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The thing that makes vertical storytelling so addictive is all right.
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Please welcome John McLean, president of the Workbook, the man who's helping shape the future of how filmmakers, actors, and productions connect.
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John, you've spent years supporting traditional film and television.
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What made you realize that vertical storytelling was becoming a genuine evolution in the film industry?
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Well, it really has been an evolution.
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You know, we we started to see probably around uh late 2024, early 2025, a number of casting directors that were posting on our site looking for vertical actors for their productions.
00:00:49.759 --> 00:00:58.640
And Vancouver being kind of Hollywood North and all a number of productions starting out here, um, we saw it as a trend that was happening.
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Didn't know a lot about it, to be quite honest.
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And in a former life that I had, um I was uh a venture capitalist in Hong Kong, and we had invested in a film fund.
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And so I started to get telephone calls in early 25 saying, hey John, have you heard about these something called vertical?
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And I no, I don't know what you're talking about.
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But the more that we saw uh breakdowns, casting calls coming on our platform for verticals, we said we better take a look at this.
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And so we started to do deep research on it.
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Um by probably the third quarter, fourth quarter of 2025, we came to the conclusion that this was not a fad, this was not something that was gonna come and go quickly, that this was a new media type.
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It was gonna live alongside film and television, it was gonna evolve because it's very new, and it was gonna adapt from the Asian market to the North American market.
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So we thought that that was an area that we really wanted to invest in, both time, energy, and support.
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And you're correct, we have been doing film and television and voice and theater uh and commercials for a very long period of time, and so we started to adapt to that, supporting the casting director, supporting the talent.
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And the two things that we found in our research was uh first off, education was missing, and we heard that by a number of speakers here today of saying, you know, people uh didn't know what it was, where it was going.
00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:29.520
So we we did two things.
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We promoted it heavily in a in a dedicated magazine uh edition that we have, where we actually interviewed and had on panel a number of people working in the industry.
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We streamed it live.
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Uh to my shock, it was picked up in 21 countries.
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And um and once we did that, we thought, okay, well, the education is out there now, but what's the second thing that's missing?
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And we concluded that uh what was required was investment capital.
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Um producers had been commissioned to do productions, they learned how this format worked, and many of them realized and and earned obviously fees in doing it, but realized that they were not an owner of the IP and that um now they wanted to own IP.
00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:21.520
And so we stepped in and a bit because of my background in finance, we were able to put together a program.
00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:26.879
So we have a full ecosystem now that is casting uh talent.
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We have some production software that we is very beneficial in the uh in the vertical space, and now we're investing alongside producers in the um in the production of verticals, again, co-owner of uh the intellectual property as we move forward.
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Sorry, long-winded answer to your question, but that's okay.
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No, that was a fantastic answer.
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So so obviously you've seen the industry evolve for decades.
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So, and you've talked about the different things that the workbook is doing.
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So, what would you say excites you the most about what the workbook is doing for the vertical space?
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I would say the um the support and the um growth of talent for it, and that we want to do everything that we can to support that, because as the talent pool grows, um again you'll have more productions coming to whatever market you were in, and in particular here in Victoria.
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Um and if we can help the talent understand that vertical can be a very viable option, particularly to the uh for entrance into the career.
00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:46.079
Um we're finding now that many vertical actors are now moving to film and television.
00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:55.199
But what's really, I think, encouraging for the industry as well, and and the vertical itself, is that many still come back and do verticals because they like it.
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It moves fast, gives them an opportunity to hone and practice their career.
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And I always I always say to people, take a look back at the soap operas in the 60s.
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How many of those that are on there became megastars?
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Um and so there is an opportunity to really support the talent and help their growth.
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That's what we're uh uh really focused on.
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And as a vertical actor, I thank you for that.
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Um so you spoke about this creation fund.
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So can you tell us what it is and what opportunities it could create for filmmakers who are working in this vertical space?
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Sure.
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Yeah, so it's uh called creator capital.
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Um it is uh managed by the workbook, and and we view it as a component in the ecosystem of casting talent, uh production software, and investment capital to help producers to have their uh their projects uh uh have the investment in their projects to be able to complete the project.
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Uh we really have started out looking at um opportunities where there was more than just one production, uh, because we'll also act as the distributor for that.
00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:19.279
So we're working with the platforms, and the platforms are really most interested if you're coming to them, unless they've commissioned it.
00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:23.600
Uh they're they're looking for a slate of projects.
00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:38.959
And while we're not necessarily walking in to say, here's three completed projects, we like to have at least one that's either in camera, it's already gone to camera or about to go to camera with the script ready for the next two after that.
00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:49.040
And that way there's an opportunity to have it licensed by the platform and therefore the producer to have a share of the IP for the future.
00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:56.079
Because the beauty of these is they're digital, they live forever online, you can still get hits three years later on it.
00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:00.480
And um, so I think it's really important for the producers to share in that upside.
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Thank you so much.
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Um, another question.
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I know the the creators that are here today and that are listening um on the video cast, they're wondering if you were starting your career today in this industry, where I mean, there's so many places to focus, where would you focus your energy?
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Uh broadly speaking, I would be a creator.
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I think that um the that's the most interesting thing uh sector of our industry, right, at this point in time, I believe, is and our next magazine that's coming out in August is dedicated uh and focused on creators, creator studios, and the creator economy.
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And we have interviews with um uh the heads of creator studios, which are smaller, obviously, and and you're able to, I mean there's one in New Jersey that's just finished, it's a quarter million square feet of space, 21 sound stages, all pre-lit.
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And so you need a bedroom for the morning to film, you need a uh uh a kitchen, a jail, a grocery store, what and two of them, and two of the uh studios have LED walls.
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And we're talking to one of the uh major schools that has a creator major um uh USC.
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We're interviewing them in the uh for the magazine.
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Um we're talking to the head of production for Viral Nation, one of the largest uh influencer platforms in the world.
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So the whole creator economy, the uh creators and opportunity who would have thought that two of the top um box office hits would be by creators coming out of YouTube um, you know, less than a month ago.
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And I just think you're gonna see more and more of that.
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And that is the groundswell with within the industry, um, because that just brings and and we always say uh one of the big things about uh on the creator side and and given the opportunity to have creators have capital to make their projects, COVID and the strikes had everyone sitting at home with their phone, and actors became creators.
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And so they will do both of those now, and we want to support both the acting side and the creative side.
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So I want to just take it back to casting as an actor.
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Love to talk about that.
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So obviously, you've seen thousands of careers, you know, that have been started and and have grown through the workbook.
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Looking back, what do you think separates the people who built lasting acting careers from those who didn't?
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They invested in themselves.
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Um they acting is a muscle, and you have to practice it and practice it and practice it.
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And um what we can help with is we can help getting to the audition, but that's where we stop.
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Um and then it's up to the the actor at that point in time.
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We use our center stage magazine to be able to provide supportive education on that, whether it's helping people with mindset, um, how to have the right mindset, don't go home from the audition so high that you think you won it, don't go home so low that you didn't think you didn't get it.
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Um we just recently launched something on our platform called My Performance, which leads to an audition ratio.
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And what my performance is designed to do is to give, and we we we uh kind of tailored it after the movie Moneyball, where that team, the Oakland 80s were losing like crazy, and it's a true story, uh a little fictional when they had Brad Pitt in the movie, but um, they took data that the players had and said, How can you improve your craft?
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Essentially.
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And so what we've done, and we just launched it, um, which allows actors to um look at a dashboard, and there's about five criteria that are laid out that gives them live feedback and it gives them insights.
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If my data is not showing up like I would like it to show up, is what can I do to improve that?
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Do I need a headshot that's you know updated because it's 20 years old?
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Is my resume outdated?
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Do I need a demo reel of commercial if I'm to send a demo reel and commercial if I'm uh submitting to a commercial as opposed to a film and television one?
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Um so we're really trying to provide the actors with um data that and insights that can help advance their career.
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Um and one of the things we uh we launched it version one, and very quickly actors come back and said, Well, that's great, but you know, I'm also on this platform and that platform and this platform.
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And we're asked, you know, could we link into those platforms?
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Well, no, because we're all competitors.
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But what we did was we opened it up so that an actor has a very easy way to put all of their information, auditions that they may have done, uh self-tapes they may have done on other platforms, auditions they may have had on other platforms, to put it on our our platform and give a holistic view of that person's um uh performance, if you will, and then we rank it generalized against um industry and global standards.
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So where do you rank?
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And and again, it's not designed to do anything but give you the data to improve your craft.
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I love that.
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I love data.
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Um we have one more question.
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It's a fill-in-the-blank, it's a it's a it's a secret question.
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You don't know about this question, so I'm just gonna shoot it at you.
00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:40.240
All right.
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W the thing that makes vertical storytelling so addictive is the cliffhanger.
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The cliffhanger.
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Followed very, very, very, very, very closely with the hook.
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Um, and that hook has to happen quickly.
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And uh and and I think that there again, the soap operas led to that.
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I mean, the telenovelas, we have a very big platform in Mexico, so we have a lot of telenovelas that are come out of our platform.
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And so a lot of the similarities, but as you heard from a few of the uh the folks on the stage just uh in the last session, is it is moving into other uh uh sectors.
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You heard Monica talking, or I think it was Monica or maybe Tieron talking about wrestling with uh Real Short.
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And if you think about wrestling, it's a soap opera, right?
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It's got that hook and it's got the spike and it's got the cliffhanger, just constantly through the whole thing.
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So anything that kind of grabs that attention quickly.
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Um, and I was really curious to see how sports would work in this, and because I'm thinking, how do you get on a vertical screen uh football team, Watson?
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And um, just this past week, good timing by inverted launched a soccer one.
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Now it's got a soap opera bent to it, but it's kind of the first sports one that's out there as well.
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So you're really gonna see this moving and evolving into other things.
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But I think you know the cliffhanger is the thing that gets everybody coming back, you know.
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I I think Dallas probably was the first one to really get that one.
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Who shot JR?
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Who shot JR?
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Was it a dream?
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I think it was a dream.
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Well, it apparently was.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Thank you so much, John.
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It was a real pleasure speaking with you today.
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Thank you.
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Thank you.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:11.599
The thing that makes vertical storytelling so addictive is all right.
00:00:11.679 --> 00:00:21.280
Please welcome John McLean, president of the Workbook, the man who's helping shape the future of how filmmakers, actors, and productions connect.
00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:26.079
John, you've spent years supporting traditional film and television.
00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:31.920
What made you realize that vertical storytelling was becoming a genuine evolution in the film industry?
00:00:32.399 --> 00:00:35.200
Well, it really has been an evolution.
00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:49.520
You know, we we started to see probably around uh late 2024, early 2025, a number of casting directors that were posting on our site looking for vertical actors for their productions.
00:00:49.759 --> 00:00:58.640
And Vancouver being kind of Hollywood North and all a number of productions starting out here, um, we saw it as a trend that was happening.
00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:01.119
Didn't know a lot about it, to be quite honest.
00:01:01.439 --> 00:01:10.000
And in a former life that I had, um I was uh a venture capitalist in Hong Kong, and we had invested in a film fund.
00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:16.319
And so I started to get telephone calls in early 25 saying, hey John, have you heard about these something called vertical?
00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:18.319
And I no, I don't know what you're talking about.
00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:26.480
But the more that we saw uh breakdowns, casting calls coming on our platform for verticals, we said we better take a look at this.
00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:29.760
And so we started to do deep research on it.
00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:44.319
Um by probably the third quarter, fourth quarter of 2025, we came to the conclusion that this was not a fad, this was not something that was gonna come and go quickly, that this was a new media type.
00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:53.760
It was gonna live alongside film and television, it was gonna evolve because it's very new, and it was gonna adapt from the Asian market to the North American market.
00:01:53.920 --> 00:02:00.799
So we thought that that was an area that we really wanted to invest in, both time, energy, and support.
00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:15.360
And you're correct, we have been doing film and television and voice and theater uh and commercials for a very long period of time, and so we started to adapt to that, supporting the casting director, supporting the talent.
00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:27.759
And the two things that we found in our research was uh first off, education was missing, and we heard that by a number of speakers here today of saying, you know, people uh didn't know what it was, where it was going.
00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:29.520
So we we did two things.
00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:40.159
We promoted it heavily in a in a dedicated magazine uh edition that we have, where we actually interviewed and had on panel a number of people working in the industry.
00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:42.000
We streamed it live.
00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:44.960
Uh to my shock, it was picked up in 21 countries.
00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:51.919
And um and once we did that, we thought, okay, well, the education is out there now, but what's the second thing that's missing?
00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:58.000
And we concluded that uh what was required was investment capital.
00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:15.680
Um producers had been commissioned to do productions, they learned how this format worked, and many of them realized and and earned obviously fees in doing it, but realized that they were not an owner of the IP and that um now they wanted to own IP.
00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:21.520
And so we stepped in and a bit because of my background in finance, we were able to put together a program.
00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:26.879
So we have a full ecosystem now that is casting uh talent.
00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:43.919
We have some production software that we is very beneficial in the uh in the vertical space, and now we're investing alongside producers in the um in the production of verticals, again, co-owner of uh the intellectual property as we move forward.
00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:46.479
Sorry, long-winded answer to your question, but that's okay.
00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:48.319
No, that was a fantastic answer.
00:03:48.479 --> 00:03:52.719
So so obviously you've seen the industry evolve for decades.
00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:56.879
So, and you've talked about the different things that the workbook is doing.
00:03:57.120 --> 00:04:03.520
So, what would you say excites you the most about what the workbook is doing for the vertical space?
00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:27.439
I would say the um the support and the um growth of talent for it, and that we want to do everything that we can to support that, because as the talent pool grows, um again you'll have more productions coming to whatever market you were in, and in particular here in Victoria.
00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:40.000
Um and if we can help the talent understand that vertical can be a very viable option, particularly to the uh for entrance into the career.
00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:46.079
Um we're finding now that many vertical actors are now moving to film and television.
00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:55.199
But what's really, I think, encouraging for the industry as well, and and the vertical itself, is that many still come back and do verticals because they like it.
00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:59.439
It moves fast, gives them an opportunity to hone and practice their career.
00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:03.839
And I always I always say to people, take a look back at the soap operas in the 60s.
00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:07.120
How many of those that are on there became megastars?
00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:13.839
Um and so there is an opportunity to really support the talent and help their growth.
00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:17.040
That's what we're uh uh really focused on.
00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:20.480
And as a vertical actor, I thank you for that.
00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:23.680
Um so you spoke about this creation fund.
00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:31.279
So can you tell us what it is and what opportunities it could create for filmmakers who are working in this vertical space?
00:05:31.600 --> 00:05:31.920
Sure.
00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:34.879
Yeah, so it's uh called creator capital.
00:05:35.199 --> 00:06:00.160
Um it is uh managed by the workbook, and and we view it as a component in the ecosystem of casting talent, uh production software, and investment capital to help producers to have their uh their projects uh uh have the investment in their projects to be able to complete the project.
00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:11.680
Uh we really have started out looking at um opportunities where there was more than just one production, uh, because we'll also act as the distributor for that.
00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:19.279
So we're working with the platforms, and the platforms are really most interested if you're coming to them, unless they've commissioned it.
00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:23.600
Uh they're they're looking for a slate of projects.
00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:38.959
And while we're not necessarily walking in to say, here's three completed projects, we like to have at least one that's either in camera, it's already gone to camera or about to go to camera with the script ready for the next two after that.
00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:49.040
And that way there's an opportunity to have it licensed by the platform and therefore the producer to have a share of the IP for the future.
00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:56.079
Because the beauty of these is they're digital, they live forever online, you can still get hits three years later on it.
00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:00.480
And um, so I think it's really important for the producers to share in that upside.
00:07:00.959 --> 00:07:02.160
Thank you so much.
00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:03.680
Um, another question.
00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:20.000
I know the the creators that are here today and that are listening um on the video cast, they're wondering if you were starting your career today in this industry, where I mean, there's so many places to focus, where would you focus your energy?
00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:24.560
Uh broadly speaking, I would be a creator.
00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:44.319
I think that um the that's the most interesting thing uh sector of our industry, right, at this point in time, I believe, is and our next magazine that's coming out in August is dedicated uh and focused on creators, creator studios, and the creator economy.
00:07:44.480 --> 00:08:00.639
And we have interviews with um uh the heads of creator studios, which are smaller, obviously, and and you're able to, I mean there's one in New Jersey that's just finished, it's a quarter million square feet of space, 21 sound stages, all pre-lit.
00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:12.000
And so you need a bedroom for the morning to film, you need a uh uh a kitchen, a jail, a grocery store, what and two of them, and two of the uh studios have LED walls.
00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:19.920
And we're talking to one of the uh major schools that has a creator major um uh USC.
00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:23.040
We're interviewing them in the uh for the magazine.
00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:30.560
Um we're talking to the head of production for Viral Nation, one of the largest uh influencer platforms in the world.
00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:44.080
So the whole creator economy, the uh creators and opportunity who would have thought that two of the top um box office hits would be by creators coming out of YouTube um, you know, less than a month ago.
00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:46.879
And I just think you're gonna see more and more of that.
00:08:47.120 --> 00:09:10.240
And that is the groundswell with within the industry, um, because that just brings and and we always say uh one of the big things about uh on the creator side and and given the opportunity to have creators have capital to make their projects, COVID and the strikes had everyone sitting at home with their phone, and actors became creators.
00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:16.639
And so they will do both of those now, and we want to support both the acting side and the creative side.
00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:20.960
So I want to just take it back to casting as an actor.
00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:22.480
Love to talk about that.
00:09:22.720 --> 00:09:30.639
So obviously, you've seen thousands of careers, you know, that have been started and and have grown through the workbook.
00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:38.080
Looking back, what do you think separates the people who built lasting acting careers from those who didn't?
00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:40.559
They invested in themselves.
00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:48.320
Um they acting is a muscle, and you have to practice it and practice it and practice it.
00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:56.960
And um what we can help with is we can help getting to the audition, but that's where we stop.
00:09:57.440 --> 00:10:01.039
Um and then it's up to the the actor at that point in time.
00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:16.639
We use our center stage magazine to be able to provide supportive education on that, whether it's helping people with mindset, um, how to have the right mindset, don't go home from the audition so high that you think you won it, don't go home so low that you didn't think you didn't get it.
00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:22.799
Um we just recently launched something on our platform called My Performance, which leads to an audition ratio.
00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:47.279
And what my performance is designed to do is to give, and we we we uh kind of tailored it after the movie Moneyball, where that team, the Oakland 80s were losing like crazy, and it's a true story, uh a little fictional when they had Brad Pitt in the movie, but um, they took data that the players had and said, How can you improve your craft?
00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:48.159
Essentially.
00:10:48.320 --> 00:11:03.440
And so what we've done, and we just launched it, um, which allows actors to um look at a dashboard, and there's about five criteria that are laid out that gives them live feedback and it gives them insights.
00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:09.440
If my data is not showing up like I would like it to show up, is what can I do to improve that?
00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:13.679
Do I need a headshot that's you know updated because it's 20 years old?
00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:15.440
Is my resume outdated?
00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:23.759
Do I need a demo reel of commercial if I'm to send a demo reel and commercial if I'm uh submitting to a commercial as opposed to a film and television one?
00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:32.639
Um so we're really trying to provide the actors with um data that and insights that can help advance their career.
00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:44.080
Um and one of the things we uh we launched it version one, and very quickly actors come back and said, Well, that's great, but you know, I'm also on this platform and that platform and this platform.
00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:47.360
And we're asked, you know, could we link into those platforms?
00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:49.919
Well, no, because we're all competitors.
00:11:50.159 --> 00:12:17.120
But what we did was we opened it up so that an actor has a very easy way to put all of their information, auditions that they may have done, uh self-tapes they may have done on other platforms, auditions they may have had on other platforms, to put it on our our platform and give a holistic view of that person's um uh performance, if you will, and then we rank it generalized against um industry and global standards.
00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:18.320
So where do you rank?
00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:24.720
And and again, it's not designed to do anything but give you the data to improve your craft.
00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:26.320
I love that.
00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:27.519
I love data.
00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:31.840
Um we have one more question.
00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:36.320
It's a fill-in-the-blank, it's a it's a it's a secret question.
00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:39.360
You don't know about this question, so I'm just gonna shoot it at you.
00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:40.240
All right.
00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:48.879
W the thing that makes vertical storytelling so addictive is the cliffhanger.
00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:50.879
The cliffhanger.
00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:55.759
Followed very, very, very, very, very closely with the hook.
00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:58.799
Um, and that hook has to happen quickly.
00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:05.200
And uh and and I think that there again, the soap operas led to that.
00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:12.559
I mean, the telenovelas, we have a very big platform in Mexico, so we have a lot of telenovelas that are come out of our platform.
00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:24.320
And so a lot of the similarities, but as you heard from a few of the uh the folks on the stage just uh in the last session, is it is moving into other uh uh sectors.
00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:30.240
You heard Monica talking, or I think it was Monica or maybe Tieron talking about wrestling with uh Real Short.
00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:33.200
And if you think about wrestling, it's a soap opera, right?
00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:38.960
It's got that hook and it's got the spike and it's got the cliffhanger, just constantly through the whole thing.
00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:41.840
So anything that kind of grabs that attention quickly.
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:50.320
Um, and I was really curious to see how sports would work in this, and because I'm thinking, how do you get on a vertical screen uh football team, Watson?
00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:56.080
And um, just this past week, good timing by inverted launched a soccer one.
00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:02.080
Now it's got a soap opera bent to it, but it's kind of the first sports one that's out there as well.
00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:05.840
So you're really gonna see this moving and evolving into other things.
00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:09.279
But I think you know the cliffhanger is the thing that gets everybody coming back, you know.
00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:13.279
I I think Dallas probably was the first one to really get that one.
00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:14.240
Who shot JR?
00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:15.360
Who shot JR?
00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:16.799
Was it a dream?
00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:18.399
I think it was a dream.
00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:19.519
Well, it apparently was.
00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:20.399
Yeah, yeah.
00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:21.840
Thank you so much, John.
00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:23.519
It was a real pleasure speaking with you today.
00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:24.320
Thank you.
00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:25.279
Thank you.
