The Death of the Touch Panel is Highly Overstated

Rob Stott: All right, we are back on the Connected Design podcast. And I I'm just gonna mention this right up front. I am setting myself up for failure if we're just talking about accents, because I'm gonna make myself look like, you know, just some average Joe Schmoe American here on a podcast with my Philly accent and my wooder and all that sort of stuff. But ⁓ no Mr. Michael Short and Mr. Giles Sutton of Crestron. ⁓ Giles, the director of business development. And Michael, ⁓ global VP of marketing. Gentlemen, I appreciate you taking the time and ⁓ you know, deciding to to do a podcast and put my voice to shame per personally. So ⁓ it's all right. I mean, to be fair, when we look at how Giles and I have both ended up working pretty much in America for an American company through journeys ⁓ from the UK, it's it's pretty wild. How much do you attribute to your accent? accents, I should say. Make it sound intelligent, you know, Rob. That's that's how it works. I know, it's amazing. So no, I appreciate ⁓ obviously I jest, but ⁓ I really could just let turn it over and let you guys talk and I'll be enthralled. But I we do have questions to ask and a a lot of fun, ⁓ a cool topic to dive into today, but ⁓ before that, ⁓ you know, I know first first podcast with you guys, and I know we have a ⁓ a bunch planned to do with you guys ⁓ through at Crush Tron through our podcast. So ⁓ but this being the first, I want to give you a chance. I know plenty of people know, they probably recognize those voices, ⁓ but I want to give you guys the chance to introduce yourselves and give a a little bit of background on each of you and ⁓ you know, just kind of set the stage for for what we're gonna be talking about today. So ⁓ flip a coin, ⁓ Giles, I I'll just throw it to you first. You know, introduce yourself and ⁓ give a little bit of that background. Sure. Well, thanks, Rob. And also I have to say, it's great to see Connected Design back as well. So very excited about this. ⁓ it's awesome to be involved. And yeah, we've we've known each other a long time. I've been in the industry for most of my working career now, I would say. So it's d over twenty years. ⁓ but I was an integrative for 14 years in the UK. ⁓ moved to the States. Was working for Cedia as ⁓ VP of industry engagement, also as interim co-CEO for a little while, ⁓ CD the association side. So a lot of work with the design and build community, ⁓ working with other partner associations as well and running some of our regional events. ⁓ did a master's ⁓ in legal studies, got it kind of interested in, you know, cybersecurity and privacy law and things like that. So ⁓ took some time out to figure out what I wanted to do and ⁓ and then yeah, about a year ago joined Crestron to head up dire North American business development. So love being here. W very much what I've been doing for most of my career, which is ⁓ working with specifiers, designers, architects, and developers. ⁓ so yeah, that's pretty much where I am right now and very excited to ⁓ to be ⁓ meeting with you today as well, Rob. So ⁓ Yeah, thank you. No, I appreciate it. And ⁓ you know, I obviously ⁓ you mentioned the the connections that it's been fun to follow your career too. ⁓ kind of what you've done and having that rounded background of the integration side, but also the association side that ⁓ you know, supporting the channel as a whole, kind of got to experience everything from all sides of the industry and then obviously bringing those talents over to to Crestron and ⁓ joining ⁓ creating a one two punch. I'm gonna I this is the last last reference to the the accents, but the one two punch of the accents is just it's perfect. So the the you guys teaming up, this was like meant to be. So Michael, now your turn, right? And you know, it was great when we first had the opportunity or knew that Giles was potentially going to be available to join Questron. Many of us were excited because of his history, his experience on the integrator side and design build market with Cedia. So it's real game mix. My background Based in the UK, but my teams are based both in the US and in Belgium, where we have two of our European and obviously US headquarters. I accidentally stumbled into the world of AV when I first started my career. I've I've specialised in marketing for most of my career in different sectors. ⁓ and the opportunity came to join Crestron Europe. This is maybe 12 years ago now. I've been at Crestron for 10 years and had a break in between, but about 10 year stint. And I started looking after Emir marketing. I had the opportunity to take on, as we were growing our residential business, everyone at Crestron and in the industry probably knows John Clancy reasonably well. When he joined Crestron, we looking at growing the residential side. And from there really I I've had the opportunity to grow within my role and now have a wider remit covering both residential and commercial, looking after PR social, creative. marketing operations, product marketing, ⁓ and have ⁓ the experience to the great experience of working with ⁓ lots of groups within Questron, working with lots of dealers, the channel teams like Giles and the other sort of business development areas of the company. So really exciting for me. Like I said, 10 years at Questron and this industry in itself just continues to grow and change. We continue to battle away with economic problems, you know, problems across borders, ⁓ situations just continue to be ⁓ to be throwing punches at us, but it's a wild ride, and I think that it's still one of the most exciting industries ⁓ around. ⁓ we get to work with incredible people on incredible projects, and it's really fun to see be involved in physical ⁓ technology changeways on both hardware and software. And today's topic. Around the touch panel or touch screen. We you know we call it touch screens here at Questron, but it's touch panel and touch screen the same same, is a really interesting one because it's kind of at the heart of what people touch. Lots of what we do, lots of the magic is behind the scenes. Very few things do customers touch, and the touch screen is one of them. And this is a really, really interesting topic today. Yeah. No, I I appreciate you both ⁓ sharing that. It it obviously sets the table for today, but also future conversations that ⁓ you know, I know we hope to have and ⁓ you know that that topic you you know, you mentioned it's a it's it's all I feel like it's always been one of those things I I th I can even relate it to as a parent, right? Screen time, right? And and thinking about how it's just a constant battle between whether it's parents and kids or media and par like how the discussions are happening between this channel or or you know, w what in any sort of facet of life, right? But it it's always been sort of the thing, you know, especially from a design standpoint, when you get into homes or commercial spaces around, you know, directions that a a space will go. So ⁓ for those that aren't sure or I haven't been aware, don't necessarily follow the news. I want to give just a little bit of an overview on sort of more recently some of the discussion points that have been happening. And ⁓ you know, I don't mind calling out the publications necessarily. I you can go find them if if you want, but ⁓ there was one in Architectural Digest that really had more to do with I I feel like the design around a space, right? So there was an article that ⁓ you know, addressed sort of the the the re-emergence we can call it, I guess. I don't know that they never ever really went away, but you know, switches and buttons and things like that, the tactile functions of a space and and those Coming back to replace you know screens that people were tired of looking at and using these these touch panels, touch screens. ⁓ and then another ⁓ coming from residential tech today actually had to do with the rise of voice sort of impacting you know the ⁓ the the use of touch screens in the home. And I just it felt like everyone from all sides was coming at the touch screen within like a couple weeks of each other. It's like, what did the touch screen do? Like, what the heck? Why are we doing this? So I you know, those are kind of the conversations that are going on. I I guess just right off the bat, the instant reaction from from both of you a around the just t hostility toward towards the touch screen of late. ⁓ like what what comes to mind when you see those types of conversations and editorial pieces sort of thrown out there? I mean, I I I read the article as well and it's it was interesting because some of the use cases I guess they gave of the touch screen, I think were A little unusual. I I think any integrator in this channel would not suggest that, you know, to turn lights on and off by your bed, if you want to get up in the middle of the night, you have to go to a touch panel, go into an app, go open an app, touch, you know, turn turn on a lighting scene. That is not a a practical use of technology. And I think it kind of presented it in an interesting way. It sort of presented it as an either or as opposed to having, you know, a a an and, you know. And I think Some of it definitely comes from ⁓ you know, there are there are touch screens everywhere, right? There's touch screens and we've seen in the automotive industry where there's been a huge like leaning into touch screens to the point where actually some automotive industries are pulling back because, you know, there are there's there is so much you can do when you're driving and you're having to navigate. But I think that kind of illustrates the point in a way. There's ways that you can use touch screens and where they add tremendous value. But also there is this rise of more sort of tactile, you know, controls, more kind I guess more traditional in some ways, that sort of complements that use. But I think some of it some of this may come from, you know, app, maybe app and touch touch screen exhaustion, you know, that we that we all kind of endure in that we all have like multiple apps for multiple things. And I think if anything, that really hammers home the value of having a centralized control system. Of having one like one app to alleviate that, but a mixture of different different interfaces in the home, whether that is voice, whether that is traditional quote unquote keypads and tactile controls, and then also touch screens for things that you can only do on touch screens. You can only view a a CCTV camera on a on a touch screen. You can only edit a touch ⁓ edit a lighting scene on a touch screen. And I know I'm using a touchscreen and I know We should call them touch panels at Crestron. But ⁓ but you know, there there are certain things that that where they where they are absolutely necessary to make the use of a home streamlined and and simple. There's a there's a it's a sort of almost ⁓ a a weird kind of sort of crossover where a actually can become more complicated if you don't have one. Yeah. ⁓ I mean it makes sense. I it Michael, before getting kind of your your hot take reaction to to the the conversation there, ⁓ I to something a point that you made there, Giles. It like almost ⁓ does it feel like a correction made or is it like people reacting in a in a way where like to your point, ⁓ touch screens ⁓ the car is a great example. I'm I'm glad you brought that up 'cause I ironically, timing wise, just ⁓ upgraded from like a two thousand six to like a twenty twenty six the and it is a world of difference. Not even just talking about safety features, but about the like the touch panel being in there and it's like, now I have a T V in my car. ⁓ you know, it it's a correction bad like is it a correction back to like we went too far one direction in coming back? Like i there is a balance that we're trying to find? Or i do is it sort of that? I think so. I think absolutely. ⁓ there is a famili like people I go back to perfectly designed remote control, right? And there we all know those remote controls that we've used over the years. In the UK, you know, it was the sky remote control, you know. In other you know, over here, you know, maybe it's ⁓ the Roku remote control. Or or there are remotes that where people just instinctively know where where the buttons are where you n when you navigate them. You just know where to find them. And and that kind of gets lost with the touch screen, even in and I won't mention automotive names for various obvious reasons, but you know, when you're driving along at seventy miles an hour and you need to adjust, you know, the the the temperature within the car, you know, they now have to build in safety systems into cars to prevent you from looking at a way when you have to do that and you're navigating through to find you just can't find it while keeping your eyes on the road. It's impossible. So I think there is now we're coming to a sort of convergence, a sort of a a a central point where an an automotive is is is definitely moving back in some ways, where you do need controls, maybe not going quite as far as some ⁓ cars that are more known for maybe off road, let's say. I can't mention the names, but you know, more off road cars that are used quite a lot where there's just switches everywhere. But you know, there's There is definitely a happy medium, I would say. And that's probably the same within the residential environment. No, that's fair. ⁓ Michael, kind of going back to that that hot take reaction, what when you see these articles and these types of commentaries out there around ⁓ you know, touch screens or touch panels, like what what is your reaction? Initially it's like, ⁓ here we go again. Well and I what I mean by that is ⁓ six years ago Keypads, touch screens were all going to disappear because of voice control. Everything was going to be voice. There'd be no need for a light switch in a single home. It's all going to be voice and voice, voice, voice, voice, voice. ⁓ obviously, that didn't happen because the requirement to touch something is very important in a home. There's always gonna be a need to switch a light switch, to press a button. It's not, it's not going away. And then the other side of this is, and I totally agree with Giles. What you're saying with regards to this is all about mix for the right environment because we have this wonderful technology that is voice coming along, so let's use it in the right way. you look at keypads, and again, the architectural digest story, they're actually just referring to bringing back switches that are still smart. So they're not removing the keypad or replacing a touch screen, they're taking What was a dumb light switch that might have now been a really smart keypad with three buttons, and actually now making it a smart keypad with an aesthetic switch? It's the same same. It's still a smart keypad. So it's not replacing anything. Touch screens don't replace light switches or keypads on the wall. Touch screens are used in very specific environments. In fact, in many of the most high-end homes will do, you will see that, let's say, in a door entry area. Or maybe in the kitchen as you first walk in, there will be a touch screen with a keypad above it or next to it because of the tactile motion of feeling it. Now, we're all saying the same thing here. We all totally agree that you know the the point is that the touchscreen is not going away. And actually, you know, both the articles really were just playing sort of clickbait with regards to what this is. But they're also a little nuance, maybe within. ⁓ within the one that wasn't the Architect Digest one, it was on ResiTech today. Yep. There there could also be a little bit of ⁓ survivorship bias, maybe in some of the sourcing materials there, because both the quoted experts represented voice-based tech adjacent businesses, whether it was a consultant pushing voice systems. In their property. And I think the other one was a platform marketer for voice. Now their interests lie in voice technology. Our interests actually, outside of all this, yeah, we want to sell touch screens, but we also have a really great voice control platform. And we also partner with Alexo and Google. So we also work with the best voice control platforms out there. We're open to it, but the reason why we Partner with those voice control platforms, and we don't make our own voice control hub and package up and sell it, is we know that the touchscreen has a really important place in the home. It is required for so many experiences. And I think that in reality, finding the right mix of what, where, and how is really, really important. And I think that's where ⁓ we all sort of ⁓ agree on there, that the point is. That it has its place, it's required, as does voice. As does a keypad, as does a keypad that looks like a beautifully designed light switch. Yeah. I and I I think it's important too that that everything you're mentioning is that I you know, it almost lends itself to there's certainly misconceptions, I think. When people read a headline like that or or see an article like that, ⁓ talking about, you know, these these displays being too prevalent in a home, they probably think like, ⁓ every you mean every switch in my house is now a touchpad, like ones, you know, maybe the size of an iPhone versus the size of an iPad. Like I have them everywhere and there's no button. Like they think it's in every room of the house. Whereas in reality, you know, I don't think that was ever the case or the intent, right? Was to just replace all these switches with, you know, screens that you have to touch and and things like that. It's more in moderation, ⁓ as opposed to, you know, just proliferation ⁓ just to make it fun and catchy. ⁓ but like putting these these screens in every room was never the intent as far as, you know, implementing this technology in a in a system, whatever it might be. Yeah. I mean I think there's no there's no doubt that there is a a design movement towards more sort of more tactile, more traditional like looking controls. And and you know, we have partners, there's multiple brands that we partner with that allow that kind of control. And I think there is even but yeah and it was interesting Michael said that about about voice, because I even remember when and you're you know we all remember when the iPad came out and everyone thought that that was also going to be the the death of the you know in wall touch panel. ⁓ but actually it's it's not been that it's again it's a just another way plus voice plus these tactile controls. And it's I think it's it may be more that it's being associated with The complexity of all the apps on our phones. It's it's maybe being associated more with complexity than simplicity, which you which when there is something to be said for a light, you know, a lighting keypad or a lighting control or you know, tactile control, and you just instinctively know how to use it, it's it's it's labeled properly. It you just go up to it and you know how to switch the room on and off, which is what everyone wants, you know. Whereas with a panel, there isn't an There is still an element where you have to learn it. You have to learn how to navigate it. So I think there's also that that plays into this. And the other thing that kind of struck me with this, and again, I don't want to rip into sort of the article too much, but the the closing around the future being multi modern, I would challenge this ⁓ and say, Well, I don't know if that is the future. That's what we do now. It's what we've been doing for years, you know. My home, your home, the biggest homes that we do, the the spaces that Questron are in, we use keypads, we use voice, we use automation, we use sensing, we we ⁓ we touch, we feel. That is that is everything that's currently happening. And it feels like potentially ⁓ the next phase of this story is more like, okay, we know that this multimodel. Is actually what's available right now. But what is next? And we're all having conversations about AI, which again I don't think we should talk about on here because God, it's everyone is. But but that potentially is what's actually next is how do all these come together and seamlessly work for the customer and for the end user? And how does the AI layer add on to that? Because right now all our homes are using touch, voice, sensing, automation, environmental control. In one way or another. Yeah. I and to your point, that probably a future conversation. ⁓ certainly that's I think that's a topic worthy of of its own ⁓ discussion for sure. But ⁓ I know I mentioned this sort of at the top of the conversation, ⁓ and I I wanna give you the chance to like d do you think there's any correlation? I again kinda biased as a parent and thinking about trying to limit screen time. I know that is such a a big talking point in the parental community. of wanting to reduce like this access to screens and and looking at a screen. Do you think that has any impact or like reason why this is or am I just making a leap as a a sensitive parent here? I think ⁓ I probably shouldn't say this. Our our screens are not that much fun. No. I get what you're saying. I mean that in the nicest way in terms of you know I I my touch screen in this house It's I love it because it's a geek. I control my home. My my wife goes there and presses the button two or three times a day, maybe to pick some music or to put the shades up. But they're not that entertaining. And may maybe I'm wrong, Charles. I don't know what you think, but I just I I don't know whether that is a correlation. I could see it with with the phone, you know, because if we're controlling and using the Cresh on Home app on your phone, then You know, I sit down on the sofa sometimes and open my phone to control the light in the room because the remote's somewhere else and you pick up your phone and your kids see you on the phone. Yeah, that's that's not that's not good. But the actual touch screen, I think it's maybe a stretch. But Giles, I don't know, what did your gut say with that? No, yeah, I agree. I'm not sure it is a screen time thing. I think it's more more a simplicity thing, I think, in in some ways. It's more being associated with ⁓ the you know the multiple apps to navigate, some a steep learning curve. I'm not sure it's a a screen time issue. I'd agree with Michael. Yeah, that they're I think it if it yeah, they're not that much fun, but they but that illustrates the functional nature of them. And and at the end of the day, you know, I do hear a lot from Spencifiers, you know, we just want a simple we just want simplicity. We don't need a system. We don't need a light control system. We just want, you know, we just want simple switches. You know, that's that's something but there's a point where simplicity in the pursuit of simplicity it can it suddenly becomes complic complicated as a tipping point in like say an open plan living area where you have a dining room a dining area maybe you have a l a living space you have a kitchen then you have outdoor lighting think how many lighting zones you have in that one space how many places you will need to have rocker switches and dimmers in the like if that's simplicity I I don't think that's what what people would view as as very easy to use at all. So that I think that's where it's really where where people are sort of associating it where that's a tactile switch, that's a rocker switch, you know, that they understand how those work, but in in general day to day life, that is a nightmare to use, you know, when you have like multiple switches everywhere. No, makes sense. And it hey, at the very least, comforting to as the parent that ⁓ it's not It's not that at the very least. So no, I I appreciate you both. ⁓ and maybe another parent gets comforted in hearing that as well. It's like just one less conversation because it happens at school, like it's everywhere, man. So ⁓ you know, that that's remove it from this conversation and and move on. But one thing I know too is that it it's all of these discussions, it's great. People write words, they they have these discussions like this, ⁓ and talk about, you know, the the death of the t the touch screen or w however you want to phrase it and clickbaity. ⁓ type you know approach to get people to to read your opinion. There's data out there, I'm sure. And, you know, you guys Yeah like totally. Where where does it actually lie as far as you know there's all this discussion around, you know, touch panels going away. Are they? So I I I actually was looking at some of our data this morning, not particularly for this call, just as part of ⁓ internal conversations and ⁓ it's certainly they are certainly not going away for question. When we look at the number of touch screens per project, when we look at the number of touch screen sales that we're making, it is a category that is extremely strong for us and is growing. So we're not seeing that in the homes that we're working on. ⁓ I actually feel like from a dealer's standpoint, for them, it is a product that they can suggest and utilize. In multiple areas, it's a great, it's a great opportunity to ⁓ to to put a solution in multiple places. So from our data, I know that we're not seeing it decline. I know that we've just moved to our new 80 series, and again, we're seeing amazing trajectory in that product line as well. So I know our data isn't saying that. From the design build standpoint, Giles, are you getting Do you get much pushback from designers and architects on ooh, I can't put an ugly touch screen? I think our touch screens beautiful, by the way. But do you ever get that, get that sense that they don't want that? Or is it a bit like, well, we know that we're gonna have to put a TV on a wall? And in many cases, I know they might hide it, but touch screens, I believe, are quite aesthetically pleasing in many styles of homes. But what what do you hear? I I I mean it's ⁓ it's not so much on the touch screens. I think the touch screens, ⁓ there's an there's an acceptance that you need to have them in certain areas of the home. Again, that's why it's surprising to see this article, I think, from our from our from our standpoint. there's an acceptance that you need to have them in in certain areas ⁓ of the home. We don't get a lot of pushback on that. I think that the the area that the specifiers that the designers really look at is the the the the keypad, the lighting keypad. That's that's really ⁓ one where they're really concerned about the number the you know the the finish of that the the look and feel and I think that's where you know we have we have great options both from what from our own from our own keypad offering plus you know working with with partners as well. So ⁓ I'd also just say in terms of like you know what you quoted in terms of ⁓ you know touch screen sales Michael you know we've seen not just from within more channel other channel manufacturers that may have started in voice that have then evolved, but we've also seen from sort of those IoT, more sort of consumer-based products that have started with voice, like, you know, Google and Amazon that have now sort of evolved ha ha then have hub touchscreen offerings. So it shows that there is demand for those, I would say, across the board. ⁓ but ⁓ yeah, n the I think our touch screens are are beautiful. I think w when it comes to touch screens, I think there is opportunity also for innovation. I think that's also something we need to think about that ⁓ there are things that we can borrow from from the iPhone in terms of facial recognition, you know, maybe near field technology. There's things where I think the touchscreen still has room to evolve to ⁓ to actually then add more, there's more use cases around it in the home, personalization to different users as they come walk up to it, ⁓ and different family members, different access levels, you know, from a guest through to a homeowner. So I think there's more that we can do with a touch screen to make it more useful. ⁓ as well as maybe there's things to, you know, evolving it into other areas. We, you know, as we said earlier, AI could be a whole separate conversation if we wanted it to be. But there's ways that there are certainly things that from the more consumer IoT ⁓ world that I just mentioned, there are some very useful things to those touch screens that we use in terms of like bringing in like recipes and like how long it's gonna take you on your commute to the office and things like that that maybe can start to come into the ⁓ the pro channel. And I'm I'm glad you mentioned all that because I think that gets to, you know, for anyone that sees these types of commentaries or maybe just natur in inherently has these opinions of themselves out there around touch screens in the home. ⁓ You know, the it get what everything you just mentioned kind of gets to how, whether it's ⁓ you know, someone from your team or an integrator out there, how to approach those professionals or the homeowner, ⁓ to you know, almost alleviate those concerns or just help them make sense of why this type of technology, you know, is necessary might be the word you want to use, right? But like I you know, it is something that makes sense to have in this home. ⁓ you know, or in the project that you're working on because of all of the ways that, you know, a couple of tactile switches aren't going to be able to do that. Today, ⁓ you know, God knows who knows with AI AI and technology advancements, right? But like that those types of things are only possible right now with the technology that you know you guys are have and ⁓ you know putting these touch panels within a home. Totally. And I think Giles mentioned one thing earlier on with regards to security cameras and being able to ⁓ view view cameras on a screen you know so when you're having that conversation with customers especially when you think of you walk into a a a lobby or your front your front porch or whatever it might be on the scale of homes now in many homes there's a light switch there's a security camera screen there's ⁓ a number pad to set your alarms there's all these devices on the wall this Can be replaced by the touch screen that can do cameras, it can do ⁓ your security pins, it can do your lights, it can do your goodbye, your welcome scenes, it can be set just for your home screen. ⁓ at night, it can light up for you when you come in through the front door so you can see it. It can be all these great things at the front door. So Giles mentions cameras at the start of this call. That is a huge advantage of a touch screen in that space. Then in other areas of the home. For me, it's all about it being felt like this is like the heartbeat of the room. At any point, it doesn't replace the keypads and the light switches as you first walk into the room to activate a lighting scene, to activate on off to do things. That's fine. That can be on a five-button keypad and can control lots of things. But when you're in your big open plan kitchen and you're entertaining guests and people want to select music. Want to click a scene, or you want to search for something, or you want to pay to the kids who are upstairs in a different room, you can only do that from a panel on the wall that has access to these things, and that is why you pay for a professional smart home to get all that stuff centered on that beautiful singular screen. So it is a conversation that hopefully everyone's having because. It's it's it's important to me. It's it's and it's one of the most exciting things that I think exists within a pro smart home. Your friends don't have that, your neighbors don't have that. When they walk into the room, and I know it's not all about showing off, it's about lifestyle. When people walk in and they see a a touch screen on the wall, it's like, Whoa. What's that? That's cool. That's great. I I I believe that's part of the style as well. Yeah. For sure. It's it's that experience that it provides and and it's something that I you know, you hope someday we get to a point where you walk in and that is like is normal to see. Right. But right now it it it is that differentiator or just the thing that ⁓ you know, it it's it's it's the cool to ha like it it is awesome. ⁓ and and something that makes you think, you know, something's different about this space or this home and and what you can do within it. But ⁓ you know kind of Button it up. Like I I feel like all all of what we've talked about, you know, clearly there's like a happy medium with all of this, but ⁓ at the very least the headline should be that the death of the touch screen is over overstated, right? Right. This is not like a, you know, the the touch screen is dead, long live the touch screen. Like no, it it's it's here to stay and has a purpose and ⁓ you know, something that ⁓ we'll we'll certainly continue to see ⁓ and ⁓ you know, understand more about and I I know too the the use cases are gonna evolve for this as well. ⁓ like for this technology as well. So to see all you talked about so many agiles, so many use cases and and things that make it different. I I can't even imagine, you know, three, five, ten years from now what these screens are gonna be able to do within a home and ⁓ you know, how we'll we'll be using them then 'cause I'm sure it's just like AI and other technologies out there, it's evolving every day. So it'll be something to to experience. But ⁓ no, this was a a cool conversation, guys. I appreciate you diving into it. ⁓ You know, allowing me to to speak. I said no more, ⁓ you know, talking about that, but i I can't not end a podcast with you two talking about accents. But no, I appreciate you ⁓ you know, sharing it all and ⁓ you know diving into it 'cause it's it's one ⁓ you know, hey, we can have this conversation, but it's certainly gonna continue and ⁓ you know, to have you guys as a voice out there, no pun intended there, ⁓ talking about touch screens. ⁓ it it's important. So thank you for that. It's a pleasure. ⁓ thank you.