Genesis 16 Discussion

WEBVTT
00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:12.320
And welcome back to a chapter a day.
00:00:12.640 --> 00:00:13.439
Keeps the devil away.
00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:15.839
And we're looking at Genesis chapter 16.
00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:18.719
With me is none other than Brianna Mota.
00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:19.440
Hello.
00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:20.480
Muhammad Ali.
00:00:20.800 --> 00:00:21.120
Yep.
00:00:21.280 --> 00:00:22.399
And Cody Sparks.
00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:23.039
Still here.
00:00:23.199 --> 00:00:27.280
And I'm Pastor Pleck, really excited about bringing Genesis 16 to you.
00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:27.760
All right.
00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:34.560
So observations right off the top on this very famous story of Sarah and her husband Abram.
00:00:34.799 --> 00:00:36.640
I would love to hear a female's perspective.
00:00:36.799 --> 00:00:38.799
What you're thinking about, what's going on Sarah's head.
00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:40.640
It's really hard to fathom this.
00:00:41.359 --> 00:00:46.399
Would you ever talk go tell your husband, like, listen, you deserve some children?
00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:47.200
Nope.
00:00:47.439 --> 00:00:48.159
Nope.
00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:50.000
What do you think about it?
00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:51.359
Do you think that's her motivation?
00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:51.840
No, yeah.
00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:53.439
She's thinking of him?
00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:55.439
No, she's definitely thinking about herself.
00:00:55.520 --> 00:00:56.079
Yeah.
00:00:56.399 --> 00:01:03.520
But I mean, the way she presents it, she says, Behold, the Lord's prevented me from bearing children.
00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:04.719
Like, I can't have any kids.
00:01:04.799 --> 00:01:06.959
Now you should go have sex with this other woman.
00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:09.760
And Abram's like, I guess.
00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:11.200
That's what I'm saying.
00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:13.920
I'm like, if you really want me to, I guess.
00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:16.400
She's probably like 20, 30 years younger.
00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:16.879
Yeah.
00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:20.159
Um, you know, she's still got it.
00:01:20.239 --> 00:01:21.599
She's not married to anybody else.
00:01:22.239 --> 00:01:23.519
Fresh, clean person.
00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:24.560
Yeah, I don't know.
00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:25.599
It's it's wild to me.
00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:27.599
It is weird to think about.
00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:29.359
And she is an Egyptian.
00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:30.159
I don't know.
00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:31.840
I don't know if that really does anything for him.
00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:34.400
But it's wild to me that that that would happen.
00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:37.359
So there's no way you would ever that would never be your conclusion.
00:01:37.599 --> 00:01:38.560
Not a chance.
00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:41.040
Yeah, it's it's like one of those deals like.
00:01:41.439 --> 00:01:42.719
Then she gets upset.
00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:45.040
Yeah, like what do you think would happen?
00:01:45.519 --> 00:01:47.200
Um Dang it, I didn't want that.
00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:48.719
I feel like women are like that today.
00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:49.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:50.000
Go ahead and do that.
00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:51.359
Yeah, this is the double bind.
00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:53.200
It's like damn, damned if you don't.
00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:53.760
Are you sure?
00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:57.040
You sure you want me to go out with my friends and not stay home and hang out with you guys?
00:01:57.599 --> 00:01:58.640
Yeah, go ahead.
00:01:59.120 --> 00:01:59.760
Are you sure?
00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:00.239
Yeah.
00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:02.879
And then all hell breaks loose when you actually do do that.
00:02:02.959 --> 00:02:03.040
Yeah.
00:02:03.439 --> 00:02:05.680
If he didn't do it, she's like, Well, I told you to go have sex with her.
00:02:05.760 --> 00:02:07.280
We could have had a kid by now if you just done that.
00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:10.719
And you're like, you're just like, There's no winning.
00:02:10.960 --> 00:02:12.080
There's no winning.
00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:21.199
Um, so yeah, I I think this is a situation where Abram was in a double bind, but he needed to have led her because he's not trusting God here.
00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:21.680
Yep.
00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:23.680
Any any thoughts from you, Mo on that?
00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:40.400
Man, I'm like at this point, God hasn't even like revealed the law to where it would be immoral to have like multiple wives or even to have like a concubine.
00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:40.879
Right.
00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:47.520
So I don't even so to me, the wrong isn't even that Abraham is having sex with another lady.
00:02:47.919 --> 00:02:54.240
You I think you could argue that at this point, like, I don't know if it was right, if it was wrong, or whatever.
00:02:54.319 --> 00:03:00.159
I think the big thing was God said that she is gonna have your kid and he didn't trust that.
00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:00.560
Right.
00:03:00.719 --> 00:03:08.159
Because the second that he goes, okay, I guess I'm gonna go have a kid with her, is not only is it sexually immoral, maybe, maybe not.
00:03:08.319 --> 00:03:09.439
To me, that's the second thing.
00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:15.280
The ultimate thing is he doesn't believe God the same way that he just believed God.
00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:15.680
Right, yeah.
00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:16.719
In the chapter before that.
00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:19.599
And I think that's why it comes Genesis 15 is followed by Genesis 16.
00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:21.199
It's like, and I think this is our heart, right?
00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:21.520
Yep.
00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:23.759
God, I believe I'm ready to follow you anywhere.
00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:26.319
And then, hey, do you want to have sex with my servant?
00:03:26.560 --> 00:03:26.879
Okay.
00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:29.039
You know, like, yes, I do.
00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:30.080
Yes, I do.
00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:31.280
I think that's problematic.
00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:45.199
And to your point, one thing that he does do, and I don't know if this is Hagar's doing, or sorry, if this is Sarah's doing or Abram's doing, but she makes him or she makes Hagar a wife and not a concubine, which I thought was odd.
00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:52.000
Yeah, because that was now she still had first wife status, which is a big deal, but he didn't have to take her as a wife.
00:03:52.159 --> 00:04:04.479
He could have had her as a concubine, and she could have been the you know, the sex person on the side, but she went, he went full-on wife, which means he's supposed to provide for her, take care of her in the same way he's taking care of Hagar.
00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:10.879
And then when he says, Behold, she's your servant, he's kind of going back on his word that he had made with Hagar.
00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:15.439
Uh, and I don't know, because you know, what's the conversation look like when he's about to have sex with her?
00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:23.040
Hey, listen, your mistress, Sarah said I could have sex with you, or maybe uh Sarah comes like, Hey, listen, I need you to have sex with my husband.
00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:26.879
Like, no matter what, as Hagar, you are screwed.
00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:37.519
There is no way this turns out good for you because I don't care who you are and what culture you grew up in, someone gives you to be your husband's mistress, that's just not gonna go well.
00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:50.879
Like, I I can't think of unless you're truly brainwashed, like, but that just goes against the your just concept of nature, nature to like, oh, I'm gonna jealousy.
00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:55.360
If brothers have jealousy, like so I have four sons, they have jealousy about my time.
00:04:55.519 --> 00:05:03.839
Yeah, so of course, a husband with two wives in the same tent, so to speak, are gonna have a little bit of jealousy rise up.
00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:05.759
I think that's a clear thing.
00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:08.879
Um, any other thoughts there, Cody from the Cody Sparks fam?
00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:10.000
No, not at the moment.
00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:12.480
Just thinking of how you would say no to that.
00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:19.120
Well, it's like, is there anything that you've ever wanted so bad that you would do anything to do?
00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:20.240
Right, there you go.
00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:20.560
Yeah.
00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:24.800
And to go, I mean, I even wonder like how long did they like talk about this?
00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:26.879
How long was she like pushing on him to do it?
00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:31.920
Oh, you know, probably wasn't one time where she said, Hey, you should do this, and he was like, Okay.
00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:33.759
It was probably like, Are you sure?
00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:35.600
And they probably conversed about it for a while.
00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:36.480
Oh, that's a good point.
00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:40.319
And then finally was like, Okay, you want this that bad, okay.
00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:44.720
So, and shouldn't fall into listening to women again.
00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:45.279
Yeah.
00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:52.240
Um, the next thing I thought was fun was yeah, the angel of the Lord came to Hagar.
00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:56.800
Like, what's that about?
00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:16.160
Like, I no granted, uh like this is God's love and compassion, even for those whose lineage would not end up being the savior of the world, would end up being the primary, like from Ishmael comes all the Arabic nations around Israel that are constantly threatening Israel.
00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:16.800
Right.
00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:19.439
And so that to me is wild.
00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:21.680
Like that it's confusing.
00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:28.720
It's um it's like you're setting up your own drama, but based on human choices that were very poor.
00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:38.480
And so I think what God does is he takes our poor choices and then he can redeem it, like he does here for Hagar and her son.
00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:41.040
And there's consequences to our bad choices, right?
00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:45.040
But God can bring beauty from the ashes, which you know, you can even look at your own life.
00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:54.160
Like here you are today as a person that maybe of has come at least partially from that relationship, and now you're a child of God, and how powerful a story that is.
00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:57.279
So, anyway, thought there.
00:06:58.160 --> 00:06:58.560
Good.
00:06:58.959 --> 00:07:04.319
Yeah, I like uh but to me, this is Jesus showing up, the angel of the Lord.
00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:13.600
Um, and and then like she was dealt with so bad by these people that she was serving, and she did everything she was asked of her.
00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:15.839
It was like, oh, go have sex with your husband, like, okay.
00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:16.160
Yep.
00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:18.000
Um, and now I'm pregnant.
00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:23.519
And then I love how she says in verse 13 that you are a God of seeing.
00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:27.680
Uh for true for she said, truly here I have seen him who looks after me.
00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:36.240
So it's really cool that even here Jesus is showing up to uh to to someone who's not Abram and Sarah.
00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:37.759
And he was faithful to her.
00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:39.439
And it was faithful to her.
00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:45.759
Um, and then you know, she he he would keep her, and then he would say that like he's gonna have land or something like that.
00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:46.160
Right.
00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:47.360
But there would be conflict.
00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:47.920
Yeah.
00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:48.240
Yep.
00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:49.120
Yeah, I love that.
00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:51.199
I mean, it's just here's the consequence of sin.
00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:51.600
Yep.
00:07:51.759 --> 00:07:56.639
And ultimately Jesus is gonna be the ultimate one, the Jesus that shows up here, which is sort of wild to think about.
00:07:56.720 --> 00:07:56.959
Yeah.
00:07:57.199 --> 00:08:05.040
Like the um a theophany or a Christophany, where Jesus shows up in a preincarnate form of some sort as an angel here.
00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:07.839
Because it's not just it's an it's the angel of the Lord.
00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:11.839
She says, I saw or um, you are a god of seeing.
00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:14.879
So she's called you are a god of seeing, yeah.
00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:17.920
And truly I've seen him who looks after me.
00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:22.079
Um, which is this is gonna get you to Elroy, God, the God who sees.
00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:24.480
Yeah, and I I man, that's powerful.
00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:34.240
Um, that that this woman, Hagar, again, she she didn't sign up for this, but God pursued and sought her and said, I'm gonna have a relationship with you.
00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:35.840
And told her to do something difficult.
00:08:36.159 --> 00:08:38.080
Go back and submit to her.
00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:40.960
To an abusive situation.
00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:43.360
You mean the one who just screwed me over?
00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:44.559
You know what I'm saying?
00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:45.759
Yeah, that's tough.
00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:47.279
Yeah, like yeah.
00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:53.279
Now, granted, uh Hagar had a little bit of contempt for her for her, and she wasn't super submissive and probably that.
00:08:53.360 --> 00:08:59.120
And so now she's having to bite her own pride at the, you know, which is sort of wild that sort of kind of wrapped it all around your head.
00:08:59.279 --> 00:08:59.759
Yep.
00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:01.840
Um, all right, point of application.
00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:03.120
For so for you, what would we say?
00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:04.639
What would we what would you do with this?
00:09:04.879 --> 00:09:06.320
Go submit to your husband.
00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:06.879
Yeah.
00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:20.879
Honestly, just trust whatever God is speaking to him is the truth, because even if I pressure him into doing what I think is right, it can come back and bite me in the butt.
00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:21.360
Right.
00:09:21.440 --> 00:09:22.240
Uh, that's huge.
00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:30.639
I and I think that's true for a a lot of women that are, you know, when at Genesis 3, you know, your desire will be for your husband, he will rule over you.
00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:34.720
There is this innate desire to control your husband, to get him to do what he's supposed to do.
00:09:34.879 --> 00:09:43.200
Um, and ultimately that turns out bad for um both the husband and wife, but trusting the Lord for him to lead will bless you in a really unique way.
00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:46.799
Uh yeah, I I think for me it is taking God at his word.
00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:53.919
Like there are promises that I could shortcut and I could take control of the situation and just will it to happen.
00:09:54.080 --> 00:10:12.240
Um, and I I think that happens a lot for me with relationships, and I and I'm I know a lot of information and I want to take control or you know, head something off of the past, as opposed to letting it happen as the way that God is is is making it happen and trying to discern is it is me, is that me being passive or is that me being trusting?
00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:14.879
What's the you know, and really trying to discern the difference?
00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:20.960
And I think what if Abram would have sought God in this situation, God would have spoken to him.
00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:28.080
I think this is the part where when you're used to God coming to talking to you, you don't think about let's go talk to God.
00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:33.039
And there are times where Abram does go, he sets up an altar and he worships the Lord and the Lord speaks to him.
00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:33.840
It's really powerful.
00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:35.519
Why not do more of that?
00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:37.200
Especially to your point, Cody.
00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:38.080
I do think you're right.
00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:41.279
I don't think it was just one day she has a weird thought and he's like, All right.
00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:47.120
You know, I think it's like over and over he wears, she wears him down, and he's not seeing it happen.
00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:49.759
He's like, Well, maybe this is the way that God had a plan.
00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:50.399
Yeah.
00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:51.600
What about you, Mo?
00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:53.360
Uh, two things.
00:10:53.519 --> 00:10:58.639
I mean, my great-great-great-grandpa Ishmael is apparently a wild donkey of a man.
00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:00.480
That's fun.
00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:02.480
Um, that's that's really fun.
00:11:02.720 --> 00:11:12.480
Uh, and then two, uh uh, you know, the same thing that God tells her as he tells me when I'm being wronged in a situation I shouldn't be in, Jesus tells me, I see you.
00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:14.080
Now go do hard things.
00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:15.840
I see, oh, I see you, go do hard things.
00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:16.159
Wow.
00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:17.679
I see you, go do hard th I love that.
00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:19.039
I see you, go do hard things.
00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:19.679
Yep.
00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:22.000
Cody, any final thoughts?
00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:22.879
Nope.
00:11:23.039 --> 00:11:23.279
All right.
00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:24.559
Yeah, I love it.
00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:26.320
I see you, go do hard things.
00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:28.720
That that might be what uh you need to hear this morning.
00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:29.519
I see you.
00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:31.679
Go submit, do hard things.
00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:32.799
The Lord is with you.
00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:34.720
Hey, thanks so much for watching.
00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:37.519
We'll see you tomorrow on chapter day.