,860 --> 00:18:27,292
in the first place. That's why we read
515
00:18:27,292 --> 00:18:27,769
it. Yeah.
516
00:18:28,739 --> 00:18:31,200
It was so refreshing to end up in
517
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,129
a place where it seems
518
00:18:34,852 --> 00:18:36,995
it that it seems like they may have
519
00:18:36,995 --> 00:18:37,765
read this and went
520
00:18:38,282 --> 00:18:39,318
I'm good. You know what I mean?
521
00:18:40,911 --> 00:18:42,504
Yeah. Right no.
522
00:18:43,381 --> 00:18:45,054
And it it was so nice because they
523
00:18:45,054 --> 00:18:47,180
they knew what they were talking about. They
524
00:18:47,378 --> 00:18:49,447
stood as the kids say they stood on
525
00:18:49,447 --> 00:18:49,947
business
526
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,151
with what they were gonna do right? They
527
00:18:52,151 --> 00:18:54,194
stood with confidence about this. And I was
528
00:18:54,393 --> 00:18:56,223
so excited. So excited that I pulled the
529
00:18:56,223 --> 00:18:58,211
curriculum. I saw them all like talking. I
530
00:18:58,211 --> 00:18:59,246
wrote to them. And I was, I actually
531
00:18:59,246 --> 00:19:00,757
need to know that y'all are amazing.
532
00:19:01,409 --> 00:19:03,567
Like, this is this is the most cohesive
533
00:19:03,567 --> 00:19:06,044
curriculum I have seen in a district.
534
00:19:06,763 --> 00:19:09,101
It's... I mean, writing is in every
535
00:19:09,893 --> 00:19:11,427
subject that alone
536
00:19:11,961 --> 00:19:13,950
demonstrates their knowledge of what works.
537
00:19:15,461 --> 00:19:16,893
And I was just... I mean, I was
538
00:19:16,893 --> 00:19:19,299
like, go ahead. Go. Ahead. No. No. You're
539
00:19:19,299 --> 00:19:20,180
fine. You're just thinking.
540
00:19:22,980 --> 00:19:24,019
It's rare, I know.
541
00:19:26,993 --> 00:19:27,973
You not just
542
00:19:28,511 --> 00:19:30,269
just letting you know where you left off,
543
00:19:30,509 --> 00:19:32,986
not necessarily enough. It's accusing you of not
544
00:19:32,986 --> 00:19:33,385
thinking.
545
00:19:34,435 --> 00:19:35,945
But what I was gonna say is that
546
00:19:35,945 --> 00:19:37,694
you are thinking we'll let you speak.
547
00:19:38,966 --> 00:19:41,565
It truthfully, it is it's
548
00:19:41,924 --> 00:19:44,741
when you see people like even that level
549
00:19:45,439 --> 00:19:46,818
that is so hard
550
00:19:47,516 --> 00:19:48,016
to
551
00:19:50,482 --> 00:19:54,065
get to with curriculum writers with districts, especially
552
00:19:54,065 --> 00:19:55,122
big districts
553
00:19:55,578 --> 00:19:57,113
to say we're gonna have writing
554
00:19:57,503 --> 00:19:59,352
in real writing. Right? Not just
555
00:19:59,724 --> 00:20:02,843
answer a question, but like, actual, like paragraphs,
556
00:20:03,771 --> 00:20:04,643
actual thinking,
557
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:05,619
actual
558
00:20:06,327 --> 00:20:07,683
like dissection of content,
559
00:20:08,799 --> 00:20:10,814
that to me demonstrates
560
00:20:12,148 --> 00:20:13,902
not only does it validate what you and
561
00:20:14,062 --> 00:20:16,483
I keep talking about even when we,
562
00:20:17,568 --> 00:20:18,068
address
563
00:20:18,519 --> 00:20:20,263
books like this 1 that we don't fully
564
00:20:20,263 --> 00:20:20,659
agree with.
565
00:20:22,499 --> 00:20:24,753
Is that sometimes it can feel very lonely
566
00:20:24,892 --> 00:20:26,168
with what we talk about. I think our
567
00:20:26,168 --> 00:20:27,763
audience. The reason why the people listen to
568
00:20:27,763 --> 00:20:29,757
us is because they feel lonely where they
569
00:20:29,757 --> 00:20:32,562
are. Right. People aren't talking about workshop. They're
570
00:20:32,562 --> 00:20:34,231
not talking about choice. They're not talking about
571
00:20:34,231 --> 00:20:36,059
any of these things. And you and I
572
00:20:36,059 --> 00:20:38,204
are sitting here validating and validating and invalid
573
00:20:38,204 --> 00:20:39,714
while the rest of the world is going,
574
00:20:41,559 --> 00:20:44,196
Let's let's narrow things. Let's make everything very
575
00:20:44,196 --> 00:20:47,872
standard. Let's use these computer programs. Let's let's
576
00:20:47,872 --> 00:20:50,190
really simplify curriculum. Let's do all of this.
577
00:20:50,430 --> 00:20:51,801
Let's takeaway choice,
578
00:20:53,157 --> 00:20:55,071
and it it can feel isolating even for
579
00:20:55,071 --> 00:20:56,826
me and Oc chill, sometimes we feel very
580
00:20:56,826 --> 00:20:59,298
isolated by the world. And then lo and
581
00:20:59,298 --> 00:21:00,415
behold, I end up in a district,
582
00:21:01,224 --> 00:21:03,523
that does all of this and has the
583
00:21:03,523 --> 00:21:04,950
success to show for you. And I gotta
584
00:21:04,950 --> 00:21:05,029
tell.
585
00:21:06,298 --> 00:21:08,225
I I feel very good
586
00:21:08,931 --> 00:21:11,160
about what we continuously talk about and where
587
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,389
I work, which is both very positive. So
588
00:21:13,389 --> 00:21:15,060
that that's what I wanted to say. So
589
00:21:15,060 --> 00:21:16,652
you you take it away and then what
590
00:21:16,652 --> 00:21:20,599
we'll pivot Well, what you mentioned rotting, and
591
00:21:20,740 --> 00:21:21,960
the thing is is this
592
00:21:22,259 --> 00:21:22,500
the,
593
00:21:23,460 --> 00:21:24,019
her book,
594
00:21:24,660 --> 00:21:26,579
I think I think that's 1 reason I
595
00:21:26,579 --> 00:21:28,593
was a little upset with it. After we
596
00:21:28,593 --> 00:21:30,029
got into it, and that was the fact
597
00:21:30,029 --> 00:21:31,545
that she just play kate's to writing. Oh,
598
00:21:31,704 --> 00:21:33,380
don't forget to ride, and then she just
599
00:21:33,380 --> 00:21:34,896
spends just a little bit of time.
600
00:21:35,946 --> 00:21:39,048
But writing is a very difficult thing to
601
00:21:39,048 --> 00:21:39,923
teach the students,
602
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:40,980
especially,
603
00:21:41,514 --> 00:21:43,522
you know, if if you really want them
604
00:21:43,522 --> 00:21:45,299
to think. Now you can teach formula,
605
00:21:45,757 --> 00:21:47,833
and you can tell them what to write
606
00:21:47,833 --> 00:21:49,749
first, what to write next and you can
607
00:21:49,749 --> 00:21:51,606
have a very formulaic paragraph,
608
00:21:52,638 --> 00:21:54,553
which is really... I think how I was
609
00:21:54,553 --> 00:21:54,872
taught.
610
00:21:55,511 --> 00:21:57,346
And then it wasn't until I got to
611
00:21:57,346 --> 00:21:58,783
college that I had to figure out how
612
00:21:58,783 --> 00:21:59,921
to write because
613
00:22:00,315 --> 00:22:02,714
it ours was all, like, very formula. I
614
00:22:02,714 --> 00:22:03,275
mean, we had...
615
00:22:03,914 --> 00:22:05,994
I, that's what we would do. And
616
00:22:06,714 --> 00:22:09,366
and so... But I I never really thought
617
00:22:09,366 --> 00:22:11,593
completely for myself. Does that make sense? I
618
00:22:11,593 --> 00:22:11,991
mean, it was...
619
00:22:12,787 --> 00:22:14,696
I... It... They didn't teach me how to
620
00:22:14,696 --> 00:22:16,845
critically think. Now III went to a very
621
00:22:16,845 --> 00:22:17,663
good school
622
00:22:19,255 --> 00:22:21,174
but now it's a great school. It's a
623
00:22:21,174 --> 00:22:22,934
back at school, but back then it wasn't.
624
00:22:23,095 --> 00:22:23,894
We didn't have all that.
625
00:22:24,775 --> 00:22:26,234
And so it was more just
626
00:22:26,709 --> 00:22:28,539
you know, let's do the basics. So... I
627
00:22:28,539 --> 00:22:29,971
mean, a I knew grammar because that's what
628
00:22:29,971 --> 00:22:31,244
we did a lot of. We just did
629
00:22:31,244 --> 00:22:32,995
grammar. I know how to diagram sentences.
630
00:22:33,552 --> 00:22:34,825
We did a lot of that. And then,
631
00:22:34,905 --> 00:22:37,070
oh, yeah. We got this the junior themed
632
00:22:37,070 --> 00:22:39,143
to write. And then I had never even
633
00:22:39,143 --> 00:22:40,817
been written on a a top writer. So
634
00:22:40,817 --> 00:22:41,694
now of a sudden we have to have
635
00:22:41,694 --> 00:22:44,086
it typed. Now we didn't have computers back
636
00:22:44,086 --> 00:22:45,451
then. But I didn't know how to use
637
00:22:45,451 --> 00:22:46,879
the top right. And don't forget you need
638
00:22:46,879 --> 00:22:48,013
to have in notes
639
00:22:49,496 --> 00:22:51,400
or no footnotes. We can do in. We
640
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:52,614
do footnotes will
641
00:22:52,923 --> 00:22:55,249
I can't even tie much less do footnotes.
642
00:22:56,099 --> 00:22:58,004
And the next year I took topping, but
643
00:22:58,163 --> 00:22:59,672
I hadn't taken it top in when I
644
00:22:59,672 --> 00:23:00,410
did my
645
00:23:00,799 --> 00:23:02,470
you know, my junior thing.
646
00:23:03,027 --> 00:23:04,801
So it was a it was very
647
00:23:06,529 --> 00:23:09,113
difficult. It was all about that techniques.
648
00:23:09,882 --> 00:23:11,150
I mean, when I say tech... The net
649
00:23:11,150 --> 00:23:13,950
technical part of writing, not necessarily
650
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,359
the thinking part of writing, and I think
651
00:23:16,559 --> 00:23:18,632
thinking part of writing is what's difficult for
652
00:23:18,632 --> 00:23:19,988
people to get down because it makes them
653
00:23:19,988 --> 00:23:20,727
so vulnerable.
654
00:23:21,981 --> 00:23:23,598
To to put your thoughts down
655
00:23:23,975 --> 00:23:25,511
and to have them judge
656
00:23:26,219 --> 00:23:28,915
beyond yourself is really difficult to do, but
657
00:23:28,915 --> 00:23:30,898
also it's something we crave because we wanna
658
00:23:30,898 --> 00:23:32,722
know if we're successful. We wanna know if
659
00:23:32,722 --> 00:23:33,277
we make sense.
660
00:23:34,167 --> 00:23:36,556
And so... But to to take that first
661
00:23:36,556 --> 00:23:37,056
step
662
00:23:38,388 --> 00:23:41,016
into it is it's very difficult, especially for
663
00:23:41,016 --> 00:23:41,972
for young writers.
664
00:23:42,624 --> 00:23:44,455
And new writers in and adults too, but
665
00:23:44,535 --> 00:23:45,809
I'm in, you know, like, when you're trying
666
00:23:45,809 --> 00:23:47,800
to teach them. So so I think I
667
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,552
was a little upset, you know, because to
668
00:23:49,552 --> 00:23:51,087
me, the knowledge gap
669
00:23:51,956 --> 00:23:53,309
the the idea of knowledge,
670
00:23:54,106 --> 00:23:56,574
the only way you you can... I mean,
671
00:23:56,813 --> 00:23:59,201
I really do believe you learn through writing.
672
00:23:59,933 --> 00:24:01,761
I think you learned from speaking. I think
673
00:24:01,761 --> 00:24:03,827
you learned from from reading, and I I
674
00:24:03,827 --> 00:24:06,371
definitely believe that you learned when you write
675
00:24:06,371 --> 00:24:08,858
it down. I do. So if
676
00:24:09,804 --> 00:24:11,894
I summarize the thing... If I have to
677
00:24:12,507 --> 00:24:14,177
do something for class, like, if I was...
678
00:24:14,336 --> 00:24:15,926
When I was taking my masters, I would
679
00:24:15,926 --> 00:24:16,426
summarize
680
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:17,993
everything that we read.
681
00:24:18,804 --> 00:24:20,565
And I would just... I would write it
682
00:24:20,565 --> 00:24:21,765
all out. This is what I know, and
683
00:24:21,845 --> 00:24:23,204
I'd put in a story. As a matter
684
00:24:23,204 --> 00:24:23,684
of fact,
685
00:24:24,244 --> 00:24:25,924
when we did our oral, and you had
686
00:24:25,924 --> 00:24:28,089
to be asked you could be asked anything
687
00:24:28,089 --> 00:24:30,634
orally on anything you did for the 2...
688
00:24:30,952 --> 00:24:32,804
The, I guess, 4 semesters
689
00:24:33,178 --> 00:24:33,894
that we were there.
690
00:24:35,579 --> 00:24:36,056
2 years.
691
00:24:36,772 --> 00:24:38,442
They could asked anything. And
692
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,011
I actually put it all in a story
693
00:24:41,719 --> 00:24:44,271
So wind in my head. So when they
694
00:24:44,271 --> 00:24:45,308
would ask me a question,
695
00:24:45,866 --> 00:24:47,461
I would give them a little history because
696
00:24:47,461 --> 00:24:48,657
that's how I I knew how to get
697
00:24:48,657 --> 00:24:50,332
into. I give a little history of why
698
00:24:50,332 --> 00:24:52,491
that thinking was there, and then I would
699
00:24:52,491 --> 00:24:55,368
that would leave me right into the actual
700
00:24:55,819 --> 00:24:57,799
process of whatever thinking they were asking me
701
00:24:57,799 --> 00:25:00,119
to do. And so because I was able
702
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:01,313
to put it in into story,
703
00:25:02,188 --> 00:25:03,938
when we finished, 1 of the comments that
704
00:25:03,938 --> 00:25:05,767
they made in and my feedback was, we
705
00:25:05,767 --> 00:25:08,325
have never heard anybody have. Such detail when
706
00:25:08,325 --> 00:25:08,825
they
707
00:25:09,357 --> 00:25:09,913
when that, you know,
708
00:25:10,706 --> 00:25:11,500
it just flowed.
709
00:25:12,056 --> 00:25:14,302
And then my actual professor said
710
00:25:15,008 --> 00:25:15,484
this
711
00:25:15,961 --> 00:25:16,461
oral
712
00:25:17,233 --> 00:25:20,094
is the best... That's your best thing that
713
00:25:20,094 --> 00:25:22,081
or, you know, the the oral medium,
714
00:25:22,493 --> 00:25:25,188
of learning. Well, actually, what she doesn't know
715
00:25:25,188 --> 00:25:27,566
is I said over here and summarize it
716
00:25:27,566 --> 00:25:29,492
all and actually wrote it all down
717
00:25:30,039 --> 00:25:32,271
so that I could speak. I couldn't speak
718
00:25:32,271 --> 00:25:34,423
in unless I wrote it all down. Because
719
00:25:34,583 --> 00:25:36,496
I had to internalize it, and it's through
720
00:25:36,496 --> 00:25:38,272
writing that you internalize that knowledge
721
00:25:38,584 --> 00:25:40,339
And for her to just for
722
00:25:40,977 --> 00:25:43,848
We to just kind of pla it and
723
00:25:43,848 --> 00:25:46,241
only give it like I mentioned, I think
724
00:25:46,241 --> 00:25:47,220
is is
725
00:25:49,603 --> 00:25:52,468
a poor use of writing about the knowledge
726
00:25:52,468 --> 00:25:53,662
gap to be honest, and I don't know
727
00:25:53,662 --> 00:25:55,254
if Even said that correctly, but that's my
728
00:25:55,254 --> 00:25:55,891
thinking on it.
729
00:25:56,701 --> 00:25:57,098
No. I...
730
00:25:58,053 --> 00:25:59,961
Truthfully, if we're... If we're just talking about
731
00:25:59,961 --> 00:26:02,188
the book purely, it, it comes down to
732
00:26:02,188 --> 00:26:04,017
my biggest criticism is A lack of writing
733
00:26:04,017 --> 00:26:04,256
in it.
734
00:26:05,466 --> 00:26:07,540
And it's it's true across the board Writing
735
00:26:07,540 --> 00:26:09,693
is you and I see it. Our writing
736
00:26:09,693 --> 00:26:10,331
podcast podcasts,
737
00:26:11,288 --> 00:26:13,441
get less downloads, both on Craft draft and
738
00:26:13,441 --> 00:26:14,491
teach team. Sure. Mh.
739
00:26:15,999 --> 00:26:18,699
Everyone's focused on reading. Everyone's always been focused
740
00:26:18,699 --> 00:26:19,255
on reading.
741
00:26:20,526 --> 00:26:21,637
That mean it shouldn't be.
742
00:26:22,288 --> 00:26:24,278
But reading and writing are 2 sides of
743
00:26:24,278 --> 00:26:26,029
the same coin. They're they're... They they give
744
00:26:26,029 --> 00:26:27,382
you the answer. And I'll give you another
745
00:26:27,382 --> 00:26:29,292
example just talk about my new district to
746
00:26:29,292 --> 00:26:32,102
give. Is in that curriculum training, they said,
747
00:26:33,540 --> 00:26:35,537
oftentimes, if you're just giving multiple choice or
748
00:26:35,537 --> 00:26:37,375
easy to answer questions to kids.
749
00:26:37,949 --> 00:26:40,580
You think their understanding concepts deeper than what
750
00:26:40,580 --> 00:26:41,080
you
751
00:26:41,537 --> 00:26:43,211
than what they are And the way you
752
00:26:43,211 --> 00:26:45,444
realize that, did you hand them something you
753
00:26:45,444 --> 00:26:46,401
say right about this,
754
00:26:47,692 --> 00:26:49,924
and they can't. And so you can die...
755
00:26:50,084 --> 00:26:51,838
And they said this. They said you can
756
00:26:51,838 --> 00:26:54,788
diagnose gaps by reading student writing, and I
757
00:26:54,788 --> 00:26:55,288
went
758
00:26:56,237 --> 00:26:57,213
I'm so
759
00:26:58,382 --> 00:27:00,846
exactly that people are saying this because it's
760
00:27:00,846 --> 00:27:04,604
1000 percent true. It is the differentiator between
761
00:27:05,154 --> 00:27:06,054
what creates
762
00:27:06,672 --> 00:27:09,549
3000000 copies sold by just 2007.
763
00:27:11,387 --> 00:27:13,065
Despite this clear commercial success however,
764
00:27:13,639 --> 00:27:16,034
Oblivion would receive criticism have some in Iran
765
00:27:16,034 --> 00:27:17,471
he guns for change it.
766
00:27:18,509 --> 00:27:19,147
You what?
767
00:27:20,345 --> 00:27:22,875
The people are gonna hear that. I have
768
00:27:22,994 --> 00:27:25,966
had random audio. Just started my computer.
769
00:27:26,821 --> 00:27:28,336
You couldn't hear a Joe, but I couldn't.
770
00:27:28,415 --> 00:27:28,894
And it was...
771
00:27:29,532 --> 00:27:31,126
I don't no. I knew what that was.
772
00:27:31,605 --> 00:27:33,290
I And it was a video. It sounded
773
00:27:33,290 --> 00:27:35,039
very studio. It might have been something I
774
00:27:35,039 --> 00:27:37,664
was learning. I don't remember. But regardless, it...
775
00:27:39,254 --> 00:27:39,811
That was funny.
776
00:27:40,704 --> 00:27:42,562
What else could go wrong today honestly.
777
00:27:43,579 --> 00:27:43,819
No.
778
00:27:44,538 --> 00:27:46,535
What's not question. I know.
779
00:27:48,460 --> 00:27:48,960
I
780
00:27:50,130 --> 00:27:53,945
the... That writing component where writing is is
781
00:27:53,945 --> 00:27:55,773
viewed correctly as thinking.
782
00:27:56,503 --> 00:27:58,094
I think is it's such a a key
783
00:27:58,094 --> 00:27:59,367
point. It's the thing that fires me up
784
00:27:59,367 --> 00:28:01,276
the most, and that's why Rifle powered exists.
785
00:28:01,515 --> 00:28:03,678
And it's why I've been thinking about acting,
786
00:28:03,757 --> 00:28:06,144
like, a new version of this argument because
787
00:28:06,144 --> 00:28:08,610
clearly, rifle empowered didn't connect the way I
788
00:28:08,610 --> 00:28:10,599
wanted it to. And and that's disappointing, but
789
00:28:10,599 --> 00:28:11,872
it's also it's a learning experience for me.
790
00:28:11,952 --> 00:28:14,591
This that that that's on me for not
791
00:28:15,307 --> 00:28:16,898
pushing into the way needed to in order
792
00:28:16,898 --> 00:28:18,965
to to reach as many people. But the
793
00:28:18,965 --> 00:28:21,128
the thing that I keep trying to and
794
00:28:21,288 --> 00:28:22,405
I keep putting it out there, and I
795
00:28:22,405 --> 00:28:23,681
keep trying to award it in different ways,
796
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:25,515
so it connects to a lot of people
797
00:28:25,515 --> 00:28:25,755
which is...
798
00:28:26,951 --> 00:28:28,227
It this is something you and I discover...
799
00:28:28,387 --> 00:28:30,061
Oh well, we already discover it together, but
800
00:28:30,061 --> 00:28:31,993
we kind of discover AAA
801
00:28:31,993 --> 00:28:35,050
comm of ideas with this concept, which was
802
00:28:36,229 --> 00:28:39,905
writing in schools has become so limited. We
803
00:28:39,905 --> 00:28:40,405
write
804
00:28:40,719 --> 00:28:44,409
to respond to explain. We write to
805
00:28:45,424 --> 00:28:48,216
answer questions, the vast majority. Honestly, the most
806
00:28:48,216 --> 00:28:49,992
writing kids are doing is summarizing.
807
00:28:50,864 --> 00:28:53,179
Which that's fine, and that's a skill set,
808
00:28:53,338 --> 00:28:54,317
but it's not
809
00:28:55,095 --> 00:28:57,968
that essential. Like it is to a degree,
810
00:28:58,128 --> 00:29:00,695
but really what's essential. As a writer being
811
00:29:00,695 --> 00:29:01,490
able to create,
812
00:29:02,047 --> 00:29:02,923
being able to,
813
00:29:04,275 --> 00:29:05,571
petition, being able to
814
00:29:05,946 --> 00:29:08,913
criticize being able to advocate being able to
815
00:29:10,023 --> 00:29:12,420
a bunch of information and give that information
816
00:29:12,420 --> 00:29:14,417
to someone who may not have the... Like,
817
00:29:14,577 --> 00:29:15,855
you may have a boss day says, hey.
818
00:29:16,015 --> 00:29:17,710
I need you to to look at all
819
00:29:17,710 --> 00:29:19,549
this and then write me a report about
820
00:29:19,549 --> 00:29:21,490
it. Like... You need to s
821
00:29:21,869 --> 00:29:24,130
something complex to someone that
822
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,346
maybe not be an expert, but they're the
823
00:29:26,346 --> 00:29:27,401
ones in charge
824
00:29:28,328 --> 00:29:30,945
of making the decisions around something. You know,
825
00:29:31,104 --> 00:29:32,000
I was just watching
826
00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:34,533
speaking previous presidents.
827
00:29:35,009 --> 00:29:37,313
I was watching above, it was a real,
828
00:29:38,028 --> 00:29:39,220
and it was it was a real of
829
00:29:39,378 --> 00:29:40,808
Obama, and it was really cool. It was...
830
00:29:41,047 --> 00:29:41,603
He said,
831
00:29:42,334 --> 00:29:44,432
1 of the things that he valued
832
00:29:44,971 --> 00:29:46,670
as a leader was
833
00:29:47,448 --> 00:29:49,766
people that would just, like, whatever role they
834
00:29:49,766 --> 00:29:50,425
were given
835
00:29:50,819 --> 00:29:53,557
they didn't complain the anything? Like, okay, what
836
00:29:53,776 --> 00:29:54,895
what do you need? What do I need
837
00:29:54,895 --> 00:29:56,733
to do? And they took that and they
838
00:29:56,733 --> 00:29:58,891
rolled with it? And his advice was if
839
00:29:58,891 --> 00:29:59,530
in life,
840
00:30:00,022 --> 00:30:01,293
you're being given something.
841
00:30:02,007 --> 00:30:03,913
If you accept whatever...
842
00:30:04,468 --> 00:30:06,850
Who whoever your boss is, whoever's is del
843
00:30:06,850 --> 00:30:09,247
something to you. If you do that, to
844
00:30:09,247 --> 00:30:11,231
the to the best level that you can
845
00:30:11,231 --> 00:30:12,740
and then ask how you can do more
846
00:30:12,740 --> 00:30:13,772
or how you can do it better or
847
00:30:13,772 --> 00:30:14,090
whatever,
848
00:30:14,645 --> 00:30:16,710
you're already setting yourself up to be so
849
00:30:16,710 --> 00:30:17,742
much more advanced.
850
00:30:18,233 --> 00:30:20,223
Than the vast majority of people who wanna
851
00:30:20,223 --> 00:30:22,451
complain. Or they just wanna be given the
852
00:30:22,451 --> 00:30:24,440
big task. They wanna be given the big
853
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:24,940
responsibility
854
00:30:25,967 --> 00:30:28,193
But truthfully, the way you get those is
855
00:30:28,193 --> 00:30:30,498
you bust your butt at even the smallest
856
00:30:30,498 --> 00:30:32,008
thing. It's like, man, I was given this,
857
00:30:32,167 --> 00:30:33,519
and I feel like I feel like my
858
00:30:33,519 --> 00:30:35,524
skills are more. Okay Well, guess what if
859
00:30:35,524 --> 00:30:37,042
your skills are more then you should dominate
860
00:30:37,042 --> 00:30:38,241
the task that they gave you.
861
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,718
And if you're working for good leaders, they'll
862
00:30:40,718 --> 00:30:42,157
be able to elevate you. And I feel
863
00:30:42,157 --> 00:30:43,855
like that is the same thing with
864
00:30:44,408 --> 00:30:46,500
that's what we're trying to steal in students
865
00:30:46,637 --> 00:30:48,809
with their writing is their ability
866
00:30:49,184 --> 00:30:50,401
because they may have
867
00:30:50,856 --> 00:30:51,674
the acumen
868
00:30:52,545 --> 00:30:53,525
to do
869
00:30:54,144 --> 00:30:54,644
what
870
00:30:55,585 --> 00:30:57,424
they're being tested. It may be such a
871
00:30:57,424 --> 00:30:59,664
a men task when they're in the workforce
872
00:30:59,664 --> 00:31:00,065
or whatever.
873
00:31:00,637 --> 00:31:02,307
But if they can't advocate for themselves that
874
00:31:02,307 --> 00:31:02,966
they can't
875
00:31:03,340 --> 00:31:04,953
communicate correctly if they can't write
876
00:31:05,327 --> 00:31:07,712
a persuasive email. If they can't,
877
00:31:09,084 --> 00:31:12,680
draft a resume that's enticing. They can't see
878
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,758
what other people do and do something slightly
879
00:31:14,758 --> 00:31:17,655
different to differentiate themselves. If they can't
880
00:31:19,794 --> 00:31:23,544
just use, like, translate what's their their complex
881
00:31:23,599 --> 00:31:26,652
mind with all their emotions and and feelings
882
00:31:26,708 --> 00:31:28,852
and traumas and successes and everything else.
883
00:31:30,122 --> 00:31:32,766
They they automatically get diminished
884
00:31:33,140 --> 00:31:34,910
in their market ability
885
00:31:35,460 --> 00:31:36,500
in the workforce.
886
00:31:37,460 --> 00:31:39,860
And, yet, we don't really address that. We
887
00:31:39,860 --> 00:31:41,460
say, you need to be able to ride
888
00:31:41,460 --> 00:31:43,554
to this prompt. You're able to answer this
889
00:31:43,554 --> 00:31:44,434
way. You need to be able to do
890
00:31:44,434 --> 00:31:46,514
that. And that's... Unfortunately, it's what the knowledge
891
00:31:46,595 --> 00:31:49,494
Gap really talks about is limiting kids knowledge
892
00:31:49,554 --> 00:31:51,394
and what they're being taught so much that
893
00:31:51,394 --> 00:31:51,849
kids
894
00:31:52,207 --> 00:31:54,273
Yeah. Sure. They can perform really well at
895
00:31:54,273 --> 00:31:55,702
what you're telling them to do.
896
00:31:57,291 --> 00:31:57,791
But,
897
00:31:58,165 --> 00:31:58,483
you know,
898
00:32:00,482 --> 00:32:02,862
I I'm of the mind that what I'm
899
00:32:02,862 --> 00:32:04,607
telling them to do, like, if I pick
900
00:32:04,607 --> 00:32:05,480
a topic and something,
901
00:32:07,482 --> 00:32:09,631
yeah. I have more education. I have more
902
00:32:09,631 --> 00:32:11,382
degrees. I've been alive longer than them.
903
00:32:12,257 --> 00:32:13,690
But why is what I want them to
904
00:32:13,690 --> 00:32:14,963
write about and how I want them to
905
00:32:14,963 --> 00:32:15,463
write
906
00:32:15,774 --> 00:32:16,274
necessarily
907
00:32:17,046 --> 00:32:17,444
better.
908
00:32:17,921 --> 00:32:21,340
There's convention sure, and there's things to teach
909
00:32:21,340 --> 00:32:23,408
100 percent and their standards to hold by.
910
00:32:24,459 --> 00:32:26,137
But you can do all of that and
911
00:32:26,137 --> 00:32:27,416
have them right about whatever they want, have
912
00:32:27,416 --> 00:32:29,814
them right about whatever topic they want. But
913
00:32:29,894 --> 00:32:31,652
I feel like we have this...
914
00:32:33,170 --> 00:32:33,410
Sorry.
915
00:32:34,303 --> 00:32:35,496
I think we have this mentality,
916
00:32:36,531 --> 00:32:38,839
that I've... And I believe this even more
917
00:32:38,839 --> 00:32:40,612
after reading the knowledge gap where
918
00:32:41,624 --> 00:32:42,124
we
919
00:32:44,186 --> 00:32:46,811
feet... It's almost like an arrogance of the
920
00:32:46,811 --> 00:32:49,038
adult. And I think that's why kids get,
921
00:32:49,118 --> 00:32:52,355
like, d and and disconnected from education where
922
00:32:52,474 --> 00:32:53,914
Of course, we're smarter. Of course, we have
923
00:32:53,914 --> 00:32:55,994
more education. Of course, we have more experiences,
924
00:32:56,794 --> 00:32:58,075
but no learner,
925
00:32:58,634 --> 00:33:00,474
especially no learner who really wanted to say
926
00:33:00,474 --> 00:33:02,806
something went man. I really just wanna do
927
00:33:02,806 --> 00:33:04,322
what the adults did before me.
928
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,833
Like, they they just don't do that. They're...
929
00:33:08,073 --> 00:33:09,764
Like, you what I mean? They wanna forge
930
00:33:09,764 --> 00:33:11,922
their own path. They wanna find new ideas.
931
00:33:12,162 --> 00:33:14,719
They wanna explore their own explore. And to
932
00:33:14,719 --> 00:33:15,118
me,
933
00:33:16,397 --> 00:33:19,009
I think that's what educators should do is
934
00:33:19,209 --> 00:33:21,124
we should teach the fundamentals and then let
935
00:33:21,124 --> 00:33:23,518
them go. And that's what Workshop does. But
936
00:33:23,678 --> 00:33:25,274
I feel like the knowledge gap is advocating
937
00:33:25,274 --> 00:33:26,950
for something different than I feel like it
938
00:33:26,950 --> 00:33:28,801
feel safe. I feel like it feels like
939
00:33:28,801 --> 00:33:29,759
we're in control,
940
00:33:30,397 --> 00:33:33,430
But I don't think it's going to produce
941
00:33:33,430 --> 00:33:36,795
more in diverse learners. Honestly a. I think
942
00:33:36,795 --> 00:33:39,500
if we followed Natalie We advice all the
943
00:33:39,500 --> 00:33:41,353
way to the end of really if you
944
00:33:41,410 --> 00:33:43,240
extrapolate it to the end. I think what
945
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:44,695
will end up is a very
946
00:33:45,563 --> 00:33:46,063
limited
947
00:33:46,759 --> 00:33:47,657
and very
948
00:33:48,034 --> 00:33:48,534
shallow
949
00:33:49,628 --> 00:33:51,143
education for kids, and I think you'll just
950
00:33:51,143 --> 00:33:53,056
have more and more kids get disconnected.
951
00:33:54,107 --> 00:33:56,818
From what we're trying to do in public
952
00:33:56,818 --> 00:33:59,289
schools, and and I don't know. That... That's
953
00:33:59,289 --> 00:34:01,362
that's where, honestly, I think about a lot
954
00:34:01,362 --> 00:34:03,131
of this is If you take it if
955
00:34:03,131 --> 00:34:05,067
if you take her rationality to the very
956
00:34:05,206 --> 00:34:05,445
point,
957
00:34:06,083 --> 00:34:07,200
I think we're in a worse spot.
958
00:34:09,529 --> 00:34:11,282
Well, I think so because, I mean, well,
959
00:34:11,521 --> 00:34:12,796
I'm just gonna go back to my own
960
00:34:12,796 --> 00:34:13,933
experiences because
961
00:34:14,309 --> 00:34:15,425
I, you know, I went to school in
962
00:34:15,425 --> 00:34:16,062
the seventies.
963
00:34:16,953 --> 00:34:19,648
And finished in 83, and I'm talking about
964
00:34:19,648 --> 00:34:21,392
public schools. I'm not talking I'm my college.
965
00:34:22,106 --> 00:34:23,691
And, during that time,
966
00:34:24,738 --> 00:34:26,730
they did not encourage reading.
967
00:34:27,208 --> 00:34:28,243
It was not encouraged.
968
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,190
We... What I mean by that is, we
969
00:34:31,190 --> 00:34:32,009
did read
970
00:34:33,991 --> 00:34:35,893
Dick and Jane. I remember that. We did
971
00:34:35,893 --> 00:34:38,849
read... I mean, I think in in in
972
00:34:39,220 --> 00:34:42,176
elementary in the 6 great. I think we
973
00:34:42,176 --> 00:34:43,553
finally went to the library.
974
00:34:44,489 --> 00:34:46,244
And I didn't even know how to find
975
00:34:46,244 --> 00:34:48,317
a book. I had a little house on
976
00:34:48,317 --> 00:34:51,123
the prairie was you know, in the on
977
00:34:51,283 --> 00:34:51,682
Tv,
978
00:34:52,240 --> 00:34:54,393
and I saw that, you know, and so
979
00:34:54,393 --> 00:34:56,626
that's the book I picked. And then I
980
00:34:56,626 --> 00:34:58,699
had seen Willy Walk in the chocolate factory.
981
00:34:58,938 --> 00:35:01,585
So I had picked the glass elevator book
982
00:35:01,585 --> 00:35:03,340
because they had that... Those are only 2
983
00:35:03,340 --> 00:35:05,435
books. I remember checking out from the library
984
00:35:06,132 --> 00:35:08,285
when I was in elementary. We did not
985
00:35:08,285 --> 00:35:10,454
have classroom libraries. You couldn't get up and
986
00:35:10,454 --> 00:35:10,954
walk
987
00:35:11,494 --> 00:35:13,594
to a shelf and
988
00:35:13,894 --> 00:35:15,255
choose a book and read it.
989
00:35:16,135 --> 00:35:18,775
If we were to read now... Now, Karen,
990
00:35:21,347 --> 00:35:22,785
she's my cousin and my sister,
991
00:35:23,904 --> 00:35:26,061
because she... We she and I were raised
992
00:35:26,061 --> 00:35:27,041
together. And
993
00:35:27,673 --> 00:35:29,450
she's an avid reader, but
994
00:35:30,067 --> 00:35:30,567
somehow,
995
00:35:31,343 --> 00:35:32,300
when she was younger,
996
00:35:32,858 --> 00:35:35,331
she went... I think I think my grandma
997
00:35:35,331 --> 00:35:37,380
took her to the public library, and
998
00:35:37,900 --> 00:35:39,900
So she fell in love with books, and
999
00:35:39,900 --> 00:35:42,219
it was away for her front... To escape
1000
00:35:42,219 --> 00:35:44,779
from her situation, and then my mother took
1001
00:35:44,779 --> 00:35:45,359
her in
1002
00:35:45,753 --> 00:35:47,581
and we raised, you know, my mom raised
1003
00:35:47,581 --> 00:35:50,284
her. And so from there, whatever situation was,
1004
00:35:50,523 --> 00:35:52,589
I don't wanna talk about it, but she
1005
00:35:52,589 --> 00:35:54,117
became a reader and I think it was
1006
00:35:54,117 --> 00:35:55,791
similar to maybe how you became a reader.
1007
00:35:56,030 --> 00:35:57,407
It was just a way to
1008
00:35:58,261 --> 00:36:00,174
escape and and then you fell in love
1009
00:36:00,174 --> 00:36:00,493
with it.
1010
00:36:01,942 --> 00:36:04,253
It was because of her that I a
1011
00:36:04,253 --> 00:36:06,107
reader really because
1012
00:36:06,961 --> 00:36:09,271
she brought that to my bedroom. Right? Because
1013
00:36:09,271 --> 00:36:11,357
we shared a room together. So she would
1014
00:36:11,357 --> 00:36:12,631
go and buy it get a book, and
1015
00:36:12,631 --> 00:36:14,543
she would get me a book, and and
1016
00:36:14,543 --> 00:36:16,215
she would dare me to try to beat
1017
00:36:16,215 --> 00:36:17,272
her, and
1018
00:36:17,728 --> 00:36:19,813
I was competitive enough to try it. You
1019
00:36:19,813 --> 00:36:21,246
know, and we would... She would get cross
1020
00:36:21,246 --> 00:36:23,339
her puzzles and we would sit down, and
1021
00:36:23,396 --> 00:36:24,829
she'd pull me out a page and we
1022
00:36:24,829 --> 00:36:26,501
would we would do that, and we would
1023
00:36:26,501 --> 00:36:28,829
do word fines and but just stuff we
1024
00:36:28,829 --> 00:36:30,909
would do. We didn't have your regular. I
1025
00:36:30,909 --> 00:36:32,190
mean, we had Tv. Yes,
1026
00:36:33,070 --> 00:36:35,230
but we had certain hours that we weren't
1027
00:36:35,230 --> 00:36:36,440
allowed to be on. You don't what I
1028
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:37,868
mean. And so... And it... We didn't have
1029
00:36:37,868 --> 00:36:40,566
phones. So that was our entertainment. And
1030
00:36:41,439 --> 00:36:43,740
but when it comes to school, I don't
1031
00:36:43,740 --> 00:36:44,240
recall
1032
00:36:44,709 --> 00:36:46,727
classroom libraries. I don't recall
1033
00:36:47,666 --> 00:36:48,166
knowing
1034
00:36:49,024 --> 00:36:51,181
being able to write stories. I don't I
1035
00:36:51,181 --> 00:36:53,111
don't think I did. I don't I knew
1036
00:36:53,111 --> 00:36:54,622
how to write. I knew how to answer
1037
00:36:54,622 --> 00:36:56,690
questions in the back of the book, and
1038
00:36:56,690 --> 00:36:58,838
the stories that we read were in the
1039
00:36:58,838 --> 00:36:59,236
textbook.
1040
00:36:59,729 --> 00:37:02,763
And it was a truly textbook driven world.
1041
00:37:03,242 --> 00:37:04,759
Nothing wrong with text. But there are some
1042
00:37:04,759 --> 00:37:07,255
great stories in there, but they're more like
1043
00:37:07,313 --> 00:37:08,670
excerpts from bigger stories.
1044
00:37:09,324 --> 00:37:11,077
Maybe helpful to get us to read, but
1045
00:37:11,077 --> 00:37:13,788
it wasn't encouraged. It was more like the
1046
00:37:13,788 --> 00:37:15,222
teacher told us what to think about it.
1047
00:37:15,701 --> 00:37:18,666
And, really truly, I could. I'm pretty good,
1048
00:37:18,905 --> 00:37:21,776
and you know, I am. Because remember when
1049
00:37:21,776 --> 00:37:24,329
we were doing star test and we were
1050
00:37:24,329 --> 00:37:25,047
in our office.
1051
00:37:25,605 --> 00:37:26,801
And you... And I'm, like,
1052
00:37:27,773 --> 00:37:29,523
you know, I don't even... You were... What
1053
00:37:29,523 --> 00:37:30,795
what was it? You were just giving me
1054
00:37:30,795 --> 00:37:33,023
the answers, and I could pretty... I'm not
1055
00:37:33,023 --> 00:37:34,136
the answers, but the choices.
1056
00:37:34,949 --> 00:37:35,190
And
1057
00:37:35,750 --> 00:37:37,349
just from the choice it's not even reading
1058
00:37:37,349 --> 00:37:38,550
it. I could tell you the right answers.
1059
00:37:38,710 --> 00:37:40,170
I don't know if you remember that
1060
00:37:42,004 --> 00:37:43,600
I didn't have to read it because I
1061
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,755
was able to pick up on those. That's
1062
00:37:45,755 --> 00:37:47,213
because I lived
1063
00:37:47,671 --> 00:37:50,145
on that type of of education.
1064
00:37:50,718 --> 00:37:52,548
I can I can hear a question and
1065
00:37:52,628 --> 00:37:54,059
I can figure out the right answer? I
1066
00:37:54,059 --> 00:37:55,730
don't even have to read the book sometimes.
1067
00:37:56,287 --> 00:37:57,481
To even figure out what the answer is
1068
00:37:57,481 --> 00:37:59,333
gonna be just because of patterns
1069
00:38:00,123 --> 00:38:02,754
that are tested on. And, I mean, I...
1070
00:38:02,993 --> 00:38:04,588
There's just certain things I can pick up
1071
00:38:04,588 --> 00:38:07,219
on that. So so I did not fall
1072
00:38:07,219 --> 00:38:08,756
in love with reading until
1073
00:38:09,068 --> 00:38:11,377
It it was from home. It wasn't necessarily
1074
00:38:11,377 --> 00:38:14,163
from school. So where... What I'm saying is,
1075
00:38:14,482 --> 00:38:16,074
I kinda think they wanna go back to
1076
00:38:16,074 --> 00:38:16,893
that where
1077
00:38:17,204 --> 00:38:19,042
we're only limited to the not, you know,
1078
00:38:19,282 --> 00:38:20,960
the knowledge that I was given.
1079
00:38:21,998 --> 00:38:23,516
Like, they might give me a topic, and
1080
00:38:23,597 --> 00:38:25,455
I would go research it. I remember
1081
00:38:26,005 --> 00:38:28,308
researching a science topic. I mean, I didn't
1082
00:38:28,308 --> 00:38:29,976
hate school. I loved it. I always loved
1083
00:38:29,976 --> 00:38:31,961
learning. It's not that we didn't learn, but
1084
00:38:31,961 --> 00:38:34,502
we only learned what they... What was available.
1085
00:38:35,152 --> 00:38:37,217
To the teacher to teach us to learn
1086
00:38:37,217 --> 00:38:39,123
about. Does that make sense? We didn't get
1087
00:38:39,123 --> 00:38:40,393
to really explore topics.
1088
00:38:41,822 --> 00:38:42,061
And,
1089
00:38:43,108 --> 00:38:45,886
When we did literature, we only wrote about
1090
00:38:45,886 --> 00:38:46,918
literary questions.
1091
00:38:47,632 --> 00:38:50,354
I don't recall writing about anything else, but
1092
00:38:51,061 --> 00:38:53,687
that kind of like that Ap literary analysis
1093
00:38:53,687 --> 00:38:55,835
paper or the book report. I think that's
1094
00:38:55,835 --> 00:38:56,789
all the writing I did.
1095
00:38:58,235 --> 00:38:59,742
So I think that's what they wanna go
1096
00:38:59,742 --> 00:39:01,011
back to. And you know why I think
1097
00:39:01,011 --> 00:39:02,280
it is, and I'll let you talk. I'm
1098
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,184
sorry. But I think it's because I think
1099
00:39:04,184 --> 00:39:06,903
it's clean. It's clean. It's not clean for
1100
00:39:06,903 --> 00:39:09,241
the kid, but it's... It is clean
1101
00:39:09,860 --> 00:39:12,177
because they'll know exactly what's being turned in.
1102
00:39:12,577 --> 00:39:14,255
There's no ambiguity.
1103
00:39:14,907 --> 00:39:16,734
There's a right and a wrong answer, and
1104
00:39:16,893 --> 00:39:18,322
I'm sorry, but life,
1105
00:39:19,276 --> 00:39:20,467
books and writing,
1106
00:39:21,182 --> 00:39:23,183
true authentic writing, and all of that of
1107
00:39:23,183 --> 00:39:24,955
stuff does not give us
1108
00:39:25,886 --> 00:39:26,386
and
1109
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:27,238
non...
1110
00:39:27,794 --> 00:39:28,828
I don't even know how to say it,
1111
00:39:28,987 --> 00:39:29,646
but a
1112
00:39:30,100 --> 00:39:33,138
a vague answer. It... We need you you
1113
00:39:33,138 --> 00:39:34,733
know. And so I think I think it's
1114
00:39:34,733 --> 00:39:35,052
easier.
1115
00:39:35,690 --> 00:39:37,364
I think it's easier to walk in as
1116
00:39:37,364 --> 00:39:39,118
a leader. I could be wrong. I'm not
1117
00:39:39,118 --> 00:39:40,713
been a leader other than a bit of
1118
00:39:40,713 --> 00:39:42,640
teacher, but I'm at principal like, where you're
1119
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,870
at where you have to actually determine whether
1120
00:39:44,870 --> 00:39:46,941
or not they're gonna stay in your school
1121
00:39:46,941 --> 00:39:49,171
or not based on what they're doing. I
1122
00:39:49,171 --> 00:39:50,547
have never done that. But
1123
00:39:51,338 --> 00:39:53,570
but it's easy to grade. Is it not
1124
00:39:53,570 --> 00:39:56,522
when they're doing exactly what's written down. Well
1125
00:39:56,522 --> 00:39:59,393
up, They didn't do their grammar today. I
1126
00:39:59,393 --> 00:40:01,242
didn't see that today check off. You know,
1127
00:40:01,401 --> 00:40:02,834
I don't know really what you're looking at.
1128
00:40:02,994 --> 00:40:04,586
But... Yeah. I think you get the idea.
1129
00:40:04,826 --> 00:40:07,533
I think it's just cleaner for them easier,
1130
00:40:07,772 --> 00:40:09,046
and they can pass the test.
1131
00:40:09,778 --> 00:40:10,257
And
1132
00:40:10,974 --> 00:40:12,169
they can make money off of it. And
1133
00:40:12,248 --> 00:40:14,502
I think that's that's what I think. And
1134
00:40:14,559 --> 00:40:16,552
and I think it's sad because teaching is
1135
00:40:16,552 --> 00:40:16,791
fun,
1136
00:40:17,603 --> 00:40:19,836
learning is fun, and I love it when
1137
00:40:19,836 --> 00:40:22,149
the Light bulb goes off for a student,
1138
00:40:22,309 --> 00:40:23,664
and they they come to me and, like,
1139
00:40:23,904 --> 00:40:25,659
miss C, I am now a reader. Miss
1140
00:40:25,739 --> 00:40:26,935
C, I wanna be a writer.
1141
00:40:27,586 --> 00:40:29,097
I wanna get, you know, at, look what
1142
00:40:29,255 --> 00:40:30,686
I've written today, You know, that kind of
1143
00:40:30,686 --> 00:40:33,231
stuff is... That's fun. That's magical. That's what
1144
00:40:33,231 --> 00:40:33,731
makes
1145
00:40:34,105 --> 00:40:36,594
teaching worthwhile. And and I did enjoy my
1146
00:40:36,594 --> 00:40:37,394
my years of teaching.
1147
00:40:41,394 --> 00:40:42,775
You're right. I
1148
00:40:43,729 --> 00:40:45,164
you know, 1 of the things that I
1149
00:40:45,164 --> 00:40:47,100
thought was really interesting was
1150
00:40:49,312 --> 00:40:50,849
this... It's it's a
1151
00:40:51,785 --> 00:40:52,742
Natalie w.
1152
00:40:54,031 --> 00:40:54,745
In this book.
1153
00:40:58,081 --> 00:40:59,296
It really does
1154
00:41:00,782 --> 00:41:03,029
har back to... It's almost like it's
1155
00:41:03,819 --> 00:41:05,579
what do you mean? You're not telling kids
1156
00:41:05,579 --> 00:41:07,900
what they should learn? Like, that's that's really
1157
00:41:07,900 --> 00:41:09,420
what she's advocating for.
1158
00:41:10,634 --> 00:41:12,066
And I think that's interesting. I think that's
1159
00:41:12,066 --> 00:41:14,237
worth a debate I suppose. But
1160
00:41:14,852 --> 00:41:17,319
we've never said you're not teaching. That's the
1161
00:41:17,319 --> 00:41:19,627
thing, like, her straw man workshop is.
1162
00:41:20,438 --> 00:41:22,831
That she's like, oh, they do a mini
1163
00:41:22,831 --> 00:41:24,666
lesson with quotes around it or whatever. It's
1164
00:41:24,666 --> 00:41:25,862
like, you can do a lot in the
1165
00:41:25,862 --> 00:41:28,096
mini lesson. Do I you only need the
1166
00:41:28,096 --> 00:41:29,371
lecture of 50 minutes.
1167
00:41:30,659 --> 00:41:32,564
And anyone that thanks for election 50 minutes
1168
00:41:32,564 --> 00:41:34,706
and kids are listening, you're wrong. Like it's...
1169
00:41:35,261 --> 00:41:35,975
It's not...
1170
00:41:36,848 --> 00:41:38,062
It it now
1171
00:41:38,688 --> 00:41:40,355
and to sit there and say, well kids
1172
00:41:40,355 --> 00:41:42,339
should... Like, I I watched a video today
1173
00:41:42,339 --> 00:41:43,371
or to a today.
1174
00:41:43,927 --> 00:41:45,911
You, a teacher that went on Instagram and
1175
00:41:45,911 --> 00:41:46,943
made this real.
1176
00:41:47,913 --> 00:41:48,413
Video
1177
00:41:49,031 --> 00:41:49,531
of
1178
00:41:50,547 --> 00:41:52,702
she was saying when did it become the...
1179
00:41:53,101 --> 00:41:54,777
When did it become normal for teachers to
1180
00:41:54,777 --> 00:41:55,735
be entertainer?
1181
00:41:56,228 --> 00:41:58,296
And I was like, again, that is that
1182
00:41:58,296 --> 00:41:59,353
is a mis.
1183
00:41:59,887 --> 00:42:01,238
Because she was talking about engagement. She was
1184
00:42:01,238 --> 00:42:03,147
like, when I was in school, it was
1185
00:42:03,147 --> 00:42:05,232
our job to be engaged. I'm like, yeah.
1186
00:42:05,471 --> 00:42:07,146
But when you were in school kids could
1187
00:42:07,146 --> 00:42:08,523
drop out and go
1188
00:42:08,900 --> 00:42:10,734
get a job and have a middle class
1189
00:42:10,734 --> 00:42:12,249
life and be just fine.
1190
00:42:14,018 --> 00:42:16,093
And that can still happen to a degree,
1191
00:42:16,253 --> 00:42:17,471
but not really.
1192
00:42:18,327 --> 00:42:19,364
When's was the last time you met a
1193
00:42:19,364 --> 00:42:21,120
high school dropout that was successful.
1194
00:42:21,533 --> 00:42:23,598
That's not like, 1 of the the the
1195
00:42:23,678 --> 00:42:25,664
Random, like a, like, a, like, a Jeff
1196
00:42:25,664 --> 00:42:26,617
bezos or whatever.
1197
00:42:27,253 --> 00:42:28,524
Like, you're... I don't use a high school
1198
00:42:28,524 --> 00:42:29,477
dropout. But, anyway,
1199
00:42:30,684 --> 00:42:33,149
Like, here... It's it's... It doesn't happen anymore.
1200
00:42:33,307 --> 00:42:35,454
And there the car... I just read the
1201
00:42:35,454 --> 00:42:37,735
comments. Right? I never just like, yes. If
1202
00:42:37,854 --> 00:42:39,211
course. Blah blah blah. There was there were
1203
00:42:39,211 --> 00:42:40,487
some people that were like, us, It was
1204
00:42:40,487 --> 00:42:42,004
tons of people like, it's on the kids.
1205
00:42:42,243 --> 00:42:43,360
It's on the kids. On the kids. And
1206
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:43,680
I'm like,
1207
00:42:45,515 --> 00:42:48,945
my we... It... There is this level of
1208
00:42:48,945 --> 00:42:50,693
debate that's happening education right now.
1209
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,005
That almost seems like It's like, teachers are
1210
00:42:55,005 --> 00:42:57,824
burnt out and they're tired and they're miserable
1211
00:42:57,965 --> 00:42:59,724
and they're being asked to do a kinds
1212
00:42:59,724 --> 00:43:00,045
of stuff.
1213
00:43:00,844 --> 00:43:02,458
And so it's making of teacher's go well,
1214
00:43:02,537 --> 00:43:03,494
it's on the kids it's on the kids
1215
00:43:03,494 --> 00:43:05,488
on the kids. No. You're burnt out because
1216
00:43:05,488 --> 00:43:07,663
of bad decisions made by
1217
00:43:08,679 --> 00:43:11,231
politicians and by bad admin. That's why you're
1218
00:43:11,231 --> 00:43:11,630
burnt out.
1219
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,750
You're not burnt out because kids need to
1220
00:43:14,750 --> 00:43:16,739
be entertained. Kids have always needed to be
1221
00:43:16,739 --> 00:43:18,809
entertained. There's a reason why there's a there's
1222
00:43:18,809 --> 00:43:19,309
literally
1223
00:43:20,019 --> 00:43:21,958
a zeitgeist to people that can go...
1224
00:43:23,216 --> 00:43:25,533
And we all know what that's making fun
1225
00:43:25,533 --> 00:43:28,945
of. We all understand the concept of what
1226
00:43:29,064 --> 00:43:30,978
be... Let's see when there? When did that
1227
00:43:30,978 --> 00:43:33,132
movie come out? Oh, my god. Let me
1228
00:43:33,212 --> 00:43:33,371
Google.
1229
00:43:34,169 --> 00:43:34,669
Eighties.
1230
00:43:35,286 --> 00:43:36,083
Yeah. For sure.
1231
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:38,577
What did I just describe?
1232
00:43:39,446 --> 00:43:40,957
It came out in 86.
1233
00:43:41,672 --> 00:43:43,342
See. And what did I just describe up?
1234
00:43:43,581 --> 00:43:43,899
Yeah.
1235
00:43:44,694 --> 00:43:45,432
Well, that...
1236
00:43:45,807 --> 00:43:47,397
That's why I we said. They were vacant
1237
00:43:47,397 --> 00:43:49,478
put of the way I went to school.
1238
00:43:50,510 --> 00:43:53,234
Exactly. And what's funny is the the zeitgeist
1239
00:43:53,369 --> 00:43:55,831
of public opinion really hasn't changed because we
1240
00:43:55,831 --> 00:43:57,419
all think school is like that. Why it's
1241
00:43:57,419 --> 00:43:57,578
not.
1242
00:43:58,308 --> 00:44:00,398
We have kids and groups. We're doing cooperative
1243
00:44:00,454 --> 00:44:02,204
learning. We have discussions. We have... Their kids
1244
00:44:02,204 --> 00:44:04,112
are up and moving. There's choice. There's voice.
1245
00:44:04,271 --> 00:44:04,987
There's all kind of stuff.
1246
00:44:06,432 --> 00:44:08,577
But there seems to be like this har
1247
00:44:08,577 --> 00:44:09,848
back to that because there's so much burn.
1248
00:44:10,007 --> 00:44:10,824
There's so much
1249
00:44:11,595 --> 00:44:14,057
burnout and teacher turnover. They're like, oh, we
1250
00:44:14,057 --> 00:44:15,566
need to we need to go backwards this.
1251
00:44:16,058 --> 00:44:17,731
It's not that we need to evolve.
1252
00:44:18,767 --> 00:44:19,723
We need to go to the next level.
1253
00:44:19,962 --> 00:44:21,316
I'm not saying every teacher needs to be
1254
00:44:21,316 --> 00:44:23,626
an entertainer, but, C, it I'm about to
1255
00:44:23,626 --> 00:44:24,662
fluff your feathers a little bit.
1256
00:44:25,394 --> 00:44:27,093
I would consider myself
1257
00:44:28,431 --> 00:44:31,788
an entertaining teacher. I got energy. I wanna
1258
00:44:31,788 --> 00:44:33,386
jump up. I wanna play music. I wanna
1259
00:44:33,386 --> 00:44:33,865
do all that.
1260
00:44:34,838 --> 00:44:35,794
You better be careful.
1261
00:44:36,909 --> 00:44:39,376
But here's the thing. That's on the outside.
1262
00:44:39,615 --> 00:44:42,083
Right? Like, I be entertaining that way Feel
1263
00:44:42,083 --> 00:44:43,713
very comfortable with that. You
1264
00:44:44,167 --> 00:44:47,508
have... I've watched you teach so many times.
1265
00:44:47,667 --> 00:44:49,099
I've watched you present to adults. I've watched
1266
00:44:49,099 --> 00:44:50,867
you teach kids. I watched you teach my
1267
00:44:50,867 --> 00:44:52,382
kids. I've watched you walk into a room
1268
00:44:52,382 --> 00:44:54,536
and just start teaching. It's what you do.
1269
00:44:55,173 --> 00:44:55,673
You
1270
00:44:56,131 --> 00:44:57,030
engage people
1271
00:44:57,487 --> 00:45:00,848
because of your ability to communicate complex ideas
1272
00:45:00,848 --> 00:45:03,074
in simple ways. Your ability to play off
1273
00:45:03,074 --> 00:45:04,822
a kids. You're really to all this. Now
1274
00:45:04,822 --> 00:45:07,047
you're not running around jumping around doing cart
1275
00:45:07,047 --> 00:45:09,526
wheels. You're you're not bla music video your
1276
00:45:09,526 --> 00:45:11,352
music you're... You want them to, like, chill
1277
00:45:11,352 --> 00:45:12,940
because you're like, I don't need that energy
1278
00:45:12,940 --> 00:45:13,655
in my life.
1279
00:45:14,369 --> 00:45:14,607
Right?
1280
00:45:15,401 --> 00:45:16,989
So... Yeah. I don't mind it, but I
1281
00:45:16,989 --> 00:45:18,910
don't want it all the time. Right. Exactly.
1282
00:45:19,069 --> 00:45:21,612
But like, to... Like, I think there is
1283
00:45:21,612 --> 00:45:24,077
this mis characterization of what modern teachers being
1284
00:45:24,077 --> 00:45:26,382
ass. I like doing my I'm sorry.
1285
00:45:28,623 --> 00:45:30,056
Make a cha pain.
1286
00:45:30,612 --> 00:45:32,363
I had no idea. You had that kind
1287
00:45:32,363 --> 00:45:32,840
of language.
1288
00:45:36,103 --> 00:45:36,501
Sorry.
1289
00:45:37,155 --> 00:45:38,514
He made stuff. Right?
1290
00:45:39,155 --> 00:45:41,714
He messed stuff. That's what I said. Stuff.
1291
00:45:42,434 --> 00:45:42,934
I
1292
00:45:45,087 --> 00:45:47,631
I'd like through of those things because it
1293
00:45:47,631 --> 00:45:49,221
it... It's fun for me. I mean, 1.
1294
00:45:49,380 --> 00:45:51,686
I'm entertainer in general. So I I do
1295
00:45:51,686 --> 00:45:52,186
get
1296
00:45:53,609 --> 00:45:55,518
excitement from that piece. Little emotional.
1297
00:45:56,392 --> 00:45:58,936
Even to, you know, like, some words. A
1298
00:45:58,936 --> 00:45:59,255
little bit.
1299
00:46:00,050 --> 00:46:03,019
But I I don't... I think that teachers
1300
00:46:03,019 --> 00:46:05,099
should do what fits their personality.
1301
00:46:05,579 --> 00:46:07,819
I think they should do what what empowers
1302
00:46:07,819 --> 00:46:09,474
them to be the best teacher that they
1303
00:46:09,675 --> 00:46:11,275
but I think when we start losing.
1304
00:46:11,675 --> 00:46:13,355
And when teachers start feeling burnt out when
1305
00:46:13,355 --> 00:46:14,954
they're being forced into a box, it doesn't
1306
00:46:14,954 --> 00:46:15,454
mean
1307
00:46:15,835 --> 00:46:17,515
like being forced into the box of, like,
1308
00:46:17,675 --> 00:46:20,247
data, Like, every teacher's should at least have
1309
00:46:20,247 --> 00:46:21,604
working knowledge of how to use data in
1310
00:46:21,604 --> 00:46:24,717
a classroom Like, we need some standardization of
1311
00:46:24,717 --> 00:46:27,431
practices and whatnot, but when it comes to
1312
00:46:27,431 --> 00:46:29,279
delivery when it comes to style when it
1313
00:46:29,279 --> 00:46:31,823
comes to the art of teaching.
1314
00:46:34,765 --> 00:46:37,150
I think that people like Natalie Just don't
1315
00:46:37,150 --> 00:46:38,993
understand that concept. And so they don't write
1316
00:46:38,993 --> 00:46:40,978
about it. And I don't really necessarily bash
1317
00:46:40,978 --> 00:46:42,885
her. It's what she saw. It was her
1318
00:46:42,885 --> 00:46:44,870
perspective. Maybe she didn't have anyone in her
1319
00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:46,617
corner truly pointed her out, or maybe she
1320
00:46:46,617 --> 00:46:48,142
heard that and I was like, that's hog
1321
00:46:48,142 --> 00:46:49,675
wash. This is silly. Everyone
1322
00:46:50,208 --> 00:46:51,878
everyone should teach the same way, but it's
1323
00:46:51,878 --> 00:46:53,626
also like, there's a reason why you go
1324
00:46:53,626 --> 00:46:54,977
to the doctor and sometimes you're like I
1325
00:46:54,977 --> 00:46:56,090
don't like the doctor I wanna say a
1326
00:46:56,090 --> 00:46:59,050
different doctor. Like, this doctor's style is not
1327
00:46:59,050 --> 00:47:00,562
the style that I connected with with my
1328
00:47:00,562 --> 00:47:00,801
health.
1329
00:47:02,473 --> 00:47:04,623
Now people could argue in, well, then we
1330
00:47:04,623 --> 00:47:05,394
shouldn't have
1331
00:47:05,911 --> 00:47:07,821
schools that where you can't do that. I
1332
00:47:07,821 --> 00:47:09,651
can't change my kids schedule. I can't just
1333
00:47:09,651 --> 00:47:11,504
change schools right. That's a whole different
1334
00:47:12,117 --> 00:47:12,277
conversation.
1335
00:47:13,087 --> 00:47:15,337
But in the end, I think that
1336
00:47:16,348 --> 00:47:18,121
good lord of I've good tangent. I apologize
1337
00:47:18,576 --> 00:47:19,664
is that I I
1338
00:47:20,580 --> 00:47:22,809
Truthfully, the knowledge gap is a good book.
1339
00:47:23,287 --> 00:47:24,561
I think it points out some things. I
1340
00:47:24,561 --> 00:47:26,472
think we should focus on what knowledge am
1341
00:47:26,551 --> 00:47:27,586
I impart to kids.
1342
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:29,997
I think her solution is wrong. I think
1343
00:47:29,997 --> 00:47:31,275
that's where you and I divert the most.
1344
00:47:31,435 --> 00:47:33,933
Like, the fundamental problem she's talking about isn't...
1345
00:47:34,312 --> 00:47:35,830
I don't think we disagree with that really.
1346
00:47:36,964 --> 00:47:39,442
We might disagree with the weight to which
1347
00:47:39,442 --> 00:47:41,119
she puts the knowledge gap on it because
1348
00:47:41,119 --> 00:47:43,277
she's talking about, like, she's talking about the
1349
00:47:43,277 --> 00:47:45,755
knowledge gap as if there's some core knowledge
1350
00:47:45,755 --> 00:47:47,046
that all kids need,
1351
00:47:47,684 --> 00:47:48,184
always,
1352
00:47:49,598 --> 00:47:51,033
and it's ind dispute.
1353
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:53,903
And I think she counteract her own argument
1354
00:47:53,903 --> 00:47:55,593
with that. But I think that her most
1355
00:47:55,593 --> 00:47:57,587
fundamental argument, which I don't... It's you can
1356
00:47:57,587 --> 00:47:58,863
argue gonna say, but I don't think it's
1357
00:47:58,863 --> 00:47:59,262
wrong,
1358
00:48:00,219 --> 00:48:03,409
but the solution, you and I believe really
1359
00:48:03,409 --> 00:48:04,786
that it's wrong, which is
1360
00:48:05,258 --> 00:48:07,744
to to limit choice to limit voice to
1361
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,900
to move away from kids really interacting with
1362
00:48:10,900 --> 00:48:11,400
content
1363
00:48:12,091 --> 00:48:13,386
in a in a free
1364
00:48:14,093 --> 00:48:16,563
way. I think the solution to be teaching
1365
00:48:16,563 --> 00:48:17,440
teachers better,
1366
00:48:18,715 --> 00:48:22,539
to give better professional development to empower teachers
1367
00:48:22,539 --> 00:48:25,260
to to risk to to move back some
1368
00:48:25,260 --> 00:48:26,317
of these crazy
1369
00:48:27,409 --> 00:48:28,704
accountability measures
1370
00:48:29,556 --> 00:48:30,295
and really
1371
00:48:31,003 --> 00:48:33,472
let teachers fought to to foster a love
1372
00:48:33,472 --> 00:48:35,224
for their art in their craft without so
1373
00:48:35,224 --> 00:48:35,782
much pressure.
1374
00:48:36,737 --> 00:48:38,569
And to empower teachers to do their jobs
1375
00:48:38,569 --> 00:48:38,729
now.
1376
00:48:40,177 --> 00:48:42,324
A easier said than done, but that's a
1377
00:48:42,324 --> 00:48:43,699
better solution than
1378
00:48:44,154 --> 00:48:45,506
tell everyone to do the same thing.
1379
00:48:47,434 --> 00:48:49,434
Well, yeah. I mean because if you're telling
1380
00:48:49,434 --> 00:48:51,675
people all to okay. So I had 3
1381
00:48:51,675 --> 00:48:53,035
kids. Right? I have 3 kids.
1382
00:48:53,929 --> 00:48:55,520
Do you think any of my 3 kids
1383
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:57,111
are the same There's not a 1 of
1384
00:48:57,111 --> 00:48:59,339
them that is like the other. Not a
1385
00:48:59,339 --> 00:49:02,124
1 of them. I have to adjust. As
1386
00:49:02,124 --> 00:49:02,521
matter fact,
1387
00:49:03,174 --> 00:49:04,850
each of them thinks the other one's the
1388
00:49:04,850 --> 00:49:06,926
favorite. So that's what's hilarious about the whole
1389
00:49:06,926 --> 00:49:09,640
thing. But I have to handle each 1
1390
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:11,577
of them differently based on
1391
00:49:12,768 --> 00:49:14,361
their reaction to me, the things that they
1392
00:49:14,361 --> 00:49:15,397
do, you know,
1393
00:49:16,672 --> 00:49:18,288
stuff like that. So
1394
00:49:19,063 --> 00:49:21,865
I I'd I can't imagine telling all of
1395
00:49:21,865 --> 00:49:24,572
my kids. You know, oh, okay. So what
1396
00:49:24,572 --> 00:49:26,187
just popped in my head was
1397
00:49:26,722 --> 00:49:27,518
you know, the
1398
00:49:28,648 --> 00:49:29,784
the sound of music
1399
00:49:30,397 --> 00:49:33,021
where the dad has them all marching into
1400
00:49:33,021 --> 00:49:34,611
a whistle and they're all the same, and
1401
00:49:34,611 --> 00:49:37,156
they all march together and and none of
1402
00:49:37,156 --> 00:49:37,792
those kids,
1403
00:49:38,444 --> 00:49:40,438
are the same. They all had different gifts
1404
00:49:40,438 --> 00:49:42,592
and different things that they were interested in,
1405
00:49:43,309 --> 00:49:43,809
and
1406
00:49:44,187 --> 00:49:44,687
the,
1407
00:49:45,383 --> 00:49:47,877
you know, their Nanny was able to actually
1408
00:49:48,829 --> 00:49:51,789
let them explore, and they became happier. The
1409
00:49:51,789 --> 00:49:53,150
whole household was happier.
1410
00:49:53,789 --> 00:49:54,289
And
1411
00:49:54,590 --> 00:49:56,030
to me, that's that's what I mean when
1412
00:49:56,109 --> 00:49:57,804
I'm talking about my kids. I mean, if
1413
00:49:57,964 --> 00:50:00,042
I made them all, like, do the exact
1414
00:50:00,042 --> 00:50:02,679
same thing, the exact same way, all the
1415
00:50:02,679 --> 00:50:04,517
time and we had rules in the house.
1416
00:50:04,757 --> 00:50:06,356
We did. And I do have a few
1417
00:50:06,356 --> 00:50:07,155
that broke those rules.
1418
00:50:07,969 --> 00:50:10,050
But we had a discipline them, but not
1419
00:50:10,050 --> 00:50:11,409
all of them could be disciplined in the
1420
00:50:11,409 --> 00:50:13,809
same manner because they didn't react in the
1421
00:50:13,809 --> 00:50:16,230
same way. So just by
1422
00:50:17,025 --> 00:50:18,465
who we have in our classroom,
1423
00:50:19,825 --> 00:50:23,125
we have to be able as teachers to
1424
00:50:23,905 --> 00:50:24,405
adjust
1425
00:50:24,958 --> 00:50:27,746
and your kids you the the way you
1426
00:50:27,746 --> 00:50:29,499
explain it or whatever the knowledge that they
1427
00:50:29,499 --> 00:50:31,570
already have that they come with, you might
1428
00:50:31,570 --> 00:50:33,004
come move a little bit faster.
1429
00:50:34,213 --> 00:50:35,569
I mean, that... I find that to be
1430
00:50:35,569 --> 00:50:37,004
the case between all my classes.
1431
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:39,315
I may have a class and I'm like,
1432
00:50:40,033 --> 00:50:40,351
okay.
1433
00:50:40,989 --> 00:50:42,598
As a group, we need to I mean,
1434
00:50:42,837 --> 00:50:43,950
I have 1 or 2 that are moving
1435
00:50:43,950 --> 00:50:46,018
on, but as a group,
1436
00:50:46,734 --> 00:50:48,643
these kids are not moving as fast as
1437
00:50:48,643 --> 00:50:51,292
my other class. My third period might be
1438
00:50:51,292 --> 00:50:52,731
like, Zoom and they're ready to move on
1439
00:50:52,731 --> 00:50:55,287
to the next thing because they already have
1440
00:50:55,287 --> 00:50:57,525
that background knowledge. They already know how to
1441
00:50:57,525 --> 00:50:59,460
in And and and a lot of that
1442
00:50:59,460 --> 00:51:01,079
is determined because
1443
00:51:01,780 --> 00:51:04,019
in a school set public school setting and
1444
00:51:04,019 --> 00:51:05,860
probably in a private school setting as well,
1445
00:51:06,354 --> 00:51:07,553
is each kid,
1446
00:51:08,431 --> 00:51:10,588
at each student, you know, some of them
1447
00:51:10,588 --> 00:51:12,745
are banned students. They all each have different
1448
00:51:12,745 --> 00:51:15,157
schedules, but that their schedules they end up
1449
00:51:15,157 --> 00:51:17,874
becoming clustered with each other. And so based
1450
00:51:17,874 --> 00:51:19,472
on that clustering, your class,
1451
00:51:20,111 --> 00:51:22,039
will be different. Each class room has a
1452
00:51:22,039 --> 00:51:24,179
different personality. You might have 1 that's all
1453
00:51:24,179 --> 00:51:26,002
banned student. She may have another class that
1454
00:51:26,002 --> 00:51:27,215
has all the
1455
00:51:27,745 --> 00:51:28,483
all the
1456
00:51:29,109 --> 00:51:31,589
basketball and Volleyball team. You may have another
1457
00:51:31,589 --> 00:51:33,429
1 that is cheerleader leaders and football team.
1458
00:51:33,829 --> 00:51:36,329
I mean, you just don't... They're all different.
1459
00:51:37,045 --> 00:51:37,545
And
1460
00:51:37,924 --> 00:51:40,085
and so I I just think that to
1461
00:51:40,085 --> 00:51:40,585
make
1462
00:51:41,045 --> 00:51:41,545
teachers
1463
00:51:42,324 --> 00:51:43,125
have to...
1464
00:51:43,605 --> 00:51:46,494
I'm I'm just against that prescription. To the
1465
00:51:46,494 --> 00:51:48,107
point where there's no
1466
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:49,910
movement. You know what I mean? Like, you're
1467
00:51:49,910 --> 00:51:50,704
talking about that core,
1468
00:51:52,531 --> 00:51:53,428
predetermined knowledge
1469
00:51:54,373 --> 00:51:54,873
And
1470
00:51:55,409 --> 00:51:56,604
I just think it it can...
1471
00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:58,538
I think at risk
1472
00:51:58,914 --> 00:51:59,414
s,
1473
00:52:00,507 --> 00:52:02,339
not just the teacher, but the students as
1474
00:52:02,339 --> 00:52:03,397
well. And and
1475
00:52:03,789 --> 00:52:06,510
I I had just felt personally. Like, I've
1476
00:52:06,510 --> 00:52:07,409
had more
1477
00:52:09,070 --> 00:52:10,289
wonderful experiences
1478
00:52:10,989 --> 00:52:12,769
when my students have choice
1479
00:52:13,241 --> 00:52:14,512
I have them the Cup. I've even had...
1480
00:52:14,989 --> 00:52:16,894
Okay. This is an example. You know, we
1481
00:52:16,894 --> 00:52:18,960
went to Covid. Right? So I was back
1482
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:20,548
in the classroom and Both went back in
1483
00:52:20,548 --> 00:52:21,898
the classroom and the year of Covid.
1484
00:52:22,709 --> 00:52:23,209
And
1485
00:52:25,026 --> 00:52:27,343
my kids were doing... We were doing research.
1486
00:52:27,982 --> 00:52:30,470
And I allowed them too. So what I
1487
00:52:30,470 --> 00:52:32,378
like to do with research, especially with seventh
1488
00:52:32,378 --> 00:52:35,320
graders because right in the seventh and eighth
1489
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:37,467
grade year, they need to start thinking just
1490
00:52:37,467 --> 00:52:38,818
because of the way our high school is
1491
00:52:38,818 --> 00:52:39,136
set up,
1492
00:52:39,787 --> 00:52:42,174
They need to start thinking about how they're
1493
00:52:42,174 --> 00:52:44,162
gonna get all those credits in and still
1494
00:52:44,162 --> 00:52:45,515
get to do the things they wanna do
1495
00:52:45,515 --> 00:52:46,072
in high school.
1496
00:52:46,723 --> 00:52:48,473
Because if you mess around in your seventh
1497
00:52:48,473 --> 00:52:49,348
and eighth grade year,
1498
00:52:49,984 --> 00:52:52,132
then chances are, you're gonna have nothing but
1499
00:52:52,132 --> 00:52:54,376
classes and you can't you know, because you'll
1500
00:52:54,376 --> 00:52:56,528
be behind credits. You have to take some
1501
00:52:56,528 --> 00:52:57,586
high school credits
1502
00:52:57,963 --> 00:52:59,796
in eighth grade. So you got a plan
1503
00:52:59,796 --> 00:53:01,231
for that in seventh grade.
1504
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:03,576
Okay. So
1505
00:53:03,952 --> 00:53:06,123
I like the students to be thinking about
1506
00:53:06,577 --> 00:53:08,908
what they think... What they enjoy
1507
00:53:09,218 --> 00:53:11,701
and how they can take what they enjoy
1508
00:53:11,994 --> 00:53:13,898
and turn it into something that they can
1509
00:53:13,898 --> 00:53:16,039
do. And if they wanna do that that
1510
00:53:16,039 --> 00:53:18,363
they enjoy it, are there classes in high
1511
00:53:18,363 --> 00:53:19,961
school that they probably need to take,
1512
00:53:20,999 --> 00:53:22,916
you know, what route do they need to
1513
00:53:22,916 --> 00:53:24,135
start taking. And so
1514
00:53:24,449 --> 00:53:26,449
So anyway, I know that sounds kinda complicated.
1515
00:53:26,690 --> 00:53:28,050
I write it all out. But here's the
1516
00:53:28,050 --> 00:53:28,289
point.
1517
00:53:29,250 --> 00:53:31,090
So the kids I had some of them
1518
00:53:31,090 --> 00:53:32,610
learned that 1 of them wants to be
1519
00:53:32,610 --> 00:53:33,510
a musician
1520
00:53:33,822 --> 00:53:34,322
So
1521
00:53:34,931 --> 00:53:36,279
he... I mean, I had a lot of
1522
00:53:36,279 --> 00:53:38,657
band students in this particular class. But 1
1523
00:53:38,657 --> 00:53:40,717
of them, he did research all on sound.
1524
00:53:41,288 --> 00:53:43,516
Because he wants to be an advertiser,
1525
00:53:44,391 --> 00:53:47,040
but he wants to know how sound impacts
1526
00:53:47,734 --> 00:53:48,234
those
1527
00:53:48,704 --> 00:53:51,184
who hear advertising. How does sound play a
1528
00:53:51,184 --> 00:53:53,664
role in advertisement because he he wants to
1529
00:53:53,664 --> 00:53:56,304
do something like that. Had another 1 again,
1530
00:53:56,545 --> 00:53:56,864
music,
1531
00:53:57,439 --> 00:53:59,514
he wanted to make guitars.
1532
00:54:00,072 --> 00:54:01,588
That's what he wanted to do. So he
1533
00:54:01,588 --> 00:54:03,184
was looking at what, you know,
1534
00:54:04,062 --> 00:54:06,155
he needed an understand music, but you also
1535
00:54:06,155 --> 00:54:07,855
need to understand shop and
1536
00:54:08,315 --> 00:54:09,994
engineering and all of that. So what would
1537
00:54:09,994 --> 00:54:11,994
he need to do? And and I had
1538
00:54:11,994 --> 00:54:13,434
others, you know, I had 1 that wanted
1539
00:54:13,434 --> 00:54:13,994
to be a
1540
00:54:15,208 --> 00:54:16,802
they love video games. It's all they ever
1541
00:54:16,802 --> 00:54:18,476
do or video games. Can I do video
1542
00:54:18,476 --> 00:54:19,592
games well? What do you wanna do with
1543
00:54:19,592 --> 00:54:21,107
it? Well, I think I wanna program them.
1544
00:54:21,346 --> 00:54:22,780
Alright. Now let's see what you wanna do?
1545
00:54:23,274 --> 00:54:24,869
So that's what they were doing. Well, anyway,
1546
00:54:26,385 --> 00:54:27,661
I ended up in
1547
00:54:29,097 --> 00:54:31,649
went to a movie. And the a dad
1548
00:54:31,649 --> 00:54:33,059
and the 1 the Guitar is
1549
00:54:34,295 --> 00:54:35,889
he... The 1 that wanted to do the
1550
00:54:35,889 --> 00:54:37,085
guitar. So... Because right in the middle of
1551
00:54:37,085 --> 00:54:38,759
it that, they never got to finish that,
1552
00:54:40,114 --> 00:54:42,360
because Covid hap happened. Right? So they never
1553
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:43,555
got to finish that project.
1554
00:54:44,351 --> 00:54:46,342
And the dad came to me said,
1555
00:54:47,059 --> 00:54:48,811
because I said, hey, hello, you know, and
1556
00:54:48,811 --> 00:54:49,926
that kind of thing, and then the dad
1557
00:54:49,926 --> 00:54:50,300
is
1558
00:54:50,896 --> 00:54:52,805
Oh, are you the teacher that let him
1559
00:54:52,805 --> 00:54:55,828
do the the guitar, and he goes, yeah.
1560
00:54:56,067 --> 00:54:57,994
Dad. This is the teacher She he goes,
1561
00:54:58,074 --> 00:54:59,835
well, we went ahead and finished that project,
1562
00:55:00,155 --> 00:55:02,394
and he is already making a guitar. He's
1563
00:55:02,394 --> 00:55:05,114
already taken some engineering classes he's doing. And
1564
00:55:05,275 --> 00:55:05,514
I mean,
1565
00:55:06,405 --> 00:55:08,468
in that something, and I mean, if I
1566
00:55:08,468 --> 00:55:11,245
did not allowed choice. So that... This kid,
1567
00:55:11,959 --> 00:55:14,101
this student has a dream, maybe he will
1568
00:55:14,101 --> 00:55:16,662
me that dream. Maybe it'll change into something
1569
00:55:16,662 --> 00:55:18,015
else because they'll learn something,
1570
00:55:18,651 --> 00:55:19,151
but
1571
00:55:20,083 --> 00:55:22,728
think about that. Think about how he now
1572
00:55:22,728 --> 00:55:24,087
and that... That what the dad said, well,
1573
00:55:24,247 --> 00:55:25,525
I'm so glad that you did that we
1574
00:55:25,525 --> 00:55:27,044
were having trouble with him wanting to stay
1575
00:55:27,044 --> 00:55:30,001
in school. And now... Because, you know, several
1576
00:55:30,001 --> 00:55:30,480
years past,
1577
00:55:31,529 --> 00:55:33,061
They're already what. In
1578
00:55:33,831 --> 00:55:35,420
I mean, they've already graduated. It haven't they
1579
00:55:35,420 --> 00:55:38,040
about this time. I think probably by year
1580
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:38,437
or so.
1581
00:55:39,328 --> 00:55:40,285
That seventh grade group.
1582
00:55:41,082 --> 00:55:41,582
So
1583
00:55:42,278 --> 00:55:43,395
anyway, the debt, I think he was, like
1584
00:55:43,395 --> 00:55:44,831
a senior that year, And he says he's
1585
00:55:44,831 --> 00:55:46,585
gonna graduate. And he already knows what school
1586
00:55:46,585 --> 00:55:48,042
he's gonna go to and
1587
00:55:48,593 --> 00:55:51,222
And but we were losing him, and it
1588
00:55:51,222 --> 00:55:52,257
was your project that...
1589
00:55:53,293 --> 00:55:55,443
Because you allowed him to work on something
1590
00:55:55,443 --> 00:55:58,329
he really enjoyed. He decided what was important.
1591
00:55:59,050 --> 00:55:59,550
So
1592
00:56:00,010 --> 00:56:01,610
I got them from the dad and the
1593
00:56:01,610 --> 00:56:03,150
kid. They were both there, but,
1594
00:56:03,769 --> 00:56:06,763
you know who knew? Who knew. And and
1595
00:56:07,062 --> 00:56:08,979
and I think that's the danger in and
1596
00:56:08,979 --> 00:56:11,216
this knowledge got that... That were the the
1597
00:56:11,216 --> 00:56:12,595
things that I think
1598
00:56:14,344 --> 00:56:16,838
going back to that little core knowledge
1599
00:56:17,455 --> 00:56:18,492
is gonna interrupt.
1600
00:56:19,449 --> 00:56:20,964
There you go. That's my little sub box.
1601
00:56:21,602 --> 00:56:22,240
Yeah. I mean,
1602
00:56:22,973 --> 00:56:25,444
honestly, by last point on this and... Okay.
1603
00:56:25,922 --> 00:56:27,198
I can be done with the knowledge again,
1604
00:56:27,358 --> 00:56:29,271
which is. Yep. We're good. We're good.
1605
00:56:31,358 --> 00:56:31,836
It...
1606
00:56:32,235 --> 00:56:34,388
Like I said, it it really does... I
1607
00:56:34,388 --> 00:56:35,845
think knowledge is an interesting
1608
00:56:36,381 --> 00:56:38,295
thing to point out because on... On its
1609
00:56:38,295 --> 00:56:39,810
face, it's like, of course school should be
1610
00:56:39,810 --> 00:56:41,175
give acknowledge. But then you have to go...
1611
00:56:41,811 --> 00:56:43,082
Like, I think we're at such a point
1612
00:56:43,082 --> 00:56:44,591
in education where we get to ask, what
1613
00:56:44,591 --> 00:56:46,497
does that mean? What is knowledge?
1614
00:56:46,894 --> 00:56:47,712
Is knowledge
1615
00:56:48,498 --> 00:56:50,809
just a set of core things that have
1616
00:56:50,809 --> 00:56:53,518
always been in education or is knowledge something
1617
00:56:53,518 --> 00:56:54,235
deeper than that.
1618
00:56:55,191 --> 00:56:57,502
Is knowledge the ability to think to right
1619
00:56:57,502 --> 00:56:58,114
to speak
1620
00:56:58,632 --> 00:56:59,132
to
1621
00:56:59,507 --> 00:57:00,723
analyze to s
1622
00:57:01,336 --> 00:57:03,348
or is knowledge just knowing
1623
00:57:04,598 --> 00:57:06,348
the metaphors and the great Ga be.
1624
00:57:07,159 --> 00:57:08,137
Or as knowledge
1625
00:57:08,753 --> 00:57:11,245
just knowing when something happened in history.
1626
00:57:11,940 --> 00:57:13,534
You know? And I I think that we
1627
00:57:13,534 --> 00:57:14,273
have to
1628
00:57:15,144 --> 00:57:17,562
have those conversations. I think that we
1629
00:57:18,980 --> 00:57:21,297
we need to unpack that. III foresee us
1630
00:57:21,297 --> 00:57:22,596
having that conversation
1631
00:57:23,630 --> 00:57:25,150
throughout this year based on this book and
1632
00:57:25,150 --> 00:57:26,929
based on where things are going, which is,
1633
00:57:27,230 --> 00:57:27,550
you know,
1634
00:57:29,070 --> 00:57:32,565
just just talking both philosophically esoteric and concrete
1635
00:57:33,004 --> 00:57:33,504
about
1636
00:57:34,123 --> 00:57:35,881
the the realities of what it means to
1637
00:57:35,881 --> 00:57:38,518
be a teacher. Because when it comes to
1638
00:57:38,518 --> 00:57:39,797
teaching on the scale that we're doing in
1639
00:57:39,957 --> 00:57:41,875
America. When it comes to public school in
1640
00:57:41,875 --> 00:57:42,195
general,
1641
00:57:42,769 --> 00:57:44,287
It's having on such a level. You're not
1642
00:57:44,287 --> 00:57:44,687
gonna have...
1643
00:57:45,486 --> 00:57:46,924
You're just not gonna have pure experts in
1644
00:57:46,924 --> 00:57:49,481
a classroom. You know? It's it's not that
1645
00:57:49,481 --> 00:57:52,210
kids don't elect to go to your elementary
1646
00:57:52,210 --> 00:57:54,363
middle or high school. Right? They don't elect
1647
00:57:54,363 --> 00:57:55,958
to go to school. They don't pick their
1648
00:57:55,958 --> 00:57:57,792
classes typically, You know, they pick some of
1649
00:57:57,792 --> 00:57:59,467
them, but not really the core ones.
1650
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:02,440
They never signed up for this. It's not
1651
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:04,199
college. You can't hold it to the same
1652
00:58:04,199 --> 00:58:04,599
standards.
1653
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:06,920
You can't hold you can't hold the the
1654
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:08,840
positions that you hire to the same standards.
1655
00:58:09,573 --> 00:58:11,806
Right? Teachers can be treated like professionals, and
1656
00:58:11,886 --> 00:58:13,960
I think we can all honestly acknowledge too
1657
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:16,432
that not all teachers are are experts in
1658
00:58:16,432 --> 00:58:18,288
their content. III think
1659
00:58:19,556 --> 00:58:22,018
did the teachers that are they're clear and
1660
00:58:22,018 --> 00:58:23,447
you know who they are on campus.
1661
00:58:24,877 --> 00:58:26,704
But I would argue that a lot of
1662
00:58:26,704 --> 00:58:27,204
teachers
1663
00:58:27,830 --> 00:58:30,842
care about teaching more than their actual content
1664
00:58:30,842 --> 00:58:32,507
they teach. That's not the true for everybody,
1665
00:58:32,903 --> 00:58:34,727
but I would I would be willing to
1666
00:58:34,727 --> 00:58:36,650
bet the vast majority of teaching. That's a
1667
00:58:36,650 --> 00:58:37,286
okay. You don't...
1668
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:40,628
When we talk about public school, it's... You're
1669
00:58:40,628 --> 00:58:41,684
not hiring
1670
00:58:42,153 --> 00:58:44,458
an a like, you know, in a a
1671
00:58:44,458 --> 00:58:46,920
economist to teach the economy class and high
1672
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,953
school or or things typically, you're not. Right?
1673
00:58:50,112 --> 00:58:51,088
There's obviously
1674
00:58:51,699 --> 00:58:52,596
outliers. But
1675
00:58:53,127 --> 00:58:55,373
what I'm trying to pin down here is
1676
00:58:57,272 --> 00:58:59,743
we need to continue unpacking? What do we
1677
00:58:59,743 --> 00:59:01,417
mean by knowledge? What does it what do
1678
00:59:01,417 --> 00:59:03,410
we mean... What what does it mean to
1679
00:59:03,410 --> 00:59:04,606
be educated today?
1680
00:59:05,419 --> 00:59:07,358
Because we see... We we
1681
00:59:08,136 --> 00:59:10,932
seem to be in in parts have a
1682
00:59:10,932 --> 00:59:12,951
reversal of what that means, which is
1683
00:59:13,344 --> 00:59:15,100
Oh, you need to read these core things.
1684
00:59:15,260 --> 00:59:16,936
You do These core things g. These core
1685
00:59:16,936 --> 00:59:19,251
things. Now you're a knowledgeable person, but it's
1686
00:59:19,251 --> 00:59:22,219
like, the world's changing faster than that. I
1687
00:59:22,219 --> 00:59:24,079
mean, if you think about how long
1688
00:59:25,019 --> 00:59:27,500
the the human species has been along based
1689
00:59:27,500 --> 00:59:28,319
on biology,
1690
00:59:29,179 --> 00:59:31,599
and then you think about how long science
1691
00:59:31,914 --> 00:59:34,809
has been around. And anything about how major
1692
00:59:35,187 --> 00:59:37,581
industry has been around. I mean, really, we...
1693
00:59:37,741 --> 00:59:37,901
The...
1694
00:59:38,778 --> 00:59:40,948
From when I was a teammate When I
1695
00:59:40,948 --> 00:59:41,665
was a Freshman,
1696
00:59:43,657 --> 00:59:45,409
the first iphone was made.
1697
00:59:47,082 --> 00:59:49,733
And now you and I host a podcast
1698
00:59:50,125 --> 00:59:51,085
over Zoom,
1699
00:59:52,764 --> 00:59:55,424
and we all have phones that are highly
1700
00:59:55,644 --> 00:59:56,704
advanced. We
1701
00:59:57,005 --> 00:59:57,664
we have
1702
00:59:58,534 --> 01:00:00,916
artificial reality. We have Ai bots that create
1703
01:00:00,916 --> 01:00:03,456
lesson plans pretty much as good as any
1704
01:00:03,456 --> 01:00:04,011
teacher can.
1705
01:00:04,884 --> 01:00:06,313
We're in a whole new world.
1706
01:00:06,963 --> 01:00:10,168
And to har back to some core thing
1707
01:00:10,224 --> 01:00:10,724
without
1708
01:00:11,179 --> 01:00:12,532
augmenting it with modern.
1709
01:00:14,139 --> 01:00:16,456
Our modern maternity. I feel like it... It's
1710
01:00:16,456 --> 01:00:18,454
a it's a disservice to young people to
1711
01:00:18,454 --> 01:00:20,132
just service their families. Quite frankly I think
1712
01:00:20,132 --> 01:00:21,971
it'll fail. Even if we go all in
1713
01:00:21,971 --> 01:00:22,950
like this, which
1714
01:00:23,503 --> 01:00:25,816
I've been told that's what we're doing, especially
1715
01:00:25,816 --> 01:00:26,454
here in Texas.
1716
01:00:29,086 --> 01:00:30,841
That's fine. It'll fail, and we'll move on
1717
01:00:30,841 --> 01:00:33,488
and realize that we're... It it, like, some
1718
01:00:33,488 --> 01:00:35,483
things I don't worry about because they're they're
1719
01:00:35,483 --> 01:00:37,478
just bad ideas. It's like when you look
1720
01:00:37,478 --> 01:00:39,313
at... It's like when admin walks up and
1721
01:00:39,313 --> 01:00:40,452
goes guys, we're gonna
1722
01:00:41,084 --> 01:00:43,882
we're going to get rid of of of
1723
01:00:43,882 --> 01:00:45,640
reading in the classrooms like guy. Well, this
1724
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:47,558
will be a fad because this... Because your
1725
01:00:47,558 --> 01:00:48,996
kids aren't reading enough to do anything. And
1726
01:00:48,996 --> 01:00:50,435
they're not writing enough to do anything.
1727
01:00:51,727 --> 01:00:52,386
And so
1728
01:00:53,322 --> 01:00:54,997
I don't know. This this has definitely given
1729
01:00:54,997 --> 01:00:56,273
us a lot of food for throughout this
1730
01:00:56,273 --> 01:00:56,592
summer.
1731
01:00:57,390 --> 01:00:59,862
I'm sure this this conversation is gonna continue
1732
01:00:59,862 --> 01:01:01,573
going as as we
1733
01:01:03,384 --> 01:01:04,681
continue to unpack
1734
01:01:05,137 --> 01:01:06,889
all of this. But... Yeah. In essence, I
1735
01:01:07,128 --> 01:01:08,403
I'm I'm doing... I'm glad I read it.
1736
01:01:08,642 --> 01:01:09,837
I'm glad I've informed, but
1737
01:01:10,728 --> 01:01:12,819
I think if anything, it just honed
1738
01:01:13,512 --> 01:01:15,342
my argument better. And that's my that's my
1739
01:01:15,342 --> 01:01:16,614
last. Do you have anything to add before
1740
01:01:16,614 --> 01:01:17,251
we close out today?
1741
01:01:18,219 --> 01:01:20,757
No. I I definitely agree with you, and
1742
01:01:20,757 --> 01:01:21,257
then
1743
01:01:21,710 --> 01:01:24,407
so, yeah, I don't really have to add.
1744
01:01:25,136 --> 01:01:27,038
Darn. I was hoping What you we could
1745
01:01:27,038 --> 01:01:29,099
we could fight for the next episodes. Well,
1746
01:01:29,337 --> 01:01:30,367
I don't wanna disagree.
1747
01:01:31,001 --> 01:01:31,873
I'm not on this 1.
1748
01:01:33,161 --> 01:01:35,254
Alright, Later. When still got an hour
1749
01:01:35,710 --> 01:01:37,542
out of all of us despite the fact
1750
01:01:37,542 --> 01:01:38,817
that everything was going down,
1751
01:01:40,110 --> 01:01:42,349
that's been I'm jacob test, 2 education general
1752
01:01:42,349 --> 01:01:43,710
save texas. Do a love time about reading
1753
01:01:43,710 --> 01:01:45,230
our workshop. And so much more join us
1754
01:01:45,230 --> 01:01:47,309
on Patreon Truthfully. There's so much bonus content
1755
01:01:47,309 --> 01:01:50,270
over there, especially now. Bonus videos, You can,
1756
01:01:50,429 --> 01:01:51,778
figure out how to set up our, crap
1757
01:01:51,778 --> 01:01:53,128
the drive drones. You can ask us questions.
1758
01:01:53,366 --> 01:01:54,160
You can do all those things.
1759
01:01:56,478 --> 01:01:58,468
And and you support the show. So if
1760
01:01:58,468 --> 01:01:59,661
you think the show is valuable, you can
1761
01:01:59,661 --> 01:02:00,855
do that. If you can do that, we
1762
01:02:00,855 --> 01:02:02,447
understand. Leave a review, if you haven't already
1763
01:02:02,447 --> 01:02:04,634
subscribed haven't already. We drop it episode every
1764
01:02:04,693 --> 01:02:05,411
single weekend,
1765
01:02:07,247 --> 01:02:09,322
come out next week brother another fantastic episode
1766
01:02:09,322 --> 01:02:09,822
hopefully.
1767
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:12,696
We don't have out of the life altering
1768
01:02:13,008 --> 01:02:14,678
right before we jump on to record, but
1769
01:02:14,678 --> 01:02:16,427
she never know. But ladies and gentlemen, this
1770
01:02:16,427 --> 01:02:17,859
is Craft and draft to know that we
1771
01:02:17,859 --> 01:02:19,369
are here. Where you?