Kelli Hayes Smith: you know, it would be like going to an in like a matchmaker who knows you and the person that they're matching you up with. They like know you rather than Tinder
Jonathan: I can't believe Tinder got a bad rap all of a sudden. Hmm. Shocker.
Kelli Hayes Smith: well, t Kylie Kecle and Jason Kecle met on Tinder, so it's not all bad. I got it in.
Jonathan: I know about that. You always draw back to somebody in the Taylor I will get through a podcast. That put market, I will get through a podcast without Taylor Swift.
Kelli Hayes Smith: No you won't. No you won't. Nah, I got it in. I got one in.
Jonathan: Welcome back to charting the course with Jonathan and Kelli. we're excited to have you guys here today.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah. So today is gonna be fun. I am going to I'm going over three travel stories that have been in the headlines recently that Jonathan knows nothing about because he doesn't read news. I don't think. Not on this. But
Jonathan: No, I don't like the news very much.
Kelli Hayes Smith: I do because I have my this is one of the things my AI does is bring me stories every day of travel industry news and These three have a lot in common and so many things different. So I I think if you're cool with it, Jonathan, I'm gonna do story by story. I'm gonna read that outline. We'll talk about it a little bit. We'll go to the next story and then we'll kind of put it all together in the end. Does that work?
Jonathan: I'm just here for the show. So yeah, let's roll. Yeah.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Okay. All right. All right. Let's do this. Okay. So the first one I want to talk about was in the the New York Post a few weeks, actually, I think it was a few weeks ago. It was in October, I know. So this was AI travel planning disasters. So I'm gonna give everybody a quick little like synopsis of this. The New York Post published an article about travelers running into some pretty significant problems when they used AI to plan their vacations. Incorrect visa information. Transportation recommendations that didn't actually exist, restaurants that were closed, and attractions that don't exist. What's interesting is these experiences are reportingly help drive travelers back towards professionals and travel agents again, particularly in the luxury market. So that's the story on that. I okay, so here's my question. Here's my question for you.
Jonathan: Mm-hmm.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Okay. So what's the difference? When I when I hear this, if AI can actually put together itineraries in like seconds, is this an is this going to strengthen a travel agent's ability, things that are happening like this to talk about it in the world? Or is something this is actually doing revealing weakness that some agents have in their business.
Jonathan: yes. Just yes. There you go.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah, exactly. To both.
Jonathan: Yes to both. So I do think it's wise to have a dialogue and talk about how, you know, we've got all the information at our fingertips. You know, first time in human history you've got the entire resources of libraries available to you. Yet somehow as a society we're not getting much brighter. So you can't have too much information.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Because machines are thinking for us.
Jonathan: Exactly. You need the cognition cognition, cognitive ability. There you go. As I say that trying to sound smart, whatever. The human touch of the industry, and we we've seen it for years, and again, growing up in the industry as as second generation, watching my dad go through this, going through, you know, when when the dot coms came out and Expedia and then Costco got into and it's just all that type of stuff. And every every tech toy, if you will, revolution that came out was supposedly, supposedly supposed to wipe out travel agents. And instead, it actually drove people back to it because at the end of the day, we are wired and designed for community. And we're designed to be around each other as far as human beings at first and foremost. And you can take that information and you can get very easily overwhelmed as a customer. You think about it from a from a trade side, from the travel agent side, we have a lot of information behind the scenes that the customers don't have that. We can feel comfortable as vetted and validated. We can call people up and get get really to the source of a lot of information that the customers don't have. And it's still overwhelming for us to track down the just the the amount of info out there, right? So the customer is even more handicapped because they don't have access to real information. And yeah, AI, yeah, I know there's stories all over the place with like you know, misquoting that, do you p steering people to the wrong place, the wrong Portland versus, you know, Oregon versus Maine. You hear all the stories out there. And it kind of reminds me of remember when GPS came out, like in your cars and people would follow GPS and not look at the road and drive into a lake. And there was more than one story of somebody plopping into a lake because they weren't looking ahead.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah, that's a little concerning. But it's not a lot different though than somebody getting on a plane to Maine instead of Oreg it it instead of Oregon. that's a wild take. Couple like there was a TikTok sa saga months and months ago that they got on a plane they were supposed to be going to France. It may have been Nice, and they ended up in
Jonathan: Mm.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Africa. And it was like Did nobody check that that
Jonathan: I
Kelli Hayes Smith: That this
Jonathan: mean
Kelli Hayes Smith: was not the right area. Like that's wild behavior. But also, yeah, but we are expecting machines to think for us. And so
Jonathan: Mm-hmm.
Kelli Hayes Smith: is anybody validating this information? First off, is anybody checking it? And is anybody, you know, double checking not just the information on the big pieces, but like the little pieces? Like, so one of these things, I know I didn't read the whole story, but like one of these was. Visa information, which, my God, that's important information. And the guy did not have the correct visa and he did not leave the airport. Like he could not go. So whole trip gone. One of them was like a train station that they said was gonna be nearby this hotel that did not exist. And so it could affect your whole trip, or it could affect just a you know, a little piece of it, but it makes it a whole lot more difficult. But Here's the thing. Is this exposing weakness in some in how some agents actually do their job?
Jonathan: Yeah, it is.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan: there's always you know you think about any industry, there's always you got your all stars, you got your middle, you got your kind of we'll call lazy lazy agents. I don't know how else to say that and I apologize if that's not we're gonna get in a life on that one. That's fine. Yeah, it's fine. You won't be the last one either.
Kelli Hayes Smith: I mean it it is we're probably gonna get eat in the comments and that's okay because I it's fine. It's not gonna be the first time or the last. No, but it's you're not wrong.
Jonathan: Yeah. If you wanna if you are going to rely on AI and any any tool, let me just rag on AI, but that's the new hot topic. But any tech tool, any tech platform, if you're going to allow that to take over your position in the sales cycle or in the service cycle or interfere with that relationship between you and your customer, then it will expose that weakness because at some point you are now. Interjecting something or someone else into the equation and then wondering where the sale went or why didn't it execute or why did I get a bad review or why didn't they come back? You know, pick your poison,
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yes.
Jonathan: but you can't turn over your business to somebody else and expect good things to happen, maybe.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah, well, they could could just cut out the middleman. So
Jonathan: Yeah.
Kelli Hayes Smith: several years ago, several years, I sat in a and I'll say where it was, I'm not gonna say who it was. I sat in a talk at the Las Vegas Travel Agent Forum. And I actually was there, we were sitting with David from Tern at that that that talk. And like He and I both were like crawling out of our skin with the conversation that was being had on the stage. And this actually two of them. I'm gonna actually tell two things. So the first one was the Las Vegas Travel Agent Forum and they were talking about this particular new tech platform. And the people on the panel were like, I don't even have to write my itineraries anymore. It just does it for me. And I'm like, what? Like I was shocked and I'm like, but why do you why are you doing this job? Like, why are you doing this job? Because my God, don't tell that I was I was flab. My flabbers were gasted, if you will. Okay. it was insane behavior. And then later s I was in with similar people, was also in a talk where someone was talking about how they could you could train AI to clone your voice. Clone your video and it would show up in your client calls for you. They would be on a Zoom call and it wouldn't be you. It was your AI avatar doing the talking to your client. Yet again, flabber's gasted. I'm like, what are we doing? Why are we here? Don't you can't advocate for the industry and then tell the industry, tell the people that you're that you're you don't have to be there. Like what?
Jonathan: That's that's asinine. I gonna call it that. It's insane. Cause it like at that point, it's a
Kelli Hayes Smith: It's it's insane! It's insane!
Jonathan: human powered indust. We are in a service industry which requires human interaction. It requires human touch, empathy, sympathy, kindness, compassion like it it requires the human, the soft touch that makes us
Kelli Hayes Smith: And I think
Jonathan: special and different from the machines.
Kelli Hayes Smith: And it's fraud, if you want to know my opinion. It is it is fraud to pretend
Jonathan: Mm-hmm.
Kelli Hayes Smith: like it's plagiar. First off, let's just call it plagiarism. If they are writing your itineraries and you're not touching it, you stole it from a robot because you didn't have any part in it. Like that is unethical, in my opinion. It is unethical.
Jonathan: Mm-hmm.
Kelli Hayes Smith: And if you are if you are scheduling a call with a client and it is an AI clone of you talking to the client. That's fraud. The way
Jonathan: Mm-hmm.
Kelli Hayes Smith: I would lose my mind if I knew that that had happened. Also, you can tell. I I'm I
Jonathan: Correct.
Kelli Hayes Smith: just I need to tell people that you can tell. Like I can
Jonathan: And the millennials out there will be like, Yeah, we can we got this spotted a mile away. Yep.
Kelli Hayes Smith: I know who it is. Yes. Like, cause I can pick out someone who has used AI on videos to talk for them in a heartbeat. Okay. Like,
Jonathan: Yeah.
Kelli Hayes Smith: there's no way this looks like you, comes across like you. It's it I I know. And who would and the way I would tell everybody, the way I would tell every person what they had done. Like I just can't I am so offended by that as someone who is advocating for this industry. And
Jonathan: Mm-hmm.
Kelli Hayes Smith: so if that's the things you're doing, AI is exposing your weakness and you are proving to the world that it's not necessary.
Jonathan: And and yeah, you do we do get fiercely protective, those of
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah.
Jonathan: us who are trying to advocate for the industry and make sure that we're bringing travel professionals and elevating and making sure that we are our community assets and resources and and actually taking our craft seriously. It is offensive when people just throw AI on and you're like, No, this is this is ridiculous. I can go do that on my own. Well, I can't help you. And I I was scrolling Instagram, right? And I saw this guy. He was doing an AI recruiting. You know, interview, HR interview, of course. And
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yes.
Jonathan: he put his own AI avatar in there and he left. And they continued doing just this whole they said goodbye. And he stopped the recording. I don't know, it must have been five minutes in or something. Because they were just in this infinite loop of goodbye. And it's like, folks, you have a great day.
Kelli Hayes Smith: You hang up, no you hang up, no you hang up, no you hang up.
Jonathan: You do that. And I'm like, I'm a smash a robot. What are you talking about here? We're gonna
Kelli Hayes Smith: Like, this is insane and
Jonathan: get raked over the coals for this one, though. I can tell you that.
Kelli Hayes Smith: well it but I I don't care because I believe the industry deserves people who show up. The the
Jonathan: Agreed.
Kelli Hayes Smith: lowest bar possible is showing up and doing it yourself. Like I I that's
Jonathan: Yeah, that's true.
Kelli Hayes Smith: the bar is not high if that's the bar and like my gosh. And I know too many agents who are like rock stars. And so
Jonathan: Correct.
Kelli Hayes Smith: I think I also get offended for them because I'm like when people are like, I'm spending all this time marketing. This is what I know. And this is a hot topic. We're we're off the rails. Shocker. Shocker. We're one story in. but we I so it there's a big thing, like people are trying to teach people to to edit reels on Claude. And I haven't tried it yet because there's a whole lot of teaching to it. And I'm not paying for a course on that. So I will figure it out myself, but I'm not figuring it out for it to do that. I wanna I wanna dissect it and see number one, can I tell a difference? And number two, does it actually work? Because here's the thing. If it does and it doesn't hurt the performance, then I'm gonna give agents an easier way to do this that takes their time, that takes l that gives them more time back. But I am starting to be able to peg when I'm scrolling who has edited their reels that way. And
Jonathan: Mm.
Kelli Hayes Smith: I'm not anti it, but also if it's gonna make it all look the same, is it eventually going to be worth it? The answer is gonna be no. So, like, what's the give and take? And it comes like I I would so much rather if an agent came to me and said, I have to delegate something to AI, I but I don't. I I don't know what to do. I in marketing would be like, Yes, a hundred percent let AI write your ca your captions for Instagram. I can teach you how to make AI sound more like you, but I would much rather you use AI to write your captions than show up at a client call.
Jonathan: Correct. Like lift use the tool to lift the administrative burden that every discipline has out there, right? Like we're I'm not anti AI. What I'm anti AI AI on is having
Kelli Hayes Smith: Right.
Jonathan: it replace the human. That's where I draw the line. And it is it is offensive when people when you hear agents doing it and you're like, dude, like you're just giving us all a bad rap. And and
Kelli Hayes Smith: And
Jonathan: and it's yeah, here's your hot take. Just please leave the industry.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Right. Well, but just because
Jonathan: That's gonna duke us on the comments.
Kelli Hayes Smith: you can doesn't mean you should. I've say that
Jonathan: Thank you.
Kelli Hayes Smith: to children all the time and I'm like, it sounds like some of these people need that talk.
Jonathan: It it's it's like, you know, we're in the process. I'm up here on the dining room because the basement's getting finished and stuff, and the contractor showed up and they're just great. But it's like hiring a contractor and then they show up with a robot. I'd be like, No, I'm out. Like I need I need craftsmanship and and we're
Kelli Hayes Smith: I would lose it. Yes.
Jonathan: hearing about, you know, the the carpenter downstairs, he's framing out, you are you doing trim and all that? And he's like, there's nothing plum in there because when they framed out the walls, they didn't bank on putting doors up. So it's all caddy wampus. So here he is as a craftsman and a human being, aligning all the trim. And you know what? It looks stunning. Period.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Great.
Jonathan: I I mean that now if he wants to use AI to send me a quote and an invoice and my my text reminders, my emails, good on you. Please do that. So that way you
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yes.
Jonathan: can specialize in the creative aspects of your business. Cause every every I'm not a creative person. Okay, for I don't try that you don't want me singing, right? but I my version of creativity is on the system side. And and we find most agents they love creating the itineraries and actually helping agents extract the dream, or I'm sorry, customers extract the dream in their head, like the vision that they everyone has, and taking that and almost, I don't want to say turning into a kind of a game, but like this this idea that I want to get that dream out of your head and I want to make it a reality. And they really get excited for that. So use your juices there, use the tools to lift the administrative burden, be more efficient, but my God, do not turn your business over to the machines and
Kelli Hayes Smith: And there was a time where as a travel agent the value was information. I mean, there was a time that that was the case. And I'm not saying that that all the information is on the interwebs. I'm not saying that. But information is everywhere. But it some information is useless. And the skill is skill, that was very Appalachian. The skill, that was very Appalachian. The skill is knowing what information matters to this client and how to use that information. And how to use, and that's that process. I don't know, this may not be the right definition, but I think that's discernment, right? Having all of the information, and here's the thing we can no longer be marketing ourselves as convenience because that's not a value proposition anymore. There was a time when I do all the research, I handle all of these things that convenience mattered, but now it's legitimately you can just talk to a machine and at any time, and you can that's your convenience is not it. So if that's not it and the information is not, they can get the information. Again, I realize that there's some information that's not there, but like let's let's give them that, then what's the value? And the value is discernment and expertise, and you can't get that. From a machine.
Jonathan: You can't and you can't pick up on you know, people will tell you stuff without telling you and reading the, you
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yes.
Jonathan: know, facial cues or picking up on hints. And I I I had a recruiting call, I think it was yesterday or the day before, and it and it was an older gentleman. He's in his tail end of his career and everything, and and he was wanting to make a a switch to Legato from an another host. And we were talking and and at the end of the day you could just you could just hear in his voice, he was kind of wanting to ask a question and he but it was almost kind of nervous, sheepish to let it rip. And and just asked him, I said, I it sounds like there's something on your mind there. And he said, you know, I I I'm on the tail end and I know that hosts are trying to get, you know, younger people and stuff like that. But I he's like, I'm just gonna be straight with you. I'm you know, I'm in my seventies and I'm I'm I do this for friends and family and I have a good book of business on repeat and referral. And but he's like, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna be a million dollar each. I'm I'm I'm enjoying the tail end of my career and I've worked hard to get here. And I said Well, l let me just stop you right there. If every sale at i we're in a volume industry. Every sale, every dollar matters. I don't care if you're in your seventies or if you're twenties or seventeen, like it it doesn't matter. And you could almost hear the relief in his voice
Kelli Hayes Smith: Mm.
Jonathan: that here he is. He just wanted to be affirmed that he mattered, that his sales mattered, that 25 plus years in the exp in the industry mattered, and
Kelli Hayes Smith: Mm.
Jonathan: that it was okay that this is where he's at in his career. And you could tell he was just kind of gotten beaten up because and I and I'm watching my I'm watching my father go through this, you know, in that same age bracket. It's in this idea that, you're you're that age, so therefore you're just kind of disposed. You're just kind of tucked away in a corner. And it's like that's so flatly offensive to those that generation. And the wisdom that they have, and all he wanted to hear was, you matter. It's worth it. And that's and
Kelli Hayes Smith: And and
Jonathan: you can't pick up on that with the machine. It was human, you know, interaction
Kelli Hayes Smith: No. And
Jonathan: doing that.
Kelli Hayes Smith: I that's sometimes why I hate text messages or like email because you can't get points across. I often in texting and in like DMs will use, especially when I'm a I'm passionate about something, I want to talk about something, use voice memos so that you can get influx in my voice and I can hear things. and I think it's just so important for For people to get that. And you can't get that from the machine will talk to you, but it's not picking up on the humanness in your voice. And I think if you're not showing up and you're not you, that discernment matters too. Like you have to be able to discern what there's clearly something that they want to ask you, but they're not ready. Like, you know, it there's just so many things out there. And AI is a people pleaser. Like, Have you ever pushed back on it and be like, well, no, actually, I like that. Actually, I was wrong. This is a great idea. It's a people pleaser. It's going to tell you what you want to hear. And so having someone who is willing to, and I think it's an important strategy, not a strategy, important attribute of an agent is that they're willing to say no to an to a client. Like it not even just no, I'm not going to take you as a client, but no, I'm not going to book that. resort for you because I don't think that that's the best one.
Jonathan: Correct. Or know the way that you have this vision in your head is maybe something that isn't actually real, you know, because they
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah. Yep.
Jonathan: saw it on, you know, Instagram or whatever, TikTok. And Yeah, it just you are correct. There's a level of discernment and it and it has to be there. Can you discern people's questions? Can you get to the root of the question? Because half the time the questions will lead to additional ones or lead to a deeper question. And generally Yeah y yeah, you can feed the machine and it can pump out an answer. Well bloody frickin' duh.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah. And the I I think it really more than AI gets it like I this is an important story to showcase that they get it wrong. Don't get me wrong. But I think the bigger idea in the industry and in where we have to go as we're talking about travel agents, travel professionals and the industry and as a business is to stop acting like it's a convenience because in my opinion, we lose that that. Because it's more convenient to pick up my phone and talk to AI at any point and not wait on an email back and not worry about business hours or whatever. That's not the focus anymore. And focusing on the discernment. And they have information overload. This is going to filter some information for them, but with how do you know it's the right information? And that again comes back to discernment. And so it's perspective, opinion, and discernment. from the agent that sets them apart, not just AI gets it wrong.
Jonathan: Agreed. And that you know, you think about, you know, pre internet, if you will. for those of us old enough to remember that. Like, yeah, you used to go to your library, write your papers, blah, blah, blah, if you were in school. And I remember watching my dad do that. Like back in the day, you you had travel guides and you had paper and you had get your brochures every year and it's and you go through all the
Kelli Hayes Smith: Call people.
Jonathan: the rendition of it, right? So yeah, getting getting information was big because there was a lack of information. And you're absolutely right, Kelli. Like we went the opposite direction. Now we have too much information.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Mm.
Jonathan: And guess what? You can book your trips through AI. So I can pull up chat on my phone and say blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now book it. Congrats. But guess what? Without that discernment and human touch, are they going to get what they actually have in their brain? And that's a coin flip nowadays. So
Kelli Hayes Smith: Exactly. And that's the difference. And so I think we have to focus on on that. Okay. Are you ready for the next one? This one's wild.
Jonathan: Well, this one took twenty four minutes to get through, so I mean, how long are we going today? I'm just saying. Okay.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Well, we gotta we're gonna have to hurry through this or part one and two. Okay. South Carolina woman arrested for allegedly posing as a travel agent. A 61-year-old South Carolina woman was arrested after authorities alleged that she collected thousands of dollars from people for vacations she never actually booked. One woman reportedly paid more than $10,000 for three trips, including a Disney vacation. That woman actually had been a client before and booked travel successfully, so there was a level of trust. Authorities think there were additional victims and the woman is facing charges in two different counties.
Jonathan: Wow.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah. Okay. So I have a I have a question on this one. And we're gonna bring them all together at the end. Hopefully we get through this. But how do you how would you tell an agent at Legato, what would you tell them to tell customers, clients about verifying? Their identity. So, like if I'm a legato agent and I'm like, I'm worried that people won't believe I'm legitimate, what would you tell them? Check these things.
Jonathan: You know, one the first things that we'll start from the consumer side first. How about that?
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah, okay.
Jonathan: Consumer side, immediately go to the footer of any travel agent's website and look for what you'll you'll see for C S T, that means California seller of travel. You might see F L S O T, though it's Florida seller of travel. So in the footer of your website, and for all the gato agents out there, make sure to put your SOTs
Kelli Hayes Smith: It should be there. Yeah, it should be there.
Jonathan: in the footer of your website immediately. you can also If you're a travel agent as well, you can use your host credentials, whether they're ARC, IATA, CLIA, CCRA affiliated. well, let me back that up. I don't speak for other hosts, I speak for Legato. Rewind. With Legato, you can put the ARC, IATA, and CLIA images down there at the bottom. And what that means is it brings a level of professionalism that you are you have access, your ARC accredited, you have an arc arc. Accredited license that you have access to. You have an IATA, things like that. people can run the IATA and figure out if it's in good standing using IOTA's find a code as well. So there's a lot of ways to validate that piece, but immediately look towards the footer. So that's kind of the the compliance side of the house.
Kelli Hayes Smith: I like that.
Jonathan: first thing we look at when we're when we're betting a supplier is we immediately go to the footer of every supplier's website. We want to see Do they have trade associations? Do they have their licensure out there? Like, what exactly are we dealing with? And I have to say, I ran into some sub agent websites last week where I'm like, there's no footer. And I'm going, Out of compliance, we got you gotta get this going, folks. And couple were ours, a couple weren't. And I'm like, mm mm, that ain't not not good. So Legato agents, mental note for you guys, please, please put your SOT in the footer. in the
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah.
Jonathan: help center, there's a best protections best practice. Yeah.
Kelli Hayes Smith: There's an article because I just linked it in an email.
Jonathan: Ooh, there you go. So yeah, use that bad boy. so
Kelli Hayes Smith: No.
Jonathan: that's what I would do. And then it's really I recommend if you're gonna if you're if you're a travel agent, put an about us page or about me page, put a synopsis,
Kelli Hayes Smith: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan: what makes you you? Put a photo of you out there, a nice clean, professional photo or whatever. You know, if you're if you're selling Disney, put the ears on, whatever you choose to do, but like put a photo of you. Make sure that photo is on social media, is linked elsewhere in your marketing. Nowadays when we don't have storefronts, your online presence is your storefront. So
Kelli Hayes Smith: Always.
Jonathan: think about when you walk into any store and you see a person, especially if you're a small business and you see the owner or the proprietor on a regular basis, right? You'll see them over and over. You need to be in that same position and view your website, social media's email market, whatever your marketing is. Put your face out there. You know. Call it good.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah.
Jonathan: Don't be ashamed of it. I I my whole goal in life honestly has to be the Yeti and not be filmed as I'm sitting here on a podcast and doing all that stuff and it that backfired. But
Kelli Hayes Smith: And I I I love that because like this is one of the reasons why I tell people to show up on social with your own voice and your own photo and your own video because you're gonna be a whole lot more trustworthy if they're seeing you than if they're seeing a bunch of pictures. Like again, this comes back to AI and all of that. And we're sneaking into the next story, so While we're doing that, let's just go ahead. I'm gonna go ahead and read the third story because it's so close to this. Hold on, my synapses is down here. Okay. Travel we this is in Travel Weekly. AI is making travel fraud harder to detect. Travel Weekly published an article about how AI is making travel-related fraud increasingly sophisticated. Scammers can now use AI to create more convincing phishing emails, impersonate legitimate businesses, and even clone someone's voice. Which makes it harder for both travel professionals and consumers to recognize when something isn't right. It's not just about travelers getting scammed, but travel agents themselves can be targets, potentially putting client information, payments, and bookings at risk. So that goes back to this idea with this person, right? I mean, we are at a higher risk with AI. and so I think to me, the best way. Like I I think providing references is a good way. If you have a client who is nervous about working with you because they've seen these stories, like provide references to them. But also I think it's even more of a reason that you show up transparent and authentic.
Jonathan: Agreed. Yeah. And that's where, I think like for I immediately go to like systems and stuff like that. Like what can you do? And if I'm a just a I'll take it, I'll start on the consumer side. It's w I don't know for me would be the basics of knowing what website I'm putting my information into. So on the agent side, you know, using systems like Tern and Travefy that are secure, are
Kelli Hayes Smith: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan: all that type of stuff. You've got your your all your compliance workflows, you've got your Your compliance C UIA built in. So if you're if you're an agent that is not using those platforms or or any other ones in the industry, but for us, it's really Tern and Travefy. I it we're kind of past the days I would feel comfortable. I mean, we when we when I did retail work, we didn't use any of the itinerary planners, Tern wasn't around, Travefy was in its infancy, and we were just doing everything kind of by ourselves with spreadsheets and you know, free balling it. however I would not do that today. This the the fraudsters have gotten really, really good. So I'd recommend using compliance tools. we talk about recording voices as you and I are recording our voices. Something like that makes me feel real good right about now.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Recording our voice? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jonathan: so we get a voice distorter moving on. So
Kelli Hayes Smith: I know. Huh.
Jonathan: But I would start with I would start with systems and then educate your customers too. this is why I use Tern or Travefy. And here's what you're going to go through. We're going to go through a credit card authorization. It is your data. That that token is stored for 30 days. And here's why it's stored. And here's how I'm going to use it. very clearly tell them what you're doing. fraudsters aren't going to do that. They're not going to be honest with you. It's like they're not honest people or something. So Be honest with your customers. Tell them what the process is. What is it like booking with you? Not only from a from a sales and marketing perspective of, hey, here's the burden I take off. And here's here's all the the fluffy stuff that makes you feel warm and fuzzy, but here's the the back end of here's how I stay compliant. And you know, you're working with Logato. If you are, then we use, you know, so suppliers that are vetted. We talk to every single supplier in our network to make sure that they meet certain standards. so our agents, you know, feel comfortable that these are folks that we have relationships with. We built commercial agreements with, we've talked to them. that's big nowadays. I I
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah.
Jonathan: we we I know sometimes there's there's other there's other companies, it's their prerogative to let people book with whoever they want to, and that's that's great, fine, whatever. But at the end of the day, I think the the wiser choice is to understand your product, know your customer. And for us, it's knowing our agents and it's knowing our suppliers and then agents, it's knowing your customer as well and making sure that they feel warm and fuzzy. Get some referrals going, testimonials on your website, all that good stuff. So
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah. And I think too, one of the things you said, like be transparent about the system up front. And we talked about, I think it was last week where we mentioned an onboarding guide. And this would be great to put in it. but consumers should know that your bank account, other than if you are an agent who charges fees, then that's gonna route through you. Like that this fee is going through me. Other than that, all of your payments will be being made. to the supplier, not to
Jonathan: Yes.
Kelli Hayes Smith: me, not to the host. I the only thing that comes out of your bank account to me if you charge fees is your fee. everything else is routing through the supplier. So talking about that up front, if there's a concern, say, you know what, the only thing that you will pay me directly is this fee. Again, if that's something that you do. And everything else is routed through who you're booking your travel through, you'll have the invoice or whatever it is that's that tells them which company that is. And I think that that kind of transparency now is important. I think that they need to be, because there's also they could be expecting to see it come out to you. And now they see something on their charge for whatever, you need to let them know that this is what you're going to see on your bank account.
Jonathan: Agreed. Yeah, educating them beforehand, letting them know this is it's actually built into the law, seller of travel law, that you can't take travel funds into your bank account to pay the supplier on their behalf. You are in essence a middleman with that with that card. I always recommend, you know, travelers to use credit cards, not debit cards, just for additional protections there and stuff like that. there's just some I don't know what I would considered just some kind of basic e commerce rules to follow and I think as an agent making sure you're educating your customer on on what the experience looks like, how you're protecting their data, all that good stuff.
Kelli Hayes Smith: And that that would be great on just on an onboarding packet on a for somebody who wants it. just that information is this is how we take care of your information. This is how I use it, this is what happens, this is how it's stored, this is how I know it's safe. You know, all of those pieces, I think just the that again goes back to transparency. And here's the thing, though. Like when it comes to people like this who have been arrested, and this is not the first story of this. In the recent years. I mean, there have been a lot of these going around. But the transparency of saying this is how it works, but here's the thing a consumer will absolutely drop their debit card information into Chad GPT to book a room and have zero, zero can like concern about where that is. But sending it to a travel professional, we're gonna question on what's going on. And I get it because this the this is in the news. But also, my dad has purchased multiple things from golf stores online that are AI websites posed as golf stores that are just simply stealing his credit card information. And they have had to get multiple debit cards redone because my dog's getting ready to bark, I have a feeling. Sorry. Anyway, because of that, like because he's doing that, but they're not thinking about that. But giving it to someone causes pause. And again, it's because of stories like this. And so transparency and talking to them about it and not being afraid to talk about it matters.
Jonathan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Open, honest, transparent. You know, who to thunk. Well, and if and
Kelli Hayes Smith: Shocker. That's something that we want to do now? Really?
Jonathan: if you're gonna charge fees, good on you. Use Stripe, at least use PayPal. But like the those are systems that people, yeah, do
Kelli Hayes Smith: Don't cash app, Venmo.
Jonathan: not no Cash App, no Venmo, like no Apple Pay, no whatever Android has, Google Pay, whatever they have.
Kelli Hayes Smith: No.
Jonathan: use use professional services. It's worth the cost. Factor it into your fee. You're not paying it anyway. Let the customer pay it. Come on.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah, like that exactly. And then so, all right, see, we got through these last two. They all work together. That first one was a biggie.
Jonathan: Okay.
Kelli Hayes Smith: but I'm gonna ask you one last question on this. So, in this age of AI and information download at fingertips, if anyone can access travel information, what makes someone a travel professional?
Jonathan: I keep going back to the human side, the human
Kelli Hayes Smith: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan: skills of discernment, empathy, being able to read people, qual we can call it, you know, sales, you know, qualifying your customer, it's really just asking the right questions, you know, ears on, mouth closed type of approach. active listening skills, picking up on verbal cues. Yeah, it's it's really the soft. Touch that matters because you can go get your information, whether if it's from a supplier, a partner, a tourism board, a chat GPT at Google, it doesn't pick your poison where you get the information from. And there's a lot of information and in the trade, a lot of it's really good. It's just there's a lot of it. If you can connect with your customer on a human level, you're good. And I I actually just got off a coaching call. with one of our agents and she is really excited. She has a massive customer who is spending over half a million dollars one account on on with through our agency. They're Fortune five hundred company. And it it hit her that I I I I own a business. And she's you can tell like she's excited, but also like, boy, this is a this is a big this is a big deal, right? And I'm like, Yeah, this is a big deal. Really good, proud of you, good job. And there was this there was this kind of fear of, Well, how how do I not lose the account? And I walked her through, like, Well, how'd you get the account? And she told me how she got it and they had issues directly with one of the sub major suppliers in the industry and and she came in and and rescued and and took, you know, took the account over and treated them right and they want to only work with the small local agent, which she happens to be in that city of, you know, like twenty thousand people. like, well, they're that's A, you're small local, like good on you. You help take the account over, you gave them a great travel experience. And then she was talking, she's like, Yeah, they'll just call me up and they want to go on walks with me. Like, then go on the walk. And they just walk around town. I'm like, you've locked them in. Now walk with the confidence that they recognize that they want you. Do you want you is the question. Do
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah.
Jonathan: you view yourself that you're worthy of that account? Are you walking in that confidence and and not living in fear? You've obviously picked up on all their cues. You've supported them well. They're continuing. They're repeat clients now. Like this is it's yours to lose. And you don't get to that point. Unless people sense that you have their best interests at heart. And that's really
Kelli Hayes Smith: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan: what it is. Can I can they trust you with their travel dream? Can they trust you with their investment? You know, c whatever you want to call it. But ultimately that is a dream of theirs to travel. Can they trust you? And you think about what it takes to build trust and all that type of stuff and and walk with excellence and integrity. If you're doing those things, people pick up on it and they'll run to you.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah, that I mean, that's the perfect. I w done. Mic drop done. Like where I'm not gonna even try. That's exactly the case. And it we have to stop being afraid that something's gonna change and just keep being you. The only people I've said this before, I'll say it again. The only reason you need to be afraid is if you're if if that's how you're performing, if that's your service level. Then okay. But if you are doing your job and you're you're out there working at it, this is not a thing. It's just not.
Jonathan: No, people just wanna see you're listening, they're they're heard, you're doing your best. Most people do not expect perfection. They do expect a level of excellence and competency, but they also recognize travel is a is a cr it's a crazy world out there, and there's always something that's happening somewhere across the great big dirt ball, right? And they just wanna see that you show up, that you're available, you answer those questions, you you give them good information, you You take care of their vision and their dream, you take care of and let the let the rest deal with it. Like major on the majors and just let the minor stuff kind of flow.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Show up. Bar's not high.
Jonathan: Go up. Yo. No, it's not. Unfortunately, we need to raise the bar of this industry quite a bit. Yep.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Well, it and that's the thing is th there are a lot of agents who have raised the bar. Don't that's
Jonathan: Yeah.
Kelli Hayes Smith: not what I'm saying. If your competition is AI, if you are in direct competition with AI, the bar is low.
Jonathan: Was it last webinar last podcast? Was it open mic where I talking about my sandals CSS training? I forget. I was like, that's my competition?
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah, both. You did in both. But you know what I'm thinking of is Trida Again, Trita. This was on open mic the other day. We ha we like shouted her out. I hope she's listening to these. But she was talking about how her client
Jonathan: It'll be a test. We'll test her. Yeah.
Kelli Hayes Smith: got to Australia and the transfer got to the airport to pick up and called her and said, do you know where your client is? And she hunted them down. Found out they ended up just taking a taxi, but spent like four hours looking for this client, you know, who would not have known you were missing. She didn't need to. They were never lost. They didn't know that they people thought they were not there. But it someone cared enough to show up and pay attention to them. And really and truly, what we want in life is for someone to care about it. They we want someone to care about our vacation as much as they do. In this industry, that's what we want. This is an investment for most people. Most people are not
Jonathan: Yeah.
Kelli Hayes Smith: able to just drop an MX black down and say, whatever, I don't need a budget. And they're not doing that multiple times a year. It's an investment. And a travel professional is protecting their investment in a lot of different ways, both from the fraud and making sure they're using the right suppliers, but also protecting the dream that they are investing in by understanding and discerning that information because. If you're just put drawing something out of a hat, that's what ch choosing on ChatGPT or Google is, right? You're just drawing something out of a hat. I'm hoping that what I drew out was right. But the professional is making sure that it's right. And, you know, it would be like going to an in like a matchmaker who knows you and the person that they're matching you up with. They like know you rather than Tinder
Jonathan: I can't believe Tinder got a bad rap all of a sudden. Hmm. Shocker.
Kelli Hayes Smith: well, t Kylie Kecle and Jason Kecle met on Tinder, so it's not all bad. I got it in.
Jonathan: I know about that. You always draw back to somebody in the Taylor I will get through a podcast. That put market, I will get through a podcast without Taylor Swift.
Kelli Hayes Smith: No you won't. No you won't. Nah, I got it in. I got one in. And now we have our opening, so it's all good.
Jonathan: Great, look at that. It took the forty-five minutes in to get the opening. There we go.
Kelli Hayes Smith: I guess. Thanks for hanging with us. Jonathan, see us off.
Jonathan: All right. Thanks for being here. What am I I'm s we'll see you next Wednesday. There you go. Thanks for listening
Kelli Hayes Smith: Next Wednesday. Alright.
Jonathan: to Charting the Course with Jonathan and Kelli, presented by Legato
Kelli Hayes Smith: See y'all later. See y'all later. Bye.
Jonathan: I can't believe Tinder got a bad rap all of a sudden. Hmm. Shocker.
Kelli Hayes Smith: well, t Kylie Kecle and Jason Kecle met on Tinder, so it's not all bad. I got it in.
Jonathan: I know about that. You always draw back to somebody in the Taylor I will get through a podcast. That put market, I will get through a podcast without Taylor Swift.
Kelli Hayes Smith: No you won't. No you won't. Nah, I got it in. I got one in.
Jonathan: Welcome back to charting the course with Jonathan and Kelli. we're excited to have you guys here today.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah. So today is gonna be fun. I am going to I'm going over three travel stories that have been in the headlines recently that Jonathan knows nothing about because he doesn't read news. I don't think. Not on this. But
Jonathan: No, I don't like the news very much.
Kelli Hayes Smith: I do because I have my this is one of the things my AI does is bring me stories every day of travel industry news and These three have a lot in common and so many things different. So I I think if you're cool with it, Jonathan, I'm gonna do story by story. I'm gonna read that outline. We'll talk about it a little bit. We'll go to the next story and then we'll kind of put it all together in the end. Does that work?
Jonathan: I'm just here for the show. So yeah, let's roll. Yeah.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Okay. All right. All right. Let's do this. Okay. So the first one I want to talk about was in the the New York Post a few weeks, actually, I think it was a few weeks ago. It was in October, I know. So this was AI travel planning disasters. So I'm gonna give everybody a quick little like synopsis of this. The New York Post published an article about travelers running into some pretty significant problems when they used AI to plan their vacations. Incorrect visa information. Transportation recommendations that didn't actually exist, restaurants that were closed, and attractions that don't exist. What's interesting is these experiences are reportingly help drive travelers back towards professionals and travel agents again, particularly in the luxury market. So that's the story on that. I okay, so here's my question. Here's my question for you.
Jonathan: Mm-hmm.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Okay. So what's the difference? When I when I hear this, if AI can actually put together itineraries in like seconds, is this an is this going to strengthen a travel agent's ability, things that are happening like this to talk about it in the world? Or is something this is actually doing revealing weakness that some agents have in their business.
Jonathan: yes. Just yes. There you go.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah, exactly. To both.
Jonathan: Yes to both. So I do think it's wise to have a dialogue and talk about how, you know, we've got all the information at our fingertips. You know, first time in human history you've got the entire resources of libraries available to you. Yet somehow as a society we're not getting much brighter. So you can't have too much information.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Because machines are thinking for us.
Jonathan: Exactly. You need the cognition cognition, cognitive ability. There you go. As I say that trying to sound smart, whatever. The human touch of the industry, and we we've seen it for years, and again, growing up in the industry as as second generation, watching my dad go through this, going through, you know, when when the dot coms came out and Expedia and then Costco got into and it's just all that type of stuff. And every every tech toy, if you will, revolution that came out was supposedly, supposedly supposed to wipe out travel agents. And instead, it actually drove people back to it because at the end of the day, we are wired and designed for community. And we're designed to be around each other as far as human beings at first and foremost. And you can take that information and you can get very easily overwhelmed as a customer. You think about it from a from a trade side, from the travel agent side, we have a lot of information behind the scenes that the customers don't have that. We can feel comfortable as vetted and validated. We can call people up and get get really to the source of a lot of information that the customers don't have. And it's still overwhelming for us to track down the just the the amount of info out there, right? So the customer is even more handicapped because they don't have access to real information. And yeah, AI, yeah, I know there's stories all over the place with like you know, misquoting that, do you p steering people to the wrong place, the wrong Portland versus, you know, Oregon versus Maine. You hear all the stories out there. And it kind of reminds me of remember when GPS came out, like in your cars and people would follow GPS and not look at the road and drive into a lake. And there was more than one story of somebody plopping into a lake because they weren't looking ahead.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah, that's a little concerning. But it's not a lot different though than somebody getting on a plane to Maine instead of Oreg it it instead of Oregon. that's a wild take. Couple like there was a TikTok sa saga months and months ago that they got on a plane they were supposed to be going to France. It may have been Nice, and they ended up in
Jonathan: Mm.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Africa. And it was like Did nobody check that that
Jonathan: I
Kelli Hayes Smith: That this
Jonathan: mean
Kelli Hayes Smith: was not the right area. Like that's wild behavior. But also, yeah, but we are expecting machines to think for us. And so
Jonathan: Mm-hmm.
Kelli Hayes Smith: is anybody validating this information? First off, is anybody checking it? And is anybody, you know, double checking not just the information on the big pieces, but like the little pieces? Like, so one of these things, I know I didn't read the whole story, but like one of these was. Visa information, which, my God, that's important information. And the guy did not have the correct visa and he did not leave the airport. Like he could not go. So whole trip gone. One of them was like a train station that they said was gonna be nearby this hotel that did not exist. And so it could affect your whole trip, or it could affect just a you know, a little piece of it, but it makes it a whole lot more difficult. But Here's the thing. Is this exposing weakness in some in how some agents actually do their job?
Jonathan: Yeah, it is.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan: there's always you know you think about any industry, there's always you got your all stars, you got your middle, you got your kind of we'll call lazy lazy agents. I don't know how else to say that and I apologize if that's not we're gonna get in a life on that one. That's fine. Yeah, it's fine. You won't be the last one either.
Kelli Hayes Smith: I mean it it is we're probably gonna get eat in the comments and that's okay because I it's fine. It's not gonna be the first time or the last. No, but it's you're not wrong.
Jonathan: Yeah. If you wanna if you are going to rely on AI and any any tool, let me just rag on AI, but that's the new hot topic. But any tech tool, any tech platform, if you're going to allow that to take over your position in the sales cycle or in the service cycle or interfere with that relationship between you and your customer, then it will expose that weakness because at some point you are now. Interjecting something or someone else into the equation and then wondering where the sale went or why didn't it execute or why did I get a bad review or why didn't they come back? You know, pick your poison,
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yes.
Jonathan: but you can't turn over your business to somebody else and expect good things to happen, maybe.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah, well, they could could just cut out the middleman. So
Jonathan: Yeah.
Kelli Hayes Smith: several years ago, several years, I sat in a and I'll say where it was, I'm not gonna say who it was. I sat in a talk at the Las Vegas Travel Agent Forum. And I actually was there, we were sitting with David from Tern at that that that talk. And like He and I both were like crawling out of our skin with the conversation that was being had on the stage. And this actually two of them. I'm gonna actually tell two things. So the first one was the Las Vegas Travel Agent Forum and they were talking about this particular new tech platform. And the people on the panel were like, I don't even have to write my itineraries anymore. It just does it for me. And I'm like, what? Like I was shocked and I'm like, but why do you why are you doing this job? Like, why are you doing this job? Because my God, don't tell that I was I was flab. My flabbers were gasted, if you will. Okay. it was insane behavior. And then later s I was in with similar people, was also in a talk where someone was talking about how they could you could train AI to clone your voice. Clone your video and it would show up in your client calls for you. They would be on a Zoom call and it wouldn't be you. It was your AI avatar doing the talking to your client. Yet again, flabber's gasted. I'm like, what are we doing? Why are we here? Don't you can't advocate for the industry and then tell the industry, tell the people that you're that you're you don't have to be there. Like what?
Jonathan: That's that's asinine. I gonna call it that. It's insane. Cause it like at that point, it's a
Kelli Hayes Smith: It's it's insane! It's insane!
Jonathan: human powered indust. We are in a service industry which requires human interaction. It requires human touch, empathy, sympathy, kindness, compassion like it it requires the human, the soft touch that makes us
Kelli Hayes Smith: And I think
Jonathan: special and different from the machines.
Kelli Hayes Smith: And it's fraud, if you want to know my opinion. It is it is fraud to pretend
Jonathan: Mm-hmm.
Kelli Hayes Smith: like it's plagiar. First off, let's just call it plagiarism. If they are writing your itineraries and you're not touching it, you stole it from a robot because you didn't have any part in it. Like that is unethical, in my opinion. It is unethical.
Jonathan: Mm-hmm.
Kelli Hayes Smith: And if you are if you are scheduling a call with a client and it is an AI clone of you talking to the client. That's fraud. The way
Jonathan: Mm-hmm.
Kelli Hayes Smith: I would lose my mind if I knew that that had happened. Also, you can tell. I I'm I
Jonathan: Correct.
Kelli Hayes Smith: just I need to tell people that you can tell. Like I can
Jonathan: And the millennials out there will be like, Yeah, we can we got this spotted a mile away. Yep.
Kelli Hayes Smith: I know who it is. Yes. Like, cause I can pick out someone who has used AI on videos to talk for them in a heartbeat. Okay. Like,
Jonathan: Yeah.
Kelli Hayes Smith: there's no way this looks like you, comes across like you. It's it I I know. And who would and the way I would tell everybody, the way I would tell every person what they had done. Like I just can't I am so offended by that as someone who is advocating for this industry. And
Jonathan: Mm-hmm.
Kelli Hayes Smith: so if that's the things you're doing, AI is exposing your weakness and you are proving to the world that it's not necessary.
Jonathan: And and yeah, you do we do get fiercely protective, those of
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah.
Jonathan: us who are trying to advocate for the industry and make sure that we're bringing travel professionals and elevating and making sure that we are our community assets and resources and and actually taking our craft seriously. It is offensive when people just throw AI on and you're like, No, this is this is ridiculous. I can go do that on my own. Well, I can't help you. And I I was scrolling Instagram, right? And I saw this guy. He was doing an AI recruiting. You know, interview, HR interview, of course. And
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yes.
Jonathan: he put his own AI avatar in there and he left. And they continued doing just this whole they said goodbye. And he stopped the recording. I don't know, it must have been five minutes in or something. Because they were just in this infinite loop of goodbye. And it's like, folks, you have a great day.
Kelli Hayes Smith: You hang up, no you hang up, no you hang up, no you hang up.
Jonathan: You do that. And I'm like, I'm a smash a robot. What are you talking about here? We're gonna
Kelli Hayes Smith: Like, this is insane and
Jonathan: get raked over the coals for this one, though. I can tell you that.
Kelli Hayes Smith: well it but I I don't care because I believe the industry deserves people who show up. The the
Jonathan: Agreed.
Kelli Hayes Smith: lowest bar possible is showing up and doing it yourself. Like I I that's
Jonathan: Yeah, that's true.
Kelli Hayes Smith: the bar is not high if that's the bar and like my gosh. And I know too many agents who are like rock stars. And so
Jonathan: Correct.
Kelli Hayes Smith: I think I also get offended for them because I'm like when people are like, I'm spending all this time marketing. This is what I know. And this is a hot topic. We're we're off the rails. Shocker. Shocker. We're one story in. but we I so it there's a big thing, like people are trying to teach people to to edit reels on Claude. And I haven't tried it yet because there's a whole lot of teaching to it. And I'm not paying for a course on that. So I will figure it out myself, but I'm not figuring it out for it to do that. I wanna I wanna dissect it and see number one, can I tell a difference? And number two, does it actually work? Because here's the thing. If it does and it doesn't hurt the performance, then I'm gonna give agents an easier way to do this that takes their time, that takes l that gives them more time back. But I am starting to be able to peg when I'm scrolling who has edited their reels that way. And
Jonathan: Mm.
Kelli Hayes Smith: I'm not anti it, but also if it's gonna make it all look the same, is it eventually going to be worth it? The answer is gonna be no. So, like, what's the give and take? And it comes like I I would so much rather if an agent came to me and said, I have to delegate something to AI, I but I don't. I I don't know what to do. I in marketing would be like, Yes, a hundred percent let AI write your ca your captions for Instagram. I can teach you how to make AI sound more like you, but I would much rather you use AI to write your captions than show up at a client call.
Jonathan: Correct. Like lift use the tool to lift the administrative burden that every discipline has out there, right? Like we're I'm not anti AI. What I'm anti AI AI on is having
Kelli Hayes Smith: Right.
Jonathan: it replace the human. That's where I draw the line. And it is it is offensive when people when you hear agents doing it and you're like, dude, like you're just giving us all a bad rap. And and
Kelli Hayes Smith: And
Jonathan: and it's yeah, here's your hot take. Just please leave the industry.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Right. Well, but just because
Jonathan: That's gonna duke us on the comments.
Kelli Hayes Smith: you can doesn't mean you should. I've say that
Jonathan: Thank you.
Kelli Hayes Smith: to children all the time and I'm like, it sounds like some of these people need that talk.
Jonathan: It it's it's like, you know, we're in the process. I'm up here on the dining room because the basement's getting finished and stuff, and the contractor showed up and they're just great. But it's like hiring a contractor and then they show up with a robot. I'd be like, No, I'm out. Like I need I need craftsmanship and and we're
Kelli Hayes Smith: I would lose it. Yes.
Jonathan: hearing about, you know, the the carpenter downstairs, he's framing out, you are you doing trim and all that? And he's like, there's nothing plum in there because when they framed out the walls, they didn't bank on putting doors up. So it's all caddy wampus. So here he is as a craftsman and a human being, aligning all the trim. And you know what? It looks stunning. Period.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Great.
Jonathan: I I mean that now if he wants to use AI to send me a quote and an invoice and my my text reminders, my emails, good on you. Please do that. So that way you
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yes.
Jonathan: can specialize in the creative aspects of your business. Cause every every I'm not a creative person. Okay, for I don't try that you don't want me singing, right? but I my version of creativity is on the system side. And and we find most agents they love creating the itineraries and actually helping agents extract the dream, or I'm sorry, customers extract the dream in their head, like the vision that they everyone has, and taking that and almost, I don't want to say turning into a kind of a game, but like this this idea that I want to get that dream out of your head and I want to make it a reality. And they really get excited for that. So use your juices there, use the tools to lift the administrative burden, be more efficient, but my God, do not turn your business over to the machines and
Kelli Hayes Smith: And there was a time where as a travel agent the value was information. I mean, there was a time that that was the case. And I'm not saying that that all the information is on the interwebs. I'm not saying that. But information is everywhere. But it some information is useless. And the skill is skill, that was very Appalachian. The skill, that was very Appalachian. The skill is knowing what information matters to this client and how to use that information. And how to use, and that's that process. I don't know, this may not be the right definition, but I think that's discernment, right? Having all of the information, and here's the thing we can no longer be marketing ourselves as convenience because that's not a value proposition anymore. There was a time when I do all the research, I handle all of these things that convenience mattered, but now it's legitimately you can just talk to a machine and at any time, and you can that's your convenience is not it. So if that's not it and the information is not, they can get the information. Again, I realize that there's some information that's not there, but like let's let's give them that, then what's the value? And the value is discernment and expertise, and you can't get that. From a machine.
Jonathan: You can't and you can't pick up on you know, people will tell you stuff without telling you and reading the, you
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yes.
Jonathan: know, facial cues or picking up on hints. And I I I had a recruiting call, I think it was yesterday or the day before, and it and it was an older gentleman. He's in his tail end of his career and everything, and and he was wanting to make a a switch to Legato from an another host. And we were talking and and at the end of the day you could just you could just hear in his voice, he was kind of wanting to ask a question and he but it was almost kind of nervous, sheepish to let it rip. And and just asked him, I said, I it sounds like there's something on your mind there. And he said, you know, I I I'm on the tail end and I know that hosts are trying to get, you know, younger people and stuff like that. But I he's like, I'm just gonna be straight with you. I'm you know, I'm in my seventies and I'm I'm I do this for friends and family and I have a good book of business on repeat and referral. And but he's like, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna be a million dollar each. I'm I'm I'm enjoying the tail end of my career and I've worked hard to get here. And I said Well, l let me just stop you right there. If every sale at i we're in a volume industry. Every sale, every dollar matters. I don't care if you're in your seventies or if you're twenties or seventeen, like it it doesn't matter. And you could almost hear the relief in his voice
Kelli Hayes Smith: Mm.
Jonathan: that here he is. He just wanted to be affirmed that he mattered, that his sales mattered, that 25 plus years in the exp in the industry mattered, and
Kelli Hayes Smith: Mm.
Jonathan: that it was okay that this is where he's at in his career. And you could tell he was just kind of gotten beaten up because and I and I'm watching my I'm watching my father go through this, you know, in that same age bracket. It's in this idea that, you're you're that age, so therefore you're just kind of disposed. You're just kind of tucked away in a corner. And it's like that's so flatly offensive to those that generation. And the wisdom that they have, and all he wanted to hear was, you matter. It's worth it. And that's and
Kelli Hayes Smith: And and
Jonathan: you can't pick up on that with the machine. It was human, you know, interaction
Kelli Hayes Smith: No. And
Jonathan: doing that.
Kelli Hayes Smith: I that's sometimes why I hate text messages or like email because you can't get points across. I often in texting and in like DMs will use, especially when I'm a I'm passionate about something, I want to talk about something, use voice memos so that you can get influx in my voice and I can hear things. and I think it's just so important for For people to get that. And you can't get that from the machine will talk to you, but it's not picking up on the humanness in your voice. And I think if you're not showing up and you're not you, that discernment matters too. Like you have to be able to discern what there's clearly something that they want to ask you, but they're not ready. Like, you know, it there's just so many things out there. And AI is a people pleaser. Like, Have you ever pushed back on it and be like, well, no, actually, I like that. Actually, I was wrong. This is a great idea. It's a people pleaser. It's going to tell you what you want to hear. And so having someone who is willing to, and I think it's an important strategy, not a strategy, important attribute of an agent is that they're willing to say no to an to a client. Like it not even just no, I'm not going to take you as a client, but no, I'm not going to book that. resort for you because I don't think that that's the best one.
Jonathan: Correct. Or know the way that you have this vision in your head is maybe something that isn't actually real, you know, because they
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah. Yep.
Jonathan: saw it on, you know, Instagram or whatever, TikTok. And Yeah, it just you are correct. There's a level of discernment and it and it has to be there. Can you discern people's questions? Can you get to the root of the question? Because half the time the questions will lead to additional ones or lead to a deeper question. And generally Yeah y yeah, you can feed the machine and it can pump out an answer. Well bloody frickin' duh.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah. And the I I think it really more than AI gets it like I this is an important story to showcase that they get it wrong. Don't get me wrong. But I think the bigger idea in the industry and in where we have to go as we're talking about travel agents, travel professionals and the industry and as a business is to stop acting like it's a convenience because in my opinion, we lose that that. Because it's more convenient to pick up my phone and talk to AI at any point and not wait on an email back and not worry about business hours or whatever. That's not the focus anymore. And focusing on the discernment. And they have information overload. This is going to filter some information for them, but with how do you know it's the right information? And that again comes back to discernment. And so it's perspective, opinion, and discernment. from the agent that sets them apart, not just AI gets it wrong.
Jonathan: Agreed. And that you know, you think about, you know, pre internet, if you will. for those of us old enough to remember that. Like, yeah, you used to go to your library, write your papers, blah, blah, blah, if you were in school. And I remember watching my dad do that. Like back in the day, you you had travel guides and you had paper and you had get your brochures every year and it's and you go through all the
Kelli Hayes Smith: Call people.
Jonathan: the rendition of it, right? So yeah, getting getting information was big because there was a lack of information. And you're absolutely right, Kelli. Like we went the opposite direction. Now we have too much information.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Mm.
Jonathan: And guess what? You can book your trips through AI. So I can pull up chat on my phone and say blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now book it. Congrats. But guess what? Without that discernment and human touch, are they going to get what they actually have in their brain? And that's a coin flip nowadays. So
Kelli Hayes Smith: Exactly. And that's the difference. And so I think we have to focus on on that. Okay. Are you ready for the next one? This one's wild.
Jonathan: Well, this one took twenty four minutes to get through, so I mean, how long are we going today? I'm just saying. Okay.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Well, we gotta we're gonna have to hurry through this or part one and two. Okay. South Carolina woman arrested for allegedly posing as a travel agent. A 61-year-old South Carolina woman was arrested after authorities alleged that she collected thousands of dollars from people for vacations she never actually booked. One woman reportedly paid more than $10,000 for three trips, including a Disney vacation. That woman actually had been a client before and booked travel successfully, so there was a level of trust. Authorities think there were additional victims and the woman is facing charges in two different counties.
Jonathan: Wow.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah. Okay. So I have a I have a question on this one. And we're gonna bring them all together at the end. Hopefully we get through this. But how do you how would you tell an agent at Legato, what would you tell them to tell customers, clients about verifying? Their identity. So, like if I'm a legato agent and I'm like, I'm worried that people won't believe I'm legitimate, what would you tell them? Check these things.
Jonathan: You know, one the first things that we'll start from the consumer side first. How about that?
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah, okay.
Jonathan: Consumer side, immediately go to the footer of any travel agent's website and look for what you'll you'll see for C S T, that means California seller of travel. You might see F L S O T, though it's Florida seller of travel. So in the footer of your website, and for all the gato agents out there, make sure to put your SOTs
Kelli Hayes Smith: It should be there. Yeah, it should be there.
Jonathan: in the footer of your website immediately. you can also If you're a travel agent as well, you can use your host credentials, whether they're ARC, IATA, CLIA, CCRA affiliated. well, let me back that up. I don't speak for other hosts, I speak for Legato. Rewind. With Legato, you can put the ARC, IATA, and CLIA images down there at the bottom. And what that means is it brings a level of professionalism that you are you have access, your ARC accredited, you have an arc arc. Accredited license that you have access to. You have an IATA, things like that. people can run the IATA and figure out if it's in good standing using IOTA's find a code as well. So there's a lot of ways to validate that piece, but immediately look towards the footer. So that's kind of the the compliance side of the house.
Kelli Hayes Smith: I like that.
Jonathan: first thing we look at when we're when we're betting a supplier is we immediately go to the footer of every supplier's website. We want to see Do they have trade associations? Do they have their licensure out there? Like, what exactly are we dealing with? And I have to say, I ran into some sub agent websites last week where I'm like, there's no footer. And I'm going, Out of compliance, we got you gotta get this going, folks. And couple were ours, a couple weren't. And I'm like, mm mm, that ain't not not good. So Legato agents, mental note for you guys, please, please put your SOT in the footer. in the
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah.
Jonathan: help center, there's a best protections best practice. Yeah.
Kelli Hayes Smith: There's an article because I just linked it in an email.
Jonathan: Ooh, there you go. So yeah, use that bad boy. so
Kelli Hayes Smith: No.
Jonathan: that's what I would do. And then it's really I recommend if you're gonna if you're if you're a travel agent, put an about us page or about me page, put a synopsis,
Kelli Hayes Smith: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan: what makes you you? Put a photo of you out there, a nice clean, professional photo or whatever. You know, if you're if you're selling Disney, put the ears on, whatever you choose to do, but like put a photo of you. Make sure that photo is on social media, is linked elsewhere in your marketing. Nowadays when we don't have storefronts, your online presence is your storefront. So
Kelli Hayes Smith: Always.
Jonathan: think about when you walk into any store and you see a person, especially if you're a small business and you see the owner or the proprietor on a regular basis, right? You'll see them over and over. You need to be in that same position and view your website, social media's email market, whatever your marketing is. Put your face out there. You know. Call it good.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah.
Jonathan: Don't be ashamed of it. I I my whole goal in life honestly has to be the Yeti and not be filmed as I'm sitting here on a podcast and doing all that stuff and it that backfired. But
Kelli Hayes Smith: And I I I love that because like this is one of the reasons why I tell people to show up on social with your own voice and your own photo and your own video because you're gonna be a whole lot more trustworthy if they're seeing you than if they're seeing a bunch of pictures. Like again, this comes back to AI and all of that. And we're sneaking into the next story, so While we're doing that, let's just go ahead. I'm gonna go ahead and read the third story because it's so close to this. Hold on, my synapses is down here. Okay. Travel we this is in Travel Weekly. AI is making travel fraud harder to detect. Travel Weekly published an article about how AI is making travel-related fraud increasingly sophisticated. Scammers can now use AI to create more convincing phishing emails, impersonate legitimate businesses, and even clone someone's voice. Which makes it harder for both travel professionals and consumers to recognize when something isn't right. It's not just about travelers getting scammed, but travel agents themselves can be targets, potentially putting client information, payments, and bookings at risk. So that goes back to this idea with this person, right? I mean, we are at a higher risk with AI. and so I think to me, the best way. Like I I think providing references is a good way. If you have a client who is nervous about working with you because they've seen these stories, like provide references to them. But also I think it's even more of a reason that you show up transparent and authentic.
Jonathan: Agreed. Yeah. And that's where, I think like for I immediately go to like systems and stuff like that. Like what can you do? And if I'm a just a I'll take it, I'll start on the consumer side. It's w I don't know for me would be the basics of knowing what website I'm putting my information into. So on the agent side, you know, using systems like Tern and Travefy that are secure, are
Kelli Hayes Smith: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan: all that type of stuff. You've got your your all your compliance workflows, you've got your Your compliance C UIA built in. So if you're if you're an agent that is not using those platforms or or any other ones in the industry, but for us, it's really Tern and Travefy. I it we're kind of past the days I would feel comfortable. I mean, we when we when I did retail work, we didn't use any of the itinerary planners, Tern wasn't around, Travefy was in its infancy, and we were just doing everything kind of by ourselves with spreadsheets and you know, free balling it. however I would not do that today. This the the fraudsters have gotten really, really good. So I'd recommend using compliance tools. we talk about recording voices as you and I are recording our voices. Something like that makes me feel real good right about now.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Recording our voice? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jonathan: so we get a voice distorter moving on. So
Kelli Hayes Smith: I know. Huh.
Jonathan: But I would start with I would start with systems and then educate your customers too. this is why I use Tern or Travefy. And here's what you're going to go through. We're going to go through a credit card authorization. It is your data. That that token is stored for 30 days. And here's why it's stored. And here's how I'm going to use it. very clearly tell them what you're doing. fraudsters aren't going to do that. They're not going to be honest with you. It's like they're not honest people or something. So Be honest with your customers. Tell them what the process is. What is it like booking with you? Not only from a from a sales and marketing perspective of, hey, here's the burden I take off. And here's here's all the the fluffy stuff that makes you feel warm and fuzzy, but here's the the back end of here's how I stay compliant. And you know, you're working with Logato. If you are, then we use, you know, so suppliers that are vetted. We talk to every single supplier in our network to make sure that they meet certain standards. so our agents, you know, feel comfortable that these are folks that we have relationships with. We built commercial agreements with, we've talked to them. that's big nowadays. I I
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah.
Jonathan: we we I know sometimes there's there's other there's other companies, it's their prerogative to let people book with whoever they want to, and that's that's great, fine, whatever. But at the end of the day, I think the the wiser choice is to understand your product, know your customer. And for us, it's knowing our agents and it's knowing our suppliers and then agents, it's knowing your customer as well and making sure that they feel warm and fuzzy. Get some referrals going, testimonials on your website, all that good stuff. So
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah. And I think too, one of the things you said, like be transparent about the system up front. And we talked about, I think it was last week where we mentioned an onboarding guide. And this would be great to put in it. but consumers should know that your bank account, other than if you are an agent who charges fees, then that's gonna route through you. Like that this fee is going through me. Other than that, all of your payments will be being made. to the supplier, not to
Jonathan: Yes.
Kelli Hayes Smith: me, not to the host. I the only thing that comes out of your bank account to me if you charge fees is your fee. everything else is routing through the supplier. So talking about that up front, if there's a concern, say, you know what, the only thing that you will pay me directly is this fee. Again, if that's something that you do. And everything else is routed through who you're booking your travel through, you'll have the invoice or whatever it is that's that tells them which company that is. And I think that that kind of transparency now is important. I think that they need to be, because there's also they could be expecting to see it come out to you. And now they see something on their charge for whatever, you need to let them know that this is what you're going to see on your bank account.
Jonathan: Agreed. Yeah, educating them beforehand, letting them know this is it's actually built into the law, seller of travel law, that you can't take travel funds into your bank account to pay the supplier on their behalf. You are in essence a middleman with that with that card. I always recommend, you know, travelers to use credit cards, not debit cards, just for additional protections there and stuff like that. there's just some I don't know what I would considered just some kind of basic e commerce rules to follow and I think as an agent making sure you're educating your customer on on what the experience looks like, how you're protecting their data, all that good stuff.
Kelli Hayes Smith: And that that would be great on just on an onboarding packet on a for somebody who wants it. just that information is this is how we take care of your information. This is how I use it, this is what happens, this is how it's stored, this is how I know it's safe. You know, all of those pieces, I think just the that again goes back to transparency. And here's the thing, though. Like when it comes to people like this who have been arrested, and this is not the first story of this. In the recent years. I mean, there have been a lot of these going around. But the transparency of saying this is how it works, but here's the thing a consumer will absolutely drop their debit card information into Chad GPT to book a room and have zero, zero can like concern about where that is. But sending it to a travel professional, we're gonna question on what's going on. And I get it because this the this is in the news. But also, my dad has purchased multiple things from golf stores online that are AI websites posed as golf stores that are just simply stealing his credit card information. And they have had to get multiple debit cards redone because my dog's getting ready to bark, I have a feeling. Sorry. Anyway, because of that, like because he's doing that, but they're not thinking about that. But giving it to someone causes pause. And again, it's because of stories like this. And so transparency and talking to them about it and not being afraid to talk about it matters.
Jonathan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Open, honest, transparent. You know, who to thunk. Well, and if and
Kelli Hayes Smith: Shocker. That's something that we want to do now? Really?
Jonathan: if you're gonna charge fees, good on you. Use Stripe, at least use PayPal. But like the those are systems that people, yeah, do
Kelli Hayes Smith: Don't cash app, Venmo.
Jonathan: not no Cash App, no Venmo, like no Apple Pay, no whatever Android has, Google Pay, whatever they have.
Kelli Hayes Smith: No.
Jonathan: use use professional services. It's worth the cost. Factor it into your fee. You're not paying it anyway. Let the customer pay it. Come on.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah, like that exactly. And then so, all right, see, we got through these last two. They all work together. That first one was a biggie.
Jonathan: Okay.
Kelli Hayes Smith: but I'm gonna ask you one last question on this. So, in this age of AI and information download at fingertips, if anyone can access travel information, what makes someone a travel professional?
Jonathan: I keep going back to the human side, the human
Kelli Hayes Smith: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan: skills of discernment, empathy, being able to read people, qual we can call it, you know, sales, you know, qualifying your customer, it's really just asking the right questions, you know, ears on, mouth closed type of approach. active listening skills, picking up on verbal cues. Yeah, it's it's really the soft. Touch that matters because you can go get your information, whether if it's from a supplier, a partner, a tourism board, a chat GPT at Google, it doesn't pick your poison where you get the information from. And there's a lot of information and in the trade, a lot of it's really good. It's just there's a lot of it. If you can connect with your customer on a human level, you're good. And I I actually just got off a coaching call. with one of our agents and she is really excited. She has a massive customer who is spending over half a million dollars one account on on with through our agency. They're Fortune five hundred company. And it it hit her that I I I I own a business. And she's you can tell like she's excited, but also like, boy, this is a this is a big this is a big deal, right? And I'm like, Yeah, this is a big deal. Really good, proud of you, good job. And there was this there was this kind of fear of, Well, how how do I not lose the account? And I walked her through, like, Well, how'd you get the account? And she told me how she got it and they had issues directly with one of the sub major suppliers in the industry and and she came in and and rescued and and took, you know, took the account over and treated them right and they want to only work with the small local agent, which she happens to be in that city of, you know, like twenty thousand people. like, well, they're that's A, you're small local, like good on you. You help take the account over, you gave them a great travel experience. And then she was talking, she's like, Yeah, they'll just call me up and they want to go on walks with me. Like, then go on the walk. And they just walk around town. I'm like, you've locked them in. Now walk with the confidence that they recognize that they want you. Do you want you is the question. Do
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah.
Jonathan: you view yourself that you're worthy of that account? Are you walking in that confidence and and not living in fear? You've obviously picked up on all their cues. You've supported them well. They're continuing. They're repeat clients now. Like this is it's yours to lose. And you don't get to that point. Unless people sense that you have their best interests at heart. And that's really
Kelli Hayes Smith: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan: what it is. Can I can they trust you with their travel dream? Can they trust you with their investment? You know, c whatever you want to call it. But ultimately that is a dream of theirs to travel. Can they trust you? And you think about what it takes to build trust and all that type of stuff and and walk with excellence and integrity. If you're doing those things, people pick up on it and they'll run to you.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah, that I mean, that's the perfect. I w done. Mic drop done. Like where I'm not gonna even try. That's exactly the case. And it we have to stop being afraid that something's gonna change and just keep being you. The only people I've said this before, I'll say it again. The only reason you need to be afraid is if you're if if that's how you're performing, if that's your service level. Then okay. But if you are doing your job and you're you're out there working at it, this is not a thing. It's just not.
Jonathan: No, people just wanna see you're listening, they're they're heard, you're doing your best. Most people do not expect perfection. They do expect a level of excellence and competency, but they also recognize travel is a is a cr it's a crazy world out there, and there's always something that's happening somewhere across the great big dirt ball, right? And they just wanna see that you show up, that you're available, you answer those questions, you you give them good information, you You take care of their vision and their dream, you take care of and let the let the rest deal with it. Like major on the majors and just let the minor stuff kind of flow.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Show up. Bar's not high.
Jonathan: Go up. Yo. No, it's not. Unfortunately, we need to raise the bar of this industry quite a bit. Yep.
Kelli Hayes Smith: Well, it and that's the thing is th there are a lot of agents who have raised the bar. Don't that's
Jonathan: Yeah.
Kelli Hayes Smith: not what I'm saying. If your competition is AI, if you are in direct competition with AI, the bar is low.
Jonathan: Was it last webinar last podcast? Was it open mic where I talking about my sandals CSS training? I forget. I was like, that's my competition?
Kelli Hayes Smith: Yeah, both. You did in both. But you know what I'm thinking of is Trida Again, Trita. This was on open mic the other day. We ha we like shouted her out. I hope she's listening to these. But she was talking about how her client
Jonathan: It'll be a test. We'll test her. Yeah.
Kelli Hayes Smith: got to Australia and the transfer got to the airport to pick up and called her and said, do you know where your client is? And she hunted them down. Found out they ended up just taking a taxi, but spent like four hours looking for this client, you know, who would not have known you were missing. She didn't need to. They were never lost. They didn't know that they people thought they were not there. But it someone cared enough to show up and pay attention to them. And really and truly, what we want in life is for someone to care about it. They we want someone to care about our vacation as much as they do. In this industry, that's what we want. This is an investment for most people. Most people are not
Jonathan: Yeah.
Kelli Hayes Smith: able to just drop an MX black down and say, whatever, I don't need a budget. And they're not doing that multiple times a year. It's an investment. And a travel professional is protecting their investment in a lot of different ways, both from the fraud and making sure they're using the right suppliers, but also protecting the dream that they are investing in by understanding and discerning that information because. If you're just put drawing something out of a hat, that's what ch choosing on ChatGPT or Google is, right? You're just drawing something out of a hat. I'm hoping that what I drew out was right. But the professional is making sure that it's right. And, you know, it would be like going to an in like a matchmaker who knows you and the person that they're matching you up with. They like know you rather than Tinder
Jonathan: I can't believe Tinder got a bad rap all of a sudden. Hmm. Shocker.
Kelli Hayes Smith: well, t Kylie Kecle and Jason Kecle met on Tinder, so it's not all bad. I got it in.
Jonathan: I know about that. You always draw back to somebody in the Taylor I will get through a podcast. That put market, I will get through a podcast without Taylor Swift.
Kelli Hayes Smith: No you won't. No you won't. Nah, I got it in. I got one in. And now we have our opening, so it's all good.
Jonathan: Great, look at that. It took the forty-five minutes in to get the opening. There we go.
Kelli Hayes Smith: I guess. Thanks for hanging with us. Jonathan, see us off.
Jonathan: All right. Thanks for being here. What am I I'm s we'll see you next Wednesday. There you go. Thanks for listening
Kelli Hayes Smith: Next Wednesday. Alright.
Jonathan: to Charting the Course with Jonathan and Kelli, presented by Legato
Kelli Hayes Smith: See y'all later. See y'all later. Bye.
