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Today I sit down with Naomi Shelton, the CEO of the National Charter Collaborative, a network of education leaders of color who collectively serve nearly a quarter of a million students across the country.
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Naomi, we made it.
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We did.
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Schedules aligned, our mics are on, we are here.
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Welcome to the podcast.
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Listen, I'm happy to be home and I'm happy to be here.
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So thank you.
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So I like this.
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You're happy to be home.
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So I think for our listeners and our watchers, I think they should know where we sit today.
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Absolutely.
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We are at the Friendship Public Charter School Armstrong Campus.
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It's in the heart of Washington, D.C.
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Right.
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It is led by an incredibly tenacious and courageous CEO, Patricia Brantley, your friend and mine.
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Friendship has been leading incredible student outcomes for nearly 30 years.
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And I am grateful and I am appreciative of the inspiration and really the support they give this platform.
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So if you don't know Friendship, you need to get to know them.
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Indeed, it's one of my favorite schools to brag on.
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Absolutely.
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So I want to start with a question that we really pose to everyone who joins the podcast.
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In this moment in public education and really education at large, how do you as a leader feel you need to be most tenacious?
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Well, working in the charter space is a place that you have to be tenacious.
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The autonomy, but also the innovation that shows up in this space, there's no other way to operate.
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Thinking through what it looks like to support leaders, but also continue to find ways to improve what we do, to improve student outcomes, it means you cannot follow the status quo.
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You can't follow the rules.
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You have to think outside the box.
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And I am proud to have not only thought outside the box in this role, but in the roles that led me to this space.
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So you've got on your Tougaloo gear.
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I do.
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You reverend Tugaloo from Jackson, Mississippi.
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Every single day.
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Every single day.
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So you you talked about not adhering to the status quo.
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You talked about, I think, in a smart way, I would say, I'm sure in a strategic way, we're not going to be confined by the rules of just the past.
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So what does that really mean for someone who works in public charter schools?
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Absolutely.
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So I am a fourth generation of Tugeloo College.
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My mother, my grandmother, and my great-grandparents all attended Tugeloo.
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And our motto is really simple: where history meets the future.
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And that has been a guidepost for me throughout my career.
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Of course, it matters that you have an anchor and a legacy and all of those things, but that also means that you're able to incubate so that you can thrive in spaces no matter what.
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And so I've seen the uh the charter space do just that.
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So it's interesting.
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So last in our first episode, I talked to Dr.
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Hakeem Lucas, who is the president and CEO of Virginia Union University, and he talked about his perspective on the blueprint and how it requires him to be tenacious.
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You know, it's it's one of these things where you think, I need to build something for students who desperately need it right now.
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And they can't necessarily afford to wait till the bureaucracy catches up.
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That's right.
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What I've noticed here in DC is that it's a it's a really it's developed into a really strong balance.
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That's right, right?
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That's exactly right.
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What are you talking about?
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Um nearly half of the students in DC are educated in public charter schools.
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Um I served on the DC Public Charter School Board, which is the authorizer for charter schools here in DC.
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And in that time, being able to not only hold schools accountable, but open up the opportunity for new schools to be created, that is something that I don't take lightly.
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Uh schools like Friendship that have been around for more than two decades, how do we make sure that we're holding true to what their premise was, but also creating opportunity for new schools to come to light?
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Uh what I appreciate about the charter space, but also how that connects to the work that I did at UNCF, is this is a pipeline.
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This is an ecosystem that can demonstrate what it means to have students go from high school on to college, and if they so choose, move back into that space.
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So, you know, thinking about authorizing schools, that you're also thinking about the teachers, the leaders, and what does it mean for them to create the environment to make sure the students are able to thrive in society, but also to see charter schools allow you to have more room and opportunity to do that instead of sitting in the bureaucracy and the red tape?
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And what is it that you can create outside of that?
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Because that is what we do as a people, that is what it has been done over the last 200 years, and how do we make sure that we continue to hold true to that while creating new opportunity?
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Uh so I spent about six and a half years at UNCF building out their K-12 advocacy strategy.
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What do we need to do to make sure that grass top leaders understand how ed reform is something that we can reclaim, right?
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That that reclamation of what it is that we did for ourselves can be done again in this context.
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Now, I mean, hold on one second, because you said something that was was serious.
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Reclaiming ed reform.
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That's right.
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And so oftentimes we hear that word and you associate it with public charter schools.
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You get the side eye, you get a pushback, you get the hesitancy.
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It's almost a us versus them versus all of us in this together.
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Can you help us draw a through line between what ed reform has always been, particularly among communities of color, and what ed reform is right now?
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Absolutely.
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So DC is the home base of what it means to have homegrown, community-grown schools.
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Uh what I have found interesting in learning the history of uh education, public education here in DC, it is very clear that black people were at the foundation of all of that, including and not limited to what has happened in the charter space.
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There was, of course, after the charter laws were passed, there was this proliferation of uh larger CMOs, so replication of schools that exist.
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But DC was one of the spots, one of those places where the people of color that started schools reflected the communities that they serve.
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So black and brown leaders here.
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Uh so long-standing institutions like Friendship, Cesar Chavez, that are led by black and brown folks, that really changes what the narrative is in terms of what has happened across the country.
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And so, do you see what's happening in D.C., what's happened in D.C.
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over nearly three decades?
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Are you seeing that in other places?
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I want to give people a sense of this isn't just just D.C.
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or this isn't just Los Angeles.
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That's right.
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But this is a national movement that's been around for a long time.
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Well, of course, I can connect several dots, and I'll say that what I'm seeing in Alabama right now is also a modern version of what has happened in D.C.
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So New Schools for Alabama, which is a uh charter support organization, has really leaned into what does it look like to have community lead on what education can and should be for the students that they serve.
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Uh, of the, I want to say 23 schools, 19 of those schools that they had there were founded by leaders of color.
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There's an amazing partnership with Stillman College and IDream Big, which is a charter school founded by a young woman who lived across the street from Stillman for years.
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And thinking through what does that look like in terms of replicating that and taking what we have learned from the decades, centuries of work that HBCUs have done, we know how to do this.
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This is a renaissance of what we've had before and how do we reclaim that narrative.
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Uh, in 2016, I want to say, UNCF wrote a report called Building Better Narratives in Black Education.
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And in that, we really focused on how do we send like how do we really focus on and amplify the stories of black leaders that are doing things that are outside of traditional district work?
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Uh by doing that, we're doing exactly what our our forefathers did in terms of we have the space and opportunity and what can we create for ourselves.
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So, how do we proliferate that message?
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How do we make it tangible?
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How do people feel that they can personally buy into it?
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Oftentimes, you know, you don't feel it until it's it's at your doorstep.
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That's right.
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It's my child, it's my family.
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Uh, but we know that education, reform, and innovation is here to stay.
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If you're not growing, you're dying.
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That's right.
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So, what is the message to someone who has been reluctant, or maybe reluctant because they don't know enough about public charter schools?
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What do you say to them?
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Well, I say a few different things.
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Uh, one of the things that I found in how my entry point was uh widened in the space.
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My mother served on a charter board as a board member.
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Uh, and in hearing that, the reason she selected that school was because it was a black woman who had no formal education experience, but wanted to create a space and opportunity for kids to have the opportunity and pathways that she did.
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Uh so Achievement Prep founded here in Washington, D.C.
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Did not know that.
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Yes.
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Chantel Wright uh was a lawyer by training and had the opportunity to go through, matriculate through Howard Union, no, I'm sorry.
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Matriculate through Hampton University.
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And and get that right.
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That's right, because they're, you know, real H you.
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I don't want I don't want the back, I don't want the comments like to flood this.
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Hampton University, yeah.
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I want to make sure that it was clear for her too.
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It's clear.
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Um, but that that commonality that they had as HBCU graduates, what does it mean to really own and reclaim what you're doing for students?
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And so in that, I had the opportunity to hear directly from someone I trusted about work that I was interested in.
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Having a black woman say, not only do I appreciate what this woman is doing and how she is moving, I understand it because we have the same foundation, we're in the same sorority, and I know that I want to support the work that she is doing.
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And so thinking about what does that mean to have community think about this work collaboratively?
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This is something that we've done throughout our history here in this country.
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We have been able to create spaces for ourselves, but also thrive no matter what.
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Right.
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And so in this moment where we see tremendous political shifts, we see all these things that are happening that don't speak to what it is that we need, where do we find that window of opportunity to build where we have not been able to in the in the past?
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So I think a few things.
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I took a few notes.
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I like this.
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Own and reclaim for our students.
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Own and reclaim.
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Because we know that 30 years ago when you know the charter law was passed, you know, if you could take advantage of it, you did.
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But there was a a group, a consortium of people of color, of black people who said, you know what, this is a fresh opportunity for us to deliver on that promise of education.
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And then you talked about your personal story.
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So I like this idea of us reclaiming by sharing our personal story in places and spaces where you may not hear public charter school or you may not see a public charter leader.
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Do you do a lot of that in your work as CEO?
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Oh, every day, absolutely.
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So my grandmother attended the the day school that was on Tugaloo College's campus and then matriculated through Tugaloo, but then became a teacher, right?
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And so I've seen education and its totality and how sitting on that campus day in and day out committed my grandmother to what education can and should be for black students.
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And that is something that we believe to be possible through this partnership with HBCUs and charter schools.
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Uh, like I mentioned, Stillman College has a charter school on its campus right now that they've been able to create the opportunity for students to see what it looks like to be on a college campus.
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Love it.
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And that in and of itself means that you're opening up another window of opportunity, not just a door, but window.
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So how do we make sure that folks are able to see I can come in and out of this space and also thrive and have something to aspire to.
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Again, I think it's really important that we one focus on how do we create the opportunity for black folks to sit in the space of this is something that is in our DNA.
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Right?
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And you have to recognize that they're not always going to pull that seat up to you for the table.
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They're not gonna always open the door.
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But you know how to get through the door.
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That's right.
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Or better yet, you can build your own table and then you invite them in.
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That's right.
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And that's why windows, tables, chairs, whatever we need to have, we have it already.
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I'm getting chills.
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I love it.
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It is one of it, uh, it is one of my proudest moments to not only be connected to UNCF in this time, but also to see what legacy do we need to build on because it's already there.
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So now you talked about UNCF, and we're gonna get into it.
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We are going to get into it, but I think it's important to make kind of draw this connection.
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So right here in DC, you've got one of uh the I think more well-known uh charter schools, School Without Walls.
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Yes.
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They are connected with George Washington University.
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So why wouldn't we have those same connections and spaces and places for our historically black colleges and universities?
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I love it.
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So tell me about this UNCF partnership.
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Absolutely.
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So UNCF has uh for years, for the last uh, I think we're pushing up on 13 years, has been really focused on how do we create the connection between higher ed and K-12.
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We know that people care about giving money to make sure that students are able to persist to and through college, but what do we do to create that pipeline?
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And I think what we know to be true is the teacher preparation programs that were on campuses, the day schools that were on campuses, those are all things that we can replicate because they unfortunately started to shift because this country thought about education differently.
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We don't honor teachers in the way that we can and should.
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And in doing what we know to be true by data, that black teachers, no matter the students' race, no matter their uh their socioeconomic background, black teachers have an impact on what happens with students across this country.
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And so, how do we not only create more teachers of color, but also make sure that the students who are the black students have an opportunity to see what higher ed can and should do for them.
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My next question is how is this pipeline different?
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So I heard two things that I thought were really incredible.
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Number one, this ink incubator or this place in space that prepares more black and brown teachers.
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Number one.
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And then the other the other one is really not under undervaluing the importance of representation.
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Our kids still need to see and feel why they should go to college, why they should persist through college, and is there a real viable pathway for them to go there?
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And I think it's important that when you think about the schools that were founded here in DC by black people, a majority of them did attend HBCUs.
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And so that that ecosystem, that understanding of I want to give back to my community is really rooted in, I believe in educational excellence, and that means that I can cross, I can bring that across the entire educational experience.
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Uh and what I know to be true about this particular uh partnership is we're not thinking about this as transactional or just opening schools for the sake of opening schools.
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There is a deep wealth of knowledge that comes from the HBCU space because they have been educating students, all types of students, right?
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From the kids that grew up around and went to Martha's Vineyard to the kids that have been underserved in inner city communities.
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We have been doing this for all of these students.
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And how do we make sure that we replicate what we have done and bring that into the forefront?
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And so having HBCUs connected to the K-12 experience, one, creates more continuity.
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We know what students do and do not have, and making sure that what we have learned from even the divide in those two things, what schools have been able to do to remediate students that come in underprepared, to bring students into an understanding of themselves that allows them to thrive once they leave those campuses, that is something that when you start that pipeline earlier, yes, will make a huge impact in what students believe is to be true for them and for their communities.
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I mean, as early as second, third, fourth, and fifth grade saying, I want to go to Howard.
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Something that's right there in their hands.
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So what are the next steps to this?
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Tell me what can we expect from this partnership?
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Sure.
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So there's the governance of schools, but there's also how do we create new schools?
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And so there's an opportunity to learn from the leaders that my organization supports.
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So NCC has more than 450 school leaders and schools across the country that are focused on educating students that reflect the communities of that leader.
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And in doing that, recognizing how do we make sure that those leaders know the pipelines to college directly.
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But more importantly, how do we create schools on those campuses that allow for the teacher preparation, for the leadership development, but to create that ecosystem.
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So to build new schools, yes, but to also to build upon and amplify the work that exists now.
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And so that also includes making sure that schools that have the opportunity to co-locate, like Howard University and Howard Middle School for Math and Science, to have existing partnerships.
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So for instance, if Friendship created a campus on Pine Bluff, University of Arkansas, Pine Bluffs campus, what would that look like?
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Uh but there's also that governance work.
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What does it look like for HBCU alums to serve on the boards of charter schools?
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Now that's something.
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Because that then shifts the narrative in ways that are more organic and that people recognize this isn't about other people coming into our communities and dictating what happens with students.
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It is people who look like that community, who come from that community and who care about that community, infusing their appreciation for the education landscape earlier and moving that through.
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It also includes HBCUs serving as authorizers of charter schools.
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In about six states across the country, HBCUs are able to serve as charter school authorizers.
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And so that means that the ability to open new schools, to hold schools accountable, but also when schools are not performing, to make sure that they are able to shift those students to schools that are going to serve them properly, that again is an ownership that belongs to us.
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And I believe as someone who has served as an authorizer, who has been directly connected to them to someone who was a member of a school's board, having HBCU alums who have a plethora of expertise from accounting to lawyers to people that understand any and everything around operations that can be helpful to infuse into the charter space.
00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:58.559
Well, I love this idea of really giving young people and young graduates seasoned, obviously experienced, but young, they're fresh, they're innovative, they're thinking about what's next to be on these boards.
00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:03.200
Ultimately, these schools are looking to create pathways to create young people just like those individuals.
00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:04.720
Hopefully they'll appear on those boards.
00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:05.519
Exactly.
00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:08.880
So I'm in school, I'm interested in what you're saying.
00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:12.880
I'm like, wow, I would love to have a college partnership.
00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:13.920
How do I start?
00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:14.400
Sure.
00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:19.359
So of course, NCC is working with uh school leaders that have expressed interest on their own.
00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:26.319
So the reason that this has started to have a groundswell is because there are people who've said, you know what, I see this opportunity.
00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:42.160
I've seen what has happened uh in Delaware, in DC, uh in Alabama, and I would like to take that opportunity myself, either to have a direct pipeline to create teacher uh prep programs or to think through what does it look like for me to expand to that campus.
00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:56.000
Uh that work is something that we, alongside UNCF and alongside alongside NAXA, the National Association for Charter School Authorizers, are truly focused on how do we make sure that we're all in alignment.
00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:59.359
So when the opportunities present themselves, we send them to the right pipeline.
00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:01.039
So I'm a comms person.
00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:04.799
And so I'm always thinking about how you reframe the message.
00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:21.200
So for anyone who may be skeptical or may have some uncertainty about charter schools or just unaware, this partnership brings a sense of familiarity and a sense of um ownership to the space.
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:24.720
You know, redefining, you know, what choice looks like.
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:29.839
Because even where you got you've got you've got education reform, and then sometimes you have choice.
00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:33.039
And you say choice and the conversation goes it goes sideways.
00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:33.599
That's right.
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:45.039
But when you really think about what does choice mean, it means giving that young scholar absolutely every opportunity possible to thrive, which includes this partnership you're talking about.
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:45.359
That's right.
00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:46.640
I like redefining choice.
00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:47.200
That's right.
00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:57.599
Just in as I said, with the uh the report that UNCF released uh in 2016, building better narratives of black education means that those are things that we can claim.
00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:10.000
Of course, how that is reframed and we see it every day in our political landscape, people will turn a word, a phrase, or a movement into what they want it to be to either project or to negate what is happening in that space.
00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:22.880
But if we have an understanding of our goal, our North Star is to make sure that more students have the opportunity to pursue higher ed and career, we can navigate that ourselves in the current conditions.
00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:31.359
I think it's really important to understand that this current administration and administration administrations before have been able to shift and talk about this work.
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:34.400
But what is it that we know to be true about us and what we can do?
00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:35.519
We are resilient.
00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:39.279
We are committed to what it means to have excellence.
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And it shows up in many forms.
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:49.279
But what I know to be true is that there are people who have been doing this work, putting their heads down and making things happen for students across this country.
00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:58.799
If we are able to replicate that, to grow that and amplify that, that is something that we continue to manage, continue to own, and that can continue to thrive.
00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:00.559
What do you hope for next?
00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:04.319
What is your tenacious hope for public education?
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:20.160
That we return to and have a renaissance of the responsibility that the community has for the outcomes of black students and making sure that we are doing that by not only being involved, but reclaiming ownership of what that means.
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:21.680
This is a phenomenal conversation.
00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:23.279
And I'm excited to continue the conversation.
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:24.240
Really quickly.
00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:28.559
So you talked about Alabama, you talked about, of course, DC and Howard.
00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:32.319
Are there any new partnerships on the horizon that you want to share?
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:32.960
Absolutely.
00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:37.200
So there's a school that was founded in Indianapolis by an HBCU graduate.
00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:42.559
Uh that school uh is in partnership with Harrisowe in that that region.
00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:47.759
And so Believe Schools, those schools have expanded to outside of the Indianapolis area.
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:51.440
And what does that look like to directly partner with an HBCU?
00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:57.920
And so that relationship between Harris Town State University and Believe Schools is an example of what's possible.
00:22:58.240 --> 00:22:58.559
Okay.
00:22:58.720 --> 00:22:59.759
Well, this is phenomenal.
00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:01.839
I listen, we are cheering you on.
00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:04.319
Of course, you know friendship is a huge supporter.
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:06.559
I really believe in this partnership.
00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:08.720
You know, we call this series the blueprint.
00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:11.920
There was a blueprint, and you constantly build on it.
00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:15.039
So I see the work that you're doing as part of the collaborative.
00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:24.240
That is really expanding and refining and strengthening this blueprint, which I believe should be the anchor of exceptional education for all.
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:25.519
Thank you for your leadership.
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:26.559
Thank you so much, King.
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:28.400
I have so many more questions, but you'll be back.
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:28.960
Absolutely.
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:30.319
All right, and we're going to keep talking.
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:31.680
Thank you so much for the opportunity.
00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:32.720
Until next time.
00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:33.279
Thank you.
00:00:33.119 --> 00:00:45.600
Today I sit down with Naomi Shelton, the CEO of the National Charter Collaborative, a network of education leaders of color who collectively serve nearly a quarter of a million students across the country.
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Naomi, we made it.
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We did.
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Schedules aligned, our mics are on, we are here.
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Welcome to the podcast.
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Listen, I'm happy to be home and I'm happy to be here.
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So thank you.
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So I like this.
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You're happy to be home.
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So I think for our listeners and our watchers, I think they should know where we sit today.
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Absolutely.
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We are at the Friendship Public Charter School Armstrong Campus.
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It's in the heart of Washington, D.C.
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Right.
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It is led by an incredibly tenacious and courageous CEO, Patricia Brantley, your friend and mine.
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Friendship has been leading incredible student outcomes for nearly 30 years.
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And I am grateful and I am appreciative of the inspiration and really the support they give this platform.
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So if you don't know Friendship, you need to get to know them.
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Indeed, it's one of my favorite schools to brag on.
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Absolutely.
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So I want to start with a question that we really pose to everyone who joins the podcast.
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In this moment in public education and really education at large, how do you as a leader feel you need to be most tenacious?
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Well, working in the charter space is a place that you have to be tenacious.
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The autonomy, but also the innovation that shows up in this space, there's no other way to operate.
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Thinking through what it looks like to support leaders, but also continue to find ways to improve what we do, to improve student outcomes, it means you cannot follow the status quo.
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You can't follow the rules.
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You have to think outside the box.
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And I am proud to have not only thought outside the box in this role, but in the roles that led me to this space.
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So you've got on your Tougaloo gear.
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I do.
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You reverend Tugaloo from Jackson, Mississippi.
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Every single day.
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Every single day.
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So you you talked about not adhering to the status quo.
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You talked about, I think, in a smart way, I would say, I'm sure in a strategic way, we're not going to be confined by the rules of just the past.
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So what does that really mean for someone who works in public charter schools?
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Absolutely.
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So I am a fourth generation of Tugeloo College.
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My mother, my grandmother, and my great-grandparents all attended Tugeloo.
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And our motto is really simple: where history meets the future.
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And that has been a guidepost for me throughout my career.
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Of course, it matters that you have an anchor and a legacy and all of those things, but that also means that you're able to incubate so that you can thrive in spaces no matter what.
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And so I've seen the uh the charter space do just that.
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So it's interesting.
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So last in our first episode, I talked to Dr.
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Hakeem Lucas, who is the president and CEO of Virginia Union University, and he talked about his perspective on the blueprint and how it requires him to be tenacious.
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You know, it's it's one of these things where you think, I need to build something for students who desperately need it right now.
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And they can't necessarily afford to wait till the bureaucracy catches up.
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That's right.
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What I've noticed here in DC is that it's a it's a really it's developed into a really strong balance.
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That's right, right?
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That's exactly right.
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What are you talking about?
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Um nearly half of the students in DC are educated in public charter schools.
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Um I served on the DC Public Charter School Board, which is the authorizer for charter schools here in DC.
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And in that time, being able to not only hold schools accountable, but open up the opportunity for new schools to be created, that is something that I don't take lightly.
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Uh schools like Friendship that have been around for more than two decades, how do we make sure that we're holding true to what their premise was, but also creating opportunity for new schools to come to light?
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Uh what I appreciate about the charter space, but also how that connects to the work that I did at UNCF, is this is a pipeline.
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This is an ecosystem that can demonstrate what it means to have students go from high school on to college, and if they so choose, move back into that space.
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So, you know, thinking about authorizing schools, that you're also thinking about the teachers, the leaders, and what does it mean for them to create the environment to make sure the students are able to thrive in society, but also to see charter schools allow you to have more room and opportunity to do that instead of sitting in the bureaucracy and the red tape?
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And what is it that you can create outside of that?
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Because that is what we do as a people, that is what it has been done over the last 200 years, and how do we make sure that we continue to hold true to that while creating new opportunity?
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Uh so I spent about six and a half years at UNCF building out their K-12 advocacy strategy.
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What do we need to do to make sure that grass top leaders understand how ed reform is something that we can reclaim, right?
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That that reclamation of what it is that we did for ourselves can be done again in this context.
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Now, I mean, hold on one second, because you said something that was was serious.
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Reclaiming ed reform.
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That's right.
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And so oftentimes we hear that word and you associate it with public charter schools.
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You get the side eye, you get a pushback, you get the hesitancy.
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It's almost a us versus them versus all of us in this together.
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Can you help us draw a through line between what ed reform has always been, particularly among communities of color, and what ed reform is right now?
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Absolutely.
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So DC is the home base of what it means to have homegrown, community-grown schools.
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Uh what I have found interesting in learning the history of uh education, public education here in DC, it is very clear that black people were at the foundation of all of that, including and not limited to what has happened in the charter space.
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There was, of course, after the charter laws were passed, there was this proliferation of uh larger CMOs, so replication of schools that exist.
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But DC was one of the spots, one of those places where the people of color that started schools reflected the communities that they serve.
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So black and brown leaders here.
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Uh so long-standing institutions like Friendship, Cesar Chavez, that are led by black and brown folks, that really changes what the narrative is in terms of what has happened across the country.
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And so, do you see what's happening in D.C., what's happened in D.C.
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over nearly three decades?
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Are you seeing that in other places?
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I want to give people a sense of this isn't just just D.C.
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or this isn't just Los Angeles.
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That's right.
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But this is a national movement that's been around for a long time.
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Well, of course, I can connect several dots, and I'll say that what I'm seeing in Alabama right now is also a modern version of what has happened in D.C.
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So New Schools for Alabama, which is a uh charter support organization, has really leaned into what does it look like to have community lead on what education can and should be for the students that they serve.
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Uh, of the, I want to say 23 schools, 19 of those schools that they had there were founded by leaders of color.
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There's an amazing partnership with Stillman College and IDream Big, which is a charter school founded by a young woman who lived across the street from Stillman for years.
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And thinking through what does that look like in terms of replicating that and taking what we have learned from the decades, centuries of work that HBCUs have done, we know how to do this.
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This is a renaissance of what we've had before and how do we reclaim that narrative.
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Uh, in 2016, I want to say, UNCF wrote a report called Building Better Narratives in Black Education.
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And in that, we really focused on how do we send like how do we really focus on and amplify the stories of black leaders that are doing things that are outside of traditional district work?
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Uh by doing that, we're doing exactly what our our forefathers did in terms of we have the space and opportunity and what can we create for ourselves.
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So, how do we proliferate that message?
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How do we make it tangible?
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How do people feel that they can personally buy into it?
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Oftentimes, you know, you don't feel it until it's it's at your doorstep.
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That's right.
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It's my child, it's my family.
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Uh, but we know that education, reform, and innovation is here to stay.
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If you're not growing, you're dying.
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That's right.
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So, what is the message to someone who has been reluctant, or maybe reluctant because they don't know enough about public charter schools?
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What do you say to them?
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Well, I say a few different things.
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Uh, one of the things that I found in how my entry point was uh widened in the space.
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My mother served on a charter board as a board member.
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Uh, and in hearing that, the reason she selected that school was because it was a black woman who had no formal education experience, but wanted to create a space and opportunity for kids to have the opportunity and pathways that she did.
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Uh so Achievement Prep founded here in Washington, D.C.
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Did not know that.
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Yes.
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Chantel Wright uh was a lawyer by training and had the opportunity to go through, matriculate through Howard Union, no, I'm sorry.
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Matriculate through Hampton University.
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And and get that right.
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That's right, because they're, you know, real H you.
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I don't want I don't want the back, I don't want the comments like to flood this.
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Hampton University, yeah.
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I want to make sure that it was clear for her too.
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It's clear.
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Um, but that that commonality that they had as HBCU graduates, what does it mean to really own and reclaim what you're doing for students?
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And so in that, I had the opportunity to hear directly from someone I trusted about work that I was interested in.
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Having a black woman say, not only do I appreciate what this woman is doing and how she is moving, I understand it because we have the same foundation, we're in the same sorority, and I know that I want to support the work that she is doing.
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And so thinking about what does that mean to have community think about this work collaboratively?
00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:26.320
This is something that we've done throughout our history here in this country.
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We have been able to create spaces for ourselves, but also thrive no matter what.
00:10:32.080 --> 00:10:32.320
Right.
00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:46.320
And so in this moment where we see tremendous political shifts, we see all these things that are happening that don't speak to what it is that we need, where do we find that window of opportunity to build where we have not been able to in the in the past?
00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:47.840
So I think a few things.
00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:48.960
I took a few notes.
00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:50.559
I like this.
00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:54.080
Own and reclaim for our students.
00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:55.759
Own and reclaim.
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Because we know that 30 years ago when you know the charter law was passed, you know, if you could take advantage of it, you did.
00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:14.240
But there was a a group, a consortium of people of color, of black people who said, you know what, this is a fresh opportunity for us to deliver on that promise of education.
00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:16.639
And then you talked about your personal story.
00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:26.639
So I like this idea of us reclaiming by sharing our personal story in places and spaces where you may not hear public charter school or you may not see a public charter leader.
00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:28.720
Do you do a lot of that in your work as CEO?
00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:30.879
Oh, every day, absolutely.
00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:39.759
So my grandmother attended the the day school that was on Tugaloo College's campus and then matriculated through Tugaloo, but then became a teacher, right?
00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:49.759
And so I've seen education and its totality and how sitting on that campus day in and day out committed my grandmother to what education can and should be for black students.
00:11:49.919 --> 00:11:54.879
And that is something that we believe to be possible through this partnership with HBCUs and charter schools.
00:11:55.279 --> 00:12:04.879
Uh, like I mentioned, Stillman College has a charter school on its campus right now that they've been able to create the opportunity for students to see what it looks like to be on a college campus.
00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:05.440
Love it.
00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:10.799
And that in and of itself means that you're opening up another window of opportunity, not just a door, but window.
00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:19.120
So how do we make sure that folks are able to see I can come in and out of this space and also thrive and have something to aspire to.
00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:29.919
Again, I think it's really important that we one focus on how do we create the opportunity for black folks to sit in the space of this is something that is in our DNA.
00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:30.879
Right?
00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:35.200
And you have to recognize that they're not always going to pull that seat up to you for the table.
00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:37.200
They're not gonna always open the door.
00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:38.720
But you know how to get through the door.
00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:39.120
That's right.
00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:41.600
Or better yet, you can build your own table and then you invite them in.
00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:42.080
That's right.
00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:46.879
And that's why windows, tables, chairs, whatever we need to have, we have it already.
00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:47.840
I'm getting chills.
00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:48.159
I love it.
00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:58.639
It is one of it, uh, it is one of my proudest moments to not only be connected to UNCF in this time, but also to see what legacy do we need to build on because it's already there.
00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:01.120
So now you talked about UNCF, and we're gonna get into it.
00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:05.279
We are going to get into it, but I think it's important to make kind of draw this connection.
00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:11.759
So right here in DC, you've got one of uh the I think more well-known uh charter schools, School Without Walls.
00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:12.080
Yes.
00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:15.120
They are connected with George Washington University.
00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:20.080
So why wouldn't we have those same connections and spaces and places for our historically black colleges and universities?
00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:20.799
I love it.
00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:22.720
So tell me about this UNCF partnership.
00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:23.360
Absolutely.
00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:33.759
So UNCF has uh for years, for the last uh, I think we're pushing up on 13 years, has been really focused on how do we create the connection between higher ed and K-12.
00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:40.960
We know that people care about giving money to make sure that students are able to persist to and through college, but what do we do to create that pipeline?
00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:55.919
And I think what we know to be true is the teacher preparation programs that were on campuses, the day schools that were on campuses, those are all things that we can replicate because they unfortunately started to shift because this country thought about education differently.
00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:58.639
We don't honor teachers in the way that we can and should.
00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:11.919
And in doing what we know to be true by data, that black teachers, no matter the students' race, no matter their uh their socioeconomic background, black teachers have an impact on what happens with students across this country.
00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:23.919
And so, how do we not only create more teachers of color, but also make sure that the students who are the black students have an opportunity to see what higher ed can and should do for them.
00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:28.639
My next question is how is this pipeline different?
00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:30.879
So I heard two things that I thought were really incredible.
00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:39.120
Number one, this ink incubator or this place in space that prepares more black and brown teachers.
00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:40.159
Number one.
00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:48.080
And then the other the other one is really not under undervaluing the importance of representation.
00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:57.039
Our kids still need to see and feel why they should go to college, why they should persist through college, and is there a real viable pathway for them to go there?
00:14:57.279 --> 00:15:04.480
And I think it's important that when you think about the schools that were founded here in DC by black people, a majority of them did attend HBCUs.
00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:16.639
And so that that ecosystem, that understanding of I want to give back to my community is really rooted in, I believe in educational excellence, and that means that I can cross, I can bring that across the entire educational experience.
00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:25.120
Uh and what I know to be true about this particular uh partnership is we're not thinking about this as transactional or just opening schools for the sake of opening schools.
00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:33.440
There is a deep wealth of knowledge that comes from the HBCU space because they have been educating students, all types of students, right?
00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:40.320
From the kids that grew up around and went to Martha's Vineyard to the kids that have been underserved in inner city communities.
00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:43.039
We have been doing this for all of these students.
00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:47.600
And how do we make sure that we replicate what we have done and bring that into the forefront?
00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:52.639
And so having HBCUs connected to the K-12 experience, one, creates more continuity.
00:15:52.799 --> 00:16:18.559
We know what students do and do not have, and making sure that what we have learned from even the divide in those two things, what schools have been able to do to remediate students that come in underprepared, to bring students into an understanding of themselves that allows them to thrive once they leave those campuses, that is something that when you start that pipeline earlier, yes, will make a huge impact in what students believe is to be true for them and for their communities.
00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:25.919
I mean, as early as second, third, fourth, and fifth grade saying, I want to go to Howard.
00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:27.679
Something that's right there in their hands.
00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:29.759
So what are the next steps to this?
00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:31.519
Tell me what can we expect from this partnership?
00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:31.919
Sure.
00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:36.000
So there's the governance of schools, but there's also how do we create new schools?
00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:39.600
And so there's an opportunity to learn from the leaders that my organization supports.
00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:49.120
So NCC has more than 450 school leaders and schools across the country that are focused on educating students that reflect the communities of that leader.
00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:56.320
And in doing that, recognizing how do we make sure that those leaders know the pipelines to college directly.
00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:05.599
But more importantly, how do we create schools on those campuses that allow for the teacher preparation, for the leadership development, but to create that ecosystem.
00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:13.279
So to build new schools, yes, but to also to build upon and amplify the work that exists now.
00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:24.400
And so that also includes making sure that schools that have the opportunity to co-locate, like Howard University and Howard Middle School for Math and Science, to have existing partnerships.
00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:31.200
So for instance, if Friendship created a campus on Pine Bluff, University of Arkansas, Pine Bluffs campus, what would that look like?
00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:33.039
Uh but there's also that governance work.
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:37.359
What does it look like for HBCU alums to serve on the boards of charter schools?
00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:39.680
Now that's something.
00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:50.559
Because that then shifts the narrative in ways that are more organic and that people recognize this isn't about other people coming into our communities and dictating what happens with students.
00:17:50.720 --> 00:18:00.720
It is people who look like that community, who come from that community and who care about that community, infusing their appreciation for the education landscape earlier and moving that through.
00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:04.640
It also includes HBCUs serving as authorizers of charter schools.
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:10.240
In about six states across the country, HBCUs are able to serve as charter school authorizers.
00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:25.519
And so that means that the ability to open new schools, to hold schools accountable, but also when schools are not performing, to make sure that they are able to shift those students to schools that are going to serve them properly, that again is an ownership that belongs to us.
00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:47.599
And I believe as someone who has served as an authorizer, who has been directly connected to them to someone who was a member of a school's board, having HBCU alums who have a plethora of expertise from accounting to lawyers to people that understand any and everything around operations that can be helpful to infuse into the charter space.
00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:58.559
Well, I love this idea of really giving young people and young graduates seasoned, obviously experienced, but young, they're fresh, they're innovative, they're thinking about what's next to be on these boards.
00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:03.200
Ultimately, these schools are looking to create pathways to create young people just like those individuals.
00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:04.720
Hopefully they'll appear on those boards.
00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:05.519
Exactly.
00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:08.880
So I'm in school, I'm interested in what you're saying.
00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:12.880
I'm like, wow, I would love to have a college partnership.
00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:13.920
How do I start?
00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:14.400
Sure.
00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:19.359
So of course, NCC is working with uh school leaders that have expressed interest on their own.
00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:26.319
So the reason that this has started to have a groundswell is because there are people who've said, you know what, I see this opportunity.
00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:42.160
I've seen what has happened uh in Delaware, in DC, uh in Alabama, and I would like to take that opportunity myself, either to have a direct pipeline to create teacher uh prep programs or to think through what does it look like for me to expand to that campus.
00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:56.000
Uh that work is something that we, alongside UNCF and alongside alongside NAXA, the National Association for Charter School Authorizers, are truly focused on how do we make sure that we're all in alignment.
00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:59.359
So when the opportunities present themselves, we send them to the right pipeline.
00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:01.039
So I'm a comms person.
00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:04.799
And so I'm always thinking about how you reframe the message.
00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:21.200
So for anyone who may be skeptical or may have some uncertainty about charter schools or just unaware, this partnership brings a sense of familiarity and a sense of um ownership to the space.
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:24.720
You know, redefining, you know, what choice looks like.
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:29.839
Because even where you got you've got you've got education reform, and then sometimes you have choice.
00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:33.039
And you say choice and the conversation goes it goes sideways.
00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:33.599
That's right.
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:45.039
But when you really think about what does choice mean, it means giving that young scholar absolutely every opportunity possible to thrive, which includes this partnership you're talking about.
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:45.359
That's right.
00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:46.640
I like redefining choice.
00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:47.200
That's right.
00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:57.599
Just in as I said, with the uh the report that UNCF released uh in 2016, building better narratives of black education means that those are things that we can claim.
00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:10.000
Of course, how that is reframed and we see it every day in our political landscape, people will turn a word, a phrase, or a movement into what they want it to be to either project or to negate what is happening in that space.
00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:22.880
But if we have an understanding of our goal, our North Star is to make sure that more students have the opportunity to pursue higher ed and career, we can navigate that ourselves in the current conditions.
00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:31.359
I think it's really important to understand that this current administration and administration administrations before have been able to shift and talk about this work.
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:34.400
But what is it that we know to be true about us and what we can do?
00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:35.519
We are resilient.
00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:39.279
We are committed to what it means to have excellence.
00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:41.119
And it shows up in many forms.
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:49.279
But what I know to be true is that there are people who have been doing this work, putting their heads down and making things happen for students across this country.
00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:58.799
If we are able to replicate that, to grow that and amplify that, that is something that we continue to manage, continue to own, and that can continue to thrive.
00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:00.559
What do you hope for next?
00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:04.319
What is your tenacious hope for public education?
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:20.160
That we return to and have a renaissance of the responsibility that the community has for the outcomes of black students and making sure that we are doing that by not only being involved, but reclaiming ownership of what that means.
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:21.680
This is a phenomenal conversation.
00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:23.279
And I'm excited to continue the conversation.
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:24.240
Really quickly.
00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:28.559
So you talked about Alabama, you talked about, of course, DC and Howard.
00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:32.319
Are there any new partnerships on the horizon that you want to share?
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:32.960
Absolutely.
00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:37.200
So there's a school that was founded in Indianapolis by an HBCU graduate.
00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:42.559
Uh that school uh is in partnership with Harrisowe in that that region.
00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:47.759
And so Believe Schools, those schools have expanded to outside of the Indianapolis area.
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:51.440
And what does that look like to directly partner with an HBCU?
00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:57.920
And so that relationship between Harris Town State University and Believe Schools is an example of what's possible.
00:22:58.240 --> 00:22:58.559
Okay.
00:22:58.720 --> 00:22:59.759
Well, this is phenomenal.
00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:01.839
I listen, we are cheering you on.
00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:04.319
Of course, you know friendship is a huge supporter.
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:06.559
I really believe in this partnership.
00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:08.720
You know, we call this series the blueprint.
00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:11.920
There was a blueprint, and you constantly build on it.
00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:15.039
So I see the work that you're doing as part of the collaborative.
00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:24.240
That is really expanding and refining and strengthening this blueprint, which I believe should be the anchor of exceptional education for all.
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:25.519
Thank you for your leadership.
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:26.559
Thank you so much, King.
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:28.400
I have so many more questions, but you'll be back.
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:28.960
Absolutely.
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:30.319
All right, and we're going to keep talking.
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:31.680
Thank you so much for the opportunity.
00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:32.720
Until next time.
00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:33.279
Thank you.
