Ep 34 | Summer Learning: Balancing Fun and Education with Educator Barnes

Charles Cole: Welcome to Color Commentary, a podcast where the stories shaping our world are told in black and white first. Then we dig into their deeper meaning in full color. Each week I'll be bringing you news like this. First, we'll start with what I like to call the black and white section. A clear, straight shooting rundown of the facts in a tradition of greats like Ed Bradley, Walter Cronkite, and the classic voices of journalism. Then we'll shift into the color commentary section where I have my own personal opinions and insights. Sometimes it'll just be me. Sometimes we'll have guests, but we'll continue to figure that out together. Exactly what we want the show to be. With your feedback shaping that journey, let's get into it. And today is one of those episodes. So I had the pleasure of having ⁓ an incredible guest, ⁓ in Educator Barnes. ⁓ she is somebody that I just think is a phenomenal person. She is ⁓ really, really supportive when we had one of our old shows, A Black Hands, and followed. And you know, you learn more about somebody. She's just an incredible educator, incredible mother. Her kids, her I love her family. Her family is just really great. And just the way and approach she takes to education and literacy and reading, ⁓ she is really one of those souls. ⁓ you I I it's kind of difficult to explain. Like there's a a a category I put my grandmother in because of her soul, right? Like she's just has she says her soul is so given, ⁓ it's so thoughtful, it's so selfless. And you don't really see that in so many people. And I think I I think this woman's soul is right on par with that. So we we end up talking about a lot of things. We absolutely talk about her twin boys who are just phenomenal. We talk about the ways in which she educates. We tackle some things going on in the news today. ⁓ Obviously that whole Dr. Cheyenne Bryant thing is still kinda ruminating through black culture. So, you know, we both took a crack at it with us both being doctors, ⁓ well having doctorate degrees and and just, you know, tried to have that conversation from like a sobering place, like a honest place. ⁓ without ⁓ y you know, I don't need to dog power on the person or or, you know, add to that. I think that that's kind of there, but you know, really breaking things down for the average person that doesn't know what that process is like and why just really breaking down why the reaction from from the community that is that does have a doctorate degree or is going through some type of licensure or has to do it, why they jumped at it ⁓ with the fervor they did, because, you know, if you've gone down this road, some of the things she said, it was just it Y you you can just tell. Like there just there are just instances that we had, like experiences that we had, and and the way that she answered some of those questions is just y y all these things. There is just not too many coincidences ⁓ that that happened out that way. But again, the conversation was much less about her as that person, but it was about, you know. what to look for and why and why that stuff matters. I th all in all, I just think it's a pleasant conversation. So, you know, grab your your tea or your coffee, ⁓ however you listen, whether you listen just audio only or have us on YouTube or Spotify video, you know, hopefully you enjoy it and you feel like you're a part of the conversation. And as always, we need you to share, we need you to like, we need you to comment. And if you're somebody that wants to be on the on an episode, you know, reach out. You know, reach out. And and we can potentially make that happen. We'll get some conversations going. But anyway, ⁓ with no further ado, ⁓ we will we will cut to ⁓ the conversation featuring me ⁓ and Shantae Educator Barnes. ⁓ yeah, enjoy. Peace. Hi, how's everybody out there doing? I'm Dr. Charles Cole ⁓ the third and I'm just very lucky and privileged today to have a colleague, a friend, and somebody that has been very supportive of me and I try to be supportive of them. ⁓ she's a she's she's brilliant, she's incredible. ⁓ we have Miss Educator Barnes with us out of Indiana. How are you doing today? I'm doing all right. ⁓ the weather's kinda shaky, but I'm glad to be here. Well, that's good. Our weather ain't too different. I'm just A little up the road, a few hours away from you. So we tend to to to share weather a lot of the time. But I know you very well and I and I and I tend to talk very highly of you. But can you tell the people a little bit about you? Who you are, what you do, give them your story. Yeah, so most people know me as Educator Barnes. ⁓ that's my public facing education persona. ⁓ through that ⁓ persona and the work that I do I do education writing, I do education consulting. But at the heart of what I do, I'm a parent. So I also try to make sure that parents are also supported by sharing the knowledge that I have from being in the education space as a former English teacher, literacy coach, and school librarian that helps parents really navigate the school setting. to work with students as well. So if it's anything education, I'm in it. And then in my spare time I love to garden ⁓ and read books, which people are. I love that. I like that. My neighbor loves to garden. She our we share a backyard because of the way our house is and I love her. She's she's great. But we have ⁓ we she grows a lot of stuff. She makes me this beautiful pepper sauce. ⁓ it's super hot. It's great. ⁓ out of everything from the garden. It's may God bless you all. I do not have a green thumb at all. ⁓ I do not or the patience. Patience is more important. ⁓ and I don't like bees. You gotta deal with bees when you anyway. ⁓ my own horse. But I'm so happy to be talking to you. I'm gonna have a good time today. And today was the last day of school for your kids. So this is a very timely conversation. And you and I both do some work. I'm not sure if you know. ⁓ You know, talking to parents about things they can do or things they can do on their own, or you know, making sure their kids are ready. What can they do outside of the classroom? So with summer approaching, you have some notes and thoughts that you want to tell parents. So why don't I give you the floor for that? Yeah, so ⁓ for those of you who don't know, I have identical twin sons. They are my only children, and they are 15 and they just finished today their freshman year of high school. ⁓ and throughout the years, each summer, Always try think about what I can have them do. But I also want that them to have a balance because I think sometimes we either are too lax or it's just like a free-for-all, do whatever, or we just are too hard on our kids, and it's like we're trying to make them have school in the summertime. And the summer break is a break for a reason. ⁓ the kids their brains need a break, but they also need to have some connection to learning. Or it makes it that much harder on them when the school year starts. ⁓ and so the number one thing I typically recommend to parents is finding out what your local library reading program is. ⁓ here ⁓ in Indianapolis, our program normally has some little you know, incentive. So read X amount of books, you get to get some prizes and get tickets to that or go do this. So my kids ⁓ we have done that up through part of middle school. ⁓ One summer in middle school, they told me they they were not participating. ⁓ I was just like, What do you mean you tell me you're not participating? ⁓ but they said to me ⁓ that they wanted to keep reading, but they wanted to have some different options. ⁓ so that segue's way into making sure you're having a conversation. As your kids are getting older, they are gonna have some opinions about what you want them to do during the summer, and they need to have some autonomy. Over what they're going to do. So normally with my kids, I start the conversation with like, you're not gonna sit around, eat up all the food in the house, ⁓ and play video games all day. I want you to engage in some type of academics. Here's what I'm thinking about: this is non-negotiable, we can talk about what the terms are. But you're going to have some time every day that you're doing something. So when when you get kids in middle school and high school, it's really important that you have that conversation and give them some autonomy. If there's elementary kids or kids that haven't started school yet, you can ask them, but they may not have enough a lot of feedback about what they ⁓ want to do. ⁓ so one of the things my son said, you know, we we want to choose our own books and we want to be able to listen to audiobooks. ⁓ I'm not actually anti-audiobooks, but In the past, we all just sat down and read physical books, and they're like, You're listening to audiobooks all the time, which is true. ⁓ they're like, we wanna do audiobooks this summer for the most part. I was like, Cool. I got my goal of their sitting down and reading. ⁓ and they got their goal of reading in a way that they were actually gonna do it and not hate it. ⁓ and then I try to have them evolved as my kids got older. Said, like if you want to go and get a job and make money, you can do that as well. And so we talked about what that ⁓ looked like. ⁓ so those are just different things that then there's so much focus on literacy that we forget math. ⁓ so some of the ways we actually tap into some math skills. ⁓ I had my kids cook. ⁓ so ⁓ and I'm like, they got to buy their own recipe book. ⁓ they get to pick their own recipe and they have to understand the directions. And so if your kids don't got those literacy skills, they might not be able to re read a recipe and actually produce something. But with those recipes, I may say, Hey, we're having your cousins over, so I need you to double it. So those are those math skills that are tapping ⁓ right in there. ⁓ and then just getting your kids out to events. We go to so many different just events to learn, whether it's like ⁓ different cultural festivals. So last year we went to an international festival, we went to a Greek festival. ⁓ years past we went to an Italian festival. First of all, we're there for the food. We are definitely there for the food. But also all of those festivals. But all of those festivals have some education component. So now we're there and like ⁓ the the the Greek festival. They had these different dances. So we talked about like the different dances. So now I'm like engaging my kids in some type of critical thinking ⁓ about the dances. And I don't gotta be a teacher to be like, hey, what did you think about that? Do you why why do you think this sort of dance is still popular today in 2025? 'Cause you know, that's when we went to it last year. ⁓ so just ⁓ having those intentional conversations. And then the other thing I would encourage parents to do is just ⁓ do dates with their kids. ⁓ I do ⁓ and you're probably like, well, what does that gotta do with academics? A lot of times that makes a lot of sense to me. But continue, yes. Yeah. A lot of times we don't not get to know our kids well enough to actually guide them. ⁓ we are always talking at them. You need to get these credits. You need to get A's in these class. You need to ⁓ practicing addition so you can win the ⁓ the 100 meter race. But we never actually sit down and get to know like ⁓ so like with my kids sometimes we may be talking about religion how they feel about going to church. We may be talking about politics something that they heard on the news and their friends were talking to them about. We may be talking about the Kendrick and Drake beef. You know, whatever it is out there that they are just like, hey, I want to talk about that. Then that puts me in the seat of like, I'm getting to know my child. I'm not trying to create a person. ⁓ because sometimes we're too busy trying to ⁓ create who we want our children to be instead of helping them grow into who they actually are going to be. ⁓ which leads you to ⁓ that. point where they get 18 where they don't have to choose to keep you in their in their lives. So my goal is like, how do I set you up for success? So you can go out there and get it, you know, on your own. But also if you don't get it and you you fall down, we have a good enough relationship that you can come back and know that I'm gonna support you. So those are some of the things that I have to Let me jump in. Let me jump in with you because you gave a lot. Let's you know and I think and I think that everything is very simple. But it could be a little intimidating hearing it all. Or somebody might be like, Well, I I'm not her. I'm not a teacher. I can't do that. But let me just say a few things back. ⁓ you know, you talked about just this, you know, having an agreement with your young with your kids around, okay, we got a plan for the summer and we're gonna have some balance. You are gonna get to break, you're gonna get to do fun things, ⁓ but I also need this. This is what I need. Two, I am also a strong proponent of audio books. I do both audio and traditional books. ⁓ And I think either I I put them in actually three categories of the physical book, an e-book, and then also audio book, because I think all three are kind of different experiences, and I kind of have all of them. ⁓ and just it sounds like you have conversations with your kids and you put them in situations where they have to converse back, they have to give you and if they have a point to make, then what is your point? And you know, you can we can have this dialogue, we can have this conversation. ⁓ I was telling you off camera. ⁓ yeah, you weren't confusing me at all. ⁓ I I wrote a book called The Agentic Black Parent. And honestly, most of the things you named are in there. So to the degree of learning more about your kids, we do do an activity in there. So we have this this ⁓ this this like twenty page questionnaire that depend on what age the kid is, the parent takes it and the kid takes it. And the questions are things, ⁓ I've done it in trainings live and it's very humbling for parents because especially the parents that are very confident and cocky about how well they know their kids, and then we start to match up answers. So it's like, what's the what's the best environment that my kid feels comfortable learning in? How does my kid respond when he's when he or she is uncomfortable? Or it's it's these questions that a parent, you know, and then we tend to have to spend time with the parent after that, after they see those results. It's like, you're fine, you're good, but it intimates that You know, you're gonna go on this dinner date with your kid, or you're gonna go out with your kid, or y'all gonna go on this walk and just kind of talk and do these things and it's brought people together. ⁓ so I think you laid out a lot of different things there. What what kind of fed your passion around the literacy or working in and out of these schools? And and you're so involved and engaged around these things. How did how did that come to pass ⁓ for Educator Barnes? say ⁓ I didn't really know that I wanted to be an educator to be completely honest ⁓ because I just liked the whole bunch of things. I have always liked a whole bunch of things which probably results in why I do a whole bunch of things now. And so ⁓ I remember taking that this little survey about what do you want to be and And the lady comes back to me, she said, I've rarely seen this happen before. And I was like, Okay. Essentially came across that pretty much I came even across from almost in every single category that was listed. And I said, Well, what does that mean? And the lady said to me, You just essentially need to pick something, and you will probably like it. So I said, Well, what are some of the options? And so one of the options was like building houses. I'm like, Yeah, that. Sounds fun, and the lady started cracking up laughing because I'm like, I can see I would do that. So eventually I lent it into teaching. But what got me to stay was teaching is like it's legacy building and not legacy building for ego sake, not like I influenced all these people. It's like, ⁓ I have left a tangible mark that's made the world better because I was in it, because I ⁓ share my knowledge, and I think people forget as. ⁓ Every person is a teacher. And a lot of times when I say to people like I don't like these kids, I'm like, it's not about children. Everybody has something that they know and knowledge that they know that they can impart to somebody else. I mean everybody is also a student. Everybody has times when you don't know how to do something, and you are the one that's receiving knowledge. And so I Course went into the traditional path of being an actual teacher, but my bigger thing, which is why I go by educator Barnes and not Dr. Barnes, even though I am Dr. Barnes, ⁓ is because I want people to know my whole thing is about education. I want to share the knowledge with you, and I also want to learn with you. ⁓ a lot of the people that follow my work, ⁓ I learn from them, and because they know I like to learn, I would just be randomly somewhere and I'll get an email from somebody saying, Hey, ⁓ educator barnes, I thought You would love this article about blah blah blah. Or maybe you can talk about this, or have you heard about this before? And it's not that they are looking for a shout-out on my social media. They're genuinely like they have picked up the vibe I've been putting down. It's like we all should be out there sharing knowledge that we have with other people, ⁓ and also being humble enough and willing enough to learn from people, regardless of age, status, job. And that's part of the reason I don't like to be called Dr. Mars because I don't want people to feel That ⁓ I'm better than them because I got this degree. I'm not anti-my degree, so don't get it twisted. But I want people to feel like the same Shantae that was talking to you before is the same Shantae that's talking to you now, and you still have something that you can teach me, even though I have earned this. Name. I wanna come back to the doctor thing in a little bit 'cause it's gonna say when to our next topic, but ⁓ you know, you you do have twin boys, identical twin boys, they're very bright. I've seen them and they've come to our you you had them take notes at our show before. I re remember that very fondly. ⁓ but now but they're twins. And I've dealt with twins ⁓ i identical, fraternal. I started my career as a social worker, I've been in education, I've been around a lot of different twins, and especially Pre-pubescent and post-pubescent. And are you experiencing and what I've learned, what I've seen is that two, one of two things tends to happen. They either puberty happens and they either grow closer and are more inseparable, or it's the complete opposite. And I need my space, I need my thing, I need my identity. Where are you all falling with that? And how are you and your, how are you and their father, you know, kind of Y your boys are growing, y'all got two at the same time, that's on the same, you know, but and then you know, people still develop differently. So how are you all in this season of of of post puberty and they they're getting taller, they voice is changing. How's that going? It's it really has ebbed and flowed for my kids, honestly. ⁓ even to the fact of how their disposition is influenced whether we put them together. ⁓ so for like pre-K three, we were together. Pre-K four, we were together for the first semester. Second semester, we were in two different preschools, like in two different locations. Wow. ⁓ kindergarten, we're separated. First grade, we're separated. Second grade, we are back together. Third grade, we are separated again. Fourth and fifth grade, we are together. Then when we went to middle school, they had their classes together, sixth grade, seventh grade they had like seventy-five percent of their classes together, and then for eighth grade they had almost every class but one together. And then we're in high school we had One class together first semester and they didn't like it. They hated it. So second semester, after talking to their counselor, they had like half their classes together. But middle school was very interesting. Middle school is when we hit puberty and we hate each other. ⁓ I they were just going at It was just like you are just your breathing next to me is irritating me. ⁓ so I was like really worried in middle school that they would just not not get along. ⁓ especially that eighth grade year, because I actually reached out to the principal. I was like, he's like there's no way we could have Them could they were in almost every class together but one and they were not exactly getting along. ⁓ but somehow through that eighth grade year, we kind of got ready. So in ninth grade, we're back to this is my best bud, this is my best pal. ⁓ You know, we were hanging out all the time. And my boys have this need. Like, they have their bedtime, but they don't go to bed. They're like old men. It's like, good night, mom, good night, dad. But they have to like debrief. They have to like, they can't go to sleep until they're in their room? They do not. Okay. ⁓ they s funny story about why they end up in separate rooms. We had them in the same room. We even we hadn't even thought about when we want to separate them. But around Age three, Jeremiah kept Yes. Jeremiah, we had an empty bedroom in our house, and he just kept going to sleep in there because I had my old bed from college. And I'm and so Jabe was like, Jeremy left, Jerry left. ⁓ and so Jeremiah's like, I don't want to share a room with him. So we separated them, and James couldn't handle it. ⁓ James kept ⁓ going into the room, ⁓ they kept getting into it, so they actually separated ⁓ way early 'cause Jeremiah's like I just need my own space at at three. ⁓ which is hilarious, ⁓ to me, 'cause we hadn't even thought about we're like, we'll just let them be in their same room and we'll cross that bridge when we got to it. We weren't expecting that bridge to happen at ⁓ three years old but now they got their own separate rooms and what's interesting they have their own rooms but they always in each other's room. So sometimes I'm and our room is in the middle. So they have to go past our room to get to each other's room. I'm just like get in your room get in your own room. 'Cause it's just a lot of Hor horse like it's like horse playing, pushing, shoving. Well that's what boys do. You know? That's what boys do, right? You gotta they gotta exert energy. And here's the thing, sometimes it's just we'll spend time together. Just don't make me spend like let me pick, let me choose, let me have a place of refuge. ⁓ and I and we did find that that one sibling often wanted to be closer and the other one kinda wanted to be further away. But I feel like you and your husband have handled that. I mean listen, I when I say that you all have been the ultimate school boosters, when I say school boosters, what I mean is there's a parent that like supports their kid in school and and knows what the school has going on, but like, okay, the school is doing this. I'm gonna do this here. I'm gonna maximize their learning as much as I can. I'm gonna get in that game. And just, you know, before we switch to our other topic, I think I think you are So well spoken in this stuff. And I I hate that like articulation and well spoken has become like a slur for us because of racist people. But yeah, but but I w I I I want to undo that because it's hard to be articulate sometimes. As somebody who speaks for a living and and both of us have had shows and it takes work to get very clear. And you've obvious it's obviously something that you and I have both worked on in a lot of different ways. What in in in your articulate way? What advice would you have for the parent that maybe doesn't feel worthy or is a little, you know, maybe they don't see themselves as a school rat or or or they feel intimidated ⁓ to get into the learning process of their kids. And they might say, Well, I'm not Dr. Barnes, or I'm not a teacher, or I don't have that type of I don't have it's a lot of different things, you know. I I I I I I am somebody who's a fan of both Educator Barnes and Shantae. How do you what advice would you have for them? You know, let's pull the veil back a little bit and what would you say to them? so they can get in the game a little bit more and just, you know, trying things. Yeah, I think a lot of times parents feel like I can't even engage with my kids because I don't understand. I don't understand the subject matter. I don't understand how they are doing school with this new math and these new literacy standards. I have no clue. But I said the one thing that you can always do is have a conversation and put your child in the lead spot. So, like a lot of times you'll ask your kid, how was school? Fine. Okay. Instead of asking that question, I say, ask a different question, such as, tell me something you learned in school today. Or if you want to narrow it down, tell like my kid is taking, he just ⁓ he was taking chemistry this year. ⁓ what did you ⁓ tell me something you learned in chemistry class today? So now To know any knowledge to ask that question. Right. I'm receiving the knowledge. And if my kid every single day says we didn't learn nothing, then I can be like, let me fall up with the teacher. Because my kid is really saying they're not learning, they're not understanding. But it actually shows that I care about school because I'm asking about school. Because when we just say, How was school? it sounds like you're doing it out of obligation, like it's a obligatory question. And you're not actually trying to see that my kid ⁓ learned something, or sometimes you're I'll ask the question about what is something nice you did for somebody at school today? Because it's also not for me all about academics. I wanna know, are you being a school? Are you being a nice kid or you being a jerk? Like, and then I may ask them What pissed you off at school today? And I can say that to my kids if they're in high school. I would not say that to my five-year-old, right? I would like what made you angry Right, right. I'm gonna use a different term, like what made you angry today? Because that's when your kid may say something like the teacher called me out in front the whole class. You know, something like that. So now you're getting insight without the kid feeling like you're asking them to tattle on somebody. So now you're getting the character piece, who is my kid as a human at school? And then you're You're getting the academic piece because when you start asking those questions, what is happening with your kids like, ⁓ my parents care about this school stuff. I guess, ⁓ I really shouldn't. And then they're thinking about, ⁓ when I come home, they're gonna ask me what nice thing I did today. I might wanna try to be nice today. Or sometimes I was supposed to be You need to report something. I got something I need to have something to report out. Report something. And I tell my boys, like, a one-word answer is not gonna get it. I need you to elaborate and give me some details because I actually care about what's happening at school. ⁓ And so that's that's the the entry point. And then from the information you get, then you can take next steps. But every parent can at least have a conversation. So engage your kids, talk to them, talk talk not not at them, talk to them, talk with them. I think that's beautiful. And again, kudos to you and your husband. I think y'all are doing a magnificent job. ⁓ and and and I think that I I I I'm just glad that you're out here, that you got your your podcast going. I love seeing your post. ⁓ tell people where they can find you too. We should do this a few different times so they can go and support the way that I like to support you. So where where can they be finding you before we go in? And we're not in the conversation. I just want I just people might be looking for you and like, okay, how do I how do I listen to her? Well, if you just essentially look for Educator Barnes, that's on Instagram. ⁓ Facebook if you put it into LinkedIn I will come up as well. I do have a YouTube channel, but I'm not really posting new content on my educator bars YouTube channel. My current Content is on my Blazing Brilliance com channel. So if you go YouTube and put in Blazing Brilliance, you'll get my channel. And what I've been doing is book talks. So if you you're like, I don't know what my kids should read. I've been doing book talks for adults, ⁓ for kids of all ages, and I pretty much since the first day of February have done a book talk a day. So I probably ⁓ currently have 60 some videos up now. I mean all the videos are less they're between 60 seconds and three minutes. So really quick, your kid can watch it. ⁓ you can see a book for them ⁓ to read. ⁓ but yeah, that's where where you can follow me. And if you're like, I want to learn about gardening, because I do a gardening content under another name, ⁓ that's Gardner Shicole. That's S H I C O L E. ⁓ and I and then some people ask me, Well, why do you have two personas? Gardner Shikole. If you have more than two. But continue. Yes, yes, I do. but Gardner Chicole actually came first. Actually, ⁓ that's who I was on the internet. Educator Barnes wasn't even a thing. I became Educator Barnes because of my colleagues. I worked in the school district and I built a website using the school district tools. And then after five years, I left the school and I had to make a new website and I didn't know what to call it. And then my colleague said, Why don't you this like you're like an educator and like educator? Barnes. So like my colleagues kind of came up with that name and then I made a website and that became my public facing persona. So shout out to those middle school English teachers who helped me pick that name. ⁓ but yeah that came second. ⁓ because I wasn't even thinking about putting I didn't want to share education content to be completely honest. ⁓ I didn't want to do that. but people when I was at that particular school district, I found out that school leaders were sharing what I was doing in my classroom behind my back. And I know that sounds horrible and it wasn't horrible, but I didn't know. So I would go to like district wide conferences and people like, ⁓ I I know you do this in your classroom. I'm like Be talking to nobody. Like, how do you know about that? And then a district coach is like, what you're doing is good, you should tell people about it. And that's kind of what got me to start sharing publicly. I'm a really like introverted person. I I just wanted to I was that teacher, I want to come in, teach, and leave. I'm not trying to do the social scene. ⁓ so if it seems like I'm about a little awkward or quirky, that's just how I am in the classroom. Cause That's just that that's just me. But that's how you can follow me, ⁓ and ⁓ get more content, get more information. That will be helpful to you. Well, Dr. Barnes, I like I said, I I I am ⁓ and I say this, I think, you know, when they say people are Midwest nice or things like that, and that like you truly are like the best aspects of what we might what what people might say or talk about are like people that will give you the shirt off their back, especially if it comes down to education or kids and information you've just always been very giving and and and very nice and accepting and I I just wanted to make sure you know that I get you those foul flowers publicly. The other thing too and we you know we were talking about like some of the things that's happening in the world that kind of hit both of our radar and that we both probably didn't want to talk about but we got asked about a lot. And I really want your thoughts. I stopped you in our when we were off camera because I'm like I don't let's not burn the the Let's not burn the podcast. I wanna I wanna hear your reactions in real time. So recently, and I covered this in my last episode a little bit, and I it's Dr. Cheyenne Bryant. ⁓ and I was very careful to not, you know, I don't want to kick her back in. I wasn't trying to dogpall her, but you know, I got questions that people ask, because a lot of people don't know people that have actual doctorates and and and ⁓ and things just didn't sound right. So one, tell me how you became aware of the story and just I just wanna ha we I now I just wanna have a conversation about your reaction and thoughts to it and and we can go back and forth because I'm really curious and interested to to to to hear from you. Don't watch a lot of reality TV or keep up with stuff. So normally I'm behind like when the whole like Kendrick and Drake beef happened, before I can even talk to my kids about it, this is gonna sound like I'm so old. I went online and somebody had written written an article. You went on AOL. I went online and read an article that summarized what the beef was. Because I was like, Why why are they making like what is happening? ⁓ So which my kids said was so lame that they don't understand how I just didn't understand. I didn't so you got some for I I I know hip hop a little. You could you could call me, man. I I got you. You definitely turn on you and your husband right now, but continue. Yeah. Because it was everywhere. Yeah. So I follow ⁓ Doctor, I think it's Ray Quell ⁓ Martin. And she has a Yeah, so she made a video about it. And I was like, hey. So then I'm watching her video and then I'm like, okay, let me go and figure out what is the source of this information. And so that's when I'm like, I'm like, ⁓ Heard of her, she's the one that inter has interviewed these high-profile black men. And and none of those interviews I actually watched because, to be frank, the people she interviewed weren't people I was interested in listening to. And that is no shade to those human beings. It's just not your demographic. You're not their target audience. Right. At what LeVar Burton is saying online. Okay? That's who I've been following. ⁓ If you was interviewing LeVar Burton, I'm there. So this I wasn't into. So she might end up interviewing him. I don't know. She might get one. I don't know. We'll see. So then I went to watch the interview that she had with the lady, and she was just talking about God knows. I was like, ⁓ girl, you a lie. Like you were just a lie. But then what made me frustrated about this situation? I thought about. That she have to we shouldn't be in a situation where she's just now getting exposed. Because she shouldn't have even been able to get the platform to interview people. Some people may be like us and not know what happened. So so what happened? Say say just a reminder people what happened, and then let's go into that. Because I'm I definitely want to go down that line of thought with you. Yeah. So ⁓ from what I had to go research to understand Dr. Martin's video. I got your back. I got your back. She was essentially asked, did she have a doctorate? And like 'cause she goes by Dr. Cheyenne Bryan. And then she was interviewed by another ⁓ a black woman. ⁓ and she was being around the bush and essentially saying she didn't have to answer that question because the only person she reports to is God. And it was just so baffling because doctorates aren't secrets. ⁓ like what what 'cause there's a dissertation that's associated with it. So ⁓ all of the sudden she was saying so then she kinda got exposed and you said you had all of these academics and quite frankly non-academics doing their think pieces about it. Some of it was like serious, like this is taking away from our credibility over here, is making is is taking lightly the work that other people actually done at Tan Doctrine. And then some people were just making fun of her and making those type of videos, and I'm not interested in that at at all. So that's kind of what happened. And I really wanted to write about this, but I decided not to write about it yet because I'm tired of this knee-jerk reaction. I think you probably could relate to this, Dr. Cole, that when something happens, everyone feels like I need to turn on my camera, get on the internet, and write about it. But I think we actually need to sit down, shut up, and think about it. Then come out here and have some ideas about it. Because a lot of people, I Remember, I went to like Instagram and typed her name in, and you can just scroll the videos. I'm like, you 10 people said almost bar for bar the same thing. I don't even think this is your actual thought. You just resummarize what someone else said. So, what do you think inside of your brain? ⁓ which is why I didn't write anything about it online because I'm like, I really wanted to sit here and chew ⁓ this information before I even said something about it. You know what? Don't I'm gonna tell you a ⁓ a show I did. That I had that I almost did before building color commentary. And it was gonna be tell me your thoughts before the internet. And the concept was: before you look online and you see how social media, what the wave, what do you think in a vacuum, before you wanna be, you know, on team A or B, what do you actually think? ⁓ but I ended up going with color commentary where the concept is the facts are gonna be black and white, the news. Walter Concrite, no, here's the news. It's like a trusted thing. And then I will offer my color commentary. But and you could tell because in the show, the black and white segments in black and white, and then the part that's in color are my thoughts and my opinions, so you can discern. But yeah, so so we so we saw this, and there was a little bit more to the story. So let me I got you. I I got you. So what what it was, so again, she's doing Nick Cannon, she's done ⁓ you know, Cam Newton and those both of those guys have, you know, a lot of kids in in the world. And again, I also think that conversation's a little different when you have a whole bunch of money and that's what you want. Like Eddie Murphy loves kids. Eddie Murphy's really rich. Eddie Murphy can do that. ⁓ and congratulations to Eddie Murphy and Martin Lawrence for welcoming their grandchild. You know their kids have gotten married and have kids and they're like brothers. It's just really cool. Like that's a I think that's pretty cool. I I I like seeing them joke with who was paying for the wedding. So They just had their first grandkid. ⁓ not their first, but you know, to you know, they they share a grandkid. But she went on those places and you know, and she did decent, right? Like, and she got a she was, she presented well, she was cogent, ⁓ and she said things that I think kind of hit the zeitgeist. So she's rolling, she's doing other shows, and she did some women too. She did the Beat and Simone show as well. But same, similar crowd, like, right? The the lady, the female version of those other crowds in some ways, right? And she went to Joe Budden. And what it was was ⁓ she mentioned something about a client and somebody on the couch said, Hey, aren't you not supposed to do that? ⁓ you know, when you're licensed, she's d and and they said she said, I'm not licensed. Licensure is really just for ⁓ you know, ⁓ insurance purposes. That's that's what rung the alarm bells for people. And people like Dr. Raquel and other people that do this are like, time out, this sounds crazy. You sound wild. And then a few Google searches, and then they start pressing her. and then it kind of, you know, she started to trip herself up. She started to say things. So for instance, she said, she said my doctoral degree, which we're like, yeah, that ain't really that. ⁓ and here here's here's what I thought about it about it, right? She reminded me, remember Rachel Dolezal? yes, I do remember all about that one. So, so, but here's the thing, right? And you know, Chris Stewart interviewed Rachel ⁓ on his show before. And the thing is, it's like it was a joke, and it was like, what are you bugging, right? And my thing was, and I think a lot of people's thing was, yo, when you step back and she got exposed and all this stuff, she actually was doing a lot of Dope stuff for black, like she really was doing dope stuff for black people. It's the you saying you're black part, right? Like you could have, you know, maybe and and and to be fair to her, maybe she wouldn't have been able to be the president of NAACP at the time or do certain things, but she actually was doing good stuff. And I think with Dr. Cheyenne Brian, it's like she's very careful now to say, I'm a life coach, I'm this, where you don't need those credentials. And if you came into the game saying that. You don't, you're not really, but you branded, she overindexed on doctor. Like she has a beautiful, she has this blinged out chain that says doctor. Like the brand is doctor. She trademarked doctor, like Brian, you know. And so, you know, now you're just kind of seeing her where it's like, you actually might be really good at this in some ways, but you're like caught in this lie. And then that now people want to pull up transcripts. And now they're well, what schools did you go to? ⁓ The master's is from the University of Phoenix. The doctor is from Argosy. And again, I'm not a snob in that way. Like, get it how you get it. But there are people, I mean, I got my degrees come from state schools, right? I didn't go to Harvard or Princeton. I went to CSH, California State University schools. But now they're like, ⁓ wait a second. Now you went to like a, you know, you went to a diploma farm and you probably just didn't finish. And I think the lie is just digging deeper and deeper. I think. At this point, I think the book publisher has started to put pressure because she's on a book. That's the other thing. She's doing all these interviews because she's on a book run. She's on a book tour. Right. And I think the publisher, I don't know, I don't want to, I I it hasn't been verified ⁓ if they're offering refunds or whatever the case is, but it's not going well for her. And I have some mixed feelings, right? I have feelings of I don't really need to kick somebody's back in. I I see I see Charlotte's on the internet every day. I see people hustling every day. If you go on TikTok. You can't get past five scrolls with somebody selling magical snake oil. Like we have snake oil salesmen. Right. And I do think on some ways she does do some uplifting things for certain people. So, but it's like it's it's it's so clear that you didn't finish this thing or go through it. And it's like, you know, I'm like, does it hurt my status? Does it hurt, you know, it it's I listen, I have people that have just flat out told me they didn't believe I was a doctor. They thought that I was lying. They thought I made up my website. And when I think about those experiences because of where I come from or how I talk or who I am, you know, I I I I expect the backlash because a lot of people can't envision it. ⁓ but for you as a sister, you know, and you seeing it, like, I had complicated thoughts about it. I I I mean, and and some people don't have complicated thoughts at all. Some people are very clear both ways. Now there's you know how the internet works. A lot of people have been anti her, so now there's a whole tribe of people that's like, hold on, y'all don't come at white people, y'all don't say this to other people, y'all don't da da da da da da da da da da da. So, like, where where do you feel like you fall and like and if she did see this, she won't. I'm not we're sh but if but if she did see it and hear from you, that we are two doctors, right? Like we have gone through our thing. I'm an EDD, I think you're PhD, right? I'm EDD as well. You're EDT, okay, hey. Shout out to us EDD folks. And and and then look, and and Umar had to go through this, but the difference with Umar is Umar was like, no, I have a side D. You can read my dissertation. It's right here. And then people had to be like, well, I just don't like you, right? Like, so so, but with with this situation, I'm I'm just curious from your perspective. Cause I I want to know your perspective as a sister, and then I'll give you I'll give you a very honest perspective as a man. And and I think I think that I think it could be a ⁓ Interesting conversation because I think there are things that's going unsaid. ⁓ and and maybe we'll be one of the shows that says it. So I'm I'm curious for you. My biggest issue is that she shouldn't have never been able to get that far saying that she was Dr. Cheyenne Bryant. ⁓ and this hits me at the heart of being an English teacher because that's what I did for a really long time. And I talked to my students about reputable sources. And I feel like every few months on my platform I talk about. How do you identify a reputable source? And I'm not just talking about like to go on your paper. How do you know the person is selling actual stuff that works or selling snake oil? How do you know the person is who they are? Because there are so many people online claiming they are doctors and whatever. They have a doctorate, right? But they're talking about something else that they don't have a doctorate in. Yes, I'm an expert in a very niche, small part of information. Right. And that's what people don't understand, even about doctors, even medical doctors. That even within the medical field, they are very niche fields that they are can be in. And so I think there's a misunderstanding with the general public of what is a doctorate. It means you're an expert in a very, very small. My dissertation was about literacy rich STEM experiences out of school ⁓ with ⁓ Focus on girls with a subfocus on girls of color. That is a very, very, very, very niche pocket. And every person's dissertation is under a bigger umbrella. My bigger umbrella was literacy, culture, and language, but I dove down into that. So if people understand that, their first question before they see somebody who claims they're a doctor is like, What is your doctorate in? What are you a doctor of? And then what are you doing based on what? You are because that's easy to find. ⁓ you know, if you went to the internet and put in Dr. Charles Cole, the third name, you'll find his dissertation. You put in Shantae, Chicole, Stockton bars, it's all in ProQuest. They made us pay to put it in there. Yeah. So if you can't find somebody's dissertation, even if a university or school closes, it is still searchable and available. You can find it. Our dissertations don't poof into thin air. So my friend. First issue is just with the public ⁓ being bamboozled. Like a little bit is on us by believing people. If I'm listening to somebody and I'm about to take their advice, my first thing I do is look up who they are. And then I use that to take advice. But then my second part is kind of what you said said about this is a woman who has a skill set. She's like that charismatic preacher who might be a better off. Y you you probably think he got something else going on outside of the first lady doing some stuff that's probably not ethical. But you know, he is reaching people, he is charismatic, and that's what I find with her. I mean, if you look at her, she's a very pretty and attractive woman. ⁓ and we don't like to say that people who look pleasing to the eye may get some type of advantages, but they do. We we see first with our eyes. ⁓ so you got that. And I and it's it brings me back to our education conversation of licensed teachers versus unlicensed teachers. Cause we get that whole conversation all the time. Think people care as much if there's an unlicensed teacher who is proficient as long as the teacher isn't lying about having a license. Yeah. The issue comes when you are lying. Because then it's like, why would I want advice from a life coach who's a liar? Right. Like that says to me that you got something internally messed up. But then to your point, if I expose this lie, I am now. losing potential clientele. I'm losing potential brand deals or arrangements already in. But sometimes you gotta pin on your big girl panties and e crow and just fess up to it, especially when all the evidence is right there to prove ⁓ that you're lying. So ⁓ I think she has a skill set. ⁓ I didn't watch her interviews with Cam or Nick Cannon because I'm not interested in you don't need to Men who just want to seem to spread their scene for the sake of spreading it. I'm not interested in that. But that's kind of where I have landed. And then as a person ⁓ who has so many certifications, ⁓ Four teaching licenses, plus a school administrator license, plus my undergrad, my master's, and my doctorate. And I've had j yeah, I've had jobs and every single thing I've held a license in. There's a part of me that's like, How dare you? How dare you act out out be out here acting like you put in the literal hours that we had to put in? But then again, I have to think to myself, that Is banking it seems to be to us. So who am I to shut down what you're doing? Just tell the truth. So I think my biggest issue is like you are you're lying. Just tell the truth. If she would tell the truth and be like I'm a life coach, ⁓ I would not care. I could care less. What I think happened and I and I'm with you on what I think happened is I think she started it. I think she just didn't finish. She might be A B D. For th for you those that don't know, it's all but dissertation. Which and a lot of people are. And sometimes instead of finishing their like especially it's a little easier in in E D D land, because you can be EDS. Like it's like you don't finish or whatever the case is. And and look, there's sides, there's nursing like there's so many different profess like there's a lot of different ways. I I I I agree with you. I I think ⁓ and and that was that was my response. You asked how did she get so far? I think it's a few things. I think it was a perfect storm of things. I think there's this notion of wanting to root for this woman, especially if you're a brother, right? And I and I get it, I get where those guys were coming from because if you're getting criticized constantly that your platform may be chauvinistic or whatever, focus on this, and then you see this beautiful, talented woman that you're gonna let kind of go at you, but you're kind of rooting for her. You're like, okay, cool. Like and because they regard even with what She did with them, they could have all been like, I'm not airing this, right? But they were kind of rooting for her. I think people wanted to root for her. She is not hard on the eye, she's a beautiful woman. ⁓ and she talks, she doesn't sound super clinical. Like, I know, like you, you know, I know how sometimes people can be very professorial. Like, whether you like or dislike Jordan Peterson, like he talks, he sounds very prescribed, like a professor who's been in a pr lecturing for 25 years. years like you know I one thing that I'm a joke that I make about professors and I I I've offered services to help some is like let me do your slides because you you are super smart but your slides are so dense that nobody can like grab it. So when you take these topics about mental health about relationships and you put it in the context of a Nick Cannon or a Cam Newton that actually does take a skill set. ⁓ It takes a skill set in certain ways. But I I agree with you. Honestly, I think if she was just like, listen, here's the thing. This is what like I just didn't finish. But you know what? This is what I'm doing. And I understand if some people are not gonna rock, but this is what I'm doing. And honestly, I think people, I think we are more forgiving, especially black people, than people like to give credit for, right? Like if you just kind of like, I I F that up. That was my fault. But that because now I can connect with why you did it. I can connect. I've been homeless. I grew up homeless. I grew up poor. Like, I know people, I have people that are friends that I care deeply about. And I don't condone this, but they used to sell drugs or they've been to jail or they've done these things. And it's like, you know, you gotta kinda pay that out. But that's how she got through it. And I think I it was always gonna be a sister that that was that that exposed it. It was always gonna be some woman that was working very hard to get none of that credit. None of that look. And to be like, and now now we're going back and looking through all your stuff now. Now we're looking at everything and like, wait, that's you you can't say that. Like, that's you nobody with a doctorate would say that thing. And and and again, if you are trying to cover something up, talk less, not more. Because Yeah. Talk less. Because it's like when they asked her about her stuff and then it's two year record and it's held here, it's like. Let's say all that is true. Let's say they lost everything. Let's say the place burned to the ground. Let's say Trump put his name on it. Let's say all this stuff. I can produce a dissertation. I can tell the way that you rattle. My dissertation was focused on black males who became doctors that grew up highly impacted by the crack epidemic. And I wanted to study from the cradle to right now how they did it. ⁓ is very clear to me. I know my research questions, like, because I had to live in it for so long. Right, right. I had to be so insane. And the thing that people don't understand about the dissertation writing process, you go in very, you know, a lot of times you go in very strong on something, and all it does is just create more doubt for you. You're like, ⁓ like I had I didn't become a more super confident person. I'm became after I became Dr. Cole, I just was like, I'm very ignorant to a lot of things in the world because the other things that a doctoral program does for you is it shows you how to question things, how to research how to read things and also how to read things that you disagree with. So that literature review piece that you have to do, right? You might feel I might feel very sure about racism in America, but I gotta go read so many texts that were people that I don't agree with that's like there's no racism. Like there is no right. And and and I gotta be able to dismantle that argument with other arguments. It's a process that doesn't just leave you. but I'm also not snooty about it. I I'm like you Well, I don't make people call me Dr. Cole. And but I did get checked. I got checked by an elderly black woman because I like to do these talks at at churches. ⁓ I was doing one of my trainers. I was actually doing a training on the agentic p black parent book. And I said, just call me Charles. I don't really And she said, No, no, baby, that's that degree don't just belong to you. That's that's ours. That's that's that that belongs to us. You're a part of us and you represent us. And I think that is partially how she did do that, right? Because People want to see themselves reflected. They want to see like, yeah, you can be a doctor and you can have a nice chain and you can sound and look like this. And you can, I know how that feels because I know how important it was for me to be very authentic when I went through my process. So I mean, so again, I didn't want to kick her back in. Like, you know, I might have like a it's because she's doubling down so much that I think people are gonna keep coming. And look, God bless you. And maybe, and look, and we could be completely wrong. Maybe maybe maybe she's the one person and it did go that way. Maybe the program wasn't very rigorous and you know, there are some E D D programs and I hate I hate this that are playing with the idea of getting rid of the dissertation. I think that would be a grave mistake. I think you have it's a process you have to go through. It's just Yeah. And there's one that exists ⁓ here in Indianapolis, ⁓ because I got ⁓ there's a I'm not gonna name the college, but I did ⁓ My ⁓ I just took some classes there for my admin license, and those classes were phenomenal. And at the time they were thinking about adding an education doctorate ⁓ to their program. So I was between going to this particular university and then IU Bloomington, which is the one I eventually graduated from. The reason I didn't go to the other one because they did like a a capstone project instead of a dissertation. And the number one thing I know people ask, because I some fangirls, that's what I call them. ⁓ well ⁓ who have actually read my dissertation like people on the internet that I do not know who read my dissertation. I turned mine to a book so that that also helped too but yeah. And I'm like I don't want I don't feel like I Did a doctorate program if I did not write a dissertation. So I would encourage anyone who's watching this who's even considered to not do those programs because in the world of academia, ⁓ whether you're a snooty academic or a non-snooty, and I really try to be non-snooty, you're not learning all the things you really need to learn about how. Clearly interrogate. And most doctors who are humble, we're like, you find out how much you don't know. Like I left that doctorate program knowing a lot about a little bit, a lot a few things, but then questioning a whole bunch of other things that I thought I knew. Exactly. And same, same here. Like again, I'm not, I don't stick my chest out on as much. I'm like, well, I have to do a lot of reading. I gotta go look. I gotta, I need to check on these things. And I think and and and and I I agree with you, man. And so for her. I don't want anything ill bad to happen to this woman. I again maybe I'm just a softy in that way. Like I think that I think you've caked up. I think that if you've made a lot of fast money, I don't know how sustainable it's gonna be. I think she has to get that ship back right so she can continue to do what it is that she's doing. ⁓ but it's it's it's really interesting. And I do think that there is some truth to, you know, I watched what Dr. Umar went through. There there's there's white charlatans out out this joint as well. And I and somebody will say, well. You know, about about Dr. Umar, listen, I'll say this about Dr. Umar. He and I both study ⁓ Dr. Juwanza Kunjufu. ⁓ he's he's I don't know, are you familiar with Kunjufu? I I was, you know, I'm a big fan of him. ⁓ we we I wanted to do some church talks with him. He passed away in the middle of ⁓ of ⁓ that was coming up, you know. But what Dr. Umar, I know I can directly credit him for a lot of parents is parents that have boys that have been d misdiagnosed and put into special education. I've seen I've seen mothers listen to him, do what he asked, and go and like change their kids' status, right? I've seen that kind of change happen, right? So again, I may not agree with every single thing he says or everything he does. I don't know when the school is actually gonna start. I don't that ain't my business. So I don't, I don't, I don't have a thing in me to go after mine, but I do think it's important for us We have to protect the thing that we work to get. Like my dad is in my dad is a Marine. My uncle is a Marine who fought in Vietnam and my brother's army. If they catch you false flagging, if you say, you know, like I was in the Vietnam War and you weren't there, if you say I served and and it's just a bond that those people have, it's a bond that those people went through. Like you know, my brother and my uncle both lost people. My brother did two tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. And my uncle did Vietnam. My dad didn't have to he I think he just went to like Korea or something, like, you know, just to be stationed. But they take that very seriously. And so I felt on some level I gotta take it somewhat seriously to protect so this thing doesn't lose all its value. You know what I'm saying? But at the end of the day, outside of that, I'm not really I don't really care too much. I think that's the issue was like kind of like that counts council culture mindset. People want harm to come to people because they did something. And I'm like, I don't need harm to come to the lady. Just be honest. Figure out because in my mind, I have a friend right now who's at the all but dissertation. Who's like, I don't know ⁓ you know, if I want to continue this or do this. I have another friend who is almost through the dissertation, doesn't know they want to finish it or not. They're gonna be so mad if they don't. Tell people like you can say that. And I remember before I even wanted to get a doctorate, people started calling me DB, ⁓ Dr. Barnes. Yeah, don't call me. And I was Don't call me, don't call me that, don't call me that. But I remember it was an old black custodian. He was like, We naming it, claiming it right now. So I'm like, even if she came out and said, I'm calling myself Dr. Cheyenne Brian, I'm trying to speak into existence, but I'm not, I haven't finished the program yet. I think the most of it's bit like okay sis we root you on finish that program but just to keep doubling down and lying while also saying you're being a life coach ⁓ it's and then also to what Dr. Martin pointed out We want to make sure that people who have serious issues are seeing people who are licensed. ⁓ so and I do get like the pushback from because like with me, I have an education degree. But I can't but that's not the same as getting my license and education. And I think people forget it's degrees and licenses. So I think that's the other thing that's probably getting lost in the conversation. It's not just her doctorate per se, it's also do you have a license to do this work as well? Yeah, and I mean, and listen. And and in in our world, and I'm not gonna downplay, you know, us in education, but you know, there's subs, there's emergency credential, and there's there's a shortage right now. And honestly, there's not a real educational malpractice category to that to that degree. When you're talking about medical stuff, you're talking about people that's you're you're coaching people, and and some people did think that you were a therapist, you know, a licensed therapist. People are making life decisions, they're leaving husbands or They're doing things. It's like, like, if you go to somebody that that is a psychiatrist, like, and they can actually give out medicine, like, do you no no no? We somebody has to be able to hold you accountable. I was on a hospital board for six years. Like, when they mess up, those people, because they are licensed doctors, like they have to go in front of their peers. They have to re-go through everything. And as a board member, it was very clear, if you if we have to make a decision as a hospital, okay. Now, Dr. Barr, you're you're a medical doctor in this, right? There's a malpractice case against you. So you gotta come and you gotta present to 30 of your peers, and then I'm as a board member. And then if we deem like, nah, this was malpractice. You're on your own. Like you you that's why doctors have to have malpractice insurance. You not having board certification. There's no entity or body that can hold you accountable. That's why if you're a lawyer, which is a jurispruden is a ⁓ jurisdoctorate is that's what a J D is. You still have to pass the bar and you still have to go when you go to a different state, you have to do things because if you mess up, they can call they can call those people and and and then those people can be like, hey, you you you not you can't do this anymore. And so again, I think more so less about her, but I think this conversation was good just for the general public around why people might be reacting in that way. or what's going on. Now again, the woman is talented. The woman can talk in front of a camera. The woman can go and she does look good and she's using it. I'm not saying I have no I have no value. I'm not making a value call good, bad or whatever. It's just like you said, the facts, the facts are the facts. You know what I'm saying? People wanted to see you do well. They wanted to root you on. and now, you know, and and what comes with success is people start digging and they start looking. And and it comes with that. So anyway, I I thought it was an interesting conversation. And I'm and I think you and I have very similar temperaments as it as it comes to that. If I saw her and I and I was able to speak to her, I would just be like, look, look, there might be some things happening that I don't know, or whatever the case is. But honestly, in today's age where where Trump is president, I don't I've seen a lot of wild stuff. Like I would say something else, but as you won't hear, but I've seen a lot of wild stuff. I think you can come back. Like, I don't I I think you know, they they they look some some news, some Netflix or Hulu will be like, hey, ⁓ you wanna we can we can do your reality redemption show. We can do that, right? Like, and you're right back in there. You know what I mean? Cause the one thing that people they love to tear you down, but they do also love a redemption story. but I do think that there's a lot of punishment happening to her now. I think I That mental anguish of that stuff is probably something that I wouldn't wish on anybody. So you know, and at the end of the day, it's not my business, but as as a professional that's worked for this stuff, and look, and people s some people ⁓ will poo-poo on what we got, right? Well, y'all not PhDs, y'all not this, you know, and it's and that comes with it. It is what it is. The same way Priston and Harvard people try to dunk on each other or whatever, right? Like there's always gonna be this level that you're trying to get to, but Dr. Barnes, Educator Barnes, Shantae, you have been so fun, such a pleasure. ⁓ is there anything else you want to cover or you want to say or anything you want to ask me? Whatever the case is, ⁓ before we end this, the floor is yours. ⁓ and I just want to say this again. You are welcome back here anytime. ⁓ you are such a pleasure to have. ⁓ and if you need I would love to come on whatever platform you host and what you do if you'll have me. No pressure. You don't have to. I'm just letting you know. ⁓ that I'm just a phone call away, but the floor is yours. Like any any what you know before we go out, anything else you got? I think the last thing I would just say to parents is just just try. ⁓ you're gonna make a mistake as parents. ⁓ I make mistakes every single day. Sometimes I feel like every hour I'm annoying my kids somehow. ⁓ but just try. ⁓ just try and then if you want to hear more, I just started a second podcast called Parenting is an action word where we're talking about parenting. So if you're interested in just following that, ⁓ you can just put it into Google. ⁓ it'll come up and like the first episode just came out ⁓ yesterday and our next episode will be out next Wednesday. ⁓ so yeah, that's all I say. Just educator Barnes. You go. I will I will go find it, I will go promote it, I will go comment on it. ⁓ and and after you read, after you I mean the the Agentic Black Parent is a is an ebook. I made it f it's free. ⁓ it's a quick to go through and you'll see the stuff after you read it. If you like it, you know, I would love to come on and ⁓ talk about that. Or one of the things I was trying to do, which we might be able to do together, I started taking in questions. I always get a lot of questions from parents around advocacy stuff, and then I will workshop it on air. ⁓ kind of fits more of what you got going on over there. But as I get some of those, if I get some good questions, I'll pass them off to you as well ⁓ to get you some more material. But Dr. Shantae, you've been incredible. thank you for the jewels. Thank you for being you. And don't don't lose that spark, man. I'm telling you. It's like I see the LeVar Burden kind of influence a little bit, like on some of the stuff. You got a very reading Rainbow-esque vibe that goes on over there. I miss Reading Rainbow. ⁓ I think didn't the show when the show's supposed to be getting rebooted with the ⁓ the other librarian guy? ⁓ Mike, Michael Threats. ⁓ he's the one that's ⁓ hosting and all the Did they do it though? I remember them talking about it. I haven't seen anything. Yeah, like you can go online to see what they ⁓ have been doing, and then I believe PBS had hired them, hired him as their resident, like librarian. So, yeah, follow him. And LeVar Burden is still doing literacy stuff, and ⁓ he I know there's no new episodes of his podcast, LeVar Burton's podcast. But if you're a kid like me, so reading Rainbow started the month before I was born, so I have never existed in a world without reading rainbow. I just love to say that. But if you're one of those Reading Rainbow kids like I was and you just love LeVar Burton, don't listen to the episode of his podcast where he's just reading stories to us as grown-ups. ⁓ so yeah, I've always gotta I gotta promote something literally. That's in the p is is Reading Rainbow for me, is ⁓ Mr. Rogers Neighborhood, Sesame Street. I mean, there's that Pantheon. You gotta bring, I mean look, I I don't have l kids, especially small ones, so I can't fully hate on Bluey and and and all this other stuff that's kind of been made to be fast and bright, to just take kids that you know that that's in tablet land. But ⁓ I do wish that we would build that temperament back to bring to bring that type of programming back. ⁓ it's been so great. ⁓ and and we will have you again. I hope to have you again. Thank you so much. You all have been listening to color commentary. I'm Dr. Charles Cole third. That's Dr. Barnes, ⁓ but educator Barnes. She you know, ⁓ and go check her out. And we'll see you all next time. Peace.