WEBVTT
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The XRP community and the XRP platform was headed this
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way from the very start. You know, a blockchain that
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was built for financial use cases. And it's here. Like
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that narrative is playing out in real time. And here
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on the NASDAQ, what a moment.
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Hey folks, welcome into the Thinking Crypto Podcast. I'm your host,
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Tony Edward, and we're recording at Station 3 in New
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York's Financial District. And joining me is Ashish Birla, who
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is the CEO of Evernorth, which is the largest publicly
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traded XRP treasury company. Ashish, great to have you.
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Tony, yeah, it's a pleasure being on Thinking Pod. I
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don't even know how many times I've been on here,
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but it's always a pleasure. You've been one of the earliest...
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supporters of the community. So thank you for having me on.
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It's a pleasure. Yeah.
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And Ashish, we've done a handful of virtual interviews over
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the years. So it's awesome to be doing this in
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person with you.
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I know. I think we've only met a few times.
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But like, hey, I'm glad to be here in New
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York City, you know, fresh off our bell ringing ceremony
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on the NASDAQ. What an exciting moment.
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So big week for Evernorth. You had the ringing of
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the closing bell to NASDAQ, also went live on the NASDAQ.
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Exciting. Yeah, I mean, we've been working towards this for
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a long time. This feels like a milestone, not only
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for Evernorth, but wow, we have multiple publicly traded companies
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that are in the blockchain space on NASDAQ now. I
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think that's a pivotal moment. Who knew, Tony, you've been
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in this industry for a long time. We thought, you know,
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this could be, you know, coming years away, but it's finally,
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finally here and I couldn't be more excited.
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Yeah, I have to pinch myself because we're seeing the
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convergence of TradFi and crypto and it's happening at a
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rapid pace.
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Yeah. And, you know, I remember, you know, early on
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and you remember those pods that we used to do.
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But early on, you know, the XRP community and the
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XRP platform was headed this way from the very start.
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You know, a blockchain that was built. for financial use cases.
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And it's here. Like that narrative is playing out in
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real time. And here on the NASDAQ, what a moment.
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But also as you go through conferences around the world,
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the narrative is around financial use cases on the blockchain.
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So that moment is here. It's exciting. It's taken a
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while to get here, Tony. I've been in the industry
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now 13 years. You've been in the industry, you know,
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supporting us for a long time. But wow, I think
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this feels like a great moment.
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It feels like the institutions, they all have the memo now,
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the game plan. We've crossed the chasm from, is this real?
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Is it a fad? But to, we need to have
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a blockchain digital asset strategy.
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Yeah, and it's funny, Tony. So I came to New
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York City, you know, maybe 10 years ago. And I
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met with every big institution out there. And I, you know,
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I was telling them about blockchain and this technology. And
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they were like, hold on, we're not ready yet. Let's
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do a proof of concept. Let's dabble. But what is
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this thing? So they were just getting familiar. Now, this summer,
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I came back out here and met with a lot
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of those same financial institutions, and they are ready to go.
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They are moving forward. They have teams that are already built.
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It's pretty exciting. I mean, I just saw one example
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of that with Wells Fargo announcing a potential partnership for
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liquidity in the Kraken ecosystem. Now, that is something I
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never thought I would see 10 years ago. And not
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only are they building teams, but they are doing. From
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BlackRock to Morgan Stanley getting excited about real world assets
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to Wells Fargo thinking about a partnership around liquidity. I
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think the moment is here, Tony.
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Yeah, they're all here. They were your leaders and then
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your laggards. But it feels like everybody's like, wait a minute,
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we need to have a digital asset strategy. You mentioned
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Morgan Stanley, they just recently announced they're launching a digital
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asset lab. They're looking into tokenization. And they were kind
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of late amongst the Wall Street crowd, but better late
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than never.
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And who thought Wells Fargo would be dipping their toe
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into liquidity, right? So, you know, 10 years ago, you know,
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if you asked me who would be the leaders, I'm
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not sure I would have said that group. But here
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we are. They're leading the front. You know, they're leading
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us in terms of institutional adoption. You got BlackRock that
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has been, you know, very forward thinking in this space
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as well. Franklin Templeton. So, hey, listen, I think it's smart.
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I think it's time to lean in. And, you know,
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I think there are going to be winners and losers.
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But the folks that get an early start, I think,
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have a, you know, a leg up here. Absolutely.
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So for the audience members who are new to all
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this and have not heard of Evernorth, tell us a
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bit about it and the mission.
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Yeah, so I'm Ashish Birla. I was at Ripple for
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over a decade, both as an operator from the earliest
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days to a board member. Last year, I wanted to
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do something that helped bridge traditional finance with blockchain. I
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came up with a concept around Evernorth. Evernorth is the
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largest XRP publicly traded digital asset treasury. We hold over
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473 million XRP shares. We're live on the NASDAQ under
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the ticker symbol XRPN. We're not a passive digital asset treasury. So, Tony,
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if you remember, I'm a product guy. I was a
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product guy for a long time at Ripple. The plan
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is to put this XRP to work and generate yield opportunities.
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We'll look at traditional methods of doing that. But also
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what I am really excited about is putting this to
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work on-chain. And again, we're not going to run. We're
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not going to sprint. We're going to be methodical. We're
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going to, you know, look at taking opportunities as they
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arise and help develop this market, both on chain and
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in the traditional sense.
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Pardon the interruption. Hi, I'm Tony. I'm the host of
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the Thinking Crypto podcast. I wanted to ask you if
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you can please support the podcast by hitting the like button,
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subscribing if you haven't as yet. You can leave a
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comment below as well. And if you're listening on a
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podcast platform such as Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get
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your podcasts, please be sure to follow and hit the
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five-star rating. I'll let you get back to the content.
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Thank you so much. So a lot of folks are
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going to ask, well, why not Bitcoin? Why not Ethereum?
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Because we've seen the likes of MicroStrategy, Bitmine.
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Why XRP? That's a great question. So I think with Bitcoin,
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they got the party started in terms of digital asset
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treasuries with MSTR strategy. I think they're doing the right
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thing for what Bitcoin's capabilities are. With Bitcoin, you can move,
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you can hold, but you can't really do much on chain.
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So that's the right strategy. So a passive vehicle like strategy,
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they do a lot of traditional financial engineering around that.
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That works for them. The beauty of XRP is that
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there's a lot of potential use cases you can build
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on top of the platform. You know, we have lending,
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DeFi coming to the XRP ecosystem. I mean, what timing?
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So the plan is to put that to work. And, hey, look,
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the tailwind. around real world assets being digitized on blockchain
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coincide with Evernote's launch and potentially where we want to
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take it as well. So we got a unique proposition
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here with XRP being built specifically for financial use cases.
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We're going to take advantage of that, both in our
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yield strategy, but then also we're excited for DeFi coming
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to XRP as well.
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Yeah, it's really great to hear that you're not just
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holding the asset, but you're putting it to work. You're
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helping to grow the ecosystem and creating new opportunities with
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yield and DeFi and much more. So, Talk to us
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a bit about your strategy of the amount of XRP
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you're holding. Is it going to be like 50% put
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to work or all of it put to work? How
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does that work?
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Well, I think the answer to that, Tony, is that
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we're going to take it slow and build methodically. We
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have to work on making sure there's markets available to
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put that XRP to work with the right kind of
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risk-adjusted yield. So, hey, listen, there was a lot of wild,
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wild west in crypto. I hope we're beyond that now.
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If the returns look like crazy and something you've never
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seen before, you should think twice. We have an approach
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and we have a great team out there from our
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chief risk officer to our chief investment officer that we
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just pulled over from Coinbase Ugo. We have the right team.
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to help develop this market in a methodical way, and
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ones that looks at the appropriate risk as we develop
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our yield strategy.
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You mentioned your new CIO, Hugo. Why is he the
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right man for the job?
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Well, we looked across a lot of folks, and Tony,
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I mean... I'll say someone that has both traditional experience,
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so really knows how a bank thinks about risk, how
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financial institutions think about risk, and crypto experience is like
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a needle in a haystack. And we found our person
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with Ugo, HSB experience. He's worked with companies like Centora
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that are in the XRP ecosystem. He worked at Coinbase
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and their asset management firm. When I met Ugo, I
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knew I had my, you know, my guy for the role. And,
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you know, it's really hard to find someone with that
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blend of experience. And I'm happy to have him on
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board because what we're doing is both, you know, traditional,
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but then also leveraging crypto. And you need someone that
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understands both because where we want to head in the
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future is, is to try to do more and more
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of this on-chain. Right. And you need the right kind
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of expertise to execute that in a safe and methodical way.
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You know, it's funny, you mentioned the experience that Hugo
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has both in digital assets and TradFi, and it seems
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that That's like a unicorn status, and a lot of
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folks are trying to poach that type of talent to
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come build out their digital asset strategy.
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That's exactly right. And as this gains momentum, that kind
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of skill set is only going to be in higher
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and higher demand. I do remember when, you know, the
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funny story, if you remember this, Tony, back when Ethereum
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was only a couple of years old, Visa had a
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job posting looking for someone with five years of Ethereum experience.
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And so like, hey, like, you know, I think you're
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going to see, you know, more of that coming into
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the future. Of course, it has to be relevant. But
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folks that can have this traditional Wall Street experience or
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institutional experience with crypto experience, that's you know, high demand
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into this new future.
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Yeah, absolutely. As these bridges are being built and the
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convergence is happening, it absolutely makes sense to have those,
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to get that type of talent so that you understand
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both worlds.
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Yeah, I mean, it's our growing up moment in the industry.
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And hey, I'm ready for it. You know, I'm ready
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for real world use cases. Let's move beyond the speculation.
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Let's partner with institutions that are innovative. That's different than
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the internet. Today, you need regulations, you need regulated industries,
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you need regulated institutions to come to the table. Wells Fargo,
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thinking about liquidity, that should be a very, very good
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sign for folks that have been in the industry for
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a long time because it speaks to the maturity of
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a big financial institution potentially posting liquidity on chain.
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And actually, there was news just this week as well,
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Standard Chartered adding support for Ripple's RLUSD, partnering with LMAX Group,
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I believe. It's amazing to see the banks participating in
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this way. And like I said, I got to pinch
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myself because it's years ago when I got in. I
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couldn't even imagine this.
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Totally. Yeah, you couldn't imagine it. And you know what?
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I'll credit the early days at Ripple for planting those seeds,
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Standard Chartered. was an investor in Ripple itself. And, you know,
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it was a 13-year overnight success story. So, you know, hey, listen,
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like that was a smart strategic bet of planting the
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seeds early on that I think will continue to, you know,
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earn dividends on that investment early on in terms of
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like them coming onto the ecosystem and supporting institutional growth.
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That's a big deal. Absolutely.
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You know, you mentioned your journey in building and talking
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to these institutions for years when they were, you know,
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kind of like skittish about it, right? So what does
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it mean for you to take Evernote public and to
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be listed on the NASDAQ and have the largest XRP
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treasury company?
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Well, I mean, I think it's, you know, I've been
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working in this industry for a long, long time and,
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you know, 13 years and... And this is a moment
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for sure. One thing that's interesting, Tony, is that the
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NASDAQ has so many tech companies on NASDAQ, but very
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few fintechs in the top 10. You can think of
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internet companies, media companies, they've all made it to the
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top 10, but very, very few fintech companies have made
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it to the top 10. And maybe we keep saying
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our success story is PayPal. that was created so many
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years ago, over 20 years ago, why I think there
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hasn't been a platform for fintech to truly emerge as
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a player in the top 10 with the Googles of
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the world. I think that, in my opinion, I think
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that is changing. And why? Because blockchain really levels the
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playing field here. You can potentially see the market move
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to the blockchain in terms of real world assets, equities,
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you know, equities are growing now 1% of, you know,
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stable coin supply. Sounds small, but that number is growing,
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you know, quickly. And in a lot of other fixed
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income products, if you look at, you know, the growth there,
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I think that's impressive. So you now have a platform
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that I think will enable more fintechs to emerge they
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don't have to build and put lipstick on a on
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the pig of the old financial system right they can
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they can they can grow on a new platform and
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innovate i think that's super exciting.
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Yeah it's it seems there's a big changing of the
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guard taking place a lot of companies for example ripple
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itself getting uh occ bank trust charters circle and others
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right um becoming neobanks right or fintech neobanks i don't
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know what the categorization is but It's fascinating. And they're
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offering more options to the consumer. So that benefits the consumer.
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And it's no longer these big banks, and I'm not
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trying to say they're bad, but controlling everything. But there's
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more democratization.
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That's a great way to put it. I mean, hey,
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at the end of the day, I think one of
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the great things about blockchain is this idea of access
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or democratization. Wall Street had its walls up for a long,
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long time. And I'm not saying that any of those
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firms won't exist, but we talked about some of the
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innovators that I think are going to bleed over to
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the other side. Just like New York Times reinvented itself
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in the age of media, you're going to see some
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of these large institutions reemerge as big players in this
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new industry. But then you're also going to see new
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players emerge as well. new players that are able to,
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you know, take advantage of this new platform. And again,
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I think you might see, in my opinion, different kinds
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of fintechs in the NASDAQ, you know, top 10 in
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this near future, because again, they have a platform now
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that enables them to like rebuild with the right kind
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of innovative infrastructure underneath, not sort of putting lipstick on
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the pig of the old, you know, the old infrastructure
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that was out there.
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And I wonder, Ashish, and we're seeing a bit of this,
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like Ripple itself, Coinbase have acquired traditional finance companies. Can
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the big traditional financial companies also look to acquire some
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of these crypto native firms? And you have, again, this convergence,
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this blending, and it creates new types of businesses and
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things like that.
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No, that's absolutely true. And, you know, that mimics a
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lot of like the, you know, the traditional internet. And
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we can just keep going with the New York Times.
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You know, New York Times like reinvented itself from a
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newspaper that was a dying business to a digital media platform.
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They've acquired, they've built, they've done a good job there.
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And I think you'll potentially see the same thing with,
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you know, with the traditional institutions as well. And, you know,
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our partner, one of our investors, SBI, one of the
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largest financial institutions in Japan, has already started doing that.
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I think they're leading the way in terms of adding
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traditional crypto companies, either through investment or acquisition to its portfolio. Sure.
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And I think to your point, Tony, you can see
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some of that potentially happening in the United States as well.
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And why? Well, I think that these institutions and also
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the folks, the traditional crypto companies that are getting these
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kinds of licenses, really understand this idea of bridging the
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real world or traditional world with blockchain. You need this
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regulated on and off ramps, whether it be fiat currencies
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in the form of stable coins or equities. Those on
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and off ramps, high quality regulated license on and off
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ramps are critical to the growth of the ecosystem. So
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I think that is a very good thing. I personally
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don't care if it comes from traditional blockchain companies or
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traditional finance companies. I think we need it for blockchains
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to succeed. Yeah, well said.
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So on the note of tokenization, we see the race
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is on to put assets on chain. Will Evernorth be
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doing anything with tokenization or is it still early to
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determine what you want to do with the ecosystem?
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Right now, our goal is how do we start building tokens?
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the products around supporting the 473 million XRP that are
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out there. I think we are going to have our
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hands full on that. But I think even putting that
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to work on-chain helps build on-chain liquidity for other assets
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as well. So as more assets move to XRP, as
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XRP gets put into the lending protocol, I think it
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opens up I think it could potentially open up other
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use cases as well. But right now we're focused on
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our task at hand. We have nearly the entire team
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focused on putting that to work with the right kinds
381
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of controls, which is super important.
382
00:22:33.809 --> 00:22:36.430
And then from a DeFi standpoint, are you using Flare
383
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or other DeFi networks to help get the yield in
384
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these things?
385
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Well, our focus right now is evaluating all those partners
386
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out there and really understanding the risks. You know, I
387
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like all the partners that are around the XRP ecosystem,
388
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but we haven't chosen any of those partners just yet.
389
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We are very interested in partnering firms that want to
390
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build natively on-chain. And so we're looking for whoever we
391
00:23:07.630 --> 00:23:09.910
need to do, you know, for partners that can come
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to the table with us for those kinds of use cases.
393
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And so that's what's exciting. I mean, hey, Tony, we
394
00:23:16.589 --> 00:23:19.730
were waiting for DeFi for so long to come to XRP.
395
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And I think that moment is right around the corner,
396
00:23:23.220 --> 00:23:26.380
which is exciting for all of us that have been
397
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around the ecosystem for so long. Yeah, very exciting.
398
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As an XRP holder, of course, looking to participate in
399
00:23:32.859 --> 00:23:36.250
wherever I can, get the yield, maximize my holdings as
400
00:23:36.309 --> 00:23:39.609
much as possible. So tell us about your XRP acquisition
401
00:23:39.670 --> 00:23:40.690
strategy over time.
402
00:23:41.140 --> 00:23:45.109
What does that look like? Yeah, so our core metric
403
00:23:46.109 --> 00:23:49.589
that we're looking at is to maximize XRP per share.
404
00:23:49.609 --> 00:23:53.750
We're going to look at opportunities across the ecosystem to
405
00:23:53.829 --> 00:24:00.609
help us achieve that. I can't really talk about forward-looking plans.
406
00:24:01.089 --> 00:24:06.490
There's a whole process around that. But we remain committed
407
00:24:06.569 --> 00:24:09.690
to maximizing XRP per share.
408
00:24:10.619 --> 00:24:14.059
Now, And this is probably a new concept to a
409
00:24:14.079 --> 00:24:17.220
lot of people, right? Getting involved in digital asset strategies
410
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:21.549
and companies that are publicly listed holding digital assets. So
411
00:24:22.130 --> 00:24:24.430
it's safe to assume, and this is probably a dumb question,
412
00:24:24.470 --> 00:24:26.809
but just to make sure I cover all bases, I
413
00:24:26.829 --> 00:24:30.970
can access through my XRPN, through my brokerage accounts, potentially
414
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even ETFs over time.
415
00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:36.440
Yeah, so that was like the interesting thing about digital
416
00:24:36.500 --> 00:24:40.180
asset treasuries is that today, if you wanted to add
417
00:24:40.670 --> 00:24:45.339
digital asset to your portfolio, you know, you could, you'd
418
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:47.680
have to go to an exchange, you'd have to like,
419
00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:51.880
you know, create an account, get KYC'd, you know, then
420
00:24:51.900 --> 00:24:53.640
you got to, you know, acquire it, and then you
421
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got to hold it. And it's just like this one
422
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off thing. And you know, if your if your life
423
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is like mine, you just like, don't want one additional,
424
00:25:01.619 --> 00:25:03.869
you know, piece to deal with. And then if you
425
00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:05.809
want to put that to work, there's a whole bunch
426
00:25:05.849 --> 00:25:08.579
of other things you got to do as well. That's
427
00:25:08.599 --> 00:25:11.660
what makes digital asset treasuries really interesting, in my opinion,
428
00:25:11.740 --> 00:25:14.240
is that you can just go to your brokerage account
429
00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:17.140
and you can type in the ticker symbol and that
430
00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:20.289
can be XRPN and that could be a way to
431
00:25:20.619 --> 00:25:27.549
get exposure to digital assets, in this case, XRP. So, hey,
432
00:25:27.569 --> 00:25:32.329
maybe for the first couple of million folks, adding all
433
00:25:32.369 --> 00:25:34.750
that friction was the right call. I do think that
434
00:25:34.769 --> 00:25:39.220
there's this future where you could potentially open up the
435
00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:41.440
market to more people by making it easy and taking
436
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down the friction.
437
00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:44.980
Absolutely. And I always give the example of my mom
438
00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:47.789
and dad. I can't tell them to go to Coinbase
439
00:25:47.980 --> 00:25:50.950
and buy XRP Bitcoin. Like, what?
440
00:25:51.069 --> 00:25:53.509
Or you gave it to someone early on and then
441
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they lost their life. And so we've all been through
442
00:25:58.390 --> 00:26:02.880
those scenarios. And if we learned anything, is that whoever
443
00:26:02.910 --> 00:26:06.890
can take the friction down in different products... uh, you know,
444
00:26:06.950 --> 00:26:10.609
offers a more delightful experience. And so, uh, you know,
445
00:26:10.650 --> 00:26:11.700
that is definitely part of it.
446
00:26:12.109 --> 00:26:14.990
And then obviously the added benefit is what you guys
447
00:26:15.009 --> 00:26:19.569
are doing of growing the ecosystem, DeFi and all those things. So, uh,
448
00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:21.839
it's not just the XRP sitting there, you're putting it
449
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to work. So that's the, a real great added benefit.
450
00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:28.039
Yeah. I mean, like, uh, that's what it's exciting to me.
451
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I've been being in the ecosystem for so long is
452
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that you got this, innovative technology, uh, you know, XRP
453
00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:40.940
and the platform around it that is adding, you know,
454
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features like, you know, lending and vaults and so forth. Well,
455
00:26:47.109 --> 00:26:51.289
putting that to use, I think is, you know, is
456
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something that we want to look at and potentially explore
457
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as we build out our yield strategies into the future.
458
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I don't know if you can disclose this, but I
459
00:27:00.650 --> 00:27:02.849
figured I'd ask because security is always top of mind
460
00:27:02.890 --> 00:27:05.099
for a lot of folks in crypto. Um, who do
461
00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:07.279
you use as custodian or do you have multiple custodians?
462
00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:10.240
Yeah. I mean, it's work. One of the great things
463
00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:12.140
about being a regulated company is like a lot of
464
00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:15.420
this is, uh, already in the disclosures, but yeah, we,
465
00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:18.440
we are, you know, spread across, um, you know, a
466
00:27:18.509 --> 00:27:21.980
number of different custodians. Uh, you know, that is the
467
00:27:22.009 --> 00:27:24.789
good thing, Tony, about building a business in 2026 is
468
00:27:24.829 --> 00:27:28.369
that you have a lot of different custodians, uh, that
469
00:27:28.390 --> 00:27:31.630
are available. This wasn't like the early days. Or you
470
00:27:31.670 --> 00:27:34.809
had to go in a back room somewhere and secure it.
471
00:27:34.849 --> 00:27:37.769
This is, you know, this is a far more mature
472
00:27:37.809 --> 00:27:41.059
market in terms of that kind of security, which, you know,
473
00:27:41.470 --> 00:27:43.140
I'm happy about. Yeah.
474
00:27:43.380 --> 00:27:45.619
You know, you mentioned earlier, we're growing up, the industry's
475
00:27:45.700 --> 00:27:49.059
maturing and things are just way different than they were
476
00:27:49.380 --> 00:27:52.160
even going back to 2022 with FTX and all these things.
477
00:27:52.660 --> 00:27:54.670
It feels like we've turned a corner and that's a
478
00:27:54.930 --> 00:27:55.569
thing of the past.
479
00:27:56.500 --> 00:27:59.220
Yeah, I mean, I certainly hope so. And, you know,
480
00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:02.880
I just, I was at Consensus, you know, this past,
481
00:28:03.059 --> 00:28:06.960
was it spring in Miami? And, you know, if you've
482
00:28:06.980 --> 00:28:09.480
been to that conference over the years, it's, you know,
483
00:28:09.500 --> 00:28:13.329
one year it was like the NFT conference. And this year,
484
00:28:13.349 --> 00:28:16.440
you saw a lot of folks walking around with blazers.
485
00:28:16.740 --> 00:28:19.450
You saw a lot of folks walking around with briefcases.
486
00:28:20.029 --> 00:28:22.410
And you still had the wackiness. Like, I don't ever
487
00:28:22.450 --> 00:28:24.740
want all of that to go away. It's, you know,
488
00:28:24.779 --> 00:28:28.140
you need the innovators as well. And, but you did
489
00:28:28.180 --> 00:28:32.460
see some sort of like maturity there as well. You know,
490
00:28:32.509 --> 00:28:35.289
I even went, you know, to dinner, a crypto dinner,
491
00:28:35.390 --> 00:28:38.309
and it was hosted by one of the largest financial
492
00:28:38.329 --> 00:28:42.210
accounting firms out there. So this is, this is very
493
00:28:42.289 --> 00:28:44.470
different than the 2013 and 14, you know, Bitcoin Amsterdam's,
494
00:28:44.490 --> 00:28:51.579
you know, And again, there was nothing wrong with that.
495
00:28:51.619 --> 00:28:54.759
You had to crawl before you could walk before, you know,
496
00:28:54.940 --> 00:28:56.869
into this future where we're going to be running here.
497
00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:01.430
But it did feel like it was a combination of
498
00:29:02.750 --> 00:29:07.170
the innovators with their traditional innovative financial institutions coming together
499
00:29:07.210 --> 00:29:10.150
in Miami. So let's see where the next big one,
500
00:29:10.650 --> 00:29:13.849
you know, comes out. But I expect that trend to
501
00:29:13.950 --> 00:29:16.009
only continue. And by the way, Tony, like there are
502
00:29:16.069 --> 00:29:22.769
now conferences specifically around real world assets and tokenization, you know,
503
00:29:23.029 --> 00:29:26.650
on chain, bringing Wall Street and the financial institutions together
504
00:29:26.710 --> 00:29:30.869
with crypto companies completely, you know, combining that they're complete
505
00:29:31.130 --> 00:29:36.440
financial conferences, which is different than I think what you saw, before,
506
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:39.640
which for me, bring it on. How exciting.
507
00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:43.259
Yeah, that must be very nice. We talked about it
508
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:45.380
earlier for you because you've been talking to these folks
509
00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:48.460
for years and now they're here joining the party.
510
00:29:48.539 --> 00:29:54.650
I do remember early on, people would be like, XRP,
511
00:29:54.670 --> 00:29:58.799
that's the bank chain. Boring. Boring. And I'm like, welcome. Well,
512
00:29:58.900 --> 00:30:01.480
I welcome it now. I mean, it's like, hey, listen,
513
00:30:02.059 --> 00:30:03.819
you might as well own it. But if that means
514
00:30:03.900 --> 00:30:07.819
that this is the chain for financial use cases, this
515
00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:11.069
is the chain that is going to bring traditional, you know,
516
00:30:11.109 --> 00:30:16.230
folks and new folks to the table to reinvent the
517
00:30:16.289 --> 00:30:21.069
financial ecosystem. That's a good place to be, in my opinion. Absolutely.
518
00:30:21.490 --> 00:30:24.450
And on that note, you know, everybody's on the same
519
00:30:24.490 --> 00:30:28.269
page to move markets 24-7, 365. allow them to, the
520
00:30:28.430 --> 00:30:30.970
assets to go global, where you could be in a
521
00:30:31.029 --> 00:30:33.970
country in Africa and you have a smartphone, you could
522
00:30:33.990 --> 00:30:37.509
be able to maybe access tokenized Tesla or Apple, which
523
00:30:37.670 --> 00:30:38.359
is game changing.
524
00:30:39.380 --> 00:30:42.059
It's absolutely game changing. I mean, the irony of being
525
00:30:42.099 --> 00:30:45.079
listed on the amazing NASDAQ, and they've been great, but
526
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:49.960
the irony of closing Bell, being a blockchain company and
527
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:52.519
talking about the closing Bell at 4 p.m., I mean,
528
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:56.880
financial markets are 24 by 7. Yeah. To your point,
529
00:30:57.140 --> 00:31:01.440
and listen, this could be a great market where, hey,
530
00:31:01.529 --> 00:31:06.170
you mentioned someone in Africa or someone around the world
531
00:31:07.529 --> 00:31:11.930
can post and buy commodities. If they're a farmer, they
532
00:31:11.950 --> 00:31:17.619
can hedge by buying and selling commodities ahead of their crop.
533
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:19.960
So if they have one bad season because of the
534
00:31:20.019 --> 00:31:24.130
weather or drought, they're not completely ruined. So this access
535
00:31:24.190 --> 00:31:28.329
to 24 by seven financial markets, yeah, like the Tesla
536
00:31:28.349 --> 00:31:30.809
stock is a good example, but I think it opens
537
00:31:30.930 --> 00:31:36.089
up a world of access for folks to trade different
538
00:31:36.130 --> 00:31:40.230
kinds of commodities and markets, potentially selling your crop ahead
539
00:31:40.269 --> 00:31:43.599
of the season. I think it's gonna be a game
540
00:31:43.619 --> 00:31:47.380
changer eventually for a whole bunch of people that were
541
00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:54.009
otherwise cut out of the financial ecosystem and financial technology. hey,
542
00:31:54.049 --> 00:31:58.390
baby steps. But it starts with something that you said
543
00:31:58.450 --> 00:32:03.779
early on is that blockchains are, you know, about access, democratization,
544
00:32:04.579 --> 00:32:08.259
and just like the internet, you know, help folks get
545
00:32:08.420 --> 00:32:12.569
access to media across the world. I hope that blockchains
546
00:32:12.630 --> 00:32:17.029
continue down that road and do the same for financial
547
00:32:17.109 --> 00:32:17.910
access as well.
548
00:32:18.630 --> 00:32:22.299
Yeah, that's, I think about people in other countries. We
549
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:24.339
have a really good here in the United States, really good.
550
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:27.210
I have some family in South America and things like that.
551
00:32:27.509 --> 00:32:29.589
And yeah, they wish they could have the same access
552
00:32:29.650 --> 00:32:32.069
as we do. And this technology can open that up
553
00:32:32.109 --> 00:32:32.390
for them.
554
00:32:32.609 --> 00:32:37.750
I remember pitching some venture capitalists in Sand Hill Road
555
00:32:37.990 --> 00:32:42.430
in 2014 and said, hey, this is about financial access.
556
00:32:42.450 --> 00:32:47.059
This is about democratization of access. And the venture capital
557
00:32:47.460 --> 00:32:50.140
person was like, well, I don't see what the problem is.
558
00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:53.400
I got I got PayPal, I got credit cards. And
559
00:32:53.539 --> 00:32:56.000
I was like, yeah, that's because you're in Silicon Valley.
560
00:32:56.400 --> 00:32:59.420
But you go across the border south or you go
561
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:03.250
to any of the emerging markets, and that's not true.
562
00:33:05.730 --> 00:33:09.750
They've been left out of financial access. Even in the
563
00:33:09.789 --> 00:33:14.390
United States, I was a board observer at MoneyGram, and
564
00:33:15.730 --> 00:33:17.950
I was amazed at how many folks, even in the
565
00:33:17.990 --> 00:33:23.119
United States, don't have financial access. So, listen, I think
566
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:25.960
this is good. I think that we hope for a
567
00:33:26.119 --> 00:33:30.700
more digital, accessible world when it comes to financial ecosystems.
568
00:33:31.259 --> 00:33:34.259
But again, baby steps. I think we're in that. We're
569
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:37.279
probably out of the crawl phase. We're in the walk phase.
570
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:39.029
I'm excited to get to the run phase.
571
00:33:39.420 --> 00:33:42.369
Yeah. I know something that's interesting is even though, let's say,
572
00:33:42.390 --> 00:33:45.569
the Clarity Act didn't pass, it hasn't slowed anyone down.
573
00:33:46.230 --> 00:33:49.769
I was surprised. You mentioned Wells Fargo. We talked about
574
00:33:49.789 --> 00:33:53.289
Morgan Stanley. but the institutions are just moving full steam ahead.
575
00:33:53.650 --> 00:33:56.079
It could be because of the regulatory agencies like the SEC,
576
00:33:56.099 --> 00:33:59.660
CFTC are providing guidance. But it seems like, again, everybody's like,
577
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:01.680
who cares? We're just going to build.
578
00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:04.779
Well, I thought the day after the clarity passing, listen,
579
00:34:04.819 --> 00:34:07.289
no one was licking their chops. I think you saw
580
00:34:07.309 --> 00:34:10.510
the SEC and CFTC come out with statements right after
581
00:34:10.530 --> 00:34:17.610
that in terms of providing guidance. And the month following,
582
00:34:17.750 --> 00:34:21.679
you saw a rise in tokenized equities. So I thought
583
00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:25.190
that was a good sign. And listen, I mean, it
584
00:34:25.289 --> 00:34:31.349
is still so early on in this movement. But you
585
00:34:31.369 --> 00:34:35.860
can see the growth happening. You can see the realization
586
00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:45.059
that blockchains could provide a more accessible platform here. But again,
587
00:34:45.079 --> 00:34:49.260
we're in the walkway phase. But again, this is different.
588
00:34:49.380 --> 00:34:52.579
This feels very different than, you know, years prior. You've
589
00:34:52.599 --> 00:34:56.170
got the, you know, big financial institutions, you've got regulation,
590
00:34:56.210 --> 00:34:59.230
you've got the innovators, all sort of working in unison.
591
00:34:59.469 --> 00:35:00.070
Yes.
592
00:35:00.130 --> 00:35:01.050
Which I think is important.
593
00:35:02.210 --> 00:35:04.550
I can't wait for us to talk in 2030 and
594
00:35:04.590 --> 00:35:06.659
look back and say, you remember when we were in
595
00:35:06.679 --> 00:35:08.539
the walk phase and now we're in the run phase
596
00:35:08.599 --> 00:35:09.739
and it's, you know.
597
00:35:09.940 --> 00:35:13.460
So exciting. Hey, listen, it's been so fun, Tony, like,
598
00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:16.469
you know, Checking in with you every, you know, every
599
00:35:16.489 --> 00:35:21.099
so often and, you know, seeing your, you know, career
600
00:35:21.139 --> 00:35:25.219
take off as well, being early and seeing this rise
601
00:35:25.300 --> 00:35:27.860
and being a different kind of thinker as well. And so,
602
00:35:28.699 --> 00:35:31.289
you know, I do look forward to catching up in
603
00:35:31.309 --> 00:35:34.210
the future and seeing where we are. But I think
604
00:35:34.469 --> 00:35:36.750
I feel great about this moment. Absolutely.
605
00:35:37.929 --> 00:35:39.869
I know you're a publicly traded company now, but what
606
00:35:39.889 --> 00:35:41.010
can you share that's on your roadmap?
607
00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:47.679
Well, I think we're closed now. I think first what
608
00:35:47.719 --> 00:35:49.960
we want to do is start putting some of this
609
00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:55.630
XRP to work. Again, being very methodical about it and
610
00:35:55.710 --> 00:35:59.329
looking at the relevant risks and controls in place. But
611
00:35:59.349 --> 00:36:02.260
I think I'm looking forward to also working with the
612
00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:06.210
XRP team and giving product feedback as well. What are
613
00:36:06.230 --> 00:36:11.239
those kinds of new protocols and new features that financial
614
00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:16.340
institutions need to scale? So getting back into the product
615
00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:19.280
game is super exciting for me. But doing it in
616
00:36:19.340 --> 00:36:22.480
concert with all the other partners out there is exciting.
617
00:36:22.579 --> 00:36:25.840
So that's what we have planned. We got a lot
618
00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:27.739
of work ahead of us. But hey, I think that
619
00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:31.630
this is an exciting moment for the industry. And bell
620
00:36:31.670 --> 00:36:35.730
ringing on the NASDAQ was super exciting. But now it's
621
00:36:35.769 --> 00:36:38.510
time to get back to work. Yeah.
622
00:36:38.909 --> 00:36:43.409
Well, I'm excited. It's awesome to see XRP on the
623
00:36:43.429 --> 00:36:47.570
NASDAQ publicly traded. And I'm looking forward to our next conversation,
624
00:36:47.590 --> 00:36:49.409
which will probably be early 2027. And yeah, I'm sure
625
00:36:50.739 --> 00:36:53.179
you guys are going to be heads down building. But Ashish,
626
00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:55.199
thank you so much for taking the time. Always a pleasure.
627
00:36:55.300 --> 00:36:58.679
And thanks for having me here in your beautiful studio
628
00:36:58.719 --> 00:36:59.360
in New York City.
629
00:36:59.860 --> 00:37:02.360
Thank you so much for tuning in. Please hit the
630
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:04.860
like button. Subscribe if you haven't as yet. If you're
631
00:37:04.900 --> 00:37:07.880
listening on a podcast platform, such as Spotify or Apple,
632
00:37:08.139 --> 00:37:10.150
please follow and leave a five-star rating.
633
00:37:10.550 --> 00:37:11.230
Thank you so much.
1
00:00:00.070 --> 00:00:03.950
The XRP community and the XRP platform was headed this
2
00:00:04.049 --> 00:00:06.919
way from the very start. You know, a blockchain that
3
00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:11.320
was built for financial use cases. And it's here. Like
4
00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:15.279
that narrative is playing out in real time. And here
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on the NASDAQ, what a moment.
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slash go slash thinkingcrypto. Link will be in the description.
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Hey folks, welcome into the Thinking Crypto Podcast. I'm your host,
50
00:02:48.020 --> 00:02:50.939
Tony Edward, and we're recording at Station 3 in New
51
00:02:50.979 --> 00:02:54.000
York's Financial District. And joining me is Ashish Birla, who
52
00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:57.710
is the CEO of Evernorth, which is the largest publicly
53
00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:01.409
traded XRP treasury company. Ashish, great to have you.
54
00:03:01.909 --> 00:03:06.210
Tony, yeah, it's a pleasure being on Thinking Pod. I
55
00:03:06.229 --> 00:03:07.789
don't even know how many times I've been on here,
56
00:03:07.810 --> 00:03:10.409
but it's always a pleasure. You've been one of the earliest...
57
00:03:10.729 --> 00:03:13.830
supporters of the community. So thank you for having me on.
58
00:03:13.849 --> 00:03:14.960
It's a pleasure. Yeah.
59
00:03:14.969 --> 00:03:18.759
And Ashish, we've done a handful of virtual interviews over
60
00:03:18.780 --> 00:03:20.419
the years. So it's awesome to be doing this in
61
00:03:20.460 --> 00:03:21.060
person with you.
62
00:03:21.300 --> 00:03:23.139
I know. I think we've only met a few times.
63
00:03:23.939 --> 00:03:26.610
But like, hey, I'm glad to be here in New
64
00:03:26.650 --> 00:03:30.889
York City, you know, fresh off our bell ringing ceremony
65
00:03:31.189 --> 00:03:33.849
on the NASDAQ. What an exciting moment.
66
00:03:34.310 --> 00:03:37.610
So big week for Evernorth. You had the ringing of
67
00:03:37.689 --> 00:03:40.830
the closing bell to NASDAQ, also went live on the NASDAQ.
68
00:03:41.490 --> 00:03:45.569
Exciting. Yeah, I mean, we've been working towards this for
69
00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:49.319
a long time. This feels like a milestone, not only
70
00:03:49.400 --> 00:03:55.639
for Evernorth, but wow, we have multiple publicly traded companies
71
00:03:55.699 --> 00:03:58.979
that are in the blockchain space on NASDAQ now. I
72
00:03:59.020 --> 00:04:01.210
think that's a pivotal moment. Who knew, Tony, you've been
73
00:04:01.250 --> 00:04:04.620
in this industry for a long time. We thought, you know,
74
00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:07.740
this could be, you know, coming years away, but it's finally,
75
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finally here and I couldn't be more excited.
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Yeah, I have to pinch myself because we're seeing the
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convergence of TradFi and crypto and it's happening at a
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rapid pace.
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Yeah. And, you know, I remember, you know, early on
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and you remember those pods that we used to do.
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But early on, you know, the XRP community and the
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XRP platform was headed this way from the very start.
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You know, a blockchain that was built. for financial use cases.
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And it's here. Like that narrative is playing out in
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real time. And here on the NASDAQ, what a moment.
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But also as you go through conferences around the world,
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the narrative is around financial use cases on the blockchain.
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So that moment is here. It's exciting. It's taken a
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while to get here, Tony. I've been in the industry
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now 13 years. You've been in the industry, you know,
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supporting us for a long time. But wow, I think
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this feels like a great moment.
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It feels like the institutions, they all have the memo now,
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the game plan. We've crossed the chasm from, is this real?
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Is it a fad? But to, we need to have
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a blockchain digital asset strategy.
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Yeah, and it's funny, Tony. So I came to New
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York City, you know, maybe 10 years ago. And I
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met with every big institution out there. And I, you know,
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I was telling them about blockchain and this technology. And
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they were like, hold on, we're not ready yet. Let's
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do a proof of concept. Let's dabble. But what is
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this thing? So they were just getting familiar. Now, this summer,
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I came back out here and met with a lot
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of those same financial institutions, and they are ready to go.
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They are moving forward. They have teams that are already built.
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It's pretty exciting. I mean, I just saw one example
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of that with Wells Fargo announcing a potential partnership for
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liquidity in the Kraken ecosystem. Now, that is something I
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never thought I would see 10 years ago. And not
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only are they building teams, but they are doing. From
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BlackRock to Morgan Stanley getting excited about real world assets
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to Wells Fargo thinking about a partnership around liquidity. I
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think the moment is here, Tony.
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Yeah, they're all here. They were your leaders and then
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your laggards. But it feels like everybody's like, wait a minute,
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we need to have a digital asset strategy. You mentioned
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Morgan Stanley, they just recently announced they're launching a digital
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asset lab. They're looking into tokenization. And they were kind
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of late amongst the Wall Street crowd, but better late
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than never.
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And who thought Wells Fargo would be dipping their toe
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into liquidity, right? So, you know, 10 years ago, you know,
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if you asked me who would be the leaders, I'm
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not sure I would have said that group. But here
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we are. They're leading the front. You know, they're leading
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us in terms of institutional adoption. You got BlackRock that
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has been, you know, very forward thinking in this space
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as well. Franklin Templeton. So, hey, listen, I think it's smart.
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I think it's time to lean in. And, you know,
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I think there are going to be winners and losers.
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But the folks that get an early start, I think,
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have a, you know, a leg up here. Absolutely.
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So for the audience members who are new to all
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this and have not heard of Evernorth, tell us a
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bit about it and the mission.
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Yeah, so I'm Ashish Birla. I was at Ripple for
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over a decade, both as an operator from the earliest
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days to a board member. Last year, I wanted to
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do something that helped bridge traditional finance with blockchain. I
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came up with a concept around Evernorth. Evernorth is the
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largest XRP publicly traded digital asset treasury. We hold over
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473 million XRP shares. We're live on the NASDAQ under
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the ticker symbol XRPN. We're not a passive digital asset treasury. So, Tony,
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if you remember, I'm a product guy. I was a
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product guy for a long time at Ripple. The plan
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is to put this XRP to work and generate yield opportunities.
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We'll look at traditional methods of doing that. But also
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what I am really excited about is putting this to
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work on-chain. And again, we're not going to run. We're
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not going to sprint. We're going to be methodical. We're
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going to, you know, look at taking opportunities as they
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arise and help develop this market, both on chain and
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in the traditional sense.
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Pardon the interruption. Hi, I'm Tony. I'm the host of
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the Thinking Crypto podcast. I wanted to ask you if
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you can please support the podcast by hitting the like button,
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subscribing if you haven't as yet. You can leave a
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comment below as well. And if you're listening on a
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podcast platform such as Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get
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your podcasts, please be sure to follow and hit the
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five-star rating. I'll let you get back to the content.
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Thank you so much. So a lot of folks are
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going to ask, well, why not Bitcoin? Why not Ethereum?
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Because we've seen the likes of MicroStrategy, Bitmine.
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Why XRP? That's a great question. So I think with Bitcoin,
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they got the party started in terms of digital asset
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treasuries with MSTR strategy. I think they're doing the right
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thing for what Bitcoin's capabilities are. With Bitcoin, you can move,
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you can hold, but you can't really do much on chain.
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So that's the right strategy. So a passive vehicle like strategy,
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they do a lot of traditional financial engineering around that.
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That works for them. The beauty of XRP is that
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there's a lot of potential use cases you can build
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on top of the platform. You know, we have lending,
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DeFi coming to the XRP ecosystem. I mean, what timing?
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So the plan is to put that to work. And, hey, look,
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the tailwind. around real world assets being digitized on blockchain
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coincide with Evernote's launch and potentially where we want to
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take it as well. So we got a unique proposition
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here with XRP being built specifically for financial use cases.
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We're going to take advantage of that, both in our
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yield strategy, but then also we're excited for DeFi coming
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to XRP as well.
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Yeah, it's really great to hear that you're not just
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holding the asset, but you're putting it to work. You're
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helping to grow the ecosystem and creating new opportunities with
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yield and DeFi and much more. So, Talk to us
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a bit about your strategy of the amount of XRP
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you're holding. Is it going to be like 50% put
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to work or all of it put to work? How
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does that work?
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Well, I think the answer to that, Tony, is that
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we're going to take it slow and build methodically. We
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have to work on making sure there's markets available to
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put that XRP to work with the right kind of
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risk-adjusted yield. So, hey, listen, there was a lot of wild,
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wild west in crypto. I hope we're beyond that now.
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If the returns look like crazy and something you've never
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seen before, you should think twice. We have an approach
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and we have a great team out there from our
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chief risk officer to our chief investment officer that we
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just pulled over from Coinbase Ugo. We have the right team.
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to help develop this market in a methodical way, and
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ones that looks at the appropriate risk as we develop
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our yield strategy.
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You mentioned your new CIO, Hugo. Why is he the
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right man for the job?
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Well, we looked across a lot of folks, and Tony,
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I mean... I'll say someone that has both traditional experience,
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so really knows how a bank thinks about risk, how
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financial institutions think about risk, and crypto experience is like
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a needle in a haystack. And we found our person
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with Ugo, HSB experience. He's worked with companies like Centora
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that are in the XRP ecosystem. He worked at Coinbase
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and their asset management firm. When I met Ugo, I
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knew I had my, you know, my guy for the role. And,
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you know, it's really hard to find someone with that
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blend of experience. And I'm happy to have him on
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board because what we're doing is both, you know, traditional,
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but then also leveraging crypto. And you need someone that
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understands both because where we want to head in the
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future is, is to try to do more and more
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of this on-chain. Right. And you need the right kind
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of expertise to execute that in a safe and methodical way.
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You know, it's funny, you mentioned the experience that Hugo
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has both in digital assets and TradFi, and it seems
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that That's like a unicorn status, and a lot of
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folks are trying to poach that type of talent to
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come build out their digital asset strategy.
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That's exactly right. And as this gains momentum, that kind
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of skill set is only going to be in higher
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and higher demand. I do remember when, you know, the
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funny story, if you remember this, Tony, back when Ethereum
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was only a couple of years old, Visa had a
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job posting looking for someone with five years of Ethereum experience.
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And so like, hey, like, you know, I think you're
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going to see, you know, more of that coming into
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the future. Of course, it has to be relevant. But
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folks that can have this traditional Wall Street experience or
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institutional experience with crypto experience, that's you know, high demand
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into this new future.
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Yeah, absolutely. As these bridges are being built and the
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convergence is happening, it absolutely makes sense to have those,
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to get that type of talent so that you understand
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both worlds.
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Yeah, I mean, it's our growing up moment in the industry.
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And hey, I'm ready for it. You know, I'm ready
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for real world use cases. Let's move beyond the speculation.
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Let's partner with institutions that are innovative. That's different than
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the internet. Today, you need regulations, you need regulated industries,
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you need regulated institutions to come to the table. Wells Fargo,
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thinking about liquidity, that should be a very, very good
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sign for folks that have been in the industry for
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a long time because it speaks to the maturity of
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a big financial institution potentially posting liquidity on chain.
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And actually, there was news just this week as well,
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Standard Chartered adding support for Ripple's RLUSD, partnering with LMAX Group,
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I believe. It's amazing to see the banks participating in
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this way. And like I said, I got to pinch
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myself because it's years ago when I got in. I
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couldn't even imagine this.
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Totally. Yeah, you couldn't imagine it. And you know what?
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I'll credit the early days at Ripple for planting those seeds,
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Standard Chartered. was an investor in Ripple itself. And, you know,
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it was a 13-year overnight success story. So, you know, hey, listen,
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like that was a smart strategic bet of planting the
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seeds early on that I think will continue to, you know,
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earn dividends on that investment early on in terms of
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like them coming onto the ecosystem and supporting institutional growth.
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That's a big deal. Absolutely.
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You know, you mentioned your journey in building and talking
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to these institutions for years when they were, you know,
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kind of like skittish about it, right? So what does
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it mean for you to take Evernote public and to
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be listed on the NASDAQ and have the largest XRP
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treasury company?
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Well, I mean, I think it's, you know, I've been
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working in this industry for a long, long time and,
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you know, 13 years and... And this is a moment
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for sure. One thing that's interesting, Tony, is that the
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NASDAQ has so many tech companies on NASDAQ, but very
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few fintechs in the top 10. You can think of
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internet companies, media companies, they've all made it to the
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top 10, but very, very few fintech companies have made
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it to the top 10. And maybe we keep saying
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our success story is PayPal. that was created so many
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years ago, over 20 years ago, why I think there
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hasn't been a platform for fintech to truly emerge as
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a player in the top 10 with the Googles of
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the world. I think that, in my opinion, I think
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that is changing. And why? Because blockchain really levels the
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playing field here. You can potentially see the market move
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to the blockchain in terms of real world assets, equities,
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you know, equities are growing now 1% of, you know,
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stable coin supply. Sounds small, but that number is growing,
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you know, quickly. And in a lot of other fixed
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income products, if you look at, you know, the growth there,
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I think that's impressive. So you now have a platform
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that I think will enable more fintechs to emerge they
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don't have to build and put lipstick on a on
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the pig of the old financial system right they can
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they can they can grow on a new platform and
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innovate i think that's super exciting.
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Yeah it's it seems there's a big changing of the
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guard taking place a lot of companies for example ripple
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itself getting uh occ bank trust charters circle and others
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right um becoming neobanks right or fintech neobanks i don't
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know what the categorization is but It's fascinating. And they're
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offering more options to the consumer. So that benefits the consumer.
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And it's no longer these big banks, and I'm not
312
00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:30.930
trying to say they're bad, but controlling everything. But there's
313
00:18:30.950 --> 00:18:32.170
more democratization.
314
00:18:32.630 --> 00:18:34.210
That's a great way to put it. I mean, hey,
315
00:18:34.289 --> 00:18:36.029
at the end of the day, I think one of
316
00:18:36.049 --> 00:18:39.230
the great things about blockchain is this idea of access
317
00:18:39.309 --> 00:18:43.900
or democratization. Wall Street had its walls up for a long,
318
00:18:43.940 --> 00:18:46.240
long time. And I'm not saying that any of those
319
00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:48.569
firms won't exist, but we talked about some of the
320
00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:53.029
innovators that I think are going to bleed over to
321
00:18:53.069 --> 00:18:56.910
the other side. Just like New York Times reinvented itself
322
00:18:57.329 --> 00:19:00.269
in the age of media, you're going to see some
323
00:19:00.289 --> 00:19:05.210
of these large institutions reemerge as big players in this
324
00:19:05.299 --> 00:19:07.539
new industry. But then you're also going to see new
325
00:19:07.579 --> 00:19:11.210
players emerge as well. new players that are able to,
326
00:19:11.529 --> 00:19:14.789
you know, take advantage of this new platform. And again,
327
00:19:14.829 --> 00:19:17.650
I think you might see, in my opinion, different kinds
328
00:19:17.690 --> 00:19:22.230
of fintechs in the NASDAQ, you know, top 10 in
329
00:19:22.250 --> 00:19:25.519
this near future, because again, they have a platform now
330
00:19:25.819 --> 00:19:28.720
that enables them to like rebuild with the right kind
331
00:19:28.779 --> 00:19:32.420
of innovative infrastructure underneath, not sort of putting lipstick on
332
00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:35.200
the pig of the old, you know, the old infrastructure
333
00:19:35.220 --> 00:19:35.819
that was out there.
334
00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:39.099
And I wonder, Ashish, and we're seeing a bit of this,
335
00:19:39.380 --> 00:19:43.750
like Ripple itself, Coinbase have acquired traditional finance companies. Can
336
00:19:43.789 --> 00:19:47.069
the big traditional financial companies also look to acquire some
337
00:19:47.089 --> 00:19:50.599
of these crypto native firms? And you have, again, this convergence,
338
00:19:50.619 --> 00:19:53.980
this blending, and it creates new types of businesses and
339
00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:54.440
things like that.
340
00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:57.299
No, that's absolutely true. And, you know, that mimics a
341
00:19:57.339 --> 00:20:00.240
lot of like the, you know, the traditional internet. And
342
00:20:00.259 --> 00:20:01.859
we can just keep going with the New York Times.
343
00:20:01.900 --> 00:20:04.299
You know, New York Times like reinvented itself from a
344
00:20:04.460 --> 00:20:09.140
newspaper that was a dying business to a digital media platform.
345
00:20:09.180 --> 00:20:12.319
They've acquired, they've built, they've done a good job there.
346
00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:16.259
And I think you'll potentially see the same thing with,
347
00:20:16.619 --> 00:20:20.779
you know, with the traditional institutions as well. And, you know,
348
00:20:20.819 --> 00:20:25.049
our partner, one of our investors, SBI, one of the
349
00:20:25.109 --> 00:20:30.309
largest financial institutions in Japan, has already started doing that.
350
00:20:30.329 --> 00:20:33.519
I think they're leading the way in terms of adding
351
00:20:33.859 --> 00:20:38.750
traditional crypto companies, either through investment or acquisition to its portfolio. Sure.
352
00:20:38.930 --> 00:20:40.829
And I think to your point, Tony, you can see
353
00:20:41.569 --> 00:20:44.029
some of that potentially happening in the United States as well.
354
00:20:44.309 --> 00:20:49.369
And why? Well, I think that these institutions and also
355
00:20:49.390 --> 00:20:52.289
the folks, the traditional crypto companies that are getting these
356
00:20:52.349 --> 00:20:57.970
kinds of licenses, really understand this idea of bridging the
357
00:20:58.019 --> 00:21:02.660
real world or traditional world with blockchain. You need this
358
00:21:02.849 --> 00:21:06.309
regulated on and off ramps, whether it be fiat currencies
359
00:21:06.369 --> 00:21:11.069
in the form of stable coins or equities. Those on
360
00:21:11.109 --> 00:21:14.789
and off ramps, high quality regulated license on and off
361
00:21:14.849 --> 00:21:18.650
ramps are critical to the growth of the ecosystem. So
362
00:21:18.690 --> 00:21:21.119
I think that is a very good thing. I personally
363
00:21:21.130 --> 00:21:24.279
don't care if it comes from traditional blockchain companies or
364
00:21:24.420 --> 00:21:27.980
traditional finance companies. I think we need it for blockchains
365
00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:29.799
to succeed. Yeah, well said.
366
00:21:30.220 --> 00:21:32.789
So on the note of tokenization, we see the race
367
00:21:32.829 --> 00:21:35.690
is on to put assets on chain. Will Evernorth be
368
00:21:35.829 --> 00:21:38.210
doing anything with tokenization or is it still early to
369
00:21:38.690 --> 00:21:41.750
determine what you want to do with the ecosystem?
370
00:21:41.849 --> 00:21:46.859
Right now, our goal is how do we start building tokens?
371
00:21:48.029 --> 00:21:52.480
the products around supporting the 473 million XRP that are
372
00:21:52.539 --> 00:21:54.920
out there. I think we are going to have our
373
00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:58.559
hands full on that. But I think even putting that
374
00:21:58.599 --> 00:22:03.589
to work on-chain helps build on-chain liquidity for other assets
375
00:22:03.660 --> 00:22:10.529
as well. So as more assets move to XRP, as
376
00:22:11.250 --> 00:22:15.950
XRP gets put into the lending protocol, I think it
377
00:22:16.259 --> 00:22:18.460
opens up I think it could potentially open up other
378
00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:21.400
use cases as well. But right now we're focused on
379
00:22:21.420 --> 00:22:27.849
our task at hand. We have nearly the entire team
380
00:22:27.910 --> 00:22:31.289
focused on putting that to work with the right kinds
381
00:22:31.329 --> 00:22:33.109
of controls, which is super important.
382
00:22:33.809 --> 00:22:36.430
And then from a DeFi standpoint, are you using Flare
383
00:22:36.569 --> 00:22:39.609
or other DeFi networks to help get the yield in
384
00:22:39.630 --> 00:22:39.990
these things?
385
00:22:40.539 --> 00:22:44.299
Well, our focus right now is evaluating all those partners
386
00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:49.960
out there and really understanding the risks. You know, I
387
00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:54.240
like all the partners that are around the XRP ecosystem,
388
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:57.779
but we haven't chosen any of those partners just yet.
389
00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:02.009
We are very interested in partnering firms that want to
390
00:23:02.049 --> 00:23:07.589
build natively on-chain. And so we're looking for whoever we
391
00:23:07.630 --> 00:23:09.910
need to do, you know, for partners that can come
392
00:23:09.950 --> 00:23:13.009
to the table with us for those kinds of use cases.
393
00:23:13.089 --> 00:23:16.430
And so that's what's exciting. I mean, hey, Tony, we
394
00:23:16.589 --> 00:23:19.730
were waiting for DeFi for so long to come to XRP.
395
00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:22.660
And I think that moment is right around the corner,
396
00:23:23.220 --> 00:23:26.380
which is exciting for all of us that have been
397
00:23:26.460 --> 00:23:29.400
around the ecosystem for so long. Yeah, very exciting.
398
00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:32.799
As an XRP holder, of course, looking to participate in
399
00:23:32.859 --> 00:23:36.250
wherever I can, get the yield, maximize my holdings as
400
00:23:36.309 --> 00:23:39.609
much as possible. So tell us about your XRP acquisition
401
00:23:39.670 --> 00:23:40.690
strategy over time.
402
00:23:41.140 --> 00:23:45.109
What does that look like? Yeah, so our core metric
403
00:23:46.109 --> 00:23:49.589
that we're looking at is to maximize XRP per share.
404
00:23:49.609 --> 00:23:53.750
We're going to look at opportunities across the ecosystem to
405
00:23:53.829 --> 00:24:00.609
help us achieve that. I can't really talk about forward-looking plans.
406
00:24:01.089 --> 00:24:06.490
There's a whole process around that. But we remain committed
407
00:24:06.569 --> 00:24:09.690
to maximizing XRP per share.
408
00:24:10.619 --> 00:24:14.059
Now, And this is probably a new concept to a
409
00:24:14.079 --> 00:24:17.220
lot of people, right? Getting involved in digital asset strategies
410
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:21.549
and companies that are publicly listed holding digital assets. So
411
00:24:22.130 --> 00:24:24.430
it's safe to assume, and this is probably a dumb question,
412
00:24:24.470 --> 00:24:26.809
but just to make sure I cover all bases, I
413
00:24:26.829 --> 00:24:30.970
can access through my XRPN, through my brokerage accounts, potentially
414
00:24:31.019 --> 00:24:32.079
even ETFs over time.
415
00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:36.440
Yeah, so that was like the interesting thing about digital
416
00:24:36.500 --> 00:24:40.180
asset treasuries is that today, if you wanted to add
417
00:24:40.670 --> 00:24:45.339
digital asset to your portfolio, you know, you could, you'd
418
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:47.680
have to go to an exchange, you'd have to like,
419
00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:51.880
you know, create an account, get KYC'd, you know, then
420
00:24:51.900 --> 00:24:53.640
you got to, you know, acquire it, and then you
421
00:24:53.660 --> 00:24:56.240
got to hold it. And it's just like this one
422
00:24:56.339 --> 00:24:58.460
off thing. And you know, if your if your life
423
00:24:58.500 --> 00:25:01.240
is like mine, you just like, don't want one additional,
424
00:25:01.619 --> 00:25:03.869
you know, piece to deal with. And then if you
425
00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:05.809
want to put that to work, there's a whole bunch
426
00:25:05.849 --> 00:25:08.579
of other things you got to do as well. That's
427
00:25:08.599 --> 00:25:11.660
what makes digital asset treasuries really interesting, in my opinion,
428
00:25:11.740 --> 00:25:14.240
is that you can just go to your brokerage account
429
00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:17.140
and you can type in the ticker symbol and that
430
00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:20.289
can be XRPN and that could be a way to
431
00:25:20.619 --> 00:25:27.549
get exposure to digital assets, in this case, XRP. So, hey,
432
00:25:27.569 --> 00:25:32.329
maybe for the first couple of million folks, adding all
433
00:25:32.369 --> 00:25:34.750
that friction was the right call. I do think that
434
00:25:34.769 --> 00:25:39.220
there's this future where you could potentially open up the
435
00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:41.440
market to more people by making it easy and taking
436
00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:42.119
down the friction.
437
00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:44.980
Absolutely. And I always give the example of my mom
438
00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:47.789
and dad. I can't tell them to go to Coinbase
439
00:25:47.980 --> 00:25:50.950
and buy XRP Bitcoin. Like, what?
440
00:25:51.069 --> 00:25:53.509
Or you gave it to someone early on and then
441
00:25:53.549 --> 00:25:57.490
they lost their life. And so we've all been through
442
00:25:58.390 --> 00:26:02.880
those scenarios. And if we learned anything, is that whoever
443
00:26:02.910 --> 00:26:06.890
can take the friction down in different products... uh, you know,
444
00:26:06.950 --> 00:26:10.609
offers a more delightful experience. And so, uh, you know,
445
00:26:10.650 --> 00:26:11.700
that is definitely part of it.
446
00:26:12.109 --> 00:26:14.990
And then obviously the added benefit is what you guys
447
00:26:15.009 --> 00:26:19.569
are doing of growing the ecosystem, DeFi and all those things. So, uh,
448
00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:21.839
it's not just the XRP sitting there, you're putting it
449
00:26:21.880 --> 00:26:24.880
to work. So that's the, a real great added benefit.
450
00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:28.039
Yeah. I mean, like, uh, that's what it's exciting to me.
451
00:26:28.059 --> 00:26:31.789
I've been being in the ecosystem for so long is
452
00:26:31.829 --> 00:26:37.400
that you got this, innovative technology, uh, you know, XRP
453
00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:40.940
and the platform around it that is adding, you know,
454
00:26:40.980 --> 00:26:46.849
features like, you know, lending and vaults and so forth. Well,
455
00:26:47.109 --> 00:26:51.289
putting that to use, I think is, you know, is
456
00:26:51.569 --> 00:26:55.190
something that we want to look at and potentially explore
457
00:26:55.289 --> 00:26:57.809
as we build out our yield strategies into the future.
458
00:26:57.829 --> 00:27:00.630
I don't know if you can disclose this, but I
459
00:27:00.650 --> 00:27:02.849
figured I'd ask because security is always top of mind
460
00:27:02.890 --> 00:27:05.099
for a lot of folks in crypto. Um, who do
461
00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:07.279
you use as custodian or do you have multiple custodians?
462
00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:10.240
Yeah. I mean, it's work. One of the great things
463
00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:12.140
about being a regulated company is like a lot of
464
00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:15.420
this is, uh, already in the disclosures, but yeah, we,
465
00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:18.440
we are, you know, spread across, um, you know, a
466
00:27:18.509 --> 00:27:21.980
number of different custodians. Uh, you know, that is the
467
00:27:22.009 --> 00:27:24.789
good thing, Tony, about building a business in 2026 is
468
00:27:24.829 --> 00:27:28.369
that you have a lot of different custodians, uh, that
469
00:27:28.390 --> 00:27:31.630
are available. This wasn't like the early days. Or you
470
00:27:31.670 --> 00:27:34.809
had to go in a back room somewhere and secure it.
471
00:27:34.849 --> 00:27:37.769
This is, you know, this is a far more mature
472
00:27:37.809 --> 00:27:41.059
market in terms of that kind of security, which, you know,
473
00:27:41.470 --> 00:27:43.140
I'm happy about. Yeah.
474
00:27:43.380 --> 00:27:45.619
You know, you mentioned earlier, we're growing up, the industry's
475
00:27:45.700 --> 00:27:49.059
maturing and things are just way different than they were
476
00:27:49.380 --> 00:27:52.160
even going back to 2022 with FTX and all these things.
477
00:27:52.660 --> 00:27:54.670
It feels like we've turned a corner and that's a
478
00:27:54.930 --> 00:27:55.569
thing of the past.
479
00:27:56.500 --> 00:27:59.220
Yeah, I mean, I certainly hope so. And, you know,
480
00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:02.880
I just, I was at Consensus, you know, this past,
481
00:28:03.059 --> 00:28:06.960
was it spring in Miami? And, you know, if you've
482
00:28:06.980 --> 00:28:09.480
been to that conference over the years, it's, you know,
483
00:28:09.500 --> 00:28:13.329
one year it was like the NFT conference. And this year,
484
00:28:13.349 --> 00:28:16.440
you saw a lot of folks walking around with blazers.
485
00:28:16.740 --> 00:28:19.450
You saw a lot of folks walking around with briefcases.
486
00:28:20.029 --> 00:28:22.410
And you still had the wackiness. Like, I don't ever
487
00:28:22.450 --> 00:28:24.740
want all of that to go away. It's, you know,
488
00:28:24.779 --> 00:28:28.140
you need the innovators as well. And, but you did
489
00:28:28.180 --> 00:28:32.460
see some sort of like maturity there as well. You know,
490
00:28:32.509 --> 00:28:35.289
I even went, you know, to dinner, a crypto dinner,
491
00:28:35.390 --> 00:28:38.309
and it was hosted by one of the largest financial
492
00:28:38.329 --> 00:28:42.210
accounting firms out there. So this is, this is very
493
00:28:42.289 --> 00:28:44.470
different than the 2013 and 14, you know, Bitcoin Amsterdam's,
494
00:28:44.490 --> 00:28:51.579
you know, And again, there was nothing wrong with that.
495
00:28:51.619 --> 00:28:54.759
You had to crawl before you could walk before, you know,
496
00:28:54.940 --> 00:28:56.869
into this future where we're going to be running here.
497
00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:01.430
But it did feel like it was a combination of
498
00:29:02.750 --> 00:29:07.170
the innovators with their traditional innovative financial institutions coming together
499
00:29:07.210 --> 00:29:10.150
in Miami. So let's see where the next big one,
500
00:29:10.650 --> 00:29:13.849
you know, comes out. But I expect that trend to
501
00:29:13.950 --> 00:29:16.009
only continue. And by the way, Tony, like there are
502
00:29:16.069 --> 00:29:22.769
now conferences specifically around real world assets and tokenization, you know,
503
00:29:23.029 --> 00:29:26.650
on chain, bringing Wall Street and the financial institutions together
504
00:29:26.710 --> 00:29:30.869
with crypto companies completely, you know, combining that they're complete
505
00:29:31.130 --> 00:29:36.440
financial conferences, which is different than I think what you saw, before,
506
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:39.640
which for me, bring it on. How exciting.
507
00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:43.259
Yeah, that must be very nice. We talked about it
508
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:45.380
earlier for you because you've been talking to these folks
509
00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:48.460
for years and now they're here joining the party.
510
00:29:48.539 --> 00:29:54.650
I do remember early on, people would be like, XRP,
511
00:29:54.670 --> 00:29:58.799
that's the bank chain. Boring. Boring. And I'm like, welcome. Well,
512
00:29:58.900 --> 00:30:01.480
I welcome it now. I mean, it's like, hey, listen,
513
00:30:02.059 --> 00:30:03.819
you might as well own it. But if that means
514
00:30:03.900 --> 00:30:07.819
that this is the chain for financial use cases, this
515
00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:11.069
is the chain that is going to bring traditional, you know,
516
00:30:11.109 --> 00:30:16.230
folks and new folks to the table to reinvent the
517
00:30:16.289 --> 00:30:21.069
financial ecosystem. That's a good place to be, in my opinion. Absolutely.
518
00:30:21.490 --> 00:30:24.450
And on that note, you know, everybody's on the same
519
00:30:24.490 --> 00:30:28.269
page to move markets 24-7, 365. allow them to, the
520
00:30:28.430 --> 00:30:30.970
assets to go global, where you could be in a
521
00:30:31.029 --> 00:30:33.970
country in Africa and you have a smartphone, you could
522
00:30:33.990 --> 00:30:37.509
be able to maybe access tokenized Tesla or Apple, which
523
00:30:37.670 --> 00:30:38.359
is game changing.
524
00:30:39.380 --> 00:30:42.059
It's absolutely game changing. I mean, the irony of being
525
00:30:42.099 --> 00:30:45.079
listed on the amazing NASDAQ, and they've been great, but
526
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:49.960
the irony of closing Bell, being a blockchain company and
527
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:52.519
talking about the closing Bell at 4 p.m., I mean,
528
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:56.880
financial markets are 24 by 7. Yeah. To your point,
529
00:30:57.140 --> 00:31:01.440
and listen, this could be a great market where, hey,
530
00:31:01.529 --> 00:31:06.170
you mentioned someone in Africa or someone around the world
531
00:31:07.529 --> 00:31:11.930
can post and buy commodities. If they're a farmer, they
532
00:31:11.950 --> 00:31:17.619
can hedge by buying and selling commodities ahead of their crop.
533
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:19.960
So if they have one bad season because of the
534
00:31:20.019 --> 00:31:24.130
weather or drought, they're not completely ruined. So this access
535
00:31:24.190 --> 00:31:28.329
to 24 by seven financial markets, yeah, like the Tesla
536
00:31:28.349 --> 00:31:30.809
stock is a good example, but I think it opens
537
00:31:30.930 --> 00:31:36.089
up a world of access for folks to trade different
538
00:31:36.130 --> 00:31:40.230
kinds of commodities and markets, potentially selling your crop ahead
539
00:31:40.269 --> 00:31:43.599
of the season. I think it's gonna be a game
540
00:31:43.619 --> 00:31:47.380
changer eventually for a whole bunch of people that were
541
00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:54.009
otherwise cut out of the financial ecosystem and financial technology. hey,
542
00:31:54.049 --> 00:31:58.390
baby steps. But it starts with something that you said
543
00:31:58.450 --> 00:32:03.779
early on is that blockchains are, you know, about access, democratization,
544
00:32:04.579 --> 00:32:08.259
and just like the internet, you know, help folks get
545
00:32:08.420 --> 00:32:12.569
access to media across the world. I hope that blockchains
546
00:32:12.630 --> 00:32:17.029
continue down that road and do the same for financial
547
00:32:17.109 --> 00:32:17.910
access as well.
548
00:32:18.630 --> 00:32:22.299
Yeah, that's, I think about people in other countries. We
549
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:24.339
have a really good here in the United States, really good.
550
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:27.210
I have some family in South America and things like that.
551
00:32:27.509 --> 00:32:29.589
And yeah, they wish they could have the same access
552
00:32:29.650 --> 00:32:32.069
as we do. And this technology can open that up
553
00:32:32.109 --> 00:32:32.390
for them.
554
00:32:32.609 --> 00:32:37.750
I remember pitching some venture capitalists in Sand Hill Road
555
00:32:37.990 --> 00:32:42.430
in 2014 and said, hey, this is about financial access.
556
00:32:42.450 --> 00:32:47.059
This is about democratization of access. And the venture capital
557
00:32:47.460 --> 00:32:50.140
person was like, well, I don't see what the problem is.
558
00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:53.400
I got I got PayPal, I got credit cards. And
559
00:32:53.539 --> 00:32:56.000
I was like, yeah, that's because you're in Silicon Valley.
560
00:32:56.400 --> 00:32:59.420
But you go across the border south or you go
561
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:03.250
to any of the emerging markets, and that's not true.
562
00:33:05.730 --> 00:33:09.750
They've been left out of financial access. Even in the
563
00:33:09.789 --> 00:33:14.390
United States, I was a board observer at MoneyGram, and
564
00:33:15.730 --> 00:33:17.950
I was amazed at how many folks, even in the
565
00:33:17.990 --> 00:33:23.119
United States, don't have financial access. So, listen, I think
566
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:25.960
this is good. I think that we hope for a
567
00:33:26.119 --> 00:33:30.700
more digital, accessible world when it comes to financial ecosystems.
568
00:33:31.259 --> 00:33:34.259
But again, baby steps. I think we're in that. We're
569
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:37.279
probably out of the crawl phase. We're in the walk phase.
570
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:39.029
I'm excited to get to the run phase.
571
00:33:39.420 --> 00:33:42.369
Yeah. I know something that's interesting is even though, let's say,
572
00:33:42.390 --> 00:33:45.569
the Clarity Act didn't pass, it hasn't slowed anyone down.
573
00:33:46.230 --> 00:33:49.769
I was surprised. You mentioned Wells Fargo. We talked about
574
00:33:49.789 --> 00:33:53.289
Morgan Stanley. but the institutions are just moving full steam ahead.
575
00:33:53.650 --> 00:33:56.079
It could be because of the regulatory agencies like the SEC,
576
00:33:56.099 --> 00:33:59.660
CFTC are providing guidance. But it seems like, again, everybody's like,
577
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:01.680
who cares? We're just going to build.
578
00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:04.779
Well, I thought the day after the clarity passing, listen,
579
00:34:04.819 --> 00:34:07.289
no one was licking their chops. I think you saw
580
00:34:07.309 --> 00:34:10.510
the SEC and CFTC come out with statements right after
581
00:34:10.530 --> 00:34:17.610
that in terms of providing guidance. And the month following,
582
00:34:17.750 --> 00:34:21.679
you saw a rise in tokenized equities. So I thought
583
00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:25.190
that was a good sign. And listen, I mean, it
584
00:34:25.289 --> 00:34:31.349
is still so early on in this movement. But you
585
00:34:31.369 --> 00:34:35.860
can see the growth happening. You can see the realization
586
00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:45.059
that blockchains could provide a more accessible platform here. But again,
587
00:34:45.079 --> 00:34:49.260
we're in the walkway phase. But again, this is different.
588
00:34:49.380 --> 00:34:52.579
This feels very different than, you know, years prior. You've
589
00:34:52.599 --> 00:34:56.170
got the, you know, big financial institutions, you've got regulation,
590
00:34:56.210 --> 00:34:59.230
you've got the innovators, all sort of working in unison.
591
00:34:59.469 --> 00:35:00.070
Yes.
592
00:35:00.130 --> 00:35:01.050
Which I think is important.
593
00:35:02.210 --> 00:35:04.550
I can't wait for us to talk in 2030 and
594
00:35:04.590 --> 00:35:06.659
look back and say, you remember when we were in
595
00:35:06.679 --> 00:35:08.539
the walk phase and now we're in the run phase
596
00:35:08.599 --> 00:35:09.739
and it's, you know.
597
00:35:09.940 --> 00:35:13.460
So exciting. Hey, listen, it's been so fun, Tony, like,
598
00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:16.469
you know, Checking in with you every, you know, every
599
00:35:16.489 --> 00:35:21.099
so often and, you know, seeing your, you know, career
600
00:35:21.139 --> 00:35:25.219
take off as well, being early and seeing this rise
601
00:35:25.300 --> 00:35:27.860
and being a different kind of thinker as well. And so,
602
00:35:28.699 --> 00:35:31.289
you know, I do look forward to catching up in
603
00:35:31.309 --> 00:35:34.210
the future and seeing where we are. But I think
604
00:35:34.469 --> 00:35:36.750
I feel great about this moment. Absolutely.
605
00:35:37.929 --> 00:35:39.869
I know you're a publicly traded company now, but what
606
00:35:39.889 --> 00:35:41.010
can you share that's on your roadmap?
607
00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:47.679
Well, I think we're closed now. I think first what
608
00:35:47.719 --> 00:35:49.960
we want to do is start putting some of this
609
00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:55.630
XRP to work. Again, being very methodical about it and
610
00:35:55.710 --> 00:35:59.329
looking at the relevant risks and controls in place. But
611
00:35:59.349 --> 00:36:02.260
I think I'm looking forward to also working with the
612
00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:06.210
XRP team and giving product feedback as well. What are
613
00:36:06.230 --> 00:36:11.239
those kinds of new protocols and new features that financial
614
00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:16.340
institutions need to scale? So getting back into the product
615
00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:19.280
game is super exciting for me. But doing it in
616
00:36:19.340 --> 00:36:22.480
concert with all the other partners out there is exciting.
617
00:36:22.579 --> 00:36:25.840
So that's what we have planned. We got a lot
618
00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:27.739
of work ahead of us. But hey, I think that
619
00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:31.630
this is an exciting moment for the industry. And bell
620
00:36:31.670 --> 00:36:35.730
ringing on the NASDAQ was super exciting. But now it's
621
00:36:35.769 --> 00:36:38.510
time to get back to work. Yeah.
622
00:36:38.909 --> 00:36:43.409
Well, I'm excited. It's awesome to see XRP on the
623
00:36:43.429 --> 00:36:47.570
NASDAQ publicly traded. And I'm looking forward to our next conversation,
624
00:36:47.590 --> 00:36:49.409
which will probably be early 2027. And yeah, I'm sure
625
00:36:50.739 --> 00:36:53.179
you guys are going to be heads down building. But Ashish,
626
00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:55.199
thank you so much for taking the time. Always a pleasure.
627
00:36:55.300 --> 00:36:58.679
And thanks for having me here in your beautiful studio
628
00:36:58.719 --> 00:36:59.360
in New York City.
629
00:36:59.860 --> 00:37:02.360
Thank you so much for tuning in. Please hit the
630
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:04.860
like button. Subscribe if you haven't as yet. If you're
631
00:37:04.900 --> 00:37:07.880
listening on a podcast platform, such as Spotify or Apple,
632
00:37:08.139 --> 00:37:10.150
please follow and leave a five-star rating.
633
00:37:10.550 --> 00:37:11.230
Thank you so much.
