Exclusive Interview: RJ Christian and Cassidy Sledge of 'Dungeons & Dragons: The Twenty-Sided Tavern'

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Thank you so much, you two, for chatting with me today about Dungeons & Dragons
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20-Sided Tavern. How are you two doing?
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So good! Amazing!
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We are so excited for this to arrive in Detroit.
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This is, as I was telling Cassidy, this is a huge show for me.
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I'm a huge nerd, so getting to see this one arrive is just exciting.
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I just kind of want to know right off the bat, and I'll start with you,
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RJ, is how familiar were you with the world of Dungeons & Dragons before joining 20-Sided Tavern?
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I think I had played maybe two sessions of Dungeons and Dragons before joining the show.
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And so a lot of my knowledge was really learned on the job in terms of like
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what what what different abilities do and what classes do what and what what a certain mock.
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I really had to learn a whole lot.
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But the best way to do it was on the job.
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I was going to say, that's a lot of information to shove into your brain at one time.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, it made my eyeballs twitch. But we figured it out. You know,
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we know the difference between a fireball and a firebolt now.
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What is the difference.
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Marge?
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Fireball, really powerful. Fireball.
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Cassie, how familiar were you with the world?
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Okay. So with Dungeons & Dragons specifically, very.
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But in terms of like canon D&D Faerun, I had only ever played like homebrew campaigns.
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So in terms of like the lore of the world, not at all. But, like,
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I was aware of, like, classes, subclasses, spells.
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I was aware of, like, hit points and, like, the rolling of the dice.
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I had gotten, you know, like, when you first start playing D&D,
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how you can't tell the difference between a D20 and a D12 and you always mix them up?
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Yes. I had just gotten past that point when I auditioned.
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So I was, like, still new, but, like, just experienced enough to be able to
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recognize a D20 quickly.
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Now can you do it with your eyes closed? Like you just pick it up and you know,
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you're like, oh, this is a, this is a D20.
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I don't know. And now I feel like I need to test it.
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I feel like that's the ultimate way to know how you fit in.
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Oh, that would be so interesting.
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Yeah, because eventually, I don't know, I've played D&D for years and I've never
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tried that, but I assume like eventually we have to know which dice do which.
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Sure.
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I mean, yeah, D4 would be easy. D8 would be easy. D10 would be a little more challenging.
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But D12 and D20 by just eyes closed, I don't know.
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I need to try it later. Oh, my God. This is so exciting.
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So speaking about bringing this, you know, the tabletop role playing game to
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the stage, how has this production, RJ, done that? Like, what's kind of going
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on with Inside 20-Sided Tavern?
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Well, one thing I love about D&D is there's so many ways to do any particular
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action, which also means there's so many ways to fail any particular action.
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And I don't think it's clear, like, say Constitution is sometimes a very nebulous skill.
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Like, what is that? But when I'm like, I'm going to use constitution to see
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if I can hold my breath while I dive into this monster's mouth,
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like, okay, I get what that is.
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And because we're able to like physicalize that and show that and be like, oh, you failed.
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You're like drowning in his stomach acid.
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And I feel like that's the fun part is realizing the mechanics into the story
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that so many people have imagined in their heads for years and years.
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And I think that's how we get people into it.
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So it sounds like, Cassie, they're really pulling the world onto the stage for
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everyone to kind of see, while also kind of integrating the actual gameplay. Is that correct?
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Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think that the really exciting thing and the primary
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difference, I would say, between our show and like a live play show is live
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play really uses theater of the mind.
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But we have a stage. And so we're pulling this stupid stuff out and we are physicalizing it ourselves.
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And I think one of my favorite things that happens is
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anytime a character or like a person will say like my character starts levitating
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then like seeing how we make that happen like usually someone will like run
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up and like pick them up or we'll have two people like lifting them and like
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spinning them around the stage it's very silly and it's very it's very creative I.
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Feel like that fits so well into the tone of like when you're playing with your
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friends you know Just having fun on stage, playing a game.
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Yeah. Absolutely.
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I think, yeah, we're really able to capture the experience of what it feels
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like to be playing with just an intimate group of people.
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And yet, in some way, you do have a couple hundred people watching with you,
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but we still maintain that intimacy.
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And it does feel like you're playing along as an audience member.
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So, RJ, there actually is a lot of audience interaction, it sounds like, then.
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Oh, my God. It is. I think it's what makes this show so great.
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I think that's why I enjoy being in this show so much.
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Because for all of our, like, we're going to be the best improvisers and we're
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going to be so dropped in, there's still moments we can look out.
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You know, someone yells out a suggestion. It's like, I saw you say that.
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You know, like, that was really cool.
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Or, like, that was really stupid. it and you know and i
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think that's the thing of like we are all
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at the same table you know we're all playing and
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we're all like interfacing and interacting and in community with each other
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um so there's not like this artifice of like we are the actors and you are you
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you must take in our beauty like it really does feel like we are in conversation
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with the audience they're literally
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you know helping us succeed things or if
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they're feeling really naughty they're helping us fail things um so it really
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that we we say at the beginning of the show the fourth wall has been shattered
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i think that's completely true um we're looking them in the eyes we're talking
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to them the whole time um and i i love that aspect of the show like
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What an interesting concept because i feel like with so many shows you know
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the audience is the audience the actors are the actors and there's not a lot
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of and every once in a while when you get a show where there is that interaction
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um it does change the experience i think it it makes it even more for lack of
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a better term like fun like for the audience and i hope it makes it for the
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uh for the actors too absolutely
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I mean when we in the in the context of the show we have you know the three
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players and then we have the dungeon master and the tavern keeper and so the
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dungeon master and tavern keeper are running the story but we have you know
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the three players but we usually refer to the audience as the fourth player.
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And one thing that is like really heavily stressed whenever we bring a new person
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into the community and we start, you know, rehearsing, it always feels...
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Not great when you're rehearsing a show and it's like
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we say hey buddy wait until you get an audience
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once the audience is there then it becomes fun
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because rehearsing the show with no one there
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to interact it's just it's it's brutal it's like it's i don't know it's like
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trying to do a scene with yourself in the mirror it's just like what am i doing
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what's happening here so it's really genuinely the success and the enjoyment
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of the show completely depends on the audience i.
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Mean not even to plus one that there's
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so many times where the show has been reared into
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a different direction because of like the first name
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that an audience shouts out you know it's like we're gonna name the bartender
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santa claus okay now we're in a christmas story and then another audience member
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is like that's a great idea and then the wizard comes in and he's rudolph and
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so now the suddenly the show is christmas because they've said it so and i think
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that what makes you know turns a good show from a great show
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Is
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When they're really like we are gonna we're gonna help you craft this story
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but by what names we throw out or by what curveballs we throw at you to make you slip up
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Yeah you.
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Know when you're talking about the rehearsal process and you know you're kind
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of missing that person you can feel that when you do dnd as well like when one
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of your people aren't there and you almost have to turn them into an npc like
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it doesn't feel right like there isn't that same interaction so i could i could
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assume like how difficult it would feel to somebody who's just coming in to
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rehearse being like what do i do with this you know
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Oh absolutely and you know we have several moments where
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we actually have full-on conversations with individual
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audience members where we pull audience members on stage at
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one point like we have oh i don't want to spoil too much because i know you
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haven't seen it yet but there is there is a moment where an audience member
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is a very important pivotal role in the show and doing Rehearsing it without
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the fourth player is a challenge. Yeah.
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RJ, what is it kind of like? Because it sounds like you mentioned the word improv.
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Maybe that was for our entry because now we've been talking so much,
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I kind of forget. But it sounds like there's a little bit of improv.
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There's a little bit there. How do you rehearse for something like that?
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How do you prepare for a show that can change on the fly so much?
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That's a very interesting question. I feel like we really just started doing
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a couple of improv exercises and then we looked at our characters and then it
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felt like we started doing the show.
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Like, it really was this assumption of, like, the things you are going to improvise are going to be funny.
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We assume that we're not going to teach you how to do improv.
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We're going to teach you how this show best works structurally,
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best practices, and how to make sure you don't go over time.
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And we trust you're going to be funny. And, of course, we've gotten shaped in
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terms of, like, what the best way to feed into a story that's already going on is.
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And what sort of like themes will hit deeper.
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But I think there was this assumption of like, you all are funny.
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We saw that. We are not going to worry about that.
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We just want to get this show to be structurally sound and be a game that can
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be easily played by everyone.
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So really, they're just kind of giving you the framework and they say, have fun within it.
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Essentially, yeah. And sometimes we've had too much fun. I've gotten an email
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about it. But, you know, we have a reasonable amount of fun.
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So, Cassidy, within that framework, then, is there like, do you know where the show should end?
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Or like, it could depend on what happens within the confines of who's talking.
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So what's really interesting is, had you asked us this question a year ago,
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I would have said, yeah, we always know where the show is going to end.
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But we started toying around with having guest stars come in,
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and we had Felicia Day and Abrea Eingart and Erica Ishii and Anjali Bimani and
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Jack Zewhipper and Travis McElroy and Samantha Bayard.
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And I'm going to try and get everyone.
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Neil Newborn and Debra Wilde. Damn, am I missing someone?
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If you miss someone, they're going to be real mad at you.
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I sincerely apologize if I skipped someone. but
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the thrilling thing about it specifically with felicia because
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she was the very first guest star we had there was
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a moment where we had you know just like a really standard
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basic like i think it was a carpenter uh just an npc trying to help the heroes
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out in their quest and felicia just goes yeah can i i want to shoot a fireball
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at him and we were like oh oh no sorry this is the part sorry you you're new
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this is where we do improv in the scene and she's like no no i want to i just want I kill him.
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And we were like, can, can we even, is that thing that, is that something we
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can technically make happen? And so we tried the fireball effect and it worked. And we were like,
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okay, yep, I guess you can kill this NBC.
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And so like every guest star has come in and said, I want to do this thing.
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And it's like everyone on stage, it's like record scratch, freeze frame.
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Like, can you do that? And then the answer's always been yes.
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And so what used to be this pretty, pretty solid story arc has now become characters
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will die, characters will come back to life, Characters will sabotage each other.
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Sometimes the party will turn on themselves.
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And it's things that, like, maybe in a regular D&D campaign would occur to you.
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But, like, on this stage, in this context, we never thought of before.
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Like, even, like, you know, we have this wizard. And I'm going to try to speak in veiled terms.
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Essentially, like, you know, you need this thing in order to complete the ritual.
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And for some of these shows we were like we need these things to complete the
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ritual but at some point we were like
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what if we're not right, what if we're wrong what if we don't,
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what if we can do it our own way what if I can do that part what if I can make
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this magical item and it's sort of like
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it's as true as the dungeon master wants it to be on that day
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the show is so broken open and so different I mean we've had people come and saw it Like 50,
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60, I don't know what the max number is, but like we've managed to like keep
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it growing and expanding as we've gone on it.
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And I think it's made everyone the more satisfied for it.
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And it's kind of cool when you have a show that you can go back to every time.
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I had a friend who actually lived in Chicago and saw it multiple times.
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And she said, you're going to have so much fun because it's not the same show.
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Every time you go in there, it's something different. And that's what makes it so unique.
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Yeah. I also think part of what's very exciting is, like, if you just get a
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show that's, like, just the core cast, we kind of sort of have this, like,
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internal language and, like, this rhythm that's just really fun and works really well for the story.
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But if you get a guest star like, for example, Jack Lepiars,
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Jack's the Whipper, a lot of his internet presence is like dealing with hecklers.
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And so a lot of audience members will take it upon themselves to heckle.
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And so then that show will be so much more like about the interactions between
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the cast and the audience.
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Whereas, oh, Damien Haas, that's where I skipped. I'm sorry,
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Damien. If you have a show with Damien, Damien was a really,
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really strong improviser because much of his content is about creating these short form narratives.
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So his audience members were like, I don't want to say reserved,
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but just very, very locked in and very there for the narrative.
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Like D&D, the actual mechanics, when we were getting creative with those,
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they weren't super excited about it.
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But any time there was like rich world building, character relationship building,
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they were like so sat for it.
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And it's it just depends on also the audience.
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It's oh, it's very it's a very fun. This is a fun gig.
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Speaking of all of those different like guest stars and stuff,
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you like obviously you see him on TikTok. You see people talking about them.
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And there's all of the ones that you could tell there's a different feel,
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like you said, to each one of them.
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And I was sending them to my business partner and being like,
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this is going to be a great show because of this kind of comedy that they have.
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And it's over his head. He doesn't do D&D.
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So he's just like, what does this mean? I was like, well, Jack's the Whipper, he's so...
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He thinks on the fly very quickly. So that fits really well into a structure such as this.
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Yeah, absolutely. It's really interesting. You know, I think every guest star
00:15:42.186 --> 00:15:43.906
has their own flavor of comedy.
00:15:44.186 --> 00:15:50.546
So like Jax is very meta and Travis McElroy's was very, very dry,
00:15:50.546 --> 00:15:55.206
but it was almost always in character. It was very rarely like for the audience.
00:15:55.766 --> 00:15:56.346
Sure.
00:15:56.646 --> 00:15:57.366
I think, yeah.
00:15:58.626 --> 00:16:06.246
Um so you know archie you had mentioned kind of this this idea that um you it's
00:16:06.246 --> 00:16:10.366
the story changes and that things happen and stuff like that does that keep
00:16:10.366 --> 00:16:14.086
you on your toes more than as as an actor on stage because it's not like you're
00:16:14.086 --> 00:16:17.426
playing like a role all the way through every single night it's exactly the same
00:16:17.426 --> 00:16:20.806
It it really really does um
00:16:20.806 --> 00:16:23.746
the biggest skill i think i've
00:16:23.746 --> 00:16:26.786
had to learn is is really how to to listen
00:16:26.786 --> 00:16:30.746
and be interested in
00:16:30.746 --> 00:16:33.826
what this other person is giving
00:16:33.826 --> 00:16:37.026
me and not assuming that it's like the show we did you
00:16:37.026 --> 00:16:43.386
know two weeks ago you know to really be like oh today chester wants to start
00:16:43.386 --> 00:16:48.886
a business you know and like listening to and not assuming that it's like oh
00:16:48.886 --> 00:16:52.146
he wants he's done this three weeks ago blah blah blah this time it could be,
00:16:52.306 --> 00:16:54.346
I want to start a business to make my father proud.
00:16:55.359 --> 00:16:58.399
You know, I want to start a business to raise money to help you guys out.
00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:01.059
I want to start a business so I can become the richest man in the world.
00:17:01.239 --> 00:17:05.579
And really getting interested in the specifics and what these other people are
00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:10.759
throwing at you is it is sometimes very difficult.
00:17:10.879 --> 00:17:14.739
And sometimes, well, every time it gives you the best dividends.
00:17:14.739 --> 00:17:20.979
Um, and I think that's what makes it, what makes it awesome about us being together
00:17:20.979 --> 00:17:28.659
for so long is that I think that we can hear that, like that request in the words, you know,
00:17:29.099 --> 00:17:34.199
we do these things often with, with spells like, um, conjure animals, for instance,
00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:40.439
where some will be like, and I wave my magic wand around and I conjure a sea
00:17:40.439 --> 00:17:42.779
of rats to come and strike you.
00:17:42.779 --> 00:17:46.379
And it's like the pace of which they're saying it you know they might make eye
00:17:46.379 --> 00:17:51.499
contact it's like oh you want us to play the rats oh i got i i understand what
00:17:51.499 --> 00:17:57.139
you're saying you know it's like i'm in my spectral horse it's like oh you want me to be the horse
00:17:58.919 --> 00:18:02.039
And it's because we've been together for so long we know like okay
00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:05.019
this is i'm waiting for the request there it is i
00:18:05.019 --> 00:18:08.059
know what you need i got you um and those
00:18:08.059 --> 00:18:11.639
are the moments that i think can really feel like almost like a sport of like
00:18:11.639 --> 00:18:14.899
how are we going to construct this thing with the things we have on stage and
00:18:14.899 --> 00:18:20.319
these bodies and go uh and that's i think those are the most electric like on
00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:25.279
my toes moments it's like how what are you going to ask for in code and how
00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:27.079
i'm going to give it to you so
00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:29.719
It's a little bit like mind reading you have to be like you have to be able
00:18:29.719 --> 00:18:32.079
to pick up on all the body language all the eye contact
00:18:38.159 --> 00:18:44.899
yes um so with this being a show based off dnd cassidy do you feel like they're
00:18:45.299 --> 00:18:48.699
like for audiences i think like i have some people that i've even i've talked
00:18:48.699 --> 00:18:51.579
to have said like oh i don't know much about dnd so i don't know if there's
00:18:51.579 --> 00:18:54.239
a show for me do you feel like you need to have this base knowledge of dnd or
00:18:54.239 --> 00:18:56.099
do you feel like it's accessible to all audiences yeah
00:18:56.809 --> 00:19:01.589
I think that it is accessible to all audiences specifically because we do have
00:19:01.589 --> 00:19:05.549
a like a five, 10 minute section at the top of the show where we kind of sort
00:19:05.549 --> 00:19:10.209
of have like a really quick crash course about, hey, this is how D&D is played.
00:19:11.029 --> 00:19:14.389
It all just kind of boils down to you're going to roll a 20 sided die.
00:19:14.549 --> 00:19:17.049
And the higher the number is, the better you do on the thing.
00:19:17.329 --> 00:19:19.769
If you roll low, bad stuff happens.
00:19:20.169 --> 00:19:27.389
Oh, OK, start the show. And so, like, beyond that, I think very rarely we will get, like,
00:19:27.949 --> 00:19:31.029
super in the weeds about mechanics, but more often than not,
00:19:31.189 --> 00:19:36.249
we have, the language we use is TST-ified Dungeons and Dragons.
00:19:36.869 --> 00:19:40.449
So we have, like, roles for everything, first and foremost.
00:19:40.669 --> 00:19:45.689
So, for example, Magic Missile is a spell that automatically hits in D&D.
00:19:46.009 --> 00:19:49.509
But on stage, we need to make it a little exciting.
00:19:49.509 --> 00:19:52.389
We need to have uh you know some kind of stakes so we
00:19:52.389 --> 00:19:55.129
do have our players roll for magic missile as well to see
00:19:55.129 --> 00:19:58.049
if it can hit so it's like we we
00:19:58.049 --> 00:20:05.089
simplify things we we make mechanics just kind of sort of um like bite-sized
00:20:05.089 --> 00:20:09.749
easy chunks to just you know and like keep the story going because the worst
00:20:09.749 --> 00:20:15.089
part personal opinion the worst part of any dnd session is always combat because
00:20:15.089 --> 00:20:17.109
you always get bogged down in everything.
00:20:17.709 --> 00:20:21.789
And so I think one thing we do really, really well is the simplification of
00:20:21.789 --> 00:20:26.529
the rules in order to prioritize the narrative and the plot.
00:20:26.789 --> 00:20:30.889
And so as an audience member, the most important thing is if you like watching
00:20:30.889 --> 00:20:34.489
a story being told, then you will enjoy TSD.
00:20:36.149 --> 00:20:41.269
I think, RJ, that's super important because, you know, I have friends who have,
00:20:41.409 --> 00:20:44.149
you know, their kids or, you know, they're taking their nephews or nieces and
00:20:44.149 --> 00:20:46.009
they're like, I've never rolled the dice before in my life.
00:20:46.129 --> 00:20:50.329
So to be able to say, like, they can still go and enjoy this is it opens it
00:20:50.329 --> 00:20:53.829
up to everybody and makes it more, you know, enjoyable.
00:20:54.369 --> 00:21:00.189
I mean, I think that at the core of it is like, this is a story we're going to tell you.
00:21:00.909 --> 00:21:04.249
We don't know if we're going to succeed or fail. we we
00:21:04.249 --> 00:21:10.089
have no idea that all comes down to us rolling these like you know little pieces
00:21:10.089 --> 00:21:14.469
of resin that have numbers on them and we're gonna and us listening to them
00:21:14.469 --> 00:21:21.009
in with intrigue and authority like that really is like you know if we didn't
00:21:21.009 --> 00:21:22.749
have the dice i think this would be
00:21:23.989 --> 00:21:28.509
dare i say a less interesting show because then it's like oh i go and talk to
00:21:28.509 --> 00:21:32.369
him and he likes me But what if I, you know, what if I am the most charming
00:21:32.369 --> 00:21:33.649
person and I still fail that?
00:21:34.329 --> 00:21:38.449
How electric, right? Like, there was a show where I was playing this character,
00:21:38.569 --> 00:21:45.129
Tamberlane, who his whole thing is he's a sexy bard and has a silver tongue.
00:21:45.529 --> 00:21:49.909
And from the start, I was like, I've got this. I'll convince the ball attendant to let us off on Tam.
00:21:50.189 --> 00:21:53.929
And I failed it. And the next thing I did, I failed that too.
00:21:54.129 --> 00:21:57.269
And then the story became about Tamberlane losing his touch.
00:21:57.269 --> 00:22:00.349
Because what he could do before was failing.
00:22:00.669 --> 00:22:02.969
And that was all from the dykes.
00:22:03.349 --> 00:22:06.289
That was not from my brain. It was like, you were failing today.
00:22:07.729 --> 00:22:15.189
And that is true. And away we go. And that's at the heart of Dungeons & Dragons, right?
00:22:15.809 --> 00:22:19.789
How do we make this failure into the best story we can tell?
00:22:20.109 --> 00:22:26.709
How do we justify that in this grand epic that we are inventing on the spot?
00:22:27.930 --> 00:22:32.210
I, you know, I, again, played years and years of D&D, and some of the best moments
00:22:32.210 --> 00:22:33.910
are when things just happen unexpectedly.
00:22:34.250 --> 00:22:36.710
I mean, to this day, I was at a wedding this weekend, and my friend was like,
00:22:36.750 --> 00:22:39.170
I remember years ago, we had a battle.
00:22:39.370 --> 00:22:42.130
We were battling a bear, and we ended up killing it.
00:22:42.250 --> 00:22:44.830
And then he was like, yep, and there was a baby bear watching and stuff.
00:22:44.910 --> 00:22:46.210
And I said, I'm going to take it as my pet.
00:22:46.250 --> 00:22:48.510
And he goes, you have to get a nat 20 to do that. And I did.
00:22:48.610 --> 00:22:50.710
And so for the rest of the game, I just had a bear.
00:22:51.990 --> 00:22:56.030
We still talk about that because it's just something so unexpected because those
00:22:56.030 --> 00:22:58.370
dice, they do the game for you.
00:22:59.070 --> 00:23:05.150
Yeah, we there are some we actually had like a little whiteboard backstage when we were off Broadway.
00:23:05.490 --> 00:23:10.870
And any time a player would like roll something crazy, we would like nickname
00:23:10.870 --> 00:23:15.170
whatever the role was after like the person's last name, something like that.
00:23:15.170 --> 00:23:17.870
And so like uh i'm trying to think
00:23:17.870 --> 00:23:20.790
i know that mine uh was nicknamed the sledgehammer and
00:23:20.790 --> 00:23:23.950
it was rolling two nat 20s on disadvantage because that
00:23:23.950 --> 00:23:27.050
happened like one time in front of an audience and i was like this is the sickest
00:23:27.050 --> 00:23:32.730
thing that's ever happened like we each have like a like a cast member role
00:23:32.730 --> 00:23:36.950
that's like this crazy unlikely thing that happens but for whatever reason this
00:23:36.950 --> 00:23:41.090
person has done it like three or four times yep um.
00:23:41.090 --> 00:23:45.110
That's really awesome like so everybody can get their own individual like this
00:23:45.110 --> 00:23:47.070
is my special role if it happens i guess
00:23:47.070 --> 00:23:50.070
Yeah absolutely um.
00:23:50.070 --> 00:23:54.730
With the you know you said sometimes we win sometimes we fail which one's more
00:23:54.730 --> 00:23:58.710
fun for you guys you know on stage is it better to like have a story that fails
00:23:58.710 --> 00:24:02.450
or like or a mission that fails or to have something that succeeds
00:24:02.450 --> 00:24:05.410
You want to go first i.
00:24:05.410 --> 00:24:14.650
Know what you're gonna say you dirty dirty dog you I think for me rather than
00:24:14.650 --> 00:24:18.050
it being a dichotomy of succeeding and failing I think it is
00:24:19.405 --> 00:24:25.125
How do we make like if it's satisfying at the end, like if these characters
00:24:25.125 --> 00:24:28.325
have completed an arc, even if that
00:24:28.325 --> 00:24:33.845
arc ends in like we I die at the final chamber and I don't make it home.
00:24:34.165 --> 00:24:39.025
Like, I think the greatest shows have that, you know, that perfect.
00:24:39.185 --> 00:24:43.445
We somehow set this up in the beginning that this would be like,
00:24:43.645 --> 00:24:44.465
you know, which is impossible.
00:24:44.485 --> 00:24:48.425
We don't know what's going to happen. And yet sometimes it does that. It's super electric.
00:24:49.925 --> 00:24:53.025
And so I think a failure can be just as good.
00:24:53.285 --> 00:24:57.825
I think part of it's like, on the other hand, it's a game, and I want to win the game.
00:24:58.085 --> 00:25:06.505
Sure. I'm trying fairly hard to not die and get good items and use my best skills.
00:25:07.645 --> 00:25:15.025
So part of me is like, I want to win. But I think that either way can be satisfying if we, you know,
00:25:15.125 --> 00:25:23.225
use our spider sense and try to craft a story that can end in failure in a satisfying way.
00:25:24.798 --> 00:25:27.918
That's a beautiful answer. I love that. It's all, you know, it's all kind of
00:25:27.918 --> 00:25:29.638
about the narrative and what fits it.
00:25:30.338 --> 00:25:32.118
And Cassidy's a sadist.
00:25:32.758 --> 00:25:37.298
I was going to say, she's over there like, um, I like a failure. Me?
00:25:38.758 --> 00:25:44.038
I love it when I'm able to make a TPK happen. It's only happened two or three
00:25:44.038 --> 00:25:47.538
times, I think, for me when I've been the dungeon master.
00:25:47.538 --> 00:25:50.658
I also i think there's just something about
00:25:50.658 --> 00:25:53.638
like my little like goblin brain of
00:25:53.638 --> 00:25:56.678
just like wanting the rare thing to happen more
00:25:56.678 --> 00:25:59.678
often and the truly the rarest
00:25:59.678 --> 00:26:02.638
ending we have is a full failure there are
00:26:02.638 --> 00:26:05.458
like ultimately with all of
00:26:05.458 --> 00:26:08.538
the options of uh you know as an audience member you play along
00:26:08.538 --> 00:26:11.538
you decide where we go who we meet and literally
00:26:11.538 --> 00:26:15.038
how the story ends and through all of those decisions
00:26:15.038 --> 00:26:18.418
we have uh uh the script like it branches and
00:26:18.418 --> 00:26:21.378
it branches and it branches depending on do we go this way or this way okay this
00:26:21.378 --> 00:26:26.858
way this way this way so there's like something around like 400 000 possible
00:26:26.858 --> 00:26:30.338
combinations of things you can see on stage and that's before you even bring
00:26:30.338 --> 00:26:33.438
any of the improv into it before you even bring any of the characters into it
00:26:33.438 --> 00:26:37.298
before you bring into who is playing what character like it's truly there are
00:26:37.298 --> 00:26:40.498
an infinite number of possibilities but that being said.
00:26:41.533 --> 00:26:48.273
The show can sort of be really, really simplified into four different types of endings.
00:26:48.533 --> 00:26:53.413
Either perfect, full success, mixed success, mixed failure, or full failure.
00:26:53.653 --> 00:26:58.693
And the rarest by far is full failure because a lot of people have to die.
00:26:58.693 --> 00:27:00.313
You have to fail a lot of things.
00:27:00.453 --> 00:27:03.393
People have to take a lot of damage. And the audience has to do really poorly
00:27:03.393 --> 00:27:04.713
on their challenges as well.
00:27:04.713 --> 00:27:12.073
So that i think it's only happened like 30 or 40 times out of the 450 shows we've had so far,
00:27:12.853 --> 00:27:15.833
and so just for the the sake of
00:27:15.833 --> 00:27:18.813
the text that i get to read as a dungeon master at
00:27:18.813 --> 00:27:21.833
the very very end of the full failure it's
00:27:21.833 --> 00:27:25.073
like there's so much gravitas there and it's just like man
00:27:25.073 --> 00:27:28.193
faerun is going to be changed and not for the better like you
00:27:28.193 --> 00:27:30.993
failed this horrible energy is
00:27:30.993 --> 00:27:34.113
going to continue to seep out and other heroes
00:27:34.113 --> 00:27:37.373
are going to have to work a hell of a lot harder tomorrow to overcome this
00:27:37.373 --> 00:27:40.253
obstacle and i think that just kind of sort of being
00:27:40.253 --> 00:27:43.033
able to say like hey guys the story we
00:27:43.033 --> 00:27:48.673
told has consequences and it's just it's very exciting because the ending of
00:27:48.673 --> 00:27:53.053
the show affects how difficult the show is the next day so if we get a full
00:27:53.053 --> 00:27:56.793
failure then the next show is going to be like the dcs and everything are going
00:27:56.793 --> 00:28:00.273
to be much higher it's it's very it's It's a fun mechanic, yeah.
00:28:01.536 --> 00:28:07.396
That's super awesome. I, you know, I, I, I love that you got excited about that
00:28:07.396 --> 00:28:10.436
because there is some, there a little bit, there has to be some energy for that.
00:28:10.796 --> 00:28:12.296
And Audrey's like, what are they on over here?
00:28:14.616 --> 00:28:19.876
This person is crazy. They want us to die. I do.
00:28:20.096 --> 00:28:20.756
I really do.
00:28:22.216 --> 00:28:25.536
So with that, I just want to thank you so much for both of you being here.
00:28:25.636 --> 00:28:26.876
It's been a pleasure chatting with you.
00:28:27.856 --> 00:28:30.356
And again, we're looking forward to seeing the show. So thank you for your time.
00:28:30.896 --> 00:28:32.576
Thank you so much. We had so much fun.
00:28:33.376 --> 00:28:37.116
So Dungeons & Dragons 20-sided Tavern arrives at the Fisher Theater on November
00:28:37.116 --> 00:28:40.256
1st for two performances. So get your tickets now and we'll see you at the show.
00:28:40.996 --> 00:28:41.856
Bye, friends.
00:28:42.216 --> 00:28:42.636
Bye.