Stop Lying to Yourself: Practical Enlightenment with Giotto De Filippi

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Everything is now unity and imagination is now manifestation. Welcome
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to Unity Manifest podcast. Here is your host, Gary Kochililo.
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Enjoy the experience.
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Welcome everyone to another episode of Unity Manifest. I am
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your host, Gary Kochililo, and today our guest is Giao
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d Philippe. As I say that right, yes, correct, all right,
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And he has a substat page and he's interested in
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consciousness and he seems like a really interesting guest. So
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welcome to the show. Thank you. So where did this
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begin for you? We were talking before the show that
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you said they started at a young age. You're interested
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in I guess his consciousness. Where did it start and
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where do you plan on going with it?
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So, yes, I've always been interested since I was very
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young in let's say consciousness, spirituality, let's say the afterlife,
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the invisible, all those different terms, you know, all those
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different ideas. But everything I was reading, or like my
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mom was a lot into astrology, or I was reading
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like different books about like xotterism, occultism, whatever, you know,
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but it all seemed very impractical. It's all seemed like
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kind of scattered around, you know, like basically a lot
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of blah blah blah, and you don't really it doesn't
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seem actionable. Basically, maybe that's the key, or you know,
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it doesn't seem like there is anything actionable, so you just.
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Really really read.
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But then in reality nothing happens, nothing practical, nothing actionable,
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And so I was a little bit frustrated. I was like,
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isn't there something that is practical, that is actionable? And
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over many, many years, I think, event I found something,
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and then I decided to write this substract and I'm
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also writing a book which is going to be published
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around the year.
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Now it is what is it that you found that
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is practical?
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Yeah, So basically what I found is that, I think first,
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so the idea was centered around enlightenment, so let's talk
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about enlightenment. So I think the first thing is we
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have to at least I felt, they need to redefine
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enlightenment because often for many people it's not clear what
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enlightenment is.
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They have kind of a like.
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Very grandiose idea of some magical state of Bliez or whatever,
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you know, whereas I don't know if you heard of
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what's called the fetter approach, the ten fetters in BuddhismA.
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So It's more related to an idea that there are
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certain illusions, which I call stories, So like stories we
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tell ourselves. An example could be Santa Claus believing in
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Santa Claus. So there are certain beliefs or story we
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tell ourselves, and basically the process of enlightenment is a
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process of removal of those stories. So of course some
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stories are kind of obvious, but some are very very subtle,
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And as you remove those stories, it removes certain distortions
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that you have, so you see the world in a
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kind of distorted way because of those stories, like, for example,
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the idea of meaning. You know, when we assign meaning
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to things, it's mostly a story. It's the meaning is
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not real.
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The core of Duddhist is that all this is an illusion,
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that this is all just a story.
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Well, I'm not an expert in Buddhist, so what I
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did with the teacher is only what is called the
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unfettering approach, which is own because there are many, let's say,
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flavors of Buddhists which go from certain heaven, certain hell.
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I don't subscribe to any of that.
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The only part I looked into Buddhist was what is
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called the ten fetters. So like let's say the ten illusions,
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and you have to go through those ten steps. But
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in reality, I kind of adjusted it because even that
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didn't seem very practical to me. So but I just
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kept the concept of let's say those stories, those illusions,
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but not illusion as in what you see isn't real,
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because a lot of people they say, oh, what you see,
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like the idea of maya, you know, what you see
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is the trial?
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Why not? I mean, it's why it shouldn't be real.
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I have no idea. I mean, maybe it's real, maybe
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it's not. I don't know.
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But clearly we tell ourselves certain stories. For example, the
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idea of giving meanings to meaning to things is kind
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of a story, you know, like a certain actions, a
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certain significance. But what attributes that significance is basically our
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beliefs or belief of what the world is, how it
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should work, it operates, and is there a god or not?
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What does he do? What does he want from us?
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This kind of stuff.
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So it's the only portion I took from Buddhist is
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only this idea that we are telling ourselves certain stories,
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and we have to realize that those are just stories.
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Basically some illusions.
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But intended that stories like Santa Claus not illusion as
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the world is an illusion and et cetera. I mean,
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maybe it is, maybe it's not.
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I don't know.
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So I don't know if you've read mine. But I
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used to be a late Zen monk, and I have
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a book Alcohol Enlightenment guaranteed the only book on Zen
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you'll ever need. So definitely kind of familiar with this topic.
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Okay, you know.
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It's an interesting one because, like, look what you're saying.
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You know, like like don't believe the stories. But if
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that's true, then that also means that reality is not real.
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I mean the two. How can the two coexist? How
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can stories affect us so much in our minds and
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reality actually to be real at the same time, it's
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our minds that are creating reality, or it's creating our response.
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Without our minds, without our five senses, there's nothing.
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Yes, Okay, so let me try to answer step by step.
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So the first thing I think you say, I suggest
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believing in a story. I don't remember the word you used,
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But it's not like a commandment. It's not do not
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believe in story. It's more a realization. So it's not
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that someone tells you stop believing in Santa Claus. It's
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more that you realize that, for example, Santa Claus is
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supposed to enter from a chimney, but modern houses don't
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have chimneys, so it kind of doesn't make sense. So
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it's more like a realization that something does not make sense.
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And this story then this this integrates.
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You know, It's not that it's not a commandment like
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do not believe in stories. It's more like you realize
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that this story makes no sense, so it's wrench into it. Yeah,
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I mean, it's more that you observe a contradiction. Like
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again in the example of Santa Claus. You know, you say,
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Santa Claus, how they did enter my house in the
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past there were chimneys, but today they are not chimneys.
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But still the enter So you say that makes no
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sense because it didn't break the window or the door.
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The door was closed, the window was closed, there no chimney.
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How did it do impossible? You see, So now the
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other thing you say about reality.
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But yeah, if the chimney in the house are also
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an illusion, yeah, but that's it's all possible.
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Okay.
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So so regarding now reality versus illusion, the thing is,
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we have first to define what is reality and what
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is illusion.
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So it's really a matter of definition.
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So personally, I will define reality as everything that exists
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as opposed to what does not exist.
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So reality exist. I don't know, that's the that's the trick.
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We don't know what actually exists. We don't even know
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what we're living inside of.
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But but you need to know. I mean, is it
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so important.
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If we know, then we can manage it better. I
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think the more to look at it, the more choices
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we have, and the more choices we have, the better
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decisions we can make.
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Yeah, no, I agree.
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I agree. So if you have a better understanding of reality,
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then it gives you better discernment so you can effectively
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make better decisions.
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But I would say.
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It's a lot easier as a first step to just
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remove the stories of what is obviously false to make
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better decisions, and then the next step will be to
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try to understand how thing works.
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But believe, this is where I'm going now. Is nothing
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is actually false because everything is false.
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But we could argue that then some things are more
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false than all. Let's say Santa Claus is more false
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than gravity.
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But if everything is false. You can't add that argument anymore.
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But why would it be false?
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I mean, so gravity is false in your opinion, you
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don't jump out of the window.
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I don't know. Sometimes I mean, I mean, when I'm asleep.
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I can, yeah, but because you're dreaming.
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So what is the difference between being asleep and awake?
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And how do I know that when I'm awake I'm
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not actually asleep?
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Well, I would argue that the difference is, and it's
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just my intuition. Yeah, the difference is that the awake
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state is more permanent. So it's like every dream is different.
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It's like it's own bubble, but every time you wake up,
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you continue from the previous day. So it's more persistent
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in some way. That is, if you break your leg
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in the actual waking state, tomorrow, it's still broken. If
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you dream your leg in the dream, then the tomorrow
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dream the leg is fine. So I would argue it's
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more real in the sense that it's more persistent compared
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to the dream.
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So you're saying that it falls into more of a
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pattern of routine or loop or feedback loop that we're
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stuck and stuck in and we keep returning to it.
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I wouldn't say why we have to qualify as stuck.
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It seems like a negative connotation. I guess see it
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just as an attribute or a quality of persistence, just
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like let's say, I don't know, steel is more persistent
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than eyes. They are both solids, but the eyes will
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melt very quickly and the steel will.
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Probably not unless you burn it.
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So maybe the waking state is more persistent in the
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sense that it will continue from the previous day, whereas
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the dream will kind of rest it every night.
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I guess, yeah, I mean so, don't you.
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Then how do you explain supernatural events?
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I don't think there's anything.
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People lavitating, people walking on water.
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Yeah, I would say, assuming it's true, because I've never
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seen it.
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But I'm not saying it's not true. I just I've
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never seen it.
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You've never experienced anything supernaturally real. If you've never experienced
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deja vu.
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Maybe it's yes, but not levitation and not something extreme
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like livitation, you know, so deja view. Maybe one could
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argue it's an issue with the mind or some misconnection.
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I don't know.
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But have you ever seen a ghost? No?
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You did?
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Yeah, I used to be a paranormal investigator.
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So yeah, okay, okay, okay, I see, I've.
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Gone out looking for those things I see.
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I see.
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So no, personally, no, I've not seen a ghost. But
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I I mean, I know, for example, you know, there
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is something called like you know, people just before they die,
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they have some visions and then they die with in
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twenty four hours. This is extremely common, it seems, and
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it's well documented. So I have really no issue believing that.
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I think it's perfectly reasonable. But the thing is, I
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would then call it paranormal. I would just call it
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normal in the sense it's something that we don't know. Well,
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just like let's say if maybe a thousand years ago
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people did not know about X rays, but it doesn't
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mean they did not exist.
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I agree.
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Maybe I can call it the invisible. So it's like,
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let's say, is there a spirit world? I don't know,
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but if there is, it's not paranormal. It's just invisible
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to us. And maybe in a thousand years they would
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maybe you know, some of those technology that you used
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that they can detect goals or I don't know, maybe
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those tools already exist, but maybe in a thousand years
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they will be as accurate as a city's kind of
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an MRI. So it's just something that is not visible
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to us or not easy to be visible.
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But I wouldn't call it superlateral.
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I would just call it naturally in the sense that
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if it exists, it's natural.
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Yeah. Yeah, I think it's something that we haven't explained yet.
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But yeah, exactly. But I will say indicators do point
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to overlapping realities of consciousness.
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What do you mean, Like, what I mean is like
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when I.
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Say that we don't exist, what I'm promosing is that
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we are part of a natural pattern, and that pattern
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it's inside of us, it's inside the universe. It's like
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it's sort of like the Fibonacci sequence, you know, kind
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of like that, but it's like in our DNA, it's
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in everything. It's everywhere, Okay, And what this, what is
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happening is is frequencies or waves enter the pattern, and
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when they enter the pattern, it starts reflecting back and
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forth off of different angles inside the pattern, creating an
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illusion of reality of a three dimensional reality. We so
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we have this mirrored illusion that we're inside of, and
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as we move through it, that's sort of like our life,
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our journey, and then we sort of come back out
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and we return to whatever it is the source of
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consciousness with some type of transformation.
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Oh, I mean, yeah, I guess from that.
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Type of structure though, we are waves of consciousness, not
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necessarily physical. The physical is what we are when we're
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inside the but when we exit the pattern, we're no
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longer physical. We go back to being a wave of
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consciousness or part of the stream of consciousness, a current.
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Yeah, I mean, from my perspective, I would argue that
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everything is possible. So I don't know if what you
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say describes reality accurrectly or if it doesn't. It may
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very well do, or it may not. I just don't know,
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so I don't pretend to know. I just say I
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don't know. But regarding existence, however, I will say, we
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have the certainty that we exist. And the reason why
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we can be certain that we exist is because by
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asking ourselves the questions, the question if we exist or not,
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we must exist in order to ask that question. So
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if we did not exist, then we could not ask
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the question if we exist. So then effectively we know
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that we exist. At least that is a certainty that
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we exist.
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Because not necessarily, because if you look at yourself in
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the mirror. Does the reflection exist or do you exist?
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And what if? What if the reflection is looking back
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at you going oh, yes, so more you know what
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I mean? So you don't know?
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Yea, so yes, you're You're right in the sense that
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there is an in what I said.
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There is an.
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Ambiguity with the word you because it depends what you is.
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But then you could still say the same sentence by
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replacing you with something, So you can say something exists,
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because if nothing existed, then I couldn't ask the question
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do I exist?
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You see?
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So something must exist.
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Now, yes, maybe it's improper to use the term you,
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but still something must exist or I couldn't be asking that.
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We couldn't we wouldn't be having this conversation. So something exists.
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This is a certainty. The rest I don't know, you see,
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But I know that something exists, but I.
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Don't know what. I think it's a word or consciousness
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would be.
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It could be, yes, it could be.
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But I'd rather stick to I don't know and and
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try to remove the things that are I can discover
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our faults rather than try to add things I add
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than adding new belief that I suspect are true. I
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rather remove beliefs that I discover our false usually through contradiction.
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And how do you do that? What is mythology?
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Well, so the methodology is basically to be very honest
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with yourself. So I call it the practice of authenticity. So,
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you know, people say that it's bad to lie to others,
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but in reality, it's much worse to lie to yourself.
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So the first step is really to never, never lie
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to yourself. So let's say I give you this example. Usually,
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so let's say someone is an alcoholic. The first step
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to fix it, to change is to admit that you're
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an alcoholic, that you have a problem, and then you
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can go in some course and some coach or some
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I don't know, some doctor you know.
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But if you say no, that's not true.
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You know, I'm not an alcoholic, but you drink every
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day like three bottles, then you're stuck, you see. So
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it's extremely important to have to be completely on. So
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let's say when you do something. Let's say you someone
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asks you for money, to give them some money or
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lend some money, you know, and you don't really feel
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like it, you don't really want but then you say, yeah,
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but I'm a generous person, so you feel that this
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is kind of your identity and you have to defend
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this story that you're a generous person.
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So you end up feeling forced to give it, but
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you don't want.
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But it's just to defend kind of your ego or
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this story to your generous And then you keep lying
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to yourself, yes I'm generous, but it would be much
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better to say I am very selfish.
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But then and then to say why I am so selfish?
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And then you start digging and you discover the motivation,
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and then now maybe then you can change, you see,
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But the first step is really complete honestly, at least
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with yourself. I'm not saying to be always honest with others.
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It's not about morality here, it's about practicality. So if
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you are not fully honest with yourself, it's very difficult
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to uncover those stories.
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Why do we do that?
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Do we lie to ourselves?
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Yeah?
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My theory, and it's just my theory, is that we
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have a need to feel special. So a lot of
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this stuff with you is centered around this ego, let's say,
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or this desire or this need to feel special. So
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I have to be smarter, brighter, more beautiful, more rich,
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more generous, more holy. You know, so I can't feel special. Basically,
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let's say it can even be spiritual. So I say
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I meditate more hours than you, I'm more spiritual than you. Say,
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so I'm special in any possible angle, you can still
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try to feel more special. Most of those stories are
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related to the desire to be special.
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Where does desire come from?
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Well, I think desire is a big topic. I think.
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First of all, I think there is a lot of
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gurus that they say that desire is bad, and I
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completely disagree, because desire is essential for survival. I mean,
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if you don't desire to be healthy, then you just
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eat junk food and get sick. If you don't desire
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to leave, you will not pay attention when you cross
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the treat and get hit by a car. So I
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think the difference is between what I would call healthy
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desires or direct desire, or unhealthy desires or indirect desire.
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So what is the difference.
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Basically, the healthy desire is just a preference, whereas the
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unhealthy desire is based on a story. So for example,
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let's say I need a ferrari because everyone will respect me,
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you see, so, or stuff like this. So the issue
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with the desire is when it's based on a story
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you tell yourself. So if all I want the Ferrari
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because I believe people would respect me if I have
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the Ferrari. But let's see, I like chocolate ice cream.
380
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I mean, what's wrong with that? It's just a preference
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for chocolate ice cream. So the issue depends really what
382
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is the desire, if it's caused by a pure preference,
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or if it's caused by a story that we tell ourselves.
384
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Without desire, there's no stories, there.
385
00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:04.000
No no, there are direct desires, so there are like
386
00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:07.240
let's say chocolate the cream is purely a preference, whereas
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an indirect desire would be A nice example is this,
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like people want to take a hot bad because it's
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pleasant to take a hot bad. It's just pleasure. It
390
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doesn't matter if everyone in the world can or only
391
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you can. But let's say a diamond. You want a
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00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:25.400
diamond only because very few people can afford one. If
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there were diamonds everywhere, you wouldn't want it. So the
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diamond is more like a story desire. The hot bad
395
00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:33.799
is more a direct desire, is a preference.
396
00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:42.160
M I still wonder. Without the desire, there's no reason.
397
00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:46.039
I think without desire, there is no lives because I.
398
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Say, I think desire is built into our DNA.
399
00:20:50.119 --> 00:20:52.720
Of course we desire to drink, to eat. I mean
400
00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:55.039
I would say if without desire, we will die. Yes,
401
00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:58.200
but then this is the direct desire. But then the
402
00:20:58.279 --> 00:21:00.880
indirect desire, which is the on the story this you
403
00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:03.960
can't it will not affect your survival. If you remove
404
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:06.160
the desire to eat, you will die. But if you
405
00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:08.559
remove the desire to own a lot of time.
406
00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:10.880
But the only desire we have is to eat and
407
00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:18.160
satisfire bottle we need then for human anyway, that's kind
408
00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:18.680
of boring.
409
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:22.240
Yes, yeah, yeah, I mean have.
410
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:24.440
Some larger purpose to expand.
411
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:29.799
Yes, maybe this is called like aspiration. So, but it's
412
00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:31.920
not the same as a story desire. So let's say
413
00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:36.240
the curiosity, the desire to understand, you know, this will
414
00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:38.519
be also a direct desire. Maybe we can call it
415
00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:42.319
aspiration to distinguish it from let's say just eating and drinking.
416
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:45.440
But then the fact that you want a ferrari because
417
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:47.720
you think if you're if you have a ferrari, you're cool.
418
00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:52.319
That's purely a story. But there are also aspiration. Let's
419
00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:55.079
say I want to understand more about reality, about how
420
00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:56.000
the universe works.
421
00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:57.240
This is kind of a desire.
422
00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:00.279
Maybe you can call it aspiration, but it's it's this
423
00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:03.960
is a direct desire, the curiosity, desire, the desire to
424
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:07.519
know more, you know, the desire to be wiser. I
425
00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:10.200
guess that's also a desire, of course, probably a useful
426
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:10.759
desire to have.
427
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:15.599
Do you believe God gives us a purpose?
428
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:19.079
So the thing is, we will have to define God
429
00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:22.319
first of all. So that's a very tricky question. So
430
00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:25.079
I don't think we can answer this question without defining God.
431
00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:29.960
But if we argue that God is reality in the
432
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:32.799
sense that so let's say reality is everything that exists,
433
00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:35.960
that is absolutely everything, and we say God is this
434
00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:39.359
is reality itself. Because if God was let's say that
435
00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:44.240
God is everything except this microphone, Well then it's limited.
436
00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:47.240
It is not absolute, you know, so in some way God,
437
00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:49.960
at least that's just my thinking. Yeah, so God will
438
00:22:50.039 --> 00:22:52.680
have to be absolutely everything. So God will have to
439
00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:56.240
be all of reality. Now, all of reality as a
440
00:22:56.279 --> 00:22:58.839
purpose for itself or all of reality.
441
00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:00.359
I don't see why not.
442
00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:03.200
I mean, I'm not sure, but I don't see why
443
00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:04.200
it shouldn't be the case.
444
00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:04.880
Why not?
445
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:08.799
I mean, it seems reasonable, but again it's not. It's
446
00:23:08.839 --> 00:23:11.839
just a possibility. I'm saying it seems plausible. But I
447
00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:13.960
would then say for sure it's like that, I say,
448
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:15.440
I don't know, but why not?
449
00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:18.279
Do you want to know?
450
00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:22.480
I guess every day we learn a little bit more.
451
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:24.400
I don't think we will. I don't think we will
452
00:23:24.440 --> 00:23:25.000
reach a point.
453
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I don't.
454
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I think it's very difficult in general to reach a
455
00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:31.640
point where we know for sure, you know. But I
456
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:34.920
think we can through approximation, we can approach to a
457
00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:36.240
better understanding of reality.
458
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:41.759
But it's never I don't think it's possible.
459
00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:45.000
I don't think it's possible for us to understand reality
460
00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:47.119
and it's complete forward as long as we're in a body,
461
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and I think also when we're even outside of the body,
462
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:56.480
reality is huge, you know. I think I think for
463
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one possibility to exist, in all other possibility, these have
464
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to exist.
465
00:24:03.079 --> 00:24:05.559
Possibly did you ever leave your body or this kind
466
00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:07.880
of stuff? Because I did not, so I'm skept. I mean,
467
00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:09.640
I'm not saying I don't believe. I'm just say I
468
00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:11.839
don't know. Is it an experience you had.
469
00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:13.880
Yeah, I've had some near death experiences.
470
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I see, I see, I see. Okay, I do have.
471
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:22.079
Experiment experiment obviously, meditation as a monk, you know it,
472
00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:24.480
don't you know, just take many different types of meditations,
473
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:30.359
So we could try breathing, psychedelics, there's all different ways
474
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to experience, you know, larger perspectives of reality.
475
00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:40.079
Yeah, I see. I mean I think reality may very
476
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:42.200
well be infinite. You know, so if it's infinite, then
477
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:44.799
by definition we cannot know how to pretend.
478
00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:47.240
We can't know, but we can't expand that word. We
479
00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:52.400
definitely can't expand you definitely have the ability to, you know,
480
00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:56.599
move past our limited view into a bit of a
481
00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:59.720
larger perspective. Yeah.
482
00:24:59.720 --> 00:25:02.160
I guess every day you learn a little bit more
483
00:25:02.200 --> 00:25:04.079
so in theory, every day you have a like, you
484
00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:06.799
get wiser. Every day you get wiser, so every day
485
00:25:06.839 --> 00:25:09.200
you have a slightly better understanding of reality.
486
00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:14.160
I guess, h do you ever do any experimentation to
487
00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:19.720
you know, meditation, psychedelics, breathing.
488
00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:22.039
So not yet.
489
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So I actually plan to do in a few days
490
00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:29.200
something like some some experience like that. I will not
491
00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:33.920
give details here in the podcast, but I plan to
492
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:36.200
do an experience like that just out of pure curiosity.
493
00:25:36.279 --> 00:25:39.240
To be honest, there's nothing wrong with it, you know,
494
00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:43.359
like like illegal where you're at, well, I.
495
00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:47.920
Will have to double check. I don't think it's illegal.
496
00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:51.359
But I'd rather basically not talk about it.
497
00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:56.480
Okay, So not what I What was I saying? So meditation.
498
00:25:56.599 --> 00:26:01.279
Basically I'm a little bit against meditation because I mean,
499
00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:02.920
it's not that I'm really against, but I think a
500
00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:05.200
lot of people they believe that meditation is kind of
501
00:26:05.799 --> 00:26:09.400
a source it's going to give you something, which I mean,
502
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:12.039
it may very well give you something, but maybe I
503
00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:14.519
think it's not going to give them what they think,
504
00:26:14.839 --> 00:26:18.759
you know, And the idea is because enlightenment, at least
505
00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:22.480
from my perspective, is is about It's not about reaching
506
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:25.839
some certain state of like bleach or relaxation, et cetera.
507
00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:28.920
It's more about having a realization, Whereas I think some
508
00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:32.480
people they confuse that. Let's say the practice of meditation
509
00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:36.240
is like they will sit and they will close their
510
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:40.480
eyes and they will meditate, and they reach that state
511
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:43.480
and they believe it's enlightenment. But in reality, once the
512
00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:47.880
medician finishes and they and then they're back to let's
513
00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:48.680
say to square one.
514
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:50.599
You see, understand what I mean.
515
00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:53.480
So it's I don't believe that you're going to reach
516
00:26:53.559 --> 00:26:56.039
enlightenment by just doing a lot of meditation, you see.
517
00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:59.880
I believe you're going to reach enlightenment by introspection and
518
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:07.319
thinking and reasoning and realizing certain things. So meditation by itself,
519
00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:09.359
I mean, of course, if the mutation is useful for
520
00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:12.559
you as a tool to do the introspection, you know,
521
00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:15.920
then it's great. But I think a lot of people
522
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:18.680
they see meditation as let's say, an end in itself,
523
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:22.160
you know. Like so it's like basically, if you meditate
524
00:27:22.359 --> 00:27:24.079
enough hours per day, you reach enlightment.
525
00:27:24.119 --> 00:27:25.519
And I think that's kind of a trap.
526
00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:28.160
I mean, sure, you can be in a very nice state,
527
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:32.480
but it's then once the mutician is over, I would
528
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:33.559
say you're back to square one.
529
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:37.759
To square one, I.
530
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:40.960
Think meditation I agree with you somewhat. I believe that
531
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:44.440
enlightenment is actually something very simple, and I talk about
532
00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:47.599
a lot of that in my book, that the reason
533
00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:51.680
I can guarantee enlightenment is simply because you're already enlightened
534
00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:55.279
in just not paying attention to it. Because we spend
535
00:27:55.319 --> 00:28:00.839
so much time thinking when we stop, we can have
536
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:07.440
small glimpses of absolute awareness or what's closer to absolute
537
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:11.039
awareness for us to experience in the moment that we're in.
538
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:15.920
I also think that there's many many ways to have
539
00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:19.799
those type of experiences, not just in meditation, but through
540
00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:26.359
you know, things like kebala, ritual exercise and all those
541
00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:29.799
different things to give us a glimpse of what's pasted.
542
00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:33.200
And yes, we do have to come back because this
543
00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:37.119
is where we're at currently. But the goal was, though,
544
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:41.440
I believe, is to with that knowledge of knowing that
545
00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:46.680
there's this other reality or other way of looking at things,
546
00:28:47.440 --> 00:28:51.599
changes how we think in this state. So we bring
547
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:55.559
something back, you know, we bring back the fire and
548
00:28:55.599 --> 00:28:57.359
then we spread it through the world.
549
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:02.039
Yes, I mean, so let me say a quick it's
550
00:29:02.119 --> 00:29:04.039
kind of a joke, but I think it's interesting because
551
00:29:04.039 --> 00:29:07.359
it illustrates what I think about meditation. So the story
552
00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:09.720
is there is a guy that he go in some retreat,
553
00:29:09.799 --> 00:29:11.640
let's say, in some temple, you know, and he just
554
00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:14.839
stay isolated. So he meditates all day long, never speak
555
00:29:14.839 --> 00:29:17.920
to anybody only it rise and meditate for many, many
556
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:20.599
years and then he feels like basically as rich enlightenment,
557
00:29:20.599 --> 00:29:24.319
so he's in a constant peaceful state and whatever. So
558
00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:26.160
he go back to his own country because you want
559
00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:28.759
to tell everybody about this, and then in the train
560
00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:32.880
someone pushes him and he gets really angry. So you
561
00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:37.279
understand the joke. So the point is, yes, in a
562
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:41.799
certain environment, you can be in that specific state. But
563
00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:45.519
if your state is dependent on the environment, then what's
564
00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:48.240
the point. So this guy, yes, when he was isolated
565
00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:50.759
in the temple alone for ten years and he was
566
00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:52.960
militating all day long, he was peaceful.
567
00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:54.119
But as soon as he come.
568
00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:55.440
Back to the city and he's in the train and
569
00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:58.799
they push him, he immediately gets angry. So his state,
570
00:29:58.920 --> 00:30:05.079
let's say, why dependent on the environment, whereas our realization
571
00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:07.799
is independent of the once.
572
00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:12.799
That's not the point of meditation. So what is like
573
00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:15.559
like I just meant when you when you when you
574
00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:20.640
have those touches with absolute or or even just slight
575
00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:26.559
nudges of expanded consciousness or awareness where we opened up
576
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:30.400
to more ideas, you know, or even inspiration. I mean,
577
00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:33.079
that's kind of what inspiration is, you know what I mean?
578
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:39.079
If people didn't bring back inspiration, we wouldn't have any inventions.
579
00:30:39.079 --> 00:30:41.519
We wouldn't have any books, we wouldn't have any imagination,
580
00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:47.400
nothing would exist. Like, you can't say that everything that
581
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:51.920
exists in our reality came from some kind of biological process.
582
00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:56.799
Art does not come from a biological process. It does
583
00:30:56.880 --> 00:30:58.799
not come from a biological process.
584
00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:01.440
Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
585
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:05.240
I'm not expert enough to I don't have the answer
586
00:31:05.319 --> 00:31:07.640
to this, but I understand. So for you, meditation it's
587
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:09.319
more like a way to get inspiration.
588
00:31:10.599 --> 00:31:14.920
I think it's a way to not just the inspiration,
589
00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:18.559
but it does a lot of things. Knowing that there's
590
00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:22.000
another reality, a sort of crossing in that we're just
591
00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:30.839
moving through something rather than being alive, coming into existence
592
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:35.720
and terminating, you know, or or believing in heaven or hell.
593
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:39.599
But to think of ourselves as a flowing current makes
594
00:31:39.640 --> 00:31:40.200
sense to me.
595
00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:45.839
Yeah, I mean, again, I don't know, it's possible. The
596
00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:49.119
focus of let's say, what I did was really about removing,
597
00:31:49.160 --> 00:31:52.960
about removing certain beliefs, you know, like certain certainty, especially
598
00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:55.440
about identity, so you believe you are these you are bad.
599
00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:57.519
But they would just say we don't exist. I mean
600
00:31:57.519 --> 00:31:59.880
that is kind of like the whole Buddhism thing is
601
00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:00.640
we do not.
602
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:01.400
No, we do exist.
603
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:05.640
Something exists with I say, like if because if nothing existed,
604
00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:07.640
we couldn't have this conversation.
605
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:09.920
If nothing exists.
606
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:12.400
But that's impossible, No, for.
607
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:16.319
For nothing to exist and something has to exist, yes,
608
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:20.079
or something or something has to exist and either for
609
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:22.160
nothing to exist. Right.
610
00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:25.359
No, No, it's it's impossible that nothing.
611
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:28.200
Because nothing in something or duality.
612
00:32:29.559 --> 00:32:31.599
Unless you mean that nothing has so.
613
00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:35.559
There has to be something out of beyond nothing in something.
614
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:41.440
So because it depends on something that we can't grasp. Wait, wait,
615
00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:45.000
so if by nothing you mean absolute nothing ness, then.
616
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:47.960
What what I'm saying is like they can like say
617
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:52.119
like black and white are opposite, right, or day night? Okay,
618
00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:58.000
something and nothing are like that. Okay, but day and
619
00:32:58.119 --> 00:33:01.039
night is something that we only experience on this planet.
620
00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:05.880
When we go outward, we don't have that anymore, do we.
621
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:07.960
We're not living in a world of day and night.
622
00:33:08.759 --> 00:33:12.680
So I'm saying, as we pull back far enough, there
623
00:33:12.839 --> 00:33:15.680
is no more existing in non existing.
624
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:19.039
I have no idea, but yeah, I understand your point.
625
00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:22.000
So basically you're saying day and night is relative. Let's
626
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:25.759
say to Ashuman, it's non existence. You say, I mean
627
00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:28.880
maybe I don't know it's possible, yes, but but I understand.
628
00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:31.480
So you say like they so you say those things
629
00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:34.759
could become a relative at some point. Basically, the idea
630
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:38.079
of existence versus non existence, just like day and night,
631
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:40.799
could not be absolute but could be relative. That's what
632
00:33:40.839 --> 00:33:44.200
you're saying. They have to they have to be.
633
00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:47.680
I mean, do you have any other explanation for existence
634
00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:48.720
and non existence?
635
00:33:49.839 --> 00:33:52.519
Well, because you could very well argue that non existence
636
00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:55.880
is just a concept, just like a triangle. So you know,
637
00:33:56.079 --> 00:33:58.720
it's not because you can conceptualize something that it has
638
00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:02.400
to actually exist. It may exist, but it may also not.
639
00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:05.000
So let's say non existence could actually exist.
640
00:34:05.319 --> 00:34:07.839
But for something that may exist not exist means that
641
00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:10.119
there has to be something else outside of the two.
642
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:14.800
But maybe it's not true. Maybe that is just what
643
00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:16.880
exists and that's it. Maybe non existence does.
644
00:34:16.760 --> 00:34:22.079
Not exist, doesn't exist in existence can't exist. Why.
645
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:24.719
I mean, existence could very well exist. Existence is everything
646
00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:27.760
that exists, and non existence is not there. But it's
647
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:29.800
just a possiunity. I'm not saying that's the case. I'm
648
00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:30.480
saying it could be.
649
00:34:31.960 --> 00:34:34.079
What do you think where do you think existence is
650
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:34.679
coming from?
651
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:37.480
What do you think is creating what I don't think
652
00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:38.400
it anywhere?
653
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:40.440
Do you think that we create this reality? Do you
654
00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:44.280
think it was just the biological events? Do you believe
655
00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:47.079
it's consciousness? What do you think is happening?
656
00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:48.320
Yeah?
657
00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:50.679
I mean, to be honest, I mostly don't know. The
658
00:34:50.719 --> 00:34:53.000
thing is, when you say we create, you have to
659
00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:56.239
define what is we, you know, because that's the big question.
660
00:34:56.320 --> 00:34:59.679
So when you say we create, what is we exactly?
661
00:35:00.519 --> 00:35:02.440
So is it me? Is it you? And what is me?
662
00:35:02.480 --> 00:35:03.920
And what is you? Is they think?
663
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:04.079
Is?
664
00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:04.159
It?
665
00:35:04.199 --> 00:35:07.199
Gets very tricky already to define what is the Wii?
666
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:07.559
You know?
667
00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:12.159
But I also will argue that existence probably create it
668
00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:15.639
create I mean in quotes create space and time itself.
669
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:20.360
So you cannot really ask what's create existence because space
670
00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:22.760
and time is part of existence. So it's not about
671
00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:25.920
what's before. There is nothing before I mean the concept
672
00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:28.920
the linear concept of time. There is nothing before time,
673
00:35:29.079 --> 00:35:31.679
you see what I mean? So because there is nothing
674
00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:34.199
before time, it's like you cannot really ask what it's
675
00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:37.639
like asking what created time? It will have to be
676
00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:39.880
something that comes before. But what comes before time?
677
00:35:41.800 --> 00:35:45.280
I think time is bs. I don't think it exists.
678
00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:48.639
But still you experience it. So I mean, yeah, right now.
679
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:52.320
We experience it because like I think, like as soon
680
00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:56.639
as that wave hits the pattern, we start seeing things
681
00:35:56.719 --> 00:36:00.639
in a living your way mm hmm. You know, but
682
00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:03.840
outside of it, everything exists at once.
683
00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:08.599
It's possible, I mean, yes, I mean I also think
684
00:36:08.599 --> 00:36:11.039
that there is a possibility that there could be something
685
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:13.840
outside of space and time, like some kind of further dimension.
686
00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:16.920
But again I don't take it as certainly. I just
687
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:18.760
say it's possible, you know, why not?
688
00:36:19.480 --> 00:36:22.400
Why not? Why not an extra dimension that will contain
689
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:23.480
both time and space?
690
00:36:23.599 --> 00:36:23.920
Why not?
691
00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:27.159
Yeah, it's absolutely possible, but I don't know. I've never
692
00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:30.000
experienced it. I do know for sure, but it seems plausible.
693
00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:33.519
Yeah. So, as a beginning in the episode, you mentioned
694
00:36:33.519 --> 00:36:37.239
how you like to take these ideas to make them practical.
695
00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:38.519
How do you do that?
696
00:36:39.880 --> 00:36:41.960
Well, so, as I said, the first step is really
697
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:45.280
the authenticity. That is to not lie to yourself and
698
00:36:45.400 --> 00:36:48.719
identify the story you tell yourself. Usually those stories they
699
00:36:48.760 --> 00:36:52.079
take the form of rationalization. So like you don't want
700
00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:54.920
to do something, I mean, you don't feel like doing something,
701
00:36:54.920 --> 00:36:57.000
but you kind of or you want to do something,
702
00:36:57.039 --> 00:36:59.440
but you kind of feel it's wrong to do it.
703
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:01.840
So you build up a story that it's okay. So
704
00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:05.039
usually it's like what's called a rationalization, you know, when
705
00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:07.719
you build up basically an excuse. You know, like either
706
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:10.320
you want to do something but you think you shouldn't,
707
00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:12.760
and so you build up a big story that why
708
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:14.719
it's okay to do it, or the opposite, you don't
709
00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:17.920
want to do something, sorry, but you understand the idea
710
00:37:17.920 --> 00:37:20.880
of rationalization where basically you build up a story as
711
00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:24.280
a justification. Basically you know, or in general all day.
712
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:28.239
But basically there are two main pillars of stories. One
713
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:31.159
is called the should stories, and it's the every time
714
00:37:31.159 --> 00:37:33.519
you use the word should, it's kind of like a virus.
715
00:37:33.559 --> 00:37:36.920
It's like a toxic word because it implies the idea
716
00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:39.760
that there is some kind of agent with some sort
717
00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:44.400
of absolute free will that can like fork, like split
718
00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:47.880
the universe in two and create an alternative reality. And
719
00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:50.599
so you are like you, basically you wish you had
720
00:37:50.599 --> 00:37:53.400
done something else. But the thing is every decision you make.
721
00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:58.079
When you made that decision, you made what you believe
722
00:37:58.199 --> 00:38:01.239
to be the best decision based on the information you
723
00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:03.960
had at the time. There was no alternative decision you
724
00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:06.400
could have made, so Let's say you play the roulette
725
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:10.079
and you bet on red and the spin it's spins,
726
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:11.639
you know, and then it's black, and you say, oh,
727
00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:12.679
I should have bet on black.
728
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:14.119
But it's not true.
729
00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:17.480
Because when you bet on red, you had a very
730
00:38:17.519 --> 00:38:21.480
specific motive, its very specific reason why you believed, maybe
731
00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:24.800
just a hunch, but still you believed it will be red,
732
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:27.960
so you bet on red. So you just made the
733
00:38:28.039 --> 00:38:30.599
decision you believe was the best at that point in time.
734
00:38:31.159 --> 00:38:33.000
Why would you have made anything different. Of course, in
735
00:38:33.159 --> 00:38:37.320
insight you say I should, But that's just in insight bias,
736
00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:40.079
you see, there is no substance in that. So what
737
00:38:40.119 --> 00:38:42.960
we often do is we think that things should be
738
00:38:43.039 --> 00:38:45.679
different from what they are, either because we don't like
739
00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:48.280
the way they are, or because we think we should
740
00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:49.840
have made a different decision in the past.
741
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:51.440
But that makes no sense.
742
00:38:51.480 --> 00:38:55.639
So effectively, we are just comparing the actual reality with
743
00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:58.480
the image in reality of that kind of fork in
744
00:38:58.519 --> 00:39:01.760
the universe. And of course it's painful because the imaging
745
00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:04.800
reality is always better. You say, so if you better
746
00:39:04.840 --> 00:39:08.400
read and you lose because it's black, then you say
747
00:39:08.480 --> 00:39:08.920
I should.
748
00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:10.599
You imagine what if.
749
00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:13.519
You had played black black? But when you win, you
750
00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:16.360
never do that, you see, you never imagine that you'd lost,
751
00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:19.239
and you compare. So it's only when things don't go
752
00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:21.880
the way you want that you're imagine that they could
753
00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:25.000
have went the way you wanted, you see, and you
754
00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:27.800
kind of compare. And that creates some sort of suffering
755
00:39:27.880 --> 00:39:31.239
because it's the gap, the comparison, you know, between what
756
00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:33.719
has happened and what you think should have happened. So
757
00:39:33.800 --> 00:39:37.159
it makes most people life miserable, this constant comparison. So
758
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:40.559
it's the main the two main stories that I found.
759
00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:43.400
I mean, there are also smaller stories, but the two pillars,
760
00:39:43.480 --> 00:39:46.639
let's say the two foundations is one is the should story,
761
00:39:46.679 --> 00:39:50.079
this idea of the word should, which is very common
762
00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:51.840
to think in terms of shoot, I should have done this,
763
00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:53.840
this should have happened, this is wrong.
764
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:54.440
Blah blah blah.
765
00:39:54.679 --> 00:39:57.920
And then the identity stories, which is the stories we
766
00:39:57.960 --> 00:39:59.079
attached to our identity.
767
00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:02.239
So I'm smart, I'm beautiful.
768
00:40:01.719 --> 00:40:06.320
I'm I'm I don't know, I'm rich, I'm special. Basically
769
00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:09.480
I'm special, I'm more spiritual and more holy whatever, you know,
770
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:12.480
all those things to feel special. And the thing is
771
00:40:12.519 --> 00:40:15.639
often we are willing to do crazy thing to defend
772
00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:18.039
those things. So let's say someone say, oh you're Let's
773
00:40:18.039 --> 00:40:20.800
say I believe I'm brave. You know, I tell myself
774
00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:23.440
I'm a very brave person. Someone can challenge me to
775
00:40:23.480 --> 00:40:26.599
do something very stupid that is dangerous, and I may
776
00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:28.639
do it just to prove to me and to him
777
00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:31.079
that I'm brave. You see. So those are kind of
778
00:40:31.119 --> 00:40:33.920
the two main stories, like the shul story and the
779
00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:37.239
identity story. And the way to fix it is this
780
00:40:37.480 --> 00:40:41.639
extreme authenticity. So never lie to yourself and so never
781
00:40:41.679 --> 00:40:45.239
do those justifications, rationalization, et cetera. And so when you
782
00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:49.119
catch yourself, just stop and say so, instead of pretending
783
00:40:49.119 --> 00:40:52.559
to be generous because you want to be generous, just say, wait,
784
00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:55.559
I'm very selfish. Why I am so selfish? And then
785
00:40:55.599 --> 00:40:58.679
you start to think why you're selfish?
786
00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:03.320
I just told myself I'm selfish, that I don't really exist.
787
00:41:04.119 --> 00:41:04.760
Let the ship go.
788
00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:07.960
So you told yourself that you don't really exist.
789
00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:13.000
M yeah, I mean unlike I don't really exist. So
790
00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:15.159
why am I going to make a big fuss about
791
00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:20.119
something's all? It's all plus, I mean, it's all temporary.
792
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:24.639
I'm gonna die, You're gonna yeah, So none of this
793
00:41:25.239 --> 00:41:26.800
really makes a difference.
794
00:41:29.079 --> 00:41:31.000
Well, the we have to define what it means make
795
00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:33.760
a difference, because maybe your life could be much more enjoyable.
796
00:41:34.960 --> 00:41:38.159
This mental suffering of the shoot, for example, or the
797
00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:42.199
effort we part in defending a pretend identity is painful.
798
00:41:42.320 --> 00:41:45.400
Effort is a form of pain, and the mental suffering
799
00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:46.480
always thinking what what?
800
00:41:46.480 --> 00:41:52.039
What? What? What? What makes that philosophy any different in nihilism.
801
00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:56.320
Nihilism would be what that everything is pointless? M Yeah,
802
00:41:56.599 --> 00:41:59.360
I'm not an expert nailist, but I will I will
803
00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:02.360
say that it seems to me from what you just say,
804
00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:05.800
that it's just a belief that everything is pointless.
805
00:42:06.440 --> 00:42:07.559
But maybe it's not.
806
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:10.760
If you believe it's pointless and you don't take it seriously.
807
00:42:12.280 --> 00:42:13.320
But I don't think you.
808
00:42:13.320 --> 00:42:15.599
Don't let it go. When you let it go, you
809
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:17.840
don't let the story run right.
810
00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:21.639
Yeah, but you need a fabricated belief because you need
811
00:42:21.639 --> 00:42:22.840
to assume that it's pointless.
812
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:25.639
But you're not sure that it's pointless. Maybe it's not pointless.
813
00:42:26.519 --> 00:42:29.000
If it's just assume that you don't really exist.
814
00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:32.639
Yeah, but it's an assumption, but maybe you do exist.
815
00:42:33.559 --> 00:42:36.480
You're not sure, But I don't know if I exist.
816
00:42:36.079 --> 00:42:38.119
I know, but it's not the same as being sure
817
00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:40.079
that something is wrong. It's not the same as not knowing.
818
00:42:43.039 --> 00:42:43.679
I don't know.
819
00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:47.280
I would say maybe it's pointless, maybe it's not points,
820
00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:49.960
And we will also have to define what what pointless means,
821
00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:51.719
because what is the point?
822
00:42:51.880 --> 00:42:52.039
You know.
823
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:55.840
It's like pointless means absence. Sorry, pointless would mean absence
824
00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:58.360
of having a point. But what would be the point?
825
00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:00.960
Well, you live for.
826
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:05.559
That's a good question. So I will say.
827
00:43:05.639 --> 00:43:08.800
I will say that the way I live is more
828
00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:12.519
that in the present moment, and it's not the BS
829
00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:15.519
like living the present. Yeah, It's like in the present moment,
830
00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:18.639
I do what feels right to me, so I don't
831
00:43:18.639 --> 00:43:20.800
focus on a specific outcome, you see. So it's like
832
00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:25.599
as I have, as choices arise, as of options arise
833
00:43:25.639 --> 00:43:28.599
in front of me, I choose what feels right to me.
834
00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:31.440
So there is not a goal. You know.
835
00:43:32.280 --> 00:43:34.800
The metaphor I use for that, and it's not I
836
00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:36.599
didn't invent it. I took it from some other book
837
00:43:36.639 --> 00:43:40.000
which I think was really nice is the metaphor of
838
00:43:40.119 --> 00:43:44.920
the gardener versus the farmer. So the farmer always thinks
839
00:43:44.920 --> 00:43:48.599
in terms of outcome. So is taking care of his
840
00:43:48.840 --> 00:43:51.800
land because you want to harvest. At some point there
841
00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:54.480
is a deadline where it will harvest. Whereas the gardener
842
00:43:54.920 --> 00:43:57.280
every day he just tend to his garden. It cuts
843
00:43:57.320 --> 00:43:59.519
some flour here, but there is no outcome. There is
844
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:02.519
no goal, you see. So I will say that effectively
845
00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:05.400
the way I feel, it's like this. It's more like
846
00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:09.960
a garden. It's the shift from farmer to gardener. So
847
00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:11.719
I don't have a specific outcome.
848
00:44:11.800 --> 00:44:12.119
I don't.
849
00:44:12.159 --> 00:44:14.559
I don't have an agenda, So I don't do things
850
00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:17.199
with a goal or an agenda. I just but but
851
00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:19.639
I don't believe everything is pointless either. I'm not saying
852
00:44:19.639 --> 00:44:23.039
it is point full if that world exists, but I
853
00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:24.840
just don't know. Maybe there is a point, maybe not,
854
00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:27.920
But at the moment, I don't know. So as choices
855
00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:31.400
come to me, I just choose the choice that feels
856
00:44:31.440 --> 00:44:34.360
right to me. But without an agenda, without a goal,
857
00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:41.719
sounds good. It's nice, actly I say. I mean, I'm
858
00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:44.159
not saying it's better or worse, but it feels nicer.
859
00:44:44.199 --> 00:44:47.320
It feels less heavy, you know. It's like you don't
860
00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:48.800
feel like, oh my god, I have to do this.
861
00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:50.440
I have to do that I have to reach this goal.
862
00:44:50.559 --> 00:44:53.440
Is nobody has to do anything?
863
00:44:55.440 --> 00:45:00.639
Probably not, Yes, you know what I mean.
864
00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:03.199
We can all do exactly what we want.
865
00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:05.719
Well, there will still be consequence. I mean, if you
866
00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:07.519
jump out of the window, you will break your leg.
867
00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:10.559
But most people don't want to jump out of window.
868
00:45:10.679 --> 00:45:14.920
Most people want simple things like love and security and friendship.
869
00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:18.760
Yeah, I mean it's but maybe it's not always easy.
870
00:45:18.800 --> 00:45:21.320
I guess it depends what is your situation. Maybe if
871
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:24.639
you're very unlucky. You know, you could be I don't know,
872
00:45:24.800 --> 00:45:26.920
very poor and you starve and you're on the street
873
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:28.719
and nobody wants to be with you. I mean, of
874
00:45:28.719 --> 00:45:30.840
course you will have to be very unlucky. But I
875
00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:33.159
guess there are case where, you know, anything could happen.
876
00:45:33.159 --> 00:45:36.199
You could have a very serious accident and be like
877
00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:37.920
I don't know, in a coma or you know some
878
00:45:38.119 --> 00:45:39.920
I mean, then you would probably not be aware, but
879
00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:42.440
you underside. What I mean is like I wouldn't assume that.
880
00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:45.519
I wouldn't say we can get whatever we want. I
881
00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:49.159
think not really, but maybe we can accept what we have.
882
00:45:49.239 --> 00:45:51.480
But that doesn't mean also not doing anything. It just
883
00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:54.559
it's difficult to explain, because some people could say that
884
00:45:54.599 --> 00:45:55.800
it becomes a from a fatalism.
885
00:45:55.880 --> 00:45:56.000
You know.
886
00:45:56.039 --> 00:45:58.079
Then you say, then I just do nothing, but it's
887
00:45:58.119 --> 00:46:01.119
not true. Besides that doing nothing is a choice in itself.
888
00:46:01.159 --> 00:46:05.559
So it's more that as something comes to you, rather
889
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:08.559
than chasing stuff, it's like choices come to you and
890
00:46:08.599 --> 00:46:11.519
you kind of pick the choice that feels right, but
891
00:46:11.639 --> 00:46:13.599
without an agenda. So it's not that you're trying to
892
00:46:13.719 --> 00:46:16.679
force thing things to go in a certain way, you see.
893
00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:19.360
It's more like whatever comes to you, you.
894
00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:24.559
Choose what feels right, what your sense is right, you know,
895
00:46:24.639 --> 00:46:26.519
this sense of what's writing to do.
896
00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:28.119
Like I don't know how to explain it, but.
897
00:46:28.559 --> 00:46:30.960
Sometimes maybe you choose the difficult choice, you know, like
898
00:46:31.679 --> 00:46:33.639
someone asks for help and you really don't want to
899
00:46:33.639 --> 00:46:35.039
do it, but you feel, yeah, it's the right.
900
00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:37.440
Thing to do, and you do it. It's I think
901
00:46:37.480 --> 00:46:38.440
we have this kind of sense.
902
00:46:38.440 --> 00:46:40.679
I don't know where it comes from, but the sense
903
00:46:40.679 --> 00:46:43.519
of what's right, you know, not right in a moral sense,
904
00:46:44.199 --> 00:46:46.599
what we feel is right in that specific point in time.
905
00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:50.159
And I think it's a personally it is for me,
906
00:46:50.199 --> 00:46:54.199
it seems a better way to make decisions than have
907
00:46:54.280 --> 00:46:56.639
an agent than make complex plans, et cetera.
908
00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:02.760
Yeah, stay in the moment.
909
00:47:03.599 --> 00:47:07.000
So it's not See, it's not that it's because usually
910
00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:09.079
stay in the moment, it seems like a command, like
911
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:11.400
force yourself to stay in But this is not the
912
00:47:11.400 --> 00:47:11.840
case at all.
913
00:47:11.880 --> 00:47:14.159
You can't force yourself to stay in the moment. It
914
00:47:14.320 --> 00:47:17.920
just has to happen. But I think as soon as
915
00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:23.679
you start to use force, you distract yourself with that
916
00:47:23.840 --> 00:47:27.119
you're doing something. Force is an effort. Being in the
917
00:47:27.199 --> 00:47:33.519
moment takes no effort. I mean, that's whole the premises anyway.
918
00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:35.480
Yeah, what I say about that in the book is
919
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:39.039
that effort is pretending. So usually when you do effort,
920
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:41.800
it becomes pretending. So it's like, let's say you're stressed
921
00:47:42.199 --> 00:47:44.920
and you put effort to be relaxed, but you're not relaxed.
922
00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:47.800
You're just pretending to be relaxed. It's not the same.
923
00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:50.039
So if you put effort to be in the moment,
924
00:47:50.079 --> 00:47:52.360
you're just pretending to be in the moment. But it's
925
00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:57.400
not it's just pretending, you see me.
926
00:47:59.199 --> 00:48:03.440
Well, I mean, so I want to thank you for
927
00:48:03.559 --> 00:48:08.119
coming on. It's been a really interesting interview. And before
928
00:48:08.119 --> 00:48:11.239
we wrap it up, where is the best place for
929
00:48:11.320 --> 00:48:12.440
our listeners to find you.
930
00:48:13.400 --> 00:48:17.360
So basically it's the website is called practical Enlightenment dot com.
931
00:48:17.480 --> 00:48:20.039
It's a free newsletter on substact They can just sign
932
00:48:20.119 --> 00:48:22.360
up and they will receive the newsletter, or they can
933
00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:25.000
of course read all the past articles and those are
934
00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:27.519
basically the chapters of the book that I will publish
935
00:48:27.559 --> 00:48:30.079
when it's ready, but in the meantime, already publishing.
936
00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:31.840
I'm already publishing. It's for free on subsects.
937
00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:35.880
So practical Enlightenment dot com a single word, no dat's
938
00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:36.800
no space is nothing.
939
00:48:37.079 --> 00:48:39.920
Great. Well, thank you for taking the time to be on.
940
00:48:40.239 --> 00:48:42.920
I'll post a link to your website in the notes
941
00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:44.159
of this episode.
942
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:45.599
Thank you.
943
00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:48.880
Just hang on from one moment, well, wrap it up.
944
00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:57.480
Everything is now Unity and Imagination is now Manifestation. Welcome
945
00:48:57.519 --> 00:49:04.440
to Unity manifest Podcast. Here's your host, Gary Cacciolillo. Enjoy
946
00:49:04.519 --> 00:49:05.400
the experience.