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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: It's like what a practice would be, imagining
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positive futures for our hearts and souls. I need
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to get my compost to the bin.
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>> Autumn Brown: I need to do something that corrects the current
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reality. Right?
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Yeah.
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>> Autumn Brown: Welcome to Climate Changed. I'm Autumn Brown.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: And I'm Reverend Nicole Dieroff. Thank you for
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joining us, for our continued conversation about
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climate fiction.
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>> Autumn Brown: For you listening, we love to hear from you. If in
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this conversation something stirs in you or
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inspires an idea or story, you can always email or
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leave a voice message for Nicole and me. I'll
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share those contact details later in this episode.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: In the last episode of Climate Change, Autumn
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spoke with Tory Stevens. Tory is a storyteller,
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cultural worker and climate justice advocate who
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co founded Imagine 2200, a climate fiction
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initiative at Grist. They talked about the
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prefigurative power of storytelling, the beautiful
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concept of thrutopia, and why the climate movement
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desperately needs more imagination to ground us
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today. Here's a brief excerpt of what Tory had to
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say.
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>> Tory Stephens: Do you know this term thrutopia?
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>> Autumn Brown: No.
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>> Tory Stephens: Thrutopia comes from the UK and the idea is that
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you're showing us on the way to a better world,
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but we haven't tackled or changed everything.
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There's a problem, here's the solution, but we're
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showing how we get through that moment, as opposed
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to utopia, where it's just everything is like,
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better and we're showing the full, abundant world
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that we're all living in, which is fine. We
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publish those stories too. But I think more of the
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stories that we're publishing are this term of
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thrutopia, where not everything's been solved.
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There's still interpersonal relationships where
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people are living in community with each other.
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Even in social justice communities where people
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are in right relationship with each other, there's
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still going to be hard decisions to make. A good
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story that I can could give as an example around
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this is a story called Seven Sisters. There's
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these women who are working on a tea farm in a,
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collective kind of space farm that they, you know,
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make collective decisions on. A few of their
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drones go down. They have to make this choice
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between picking the tea on their own by hand,
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which is very labor intensive. And at the same
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time they're having like, money issues so they
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can't fix the drone while they're contemplating
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this issue. And their buyer, who is also one of
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the folks that live on the farm, is in Brazil. In
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Brazil, they had had a flood and there's a family
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that is displaced. This woman introduces the idea
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that she wants to bring this woman and her baby
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into the collective they have this discussion
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around. I don't know if we should, like, bring
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another human into our collective, but there's a
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few people that are like, no, we have to do this.
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Turns out that the woman who they bring into the
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farm can also fix drones, so
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>> Autumn Brown: that's beautiful. Wow.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: In this episode, Autumn will join me to talk about
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some of the themes and challenges around climate
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fiction that Tory raised. And if you're just
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joining us, welcome. It's not necessary to listen
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to the conversation with Tory before listening to
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this episode. In fact, listening to our
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reflections first will offer you a unique
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perspective on that previous conversation. Later
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in the episode, Autumn and I will also share some
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next steps you can take, including how you can
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share your own vision for the future right here on
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our show.
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Let's dive in.
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>> Autumn Brown: Nicole, I'm so excited to be in conversation with
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you about my conversation with Tory.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Totally. Oh my gosh. I loved listening to that
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conversation and it was such a pleasure to get to
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hear the two of you. I've been working with Tory
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for a little bit. What you surfaced from him was
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so good. So good.
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>> Autumn Brown: I'm so glad. I'm so glad. One of the ways that he
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identifies in his work is as like a network
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weaver. And so it was sweet to kind of think about
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the sort of different tendrils of the network
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reaching across each other that you and Tory had
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been doing all this work together. And then I plug
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into the network totally with this particular
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role. And then of course, I learned afterwards
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that my sister Adrienne was one of the first
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judges in the first imagination 2200 year of the
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contest.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Woo hoo.
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>> Autumn Brown: And so. Right. So, I mean, so many connections. So
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many beautiful connections. I was so appreciative
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to get to start our climate changed conversations
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with this particular interview. Because the role
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of imagination and storytelling in my own life has
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been such a powerful part of my work. And I've
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seen, I've personally been able to see and witness
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what gets unleashed in people as a result of
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engaging in the activity of world building
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together. It was so interesting talking to Tory
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about all of this. You know, obviously I'm coming
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in with a particular interest in this conversation
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in how. How is culture and how is spirituality
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specifically represented in the worlds that are
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being built? Yeah, it was interesting to hear Tory
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really name directly how one of the problems that
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he has identified in the world of people who are
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writing climate fiction and science fiction in
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particular, but climate fiction generally is that
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so often the World building doesn't take into
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account the actual internal worlds of the
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characters which are made out of their cultural
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and spiritual practices. And I was thinking how.
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Oh, that's actually, actually so reflective of
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: the time that we're in. Yes, yes, totally. It kind
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of, Well, I will say it broke my heart a little
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bit because it is the piece that I think the BTS
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center is tending to so much is what is happening
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to our hearts and our souls right now and really
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what is the vision for our hearts and our souls?
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Yeah, I was like, Tory's gotta have a whole stack
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of stories to pass on to me that, you know,
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elucidates that and maybe he doesn't. So we gotta
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create em. We gotta create em, I guess is what it
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means.
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>> Autumn Brown: Yes, exactly. And it was, it was interesting to
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notice that the connection that he was drawing
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around the absence of cultural, spiritual,
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cultural ways, practices from a lot of the climate
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fiction he was reading, the connection he made
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between that and our commitment to an addiction to
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dystopian narratives that in order to imagine, you
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know, he brought in that lens of the thrutopia,
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the sort of imagining, how are we, how are we
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making it through to the next phase? That part of
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how our capacity to imagine a thriving future.
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There seems to be an answer there that's about our
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ability to narrate an internal world that supports
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meaning making. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: The ending note of the conversation as we heard
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it, where you were talking about stories as
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serving to doula our meaning making. That comment
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really sparked for me as I started to reflect on
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the many ways the BTS center has been engaging
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with fiction and with imagination. This has been a
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real centerpiece of our work and like every
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program we do for the past many years. And
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sometimes I wonder, well, why that focus? What is
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that about? And I think it is this, this doula, to
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meaning making stories have been and are for faith
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communities and spiritual leaders. So grounding in
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how we understand our situation. And to only go
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into the stories of the ones that are fear
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inducing, to maybe make us act or something, maybe
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is why we go into those. It does something
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different to our hearts than going into these
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stories where we actually are saying this is the
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world we want. And yeah, we, we are seeing
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signposts or we have a sense that in some ways
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what we're headed towards is also something
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ancient. You know, we always talk about it as new,
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but I sort of, the more I think about it, the more
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it feels like an ancient way of being.
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I wanted to bring in a quote from a academic
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article written by one of our research advisors,
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Susie Mosher. And in this article, she's talking
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about leadership in times of environmental
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devastation and what it means to be a climate
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leader. and she talks about a deliberate practice
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of visioning in the face of unraveling will be a
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critically important practice. And I think this is
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why the BTS center makes space for this. Because a
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lot of people, a lot of leaders, this is like,
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maybe they can appreciate that this in theory
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would be a good idea, but like actually doing it
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is, can be harder to come by. And I wonder if this
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is true in your kind of artist oriented world as
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much as it is in my religious leader oriented
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world. But I would say for religious leaders,
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yeah, it's kind of a push to get together and say,
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we're gonna spend this next bit of time visioning
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and imagining. Tory I've gotten to know actually
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the best because we decided to do a workshop with
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him for preachers. And so we had a room full of
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preachers online, and Tory and his colleagues at
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Grist led us through creating Dream Seeds and
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talking about them and looking at one another's
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Dream seeds. and, we ended this workshop. I mean,
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my heart, I think, was beating faster with
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actually like a sense of there's so much
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possibility just around the corner. And I mean, I,
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I love doing good work day in and day out. But
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like this feeling in my heart was different than
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some other, some other things that we activate. So
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I really think Susie is right. We need a
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deliberate practice of regularly visioning
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positive futures. And I know religious leaders, I
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know religious leaders would really, really
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benefit from it.
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>> Autumn Brown: I have a question for you about that, Nicole,
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because I heard you say that the BTS center,
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there, there was a certain point, it sounds like
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in the history of the center where there was a
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kind of clear decision made to start centering a
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practice like this. And now, now there's this
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focus on narrative as a part of all of the work
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you all are doing. You know, I, think there's a
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lot of things that our individual communities do
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that are. There's plenty of things that are not
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replicable, but there's plenty of things that
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actually are replicable. And it might be helpful
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to, you know, the listener out there who is trying
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to figure out how do I integrate visioning
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practices into my community. It actually might be
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helpful to that person to hear a little bit of the
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story of how and why the BTS center made that
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shift. So I wonder if you could tell a little bit
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of that story of why did the BTS center start
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centering, visioning or fiction or narrative as a
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part of the practice? And how could a listener
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potentially replicate that in their own community?
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: What's funny? Imagination came first. Climate
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change came second. M. So the BTS center adopted
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its mission before adopting its focus on
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spiritual, leadership for a climate changed world.
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So. And it is actually this mission statement that
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made me want to work for this organization. It's
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actually really like, it is really important to
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me. Our mission is to catalyze spiritual
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imagination with enduring wisdom for
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transformative faith leadership. M. So catalyzing
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spiritual imagination? Actually.
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>> Autumn Brown: Yeah. What does that mean?
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Well, right. The stuff I'm about to talk world.
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And you know, of course, as you adopt a new focus
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as an organization, you wonder, should we update
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our mission statement? But actually we felt like
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that mission was so right, so right to catalyze
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spiritual imagination. I will say a factor of that
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is the massive greed we encounter in the way our
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society organizes itself. I need to catalyze a new
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and different imagination that's soul focused.
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That's focused on our hearts and souls. So some of
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the ways we do that is workshops like the one I
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just described that we do with grist. We bring in
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someone who knows how to do great fiction and
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imaginative work. And we've worked with a few
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different partner organizations and we create the
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time. That was a three hour workshop. We were
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asking preachers and religious leaders to give up
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basically their whole afternoon to spend time
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making dream seeds. Sharing dream seeds. And our,
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hope. Hope. Hope is that those ideas filter into
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the pulpits of every single preacher who was there
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and perhaps beyond. And I left really energized,
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imagining religious leaders who get an invitation
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from the state legislature to come offer an
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opening prayer at their session. This is a thing
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that actually still happens in the world all the
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time. Yeah, disparity. We started imagining dream
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seeds of how that could be different, how we could
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be organized just completely differently. So I,
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imagine religious leaders being visionaries in
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that way, having concrete. Gris Loves this term
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dream seed. So I've adopted it. These concrete
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dream seeds that are informing our way of being.
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you know, another way we've gotten at this is
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every summer we do a summer fiction book club and
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we read books of fiction and then reflect on them.
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And some of our books that we've picked up are not
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in the bookstore. In the climate fiction section,
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for example, we read a book called north woods by
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Daniel Mason. And what's Amazing about this book
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is the landscape of Western Massachusetts is
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perhaps the main character. It is not a setting.
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It is like the main character of the book. And so
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it's like that mindset shift. We want people to
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read a story, read a 300 page novel, and immerse
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yourself in it. And then how does that lead you to
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look at whatever landscape you're looking at
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differently? What if the landscape outside your
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window was the main character?
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>> Autumn Brown: Right, right.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: I think those are the sorts of things we're
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playing with and very regularly.
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>> Autumn Brown: And that relates to the quote that you offered
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being a deliberate practice, right? That because
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I'm a martial artist, I think a lot about
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discipline and practice. What makes a practice
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into a discipline is your commitment to it and
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your willingness to show up day in and day out to
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that practice regardless of whether you want to do
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it or not, or regardless of whether you feel up
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for it, or regardless of whether you feel inspired
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by it. In my practice community, I often talk with
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fellow students about showing up for what is here.
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Are you here for what is here? And in order to
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know whether you're here for what's here, you have
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to be willing to show up every day for it and then
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receive whatever it is that is actually able to
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come through the practice. To me, the practice of
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engaging in visionary fiction is very similar. I
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lead visionary fiction writing workshops very
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regularly.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Nice.
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>> Autumn Brown: In the practice that we do when we're leading
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these writing workshops, we take people through a
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process of collectively building the world, and
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then everyone writes their own individual stories
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inside of that world. So we've created a shared
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reality, and then we're getting to have our
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individual visions and experiences and stories
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inside of that reality. But what I noticed is that
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being in a deliberate practice of creating new
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worlds means that I'm available for the wisdom
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that wants to channel through in relationship to
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that particular world that's been made. There's a
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direct connection there between world building and
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other kinds of spiritual practice. Meditation is
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the same way. Prayer is the same way. If you
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continue to show up for the practice, you're
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available then for the wisdom that is waiting to
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be received for a long time. We would all say
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we're on the precipice of collapse. And now. And,
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now we're maybe we're in the landslide, you know
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what I mean?
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: It's like we're.
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>> Autumn Brown: We're all avalanching down the mountain together.
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When we talk with our guest, Norma Wong, we'll
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talk about the metaphor of the slipstream, like
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being inside of the moment where things m are
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moving very, very fast. A lot of things feel
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either out of control, but also a lot of things
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feel more possible as a result of that being in
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that new shared reality. It's so easy to feel
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powerless. But actually the thing that's required
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of us is to find a sense of agency inside of all
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of that practices, like what Tory leads people
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through. It's kind of like reclaiming a sense of
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agency related to the future through
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: fiction, which is surprising for many because I
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think when people think about climate change and
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being an environmentalist or something, and they
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think of discipline and practice, they come to
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things like composting, which is a discipline in
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practice in my
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>> Autumn Brown: home and is great to do. Yes.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: And is great to do. And people think of. I mean,
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if you're really bold, like writing regular
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letters, op EDS to the paper, I know some people
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who adopt that as a discipline and a practice. I'm
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going to like. It's every month I'm going to write
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an op ed. But this does not make the surface of a
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discipline and practice. Very often for people
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thinking about the climate change world that we're
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in and caring for the environment, it's like what
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a practice would be, imagining positive futures
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for our hearts and souls. I need to get my compost
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to the bin.
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>> Autumn Brown: I need to do something that corrects the current
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reality. Right. I, ah, think that so many of us
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are trapped in this corrective thinking that what
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we're trying to do is fix what's currently
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happening. Yeah, it's a, totally understandable
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place to be, particularly spiritual leaders,
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clergy, religious leaders. The calling is
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different in this time. And not saying that we
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shouldn't be reminding people to compost and
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recycle. All of it matters, like all the forms of
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political action matter. Communities that are
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centered around shared cultural practice, they
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have the capacity to provide a different kind of
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grounding for, for people in this time period.
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Stepping into that calling is one of the
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requirements if you're signing up for spiritual
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leadership now.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Hi there, it's Ophelia from the BTS Center.
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>> Autumn Brown: Did you know that our team puts
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: together show notes and discussion questions for
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you for every episode? Climate change is for you
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and your spiritual community. You can find all
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this and more online@, climatechangedpodcast.org
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now back to the show.
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As a spiritual leader, I hold this capacity for a
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vision, for a future that's informed. I mean, it's
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why I read these novels. It's so that I can be
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informed by what people are Writing as ways that
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we might be in the future. I also think it offers
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for anyone and everyone a really powerful form of
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agency in these times to build our capacity to
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care and to lean into what's possible. That is,
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that is a different sort of agency than recycling
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and it leans into a different form of identity
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that I think brings us back almost to where we
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started with Tory saying, you know, for some
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reason I'm not seeing the cultural pieces in
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climate fiction and maybe it's because it's so
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linked to science fiction and the idea that we're
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going to have peace because we're all the same,
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like bristles against me so much.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: So that is like not the truth I have found in
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engaging with both the ecosystems of the world and
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the human diverse amazingness of the world. Our
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peace does not come from being the same. So we
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need to really, really learn how to gain agency in
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love and care across wild lines of difference as
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our human calling. And I think it's so, so
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possible to find tomorrow. Yeah.
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>> Autumn Brown: The image that comes to mind, and I'm not going to
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get this right in terms of which of the sea
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creatures are doing this, but the image that comes
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to my mind is those like Planet Earth documentary
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images of whales underwater that have, I think,
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are they like pilot fish or whatever, that are
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there in these symbiotic relationships where they
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require one another in order to move through the
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ocean together. And I think about that in
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relationship to this, how we understand the role
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of, not just the role of cultural and spiritual
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practice, but the role of multiple cultural and
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spiritual practices being represented in our
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vision of the world. There's a direct
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relationship. At a certain point it becomes cliche
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to say, but maybe it needs to be repeated, that
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any healthy ecosystem requires diversity. We
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actually have to have multiple ways of being and
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multiple ways of believing in order to actually
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have a healthy ecosystem of life.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Amen. Amen.
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>> Autumn Brown: Amen.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: I think we do need to keep saying it.
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>> Autumn Brown: We do. Maybe, maybe we do need to keep saying it.
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We're not listening to it yet. It's kind of sad,
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but I guess we do.
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I really appreciated Tory starting with why isn't
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diversity and identity showing up in our climate
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fiction? I was talking with him about this a
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little bit, but I wanted to kind of unpack it a
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little bit more here with you that it made me
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think about where do I see cultural and spiritual
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practice showing up in science fiction or
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visionary fiction? And I was so pleased that we
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led off our grounding practice with a quote from
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the great Octavia Butler.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Yeah.
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>> Autumn Brown: Who. For our. For the listener out there who's not
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familiar with with her work. She is. Was. She's
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passed. But she was probably the first African
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American woman to reach mainstream success as a
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science fiction writer. She was a very prolific
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author. There was a series of books that she was
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actively in the process of still writing at the
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point that she died. But she had published two of
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the books in the series, Parable of the Sower and
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Parable of the Talents. They have since become
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incredibly popular in part because they prefigured
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the political moment that we're currently living
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in in very, very specific ways, including the
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framing. Make America Great again shows up in
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Parable of the Sower and Parable of the Talents,
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these books that she wrote in the 80s.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: So inciting.
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>> Autumn Brown: It's really kind of intense to read it now. In
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this series, her main character is creating a sort
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of new spirituality called Earthseed. Really m
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understanding that people living under the
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conditions that her people are living under have
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to be motivated by a spiritual vision in order to
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be able to find their way out of these conditions
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of, persistent terror, violence and collapse. That
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without a spiritual vision there is. There is no
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way to find hope. It's really fascinating to me
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because after I was reflecting on the court
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conversation with Tory, I was like, right. I can't
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think of a lot of, Except that the writers that I
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can think of who are actively dealing with
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spirituality inside of their work are often women
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of color, queer folks, you know, folks who are
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totally. Who are deeply connected to their
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cultural practices and are writing from that
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place.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Yep.
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>> Autumn Brown: It really made me think about the connection
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between grounding ourselves in spiritual vision
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and how often our vision for a thriving future
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actually comes from the margins of the society
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that we're living in. Because it's coming from the
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places where people are already surviving the
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conditions of terror and violence that are coming
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for everyone. But they reach the most marginalized
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people first. Right. That's that. That frontline
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orientation.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Yeah. And just to give a shout out to another one
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of the books that we picked up in our summer
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fiction book club, we read People of the Whale by
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Linda Hogan, who is a. A Native American author.
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And yes, we need to find the stories that are
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written from perspectives that, that have held
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tight to a cultural, spiritual, meaning making
507
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,840
framework that I do think is so needed in these
508
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,040
times. So the character in this book has the
509
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,440
ability to breathe underwater. So pick it up.
510
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,120
>> Autumn Brown: That sounds helpful.
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00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,000
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: For a wide range of reasons, including the
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00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,280
cultural identity it Leads to truly.
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00:26:19,710 --> 00:26:21,550
>> Autumn Brown: You know what? It's so funny. Usually when people
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00:26:21,550 --> 00:26:23,750
ask me the question, what superpower would I want
515
00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:25,790
to have? I'm like, I wouldn't. I wouldn't want a
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00:26:25,790 --> 00:26:30,230
superpower. But now, after you named this, what
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00:26:30,230 --> 00:26:31,910
the main character, I'm like, oh, that is the
518
00:26:31,910 --> 00:26:33,550
superpower I would want to have. Oh, yeah.
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00:26:34,270 --> 00:26:36,390
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: See, I always say that I want to talk to trees and
520
00:26:36,390 --> 00:26:39,230
actually know, like, their thoughts and feelings.
521
00:26:39,390 --> 00:26:41,710
Anyway, that's very. This. This question is
522
00:26:41,710 --> 00:26:43,910
literally the first one that Gris started with at
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00:26:43,910 --> 00:26:46,870
our workshop was, what climate superpower would
524
00:26:46,870 --> 00:26:49,150
you like to have? And so the chat was filled with
525
00:26:49,150 --> 00:26:52,410
all these ideas, like breathing underwater and
526
00:26:52,570 --> 00:26:54,370
>> Autumn Brown: talking, to trees. And talking to trees.
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00:26:56,210 --> 00:26:58,770
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: All right, superpowers feels like a pretty good
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00:26:58,770 --> 00:27:01,330
place to close. We've now identified our favorite
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00:27:01,330 --> 00:27:01,930
superpowers.
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00:27:01,930 --> 00:27:03,250
>> Autumn Brown: I agree. I agree.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Listener, you better have in mind what your
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00:27:05,770 --> 00:27:08,490
climate superpower would be. And, of course, you
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00:27:08,490 --> 00:27:11,330
know, we would love to hear it. As we sit with
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00:27:11,490 --> 00:27:14,090
what Tory shared, what Autumn and I have
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00:27:14,090 --> 00:27:17,770
discussed, I wonder how each and every one of you
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00:27:17,770 --> 00:27:21,290
listening might feel called to the work of
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00:27:21,290 --> 00:27:28,330
imagination, embodying the world we long for and
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00:27:28,330 --> 00:27:29,290
talking about it.
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00:27:29,290 --> 00:27:44,260
>> Autumn Brown: And talking about it. Thank you, Nicole. We call
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00:27:44,340 --> 00:27:47,750
this part Next Steps. where Imagination Meets
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00:27:47,830 --> 00:27:50,910
Practice. It's how we carry these ideas into our
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00:27:50,910 --> 00:27:53,550
shared lives. Because the change we need won't
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00:27:53,550 --> 00:27:56,070
happen alone. It, grows in community, where we
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00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:57,270
talk about it.
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00:27:57,750 --> 00:28:01,430
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: So here are a few invitations from today's
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00:28:01,430 --> 00:28:04,950
conversation. I'll add my recommended next step
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00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:08,240
here, which, if you were hearing about some of
548
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,720
these workshops Autumn and I were talking about,
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00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,280
first of all, you could pursue some opportunities
550
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,360
with Autumn or with Grist. But something that
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00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:19,680
would be easily accessible to you today would be
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00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,120
to log into the BTS Center's Leadership Commons,
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00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,600
and you will find there resources for adult
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00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,560
education facilitators, people who are leading
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00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,400
things in congregations and other communal
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00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,920
settings. And there is a particular resource I
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00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,530
want to draw your attention to, which is called
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00:28:37,610 --> 00:28:41,450
Creating youg Story of Tomorrow. It is a
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00:28:41,530 --> 00:28:45,050
facilitator guide for the sort of workshop you've
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00:28:45,050 --> 00:28:47,170
been hearing us talk about. It's something you
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00:28:47,170 --> 00:28:49,810
could lead in your setting. It was created, of
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00:28:49,810 --> 00:28:52,650
course, by an artist, but created by renowned
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00:28:52,650 --> 00:28:56,850
environmental artist Eve Mosier. And it includes a
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00:28:56,850 --> 00:29:00,170
facilitator guide and then a video where Eve moves
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00:29:00,170 --> 00:29:02,730
you through the different pieces of the workshop.
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Makes it really easy to be something you could you
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00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,120
do it on your own, but my encouragement is that
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you do it with a group of people that you care
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00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,440
about. So there's a resource and a next step for
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00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,280
you offered by the BTS Center.
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00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,440
>> Autumn Brown: That is so awesome, Nicole, and relates directly
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00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,440
to the next step that I was thinking of
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00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,840
suggesting, which is to write your own flash
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00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,920
fiction about a future that you'd love to inhabit.
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00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,640
Listener if you're not familiar with this term,
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00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,920
flash fiction is basically an incredibly short
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00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,910
term short story, less than a page. Often it's
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00:29:37,910 --> 00:29:40,190
just a few paragraphs and it has a clear
579
00:29:40,190 --> 00:29:42,710
beginning, middle and end. You could do this
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00:29:42,710 --> 00:29:44,790
alone. You could sit down and write a piece of
581
00:29:44,790 --> 00:29:47,230
flash fiction that describes the future you'd love
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00:29:47,230 --> 00:29:50,150
to inhabit by yourself. But I also recommend doing
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this either with a friend or with a group of
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00:29:52,310 --> 00:29:54,790
friends, and then reading your flash fiction aloud
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00:29:54,790 --> 00:29:57,510
to one another. If you're feeling extra excited
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00:29:57,510 --> 00:30:00,750
after doing it. You could post parts of it on your
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00:30:00,750 --> 00:30:03,570
social media. If you're on social media, or if you
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do it with a group, then you could decide to turn
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your group of stories into a little zine that you
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can print out and share with other people.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Like all of us, Autumn and I want to see these
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flash fiction send
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>> Autumn Brown: send it to us, send it to send it to the world. So
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think about whether it's this exercise or whether
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it's the resource that was developed for the BTS
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center that's available on the Leadership Commons.
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Just think about how can you bring this kind of
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exercise into your faith community, your team
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00:30:34,190 --> 00:30:37,030
meetings, the places where you gather with others.
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I think you'll notice how much vision and
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possibility is unleashed when you actively
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practice imagining together.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: love it.
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>> Autumn Brown: Okay, so we'd love to hear what you are creating
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00:30:50,380 --> 00:30:54,290
or discovering. Please email us at podcast the
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00:30:54,290 --> 00:30:58,280
btscenter.org or leave a voice message at
607
00:30:58,230 --> 00:31:04,830
207-200-6986 and who knows, your insights might
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00:31:04,830 --> 00:31:07,390
ripple out through future episodes.
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00:31:08,190 --> 00:31:12,150
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Absolutely. Climate Changed is a podcast from the
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00:31:12,150 --> 00:31:15,150
BTS center where we are cultivating spiritual
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00:31:15,150 --> 00:31:17,390
leadership for a climate changed world.
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00:31:18,270 --> 00:31:21,470
>> Autumn Brown: You can find transcripts, discussion guides, and
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00:31:21,550 --> 00:31:25,870
now full length video episodes plus bonus material
614
00:31:26,190 --> 00:31:30,110
on the BTS Center's YouTube page. Explore more at
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00:31:30,110 --> 00:31:34,190
thebtsscenter.org and climate change Podcast.
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00:31:34,990 --> 00:31:38,310
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Stay Connected. Share this episode and reach out
617
00:31:38,310 --> 00:31:41,470
anytime. Autumn and I would love to hear from you.
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00:31:42,030 --> 00:31:46,910
>> Autumn Brown: And as we close, here's a blessing for today. May
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you be imaginative. May you be creative. May you
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00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,160
feel connected to one another in your vision of a
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00:31:55,160 --> 00:32:09,640
new world. In the next episode of Climate Change,
622
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,880
I speak with Rabbi Ora Nitkin Kaner about Climate
623
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,880
Chaplaincy, climate feelings and how we can tend
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mend and befriend one another in a climate
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changing world.
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When you're losing your sense of hope,
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: what becomes your ground? What are the values that
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00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,800
you want to be living out in your life? It's a
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dirty process, like in the best way. None of us
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have answers in this time. We're all just figuring
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it out together.
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,920
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: It's like what a practice would be, imagining
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positive futures for our hearts and souls. I need
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to get my compost to the bin.
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>> Autumn Brown: I need to do something that corrects the current
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reality. Right?
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Yeah.
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>> Autumn Brown: Welcome to Climate Changed. I'm Autumn Brown.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: And I'm Reverend Nicole Dieroff. Thank you for
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joining us, for our continued conversation about
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climate fiction.
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>> Autumn Brown: For you listening, we love to hear from you. If in
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00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,800
this conversation something stirs in you or
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00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,080
inspires an idea or story, you can always email or
14
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leave a voice message for Nicole and me. I'll
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share those contact details later in this episode.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: In the last episode of Climate Change, Autumn
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spoke with Tory Stevens. Tory is a storyteller,
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cultural worker and climate justice advocate who
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co founded Imagine 2200, a climate fiction
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initiative at Grist. They talked about the
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prefigurative power of storytelling, the beautiful
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concept of thrutopia, and why the climate movement
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desperately needs more imagination to ground us
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today. Here's a brief excerpt of what Tory had to
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say.
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>> Tory Stephens: Do you know this term thrutopia?
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>> Autumn Brown: No.
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>> Tory Stephens: Thrutopia comes from the UK and the idea is that
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you're showing us on the way to a better world,
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but we haven't tackled or changed everything.
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There's a problem, here's the solution, but we're
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showing how we get through that moment, as opposed
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to utopia, where it's just everything is like,
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better and we're showing the full, abundant world
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that we're all living in, which is fine. We
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publish those stories too. But I think more of the
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stories that we're publishing are this term of
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thrutopia, where not everything's been solved.
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There's still interpersonal relationships where
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people are living in community with each other.
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Even in social justice communities where people
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are in right relationship with each other, there's
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still going to be hard decisions to make. A good
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story that I can could give as an example around
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this is a story called Seven Sisters. There's
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these women who are working on a tea farm in a,
47
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collective kind of space farm that they, you know,
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make collective decisions on. A few of their
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drones go down. They have to make this choice
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between picking the tea on their own by hand,
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which is very labor intensive. And at the same
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time they're having like, money issues so they
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can't fix the drone while they're contemplating
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this issue. And their buyer, who is also one of
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the folks that live on the farm, is in Brazil. In
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Brazil, they had had a flood and there's a family
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that is displaced. This woman introduces the idea
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that she wants to bring this woman and her baby
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into the collective they have this discussion
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around. I don't know if we should, like, bring
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another human into our collective, but there's a
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few people that are like, no, we have to do this.
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Turns out that the woman who they bring into the
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farm can also fix drones, so
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>> Autumn Brown: that's beautiful. Wow.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: In this episode, Autumn will join me to talk about
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some of the themes and challenges around climate
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fiction that Tory raised. And if you're just
69
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joining us, welcome. It's not necessary to listen
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to the conversation with Tory before listening to
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this episode. In fact, listening to our
72
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reflections first will offer you a unique
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perspective on that previous conversation. Later
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in the episode, Autumn and I will also share some
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next steps you can take, including how you can
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share your own vision for the future right here on
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our show.
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Let's dive in.
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>> Autumn Brown: Nicole, I'm so excited to be in conversation with
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you about my conversation with Tory.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Totally. Oh my gosh. I loved listening to that
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conversation and it was such a pleasure to get to
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hear the two of you. I've been working with Tory
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for a little bit. What you surfaced from him was
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so good. So good.
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>> Autumn Brown: I'm so glad. I'm so glad. One of the ways that he
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identifies in his work is as like a network
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weaver. And so it was sweet to kind of think about
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the sort of different tendrils of the network
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reaching across each other that you and Tory had
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been doing all this work together. And then I plug
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into the network totally with this particular
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role. And then of course, I learned afterwards
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that my sister Adrienne was one of the first
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judges in the first imagination 2200 year of the
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contest.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Woo hoo.
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>> Autumn Brown: And so. Right. So, I mean, so many connections. So
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many beautiful connections. I was so appreciative
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to get to start our climate changed conversations
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with this particular interview. Because the role
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of imagination and storytelling in my own life has
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been such a powerful part of my work. And I've
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seen, I've personally been able to see and witness
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what gets unleashed in people as a result of
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engaging in the activity of world building
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together. It was so interesting talking to Tory
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about all of this. You know, obviously I'm coming
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in with a particular interest in this conversation
110
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in how. How is culture and how is spirituality
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specifically represented in the worlds that are
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being built? Yeah, it was interesting to hear Tory
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really name directly how one of the problems that
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he has identified in the world of people who are
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writing climate fiction and science fiction in
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particular, but climate fiction generally is that
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so often the World building doesn't take into
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account the actual internal worlds of the
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characters which are made out of their cultural
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and spiritual practices. And I was thinking how.
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Oh, that's actually, actually so reflective of
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: the time that we're in. Yes, yes, totally. It kind
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of, Well, I will say it broke my heart a little
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bit because it is the piece that I think the BTS
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center is tending to so much is what is happening
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to our hearts and our souls right now and really
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what is the vision for our hearts and our souls?
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Yeah, I was like, Tory's gotta have a whole stack
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of stories to pass on to me that, you know,
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elucidates that and maybe he doesn't. So we gotta
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create em. We gotta create em, I guess is what it
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means.
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>> Autumn Brown: Yes, exactly. And it was, it was interesting to
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notice that the connection that he was drawing
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around the absence of cultural, spiritual,
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cultural ways, practices from a lot of the climate
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fiction he was reading, the connection he made
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between that and our commitment to an addiction to
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dystopian narratives that in order to imagine, you
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know, he brought in that lens of the thrutopia,
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the sort of imagining, how are we, how are we
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making it through to the next phase? That part of
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how our capacity to imagine a thriving future.
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There seems to be an answer there that's about our
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ability to narrate an internal world that supports
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meaning making. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: The ending note of the conversation as we heard
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it, where you were talking about stories as
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serving to doula our meaning making. That comment
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really sparked for me as I started to reflect on
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the many ways the BTS center has been engaging
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with fiction and with imagination. This has been a
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real centerpiece of our work and like every
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program we do for the past many years. And
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sometimes I wonder, well, why that focus? What is
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that about? And I think it is this, this doula, to
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meaning making stories have been and are for faith
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communities and spiritual leaders. So grounding in
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how we understand our situation. And to only go
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into the stories of the ones that are fear
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inducing, to maybe make us act or something, maybe
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is why we go into those. It does something
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different to our hearts than going into these
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stories where we actually are saying this is the
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world we want. And yeah, we, we are seeing
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signposts or we have a sense that in some ways
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what we're headed towards is also something
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ancient. You know, we always talk about it as new,
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but I sort of, the more I think about it, the more
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it feels like an ancient way of being.
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I wanted to bring in a quote from a academic
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article written by one of our research advisors,
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Susie Mosher. And in this article, she's talking
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about leadership in times of environmental
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devastation and what it means to be a climate
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leader. and she talks about a deliberate practice
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of visioning in the face of unraveling will be a
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critically important practice. And I think this is
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why the BTS center makes space for this. Because a
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lot of people, a lot of leaders, this is like,
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maybe they can appreciate that this in theory
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would be a good idea, but like actually doing it
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is, can be harder to come by. And I wonder if this
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is true in your kind of artist oriented world as
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much as it is in my religious leader oriented
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world. But I would say for religious leaders,
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yeah, it's kind of a push to get together and say,
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we're gonna spend this next bit of time visioning
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and imagining. Tory I've gotten to know actually
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the best because we decided to do a workshop with
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him for preachers. And so we had a room full of
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preachers online, and Tory and his colleagues at
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Grist led us through creating Dream Seeds and
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talking about them and looking at one another's
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Dream seeds. and, we ended this workshop. I mean,
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my heart, I think, was beating faster with
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actually like a sense of there's so much
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possibility just around the corner. And I mean, I,
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I love doing good work day in and day out. But
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like this feeling in my heart was different than
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some other, some other things that we activate. So
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I really think Susie is right. We need a
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deliberate practice of regularly visioning
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positive futures. And I know religious leaders, I
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know religious leaders would really, really
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benefit from it.
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>> Autumn Brown: I have a question for you about that, Nicole,
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because I heard you say that the BTS center,
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there, there was a certain point, it sounds like
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in the history of the center where there was a
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kind of clear decision made to start centering a
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practice like this. And now, now there's this
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focus on narrative as a part of all of the work
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you all are doing. You know, I, think there's a
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lot of things that our individual communities do
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that are. There's plenty of things that are not
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replicable, but there's plenty of things that
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actually are replicable. And it might be helpful
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to, you know, the listener out there who is trying
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to figure out how do I integrate visioning
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practices into my community. It actually might be
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helpful to that person to hear a little bit of the
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story of how and why the BTS center made that
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shift. So I wonder if you could tell a little bit
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of that story of why did the BTS center start
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centering, visioning or fiction or narrative as a
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part of the practice? And how could a listener
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potentially replicate that in their own community?
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: What's funny? Imagination came first. Climate
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change came second. M. So the BTS center adopted
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its mission before adopting its focus on
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spiritual, leadership for a climate changed world.
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So. And it is actually this mission statement that
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made me want to work for this organization. It's
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actually really like, it is really important to
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me. Our mission is to catalyze spiritual
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imagination with enduring wisdom for
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transformative faith leadership. M. So catalyzing
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spiritual imagination? Actually.
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>> Autumn Brown: Yeah. What does that mean?
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Well, right. The stuff I'm about to talk world.
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And you know, of course, as you adopt a new focus
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as an organization, you wonder, should we update
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our mission statement? But actually we felt like
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that mission was so right, so right to catalyze
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spiritual imagination. I will say a factor of that
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is the massive greed we encounter in the way our
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society organizes itself. I need to catalyze a new
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and different imagination that's soul focused.
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That's focused on our hearts and souls. So some of
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the ways we do that is workshops like the one I
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just described that we do with grist. We bring in
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someone who knows how to do great fiction and
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imaginative work. And we've worked with a few
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different partner organizations and we create the
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time. That was a three hour workshop. We were
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asking preachers and religious leaders to give up
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basically their whole afternoon to spend time
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making dream seeds. Sharing dream seeds. And our,
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hope. Hope. Hope is that those ideas filter into
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the pulpits of every single preacher who was there
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and perhaps beyond. And I left really energized,
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imagining religious leaders who get an invitation
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from the state legislature to come offer an
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opening prayer at their session. This is a thing
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that actually still happens in the world all the
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time. Yeah, disparity. We started imagining dream
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seeds of how that could be different, how we could
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be organized just completely differently. So I,
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imagine religious leaders being visionaries in
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that way, having concrete. Gris Loves this term
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dream seed. So I've adopted it. These concrete
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dream seeds that are informing our way of being.
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you know, another way we've gotten at this is
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every summer we do a summer fiction book club and
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we read books of fiction and then reflect on them.
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And some of our books that we've picked up are not
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in the bookstore. In the climate fiction section,
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for example, we read a book called north woods by
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Daniel Mason. And what's Amazing about this book
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is the landscape of Western Massachusetts is
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perhaps the main character. It is not a setting.
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It is like the main character of the book. And so
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it's like that mindset shift. We want people to
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read a story, read a 300 page novel, and immerse
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yourself in it. And then how does that lead you to
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look at whatever landscape you're looking at
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differently? What if the landscape outside your
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window was the main character?
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>> Autumn Brown: Right, right.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: I think those are the sorts of things we're
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playing with and very regularly.
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>> Autumn Brown: And that relates to the quote that you offered
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being a deliberate practice, right? That because
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I'm a martial artist, I think a lot about
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discipline and practice. What makes a practice
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into a discipline is your commitment to it and
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your willingness to show up day in and day out to
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that practice regardless of whether you want to do
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it or not, or regardless of whether you feel up
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for it, or regardless of whether you feel inspired
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by it. In my practice community, I often talk with
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fellow students about showing up for what is here.
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Are you here for what is here? And in order to
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know whether you're here for what's here, you have
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to be willing to show up every day for it and then
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receive whatever it is that is actually able to
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come through the practice. To me, the practice of
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engaging in visionary fiction is very similar. I
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lead visionary fiction writing workshops very
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regularly.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Nice.
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>> Autumn Brown: In the practice that we do when we're leading
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these writing workshops, we take people through a
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process of collectively building the world, and
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then everyone writes their own individual stories
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inside of that world. So we've created a shared
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reality, and then we're getting to have our
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individual visions and experiences and stories
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inside of that reality. But what I noticed is that
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being in a deliberate practice of creating new
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worlds means that I'm available for the wisdom
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that wants to channel through in relationship to
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that particular world that's been made. There's a
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direct connection there between world building and
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other kinds of spiritual practice. Meditation is
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the same way. Prayer is the same way. If you
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continue to show up for the practice, you're
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available then for the wisdom that is waiting to
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be received for a long time. We would all say
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we're on the precipice of collapse. And now. And,
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now we're maybe we're in the landslide, you know
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what I mean?
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: It's like we're.
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>> Autumn Brown: We're all avalanching down the mountain together.
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When we talk with our guest, Norma Wong, we'll
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talk about the metaphor of the slipstream, like
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being inside of the moment where things m are
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moving very, very fast. A lot of things feel
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either out of control, but also a lot of things
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feel more possible as a result of that being in
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that new shared reality. It's so easy to feel
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powerless. But actually the thing that's required
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of us is to find a sense of agency inside of all
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of that practices, like what Tory leads people
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through. It's kind of like reclaiming a sense of
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agency related to the future through
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: fiction, which is surprising for many because I
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think when people think about climate change and
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being an environmentalist or something, and they
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think of discipline and practice, they come to
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things like composting, which is a discipline in
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practice in my
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>> Autumn Brown: home and is great to do. Yes.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: And is great to do. And people think of. I mean,
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if you're really bold, like writing regular
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letters, op EDS to the paper, I know some people
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who adopt that as a discipline and a practice. I'm
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going to like. It's every month I'm going to write
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an op ed. But this does not make the surface of a
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discipline and practice. Very often for people
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thinking about the climate change world that we're
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in and caring for the environment, it's like what
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a practice would be, imagining positive futures
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for our hearts and souls. I need to get my compost
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to the bin.
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>> Autumn Brown: I need to do something that corrects the current
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reality. Right. I, ah, think that so many of us
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are trapped in this corrective thinking that what
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we're trying to do is fix what's currently
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happening. Yeah, it's a, totally understandable
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place to be, particularly spiritual leaders,
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clergy, religious leaders. The calling is
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different in this time. And not saying that we
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shouldn't be reminding people to compost and
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recycle. All of it matters, like all the forms of
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political action matter. Communities that are
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centered around shared cultural practice, they
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have the capacity to provide a different kind of
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grounding for, for people in this time period.
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Stepping into that calling is one of the
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requirements if you're signing up for spiritual
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leadership now.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Hi there, it's Ophelia from the BTS Center.
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>> Autumn Brown: Did you know that our team puts
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: together show notes and discussion questions for
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you for every episode? Climate change is for you
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and your spiritual community. You can find all
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this and more online@, climatechangedpodcast.org
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now back to the show.
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As a spiritual leader, I hold this capacity for a
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vision, for a future that's informed. I mean, it's
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why I read these novels. It's so that I can be
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informed by what people are Writing as ways that
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we might be in the future. I also think it offers
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for anyone and everyone a really powerful form of
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agency in these times to build our capacity to
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care and to lean into what's possible. That is,
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that is a different sort of agency than recycling
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and it leans into a different form of identity
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that I think brings us back almost to where we
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started with Tory saying, you know, for some
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reason I'm not seeing the cultural pieces in
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climate fiction and maybe it's because it's so
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linked to science fiction and the idea that we're
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going to have peace because we're all the same,
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like bristles against me so much.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: So that is like not the truth I have found in
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engaging with both the ecosystems of the world and
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the human diverse amazingness of the world. Our
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peace does not come from being the same. So we
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need to really, really learn how to gain agency in
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love and care across wild lines of difference as
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our human calling. And I think it's so, so
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possible to find tomorrow. Yeah.
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>> Autumn Brown: The image that comes to mind, and I'm not going to
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get this right in terms of which of the sea
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creatures are doing this, but the image that comes
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to my mind is those like Planet Earth documentary
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images of whales underwater that have, I think,
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are they like pilot fish or whatever, that are
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there in these symbiotic relationships where they
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require one another in order to move through the
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ocean together. And I think about that in
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relationship to this, how we understand the role
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of, not just the role of cultural and spiritual
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practice, but the role of multiple cultural and
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spiritual practices being represented in our
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vision of the world. There's a direct
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relationship. At a certain point it becomes cliche
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to say, but maybe it needs to be repeated, that
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any healthy ecosystem requires diversity. We
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actually have to have multiple ways of being and
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multiple ways of believing in order to actually
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have a healthy ecosystem of life.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Amen. Amen.
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>> Autumn Brown: Amen.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: I think we do need to keep saying it.
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>> Autumn Brown: We do. Maybe, maybe we do need to keep saying it.
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We're not listening to it yet. It's kind of sad,
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but I guess we do.
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I really appreciated Tory starting with why isn't
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diversity and identity showing up in our climate
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fiction? I was talking with him about this a
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little bit, but I wanted to kind of unpack it a
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little bit more here with you that it made me
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think about where do I see cultural and spiritual
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practice showing up in science fiction or
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visionary fiction? And I was so pleased that we
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led off our grounding practice with a quote from
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the great Octavia Butler.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Yeah.
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>> Autumn Brown: Who. For our. For the listener out there who's not
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familiar with with her work. She is. Was. She's
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passed. But she was probably the first African
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American woman to reach mainstream success as a
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science fiction writer. She was a very prolific
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author. There was a series of books that she was
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actively in the process of still writing at the
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point that she died. But she had published two of
461
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the books in the series, Parable of the Sower and
462
00:23:48,510 --> 00:23:51,510
Parable of the Talents. They have since become
463
00:23:51,670 --> 00:23:54,830
incredibly popular in part because they prefigured
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the political moment that we're currently living
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in in very, very specific ways, including the
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00:24:00,210 --> 00:24:02,810
framing. Make America Great again shows up in
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00:24:02,810 --> 00:24:04,850
Parable of the Sower and Parable of the Talents,
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these books that she wrote in the 80s.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: So inciting.
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>> Autumn Brown: It's really kind of intense to read it now. In
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this series, her main character is creating a sort
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of new spirituality called Earthseed. Really m
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understanding that people living under the
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conditions that her people are living under have
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to be motivated by a spiritual vision in order to
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be able to find their way out of these conditions
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of, persistent terror, violence and collapse. That
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without a spiritual vision there is. There is no
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way to find hope. It's really fascinating to me
480
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because after I was reflecting on the court
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conversation with Tory, I was like, right. I can't
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think of a lot of, Except that the writers that I
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can think of who are actively dealing with
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spirituality inside of their work are often women
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of color, queer folks, you know, folks who are
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totally. Who are deeply connected to their
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cultural practices and are writing from that
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place.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Yep.
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>> Autumn Brown: It really made me think about the connection
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between grounding ourselves in spiritual vision
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and how often our vision for a thriving future
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actually comes from the margins of the society
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that we're living in. Because it's coming from the
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places where people are already surviving the
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conditions of terror and violence that are coming
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for everyone. But they reach the most marginalized
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people first. Right. That's that. That frontline
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orientation.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Yeah. And just to give a shout out to another one
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of the books that we picked up in our summer
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00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,280
fiction book club, we read People of the Whale by
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00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:48,160
Linda Hogan, who is a. A Native American author.
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And yes, we need to find the stories that are
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written from perspectives that, that have held
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tight to a cultural, spiritual, meaning making
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00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,840
framework that I do think is so needed in these
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00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,040
times. So the character in this book has the
509
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,440
ability to breathe underwater. So pick it up.
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00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,120
>> Autumn Brown: That sounds helpful.
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00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,000
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: For a wide range of reasons, including the
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cultural identity it Leads to truly.
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>> Autumn Brown: You know what? It's so funny. Usually when people
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ask me the question, what superpower would I want
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00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:25,790
to have? I'm like, I wouldn't. I wouldn't want a
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00:26:25,790 --> 00:26:30,230
superpower. But now, after you named this, what
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00:26:30,230 --> 00:26:31,910
the main character, I'm like, oh, that is the
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00:26:31,910 --> 00:26:33,550
superpower I would want to have. Oh, yeah.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: See, I always say that I want to talk to trees and
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00:26:36,390 --> 00:26:39,230
actually know, like, their thoughts and feelings.
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00:26:39,390 --> 00:26:41,710
Anyway, that's very. This. This question is
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literally the first one that Gris started with at
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00:26:43,910 --> 00:26:46,870
our workshop was, what climate superpower would
524
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you like to have? And so the chat was filled with
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00:26:49,150 --> 00:26:52,410
all these ideas, like breathing underwater and
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>> Autumn Brown: talking, to trees. And talking to trees.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: All right, superpowers feels like a pretty good
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place to close. We've now identified our favorite
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00:27:01,330 --> 00:27:01,930
superpowers.
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00:27:01,930 --> 00:27:03,250
>> Autumn Brown: I agree. I agree.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Listener, you better have in mind what your
532
00:27:05,770 --> 00:27:08,490
climate superpower would be. And, of course, you
533
00:27:08,490 --> 00:27:11,330
know, we would love to hear it. As we sit with
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00:27:11,490 --> 00:27:14,090
what Tory shared, what Autumn and I have
535
00:27:14,090 --> 00:27:17,770
discussed, I wonder how each and every one of you
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00:27:17,770 --> 00:27:21,290
listening might feel called to the work of
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00:27:21,290 --> 00:27:28,330
imagination, embodying the world we long for and
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00:27:28,330 --> 00:27:29,290
talking about it.
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00:27:29,290 --> 00:27:44,260
>> Autumn Brown: And talking about it. Thank you, Nicole. We call
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00:27:44,340 --> 00:27:47,750
this part Next Steps. where Imagination Meets
541
00:27:47,830 --> 00:27:50,910
Practice. It's how we carry these ideas into our
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00:27:50,910 --> 00:27:53,550
shared lives. Because the change we need won't
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00:27:53,550 --> 00:27:56,070
happen alone. It, grows in community, where we
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00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:57,270
talk about it.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: So here are a few invitations from today's
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00:28:01,430 --> 00:28:04,950
conversation. I'll add my recommended next step
547
00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:08,240
here, which, if you were hearing about some of
548
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,720
these workshops Autumn and I were talking about,
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00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,280
first of all, you could pursue some opportunities
550
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,360
with Autumn or with Grist. But something that
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00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:19,680
would be easily accessible to you today would be
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00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,120
to log into the BTS Center's Leadership Commons,
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00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,600
and you will find there resources for adult
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00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,560
education facilitators, people who are leading
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00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,400
things in congregations and other communal
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00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,920
settings. And there is a particular resource I
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00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,530
want to draw your attention to, which is called
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00:28:37,610 --> 00:28:41,450
Creating youg Story of Tomorrow. It is a
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00:28:41,530 --> 00:28:45,050
facilitator guide for the sort of workshop you've
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00:28:45,050 --> 00:28:47,170
been hearing us talk about. It's something you
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00:28:47,170 --> 00:28:49,810
could lead in your setting. It was created, of
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00:28:49,810 --> 00:28:52,650
course, by an artist, but created by renowned
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00:28:52,650 --> 00:28:56,850
environmental artist Eve Mosier. And it includes a
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facilitator guide and then a video where Eve moves
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00:29:00,170 --> 00:29:02,730
you through the different pieces of the workshop.
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00:29:02,970 --> 00:29:05,920
Makes it really easy to be something you could you
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00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,120
do it on your own, but my encouragement is that
568
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,360
you do it with a group of people that you care
569
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,440
about. So there's a resource and a next step for
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00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,280
you offered by the BTS Center.
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00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,440
>> Autumn Brown: That is so awesome, Nicole, and relates directly
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00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,440
to the next step that I was thinking of
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00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,840
suggesting, which is to write your own flash
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00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,920
fiction about a future that you'd love to inhabit.
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Listener if you're not familiar with this term,
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00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,920
flash fiction is basically an incredibly short
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00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,910
term short story, less than a page. Often it's
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00:29:37,910 --> 00:29:40,190
just a few paragraphs and it has a clear
579
00:29:40,190 --> 00:29:42,710
beginning, middle and end. You could do this
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00:29:42,710 --> 00:29:44,790
alone. You could sit down and write a piece of
581
00:29:44,790 --> 00:29:47,230
flash fiction that describes the future you'd love
582
00:29:47,230 --> 00:29:50,150
to inhabit by yourself. But I also recommend doing
583
00:29:50,150 --> 00:29:52,310
this either with a friend or with a group of
584
00:29:52,310 --> 00:29:54,790
friends, and then reading your flash fiction aloud
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00:29:54,790 --> 00:29:57,510
to one another. If you're feeling extra excited
586
00:29:57,510 --> 00:30:00,750
after doing it. You could post parts of it on your
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00:30:00,750 --> 00:30:03,570
social media. If you're on social media, or if you
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00:30:03,570 --> 00:30:06,090
do it with a group, then you could decide to turn
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00:30:06,090 --> 00:30:08,570
your group of stories into a little zine that you
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00:30:08,570 --> 00:30:10,250
can print out and share with other people.
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00:30:10,490 --> 00:30:13,530
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Like all of us, Autumn and I want to see these
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00:30:13,530 --> 00:30:15,450
flash fiction send
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00:30:15,450 --> 00:30:21,010
>> Autumn Brown: send it to us, send it to send it to the world. So
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00:30:21,010 --> 00:30:23,770
think about whether it's this exercise or whether
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00:30:23,770 --> 00:30:26,690
it's the resource that was developed for the BTS
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00:30:26,690 --> 00:30:28,730
center that's available on the Leadership Commons.
597
00:30:28,730 --> 00:30:30,910
Just think about how can you bring this kind of
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00:30:30,910 --> 00:30:34,190
exercise into your faith community, your team
599
00:30:34,190 --> 00:30:37,030
meetings, the places where you gather with others.
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00:30:37,350 --> 00:30:39,870
I think you'll notice how much vision and
601
00:30:39,870 --> 00:30:43,350
possibility is unleashed when you actively
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00:30:43,350 --> 00:30:45,510
practice imagining together.
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00:30:46,180 --> 00:30:46,580
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: love it.
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>> Autumn Brown: Okay, so we'd love to hear what you are creating
605
00:30:50,380 --> 00:30:54,290
or discovering. Please email us at podcast the
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00:30:54,290 --> 00:30:58,280
btscenter.org or leave a voice message at
607
00:30:58,230 --> 00:31:04,830
207-200-6986 and who knows, your insights might
608
00:31:04,830 --> 00:31:07,390
ripple out through future episodes.
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00:31:08,190 --> 00:31:12,150
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Absolutely. Climate Changed is a podcast from the
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00:31:12,150 --> 00:31:15,150
BTS center where we are cultivating spiritual
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00:31:15,150 --> 00:31:17,390
leadership for a climate changed world.
612
00:31:18,270 --> 00:31:21,470
>> Autumn Brown: You can find transcripts, discussion guides, and
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00:31:21,550 --> 00:31:25,870
now full length video episodes plus bonus material
614
00:31:26,190 --> 00:31:30,110
on the BTS Center's YouTube page. Explore more at
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00:31:30,110 --> 00:31:34,190
thebtsscenter.org and climate change Podcast.
616
00:31:34,990 --> 00:31:38,310
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Stay Connected. Share this episode and reach out
617
00:31:38,310 --> 00:31:41,470
anytime. Autumn and I would love to hear from you.
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00:31:42,030 --> 00:31:46,910
>> Autumn Brown: And as we close, here's a blessing for today. May
619
00:31:46,910 --> 00:31:51,480
you be imaginative. May you be creative. May you
620
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,160
feel connected to one another in your vision of a
621
00:31:55,160 --> 00:32:09,640
new world. In the next episode of Climate Change,
622
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,880
I speak with Rabbi Ora Nitkin Kaner about Climate
623
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,880
Chaplaincy, climate feelings and how we can tend
624
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,680
mend and befriend one another in a climate
625
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:21,640
changing world.
626
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:24,840
When you're losing your sense of hope,
627
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,880
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: what becomes your ground? What are the values that
628
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,800
you want to be living out in your life? It's a
629
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,200
dirty process, like in the best way. None of us
630
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,560
have answers in this time. We're all just figuring
631
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:38,360
it out together.
