Swing Thoughts 303 for October 31, 2025

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You get a ship. All right, everybody calmed down. Everybody
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just calmed down. Everything, good morning, it's swing thoughts. Then
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that's a coach, Tim, that's a good guy. I'm golf
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spiritual leader. Of course. Just before we hit record, you
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asked what you said I was resplendent. I was just
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wearing a I've got a golf vest on and I
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got a long sleeve shirt underneath it. And then it
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was the word you use, resplendent. Is that what you said? Resplendent? Yes,
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And I said, well, the reason I put this on
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is that earlier this morning I spilt food on the
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shirt I had underneath this, and then I put this
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on to cover it up for the Humble and Fred
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show because we do our show live on Facebook. And
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then I went upstairs to get some of the in
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between the shows, and I spilled more food on this thing.
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So I just didn't feel like putting on a third
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layer so that I didn't have food during the YouTube
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version of our show.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, Well, it's good for you to be conscious of
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your sartorial splendor and to share how you know that
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you are humble. You're willing to let us know your
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difficulties of shepherding food from whatever vessel it is into
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your mouth.
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Well, I don't know. I think a lot of guys
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are like this, but I let me turn this on. Okay,
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there we go. I eat too fast, I know I do.
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And watching the Blue Jays the last couple of nights,
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you know, I'm sitting there just going through like my
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big snack. When I'm watching sports, especially like baseball or something.
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I eat a lot of sunflower seeds, of.
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Course, of course, just right, yep, just like a players
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at Yeah.
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Well, I don't know if you ever because it's like
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it's like it's a common like a nervous energy. But
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I go from some flower seeds. Then I had popcorn.
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Then I had a piece of toast. Later and I
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was wearing this other shirt that I have on underneath this,
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and I got up this morning and I was going
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to wear it for the Humble and Fred show. I thought,
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you know, it's no big deal. It's just Fred and
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Dan and some people that watch us. And then I
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looked at myself in the mirror and it's just everything.
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It was like a food roar shack test. Everything I
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ate last night by inning, you know, there's the spits,
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here's some cheese, here's some of the crunchy bar that
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I had to tim. Oh my god, So I got
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to ask you man, Yes, sir, I mean the game
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Game three and three, which did go as we as
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we hoped.
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I I stayed with it till one thirty in the morning,
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and then I just finally gave up. I needed to
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have some kind of a day yesterday. So I know
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there's people who stayed up to three in the frick.
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Two fifty is when it ended. It was eighteen innings, insane,
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So how long did you hang in? Here's the thing,
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you know. You know the kids have this phrase fomo
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fear of missing out. Yeah, so I'm watching the game
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and I get to the tenth inning and it's about
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ten after twelve, and I usually get up at five
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thirty to do the Humble in French show, and yeah,
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you know, we started seven thirty. So I thought I
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got to get some sleep. And as I was so,
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I sort of went, okay, Blue Jays, I've given you
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all I can. And I stopped at about twelve fifteen,
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thinking I was going to miss out. I kept otherwise
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I was going to sleep back I thought, what if,
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what if I miss out on like the greatest play
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that's ever happened in baseball? But then I was actually
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felt good that it went eighteen innings and all I
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missed was an eighteen eighteenth inning home run.
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Anyway, Oh yeah, absolutely, And our our our good friend.
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Marcus has joined. Our guest is here. All right. I'm
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going to hit admit ye let them in, and then
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I'll hit the big intro and men, yeah, there he is, guys,
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is hi Marcus. I'm going to listen. Great, we got
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to I have a big intro for you. Don't start.
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I've got the whole thing. It's very this is very professional.
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You just got to be patient, young man. Just be
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patient because we've got a big intro and it's going
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to be like, oh my gosh, this is like a
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real show. Oh my goodness. All right, let me get
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the music here, all right, our guest today, Tim is
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one of the most insightful and down to earth golf
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coaches I've ever had the pleasure of meeting. He has
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built a strong reputation for blending modern golf science with
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a refreshingly simple way of explaining the game. Whether it's
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understanding movement patterns, managing your swing tendencies, or learning how
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to make practice actually translate. He has a gift for
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turning complicated ideas into something every golfer can use. I
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got on a plane and flew to London to work
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with him for three days, and almost no one in
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my life thought that was weird.
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And everyone should know that he lives in Toronto, Canada. Yes,
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I mean a big long flight across water and everything.
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It wasn't just like from Manchester to work.
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I learned a lot about myself and the one thing
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I learned was most people already thought I was a
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bit of a golf nerd and kind of crazy. Now though,
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now you're going to find out why. Welcome to our program.
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Marcus Bell, Hello sir, how are you my friend?
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Hi gents, Wow, what an intro. It's an absolute pleasure.
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Very excited to be here and to see you again, Howard.
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And to see you Bus.
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It was fantastic. Nice to meet you, Tim, And yeah,
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it was a brilliant three days, wasn't It was amazing
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having you as part of the group, the kind of
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for you to experience what GRF Golf is all about,
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because it's a real three days gives an gives us
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a real opportunity for an immersion, because that's what it
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really needs. It needs a complete reinvention of how you
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perceive the game, how you perceive yourself, really, how you
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in terms of adapting to the game. So it's I'm
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sure this will get into all this.
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Yeah, well, I'll tell you. I mean, I've never I've
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I've been to a golf school one other time in
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my life, which is a friend of ours, my buddy
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tour striker and Marty Chuck. But it was different, and
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I didn't really know what to expect. And I've been
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trying to explain to people like Tim and other friends
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of mine. You know, I think everyone wants to know, like, Okay,
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what did you learn? Like was it worth it? You know?
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What kind of things? And everyone wants to know. And
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this is where we'll sort of as a jumping off
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point Tim and Marcus is everyone wants to know what
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Like golfers are always looking for a little tip, like
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what did you learn? What can I what little thing
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cans the secret? What's the secret exactly? And I've been
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hesitant to try and explain it to people. And you're
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all going to find out why, because it's not as
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easily explained as you know, put your elbow here, and
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this is what happens on your backswing. And part of
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the reason is, Marcus, this character you're all about to meet,
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has a master's in sports biomechanics, including skill acquisition, as
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well as an interest in sports engineering and sports science
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as it relates to motion in general. I've been trying
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to explain you, Marcus by saying, this guy, he's got
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a background in golf. He was a high level player
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to begin with, but at some point your interest in
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how the body moves sort of took over your career
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path and helped you develop the system that is GRF
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ground Reaction Force. So maybe we'll start there, and rather
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than get into your bio people can look you up,
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let's talk a little bit about what you're interested in
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is different and how it's different in terms of of
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the regular world of golf. I know that's a lot
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by way of introducing you again, but I think I
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think people need to know your background at least that
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much to get a sense of why you're different and
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how the coaching you do is so different.
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Yeah, I mean, try and wrap it up in a nutshell. Really,
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that's I was really fortunate to be exposed to a
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lot of high level players when I first had a
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turn pro, being surrounded by elite players from an early age. Really,
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I was kind of fortunate to be in that kind
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of environment. Quickly realized where my kind of playing performance
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lie in terms of maybe future in the game. But
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I was always very passionate about coaching. I've got very
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passionate coaches as bosses. They were coaching nowadays, major winners,
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they were coaching back in the day, Howard sorry Portege Harrington,
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Darren Clark, Paul McGinley, Lee Westwood, people like this. So
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really fortunate to be in that environment and really absorbing
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that from a very green nineteen years old kind of
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turned pro just but immersed in that high performance environment
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and quite a different environment as well. It was they
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were already kind of mavericks in their own right, these
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coaches who were who doing it different, So I was
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it kind of I suppose that kind of helped shape
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you and pave your paves the way forward in terms
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of how you see how you see what you're looking for,
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because that's something that's been kind of really at the
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heart of my coaching is I'm always I'm always asking why,
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and I'm searching, constantly, constantly searching, Like we all are
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as golfers, we're all searching. I'm not searching for the
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quick coaching tip, like a swing tip. I'm trying to
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search for I want to go deeper and deeper. I
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was coaching. I was coaching in Germany for five years.
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Very fortunate. The guy I was working with he'd been
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trained by Pete Cowen. I'd brought this kind of background
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with me. We've got a very special academy we developed.
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But nevertheless, after about five years, I was still asking myself, Yeah,
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there's got to be more to it than this. This
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can't This is not coaching, This is not this is
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not the end of it.
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It's kind of Marcus.
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If I could interject, were you reacting like this new
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way of doing things? Was that kind of understanding that
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instruction at one point was put your right elbow here,
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do this with your left knee, hit this position. Very
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technical oriented in terms of like do this do that?
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Is that kind of what you're reacting against, and you
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saw a new way?
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Yeah, I was. I think we it was. It was
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I was just I was doing the same thing day
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and day out. I was teaching if you like, Yeah,
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I was prescribing, I was I was instructing. I don't
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know what I call myself these days. A coach of
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a coach is of there's really no word for it.
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I'm a facilitator, if you like, because I'm just creative.
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I'm just creating a tacit learning environment where people are
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free to explore and it's a journey of self discovery.
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And there's my question is do you enjoy moving as
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much as you enjoy the goal shot? Is the movement
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as enjoyable or more enjoyable? Can you get more enjoyment
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out of actually moving than actually the goal shot that
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you hit in because the two are very interconnected, but
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the movement creates the goal shot. So are you truly
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enjoying the goal shot if you're not enjoying the movement too?
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Is it? Kind of so people have become so obsessed
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with technique and not Look, I'm talking twenty five years ago.
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I was in that world, looking at it through a
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slightly different lens, but nevertheless indoctrinate to maybe a strong word,
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but definitely influenced by pretty much anecdotal literature, although the
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science was there from the seventies, eighties, ninety And that's
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what really changed my life is when I went to
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university because I came back from Germany and I dived
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straight into an MSc in sports bio mechanics, and I
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was very fortunate that I just happened, by stroke of luck,
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to be living very close to an institute that is
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at the forefront of sports engineering and sports science, which
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at the time had mavericks in the skill acquisition world
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who were pioneers and as most institutes, as most kind
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of academic institutes, so they don't really kind of publicize
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themselves market themselves there. But they had England teams Justin
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Rose was going there. I mean in England boxers. They've
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got boxers like Kelbrook going there. Were a very high
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performance environment. They designed ping putters in the sports engineering,
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they designed Premier league footballs, they designed the team site,
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the cycle, the bikes, the cycles for the team GB
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and the Chris Hoydays In the twenty twelve Olympics it
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was the skeleton Bob. When it went for it was
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like they've got Olympic. It was an Olympic level facility,
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and I was so fortunate that I was there. From
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a golfing aspect, so often it's not what you're learning,
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it's the people that you mike, that you're networking with
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and how you learn. So it was it was it
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opened a whole world to me. The library for me
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was a whole new world. I went into there and
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I went into the University library and there was golf
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science and I was like, what the hell's this. I've
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just learned golf from a FRO A PJ manual and
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no disrespect, I mean, but I was like, well, there's
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a whole different world here and I've just suddenly been
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exposed to it. And d plane was around in nineteen
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ninety four, so Jorgensen in the physics of golf was
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he coined dee deep playing and so this science has
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been there way before even TrackMan brought it into the
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into the into the domain and force plates, pressure plates,
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three D. There was there was, there was kinesiology, there
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was I mean it was. It was basically just a
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playground for me. And then of course I start to
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search the people who are writing the papers, so I
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then start to source them. I mean, Dr Kwan was
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doing a lot of stuff back then in South Korea.
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Yeah, for context for people who aren't as big as
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nerds as we are. Doctor Kwan is uh. He's now
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based out of I believe he's in Dallas, Texas. He's
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another science of movement guy, and not too I don't
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I don't want to cut you off, but I do
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want to start to bring the So just what Marcus
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is giving us is just a sort of a bit
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of a background of what you were interested in, everything
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from neuroscience to osteopathy and how and in physiotherapy and
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gata analysis and all this stuff. And I know a
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lot of our listeners are going, Okay, well that's that
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seems impressive. But let's get to the the the science
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of movement as it relates to golf and how and
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how movement because what you said, I don't know if
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everyone caught it, like enjoying the movement versus versus the
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golf shot, because a lot of instructors, the most traditional
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golf instruction is, and it's been part of the legend
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of golf, is the golf ball will tell you everything.
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But in fact that's not true because you can manipulate
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the golf ball to make a pleasing shot, but you
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may not be moving correctly and you're not really learning
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how to move correctly to produce the golf shot. So
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maybe let's get to the point where if not Again,
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I don't want to rush you along, but we do
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have I want to talk about about how movement and
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what you've discovered about how movement influences golf swings, and
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how you said to us several times in the three
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days we spent together, guys, this thing we're doing, this
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exercise we're doing isn't your golf swing, but it's inside
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your golf swing.
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Yeah, just to kind of go back to reverse engineer
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all this fact to essentially how we interact with the ground.
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So force creates motion, but how we have to move
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to great force? So so there are already forces at
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play that we're creating to use ground reaction force. But
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the whole thing about ground reaction force and GRF goal
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is you are you are reacting, You are reacting. It's okay,
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the ground is not reacting to you. You are reacting
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to the ground. So it says ground reaction force, but
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you're the reaction. So the first thing is how are
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you reacting? Do you recognize how you react, and so
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how do we use our environment. So, for example, as
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a golf coach, I want to see the real mover.
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It's it's I want to see the mover in the person.
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When I see you as a golfer, I'm not seeing you.
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I'm seeing a version of you. I'm seeing you almost
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act out a script. I'm seeing a manipulator of movement.
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I'm seeing I'm seeing some concepts, some concept behind movement.
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I'm seeing a very deliberately actioned movement. I'm seeing very,
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very almost overload of conscious thought, which is very fragile.
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Once that's challenged, once you move into once you introduce
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levels of variability, you start it starts to destabilize and
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you start to lose a sense of where you are. Orientation,
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the appropriate sception gets seriously challenged. But we're not challenging that.
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In practice you've seen we don't train like we intend
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to play. That's the problem. We play goal. I mean,
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we talk a lot about the discipline. There's as much
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about mindset as there is the physical skill skill set
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in a golf school or a lesson with me, because
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the mindset drives a skill set, and so and your
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body is able to operate on a very high level.
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You're able to process many things at once, many bits
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of information, but still function. Like driving your car, for example,
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you could be thinking of lots of things driving your car.
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You are able to function. So movement is it's reactive,
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it's self organizing, and it's unconditional. You are not applying
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conditions to how you're moving in every fun of your life.
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If I throw you a ball, I see the real mover.
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I see the mover in you. If I kick you
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a ball, you have to be you'd have to be
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a picture in baseball. You don't have to be a hitter.
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You don't have to be a world class kind of golfer.
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In England it's cricket you don't have to. I mean,
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USA cricket now is doing really well. You don't have
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to be Elliot level movers. But I see the real mover.
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So now sorry.
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Canada though, by the way, but dude, I really don't
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want so, I really really, I say, don't like as
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a golf coach, the I find the it's the perception
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of what coaching is.
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It's the perception of being a learner of golf. It's
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already there's conditions associated with it. There's attachments, there's connotation
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to how I'm going to learn, and there's also stigma
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attached to movement and things like I've got to move
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like this. We've been conditioned to believe as a certain
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way of moving. I mean, if you if you get
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a group of coaches in a room and you put
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a golf swing on a on a screen, you're going
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to get some similar stuff getting thrown up, seep, shallow,
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strong face inside outside, and and most golfers, I mean,
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it's one of the only sports where you can be
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just a recreational player, very kind of just maybe once
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a week. You are kind of a twenty eight handicapper,
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eighteen handicapper, Yet you are analyzing yourself like a talko totally,
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totally yeah, and you are and you are comparing yourself
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to the world's greatest and you're seeing the one percent
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of the one percent of the one percent form every week.
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And the problem with the problem as well in golf
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is you are comparing yourself to the professional aggregate result.
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You compare yourself to par so it's and then there's
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a there's a detachment, there's a there's a dissonance between
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actually learning the game and actually playing the game and
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driving rangers. They're amazing. And now with launch, the ad
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of launch monitors on the range, it's absolutely fantastic. But
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it comes it comes heavily loaded with again very influential
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kind of it's very, very, very very The environment is
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very influencing in how you use this technology. So I
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think the thing about myself and Howard'll I'm sure we'll
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attest to this too, is that we only use the
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pressure plate kind of once in the in the three days,
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but we used it in a very in a in
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a very.
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See it's an investigation a much more organic, a much
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more organic way. And so I'm going to jump in
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here to me.
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Yeah, So, man, Marcus, You've got a lot to share.
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Man, I love it. This hard power isn't going to
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be enough, I promise you.
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Guys, I'm trying to I'm trying tout as much.
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There's no stories necessary, because we'll have you back, sir,
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We definitely will have you back. But in this wonderful
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stuff that you're laying out here, I wanted to just
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drill down a bit for what I think people could
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relate to and I'll just share one thing quickly about
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my coaching. I've done putting clinics for a number of years,
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and I do this one thing or go like, okay,
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now I just want you to enjoy your stroke.
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Yeah.
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People will look at me weird, like what am I
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supposed to do anything? No, enjoy your stroke, and it's
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like this weirdest thing for them. And then they come
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back and then they have like I never knew I
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did this or I experienced something, so it was very cool.
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But what I'm getting at is that when you talked
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about they act out a script. To me, that is
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just a classic get in your own way in terms
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of people have the sense of that I have to
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do this, I have to start my downswing whatever you
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want to call it, with my lower body, and to me,
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that just interrupts this flow the natural movement. Is that
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kind of what you're getting at in terms of hey, folks,
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you don't need to be super conscious about doing all
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this stuff the right way one tim.
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I mean, the most complex movement we make is walking,
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and no one knows how they do it. And we
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didn't start by walking. We don't learn to walk, We
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actually roll crawl. When some people get up earlier on
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this end to their feet. Not that that's a good
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thing or a bad thing, it's but generally we find
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our way and the brain connects through movement as well,
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So through fetal development, the brain is connecting through movement
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and through the birth and canal. We're taking serious. We're
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going through some serious movements which are connecting the brain
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reflex wise so that it's actually paving the way for
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how we move a lot a lot of I mean,
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I mean, I'm not going to I'm not going to
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go into neuro development. You can almost predict movement.
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But you've been doing this show for ten years. Ten
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years we've been doing the show, and ladies and gentlemen,
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the very first mention of the birth canal. Thank you
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very much. Body, when I told you he was interesting,
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I wasn't fugging around this guy.
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We have so we test for a barrant reflexes as well.
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So the GRF system that a lot of people look,
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it's not a smoke it's not a smoke screen. The
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GRF system, my training system has many underlying layers to
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it which as a coach, I can start to see
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reflexive behavior. I can start to see how I mean,
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strange things happen when you want to when you intend
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to move the body a certain way, other parts of
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the body. It's an interactive, completely integrated system. So you're
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never working on one aspect alone. And if ever you
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are focusing on an aspect of the golf swing, you're
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looking at the result of something else, so you're not
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looking at that that moment in time that you're looking
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at on that screen is the products of things that
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are happening way before you actually see that event.
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Which is another thing. Another thing you've said several times
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when we were together, but I want you to sort
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of reiterate it now or reiterate it now, which is
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we we tend as golfers to get a tip or
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have a thing and then it's almost like, okay, now,
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now if I just do this thing, one thing the
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same way for the rest of my golf life, everything
439
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will be great. But as you know, and that's why
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golf tips and little bits, that's why they come and go,
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so that they're so transitory, because you know, as my
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buddy Paul said, everything will work once. But your system
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or the GFR system, and the research that you've done
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is different because it's not just one moment in time,
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as you were about to say, it's not just if
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you do this certain thing then all will be well.
447
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It's an understanding of movement in general and how learning
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to move and at adjudicating yourself based on movement, not
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on shots. That really is kind of a way to
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open up the as you also a way of exploring
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your own golf swing as opposed to being told do
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this and everything will be fine.
453
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Exactly. I mean, it's not it's not a god it
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lost it, got it lost it situation. That scenario doesn't exist.
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You always it's you always possess it. Most people, I mean,
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no one is maximizing their potential even that even who
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you see, even the top top, top top players and
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they we then it's it's it's not it's it's not relatable.
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In fact, we can't even relate to each other on
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on a level of feeling. And the golf swings are feeling.
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It's over in the one on our seconds. It's it's
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happening at high speed. So you do not want to
463
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be learning this thing consciously because you're not going to
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be firing it. Conscous it's not going to be fire,
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the firing patterns, the rate of recruitment. It's too it's
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it's subconscious. You're going to be aware of something. That's
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a different question. What are you aware of now? How
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attuned are you to your movement to enable.
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You to.
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Apply that level of awareness to adapt because it's about adaptation,
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skill adaptation, and you don't know what you possess to adapt.
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So I go through like a four stage process. The
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first process as of coaches, because even the player doesn't
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know what they're capable of. Me as a coach, I'm
475
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certainly not aware. So the body gives you all the
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answers if you ask it the right questions. So you've
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got to disrupt the system and then order starts to
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emerge dependent on the task constraints of the environment. So
479
00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:32.720
you start to manipulate the environment. And then you start
480
00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:35.240
to see emergent behavior, and that can be in the
481
00:26:35.240 --> 00:26:36.359
form of a golf swing, it could be in the
482
00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:38.880
form of anything. So and then you can then you
483
00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:40.960
start to see how the person cues. You start to
484
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:43.920
see how they're responding. Now you start to learn, you
485
00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:45.720
start to see the plasticity in the system and what
486
00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:47.240
you can start to work with and how you can
487
00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:49.000
start to shape that and help allow them to it.
488
00:26:49.960 --> 00:26:53.599
I'm not prescribing movement. I'm allowing them to form this themselves,
489
00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:58.519
and the performance is born out of the form. So
490
00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:03.599
they can start to recognize, they can simulate and almost
491
00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:06.319
visualize what is going to take place from that simulation
492
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:08.319
before they even do it, without even moving, they can
493
00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:11.119
probably play the swing out in their mind. They can
494
00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:13.960
then can they then? Then can can they recreate? Can
495
00:27:13.960 --> 00:27:17.279
they recal movement? So you're challenging the system because on
496
00:27:17.319 --> 00:27:20.559
the golf course you're gonna be you're gonna be challenged
497
00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:23.279
with a lot more than this. We're practicing too stable
498
00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:27.039
and environment and so the four the four stage process
499
00:27:27.039 --> 00:27:31.839
I go through is first of all self realization on
500
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:35.599
a on an internal level. So kind of yeah, do
501
00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:40.119
you recognize, I mean we are language loads, like language
502
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:44.440
loads are thinking, so and it's so open to each
503
00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:48.440
each individual's interpretation. So I mean, I get you, sorry.
504
00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:51.680
Howard, language loads are thinking is great.
505
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:56.440
So so we are. If you think about there was
506
00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:00.359
four or five people in the group, five people on
507
00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:04.119
the first day of profiling, we're going through a protocol.
508
00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:07.759
Everybody gets the same exercise as a as a standard
509
00:28:07.759 --> 00:28:11.079
protocol to look at measure movement. But everybody does it different.
510
00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:13.839
Everybody does it different. Yet they've just heard the same
511
00:28:13.880 --> 00:28:17.079
words they've seen me demonstrate. Yet I'll get five different
512
00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:20.960
versions none a right, none or wrong. It's just their interpretation.
513
00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:26.920
That's them expressing themselves in response to the information they've
514
00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:29.240
just been given and their intention I'm seeing. I'm seeing
515
00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:32.599
how they react, they move relative to their intention, and
516
00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:37.319
often it's you can see there's a big disconnect. So
517
00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:41.319
there needs to be to start with, there needs to
518
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:45.240
be a level of a high, a higher. We need
519
00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:48.240
to really attune ourselves to what is actually taking place.
520
00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:51.640
What otherwise this this notion of feeling real which everyone
521
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:55.599
talks about. Of course that exists, but what we have
522
00:28:55.640 --> 00:28:57.839
to do is we have to attune ourselves to this
523
00:28:58.279 --> 00:29:02.079
very noisy, very very variable environment and the body. I'm
524
00:29:02.079 --> 00:29:05.559
talking about the body, the variance of movement with the body.
525
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:09.079
So we go through this process of self realization. Then
526
00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:12.039
we learn to self actuate. So how do we actually
527
00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:15.519
how do we what do we recognize? Remember, your body
528
00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:17.920
doesn't know your body does not know that your hand
529
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:20.480
is a hand. It doesn't know your brain doesn't. It
530
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:22.319
doesn't know. We've called it a hand, we've called it
531
00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:25.799
a foot, we've called it the context its concept. So
532
00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:29.480
movement is so conceptually driven. But we've got to strip
533
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:33.440
ourselves of this. We've got to recontextualize how we perceive this.
534
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:35.240
Okay, So I'm going to use that as my jumping
535
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:39.400
off point, jumping end point, if you will. So you know,
536
00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:41.480
we've been doing this show for ten years, over three
537
00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:44.440
hundred episodes, and largely people think of it as the
538
00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:48.160
mental game that we talk about. So people say, if
539
00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:50.680
I think the right thoughts, I'll play well. But I
540
00:29:50.680 --> 00:29:53.720
think what you're getting at in many ways is that
541
00:29:54.119 --> 00:29:58.880
if we experience our body, if we feel what's happening,
542
00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:03.240
then we can into the language that helps us understand it.
543
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:04.680
Is that kind of what you're driving it.
544
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:07.640
One hundred percent. Yeah, you create your own literacy, so
545
00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:13.279
but you've got to understand the vocabulary first. So you explore,
546
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:16.039
you create the what we talk about the toolkit. What
547
00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:19.720
is your toolkit? And it's through one hundred percent him,
548
00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:26.279
it's experiential learning. It's a it's all about creating tactile
549
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:29.319
feedback loops. So this is this is about sensory input
550
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:33.880
creates motor output. Your body can be processing many many things,
551
00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:36.640
but it functions. You're walking down the street, you're reacting
552
00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:38.640
to your environment. Yeah, your mind can wander off, you
553
00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:41.759
can you can be doing multiple things, but you're able
554
00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:48.000
to move and operate subconsciously. And the golf swing is
555
00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:49.960
the same. So it's kind of well, how do you
556
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:54.359
train this system? And that's exactly the applications and the
557
00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:57.559
philosophy and the methodology that I use. And you're absolutely right.
558
00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:01.119
Most people think it's mind body motion. In my mind,
559
00:31:01.480 --> 00:31:05.680
it's motion body mind because as we as I talked
560
00:31:05.680 --> 00:31:11.119
about earlier in the early development process, when we when
561
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:17.680
we were first before we enter the world in the movement, Yeah,
562
00:31:17.960 --> 00:31:20.759
movement connects the brain. And I don't want to go
563
00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:26.240
into this because you can predict movement in the first
564
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:29.680
I mean, you can start movement as your movement maps
565
00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:32.039
are in the first three years of your life. I
566
00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:35.000
mean they are, they are, they are pretty much they're
567
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:38.839
getting hardwired in terms of in terms of your ability
568
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:43.720
to interact with the world. And of course this is
569
00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:47.519
all you can as we do, because again the GRF
570
00:31:47.559 --> 00:31:50.960
system has bilateral integration in there so we're starting to
571
00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:55.759
we're starting to create the connections. And any time in
572
00:31:55.799 --> 00:31:58.039
life you can create these connections, and then suddenly, as
573
00:31:58.039 --> 00:32:00.559
a performer you can take it. It's on a whole
574
00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:04.480
new level. And then from the self actualization. Actually, so
575
00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:07.960
once you go from that self actualization, you go into
576
00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:13.079
a state of self regulation. Now you can start to
577
00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:16.920
actually become more task constraint focused in terms of extir
578
00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:19.400
with sharp with the intention of what you're going to
579
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:22.960
do with this movement potential you possess. And then when
580
00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:25.440
you start to play around through the training processors and
581
00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:28.359
the protocols, you can start to self optimize. And the
582
00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:31.319
last stage of self optimization, you don't have to go
583
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:35.680
through this conscious associative state. You don't have to learn
584
00:32:35.720 --> 00:32:40.640
that way learn. You can learn in an elaborate states,
585
00:32:40.839 --> 00:32:42.680
but you can learn in an elaborate state. You don't
586
00:32:42.680 --> 00:32:44.279
have to go it's not a driving lesson this thing.
587
00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:45.559
People aren't learning to drive a car.
588
00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:50.240
But that's not the way that most instruction is. I'm sorry,
589
00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:51.559
because we've got a lot to get in. The way
590
00:32:51.559 --> 00:32:55.200
that most instruction is presented, though, is a very conscious
591
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:58.279
you tell me, I try and do what you're telling me,
592
00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:03.200
and then we both decide based on my interpretation of
593
00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:05.720
what you've told me and how my body's supposed to react,
594
00:33:05.960 --> 00:33:11.240
then we decide did I or did I not complete
595
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:15.720
the task correctly? We'll say right, And as I'm just
596
00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:17.799
reading something that I'm going to read to something I
597
00:33:17.799 --> 00:33:21.200
wrote you after I came home, I said, somewhere around
598
00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:24.640
day two, I realized I've been looking in all the
599
00:33:24.680 --> 00:33:28.759
wrong places. I never understood the swing in the manner
600
00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:31.480
that you presented it, and I'm aware that I'm only
601
00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:34.440
scratching the surface now. I say that because listeners of
602
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:39.000
this show will know that nobody could have tried harder
603
00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:44.400
than me. It's like if I couldn't find it, nobody's
604
00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:47.000
find itating it, because you know, I've made this my
605
00:33:47.079 --> 00:33:49.599
life's work. As my older brother says, I have a
606
00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:52.319
PhD in this stuff, and I was. And I'm not
607
00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:56.279
saying this as an advocate of your system, although I
608
00:33:56.319 --> 00:33:59.240
would say anybody listening and wants to spend the winter
609
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:02.039
learning about the swing in a way that you're not
610
00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:07.319
familiar with, I'd recommend watching this character on YouTube, because,
611
00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:09.800
as you can see, has no trouble putting sentences together
612
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:14.039
that being so when I said that to you, I
613
00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:16.000
said that at lunch on the second day, I said,
614
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:17.880
you know, I just kind of leaned over to you
615
00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:21.039
and I said, uh, man, I've just I just realized
616
00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:25.840
I've been searching for the answers here. I really have.
617
00:34:25.960 --> 00:34:28.920
I've given it a good college try, but I've been
618
00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:31.159
searching in the wrong areas. And do you think that
619
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:34.360
now I'm going to ask the question that a lot
620
00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:36.840
of golfers do that a lot of golfers are searching
621
00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:37.800
in the wrong spots.
622
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:42.920
I think a lot of golfers are trying to please
623
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:47.119
their coach. I think most golfers are trying to They're
624
00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:51.800
trying to. I think they're they're asking for confirmation from
625
00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:56.960
the coach. They've that the empower the empowerment of of
626
00:34:56.960 --> 00:35:00.800
of of the responsibility of the of their own learning,
627
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:04.400
of their own game has been removed, and this makes
628
00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:06.719
a more fragile character in the in the in the
629
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:11.159
in the arena. Have got absolutely so what you have.
630
00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:14.039
What happens is we've created this more dependent environment where
631
00:35:14.199 --> 00:35:17.840
the coach and we're binding into a belief system. You're you're,
632
00:35:18.039 --> 00:35:23.079
you're almost and that's what we do generally when we're
633
00:35:23.079 --> 00:35:26.000
going from coach to coach to coach, we are we
634
00:35:26.079 --> 00:35:32.559
are completely uh shifting our belief system.
635
00:35:33.159 --> 00:35:36.440
Give you power away, you're addicating, you're abdicating your power
636
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:38.760
to coaches exactly.
637
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:41.840
And most golf coaches are contradictory. When you go from
638
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:43.440
one to one, they can be talking about the same thing.
639
00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:46.079
But and there is and of course it's all it's
640
00:35:46.119 --> 00:35:48.280
all good, well natured. They're all trying to help in
641
00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:51.400
their own way, and and and and very successful. And
642
00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:53.159
I'm not saying there's any right or wrong way. By
643
00:35:53.159 --> 00:35:54.679
the way, I'm not saying my way is the right way.
644
00:35:54.679 --> 00:35:56.719
I'm just saying it's a way. There's lots of ways
645
00:35:56.719 --> 00:35:58.079
to get results. And I'm sure and there's lots of
646
00:35:58.159 --> 00:36:01.360
very successful, good coaches. But look at it from this
647
00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:06.559
kind of alternative viewpoint, from a non linear very. This
648
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:11.119
is a dynamical systems approach where we are allowing the
649
00:36:12.199 --> 00:36:18.679
person that individual to through the journey of self discovery,
650
00:36:20.119 --> 00:36:23.440
find their golf swing, find there and and and because
651
00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:27.519
they're joining the dots themselves, it's it's but it sticks
652
00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:30.000
because they are doing the work. They are not repeat
653
00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:32.400
This is not this is not writing lines at a
654
00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:37.840
desk at schooling detention, this is not right. I will
655
00:36:37.880 --> 00:36:39.920
not take the club on the inside one hundred times.
656
00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:45.239
This is this is, this is the golf swings are feeling,
657
00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:50.000
and you have to explore all opportunities or you have
658
00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:53.719
to you have to your freedom of expression. This is
659
00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:57.039
not most Most golf coaching focuses on a reductionist approach.
660
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:00.840
Almost we're not in pursuit, We're we're all is in avoidance.
661
00:37:01.159 --> 00:37:02.840
Can't go here, can't go there? Why is that on
662
00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:04.360
my coaches? I can't do this because I do this
663
00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:06.679
and this, and I'm sure it's all good information, it's right,
664
00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:11.679
But is that really empowering that learner to take control
665
00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:14.280
of their own destiny in terms of going on the
666
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:18.519
golf course, reacting to the affordances of the environment, recognizing
667
00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:22.719
their their their ability, their ability to adapt, and allow
668
00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:27.239
themselves to just freewheel. But the problem is that ability
669
00:37:27.880 --> 00:37:30.280
is suppressed because of the way we train and the
670
00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:35.000
way we think. When we're training intuitive, the intuition's lost
671
00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:38.800
because because the experience just has never it's never been there.
672
00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:40.760
So it's like if you take it, if you take
673
00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:43.079
a golf swing and you take you. For example, you
674
00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:46.400
were talking earlier, Howard about taking the club back. What's
675
00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:49.719
moving that golf club? Okay? So whereas if you throw
676
00:37:49.719 --> 00:37:52.719
a ball, okay, you're never aware of where you're taking
677
00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:55.519
your hand. You're not trying to position it in space.
678
00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:58.840
You're allowing your body to respond. And so that response,
679
00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:03.239
that that that active response, which is what happens when
680
00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:07.039
you maybe you might feel everyone's experienced a perfect goal
681
00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:09.400
shop right, and you don't know how you did it,
682
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:13.559
and it was like that reactive that state that you
683
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:15.480
were in is what we need to train. We need
684
00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:17.679
to train with the dynamics.
685
00:38:18.159 --> 00:38:23.599
If that's so counterintuitive, because our society, we are conditioned
686
00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:26.000
to think, and I think it comes from the school
687
00:38:26.079 --> 00:38:29.159
system in so many ways that we're brought up, is that.
688
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:34.239
I don't know enough. I need an authority to tell
689
00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:35.440
me what the fuck to do.
690
00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:39.880
And in fact, most golfers think that they're broken because
691
00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:42.639
they can't do it the right way. So they give
692
00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:45.159
up their power, like we said, and we'll like give
693
00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:47.960
it over to a teacher who we expect to tell
694
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:51.480
us to do the right thing. Or especially now online,
695
00:38:52.039 --> 00:38:56.599
we go to this bottomless ocean of instruction and I.
696
00:38:56.639 --> 00:38:58.119
Go, if I do what.
697
00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:02.000
The imminent guru tells me to do, I will become
698
00:39:02.119 --> 00:39:06.000
enlightened and get salvation. And it never happens because what
699
00:39:06.039 --> 00:39:09.079
you're talking about is counterintuitive.
700
00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:09.760
To the way we're brought up.
701
00:39:10.039 --> 00:39:12.960
And so I'll just try to sum this up by saying,
702
00:39:14.519 --> 00:39:17.039
and everyone knows who's listening to this podcast for an
703
00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:19.280
every years, that I'm a big fan of Fred Shoemaker
704
00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:22.639
and Fred Shoemaker, I think it's saying someone that you're saying,
705
00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:25.920
it's not the brilliant things the coach says, it's the
706
00:39:26.039 --> 00:39:31.159
brilliant things that the student says and experience inside inside.
707
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:34.800
You know, we're both Fred's Shoemaker friends and had have
708
00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:37.400
had him on the show. And I'll just pick up
709
00:39:37.400 --> 00:39:39.599
on what Tim's saying is, you know, as somebody that's
710
00:39:39.639 --> 00:39:43.679
had great instructors and been lucky enough to be excuse me,
711
00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:46.719
in the presence of some you know, fairly well known teachers,
712
00:39:47.559 --> 00:39:51.280
I can tell you from having experienced the GRF you know, school,
713
00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:54.639
that I was telling somebody one day, They said, what
714
00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:56.079
did you do? I said, well, we didn't touch a
715
00:39:56.079 --> 00:40:01.199
golf club till way after lunch because we were exploring
716
00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:04.119
other other patterns of movement, as you say, with that
717
00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:06.960
are within the golf swing. But it wasn't just do
718
00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:10.519
this check, do that check and then this you'll produce
719
00:40:10.599 --> 00:40:13.599
some kind of result. It's it is. It's funny you
720
00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:15.119
brought that up to him, because I was thinking about
721
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:17.039
that when I was with you, that there's a very
722
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:20.440
Shoemaker vibe about what your instruction's like.
723
00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:23.400
Yeah. I spent a couple of days with Fred in
724
00:40:23.440 --> 00:40:28.800
the past and he loved what I was doing. In fact,
725
00:40:28.840 --> 00:40:30.840
he got me to do a bit of presenting in
726
00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:34.199
the two days with what I do and automatic Alway,
727
00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:39.000
Timothy Goalway, I spent some time with Timothy. Tim's a legend. Yeah,
728
00:40:39.039 --> 00:40:43.679
of course in terms absolutely amazing people.
729
00:40:45.119 --> 00:40:49.239
When you said anecdotal literature, were you referring to Galway
730
00:40:49.480 --> 00:40:53.199
and Shoemaker in terms of their books on coaching in
731
00:40:53.239 --> 00:40:54.039
your game, et cetera.
732
00:40:55.599 --> 00:40:58.679
Now, I was talking more about the kind of for example,
733
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:03.400
and I don't want to tread into dangerous waters because.
734
00:41:03.840 --> 00:41:04.880
Oh we enjoy that.
735
00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:07.440
Yeah, I'm very.
736
00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:11.119
We respect nobody. I just want to say something though,
737
00:41:11.239 --> 00:41:13.719
they're getting a little bit of a little bit of echo,
738
00:41:14.119 --> 00:41:16.159
because I think you've got you're listening to us on
739
00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:19.840
your computer speaker. Yes, yes, yeah, I just turned down
740
00:41:19.840 --> 00:41:23.480
a tiny little bit and listen. We've got about I'm
741
00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:25.639
going to say within then we got about five to
742
00:41:25.719 --> 00:41:34.559
six minutes left. Really up. No, no, No, the book.
743
00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:36.760
Is when a book is written golf my way, That's
744
00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:40.840
what it is. And we're still we're in are We've
745
00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:45.639
got all this sports science, we've got, we've we've we've
746
00:41:45.639 --> 00:41:49.920
got advancement in technology, Yet we still and rightly so,
747
00:41:49.960 --> 00:41:53.719
there were amazing performers, but we're still working to books
748
00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:56.960
from like nineteen fifty seven Hogan Fundamentals, and that was
749
00:41:57.000 --> 00:41:59.000
his version of events of what he does, and even
750
00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:02.000
he says after a afterwards that it wasn't actually when
751
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:05.159
the book's not actually aligned with what he actually did,
752
00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:07.440
what was actually happening, what he felt was there was
753
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:12.159
a there was a there's a difference, and so there's
754
00:42:12.199 --> 00:42:15.639
it's an interpretation of events from that individual. And but
755
00:42:15.719 --> 00:42:20.679
in golf, then this kind of this obviously, this this
756
00:42:20.679 --> 00:42:24.559
this evolves and accumulates and it becomes yeah, it becomes truths,
757
00:42:24.559 --> 00:42:28.880
and there's a you can there's a there's almost a yeah,
758
00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:31.119
dogma that that that kind of takes place that people
759
00:42:31.159 --> 00:42:34.920
are starting to adhere to. And I think I think
760
00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:39.239
with you pick up a golf club, and straight away
761
00:42:39.639 --> 00:42:44.480
there's because of the way we've been conditioned through whatever
762
00:42:44.719 --> 00:42:48.880
whatever medium, there's there's conditions applied, and there's a connotation
763
00:42:49.039 --> 00:42:50.840
associated with picking a golf club of how you're going
764
00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:53.440
to move with it. What what what? What you can do,
765
00:42:53.480 --> 00:42:56.880
what you can't do. But if you remove that first
766
00:42:57.199 --> 00:43:04.280
and start to explore your bodies capability and rewrite the
767
00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:07.800
whole body schema first, because the golf club is essentially
768
00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:11.800
a prosthetic limb, so it becomes an extension of your anatomy.
769
00:43:11.800 --> 00:43:14.440
The golf club becomes your hand. Okay, it's an extension
770
00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:16.519
of your arm. You don't think about where your hand is.
771
00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:18.039
You don't need to know where it is. You can
772
00:43:18.079 --> 00:43:19.840
put your hand behind your head and touch it with
773
00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:21.159
the other hand and you don't need to look or
774
00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:23.840
check anything. You can be like your body has a
775
00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:26.840
it has that sixth sense. You've got to trust it
776
00:43:26.920 --> 00:43:28.039
and it's teaching it.
777
00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:29.440
And so.
778
00:43:31.519 --> 00:43:34.960
Once you start to recognize that behavior and you're able
779
00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:39.199
to essentially let go. Everyone talks about laying going golf.
780
00:43:39.239 --> 00:43:42.159
What are you laying go of Okay, the mental side
781
00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:43.920
of things, you can let go, but if you're slicing
782
00:43:43.960 --> 00:43:45.960
it and you laying go is not going to probably
783
00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:49.199
change thing. It's about skill adaptation. How do you let
784
00:43:49.239 --> 00:43:52.599
your body explore And it's got to be an enjoyable
785
00:43:52.639 --> 00:43:56.840
process because it's emotionally driven. Movement is emotionally driven, and
786
00:43:56.920 --> 00:44:00.719
so it's a coach has to create that very kind
787
00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:07.000
of engaging, a forum, challenging learning environment. And essentially what
788
00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:09.159
starts to happen is, as you experienced, how do you
789
00:44:09.159 --> 00:44:10.880
start to recognize how you can move your body in
790
00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:14.920
a very different way, how you perceive the movement differently,
791
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:19.760
the sensory feedback loops, what you're what you're experiencing is different.
792
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:22.880
How you que your movement changes, The affordance has change
793
00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:24.639
of what you're able to do and how you're able
794
00:44:24.679 --> 00:44:27.920
to use that golf club and a repertoire develops. And
795
00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:30.800
the repertoire is he said, that's you expressing yourself and
796
00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:33.559
this is this is growing and growing and growing, and
797
00:44:33.639 --> 00:44:34.760
this is what we need to do. This is what
798
00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:38.239
we do in life. Okay, we we it's we adapt
799
00:44:38.280 --> 00:44:40.639
to our environment and we've got to We've got to
800
00:44:40.719 --> 00:44:44.239
challenge ourselves with in that environment. And so with the
801
00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:47.440
GRF system, for example, my training system, it's challenging. It's
802
00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:49.920
challenging your movement, it's challenging your perception of your movement,
803
00:44:50.199 --> 00:44:57.199
and through that spirals a heightened level of achievement to
804
00:44:56.880 --> 00:45:00.519
to to movement, and therefore awareness takes on a it
805
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:02.079
takes on a different level completely.
806
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:05.639
I want to echo what Tim said. I you know,
807
00:45:05.960 --> 00:45:08.280
now that's sort of the main part of our golf
808
00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:11.559
season is done, and you know, we're featuring a few
809
00:45:11.599 --> 00:45:15.880
different guests than we normally do, and I think we'd
810
00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:18.119
love to have you back because there's still more to explore.
811
00:45:18.119 --> 00:45:19.639
I don't think we really even got into some of
812
00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:22.000
the way that you train, but it's just a couple
813
00:45:22.039 --> 00:45:23.760
of quick things at the end. And I'm not asking
814
00:45:23.840 --> 00:45:27.599
for this, isn't I don't need you to give me
815
00:45:27.639 --> 00:45:30.559
a compliment, but I am just curious from the first
816
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:33.280
from the first day that you saw me swing. That
817
00:45:33.320 --> 00:45:36.119
first morning, which was the only time that day. We
818
00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:39.719
started around nine am and all of us, the coaches
819
00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:43.440
watched us hit balls, and that was the last time
820
00:45:43.480 --> 00:45:46.119
we hit a ball, probably for about fifteen minutes and
821
00:45:46.119 --> 00:45:48.920
we didn't hit another golf ball till much much later
822
00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:52.639
in the day. Did you notice or could you see
823
00:45:53.719 --> 00:45:57.360
differences in my movement from that first day of the
824
00:45:57.400 --> 00:45:57.880
third day.
825
00:45:58.880 --> 00:46:02.840
Yeah, yeah, what I see is but I'm looking at
826
00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:07.320
and this is what starts to emerge in terms of
827
00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:09.679
your own awareness as well. You're looking at what appeared
828
00:46:09.679 --> 00:46:11.719
to be kind of the cub like micro moves, or
829
00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:14.960
you're talking about very small features of a movement, which
830
00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:18.039
are actually very very big movements, very influential on how
831
00:46:18.039 --> 00:46:23.039
you move. But you start to see how the body
832
00:46:23.119 --> 00:46:26.880
is responding and reacting, and you're starting to see a
833
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:31.400
different level of fluidity in your form start to take place.
834
00:46:31.599 --> 00:46:34.039
When when you first arrived, I just saw a person
835
00:46:34.079 --> 00:46:37.159
who's dying to break free. Okay, I saw someone who's
836
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:40.599
taken on a lot of information, very very highest level player,
837
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:44.079
highly skilled, but very good at manipulating very goodly. And
838
00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:47.000
you even said this yourself. So there's an intellect there
839
00:46:47.039 --> 00:46:50.199
that is driving. It's very very consciously aware of what's
840
00:46:50.199 --> 00:46:53.360
taking place and able because of the hand eye coordination,
841
00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:56.119
the skill over you possess, you're able to manipulate at
842
00:46:56.199 --> 00:46:59.239
high speed. But it doesn't feel authentic. It's not an
843
00:46:59.320 --> 00:47:02.320
organic process that you're undertaking. It's not throwing a ball,
844
00:47:02.360 --> 00:47:05.440
it's not kicking the ball. It is washing my hand
845
00:47:05.480 --> 00:47:08.159
move whilst I am throwing this ball. So now I've
846
00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:09.920
got to move my head quicker, and that's going to
847
00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:12.559
throw off the and there's disruption to the balance. The disruption,
848
00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:16.800
so the body is not really performing naturally, the kinetic
849
00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:20.320
chain isn't really firing in its most functional way, and
850
00:47:20.360 --> 00:47:24.000
so you are having to compensate and and a very
851
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:28.119
good compensator, I mean and and and and there's therefore
852
00:47:28.119 --> 00:47:30.519
there's a level of tension in the system that has
853
00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:32.800
to that you have to operate with to manipulate and
854
00:47:32.840 --> 00:47:36.320
maintain some level of control. But it's it's that as
855
00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:37.800
soon as you challenge, as soon as you want to
856
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:39.559
do something different, like once you when you want to
857
00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:40.800
go for more power, when you want to go for
858
00:47:41.079 --> 00:47:43.480
that always shows shows up. When people pick up the
859
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:46.800
driver and you it's it shows so much. And when
860
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:50.559
they go for speed, then you start to see the true,
861
00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:53.280
the true whereas where is the driver of this motion.
862
00:47:53.480 --> 00:47:55.119
But one of the things that that came up for
863
00:47:55.239 --> 00:47:57.119
me for sure was Eisen I say this, I've been
864
00:47:57.159 --> 00:47:59.599
able to intellectually describe a golf swing. Tim and I
865
00:47:59.599 --> 00:48:02.239
could have had three hundred shows on golf swings in
866
00:48:02.239 --> 00:48:05.519
general because we're nerds. But I said to you, I've
867
00:48:05.639 --> 00:48:09.119
always felt that there was something interrupting the natural flow
868
00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:12.480
of my swing because I was just guys just have
869
00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:14.639
educated hands. As our buddy Mark Eversh I used to
870
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:16.519
say to me, you got educated hands, You're you're gonna
871
00:48:16.519 --> 00:48:18.079
find a way to put it on the ball. But
872
00:48:18.119 --> 00:48:20.159
I would tell you for the other guys that are
873
00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:24.599
in our age category, learning what I've learned and learning
874
00:48:24.639 --> 00:48:26.719
to move in a little different way, it's a lot
875
00:48:26.800 --> 00:48:29.400
less stress on your body because, as you say, when
876
00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:32.920
you have tension, when you introduce tension anywhere in the system,
877
00:48:33.280 --> 00:48:36.519
whether that's the tension of intension, I have to put
878
00:48:36.519 --> 00:48:40.320
the club somewhere, but there's tension introduced to the system,
879
00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:43.519
it hurts, Like you know, there's a lot of manipulation
880
00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:45.960
my lower back, all these things that a lot of
881
00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:50.280
things that guys our age suffer with our as a result,
882
00:48:50.320 --> 00:48:53.000
and I'm sure you've seen it. Two coach Tim are
883
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:56.280
as a result of being tense and not being able
884
00:48:56.320 --> 00:48:58.280
to let go even though you don't know what you're
885
00:48:58.320 --> 00:49:01.360
supposed to let go? Is that that's that that rings
886
00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:02.360
true for me at least?
887
00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:03.760
Yeah, Well, I see it.
888
00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:06.400
I'll just say, Marcus, I'll just say that I see
889
00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:08.719
it in players that I coach. So I coach everyone
890
00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:13.000
from like beginners to D one players, and they're always
891
00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:15.679
concerned about whether.
892
00:49:15.480 --> 00:49:16.480
They're doing it right.
893
00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:20.719
And what I'm always saying to them is like, look,
894
00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:24.280
you're the product of millions of years of evolution. Do
895
00:49:24.320 --> 00:49:28.039
you really think that you know better than millions of
896
00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:31.360
years of evolution than like a hundred years of collected
897
00:49:31.400 --> 00:49:35.480
information about the fucking golf swing? Really, I mean, let's
898
00:49:35.800 --> 00:49:39.159
let's be instinctual here, Let's hit a golf shot, see
899
00:49:39.159 --> 00:49:42.440
a target, and bang. We don't have to think this through.
900
00:49:43.400 --> 00:49:45.480
I mean, And that's what I'm hearing you say. So
901
00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:49.320
it's kind of it's it's cool to hear you.
902
00:49:49.079 --> 00:49:51.400
You're connecting some dots from me in a big way.
903
00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:56.719
It's a primitive action, hitting, throwing, It's inherent in the system.
904
00:49:56.800 --> 00:49:59.480
And I mean we are yeah, we are born movers
905
00:50:00.199 --> 00:50:03.559
to move. And at the end of the day, we
906
00:50:03.639 --> 00:50:07.360
talked about tension. Often people are trying to create the
907
00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:10.039
power and then using the same parts of the body
908
00:50:10.119 --> 00:50:13.119
or the same sequencing to then control that power. Yeah,
909
00:50:13.159 --> 00:50:16.119
and it's it's kind of once you start to tap
910
00:50:16.159 --> 00:50:18.440
into your true potential, you start to rec you start
911
00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:21.800
to appreciate your body, You appreciate what it's offering you.
912
00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:25.280
It's offering you an invitation. There's an invitation there with
913
00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:27.119
a golf shop, and the body is offering you an
914
00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:29.519
opportunity to adapt to that. And it's how you respond
915
00:50:29.559 --> 00:50:31.920
to that invitation. How do you recognize yourself in terms
916
00:50:31.960 --> 00:50:34.440
of the schema that you possess here movement map, the
917
00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:36.880
movement map exists there, there's a repertoire that you can
918
00:50:37.039 --> 00:50:39.639
you've got the golf, the body can the body. You've
919
00:50:39.639 --> 00:50:41.360
got to then you can start to lay trust in
920
00:50:41.360 --> 00:50:43.840
the body. But if you're apprehensive, if you're not sure,
921
00:50:43.880 --> 00:50:46.239
if you've just been working on these particular movements and
922
00:50:46.239 --> 00:50:47.679
then suddenly all starts to go a bit, Hey, why
923
00:50:47.679 --> 00:50:49.119
are you become lost because you don't know, You've got
924
00:50:49.159 --> 00:50:52.880
no sense of orientation, you have no reference. So yeah,
925
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:56.840
it's it's very It goes into multiple layers, but definitely,
926
00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:02.760
first of all, becoming most people aren't reflective enough and
927
00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:06.400
introspective enough on how they on the Honestly enough, I
928
00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:09.599
would say it's almost like the blame and even people go,
929
00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:12.039
that's my coach, It's like the blaming people for their
930
00:51:12.039 --> 00:51:16.400
own It's right, and it's and that's what and also
931
00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:18.920
we expect, we expect it's also quick in this in
932
00:51:18.960 --> 00:51:22.840
this world of self gratification, instant gratification. Yeah, absolutely, Well,
933
00:51:23.280 --> 00:51:25.519
the problem is it's affecting our thinking and it's affecting
934
00:51:25.519 --> 00:51:26.039
how we learn.
935
00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:27.920
Well, what I love too is and I'm just gonna
936
00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:29.480
wrap it up by saying I could go on. We
937
00:51:29.719 --> 00:51:31.360
could do this for hours. But one of the things
938
00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:33.079
that you one of the things that you sort of
939
00:51:33.079 --> 00:51:38.920
introduced into my lexicon was adjudicating adjudicating the motion, not
940
00:51:39.039 --> 00:51:41.280
the shot. How do you feel about the way you
941
00:51:41.360 --> 00:51:43.320
made the motion? Was it a one or two or three?
942
00:51:43.360 --> 00:51:45.840
And if it wasn't the one, why wasn't it? And
943
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:49.599
a way of self reflection and of also of taking
944
00:51:49.639 --> 00:51:52.719
ownership of it. That's where we got to end, because
945
00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:55.519
I got to go golfing. Listen, can can you just
946
00:51:55.519 --> 00:51:57.000
do me if you ever can use a stick stick
947
00:51:57.000 --> 00:51:59.119
here for one minute? After we say goodbye because I
948
00:51:59.159 --> 00:52:01.679
want to business. It's because I'll say this, You're one
949
00:52:01.719 --> 00:52:05.159
of the greatest coaches I've ever met. But messaging you
950
00:52:05.199 --> 00:52:07.559
back and forth is like my teenage daughters because it's
951
00:52:07.559 --> 00:52:09.679
like I get a note that three days later I
952
00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:11.719
get a response. So just don't go away now that
953
00:52:11.760 --> 00:52:13.880
I have you in front of me. Coach Tim Tim
954
00:52:13.920 --> 00:52:17.239
O'Connor at O'Connor Goolf dot CA, a look at the substack.
955
00:52:17.639 --> 00:52:19.639
I get it. You should get it too, And of
956
00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:23.519
course Tim's book Getting Unstuck. Humble Andfredradio dot com produces
957
00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:26.079
this program. We're happy to have you guys on the
958
00:52:26.119 --> 00:52:28.480
show as always, and of course check out all the
959
00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:30.880
other programs that we do as well. This show is
960
00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:32.880
brought to you by par for Success. Go to par
961
00:52:33.039 --> 00:52:37.079
number four Success dot com, Slash Humble and Fred and
962
00:52:37.519 --> 00:52:42.239
Grf dot com to find out more about Marcus and
963
00:52:42.519 --> 00:52:44.480
what a great appearance. Thank you very much, my friend.
964
00:52:44.639 --> 00:52:46.639
Don't go away, just stay there for a second. Tim,
965
00:52:46.639 --> 00:52:49.920
I'll see you next week. Yep, and forever wee hanging
966
00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:51.679
around for this will chat too. You know, yeah you
967
00:52:51.679 --> 00:52:54.599
are because you're hosting the Zoom Time. Okay, we'll be Uh,
968
00:52:54.840 --> 00:52:57.079
we'll be back next week. We have another interesting guest.
969
00:52:57.679 --> 00:52:59.800
Tell us who we're talking to next week. There, everyone's
970
00:52:59.800 --> 00:53:01.039
gonna Jim Waldron.
971
00:53:01.239 --> 00:53:05.199
He's a really interesting cat who brings together all kinds
972
00:53:05.239 --> 00:53:12.639
of interesting experiences, from Christiana Murty to John Lilly, all.
973
00:53:12.519 --> 00:53:16.320
Kinds of course. Right, Well, it's again. This is the
974
00:53:16.320 --> 00:53:18.760
the second season of The Humble of the Humbling from
975
00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:21.960
the Humble and Tim Show. The second season and it's uh,
976
00:53:21.960 --> 00:53:24.880
we're gonna We're gonna be speaking to interesting people over
977
00:53:24.920 --> 00:53:26.440
the course of the winters, so stick with us. We'll
978
00:53:26.480 --> 00:53:30.079
see you next week. Coming in out of the raining.
979
00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:31.679
Here the gems cool now