Rocky

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Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Movie Guide.
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I am Brendan Dando of the Four Finger Discount Network,
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joined right now by Guy Davis.
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Hey there, Dando. And the little molten. How are you, sir?
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Hello there. I'm fine. Thank you.
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Now, Guy, do you have the eye? Do I have
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the eye of the tiger? Well, it needs a little
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additional enhancement these days, thanks to the specs. But yeah,
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the eye of the tiger. What are we talking about? Oh,
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Dando's always telegraphing his punches, one might say.
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Let me just say one thing before we officially start, Guy. Mm-hmm.
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I distinctly remember a conversation I had with a friend
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who was in the business, movie business. He told me
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about an actor I was going to hear a lot
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about named Sylvester Stallone. I said, there's never going to
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be a movie star with the first name Sylvester. It
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ain't going to happen. That was my knee-jerk reaction. I
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was proven wrong. Dead wrong.
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Leonard, we are glad you're a big enough man to
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admit your mistakes. I think more than a few probably
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would have been in agreement with you. Sylvester is not
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necessarily the kind of name that you expect to see
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on a movie marquee, but someone has to break the mold.
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Someone has to be the pioneer. Someone has to be
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the trailblazer. And in this case, it was Sylvester Stallone,
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a man who has made a career out of defying expectations.
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And it all really started with the movie we're going
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to talk about today, 1976 is Rocky. Why are we
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talking about it? Because, like its title character, the Rocky
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saga just won't stay down. It just keeps getting up
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to take another swing.
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They're doing another movie about the making of Rocky and
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the making of Stallone for that called I Play Rocky.
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Indeed, yes. This will be coming out by the end
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of the year. Yeah, the movie I Play Rocky. It's
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a biopic dramatizing Stallone's rise to bring his star-making project
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to the screen the way he envisioned it. I've got
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to admit, I'm really intrigued by it. I thought this
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is going to be not a terrible cash grab, but
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a good exercise in brand management by Stallone. But looking
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at it, it's like, this looks really entertaining and really
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kind of fun. And Stallone is such a singular presence
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in so many ways that it almost seems like a
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fool's errand for someone to try and portray him. But
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they found this young actor named Anthony Ippolito, He seems
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to be making a career out of playing American acting
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icons because not only is he playing Stallone in this movie,
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but his biggest role prior to this was playing Al
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Pacino in the TV miniseries The Offer, which was about
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the making of The Godfather. Hopefully this guy's going to
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find a character to play that's something else because he's
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going to get typecast. But yeah, the Rocky saga... it
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just keeps going on and on. It's had many, many
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sequels over the years. It's had director's cuts. Stallone, not
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long ago, went into the editing bay and recut Rocky IV.
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He made it a lot more the way that he
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actually envisioned it as opposed to the way it came
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out in the mid-' 80s. It's got spin-offs like the Creed trilogy,
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and it's got so many proposed prequels and sequels and
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spin-offs that are all in various stages of development. But
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it all began with this. It all began with one
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man and his dream.
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And I think that knowing that story, knowing that he
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was 100 to one shot or a million to one
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shot as a screenwriter and as an actor, it sort
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of spilled over into the audience response to the movie itself.
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You can't always separate art from the artist. Stallone's story
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parallels Rocky's story. And I think that's why it would
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otherwise be considered a B-movie script from the 1940s. played
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so well in the 1970s. It continues to play well.
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Absolutely, yeah. I mean, revisiting this 50 years on from
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its first release, it still plays just as well. I mean,
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it is slow and detailed in the way that a
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lot of 1970s movies are, but it also, I don't know,
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it feels like it really set the tone for how
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movies would be in the later half of the 70s
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and in the 80s moving forward. It's such a stirring
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and moving and get-up-and-go underdog story. It's almost got the
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best of both worlds. It feels very gritty and very
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street-level and very real, but also very aspirational. And it
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became a global phenomenon as a result.
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Absolutely. And you wonder how they could have done a
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Rocky II, let alone a Rocky III, IV, V. How
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do you turn this guy into an underdog again? But
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they did it, and we bought it again and again
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and again. And then Creed, on a parallel track, they've
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done it again. You can't kill it with a stick. Well,
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it's funny.
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I want to talk about how all of the Rocky movies,
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they all, I mean, you talked about how the underdog
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story of Rocky, the character parallels the underdog story of Stallone,
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the artist. And that's very much the case. But I
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think if you look at all the Rocky movies, they talk,
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it's Stallone talking about where he is in his career
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and where he is as an artist. I mean, Rocky
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II is very much him saying, can I pull this
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off again? you know, am I just a one-hit wonder?
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Am I just a fluke? Then you've got Rocky III,
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which has the character of Rocky, you know, hitting the
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heights of success and, you know, wondering how he can
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maintain that if he still has the hunger to keep
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creating art or, in Rocky's case, stay in the ring
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and keep taking the punches and, you know, actually succeed.
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Rocky IV, I think, is about Stallone wrestling with this
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notion that he's become this all-American icon because by that time,
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you know, Rocky was this, yeah, character that presidents were
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talking about or, you know, ronald reagan i think was
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sort of talking about um global politics in relation to
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stallone's characters rocky five is perhaps stallone thinking is my
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career on the wane and how would i deal with
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that and then the sixth movie rocky balboa is i
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don't know a summation of all that him looking back
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at what what things are done and realizing i still
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have something to give i'm not done just quite yet
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i think yeah i mean i think it's a It's
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a really interesting way to look at these movies that
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could just be seen about a slugger getting into the
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ring and trading punches with yet another opponent.
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Was there a genuine excitement when there was news of
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a new Rocky film coming out when they were originally released?
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Yeah, there was. Each one had a new actor and
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a new character. Who's Rocky going to fight this time?
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Who's going to play that guy? I think that was
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the tease that got people interested and excited.
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Yeah, I mean... Rocky is an easy character to cheer for.
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He's an easy character to cheer on. But I think
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the movies themselves really rise and fall based on the opponent.
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Stallone's been very, very smart in casting very large-than-life personalities
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to appear alongside him to get into the ring and
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trade blows with him. It's Mr. T in Rocky III.
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I re-watched Rocky III the other night.
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Mr.
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T's really quite incredible in it. Not the most polished actor.
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He's more a personality than an actor, but Clubber Lang
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is just the wrong guy to mess with, and he
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puts that across so well. You feel genuinely scared for
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Rocky getting into the ring with this guy. And then likewise,
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Drago in Rocky IV, I mean, casting Dolph Lundgren, who
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was an unknown at that stage. I think he worked
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as a bodyguard and maybe boyfriend to Grace Jones. I
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think he might have been a doorman at Studio 54
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or something like that. But just this incredible physical specimen,
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almost the absolute embodiment of scientific-made muscle. It's one of
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the reasons that Rocky V doesn't work, because they don't
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give him a strong opponent. But, yeah, I think that's
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very much the case.
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You also can't forget Hulk Hogan.
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You cannot forget Hulk Hogan. Thunderlips. Who can forget Thunderlips?
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No, would we?
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But, look, this is more about Stallone and more about
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the character of Rocky than anything else. Everyone has seen Rocky,
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but quick, a brief synopsis. Rocky Balboa is a small-time
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heavyweight boxer. He's scraping together a living as a debt
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collector for a gangster... when he's not making a few
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bucks in low-rent fights.
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In Philadelphia.
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In Philadelphia, correct. Philadelphia is as much a character as
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any of the people in this movie. Rocky's fortunes change, however,
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when the world heavyweight champion Apollo Creed needs an opponent
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for a title fight, and he offers a shot to
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the Italian Stallion. Creed thinks it's going to be little
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more than an exhibition match, and Rocky knows that he
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can't win, but he wants to go the distance. He
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wants to last all 15 rounds. That'll be a real
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victory for the fighter that no one ever believed in.
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How can you not be into a story like that?
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I mean, it's aspirational, but it's also realistic. I love
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that Rocky's like, yeah, I can't beat this guy. I'm
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not that good a fighter. But if I can go
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15 rounds and stay standing in something that no one's
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ever done, I'll know there's more to me than everyone
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else is saying. There's more, yeah. I'm not the loser
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that everybody thinks I am. That's a great story. And
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I think that's something that everyone can relate to in
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some ways. Yeah, absolutely.
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Absolutely. And then there's the parallel story of his girlfriend
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and her very strange brother.
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Very strange is a polite way of putting it. Paulie's
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a piece of crap. He's garbage, that man.
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I don't get Paulie. I never did. But I like
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Burgess Miller's performance as the prize fight manager. Very gritty
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performance from a wonderful and versatile actor.
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That's correct.
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And then Talia Shire as Adrian is just right. Mousy
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would be a minimal way of describing her when we
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first encounter her at the pet shop. And she doesn't
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suddenly take off her eyeglass, doesn't become a raging beauty,
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but she gains confidence. Rocky instills confidence in her.
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That's the thing, yeah. I mean, Rocky's not the only
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character who changes and grows throughout this story. I mean,
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everyone is lifted up. by being in Rocky's orbit, whether
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it's Burgess Meredith's Mickey, whose glory days are behind him,
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or whether it's Adrian, who seems resigned to this lesser life,
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you know, being in the shadow of this belligerent brother
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of hers. But Rocky believes in himself, and he believes
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in the people around him, and they are all, yeah,
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uplifted as a result, which, you know, I think that's
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why people respond to the character Rocky and they respond
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to this story so much. I mean, something I thought
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re-watching this is there's no real villain in Rocky. If
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there's a villain, it's self-doubt and it's not believing in yourself.
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And if you can overcome that, you know, then your
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dreams can come true. It's really fantastic in that regard.
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Under the heading of show, don't tell, the first time
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he goes up that steep set of steps in Philadelphia
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to the museum, You feel his pain. I mean, you
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can feel how tough it is to do what he's doing.
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And contrast that with the later reprise of the same action,
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and it's surefire. It's audience-proof.
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Oh, yeah.
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No one can not respond. You have to be dead
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from the neck up not to respond to that. With
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the Bill Conti music.
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Oh, of course, yeah, which is, to use your favorite word, iconic.
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It really is.
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Mm-hmm.
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It is.
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The Rocky theme is as pivotal to the success of
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Rocky as anything that Stallone does on screen or at
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the typewriter. Yeah, but I was thinking about it. I mean,
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America really needed a win when Rocky came out in
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the mid-70s. I mean, the country's gone through years of
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political and economic and social turmoil. So, I mean, I
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think you need an underdog story about this lovable loser
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who grabs his perhaps last chance at glory and he
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changes his life for the better. through drive and determination.
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I think a lot of viewers saw themselves in Rocky,
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and I think they still do. I mean, there's footage
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to this day. You're talking about those stairs at the
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Philadelphia Museum of Art. There's footage to this day of
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people jogging up those stairs and doing the champion pose
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at the top. I think that speaks volumes about what
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this movie says to people. I certainly know that when
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I saw it back in 1976, and I was just
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a kid. I mean, I was just like a literal child.
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I walked out of it going, Not that I wanted
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to be a fighter or anything like that, but I
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started running around the block. I wanted to be like Rocky.
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I was like, yeah, if this guy can do it,
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anyone can do it. You know, even a seven-year-old kid
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from Geelong.
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Right. Well, he's the ultimate everyman, isn't he?
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Yeah, very, very much so. And it's funny watching Stallone
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at this period of his career as an actor as well.
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I mean, he wasn't an unknown. He'd had roles in
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a fair few movies, you know, some B movies for
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Roger Corman. I think he had a very small bit
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part in a Woody Allen movie. And he was one
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of the leads in a movie called The Lords of Flatbush,
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opposite Henry Winkler. So he was no one's idea of
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a star. And indeed, when he wrote this script and
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sold it to United Artists, they wanted anyone but Stallone
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in the lead. They thought it was ridiculous that he
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would play Rocky, which is the whole conceit of this
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I Play Rocky movie that's coming up. They're talking about
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people like Bronson, like Eastwood, like James Caan, even people
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like Robert Redford. But no, Stallone was adamant. He's like, no, no,
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it's me.
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This man, with few credentials to back him up, turned
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down an enormous amount of money for his original screenplay
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and sucks with guns. He said, either I get to
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star in this movie or it doesn't get made. Period. Yeah.
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And this is a guy who was so flat broke
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that he had to sell his dog. The dog that
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appears in the movie is his actual dog.
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Was that decision because he knew he was the man
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for the role or was it because he also wanted
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to be a star?
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Both.
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I think he realised that, yeah, it's both. But I
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think he realised, this is my golden opportunity.
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Yeah.
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No one's ever going to give me a part like this.
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I have to create one for myself. And if they
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want to give it to someone else, then no, they
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can't have it. There's a really interesting story that I
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discovered about Rocky. Apparently, during all the to and fro
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with the script, It made its way to the television
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network ABC. They were going to repurpose it as a
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vehicle for Henry Winkler, who was, of course, the Fonz
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at that time. And it was also Stallone's co-star in
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that movie, The Lords of Flatbush. It came very, very
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close to getting made that way. And Stallone went to
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Winkler and basically begged. He said, this is my one shot.
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This is the role that I made for myself. And Winkler,
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to his credit, said, okay, sell it back to Stallone.
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He went to the network and said, sell it back
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to Stallone for the amount that you paid for it.
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And he had enough clout because he was the Fonz
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to say, if you don't do this, then there's no
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more happy days. And then there's a really smooth move
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on Henry Winkler's part.
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Well done.
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You mentioned before, Leonard, how this is very much an
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old-fashioned script in a lot of ways. Feels like it
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could have been made in the 40s or something like
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that as a bit of a B-picture. This is a
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screenplay that, did the screenplay win? It didn't win Best
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Screenwriting Oscar, did it? It did win Best Picture, however.
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Yes, it did.
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You've got a lot of people who sing the praises
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of the Rocky screenplay, not just because it is a
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real sort of uplifting, motivational underdog story, just it's really
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well done. I mean, William Goldman is probably one of
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the most famous and well-regarded screenwriters. He's a huge fan
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of it and said, I don't know the proper definition
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of a screenplay, but it might be anything you can
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come up with to involve an audience in any way
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you can. And I think Rocky does that all the
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way through. There are so many great character beats and
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great storyline moments that really get you on Rocky's side.
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Some of them are repandering, but some of them are
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genuinely earned, I think.
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Well, I just watched it after 50 years.
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Oh, wow.
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After 50 years, I watched it start to finish, my
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wife and I. We were just taken in, completely taken
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in by it. Were we being manipulated?
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Sure.
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But to our pleasure.
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Manipulation's not easy. Not everyone can pull it off.
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No.
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00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:59.059
I want to talk about Carl Weathers. Why was Carl
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00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:02.139
Weathers not a superstar? Why was he not A-list? It's
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00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:04.509
an injustice, I tell you. He plays Apollo Creed in
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this movie, and he is fantastic. He's so good.
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He's just right.
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Yeah, yeah.
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He's just right.
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Not the first choice for the role. Not a boxer, apparently.
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But they wanted a real-life boxer named Ken Norton to
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play the lead. But Carl Weathers got it, and I'm
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00:16:17.850 --> 00:16:21.330
glad they did, because... Yeah, there's just great acting work
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00:16:21.370 --> 00:16:23.350
from here. Of course, he nails the physicality. He's in
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fantastic shape. And he's got great chemistry with Stallone as well.
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I mean, we see that in the later movies. There's
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not so much of it here. But yeah, I was
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00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:34.080
just a big, big fan of what Carl Weathers does
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00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:36.360
in this and did in just about everything. Yeah, he
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00:16:36.379 --> 00:16:38.940
was a fantastic actor and a terrific screen presence. But
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00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:40.679
I want to give shout outs to two supporting actors
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00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:42.440
in this movie who don't have a lot to do,
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but do a lot with it, I think. Because this
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movie is studded with the kind of faces you don't
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00:16:48.269 --> 00:16:52.889
really see in movies anymore, real character actors. And there's
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00:16:52.970 --> 00:16:56.700
a guy named Thayer David. He plays the fire promoter Jurgens.
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00:16:56.740 --> 00:16:59.879
He's a guy who, he's sort of working alongside Apollo.
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00:17:00.059 --> 00:17:01.419
He wants to put on a good show. He wants
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to make as much money as he can, of course. And,
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you know, when he's got the, when the idea comes
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that you're going to put this guy who's essentially Muhammad
352
00:17:11.019 --> 00:17:14.240
Ali up against this nobody, it's like, oh, this is,
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00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:15.869
people are just going to be flocking to see this.
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00:17:16.119 --> 00:17:19.539
But he develops a genuine respect for Rocky's courage and
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00:17:19.579 --> 00:17:22.180
determination along the way. And it's just played very, very subtly.
356
00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:23.700
But I thought it was done so well.
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00:17:24.180 --> 00:17:27.049
Yeah. He makes an impression. Well, he was a big man.
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He makes a big impression.
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00:17:28.950 --> 00:17:31.910
He certainly does. And there's a guy that I like
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00:17:31.950 --> 00:17:34.890
a lot. He's a legendary B-movie star named Joe Spinell.
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00:17:35.390 --> 00:17:38.369
He's been in so many movies. And he's got the
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00:17:38.410 --> 00:17:39.670
kind of face that you would- Countless.
363
00:17:39.690 --> 00:17:39.789
Yeah.
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00:17:39.809 --> 00:17:40.529
Countless movies.
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00:17:40.569 --> 00:17:44.079
Countless movies. some better than others. He's in The Godfather
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00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:47.000
Part II. He's also in the Grindhouse classic Maniac. He
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00:17:47.019 --> 00:17:50.750
plays Gazzo the gangster, who is Rocky's employer, essentially. He's
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00:17:50.769 --> 00:17:52.809
the one who tells Rocky to break a thumb or
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00:17:52.849 --> 00:17:56.210
two if this guy is late with his loan shark repayments.
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00:17:56.509 --> 00:17:59.519
But he's got a real soft spot for Rocky. And yeah,
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00:17:59.859 --> 00:18:02.480
proves to be a bit of a support, bit of
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00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:04.599
a corner man. I don't know. We used to have
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character actors that had faces, damn it. And Rocky's full
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of characters like that. I think it's one of the
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reasons the movie works. But it really works primarily because
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00:18:14.829 --> 00:18:15.369
of Stallone.
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00:18:16.029 --> 00:18:20.390
Who's doing wonderful work in Tulsa Kings. He's playing himself.
378
00:18:22.450 --> 00:18:24.579
He's the Stallone we think he is.
379
00:18:24.900 --> 00:18:25.220
Sure.
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00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:28.980
He may not really be, but it works. Well, that's it.
381
00:18:29.019 --> 00:18:31.759
I mean, people poke fun at Stallone for either what
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00:18:31.799 --> 00:18:35.200
they consider limited acting range or the way he carries himself.
383
00:18:36.130 --> 00:18:38.190
I think the man is probably one of the best
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00:18:38.250 --> 00:18:40.819
examples of brand management in Hollywood history. I mean, you
385
00:18:40.859 --> 00:18:43.240
don't stick around for 50 years if you don't have
386
00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:47.440
something going for you. And I mean, he's worked consistently
387
00:18:47.460 --> 00:18:49.720
throughout that time and been a star in pretty much
388
00:18:49.900 --> 00:18:54.069
every decade since he came to prominence. But it's funny
389
00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:57.970
watching the trailer for Rocky. They're working overtime, first of all,
390
00:18:57.990 --> 00:19:01.289
to introduce you to Sly, but also to place him
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00:19:01.309 --> 00:19:04.930
in the pantheon of legitimate actors and legitimate sort of
392
00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:09.160
method actors of that time. I mean, the writer's saying,
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00:19:09.779 --> 00:19:12.700
people are calling Sylvester Stallone the new Brando, the new
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00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:14.940
De Niro, the new Pacino. It's like, I don't think
395
00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:17.339
we're quite there yet, but you also see in his
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00:19:17.380 --> 00:19:19.880
performance that that's the kind of actor that he wants
397
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.650
to be, but with his own, putting his own spin
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00:19:22.670 --> 00:19:25.210
on it, his own physical spin on it. It's really
399
00:19:25.250 --> 00:19:27.950
interesting to watch. Are you up for a lightning round, Leonard?
400
00:19:28.250 --> 00:19:30.309
Did you feel like you could rank the Rocky movies?
401
00:19:30.869 --> 00:19:31.069
No.
402
00:19:31.589 --> 00:19:33.630
Oh, boy. I invite you to do so.
403
00:19:33.849 --> 00:19:35.680
I'll give it a try. I think you've got to
404
00:19:35.700 --> 00:19:38.119
go with the original. I think one is at one.
405
00:19:38.789 --> 00:19:42.250
I'm going to go Rocky III for second place. I
406
00:19:42.289 --> 00:19:46.069
find it incredibly entertaining. It's a tie between Rocky II
407
00:19:46.089 --> 00:19:49.309
and Rocky IV for third place. Rocky Balboa, a lot
408
00:19:49.329 --> 00:19:50.599
of people liked it. They thought it was a bit
409
00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:53.079
of a return to form and a nice sort of
410
00:19:53.460 --> 00:19:57.519
mellow coda to the series. So yeah, I'm not as
411
00:19:57.539 --> 00:19:58.680
huge a fan of it, so I'll put it there,
412
00:19:58.700 --> 00:20:00.539
but Rocky V definitely belongs in the basement.
413
00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:01.069
It's no good.
414
00:20:01.180 --> 00:20:04.039
Even though director John G. Avildsen did come back, I
415
00:20:04.059 --> 00:20:06.660
think it's sort of misbegotten from the jump. Yeah, so
416
00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:09.079
not that great. And the Creed movies are their own thing.
417
00:20:09.099 --> 00:20:11.960
The Creed movies are marvelous. Have we talked about Creed much?
418
00:20:12.039 --> 00:20:14.309
I don't think we've ever given them their own episode,
419
00:20:14.329 --> 00:20:16.950
have we, Dan? Perhaps we should. They're very, very good indeed.
420
00:20:17.309 --> 00:20:20.210
I had a wonderful night at my class at USC
421
00:20:20.509 --> 00:20:24.029
here in Los Angeles. Ryan Coogler took my class. He's
422
00:20:24.089 --> 00:20:27.740
a USC cinema grad, and he continues to work with
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00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:30.660
people that he met when he was a student. So
424
00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:33.619
we had nine people on stage after the screening of
425
00:20:33.660 --> 00:20:37.740
the film. And I introduced them one by one. Ludwig Gorenson,
426
00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:43.039
his composer, and Seb Ohanian, his producing partner, and Sylvester Stallone. Oh.
427
00:20:43.579 --> 00:20:47.569
And I saved them for last, obviously, trying to be showman-like.
428
00:20:47.990 --> 00:20:48.609
And it worked.
429
00:20:49.549 --> 00:20:52.829
The place went mad. The crowd roared. It was everything
430
00:20:52.849 --> 00:20:53.609
I could have hoped for.
431
00:20:54.009 --> 00:20:56.230
Clearly, he forgave you for that bad review you gave
432
00:20:56.289 --> 00:20:57.630
Rhinestone back in the day.
433
00:20:57.690 --> 00:20:57.809
Yes.
434
00:20:58.890 --> 00:21:01.539
He just has a faulty memory, that's all.
435
00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:04.039
Well, he's really good in Creed.
436
00:21:04.180 --> 00:21:05.140
He sure is.
437
00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:09.420
He gives a really legitimately good performance. I can understand
438
00:21:09.500 --> 00:21:13.369
why he seemed legitimately put out when he was not
439
00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:16.410
given the Oscar that year. I think that Mark Rylance
440
00:21:16.430 --> 00:21:18.369
for Bridge of Spies won Best Supporting Actor at the
441
00:21:18.430 --> 00:21:21.089
Oscars that year. I think everyone thought that it was
442
00:21:21.130 --> 00:21:24.130
Stallone's to lose. It's a real shame that he didn't.
443
00:21:24.150 --> 00:21:25.410
I think it would have been a great capper on
444
00:21:25.430 --> 00:21:35.619
a remarkable career. Double feature time. Would you like to
445
00:21:36.220 --> 00:21:38.180
pair the original Rocky with anything, Leonard?
446
00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:40.700
I don't think you want another sports movie. I think
447
00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:42.920
you want something different. What were you thinking of?
448
00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:44.400
Well, there are a few, and I mean, I want
449
00:21:44.420 --> 00:21:46.940
to stay on the Stallone track. There's a movie he
450
00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:51.319
made in the late 90s called Copland, a really terrific
451
00:21:51.380 --> 00:21:55.759
ensemble piece about a town that's basically populated by corrupt
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00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:58.009
cops from New York City. This is a small New
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00:21:58.029 --> 00:22:01.109
Jersey town where Stallone is the sheriff, regarded as a
454
00:22:01.150 --> 00:22:03.970
cross between a mascot and a joke. by the quote-unquote
455
00:22:04.109 --> 00:22:06.970
real cops. But when a crime is committed, Stallone is
456
00:22:06.990 --> 00:22:10.200
the one who actually risks body and soul to solve it.
457
00:22:11.509 --> 00:22:13.759
I think he viewed this as an opportunity to show, no,
458
00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:17.519
I'm capable of legitimately good acting. And he's up against
459
00:22:17.539 --> 00:22:20.799
people like De Niro and Keitel and Ray Liotta, all
460
00:22:20.839 --> 00:22:23.559
of whom are giving fantastic performances. And Stallone acquits himself
461
00:22:23.660 --> 00:22:28.190
so well in it. I think it's a really intriguing
462
00:22:28.630 --> 00:22:31.369
look at the path that was possibly not taken by Stallone.
463
00:22:31.970 --> 00:22:33.329
So yeah, that's certainly one.
464
00:22:33.750 --> 00:22:35.670
Maybe not necessarily a double feature, but what's a film
465
00:22:35.710 --> 00:22:37.980
that you feel like if you love Rocky, you may
466
00:22:38.099 --> 00:22:40.299
also enjoy this? So you don't have to watch from
467
00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:41.599
back to back, but what is a film that you
468
00:22:41.619 --> 00:22:43.559
would also enjoy if you enjoy Rocky?
469
00:22:43.940 --> 00:22:46.039
I've spoken about this movie a lot. It's one that
470
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:50.680
I wholeheartedly recommend to anyone who enjoys a good under
471
00:22:50.700 --> 00:22:54.390
the story. It's a movie called Warrior from 2010. It's
472
00:22:54.650 --> 00:22:57.170
got a mixed martial arts sort of milieu about it,
473
00:22:57.210 --> 00:22:58.410
but it's about two brothers who.
474
00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:00.160
Yeah.
475
00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:02.769
Both fighters, one played by Australia's own Joel Edgerton, one
476
00:23:02.789 --> 00:23:06.910
played by Tom Hardy. Uh, they've got a very complicated
477
00:23:06.930 --> 00:23:09.970
relationship with them, uh, between themselves and with their father
478
00:23:09.990 --> 00:23:13.410
played by Nick Nolte. It's, it's very much in the
479
00:23:13.450 --> 00:23:16.329
Rocky vein. I think it's, you know, really character driven.
480
00:23:16.769 --> 00:23:18.750
It's got great uplift. I mean, uh, it's going to
481
00:23:18.769 --> 00:23:20.329
make you want to run around the block or maybe,
482
00:23:20.369 --> 00:23:21.950
you know, try and get in the octagon and play
483
00:23:21.990 --> 00:23:27.119
and go a few rounds. Fantastic performances and just incredibly moving. It's, um,
484
00:23:28.450 --> 00:23:30.390
I don't know, one of the top five male weepies
485
00:23:30.410 --> 00:23:32.930
for me. I can't watch the end scene without tearing up.
486
00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:35.339
It's so, so good. Warrior.
487
00:23:35.740 --> 00:23:39.000
Leonard, you mentioned that Stallone came to your class earlier.
488
00:23:39.500 --> 00:23:42.180
Did you ever deal with him during your time at E.T.?
489
00:23:42.339 --> 00:23:43.869
Did you do any press for him for the Rocky
490
00:23:43.900 --> 00:23:45.930
films or any of his other successful films?
491
00:23:46.650 --> 00:23:51.589
I interviewed him for Daylight and had him sign the
492
00:23:51.650 --> 00:23:52.869
published script of Rocky.
493
00:23:53.549 --> 00:23:53.829
Oh, yeah.
494
00:23:54.230 --> 00:23:57.099
And he was very genial, easy to talk to.
495
00:23:57.730 --> 00:24:00.410
He seems someone who's very aware of his public persona.
496
00:24:00.430 --> 00:24:03.880
Oh, duh, yeah. Yeah. Did you see the documentary he
497
00:24:03.900 --> 00:24:04.660
made about himself?
498
00:24:04.940 --> 00:24:08.400
I did, yeah. And again, this is called Sly. It's
499
00:24:08.460 --> 00:24:12.160
on Netflix. It's one of those ones that feels kind
500
00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:17.039
of authorized. He's revealing just enough, but not too much. Right.
501
00:24:17.339 --> 00:24:19.220
I think I came away from it thinking, I don't
502
00:24:19.259 --> 00:24:22.900
know any more about Sylvester Stallone than he wants me
503
00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:25.440
to know. And that's his prerogative, man. But I mean- Mm-hmm.
504
00:24:25.980 --> 00:24:27.619
You know, there was stuff in there about, say, his
505
00:24:27.660 --> 00:24:29.940
relationship with his son, who I think had passed away
506
00:24:29.980 --> 00:24:32.079
at that time, which I found really quite moving. And
507
00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:34.119
a lot of that has bled through into the Rocky
508
00:24:34.140 --> 00:24:36.400
movies because I think, yeah, as I said, the character
509
00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:39.680
of Rocky and the character of Sylvester Stallone are very
510
00:24:39.740 --> 00:24:42.980
sort of closely intertwined. But there was also a lot
511
00:24:43.009 --> 00:24:44.829
of other stuff that I think you didn't really go
512
00:24:45.150 --> 00:24:47.809
as deep into that as I thought you might. But
513
00:24:48.430 --> 00:24:49.990
he's got a book coming out as well. I think
514
00:24:50.009 --> 00:24:53.210
Stallone's very much entered his elder statesman era, what with...
515
00:24:53.930 --> 00:24:55.970
what with I Play Rocky, but he's got a memoir
516
00:24:56.009 --> 00:24:58.589
coming out called The Steps, which sort of seems part
517
00:24:58.670 --> 00:25:01.599
autobiography and part self-help manifesto. I think it's going to
518
00:25:01.619 --> 00:25:03.859
be pretty interesting to read that. I think he's a very,
519
00:25:03.900 --> 00:25:06.359
very smart guy who it's easy to underrate, but I
520
00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:10.420
think sometimes he is also very accurately rated, shall we say.
521
00:25:10.740 --> 00:25:12.799
Do you think Rocky is one of the most motivational,
522
00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:15.569
if not the most motivational movie character of all time?
523
00:25:15.829 --> 00:25:17.750
Oh, God, yeah.
524
00:25:17.750 --> 00:25:18.809
100%. Right up there.
525
00:25:19.069 --> 00:25:21.410
Yeah, yeah. I mean, this is a guy who comes
526
00:25:21.450 --> 00:25:24.740
from nothing and... becomes the champion of the world, not
527
00:25:24.779 --> 00:25:28.319
purely by belief in himself, but also the belief that
528
00:25:28.339 --> 00:25:30.160
he has in people around him, and that is reflected
529
00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:31.740
back to him. Yeah, I think it's a really powerful
530
00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:34.450
and positive lesson. As I said, you look at those
531
00:25:34.490 --> 00:25:37.089
people running up the steps of that museum in Philadelphia,
532
00:25:37.130 --> 00:25:39.089
they all want to be Rocky, or they all see
533
00:25:39.130 --> 00:25:42.630
themselves in Rocky. I think, no, it's a good question, Dan,
534
00:25:42.650 --> 00:25:44.569
and I think that's, yeah, 100% the case.
535
00:25:44.670 --> 00:25:47.099
All right, everybody, hope you enjoyed that review there of
536
00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:49.799
Rocky and the Rocky franchise. Don't forget you can support
537
00:25:49.819 --> 00:25:52.920
the show on Patreon.com, to get early and ad-free access
538
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:55.500
to this show, as well as access to exclusive reviews
539
00:25:55.619 --> 00:25:58.349
as well on our Patreon channel. Please continue to rate
540
00:25:58.440 --> 00:26:01.049
and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you do
541
00:26:01.269 --> 00:26:03.650
find this show. Check us five stars, leave us a
542
00:26:03.690 --> 00:26:06.089
few kind words, that would be much appreciated. And please
543
00:26:06.109 --> 00:26:08.549
continue to get in touch with Leonard and Guy. It
544
00:26:08.589 --> 00:26:12.890
is themovieguidepodcast at gmail.com. Keep sending all your messages and
545
00:26:12.990 --> 00:26:15.630
questions through and we'll answer them in an upcoming edition
546
00:26:15.730 --> 00:26:16.990
of the Molten Mailbag.
547
00:26:17.029 --> 00:26:19.190
But for now, Guy, thanks for joining us. Yo, Dando,
548
00:26:19.210 --> 00:26:21.259
we did it. Thank you, the Leonard Molten.
549
00:26:21.700 --> 00:26:22.210
Cut through it.
550
00:26:22.759 --> 00:26:24.380
And we'll catch you all in the next episode of
551
00:26:24.420 --> 00:26:26.150
The Movie Guide with Moulton and Davis.
552
00:26:26.450 --> 00:26:26.970
See you all.