Graham Williams

WEBVTT
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.000
If you believe in protecting and supporting Austin's live music scene and our culture, we invite you to get involved at Red River Culturaldistrict.org.
00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:10.640
Your support helps keep the music alive.
00:00:11.199 --> 00:00:14.640
From Austin, Texas, you're listening to the Red River Podcast.
00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:17.760
Stories of music, culture, and community.
00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:22.399
Exploring the legacy and lore of Red River Street in downtown Austin.
00:00:22.879 --> 00:00:29.280
Can you start by just introducing yourself and telling me about what your connection to Red River Street is?
00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:30.559
My name is Graham.
00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:32.079
I'm a promoter.
00:00:32.399 --> 00:00:40.880
I own a company called Resound Presents that does uh shows in Austin, Central Texas, all over Texas, but mostly Central.
00:00:41.119 --> 00:00:43.520
We own Mohawk on Red River.
00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:51.920
We have a room on North Campus called 29th Street Ballroom, and we book shows all over town, a lot of them downtown in the Red River area.
00:00:52.159 --> 00:01:00.399
Before the COVID shutdown, I had a company called Margin Walker, which was sort of the same thing, same people, same group, doing a lot of the same stuff.
00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:12.640
Previous to that, I had a company called Transmission that did similar stuff, as well as a festival Bob Fun Fum Fun Fest, that sadly went away 2016, I think.
00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:14.319
Um, but ran for about 10 years.
00:01:14.400 --> 00:01:18.000
And it started on Red River at Waterloo Park originally.
00:01:18.159 --> 00:01:28.799
I also booked Emo's for, booked and managed it for nine or ten years uh in the late 90s to mid to late aughts.
00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:32.319
Uh emos at the time was on the corner of Six and Red River.
00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:39.280
It was sort of the heartbeat venue, like one of the first larger venues that uh lasted a long time in that area.
00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:44.239
So uh a lot of venues opened around that as it succeeded and grew.
00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:45.920
And I was heavily involved with that venue.
00:01:46.000 --> 00:02:00.560
And then as a fan, I would go to Red River to see shows in middle school and high school to emos and the cavity and various places up and down the street that hosted music, Chances, Kilimanjaro, Atomic Cafe, Cave Club before that, I think.
00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:02.799
Yeah, the it's Elysium now.
00:02:03.040 --> 00:02:09.840
Um so even when it was kind of a small little dotted music area, I would go to see bands there a lot growing up.
00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:17.280
So yeah, I've just been on and off that street for better or for worse for you know last three or plus decades.
00:02:17.759 --> 00:02:18.319
Definitely.
00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:25.520
Well well, tell me about like you know, talking about going back to middle school and doing uh going to see shows then.
00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:29.759
Um what was what was Red River like at that point?
00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:34.319
Red River was kind of desolate.
00:02:34.719 --> 00:02:42.560
Um I was gonna say it was rough and rocky and sketchy, but I feel like it got sketchier later, but maybe I just wasn't there as much.
00:02:42.719 --> 00:02:47.680
Like I feel like the kind of drug explosion maybe was a smidge later than this, but I could be wrong.
00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:50.159
But it was definitely a uh an offshoot.
00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:52.400
Like Sixth Street was the party zone.
00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:55.199
Uh Red River did not have that many venues.
00:02:55.360 --> 00:03:01.280
I mean, you had emo's right there on the corner, um, and it was brand new when I was in middle school.
00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:08.080
You had Cavity half a block down, which was a real divey, divey, divey um little punk club.
00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:09.439
I went to a ton of shows there.
00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:18.560
Blue Flamingo on the corner, and then around the corner there was Ohm's or something, this rave dance club, which I think maybe became Barracuda, might be the same building.
00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:26.800
But once you crossed the street, other than Chances, which changed to Club Deville and is now Chew up Charlie's, uh, even that was kind of isolated.
00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:31.120
You had a parking garage, you had Stubbs had not opened yet, I don't think.
00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:32.319
Definitely had not.
00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:34.240
I don't even know what Stubbs was.
00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:36.400
Then there was a there's condos there now.
00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:41.919
There was an ice place, ready ice, across from Mohawk, where they made all the ice that got delivered all of over six years.
00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:43.520
There's a warehouse for ice.
00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:45.120
Uh Mohawk wasn't there.
00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:51.439
There was a small club in the building that is the main building of Mohawk called Caucus Club that changed names a bunch of times.
00:03:51.599 --> 00:04:08.400
Um, so there were a few little bars, but there were still literally like old used junk shops and pawn shops and uh and then closed buildings and warehouses, parking garages, parking lots, a few city and state buildings when you got closer to that area, closer to the Capitol.
00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:10.719
Um, but there wasn't a ton on Red River.
00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:32.959
But there were because it was cheap and it was an offshoot, I feel like more like DIY kind of indie type venue owners and bar owners were opening stuff that was cheap because they were like, well, we're not trying to appeal to kind of the bougie bar crowd with something that looks like you're an Acapuco or something like the other sixth-street kind of frat crowd would be into.
00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:36.879
They were like, we're just looking to have a dive bar or a club where bands can play.
00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:50.480
So it tended to be kind of pub clubs and some of the gay venues were on that street, um, where it was more about the environment and the hang or the hang and the what the output was as opposed to like the decorations and stuff.
00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:55.199
So it was definitely more uh, you know, laid back.
00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:57.040
Yeah, for sure.
00:04:57.199 --> 00:05:02.800
Um, so who are some of the bands that you're going to see when you were still kind of an underage kid hanging out down there?
00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:05.519
Well, I mean, I went to like Irwin Center when I was a kid.
00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:06.399
That was on Red River.
00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:14.319
So yeah, my first shows were Motley Crew, Iron Maiden, uh, all on Red River at the Frank Irwin Center, um, technically.
00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:17.199
Uh, but when I started going seeing clubs, I would go to Liberty Lives.
00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:18.639
That was the big like 1200 cap.
00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:23.839
So you'd go see like Fugazi and the Dead Beltman or Bad Mother Goose, the local bands like that.
00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:25.920
And those were like bigger shows there.
00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:32.240
But when I started like finding out about smaller places, you could see like local bands or touring shows through like the scene and everything.
00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:33.759
Most of those were on Red River.
00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:36.480
And there were a few satellite venues, you know, floating around.
00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:42.319
But what was opening at that time in like the early 90s were on that street.
00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:47.199
Cavity was didn't have a bar, it was all ages.
00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:49.120
Um, probably shouldn't have been.
00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:50.800
Had a skate ramp in the back.
00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:58.639
You entered through the alley, but I saw a lot of local bands in tent, minority, poor violent people, local band.
00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:01.199
All the local like bands that played all the time.
00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:03.360
Brothers Cup was like a rap group.
00:06:03.519 --> 00:06:05.839
There was that Scott band that gals panic.
00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:15.600
I mean, all the like weird, drug y, like Buddle Surfers-y influence bands like Squat Thrust and Pork and uh Pocket Fisherman, Corn Pone.
00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:23.040
I'm trying to think all the like weird drug bands with bestiality videos on stage while you're you're in middle school watching this band.
00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:30.319
Like, oh uh those were like the local bands that played there all the time, Stretford, all those bands.
00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:48.399
Um I was more into like hardcore and punk, so like some of the stuff that was a little more garagey and yeah, and like old school, maybe I wasn't as into because I was you know a kid, so I was kind of into aggressive fun stuff, and then stuff that was a little bit like cleaner maybe sounded didn't appeal to me as much.
00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:55.199
I'd still watch those bands, but like I feel like I was usually trying to find the weird what seemed dangerous to a you know a 13, 14-year-old.
00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:57.120
But I did see a good amount of touring shows.
00:06:57.199 --> 00:06:58.720
I saw Green Day there once.
00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:03.040
I did not go to the Gigi Allen show, but I remember it in school the next day.
00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:04.000
A couple of kids went.
00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:05.519
Like, dude, it's crazy.
00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:06.879
There was shit everywhere.
00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:12.959
But yeah, I got to see a lot of stuff at the cavity, and then like emos opened around that same time that I was going there.
00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:25.759
I remember walking by, it must have been the first week in emo's was open because I went to emos with my older sister to see to see Killdozer with cherubs and poor dumb bastards opening.
00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:34.959
It was like a famous Kozick poster, like it had the the pig with the knife, you know, bleeding, smiling, uh the cartoon, which he reused a million times.
00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:38.079
It was on lighters in the mall, like you could get that little image everywhere.
00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:41.040
But I believe that was the first time he used the post used it on a poster.
00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:46.000
Um, but and but that was like kind of being promoted as emo's like opening show.
00:07:46.160 --> 00:08:15.199
They had they had open for South by with like dust on the floor, sawdust on the floor, open when they weren't ready to be opened, and then closed, and then opened, opened, and that was kind of promoted as like come to emo's, but they had technically opened before that, and I think I walked by when to go into the cavity because uh I remember when I worked there on that ceiling, they had like uh what was the first weekend, which I think was like Jesus Christ Superfly and like Rockbusters Two Nights, like Saturday, Friday Saturday.
00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:22.480
I remember the red flyer stapled at the ceiling that was like Rockbuster Squat Thrust, Jesus Christ Superfly is somebody, something like that.
00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:28.720
It must have been that because I don't know if Killdozer was like the big show that I happened to go to, I didn't even know who those bands were.
00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:32.480
I just went because I was a kid and I heard there'd be slam dancing.
00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:44.720
And but I remember walking by it the week before, there was like an entrance on the small stage, the door, and then to the left, there's like an old wooden garage door from when it was a garage, which is we had painted over and wood over when I worked there.
00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:52.080
But when I was a kid, I remember it was like a, you know, like chicken wire, and you could just see through it, and you could hear through it.
00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:55.840
Like you could watch from behind the drummer and guitarist and see the crowd.
00:08:56.080 --> 00:09:02.399
And there's just people crowd surfing and stage diving, and this it was so crowded, and you could feel the heat coming through the wire.
00:09:02.559 --> 00:09:04.639
I was like, we gotta go here next week.
00:09:04.799 --> 00:09:07.200
I don't care who's playing, we're gonna go to this this place.
00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:09.679
But it was on the small room, it wasn't on the big stage.
00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:15.600
Uh, I went to chances a couple of times because my aunt, uh, her name was Laura Williams, was the booker there.
00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:19.440
So I'd seen her band and a few other bands there too, but not a lot.
00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:25.600
That was a lot definitely like a it was a lesbian bar, but the uh the music there was definitely more, you know.
00:09:25.759 --> 00:09:30.639
I don't I feel like Austin at that time had a lot of these like re-my sort of bands.
00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:42.480
It was like a lot of Buddle service-y bands and a lot of like REM-y sort of like punk adjacent or in early version of indie kind of alternative singing sort of glass eye bands like that.
00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:44.080
I feel like that was a big thing.
00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:45.440
That sound was big in Austin.
00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:48.320
I feel like a lot of that was at chances, you know.
00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:53.600
So like as a young kid, I was trying to find like the fast stuff that sounded like black flag or something.
00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:56.639
Anyway, those were things I saw up and down Red River at that time.
00:09:56.879 --> 00:09:59.360
Bufamingo, I feel like maybe it was a few years later.
00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:03.759
I think it was a high school by the time Bufamingo opened and Cavity closed around then.
00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:08.159
I think Cavity was open my freshman year of high school because I I know I saw Green Day.
00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:12.879
I remember getting out of school and like rushing over, and they did like a day show.
00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:15.200
Uh, it was actually pretty cool.
00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:18.240
You know, people can talk shit about Green Day, but this was cool.
00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:19.679
They would play it back room.
00:10:19.759 --> 00:10:22.799
It wasn't all ages, so no bunch of skater kids couldn't get in.
00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:24.240
They're like, well, this is bullshit.
00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:26.480
I didn't even know backroom ever wasn't all ages.
00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:28.080
I guess it was 18 and up at one point.
00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:31.120
So they're like, Well, where's the best punk club?
00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:33.840
Uh, we'll play tomorrow if we can do a show.
00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:37.200
Again, or maybe someone there was like, hey, we we run the cabin, you want to come play tomorrow?
00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:37.919
I'm like, Yeah, sure.
00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:46.720
So they skipped their sound check in Dallas and they played in the afternoon, and they played first, and the local band played after, so they could get to Dallas in time to still make the show.
00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:49.440
Uh, and it was just like three or four bucks to get in.
00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:59.279
Um, but uh yeah, they did a second show just for everyone who couldn't get in, who was stuck in the parking lot, and you know, whatever made a couple hundred bucks and rushed up to so I thought that was very nice of them.
00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:00.879
Um, but that must have been freshman year.
00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:06.159
So they in fact cavity closed around that time, and then emo's, which wasn't always all ages, it would go up and down.
00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:07.759
Sometimes I'd go in, I could get in.
00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:12.559
Sometimes I went all the way down there to see neurosis on the Souls at Zero Tour.
00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:14.240
And oh, 21 and up today.
00:11:14.559 --> 00:11:16.080
Like, how you fucking changed it?
00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:22.480
Because I don't know if it was a door person or if like they'd get popped for a minor drinking and it would be like, all right, we're not doing all ages anymore.
00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.799
And then they'd need to start doing it to pay a ban and be like, okay, fine, we'll start doing all ages.
00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:28.399
That was how I looked at it.
00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:32.720
Like, it kind of just depended on when they decided to change the rule.
00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:36.080
Uh you'd have to ask Gimo his theory on the first few years.
00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:41.679
But um, by the time I worked there, it was always all ages, but uh just two different price structures.
00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:47.840
It was like two or three dollars for 21 plus and five or six dollars for minors, or something like that.
00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:54.399
Um, but at that time it was free if you were over 21, and like three or four bucks if you were under 21.
00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:59.279
Uh, and sometimes under 21 meant 18 to 21, sometimes it meant all ages.
00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:01.679
Uh, and so I never knew until I got there.
00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:04.399
But as I got older, Cavity had closed.
00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:07.519
But I did go to Kilmanjaro a few times, mostly tour.
00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:16.960
I don't think uh I was in a band that played there once or twice, but uh I remember seeing like a few touring shows at one of those iterations of that or Atomic Cafe.
00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:22.960
Like I saw Subhumans there once, I saw Drop Kit Murphy's and The Dusiness there once.
00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:26.000
Um a few touring shows, but they didn't get near it.
00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:30.399
Like emos got all the good shows, so that was kind of like if emos was booked, it would end up there.
00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:32.320
I think I saw a veil there, maybe.
00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:33.360
I don't know.
00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:36.960
Um, it was all ages, so we they would let us book shows there.
00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:40.879
Uh and then Blue Flamingo was not all ages.
00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:43.360
So I honestly I barely ever went to them.
00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:48.000
I mean for Blue Flamingo to a lot of people, that's like their their college, you know?
00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:48.240
Yeah.
00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:50.000
I walked by it a thousand times.
00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:56.080
I can only remember ever out of the thousands of shows I went to in high school, I think I only went there twice.
00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:00.559
And it was they did some all ages shows early before like the bar was open.
00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:07.279
And since at the time it was like a trans bar, so it was some nights it wasn't even bunk shows, it was like you know, meetup night.
00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:09.440
So you'd be like, all right, kids, get the fuck out.
00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:15.360
I remember going there once to see Los Cudos, this amazing Chicago hardcore band that I loved.
00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:17.200
And we were like, for sure that's all ages.
00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:18.480
That band would never play.
00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:25.279
And we get there and it's not, and this like a hundred kids outside, uh, and they're they're like, Well, fuck, we don't want to play.
00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:41.519
I think maybe Toby or someone from the Motard set it up, even though they were like opposite bands, they had played together once, and I had like a little bit of a friendship, and they're like, Oh, we'll get you a show, but not knowing kind of maybe the more like DIY punks team, it was like, Oh, yeah, we'll pick you up this bar that we always play at.
00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:48.480
And they were like, Oh, well, that's cool, but we only do all these other they never communicated that, so they were like, Well, we don't want to play.
00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:52.000
And I remember I was like, Oh, well, my parents are out of town.
00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:57.039
Uh, and so I like wrote down my address and a little map on the back of a bunch of napkins.
00:13:57.120 --> 00:14:09.759
They handed it out to everyone out front, and like rushed to my house, set up our little Vogue practice PA from our crappy band um in the living room, moved all our stuff, and uh everyone drove and love girls played in my living room.
00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:26.000
Uh, and uh it's funny because uh apparently my grandpa stopped by that night to drop off my parents' dog he was watching, and saw there was a what he thought was a party, but he didn't want to be a shitty grandpa, so he like put the dog in the backyard and left.
00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:35.600
But he did tell my dad, hey, Graham had a party, just so you know, I saw a ton of cars there, there's a music blast, and I didn't want to make it awkward, so I didn't break it up, but just thought you should know.
00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:38.799
And so my dad called me like for and explained.
00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:39.919
He was actually super forgiving.
00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:42.080
Like, it was a band, they were on tour, they needed gas money.
00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:44.399
We just we were in and out, we cleaned everything up.
00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:45.840
He was like, All right.
00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:56.320
Um, oh, but I remember Raised Against the Machine had a video around that time where Zach Dale Roach had a Los Crudo shirt on.
00:14:56.399 --> 00:14:58.480
Uh and I remember it was on in the background.
00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:01.360
I was like, Oh, dad, that's that band that played in this the house.
00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:02.720
And he was like, Oh, really?
00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:06.320
And so for like years my dad thought Raising the Machine played in our house.
00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:08.960
Uh oh yeah, they played a house show before they were big.
00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:10.159
Then I said our grandma had.
00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:12.879
But Emo's definitely became like the go-to.
00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:21.120
Like uh um, there were a few other places, like Flamingo Cantino is a reggae club, sort of right off Red River by like a couple doors.
00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:24.960
Uh, would let people rent it out, like pay club costs and do punk shows.
00:15:25.039 --> 00:15:30.240
So I put on like a bunch of shows there and set and played shows there and went and saw bands there.
00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:35.600
And so they were just filling the off nights, and they definitely weren't booking that stuff in-house.
00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:40.559
Um, but really, Emo's just became the heartbeat, not just for me, but for everyone I knew.
00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:46.879
Like that's where you went to see all your favorite touring bands because it was like it had a big stage.
00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:51.360
It wasn't quite Liberty Lunch, but it was one step down in terms of size.
00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:53.919
So, like the big stage there was like a big stage.
00:15:54.000 --> 00:16:05.120
You would go see all or you know, fucking whoever, like like the big touring bands that were quite big enough to do the 1200 cap room would all play there.
00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:10.879
Um, and the shows were always insanely crowded because again, it was free to get in or two bucks.
00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:21.840
So, you know, for adults because they paid bands out of the bar, you know, that the idea that like Hell Seven's playing it's free to get in, and they're making good money because the bar is just printing dollars.
00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:27.759
Um, it made it like a home for adults, like drinking people for sure.
00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:49.519
Like it was definitely like a bar crowd, very different from the cavity or even blue flamingo a little bit, in that it was like kind of an older, like you know, I can't quite explain it what it the vibe was, but it was yeah, kind of a like a biker adjacent, but not bikers, you a lot of neck tattoos, a lot of crunchy cowboy hats and flaming dice.
00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:52.720
If there were dice, they had flames.
00:16:53.279 --> 00:17:01.120
Uh and that look was very like this this place is like I feel like everyone was kind of big to me.
00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:02.320
Maybe it's just because I was younger.
00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:09.279
All these like burly dudes and like strippers hung out there and everyone had tattoos, but everyone seemed big.
00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:12.880
I'm like, are these all like ex-football players that got into punk?
00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:14.400
Like, uh why is everyone so tall?
00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:16.400
Uh again, maybe I was just small.
00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:22.480
Uh meanwhile, like down at Cavity, everyone like was emanciated and hadn't eaten.
00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:32.160
And then at Blue Flamingo, everyone with like college kids with you know tight clothes and white belts, or or like scummy, like you know, garage rock kids.
00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:38.799
Everyone felt so little, even though a lot of those bands played emos, emos the people who hung out there just seemed like kind of burly.
00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:46.079
But that was great because again, it was all the best touring shows were playing there, but then all the best local bands were playing there too.
00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:47.920
So like everyone was rotating in.
00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:58.559
Local bands are playing the the co-op on campus, and then the DIY club, and then the whatever random bar on six that let someone put on a cool show, and then playing emos two weeks later.
00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:00.480
So, like everyone rotated in.
00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:04.000
So uh I feel like I went there, unless it was like a big tour.
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:05.519
I feel like I went there a lot.
00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:13.440
So um throughout high school, I would say in the 90s, that became like the spot to see most of what I saw.
00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:16.559
I mean, like there are certain bands I must have seen.
00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:22.480
I think I saw Quicksand and Seaweed each and one time together, like five times in high school at Emo's.
00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:23.920
Like I swear they played so much.
00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:28.559
Like certain bands were just every six months or a year came through on on tour.
00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:30.480
So there was just a lot happening there.
00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:38.400
So when I got a little bit old, and I would I booked shows as a hobby and mostly VFW halls and recreation centers and stuff.
00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:45.920
Um, but eventually I uh got a job at Emos because I put on shows and I played in bands, and sometimes I would do shows there.
00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:57.039
And I think I remember I had like a I was friends with that man, Hate Breed, and they were playing a day party at South by and were like, hey, can you help us spread the word?
00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:02.240
And so like I think maybe Victory Records covered me making flyers for it or something.
00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:04.319
I was like, Yeah, sure, I have flyer shows anyway.
00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:06.640
So I remember making a flyer for it.
00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:12.000
Uh them and today is the day and brutal truth is grinding core band.
00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:14.400
Somebody else.
00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:19.680
Uh it was like Relapse Records and Victory Records together or something.
00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:22.079
You know, South by would have those parties in the day.
00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:22.319
Yeah.
00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:27.759
And I remember I was handing out flyers, and I I didn't know Margaret at the time, but she was like, Man, thank you for doing that.
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:29.599
I was like, Oh yeah, I'm friends with the bands.
00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:33.359
They were just asking for a favor that kind of helped spread the word to like hardcore kids.
00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:35.599
And she was like, You can get him free here whenever you want.
00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:42.000
And at the time I was not 21, so I was like, Oh man, I don't have to pay to fucking go to this is like a gold mine opportunity.
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:52.559
And then, like around the time my friend Cody, who works for Levitation Fest now and used to run Emo, uh, used to run Mohawk, um, was like, Hey, I got a job at Emo's.
00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:56.400
Like, uh, we were he was friends with this girl who dated one of the managers.
00:19:56.559 --> 00:19:58.160
She lived in the apartment above him.
00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:01.119
He was like, uh, they're gonna pay me to work the door there.
00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:03.200
They need security people that don't do drugs.
00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:04.559
We were all straight edge at the time.
00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:09.359
So he was like, uh, yeah, they just need sober people, you know, breaking up fights.
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:11.680
I'm like, oh, you get paid to work at the club.
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:13.200
That was like mind-blowing to me.
00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:16.960
And then like a week later, he was like, Guys, they said they need more people like me.
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:18.960
I said, All my friends are sober.
00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:22.160
Uh they all work have worked shows for as a hobby.
00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:25.359
And so we all got jobs through Cody like a week later.
00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:27.119
Just Cody, uh Cody Coward.
00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:29.839
Yeah, he used to run the Red River Culture Manager, actually.
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:36.480
Um, and so me, Mike Sanchez, your one's little darling, um, Hu Shang, he's the security manager at Mohawk.
00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:48.960
They're all still us three, all got jobs like a week later through Cody, and uh, we were all just fairly big guys that didn't drink or do drugs, um just stamping hands.
00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:53.039
So it was good for Emo to have more people like that, I think, on the staff.
00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:54.720
Um, and for us, it was like great.
00:20:54.880 --> 00:21:01.440
But at timing was I remember being like, I just got that hookup from Margaret to get him free, and now I work here, I get him free anyway.
00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:02.400
It felt like such a waste.
00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:18.160
Like, I wish I had gotten that dumb flyers years before because I got gotten free to shows, but um, but yeah, so when I started working there, I worked security and worked the door, and I stage manages, uh stage managed for a while, and then uh I actually left.
00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:20.480
I did shows there once in a while as a hobby.
00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:37.519
Like I worked there, so like Mike Flannery had started booking at that time shortly after that, and uh Margaret was leaving, and then I uh uh yeah, just felt like if there's a date on the calendar, and I there I know a band coming through that needs a show, I'd I'd throw something on the calendar, but it was just as a hobby.
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:48.160
And then I quit for a while, and then uh Flannery left, and um Jim Strayed Edge used to work there, if you know Jim.
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:50.240
So he worked there for years.
00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:53.119
He's he's older, he was like friends with Kambala and all them.
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:55.920
Oh, he was from that era, like early 80s Austin era.
00:21:56.319 --> 00:21:59.759
Uh he uh my wife used to work at Forbidden.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:08.400
Fruit when they used to have one downtown, and uh he came by to say hi to her one day when he was working, and he was like, Hey man, that they just had to let Flandry go.
00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:12.160
Like, uh, I just suggested they just hire Graham because he books shows.
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:17.359
She was like, Oh, and I could ask him, and so they called me and were like, You want to come back?
00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:21.119
That you can book this, you don't have to clean toilets, you have to break up fights.
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:25.200
I was like, So the hobby I do, you'll pay me to do the hobby.
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:27.839
Um, then yeah, that sounds great.
00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:35.920
If I could get paid to do the fun part, uh, not that it was that fun, but yeah, booking shows was definitely like the thing I did, then that seemed easy.
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:41.920
So yeah, I started working there booking shows just as a as a thing to do, and and it worked out.
00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:43.680
And that was like college for me.
00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:48.400
I learned how to do everything very chaotically.
00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:51.519
Uh Margaret came back when Flannery was gone.
00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:55.200
They asked emo paid her to just like spend a week showing Graham what to do.
00:22:55.279 --> 00:23:02.960
And it was like, here's a calendar, uh, paper calendar, here's a phone line with a one and two line.
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:04.960
There's two lines hooked up to it.
00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:09.119
Uh, here's paper, pencil, white out.
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:22.000
Pick up the phone in the morning, listen to all the messages, write them all down, call everyone back, local bands that need a show, if agents need a hold for a Victorian band, and just call everyone back one at a time, and uh, and then answer phones.
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:27.920
And if if someone calls on the other line, put them on hold and switch over and put them on hold and go back and finish the call and then go back.
00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:30.240
And that was all I did all day was just answer these phones.
00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:33.920
And then if someone wanted a show, I would write it in pencil on the calendar.
00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:36.319
If they confirmed, I would write it in ink.
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:42.640
And if they canceled, I would wipe out over the ink, blow on it, and then I had a free calendar.
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:47.599
Uh and then emo would take that each week to go make the chronicle ad and be like, if it's in ink, it's confirmed.
00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:48.960
He would just look at the next two weeks.
00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:51.519
Anything in ink, he would just send it off.
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:52.640
So yeah, that was it.
00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:58.480
Oh yeah, and then offers were just like piece of paper faxed, faxed it to William Morris or whatever.
00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:02.960
And then they'd fax it back confirmed with a contract, and we'd fill it out.
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:05.599
And yeah, it was very crash course.
00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:09.359
Uh oh, yeah, and then Margaret gave me a box of demos and was like, here, listen to all these.
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:11.519
And uh, oh, that was the worst.
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:14.880
Uh the thousands of demos or hundreds maybe.
00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:17.759
Um I remember taking it really seriously the first week.
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:24.160
Like I wrote down like this band's got kind of a similar, you know, definitely Smash and Pumpkins fans, but more of a shoe gaze like my buddy Valentine.
00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:32.079
I do have like a pair, two paragraphs about what a band sounded like, who their influences might have been, phone numbers, and then like a month in, it's like funk band.
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:35.920
Like I like I didn't I just needed to know what they sounded like.
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:42.880
So when they called me, oh right, yes, you'd fit with this band, as opposed to like really digesting like everyone's art.
00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:45.599
Um, but yeah, so that's what I did.
00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:47.119
And I again I just kind of figured it out.
00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:50.480
And honestly, like emo's was legendary, but it was not well run.
00:24:50.559 --> 00:24:55.759
It was like, you know, it was there was no cavity, but it was also not Liberty Line.
00:24:55.839 --> 00:25:00.079
So like our contracts were just like bands get the door after Cop Cost.
00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:04.319
We didn't pay taxes, licensing, BMI, any of the stuff you're supposed to pay.
00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:09.359
It was just like, here's the cash at the door, and here's enough for the sound person and some door people.
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:16.880
And then bands writers were like, Oh, we don't do that, but you can have drink tickets and here's some cash for food.
00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:20.480
And they're like, Okay, no hospitality, but you know, whatever.
00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:24.000
So it was like it was very like no merch percentages, you know.
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:34.079
Some of that stuff has stuck around, but a lot of it was very like what like a small bar would do, like, hey, there's a stage on the corner, go have some fun, hey, collect some cash beneath the door.
00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:35.440
Here you go, but thanks for playing.
00:25:35.599 --> 00:25:46.960
But there's a thousand people there, and you're like, Well, this is these bands are like used to having a professional setup and a settlement sheet, and like, you know, you're supposed to pay taxes on this money, like it was so DIY.
00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:49.519
Um, but no one had ever bothered to update the system.
00:25:49.680 --> 00:26:01.039
And emo was kind of phasing out his role and selling it off a couple years later after I started, and yeah, at that point it was like uh it was like a whole whole new ball game.
00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:06.880
We started doing tickets and having to redo how we did offers, and we never did guarantees before, it was always just ordeals.
00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:15.279
Then it was like, well, we're losing shows to the back room that doesn't even do punk and starting to do punk stuff to fill our calendar because metal's kind of drying up at the time.
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:23.039
Uh, then you had this new place, Stubbs, that's trying to do shows and take bands that we were developing, and and the bands weren't even asking for that much money.
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:31.759
But like in the beginning, I'd lose the bad brains or the specials or like legendary bands because they would want some small amount of money, but it would require us charging ten dollars.
00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:35.039
And it was like, we have a strict rule, it's two bucks to get in.
00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:37.920
I remember Kid Rock played on the small stage, it was two dollars.
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:40.640
Plannery booked that show is when I still work the door.
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:46.160
Uh, but yeah, those bands would just play for two bucks and uh like 10% of the bar or something.
00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:49.519
Um and it's not like oh, it was the olden times.
00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:51.920
Uh, we eventually just had to catch up.
00:26:52.079 --> 00:27:01.759
And and I will say, once there was like a different owner, a different staff, we were able to say, okay, well, let's just redo how we're doing it and like start trying to do things the way other businesses do it.
00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:07.440
And uh yeah, eventually kind of figured it out and yeah, took it with me when I left.
00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:18.079
And then when I left Ema's uh, I still was working on Red River, and that my partnership was with Mohawk, which was a new club down the street, um, that I never thought would survive.
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:23.119
Uh when I first opened, I was like club's been like 10 things in the last year.
00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:27.440
I I can't imagine it's gonna work, but it's a great venue still.
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:52.000
Um yeah, so I just kept doing shows open on the street when I left and then started my own company, and we started a festival that took place on the street, and then uh yeah, just kind of went from there and like Red Rivers continued to grow around us and with us, and I'm sure we've been a big part of that, but uh you know, we're also lucky to have it, so yeah, it's it's interesting having been there in kind of some of the semi-early days.
00:27:52.079 --> 00:28:03.119
I mean, there was plenty happening before I was, but I did I definitely watched like the spike from when it was like scrappy to when it became like a strip that's actually has a designation with the city.
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:08.400
Like, um, but you know, I've heard well before I was around Frostborn.
00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:13.839
Like, I remember a friend of mine's a huge elevators fan and was like, Oh, I read this book, and he had looked up the address.
00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:17.279
He was the first 13 floor elevator show ever was on Red River.
00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:30.880
That's a cool little I was like, I had no idea, but like there was shit happening there in the 60s and 70s, like before I was even around, and like kind of building like this what would become this like vital like music scene and music strip.
00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:46.319
When you talk about the 13th floor elevators, I think a lot of that um uh and just looking at the history of Red River, especially if you're talking about everything north of like 11th, 12th Street, that all got raised uh during urban renewal.
00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:50.880
So yeah, there was a lot of stuff on Red River going over to San Jacinto.
00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:51.279
Yeah.
00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:53.039
Uh like the Jade Room.
00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:57.039
I think the the uh Club Saracen is another place that I've heard a lot about.
00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:00.480
Talking about the Mohawk, old old building with its own history.
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:04.240
You talked about it being kind of a like like a cursed location.
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:05.680
There had been 10 different things.
00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:08.880
What why did the Mohawk succeed where these other clubs didn't?
00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:10.079
Probably a few things.
00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:12.559
Like originally it was a Mexican restaurant.
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:26.480
There's old photos of it where it was like same exact building, the tall little two-story building where this where the bar is, same exact stretched around raised area where bands people look down on, same bricks with the holes in them, like all that's the same.
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:29.599
The where the bands play now was the parking lot.
00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:39.839
So you'll see old pictures of like whatever the restaurant was called, where um there's there was seating up there, and then you'll see even older pictures when it was a different restaurant, and that was all parking.
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:43.119
It's all like 1960s cars in it.
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:47.200
Um, so there's some postcards and stuff floating around, but it it's pretty neat.
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:48.640
Um, so it was that forever.
00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:52.559
And then I don't know when it became Caucus Club, but it's earlier than I thought.
00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:55.519
Like I remember looking something up about it, and or someone sent me an article.
00:29:55.599 --> 00:30:06.640
It was talking about the caucus club, and the guy who owned it was like a former UT football star, super tall guy, but kind of like dangerous, like some crazy stories about him like doing some crime shit.
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:10.400
Like uh, but he was this big dude, and and he ran the caucus club.
00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:18.480
I thought caucus club, I thought of it as like a 90s hangout, but this was kind of further back, like maybe 70s, even like it had been there for quite a while.
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:22.799
Um, so I think that guy had it for longer than I realized.
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:28.000
And so I remember when it was Caucus Club, and then they also had that bar upstairs, it was called Hot Freaks or something like that.
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:28.720
Oh, yeah.
00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:36.640
Uh, because there was a party at South Bike called Hot Freaks that was named after the bar that I didn't even know existed, that was, I guess, upstairs, like in the green room.
00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:54.480
And then when I was at Emo's, I remember it was like Le Privilege for a while with all the just a cocaine bar uh with an arrogant name, like Le Prevelage, like French, and it's for the privilege, like just crazy that someone thought it was a good idea.
00:30:54.720 --> 00:30:58.559
Uh, and then, but I knew some people who were involved, like work there, book shows there.
00:30:58.720 --> 00:31:00.160
It was like, so there were some people going there.
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:14.720
Then it was Velvet Spade for a while, which was just like again, there were people just trying to take their hand at Club Oni, which happens all the time in every town, but especially in Austin, like six streets happening, we're gonna open a bar, live music's happening, we're gonna open a venue.
00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:19.519
Like someone was just trying to be a bar owner, and or someone sketchy was hiding money.
00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:26.480
There's a that happens too downtown where you're like, I've never seen anyone at this random hookah bar, yet it's still open.
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:28.480
Like, this is some money laundering shit.
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:29.680
Like, there's no way.
00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:31.839
Um, that could have been that, I don't know.
00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:37.839
I think it was just like people trying to do a thing that they didn't know how to do and eventually ran out of business went out of business because of it.
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:41.200
Um, but Moody, who still is one of the ownership.
00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:41.920
James Mohawk.
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:49.680
Yeah, James Moody, uh, who owns Mohawk, him, he was like, I think working in real estate at the time.
00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:53.119
He does marketing, but he I think it was marketing for real estate at the time.
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:57.200
Before he had worked in like medicine or like sales for like a medical company.
00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:01.440
Um, but he had moved to Austin, uh, spent a bunch of time in Seattle.
00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:06.000
So we'd always go to Nemo's and see shows there and all the sub hop scene around that time.
00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:10.000
And he had he's from Louisiana, but he'd grew up in LA, going to like punk shows there.
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:12.640
So he was always like super into music, always going to like clubs.
00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:17.599
So when he came to Austin to work, just doing marketing with this real estate company, it was like he'd go to emos all the time.
00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:21.279
I was like, dude, we should open a club like this, what was like a little smaller.
00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:28.400
And you know, because it's real estate and he had some of his friends who were in the real estate world, they had some money and they were like, Well, yeah, we'll find something we'll invest if you can put it together.
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:34.000
So they bought that what used to be Velvet Spade and redid the stage outside.
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:36.240
It was just a little outdoor setup.
00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:41.519
They didn't have the roof deck or the second floor, it was just grounds, maybe 400 cap, maybe I would say.
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:49.200
Just the floor, the bar inside, little stage inside, which was positioned differently, and uh a little uncovered outdoor stage.
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:55.039
You could see through the fence, like they put like plastic in it to try and like make it where you couldn't watch in from the outside.
00:32:55.279 --> 00:33:00.079
I think you could still see from that little raised area, but there was no way to go up any further.
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:03.519
It was just like a few, a dozen or so people could watch from up there.
00:33:03.759 --> 00:33:06.079
But uh yeah, they had like a few.
00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:13.680
There was like a guy from Dallas helping him out for a minute, and then Rosa, who we still work with, although she has like a day job and lives in San Antonio.
00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:14.799
But Rosa, it's Madrid.
00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:28.319
Madrid's yeah, Yosa Madrid uh was work started working there really early on on when I was still at Emo's, and she was at UT, worked at UT and just man, she managed White Denham and a couple of local bands, and so was just really putting her bands on.
00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:42.640
And she had a little promo thing that she did shows at Emo's every once in a while when I worked there, and she had started putting on local shows there with them, and I was like jealous, like, man, well, they have this really cool show that would have been at Emo's down the street.
00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:43.519
What what is this club?
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:54.240
I thought I had no idea this place would make it, and now they're getting like cool shows and sometimes local bands, but every once in a while there'd be like a cool touring band that would end up there, and it's like, what's up with that spot?
00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:55.920
Like, I did not see that coming.
00:33:56.000 --> 00:34:02.319
I just assumed it would burn, fall to the ground, and burn like every other uh failed attempt at that space.
00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:08.159
Yeah, I remember I got a call from an agent who was like, hey, it was this being Clinic from Scotland, I think.
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:09.039
They had a show.
00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:15.119
Emo's was booked, and I think they had gotten a little too big to play the small room, but weren't quite big enough to play the big room.
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:16.800
And the agent's like, do me a favor.
00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:23.119
I know you don't do shows outside of Emo's because your boss won't let you, but I I'm gonna have to go to another promoter.
00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:24.000
I'd rather just do it with you.
00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:26.800
Can you find somewhere to host this show that is the right size?
00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:34.320
Uh so I called around a couple of places and I hit them up and was like, hey, I'm just needing to find a home for these guys.
00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:40.079
And uh the tour ended up not happening, but Moody called me and was like, we should meet, we should talk.
00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:49.679
And they came and hit me up, him and his partner, and at the time Michael Tarazas, who owned uh Club Deville next door, and a couple other folks, hit me up and were like, You you want to come work for us?
00:34:49.840 --> 00:34:51.360
And I was like, Oh, appreciate it.
00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:52.880
It's kind of a lateral move at best.
00:34:52.960 --> 00:35:11.599
Yeah, I already book emos, so move booking another club doesn't I was like, but I have been going to LA and seeing Golden Boys and going to New York and seeing Bowie Presents and all these venue bookers that have more than one room, and I always hated booking a band as they got bigger why I'd just say bye and let them go to another place.
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:13.920
I want to keep working with these folks in different places.
00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:25.280
And if if we if you'd be interested in like doing multiple things and building like a little a group that could book multiple spaces, and I had just started fun fun fun with Halamo Draft House at the time.
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:28.800
Uh, I was like, I'd just start this festival, I'd like to grow that too.
00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:32.400
So if y'all want to like be part of something like that, I might be interested.
00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:39.440
And so we ended up starting a partnership doing that for a while, and uh yeah, that's how I ended up booking at Mohawk.
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:42.719
But uh it it that that was a big part of it.
00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:50.559
I mean, on their own, they had really great ideas, they really cared about the look and the feel, and like making artists feel you know taken care of.
00:35:50.719 --> 00:35:54.719
And that was like kind of their mission statement, and they did get a good job of that.
00:35:54.880 --> 00:36:03.679
And you know, Rosa had had her ear to the ground with all the local bands, and of course came to work for us when we started it, uh, and I just did the touring stuff and she did the local bands.
00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:31.360
But um, but I think uh me bringing like all the touring stuff to it kind of made it a spot that our touring artists could play as well, where before it had been like the cool local spot at the end of the street, and then it kind of took off then, and we just kept adding to it, you know, adding more capacity, adding a second story that you could see, you know, that that whole mezzanine up top that you could see the the stage from, and just taking it from like a a small patio stage to like a legit venue.
00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:36.239
Uh and yeah, now it's you know one of the best rooms in Austin, especially for that size.
00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:42.880
Uh, but yeah, it who knows where it would have been if it had gone a different direction, but it it kind of worked out perfectly.
00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:44.239
Yeah, definitely.
00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:52.559
When you when you move from being a talent buyer where you're working for somebody else to like now you're like you're you have a piece of the rock, you're in the company.
00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:54.480
What compelled you to do that?
00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:56.960
I don't I mean, I think it's a mix of things.
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:01.760
Anytime you're doing any one thing for a long time, it can start to burn out, even if it's something cool.
00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:05.119
I mean, great bands break up when they're just bored of playing the same songs.
00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:08.800
And I have been at Emo's almost a decade at that point.
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:13.840
Um it was changing, and I could kind of see the writing on the wall that it was gonna fall apart.
00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:20.000
Uh, the guy who bought it from Emo, who, in his defense, let us kind of run the club, which was cool.
00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:23.599
Like we could book all the bands we wanted and staff it and do our own thing.
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:25.599
Um, he wasn't like cool at all.
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:27.760
He was just a dude, you know, had enough money.
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:29.199
He was like a used car salesman.
00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:35.039
He had a couple of used car salvage yards uh in South Austin and had just invested in this place.
00:37:35.199 --> 00:37:37.840
Uh, but he was pretty hands-off when it came to that.
00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:38.880
That was nice.
00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:44.480
But then I we knew he was talking about trying to sell it and sell the building.
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:48.800
And he would always say, Oh, don't worry, guys, uh, when I sell it, I'm gonna tear it down.
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:55.119
We're gonna build like, you know, apartments and then like offices to like buffer for sound, and we're gonna rebuild it even better, emos.
00:37:55.280 --> 00:37:56.079
It's gonna be better than ever.
00:37:56.239 --> 00:37:57.519
And we're like, I don't know.
00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:03.440
I mean, this car salesman is gonna build a shunk club at the bottom of this nice condo.
00:38:03.519 --> 00:38:04.480
Uh, why?
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:07.360
And if someone writes him a check, he's what?
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:08.400
Why would he develop it?
00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:11.039
He's not a developer, he's gonna get the cash for the from the developer.
00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:13.280
Why would the developer commit to doing that?
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:16.719
And even if they would, why would he get to make that decision?
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:19.519
Like, like, wouldn't they be like, oh, shop bars will make more money?
00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:22.159
So I was like, uh, I don't think this is true.
00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:24.960
I think he just doesn't want people to start stealing from the bar.
00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:29.039
Like if he's just telling staff, don't worry, guys, you all are gonna be part of the future.
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:34.400
So uh yeah, I kind of felt the right, you know, heard the ride in a while, and I've been there a while, I was getting a little burnt.
00:38:34.639 --> 00:38:38.639
Um I just remember at some point it it was getting less interesting.
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:44.719
I don't I started Fun Fun the year before with the Alamo Draft House, and we did this cool festival, and it was very mine.
00:38:45.119 --> 00:39:00.000
And when I had traveled to Coachella and other festivals and seen other cities with like promoters that book shows in multiple places, it really had me thinking, like, how do I grow help grow the music scene and keep working with these artists if I'm in one place forever?
00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:05.760
Like, should I just be here or should I be bringing in more venues and emos be one of the rooms?
00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:07.039
And we we also book other clubs.
00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:12.400
Emo's presents, or maybe I'll start my own thing because Frank didn't have any interest in doing that, the owner.
00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:17.440
Um, so I've been thinking about it, and I do remember at some point I managed the club.
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:19.840
And at one point I was like, I can't book and manage it.
00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:20.719
I never sleep.
00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:22.559
Uh, we need to bring on a manager.
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:38.159
He brought on a guy who was managing for a while, wasn't the greatest manager, in my opinion, but he he brought on a lot of other staff, like general managers up to help him, which was good because they were good, but it also was like, I used to manage and book it, and now that one guy's got like three people under him.
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:43.440
Just felt like it was just like uh not well done, but it's like all right.
00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:46.079
Whatever y'all want to do, I'm just gonna keep booking the shows.
00:39:46.239 --> 00:39:54.960
And I remember one time I was like, uh my wife had opened this clothes uh uh Vintage Clothing Storm on South Congress called Prototype around that time, and I was helping her out at the store.
00:39:55.039 --> 00:40:04.159
I think I was watching watching the register while she did something, and I we had this big event that was like a camel cigarette sponsored event back when cigarette companies sponsored music events.
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:08.719
It was Kings of Leon, and it was uh it had something to do with ACL Fest.
00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:16.639
Like they had paid them to allow them to use an ACL artist for this Camel cigarettes free concert at Emo's and they were renting out the room.
00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:22.719
Um, I given all the details that I always give to the management and everyone to be there to show up for sound check and everything.
00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:26.159
And I get a call, and Frank the owner is freaking out.
00:40:26.239 --> 00:40:31.519
He's like, dude, fucking Bill didn't show up for work, the manager, and no one's here.
00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:45.039
He didn't schedule anybody, and the band is here screaming at me, and this British tour manager screaming at me, and there's buses here, and then Camel's screaming at me because they gotta load all this stuff in and set up camel cigarette branding everywhere, and like I'm behind a register.
00:40:45.119 --> 00:40:46.639
I'm like, you fucking kidding me?
00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:55.199
Like, okay, I hear I've I'm calling this dude on my cell phone, like and he's like, I'm sending my wife to go bang on his window to wake him up.
00:40:55.360 --> 00:40:56.639
Uh, I don't know what's going on.
00:40:56.719 --> 00:40:57.679
I'm so pissed at him.
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:00.239
I need you to come down here and say that fix this.
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:01.199
Like, I'd be here.
00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:03.440
Someone's gotta be here who knows how to run the club.
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:05.199
And I was just like, how is this still happening?
00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:11.440
You know, like uh we have an entire there's multiple managers and no one's there, and then no one can call anyone and get anyone there.
00:41:11.599 --> 00:41:14.960
And I mean at the time it was like there were people without cars, like, I gotta take a city bus.
00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:18.000
Like, uh, and I was like, this is fucking insane.
00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:24.800
I remember my friend Hushang, who still works at Mohawk and worked at uh Emozo at the time, was next door.
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:29.199
His now wife worked at a salon next door, and he happened to be visiting her.
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:31.199
I was like, Can you watch the register?
00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:35.119
Here's how you ring up uh vintage couches if anyone buys one.
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:36.159
I have to go down there.
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:38.559
Fucking Bill's dumbass didn't staff anyone.
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:47.599
And I remember I get down to the club, and I feel like internally I must have been thinking, like, do I want to keep I've been doing the same thing for so long, and I'm fit seeing new opportunities.
00:41:47.679 --> 00:41:52.000
And I feel like we're leaving a lot on the table in terms of like what we could do in Austin.
00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:55.119
And I get down there, and this tour manager's like, Are you the runner?
00:41:55.280 --> 00:41:58.400
Runner's like the guy who wasn't buys shit and goes to the grocery store.
00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:00.559
And I'm like, uh, I'm whatever you need me to be right now.
00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:01.679
I just want to make sure you're happy.
00:42:01.760 --> 00:42:03.920
Uh, janitor just got here, he's cleaning.
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:06.800
Um, looks like the first on security's here to start setting up.
00:42:06.880 --> 00:42:09.119
He's like, Okay, we're setting up.
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:11.199
Uh, here's all the laundry.
00:42:11.360 --> 00:42:13.760
Go do the laundry now, get your ass back here.
00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:21.920
And I'm like, okay, so I go to a laundromat, I wash it, I put it in all these dirty clothes for King's Leon.
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:30.239
And then I go to my house and check my email, and I come back to the laundromat, and I pulled out all the everything was dry, and I pulled it out.
00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:36.639
And I'm they're like skinny, tiny, like emaciated indie band, indie, other, I don't even know if you would call them indie rye.
00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:37.360
They're terrible.
00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:45.679
Uh, and I'm like folding their tiny little kin and Barbie underwear because they're very small people, and rolling these underwear and these socks.
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:48.159
And I'm like, what the fuck am I doing?
00:42:48.320 --> 00:42:49.760
Like, how did I get to this point?
00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:53.440
I've managed and book one of the most famous clubs in the country.
00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:55.840
Um, I'm working with huge artists.
00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:58.239
I have a festival down the street.
00:42:58.480 --> 00:43:02.639
Uh, and the manager's fucking, he's not gonna get fired.
00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:06.480
He's he gets to just not show up and I'm here.
00:43:06.639 --> 00:43:07.760
Why am I doing this?
00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:13.199
Like, uh, so I threw all the clothes, I stopped folding it and just threw it all back in the bags and went by.
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:14.800
I was like, hey, it's all clean.
00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:19.440
Uh, and just gave it to the tour manager and um left and whatever.
00:43:19.519 --> 00:43:22.880
I didn't, I mean, I and I just remember that I feel like that might have been the tipping point.
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:25.599
I remember that moment being like, I gotta do something else.
00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:29.199
Like this, I gotta I have other things going on.
00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:30.559
Why am I still doing this?
00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:34.639
And around that time is when I had checked on that clinic show.
00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:48.559
I had reached out to Mohawk about it who I didn't know, but he had reached out to me about doing something, and I was like, Yeah, I don't want to work for you, but I will start a new company that books multiple venues in the city, and emos can be one of them, as well as your Cloud Mohawk, and we can add more venues.
00:43:48.639 --> 00:43:52.960
And I have a festival, and uh I like what Golden Voice does in LA.
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:54.559
And he was from LA.
00:43:54.639 --> 00:43:59.519
He's like, Oh, I used to go to Golden Boy shows all the time in high school, like you know, he was like, I know.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:00.639
That sounds cool.
00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:02.800
So it's like, oh, if y'all want to do that, I'll do it.
00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:06.000
And so, and that must have been within a couple of months of that time.
00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:08.400
Like, that must all happen pretty back to back.
00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:10.480
So, yeah, that's when I left.
00:44:10.639 --> 00:44:16.639
And at the time, Alamo Draft House was starting Fantastic Fest, they're like sci-fi horror film fest the same time.
00:44:16.719 --> 00:44:18.320
So they were getting really busy with that.
00:44:18.480 --> 00:44:20.559
And I was like, Do y'all want to keep doing this fun fun thing?
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:22.639
Because I want to keep doing it and I have some new partners.
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:24.880
If y'all don't, cool, I'll keep doing it.
00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:26.880
If you do, of course, we started it together.
00:44:26.960 --> 00:44:28.800
And Tim was like, It was a handshake deal.
00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:30.480
I'm so swamped with Fantastic Fest.
00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:32.000
Let's why don't you do that and we'll do this?
00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:33.119
Okay, cool.
00:44:33.360 --> 00:44:38.320
So I kept doing it with them and started booking Mohawk and Club Deville.
00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:41.199
And then Frank was so mad he wouldn't let me book emos.
00:44:41.360 --> 00:44:42.000
He was like, You can't.
00:44:42.159 --> 00:44:43.440
He just did not trust anyone.
00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:47.840
Again, he's a card dealer, so he he thinks everyone's always trying to lie to him about something.
00:44:48.079 --> 00:44:50.880
I was like, that would have been my marquee room, and then everything else.
00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:53.840
But I was like, you're forcing me to be your competition.
00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:55.039
Right now I'm your booker.
00:44:55.119 --> 00:44:59.039
You don't have to pay a salary for anymore that will book this as well as other clubs.
00:44:59.199 --> 00:45:08.079
If you're saying I can't book the show, then I'm gonna book every show I can everywhere else, and I'm gonna do everything I can to not book shows there, uh, to make sure nothing goes in that room.
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:19.360
So it like forced, you know, that forced competition sometimes drives you, and it forced us to like work extra hard to be like, we're gonna just do the best job ever and do so much more.
00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:22.079
And this dude's gonna fucking sell this place soon anyway.
00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:24.639
And he sure enough he did and closed it.
00:45:24.719 --> 00:45:32.880
And they wouldn't have even opened that East one, the Red River one, if it weren't for like this You mean the Riverside Riverside, sorry, yeah.
00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:40.639
The Riverside one, they were like some guy, I think it was this guy, Stewart, who was like the ATM credit card machine guy there.
00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:43.119
I think it was him who had money or had some investment.
00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:47.280
Was like, Frank, you sold the building, you made your money, but you shouldn't waste this brand.
00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:48.480
Emo's, it's worth money.
00:45:48.559 --> 00:45:54.159
I can get investors and we could build a new one somewhere and use the name emos because it has value.
00:45:54.320 --> 00:45:57.440
And he's like, if you want to come up with the money, I don't want to spend my real estate money.
00:45:57.519 --> 00:45:59.840
I just made he was just in it to flip the property.
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:06.719
So they opened the East one on someone else's dime, and apparently it did not do well, and they were underwater, and they sold it to Leibniz.
00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:10.639
Like I was told the fire sale, like we're just trying to get out of debt, it didn't work.
00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:13.280
It's in a strip mall on the east side, no one comes to it.
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:19.360
Um, and eventually Lib Nation turned it around by making it not trying to be emos, basically.
00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:22.880
Like they should have just changed the name and called it, they should have called it House of Blues.
00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:28.800
They own all the House of Blues, it looks like a House of Blues, or Riverside Amphitheater, or Riverside Theater.
00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:34.480
I don't know, something that doesn't isn't emos because the emo's identity was so tied to it for so long.
00:46:34.719 --> 00:46:42.400
Over time, however many years later, the next generation who's going there to see the stuff they're going to see there could care less.
00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:44.079
Like they don't the name means nothing.
00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:49.760
So they were over time it worked, but they just made it like this is a room for this size stuff.
00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:51.920
It doesn't matter what it is, genre-wise.
00:46:52.079 --> 00:47:00.880
So um, but I don't think it worked at first because when they first opened up, they were still trying to keep it emos, and it was like it's in a yeah, a strip mall, and it just doesn't have that.
00:47:01.039 --> 00:47:03.280
And that that was kind of the beginning of that.
00:47:03.360 --> 00:47:13.199
But it made it easier for all of us who were working on Red River to be like, well, we can keep growing our stuff because you know no one even likes going to this spot and it's sounds bad and it doesn't have a good vibe.
00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:19.519
And so yeah, it helped us in a weird way build what we were working on and kind of grew up from there.
00:47:19.599 --> 00:47:26.960
So it was a weird falling out when I left Demos, but uh everyone left after that, like all the people who within a year or so.
00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:35.280
I feel like most of the folks I knew that worked there had quite at that point and found other jobs because it was you know changing, and then not too long after that is when it closed.
00:47:35.360 --> 00:47:36.239
So yeah.
00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:44.639
So I mean, so so transmission takes off and and you, you know, build it into a successful independent promotion company.
00:47:45.039 --> 00:48:03.280
And then I know at some point uh you partner up with uh Stratus Properties, uh, and but I know as as that partnership went on, uh, just from what I've what I've seen and what I've read, it just sounds like you you guys work not on the same page business wise.
00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:03.679
Yeah.
00:48:03.840 --> 00:48:23.280
And so I kind of just wanted to get, you know, uh I kind of wanted to get an idea of how that partnership help you refine your philosophy in terms of what an independent promotion company does that's different than what uh a company like Stratus or what's what you know what's now Ryman Hospitality.
00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:23.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:24.320
Yeah.
00:48:24.480 --> 00:48:25.679
So so yeah.
00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:35.519
Yeah, I mean uh basically when we started Transmission, it was just a group of music people and bar owners.
00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:40.320
Um the partnership changed a little bit over time, but it was mostly the same core.
00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:43.360
There were some interesting personalities that kind of came and went.
00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:47.679
But me and Moody from Mohawk were kind of the main folks who kept doing it.
00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:53.920
But by the end of it, we needed a third partner as the partnership had sort of changed because Fum Fum Fum was getting bigger and bigger.
00:48:54.079 --> 00:48:59.840
We were we had to move to a bigger park because Waterloo Park went under construction, and it was just becoming a bigger fest that needed.
00:48:59.920 --> 00:49:01.679
So we're gonna just go to Auditorium Shores.
00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:07.360
But like we're at that point where we're like, well, if if if it rains, we sell our houses and move back in with our parents.
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:09.119
I don't know, we like that's where we're at.
00:49:09.280 --> 00:49:12.239
Like we don't have funding, we're just doing it ourselves.
00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:21.360
So he was like, we gotta get like an investor partner, a third partner that's like the bank, and and then we can be the you know, the folk we did the equity of building the thing.
00:49:21.519 --> 00:49:29.039
Um, so we Stratus Properties had built the W Hotel with ACL Live Moody Theater inside of it.
00:49:29.199 --> 00:49:31.119
Uh, we've been doing a lot of shows there.
00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:37.280
And at the time, C3 Live Nation had no interest in doing shows there because they felt like it would hurt Stubbs.
00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:40.480
So they refused to go into the room, even though it was a great room.
00:49:40.639 --> 00:49:44.719
They were just like, no, it'll as soon as we put bands in here, they're never gonna play Stubbs again.
00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:46.559
It's air conditioned, there's seats, it's nice.
00:49:46.719 --> 00:49:57.840
Like, um, so long story short, they were like, Well, you keep bringing us, we put Devo there and just all these different shows that were sold out, and they were like, These are amazing shows.
00:49:57.920 --> 00:49:59.440
We we just we want to keep working with you guys.
00:49:59.599 --> 00:50:01.599
What can we do to like strengthen this partnership?
00:50:01.840 --> 00:50:07.119
We're like, Well, we need an investor in our festival and our company to help us grow, and you guys want us to help you grow.
00:50:07.199 --> 00:50:09.920
Why don't we partner and then we'll do that?
00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:17.760
In the beginning, it seemed like a good idea, um, but very quickly we realized it was ultra complicated.
00:50:17.840 --> 00:50:20.079
Um, they're a publicly traded company.
00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:28.880
So whether or not you own 1% or 100% of a company, if you're publicly traded and you own a piece of anything, it gets audited.
00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:35.360
All the books are audited the same way publicly traded companies are audited, which is every four months.
00:50:35.599 --> 00:50:41.440
So most people never get audited, or if so, it's like an average of every seven years if you're like own a small business.
00:50:41.599 --> 00:50:44.480
And most small businesses almost rarely ever get audited.
00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:50.239
Um, being audited isn't a bad thing unless you're a crook, but it's a fucking nightmare.
00:50:50.400 --> 00:51:02.159
Um, you know, they go through every, they stop all your business, they go through all your paperwork, they go through every receipt to try and find a mistake where like something didn't get paid, or you know, some tax got fucked up to make sure everything was in the up and up.
00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:08.719
But if it's publicly traded, which means you're using people's money uh from around the world, your books have to be open.
00:51:08.800 --> 00:51:14.000
So the IRS audits these companies every three months, like they have an internal audit.
00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:24.880
That wouldn't be a big deal for them because they're so used to it, and they're ordering millions of dollars of concrete to build a skyrise for 800 million dollars, and and then the everything's in spreadsheets.
00:51:25.039 --> 00:51:46.480
Well, they take on us, and we're pretty organized for a you know small company, but uh not organized the way they are, and that the amount of like stuff we have to do it it in a way it's more, even though it's less, and that building a building is a lot more lines of in a spreadsheet.
00:51:46.639 --> 00:51:52.719
Uh shows just have so many little things that can get tweaked.
00:51:53.039 --> 00:51:58.719
So their venue, which they owned and they audited and kept it in the books, was ACL Live.
00:51:58.880 --> 00:52:00.239
They did 80 shows a year at the time.
00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:06.960
They're like 80 shows a year, 80 spreadsheets, 80 copies of checks, 80 copy of everything that they need to turn in to their bookkeepers.
00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:08.960
We did 80 shows a month.
00:52:09.199 --> 00:52:12.960
So, and all those shows are three bands, not one band.
00:52:13.039 --> 00:52:19.679
And like, you know, so it's that much more paperwork and lines and checks and copies of everything and receipts for hospitality.
00:52:19.840 --> 00:52:22.079
And it was like, they were like, this is insane.
00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:28.719
Like, you get this is 12 times the amount of work they were doing for their venue because of the amount of venues we book.
00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:32.239
Uh, and it isn't like, cool, you got all the paperwork, we'll put it in.
00:52:32.320 --> 00:52:38.320
It was like everything had to be gone through with a fine-tooth comb to see if anything wasn't exactly right.
00:52:38.480 --> 00:52:42.719
They ended up having to hire a new full-time person who did nothing but go through our books every day.
00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:58.559
And it was like we would get a call like uh this show says um the the breakdown says the bananas on the rider, on the hospitality rider were$12.13.
00:52:59.519 --> 00:53:02.639
But the receipt says$12 and$12.03.
00:53:03.280 --> 00:53:04.800
So we're missing a dime.
00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:08.800
Okay, well, clearly they typed it wrong because the receipt is right.
00:53:09.039 --> 00:53:09.360
Right.
00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:14.559
Yeah, but we have to shut down the whole project now and start from scratch and redo all paperwork, all receipts.
00:53:14.719 --> 00:53:16.400
We need to audit so and so.
00:53:16.639 --> 00:53:17.039
Why?
00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:21.280
They they didn't type a one, they typed 0-3 instead of one three.
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:22.400
Like it went like that.
00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:23.840
They just missed the number.
00:53:24.079 --> 00:53:24.480
Right?
00:53:24.639 --> 00:53:42.400
But in their defense, an auditor from the IRS, if they would have saw it and they saw a missing dime, they would be like, I wonder if this company is moving a dime off of every transaction into the Cayman Islands somewhere, and then there's a million dollars lost a year, and they're just calling it spillage of corporate America, and you don't notice it.
00:53:42.719 --> 00:53:44.800
Uh, I'm like, that's crazy.
00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:46.719
Like it was a fucking show at Beerland.
00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:47.679
What do we want me to do?
00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:48.719
It's 10 cents.
00:53:49.119 --> 00:53:59.199
Then it would be like, there's a show at Melvin's played Mohawk, and the total is$10,890.
00:54:00.159 --> 00:54:05.920
But uh, it should have been$10,800,$900 even based on the breakdown.
00:54:06.159 --> 00:54:08.239
Oh, that's right, it was$30 to get in.
00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:17.599
Someone must have paid cash and uh oh and underpaid, like paid a$20 uh and not gotten their$10, or whatever the number was, it was$10.
00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:19.119
That's clearly what happened.
00:54:19.199 --> 00:54:20.400
You could tell based on the cash.
00:54:20.559 --> 00:54:23.519
I'll bring$10 down and hand it to you, and we're even.
00:54:24.079 --> 00:54:26.320
No, it's actually$10 over.
00:54:26.400 --> 00:54:29.599
So someone didn't get their change, they gave$40 and forgot to get their$10.
00:54:29.760 --> 00:54:30.719
It was left in the till.
00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:32.480
Yeah, probably.
00:54:32.960 --> 00:54:34.320
But we can't prove that.
00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:34.880
Okay.
00:54:35.199 --> 00:54:37.119
Well, can you keep the$10 then?
00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:38.159
Ida, what do you want me to do?
00:54:38.239 --> 00:54:38.880
The numbers.
00:54:39.519 --> 00:54:40.960
Yeah, well, we can't do anything.
00:54:41.119 --> 00:54:44.320
Like, and this was every day times 10 shows.
00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:46.559
Like, so it was a county nightmare for them.
00:54:46.639 --> 00:54:47.840
It was a county nightmare for us.
00:54:47.920 --> 00:54:49.119
We couldn't get shit done.
00:54:49.360 --> 00:54:56.400
It was just it didn't work, and eventually the owner of Stratus was just like, well, we should stop doing live music.
00:54:56.559 --> 00:54:58.079
We should stop the live music branch.
00:54:58.159 --> 00:55:00.239
We'll keep doing the festival because that's cool.
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:03.360
And we'll also keep doing the white label like corporate stuff.
00:55:03.440 --> 00:55:13.440
Like when a corporate entity will hire us to produce something and we just get paid a check and we book a show for them or do art for him or do get permits for them to do an event outside somewhere through the city.
00:55:13.519 --> 00:55:17.840
And it's like, well, yeah, that sounds fine, except one, we don't want to do that.
00:55:17.920 --> 00:55:23.679
And two, all the work we get for the festival and white label and everything we do is through the booking entity.
00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:27.679
Like, no one's gonna hire us to do anything else if we don't do the main thing we do.
00:55:27.840 --> 00:55:29.280
Like that's why we exist.
00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:32.000
And we just couldn't see eye to eye on it.
00:55:32.480 --> 00:55:41.199
You're talking to like spreadsheet people who don't live in the music and creative world, and to a bunch of people who got took this job because that's what they want to do for their for a living.
00:55:41.360 --> 00:55:50.480
And eventually it was like, I don't know how many times I said, like, it's like you have a table and you're wanting to take out one or two of the legs, like it's not gonna stay standing.
00:55:50.559 --> 00:55:54.079
Like I'm telling you, all the legs have to be here to keep this company going.
00:55:54.559 --> 00:56:02.320
But uh finally I was like, all right, if that's what you want to do, I'm gonna start a new company called Margin Walker, but doing the same thing, and you guys can keep doing whatever you want.
00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:05.280
And if I'm wrong and everything succeeds, great.
00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:09.599
Uh and if I fail with this dumb booking company, because shows are stupid, right?
00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:10.639
No one wants to go to those.
00:56:10.719 --> 00:56:13.280
Uh, they're a waste of time and money, then that's my fault.
00:56:13.360 --> 00:56:13.920
I fail.
00:56:14.079 --> 00:56:15.519
But like, great, awesome.
00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:18.719
Take all that staff off of our payroll and move it over here.
00:56:18.800 --> 00:56:24.079
And then, you know, within a month, uh, transmission went under like like without the booking and all the buying.
00:56:24.159 --> 00:56:24.719
And then everyone quit.
00:56:24.800 --> 00:56:26.800
Everyone's like, I don't want to do it without the booking.
00:56:26.960 --> 00:56:32.960
Uh, so uh I just remember like a couple months later, it went from whatever 20 employees to two.
00:56:33.119 --> 00:56:41.760
And it was like a manager with no one to manage and an administrative accounting person with no accounting, but they had stayed on salary long enough that they were like just in an empty office.
00:56:41.840 --> 00:56:42.800
It was so crazy.
00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:44.480
Uh, but yeah, that's what happened with that.
00:56:44.559 --> 00:56:46.639
It was just couldn't see eye to eye.
00:56:46.880 --> 00:56:50.559
And you know, for them it was like they're building sky rises.
00:56:50.719 --> 00:56:53.599
This was like a tiny little side thing connected to one of their venues.
00:56:53.679 --> 00:56:56.079
I think they just look at it like, uh, okay, just shelve it.
00:56:56.159 --> 00:56:57.440
Like it was a bad investment.
00:56:57.519 --> 00:56:59.039
Like, we shouldn't have done live music.
00:56:59.119 --> 00:57:00.239
Live music's crazy.
00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:01.840
Uh, but for us, it was the opposite.
00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:03.360
It was like that was a bad partnership.
00:57:03.519 --> 00:57:10.400
We should have done that because we're but live music works, and by partnering with a bigger entity, that that's why Fun Fam went away.
00:57:10.480 --> 00:57:12.960
Like the name was tied up in the breakup and we can't get it back.
00:57:13.440 --> 00:57:25.519
So uh yeah, just it got it was all tangled up in this really weird structure of partnership stuff that sucked, and we just had to to keep doing what we like and keep working with artists.
00:57:25.599 --> 00:57:26.639
We had to just walk away from it.
00:57:26.719 --> 00:57:32.079
It was almost like this battleship was sinking, and the people driving it were like, everything's fine.
00:57:32.159 --> 00:57:45.519
And we were like, cool, if you think it's fine and you're not gonna listen to me that that iceberg we're hitting is real, then how about you guys can keep the ship, but I want the lifeboat and some of the some of the crew.
00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:46.000
Is that cool?
00:57:46.079 --> 00:57:46.559
Like, yeah, fine.
00:57:46.800 --> 00:57:50.400
Well, you're gonna give us this your third of the ship we get to keep, and all you want is a lifeboat?
00:57:50.480 --> 00:57:52.079
Like, take the fucking lifeboat, idiot.
00:57:52.159 --> 00:57:56.960
And we got on the lifeboat and went to an island and rebuilt our society and the ship sank.
00:57:57.039 --> 00:57:58.400
So wow, yeah.
00:57:58.480 --> 00:58:32.559
I I mean, and uh margin walker, I guess is a it was an apt name given what you're what you're describing now, because uh it you know it it it's it I guess it sounds, at least from the perspective if you're like you're building skyscrapers, live music may seem like a marginal business, and I can see why you know if I was an accountant having to nitpick through line item after line item, given how deep you guys have to go when you're talking about booking that many shows in a month, why they would be okay, this this just it's the juiced more at the squeeze.
00:58:32.719 --> 00:58:37.039
But um, but on the margins, that that's everything, right?
00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:37.920
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
00:58:38.239 --> 00:58:48.159
It's a much smaller slice, uh, but it adds up and it's quantity, and and you know, you're building up to something bigger, and it's definitely a lot more hustle.
00:58:48.239 --> 00:58:53.920
But you know, if you like what you're doing, I mean there are a lot of people who like I don't know that they like what I mean.
00:58:54.000 --> 00:59:00.559
There's a lot of people who don't like their jobs, but even at that level, I don't think that you like you like building profit.
00:59:00.639 --> 00:59:10.400
Like, like it's exciting when you're like you're building your spreadsheet and you're working with your projections with your PL and you sit down with the guy who bakes the pro forma and you're like, we're looking good, we're gonna hit our target book.
00:59:10.480 --> 00:59:15.039
Yeah, I'm sit with your board, you talk about it, you all go have sushi, it's great, you know, you get a raise.
00:59:15.199 --> 00:59:18.079
Like the exciting thing for them is building equity.
00:59:18.159 --> 00:59:28.320
Like that's like how exciting to succeed at watching the stack get bigger, even though you're not even doing anything with the stack, it's being reinvested in other things to make bigger stacks.
00:59:28.480 --> 00:59:35.360
Like, I can see why some people find that exciting uh and put them to the side of me that has to deal with like the financial stuff.
00:59:35.519 --> 00:59:43.440
Obviously, I love when we're doing well and we're not you know stressing out about during like the slow summer season or whatever that you know lag music you know has to deal with.
00:59:43.599 --> 00:59:52.639
Um but I think for most people that do this kind of stuff, it's like you're trying to do something interesting and enjoy what you do.
00:59:52.719 --> 00:59:55.119
It doesn't the stack is kind of irrelevant.
00:59:55.199 --> 01:00:02.480
As long as it's not negative and you can't do the thing, that you know, that shouldn't be the first, you know, thing you're thinking of.
01:00:02.559 --> 01:00:09.840
Uh and I think folks in that world, it's just a different way of doing business um or a different way of thinking about how you succeed.
01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:16.880
Like success isn't is tied more to those stacks than it is um, you know, what it is you actually want to do.
01:00:17.119 --> 01:00:17.280
Yeah.
01:00:17.519 --> 01:00:23.039
Because a lot of people like are doing a thing and then their hobby is the thing most of us are doing for our lives, you know.
01:00:23.119 --> 01:00:34.159
Like, man, I'm really crushing it at the office, and could nothing against that, like really crush it at the office, and but yeah, we're gonna go see we did we crush it so hard we're gonna go celebrate by seeing bands.
01:00:34.400 --> 01:00:36.000
We're gonna pay to see bands, you know.
01:00:36.159 --> 01:00:41.280
Like, like, oh well we didn't crush it at the office, I guess, but we see bands.
01:00:41.440 --> 01:00:43.920
We do the thing you do all the time, but every day.
01:00:44.159 --> 01:01:01.440
You know, like like it's just you know, I'm sure there's someone on a beach right now whose job it is to like pick up coconuts who were like, uh, it must be tough to see be that guy down there cleaning the beach and picking the coconuts up, and like, and he's walking around in bare feet on a beach.
01:01:01.599 --> 01:01:07.519
Like, these idiots pay thousands of dollars to come to the beach I work on and lay on and drink these coconuts.
01:01:07.840 --> 01:01:11.119
And I live in paradise, and these people are paying to come to my home.
01:01:11.280 --> 01:01:15.599
Like, like uh, he's like, they think they got a good uh, so maybe we're we're the beach bums.
01:01:16.159 --> 01:01:18.079
Um but it's so far so good.
01:01:18.320 --> 01:01:19.039
Yeah, yeah.
01:01:19.119 --> 01:01:22.559
So so Margin Walker started in was 2016, I think.
01:01:22.719 --> 01:01:23.199
Uh yeah.
01:01:23.440 --> 01:01:23.599
Yeah.
01:01:23.920 --> 01:01:31.280
Let's talk a little bit about how Red River had evolved from when transmission started to when uh when when Margin Walker got started.
01:01:32.079 --> 01:01:43.119
Um yeah, so I guess with transmission, like I said, we went from I left Emo's kind of was for or I left Emo's by choice, but then was unable to book it.
01:01:43.199 --> 01:01:47.440
So we started doing Mohawk and Club Deville, we were doing some shows at.
01:01:47.599 --> 01:01:51.360
We eventually um bought Red Seven, which at the time was a dance club.
01:01:51.599 --> 01:01:58.880
Bunch of kids that used to work at the Ritz when Ritz was taken over by Bob Woody's son, maybe I think that's what I had heard.
01:01:58.960 --> 01:02:04.239
All the punk kids who worked there somehow stumbled into this dance club that was failing and were like, Can we work here?
01:02:04.480 --> 01:02:05.519
Can we put on shows here?
01:02:05.679 --> 01:02:14.320
And they just let them put on shows in bar 10 because the guy who owned it was just failing and was like, if you guys can just make any money at this bar, you can have the club basically, just pay my rent.
01:02:14.480 --> 01:02:15.440
So they were running it.
01:02:15.599 --> 01:02:18.320
We ended up buying it from the that guy who was super shady.
01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:19.599
The taxes were all shady.
01:02:19.840 --> 01:02:25.840
We got hit with like a bunch of we made a mistake by buying someone's liquor license, but uh anyway.
01:02:26.000 --> 01:02:30.079
Um, so we had that club and we had the God, we also booked Scoot M for a while.
01:02:30.159 --> 01:02:35.199
We booked uh I forgot, we even booked uh Lambert's for a while.
01:02:35.280 --> 01:02:42.880
There were like a few random places we booked just because like weird relationships and investments from different people that were like, oh I'm I'm involved with so and so.
01:02:42.960 --> 01:02:44.400
They said they need someone to help out.
01:02:44.559 --> 01:02:46.480
So we were like doing stuff everywhere.
01:02:46.719 --> 01:02:52.719
Um, but eventually we kind of figured out which were the right rooms for the bands we were dealing with and where we could add to that.
01:02:52.960 --> 01:02:55.519
And transmission just kept growing, fun fun fun kept growing.
01:02:55.599 --> 01:02:58.320
That was kind of the biggest thing, like that was the driving force.
01:02:58.400 --> 01:03:04.239
Uh, and of course, South by at the time was like exploding, you know, like that was like the apex.
01:03:04.320 --> 01:03:08.320
Like we would make more money the week of South by than almost the entire year.
01:03:08.480 --> 01:03:14.880
Like we would literally make about 500 grand profit like just that 10 days.
01:03:15.119 --> 01:03:16.400
Um, it was crazy.
01:03:16.559 --> 01:03:20.559
Like that would fund what we would lose on a bad festival year or something.
01:03:20.719 --> 01:03:22.800
Uh well, at least we got uh South by.
01:03:23.039 --> 01:03:37.599
It was crazy because it was like all these corporate entities were coming into downtown and just like we just need a parking lot to set up our Marlboro cigarette trailer that isn't allowed to do ads due to the new state laws.
01:03:37.840 --> 01:03:44.639
So you have to walk into a trailer and show that you're 21 to then get marketed to we have a hundred thousand dollars.
01:03:44.800 --> 01:03:51.599
Like, okay, we'll rent a parking lot for 10 grand and pay for permits and staff and security, and we keep the rest, I guess.
01:03:51.679 --> 01:03:52.639
Like, and that was crazy.
01:03:52.800 --> 01:04:02.960
Or like SoundCloud, Spotify, uh, you know, Pandora, all these streaming services were popping up, um, you know, random brands, like liquor brands, food brands.
01:04:03.039 --> 01:04:10.559
Everyone wanted to be at South by so and they needed boots on the ground, and we had like a big team because we were doing festivals, so like we can pull permits, we can get fencing.
01:04:10.800 --> 01:04:11.280
We can.
01:04:11.440 --> 01:04:18.480
I remember one year, like the bit most money we made was Jimmy Kimmel was doing a live at Long Center thing.
01:04:18.639 --> 01:04:22.159
It was paid for by Cottonell butt wipes.
01:04:22.239 --> 01:04:24.960
There's like wet toilet paper things.
01:04:25.280 --> 01:04:33.599
Um, and we had to wrap a uh RV with like cottonel branding and get a permit to have it parked up front in front of the long center.
01:04:33.760 --> 01:04:44.880
And they did some commercial thing with like people from the show where like people would walk by, walking their dogs by zilker or whatever park it was shores, and then talk to them and come in, would you like to try this out?
01:04:44.960 --> 01:04:50.000
And then they'd film them, and that was they got played during the show in between these like quirky live commercials where they brought people in.
01:04:50.079 --> 01:04:50.800
And how was it?
01:04:50.880 --> 01:04:51.280
How was it?
01:04:51.360 --> 01:04:52.000
Was it a great experience?
01:04:52.159 --> 01:04:53.679
Did you like wiping your ass with that?
01:04:54.159 --> 01:04:57.119
Uh, and I don't know how much we made some stupid amount of money.
01:04:57.280 --> 01:04:58.719
We're like, that was crazy.
01:04:58.800 --> 01:05:00.639
Like, that's some network TV money.
01:05:00.719 --> 01:05:06.719
Like, but uh anyway, so like South by the Fest, the clubs we had that was really, really growing at that point.
01:05:06.800 --> 01:05:09.039
And then we had started experiencing into other cities.
01:05:09.119 --> 01:05:12.960
We started booking Paper Tiger in San Antonio, which used to be White Rabbit.
01:05:13.119 --> 01:05:14.400
Uh, we still worked with them.
01:05:14.559 --> 01:05:16.159
We opened a Dallas office.
01:05:16.320 --> 01:05:20.079
Um, we just had some friends that were promoters there that were needing to grow.
01:05:20.320 --> 01:05:30.320
And then we were in the same boat, like we were wanting to book bands that we could put in multiple cities, and rather just having someone play Austin, a lot of agents were like, Can you get us something in Dallas?
01:05:30.400 --> 01:05:32.159
I haven't heard back from the promoter there or whatever.
01:05:32.400 --> 01:05:37.840
It's easier to be like, instead of one show, here's four shows, here's four, here's Houston, Austin, Dallas, San Antonio.
01:05:37.920 --> 01:05:39.519
We'll take well to make it easy for you.
01:05:39.599 --> 01:05:40.719
Here's four offers.
01:05:40.880 --> 01:05:44.400
Uh, we still do that a bit, um, but we did it a lot then.
01:05:44.480 --> 01:05:50.559
So we really grew things to up until the split with Stratus properties.
01:05:50.639 --> 01:05:55.920
That well, when Fum Pum Fum went away, we were kind of hitting our stride at that point.
01:05:56.079 --> 01:05:59.519
Um, and Marjorie Walker just picked up, picked up the ball and kept riding.
01:05:59.599 --> 01:05:59.840
Like, not.
01:06:00.239 --> 01:06:00.800
Much change.
01:06:00.960 --> 01:06:05.840
The only major change, like we had the same office in Dallas, same team, same clubs.
01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:08.320
Like, if anything, Marjorie Walker was better than ever.
01:06:08.400 --> 01:06:10.480
Like it was doing better than Hairsburg in some ways.
01:06:10.559 --> 01:06:14.480
The only major problem was that we lost Fum Fum Fun in the breakup.
01:06:15.119 --> 01:06:26.320
And the bigger issue was we then launched Sound on Sound Fest, which was at a Renaissance festival outside of Austin, which was just Fum Fum Fun at a Renaissance fair with a different name.
01:06:26.559 --> 01:06:29.920
Also a big boys song, Austin's greatest.
01:06:30.239 --> 01:06:32.239
Um, and it was really cool.
01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:34.000
First year was awesome, it was crazy.
01:06:34.079 --> 01:06:39.360
We had bands, there was jousting, the bands playing fucking with like the night costumes.
01:06:39.519 --> 01:06:40.320
It was so funny.
01:06:40.480 --> 01:06:44.719
It was such a like very fun pum pum pest concept of like something so ridiculous.
01:06:44.880 --> 01:06:51.280
Uh but the last day it rained crazy, like evacuation, had to evacuate the entire Renaissance festival.
01:06:51.360 --> 01:06:52.719
It was the craziest storm ever.
01:06:53.119 --> 01:06:55.440
Sideways rain, tents are getting knocked down.
01:06:55.679 --> 01:06:58.639
Uh, and that really hurt us financially.
01:06:58.800 --> 01:07:02.159
So the next year we got like investors teed up to help.
01:07:02.320 --> 01:07:05.440
Because this was like in the early days, you do a festival.
01:07:05.599 --> 01:07:09.199
Once the bar sales come in, sponsorship ticket money, you pay all the bands, pay everyone.
01:07:09.280 --> 01:07:10.880
All right, see you guys later.
01:07:11.360 --> 01:07:16.480
Uh that year before, all these festivals screwed over a bazillion people nationwide.
01:07:16.559 --> 01:07:22.719
There were too many fests, everyone's going to, you know, Lola Palooza or whatever, and being like, we can do this too, and trying to start festivals.
01:07:22.800 --> 01:07:25.840
So every city had a festival and they were all going bankrupt.
01:07:26.000 --> 01:07:30.639
Um, fire festival, the famous one had happened, you know, and and had burned all these people.
01:07:30.800 --> 01:07:31.679
But it wasn't just them.
01:07:31.760 --> 01:07:34.719
That's the one that the documentaries are about, but there was a bunch more.
01:07:34.800 --> 01:07:41.840
There's a one called Pemberton and I think like British Columbia or somewhere that was huge and well booked, and no one saw it coming.
01:07:41.920 --> 01:07:43.119
It no one got paid.
01:07:43.360 --> 01:07:59.760
Um, so around that time where we had started this truly independent festival with help after Fun Fun, was when every agent was like, hey man, we got to start getting paid in advance on bans, not because of you, but because it's our new directive because we've been burned so many times worldwide.
01:08:00.079 --> 01:08:01.440
You're like, okay, well, that sucks.
01:08:01.519 --> 01:08:04.800
I gotta start getting people more deposit, bigger deposits, okay.
01:08:05.039 --> 01:08:09.840
But then it's like lighting companies, portage on companies, generator companies, staging companies.
01:08:09.920 --> 01:08:11.760
Everyone's like, hey, we gotta get a deposit now.
01:08:11.840 --> 01:08:13.679
It's not you guys, we work with you forever.
01:08:13.760 --> 01:08:17.920
But we did this camping hippie festival that no one, you know, showed up to and they stuffed us.
01:08:18.000 --> 01:08:20.399
Oh, we were doing this, you know, whatever.
01:08:20.479 --> 01:08:29.840
Like you name the event, it had gotten rained out, it had gotten funding was pulled, uh, someone wasn't selling enough tickets, and they just weren't getting paid, and they had to pay their staff.
01:08:29.920 --> 01:08:40.880
All these companies across Texas that were like, we have to the new business model due to too many people trying to be festival promoters is we have to change for the live nations of the world, they're billionaires.
01:08:41.039 --> 01:08:45.119
They're just like, Yeah, we'll just write a couple hundred thousand dollars in checks tomorrow and we're done.
01:08:45.279 --> 01:08:48.319
But for smaller festivals, it's like we don't have that much upfront capital.
01:08:48.560 --> 01:08:50.640
We have we have to sell tickets to get to that point.
01:08:50.800 --> 01:08:55.760
So we had been working on a bunch of sponsorship uh investment stuff to make that happen.
01:08:56.000 --> 01:09:02.720
And the second year, like this investor fell through at the 11th hour, like the week deposits were due.
01:09:02.880 --> 01:09:08.319
And we had already announced the festival because we already had an LLI letter of intent in place and started the process.
01:09:08.399 --> 01:09:10.159
So we're like, well, let's go and announce.
01:09:10.319 --> 01:09:15.199
And we had to decide like, do we try and find another investor in the next six weeks?
01:09:15.439 --> 01:09:20.239
And if we get them, cool, we can send out all the deposits, pay everyone in advance and do the fest.
01:09:20.399 --> 01:09:43.359
Or do we, if we fail, we don't get an investor and we can't pay everyone, then we have to cancel, burn all the bands, screw over all the customers, like but six weeks out, we could actually relocate all the bands into venues and just refund everyone's tickets and then say, hey, you can see all these bands up and down Red River and AC Alive and emos, like you name every club in town.
01:09:43.520 --> 01:09:48.960
We just plugged the bands and we were like, it was we weren't willing to like risk like destroying the company.
01:09:49.039 --> 01:10:01.920
And so we were just like, let's just cancel, uh cancel the fest, wind it down, connect all the artists into all the venues in town that are touring and still get them all paid and uh get everyone their money back.
01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:03.039
So that's what we decided to do.
01:10:03.119 --> 01:10:12.880
We just did the right thing, but uh, but it was really painful because we had just built this cool festival, and it was such a neat idea that to have to like, ah man, that second year lineup was crazy.
01:10:12.960 --> 01:10:14.880
It was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, Iggy Pop.
01:10:14.960 --> 01:10:16.560
It was like this crazy lineup.
01:10:16.720 --> 01:10:28.800
Uh, but it happens, and that was that was that was probably the biggest hurdle because Margin Walker itself just continued exactly when the same transmission was on it, kept growing, kept the same venues, same people.
01:10:28.960 --> 01:10:34.239
Uh, it really wasn't until COVID hit, and really like catching on our stride too.
01:10:34.319 --> 01:10:37.439
Like everything was going really, really well in the live music space in general.
01:10:37.520 --> 01:10:44.159
Like, I think 2019 had been like one of the busiest years for live music nationwide, maybe worldwide too.
01:10:44.319 --> 01:10:47.920
You were like live nation and AG, the big companies were ordering record numbers.
01:10:48.079 --> 01:11:03.920
Just everyone was on tour, streaming numbers were going higher and higher, which meant while it's bad for artists when it comes to record sales, it's good for artists who play live because anyone can listen to you and become a fan in seconds versus having to save up by your record, get the distributed record to a record store to find it.
01:11:04.000 --> 01:11:11.039
Instead, bands were just becoming everyone's favorite band within days versus years, and it meant people wanted to go see them live.
01:11:11.199 --> 01:11:16.560
So, um, but yeah, when COVID hit, it was just like, okay, what are we gonna do?
01:11:16.720 --> 01:11:18.079
Or shut things down.
01:11:18.159 --> 01:11:24.560
And all the Red River clubs that we worked with, at first it seemed like, well, this is gonna be short.
01:11:24.640 --> 01:11:27.279
It's a we're flattening the curve, six weeks, they said.
01:11:27.840 --> 01:11:34.479
Uh, we'll we'll close down and we'll we'll open back up, we'll do a benefit show or something to raise money to pay that back rent for a month.
01:11:34.640 --> 01:11:41.199
Uh, and then when it was like apparent that, like, okay, we're not gonna be able to come back online, we're not gonna be able to have shows.
01:11:41.520 --> 01:11:52.000
Uh, everyone, you know, remember all those videos, like everyone had to board up their windows and uh everyone had to furlough staff, everyone had to go to the government and get funds and stuff.
01:11:52.159 --> 01:12:06.720
Luckily for a lot of the clubs, uh, there was a big pool of money that got set aside for like restaurants, independent venues, like things that need that there'd be no way to come back from because the landlords and mortgage were paused by the government.
01:12:06.880 --> 01:12:09.279
You couldn't collect from people who couldn't be open.
01:12:09.680 --> 01:12:13.600
Um, but you could ask for it back when you got when they did reopen.
01:12:13.760 --> 01:12:19.840
So it's like, well, if you owe a year's worth of rent at 20K a month or whatever, it's like, oh, quarter of a million dollars.
01:12:20.000 --> 01:12:20.640
Where is it?
01:12:20.800 --> 01:12:31.520
So everyone applied for government grants um that were pretty much forgivable as long as they were spent on rent, staff, talent, you know, improvements, not like someone went and bought a yacht.
01:12:31.760 --> 01:12:42.640
Uh and luckily it was that there was an independent nonprofit, Neva, that worked nationwide to get it, and most of the venus were able to apply for it and and get reopened.
01:12:42.800 --> 01:12:43.600
A few didn't make it.
01:12:43.760 --> 01:12:46.479
Barracuda closed, north door closed.
01:12:46.720 --> 01:12:50.960
Um most were able to power through though, nationwide.
01:12:51.199 --> 01:12:59.359
But uh, so when we relaunched, we just came up with a new name and rebranded and uh had to kind of rebuild a little, I feel like.
01:12:59.520 --> 01:13:02.800
Like going from Transmission to Margin Walker was like seamless.
01:13:02.880 --> 01:13:04.880
It was like we just changed the name because we were already going.
01:13:04.960 --> 01:13:05.199
Yeah.
01:13:05.359 --> 01:13:21.359
But with everything we had shut down, it was kind of like you had to start booking shows again and start filling the calendars, and then that first year it was like a new wave of variant would come through of COVID, and then everyone would cancel their tours again, and you'd refund all the tickets again, or pause and say, the tickets are good, but not for six months.
01:13:21.600 --> 01:13:24.159
The band's got to reschedule, the singer's sick, but they'll be fine.
01:13:24.319 --> 01:13:26.640
And they would just that would happen over and over again.
01:13:26.800 --> 01:13:31.439
Uh, and so there's this weird like up and down, and booking agents at all.
01:13:31.680 --> 01:13:42.319
A lot of the booking agencies got swallowed up or went out of business or like moved to other businesses, so everyone's kind of like trying to find their footing, and it's just like we were, um, as we kind of came back on.
01:13:42.399 --> 01:13:52.479
So once it started rolling, people were excited to go to shows again, but like the process of booking shows, I feel like that first year or two was kind of like up and down, and then now it's like busier than ever.
01:13:52.640 --> 01:13:55.439
I'd say I I think it's the busiest it's been in years.
01:13:55.520 --> 01:13:57.039
Wow, even maybe pre-COVID.
01:13:57.680 --> 01:13:58.720
You remember 2020?
01:13:58.800 --> 01:14:11.680
I mean, it was South by Southwest was gonna start a a week out from when they declared a national emergency, and then suddenly you go from being super busy to kind of off a cliff, really.
01:14:12.079 --> 01:14:16.479
I mean, how you know, just psychologically, how did you muscle through that?
01:14:16.800 --> 01:14:18.880
Um, I'm a fairly calm person.
01:14:18.960 --> 01:14:20.960
I don't get super emotional about stuff.
01:14:21.119 --> 01:14:26.479
Um, so I don't think I was like freaking out, but I will say it was frustrating.
01:14:26.640 --> 01:14:29.199
Like I've always been able to like map everything out.
01:14:29.279 --> 01:14:34.079
Like, here's where we're at, whether it's good or bad, you can see where you're going, you can kind of plan things out.
01:14:34.319 --> 01:14:37.680
And I'm always doing stuff and like had nothing to do, you know.
01:14:37.760 --> 01:14:38.800
Like, couldn't book shows.
01:14:38.880 --> 01:14:40.159
We're constantly just moving shows.
01:14:40.319 --> 01:14:42.000
Agents, hey, can we move back the holes?
01:14:42.079 --> 01:14:43.359
We're hoping things are better.
01:14:43.439 --> 01:14:52.880
We hear there may be a vaccine soon, so we're gonna push it back six months, but keep the dates on this calendar, and just like you're we barely all most of our staff has like moved on and found new jobs.
01:14:53.039 --> 01:15:00.399
A few of us are like still doing it off to the side, just as us in the amount of emails, instead of 200 emails a day, you're getting like three emails a day.
01:15:00.479 --> 01:15:02.159
You're just what do I do with my time?
01:15:02.319 --> 01:15:07.039
And there were some independent promoters that it all kind of banded together nationwide.
01:15:07.119 --> 01:15:17.199
So it'd be like a lot of Zoom calls when Zoom was running shit, uh, where we'd just be talking about ideas, people were trying new things, online shows, like these dumb hikers.
01:15:17.439 --> 01:15:22.239
Just looking back, I hope someone does a documentary about the funny things that were being done.
01:15:22.479 --> 01:15:26.640
Like, oh yeah, you can buy a ticket to watch an online performance of a band.
01:15:26.720 --> 01:15:29.279
Like you're supporting the band, but it's like the saddest thing ever.
01:15:29.439 --> 01:15:32.640
Everyone's drinking beer and like watching the show, like you're in a show.
01:15:32.800 --> 01:15:45.680
Uh, people invented these like online document worlds where you could go to almost like a video game, but you can experience and you're with your friend there, and you can actually chat because you're at the show, but you're digitally at the show, and it looks kind of like you're at the show.
01:15:45.760 --> 01:15:48.399
You can move to a different spot to where you would watch from.
01:15:48.479 --> 01:15:53.439
And it was just like the saddest like um digital world.
01:15:53.520 --> 01:16:01.439
Uh, maybe that's how the world will be in the future, but in the meantime, it was very like this is just like this weird patch to try and keep people from going crazy.
01:16:01.600 --> 01:16:18.560
Um, then the idea of parking lot shows, your drive-in theater shows where people were driving in the honking when the band was done, the bands playing to cars, uh, then the spread out one where everyone's whatever, 15 feet apart in little pods with like cases of beer, like just these things that people were doing.
01:16:18.640 --> 01:16:20.000
We we kind of veered away from that.
01:16:20.079 --> 01:16:26.159
One, we didn't own venues at the time, so we didn't have to try and fill this empty space we couldn't use.
01:16:26.399 --> 01:16:31.359
Um, but we also like, I don't know, it was kind of like I supported, I'm helping with some.
01:16:31.439 --> 01:16:54.399
We we had like a few things that we were paid to do, like sponsored events where we filmed artists in like unique locations and then put them online, but they were more like cool experiences to watch, not like uh, you know, like we did what we had Black Pumas at the live, that crazy library downtown with all those weird, and we had them in different sections on those floating stairs, and we filmed it with all these different camera angles, and then we edit it together and put it on YouTube live.
01:16:54.560 --> 01:17:02.479
And we did a thing with like Shaky Graves and an old West Ghost Town with like, you know, like those old, like, you know, like where a shootout would have the saloon, all that stuff.
01:17:02.560 --> 01:17:03.760
Because we're like, oh, how funny would it be?
01:17:03.920 --> 01:17:07.680
There's like a buffalo in the background and a wagon train rolling by.
01:17:07.760 --> 01:17:19.279
And we were just like, let's just find if you're gonna watch something online and have to watch your band instead of watch them in their practice space, let's have it like somewhere crazy, you would never see a band play, but because everything's shut down, you can just go to these weird places.
01:17:19.359 --> 01:17:27.600
So, like, we did a couple things like that, but mostly we were just like focused, you know, on getting being a part of whatever was gonna happen next.
01:17:27.760 --> 01:17:37.119
Um, but it was definitely like off-putting because I went from being like a person who always kind of knows the direction we're going roughly, and to being like, I don't know what's gonna happen.
01:17:37.279 --> 01:17:42.560
Like, I remember like like how much how Texas is so crazy right now that everything's skyrocketing.
01:17:42.880 --> 01:17:47.439
There was all those articles about Austin being so expensive and everyone's moving to Austin and every houses are double.
01:17:47.760 --> 01:17:58.800
Like, we could sell our house, buy a cheaper house, like a condo or something in Buda or something, and reinvest all the extra in some other properties downtown and just manage properties.
01:17:58.960 --> 01:18:01.119
And I was like, who knows if we'll be doing music on the field.
01:18:01.279 --> 01:18:03.680
I was like, what's I don't have I don't know what I can do.
01:18:03.760 --> 01:18:04.800
I don't have a good resume.
01:18:04.880 --> 01:18:10.960
I mean, I do if I'm a promoter, but if I'm not, I and the last job I had was bagging groceries at Fresh Plus grocery store.
01:18:11.039 --> 01:18:13.520
I could see if Mike Walker, my manager, is still there.
01:18:14.159 --> 01:18:17.680
If he needs bagging help, maybe I can work my way up the register.
01:18:18.319 --> 01:18:19.199
I don't know.
01:18:19.439 --> 01:18:19.600
Yeah.
01:18:19.920 --> 01:18:30.319
See, I I haven't actually worked a register in since then, so I I don't actually don't have the skills to do anything but bag the groceries at Fresh Plus, come to think of it.
01:18:30.800 --> 01:18:34.960
Um so yeah, it was it was very like daunting to not know what was next.
01:18:35.039 --> 01:18:36.239
That was the worst part.
01:18:36.399 --> 01:18:38.800
I don't think I was as stressed as most people were.
01:18:39.119 --> 01:18:43.359
I wasn't depressed or anything, but I was definitely like frustrated.
01:18:43.439 --> 01:18:46.079
Like I I'm so used to being in control and I have no control.
01:18:46.239 --> 01:18:55.760
I was just sitting and waiting and watching people put things together that are like kind of sad attempts to like you know relive uh a lot of the music days.
01:18:55.920 --> 01:19:00.479
It's like oh this is the this is the let's just let's just get there.
01:19:00.720 --> 01:19:09.119
Um but paid close attention and I think we did a good job of like finding the right time to relaunch and jump back in and like rebuild it all.
01:19:09.279 --> 01:19:10.880
But uh yeah, it was daunting.
01:19:11.119 --> 01:19:26.239
But you're telling me now that it it sounds like you guys are operating in in the ballpark of pre-COVID levels, which is Yeah, I would say show wise, I feel like the numbers are pretty much where they were uh that really good year before COVID.
01:19:26.399 --> 01:19:32.399
Like number of shows happening, tours are happening like crazy, tickets are selling well, people are going out to shows.
01:19:32.560 --> 01:19:33.840
There hasn't really been a drop-off.
01:19:34.159 --> 01:19:35.680
If anything, there's an increase.
01:19:35.920 --> 01:19:40.159
Um yeah, I mean, uh I would like to expand a bit more.
01:19:40.239 --> 01:19:42.960
Like we have some more, like I missed like we used to have a Dallas office.
01:19:43.119 --> 01:19:45.840
It'd be nice to kind of start working in some other places.
01:19:45.920 --> 01:19:49.119
We we do shows here and there across the state, but it'd be nice to do more.
01:19:49.439 --> 01:19:51.520
Like we had some good people in other cities.
01:19:51.680 --> 01:19:56.560
Um, but uh as far as like the core thing that we are doing, it's yeah, it's busier than ever.
01:19:56.800 --> 01:20:09.119
So I mean, so where do you see I'm I'm gonna bring it back around to Red River here, but where where do you see uh Red River in terms of moving forward as a as a center for live music?
01:20:09.439 --> 01:20:12.239
It seems to have beaten the odds over and over again.
01:20:12.479 --> 01:20:20.479
Um there's the Red River Cultural District who does a great job like communicating with the city and kind of lobbying on behalf of that community.
01:20:20.800 --> 01:20:33.840
Uh most of the businesses there um function in a way that drives traffic to that area for that purpose as opposed to even with the new businesses that opened, they tend to complement so far.
01:20:34.479 --> 01:20:41.760
Um you know, when I thought Red River might go away, when I think I saw things popping up, you know, years ago, it didn't, it grew.
01:20:41.920 --> 01:20:44.000
Like more businesses have opened.
01:20:44.319 --> 01:20:49.439
Um so it seems like it's going in the right direction and it has a lot of protection.
01:20:49.600 --> 01:20:52.399
There it it's a topic at the city.
01:20:52.479 --> 01:20:54.000
It's a name that people understand.
01:20:54.079 --> 01:21:01.439
It's something that's often cited as an area you need to protect and and keep, you know, as a vital part of the music community.
01:21:01.520 --> 01:21:06.000
I mean, you've got powerhouses like Stubbs, and then you've got little tiny dives like Valhalla.
01:21:06.159 --> 01:21:17.279
You've got these different size things that all are part of this ecosystem that has continued to benefit the city, benefit jobs, community taxes.
01:21:17.439 --> 01:21:20.479
Like there's it, there's a lot of pluses.
01:21:21.199 --> 01:21:27.600
The reason people move to Austin and why we've had such an explosion in population are like the cool factor.
01:21:27.760 --> 01:21:33.680
You know, you want to go to the cool film city, the cool art city, the music city, the place with the beautiful lake in the middle you can jog around.
01:21:33.760 --> 01:21:39.359
Like, there's so many things that are you can't really build over, or you or those people won't want to move here.
01:21:39.439 --> 01:21:40.720
Those condos will go empty.
01:21:40.880 --> 01:21:59.680
The the jobs that people move to take, that the reason so many tech companies are here is because they want the young up-and-coming people to take those jobs, the hot new people straight out of the Ivy League university, and they want it here because it's appealing to get people to move and take those jobs, because who doesn't want to live in Austin?
01:21:59.840 --> 01:22:04.640
But once Austin becomes just kind of a stuffy big city, then it's like, well, I'd rather live somewhere else.
01:22:04.800 --> 01:22:06.000
Where else can I move?
01:22:06.239 --> 01:22:08.560
So balancing that is ultra important.
01:22:08.720 --> 01:22:13.920
I think Red River has really managed to keep that alive, and I hope can continue.
01:22:14.079 --> 01:22:24.640
Um, you know, I I always worry because from the beginning of all the development around Waterloo Amphitheater and that the taking away the Waller Creek.
01:22:24.720 --> 01:22:33.840
At one point, Waller Creek was this, you know, Freeman community that was like, oh, well, it's gonna flood out those folks, and people of the city didn't care because they were minorities.
01:22:34.000 --> 01:22:35.840
It was a hundred-year flood plan or whatever.
01:22:35.920 --> 01:22:41.600
So it was a floodplain area that would flood, and you could fuck up your houses or lose a house into the creek anytime it rained.
01:22:41.760 --> 01:22:42.560
Now that's been fixed.
01:22:42.640 --> 01:22:51.199
So all those developers who could only rent out these divy little buildings to clubs now are like, well, shit, now I I have my I have value.
01:22:51.279 --> 01:22:53.439
I could actually there could build condos here.
01:22:53.600 --> 01:22:55.279
So that's always looming.
01:22:55.439 --> 01:22:59.119
I mean, that that's always a conversation, but it's been a conversation for a long time.
01:22:59.359 --> 01:23:00.880
I have seen stuff pop up.
01:23:00.960 --> 01:23:04.000
I have heard of people who've been in meetings, like, oh man, I was invited to go to a meeting.
01:23:04.159 --> 01:23:09.199
They didn't know I actually own one of the clubs, and they were saying shit in front that was crazy about what they're gonna tear down.
01:23:09.279 --> 01:23:19.439
So there's always worries of developers doing that, but it hasn't happened yet, and the city's been very responsive to like protecting it, and some of the stuff that has been built has really incorporated it.
01:23:19.520 --> 01:23:28.880
Like, there has been talk of those like first floors being venues and bars and restaurants and things that are tied to it, and sometimes those new developments bring more people down too.
01:23:28.960 --> 01:23:38.159
I mean, it's easy to say, like, we don't want it, but like that ready ice building I mentioned across from Mohawk, everyone's like, first of all, it's an ice warehouse.
01:23:38.239 --> 01:23:41.119
It wasn't like you lost anything, like we can make ice anywhere.
01:23:41.279 --> 01:23:50.960
Second of all, when it built, it was like fuck, these condos are gonna destroy Stubbs and Mohawk and Club Deville, which is now Trip Charlie's, which are outdoor music venues.
01:23:51.119 --> 01:23:54.000
Well, they had lots of meetings about it with the developers.
01:23:54.159 --> 01:24:03.600
Like, you gotta do double paying glass, you have to uh market it to people as like for those who love music and bars and downtown culture, this is where you want to live.
01:24:03.680 --> 01:24:07.199
You can walk home from uh from meeting friends for drinks and go to your place.
01:24:07.279 --> 01:24:12.640
So they market it more for like students and young people rather than like families who are gonna be annoyed by the music.
01:24:12.720 --> 01:24:16.560
And it's work, it's that place has been there for I even know 15 years at least.
01:24:16.720 --> 01:24:17.119
Oh wow.
01:24:17.439 --> 01:24:20.640
Uh and that place is successful, it's always filled to capacity.
01:24:20.720 --> 01:24:24.960
They're not desperate to find people to tenants, and those apartments do really well.
01:24:25.119 --> 01:24:30.960
And they actually have customers who do go to bars and restaurants around there because it's within walkie distance where they live.
01:24:31.039 --> 01:24:35.199
So um, sometimes those developments can kind of add to the community.
01:24:35.279 --> 01:24:41.840
I think as long as you don't bulldoze and lose everything that's vital and you kind of work with it, I think some of the added stuff could work.
01:24:42.079 --> 01:24:46.319
It's just we have to keep the pressure on to make sure that that doesn't happen.
01:24:46.399 --> 01:24:48.000
So I'm very optimistic.
01:24:48.159 --> 01:24:59.279
Uh that said, we've all seen Austin change over the years, and we've all seen areas and beloved venues and museums and you name it disappear.
01:24:59.359 --> 01:25:04.720
So anything could happen, and honestly, you know, it's a nimble enough community.
01:25:04.880 --> 01:25:06.880
I think you can always find something new.
01:25:07.039 --> 01:25:14.800
Not that I want to, but um, you know, there's areas of town that no one really expected to see venues in that now there are venues in.
01:25:14.960 --> 01:25:18.800
Uh when you think about New York, it was like Manhattan's where you went to shows.
01:25:18.880 --> 01:25:20.560
Like no one goes to Manhattan to see bands.
01:25:20.640 --> 01:25:27.279
Like, like, you know, I mean, uh they move over to Brooklyn and then they've moved up to like so, you know, LA.
01:25:27.439 --> 01:25:30.319
I mean, you know, rarely are people going to Hollywood to see bands now.
01:25:30.399 --> 01:25:35.279
You there's Eagle Rock and you know, Silver Lake, and so things just push and people find new things.
01:25:35.439 --> 01:25:41.119
But so far, Red River has managed to um build some protections around it.
01:25:41.199 --> 01:25:50.560
And the folks who have venues there have really invested in like keeping it something that we built this, we've spent money, spent time, we put a lot of effort in it.
01:25:50.640 --> 01:25:52.239
We we don't want to see it washed away.
01:25:52.479 --> 01:26:05.039
So I feel like working with the city and cultural district and all the other businesses kind of banding together as like a team as opposed to just having this tribal thing where everyone's just sorted out for themselves has strengthened it so much.
01:26:05.199 --> 01:26:10.000
So I'm hopeful and pretty optimistic that we're gonna continue to see that growth.
01:26:10.159 --> 01:26:32.560
And uh I've even heard like Stubbs and some of those people who own their land like reinvesting and building and adding to it rather than um you know just selling out, which is great because you know, a lot of other folks are just looking for the buyout, and those who are saying we'd rather put some money into it and get investors, but actually improve what we have, like that's exciting.
01:26:32.800 --> 01:26:36.560
And there's that company stream realty or whatever that's bought up about it stuff.
01:26:36.720 --> 01:26:54.560
Supposedly the conversations have been pretty positive from them about like protecting that area and you know, developing, but not in a like tear it down and do something new kind of way, more of a how do we like keep you know the historic stuff and turn that into leaseable space that you know keeps the vibe there.
01:26:54.800 --> 01:26:56.880
So uh yeah, I mean optimistic.
01:26:57.119 --> 01:26:58.079
Yeah, very good.
01:26:58.159 --> 01:27:11.920
Yeah, it's it it's funny how it all kind of comes down to like a vibe in a lot of cases, and and a vibe is not something that you can necessarily like you know touch and feel, yeah, uh and box up, but yet it's it's so super important.
01:27:12.159 --> 01:27:18.239
Yeah, there's definitely a lot of people who don't think about that, especially when you travel and you go to other places, you know, like now this is weird.
01:27:18.399 --> 01:27:36.560
It's like you're in Sib City and it's like a strip mall with a club and it's so awkward, and but then you find those places that not that we're like a New Orleans or something, but like where it's like old and classic and everything's like, oh, this really has a feel to it, you know, like when you go to a to an area with a lot of cool places and Austin's managed to keep that.
01:27:36.640 --> 01:27:44.159
And I'm hopeful that, you know, we don't have with just a a shopping mall where you can go see bands in or something.
01:27:44.399 --> 01:27:45.760
I have been to those.
01:27:47.840 --> 01:28:07.359
You almost expect Red River to exist closer to campus because of the students and the type of people who would go see music, but due to maybe the cost there or zoning with bars and the city being like, oh, you can't have a bunch of bars out here where the stuff we don't want the students getting drunk and UT being like, nah, keep that downtown, make it harder for them.
01:28:07.600 --> 01:28:12.479
It ended up in this one particular street, you know, and what a what an odd little offshoot.
01:28:12.560 --> 01:28:16.000
And then it's interesting that like, well, Sixth Street is like Bourbon Street.
01:28:16.159 --> 01:28:19.119
That's not really like a music zone, it's more of a drinking zone.
01:28:19.359 --> 01:28:34.640
How do you find something that's zoned in a way that can be okay for parking and alcohol uh and noise without houses, but still not be in the same zone that you're trying to avoid.
01:28:34.800 --> 01:28:37.279
Like, so it's it kind of makes sense that it's perpendicular.
01:28:37.439 --> 01:28:40.399
Like, okay, cool, this is music row and then this is party row.
01:28:40.560 --> 01:28:42.880
And they intersect because there's an overlap there.
01:28:43.199 --> 01:28:48.079
But uh, you know, but they share some of the same color palette pieces that make it work.
01:28:48.239 --> 01:28:49.920
Uh, so it's really interesting.
01:28:50.079 --> 01:29:09.920
Uh maybe the you know, the city, it having this like somewhat of a designation, not that it protects it from everything, but it helps, I think at least means that it's on the radar and it's a big conversation and it's not something that can just get thrown away and bulldozed really easily.
01:29:10.159 --> 01:29:24.960
So I do kind of think like being forced into something, it's like, well, if this developer, the city, whoever the city wants this money more than they want the culture that this thing adds, like, how do you swap, how do you make sure you protect it?
01:29:25.039 --> 01:29:36.079
Like, my hope is that Red River's growth and and and the appreciation and people who've worked around it will will make that uh harder to just, you know, disappear.
01:29:36.319 --> 01:29:42.000
And uh it feels like we're in a pretty good place to be able to kind of always negotiate and and make it work.
01:29:42.079 --> 01:29:54.319
And I feel like Red River is in a good place to be like a part of help make those decisions and help guide it forward as opposed to just letting it happen and not having any say, which is exciting um to be a part of.
01:29:54.479 --> 01:29:56.800
So yeah, fingers crossed.
01:29:57.439 --> 01:30:02.239
Thanks for joining us for the Red River Podcast, a production of the Red River Cultural District.
01:30:02.399 --> 01:30:11.039
To learn more about how the district is working to preserve and support Austin's DIY arts and live music community, visit Red River Culturaldistrict.org.
01:30:11.279 --> 01:30:21.600
The Red River Podcast is a part of a larger storytelling project called Cultural Curative, celebrating Austin's live music and preserving the stories of the sounds and sphere of Red River.
01:30:21.760 --> 01:30:25.439
Your host has been Greg Beethoven audio production by Richard Weimar.
01:30:25.920 --> 01:30:28.560
Music is live by Kyle Keith.
01:30:28.800 --> 01:30:29.840
And I'm Kine Keith.
01:30:30.239 --> 01:30:31.279
Thanks for listening.