WEBVTT
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.279
I'm so excited to share Lisanne Godnik with you.
00:00:03.520 --> 00:00:21.760
She is a psychologist and therapist, and she focuses on individuals and couples and helping them restore their confidence and move through their relationships gracefully, not only in relationship, but individuals in relationship with themselves, how to heal and how to move through their life with ease.
00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:28.320
And something that I really love about this podcast episode is that Lisanne speaks from her heart.
00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:44.719
She shares her story around gaining weight and losing weight and that being a cycle and what her relationship was like to her body, to that internal voice and that constant back and forth and push and pull and what that journey was like.
00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:47.600
I think that's going to awaken a lot for so many of you.
00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:58.479
She also talks about her divorce and how that impacted her life and how it impacts her own leadership and how she mentors and leads couples into their own form of healing.
00:00:58.719 --> 00:01:09.840
So I'm really looking forward to you hearing this podcast and be sure to listen to the end, share a review, share it with the people that you love and the people that you might think would benefit from this message.
00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:10.959
I appreciate you.
00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:12.239
Let's get started.
00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:25.359
I would love for you to share what it means, what body intelligence means, and what how you've been in relationship with that and how it's really led you to where you are right now.
00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:30.319
And please begin um with your experience with this.
00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:33.519
So um, you know, body experience.
00:01:33.599 --> 00:01:37.280
I've been I've been a psychotherapist in Manhattan for 40 years.
00:01:37.359 --> 00:01:49.040
And for me, the part of my body, the two parts of my body that actually have always been the key has been my brain and my heart, and three ears and my ears.
00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:49.519
Okay.
00:01:49.840 --> 00:02:00.640
But when I met with you um and and spoke with you in this time too, and you had me basically put my hand on my heart and hit my hand on my stomach and close my eyes.
00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:01.120
Right.
00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:12.479
What what became really clear to me, and I was surprised uh actually that this did happen, is that the noise quieted.
00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:25.039
And um that I began to sort of sit with things and and feel things the way they were right here and right now.
00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:27.520
And if it was uncomfortable, it was uncomfortable.
00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:35.439
If it was comfortable, it was comfortable, but that I didn't have to use my thoughts to move away from what I was feeling physically.
00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:37.759
Wow, that happened so quickly.
00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:46.080
I mean, before we got on this, you know, and before we hit record, we did a little body set moment and you got there in that short amount of time.
00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:47.039
I I did.
00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:47.520
I did.
00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:48.319
That's incredible.
00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:48.719
How?
00:02:48.879 --> 00:02:50.960
What do you think was going on for you?
00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:59.199
And for those, I'm just gonna say for those that are listening, the body set position is hand on your heart, hand on your stomach, you close your eyes.
00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:07.840
It's really a quieting of the mind of the body to really set, to set yourself up to hear the wisdom from within.
00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:09.280
So that's what we're talking about.
00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:10.159
Okay, so go ahead.
00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:14.879
But you know, along those lines, I I practice yoga and I practice meditation.
00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:15.599
Right.
00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:24.240
And I don't usually have the same quiet experience that I did this time with you and the first time I spoke with you.
00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:24.479
Right.
00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:27.120
And I think that speaks to the relationship.
00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:28.159
Okay.
00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:38.879
And as a therapist, pretty much everything I do speaks to the relationship, whether it be one's relationship to oneself or one's relationship to the other.
00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:39.360
Right.
00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:43.599
That that I think it has to do with connection and relating.
00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:45.599
Do you think it has to do with trust?
00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:51.520
I think trust is an enormous uh component of connection.
00:03:51.680 --> 00:04:06.960
And I think trust is much harder for certain people than other people's based based on a host of reasons, in large part their history and what they've been through and the relationships and the connections that they've had.
00:04:07.599 --> 00:04:16.639
That's one of the things I focus primarily on is trying to find a way to not have your past.
00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:23.199
Your past will inform your current state, but it doesn't have to dictate your current state.
00:04:23.519 --> 00:04:23.839
Right.
00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:24.399
Right.
00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:27.040
Well, that's part of what this work is all about.
00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:38.000
That body intelligence partly comes from our experiences growing up and hearing the wisdom and the lessons we're meant to learn.
00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:47.120
And the body intelligence, for me, I see it as an entity that was within us when we were in the womb.
00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:52.720
You know, it's there, it's spiritual, it's source, it's God, it's whatever people want to call it.
00:04:52.959 --> 00:04:58.480
So it's this combination of intelligence that collects through time.
00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:00.240
So yeah, I agree with you.
00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:02.240
We don't, we're not our past.
00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:04.959
It can inform us of who we are.
00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:10.480
So, how do we listen to it with trust uh without feeling like we're that?
00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:17.920
Because if we're dealing with trauma, we don't want to attach to our trauma and say, Oh, that's who I am, instead, find the nuggets of intelligence within the experience.
00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:19.279
So, how do you how do you do that?
00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:22.160
And we don't want to pretend there wasn't trauma.
00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:25.839
What we want to do is find a balance somewhere in the middle, yeah.
00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:33.839
Um, because I believe that when we when we try to move away from things constantly, we just push them down, push them down, and push them down, right?
00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:42.480
And they come up in a host of different ways rather than saying this happened all of it, right?
00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:45.600
And it doesn't have to be happening now, right?
00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:50.000
And I didn't cause it to happen.
00:05:50.319 --> 00:05:50.720
Right.
00:05:51.199 --> 00:06:11.600
And when you when you incorporate that concept into things, I didn't cause the other person's issues and trauma that was imposed upon you, it's extremely liberating because you get to say, wow, I don't I don't have to be on that leash forever.
00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:13.279
Right, exactly.
00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:22.079
How do you help people um have a relationship with their past without reliving their past?
00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:34.639
One of the things that I do is I have I have an intense experience with my patient about their past.
00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:38.560
Doesn't mean that we spend every session talking about a mother and a father.
00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:43.199
Absolutely not, because I I believe that the most important thing is the here and now.
00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:43.920
Right.
00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:52.319
But we have to understand where we came from in order to understand where we're going and in order in order to go to a new place.
00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:52.879
Right.
00:06:53.120 --> 00:06:54.959
We want to change the address.
00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:56.879
We don't want to go back home all the time.
00:06:57.120 --> 00:07:00.399
Even if there were lovely things about home, we want to build a new home.
00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:22.879
So we do so by understanding the feelings, by talking about the pain, by talking about the love, by talking about the fear, by recognizing that one of the ways we stay connected to our past, because we don't want to let it go, because it was such a huge part of us, is by repeating the same behavior in our current relationships.
00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:26.079
It keeps us connected to the trauma and the past.
00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:29.920
And it's like it's like being in quicksand, you're not moving at all.
00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:44.079
So it has to also do with a grieving and a giving up and a mourning and saying, There were things I loved about you, but goodbye because it's too painful to stay there.
00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:45.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:59.279
So in order to get out of the pattern, we have to recognize the pattern and the root of it to create a new pathway home, which I really love how you said, you know, changing the address.
00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:08.240
For me, when I heard you say that, I'm thinking about to me, the new address, it's not a new address, it's an old address, it's the address of you, of your soul.
00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:08.959
It's customer.
00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:10.399
The original address.
00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:10.720
Right.
00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:11.199
Right.
00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:15.759
The original print before anybody came in and did any renovation.
00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:19.040
Started messing it up and started taking you out.
00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:32.559
You know, there's a lot around, you know, owning that too, the being taken out, like that, you know, not blaming someone for it, but instead, this was meant for me for whatever reason to learn whatever it is I'm meant to learn.
00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:33.600
Do you agree with that?
00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:35.279
I a hundred percent.
00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:42.480
And I I believe that just like staying attached to the trauma keeps us connected to our past, right?
00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.480
Blaming is a huge way of staying connected.
00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:46.960
Right.
00:08:47.279 --> 00:08:49.600
You're not giving up the fight, right?
00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:57.759
So there's no movement forward as long as you're constantly taking steps backwards, and blaming is about backwards movement.
00:08:58.000 --> 00:08:58.960
Yeah, yeah.
00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:17.120
I love this whole concept of really identifying the why, like why we stay in those same patterns, you know, why we relive and how, but the and so now I'm like, okay, so how do we let go and be in relationship in a different way, in an empowered way?
00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:30.320
So do you take your clients through any kind of um exploration or discovery around who they are so they can return to this beautiful person that they that they are?
00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:37.039
Well, first of all, it's not only a return, but it's a rediscovery because most don't most of us don't even know it was there.
00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:37.919
Right, right.
00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:38.720
You know?
00:09:39.039 --> 00:09:55.039
Um and a lot of the work that I work uh often with individuals, but I also work a lot with couples, and I've kind of created this program called Divorce Recovery, where it kind of starts in couples therapy.
00:09:55.279 --> 00:10:02.480
Sadly, 70% of couples that start couples therapy don't stay together because they come too late.
00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:14.000
And then what ends up happening eventually, no, some couples therapy does work, you know, and a large part of what makes some couples therapy work is forgiveness and acceptance.
00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:20.080
Um, but it's being you have to be very careful about what you choose to forgive and what you choose to accept.
00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:25.279
And and and your contribution to the conflict, right?
00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:25.679
Right.
00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:39.519
If you are going in the other direction, the majority, that's ending a relationship, the next step, and and that's a long process, you know, that's deciding to leave something.
00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:42.320
If you have children, it has another dimension.
00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:50.000
It ideas, dreams, it's it's a huge letting go, it's a huge it's it's a it's a death of of of sorts.
00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:56.559
Um it's almost more complicated than a death because it's a death that involves choice, right?
00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:04.000
Well, for one person, or maybe both but it's a choice, it's not something that yes, absolutely.
00:11:04.399 --> 00:11:18.720
Because one person might not want to be choosing to absolutely, but but that that lack of being the person that is not the chooser is in just as much pain because they're the victim of the action, you know?
00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:20.799
So it's kind of reciprocal like that.
00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:26.000
Okay, right in any event, um, it takes a long time to go through it.
00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:35.120
Um, you know, there's legal stuff, there's financial stuff, there's anger, there's resentment, there's shock.
00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:46.000
There's staying in the relationship with the person because you share children with them or a dog with them or a home with them, certainly a history.
00:11:46.320 --> 00:12:08.080
And then slowly over time, it kind of transitions into helping them recognize their own voice, lowering the old volume, raising the new volume, and changing the narrative and exploring at an older age in life what it's like to get to know somebody.
00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:13.120
And it's pretty miraculous to watch if you let them.
00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:16.080
Yeah, it's really interesting.
00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:25.919
I gravitate to um when you say, you know, unfortunately, you know, 70% uh doesn't work out.
00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:30.720
And it's just it's just the conditioning of our world, you know.
00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:32.960
For me, I hear it so differently.
00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:37.600
I'm like, it always works out, no matter what.
00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:43.600
100% of the time, it works out because it's supposed to be this.
00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:55.840
Now that is tough to hear because, you know, I'm someone who left a marriage of 20 years, and people would say, I'm so sorry it didn't work out.
00:12:56.000 --> 00:13:19.120
And I'm like, why are you so it's ex There's a lot of pain, and I'm not taking any of that away from me or him because we both experience a lot, but it worked out, it worked exactly out because I know that we're not meant to be together for this chapter in our life, as painful as it is for both of us for different reasons, it's not meant for us.
00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:21.360
So that is our destiny.
00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:31.120
That is what is supposed because I think the reframe into that understanding is is really critical for people.
00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:34.799
Otherwise, so many feel like I fully agree, I fully agree with you.
00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:49.360
I think I think that um one of the things that happens as a therapist or the kind of therapist that I am is that yeah, people come into therapy most of the time, at least consciously wanting it to work.
00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:53.519
So I say unfortunately, because I know I get it.
00:13:53.840 --> 00:14:00.799
I have that sense of empathy for the person or the person who's listening right now saying, Oh god, it's not gonna work out.
00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:02.879
And that's really where that comes from.
00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:13.440
I agree 100% that that if you allow it to happen, that you will end up exactly where you should be.
00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:16.000
Because you'll build that and you'll get there.
00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:17.600
I agree a hundred percent.
00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:20.320
But I also think a lot has to go on first.
00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:21.519
Yeah, exactly.
00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:22.879
So so many things.
00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:44.159
So, d what was your journey around you know, your connection to body intelligence, and have you allowed that intelligence within you, that voice, um, that intuition, that somatic knowing, have you allowed that to be a part of your life, or is that a newer concept for you?
00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:47.120
It's a newer concept for me for two reasons.
00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:50.639
A, it's a newer concept because I wasn't trained that way as a therapist.
00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:51.200
Yeah.
00:14:51.519 --> 00:15:07.360
But so much work is being done in that area now, and it is so helpful with trauma that to not acknowledge it and not to learn it and not to know it, it it's why I have that moment with you that takes 30 seconds and all of a sudden I can feel different.
00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:07.679
Yeah.
00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:20.720
The other reason, and I'm gonna I'll share, you know, something personal, and that is that um I've I've lost a hundred pounds in the past let's call it three years.
00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:22.879
And I mean, I've lost 50 pounds.
00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:30.320
My my joke is I've lost 50 pounds 50 times in my lifetime, you know, lifetime, but this time I lost a hundred pounds and I've kept it off.
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:35.519
Um primarily it's the weight loss journey started for health reasons.
00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:49.200
But one of the things that I've realized is that on the one hand, your problems still exist because your internal skeleton you don't lose.
00:15:50.240 --> 00:16:04.240
But all of that weight covered up so much emotion and covered up so much access to how do you really feel to your soul, to inside of yourself.
00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:06.159
When did you have that awareness?
00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:10.000
Not one day, it's been a process.
00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:12.399
Is that when you were in it?
00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:14.879
Were you were you like, no, right?
00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:16.320
No, not at all.
00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:41.600
It would be when somebody would see me for the first time and say, Oh, oh my god, or when I would put on a pair of pants that I never thought I could put on, or when I would dance and I would feel my body being able to move in different ways, or when I would do yoga and I would able be able to, you know, clasp my hands in ways that I couldn't because I couldn't get to that space.
00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:42.000
Right.
00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:49.519
And I realized that on some level, metaphorically, so much more was available to me.
00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:51.679
Um, can you go back?
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:52.320
Do you mind?
00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:53.759
Because you opened this up.
00:16:53.919 --> 00:17:05.039
So I'd love for the listeners, I think this is really important and such a beautiful, um, vulnerable moment and a lot of lessons that we can learn, all of us.
00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:11.759
Can you talk to us about like when that happened, the the weight when it was on, and and that relationship?
00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:14.000
Were you just so disconnected from your body?
00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:25.359
And that I was not disconnected from my body, I was connected to my body, and I and I well, I was connected to what was covering my body up.
00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:26.000
Let me put it.
00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:27.039
Well, no, right.
00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:28.640
I mean the internal.
00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:29.920
Okay, so there's two.
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:30.559
That's important.
00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:36.720
You're talking about the physical, you were connected to that weight that was that was covering up.
00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:37.519
Exactly.
00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:41.279
100% so I will interest a protection.
00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:58.079
It it full full armor, and I will also say that um the main thing that that really came along with it when I when I was so unhealthy um physically, yeah, would was shame.
00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:03.599
Because, you know, weight is the one thing that you can't hide, right?
00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:03.920
Right?
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:12.640
You can have a bunch of problems going on and people don't see it on the outside, but they see you getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.
00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:19.119
And I'm speaking primarily about health right now, not about the way one looks, right, but the way one feels.
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:32.240
And the shame was the thing that was the largest that became the smallest over time, and that is that's the work, right?
00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:35.119
That's the work, which I want to get to that work in a second.
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:41.039
So you had this connection to the body, the physical body as the protector covering you up.
00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:43.759
What was going on inside your body?
00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:45.680
In were you connected to a voice?
00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:53.920
Was there a voice within you that was like, we have to change this, or we're not happy, or like, was there any inner dialogue going on?
00:18:54.240 --> 00:19:00.160
Tons of inner dialogue, and it was primarily what's wrong with me and why can't I do this?
00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:00.640
Right.
00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:02.880
I help people so that's where the shame came.
00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:05.599
That's more, yeah, and the judgment and the criticism.
00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:15.200
You know, here I am helping people all day long for all these years with all their issues, and I can't get this taken care of.
00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:16.160
Right.
00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:17.519
Interesting.
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:23.359
That was the main sentence that played over and over and over again.
00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:26.720
And you don't have to keep that exclusive to physicality, you know.
00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:30.000
You can keep that ex think about that in terms of relationships.
00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:33.519
You know, why can't I move from this?
00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:34.480
Right, exactly.
00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:35.440
What's the glue?
00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:40.319
What why am I staying connected to this extremely destructive position?
00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:42.079
Would you what would you say about this?
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:50.640
So oftentimes with my clients and myself, because I've practiced this, um, I've definitely released this now for sure.
00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:53.519
People I find chase the why.
00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:54.799
Why am I this?
00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:56.079
Why am I da-da-da?
00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:56.480
Why?
00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:03.039
And when we chase the why, we are shaming ourselves, we are judging ourselves, we are being so critical.
00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:15.680
When I let go of chasing the why, when I got so empowered in my body to say, I do not need to explain anything, I am who I am because I am, because I am.
00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:21.039
Uh, it was the most liberating transformation, and it's really an incredible feeling.
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:28.880
And I wonder, do you think that chase of trying to answer that question deepened your shame?
00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:29.599
Yes.
00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:34.880
And I and by the way, I want to tell you that I love that expression, Chase, the why.
00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:35.759
Oh, thanks.
00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:40.480
Even though, as a therapist, so much of the work is about understanding.
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:48.559
Yeah, it's also about accepting, letting, and letting surrender, yeah.
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:49.519
Letting go of it.
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:51.039
We don't need to know why.
00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:53.200
We don't need to know why.
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:58.079
And and the why is is often about self-blame.
00:20:58.319 --> 00:20:58.640
Exactly.
00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:01.200
That's where that's where the road takes you back to.
00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:05.519
So I do believe it's very I mean, I have to be very clear here.
00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:12.960
I do believe it's very important to understand our history and under how it plays out in the day-to-day.
00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:13.759
Right.
00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:21.359
But at a certain point, right, you're chasing that and chasing that, that's just like staying connected to the past.
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:23.119
Yeah, I totally agree with you.
00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:34.559
And I do want to um make sure that I'm clear on that as well, because I do it, it's the the chase has to stop when it involves criticizing, criticizing ourselves and judging ourselves.
00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:40.319
Understanding our history is so important and can be very valuable, but it's about how we're engaging with this information.
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:42.640
So then take us to what happened.
00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:45.920
So then all of a sudden, so you've got this shame, you're carrying this stuff.
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:47.440
What was the tipping point?
00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:52.799
Like, what made you what was that transition like for you to switch over how that happened?
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:57.359
Uh yeah, very honestly, because that's I I can't do it any other way.
00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:58.880
No, honesty is what we want.
00:21:58.960 --> 00:21:59.200
Yeah.
00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:04.640
I Got a bunch of really, really, really concerning blood results back.
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:05.519
Yeah.
00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:15.920
And I got put on a medication that, you know, everybody's talking about nowadays, but I went on it kind of before it became popular for health reasons.
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:30.079
Um and one of the amazing things about these GLP ones is that it really, when you say stop chasing the Y on some level, that medication allows you to quiet the noise.
00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:32.160
It really does.
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:39.759
There is a psychological, physiological component to the fact that the food noise stops.
00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:44.880
And that doesn't always feel terrific because silence can be a little scary.
00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:45.920
It's unfamiliar.
00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:50.319
You're learning a whole new, a whole new dance, a whole new way of thinking.
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:51.680
Yeah.
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:53.039
And that's what happened.
00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:54.960
And it's a journey.
00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:56.000
I mean, it's still happening.
00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:58.799
Um I think it's a lifelong journey.
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:15.359
Um but but I can tell you that the more you chip away at the shame, and the more you chip away at the judgment, and the more you chip away at the chasing and the chasing and the chasing, the more doors open for you.
00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:16.640
Mm-hmm.
00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:18.160
Yeah, beautiful.
00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:22.480
So so the medication helped you stop with the craving necessarily, right?
00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:24.640
The like constant going after.
00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:29.680
And then how did you work on the internal connection?
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:33.359
How did you heal the relationship with yourself?
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:42.880
And I'm sure it's an ongoing, we're always ongoing, but how did that what did you do to kind of like get back to loving or liking yourself?
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:43.279
I guess.
00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:44.720
Yeah, you know what?
00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:54.880
It it's not even for me, it wasn't even getting back because I I was so covered up with it for so long, yeah, that it was almost like I forgot it existed.
00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:57.759
Like wasn't born obese, you know what I'm saying?
00:23:57.920 --> 00:23:58.240
Right, right.
00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:02.000
So I forgot that at one point there was this beautiful baby.
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:06.880
And the the baby that hadn't, you know, hurt themselves at that point.
00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:07.519
Yeah.
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:22.640
And uh you you you it's a process, it's it's it's a it's just in a deeply internal process where you allow yourself to say things things can change, things can shift.
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:25.680
And I can and I can do this now.
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:27.759
Mm-hmm.
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:30.559
When did you uh start your practice?
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:33.279
My practice, my psychology.
00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:34.640
As a therapist, yeah.
00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:37.839
Oh, uh 37 years ago.
00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:44.079
So where were you along this journey of you know letting go of the weight, really on your road to recovery and connection?
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:45.119
No, no, no, no.
00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:49.359
I I prop as I said, I've lost 50 pounds 50 times.
00:24:49.680 --> 00:25:11.839
So I I was I was always up and down and up and down, up and down and up and down as I was working and as I was working and as I was Yeah, there was a lot of by the way, there was a lot of shame in being a therapist that clearly was being self-destructive, just like there was a lot of shame in being a couples therapist who got divorced.
00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:12.880
Right, exactly.
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:17.599
You know, you you it's hard to not, you know, you have to I'm curious about that.
00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:22.400
How did you did you were you were you transparent with your clients?
00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:33.519
Like, hey, listen, I'm here counseling you as as your therapist, as and I've gotten divorced, and I want you to know, or I'm battling this weight thing, or like, were you transparent about your own?
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:42.319
It was much more much more transparent about my divorce than I was about my weight because I didn't really have to be transparent about my weight.
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:44.480
That was an obvious right, right?
00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:46.160
Um, my divorce.
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:51.599
Well, it's it's actually very interesting, and I really want to say this to everybody.
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.559
The most important thing about a therapeutic relationship is chemistry.
00:25:57.200 --> 00:26:00.079
I'm not for everybody, I am transparent.
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:19.599
I I'm not transparent in that I don't go to my patients for them to help me, but I am transparent in in ways that some people are not about sharing aspects of my life because my feeling is how can you really feel safe putting yourself in my hands when I'm not putting myself in yours in some way?
00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:20.160
Right.
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:20.720
Mm-hmm.
00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:21.599
I love that.
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:24.720
Um, you know, that's just that's just I think that's so beautiful.
00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:32.240
Listen, that's a I think that's a a very strong way to lead with vulnerability, sharing your story, being open.
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:42.400
It because if we want to help people and heal people and empower people, they need to be able to see themselves inside of you or other people's stories.
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:44.640
So how are they gonna do that unless we're being honest?
00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:56.880
So actually, what would happen, what actually happened a few times, and then it kind of just evolved, is I used to, I still do occasionally um go to soul cycle classes.
00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:03.599
And you know, I knew I knew the people that originally owned it, and I was in the first soul cycle class ever.
00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:15.759
And so when I was going through my divorce, the teachers, wonderful, empathic, lovely people, would say, You can do it, Lisa Anne, you know, you can do it, you can get to the other side.
00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:23.440
And you know, I'd come in weeping and thinking I couldn't and not recognizing that I had patience in the class.
00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:24.480
Wow.
00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:30.160
So they would come to the session and they would say, Well, why are they saying you can do it?
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:31.759
What is it that you're doing?
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:37.680
Oh and that's when I recognized I I have to I have to open up about this.
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:41.119
Um and I and I have to forgive myself for it, you know?
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:43.279
That's how I can open up about it.
00:27:43.519 --> 00:27:44.559
How'd you do that?
00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:48.799
How did I do that?
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:51.279
I wish I had a really quick, easy answer.
00:27:51.519 --> 00:28:00.480
Um, by by you want to know how I did it by practice by repetition, by doing it over and over and over and over again.
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:01.680
Like doing what?
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:02.720
What would you do?
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:04.319
Share my story.
00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:16.960
Say when somebody I get a lot of referrals from divorce attorneys, right patients, and and they would come in and they would say, You don't know what it's like, you don't know what it's like, and I would say, Stop.
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:20.319
I I need to let you know that I actually I do know what it's like.
00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:23.200
I don't know what your situation is like, right, exactly.
00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:26.720
But I had a situation, I have a situation, right?
00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:34.960
And on some level, I kind of look at it in this, I don't mean to sound like Pollyanna, but it was like I made lemonade out of lemons.
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:52.720
I said, Right, let me try to take one of the most painful things that I've ever gone through and and and turn it into something that can benefit me and others and start new journeys.
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:54.319
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:56.880
How I was I I love all of that.
00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:00.960
And you said, you know, it was a long journey to forgiveness.
00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:04.400
So I was curious about how you forgave yourself.
00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:07.200
Was it in the how did you forgive yourself?
00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:09.759
How did you release and let go?
00:29:09.839 --> 00:29:13.599
And so was it was it in the sharing of your story?
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:15.599
Was it being transparent about your story?
00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:18.319
I don't think it's ever completely done.
00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:30.640
I think that um, but it but but I think for some people it is for me, it's it's a process, it's an awareness, um it's it's front of mind.
00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:39.680
But the the main way that I began to forgive myself is to recognize that nobody's perfect, right?
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:46.559
And that we have this idea about this blueprint about the way our life is supposed to look.
00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:47.119
Yeah.
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:49.920
And that's not that doesn't have to be the case.
00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:56.319
We can change the blueprints, even if we don't want to change the blueprint, and we're hands in a new blueprint, right?
00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:58.319
You know, we can change it.
00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:02.240
There's pain whether you're the lever or whether you're the levy, yeah, yeah.
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:17.839
There's pain, there's pain either way, there's certainly pain either way, and it it had to do with recognizing that I didn't have to be a certain way in order to be good with myself, right?
00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:28.000
Do you find that what you've experienced in your life with both of these stories that you've shared, and I know there's others, um, other stories within you.
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:32.160
Do you think it's informed how you lead your life now?
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:33.920
100%.
00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:36.880
Can you give me an example?
00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:45.279
I can give you an example in terms of food and in terms of uh my relationship that I'm in now.
00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:48.960
Um and in my relationship with other people as well.
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:49.359
Yeah.
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:59.440
And that is that you feel sort of those, those I call them my antique feelings, you know, the old feelings, the used feelings.
00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:00.319
I love that.
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:04.240
And and and you say, gosh, you know, I can't believe you're still there.
00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:06.160
Like you were supposed to not be there anymore.
00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:09.839
Didn't I got we got we we that that you know that went away.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:15.440
And and then you say, wait, wait, wait, okay, there's room for you, but there's like a little storage closet for you.
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:18.960
You no longer get to take up the majority of the storage.
00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:29.200
You get to take up a little space and I'm gonna I'm gonna put you away and I'm gonna respect you, but I'm not going to let you dictate what happens to me next in my life.
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:36.160
And I'm going to recognize that everybody's different, and I'm going to recognize that I can survive.
00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:37.039
Yeah.
00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:43.119
Which is why taking a risk and a chance and starting over is so important.
00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:44.640
Yeah, I love that.
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:51.200
You've like clearly developed such resiliency because of the experiences that you've had.
00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:52.000
Yeah.
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:53.839
Which is so, so beautiful.
00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:55.759
I I love all of this.
00:31:55.920 --> 00:32:08.319
I mean, I am so grateful for your vulnerability truly in sharing both of those stories because, again, that's how we help people see themselves and give them hope.
00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:12.160
Um, and and I so I really, really appreciate that.
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:30.160
And so my last kind of question is around just your work and and where I mean, where, yes, where people can find you, but more than that, what's your philosophy around your approach to therapy and how you work with your clients?
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:33.680
Like, what would you say are your core principles?
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:40.160
And were they developed as a result of your life story and all that you've learned?
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:47.759
Absolutely developed from my life story, from my relationships, from my connections to other people.
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:48.559
Yeah.
00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:54.319
Now, mostly my connection to myself, the newest part of my journey.
00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:54.960
Beautiful.
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:56.720
Kind of like where you come in.
00:32:56.880 --> 00:32:58.000
Yeah, for me.
00:32:58.160 --> 00:32:58.559
Seriously.
00:32:58.720 --> 00:32:59.039
Yeah.
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:14.720
But I was going to say, I had one thing to add, and I realized that the one thing I had to add actually answers your question about my principles, and that is that much of the time when somebody leaves a first or second session, I always compare a session to a first date.
00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:18.160
Like you kind of know if you want to kiss somebody after a first date.
00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:21.519
The chemistry, what you know, sometimes two dates, right?
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:22.000
Yeah.
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:30.880
And I will say to the person when they're leaving my office, I can't make you any big grandiose promises right now.
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:43.519
I I'm not going to make any major statements about your life because I don't know much about you, but I can guarantee you, you do not and will not always have to feel this way.
00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:45.200
You will feel better.
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:48.799
If you do the work, you can feel better.
00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:58.480
And that's my core principle of work is that you don't have to stay stuck in the pain.
00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:02.960
And at the same time, you don't have to run away from it.
00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:06.559
And you can tolerate learning to live with discomfort.
00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:11.760
Because much of the time when we try to get rid of discomfort, we do so in self-destructive ways.
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:12.559
Yeah.
00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:13.119
Yeah.
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:16.239
And it continues to show up because we're not listening.
00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:16.719
Exactly.
00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:21.280
To that, to that wisdom, to listening to what it has to say.
00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:30.000
You know, I know we talked about this briefly, but definitely the IFS parts work have influenced my work.
00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:39.599
Um, I believe very deeply that we have different parts that are associated to different aspects of our life, to different memories and experiences.
00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:45.920
And when we can really look at them, try to look at them objectively with compassion, at least.
00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:52.800
I I believe deeply in I Sparks work, and compassion is a huge piece.
00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:59.119
Like I will often say to a patient, let's talk to the little girl or little boy version of you.
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:00.079
Right, exactly.
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:00.559
Of course.
00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:07.920
They really are, they're in there and they deserve to be heard in a way that I don't think they ever were heard before.
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:09.199
Yeah, exactly.
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:30.480
And so many people that are not, you know, um not connected or familiar with IFS work, it's internal family parts work and it's internal family systems, and it's really identifying these different parts of us and honoring them and and looking at that little girl, looking at that little boy and really giving them a voice.
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:32.159
And so it's really beautiful.
00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:36.719
And I understand that people that are not connected to this work are like, what the hell are you talking about?
00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:38.320
Parts work, voice, da-da-da.
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:39.280
But it's real.
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:43.519
So if you are listening and there's any part of you that's like, what is that?
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:46.159
Lean in, DM, email me.
00:35:46.239 --> 00:35:48.320
I have a ton of resources to share.
00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:59.599
Um, because it's really, really important that we pick those parts, like separate them, isolate them so we remember that we're not all one thing, like you said earlier, you know, many things.
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:15.519
And we don't, we if we get to know those inner pieces of ourselves, yeah, we have much more control over what leads us, right, what informs us, and what we don't want to repeat anymore.
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:16.079
Right.
00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:19.599
That you know, that takes that takes really hard work.
00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:22.159
It's like going to the emotional gym, you know?
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:22.800
Yeah.
00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:26.559
That you know your heart and soul is a muscle, as is your mind.
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:28.719
And that's what it's like.
00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:29.840
Yeah, exactly.
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:31.039
And so worth it.
00:36:31.360 --> 00:36:36.000
Tell us where people can find you, how people can connect with you, please.
00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:40.960
When you can find me, um, my my phone number.
00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:42.800
Uh I'm not gonna give my office number.
00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:44.480
I wouldn't give your phone number here, yeah.
00:36:44.719 --> 00:36:46.239
You wouldn't give my cell number here?
00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:46.800
No.
00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:47.440
Okay.
00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:51.039
Um, you can find me under Lisa Angodnik.
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:55.199
It is um on the internet.
00:36:55.360 --> 00:37:08.800
You can Google me and you'll find me in Psychology Today, and you can leave me an email, or my phone number is on Psychology Today, and and you can reach out that way, and I will get back to you.
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:16.079
I'm I'm a fast responder, so I will get back to you within 24 hours and take it from there.
00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:17.119
I love it.
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:17.920
Oh my gosh.
00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:20.159
Thank you so much for being here with me today.
00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:21.440
I really appreciate you.
00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:25.199
I appreciate your stories and all the wisdom that you shared with us.
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:33.280
And thank you to everybody listening to the Wisdom from Within podcast, where human stories awaken leadership from within.
00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:35.679
I am so grateful for this platform.
00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:39.519
I'm so grateful for this movement, and I can't wait to see you all next week.
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:40.719
Okay, take care.
00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:42.159
Thank you so much.
00:37:42.639 --> 00:37:46.639
If something in this conversation spoke to you, don't keep it to yourself.
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:49.679
Send it to someone who might need that message too.
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:54.559
You can also send me a comment because I would love to know what it is that landed for you.
00:37:54.800 --> 00:38:05.519
But most importantly, take a moment to pause and listen to what it is that resonated because that's where your real guidance system lives.
00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:09.440
The one you can trust, the one you can rely on.
00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:11.039
See you next week.
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.279
I'm so excited to share Lisanne Godnik with you.
00:00:03.520 --> 00:00:21.760
She is a psychologist and therapist, and she focuses on individuals and couples and helping them restore their confidence and move through their relationships gracefully, not only in relationship, but individuals in relationship with themselves, how to heal and how to move through their life with ease.
00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:28.320
And something that I really love about this podcast episode is that Lisanne speaks from her heart.
00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:44.719
She shares her story around gaining weight and losing weight and that being a cycle and what her relationship was like to her body, to that internal voice and that constant back and forth and push and pull and what that journey was like.
00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:47.600
I think that's going to awaken a lot for so many of you.
00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:58.479
She also talks about her divorce and how that impacted her life and how it impacts her own leadership and how she mentors and leads couples into their own form of healing.
00:00:58.719 --> 00:01:09.840
So I'm really looking forward to you hearing this podcast and be sure to listen to the end, share a review, share it with the people that you love and the people that you might think would benefit from this message.
00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:10.959
I appreciate you.
00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:12.239
Let's get started.
00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:25.359
I would love for you to share what it means, what body intelligence means, and what how you've been in relationship with that and how it's really led you to where you are right now.
00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:30.319
And please begin um with your experience with this.
00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:33.519
So um, you know, body experience.
00:01:33.599 --> 00:01:37.280
I've been I've been a psychotherapist in Manhattan for 40 years.
00:01:37.359 --> 00:01:49.040
And for me, the part of my body, the two parts of my body that actually have always been the key has been my brain and my heart, and three ears and my ears.
00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:49.519
Okay.
00:01:49.840 --> 00:02:00.640
But when I met with you um and and spoke with you in this time too, and you had me basically put my hand on my heart and hit my hand on my stomach and close my eyes.
00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:01.120
Right.
00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:12.479
What what became really clear to me, and I was surprised uh actually that this did happen, is that the noise quieted.
00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:25.039
And um that I began to sort of sit with things and and feel things the way they were right here and right now.
00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:27.520
And if it was uncomfortable, it was uncomfortable.
00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:35.439
If it was comfortable, it was comfortable, but that I didn't have to use my thoughts to move away from what I was feeling physically.
00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:37.759
Wow, that happened so quickly.
00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:46.080
I mean, before we got on this, you know, and before we hit record, we did a little body set moment and you got there in that short amount of time.
00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:47.039
I I did.
00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:47.520
I did.
00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:48.319
That's incredible.
00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:48.719
How?
00:02:48.879 --> 00:02:50.960
What do you think was going on for you?
00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:59.199
And for those, I'm just gonna say for those that are listening, the body set position is hand on your heart, hand on your stomach, you close your eyes.
00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:07.840
It's really a quieting of the mind of the body to really set, to set yourself up to hear the wisdom from within.
00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:09.280
So that's what we're talking about.
00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:10.159
Okay, so go ahead.
00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:14.879
But you know, along those lines, I I practice yoga and I practice meditation.
00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:15.599
Right.
00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:24.240
And I don't usually have the same quiet experience that I did this time with you and the first time I spoke with you.
00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:24.479
Right.
00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:27.120
And I think that speaks to the relationship.
00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:28.159
Okay.
00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:38.879
And as a therapist, pretty much everything I do speaks to the relationship, whether it be one's relationship to oneself or one's relationship to the other.
00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:39.360
Right.
00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:43.599
That that I think it has to do with connection and relating.
00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:45.599
Do you think it has to do with trust?
00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:51.520
I think trust is an enormous uh component of connection.
00:03:51.680 --> 00:04:06.960
And I think trust is much harder for certain people than other people's based based on a host of reasons, in large part their history and what they've been through and the relationships and the connections that they've had.
00:04:07.599 --> 00:04:16.639
That's one of the things I focus primarily on is trying to find a way to not have your past.
00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:23.199
Your past will inform your current state, but it doesn't have to dictate your current state.
00:04:23.519 --> 00:04:23.839
Right.
00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:24.399
Right.
00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:27.040
Well, that's part of what this work is all about.
00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:38.000
That body intelligence partly comes from our experiences growing up and hearing the wisdom and the lessons we're meant to learn.
00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:47.120
And the body intelligence, for me, I see it as an entity that was within us when we were in the womb.
00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:52.720
You know, it's there, it's spiritual, it's source, it's God, it's whatever people want to call it.
00:04:52.959 --> 00:04:58.480
So it's this combination of intelligence that collects through time.
00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:00.240
So yeah, I agree with you.
00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:02.240
We don't, we're not our past.
00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:04.959
It can inform us of who we are.
00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:10.480
So, how do we listen to it with trust uh without feeling like we're that?
00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:17.920
Because if we're dealing with trauma, we don't want to attach to our trauma and say, Oh, that's who I am, instead, find the nuggets of intelligence within the experience.
00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:19.279
So, how do you how do you do that?
00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:22.160
And we don't want to pretend there wasn't trauma.
00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:25.839
What we want to do is find a balance somewhere in the middle, yeah.
00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:33.839
Um, because I believe that when we when we try to move away from things constantly, we just push them down, push them down, and push them down, right?
00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:42.480
And they come up in a host of different ways rather than saying this happened all of it, right?
00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:45.600
And it doesn't have to be happening now, right?
00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:50.000
And I didn't cause it to happen.
00:05:50.319 --> 00:05:50.720
Right.
00:05:51.199 --> 00:06:11.600
And when you when you incorporate that concept into things, I didn't cause the other person's issues and trauma that was imposed upon you, it's extremely liberating because you get to say, wow, I don't I don't have to be on that leash forever.
00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:13.279
Right, exactly.
00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:22.079
How do you help people um have a relationship with their past without reliving their past?
00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:34.639
One of the things that I do is I have I have an intense experience with my patient about their past.
00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:38.560
Doesn't mean that we spend every session talking about a mother and a father.
00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:43.199
Absolutely not, because I I believe that the most important thing is the here and now.
00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:43.920
Right.
00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:52.319
But we have to understand where we came from in order to understand where we're going and in order in order to go to a new place.
00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:52.879
Right.
00:06:53.120 --> 00:06:54.959
We want to change the address.
00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:56.879
We don't want to go back home all the time.
00:06:57.120 --> 00:07:00.399
Even if there were lovely things about home, we want to build a new home.
00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:22.879
So we do so by understanding the feelings, by talking about the pain, by talking about the love, by talking about the fear, by recognizing that one of the ways we stay connected to our past, because we don't want to let it go, because it was such a huge part of us, is by repeating the same behavior in our current relationships.
00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:26.079
It keeps us connected to the trauma and the past.
00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:29.920
And it's like it's like being in quicksand, you're not moving at all.
00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:44.079
So it has to also do with a grieving and a giving up and a mourning and saying, There were things I loved about you, but goodbye because it's too painful to stay there.
00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:45.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:59.279
So in order to get out of the pattern, we have to recognize the pattern and the root of it to create a new pathway home, which I really love how you said, you know, changing the address.
00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:08.240
For me, when I heard you say that, I'm thinking about to me, the new address, it's not a new address, it's an old address, it's the address of you, of your soul.
00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:08.959
It's customer.
00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:10.399
The original address.
00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:10.720
Right.
00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:11.199
Right.
00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:15.759
The original print before anybody came in and did any renovation.
00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:19.040
Started messing it up and started taking you out.
00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:32.559
You know, there's a lot around, you know, owning that too, the being taken out, like that, you know, not blaming someone for it, but instead, this was meant for me for whatever reason to learn whatever it is I'm meant to learn.
00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:33.600
Do you agree with that?
00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:35.279
I a hundred percent.
00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:42.480
And I I believe that just like staying attached to the trauma keeps us connected to our past, right?
00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.480
Blaming is a huge way of staying connected.
00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:46.960
Right.
00:08:47.279 --> 00:08:49.600
You're not giving up the fight, right?
00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:57.759
So there's no movement forward as long as you're constantly taking steps backwards, and blaming is about backwards movement.
00:08:58.000 --> 00:08:58.960
Yeah, yeah.
00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:17.120
I love this whole concept of really identifying the why, like why we stay in those same patterns, you know, why we relive and how, but the and so now I'm like, okay, so how do we let go and be in relationship in a different way, in an empowered way?
00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:30.320
So do you take your clients through any kind of um exploration or discovery around who they are so they can return to this beautiful person that they that they are?
00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:37.039
Well, first of all, it's not only a return, but it's a rediscovery because most don't most of us don't even know it was there.
00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:37.919
Right, right.
00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:38.720
You know?
00:09:39.039 --> 00:09:55.039
Um and a lot of the work that I work uh often with individuals, but I also work a lot with couples, and I've kind of created this program called Divorce Recovery, where it kind of starts in couples therapy.
00:09:55.279 --> 00:10:02.480
Sadly, 70% of couples that start couples therapy don't stay together because they come too late.
00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:14.000
And then what ends up happening eventually, no, some couples therapy does work, you know, and a large part of what makes some couples therapy work is forgiveness and acceptance.
00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:20.080
Um, but it's being you have to be very careful about what you choose to forgive and what you choose to accept.
00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:25.279
And and and your contribution to the conflict, right?
00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:25.679
Right.
00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:39.519
If you are going in the other direction, the majority, that's ending a relationship, the next step, and and that's a long process, you know, that's deciding to leave something.
00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:42.320
If you have children, it has another dimension.
00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:50.000
It ideas, dreams, it's it's a huge letting go, it's a huge it's it's a it's a death of of of sorts.
00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:56.559
Um it's almost more complicated than a death because it's a death that involves choice, right?
00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:04.000
Well, for one person, or maybe both but it's a choice, it's not something that yes, absolutely.
00:11:04.399 --> 00:11:18.720
Because one person might not want to be choosing to absolutely, but but that that lack of being the person that is not the chooser is in just as much pain because they're the victim of the action, you know?
00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:20.799
So it's kind of reciprocal like that.
00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:26.000
Okay, right in any event, um, it takes a long time to go through it.
00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:35.120
Um, you know, there's legal stuff, there's financial stuff, there's anger, there's resentment, there's shock.
00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:46.000
There's staying in the relationship with the person because you share children with them or a dog with them or a home with them, certainly a history.
00:11:46.320 --> 00:12:08.080
And then slowly over time, it kind of transitions into helping them recognize their own voice, lowering the old volume, raising the new volume, and changing the narrative and exploring at an older age in life what it's like to get to know somebody.
00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:13.120
And it's pretty miraculous to watch if you let them.
00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:16.080
Yeah, it's really interesting.
00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:25.919
I gravitate to um when you say, you know, unfortunately, you know, 70% uh doesn't work out.
00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:30.720
And it's just it's just the conditioning of our world, you know.
00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:32.960
For me, I hear it so differently.
00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:37.600
I'm like, it always works out, no matter what.
00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:43.600
100% of the time, it works out because it's supposed to be this.
00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:55.840
Now that is tough to hear because, you know, I'm someone who left a marriage of 20 years, and people would say, I'm so sorry it didn't work out.
00:12:56.000 --> 00:13:19.120
And I'm like, why are you so it's ex There's a lot of pain, and I'm not taking any of that away from me or him because we both experience a lot, but it worked out, it worked exactly out because I know that we're not meant to be together for this chapter in our life, as painful as it is for both of us for different reasons, it's not meant for us.
00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:21.360
So that is our destiny.
00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:31.120
That is what is supposed because I think the reframe into that understanding is is really critical for people.
00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:34.799
Otherwise, so many feel like I fully agree, I fully agree with you.
00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:49.360
I think I think that um one of the things that happens as a therapist or the kind of therapist that I am is that yeah, people come into therapy most of the time, at least consciously wanting it to work.
00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:53.519
So I say unfortunately, because I know I get it.
00:13:53.840 --> 00:14:00.799
I have that sense of empathy for the person or the person who's listening right now saying, Oh god, it's not gonna work out.
00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:02.879
And that's really where that comes from.
00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:13.440
I agree 100% that that if you allow it to happen, that you will end up exactly where you should be.
00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:16.000
Because you'll build that and you'll get there.
00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:17.600
I agree a hundred percent.
00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:20.320
But I also think a lot has to go on first.
00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:21.519
Yeah, exactly.
00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:22.879
So so many things.
00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:44.159
So, d what was your journey around you know, your connection to body intelligence, and have you allowed that intelligence within you, that voice, um, that intuition, that somatic knowing, have you allowed that to be a part of your life, or is that a newer concept for you?
00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:47.120
It's a newer concept for me for two reasons.
00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:50.639
A, it's a newer concept because I wasn't trained that way as a therapist.
00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:51.200
Yeah.
00:14:51.519 --> 00:15:07.360
But so much work is being done in that area now, and it is so helpful with trauma that to not acknowledge it and not to learn it and not to know it, it it's why I have that moment with you that takes 30 seconds and all of a sudden I can feel different.
00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:07.679
Yeah.
00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:20.720
The other reason, and I'm gonna I'll share, you know, something personal, and that is that um I've I've lost a hundred pounds in the past let's call it three years.
00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:22.879
And I mean, I've lost 50 pounds.
00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:30.320
My my joke is I've lost 50 pounds 50 times in my lifetime, you know, lifetime, but this time I lost a hundred pounds and I've kept it off.
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:35.519
Um primarily it's the weight loss journey started for health reasons.
00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:49.200
But one of the things that I've realized is that on the one hand, your problems still exist because your internal skeleton you don't lose.
00:15:50.240 --> 00:16:04.240
But all of that weight covered up so much emotion and covered up so much access to how do you really feel to your soul, to inside of yourself.
00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:06.159
When did you have that awareness?
00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:10.000
Not one day, it's been a process.
00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:12.399
Is that when you were in it?
00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:14.879
Were you were you like, no, right?
00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:16.320
No, not at all.
00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:41.600
It would be when somebody would see me for the first time and say, Oh, oh my god, or when I would put on a pair of pants that I never thought I could put on, or when I would dance and I would feel my body being able to move in different ways, or when I would do yoga and I would able be able to, you know, clasp my hands in ways that I couldn't because I couldn't get to that space.
00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:42.000
Right.
00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:49.519
And I realized that on some level, metaphorically, so much more was available to me.
00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:51.679
Um, can you go back?
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:52.320
Do you mind?
00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:53.759
Because you opened this up.
00:16:53.919 --> 00:17:05.039
So I'd love for the listeners, I think this is really important and such a beautiful, um, vulnerable moment and a lot of lessons that we can learn, all of us.
00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:11.759
Can you talk to us about like when that happened, the the weight when it was on, and and that relationship?
00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:14.000
Were you just so disconnected from your body?
00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:25.359
And that I was not disconnected from my body, I was connected to my body, and I and I well, I was connected to what was covering my body up.
00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:26.000
Let me put it.
00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:27.039
Well, no, right.
00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:28.640
I mean the internal.
00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:29.920
Okay, so there's two.
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:30.559
That's important.
00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:36.720
You're talking about the physical, you were connected to that weight that was that was covering up.
00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:37.519
Exactly.
00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:41.279
100% so I will interest a protection.
00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:58.079
It it full full armor, and I will also say that um the main thing that that really came along with it when I when I was so unhealthy um physically, yeah, would was shame.
00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:03.599
Because, you know, weight is the one thing that you can't hide, right?
00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:03.920
Right?
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:12.640
You can have a bunch of problems going on and people don't see it on the outside, but they see you getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.
00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:19.119
And I'm speaking primarily about health right now, not about the way one looks, right, but the way one feels.
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:32.240
And the shame was the thing that was the largest that became the smallest over time, and that is that's the work, right?
00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:35.119
That's the work, which I want to get to that work in a second.
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:41.039
So you had this connection to the body, the physical body as the protector covering you up.
00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:43.759
What was going on inside your body?
00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:45.680
In were you connected to a voice?
00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:53.920
Was there a voice within you that was like, we have to change this, or we're not happy, or like, was there any inner dialogue going on?
00:18:54.240 --> 00:19:00.160
Tons of inner dialogue, and it was primarily what's wrong with me and why can't I do this?
00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:00.640
Right.
00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:02.880
I help people so that's where the shame came.
00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:05.599
That's more, yeah, and the judgment and the criticism.
00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:15.200
You know, here I am helping people all day long for all these years with all their issues, and I can't get this taken care of.
00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:16.160
Right.
00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:17.519
Interesting.
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:23.359
That was the main sentence that played over and over and over again.
00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:26.720
And you don't have to keep that exclusive to physicality, you know.
00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:30.000
You can keep that ex think about that in terms of relationships.
00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:33.519
You know, why can't I move from this?
00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:34.480
Right, exactly.
00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:35.440
What's the glue?
00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:40.319
What why am I staying connected to this extremely destructive position?
00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:42.079
Would you what would you say about this?
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:50.640
So oftentimes with my clients and myself, because I've practiced this, um, I've definitely released this now for sure.
00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:53.519
People I find chase the why.
00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:54.799
Why am I this?
00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:56.079
Why am I da-da-da?
00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:56.480
Why?
00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:03.039
And when we chase the why, we are shaming ourselves, we are judging ourselves, we are being so critical.
00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:15.680
When I let go of chasing the why, when I got so empowered in my body to say, I do not need to explain anything, I am who I am because I am, because I am.
00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:21.039
Uh, it was the most liberating transformation, and it's really an incredible feeling.
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:28.880
And I wonder, do you think that chase of trying to answer that question deepened your shame?
00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:29.599
Yes.
00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:34.880
And I and by the way, I want to tell you that I love that expression, Chase, the why.
00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:35.759
Oh, thanks.
00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:40.480
Even though, as a therapist, so much of the work is about understanding.
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:48.559
Yeah, it's also about accepting, letting, and letting surrender, yeah.
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:49.519
Letting go of it.
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:51.039
We don't need to know why.
00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:53.200
We don't need to know why.
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:58.079
And and the why is is often about self-blame.
00:20:58.319 --> 00:20:58.640
Exactly.
00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:01.200
That's where that's where the road takes you back to.
00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:05.519
So I do believe it's very I mean, I have to be very clear here.
00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:12.960
I do believe it's very important to understand our history and under how it plays out in the day-to-day.
00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:13.759
Right.
00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:21.359
But at a certain point, right, you're chasing that and chasing that, that's just like staying connected to the past.
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:23.119
Yeah, I totally agree with you.
00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:34.559
And I do want to um make sure that I'm clear on that as well, because I do it, it's the the chase has to stop when it involves criticizing, criticizing ourselves and judging ourselves.
00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:40.319
Understanding our history is so important and can be very valuable, but it's about how we're engaging with this information.
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:42.640
So then take us to what happened.
00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:45.920
So then all of a sudden, so you've got this shame, you're carrying this stuff.
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:47.440
What was the tipping point?
00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:52.799
Like, what made you what was that transition like for you to switch over how that happened?
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:57.359
Uh yeah, very honestly, because that's I I can't do it any other way.
00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:58.880
No, honesty is what we want.
00:21:58.960 --> 00:21:59.200
Yeah.
00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:04.640
I Got a bunch of really, really, really concerning blood results back.
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:05.519
Yeah.
00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:15.920
And I got put on a medication that, you know, everybody's talking about nowadays, but I went on it kind of before it became popular for health reasons.
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:30.079
Um and one of the amazing things about these GLP ones is that it really, when you say stop chasing the Y on some level, that medication allows you to quiet the noise.
00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:32.160
It really does.
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:39.759
There is a psychological, physiological component to the fact that the food noise stops.
00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:44.880
And that doesn't always feel terrific because silence can be a little scary.
00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:45.920
It's unfamiliar.
00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:50.319
You're learning a whole new, a whole new dance, a whole new way of thinking.
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:51.680
Yeah.
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:53.039
And that's what happened.
00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:54.960
And it's a journey.
00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:56.000
I mean, it's still happening.
00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:58.799
Um I think it's a lifelong journey.
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:15.359
Um but but I can tell you that the more you chip away at the shame, and the more you chip away at the judgment, and the more you chip away at the chasing and the chasing and the chasing, the more doors open for you.
00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:16.640
Mm-hmm.
00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:18.160
Yeah, beautiful.
00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:22.480
So so the medication helped you stop with the craving necessarily, right?
00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:24.640
The like constant going after.
00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:29.680
And then how did you work on the internal connection?
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:33.359
How did you heal the relationship with yourself?
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:42.880
And I'm sure it's an ongoing, we're always ongoing, but how did that what did you do to kind of like get back to loving or liking yourself?
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:43.279
I guess.
00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:44.720
Yeah, you know what?
00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:54.880
It it's not even for me, it wasn't even getting back because I I was so covered up with it for so long, yeah, that it was almost like I forgot it existed.
00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:57.759
Like wasn't born obese, you know what I'm saying?
00:23:57.920 --> 00:23:58.240
Right, right.
00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:02.000
So I forgot that at one point there was this beautiful baby.
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:06.880
And the the baby that hadn't, you know, hurt themselves at that point.
00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:07.519
Yeah.
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:22.640
And uh you you you it's a process, it's it's it's a it's just in a deeply internal process where you allow yourself to say things things can change, things can shift.
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:25.680
And I can and I can do this now.
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:27.759
Mm-hmm.
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:30.559
When did you uh start your practice?
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:33.279
My practice, my psychology.
00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:34.640
As a therapist, yeah.
00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:37.839
Oh, uh 37 years ago.
00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:44.079
So where were you along this journey of you know letting go of the weight, really on your road to recovery and connection?
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:45.119
No, no, no, no.
00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:49.359
I I prop as I said, I've lost 50 pounds 50 times.
00:24:49.680 --> 00:25:11.839
So I I was I was always up and down and up and down, up and down and up and down as I was working and as I was working and as I was Yeah, there was a lot of by the way, there was a lot of shame in being a therapist that clearly was being self-destructive, just like there was a lot of shame in being a couples therapist who got divorced.
00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:12.880
Right, exactly.
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:17.599
You know, you you it's hard to not, you know, you have to I'm curious about that.
00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:22.400
How did you did you were you were you transparent with your clients?
00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:33.519
Like, hey, listen, I'm here counseling you as as your therapist, as and I've gotten divorced, and I want you to know, or I'm battling this weight thing, or like, were you transparent about your own?
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:42.319
It was much more much more transparent about my divorce than I was about my weight because I didn't really have to be transparent about my weight.
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:44.480
That was an obvious right, right?
00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:46.160
Um, my divorce.
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:51.599
Well, it's it's actually very interesting, and I really want to say this to everybody.
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.559
The most important thing about a therapeutic relationship is chemistry.
00:25:57.200 --> 00:26:00.079
I'm not for everybody, I am transparent.
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:19.599
I I'm not transparent in that I don't go to my patients for them to help me, but I am transparent in in ways that some people are not about sharing aspects of my life because my feeling is how can you really feel safe putting yourself in my hands when I'm not putting myself in yours in some way?
00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:20.160
Right.
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:20.720
Mm-hmm.
00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:21.599
I love that.
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:24.720
Um, you know, that's just that's just I think that's so beautiful.
00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:32.240
Listen, that's a I think that's a a very strong way to lead with vulnerability, sharing your story, being open.
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:42.400
It because if we want to help people and heal people and empower people, they need to be able to see themselves inside of you or other people's stories.
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:44.640
So how are they gonna do that unless we're being honest?
00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:56.880
So actually, what would happen, what actually happened a few times, and then it kind of just evolved, is I used to, I still do occasionally um go to soul cycle classes.
00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:03.599
And you know, I knew I knew the people that originally owned it, and I was in the first soul cycle class ever.
00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:15.759
And so when I was going through my divorce, the teachers, wonderful, empathic, lovely people, would say, You can do it, Lisa Anne, you know, you can do it, you can get to the other side.
00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:23.440
And you know, I'd come in weeping and thinking I couldn't and not recognizing that I had patience in the class.
00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:24.480
Wow.
00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:30.160
So they would come to the session and they would say, Well, why are they saying you can do it?
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:31.759
What is it that you're doing?
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:37.680
Oh and that's when I recognized I I have to I have to open up about this.
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:41.119
Um and I and I have to forgive myself for it, you know?
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:43.279
That's how I can open up about it.
00:27:43.519 --> 00:27:44.559
How'd you do that?
00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:48.799
How did I do that?
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:51.279
I wish I had a really quick, easy answer.
00:27:51.519 --> 00:28:00.480
Um, by by you want to know how I did it by practice by repetition, by doing it over and over and over and over again.
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:01.680
Like doing what?
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:02.720
What would you do?
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:04.319
Share my story.
00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:16.960
Say when somebody I get a lot of referrals from divorce attorneys, right patients, and and they would come in and they would say, You don't know what it's like, you don't know what it's like, and I would say, Stop.
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:20.319
I I need to let you know that I actually I do know what it's like.
00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:23.200
I don't know what your situation is like, right, exactly.
00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:26.720
But I had a situation, I have a situation, right?
00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:34.960
And on some level, I kind of look at it in this, I don't mean to sound like Pollyanna, but it was like I made lemonade out of lemons.
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:52.720
I said, Right, let me try to take one of the most painful things that I've ever gone through and and and turn it into something that can benefit me and others and start new journeys.
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:54.319
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:56.880
How I was I I love all of that.
00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:00.960
And you said, you know, it was a long journey to forgiveness.
00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:04.400
So I was curious about how you forgave yourself.
00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:07.200
Was it in the how did you forgive yourself?
00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:09.759
How did you release and let go?
00:29:09.839 --> 00:29:13.599
And so was it was it in the sharing of your story?
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:15.599
Was it being transparent about your story?
00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:18.319
I don't think it's ever completely done.
00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:30.640
I think that um, but it but but I think for some people it is for me, it's it's a process, it's an awareness, um it's it's front of mind.
00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:39.680
But the the main way that I began to forgive myself is to recognize that nobody's perfect, right?
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:46.559
And that we have this idea about this blueprint about the way our life is supposed to look.
00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:47.119
Yeah.
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:49.920
And that's not that doesn't have to be the case.
00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:56.319
We can change the blueprints, even if we don't want to change the blueprint, and we're hands in a new blueprint, right?
00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:58.319
You know, we can change it.
00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:02.240
There's pain whether you're the lever or whether you're the levy, yeah, yeah.
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:17.839
There's pain, there's pain either way, there's certainly pain either way, and it it had to do with recognizing that I didn't have to be a certain way in order to be good with myself, right?
00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:28.000
Do you find that what you've experienced in your life with both of these stories that you've shared, and I know there's others, um, other stories within you.
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:32.160
Do you think it's informed how you lead your life now?
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:33.920
100%.
00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:36.880
Can you give me an example?
00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:45.279
I can give you an example in terms of food and in terms of uh my relationship that I'm in now.
00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:48.960
Um and in my relationship with other people as well.
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:49.359
Yeah.
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:59.440
And that is that you feel sort of those, those I call them my antique feelings, you know, the old feelings, the used feelings.
00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:00.319
I love that.
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:04.240
And and and you say, gosh, you know, I can't believe you're still there.
00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:06.160
Like you were supposed to not be there anymore.
00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:09.839
Didn't I got we got we we that that you know that went away.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:15.440
And and then you say, wait, wait, wait, okay, there's room for you, but there's like a little storage closet for you.
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:18.960
You no longer get to take up the majority of the storage.
00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:29.200
You get to take up a little space and I'm gonna I'm gonna put you away and I'm gonna respect you, but I'm not going to let you dictate what happens to me next in my life.
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:36.160
And I'm going to recognize that everybody's different, and I'm going to recognize that I can survive.
00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:37.039
Yeah.
00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:43.119
Which is why taking a risk and a chance and starting over is so important.
00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:44.640
Yeah, I love that.
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:51.200
You've like clearly developed such resiliency because of the experiences that you've had.
00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:52.000
Yeah.
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:53.839
Which is so, so beautiful.
00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:55.759
I I love all of this.
00:31:55.920 --> 00:32:08.319
I mean, I am so grateful for your vulnerability truly in sharing both of those stories because, again, that's how we help people see themselves and give them hope.
00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:12.160
Um, and and I so I really, really appreciate that.
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:30.160
And so my last kind of question is around just your work and and where I mean, where, yes, where people can find you, but more than that, what's your philosophy around your approach to therapy and how you work with your clients?
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:33.680
Like, what would you say are your core principles?
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:40.160
And were they developed as a result of your life story and all that you've learned?
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:47.759
Absolutely developed from my life story, from my relationships, from my connections to other people.
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:48.559
Yeah.
00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:54.319
Now, mostly my connection to myself, the newest part of my journey.
00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:54.960
Beautiful.
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:56.720
Kind of like where you come in.
00:32:56.880 --> 00:32:58.000
Yeah, for me.
00:32:58.160 --> 00:32:58.559
Seriously.
00:32:58.720 --> 00:32:59.039
Yeah.
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:14.720
But I was going to say, I had one thing to add, and I realized that the one thing I had to add actually answers your question about my principles, and that is that much of the time when somebody leaves a first or second session, I always compare a session to a first date.
00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:18.160
Like you kind of know if you want to kiss somebody after a first date.
00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:21.519
The chemistry, what you know, sometimes two dates, right?
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:22.000
Yeah.
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:30.880
And I will say to the person when they're leaving my office, I can't make you any big grandiose promises right now.
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:43.519
I I'm not going to make any major statements about your life because I don't know much about you, but I can guarantee you, you do not and will not always have to feel this way.
00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:45.200
You will feel better.
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:48.799
If you do the work, you can feel better.
00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:58.480
And that's my core principle of work is that you don't have to stay stuck in the pain.
00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:02.960
And at the same time, you don't have to run away from it.
00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:06.559
And you can tolerate learning to live with discomfort.
00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:11.760
Because much of the time when we try to get rid of discomfort, we do so in self-destructive ways.
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:12.559
Yeah.
00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:13.119
Yeah.
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:16.239
And it continues to show up because we're not listening.
00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:16.719
Exactly.
00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:21.280
To that, to that wisdom, to listening to what it has to say.
00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:30.000
You know, I know we talked about this briefly, but definitely the IFS parts work have influenced my work.
00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:39.599
Um, I believe very deeply that we have different parts that are associated to different aspects of our life, to different memories and experiences.
00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:45.920
And when we can really look at them, try to look at them objectively with compassion, at least.
00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:52.800
I I believe deeply in I Sparks work, and compassion is a huge piece.
00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:59.119
Like I will often say to a patient, let's talk to the little girl or little boy version of you.
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:00.079
Right, exactly.
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:00.559
Of course.
00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:07.920
They really are, they're in there and they deserve to be heard in a way that I don't think they ever were heard before.
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:09.199
Yeah, exactly.
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:30.480
And so many people that are not, you know, um not connected or familiar with IFS work, it's internal family parts work and it's internal family systems, and it's really identifying these different parts of us and honoring them and and looking at that little girl, looking at that little boy and really giving them a voice.
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:32.159
And so it's really beautiful.
00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:36.719
And I understand that people that are not connected to this work are like, what the hell are you talking about?
00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:38.320
Parts work, voice, da-da-da.
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:39.280
But it's real.
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:43.519
So if you are listening and there's any part of you that's like, what is that?
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:46.159
Lean in, DM, email me.
00:35:46.239 --> 00:35:48.320
I have a ton of resources to share.
00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:59.599
Um, because it's really, really important that we pick those parts, like separate them, isolate them so we remember that we're not all one thing, like you said earlier, you know, many things.
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:15.519
And we don't, we if we get to know those inner pieces of ourselves, yeah, we have much more control over what leads us, right, what informs us, and what we don't want to repeat anymore.
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:16.079
Right.
00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:19.599
That you know, that takes that takes really hard work.
00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:22.159
It's like going to the emotional gym, you know?
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:22.800
Yeah.
00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:26.559
That you know your heart and soul is a muscle, as is your mind.
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:28.719
And that's what it's like.
00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:29.840
Yeah, exactly.
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:31.039
And so worth it.
00:36:31.360 --> 00:36:36.000
Tell us where people can find you, how people can connect with you, please.
00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:40.960
When you can find me, um, my my phone number.
00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:42.800
Uh I'm not gonna give my office number.
00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:44.480
I wouldn't give your phone number here, yeah.
00:36:44.719 --> 00:36:46.239
You wouldn't give my cell number here?
00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:46.800
No.
00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:47.440
Okay.
00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:51.039
Um, you can find me under Lisa Angodnik.
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:55.199
It is um on the internet.
00:36:55.360 --> 00:37:08.800
You can Google me and you'll find me in Psychology Today, and you can leave me an email, or my phone number is on Psychology Today, and and you can reach out that way, and I will get back to you.
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:16.079
I'm I'm a fast responder, so I will get back to you within 24 hours and take it from there.
00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:17.119
I love it.
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:17.920
Oh my gosh.
00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:20.159
Thank you so much for being here with me today.
00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:21.440
I really appreciate you.
00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:25.199
I appreciate your stories and all the wisdom that you shared with us.
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:33.280
And thank you to everybody listening to the Wisdom from Within podcast, where human stories awaken leadership from within.
00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:35.679
I am so grateful for this platform.
00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:39.519
I'm so grateful for this movement, and I can't wait to see you all next week.
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:40.719
Okay, take care.
00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:42.159
Thank you so much.
00:37:42.639 --> 00:37:46.639
If something in this conversation spoke to you, don't keep it to yourself.
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:49.679
Send it to someone who might need that message too.
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:54.559
You can also send me a comment because I would love to know what it is that landed for you.
00:37:54.800 --> 00:38:05.519
But most importantly, take a moment to pause and listen to what it is that resonated because that's where your real guidance system lives.
00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:09.440
The one you can trust, the one you can rely on.
00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:11.039
See you next week.
