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Paula: Welcome to "TesseLeads"
with your host, "Tesse Akpeki,
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and co host, me, Paula Okonneh.
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"TesseLeads" is a safe, sensitive,
and supportive place and space to
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share, hear, and tell all your stories
and experiences, and we mean all.
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We get super curious about the
dilemma that shape our future and
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the journeys that we are all on.
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Today's topic is on vulnerability.
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And it's called "vulnerability and my
journey towards connecting with myself".
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Our guest is David Taylor Klaus.
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And normally I would read his bio, but
now today he's going to introduce himself.
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So welcome to "TesseLeads"
and floor is yours.
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David: Great to be here.
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Thank you.
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You know, I love chatting with you two.
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Paula: We love you too.
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David: Introduction.
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You know, I'm always fascinated by the
opportunity to introduce myself because
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so often when I'm introduced, you get
to hear the whole boring biography.
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And what I do professionally is fine,
but that's just a fraction of who I am.
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I spend a lot of my time in the
world ranting against the lie that
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is work life balance and teaching
people life rhythm instead.
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And I do that because I spend a
really long time getting it wrong
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and being over calibrated and over
performing and over exhausted.
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Yes, I've been an entrepreneur for 30
odd years, but the things I'm proudest
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of, the things that define me more,
I've been married to a woman I've known
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since I was 11 for 32 years as of next
week, we have three kids that we're
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all active parts of each other's lives.
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You know, the love is hard.
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I mean, love is easy.
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That's the stuff that's
baked in like is hard.
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And we all like each other.
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And got a fabulous daughter in law and
some adorable, significant others that
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are dating the ones that aren't married.
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So they're all part of our world.
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And I define myself by my impact wake
with friends, with family, with community.
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And yeah, as a professional coach for
entrepreneurs and executives, I'm really
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attentive to what my impact wake is there.
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That's just a portion of my life, right?
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So who am I?
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At the core, I'm a leader
and I have a lot of fun.
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So how's that for
capturing who I am, Paula?
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Paula: I absolutely love it.
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And I'm sure if I asked you to repeat
that again, we'll get a different
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version, but just as impactful.
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David: My wife, a bunch of years
ago, went to New York to film some
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videos for a health care company.
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And they got the room all set up,
all the production people, and at
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one point the director says, oh, that
was great, but one of the lights was
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messed up, can you do that again?
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And Elaine said, No,
you asked me a question.
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I answered it.
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I couldn't possibly answer
it the same way again.
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And what she and I talked about after
that is that, you know, when she's
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completely present in the moment, she's
able to answer it and bring everything
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that's part of who she is to that.
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But she's not conscious of what she's
saying as she's saying it because she's
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totally present to the moment and worked
a really long time to be able to do that.
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To be so present to the moment
and so clear about what my
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message is and what my purpose is.
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When I come from there, that's when,
in fact, I believe it's the only time
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when I have the impact I want to have.
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So, thank you for that opportunity.
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Tesse: That's so powerful, David.
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It's really, really powerful.
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You know, when I, when Paula and
I talked about what we'll ask you
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today, connecting with yourself.
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You don't know I'm going to ask that
question, but I said to Paula that from
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the first moment I met you virtually,
you seem to me like somebody who is
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connected with yourself, warts and all.
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And I was so curious about that
level of connection to yourself.
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And that curiosity is leading
me to say a bit more about that.
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What footsteps have helped you
to be in this place of present
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in the moment, present to others?
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David: So probably an answer you're not
expecting, but 40 years of navigating
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depression has been critical to that.
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You know, so much of what happens when
you have depression is perseverating over
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the past or freaking out about the future.
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You cannot imagine the futures
I've invented and imagined
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that never happened, right?
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And sitting with depression, you
learn to be present to the moment,
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to what's real and what's there.
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And it's also a brilliant way to
see what your impact is on others.
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Because you can't help but see
what your impact is in the moment
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when you're present to the moment.
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As opposed to, oh my God,
what were they thinking?
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What are they thinking now?
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All the things that we do when
we recast what's happened.
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There's a fabulous author who
recently passed away, whose
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name now I can't remember.
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But the quote is, "you'll, you'll
find you worry less about what
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other people think about you when
you realize how seldom they do".
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We're all so wrapped up living our own
lives and figuring out our own stuff
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that we're very rarely thinking about
other people as much as other people
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think they're being thought about.
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And so as a way to engage with
other people, let's look at
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it in terms of a marriage.
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You can't engage with your partner
who they used to be and be in
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service of the relationship.
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You can't be in relationship with the
person you hope they'll become and
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be in service of the relationship.
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Because the only time the relationship
is happening is right now.
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And when we're interacting with the
person that we're in relationship with, as
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anybody other than who I am in the moment,
who they are in the moment, you're not
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in relationship, you're in a tug of war.
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And no, I'm not a relationship coach,
and yet, when you look at how you
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are being in the world, wow, isn't
that the ultimate form of leadership?
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Being aware of how you're being in
the world and how you want to be?
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So I think that has a lot to do
with my connection with myself.
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And by the way, being connected with
myself, warts and all, the warts
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aren't hard to be in connection with.
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I mean, I think a lot of us are really
clear on the warts about ourselves.
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The work is getting clear
about the shiny bits, right?
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The positive elements and really
owning everything in between.
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That's what's important about being
connected to yourself is the full range.
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Tesse: I love it.
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The shiny bits, the bits in between.
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I really, really love it.
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You know, you talk about, and no, I'm
not surprised about the depression piece.
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I'm not surprised about that.
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Because whenever we connect with you,
there's something about your understanding
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that comes across and it's like it
bridges things, it's a bridging thing,
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and that comes from somewhere very deep,
that is healing, that is uncovering.
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You can't actually make that up.
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You can't really make that up.
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You know, that is something
that exists in you.
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So along that journey, were there some
things that were laid bare for you that
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you kind of, as you began to do the
shiny bits in between till now, were
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there some kind of high, you know, I
wouldn't say, I want to say highlights.
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But it's things that accord
for you that you said, yeah,
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aha, for you in that journey.
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David: Yeah, my physical
presence and the impact of it.
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I'm not a large human being.
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I think before I started the
inevitable age gifted shrinking.
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I was about five, just
shy of five foot 11.
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Sorry, I don't know to translate that.
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And.
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I never realized how imposing
that can be for people that are
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smaller, or if I get too close.
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And I tend to be very energetic and
effusive, and in person my energy can
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be very large, much larger than I am.
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And it was a very hard lesson for me to
learn that sometimes my excitement and
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enthusiasm can come across threatening.
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And whenever the gap between
one's intended impact and one's
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actual impact is drawn into
stark reveal, wow, that can suck.
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It's way past painful.
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It's a rude awakening.
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And learning to be attentive
about my unintended impact and
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even the unspoken impact that's
that changed my leadership a lot.
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And it wasn't about recoiling,
it was about paying attention
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to my leadership wake.
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And for me that language
has always been important.
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You know, whether you've ever been
in a boat or not, the important thing
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is as a boat or any, or any airship
moves through space, it has a wake that
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trails behind it, a wake of impact.
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The air and the water are disturbed
and it impacts other things around it.
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And leaders are just like that, right?
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As you move through a space, I had a
client where one of the partners lived
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several hours away, seven hours away.
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And he would drive in for, you know,
late morning meetings on Monday
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and go back home Thursday evening.
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And oh my God, if he had a bad drive
on that Monday, oh my, as he walked
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to the office, his energy, that
irritation and agitation was permeating.
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It was setting the weather.
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And as he walked through, you could
watch people in the office shrink.
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And he wondered why Mondays
were hell in the office.
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Right.
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He was totally oblivious to his impact,
because he would stomp through there,
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get into his office, collect himself,
and then come back out, and everybody's
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shattered waiting for the explosion.
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And he's all happy, now
he's at his cup of coffee.
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He's ready to be human and
nobody wants to be near him.
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And he starts to cave in
because he feels excluded.
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Doesn't feel like he belong.
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And he's complaining to
me and my own company.
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I've been here 25 years.
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I'm one of the founders and
I don't feel like I belong.
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So I think as people become aware
of their impact wake, personally,
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professionally, you name it.
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I think that's a critical piece to
learning how to have the impact in the
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world you want to have in the world by
unpacking the impact you are having.
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Tesse: Wow.
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Impact wake.
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Consciousness.
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Paula: That's the word that's
jumping out for me," Impact Wake".
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Yeah.
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David, you have a lot of gifts.
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Every time I speak with
you, I leave, I've learned.
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I tell myself, let me go back track.
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I tell myself every day when I wake
up, I have to learn something new.
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But every time that we do have a
conversation with you, I learned
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some things, not just something new.
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And Impact wake makes me think
of, you got a lot of gifts.
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What would you say your greatest gift is?
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You're not boasting.
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You know, just now you talked about
when you discovered that you had an
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impact, sometimes that wasn't positive.
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You said you didn't recoil, you
just became more aware of it.
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So this is kind of like the opposite.
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What would you say your greatest gift is?
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You're not boasting, but
you're just aware of it.
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David: Yeah.
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And thanks for asking.
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I think it has to do with my
ability to read energy and connect.
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And by the way, yes, some of it's
instinct, some of it was necessary
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as a mechanism for navigating the
world that I came through, and some
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of it is hard earned and practiced.
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But it's the ability to read the
energy of the space and respond to it.
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Even if it's not at this point,
conscious, because it makes a difference.
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I've walked into room as the, I don't
know what number presenter I was, but
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the last person had just spent 90 minutes
in the room talking with people about
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their experiences with sexual assault.
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And I walk into the room and oh my
God, you know, my conversation that
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I was going to be having in the
room was going to be in a totally
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different direction and very energetic.
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And I walk into the room
and I just felt the weight.
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If I'd come in and talked about what
I had planned to talk about, it would
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have been not just tone deaf, it would
have been emotionally an assault.
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And so I had to change everything
about the way I approached the room.
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How I moved onto the stage.
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How I greeted people.
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How I started the conversation.
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What we talked about,
it changed everything.
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And so my 90 minutes was nothing that had
been written and prepared and practiced.
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And I think it's important
to be able to read the room,
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the space, the relationship.
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Now trust me, I am not a hundred
percent and I am reminded of that by
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my children and my spouse every day.
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When I misread what's there, and you
know, we've had conversations about,
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you make a mess, you clean it up, you
know, you don't sweep it under the rug.
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Yeah, it's learning how
to read what's there.
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It's something that I do
exceptionally well, and I think it's
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one of the reasons I have been as
successful as I've been as a coach.
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Paula: I agree.
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That is a great gift.
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Tesse?
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Tesse: Yeah.
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I mean, you know, it's not often
that I'm quiet, but it's true.
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I've just kind of taken that in
the greatest gift to read the room.
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You know, I'm thinking particularly of
something that I heard this week, which
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was that when we are traumatized and
sometimes we're not even aware of the
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impact of the trauma, then we can miscue.
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We can mishear.
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We can miscue.
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We can misinterpret.
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We can go into a place of such negativity.
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Back to the example you're giving that
the world becomes a hard place for us
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and others because of the miscuing.
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And why I was silent was that I
was listening to what you were
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saying, David, and how you read
the room and adjust accordingly.
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And this question, in terms of your
journey towards connecting with yourself,
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is how can others, any kind of tips
you have for them being able to connect
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with, you know, themselves in a way that
that misreading is not as impactful.
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I mean, I know for myself and Paula you
know this, I could misread like anything
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and what I'm misreading, what I'm feeling,
it's real for me, but actually it's
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not there the way that I think it is.
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And it's a real getting better is
being able to see and feel more of what
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really is there, rather than what is
imagined because of the trauma you've
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been through, or I've been through.
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Does that make any sense?
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That question?
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David: And it does.
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It's the Responding to what's
really there is a sticky point.
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Because you and I have a conversation.
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There are three versions
of that conversation.
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There's what was actually said,
there's how I experienced it, and
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there's how you experienced it.
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And it's very rare that
any pair of them align.
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And so I think it's important that
that, it's almost like we all have
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our own personal sense of reality.
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So part of the connection piece is
grace, and part of it is, I don't
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think how to say it, because we can't
change or impact what happens to us.
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The only control we have
is how we respond to it.
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And when we respond to what occurs
by labeling it and having an
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emotional response to that and saying
that that's exactly what happened
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and only what happened and I am
absolutely right, that's what it is.
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Wow, you're stuck, right?
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Because then there are no
other ways to look at it.
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There are no other options to see it.
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In any experience, if we can say,
oh, well, what else could that mean?
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What else could that mean?
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And what else in yourself
like a five year old does?
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Ooh, what else?
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What else?
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Beyond reason, come up with as many
different ways to see it as possible.
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It allows you to get curious about what's
the filter through which I'm seeing it?
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What's the lens I'm seeing this through?
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And whether it's something that comes
from trauma or anything in the way
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we've been educated or socialized or
acculturated, doesn't matter that's
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the lens you use to collect evidence.
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So the lenses I use to see the
world color the evidence that I
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collect, and the evidence that I
collect determines my experience.
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So if we change our lens,
we change our lives.
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This is the chance to say,
oh, how else can I see this?
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What if he just had a crappy drive
and is storming through the office
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because that guy cut him off right
before he got in the parking lot?
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00:16:27,945 --> 00:16:29,955
What if this has nothing to do with me?
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What if it's just like last week?
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Right?
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I wonder what's going on with him.
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I wonder what's really going on.
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I wonder what's going on with me.
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Who did that remind me of?
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00:16:39,454 --> 00:16:40,584
There's so many things.
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00:16:40,935 --> 00:16:45,154
It's like put on that hat and become
the fascinated anthropologist and
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00:16:45,154 --> 00:16:46,864
say, ooh, what's going on there?
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What else could it be?
307
00:16:48,814 --> 00:16:49,614
What else could it be?
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00:16:49,984 --> 00:16:54,564
When you get out of the clutter of
being sure and right about something
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you open up an amazing amount of
possibility, and that's where you
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00:16:58,379 --> 00:16:59,889
can really meet yourself, right?
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It's not the things that we know.
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00:17:01,930 --> 00:17:03,439
It's not the thing,
what did Mark Twain say?
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00:17:03,439 --> 00:17:06,029
It's not the things that don't,
It's not the things that we don't
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00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:07,279
know that gets us in trouble.
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00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,250
It's the things we know
for sure that we know.
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Tesse: Wow.
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David: That's where we get stuck.
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Tesse: I love it.
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I really do.
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And the question that is coming
into my mind is what you, the David
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sitting, looking at Paula and I,
you know, seeing you, what would
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00:17:22,979 --> 00:17:27,284
you say to the younger David, you
know, knowing what you know now.
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00:17:29,705 --> 00:17:30,554
David: Lighten up.
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00:17:31,324 --> 00:17:32,674
Stop taking everything to them.
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Seriously.
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I mean, seriously.
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00:17:35,025 --> 00:17:39,105
And by the way, the younger
David could be 30 or 15 or 10.
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Doesn't matter.
329
00:17:40,065 --> 00:17:42,214
Maybe 40.
330
00:17:42,215 --> 00:17:44,955
We, I took everything so seriously.
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I continually get better at that.
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It's, nothing is life
and death except dying.
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Nothing.
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00:17:52,745 --> 00:17:56,705
Yet we make up so much that is
life and death, that is severe,
335
00:17:56,705 --> 00:17:58,344
that is the end of the world.
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00:17:58,505 --> 00:18:00,245
No, it's not.
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I mean, the planet's going to
survive us anyway, so none of us are
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00:18:03,955 --> 00:18:05,014
going to see the end of the world.
339
00:18:05,435 --> 00:18:07,324
We just make up that it's
the end of our world.
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And it's not.
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00:18:08,725 --> 00:18:13,865
Every one of us, here in the room
and watching, has experienced things
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00:18:13,865 --> 00:18:15,525
that we never thought we'd get over.
343
00:18:16,105 --> 00:18:19,275
We've taken on things that we thought
were impossible and achieved them.
344
00:18:19,885 --> 00:18:22,445
We've had things forced upon
us that we never wanted to do
345
00:18:22,475 --> 00:18:23,505
and never thought we could.
346
00:18:23,505 --> 00:18:24,185
And guess what?
347
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We did.
348
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It happens all the time.
349
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We make stuff up.
350
00:18:30,264 --> 00:18:31,814
What if we made up the opposite?
351
00:18:32,494 --> 00:18:35,604
It's delusional to think
you can't do things.
352
00:18:35,984 --> 00:18:38,054
It's as delusional as
it is to think you can.
353
00:18:38,534 --> 00:18:41,005
Well, why not pick the one that serves?
354
00:18:41,495 --> 00:18:44,364
If I believe everything I look at
is impossible or insurmountable,
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00:18:44,364 --> 00:18:47,014
or if it fails, it's the end
of the world, guess what?
356
00:18:47,354 --> 00:18:47,754
It is.
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00:18:48,105 --> 00:18:51,565
But if I look at it is, oh, okay, I
bombed that one, I learned one way
358
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not to do it, what if I try that?
359
00:18:53,115 --> 00:18:56,674
If you believe that you can, you have
a much better chance of being able to.
360
00:18:57,024 --> 00:18:58,684
If you believe you
can't, oh, you're right.
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Tesse: Yeah, heh heh.
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00:19:00,565 --> 00:19:03,250
David: I had a client, It
was just such a simple thing.
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A client was about to have to move
and they said, this move is going
364
00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:08,380
to be hard and it's going to suck.
365
00:19:08,610 --> 00:19:11,880
I said, yes, it will be because
you just decided it will be.
366
00:19:12,069 --> 00:19:14,820
What if you started off with, what
will this look like when it's easy?
367
00:19:15,089 --> 00:19:17,139
What a different mindset, what
a different way to look at it.
368
00:19:17,329 --> 00:19:18,870
What will this look like when it's easy?
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00:19:19,170 --> 00:19:20,429
Tesse: I love that question.
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00:19:20,909 --> 00:19:22,330
David: I wish I'd done that
when I was a lot younger.
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00:19:22,330 --> 00:19:23,320
Tesse: I love that question.
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00:19:23,330 --> 00:19:25,440
What would it look like if it's easy?
373
00:19:25,679 --> 00:19:28,400
Paula, what do you think of that question?
374
00:19:28,460 --> 00:19:30,330
Paula: I think that's like a key message.
375
00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:34,074
What would it look like if it's easy?
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00:19:34,074 --> 00:19:35,495
I mean, we hear it in different ways.
377
00:19:35,585 --> 00:19:36,074
Tesse: Or when?
378
00:19:36,165 --> 00:19:36,784
When it's easy?
379
00:19:37,045 --> 00:19:37,335
Yeah.
380
00:19:37,435 --> 00:19:37,864
Paula: Yeah.
381
00:19:37,945 --> 00:19:38,705
What would it look like?
382
00:19:38,705 --> 00:19:41,985
David: It is because, you know, I heard
Tim Ferriss say, what if it were easy?
383
00:19:41,985 --> 00:19:45,465
And what I don't like
about that is the if.
384
00:19:45,574 --> 00:19:47,464
It gets you out of envisioning a reality.
385
00:19:47,915 --> 00:19:50,514
What will this look like when it's easy?
386
00:19:50,904 --> 00:19:53,484
Is it puts your brain into imagining.
387
00:19:53,484 --> 00:19:58,370
And everything that you see
around you that you experienced
388
00:19:58,370 --> 00:20:02,139
in the world was created twice,
once in here and once out there.
389
00:20:02,309 --> 00:20:08,339
If you give yourself the prompt to
imagine, to envision, to picture, to
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00:20:08,369 --> 00:20:14,820
feel into what will this look like
when it's easy, it changes, it makes
391
00:20:14,869 --> 00:20:19,629
things possible or possible, right?
392
00:20:19,689 --> 00:20:21,840
Invite possibility by envisioning.
393
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:21,989
Tesse: I love it.
394
00:20:21,990 --> 00:20:28,229
David: But that's the reason PTSD is so
nightmarish and difficult to work with.
395
00:20:28,250 --> 00:20:33,540
Because your brain doesn't differentiate
between imagining it in the future,
396
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:39,370
experiencing it and reliving it in the
past, so your brain doesn't differentiate.
397
00:20:39,730 --> 00:20:44,939
They did some cool research with
professional pianists and, you know, put
398
00:20:44,940 --> 00:20:50,020
a little functional MRI in their head
and have them play a piano and you see
399
00:20:50,020 --> 00:20:53,955
what part of the brain lights up and
then take away the piano, put a piece
400
00:20:53,955 --> 00:20:57,895
of paper with a keyboard printed on it
in front of them, and then have them
401
00:20:57,905 --> 00:21:00,084
play the keyboard, the printed keyboard.
402
00:21:00,354 --> 00:21:02,574
The exact same portions
of the brain light up.
403
00:21:03,344 --> 00:21:05,504
They're not hearing anything
except the ticking of their finger.
404
00:21:06,084 --> 00:21:08,934
So what's fascinating is our
brain doesn't differentiate.
405
00:21:08,964 --> 00:21:11,524
And yes, they've done it without
anything in front of them, except
406
00:21:11,524 --> 00:21:12,814
playing the piano in the air.
407
00:21:13,524 --> 00:21:15,624
Same thing, brain lights up.
408
00:21:15,664 --> 00:21:17,434
Your brain doesn't distinguish.
409
00:21:17,434 --> 00:21:21,604
So what will this look like when
it's easy invites you into creation?
410
00:21:22,164 --> 00:21:26,034
Paula: That's so great because my
last question to you was going to
411
00:21:26,034 --> 00:21:30,784
be what is your key message for our
listeners, but you have said it.
412
00:21:31,384 --> 00:21:32,735
I think we're going to end on that.
413
00:21:32,745 --> 00:21:37,734
What would it look like when it is easy?
414
00:21:38,314 --> 00:21:41,474
I think that's something that we all need
to think about because we wake up every
415
00:21:41,474 --> 00:21:44,454
day and we have the whole day ahead of
us and we can say, oh gosh, it's going
416
00:21:44,454 --> 00:21:46,905
to be the worst or, just what you said.
417
00:21:47,455 --> 00:21:48,825
David thank you for that.
418
00:21:49,185 --> 00:21:50,065
I love it.
419
00:21:50,625 --> 00:21:51,284
I love it.
420
00:21:51,625 --> 00:21:52,254
Wow.
421
00:21:52,325 --> 00:21:57,284
And again, to our listeners, we
want to say, you see, your precious
422
00:21:57,284 --> 00:21:59,674
stories and your lives matter.
423
00:22:00,315 --> 00:22:04,794
We ask them to share it with us
and others, just like David did.
424
00:22:05,294 --> 00:22:08,574
Because we believe in supporting,
encouraging, and nurturing
425
00:22:08,634 --> 00:22:11,784
others, especially when they
know that they're not alone.
426
00:22:12,424 --> 00:22:18,764
And so, again, I say to my listeners,
please head over to "Apple Podcasts",
427
00:22:19,134 --> 00:22:25,884
"Spotify" and now that Google Podcasts is
moving over to YouTube Music, please head
428
00:22:25,884 --> 00:22:29,024
over there, and please click subscribe.
429
00:22:29,504 --> 00:22:34,254
And if you find "TesseLeads" helpful,
please let us know in your reviews.
430
00:22:34,724 --> 00:22:38,474
If you have any questions or topics you'd
like us to cover, you can send us a note.
431
00:22:39,134 --> 00:22:43,745
And if you'd like to be a guest on
our show, "TesseLeads", head over to
432
00:22:43,745 --> 00:22:46,524
the website, which is "www.tesseleads.
433
00:22:48,404 --> 00:22:50,060
com" and apply.
434
00:22:50,620 --> 00:22:54,010
Again, I'm going to say that
key message is the bomb.
435
00:22:54,100 --> 00:22:54,910
Thank you, David.
436
00:22:54,940 --> 00:22:55,680
Tesse: Thank you.
437
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,879
David, you have illuminated
our world again.
438
00:22:59,479 --> 00:23:00,879
Thank you so much.
439
00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:04,040
David: Thanks for having me.
00:00:01,310 --> 00:00:04,490
Paula: Welcome to "TesseLeads"
with your host, "Tesse Akpeki,
2
00:00:04,930 --> 00:00:07,100
and co host, me, Paula Okonneh.
3
00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:12,570
"TesseLeads" is a safe, sensitive,
and supportive place and space to
4
00:00:12,570 --> 00:00:18,669
share, hear, and tell all your stories
and experiences, and we mean all.
5
00:00:19,310 --> 00:00:24,630
We get super curious about the
dilemma that shape our future and
6
00:00:24,630 --> 00:00:27,250
the journeys that we are all on.
7
00:00:28,130 --> 00:00:31,785
Today's topic is on vulnerability.
8
00:00:31,965 --> 00:00:37,505
And it's called "vulnerability and my
journey towards connecting with myself".
9
00:00:38,964 --> 00:00:42,295
Our guest is David Taylor Klaus.
10
00:00:42,785 --> 00:00:48,565
And normally I would read his bio, but
now today he's going to introduce himself.
11
00:00:48,565 --> 00:00:51,434
So welcome to "TesseLeads"
and floor is yours.
12
00:00:52,455 --> 00:00:52,865
David: Great to be here.
13
00:00:52,865 --> 00:00:53,694
Thank you.
14
00:00:53,695 --> 00:00:55,225
You know, I love chatting with you two.
15
00:00:56,020 --> 00:00:56,920
Paula: We love you too.
16
00:00:57,580 --> 00:00:58,370
David: Introduction.
17
00:00:58,910 --> 00:01:03,149
You know, I'm always fascinated by the
opportunity to introduce myself because
18
00:01:03,619 --> 00:01:08,150
so often when I'm introduced, you get
to hear the whole boring biography.
19
00:01:08,635 --> 00:01:13,415
And what I do professionally is fine,
but that's just a fraction of who I am.
20
00:01:13,785 --> 00:01:17,815
I spend a lot of my time in the
world ranting against the lie that
21
00:01:17,815 --> 00:01:22,424
is work life balance and teaching
people life rhythm instead.
22
00:01:22,784 --> 00:01:26,195
And I do that because I spend a
really long time getting it wrong
23
00:01:26,344 --> 00:01:30,865
and being over calibrated and over
performing and over exhausted.
24
00:01:31,315 --> 00:01:35,155
Yes, I've been an entrepreneur for 30
odd years, but the things I'm proudest
25
00:01:35,175 --> 00:01:41,265
of, the things that define me more,
I've been married to a woman I've known
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since I was 11 for 32 years as of next
week, we have three kids that we're
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all active parts of each other's lives.
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You know, the love is hard.
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I mean, love is easy.
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That's the stuff that's
baked in like is hard.
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And we all like each other.
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And got a fabulous daughter in law and
some adorable, significant others that
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are dating the ones that aren't married.
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So they're all part of our world.
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And I define myself by my impact wake
with friends, with family, with community.
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And yeah, as a professional coach for
entrepreneurs and executives, I'm really
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attentive to what my impact wake is there.
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That's just a portion of my life, right?
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So who am I?
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At the core, I'm a leader
and I have a lot of fun.
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So how's that for
capturing who I am, Paula?
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Paula: I absolutely love it.
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And I'm sure if I asked you to repeat
that again, we'll get a different
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version, but just as impactful.
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David: My wife, a bunch of years
ago, went to New York to film some
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videos for a health care company.
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And they got the room all set up,
all the production people, and at
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one point the director says, oh, that
was great, but one of the lights was
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messed up, can you do that again?
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And Elaine said, No,
you asked me a question.
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I answered it.
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I couldn't possibly answer
it the same way again.
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And what she and I talked about after
that is that, you know, when she's
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completely present in the moment, she's
able to answer it and bring everything
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that's part of who she is to that.
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But she's not conscious of what she's
saying as she's saying it because she's
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totally present to the moment and worked
a really long time to be able to do that.
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To be so present to the moment
and so clear about what my
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message is and what my purpose is.
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When I come from there, that's when,
in fact, I believe it's the only time
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when I have the impact I want to have.
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So, thank you for that opportunity.
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Tesse: That's so powerful, David.
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It's really, really powerful.
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You know, when I, when Paula and
I talked about what we'll ask you
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today, connecting with yourself.
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You don't know I'm going to ask that
question, but I said to Paula that from
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the first moment I met you virtually,
you seem to me like somebody who is
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connected with yourself, warts and all.
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And I was so curious about that
level of connection to yourself.
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And that curiosity is leading
me to say a bit more about that.
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What footsteps have helped you
to be in this place of present
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in the moment, present to others?
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David: So probably an answer you're not
expecting, but 40 years of navigating
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depression has been critical to that.
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You know, so much of what happens when
you have depression is perseverating over
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the past or freaking out about the future.
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You cannot imagine the futures
I've invented and imagined
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that never happened, right?
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And sitting with depression, you
learn to be present to the moment,
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to what's real and what's there.
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And it's also a brilliant way to
see what your impact is on others.
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Because you can't help but see
what your impact is in the moment
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when you're present to the moment.
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As opposed to, oh my God,
what were they thinking?
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What are they thinking now?
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All the things that we do when
we recast what's happened.
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There's a fabulous author who
recently passed away, whose
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name now I can't remember.
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But the quote is, "you'll, you'll
find you worry less about what
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other people think about you when
you realize how seldom they do".
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We're all so wrapped up living our own
lives and figuring out our own stuff
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that we're very rarely thinking about
other people as much as other people
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think they're being thought about.
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And so as a way to engage with
other people, let's look at
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it in terms of a marriage.
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You can't engage with your partner
who they used to be and be in
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service of the relationship.
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You can't be in relationship with the
person you hope they'll become and
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be in service of the relationship.
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Because the only time the relationship
is happening is right now.
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And when we're interacting with the
person that we're in relationship with, as
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anybody other than who I am in the moment,
who they are in the moment, you're not
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in relationship, you're in a tug of war.
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And no, I'm not a relationship coach,
and yet, when you look at how you
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are being in the world, wow, isn't
that the ultimate form of leadership?
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Being aware of how you're being in
the world and how you want to be?
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So I think that has a lot to do
with my connection with myself.
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And by the way, being connected with
myself, warts and all, the warts
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aren't hard to be in connection with.
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I mean, I think a lot of us are really
clear on the warts about ourselves.
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The work is getting clear
about the shiny bits, right?
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The positive elements and really
owning everything in between.
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That's what's important about being
connected to yourself is the full range.
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Tesse: I love it.
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The shiny bits, the bits in between.
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I really, really love it.
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You know, you talk about, and no, I'm
not surprised about the depression piece.
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I'm not surprised about that.
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Because whenever we connect with you,
there's something about your understanding
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that comes across and it's like it
bridges things, it's a bridging thing,
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and that comes from somewhere very deep,
that is healing, that is uncovering.
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You can't actually make that up.
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You can't really make that up.
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You know, that is something
that exists in you.
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So along that journey, were there some
things that were laid bare for you that
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you kind of, as you began to do the
shiny bits in between till now, were
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there some kind of high, you know, I
wouldn't say, I want to say highlights.
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But it's things that accord
for you that you said, yeah,
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aha, for you in that journey.
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David: Yeah, my physical
presence and the impact of it.
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I'm not a large human being.
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I think before I started the
inevitable age gifted shrinking.
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I was about five, just
shy of five foot 11.
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Sorry, I don't know to translate that.
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And.
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I never realized how imposing
that can be for people that are
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smaller, or if I get too close.
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And I tend to be very energetic and
effusive, and in person my energy can
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be very large, much larger than I am.
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And it was a very hard lesson for me to
learn that sometimes my excitement and
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enthusiasm can come across threatening.
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And whenever the gap between
one's intended impact and one's
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actual impact is drawn into
stark reveal, wow, that can suck.
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It's way past painful.
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It's a rude awakening.
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And learning to be attentive
about my unintended impact and
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even the unspoken impact that's
that changed my leadership a lot.
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And it wasn't about recoiling,
it was about paying attention
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to my leadership wake.
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And for me that language
has always been important.
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You know, whether you've ever been
in a boat or not, the important thing
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is as a boat or any, or any airship
moves through space, it has a wake that
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trails behind it, a wake of impact.
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The air and the water are disturbed
and it impacts other things around it.
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And leaders are just like that, right?
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As you move through a space, I had a
client where one of the partners lived
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several hours away, seven hours away.
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And he would drive in for, you know,
late morning meetings on Monday
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and go back home Thursday evening.
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And oh my God, if he had a bad drive
on that Monday, oh my, as he walked
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to the office, his energy, that
irritation and agitation was permeating.
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It was setting the weather.
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And as he walked through, you could
watch people in the office shrink.
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And he wondered why Mondays
were hell in the office.
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Right.
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He was totally oblivious to his impact,
because he would stomp through there,
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get into his office, collect himself,
and then come back out, and everybody's
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shattered waiting for the explosion.
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And he's all happy, now
he's at his cup of coffee.
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He's ready to be human and
nobody wants to be near him.
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And he starts to cave in
because he feels excluded.
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Doesn't feel like he belong.
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And he's complaining to
me and my own company.
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I've been here 25 years.
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I'm one of the founders and
I don't feel like I belong.
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So I think as people become aware
of their impact wake, personally,
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professionally, you name it.
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I think that's a critical piece to
learning how to have the impact in the
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world you want to have in the world by
unpacking the impact you are having.
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Tesse: Wow.
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Impact wake.
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Consciousness.
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Paula: That's the word that's
jumping out for me," Impact Wake".
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Yeah.
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David, you have a lot of gifts.
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Every time I speak with
you, I leave, I've learned.
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I tell myself, let me go back track.
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I tell myself every day when I wake
up, I have to learn something new.
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But every time that we do have a
conversation with you, I learned
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some things, not just something new.
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And Impact wake makes me think
of, you got a lot of gifts.
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What would you say your greatest gift is?
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You're not boasting.
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You know, just now you talked about
when you discovered that you had an
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impact, sometimes that wasn't positive.
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You said you didn't recoil, you
just became more aware of it.
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So this is kind of like the opposite.
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What would you say your greatest gift is?
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You're not boasting, but
you're just aware of it.
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David: Yeah.
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And thanks for asking.
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I think it has to do with my
ability to read energy and connect.
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And by the way, yes, some of it's
instinct, some of it was necessary
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as a mechanism for navigating the
world that I came through, and some
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of it is hard earned and practiced.
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But it's the ability to read the
energy of the space and respond to it.
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Even if it's not at this point,
conscious, because it makes a difference.
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I've walked into room as the, I don't
know what number presenter I was, but
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the last person had just spent 90 minutes
in the room talking with people about
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their experiences with sexual assault.
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And I walk into the room and oh my
God, you know, my conversation that
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I was going to be having in the
room was going to be in a totally
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different direction and very energetic.
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And I walk into the room
and I just felt the weight.
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If I'd come in and talked about what
I had planned to talk about, it would
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have been not just tone deaf, it would
have been emotionally an assault.
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And so I had to change everything
about the way I approached the room.
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How I moved onto the stage.
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How I greeted people.
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How I started the conversation.
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What we talked about,
it changed everything.
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And so my 90 minutes was nothing that had
been written and prepared and practiced.
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And I think it's important
to be able to read the room,
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the space, the relationship.
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Now trust me, I am not a hundred
percent and I am reminded of that by
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my children and my spouse every day.
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When I misread what's there, and you
know, we've had conversations about,
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you make a mess, you clean it up, you
know, you don't sweep it under the rug.
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Yeah, it's learning how
to read what's there.
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It's something that I do
exceptionally well, and I think it's
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one of the reasons I have been as
successful as I've been as a coach.
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Paula: I agree.
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That is a great gift.
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Tesse?
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Tesse: Yeah.
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I mean, you know, it's not often
that I'm quiet, but it's true.
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I've just kind of taken that in
the greatest gift to read the room.
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You know, I'm thinking particularly of
something that I heard this week, which
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was that when we are traumatized and
sometimes we're not even aware of the
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impact of the trauma, then we can miscue.
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We can mishear.
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We can miscue.
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We can misinterpret.
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We can go into a place of such negativity.
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Back to the example you're giving that
the world becomes a hard place for us
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and others because of the miscuing.
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And why I was silent was that I
was listening to what you were
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saying, David, and how you read
the room and adjust accordingly.
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And this question, in terms of your
journey towards connecting with yourself,
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is how can others, any kind of tips
you have for them being able to connect
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with, you know, themselves in a way that
that misreading is not as impactful.
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I mean, I know for myself and Paula you
know this, I could misread like anything
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and what I'm misreading, what I'm feeling,
it's real for me, but actually it's
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not there the way that I think it is.
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And it's a real getting better is
being able to see and feel more of what
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really is there, rather than what is
imagined because of the trauma you've
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been through, or I've been through.
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Does that make any sense?
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That question?
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David: And it does.
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It's the Responding to what's
really there is a sticky point.
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Because you and I have a conversation.
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There are three versions
of that conversation.
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There's what was actually said,
there's how I experienced it, and
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there's how you experienced it.
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And it's very rare that
any pair of them align.
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And so I think it's important that
that, it's almost like we all have
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our own personal sense of reality.
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So part of the connection piece is
grace, and part of it is, I don't
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think how to say it, because we can't
change or impact what happens to us.
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The only control we have
is how we respond to it.
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And when we respond to what occurs
by labeling it and having an
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emotional response to that and saying
that that's exactly what happened
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and only what happened and I am
absolutely right, that's what it is.
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Wow, you're stuck, right?
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Because then there are no
other ways to look at it.
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There are no other options to see it.
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In any experience, if we can say,
oh, well, what else could that mean?
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What else could that mean?
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And what else in yourself
like a five year old does?
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Ooh, what else?
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What else?
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Beyond reason, come up with as many
different ways to see it as possible.
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It allows you to get curious about what's
the filter through which I'm seeing it?
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What's the lens I'm seeing this through?
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And whether it's something that comes
from trauma or anything in the way
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we've been educated or socialized or
acculturated, doesn't matter that's
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the lens you use to collect evidence.
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So the lenses I use to see the
world color the evidence that I
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collect, and the evidence that I
collect determines my experience.
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So if we change our lens,
we change our lives.
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This is the chance to say,
oh, how else can I see this?
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00:16:21,874 --> 00:16:24,555
What if he just had a crappy drive
and is storming through the office
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00:16:24,574 --> 00:16:27,344
because that guy cut him off right
before he got in the parking lot?
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00:16:27,945 --> 00:16:29,955
What if this has nothing to do with me?
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00:16:30,415 --> 00:16:31,605
What if it's just like last week?
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Right?
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00:16:32,725 --> 00:16:34,215
I wonder what's going on with him.
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I wonder what's really going on.
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I wonder what's going on with me.
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00:16:38,444 --> 00:16:39,444
Who did that remind me of?
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00:16:39,454 --> 00:16:40,584
There's so many things.
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00:16:40,935 --> 00:16:45,154
It's like put on that hat and become
the fascinated anthropologist and
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00:16:45,154 --> 00:16:46,864
say, ooh, what's going on there?
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00:16:47,605 --> 00:16:48,354
What else could it be?
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00:16:48,814 --> 00:16:49,614
What else could it be?
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00:16:49,984 --> 00:16:54,564
When you get out of the clutter of
being sure and right about something
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00:16:55,309 --> 00:16:58,379
you open up an amazing amount of
possibility, and that's where you
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can really meet yourself, right?
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It's not the things that we know.
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00:17:01,930 --> 00:17:03,439
It's not the thing,
what did Mark Twain say?
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00:17:03,439 --> 00:17:06,029
It's not the things that don't,
It's not the things that we don't
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00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:07,279
know that gets us in trouble.
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00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,250
It's the things we know
for sure that we know.
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Tesse: Wow.
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David: That's where we get stuck.
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Tesse: I love it.
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I really do.
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00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:18,650
And the question that is coming
into my mind is what you, the David
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sitting, looking at Paula and I,
you know, seeing you, what would
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00:17:22,979 --> 00:17:27,284
you say to the younger David, you
know, knowing what you know now.
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00:17:29,705 --> 00:17:30,554
David: Lighten up.
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Stop taking everything to them.
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Seriously.
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00:17:34,304 --> 00:17:34,985
I mean, seriously.
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And by the way, the younger
David could be 30 or 15 or 10.
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Doesn't matter.
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Maybe 40.
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00:17:42,215 --> 00:17:44,955
We, I took everything so seriously.
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I continually get better at that.
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It's, nothing is life
and death except dying.
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Nothing.
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00:17:52,745 --> 00:17:56,705
Yet we make up so much that is
life and death, that is severe,
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that is the end of the world.
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00:17:58,505 --> 00:18:00,245
No, it's not.
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00:18:01,444 --> 00:18:03,955
I mean, the planet's going to
survive us anyway, so none of us are
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00:18:03,955 --> 00:18:05,014
going to see the end of the world.
339
00:18:05,435 --> 00:18:07,324
We just make up that it's
the end of our world.
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00:18:07,424 --> 00:18:08,174
And it's not.
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00:18:08,725 --> 00:18:13,865
Every one of us, here in the room
and watching, has experienced things
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00:18:13,865 --> 00:18:15,525
that we never thought we'd get over.
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00:18:16,105 --> 00:18:19,275
We've taken on things that we thought
were impossible and achieved them.
344
00:18:19,885 --> 00:18:22,445
We've had things forced upon
us that we never wanted to do
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00:18:22,475 --> 00:18:23,505
and never thought we could.
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00:18:23,505 --> 00:18:24,185
And guess what?
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00:18:24,625 --> 00:18:25,164
We did.
348
00:18:26,025 --> 00:18:27,195
It happens all the time.
349
00:18:27,495 --> 00:18:28,625
We make stuff up.
350
00:18:30,264 --> 00:18:31,814
What if we made up the opposite?
351
00:18:32,494 --> 00:18:35,604
It's delusional to think
you can't do things.
352
00:18:35,984 --> 00:18:38,054
It's as delusional as
it is to think you can.
353
00:18:38,534 --> 00:18:41,005
Well, why not pick the one that serves?
354
00:18:41,495 --> 00:18:44,364
If I believe everything I look at
is impossible or insurmountable,
355
00:18:44,364 --> 00:18:47,014
or if it fails, it's the end
of the world, guess what?
356
00:18:47,354 --> 00:18:47,754
It is.
357
00:18:48,105 --> 00:18:51,565
But if I look at it is, oh, okay, I
bombed that one, I learned one way
358
00:18:51,565 --> 00:18:53,114
not to do it, what if I try that?
359
00:18:53,115 --> 00:18:56,674
If you believe that you can, you have
a much better chance of being able to.
360
00:18:57,024 --> 00:18:58,684
If you believe you
can't, oh, you're right.
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00:18:59,084 --> 00:19:00,565
Tesse: Yeah, heh heh.
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00:19:00,565 --> 00:19:03,250
David: I had a client, It
was just such a simple thing.
363
00:19:03,500 --> 00:19:07,190
A client was about to have to move
and they said, this move is going
364
00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:08,380
to be hard and it's going to suck.
365
00:19:08,610 --> 00:19:11,880
I said, yes, it will be because
you just decided it will be.
366
00:19:12,069 --> 00:19:14,820
What if you started off with, what
will this look like when it's easy?
367
00:19:15,089 --> 00:19:17,139
What a different mindset, what
a different way to look at it.
368
00:19:17,329 --> 00:19:18,870
What will this look like when it's easy?
369
00:19:19,170 --> 00:19:20,429
Tesse: I love that question.
370
00:19:20,909 --> 00:19:22,330
David: I wish I'd done that
when I was a lot younger.
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00:19:22,330 --> 00:19:23,320
Tesse: I love that question.
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00:19:23,330 --> 00:19:25,440
What would it look like if it's easy?
373
00:19:25,679 --> 00:19:28,400
Paula, what do you think of that question?
374
00:19:28,460 --> 00:19:30,330
Paula: I think that's like a key message.
375
00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:34,074
What would it look like if it's easy?
376
00:19:34,074 --> 00:19:35,495
I mean, we hear it in different ways.
377
00:19:35,585 --> 00:19:36,074
Tesse: Or when?
378
00:19:36,165 --> 00:19:36,784
When it's easy?
379
00:19:37,045 --> 00:19:37,335
Yeah.
380
00:19:37,435 --> 00:19:37,864
Paula: Yeah.
381
00:19:37,945 --> 00:19:38,705
What would it look like?
382
00:19:38,705 --> 00:19:41,985
David: It is because, you know, I heard
Tim Ferriss say, what if it were easy?
383
00:19:41,985 --> 00:19:45,465
And what I don't like
about that is the if.
384
00:19:45,574 --> 00:19:47,464
It gets you out of envisioning a reality.
385
00:19:47,915 --> 00:19:50,514
What will this look like when it's easy?
386
00:19:50,904 --> 00:19:53,484
Is it puts your brain into imagining.
387
00:19:53,484 --> 00:19:58,370
And everything that you see
around you that you experienced
388
00:19:58,370 --> 00:20:02,139
in the world was created twice,
once in here and once out there.
389
00:20:02,309 --> 00:20:08,339
If you give yourself the prompt to
imagine, to envision, to picture, to
390
00:20:08,369 --> 00:20:14,820
feel into what will this look like
when it's easy, it changes, it makes
391
00:20:14,869 --> 00:20:19,629
things possible or possible, right?
392
00:20:19,689 --> 00:20:21,840
Invite possibility by envisioning.
393
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:21,989
Tesse: I love it.
394
00:20:21,990 --> 00:20:28,229
David: But that's the reason PTSD is so
nightmarish and difficult to work with.
395
00:20:28,250 --> 00:20:33,540
Because your brain doesn't differentiate
between imagining it in the future,
396
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:39,370
experiencing it and reliving it in the
past, so your brain doesn't differentiate.
397
00:20:39,730 --> 00:20:44,939
They did some cool research with
professional pianists and, you know, put
398
00:20:44,940 --> 00:20:50,020
a little functional MRI in their head
and have them play a piano and you see
399
00:20:50,020 --> 00:20:53,955
what part of the brain lights up and
then take away the piano, put a piece
400
00:20:53,955 --> 00:20:57,895
of paper with a keyboard printed on it
in front of them, and then have them
401
00:20:57,905 --> 00:21:00,084
play the keyboard, the printed keyboard.
402
00:21:00,354 --> 00:21:02,574
The exact same portions
of the brain light up.
403
00:21:03,344 --> 00:21:05,504
They're not hearing anything
except the ticking of their finger.
404
00:21:06,084 --> 00:21:08,934
So what's fascinating is our
brain doesn't differentiate.
405
00:21:08,964 --> 00:21:11,524
And yes, they've done it without
anything in front of them, except
406
00:21:11,524 --> 00:21:12,814
playing the piano in the air.
407
00:21:13,524 --> 00:21:15,624
Same thing, brain lights up.
408
00:21:15,664 --> 00:21:17,434
Your brain doesn't distinguish.
409
00:21:17,434 --> 00:21:21,604
So what will this look like when
it's easy invites you into creation?
410
00:21:22,164 --> 00:21:26,034
Paula: That's so great because my
last question to you was going to
411
00:21:26,034 --> 00:21:30,784
be what is your key message for our
listeners, but you have said it.
412
00:21:31,384 --> 00:21:32,735
I think we're going to end on that.
413
00:21:32,745 --> 00:21:37,734
What would it look like when it is easy?
414
00:21:38,314 --> 00:21:41,474
I think that's something that we all need
to think about because we wake up every
415
00:21:41,474 --> 00:21:44,454
day and we have the whole day ahead of
us and we can say, oh gosh, it's going
416
00:21:44,454 --> 00:21:46,905
to be the worst or, just what you said.
417
00:21:47,455 --> 00:21:48,825
David thank you for that.
418
00:21:49,185 --> 00:21:50,065
I love it.
419
00:21:50,625 --> 00:21:51,284
I love it.
420
00:21:51,625 --> 00:21:52,254
Wow.
421
00:21:52,325 --> 00:21:57,284
And again, to our listeners, we
want to say, you see, your precious
422
00:21:57,284 --> 00:21:59,674
stories and your lives matter.
423
00:22:00,315 --> 00:22:04,794
We ask them to share it with us
and others, just like David did.
424
00:22:05,294 --> 00:22:08,574
Because we believe in supporting,
encouraging, and nurturing
425
00:22:08,634 --> 00:22:11,784
others, especially when they
know that they're not alone.
426
00:22:12,424 --> 00:22:18,764
And so, again, I say to my listeners,
please head over to "Apple Podcasts",
427
00:22:19,134 --> 00:22:25,884
"Spotify" and now that Google Podcasts is
moving over to YouTube Music, please head
428
00:22:25,884 --> 00:22:29,024
over there, and please click subscribe.
429
00:22:29,504 --> 00:22:34,254
And if you find "TesseLeads" helpful,
please let us know in your reviews.
430
00:22:34,724 --> 00:22:38,474
If you have any questions or topics you'd
like us to cover, you can send us a note.
431
00:22:39,134 --> 00:22:43,745
And if you'd like to be a guest on
our show, "TesseLeads", head over to
432
00:22:43,745 --> 00:22:46,524
the website, which is "www.tesseleads.
433
00:22:48,404 --> 00:22:50,060
com" and apply.
434
00:22:50,620 --> 00:22:54,010
Again, I'm going to say that
key message is the bomb.
435
00:22:54,100 --> 00:22:54,910
Thank you, David.
436
00:22:54,940 --> 00:22:55,680
Tesse: Thank you.
437
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,879
David, you have illuminated
our world again.
438
00:22:59,479 --> 00:23:00,879
Thank you so much.
439
00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:04,040
David: Thanks for having me.
