WEBVTT
1
00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:10.279
Welcome, welcome to the deep end. We're number 435.
2
00:00:10.279 --> 00:00:13.320
It's hard to believe we've been on.
3
00:00:13.820 --> 00:00:14.869
The air that long.
4
00:00:14.900 --> 00:00:19.350
We came here from radio and I have to say
5
00:00:19.370 --> 00:00:20.550
I've had the best time.
6
00:00:21.260 --> 00:00:23.800
I'm thinking about stuff. I love ideas.
7
00:00:23.839 --> 00:00:26.079
Here at The Deep End, we try to pull the
8
00:00:26.140 --> 00:00:28.140
thread of every idea we can.
9
00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:30.699
And this week, I had a great week.
10
00:00:31.300 --> 00:00:34.490
Has anyone else ever noticed, at least now, that some
11
00:00:34.570 --> 00:00:38.409
of the deepest and widest truths coming to.
12
00:00:38.509 --> 00:00:42.450
Us are now from comedians? So today, we make a
13
00:00:42.490 --> 00:00:45.969
deep dive into comedians. Comedian prophets.
14
00:00:45.990 --> 00:00:50.909
It seems comedy has a strange relationship with truth. They
15
00:00:50.929 --> 00:00:54.030
seem to be allowed to say things most of us
16
00:00:54.109 --> 00:00:57.950
are afraid to say. As well, they show us some
17
00:00:58.090 --> 00:01:01.579
different ways of looking at the world and our situation
18
00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:06.840
and our relationships to it. I think comedians stand out,
19
00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:10.859
stand there at the vortex of several forces that are
20
00:01:10.900 --> 00:01:11.739
working together.
21
00:01:13.049 --> 00:01:15.450
Comedian as prophet.
22
00:01:16.909 --> 00:01:19.569
When you start thinking that way when you start thinking
23
00:01:19.609 --> 00:01:24.390
that way and seeing it that way it's amazing what
24
00:01:24.469 --> 00:01:29.579
the world starts looking like you know to me there's
25
00:01:29.620 --> 00:01:33.799
this prophetic quality that comes from these forces uh and
26
00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:36.659
they i want to just look at them real briefly
27
00:01:39.549 --> 00:01:42.109
First of all, I think comedians stand a little bit
28
00:01:42.250 --> 00:01:46.379
outside the tribe. A comedian's job is to almost notice
29
00:01:46.420 --> 00:01:52.219
the contradictions everybody else has normalized. Bluntly put, a politician
30
00:01:52.260 --> 00:01:56.400
would say, this policy will bring us together. Well, everyone
31
00:01:56.459 --> 00:01:59.939
can see that that policy is dividing people. The comedian
32
00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:05.750
points out the contradiction and laughs. Distance gives comedy a
33
00:02:05.829 --> 00:02:13.050
kind of cultural peripheral vision. Another thing comedians understand is
34
00:02:13.129 --> 00:02:14.889
laughter lowers defenses.
35
00:02:15.770 --> 00:02:17.930
The laugh is important. The ego relaxes.
36
00:02:18.009 --> 00:02:21.210
It recognizes something's true before it doesn't have time to
37
00:02:21.250 --> 00:02:25.449
construct an argument against us. It's like the comedian can
38
00:02:25.569 --> 00:02:29.969
smuggle truth past the guards of the mind. As well,
39
00:02:30.069 --> 00:02:37.439
comedians are professional pattern recognizers. This to me is brilliant
40
00:02:37.860 --> 00:02:41.469
when I listen to comedians. They're constantly asking what's going
41
00:02:41.629 --> 00:02:49.530
on here. They watch language, behavior, technology, politics, relationships, advertising, status, hypocrisy.
42
00:02:50.949 --> 00:02:51.590
And fear.
43
00:02:51.889 --> 00:02:59.199
And they notice the small changes before those changes become obvious. Now,
44
00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:01.979
I'm going to suggest this is very similar to what
45
00:03:02.020 --> 00:03:05.039
a prophet does. A prophet sees a pattern in the
46
00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:10.240
present and extrapolates its meaning into the future. Another thing
47
00:03:10.819 --> 00:03:16.419
that comedians do, it's important for us to see that
48
00:03:16.520 --> 00:03:22.560
absurdity is often an early warning system. Many things look
49
00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:26.879
very ridiculous before they look dangerous. Can I mention our president?
50
00:03:28.099 --> 00:03:31.219
Years later, we realize that what they were laughing at
51
00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:36.099
on The Simpsons wasn't merely funny. It was a symptom.
52
00:03:38.090 --> 00:03:42.180
And they weren't necessarily predicting the future. They were seeing
53
00:03:42.219 --> 00:03:47.620
the present more clearly, a higher resolution. You know, and
54
00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:51.319
I wasn't a big Simpsons fan, but.
55
00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:54.229
I've gone back and watched a few. It's like, okay.
56
00:03:55.210 --> 00:04:00.590
As well, comedy thrives at the boundary between sanity and insanity.
57
00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:04.400
Some think that this may be the deeper connection, a
58
00:04:04.469 --> 00:04:11.669
society assumptions about what is normal that are developed. But
59
00:04:11.770 --> 00:04:15.729
normal has become profoundly abnormal. Think about what's going on today,
60
00:04:16.050 --> 00:04:20.910
trying to normalize the absolute absurdity that we're living in.
61
00:04:21.709 --> 00:04:26.639
The comedian stands at the boundary and says, does anyone
62
00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:32.600
notice how crazy this is? And that question can be revolutionary, which,
63
00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:35.779
of course, puts us back to the analog of the
64
00:04:35.879 --> 00:04:38.959
jester in ancient times. And we've talked about this before,
65
00:04:39.259 --> 00:04:41.959
the person who could tell the king's truth because he
66
00:04:42.060 --> 00:04:47.889
was ostensibly only joking. As well, and this was a
67
00:04:47.930 --> 00:04:51.990
comparison I really loved looking into, the comedian and the
68
00:04:52.089 --> 00:04:56.879
mystic have something in common. The mystic tries to get
69
00:04:56.959 --> 00:05:00.220
beneath the stories we tell ourselves. The comedian does something
70
00:05:00.579 --> 00:05:05.769
surprisingly similar. The mystic says, wake up. The comedian says,
71
00:05:06.129 --> 00:05:12.209
look at yourselves. The mystic dissolves illusion through contemplation. The
72
00:05:12.250 --> 00:05:17.240
comedian punctures illusion through absurdity. And I think both can
73
00:05:17.300 --> 00:05:21.500
reveal this gap between what reality is and what we
74
00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:26.980
think reality is. And both of these can be dangerous
75
00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:31.879
to established power. And I know Colbert, CBS says it
76
00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:34.579
was financial, but I don't believe a word of that.
77
00:05:35.660 --> 00:05:40.100
His power was getting too great. And there's an important catch,
78
00:05:40.579 --> 00:05:45.279
and I do want to say this. Comedians aren't automatically prophets.
79
00:05:46.019 --> 00:05:52.540
Some are tribal entertainers, cynics, propagandists, professional outrage machines. A
80
00:05:52.600 --> 00:05:58.029
comedian can be extremely funny while completely misunderstanding reality.
81
00:05:58.910 --> 00:05:59.910
So a distinction.
82
00:06:00.610 --> 00:06:06.170
The prophetic comedian has something more. It's almost like they
83
00:06:06.230 --> 00:06:11.060
all have curiosity, observation, and courage, but the prophetic comedian
84
00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:17.699
adds compassion. Without compassion, comedy becomes contempt. Without truth, it
85
00:06:17.740 --> 00:06:23.920
becomes entertainment. Without humility, it becomes ideology. And when all
86
00:06:23.959 --> 00:06:28.860
these qualities come together, something remarkable happens. And it looks
87
00:06:28.920 --> 00:06:33.009
to me like the comedian becomes the culture's unconscious speaking
88
00:06:33.170 --> 00:06:37.970
out loud. And perhaps that's why in an age, our age,
89
00:06:38.009 --> 00:06:43.740
this just, we're inundated, data, pundits, experts, and politicians. We
90
00:06:43.779 --> 00:06:47.540
sometimes recognize the truth most clearly when someone gets on
91
00:06:47.620 --> 00:06:52.810
stage and makes us laugh. And I'm convinced that a
92
00:06:52.879 --> 00:06:57.480
laugh creates an opening. Oh, my God, that's exactly what
93
00:06:57.519 --> 00:07:03.620
we're doing. All these little awakenings gives us new ways
94
00:07:03.699 --> 00:07:05.339
to think about our situation.
95
00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:07.500
And I think they are awakenings.
96
00:07:08.459 --> 00:07:11.629
I mean, I listened to Chappelle a few months ago,
97
00:07:12.649 --> 00:07:16.069
and I was blown away how he cracked open the
98
00:07:16.189 --> 00:07:19.269
egg of our culture and just spilled it out. And
99
00:07:19.310 --> 00:07:24.000
it wasn't pleasant, I didn't think. but the best prophetic comedians,
100
00:07:24.810 --> 00:07:28.990
they're seeing emerging patterns before the culture has a language
101
00:07:29.069 --> 00:07:29.490
for them.
102
00:07:30.329 --> 00:07:32.670
And I'd love to, you know, go through all of them.
103
00:07:33.449 --> 00:07:36.410
I can't tell you how, how many comedians I got
104
00:07:36.449 --> 00:07:39.689
to look into this. There's just go online and look
105
00:07:39.730 --> 00:07:43.319
for the top hundred comedians and the list.
106
00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:45.120
Goes on and they're amazing.
107
00:07:45.399 --> 00:07:49.500
I mean, for me, it's George Carlin, um, maybe the
108
00:07:49.579 --> 00:07:54.180
prophet of bullshit. Lenny Bruce, the prophet of liberated speech.
109
00:07:55.639 --> 00:08:03.790
Richard Pryor, the prophet of uncomfortable truth. And there's, again,
110
00:08:03.850 --> 00:08:08.449
I have to mention the Simpsons, the prophet of accidental
111
00:08:08.529 --> 00:08:13.829
collective awareness. They seem to predict a number of events
112
00:08:13.889 --> 00:08:20.699
from political absurdities to technological developments. And These writers, they
113
00:08:20.750 --> 00:08:26.850
were just understanding where existing cultural trends were likely to go.
114
00:08:27.850 --> 00:08:30.910
And they have, and regrettably so in so many ways.
115
00:08:31.250 --> 00:08:34.409
And I'd be, you know, there's John Stewart, the prophet
116
00:08:34.590 --> 00:08:41.110
of mediated reality, exposing the theater of political communication.
117
00:08:41.789 --> 00:08:45.580
And again, Stephen Colbert, come on, man, go Stephen.
118
00:08:45.879 --> 00:08:50.480
His whole stick on Comedy Central before he got his
119
00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:54.320
late night was one of the most brilliant presentations of
120
00:08:54.610 --> 00:08:55.610
who we are.
121
00:08:56.549 --> 00:08:57.389
And I have to say, I.
122
00:08:58.909 --> 00:09:02.269
Don't watch South Park much, but I do watch the
123
00:09:02.330 --> 00:09:06.840
new ones, especially when the devil was ready to have
124
00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:07.580
Trump's baby.
125
00:09:08.399 --> 00:09:09.360
That was pretty good.
126
00:09:10.740 --> 00:09:17.429
So I think these prophetic pieces show themselves over and over.
127
00:09:17.830 --> 00:09:20.350
And there's a deeper pattern here.
128
00:09:20.850 --> 00:09:24.350
We put Carlin and Bruce and Pryor and Stewart and
129
00:09:24.409 --> 00:09:27.370
Colbert and the Simpsons and all of them together. They're
130
00:09:27.470 --> 00:09:31.409
all doing versions of the same thing. They stand outside
131
00:09:31.500 --> 00:09:37.070
the dominant story long enough to see its contradictions. The
132
00:09:37.110 --> 00:09:40.759
mystic says, the story you think is reality isn't reality.
133
00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:44.480
The prophet says, if you continue believing this story, here's
134
00:09:44.539 --> 00:09:47.960
where it leads. The comedian says, listen to the story
135
00:09:47.980 --> 00:09:48.940
you're telling yourselves.
136
00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:53.269
Isn't it ridiculous? And then everybody laughs.
137
00:09:54.529 --> 00:09:59.690
And sometimes laughter is followed by a very uncomfortable smile.
138
00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:03.240
Silence. Think about our time.
139
00:10:04.340 --> 00:10:08.320
I would say there's more comedians today than ever before. And,
140
00:10:09.580 --> 00:10:12.210
you know, I have to say the Pope has a
141
00:10:12.250 --> 00:10:17.659
prophetic presence and he's the first spiritual person in a
142
00:10:17.700 --> 00:10:21.330
long time other than the Dalai Lama but comedians man
143
00:10:21.350 --> 00:10:25.490
they are cranking it out they are creating these small
144
00:10:25.610 --> 00:10:30.909
little awakenings that allow the truth to sneak past our
145
00:10:30.970 --> 00:10:36.149
defenses and somehow set up home in our souls so
146
00:10:36.769 --> 00:10:40.970
given all that I'm here with Bob Hayes from Florida
147
00:10:41.610 --> 00:10:43.330
and Mary Ann Ruddice from Ohio.
148
00:10:44.289 --> 00:10:46.740
Bob, what say you on this comedic front?
149
00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:54.259
Well, I think that that's a great analogy there, comparing
150
00:10:55.320 --> 00:11:00.440
the comedians to prophets. And I think that we tend
151
00:11:00.460 --> 00:11:03.139
to forget that comedians have been around almost as long
152
00:11:05.620 --> 00:11:09.700
They go back archaeologically and they find graffiti on old temples.
153
00:11:10.279 --> 00:11:11.120
They find.
154
00:11:12.620 --> 00:11:16.860
Dirty jokes written on the walls of the various places
155
00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:21.860
in Pompeii. You've already mentioned the jester in the court
156
00:11:21.879 --> 00:11:24.750
of the king who was the only one allowed to
157
00:11:26.070 --> 00:11:29.110
speak up against the king or point out the king's foibles.
158
00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:36.200
Comedians have always been connected to the media of the time.
159
00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:40.679
One of the.
160
00:11:40.139 --> 00:11:47.250
First politicians slash comedians slash prophets was Ben Franklin with
161
00:11:47.299 --> 00:11:52.450
his Poor Richard's Almanac. And he was jumping on the
162
00:11:52.509 --> 00:11:57.669
whole technological revolution of printing. He had his own printing press,
163
00:11:57.750 --> 00:12:01.110
and he could put out whatever he wanted to say,
164
00:12:01.129 --> 00:12:08.129
and he would interlace his political commentary with witticisms. And
165
00:12:09.500 --> 00:12:15.580
you see Lenny Bruce and Carlin, you mentioned, they're coming
166
00:12:15.700 --> 00:12:20.059
in on the first wave of the new.
167
00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:22.639
Video media.
168
00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:27.720
And now we've got these hundreds of comedians that you
169
00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:29.279
were looking at this week.
170
00:12:29.620 --> 00:12:32.379
That are riding the wave of the Internet.
171
00:12:34.059 --> 00:12:35.539
It used to be that they had to go and
172
00:12:35.580 --> 00:12:37.240
find a club that would let them get on an
173
00:12:37.299 --> 00:12:39.879
open mic. Now they can get on their own mic
174
00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:43.220
and post something, and if it's funny and if people
175
00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:47.230
like it, then they have an opportunity to continue with it.
176
00:12:47.539 --> 00:12:48.590
It's a whole new world.
177
00:12:49.389 --> 00:12:52.850
Go on tour, man. Yeah, and they.
178
00:12:52.769 --> 00:12:53.690
Don't even need to do that.
179
00:12:53.809 --> 00:12:54.289
They can just.
180
00:12:55.269 --> 00:12:56.509
create their own GoFundMe.
181
00:12:59.250 --> 00:13:02.059
I mean it's a different world but I find it
182
00:13:02.100 --> 00:13:06.159
interesting because there's so many comedians but most.
183
00:13:05.940 --> 00:13:08.460
Of them have their own little niche.
184
00:13:08.539 --> 00:13:13.200
They're not painting with a wide brush, they find a
185
00:13:13.419 --> 00:13:18.629
certain area of absurdity, if you will, and they focus
186
00:13:18.710 --> 00:13:21.190
in on that, whether it be politics or whether it
187
00:13:21.269 --> 00:13:24.529
be modern culture or whatever.
188
00:13:25.129 --> 00:13:26.509
And each one of them.
189
00:13:26.409 --> 00:13:29.789
Seems to have their own style, their own way of
190
00:13:29.850 --> 00:13:34.039
getting at it. which makes it fresh each time. You
191
00:13:34.070 --> 00:13:36.690
don't get bored going from one comedian to another because
192
00:13:36.710 --> 00:13:38.750
you're getting a different take, maybe.
193
00:13:38.529 --> 00:13:41.570
On the same kind of absurdity, but in a different.
194
00:13:41.350 --> 00:13:44.110
Flavor, if you will. And you know, you work your
195
00:13:44.149 --> 00:13:46.230
way up the circuit. You know what I mean? From
196
00:13:46.309 --> 00:13:49.419
stand-up to Nate Bergazzi, who we saw....
197
00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:55.159
Like at a basketball court, there were 7,000 people there.
198
00:13:55.620 --> 00:13:56.820
Yeah, absolutely.
199
00:13:57.340 --> 00:14:04.480
And it's so important because there's so many studies psychologically, sociologically,
200
00:14:04.539 --> 00:14:07.620
and so forth of the importance of humor, how it's
201
00:14:07.659 --> 00:14:13.470
an attention reducer, how it is used in cases where
202
00:14:13.509 --> 00:14:17.750
there's a tragedy and humor begins to lift one out
203
00:14:17.789 --> 00:14:22.779
of that tragic situation a little bit. And they almost
204
00:14:22.820 --> 00:14:27.659
become not just our political commentators or our social commentators,
205
00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:29.759
but they're kind of like our therapists.
206
00:14:29.980 --> 00:14:33.320
Yeah. Marianne, what do you have to say as an
207
00:14:33.460 --> 00:14:35.480
opening comment to this conversation?
208
00:14:36.779 --> 00:14:37.340
Well, I think.
209
00:14:39.059 --> 00:14:42.299
I think everything that you kind of laid out there
210
00:14:42.519 --> 00:14:47.580
and everything you've said, Bob, is just like, it's right on.
211
00:14:47.659 --> 00:14:49.440
And I would say, you know, with all of.
212
00:14:49.460 --> 00:14:53.860
These different voices, some of them, many of them are
213
00:14:53.980 --> 00:14:56.960
saying the same thing, but they're just saying it in
214
00:14:57.019 --> 00:15:01.059
a different way and it goes to a different audience.
215
00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:07.090
And so someone who can listen to Richard Pryor may
216
00:15:07.169 --> 00:15:13.909
not be able to appreciate George Carlin, or someone who
217
00:15:13.990 --> 00:15:19.440
appreciates Dave Chappelle may not really hone into.
218
00:15:19.029 --> 00:15:19.980
Some of the other ones.
219
00:15:20.379 --> 00:15:24.940
But underlying all of it, they're all creating social commentary.
220
00:15:25.259 --> 00:15:29.779
They're all looking at the absurdity of life, but they're
221
00:15:29.820 --> 00:15:36.830
also pointing out the truths. that underlie the hypocrisy that
222
00:15:36.909 --> 00:15:42.950
we all live with every day. You know, a comedian
223
00:15:43.450 --> 00:15:47.720
can only keep going if they get laughs, right?
224
00:15:48.179 --> 00:15:50.779
They have to also entertain.
225
00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:57.600
But between that entertainment, you're right, it is a doorway into.
226
00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:04.120
to finding, to exposing people to.
227
00:16:04.019 --> 00:16:07.149
Things they may never have thought of before and looking
228
00:16:07.210 --> 00:16:11.769
at things in ways that may assault their senses. You know,
229
00:16:11.970 --> 00:16:15.789
not everybody laughs at these comedians. Some people want to
230
00:16:15.850 --> 00:16:22.240
silence them. And so it's, but they are, I think
231
00:16:22.259 --> 00:16:23.320
they're a vital.
232
00:16:23.100 --> 00:16:27.500
Part, especially now. And this week I started.
233
00:16:27.220 --> 00:16:31.070
To look up different comedians and I stumbled across a
234
00:16:31.110 --> 00:16:33.470
guy named Bill Hicks who I'd never heard of before.
235
00:16:34.230 --> 00:16:42.049
And he was someone who was out there just, and
236
00:16:42.090 --> 00:16:46.429
he died very young, which I found really amazing that
237
00:16:46.490 --> 00:16:49.470
he was so young and yet he was out there
238
00:16:49.549 --> 00:16:55.200
talking about things that we are seeing permeating and playing
239
00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:55.879
out today.
240
00:16:55.940 --> 00:16:58.279
So talk about a prophetic voice.
241
00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:03.299
Um, here's somebody who's predicting things, but what I liked
242
00:17:03.379 --> 00:17:07.589
about him was he was also very hopeful, um, in
243
00:17:07.619 --> 00:17:11.329
the end. And I think most of them, um, you know,
244
00:17:11.369 --> 00:17:14.609
George Carlin, I love George Carlin, but he was pretty
245
00:17:14.670 --> 00:17:20.400
cynical and, um, There are, you know, Jon Stewart kind
246
00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:21.980
of lightens things up a bit.
247
00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:25.440
So, yeah. Well, and I think one of the things that,
248
00:17:26.180 --> 00:17:28.849
you know, I think about a physicist who discovers a
249
00:17:28.890 --> 00:17:32.569
new particle and then they have to name it. And
250
00:17:32.589 --> 00:17:38.549
I think society is producing new particles, new situations, new
251
00:17:38.609 --> 00:17:40.130
relational situations.
252
00:17:40.730 --> 00:17:42.349
And I love that analogy.
253
00:17:42.509 --> 00:17:46.039
And comedians are able to not just see them, but
254
00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:49.789
to name them. And I think of Colbert, what was
255
00:17:49.869 --> 00:17:53.130
it he said? That the great political concept of the
256
00:17:53.190 --> 00:17:57.069
early 20th century was given to us by Colbert, truthiness.
257
00:17:58.269 --> 00:18:01.490
Something doesn't have to be factually true. It simply has
258
00:18:01.569 --> 00:18:07.819
to feel true. And pointing out that is a great
259
00:18:08.259 --> 00:18:12.259
lens that you can start seeing. Well, that's truthiness. You know,
260
00:18:12.380 --> 00:18:15.859
it gives us a way of describing something that's happening
261
00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:18.289
before our eyes, but we don't know how to describe it.
262
00:18:19.069 --> 00:18:23.349
And I think that those pattern recognitions, I think human
263
00:18:23.410 --> 00:18:26.730
beings are inherently, and Bob, you're part of this Jungian
264
00:18:26.769 --> 00:18:30.589
thing that we've been in for decades now in our conversation.
265
00:18:31.970 --> 00:18:36.990
The pattern recognition is part of the human being. It's
266
00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:40.480
part of one of the main things we do perceptually.
267
00:18:40.940 --> 00:18:43.819
And these people, at least to me in my mind,
268
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:50.660
they have higher acuity. Their resolution is a lot more fine-lined.
269
00:18:51.250 --> 00:18:56.769
They're beyond HDTV and K4 or whatever the fuck it is.
270
00:18:56.930 --> 00:19:00.789
It's not a coincidence that most cultures have had an
271
00:19:00.950 --> 00:19:03.539
archetype of the trickster slash jokester.
272
00:19:04.109 --> 00:19:06.710
As part of their pantheon.
273
00:19:06.170 --> 00:19:10.750
Of gods or of labeling forces of the universe. And
274
00:19:11.529 --> 00:19:16.769
maybe in some cases, one of the more important archetypes
275
00:19:17.609 --> 00:19:24.670
in Greek culture, Hermes was the god of the doorway
276
00:19:25.170 --> 00:19:28.240
that allowed you to move to new ways of thinking.
277
00:19:29.180 --> 00:19:34.259
And so this is nothing new. And it's just a
278
00:19:34.339 --> 00:19:37.359
new way of receiving it. And one other thing I
279
00:19:37.380 --> 00:19:39.809
was going to say, you mentioned, both of you had mentioned,
280
00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:42.990
they make us laugh. Well, I think that it's even
281
00:19:43.029 --> 00:19:48.849
beyond that. They allow us to laugh. Sometimes we don't
282
00:19:48.990 --> 00:19:51.430
even have control. We may not even know why we're
283
00:19:51.450 --> 00:19:55.390
laughing because it's like an autonomic function.
284
00:19:56.170 --> 00:19:58.559
And they give us.
285
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:03.640
A cue that allows us to laugh at a situation
286
00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:06.460
and then see that situation in a different way.
287
00:20:07.150 --> 00:20:07.490
Yeah.
288
00:20:07.569 --> 00:20:10.589
Well, and I think things are funny because they're true.
289
00:20:11.250 --> 00:20:14.569
And as the old time prophets, I mean, if we're
290
00:20:14.630 --> 00:20:17.750
going to stick with this analogy of comedians as prophets,
291
00:20:18.029 --> 00:20:21.450
the old time prophets pointed out truths. And that's what
292
00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:24.579
these comedians doing. And that's what makes us laugh because
293
00:20:24.619 --> 00:20:28.619
we know it's true. And yet we allow ourselves to
294
00:20:28.779 --> 00:20:29.480
be deluded.
295
00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:31.200
It's funny, though.
296
00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:33.640
Correct me if I'm wrong, Red Hawk. I don't think
297
00:20:33.700 --> 00:20:38.039
that there's a humorous prophet in the Bible. At least
298
00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:41.240
not that I can recall. They were always very serious,
299
00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:44.000
you know. God is going to smite us if we
300
00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:48.950
don't do this and that. I wonder if some of
301
00:20:49.009 --> 00:20:51.329
the teachings might have gone over a little better if
302
00:20:51.369 --> 00:20:53.309
there had been a humorous prophet.
303
00:20:53.450 --> 00:20:57.269
And, you know, they might have. Just who wrote it
304
00:20:57.349 --> 00:21:00.549
down was probably not the prophet. It was somebody who
305
00:21:00.589 --> 00:21:04.950
was dogmatic and trying to encapsulate them. I mean, Jesus,
306
00:21:05.029 --> 00:21:07.740
one of my favorite pictures of Jesus was in a
307
00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:11.720
Harvey Cox article in Playboy. And it's got Jesus in
308
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:12.519
a belly laugh.
309
00:21:13.539 --> 00:21:16.240
And, you know.
310
00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:19.579
I think he had a really good sense of humor.
311
00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:22.819
I think he was goofing on Caesar a lot. I
312
00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:28.259
think he was goofing on the foibles of status, you know,
313
00:21:28.619 --> 00:21:31.970
and things like that. And the Gospels catch a little
314
00:21:32.009 --> 00:21:32.450
bit of it.
315
00:21:35.009 --> 00:21:37.789
But it doesn't catch, I don't think, the spirit of
316
00:21:37.849 --> 00:21:39.130
it all the time.
317
00:21:39.470 --> 00:21:44.329
And I think that in this time, we can't look
318
00:21:44.369 --> 00:21:45.829
to the church for prophetic knowledge.
319
00:21:46.339 --> 00:21:47.880
Thinking although i think.
320
00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:54.880
Pope leo go man go um but the comedians are
321
00:21:54.940 --> 00:21:58.940
saying it i mean even the ones who aren't what
322
00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:03.109
i would call uh challenging culture at a big level
323
00:22:03.740 --> 00:22:07.789
they're challenging it at a small level uh there's this
324
00:22:07.930 --> 00:22:11.589
asian guy i can't remember his name but he's hilarious
325
00:22:11.670 --> 00:22:17.789
man And he's from Alabama, from a little town, and
326
00:22:17.869 --> 00:22:19.390
he's the only Asian there.
327
00:22:19.410 --> 00:22:24.829
Except for his wedding. Except for his wedding, yeah. And,
328
00:22:24.890 --> 00:22:25.289
you know, it.
329
00:22:26.950 --> 00:22:32.369
Just shows you the contrasts. of cultures you know like
330
00:22:32.569 --> 00:22:36.130
like oil and water or alcohol and water which ones
331
00:22:36.190 --> 00:22:38.430
are going to blend together and which aren't and those
332
00:22:38.470 --> 00:22:44.250
that don't blend together humor can somehow put enough heat
333
00:22:44.329 --> 00:22:47.390
on it that makes them melt together i don't know
334
00:22:47.710 --> 00:22:52.430
but i do know it leads us somewhere beyond ourselves
335
00:22:53.049 --> 00:22:56.029
and a way of looking at the world that is
336
00:22:56.670 --> 00:23:02.609
more complete even though What completes it is knowing how
337
00:23:02.670 --> 00:23:03.789
hypocritical we are.
338
00:23:04.869 --> 00:23:09.109
Well, you know, and something else that, you know, when
339
00:23:09.130 --> 00:23:12.970
you get down to that they are speaking.
340
00:23:12.730 --> 00:23:16.660
Truth, we're living in a time where we can't really
341
00:23:16.740 --> 00:23:19.759
discern what is true for the most part.
342
00:23:20.220 --> 00:23:24.579
And most of the media, the stories that they're covering
343
00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:29.309
are You don't know. Everything is slanted in a certain way.
344
00:23:29.670 --> 00:23:33.089
And I think the comedian is coming in and removing
345
00:23:33.170 --> 00:23:38.190
the slant and, like you said before, honing into what
346
00:23:38.289 --> 00:23:38.950
is that truth.
347
00:23:38.990 --> 00:23:40.190
I think of John Oliver.
348
00:23:40.630 --> 00:23:45.420
And he's brilliant in he does longer pieces. And he
349
00:23:45.500 --> 00:23:49.960
really digs into issues and what's happening. But he does
350
00:23:50.019 --> 00:23:54.220
it in such a way that is engaging and comedic.
351
00:23:54.720 --> 00:24:00.400
But it's very serious. He talks about some very serious
352
00:24:00.500 --> 00:24:04.319
flaws in our systems. And so I think being.
353
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:06.490
Open to, you know, there was a time when I
354
00:24:06.569 --> 00:24:09.569
remember when Jon Stewart first started on The Daily Show.
355
00:24:10.210 --> 00:24:14.589
And there was a part of me that resisted that
356
00:24:15.009 --> 00:24:20.640
because it felt like we're going to start trivializing these things.
357
00:24:22.099 --> 00:24:26.339
important topics and yet those are the places where you're
358
00:24:26.359 --> 00:24:26.920
going to get.
359
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:30.180
The truth now yeah and it's just.
360
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:33.670
Yeah well you know one article i read on john
361
00:24:33.730 --> 00:24:35.789
stewart said here's the way it works and he called
362
00:24:35.970 --> 00:24:39.049
they call them the prophet of mediated reality he says
363
00:24:39.069 --> 00:24:44.059
he they he exposed the theater of political communication a
364
00:24:44.099 --> 00:24:49.059
politician says one thing The cable news personality interprets it.
365
00:24:49.500 --> 00:24:54.900
Another politician responds. The network packages the conflict. Everyone talks
366
00:24:54.980 --> 00:24:59.799
about the spectacle. Meanwhile, reality sits somewhere outside the television screen.
367
00:25:00.140 --> 00:25:05.240
Politics isn't necessarily the pursuit of truth. It has become
368
00:25:05.319 --> 00:25:09.950
the management of narratives. And that's, you know, if you
369
00:25:10.069 --> 00:25:12.930
start looking at what the different comedians were doing and
370
00:25:13.009 --> 00:25:16.390
what's the pearl of their intent, that was part of
371
00:25:16.769 --> 00:25:20.059
Jon Stewart's whole The Daily Show. And I think it's
372
00:25:20.099 --> 00:25:23.160
still doing that, although it's, you know, now has, I think,
373
00:25:23.220 --> 00:25:25.279
five different comedians or something doing it.
374
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:30.460
Well, and Trevor Noah was another one that he brought
375
00:25:30.500 --> 00:25:33.720
to the forefront, who was absolutely brilliant.
376
00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:36.549
Boy, Tolkien.
377
00:25:37.769 --> 00:25:41.349
Well, they've got a few really brilliant ones. Daisy Leinick
378
00:25:41.670 --> 00:25:48.660
is absolutely terrific. And the names all escape me now,
379
00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:53.019
but the guy that goes out to the Trump rallies
380
00:25:53.220 --> 00:25:58.059
and interviews the Trump supporters. And he does it very calmly,
381
00:25:58.500 --> 00:26:02.200
but you see the absurdity so clearly.
382
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:07.579
And the thing about it is, People don't know it's
383
00:26:07.619 --> 00:26:11.359
a comedy thing. They don't see that they're the brunt
384
00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:14.049
of the joke, and the joke is.
385
00:26:15.710 --> 00:26:16.609
One of two things.
386
00:26:17.430 --> 00:26:22.309
After high school, they were afraid to leave home, and two,
387
00:26:22.390 --> 00:26:25.829
they weren't smart enough to go to any college anyway. And,
388
00:26:25.849 --> 00:26:29.210
you know, no offense, but we need to start using
389
00:26:29.259 --> 00:26:30.240
the word stupid.
390
00:26:30.259 --> 00:26:30.720
Stupid.
391
00:26:32.410 --> 00:26:34.369
And I think that comedian, I don't know who he
392
00:26:34.430 --> 00:26:36.730
is who's doing those interviews, but I've seen a bunch
393
00:26:36.769 --> 00:26:42.650
of those. And it's just showing not just the absurdity,
394
00:26:43.109 --> 00:26:44.490
but the stupidity.
395
00:26:45.750 --> 00:26:49.680
Well, yeah, and they're oblivious to what's happening. And when
396
00:26:49.700 --> 00:26:50.039
they get.
397
00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:55.299
When they confront that cognizant dissonance, it's like they don't
398
00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:56.380
know what to do with it.
399
00:26:56.700 --> 00:27:00.750
But, you know, over 50% of America is under a
400
00:27:00.809 --> 00:27:06.490
sixth grade reading level. You know, it's just amazing.
401
00:27:06.490 --> 00:27:06.670
60%?
402
00:27:06.670 --> 00:27:09.799
Something like that. I read it today that it was,
403
00:27:10.539 --> 00:27:10.799
you know.
404
00:27:11.390 --> 00:27:14.009
Uh, and then it took it state by state and
405
00:27:14.049 --> 00:27:17.049
talked about illiteracy, like in Georgia, like one out of
406
00:27:17.130 --> 00:27:21.160
five is illiterate in Georgia, something like that. Uh, we,
407
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:25.200
our education system has failed us in, in ways that
408
00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:27.980
are amazing. And I don't think it failed me. I
409
00:27:28.019 --> 00:27:31.250
got in under the wire, really good school. I think,
410
00:27:31.849 --> 00:27:34.069
you know, I learned more than I thought I did.
411
00:27:34.109 --> 00:27:35.289
And I was a troublemaker.
412
00:27:35.309 --> 00:27:39.420
Uh, But you were going through school a long time.
413
00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:40.480
Ago, too. That's what I'm saying.
414
00:27:40.599 --> 00:27:44.799
When I went through, the education system was post-war, and
415
00:27:44.839 --> 00:27:46.609
we're going to do this, and we're going to take
416
00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:47.690
care of our kids.
417
00:27:48.869 --> 00:27:51.509
You learned civics and all that kind of geography.
418
00:27:57.880 --> 00:28:00.880
You could go to music school and, you know, I
419
00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:05.079
learned to play ukulele. I learned about history of classical music.
420
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:07.829
We had a concert time. You know, there were these
421
00:28:08.049 --> 00:28:12.670
we had a theory hour. It was awesome. And I
422
00:28:12.710 --> 00:28:16.130
just I took it for granted. And I think that
423
00:28:16.250 --> 00:28:19.740
part of what's going on today is. is there are
424
00:28:19.940 --> 00:28:23.160
cracks in the system. If you listen to our previous
425
00:28:23.220 --> 00:28:26.890
podcast on End of the World, one of the positions
426
00:28:26.950 --> 00:28:30.329
that we can go in this fork in the road
427
00:28:30.609 --> 00:28:36.170
is fragmentation. And I think that comedians are brilliant in
428
00:28:37.289 --> 00:28:41.730
giving us a language and also giving us a heart
429
00:28:42.289 --> 00:28:47.230
so that we can somehow compassionately believe embrace our own
430
00:28:47.299 --> 00:28:52.380
fragmentation in a way that isn't futile, but is one
431
00:28:52.420 --> 00:28:54.839
that becomes more hopeful, if that makes.
432
00:28:54.720 --> 00:28:55.619
Any fucking sense.
433
00:28:56.319 --> 00:28:59.940
Well, yeah. And it's also, it releases our pressure valves
434
00:29:00.420 --> 00:29:00.880
as well.
435
00:29:01.180 --> 00:29:01.839
Yeah.
436
00:29:02.500 --> 00:29:06.460
You know, giving us an outlet to be able to go, oh,
437
00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:08.319
I'm not crazy.
438
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:09.000
And laugh about it.
439
00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:14.539
Or I am crazy, but I'm not alone. So, Marianne,
440
00:29:14.619 --> 00:29:15.480
final comments?
441
00:29:17.509 --> 00:29:26.589
You know, I.
442
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:30.779
Think when we look at the world, the comedians among
443
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:37.890
us are pointing out things that are the truth. And
444
00:29:38.630 --> 00:29:41.630
if we can just start to shift the way we
445
00:29:41.750 --> 00:29:44.509
see things, um, slightly, um.
446
00:29:45.269 --> 00:29:46.450
And I think they're doing that.
447
00:29:46.470 --> 00:29:49.150
I mean, you were talking about Jordan Klepper talking to
448
00:29:49.529 --> 00:29:56.349
people who had never considered, um, the, the, the, um,
449
00:29:57.390 --> 00:30:01.430
the dissonance that they were entertaining. And some of them
450
00:30:01.470 --> 00:30:04.710
you could see would go, oh, and I wonder what
451
00:30:04.779 --> 00:30:08.779
happens after they leave that interview. And if it does
452
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:12.039
have an impact, if it does make something. So I
453
00:30:12.099 --> 00:30:13.880
think we just need to.
454
00:30:15.099 --> 00:30:16.720
Keep on keeping on and laugh.
455
00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:17.859
Yeah, amen.
456
00:30:18.259 --> 00:30:19.980
Laughter the best medicine, right?
457
00:30:20.140 --> 00:30:23.000
I love it. Bob, final comments?
458
00:30:23.740 --> 00:30:27.680
Well, I think we can enjoy comedians But I think
459
00:30:28.099 --> 00:30:35.160
I'll use one of Marianne's favorite terms, discernment. I think
460
00:30:35.220 --> 00:30:41.930
we can use the whole situation of the comedian as
461
00:30:41.970 --> 00:30:45.329
a way to discern what's going on outside of the comedy.
462
00:30:45.710 --> 00:30:49.220
Let's take a look at who are trying to stop
463
00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:54.480
the comedians, who are trying to silence the comedians. And
464
00:30:55.250 --> 00:30:57.809
take a look, use our discernment to say, well, why
465
00:30:57.890 --> 00:31:02.480
is this happening? What is it about these people that
466
00:31:02.660 --> 00:31:06.200
they want to hide? And that takes us to a
467
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:09.640
whole new level of awareness and discernment.
468
00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:12.480
And a new kind of comedian that can point that out.
469
00:31:15.339 --> 00:31:16.779
You got a job, Bob.
470
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:22.210
When I was in college, we were shown a movie
471
00:31:22.289 --> 00:31:28.029
on meditation, and the whole thing was about Alan Watts.
472
00:31:28.250 --> 00:31:31.359
It was narrated by him. And at the very end,
473
00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:35.599
he says, you know what? If we have all of
474
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:40.210
this and we don't do what's most human— What's the point?
475
00:31:40.289 --> 00:31:43.869
And then he walks into the pond with all these
476
00:31:43.950 --> 00:31:47.769
lotuses floating in it. And he says, we have to laugh.
477
00:31:48.289 --> 00:31:50.190
And then he bursts out laughing. And that's how the
478
00:31:50.230 --> 00:31:54.319
film ends. And he calls it a form of meditation.
479
00:31:54.920 --> 00:31:59.859
And I would concur with that. You know, as I
480
00:31:59.880 --> 00:32:03.180
was doing the study this week, something that kept coming
481
00:32:03.220 --> 00:32:08.630
to mind was how fortunate I am. And that's because
482
00:32:08.690 --> 00:32:13.730
I have friends, not just my cohorts here. But, you know,
483
00:32:14.250 --> 00:32:16.750
we had a small little dinner party the other night,
484
00:32:16.930 --> 00:32:18.430
just a few different friends.
485
00:32:18.589 --> 00:32:20.670
Edie's learning guitar and.
486
00:32:20.609 --> 00:32:23.559
She wanted to show what she's learned so far.
487
00:32:23.579 --> 00:32:28.019
It was just a small little intimate thing. And we
488
00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:31.500
have a party. every year it's called we call.
489
00:32:31.420 --> 00:32:33.809
It the pond party we don't have a very big
490
00:32:33.829 --> 00:32:37.369
pond it's probably eight by five something like that but
491
00:32:37.430 --> 00:32:40.089
it's alive it's a living thing and we have a
492
00:32:40.170 --> 00:32:44.299
party we've had everywhere from 150 to 75 somewhere in
493
00:32:44.339 --> 00:32:48.839
there people and i look upon all those friends and
494
00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:55.259
i realize they're justice people You know, they work in nonprofits.
495
00:32:55.299 --> 00:33:00.259
They work as lawyers. They work as judges. Some are doctors, ministers.
496
00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:04.430
And I just want to talk next week about friends
497
00:33:05.269 --> 00:33:07.450
and how fortunate anybody is.
498
00:33:07.809 --> 00:33:08.609
That has a friend.
499
00:33:08.630 --> 00:33:14.769
Because right now, friendship is at a high, high cost,
500
00:33:15.250 --> 00:33:17.619
and fewer people have friends.
501
00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:20.500
Until next week, be well.
1
00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:10.279
Welcome, welcome to the deep end. We're number 435.
2
00:00:10.279 --> 00:00:13.320
It's hard to believe we've been on.
3
00:00:13.820 --> 00:00:14.869
The air that long.
4
00:00:14.900 --> 00:00:19.350
We came here from radio and I have to say
5
00:00:19.370 --> 00:00:20.550
I've had the best time.
6
00:00:21.260 --> 00:00:23.800
I'm thinking about stuff. I love ideas.
7
00:00:23.839 --> 00:00:26.079
Here at The Deep End, we try to pull the
8
00:00:26.140 --> 00:00:28.140
thread of every idea we can.
9
00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:30.699
And this week, I had a great week.
10
00:00:31.300 --> 00:00:34.490
Has anyone else ever noticed, at least now, that some
11
00:00:34.570 --> 00:00:38.409
of the deepest and widest truths coming to.
12
00:00:38.509 --> 00:00:42.450
Us are now from comedians? So today, we make a
13
00:00:42.490 --> 00:00:45.969
deep dive into comedians. Comedian prophets.
14
00:00:45.990 --> 00:00:50.909
It seems comedy has a strange relationship with truth. They
15
00:00:50.929 --> 00:00:54.030
seem to be allowed to say things most of us
16
00:00:54.109 --> 00:00:57.950
are afraid to say. As well, they show us some
17
00:00:58.090 --> 00:01:01.579
different ways of looking at the world and our situation
18
00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:06.840
and our relationships to it. I think comedians stand out,
19
00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:10.859
stand there at the vortex of several forces that are
20
00:01:10.900 --> 00:01:11.739
working together.
21
00:01:13.049 --> 00:01:15.450
Comedian as prophet.
22
00:01:16.909 --> 00:01:19.569
When you start thinking that way when you start thinking
23
00:01:19.609 --> 00:01:24.390
that way and seeing it that way it's amazing what
24
00:01:24.469 --> 00:01:29.579
the world starts looking like you know to me there's
25
00:01:29.620 --> 00:01:33.799
this prophetic quality that comes from these forces uh and
26
00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:36.659
they i want to just look at them real briefly
27
00:01:39.549 --> 00:01:42.109
First of all, I think comedians stand a little bit
28
00:01:42.250 --> 00:01:46.379
outside the tribe. A comedian's job is to almost notice
29
00:01:46.420 --> 00:01:52.219
the contradictions everybody else has normalized. Bluntly put, a politician
30
00:01:52.260 --> 00:01:56.400
would say, this policy will bring us together. Well, everyone
31
00:01:56.459 --> 00:01:59.939
can see that that policy is dividing people. The comedian
32
00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:05.750
points out the contradiction and laughs. Distance gives comedy a
33
00:02:05.829 --> 00:02:13.050
kind of cultural peripheral vision. Another thing comedians understand is
34
00:02:13.129 --> 00:02:14.889
laughter lowers defenses.
35
00:02:15.770 --> 00:02:17.930
The laugh is important. The ego relaxes.
36
00:02:18.009 --> 00:02:21.210
It recognizes something's true before it doesn't have time to
37
00:02:21.250 --> 00:02:25.449
construct an argument against us. It's like the comedian can
38
00:02:25.569 --> 00:02:29.969
smuggle truth past the guards of the mind. As well,
39
00:02:30.069 --> 00:02:37.439
comedians are professional pattern recognizers. This to me is brilliant
40
00:02:37.860 --> 00:02:41.469
when I listen to comedians. They're constantly asking what's going
41
00:02:41.629 --> 00:02:49.530
on here. They watch language, behavior, technology, politics, relationships, advertising, status, hypocrisy.
42
00:02:50.949 --> 00:02:51.590
And fear.
43
00:02:51.889 --> 00:02:59.199
And they notice the small changes before those changes become obvious. Now,
44
00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:01.979
I'm going to suggest this is very similar to what
45
00:03:02.020 --> 00:03:05.039
a prophet does. A prophet sees a pattern in the
46
00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:10.240
present and extrapolates its meaning into the future. Another thing
47
00:03:10.819 --> 00:03:16.419
that comedians do, it's important for us to see that
48
00:03:16.520 --> 00:03:22.560
absurdity is often an early warning system. Many things look
49
00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:26.879
very ridiculous before they look dangerous. Can I mention our president?
50
00:03:28.099 --> 00:03:31.219
Years later, we realize that what they were laughing at
51
00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:36.099
on The Simpsons wasn't merely funny. It was a symptom.
52
00:03:38.090 --> 00:03:42.180
And they weren't necessarily predicting the future. They were seeing
53
00:03:42.219 --> 00:03:47.620
the present more clearly, a higher resolution. You know, and
54
00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:51.319
I wasn't a big Simpsons fan, but.
55
00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:54.229
I've gone back and watched a few. It's like, okay.
56
00:03:55.210 --> 00:04:00.590
As well, comedy thrives at the boundary between sanity and insanity.
57
00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:04.400
Some think that this may be the deeper connection, a
58
00:04:04.469 --> 00:04:11.669
society assumptions about what is normal that are developed. But
59
00:04:11.770 --> 00:04:15.729
normal has become profoundly abnormal. Think about what's going on today,
60
00:04:16.050 --> 00:04:20.910
trying to normalize the absolute absurdity that we're living in.
61
00:04:21.709 --> 00:04:26.639
The comedian stands at the boundary and says, does anyone
62
00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:32.600
notice how crazy this is? And that question can be revolutionary, which,
63
00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:35.779
of course, puts us back to the analog of the
64
00:04:35.879 --> 00:04:38.959
jester in ancient times. And we've talked about this before,
65
00:04:39.259 --> 00:04:41.959
the person who could tell the king's truth because he
66
00:04:42.060 --> 00:04:47.889
was ostensibly only joking. As well, and this was a
67
00:04:47.930 --> 00:04:51.990
comparison I really loved looking into, the comedian and the
68
00:04:52.089 --> 00:04:56.879
mystic have something in common. The mystic tries to get
69
00:04:56.959 --> 00:05:00.220
beneath the stories we tell ourselves. The comedian does something
70
00:05:00.579 --> 00:05:05.769
surprisingly similar. The mystic says, wake up. The comedian says,
71
00:05:06.129 --> 00:05:12.209
look at yourselves. The mystic dissolves illusion through contemplation. The
72
00:05:12.250 --> 00:05:17.240
comedian punctures illusion through absurdity. And I think both can
73
00:05:17.300 --> 00:05:21.500
reveal this gap between what reality is and what we
74
00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:26.980
think reality is. And both of these can be dangerous
75
00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:31.879
to established power. And I know Colbert, CBS says it
76
00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:34.579
was financial, but I don't believe a word of that.
77
00:05:35.660 --> 00:05:40.100
His power was getting too great. And there's an important catch,
78
00:05:40.579 --> 00:05:45.279
and I do want to say this. Comedians aren't automatically prophets.
79
00:05:46.019 --> 00:05:52.540
Some are tribal entertainers, cynics, propagandists, professional outrage machines. A
80
00:05:52.600 --> 00:05:58.029
comedian can be extremely funny while completely misunderstanding reality.
81
00:05:58.910 --> 00:05:59.910
So a distinction.
82
00:06:00.610 --> 00:06:06.170
The prophetic comedian has something more. It's almost like they
83
00:06:06.230 --> 00:06:11.060
all have curiosity, observation, and courage, but the prophetic comedian
84
00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:17.699
adds compassion. Without compassion, comedy becomes contempt. Without truth, it
85
00:06:17.740 --> 00:06:23.920
becomes entertainment. Without humility, it becomes ideology. And when all
86
00:06:23.959 --> 00:06:28.860
these qualities come together, something remarkable happens. And it looks
87
00:06:28.920 --> 00:06:33.009
to me like the comedian becomes the culture's unconscious speaking
88
00:06:33.170 --> 00:06:37.970
out loud. And perhaps that's why in an age, our age,
89
00:06:38.009 --> 00:06:43.740
this just, we're inundated, data, pundits, experts, and politicians. We
90
00:06:43.779 --> 00:06:47.540
sometimes recognize the truth most clearly when someone gets on
91
00:06:47.620 --> 00:06:52.810
stage and makes us laugh. And I'm convinced that a
92
00:06:52.879 --> 00:06:57.480
laugh creates an opening. Oh, my God, that's exactly what
93
00:06:57.519 --> 00:07:03.620
we're doing. All these little awakenings gives us new ways
94
00:07:03.699 --> 00:07:05.339
to think about our situation.
95
00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:07.500
And I think they are awakenings.
96
00:07:08.459 --> 00:07:11.629
I mean, I listened to Chappelle a few months ago,
97
00:07:12.649 --> 00:07:16.069
and I was blown away how he cracked open the
98
00:07:16.189 --> 00:07:19.269
egg of our culture and just spilled it out. And
99
00:07:19.310 --> 00:07:24.000
it wasn't pleasant, I didn't think. but the best prophetic comedians,
100
00:07:24.810 --> 00:07:28.990
they're seeing emerging patterns before the culture has a language
101
00:07:29.069 --> 00:07:29.490
for them.
102
00:07:30.329 --> 00:07:32.670
And I'd love to, you know, go through all of them.
103
00:07:33.449 --> 00:07:36.410
I can't tell you how, how many comedians I got
104
00:07:36.449 --> 00:07:39.689
to look into this. There's just go online and look
105
00:07:39.730 --> 00:07:43.319
for the top hundred comedians and the list.
106
00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:45.120
Goes on and they're amazing.
107
00:07:45.399 --> 00:07:49.500
I mean, for me, it's George Carlin, um, maybe the
108
00:07:49.579 --> 00:07:54.180
prophet of bullshit. Lenny Bruce, the prophet of liberated speech.
109
00:07:55.639 --> 00:08:03.790
Richard Pryor, the prophet of uncomfortable truth. And there's, again,
110
00:08:03.850 --> 00:08:08.449
I have to mention the Simpsons, the prophet of accidental
111
00:08:08.529 --> 00:08:13.829
collective awareness. They seem to predict a number of events
112
00:08:13.889 --> 00:08:20.699
from political absurdities to technological developments. And These writers, they
113
00:08:20.750 --> 00:08:26.850
were just understanding where existing cultural trends were likely to go.
114
00:08:27.850 --> 00:08:30.910
And they have, and regrettably so in so many ways.
115
00:08:31.250 --> 00:08:34.409
And I'd be, you know, there's John Stewart, the prophet
116
00:08:34.590 --> 00:08:41.110
of mediated reality, exposing the theater of political communication.
117
00:08:41.789 --> 00:08:45.580
And again, Stephen Colbert, come on, man, go Stephen.
118
00:08:45.879 --> 00:08:50.480
His whole stick on Comedy Central before he got his
119
00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:54.320
late night was one of the most brilliant presentations of
120
00:08:54.610 --> 00:08:55.610
who we are.
121
00:08:56.549 --> 00:08:57.389
And I have to say, I.
122
00:08:58.909 --> 00:09:02.269
Don't watch South Park much, but I do watch the
123
00:09:02.330 --> 00:09:06.840
new ones, especially when the devil was ready to have
124
00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:07.580
Trump's baby.
125
00:09:08.399 --> 00:09:09.360
That was pretty good.
126
00:09:10.740 --> 00:09:17.429
So I think these prophetic pieces show themselves over and over.
127
00:09:17.830 --> 00:09:20.350
And there's a deeper pattern here.
128
00:09:20.850 --> 00:09:24.350
We put Carlin and Bruce and Pryor and Stewart and
129
00:09:24.409 --> 00:09:27.370
Colbert and the Simpsons and all of them together. They're
130
00:09:27.470 --> 00:09:31.409
all doing versions of the same thing. They stand outside
131
00:09:31.500 --> 00:09:37.070
the dominant story long enough to see its contradictions. The
132
00:09:37.110 --> 00:09:40.759
mystic says, the story you think is reality isn't reality.
133
00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:44.480
The prophet says, if you continue believing this story, here's
134
00:09:44.539 --> 00:09:47.960
where it leads. The comedian says, listen to the story
135
00:09:47.980 --> 00:09:48.940
you're telling yourselves.
136
00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:53.269
Isn't it ridiculous? And then everybody laughs.
137
00:09:54.529 --> 00:09:59.690
And sometimes laughter is followed by a very uncomfortable smile.
138
00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:03.240
Silence. Think about our time.
139
00:10:04.340 --> 00:10:08.320
I would say there's more comedians today than ever before. And,
140
00:10:09.580 --> 00:10:12.210
you know, I have to say the Pope has a
141
00:10:12.250 --> 00:10:17.659
prophetic presence and he's the first spiritual person in a
142
00:10:17.700 --> 00:10:21.330
long time other than the Dalai Lama but comedians man
143
00:10:21.350 --> 00:10:25.490
they are cranking it out they are creating these small
144
00:10:25.610 --> 00:10:30.909
little awakenings that allow the truth to sneak past our
145
00:10:30.970 --> 00:10:36.149
defenses and somehow set up home in our souls so
146
00:10:36.769 --> 00:10:40.970
given all that I'm here with Bob Hayes from Florida
147
00:10:41.610 --> 00:10:43.330
and Mary Ann Ruddice from Ohio.
148
00:10:44.289 --> 00:10:46.740
Bob, what say you on this comedic front?
149
00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:54.259
Well, I think that that's a great analogy there, comparing
150
00:10:55.320 --> 00:11:00.440
the comedians to prophets. And I think that we tend
151
00:11:00.460 --> 00:11:03.139
to forget that comedians have been around almost as long
152
00:11:05.620 --> 00:11:09.700
They go back archaeologically and they find graffiti on old temples.
153
00:11:10.279 --> 00:11:11.120
They find.
154
00:11:12.620 --> 00:11:16.860
Dirty jokes written on the walls of the various places
155
00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:21.860
in Pompeii. You've already mentioned the jester in the court
156
00:11:21.879 --> 00:11:24.750
of the king who was the only one allowed to
157
00:11:26.070 --> 00:11:29.110
speak up against the king or point out the king's foibles.
158
00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:36.200
Comedians have always been connected to the media of the time.
159
00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:40.679
One of the.
160
00:11:40.139 --> 00:11:47.250
First politicians slash comedians slash prophets was Ben Franklin with
161
00:11:47.299 --> 00:11:52.450
his Poor Richard's Almanac. And he was jumping on the
162
00:11:52.509 --> 00:11:57.669
whole technological revolution of printing. He had his own printing press,
163
00:11:57.750 --> 00:12:01.110
and he could put out whatever he wanted to say,
164
00:12:01.129 --> 00:12:08.129
and he would interlace his political commentary with witticisms. And
165
00:12:09.500 --> 00:12:15.580
you see Lenny Bruce and Carlin, you mentioned, they're coming
166
00:12:15.700 --> 00:12:20.059
in on the first wave of the new.
167
00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:22.639
Video media.
168
00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:27.720
And now we've got these hundreds of comedians that you
169
00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:29.279
were looking at this week.
170
00:12:29.620 --> 00:12:32.379
That are riding the wave of the Internet.
171
00:12:34.059 --> 00:12:35.539
It used to be that they had to go and
172
00:12:35.580 --> 00:12:37.240
find a club that would let them get on an
173
00:12:37.299 --> 00:12:39.879
open mic. Now they can get on their own mic
174
00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:43.220
and post something, and if it's funny and if people
175
00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:47.230
like it, then they have an opportunity to continue with it.
176
00:12:47.539 --> 00:12:48.590
It's a whole new world.
177
00:12:49.389 --> 00:12:52.850
Go on tour, man. Yeah, and they.
178
00:12:52.769 --> 00:12:53.690
Don't even need to do that.
179
00:12:53.809 --> 00:12:54.289
They can just.
180
00:12:55.269 --> 00:12:56.509
create their own GoFundMe.
181
00:12:59.250 --> 00:13:02.059
I mean it's a different world but I find it
182
00:13:02.100 --> 00:13:06.159
interesting because there's so many comedians but most.
183
00:13:05.940 --> 00:13:08.460
Of them have their own little niche.
184
00:13:08.539 --> 00:13:13.200
They're not painting with a wide brush, they find a
185
00:13:13.419 --> 00:13:18.629
certain area of absurdity, if you will, and they focus
186
00:13:18.710 --> 00:13:21.190
in on that, whether it be politics or whether it
187
00:13:21.269 --> 00:13:24.529
be modern culture or whatever.
188
00:13:25.129 --> 00:13:26.509
And each one of them.
189
00:13:26.409 --> 00:13:29.789
Seems to have their own style, their own way of
190
00:13:29.850 --> 00:13:34.039
getting at it. which makes it fresh each time. You
191
00:13:34.070 --> 00:13:36.690
don't get bored going from one comedian to another because
192
00:13:36.710 --> 00:13:38.750
you're getting a different take, maybe.
193
00:13:38.529 --> 00:13:41.570
On the same kind of absurdity, but in a different.
194
00:13:41.350 --> 00:13:44.110
Flavor, if you will. And you know, you work your
195
00:13:44.149 --> 00:13:46.230
way up the circuit. You know what I mean? From
196
00:13:46.309 --> 00:13:49.419
stand-up to Nate Bergazzi, who we saw....
197
00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:55.159
Like at a basketball court, there were 7,000 people there.
198
00:13:55.620 --> 00:13:56.820
Yeah, absolutely.
199
00:13:57.340 --> 00:14:04.480
And it's so important because there's so many studies psychologically, sociologically,
200
00:14:04.539 --> 00:14:07.620
and so forth of the importance of humor, how it's
201
00:14:07.659 --> 00:14:13.470
an attention reducer, how it is used in cases where
202
00:14:13.509 --> 00:14:17.750
there's a tragedy and humor begins to lift one out
203
00:14:17.789 --> 00:14:22.779
of that tragic situation a little bit. And they almost
204
00:14:22.820 --> 00:14:27.659
become not just our political commentators or our social commentators,
205
00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:29.759
but they're kind of like our therapists.
206
00:14:29.980 --> 00:14:33.320
Yeah. Marianne, what do you have to say as an
207
00:14:33.460 --> 00:14:35.480
opening comment to this conversation?
208
00:14:36.779 --> 00:14:37.340
Well, I think.
209
00:14:39.059 --> 00:14:42.299
I think everything that you kind of laid out there
210
00:14:42.519 --> 00:14:47.580
and everything you've said, Bob, is just like, it's right on.
211
00:14:47.659 --> 00:14:49.440
And I would say, you know, with all of.
212
00:14:49.460 --> 00:14:53.860
These different voices, some of them, many of them are
213
00:14:53.980 --> 00:14:56.960
saying the same thing, but they're just saying it in
214
00:14:57.019 --> 00:15:01.059
a different way and it goes to a different audience.
215
00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:07.090
And so someone who can listen to Richard Pryor may
216
00:15:07.169 --> 00:15:13.909
not be able to appreciate George Carlin, or someone who
217
00:15:13.990 --> 00:15:19.440
appreciates Dave Chappelle may not really hone into.
218
00:15:19.029 --> 00:15:19.980
Some of the other ones.
219
00:15:20.379 --> 00:15:24.940
But underlying all of it, they're all creating social commentary.
220
00:15:25.259 --> 00:15:29.779
They're all looking at the absurdity of life, but they're
221
00:15:29.820 --> 00:15:36.830
also pointing out the truths. that underlie the hypocrisy that
222
00:15:36.909 --> 00:15:42.950
we all live with every day. You know, a comedian
223
00:15:43.450 --> 00:15:47.720
can only keep going if they get laughs, right?
224
00:15:48.179 --> 00:15:50.779
They have to also entertain.
225
00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:57.600
But between that entertainment, you're right, it is a doorway into.
226
00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:04.120
to finding, to exposing people to.
227
00:16:04.019 --> 00:16:07.149
Things they may never have thought of before and looking
228
00:16:07.210 --> 00:16:11.769
at things in ways that may assault their senses. You know,
229
00:16:11.970 --> 00:16:15.789
not everybody laughs at these comedians. Some people want to
230
00:16:15.850 --> 00:16:22.240
silence them. And so it's, but they are, I think
231
00:16:22.259 --> 00:16:23.320
they're a vital.
232
00:16:23.100 --> 00:16:27.500
Part, especially now. And this week I started.
233
00:16:27.220 --> 00:16:31.070
To look up different comedians and I stumbled across a
234
00:16:31.110 --> 00:16:33.470
guy named Bill Hicks who I'd never heard of before.
235
00:16:34.230 --> 00:16:42.049
And he was someone who was out there just, and
236
00:16:42.090 --> 00:16:46.429
he died very young, which I found really amazing that
237
00:16:46.490 --> 00:16:49.470
he was so young and yet he was out there
238
00:16:49.549 --> 00:16:55.200
talking about things that we are seeing permeating and playing
239
00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:55.879
out today.
240
00:16:55.940 --> 00:16:58.279
So talk about a prophetic voice.
241
00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:03.299
Um, here's somebody who's predicting things, but what I liked
242
00:17:03.379 --> 00:17:07.589
about him was he was also very hopeful, um, in
243
00:17:07.619 --> 00:17:11.329
the end. And I think most of them, um, you know,
244
00:17:11.369 --> 00:17:14.609
George Carlin, I love George Carlin, but he was pretty
245
00:17:14.670 --> 00:17:20.400
cynical and, um, There are, you know, Jon Stewart kind
246
00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:21.980
of lightens things up a bit.
247
00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:25.440
So, yeah. Well, and I think one of the things that,
248
00:17:26.180 --> 00:17:28.849
you know, I think about a physicist who discovers a
249
00:17:28.890 --> 00:17:32.569
new particle and then they have to name it. And
250
00:17:32.589 --> 00:17:38.549
I think society is producing new particles, new situations, new
251
00:17:38.609 --> 00:17:40.130
relational situations.
252
00:17:40.730 --> 00:17:42.349
And I love that analogy.
253
00:17:42.509 --> 00:17:46.039
And comedians are able to not just see them, but
254
00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:49.789
to name them. And I think of Colbert, what was
255
00:17:49.869 --> 00:17:53.130
it he said? That the great political concept of the
256
00:17:53.190 --> 00:17:57.069
early 20th century was given to us by Colbert, truthiness.
257
00:17:58.269 --> 00:18:01.490
Something doesn't have to be factually true. It simply has
258
00:18:01.569 --> 00:18:07.819
to feel true. And pointing out that is a great
259
00:18:08.259 --> 00:18:12.259
lens that you can start seeing. Well, that's truthiness. You know,
260
00:18:12.380 --> 00:18:15.859
it gives us a way of describing something that's happening
261
00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:18.289
before our eyes, but we don't know how to describe it.
262
00:18:19.069 --> 00:18:23.349
And I think that those pattern recognitions, I think human
263
00:18:23.410 --> 00:18:26.730
beings are inherently, and Bob, you're part of this Jungian
264
00:18:26.769 --> 00:18:30.589
thing that we've been in for decades now in our conversation.
265
00:18:31.970 --> 00:18:36.990
The pattern recognition is part of the human being. It's
266
00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:40.480
part of one of the main things we do perceptually.
267
00:18:40.940 --> 00:18:43.819
And these people, at least to me in my mind,
268
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:50.660
they have higher acuity. Their resolution is a lot more fine-lined.
269
00:18:51.250 --> 00:18:56.769
They're beyond HDTV and K4 or whatever the fuck it is.
270
00:18:56.930 --> 00:19:00.789
It's not a coincidence that most cultures have had an
271
00:19:00.950 --> 00:19:03.539
archetype of the trickster slash jokester.
272
00:19:04.109 --> 00:19:06.710
As part of their pantheon.
273
00:19:06.170 --> 00:19:10.750
Of gods or of labeling forces of the universe. And
274
00:19:11.529 --> 00:19:16.769
maybe in some cases, one of the more important archetypes
275
00:19:17.609 --> 00:19:24.670
in Greek culture, Hermes was the god of the doorway
276
00:19:25.170 --> 00:19:28.240
that allowed you to move to new ways of thinking.
277
00:19:29.180 --> 00:19:34.259
And so this is nothing new. And it's just a
278
00:19:34.339 --> 00:19:37.359
new way of receiving it. And one other thing I
279
00:19:37.380 --> 00:19:39.809
was going to say, you mentioned, both of you had mentioned,
280
00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:42.990
they make us laugh. Well, I think that it's even
281
00:19:43.029 --> 00:19:48.849
beyond that. They allow us to laugh. Sometimes we don't
282
00:19:48.990 --> 00:19:51.430
even have control. We may not even know why we're
283
00:19:51.450 --> 00:19:55.390
laughing because it's like an autonomic function.
284
00:19:56.170 --> 00:19:58.559
And they give us.
285
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:03.640
A cue that allows us to laugh at a situation
286
00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:06.460
and then see that situation in a different way.
287
00:20:07.150 --> 00:20:07.490
Yeah.
288
00:20:07.569 --> 00:20:10.589
Well, and I think things are funny because they're true.
289
00:20:11.250 --> 00:20:14.569
And as the old time prophets, I mean, if we're
290
00:20:14.630 --> 00:20:17.750
going to stick with this analogy of comedians as prophets,
291
00:20:18.029 --> 00:20:21.450
the old time prophets pointed out truths. And that's what
292
00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:24.579
these comedians doing. And that's what makes us laugh because
293
00:20:24.619 --> 00:20:28.619
we know it's true. And yet we allow ourselves to
294
00:20:28.779 --> 00:20:29.480
be deluded.
295
00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:31.200
It's funny, though.
296
00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:33.640
Correct me if I'm wrong, Red Hawk. I don't think
297
00:20:33.700 --> 00:20:38.039
that there's a humorous prophet in the Bible. At least
298
00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:41.240
not that I can recall. They were always very serious,
299
00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:44.000
you know. God is going to smite us if we
300
00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:48.950
don't do this and that. I wonder if some of
301
00:20:49.009 --> 00:20:51.329
the teachings might have gone over a little better if
302
00:20:51.369 --> 00:20:53.309
there had been a humorous prophet.
303
00:20:53.450 --> 00:20:57.269
And, you know, they might have. Just who wrote it
304
00:20:57.349 --> 00:21:00.549
down was probably not the prophet. It was somebody who
305
00:21:00.589 --> 00:21:04.950
was dogmatic and trying to encapsulate them. I mean, Jesus,
306
00:21:05.029 --> 00:21:07.740
one of my favorite pictures of Jesus was in a
307
00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:11.720
Harvey Cox article in Playboy. And it's got Jesus in
308
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:12.519
a belly laugh.
309
00:21:13.539 --> 00:21:16.240
And, you know.
310
00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:19.579
I think he had a really good sense of humor.
311
00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:22.819
I think he was goofing on Caesar a lot. I
312
00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:28.259
think he was goofing on the foibles of status, you know,
313
00:21:28.619 --> 00:21:31.970
and things like that. And the Gospels catch a little
314
00:21:32.009 --> 00:21:32.450
bit of it.
315
00:21:35.009 --> 00:21:37.789
But it doesn't catch, I don't think, the spirit of
316
00:21:37.849 --> 00:21:39.130
it all the time.
317
00:21:39.470 --> 00:21:44.329
And I think that in this time, we can't look
318
00:21:44.369 --> 00:21:45.829
to the church for prophetic knowledge.
319
00:21:46.339 --> 00:21:47.880
Thinking although i think.
320
00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:54.880
Pope leo go man go um but the comedians are
321
00:21:54.940 --> 00:21:58.940
saying it i mean even the ones who aren't what
322
00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:03.109
i would call uh challenging culture at a big level
323
00:22:03.740 --> 00:22:07.789
they're challenging it at a small level uh there's this
324
00:22:07.930 --> 00:22:11.589
asian guy i can't remember his name but he's hilarious
325
00:22:11.670 --> 00:22:17.789
man And he's from Alabama, from a little town, and
326
00:22:17.869 --> 00:22:19.390
he's the only Asian there.
327
00:22:19.410 --> 00:22:24.829
Except for his wedding. Except for his wedding, yeah. And,
328
00:22:24.890 --> 00:22:25.289
you know, it.
329
00:22:26.950 --> 00:22:32.369
Just shows you the contrasts. of cultures you know like
330
00:22:32.569 --> 00:22:36.130
like oil and water or alcohol and water which ones
331
00:22:36.190 --> 00:22:38.430
are going to blend together and which aren't and those
332
00:22:38.470 --> 00:22:44.250
that don't blend together humor can somehow put enough heat
333
00:22:44.329 --> 00:22:47.390
on it that makes them melt together i don't know
334
00:22:47.710 --> 00:22:52.430
but i do know it leads us somewhere beyond ourselves
335
00:22:53.049 --> 00:22:56.029
and a way of looking at the world that is
336
00:22:56.670 --> 00:23:02.609
more complete even though What completes it is knowing how
337
00:23:02.670 --> 00:23:03.789
hypocritical we are.
338
00:23:04.869 --> 00:23:09.109
Well, you know, and something else that, you know, when
339
00:23:09.130 --> 00:23:12.970
you get down to that they are speaking.
340
00:23:12.730 --> 00:23:16.660
Truth, we're living in a time where we can't really
341
00:23:16.740 --> 00:23:19.759
discern what is true for the most part.
342
00:23:20.220 --> 00:23:24.579
And most of the media, the stories that they're covering
343
00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:29.309
are You don't know. Everything is slanted in a certain way.
344
00:23:29.670 --> 00:23:33.089
And I think the comedian is coming in and removing
345
00:23:33.170 --> 00:23:38.190
the slant and, like you said before, honing into what
346
00:23:38.289 --> 00:23:38.950
is that truth.
347
00:23:38.990 --> 00:23:40.190
I think of John Oliver.
348
00:23:40.630 --> 00:23:45.420
And he's brilliant in he does longer pieces. And he
349
00:23:45.500 --> 00:23:49.960
really digs into issues and what's happening. But he does
350
00:23:50.019 --> 00:23:54.220
it in such a way that is engaging and comedic.
351
00:23:54.720 --> 00:24:00.400
But it's very serious. He talks about some very serious
352
00:24:00.500 --> 00:24:04.319
flaws in our systems. And so I think being.
353
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:06.490
Open to, you know, there was a time when I
354
00:24:06.569 --> 00:24:09.569
remember when Jon Stewart first started on The Daily Show.
355
00:24:10.210 --> 00:24:14.589
And there was a part of me that resisted that
356
00:24:15.009 --> 00:24:20.640
because it felt like we're going to start trivializing these things.
357
00:24:22.099 --> 00:24:26.339
important topics and yet those are the places where you're
358
00:24:26.359 --> 00:24:26.920
going to get.
359
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:30.180
The truth now yeah and it's just.
360
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:33.670
Yeah well you know one article i read on john
361
00:24:33.730 --> 00:24:35.789
stewart said here's the way it works and he called
362
00:24:35.970 --> 00:24:39.049
they call them the prophet of mediated reality he says
363
00:24:39.069 --> 00:24:44.059
he they he exposed the theater of political communication a
364
00:24:44.099 --> 00:24:49.059
politician says one thing The cable news personality interprets it.
365
00:24:49.500 --> 00:24:54.900
Another politician responds. The network packages the conflict. Everyone talks
366
00:24:54.980 --> 00:24:59.799
about the spectacle. Meanwhile, reality sits somewhere outside the television screen.
367
00:25:00.140 --> 00:25:05.240
Politics isn't necessarily the pursuit of truth. It has become
368
00:25:05.319 --> 00:25:09.950
the management of narratives. And that's, you know, if you
369
00:25:10.069 --> 00:25:12.930
start looking at what the different comedians were doing and
370
00:25:13.009 --> 00:25:16.390
what's the pearl of their intent, that was part of
371
00:25:16.769 --> 00:25:20.059
Jon Stewart's whole The Daily Show. And I think it's
372
00:25:20.099 --> 00:25:23.160
still doing that, although it's, you know, now has, I think,
373
00:25:23.220 --> 00:25:25.279
five different comedians or something doing it.
374
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:30.460
Well, and Trevor Noah was another one that he brought
375
00:25:30.500 --> 00:25:33.720
to the forefront, who was absolutely brilliant.
376
00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:36.549
Boy, Tolkien.
377
00:25:37.769 --> 00:25:41.349
Well, they've got a few really brilliant ones. Daisy Leinick
378
00:25:41.670 --> 00:25:48.660
is absolutely terrific. And the names all escape me now,
379
00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:53.019
but the guy that goes out to the Trump rallies
380
00:25:53.220 --> 00:25:58.059
and interviews the Trump supporters. And he does it very calmly,
381
00:25:58.500 --> 00:26:02.200
but you see the absurdity so clearly.
382
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:07.579
And the thing about it is, People don't know it's
383
00:26:07.619 --> 00:26:11.359
a comedy thing. They don't see that they're the brunt
384
00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:14.049
of the joke, and the joke is.
385
00:26:15.710 --> 00:26:16.609
One of two things.
386
00:26:17.430 --> 00:26:22.309
After high school, they were afraid to leave home, and two,
387
00:26:22.390 --> 00:26:25.829
they weren't smart enough to go to any college anyway. And,
388
00:26:25.849 --> 00:26:29.210
you know, no offense, but we need to start using
389
00:26:29.259 --> 00:26:30.240
the word stupid.
390
00:26:30.259 --> 00:26:30.720
Stupid.
391
00:26:32.410 --> 00:26:34.369
And I think that comedian, I don't know who he
392
00:26:34.430 --> 00:26:36.730
is who's doing those interviews, but I've seen a bunch
393
00:26:36.769 --> 00:26:42.650
of those. And it's just showing not just the absurdity,
394
00:26:43.109 --> 00:26:44.490
but the stupidity.
395
00:26:45.750 --> 00:26:49.680
Well, yeah, and they're oblivious to what's happening. And when
396
00:26:49.700 --> 00:26:50.039
they get.
397
00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:55.299
When they confront that cognizant dissonance, it's like they don't
398
00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:56.380
know what to do with it.
399
00:26:56.700 --> 00:27:00.750
But, you know, over 50% of America is under a
400
00:27:00.809 --> 00:27:06.490
sixth grade reading level. You know, it's just amazing.
401
00:27:06.490 --> 00:27:06.670
60%?
402
00:27:06.670 --> 00:27:09.799
Something like that. I read it today that it was,
403
00:27:10.539 --> 00:27:10.799
you know.
404
00:27:11.390 --> 00:27:14.009
Uh, and then it took it state by state and
405
00:27:14.049 --> 00:27:17.049
talked about illiteracy, like in Georgia, like one out of
406
00:27:17.130 --> 00:27:21.160
five is illiterate in Georgia, something like that. Uh, we,
407
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:25.200
our education system has failed us in, in ways that
408
00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:27.980
are amazing. And I don't think it failed me. I
409
00:27:28.019 --> 00:27:31.250
got in under the wire, really good school. I think,
410
00:27:31.849 --> 00:27:34.069
you know, I learned more than I thought I did.
411
00:27:34.109 --> 00:27:35.289
And I was a troublemaker.
412
00:27:35.309 --> 00:27:39.420
Uh, But you were going through school a long time.
413
00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:40.480
Ago, too. That's what I'm saying.
414
00:27:40.599 --> 00:27:44.799
When I went through, the education system was post-war, and
415
00:27:44.839 --> 00:27:46.609
we're going to do this, and we're going to take
416
00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:47.690
care of our kids.
417
00:27:48.869 --> 00:27:51.509
You learned civics and all that kind of geography.
418
00:27:57.880 --> 00:28:00.880
You could go to music school and, you know, I
419
00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:05.079
learned to play ukulele. I learned about history of classical music.
420
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:07.829
We had a concert time. You know, there were these
421
00:28:08.049 --> 00:28:12.670
we had a theory hour. It was awesome. And I
422
00:28:12.710 --> 00:28:16.130
just I took it for granted. And I think that
423
00:28:16.250 --> 00:28:19.740
part of what's going on today is. is there are
424
00:28:19.940 --> 00:28:23.160
cracks in the system. If you listen to our previous
425
00:28:23.220 --> 00:28:26.890
podcast on End of the World, one of the positions
426
00:28:26.950 --> 00:28:30.329
that we can go in this fork in the road
427
00:28:30.609 --> 00:28:36.170
is fragmentation. And I think that comedians are brilliant in
428
00:28:37.289 --> 00:28:41.730
giving us a language and also giving us a heart
429
00:28:42.289 --> 00:28:47.230
so that we can somehow compassionately believe embrace our own
430
00:28:47.299 --> 00:28:52.380
fragmentation in a way that isn't futile, but is one
431
00:28:52.420 --> 00:28:54.839
that becomes more hopeful, if that makes.
432
00:28:54.720 --> 00:28:55.619
Any fucking sense.
433
00:28:56.319 --> 00:28:59.940
Well, yeah. And it's also, it releases our pressure valves
434
00:29:00.420 --> 00:29:00.880
as well.
435
00:29:01.180 --> 00:29:01.839
Yeah.
436
00:29:02.500 --> 00:29:06.460
You know, giving us an outlet to be able to go, oh,
437
00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:08.319
I'm not crazy.
438
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:09.000
And laugh about it.
439
00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:14.539
Or I am crazy, but I'm not alone. So, Marianne,
440
00:29:14.619 --> 00:29:15.480
final comments?
441
00:29:17.509 --> 00:29:26.589
You know, I.
442
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:30.779
Think when we look at the world, the comedians among
443
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:37.890
us are pointing out things that are the truth. And
444
00:29:38.630 --> 00:29:41.630
if we can just start to shift the way we
445
00:29:41.750 --> 00:29:44.509
see things, um, slightly, um.
446
00:29:45.269 --> 00:29:46.450
And I think they're doing that.
447
00:29:46.470 --> 00:29:49.150
I mean, you were talking about Jordan Klepper talking to
448
00:29:49.529 --> 00:29:56.349
people who had never considered, um, the, the, the, um,
449
00:29:57.390 --> 00:30:01.430
the dissonance that they were entertaining. And some of them
450
00:30:01.470 --> 00:30:04.710
you could see would go, oh, and I wonder what
451
00:30:04.779 --> 00:30:08.779
happens after they leave that interview. And if it does
452
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:12.039
have an impact, if it does make something. So I
453
00:30:12.099 --> 00:30:13.880
think we just need to.
454
00:30:15.099 --> 00:30:16.720
Keep on keeping on and laugh.
455
00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:17.859
Yeah, amen.
456
00:30:18.259 --> 00:30:19.980
Laughter the best medicine, right?
457
00:30:20.140 --> 00:30:23.000
I love it. Bob, final comments?
458
00:30:23.740 --> 00:30:27.680
Well, I think we can enjoy comedians But I think
459
00:30:28.099 --> 00:30:35.160
I'll use one of Marianne's favorite terms, discernment. I think
460
00:30:35.220 --> 00:30:41.930
we can use the whole situation of the comedian as
461
00:30:41.970 --> 00:30:45.329
a way to discern what's going on outside of the comedy.
462
00:30:45.710 --> 00:30:49.220
Let's take a look at who are trying to stop
463
00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:54.480
the comedians, who are trying to silence the comedians. And
464
00:30:55.250 --> 00:30:57.809
take a look, use our discernment to say, well, why
465
00:30:57.890 --> 00:31:02.480
is this happening? What is it about these people that
466
00:31:02.660 --> 00:31:06.200
they want to hide? And that takes us to a
467
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:09.640
whole new level of awareness and discernment.
468
00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:12.480
And a new kind of comedian that can point that out.
469
00:31:15.339 --> 00:31:16.779
You got a job, Bob.
470
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:22.210
When I was in college, we were shown a movie
471
00:31:22.289 --> 00:31:28.029
on meditation, and the whole thing was about Alan Watts.
472
00:31:28.250 --> 00:31:31.359
It was narrated by him. And at the very end,
473
00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:35.599
he says, you know what? If we have all of
474
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:40.210
this and we don't do what's most human— What's the point?
475
00:31:40.289 --> 00:31:43.869
And then he walks into the pond with all these
476
00:31:43.950 --> 00:31:47.769
lotuses floating in it. And he says, we have to laugh.
477
00:31:48.289 --> 00:31:50.190
And then he bursts out laughing. And that's how the
478
00:31:50.230 --> 00:31:54.319
film ends. And he calls it a form of meditation.
479
00:31:54.920 --> 00:31:59.859
And I would concur with that. You know, as I
480
00:31:59.880 --> 00:32:03.180
was doing the study this week, something that kept coming
481
00:32:03.220 --> 00:32:08.630
to mind was how fortunate I am. And that's because
482
00:32:08.690 --> 00:32:13.730
I have friends, not just my cohorts here. But, you know,
483
00:32:14.250 --> 00:32:16.750
we had a small little dinner party the other night,
484
00:32:16.930 --> 00:32:18.430
just a few different friends.
485
00:32:18.589 --> 00:32:20.670
Edie's learning guitar and.
486
00:32:20.609 --> 00:32:23.559
She wanted to show what she's learned so far.
487
00:32:23.579 --> 00:32:28.019
It was just a small little intimate thing. And we
488
00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:31.500
have a party. every year it's called we call.
489
00:32:31.420 --> 00:32:33.809
It the pond party we don't have a very big
490
00:32:33.829 --> 00:32:37.369
pond it's probably eight by five something like that but
491
00:32:37.430 --> 00:32:40.089
it's alive it's a living thing and we have a
492
00:32:40.170 --> 00:32:44.299
party we've had everywhere from 150 to 75 somewhere in
493
00:32:44.339 --> 00:32:48.839
there people and i look upon all those friends and
494
00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:55.259
i realize they're justice people You know, they work in nonprofits.
495
00:32:55.299 --> 00:33:00.259
They work as lawyers. They work as judges. Some are doctors, ministers.
496
00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:04.430
And I just want to talk next week about friends
497
00:33:05.269 --> 00:33:07.450
and how fortunate anybody is.
498
00:33:07.809 --> 00:33:08.609
That has a friend.
499
00:33:08.630 --> 00:33:14.769
Because right now, friendship is at a high, high cost,
500
00:33:15.250 --> 00:33:17.619
and fewer people have friends.
501
00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:20.500
Until next week, be well.
