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Welcome back to stuff.
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Interior designers need to know.
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I'm your host, Rebecca West, a residential interior designer who spent decades helping thousands of clients get happy at home.
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These days, I'm a marketing and client communication coach for other interior designers who want to raise the bar in their own businesses and across our industry.
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Whether you're flying solo or you're leading a team, this podcast is here to make sure you know what you need to know.
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To steer your residential interior design firm towards sweet sweet success.
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Today, we're diving into a topic that might not seem glamorous, but is unavoidable.
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If you want to run a successful interior design business.
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And that's bookkeeping.
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To talk us through what we need to know.
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We have Natalie Spears with us CEO of vintage gray, LLC.
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A bookkeeping firm that works exclusively with interior designers.
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In fact, she's so dedicated to her niche that when she gets asked to take on clients outside of our industry, she refers them to her colleagues.
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Can we just take a second to appreciate and learn from the genius of embracing a narrow bookkeeping niche?
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While most bookkeeping firms stick to the safe route of serving any small business.
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Much like a lot of interior design firms out there.
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Natalie picked a lane for vintage gray.
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By focusing only on interior designers, she's become an expert in exactly what we designers need to know.
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Making her not only memorable, but also super referrable from one designer to another.
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It's a perfect example of the power of a niche.
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As you listened today, think about how much more confident you feel in Natalie's expertise simply because, you know, she specializes in what we do.
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Then imagine your clients feeling that same sense of trust when they know you specialize in exactly what they need.
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That's how this niche stuff works.
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Everything gets easier when you embrace your niche, it makes marketing a breeze.
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It helps you attract the right clients and it sets you apart as the go to expert in your field.
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So a big round of applause for Natalie Spears for doubling down on her niche and dedicating her from two interior designers like us without further ado, let's dive in and hear what Natalie wishes.
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Every designer knew about bookkeeping.
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Hi, Natalie.
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Hi, Rebecca, how are you?
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I'm doing so well and I am so excited to have this conversation about bookkeeping with you I will be the first to admit Bookkeeping is not my favorite thing When I hired my first bookkeeper it kind of became a running joke that she would have to pour me a shot of whiskey every time we would sit down to have a bookkeeping meeting.
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So that's how I feel about bookkeeping.
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I hope you enjoy your job more than I would enjoy your job.
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I would say there are some days that shot of whiskey would probably be good at the end of the day too.
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But you're not any different than most designers, and most business owners in general, unless you're a bookkeeper, no one really wants to look at the financial side of things.
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Yeah, I think it's because of several different reasons.
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A lot of designers think they're bad at math.
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So as soon as a number is part of the conversation, they get a little nervous.
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We're also very visual and charts of numbers...
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Just don't translate in our head the way colors and shapes and 3d planning do.
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It's like it's a totally different language.
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Absolutely.
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Unfortunately designers have to face the numbers because you do need to know if projects are profitable.
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Just seeing that balance in a business checking account doesn't really tell you how much money your company is making.
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It can be very deceptive, especially the larger that your projects get, the more deceptive that balance can be.
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Before we start diving into what designers should know about bookkeeping, what is it you enjoy about this work?
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And how did you come to focus on helping interior designers with bookkeeping.
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I actually do love diving into the numbers.
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To make sure that an account is reconciled, everything is neat and buttoned up and organized and then to look at those monthly financials and have a really good understanding of where the business is.
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It brings me sheer joy translating that to designers who do tend to be more visual, so that they can decipher those numbers and make strategic decisions.
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So how I got into this field and why I serve designers.
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I grew up in a very small town, very small town, in Tennessee, if you can't tell by the accent.
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So, I was born, raised, and actually still live in this same small town.
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Over the course of time in working for different companies, doing various bookkeeping tasks for those businesses, the one thing that I did not have while those businesses were wonderful, what I did not have was flexibility.
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Um, I have twin boys and as they started growing, I realized I wanted the ability to attend all of their activities and because of a long commute to get to good jobs in this area, I would be on the road sometimes, uh, two hours or more a day.
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That did not leave a lot of family time to be able to participate in the activities that our boys were participating in.
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My husband at the time was working an out of town job that would take him away for 30 days at a time.
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And I didn't have that spouse available at home that could kind of, make up the difference when I wasn't around.
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My parents have always been entrepreneurs.
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So it's sort of in my genes.
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Once I saw that I didn't have that flexibility that my parents always had, I made the decision to open my own business.
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doesn't mean I don't work hard.
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Doesn't mean I don't put in over 40 hours a week.
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My parents were up long before most people.
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It was, way before daylight when they got up.
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It's way before daylight when I get up.
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It was very late when they would close their business.
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And it's usually very late when, when I get finished working.
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But it allowed for a different lifestyle.
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And that's what I wanted.
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So we opened this business.
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I already knew the bookkeeping side, and I already had a really good understanding of how to run a business.
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Maybe not necessarily how to run a bookkeeping business but how to run a business because I had grown up in that so I was very fortunate in a lot of those areas.
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We started out in the business as a general bookkeeper.
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So we were working with various industries.
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When I took on my very 1st interior designer, it was an immediate fit.
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Just, just the best fit, she is still our client to this day, uh, and I'm so proud of that because she was so happy with our services that then she said, are you taking on new clients?
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And I told her yes, and she immediately referred us to other designers who then, those two then referred us to other designers who then referred us to others and it just built on that.
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And by that second designer, I had already revamped our website so that it became very clear that all we wanted to work with going forward was interior designers and and for the last several years, that's all we have worked with, and that's the only industry that we have to this day, is interior designers, because it was such a great fit.
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And while your audience can't see my wall behind me, it's literally just a plain wall, it's very obvious that I do not have the skills to do interior design work myself.
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It is strictly on the side of bookkeeping, so I didn't go into this industry because I was a designer in the past, or because I'm wanting to learn from other designers to go into that field later.
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It has nothing to do with that.
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It is strictly because it was a great fit between what I can offer and what that industry desperately needs.
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And it, it is a desperate need for designers.
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I have so many questions I could ask you right now, but why did you just say it's a desperate need for designers?
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You said that very fervently.
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So interior designers often have a reputation for people outside the industry of they just go in and they throw a few, uh, pillows on a sofa and they hang a photo on the wall.
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It is so much more than that.
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It is a complicated industry when it comes to your financials.
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Oftentimes you are taking large amounts of money up front sometimes a hundred percent of your products.
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Some take 50 percent of their services up front.
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Some bill their services out by the hour on a weekly or bi weekly or monthly basis.
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These are plates all spinning in the air and your balance in your checking account doesn't really show you the true picture and needing to keep up with all of that can be very challenging.
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There's also the aspect of sales tax.
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Every state is different in the U.
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S.
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on sales tax, and you may be selling to various states.
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You may be like I am, where I'm literally right where Tennessee, Alabama, and Mississippi meet.
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So I'm only 30 minutes from Mississippi, 30 minutes from Alabama, but my business is located in Tennessee.
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So some of the common questions that I might get is, do I charge sales tax?
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You know, I'm registered in Tennessee.
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Do I charge sales tax when I go down to Alabama and sell to a customer down there?
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I can't tell you the number of designers that come to me who have just ignored their register.
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They're supposed to be filing sales tax, but they don't have a clue how to file it.
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So they just have put their head in the sand and have ignored it, and all they're doing there is they're building up fines and penalties, late fees for not filing that.
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So that can also be detrimental to their business.
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I never really thought about it, but for a lot of interior designers, the barriers to entry are really low.
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Unless you're opening a showroom there's not a lot of upfront costs to becoming an interior designer.
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But on the flip side of that, the actual structure of our job financially is very complicated as you point out and is not standardized.
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So in addition to everything you're talking about in terms of"Who charges what taxes, where?" and like where I'm from in Seattle, it's literally different from city to city, and you're expected to report all of those taxes on a city to city basis, even if it's five miles away from you.
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So in addition to all that, as you say, you have people billing hourly, you have people billing flat fee.
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You've got people hiring subs and paying subs and dealing with their income and W nines and fours and twos and whatever all these numbers are.
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Right.
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You've got the deposits of money that doesn't belong to you because it's actually for product.
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You've got deposits of money that does belong to you, but it's a retainer form and we could go on and on and on.
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So I can see why you said interior designers in particular can really use a bookkeeper.
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Okay.
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So my next question for you then is what is the difference between a bookkeeper and a CPA?
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That's a great question.
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I always recommend that our designers have both.
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If they have us providing monthly financials and they've got good clear insight into what their business is doing from month to month and the overall for the entire year, that's extremely helpful.
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But I'm only seeing one portion of their entire financial structure for their household.
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So maybe they're only doing their design part time right now.
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Maybe they have another full time job and they're doing the design work on the side.
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Maybe they have a spouse who also has a business or their spouse has a job..
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There are things that only a CPA is going to be able to help them with.
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While we provide a package for you to take to your CPA at the end of the year, we don't file your yearly tax return.
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That is going to be something that your CPA is going to help you with and guide you on, you know, your home, your vehicles, if you own rental property, on the various aspects of everything that you have.
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We usually recommend that designers sometime in the fall, by September, October take your current year's financials, and since we're doing it on a monthly basis, it's really easy to take those financials, sit down with your CPA and let them look at everything.
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Let them look at the entire picture, and make projections about what your tax liability will be for the current year.
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Because while you are still in the current year, you have a lot more options of what you can do to offset that tax liability before you get to the end of the year.
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Once the year is over and you're sitting down with your CPA at the beginning of'25 to discuss what your tax liability is in'24, you are so limited on what you can do at that point.
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You only have, you know, just a handful of things that you could possibly do to reduce that, that tax liability.
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But CPAs really don't want to get into the daily details of your business, the bookkeeping side of it.
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Many of our clients don't even have their CPA accessing their QuickBooks Software because their CPA really just prefers to see their financial statements for the whole year.
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Now, some do some, some CPAs do want that access.
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Others do not.
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So if I'm hearing you right, the CPA is helping with the annual financials of your whole life.
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And if you have a good one and you use them at the right time of the year, they're also helping you with some strategy.
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Whereas bookkeepers are really helping you understand how much money you have right now to work with.
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Yes, that's correct.
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I may say this is hard to give you an answer on because I don't have the entire picture.
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I would recommend that you reach out to your CPA who knows the whole picture, and they can best advise you on that." But we can provide general rules of thumb because we only support the design industry.
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We can say, okay, here's what we've been told in the past by various CPAs.
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Um, here's what, here's how my industry in general handles that.
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Here is how the design industry in general handles that.
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But we do default to the CPA.
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But I can give you a great example.
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Just recently, I had a client who, when they turned over their, their paperwork, their documentation to us, I saw that they were filing as an S-Corp.
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So, to keep from getting too in the weeds on it, she really should have been paying herself throughout the year, through payroll where payroll taxes are literally deducted from the paycheck, similar to, if you were working a job, they would pull payroll taxes out.
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That was not in the books at all.
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And when I asked her about it, she said, Oh, I didn't know I was supposed to be doing that.
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And I said, Okay, this is what I typically see.
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This is what I know.
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Before we move forward contact your CPA and confirm that they are on board with that.
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A week later she comes back to me,"you're absolutely correct, I was supposed to be doing this.
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Can you help me with that?" Yes!
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Let's talk about the designers in two groups.
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You've got your more experienced designers.
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We'll talk about them in a second, but our brand new designers.
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I remember one of the best pieces of advice, and I wish I remember who told me this, because I owe them at least a coffee, but somebody told me to set aside 10 percent of every single dollar that I was paid into a tax account.
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So there was this tiny little pool of money that was growing so that at the end of the year, I wasn't surprised if I had a big tax bill.
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Over time, we changed that to about 30 percent and it ended up becoming our savings account within the business too.
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On the opposite side of that I know when my husband started his first business, nobody gave him that advice and he was very surprised by a very, very big tax bill at the end of his first year in business.
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And I know that that has taken people out of business and caused them to go bankrupt because the cashflow just wasn't working.
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In that vein with brand new designers, what is one or two very best pieces of advice you would give to them maybe even before they're ready to hire a bookkeeper?
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That is a very good one that you've mentioned, factoring in the self employment tax, because you are not taking taxes out of a paycheck like you would in a traditional job.
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Your first year or two of business, you may not be paying quarterly estimated taxes And if you're only seeing your CPA once a year that is something that will sneak up on you and by the time you hit the new year, there's not really a whole lot you can do about it, and all the CPA can do is say, okay, you owe this much, and you have that pain of having to pay a large tax bill to the irs unexpectedly.
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I mean some people have to go borrow money to do that and even that can be challenging If you're not set up good with a bank, or set up a payment terms or something like that so you definitely don't want to have an unexpected tax bill if you can keep from it.
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Usually what we recommend is 20 to 30%, like you were saying, to estimate.
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I will tell you some of the things that I see for newer Uh for newer design businesses So you have a challenge because you only have a certain amount of profit coming in if any...
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Oh, wait, let's pause right there for a sec.
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Profit versus revenue.
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Do you feel that new designers know the difference between those two things when you first meet with them?
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Okay.
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So let's just give people a real quick what's profit, what's revenue.
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How are they different?
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So revenue is whatever you invoice your clients.
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So revenue is whenever you are invoicing out products or services, which is the usually the typical two categories, that you're invoicing to clients.
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So that is your revenue.
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Now your profit, your net profit is a very different number.
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So you could be bringing in two hundred, three hundred thousand dollars in top line revenue numbers, so you could be invoicing, uh,$200,000 to$300,000 or more and think you've got it made.
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The sad part is you may have a loss instead of a profit, you may not even have a profit.
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You may have a negative number at the end and where that is, is maybe you said, okay, I'm bringing in hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue so I can afford to hire all of these contractors and I can go sit on a, on a beach somewhere and not work at all.
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Maybe the end result of that is you end up with a loss because all of those expenses may eat into that top line revenue to the point that you don't have any profit at all.
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So you really have to monitor those things.
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One of the things that I see most often for new designers when they come to us, and maybe we clean up a mess.
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Maybe they have a mess in their financials, and we clean that up, and we, we produce their reports for them, and I sit down with them, and I go through a screen share session, and I'm showing them their financial reports, and they realize that that bottom line number is not where they expected it to be.
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If you are a sole proprietor or a single member LLC, that bottom line number, whether it be a small profit or even a loss, that's what you have to pay yourself out of.
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You're not paying yourself a paycheck, This bottom line number is your pay.
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And then I start questioning them.
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So did you factor that in when you invoiced, when you created that contract, that proposal for that project?
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Did you factor in your pay?
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Because you've got to remember that bottom line number has to be large enough that you're, you're covering your time that you're investing in the business.
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Otherwise, why have the business?
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And that's one of the common things I see.
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Yeah.
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So then, okay.
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So that's our newbies.
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They, you know, it's, it's really fundamental.
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You're going to literally have to help them understand what is profit versus revenue and how much to set aside and how to pay their taxes.
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I mean, truly the fundamentals of any business.
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Now, fast forwarding 5, 10, 15 years, what are the big mistakes you see more advanced designers making?
00:21:58.448 --> 00:22:16.958
One of the things that I see as they grow larger is that payroll aspect, whether that means that they're needing to bring on team members and pay them and determining whether they fall into the realm of a 1099 contractor, or whether they need to fall into the realm of a W 2 employee.
00:22:17.365 --> 00:22:27.855
Sometimes that's based on whether you're providing their work materials for them, a computer, software, supplies, you know, their working tools and equipment that they need.
00:22:28.484 --> 00:22:33.075
If you're determining their schedule, if you're directing them on how to perform the work.
00:22:33.345 --> 00:22:42.375
And different states are different, And how to factor in as they're growing, how to determine, okay, what, what can I afford?
00:22:42.434 --> 00:22:45.974
As they're growing, can I afford this new team member?
00:22:46.295 --> 00:22:49.384
and then the, the S Corp aspect.
00:22:49.595 --> 00:22:58.775
When they get large enough that they can transition to that S Corp, you know, I'll start warning them, okay, your CPA may be starting to have that talk with you.
00:22:59.134 --> 00:23:06.944
Once you get to that point, make sure that you reach out to us because Maybe they've never had anyone on payroll.
00:23:07.285 --> 00:23:11.095
Maybe all of their employees are 1099 contractors.
00:23:11.414 --> 00:23:16.484
So, they're just paying them either a paycheck or Zelle or something like that.
00:23:16.845 --> 00:23:20.105
And when I say paycheck, they're just writing a check for a certain amount.
00:23:20.265 --> 00:23:22.174
They're not taking out payroll taxes.
00:23:22.174 --> 00:23:23.585
They're not set up for payroll.
00:23:23.634 --> 00:23:38.494
So, I have actually built that into our system now where I warn them, before you set up payroll, don't go do that on your own, let us know, we will help you with that, because there's, there's some steps really that you need to take to make sure that you get that set up correctly.
00:23:39.025 --> 00:23:50.055
And, and they'll, they'll come, they'll come to us and ask us those questions because we have monthly meetings with our designers and we're going over the numbers.
00:23:50.095 --> 00:23:53.704
And you know, Rebecca, the numbers don't lie.
00:23:53.765 --> 00:23:59.825
And I'm all up in a designer's business because I'm seeing those numbers.
00:23:59.855 --> 00:24:06.005
And so we almost become a confidant because we do know that we know the true numbers.
00:24:06.015 --> 00:24:09.085
So they're not having to, fake it till they make it.
00:24:09.095 --> 00:24:11.424
They're not having to be something that they're not.
00:24:11.744 --> 00:24:13.045
We see their struggles.
00:24:13.045 --> 00:24:14.674
We see their successes.
00:24:14.684 --> 00:24:20.005
You know, we've, we've been able to celebrate with clients when they've hit that million dollar number.
00:24:20.194 --> 00:24:30.265
And it's so exciting and they were so busy working they didn't even know they had hit it and, you know, and we're like, look what you did this month, you know, and we're able to share that with them.
00:24:31.555 --> 00:24:42.365
If there's a level that they reach that needs strategic CFO services that get beyond my area of expertise.
00:24:42.365 --> 00:24:46.384
If you will, there's, there are CFOs that we can connect them to.
00:24:46.750 --> 00:24:52.200
For anybody who's never heard the term CFO, that is a chief financial officer.
00:24:52.539 --> 00:25:01.990
So I'm curious, CPA, CFO, bookkeeper, what are like, how would you distinguish those three jobs?
00:25:02.009 --> 00:25:05.799
How is a designer supposed to know which one they need for what?
00:25:07.690 --> 00:25:16.099
When I recommend CFOs, I find ones that, are they are providing that service specifically to interior designers.
00:25:16.579 --> 00:25:17.089
And.
00:25:18.450 --> 00:25:25.839
are in line with what we are also teaching on our side.
00:25:26.083 --> 00:25:38.548
I found some that are a great fit that simply don't want to be down in the weeds in the day to day bookkeeping side of things, looking at those individual transactions.
00:25:38.548 --> 00:25:43.097
They are wanting to look at your overall strategy for your business.
00:25:43.097 --> 00:26:13.863
So you might go to them for something like, I would really like to double that bottom line within 12 months." or"can I set up a, a budget and see how close I'm getting to that budget?" Now, we have clients who are in the millions who are able to get what they need strictly by having just a bookkeeper and just a CPA.
00:26:14.782 --> 00:26:18.143
So it's not like you're having to add these expenses.
00:26:18.432 --> 00:26:34.907
These are just particular clients who are really taking control of their finances and they want to be very strategic in where they go next because sometimes those growth steps start to feel a little bit out of control.
00:26:34.938 --> 00:26:38.097
Sometimes CFOs will only meet once a quarter.
00:26:38.317 --> 00:26:46.228
They'll look at your entire quarterly financial situation and they'll provide some of that top level guidance.
00:26:46.752 --> 00:26:48.163
Yeah, I mean, that makes sense.
00:26:48.182 --> 00:26:53.157
I mean, cause we're covering a really large span of possible situations here.
00:26:53.167 --> 00:27:03.107
You've got your, your new versus your, your more seasoned companies, but you've also got simple versus very complicated companies.
00:27:03.107 --> 00:27:04.807
And so they're all going to have different needs.
00:27:05.307 --> 00:27:19.038
And then the growth trajectory, it's funny as I'm listening to you, I'm sort of taking my own nostalgic walk down memory lane here of like when my CPA had, as you said,"the talk" with me about S Corps...
00:27:19.637 --> 00:27:20.827
It is all very familiar.
00:27:21.204 --> 00:27:38.654
That very first decision about what structure are you going to pick for your business day one, when you have no idea, you have no understanding of what the ramifications of all these decisions are, and some of them aren't decisions you can make until you hit a certain level.
00:27:39.095 --> 00:27:42.454
level of income, or they aren't decisions you have to make.
00:27:42.454 --> 00:27:48.585
Like with those quarterly estimated taxes, it's not so much that we get to decide when we do that.
00:27:48.605 --> 00:27:51.664
It's the IRS that says you're making this much money.
00:27:51.914 --> 00:27:54.484
Now you have to follow this new rule.
00:27:55.134 --> 00:28:07.335
And it sounds like these are the rules and situations that a good bookkeeping and good CPA team can help you navigate at the right milestones as you reach them.
00:28:08.605 --> 00:28:09.115
Correct.
00:28:09.224 --> 00:28:09.555
Yeah.
00:28:09.654 --> 00:28:11.200
You don't know what you don't know.
00:28:11.311 --> 00:28:22.162
And that's the scary part sometimes, you know, we all learn when we do sit down and have that meeting with that CPA one year and they say, okay, this is how much your big tax bill is.
00:28:22.501 --> 00:28:30.126
We all learn sometimes that the hard way and sometimes that's the most expensive, educational lesson we can possibly have.
00:28:30.826 --> 00:28:40.596
And then we learn from that point on, okay, now I know I need to pay estimated taxes and it needs to be, you know, 20 to 30 percent sometimes of that of that bottom line net profit number.
00:28:40.596 --> 00:29:01.406
So, learning it sometimes is difficult, but if you can If you can work with a service provider, like a bookkeeper, or like a CPA, who can, who can direct you as they see those things coming along, then, They can help guide you and be a little more proactive.
00:29:01.416 --> 00:29:08.317
That's what I really like about the fixed rate package that we offer versus an hourly rate.
00:29:08.376 --> 00:29:20.001
One of the number one complaints that I got from our very first interior design client was, I don't know how much my bill is going to be each month, so I don't know what to expect.
00:29:20.922 --> 00:29:25.201
And I'm trying to figure out how to best budget for this type of service.
00:29:25.432 --> 00:29:34.801
Thankfully, we were already doing a fixed rate service, so that worked out great, and we just kept that same structure for all of our designers going forward.
00:29:35.682 --> 00:29:52.551
I find that once our designers know that they're not going to be charged extra for sending me an email to ask me a question, they will tend to be more proactive with their financials, with their business in general, than reactive.
00:29:53.021 --> 00:30:02.761
Rather than not asking, not knowing how they were supposed to set up that invoice, not knowing what they were supposed to do, and then us having to fix it on the back end.
00:30:03.162 --> 00:30:08.791
If they know they can contact me and just say, you know what, I'm thinking about doing this.
00:30:08.791 --> 00:30:10.912
Do you have any guidance or recommendations?
00:30:11.221 --> 00:30:14.162
Do you ever see this industry doing this?
00:30:14.571 --> 00:30:16.682
And I can say, you know what, that doesn't work.
00:30:16.821 --> 00:30:19.061
I've never seen that work for any of our clients.
00:30:19.311 --> 00:30:22.797
That fixed rate package tends to.
00:30:23.336 --> 00:30:51.586
Just automatically, naturally encourage designers to be more proactive and ask us up front so that we can help them and guide them on how to do it the correct way the first time, rather than having us having to spend time fixing it on the back end or them having to spend, unwanted time either with their state or the IRS or their CPA, uh, and possibly costing them more money because it was done incorrectly or was not done in the best fashion.
00:30:51.826 --> 00:30:52.866
I'll give you an example.
00:30:52.876 --> 00:31:00.916
I had a designer who had, and this was after 2020, which we know all the challenges for designers that happened then.
00:31:01.287 --> 00:31:03.106
There were long lead times on products.
00:31:03.676 --> 00:31:09.096
They got a set of dining room chairs that were fabric covered.
00:31:09.146 --> 00:31:11.126
The vendor sent the wrong color.
00:31:11.386 --> 00:31:12.666
And they were very wrong.
00:31:13.086 --> 00:31:16.086
And so, they were going to have to return these.
00:31:16.696 --> 00:31:21.946
Even though they were going to be refunded, it was going to be a major pain to have to return them.
00:31:22.426 --> 00:31:26.817
It was still a lot of extra time that this designer was not going to be covered for.
00:31:28.112 --> 00:31:33.612
They found another designer who actually could use it in a current project they had going on.
00:31:33.672 --> 00:31:38.551
So that designer wanted to purchase those dining room chairs from my client.
00:31:39.011 --> 00:31:43.382
So they just emailed me and said, I think I know the answer on this, but would you confirm?
00:31:43.981 --> 00:31:49.386
Can I sell to this designer, sales tax exempt, and if so, what do I need to do?
00:31:49.396 --> 00:31:50.957
How do I need to make that happen?
00:31:51.946 --> 00:31:58.416
That reminds me of a, of a challenging kind of income.
00:31:58.416 --> 00:31:59.696
I don't want to call it income.
00:32:00.136 --> 00:32:04.196
So we've got our basic, you know, money flows in, that's all of our revenue.
00:32:04.436 --> 00:32:07.817
And the money that's left over is our profit and what we pay ourselves.
00:32:08.737 --> 00:32:13.027
But there is a certain kind of money that doesn't feel like revenue.
00:32:13.027 --> 00:32:17.567
And I see this trip up designers when they're like, Oh, I'll just pass through my discounts.
00:32:18.047 --> 00:32:25.876
And so they're thinking, I'm going to buy this chair for 400 and I'm going to sell it to my client for 400 because that's all it costs me.
00:32:25.876 --> 00:32:27.416
And I'm trying to pass through these discounts.
00:32:28.146 --> 00:32:35.192
And they don't realize that it costs you money to do that transaction.
00:32:35.251 --> 00:32:40.132
The government considers the 400 that they gave you revenue.
00:32:40.132 --> 00:32:51.501
They're going to tax you on that money as income, they're going to expect sales tax on that item, and there's all the literal time that went into you sourcing that.
00:32:51.501 --> 00:33:03.731
So If you're not billing for your time on sourcing you're literally losing quite a significant amount of money by trying to do this, quote, nice thing for your clients.
00:33:04.172 --> 00:33:07.362
Is this something that you see come up frequently?
00:33:07.747 --> 00:33:09.547
All the time.
00:33:09.787 --> 00:33:11.366
Yes, all the time.
00:33:12.336 --> 00:33:13.646
I cannot stress enough.
00:33:13.707 --> 00:33:21.136
Do not pass your in your, your discount, your trade discounts for those wholesale trade accounts that you worked so hard to get set up.
00:33:21.557 --> 00:33:23.727
Do not pass that on to your clients.
00:33:24.307 --> 00:33:25.826
That is set up for you.
00:33:26.207 --> 00:33:30.156
There is no way they can get that trade discount themselves.
00:33:30.217 --> 00:33:51.297
The reason that is provided to you is because you are a business, you are an interior designer, you are set up as a business that does that and you are basically telling that wholesale vendor that you are going to bring enough business their way to offset that discount that they're offering you.
00:33:51.297 --> 00:33:59.595
So This is their way of allowing you to then do a markup to make money for your business.
00:33:59.605 --> 00:34:04.394
So It works well for them because you're going to bring continual business their way.
00:34:04.625 --> 00:34:06.684
And it also works really well for you.
00:34:06.904 --> 00:34:11.025
that is a huge determination of your bottom line number.
00:34:11.065 --> 00:34:15.724
Some of the greatest profits that I see for designers.
00:34:16.155 --> 00:34:19.054
Is about setting up those wholesale trade discounts.
00:34:19.570 --> 00:34:25.760
not passing that discount on, charging a substantial markup, and making a profit.
00:34:26.349 --> 00:34:27.869
So don't pass those on.
00:34:27.869 --> 00:34:36.309
Those are set up for you and when you pass that on, you can really end up showing a loss at the end of the day.
00:34:37.376 --> 00:34:38.856
So all the things you said are true.
00:34:38.856 --> 00:34:41.817
And I'll add one more to that: cash flow.
00:34:42.630 --> 00:34:52.492
literally have designers who come to me who purchase a product, they'll pay sales tax on it at retail, and then they will sell that product.
00:34:53.068 --> 00:34:54.768
And not charge sales tax on it.
00:34:54.827 --> 00:34:56.797
And they won't charge a markup.
00:34:57.177 --> 00:35:00.967
All because they think they can avoid having to file sales tax.
00:35:01.237 --> 00:35:02.878
Which may or may not be true in their state.
00:35:03.268 --> 00:35:06.717
But my question is always, Why?
00:35:08.438 --> 00:35:12.398
Why would you sell a product that you are not going to markup?
00:35:12.757 --> 00:35:15.938
Well, so I could get the business for the design services side.
00:35:16.293 --> 00:35:19.313
Well, just let them go out and buy their own products then.
00:35:20.163 --> 00:35:28.603
Don't be out the cash so if you charge it all on credit card, you don't pay that credit card off, you may have interest charges on that credit card.
00:35:29.773 --> 00:35:33.882
You're just, you're reducing your cash flow down, which if you don't have enough cash flow.
00:35:34.213 --> 00:36:04.938
Can hamper your business from growing so purchase wholesale get those trades set up, do not pass on your discount, mark up your products, purchase sales tax exempt, charge sales tax on the full price of the products if they're taxable in your state, and then, charge a substantial markup because the thing about it is there is a lot of time that you are not counting that goes into procuring of these products.
00:36:05.228 --> 00:36:09.427
Just like the designer example that I gave you where the color was wrong.
00:36:09.978 --> 00:36:22.751
I promise you she did not get reimbursed for any of that time that she had to spend on that I have seen designers who cut out the product aspect and just do the services side.
00:36:22.751 --> 00:36:32.722
And while that is a good line of income, sometimes it takes away a huge portion of their profits if they disregard products entirely.
00:36:33.001 --> 00:36:37.461
Because the argument is, well, I don't want to deal with the hassle of it.
00:36:37.791 --> 00:36:38.621
Well, guess what?
00:36:38.702 --> 00:36:40.141
Neither does your end customer.
00:36:40.972 --> 00:36:49.742
I am actually one of those design on the designers and I have been told over and over again, you know, you're leaving all this money on the table and all these things are just decisions.
00:36:49.742 --> 00:36:49.791
Yeah.
00:36:50.101 --> 00:36:52.822
You know, I'd made that decision very thoughtfully.
00:36:53.152 --> 00:36:59.391
But the key is don't then over serve your customers and literally lose money.
00:36:59.391 --> 00:37:03.702
We get so cheap with our own time as if it's valueless.
00:37:03.751 --> 00:37:05.431
And if we do that to ourselves.
00:37:06.266 --> 00:37:09.856
our clients are going to treat our time cheaply as well.
00:37:10.206 --> 00:37:21.186
And when we pass through our discounts, and this is, you know, for me doing design only, I would in the early days pass through even the retail discounts, Williams and Sonoma and wherever.
00:37:21.197 --> 00:37:21.657
Okay.
00:37:21.657 --> 00:37:26.186
Well now they're going to send me an email to make sure that it's okay, that this client uses this trade number.
00:37:26.186 --> 00:37:31.396
And now I'm literally paying my time to help them save.
00:37:31.871 --> 00:37:34.831
Not that much money in the end.
00:37:35.262 --> 00:37:41.751
And so it is just about getting really clear about what your job is and isn't and not putting the focus on the wrong thing.
00:37:42.012 --> 00:37:46.172
People hiring an interior designer shouldn't be because of the trade discounts.
00:37:46.172 --> 00:37:48.731
There should be so much value there.
00:37:49.327 --> 00:38:00.086
That whether or not you pass through a trade discount, it has nothing to do with whether or not they're going to hire you, but it has everything to do with whether or not you're profitable at the end of the day.
00:38:00.106 --> 00:38:02.786
So it's not a huge impact on your client.
00:38:03.126 --> 00:38:10.867
It is a huge impact on your business, the decisions you make about each of these things and on your professionalism.
00:38:11.637 --> 00:38:15.806
You know, are you in business or aren't you?
00:38:16.536 --> 00:38:20.186
And that's really what this whole thing is about, this finance stuff.
00:38:20.271 --> 00:38:20.811
Right.
00:38:21.472 --> 00:38:23.751
I probably say at least once a week.
00:38:24.132 --> 00:38:25.632
You're not a nonprofit.
00:38:25.722 --> 00:38:26.161
Yeah,
00:38:26.862 --> 00:38:38.952
I mean, do they really think that, you know, a large store, like even something as simple as Walmart, do you really think that they're not making a profit?
00:38:38.952 --> 00:38:41.681
Do you really think that they're not getting wholesale?
00:38:41.992 --> 00:38:48.871
Discount rates on purchasing, you know, large quantities of product and then marking those up to you.
00:38:49.112 --> 00:38:54.836
You're not going into Walmart and asking them to sell that to you at cost.
00:38:54.943 --> 00:38:55.893
it would be ridiculous.
00:38:56.092 --> 00:39:00.293
No one would even, would even consider doing something like that.
00:39:01.052 --> 00:39:07.393
First of all, if that's the first question that your customer is asking when they come to you, that might not be the best fit customer.
00:39:08.043 --> 00:39:10.411
You know, because sometimes I'll get pushback.
00:39:10.630 --> 00:39:16.061
When I suggest that and, and they'll say, but they can go out and see that product.
00:39:16.090 --> 00:39:18.530
They can Google that product and see what the price is.
00:39:19.021 --> 00:39:26.751
And I've explained to them, look, if I was hiring a designer, I do not have time to go out and Google products.
00:39:27.876 --> 00:39:35.516
You may not be dealing with the right customer if that's what the customer is doing.
00:39:35.706 --> 00:39:46.436
How we present our invoices to our clients has a profound effect on if they feel like they're being nickel and dimed, or they need to question every single line item.
00:39:46.835 --> 00:39:56.755
Do you coach your clients on the formatting and communication of their invoices, or is that something more for somebody like myself,
00:39:58.295 --> 00:40:01.025
So we usually refer them to you for that.
00:40:01.295 --> 00:40:08.815
One of the areas where I recommend they not nickel and dime, and I get this question, Rebecca, multiple times a week.
00:40:08.896 --> 00:40:12.306
I literally have this conversation multiple times.
00:40:12.646 --> 00:40:14.286
Credit card processing
00:40:14.521 --> 00:40:14.920
Yup.
00:40:15.891 --> 00:40:28.210
The most successful designers we see are the ones who do not get caught up on having to pay the credit card processing fees.
00:40:30.121 --> 00:40:34.630
I would really love it if every one of your listeners would let that sink in.
00:40:35.010 --> 00:40:41.990
Do not get caught up on having, the expense of the credit card processing fees.
00:40:42.690 --> 00:40:48.775
I find so many designers who do not want to allow customers to pay with credit card.
00:40:49.536 --> 00:40:59.235
Because they, they see that that large number that they're collecting and it's a large amount and it's usually a percentage of that total amount.
00:40:59.545 --> 00:41:06.065
And I've even had some CPAs who will guide customers into reducing those processing
00:41:06.356 --> 00:41:06.385
What?
00:41:07.076 --> 00:41:07.436
So
00:41:08.351 --> 00:41:34.731
Yeah, yeah, I've had that conversation before, and, I remind them when you suddenly list that as a separate line item on your invoices or in your proposal, you are shining a bright spotlight on that one line item, and you are taking away from the overall project that you have built out for them, and suddenly all the focus goes down on that one number.
00:41:34.731 --> 00:41:34.771
Yeah.
00:41:35.655 --> 00:41:41.525
And there are various reasons why your clients may want to pay with credit card.
00:41:42.076 --> 00:41:46.655
You know, a spouse may want to hide the true expense of a design project.
00:41:46.655 --> 00:41:54.885
I hate to say that, but I've had this conversation with designers before who want to hide the true expense of a, of a design project from their spouse.
00:41:55.619 --> 00:41:58.358
Maybe they want to justify it by saying, I get rewards.
00:41:58.869 --> 00:42:05.719
points on my credit card or I get those, those airline miles, uh, and they will justify a family trip.
00:42:05.728 --> 00:42:09.429
Look, look, honey, we got to take this trip, you know, with these miles.
00:42:09.838 --> 00:42:22.079
Or maybe they just don't want to admit that they don't have, they may have plenty of, of income coming in to cover your design project, but maybe they just don't have that in readily available cash.
00:42:22.449 --> 00:42:28.434
Maybe they want the option to pay that off in two installments on their next two credit cards.
00:42:28.434 --> 00:42:31.693
Statements, you know, maybe they want to break it in half.
00:42:31.693 --> 00:42:40.023
So maybe they want to take 100, 000 project and they want to say, okay, I'm going to pay 50, 000 this month and 50, 000 the next month to the credit card company.
00:42:40.313 --> 00:42:42.653
They may not want to have that conversation with you.
00:42:42.974 --> 00:42:46.943
Do not make it difficult for your customers to pay you.
00:42:47.244 --> 00:42:49.293
You're at the one yard line.
00:42:50.443 --> 00:42:52.264
Why stop them right there?
00:42:52.268 --> 00:42:52.918
Yes.
00:42:53.298 --> 00:42:53.798
Yes.
00:42:53.838 --> 00:42:56.458
Oh, you are, you are preaching to the choir right now.
00:42:56.878 --> 00:43:07.268
And I'll tell you, I mean, I remember going through that and you're looking at those PayPal fees or Zelle fees or whatever the fees, you know, if you're up with a big processor, they're all around 3%.
00:43:07.918 --> 00:43:08.409
Okay.
00:43:08.409 --> 00:43:12.969
The way I look at it is through two lenses that really helped me psychologically.
00:43:12.969 --> 00:43:16.018
Number one is I just treat it like utility.
00:43:16.458 --> 00:43:18.219
You know, I can't get away with.
00:43:19.384 --> 00:43:23.164
Oh, here on my invoice, you're going to pay 5 percent of my rent this month.
00:43:23.224 --> 00:43:25.414
Like that would be weird to put on your invoice.
00:43:25.704 --> 00:43:28.003
You know, you're going to pay my phone bill for this month.
00:43:28.023 --> 00:43:30.114
That'd be weird to put on the invoice.
00:43:30.503 --> 00:43:31.824
So this is just a utility.
00:43:31.824 --> 00:43:33.074
It's a cost of doing business.
00:43:33.114 --> 00:43:37.713
Why in the world would I ever put that in front of my clients and put that in their head?
00:43:37.713 --> 00:43:44.853
And then the second thing was that I'm like, well, the bigger that number is the better I'm doing in business.
00:43:45.474 --> 00:43:47.063
So that felt really good.
00:43:47.583 --> 00:43:51.983
So it is a mentality shift, and it goes back to are you in business or not?
00:43:51.983 --> 00:43:55.764
Are you a business person or are you not a business person?
00:43:55.764 --> 00:43:58.673
And if you're gonna be a business person, you have to start thinking like one.
00:43:58.673 --> 00:44:05.003
yes, I literally said almost the exact same words you said about utilities just yesterday.
00:44:05.003 --> 00:44:09.184
Like, literally, you think about it, your liability insurance.
00:44:09.213 --> 00:44:12.134
As a designer, you need to have business liability insurance.
00:44:12.344 --> 00:44:24.094
You are not going to prorate that monthly charge out by the number of projects you have this month and say, okay, one line item on your invoice is for, you know, 2.
00:44:24.134 --> 00:44:28.014
50 for this monthly liability insurance that I have.
00:44:28.313 --> 00:44:31.923
Literally that's what you're doing with a credit card processing fee.
00:44:32.634 --> 00:44:34.963
Just build it into your.
00:44:35.179 --> 00:44:39.418
your cost of the project just like you build everything else in.
00:44:39.648 --> 00:44:45.679
You build the cost of your business phone in, your liability insurance, the softwares that you use.
00:44:46.358 --> 00:44:52.358
If you have 1099 contractors, you build all of that in to the cost of that project.
00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:54.818
Just build the credit card fee in.
00:44:55.244 --> 00:44:56.864
Regardless of how they pay.
00:44:57.403 --> 00:45:04.994
Plus, in some states, it is illegal to pass on those credit card processing fees to your end customer.
00:45:05.293 --> 00:45:13.324
In some merchant service agreement contracts that, that you basically check and say I accept, but nobody ever reads.
00:45:13.614 --> 00:45:21.184
In some of that fine print, you cannot make a difference between whether someone pays with cash or check versus credit card.
00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:23.619
So that's always my argument.
00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:25.099
You are the business owner.
00:45:25.159 --> 00:45:30.099
You get to make the decisions, whether they are good or bad decisions for your company.
00:45:30.418 --> 00:45:33.409
This, in my opinion, is a bad decision, but you're the business owner.
00:45:33.409 --> 00:45:34.898
You get to make the decision.
00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:35.518
yeah.
00:45:35.909 --> 00:45:44.623
Although I will add one more argument in our argument's favor, which is that if anybody is not after everything, Natalie and I just said, convinced that we're right.
00:45:45.494 --> 00:45:59.563
Just think about how you feel when you pay your cell phone bill, and it's so confusing because your bill is 70, but somehow your real bill is 110 because of this fee and that fee.
00:45:59.563 --> 00:46:01.103
It's the same thing that airlines are doing.
00:46:01.103 --> 00:46:02.914
It's the same thing that Airbnb is doing.
00:46:03.554 --> 00:46:05.143
And nobody likes it.
00:46:05.204 --> 00:46:11.193
So if we don't like it on those platforms in our day to day lives, why would we want to inflict that upon our clients?
00:46:12.528 --> 00:46:17.018
Yes, and going back to someone like Walmart, you don't see that.
00:46:17.188 --> 00:46:22.088
If you pay with credit card at Walmart, you're not given the option before you swap that card.
00:46:22.088 --> 00:46:31.018
They don't say, you know, your bill is a hundred dollars if you pay with cash or check, but we're going to tack on 3 percent if you use credit card.
00:46:31.278 --> 00:46:32.139
They don't do that.
00:46:32.509 --> 00:46:36.478
But I promise you They are covered for credit card processing fee.
00:46:36.789 --> 00:46:41.918
They end up at the end of the year with a substantial profit for their company.
00:46:43.059 --> 00:46:54.108
No, no designer ever gets caught up on the expense of their website design or their software they're using, their, their liability insurance.
00:46:54.184 --> 00:46:57.164
It's their, their monthly business cell phone bill.
00:46:57.523 --> 00:47:09.304
They don't get caught up on those expenses, but they get caught up because they feel like somehow, they would just be that much more profitable if no one ever used the credit card.
00:47:09.304 --> 00:47:12.833
But keep in mind, you may be deterring customers.
00:47:12.994 --> 00:47:14.434
Everything else is the same.
00:47:15.784 --> 00:47:24.164
And one designer is offering that customer to pay with credit card versus you are not allowing them to pay with credit card.
00:47:24.858 --> 00:47:26.489
You may have lost a customer.
00:47:26.628 --> 00:47:33.219
What if you lose that hundred, two hundred thousand dollar project Simply because you wouldn't take credit card.
00:47:33.349 --> 00:47:33.978
So silly.
00:47:35.148 --> 00:47:42.159
Well I feel like you may have already answered my final and most important question, but I'll give you the chance to have another answer too.
00:47:42.199 --> 00:47:49.278
So big picture, what makes you grind your teeth at night when you see designers do it?
00:47:49.289 --> 00:47:59.869
What do you really, really, really wish interior designers knew about bookkeeping that would make their life and your life as their bookkeeper easier?
00:48:01.018 --> 00:48:03.648
I will touch on one that we haven't talked about.
00:48:03.688 --> 00:48:07.449
It's not as frequent as, as getting hung up on processing fees.
00:48:07.878 --> 00:48:09.003
but one of the things that can potentially be detrimental to your business is co-mingling of funds.
00:48:09.003 --> 00:48:18.846
Now, I'm using, bookkeeping terms, so let me explain that for those who might not know.
00:48:19.246 --> 00:48:35.806
Basically, if you are trying to run your business out of your personal checking account, so everything is running through one account, versus having a dedicated, Business checking account and a dedicated business credit card account.
00:48:35.865 --> 00:48:40.306
Dedicated accounts that are completely separate from your personal.
00:48:40.556 --> 00:48:42.576
That is business 101.
00:48:42.585 --> 00:49:01.260
It doesn't matter if you're an interior designer, what I'm a designer, Industry of business you're in that is one of the first lessons that you need to learn as a business owner keep those separate It can Open you up to additional liability if you're not careful with that.
00:49:01.581 --> 00:49:05.880
So that's the legal reasoning for doing that.
00:49:06.210 --> 00:49:07.610
so keep that in mind.
00:49:08.041 --> 00:49:16.280
The challenge as a bookkeeper is I'm going to assume that everything that is running through your business is related to your business.
00:49:16.561 --> 00:49:37.543
So if you start going and buying groceries for your family, if you're purchase that with your business, credit card, it is going to potentially cost you more in services because if I'm having to fish out all the individual personal expenses, you've got co mingled with your business expenses.
00:49:37.943 --> 00:49:45.172
It's taking me and my team more time to do that, which means your fixed monthly rate is going to cost more.
00:49:45.753 --> 00:49:47.333
And there's just no way around that.
00:49:47.563 --> 00:49:47.853
Yeah.
00:49:47.853 --> 00:49:50.083
And again, this is just a decision you can make.
00:49:50.083 --> 00:49:56.592
You can show up to your bookkeeper with the proverbial shoebox full of receipts and say here, good luck.
00:49:57.333 --> 00:50:00.123
And that's totally normal actually.
00:50:00.402 --> 00:50:01.492
But it will cost you more.
00:50:01.902 --> 00:50:07.172
But I'm really glad you brought that up because that was a real important takeaway from me early on when I.
00:50:07.447 --> 00:50:11.967
Set up my company as a limited liability company, an LLC.
00:50:12.568 --> 00:50:14.827
And my advisor was very clear with me.
00:50:14.827 --> 00:50:17.538
He's like, we need to separate church and state here.
00:50:17.797 --> 00:50:21.367
You need to have your personal accounts and your business accounts.
00:50:21.708 --> 00:50:24.407
And he, he didn't talk to me from the bookkeeping lens.
00:50:24.407 --> 00:50:39.047
It was very much that liability lens of the whole point of having a limited liability company is that your company is seen as a separate responsible entity from you as a human.
00:50:39.547 --> 00:50:57.108
And every time you blur those lines between the company entity and you at the entity that is taking away and eroding that legal protection that in theory, you took on by choosing to have an LLC company in the first place.
00:50:57.628 --> 00:50:58.057
So.
00:50:58.123 --> 00:51:01.943
And, and it just makes the bookkeeping harder, so don't do it anyway.
00:51:02.329 --> 00:51:02.628
Yes.
00:51:02.688 --> 00:51:33.829
if you're, if you're more, apt to not commingle funds because I've said it's going to hurt your pocketbook, sometimes that immediate it's going to hit my pocketbook is more of a deterrence than The possibility of, of, of, you know, all of your assets being stripped away from you because you, you did not protect yourself You set up that limited liability company to begin with, there was a reason that was set up that way and all you're doing is exposing your company.
00:51:34.199 --> 00:51:47.726
You know, to potential liability and, and, and potentially exposing your personal as well setting up that LLC was to protect you from that, but you have to do your part in order to, maintain that protection.
00:51:48.846 --> 00:51:56.536
Well, obviously, we could talk for days about the intricacies of bookkeeping, but this has been absolutely wonderful.
00:51:56.576 --> 00:52:03.416
Is there anything in particular, after all of those gems and nuggets, that you would want to leave with our listeners today?
00:52:05.675 --> 00:52:22.405
So one of the fears I get from designers, and it surprises me that that this is the big concern when they first start talking to me, is that designers are often very concerned about the mess that their financials are.
00:52:22.748 --> 00:52:24.849
You're coming to me for bookkeeping services.
00:52:24.878 --> 00:52:28.099
I'm naturally going to assume that you have a hot mess.
00:52:29.768 --> 00:52:33.188
I am going to assume that you do not have it all together.
00:52:33.548 --> 00:52:35.559
Otherwise, why do you need me?
00:52:36.478 --> 00:52:52.304
So just like I'm not going to go through and And try to do a bang up job of interior design in my house before I hire a designer, it's okay to come to me with your mess.
00:52:52.653 --> 00:52:54.974
Trust me, it is not the worst I've seen.
00:52:55.724 --> 00:53:00.594
So that is, that is one of the biggest concerns that designers have.
00:53:02.003 --> 00:53:11.153
They are not concerned with the fact that they didn't file sales tax all of last year, but they are very concerned that I'm going to see the mess of their financials.
00:53:11.704 --> 00:53:13.384
So that's one of the things.
00:53:13.864 --> 00:53:26.157
Another thing that I would like to leave you is the fact that designers often tell me after we have that meeting I actually feel so much better just having this meeting with you.
00:53:27.364 --> 00:53:31.313
I finished a cleanup not long ago and it was one of the greatest compliments I ever got.
00:53:32.713 --> 00:53:43.253
Your team has brought a sense of calm to me that I have not felt throughout the entire, Lifetime of my business, and they've been in business for quite some time.
00:53:43.833 --> 00:53:51.653
their husband was in another industry entirely their husband was so stressed and they wanted their husband to have that same sense of calm.
00:53:51.724 --> 00:53:55.764
I said, no, but I can actually refer you to a great colleague who's in that industry.
00:53:56.023 --> 00:54:02.173
So I put them in touch and I talked to them recently and they said that your colleague is wonderful.
00:54:02.284 --> 00:54:06.733
We're moving forward with them that we're already feeling so much better about that too.
00:54:06.733 --> 00:54:17.188
So while it may be a hot mess right now If you will take the time and, and feel that you are able that your company, how do you know if you can afford it?
00:54:17.188 --> 00:54:18.688
So you don't even know what your profits are.
00:54:18.688 --> 00:54:19.298
Most of the time.
00:54:19.318 --> 00:54:25.469
That's what's amazing to me is I, I may not, I don't know if I can afford you what that's because you don't even know what you're making.
00:54:25.478 --> 00:54:28.789
How can you also know if you can afford to go to high point?
00:54:29.048 --> 00:54:31.318
How do you know if you can afford to invest?
00:54:31.418 --> 00:54:32.916
How did you make your first investment?
00:54:32.916 --> 00:54:38.248
in that conference that you've really been wanting to go to, or that new software that you would like to purchase for your company?
00:54:38.539 --> 00:54:42.489
Or, virtual assistant, or help with a junior designer?
00:54:42.668 --> 00:54:43.978
How do you know any of that?
00:54:43.998 --> 00:54:46.858
You don't have a clue how much money you are bringing in?
00:54:46.858 --> 00:54:49.039
You don't know how much money is going out?
00:54:49.039 --> 00:54:50.878
You don't know what your bottom line number is?
00:54:51.228 --> 00:54:54.123
So, You You know, we are not the cheapest.
00:54:54.224 --> 00:54:56.213
We are also not the most expensive.
00:54:56.963 --> 00:54:59.344
We are a fair price for what we offer.
00:54:59.614 --> 00:55:09.954
And, hopefully we can bring that sense of calm to everyone that we, that we meet with and that we deal with, because it's a very deserving industry.
00:55:10.949 --> 00:55:14.998
We work hard for the money we bring in, that is for sure.
00:55:14.998 --> 00:55:17.768
Oh
00:55:18.304 --> 00:55:20.824
working business owners I have ever seen.
00:55:21.003 --> 00:55:24.253
And sometimes they are working in heels.
00:55:25.164 --> 00:55:28.713
They are dressed to the nines, they are working in heels.
00:55:28.943 --> 00:55:35.393
I literally have a client who, they just put a brand new floor down for, a client.
00:55:35.764 --> 00:55:46.623
They were, they had cleaned that floor for a beautiful reveal, slipped and fell on that floor and ended up with a mild concussion.
00:55:47.184 --> 00:55:50.014
Guarantee you, guarantee you they had heels on.
00:55:52.619 --> 00:55:56.838
All right, well in our next podcast we'll be talking about fashion tips for safety.
00:55:57.443 --> 00:56:01.304
Brought to you by Natalie, the bookkeeper, but
00:56:01.483 --> 00:56:02.934
Trust me, you do not want that.
00:56:02.943 --> 00:56:04.364
obviously getting ahold of you.
00:56:04.364 --> 00:56:07.143
We'll all be in the show notes, but what's your website?
00:56:07.143 --> 00:56:08.364
Where can people find you?
00:56:09.983 --> 00:56:12.333
Yeah, so our website is vintagegrayllc.
00:56:12.333 --> 00:56:13.298
com.
00:56:13.298 --> 00:56:18.297
So gray gray is spelled with an e, so it's g r e y.
00:56:18.371 --> 00:56:23.972
Didn't think about the business name and having to give that website out numerous times.
00:56:25.001 --> 00:56:25.942
So think about that.
00:56:25.942 --> 00:56:29.222
If you're thinking about starting an interior design business, make it simple.
00:56:30.061 --> 00:56:31.731
But it's vintagegrayllc.
00:56:33.012 --> 00:56:41.851
com and from there you can easily schedule a complimentary consultation and just sit down and talk to me about your bookkeeping needs.
00:56:42.132 --> 00:56:49.032
That's usually the first step if you're interested in working with us is have that initial, consultation.
00:56:49.032 --> 00:56:50.697
It usually lasts about an hour.
00:56:50.996 --> 00:56:54.166
We will get on a virtual meeting face to face.
00:56:54.567 --> 00:56:57.617
And that way you see who you would be working with.
00:56:57.617 --> 00:56:59.297
I see who I would be working with.
00:56:59.737 --> 00:57:07.416
And, let's take a look at your financials and let me get a feel of what's going on in there sometimes it's helpful to see what you've got going on right now.
00:57:08.067 --> 00:57:22.697
so that I can give you a more accurate, proposal, uh, of what our services would be and hopefully I can at least bring some, some insight and maybe some calm for at least an hour of your busy day.
00:57:22.987 --> 00:57:28.536
We are on social media, on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram, and we do try to post daily.
00:57:29.382 --> 00:57:31.751
And some of those posts can even help you.
00:57:31.981 --> 00:57:34.132
Again, you don't know what you don't know.
00:57:34.161 --> 00:57:40.112
So simple things like for designers, so I'll give this little nugget of information here at the end.
00:57:40.472 --> 00:57:45.842
So say at the end of the project, you want to, you want to purchase a really impressive gift for that customer.
00:57:46.072 --> 00:57:53.192
As a thank you for doing business with them, as a thank you for referring them to future projects or doing follow up work with them.
00:57:53.552 --> 00:57:59.132
the challenge is you're limited, on what is deductible from a tax standpoint.
00:57:59.311 --> 00:58:07.771
You could spend any amount of money you want to on that gift, but keep in mind you may be limited 25 per client per year.
00:58:08.311 --> 00:58:18.467
That is so painful for designers because 25 So, you know, the cost is usually very minimal compared to what you would typically spend sometimes for these larger projects.
00:58:18.786 --> 00:58:19.757
And that's okay.
00:58:19.757 --> 00:58:26.166
You can spend you know, 100 plus, uh, for a client to give them a really nice, impressive gift at the end.
00:58:26.427 --> 00:58:33.547
Just know only 25 of that is going to count as tax deductible for your business at the end of the year.
00:58:33.757 --> 00:58:38.476
The rest can still be shown as a business expense, but it's not going to be a deduction.
00:58:38.527 --> 00:59:06.257
Those are some of the types of posts that we might have out there on LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook that you might not have thought of and might not know to ask or might not know to research further, So if you don't feel like you can afford bookkeeping services or CPA services or CFO services, Initially, when you're first getting started, maybe some of those posts might help you and guide you to know what to research further.
00:59:06.907 --> 00:59:08.226
Thank you so much.
00:59:08.257 --> 00:59:09.007
Everybody.
00:59:09.016 --> 00:59:13.646
Vintage gray, Natalie, the bookkeeper, For our actual industry.
00:59:13.697 --> 00:59:19.086
I love that you have chosen a niche so that you are an expert in what we do.
00:59:19.126 --> 00:59:21.407
Thank you so much for your time today, Natalie.
00:59:22.152 --> 00:59:22.891
Thank you so much.
00:59:22.891 --> 00:59:24.121
It was a pleasure to be here.
00:59:25.648 --> 00:59:28.289
Well folks, that's it for today's round of stuff.
00:59:28.289 --> 00:59:29.969
Interior designers need to know.
00:59:30.298 --> 00:59:33.958
Did you have an aha moment or a favorite takeaway from today's episode?
00:59:34.259 --> 00:59:37.588
Come find me on Instagram at be seriously happy.
00:59:37.588 --> 00:59:38.668
And tell me what you learned.
00:59:39.099 --> 00:59:45.878
Were you inspired by the fact that Natalie, so bravely leaned into a narrow niche and feel ready to target a tribe of your own.
00:59:46.239 --> 00:59:51.998
Ask me about my nail, your niche course, it's now available as a self study course for just 350 bucks.
00:59:52.028 --> 00:59:53.168
As of this recording.
00:59:53.588 --> 00:59:56.349
That's 500 less than the cost of the life course.
00:59:56.409 --> 00:59:58.688
And you can complete it at your own pace.
00:59:59.168 --> 01:00:00.188
Last, but not least.
01:00:00.219 --> 01:00:05.708
Please let your interior design colleagues know about this podcast so we can all learn and succeed together.
01:00:06.128 --> 01:00:09.998
Until next time, may your design biz make you seriously happy?
00:00:09.141 --> 00:00:10.282
Welcome back to stuff.
00:00:10.282 --> 00:00:12.022
Interior designers need to know.
00:00:12.321 --> 00:00:19.132
I'm your host, Rebecca West, a residential interior designer who spent decades helping thousands of clients get happy at home.
00:00:19.625 --> 00:00:27.844
These days, I'm a marketing and client communication coach for other interior designers who want to raise the bar in their own businesses and across our industry.
00:00:28.385 --> 00:00:34.054
Whether you're flying solo or you're leading a team, this podcast is here to make sure you know what you need to know.
00:00:34.295 --> 00:00:38.765
To steer your residential interior design firm towards sweet sweet success.
00:00:39.424 --> 00:00:44.524
Today, we're diving into a topic that might not seem glamorous, but is unavoidable.
00:00:44.524 --> 00:00:47.704
If you want to run a successful interior design business.
00:00:48.185 --> 00:00:49.204
And that's bookkeeping.
00:00:49.715 --> 00:00:51.604
To talk us through what we need to know.
00:00:51.634 --> 00:00:55.835
We have Natalie Spears with us CEO of vintage gray, LLC.
00:00:56.164 --> 00:01:00.155
A bookkeeping firm that works exclusively with interior designers.
00:01:00.604 --> 00:01:09.155
In fact, she's so dedicated to her niche that when she gets asked to take on clients outside of our industry, she refers them to her colleagues.
00:01:09.855 --> 00:01:16.875
Can we just take a second to appreciate and learn from the genius of embracing a narrow bookkeeping niche?
00:01:17.564 --> 00:01:22.424
While most bookkeeping firms stick to the safe route of serving any small business.
00:01:22.754 --> 00:01:25.545
Much like a lot of interior design firms out there.
00:01:25.905 --> 00:01:28.424
Natalie picked a lane for vintage gray.
00:01:28.784 --> 00:01:35.084
By focusing only on interior designers, she's become an expert in exactly what we designers need to know.
00:01:35.444 --> 00:01:41.114
Making her not only memorable, but also super referrable from one designer to another.
00:01:41.474 --> 00:01:45.015
It's a perfect example of the power of a niche.
00:01:45.674 --> 00:01:54.885
As you listened today, think about how much more confident you feel in Natalie's expertise simply because, you know, she specializes in what we do.
00:01:55.635 --> 00:02:02.805
Then imagine your clients feeling that same sense of trust when they know you specialize in exactly what they need.
00:02:03.465 --> 00:02:06.375
That's how this niche stuff works.
00:02:06.734 --> 00:02:11.175
Everything gets easier when you embrace your niche, it makes marketing a breeze.
00:02:11.474 --> 00:02:18.974
It helps you attract the right clients and it sets you apart as the go to expert in your field.
00:02:19.634 --> 00:02:32.235
So a big round of applause for Natalie Spears for doubling down on her niche and dedicating her from two interior designers like us without further ado, let's dive in and hear what Natalie wishes.
00:02:32.264 --> 00:02:34.634
Every designer knew about bookkeeping.
00:02:35.895 --> 00:02:36.915
Hi, Natalie.
00:02:37.475 --> 00:02:39.056
Hi, Rebecca, how are you?
00:02:39.140 --> 00:03:01.402
I'm doing so well and I am so excited to have this conversation about bookkeeping with you I will be the first to admit Bookkeeping is not my favorite thing When I hired my first bookkeeper it kind of became a running joke that she would have to pour me a shot of whiskey every time we would sit down to have a bookkeeping meeting.
00:03:01.402 --> 00:03:05.842
So that's how I feel about bookkeeping.
00:03:05.853 --> 00:03:09.272
I hope you enjoy your job more than I would enjoy your job.
00:03:09.272 --> 00:03:14.032
I would say there are some days that shot of whiskey would probably be good at the end of the day too.
00:03:14.932 --> 00:03:26.663
But you're not any different than most designers, and most business owners in general, unless you're a bookkeeper, no one really wants to look at the financial side of things.
00:03:26.919 --> 00:03:29.573
Yeah, I think it's because of several different reasons.
00:03:29.582 --> 00:03:32.992
A lot of designers think they're bad at math.
00:03:33.112 --> 00:03:37.492
So as soon as a number is part of the conversation, they get a little nervous.
00:03:38.233 --> 00:03:41.432
We're also very visual and charts of numbers...
00:03:41.712 --> 00:03:47.622
Just don't translate in our head the way colors and shapes and 3d planning do.
00:03:47.622 --> 00:03:49.633
It's like it's a totally different language.
00:03:49.848 --> 00:03:50.598
Absolutely.
00:03:50.939 --> 00:03:58.449
Unfortunately designers have to face the numbers because you do need to know if projects are profitable.
00:03:58.750 --> 00:04:06.400
Just seeing that balance in a business checking account doesn't really tell you how much money your company is making.
00:04:06.729 --> 00:04:15.414
It can be very deceptive, especially the larger that your projects get, the more deceptive that balance can be.
00:04:15.675 --> 00:04:23.055
Before we start diving into what designers should know about bookkeeping, what is it you enjoy about this work?
00:04:23.074 --> 00:04:28.490
And how did you come to focus on helping interior designers with bookkeeping.
00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:32.149
I actually do love diving into the numbers.
00:04:32.189 --> 00:04:44.923
To make sure that an account is reconciled, everything is neat and buttoned up and organized and then to look at those monthly financials and have a really good understanding of where the business is.
00:04:45.218 --> 00:04:55.547
It brings me sheer joy translating that to designers who do tend to be more visual, so that they can decipher those numbers and make strategic decisions.
00:04:55.990 --> 00:05:00.995
So how I got into this field and why I serve designers.
00:05:01.394 --> 00:05:09.605
I grew up in a very small town, very small town, in Tennessee, if you can't tell by the accent.
00:05:09.605 --> 00:05:13.285
So, I was born, raised, and actually still live in this same small town.
00:05:13.764 --> 00:05:30.514
Over the course of time in working for different companies, doing various bookkeeping tasks for those businesses, the one thing that I did not have while those businesses were wonderful, what I did not have was flexibility.
00:05:30.894 --> 00:05:50.081
Um, I have twin boys and as they started growing, I realized I wanted the ability to attend all of their activities and because of a long commute to get to good jobs in this area, I would be on the road sometimes, uh, two hours or more a day.
00:05:50.432 --> 00:05:57.081
That did not leave a lot of family time to be able to participate in the activities that our boys were participating in.
00:05:57.312 --> 00:06:03.122
My husband at the time was working an out of town job that would take him away for 30 days at a time.
00:06:03.512 --> 00:06:11.391
And I didn't have that spouse available at home that could kind of, make up the difference when I wasn't around.
00:06:13.098 --> 00:06:16.077
My parents have always been entrepreneurs.
00:06:16.127 --> 00:06:17.497
So it's sort of in my genes.
00:06:17.548 --> 00:06:24.737
Once I saw that I didn't have that flexibility that my parents always had, I made the decision to open my own business.
00:06:24.827 --> 00:06:26.278
doesn't mean I don't work hard.
00:06:26.288 --> 00:06:29.108
Doesn't mean I don't put in over 40 hours a week.
00:06:29.418 --> 00:06:32.048
My parents were up long before most people.
00:06:32.057 --> 00:06:35.668
It was, way before daylight when they got up.
00:06:35.687 --> 00:06:37.718
It's way before daylight when I get up.
00:06:38.077 --> 00:06:41.007
It was very late when they would close their business.
00:06:41.017 --> 00:06:44.057
And it's usually very late when, when I get finished working.
00:06:44.367 --> 00:06:46.987
But it allowed for a different lifestyle.
00:06:47.028 --> 00:06:48.336
And that's what I wanted.
00:06:48.387 --> 00:06:49.807
So we opened this business.
00:06:50.377 --> 00:06:57.927
I already knew the bookkeeping side, and I already had a really good understanding of how to run a business.
00:06:58.216 --> 00:07:07.247
Maybe not necessarily how to run a bookkeeping business but how to run a business because I had grown up in that so I was very fortunate in a lot of those areas.
00:07:07.877 --> 00:07:11.526
We started out in the business as a general bookkeeper.
00:07:11.526 --> 00:07:14.177
So we were working with various industries.
00:07:14.754 --> 00:07:21.363
When I took on my very 1st interior designer, it was an immediate fit.
00:07:22.213 --> 00:07:34.973
Just, just the best fit, she is still our client to this day, uh, and I'm so proud of that because she was so happy with our services that then she said, are you taking on new clients?
00:07:35.949 --> 00:07:47.428
And I told her yes, and she immediately referred us to other designers who then, those two then referred us to other designers who then referred us to others and it just built on that.
00:07:47.769 --> 00:08:07.928
And by that second designer, I had already revamped our website so that it became very clear that all we wanted to work with going forward was interior designers and and for the last several years, that's all we have worked with, and that's the only industry that we have to this day, is interior designers, because it was such a great fit.
00:08:08.278 --> 00:08:20.778
And while your audience can't see my wall behind me, it's literally just a plain wall, it's very obvious that I do not have the skills to do interior design work myself.
00:08:21.278 --> 00:08:33.923
It is strictly on the side of bookkeeping, so I didn't go into this industry because I was a designer in the past, or because I'm wanting to learn from other designers to go into that field later.
00:08:34.274 --> 00:08:35.884
It has nothing to do with that.
00:08:35.894 --> 00:08:44.173
It is strictly because it was a great fit between what I can offer and what that industry desperately needs.
00:08:44.484 --> 00:08:46.894
And it, it is a desperate need for designers.
00:08:46.923 --> 00:08:52.634
I have so many questions I could ask you right now, but why did you just say it's a desperate need for designers?
00:08:52.653 --> 00:08:54.024
You said that very fervently.
00:08:55.163 --> 00:09:10.529
So interior designers often have a reputation for people outside the industry of they just go in and they throw a few, uh, pillows on a sofa and they hang a photo on the wall.
00:09:11.659 --> 00:09:13.059
It is so much more than that.
00:09:13.965 --> 00:09:18.375
It is a complicated industry when it comes to your financials.
00:09:18.794 --> 00:09:27.024
Oftentimes you are taking large amounts of money up front sometimes a hundred percent of your products.
00:09:27.445 --> 00:09:30.975
Some take 50 percent of their services up front.
00:09:31.044 --> 00:09:37.034
Some bill their services out by the hour on a weekly or bi weekly or monthly basis.
00:09:37.695 --> 00:09:50.184
These are plates all spinning in the air and your balance in your checking account doesn't really show you the true picture and needing to keep up with all of that can be very challenging.
00:09:50.534 --> 00:09:53.504
There's also the aspect of sales tax.
00:09:53.782 --> 00:09:55.572
Every state is different in the U.
00:09:55.572 --> 00:09:56.032
S.
00:09:56.142 --> 00:09:59.802
on sales tax, and you may be selling to various states.
00:09:59.932 --> 00:10:06.182
You may be like I am, where I'm literally right where Tennessee, Alabama, and Mississippi meet.
00:10:06.461 --> 00:10:12.481
So I'm only 30 minutes from Mississippi, 30 minutes from Alabama, but my business is located in Tennessee.
00:10:12.481 --> 00:10:17.022
So some of the common questions that I might get is, do I charge sales tax?
00:10:17.251 --> 00:10:18.721
You know, I'm registered in Tennessee.
00:10:18.721 --> 00:10:22.485
Do I charge sales tax when I go down to Alabama and sell to a customer down there?
00:10:22.674 --> 00:10:28.620
I can't tell you the number of designers that come to me who have just ignored their register.
00:10:28.650 --> 00:10:32.311
They're supposed to be filing sales tax, but they don't have a clue how to file it.
00:10:32.591 --> 00:10:43.410
So they just have put their head in the sand and have ignored it, and all they're doing there is they're building up fines and penalties, late fees for not filing that.
00:10:43.431 --> 00:10:46.150
So that can also be detrimental to their business.
00:10:46.201 --> 00:10:51.374
I never really thought about it, but for a lot of interior designers, the barriers to entry are really low.
00:10:51.380 --> 00:10:57.193
Unless you're opening a showroom there's not a lot of upfront costs to becoming an interior designer.
00:10:57.464 --> 00:11:09.083
But on the flip side of that, the actual structure of our job financially is very complicated as you point out and is not standardized.
00:11:09.344 --> 00:11:25.119
So in addition to everything you're talking about in terms of"Who charges what taxes, where?" and like where I'm from in Seattle, it's literally different from city to city, and you're expected to report all of those taxes on a city to city basis, even if it's five miles away from you.
00:11:26.249 --> 00:11:31.879
So in addition to all that, as you say, you have people billing hourly, you have people billing flat fee.
00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:41.484
You've got people hiring subs and paying subs and dealing with their income and W nines and fours and twos and whatever all these numbers are.
00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:42.749
Right.
00:11:43.033 --> 00:11:48.094
You've got the deposits of money that doesn't belong to you because it's actually for product.
00:11:48.144 --> 00:11:54.884
You've got deposits of money that does belong to you, but it's a retainer form and we could go on and on and on.
00:11:55.394 --> 00:12:01.364
So I can see why you said interior designers in particular can really use a bookkeeper.
00:12:01.364 --> 00:12:01.413
Okay.
00:12:02.073 --> 00:12:07.884
So my next question for you then is what is the difference between a bookkeeper and a CPA?
00:12:09.139 --> 00:12:10.089
That's a great question.
00:12:10.109 --> 00:12:13.615
I always recommend that our designers have both.
00:12:13.615 --> 00:12:25.946
If they have us providing monthly financials and they've got good clear insight into what their business is doing from month to month and the overall for the entire year, that's extremely helpful.
00:12:26.525 --> 00:12:33.375
But I'm only seeing one portion of their entire financial structure for their household.
00:12:33.745 --> 00:12:37.576
So maybe they're only doing their design part time right now.
00:12:37.586 --> 00:12:41.936
Maybe they have another full time job and they're doing the design work on the side.
00:12:42.135 --> 00:12:47.331
Maybe they have a spouse who also has a business or their spouse has a job..
00:12:47.331 --> 00:12:50.740
There are things that only a CPA is going to be able to help them with.
00:12:50.980 --> 00:12:58.390
While we provide a package for you to take to your CPA at the end of the year, we don't file your yearly tax return.
00:12:58.660 --> 00:13:12.091
That is going to be something that your CPA is going to help you with and guide you on, you know, your home, your vehicles, if you own rental property, on the various aspects of everything that you have.
00:13:12.421 --> 00:13:29.211
We usually recommend that designers sometime in the fall, by September, October take your current year's financials, and since we're doing it on a monthly basis, it's really easy to take those financials, sit down with your CPA and let them look at everything.
00:13:29.270 --> 00:13:38.405
Let them look at the entire picture, and make projections about what your tax liability will be for the current year.
00:13:38.796 --> 00:13:49.936
Because while you are still in the current year, you have a lot more options of what you can do to offset that tax liability before you get to the end of the year.
00:13:50.306 --> 00:14:03.686
Once the year is over and you're sitting down with your CPA at the beginning of'25 to discuss what your tax liability is in'24, you are so limited on what you can do at that point.
00:14:03.846 --> 00:14:10.326
You only have, you know, just a handful of things that you could possibly do to reduce that, that tax liability.
00:14:10.576 --> 00:14:19.015
But CPAs really don't want to get into the daily details of your business, the bookkeeping side of it.
00:14:20.025 --> 00:14:32.341
Many of our clients don't even have their CPA accessing their QuickBooks Software because their CPA really just prefers to see their financial statements for the whole year.
00:14:32.601 --> 00:14:36.312
Now, some do some, some CPAs do want that access.
00:14:36.341 --> 00:14:37.192
Others do not.
00:14:37.491 --> 00:14:44.111
So if I'm hearing you right, the CPA is helping with the annual financials of your whole life.
00:14:44.631 --> 00:14:51.302
And if you have a good one and you use them at the right time of the year, they're also helping you with some strategy.
00:14:51.621 --> 00:14:58.001
Whereas bookkeepers are really helping you understand how much money you have right now to work with.
00:14:58.761 --> 00:14:59.692
Yes, that's correct.
00:14:59.692 --> 00:15:04.412
I may say this is hard to give you an answer on because I don't have the entire picture.
00:15:04.871 --> 00:15:16.577
I would recommend that you reach out to your CPA who knows the whole picture, and they can best advise you on that." But we can provide general rules of thumb because we only support the design industry.
00:15:16.577 --> 00:15:20.778
We can say, okay, here's what we've been told in the past by various CPAs.
00:15:21.107 --> 00:15:24.528
Um, here's what, here's how my industry in general handles that.
00:15:24.738 --> 00:15:27.677
Here is how the design industry in general handles that.
00:15:28.038 --> 00:15:30.258
But we do default to the CPA.
00:15:30.278 --> 00:15:31.938
But I can give you a great example.
00:15:32.298 --> 00:15:41.936
Just recently, I had a client who, when they turned over their, their paperwork, their documentation to us, I saw that they were filing as an S-Corp.
00:15:42.150 --> 00:15:58.691
So, to keep from getting too in the weeds on it, she really should have been paying herself throughout the year, through payroll where payroll taxes are literally deducted from the paycheck, similar to, if you were working a job, they would pull payroll taxes out.
00:15:59.750 --> 00:16:01.975
That was not in the books at all.
00:16:02.025 --> 00:16:05.755
And when I asked her about it, she said, Oh, I didn't know I was supposed to be doing that.
00:16:05.755 --> 00:16:09.025
And I said, Okay, this is what I typically see.
00:16:09.076 --> 00:16:10.206
This is what I know.
00:16:10.556 --> 00:16:16.706
Before we move forward contact your CPA and confirm that they are on board with that.
00:16:16.936 --> 00:16:21.416
A week later she comes back to me,"you're absolutely correct, I was supposed to be doing this.
00:16:21.696 --> 00:16:24.035
Can you help me with that?" Yes!
00:16:25.336 --> 00:16:27.176
Let's talk about the designers in two groups.
00:16:27.176 --> 00:16:28.775
You've got your more experienced designers.
00:16:28.775 --> 00:16:31.605
We'll talk about them in a second, but our brand new designers.
00:16:32.291 --> 00:16:47.551
I remember one of the best pieces of advice, and I wish I remember who told me this, because I owe them at least a coffee, but somebody told me to set aside 10 percent of every single dollar that I was paid into a tax account.
00:16:48.041 --> 00:16:56.556
So there was this tiny little pool of money that was growing so that at the end of the year, I wasn't surprised if I had a big tax bill.
00:16:57.056 --> 00:17:02.456
Over time, we changed that to about 30 percent and it ended up becoming our savings account within the business too.
00:17:03.086 --> 00:17:16.441
On the opposite side of that I know when my husband started his first business, nobody gave him that advice and he was very surprised by a very, very big tax bill at the end of his first year in business.
00:17:16.760 --> 00:17:23.090
And I know that that has taken people out of business and caused them to go bankrupt because the cashflow just wasn't working.
00:17:24.070 --> 00:17:36.490
In that vein with brand new designers, what is one or two very best pieces of advice you would give to them maybe even before they're ready to hire a bookkeeper?
00:17:37.590 --> 00:17:47.667
That is a very good one that you've mentioned, factoring in the self employment tax, because you are not taking taxes out of a paycheck like you would in a traditional job.
00:17:47.971 --> 00:18:14.433
Your first year or two of business, you may not be paying quarterly estimated taxes And if you're only seeing your CPA once a year that is something that will sneak up on you and by the time you hit the new year, there's not really a whole lot you can do about it, and all the CPA can do is say, okay, you owe this much, and you have that pain of having to pay a large tax bill to the irs unexpectedly.
00:18:14.443 --> 00:18:29.554
I mean some people have to go borrow money to do that and even that can be challenging If you're not set up good with a bank, or set up a payment terms or something like that so you definitely don't want to have an unexpected tax bill if you can keep from it.
00:18:29.970 --> 00:18:34.529
Usually what we recommend is 20 to 30%, like you were saying, to estimate.
00:18:34.972 --> 00:18:47.792
I will tell you some of the things that I see for newer Uh for newer design businesses So you have a challenge because you only have a certain amount of profit coming in if any...
00:18:48.182 --> 00:18:49.982
Oh, wait, let's pause right there for a sec.
00:18:50.428 --> 00:18:52.167
Profit versus revenue.
00:18:52.178 --> 00:18:56.778
Do you feel that new designers know the difference between those two things when you first meet with them?
00:18:57.847 --> 00:18:57.887
Okay.
00:18:57.938 --> 00:19:01.978
So let's just give people a real quick what's profit, what's revenue.
00:19:02.048 --> 00:19:02.827
How are they different?
00:19:04.048 --> 00:19:08.538
So revenue is whatever you invoice your clients.
00:19:08.847 --> 00:19:19.857
So revenue is whenever you are invoicing out products or services, which is the usually the typical two categories, that you're invoicing to clients.
00:19:20.137 --> 00:19:21.698
So that is your revenue.
00:19:22.038 --> 00:19:26.998
Now your profit, your net profit is a very different number.
00:19:27.538 --> 00:19:44.188
So you could be bringing in two hundred, three hundred thousand dollars in top line revenue numbers, so you could be invoicing, uh,$200,000 to$300,000 or more and think you've got it made.
00:19:44.698 --> 00:19:50.423
The sad part is you may have a loss instead of a profit, you may not even have a profit.
00:19:50.423 --> 00:20:08.603
You may have a negative number at the end and where that is, is maybe you said, okay, I'm bringing in hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue so I can afford to hire all of these contractors and I can go sit on a, on a beach somewhere and not work at all.
00:20:09.438 --> 00:20:20.208
Maybe the end result of that is you end up with a loss because all of those expenses may eat into that top line revenue to the point that you don't have any profit at all.
00:20:20.857 --> 00:20:23.637
So you really have to monitor those things.
00:20:23.718 --> 00:20:31.827
One of the things that I see most often for new designers when they come to us, and maybe we clean up a mess.
00:20:31.948 --> 00:20:49.518
Maybe they have a mess in their financials, and we clean that up, and we, we produce their reports for them, and I sit down with them, and I go through a screen share session, and I'm showing them their financial reports, and they realize that that bottom line number is not where they expected it to be.
00:20:49.837 --> 00:21:01.988
If you are a sole proprietor or a single member LLC, that bottom line number, whether it be a small profit or even a loss, that's what you have to pay yourself out of.
00:21:02.532 --> 00:21:07.542
You're not paying yourself a paycheck, This bottom line number is your pay.
00:21:07.553 --> 00:21:09.282
And then I start questioning them.
00:21:09.762 --> 00:21:17.732
So did you factor that in when you invoiced, when you created that contract, that proposal for that project?
00:21:18.063 --> 00:21:20.093
Did you factor in your pay?
00:21:20.373 --> 00:21:29.182
Because you've got to remember that bottom line number has to be large enough that you're, you're covering your time that you're investing in the business.
00:21:29.423 --> 00:21:31.163
Otherwise, why have the business?
00:21:31.702 --> 00:21:33.563
And that's one of the common things I see.
00:21:33.728 --> 00:21:34.198
Yeah.
00:21:35.018 --> 00:21:35.607
So then, okay.
00:21:35.607 --> 00:21:36.718
So that's our newbies.
00:21:36.738 --> 00:21:39.127
They, you know, it's, it's really fundamental.
00:21:39.127 --> 00:21:45.807
You're going to literally have to help them understand what is profit versus revenue and how much to set aside and how to pay their taxes.
00:21:45.807 --> 00:21:49.137
I mean, truly the fundamentals of any business.
00:21:49.798 --> 00:21:58.077
Now, fast forwarding 5, 10, 15 years, what are the big mistakes you see more advanced designers making?
00:21:58.448 --> 00:22:16.958
One of the things that I see as they grow larger is that payroll aspect, whether that means that they're needing to bring on team members and pay them and determining whether they fall into the realm of a 1099 contractor, or whether they need to fall into the realm of a W 2 employee.
00:22:17.365 --> 00:22:27.855
Sometimes that's based on whether you're providing their work materials for them, a computer, software, supplies, you know, their working tools and equipment that they need.
00:22:28.484 --> 00:22:33.075
If you're determining their schedule, if you're directing them on how to perform the work.
00:22:33.345 --> 00:22:42.375
And different states are different, And how to factor in as they're growing, how to determine, okay, what, what can I afford?
00:22:42.434 --> 00:22:45.974
As they're growing, can I afford this new team member?
00:22:46.295 --> 00:22:49.384
and then the, the S Corp aspect.
00:22:49.595 --> 00:22:58.775
When they get large enough that they can transition to that S Corp, you know, I'll start warning them, okay, your CPA may be starting to have that talk with you.
00:22:59.134 --> 00:23:06.944
Once you get to that point, make sure that you reach out to us because Maybe they've never had anyone on payroll.
00:23:07.285 --> 00:23:11.095
Maybe all of their employees are 1099 contractors.
00:23:11.414 --> 00:23:16.484
So, they're just paying them either a paycheck or Zelle or something like that.
00:23:16.845 --> 00:23:20.105
And when I say paycheck, they're just writing a check for a certain amount.
00:23:20.265 --> 00:23:22.174
They're not taking out payroll taxes.
00:23:22.174 --> 00:23:23.585
They're not set up for payroll.
00:23:23.634 --> 00:23:38.494
So, I have actually built that into our system now where I warn them, before you set up payroll, don't go do that on your own, let us know, we will help you with that, because there's, there's some steps really that you need to take to make sure that you get that set up correctly.
00:23:39.025 --> 00:23:50.055
And, and they'll, they'll come, they'll come to us and ask us those questions because we have monthly meetings with our designers and we're going over the numbers.
00:23:50.095 --> 00:23:53.704
And you know, Rebecca, the numbers don't lie.
00:23:53.765 --> 00:23:59.825
And I'm all up in a designer's business because I'm seeing those numbers.
00:23:59.855 --> 00:24:06.005
And so we almost become a confidant because we do know that we know the true numbers.
00:24:06.015 --> 00:24:09.085
So they're not having to, fake it till they make it.
00:24:09.095 --> 00:24:11.424
They're not having to be something that they're not.
00:24:11.744 --> 00:24:13.045
We see their struggles.
00:24:13.045 --> 00:24:14.674
We see their successes.
00:24:14.684 --> 00:24:20.005
You know, we've, we've been able to celebrate with clients when they've hit that million dollar number.
00:24:20.194 --> 00:24:30.265
And it's so exciting and they were so busy working they didn't even know they had hit it and, you know, and we're like, look what you did this month, you know, and we're able to share that with them.
00:24:31.555 --> 00:24:42.365
If there's a level that they reach that needs strategic CFO services that get beyond my area of expertise.
00:24:42.365 --> 00:24:46.384
If you will, there's, there are CFOs that we can connect them to.
00:24:46.750 --> 00:24:52.200
For anybody who's never heard the term CFO, that is a chief financial officer.
00:24:52.539 --> 00:25:01.990
So I'm curious, CPA, CFO, bookkeeper, what are like, how would you distinguish those three jobs?
00:25:02.009 --> 00:25:05.799
How is a designer supposed to know which one they need for what?
00:25:07.690 --> 00:25:16.099
When I recommend CFOs, I find ones that, are they are providing that service specifically to interior designers.
00:25:16.579 --> 00:25:17.089
And.
00:25:18.450 --> 00:25:25.839
are in line with what we are also teaching on our side.
00:25:26.083 --> 00:25:38.548
I found some that are a great fit that simply don't want to be down in the weeds in the day to day bookkeeping side of things, looking at those individual transactions.
00:25:38.548 --> 00:25:43.097
They are wanting to look at your overall strategy for your business.
00:25:43.097 --> 00:26:13.863
So you might go to them for something like, I would really like to double that bottom line within 12 months." or"can I set up a, a budget and see how close I'm getting to that budget?" Now, we have clients who are in the millions who are able to get what they need strictly by having just a bookkeeper and just a CPA.
00:26:14.782 --> 00:26:18.143
So it's not like you're having to add these expenses.
00:26:18.432 --> 00:26:34.907
These are just particular clients who are really taking control of their finances and they want to be very strategic in where they go next because sometimes those growth steps start to feel a little bit out of control.
00:26:34.938 --> 00:26:38.097
Sometimes CFOs will only meet once a quarter.
00:26:38.317 --> 00:26:46.228
They'll look at your entire quarterly financial situation and they'll provide some of that top level guidance.
00:26:46.752 --> 00:26:48.163
Yeah, I mean, that makes sense.
00:26:48.182 --> 00:26:53.157
I mean, cause we're covering a really large span of possible situations here.
00:26:53.167 --> 00:27:03.107
You've got your, your new versus your, your more seasoned companies, but you've also got simple versus very complicated companies.
00:27:03.107 --> 00:27:04.807
And so they're all going to have different needs.
00:27:05.307 --> 00:27:19.038
And then the growth trajectory, it's funny as I'm listening to you, I'm sort of taking my own nostalgic walk down memory lane here of like when my CPA had, as you said,"the talk" with me about S Corps...
00:27:19.637 --> 00:27:20.827
It is all very familiar.
00:27:21.204 --> 00:27:38.654
That very first decision about what structure are you going to pick for your business day one, when you have no idea, you have no understanding of what the ramifications of all these decisions are, and some of them aren't decisions you can make until you hit a certain level.
00:27:39.095 --> 00:27:42.454
level of income, or they aren't decisions you have to make.
00:27:42.454 --> 00:27:48.585
Like with those quarterly estimated taxes, it's not so much that we get to decide when we do that.
00:27:48.605 --> 00:27:51.664
It's the IRS that says you're making this much money.
00:27:51.914 --> 00:27:54.484
Now you have to follow this new rule.
00:27:55.134 --> 00:28:07.335
And it sounds like these are the rules and situations that a good bookkeeping and good CPA team can help you navigate at the right milestones as you reach them.
00:28:08.605 --> 00:28:09.115
Correct.
00:28:09.224 --> 00:28:09.555
Yeah.
00:28:09.654 --> 00:28:11.200
You don't know what you don't know.
00:28:11.311 --> 00:28:22.162
And that's the scary part sometimes, you know, we all learn when we do sit down and have that meeting with that CPA one year and they say, okay, this is how much your big tax bill is.
00:28:22.501 --> 00:28:30.126
We all learn sometimes that the hard way and sometimes that's the most expensive, educational lesson we can possibly have.
00:28:30.826 --> 00:28:40.596
And then we learn from that point on, okay, now I know I need to pay estimated taxes and it needs to be, you know, 20 to 30 percent sometimes of that of that bottom line net profit number.
00:28:40.596 --> 00:29:01.406
So, learning it sometimes is difficult, but if you can If you can work with a service provider, like a bookkeeper, or like a CPA, who can, who can direct you as they see those things coming along, then, They can help guide you and be a little more proactive.
00:29:01.416 --> 00:29:08.317
That's what I really like about the fixed rate package that we offer versus an hourly rate.
00:29:08.376 --> 00:29:20.001
One of the number one complaints that I got from our very first interior design client was, I don't know how much my bill is going to be each month, so I don't know what to expect.
00:29:20.922 --> 00:29:25.201
And I'm trying to figure out how to best budget for this type of service.
00:29:25.432 --> 00:29:34.801
Thankfully, we were already doing a fixed rate service, so that worked out great, and we just kept that same structure for all of our designers going forward.
00:29:35.682 --> 00:29:52.551
I find that once our designers know that they're not going to be charged extra for sending me an email to ask me a question, they will tend to be more proactive with their financials, with their business in general, than reactive.
00:29:53.021 --> 00:30:02.761
Rather than not asking, not knowing how they were supposed to set up that invoice, not knowing what they were supposed to do, and then us having to fix it on the back end.
00:30:03.162 --> 00:30:08.791
If they know they can contact me and just say, you know what, I'm thinking about doing this.
00:30:08.791 --> 00:30:10.912
Do you have any guidance or recommendations?
00:30:11.221 --> 00:30:14.162
Do you ever see this industry doing this?
00:30:14.571 --> 00:30:16.682
And I can say, you know what, that doesn't work.
00:30:16.821 --> 00:30:19.061
I've never seen that work for any of our clients.
00:30:19.311 --> 00:30:22.797
That fixed rate package tends to.
00:30:23.336 --> 00:30:51.586
Just automatically, naturally encourage designers to be more proactive and ask us up front so that we can help them and guide them on how to do it the correct way the first time, rather than having us having to spend time fixing it on the back end or them having to spend, unwanted time either with their state or the IRS or their CPA, uh, and possibly costing them more money because it was done incorrectly or was not done in the best fashion.
00:30:51.826 --> 00:30:52.866
I'll give you an example.
00:30:52.876 --> 00:31:00.916
I had a designer who had, and this was after 2020, which we know all the challenges for designers that happened then.
00:31:01.287 --> 00:31:03.106
There were long lead times on products.
00:31:03.676 --> 00:31:09.096
They got a set of dining room chairs that were fabric covered.
00:31:09.146 --> 00:31:11.126
The vendor sent the wrong color.
00:31:11.386 --> 00:31:12.666
And they were very wrong.
00:31:13.086 --> 00:31:16.086
And so, they were going to have to return these.
00:31:16.696 --> 00:31:21.946
Even though they were going to be refunded, it was going to be a major pain to have to return them.
00:31:22.426 --> 00:31:26.817
It was still a lot of extra time that this designer was not going to be covered for.
00:31:28.112 --> 00:31:33.612
They found another designer who actually could use it in a current project they had going on.
00:31:33.672 --> 00:31:38.551
So that designer wanted to purchase those dining room chairs from my client.
00:31:39.011 --> 00:31:43.382
So they just emailed me and said, I think I know the answer on this, but would you confirm?
00:31:43.981 --> 00:31:49.386
Can I sell to this designer, sales tax exempt, and if so, what do I need to do?
00:31:49.396 --> 00:31:50.957
How do I need to make that happen?
00:31:51.946 --> 00:31:58.416
That reminds me of a, of a challenging kind of income.
00:31:58.416 --> 00:31:59.696
I don't want to call it income.
00:32:00.136 --> 00:32:04.196
So we've got our basic, you know, money flows in, that's all of our revenue.
00:32:04.436 --> 00:32:07.817
And the money that's left over is our profit and what we pay ourselves.
00:32:08.737 --> 00:32:13.027
But there is a certain kind of money that doesn't feel like revenue.
00:32:13.027 --> 00:32:17.567
And I see this trip up designers when they're like, Oh, I'll just pass through my discounts.
00:32:18.047 --> 00:32:25.876
And so they're thinking, I'm going to buy this chair for 400 and I'm going to sell it to my client for 400 because that's all it costs me.
00:32:25.876 --> 00:32:27.416
And I'm trying to pass through these discounts.
00:32:28.146 --> 00:32:35.192
And they don't realize that it costs you money to do that transaction.
00:32:35.251 --> 00:32:40.132
The government considers the 400 that they gave you revenue.
00:32:40.132 --> 00:32:51.501
They're going to tax you on that money as income, they're going to expect sales tax on that item, and there's all the literal time that went into you sourcing that.
00:32:51.501 --> 00:33:03.731
So If you're not billing for your time on sourcing you're literally losing quite a significant amount of money by trying to do this, quote, nice thing for your clients.
00:33:04.172 --> 00:33:07.362
Is this something that you see come up frequently?
00:33:07.747 --> 00:33:09.547
All the time.
00:33:09.787 --> 00:33:11.366
Yes, all the time.
00:33:12.336 --> 00:33:13.646
I cannot stress enough.
00:33:13.707 --> 00:33:21.136
Do not pass your in your, your discount, your trade discounts for those wholesale trade accounts that you worked so hard to get set up.
00:33:21.557 --> 00:33:23.727
Do not pass that on to your clients.
00:33:24.307 --> 00:33:25.826
That is set up for you.
00:33:26.207 --> 00:33:30.156
There is no way they can get that trade discount themselves.
00:33:30.217 --> 00:33:51.297
The reason that is provided to you is because you are a business, you are an interior designer, you are set up as a business that does that and you are basically telling that wholesale vendor that you are going to bring enough business their way to offset that discount that they're offering you.
00:33:51.297 --> 00:33:59.595
So This is their way of allowing you to then do a markup to make money for your business.
00:33:59.605 --> 00:34:04.394
So It works well for them because you're going to bring continual business their way.
00:34:04.625 --> 00:34:06.684
And it also works really well for you.
00:34:06.904 --> 00:34:11.025
that is a huge determination of your bottom line number.
00:34:11.065 --> 00:34:15.724
Some of the greatest profits that I see for designers.
00:34:16.155 --> 00:34:19.054
Is about setting up those wholesale trade discounts.
00:34:19.570 --> 00:34:25.760
not passing that discount on, charging a substantial markup, and making a profit.
00:34:26.349 --> 00:34:27.869
So don't pass those on.
00:34:27.869 --> 00:34:36.309
Those are set up for you and when you pass that on, you can really end up showing a loss at the end of the day.
00:34:37.376 --> 00:34:38.856
So all the things you said are true.
00:34:38.856 --> 00:34:41.817
And I'll add one more to that: cash flow.
00:34:42.630 --> 00:34:52.492
literally have designers who come to me who purchase a product, they'll pay sales tax on it at retail, and then they will sell that product.
00:34:53.068 --> 00:34:54.768
And not charge sales tax on it.
00:34:54.827 --> 00:34:56.797
And they won't charge a markup.
00:34:57.177 --> 00:35:00.967
All because they think they can avoid having to file sales tax.
00:35:01.237 --> 00:35:02.878
Which may or may not be true in their state.
00:35:03.268 --> 00:35:06.717
But my question is always, Why?
00:35:08.438 --> 00:35:12.398
Why would you sell a product that you are not going to markup?
00:35:12.757 --> 00:35:15.938
Well, so I could get the business for the design services side.
00:35:16.293 --> 00:35:19.313
Well, just let them go out and buy their own products then.
00:35:20.163 --> 00:35:28.603
Don't be out the cash so if you charge it all on credit card, you don't pay that credit card off, you may have interest charges on that credit card.
00:35:29.773 --> 00:35:33.882
You're just, you're reducing your cash flow down, which if you don't have enough cash flow.
00:35:34.213 --> 00:36:04.938
Can hamper your business from growing so purchase wholesale get those trades set up, do not pass on your discount, mark up your products, purchase sales tax exempt, charge sales tax on the full price of the products if they're taxable in your state, and then, charge a substantial markup because the thing about it is there is a lot of time that you are not counting that goes into procuring of these products.
00:36:05.228 --> 00:36:09.427
Just like the designer example that I gave you where the color was wrong.
00:36:09.978 --> 00:36:22.751
I promise you she did not get reimbursed for any of that time that she had to spend on that I have seen designers who cut out the product aspect and just do the services side.
00:36:22.751 --> 00:36:32.722
And while that is a good line of income, sometimes it takes away a huge portion of their profits if they disregard products entirely.
00:36:33.001 --> 00:36:37.461
Because the argument is, well, I don't want to deal with the hassle of it.
00:36:37.791 --> 00:36:38.621
Well, guess what?
00:36:38.702 --> 00:36:40.141
Neither does your end customer.
00:36:40.972 --> 00:36:49.742
I am actually one of those design on the designers and I have been told over and over again, you know, you're leaving all this money on the table and all these things are just decisions.
00:36:49.742 --> 00:36:49.791
Yeah.
00:36:50.101 --> 00:36:52.822
You know, I'd made that decision very thoughtfully.
00:36:53.152 --> 00:36:59.391
But the key is don't then over serve your customers and literally lose money.
00:36:59.391 --> 00:37:03.702
We get so cheap with our own time as if it's valueless.
00:37:03.751 --> 00:37:05.431
And if we do that to ourselves.
00:37:06.266 --> 00:37:09.856
our clients are going to treat our time cheaply as well.
00:37:10.206 --> 00:37:21.186
And when we pass through our discounts, and this is, you know, for me doing design only, I would in the early days pass through even the retail discounts, Williams and Sonoma and wherever.
00:37:21.197 --> 00:37:21.657
Okay.
00:37:21.657 --> 00:37:26.186
Well now they're going to send me an email to make sure that it's okay, that this client uses this trade number.
00:37:26.186 --> 00:37:31.396
And now I'm literally paying my time to help them save.
00:37:31.871 --> 00:37:34.831
Not that much money in the end.
00:37:35.262 --> 00:37:41.751
And so it is just about getting really clear about what your job is and isn't and not putting the focus on the wrong thing.
00:37:42.012 --> 00:37:46.172
People hiring an interior designer shouldn't be because of the trade discounts.
00:37:46.172 --> 00:37:48.731
There should be so much value there.
00:37:49.327 --> 00:38:00.086
That whether or not you pass through a trade discount, it has nothing to do with whether or not they're going to hire you, but it has everything to do with whether or not you're profitable at the end of the day.
00:38:00.106 --> 00:38:02.786
So it's not a huge impact on your client.
00:38:03.126 --> 00:38:10.867
It is a huge impact on your business, the decisions you make about each of these things and on your professionalism.
00:38:11.637 --> 00:38:15.806
You know, are you in business or aren't you?
00:38:16.536 --> 00:38:20.186
And that's really what this whole thing is about, this finance stuff.
00:38:20.271 --> 00:38:20.811
Right.
00:38:21.472 --> 00:38:23.751
I probably say at least once a week.
00:38:24.132 --> 00:38:25.632
You're not a nonprofit.
00:38:25.722 --> 00:38:26.161
Yeah,
00:38:26.862 --> 00:38:38.952
I mean, do they really think that, you know, a large store, like even something as simple as Walmart, do you really think that they're not making a profit?
00:38:38.952 --> 00:38:41.681
Do you really think that they're not getting wholesale?
00:38:41.992 --> 00:38:48.871
Discount rates on purchasing, you know, large quantities of product and then marking those up to you.
00:38:49.112 --> 00:38:54.836
You're not going into Walmart and asking them to sell that to you at cost.
00:38:54.943 --> 00:38:55.893
it would be ridiculous.
00:38:56.092 --> 00:39:00.293
No one would even, would even consider doing something like that.
00:39:01.052 --> 00:39:07.393
First of all, if that's the first question that your customer is asking when they come to you, that might not be the best fit customer.
00:39:08.043 --> 00:39:10.411
You know, because sometimes I'll get pushback.
00:39:10.630 --> 00:39:16.061
When I suggest that and, and they'll say, but they can go out and see that product.
00:39:16.090 --> 00:39:18.530
They can Google that product and see what the price is.
00:39:19.021 --> 00:39:26.751
And I've explained to them, look, if I was hiring a designer, I do not have time to go out and Google products.
00:39:27.876 --> 00:39:35.516
You may not be dealing with the right customer if that's what the customer is doing.
00:39:35.706 --> 00:39:46.436
How we present our invoices to our clients has a profound effect on if they feel like they're being nickel and dimed, or they need to question every single line item.
00:39:46.835 --> 00:39:56.755
Do you coach your clients on the formatting and communication of their invoices, or is that something more for somebody like myself,
00:39:58.295 --> 00:40:01.025
So we usually refer them to you for that.
00:40:01.295 --> 00:40:08.815
One of the areas where I recommend they not nickel and dime, and I get this question, Rebecca, multiple times a week.
00:40:08.896 --> 00:40:12.306
I literally have this conversation multiple times.
00:40:12.646 --> 00:40:14.286
Credit card processing
00:40:14.521 --> 00:40:14.920
Yup.
00:40:15.891 --> 00:40:28.210
The most successful designers we see are the ones who do not get caught up on having to pay the credit card processing fees.
00:40:30.121 --> 00:40:34.630
I would really love it if every one of your listeners would let that sink in.
00:40:35.010 --> 00:40:41.990
Do not get caught up on having, the expense of the credit card processing fees.
00:40:42.690 --> 00:40:48.775
I find so many designers who do not want to allow customers to pay with credit card.
00:40:49.536 --> 00:40:59.235
Because they, they see that that large number that they're collecting and it's a large amount and it's usually a percentage of that total amount.
00:40:59.545 --> 00:41:06.065
And I've even had some CPAs who will guide customers into reducing those processing
00:41:06.356 --> 00:41:06.385
What?
00:41:07.076 --> 00:41:07.436
So
00:41:08.351 --> 00:41:34.731
Yeah, yeah, I've had that conversation before, and, I remind them when you suddenly list that as a separate line item on your invoices or in your proposal, you are shining a bright spotlight on that one line item, and you are taking away from the overall project that you have built out for them, and suddenly all the focus goes down on that one number.
00:41:34.731 --> 00:41:34.771
Yeah.
00:41:35.655 --> 00:41:41.525
And there are various reasons why your clients may want to pay with credit card.
00:41:42.076 --> 00:41:46.655
You know, a spouse may want to hide the true expense of a design project.
00:41:46.655 --> 00:41:54.885
I hate to say that, but I've had this conversation with designers before who want to hide the true expense of a, of a design project from their spouse.
00:41:55.619 --> 00:41:58.358
Maybe they want to justify it by saying, I get rewards.
00:41:58.869 --> 00:42:05.719
points on my credit card or I get those, those airline miles, uh, and they will justify a family trip.
00:42:05.728 --> 00:42:09.429
Look, look, honey, we got to take this trip, you know, with these miles.
00:42:09.838 --> 00:42:22.079
Or maybe they just don't want to admit that they don't have, they may have plenty of, of income coming in to cover your design project, but maybe they just don't have that in readily available cash.
00:42:22.449 --> 00:42:28.434
Maybe they want the option to pay that off in two installments on their next two credit cards.
00:42:28.434 --> 00:42:31.693
Statements, you know, maybe they want to break it in half.
00:42:31.693 --> 00:42:40.023
So maybe they want to take 100, 000 project and they want to say, okay, I'm going to pay 50, 000 this month and 50, 000 the next month to the credit card company.
00:42:40.313 --> 00:42:42.653
They may not want to have that conversation with you.
00:42:42.974 --> 00:42:46.943
Do not make it difficult for your customers to pay you.
00:42:47.244 --> 00:42:49.293
You're at the one yard line.
00:42:50.443 --> 00:42:52.264
Why stop them right there?
00:42:52.268 --> 00:42:52.918
Yes.
00:42:53.298 --> 00:42:53.798
Yes.
00:42:53.838 --> 00:42:56.458
Oh, you are, you are preaching to the choir right now.
00:42:56.878 --> 00:43:07.268
And I'll tell you, I mean, I remember going through that and you're looking at those PayPal fees or Zelle fees or whatever the fees, you know, if you're up with a big processor, they're all around 3%.
00:43:07.918 --> 00:43:08.409
Okay.
00:43:08.409 --> 00:43:12.969
The way I look at it is through two lenses that really helped me psychologically.
00:43:12.969 --> 00:43:16.018
Number one is I just treat it like utility.
00:43:16.458 --> 00:43:18.219
You know, I can't get away with.
00:43:19.384 --> 00:43:23.164
Oh, here on my invoice, you're going to pay 5 percent of my rent this month.
00:43:23.224 --> 00:43:25.414
Like that would be weird to put on your invoice.
00:43:25.704 --> 00:43:28.003
You know, you're going to pay my phone bill for this month.
00:43:28.023 --> 00:43:30.114
That'd be weird to put on the invoice.
00:43:30.503 --> 00:43:31.824
So this is just a utility.
00:43:31.824 --> 00:43:33.074
It's a cost of doing business.
00:43:33.114 --> 00:43:37.713
Why in the world would I ever put that in front of my clients and put that in their head?
00:43:37.713 --> 00:43:44.853
And then the second thing was that I'm like, well, the bigger that number is the better I'm doing in business.
00:43:45.474 --> 00:43:47.063
So that felt really good.
00:43:47.583 --> 00:43:51.983
So it is a mentality shift, and it goes back to are you in business or not?
00:43:51.983 --> 00:43:55.764
Are you a business person or are you not a business person?
00:43:55.764 --> 00:43:58.673
And if you're gonna be a business person, you have to start thinking like one.
00:43:58.673 --> 00:44:05.003
yes, I literally said almost the exact same words you said about utilities just yesterday.
00:44:05.003 --> 00:44:09.184
Like, literally, you think about it, your liability insurance.
00:44:09.213 --> 00:44:12.134
As a designer, you need to have business liability insurance.
00:44:12.344 --> 00:44:24.094
You are not going to prorate that monthly charge out by the number of projects you have this month and say, okay, one line item on your invoice is for, you know, 2.
00:44:24.134 --> 00:44:28.014
50 for this monthly liability insurance that I have.
00:44:28.313 --> 00:44:31.923
Literally that's what you're doing with a credit card processing fee.
00:44:32.634 --> 00:44:34.963
Just build it into your.
00:44:35.179 --> 00:44:39.418
your cost of the project just like you build everything else in.
00:44:39.648 --> 00:44:45.679
You build the cost of your business phone in, your liability insurance, the softwares that you use.
00:44:46.358 --> 00:44:52.358
If you have 1099 contractors, you build all of that in to the cost of that project.
00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:54.818
Just build the credit card fee in.
00:44:55.244 --> 00:44:56.864
Regardless of how they pay.
00:44:57.403 --> 00:45:04.994
Plus, in some states, it is illegal to pass on those credit card processing fees to your end customer.
00:45:05.293 --> 00:45:13.324
In some merchant service agreement contracts that, that you basically check and say I accept, but nobody ever reads.
00:45:13.614 --> 00:45:21.184
In some of that fine print, you cannot make a difference between whether someone pays with cash or check versus credit card.
00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:23.619
So that's always my argument.
00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:25.099
You are the business owner.
00:45:25.159 --> 00:45:30.099
You get to make the decisions, whether they are good or bad decisions for your company.
00:45:30.418 --> 00:45:33.409
This, in my opinion, is a bad decision, but you're the business owner.
00:45:33.409 --> 00:45:34.898
You get to make the decision.
00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:35.518
yeah.
00:45:35.909 --> 00:45:44.623
Although I will add one more argument in our argument's favor, which is that if anybody is not after everything, Natalie and I just said, convinced that we're right.
00:45:45.494 --> 00:45:59.563
Just think about how you feel when you pay your cell phone bill, and it's so confusing because your bill is 70, but somehow your real bill is 110 because of this fee and that fee.
00:45:59.563 --> 00:46:01.103
It's the same thing that airlines are doing.
00:46:01.103 --> 00:46:02.914
It's the same thing that Airbnb is doing.
00:46:03.554 --> 00:46:05.143
And nobody likes it.
00:46:05.204 --> 00:46:11.193
So if we don't like it on those platforms in our day to day lives, why would we want to inflict that upon our clients?
00:46:12.528 --> 00:46:17.018
Yes, and going back to someone like Walmart, you don't see that.
00:46:17.188 --> 00:46:22.088
If you pay with credit card at Walmart, you're not given the option before you swap that card.
00:46:22.088 --> 00:46:31.018
They don't say, you know, your bill is a hundred dollars if you pay with cash or check, but we're going to tack on 3 percent if you use credit card.
00:46:31.278 --> 00:46:32.139
They don't do that.
00:46:32.509 --> 00:46:36.478
But I promise you They are covered for credit card processing fee.
00:46:36.789 --> 00:46:41.918
They end up at the end of the year with a substantial profit for their company.
00:46:43.059 --> 00:46:54.108
No, no designer ever gets caught up on the expense of their website design or their software they're using, their, their liability insurance.
00:46:54.184 --> 00:46:57.164
It's their, their monthly business cell phone bill.
00:46:57.523 --> 00:47:09.304
They don't get caught up on those expenses, but they get caught up because they feel like somehow, they would just be that much more profitable if no one ever used the credit card.
00:47:09.304 --> 00:47:12.833
But keep in mind, you may be deterring customers.
00:47:12.994 --> 00:47:14.434
Everything else is the same.
00:47:15.784 --> 00:47:24.164
And one designer is offering that customer to pay with credit card versus you are not allowing them to pay with credit card.
00:47:24.858 --> 00:47:26.489
You may have lost a customer.
00:47:26.628 --> 00:47:33.219
What if you lose that hundred, two hundred thousand dollar project Simply because you wouldn't take credit card.
00:47:33.349 --> 00:47:33.978
So silly.
00:47:35.148 --> 00:47:42.159
Well I feel like you may have already answered my final and most important question, but I'll give you the chance to have another answer too.
00:47:42.199 --> 00:47:49.278
So big picture, what makes you grind your teeth at night when you see designers do it?
00:47:49.289 --> 00:47:59.869
What do you really, really, really wish interior designers knew about bookkeeping that would make their life and your life as their bookkeeper easier?
00:48:01.018 --> 00:48:03.648
I will touch on one that we haven't talked about.
00:48:03.688 --> 00:48:07.449
It's not as frequent as, as getting hung up on processing fees.
00:48:07.878 --> 00:48:09.003
but one of the things that can potentially be detrimental to your business is co-mingling of funds.
00:48:09.003 --> 00:48:18.846
Now, I'm using, bookkeeping terms, so let me explain that for those who might not know.
00:48:19.246 --> 00:48:35.806
Basically, if you are trying to run your business out of your personal checking account, so everything is running through one account, versus having a dedicated, Business checking account and a dedicated business credit card account.
00:48:35.865 --> 00:48:40.306
Dedicated accounts that are completely separate from your personal.
00:48:40.556 --> 00:48:42.576
That is business 101.
00:48:42.585 --> 00:49:01.260
It doesn't matter if you're an interior designer, what I'm a designer, Industry of business you're in that is one of the first lessons that you need to learn as a business owner keep those separate It can Open you up to additional liability if you're not careful with that.
00:49:01.581 --> 00:49:05.880
So that's the legal reasoning for doing that.
00:49:06.210 --> 00:49:07.610
so keep that in mind.
00:49:08.041 --> 00:49:16.280
The challenge as a bookkeeper is I'm going to assume that everything that is running through your business is related to your business.
00:49:16.561 --> 00:49:37.543
So if you start going and buying groceries for your family, if you're purchase that with your business, credit card, it is going to potentially cost you more in services because if I'm having to fish out all the individual personal expenses, you've got co mingled with your business expenses.
00:49:37.943 --> 00:49:45.172
It's taking me and my team more time to do that, which means your fixed monthly rate is going to cost more.
00:49:45.753 --> 00:49:47.333
And there's just no way around that.
00:49:47.563 --> 00:49:47.853
Yeah.
00:49:47.853 --> 00:49:50.083
And again, this is just a decision you can make.
00:49:50.083 --> 00:49:56.592
You can show up to your bookkeeper with the proverbial shoebox full of receipts and say here, good luck.
00:49:57.333 --> 00:50:00.123
And that's totally normal actually.
00:50:00.402 --> 00:50:01.492
But it will cost you more.
00:50:01.902 --> 00:50:07.172
But I'm really glad you brought that up because that was a real important takeaway from me early on when I.
00:50:07.447 --> 00:50:11.967
Set up my company as a limited liability company, an LLC.
00:50:12.568 --> 00:50:14.827
And my advisor was very clear with me.
00:50:14.827 --> 00:50:17.538
He's like, we need to separate church and state here.
00:50:17.797 --> 00:50:21.367
You need to have your personal accounts and your business accounts.
00:50:21.708 --> 00:50:24.407
And he, he didn't talk to me from the bookkeeping lens.
00:50:24.407 --> 00:50:39.047
It was very much that liability lens of the whole point of having a limited liability company is that your company is seen as a separate responsible entity from you as a human.
00:50:39.547 --> 00:50:57.108
And every time you blur those lines between the company entity and you at the entity that is taking away and eroding that legal protection that in theory, you took on by choosing to have an LLC company in the first place.
00:50:57.628 --> 00:50:58.057
So.
00:50:58.123 --> 00:51:01.943
And, and it just makes the bookkeeping harder, so don't do it anyway.
00:51:02.329 --> 00:51:02.628
Yes.
00:51:02.688 --> 00:51:33.829
if you're, if you're more, apt to not commingle funds because I've said it's going to hurt your pocketbook, sometimes that immediate it's going to hit my pocketbook is more of a deterrence than The possibility of, of, of, you know, all of your assets being stripped away from you because you, you did not protect yourself You set up that limited liability company to begin with, there was a reason that was set up that way and all you're doing is exposing your company.
00:51:34.199 --> 00:51:47.726
You know, to potential liability and, and, and potentially exposing your personal as well setting up that LLC was to protect you from that, but you have to do your part in order to, maintain that protection.
00:51:48.846 --> 00:51:56.536
Well, obviously, we could talk for days about the intricacies of bookkeeping, but this has been absolutely wonderful.
00:51:56.576 --> 00:52:03.416
Is there anything in particular, after all of those gems and nuggets, that you would want to leave with our listeners today?
00:52:05.675 --> 00:52:22.405
So one of the fears I get from designers, and it surprises me that that this is the big concern when they first start talking to me, is that designers are often very concerned about the mess that their financials are.
00:52:22.748 --> 00:52:24.849
You're coming to me for bookkeeping services.
00:52:24.878 --> 00:52:28.099
I'm naturally going to assume that you have a hot mess.
00:52:29.768 --> 00:52:33.188
I am going to assume that you do not have it all together.
00:52:33.548 --> 00:52:35.559
Otherwise, why do you need me?
00:52:36.478 --> 00:52:52.304
So just like I'm not going to go through and And try to do a bang up job of interior design in my house before I hire a designer, it's okay to come to me with your mess.
00:52:52.653 --> 00:52:54.974
Trust me, it is not the worst I've seen.
00:52:55.724 --> 00:53:00.594
So that is, that is one of the biggest concerns that designers have.
00:53:02.003 --> 00:53:11.153
They are not concerned with the fact that they didn't file sales tax all of last year, but they are very concerned that I'm going to see the mess of their financials.
00:53:11.704 --> 00:53:13.384
So that's one of the things.
00:53:13.864 --> 00:53:26.157
Another thing that I would like to leave you is the fact that designers often tell me after we have that meeting I actually feel so much better just having this meeting with you.
00:53:27.364 --> 00:53:31.313
I finished a cleanup not long ago and it was one of the greatest compliments I ever got.
00:53:32.713 --> 00:53:43.253
Your team has brought a sense of calm to me that I have not felt throughout the entire, Lifetime of my business, and they've been in business for quite some time.
00:53:43.833 --> 00:53:51.653
their husband was in another industry entirely their husband was so stressed and they wanted their husband to have that same sense of calm.
00:53:51.724 --> 00:53:55.764
I said, no, but I can actually refer you to a great colleague who's in that industry.
00:53:56.023 --> 00:54:02.173
So I put them in touch and I talked to them recently and they said that your colleague is wonderful.
00:54:02.284 --> 00:54:06.733
We're moving forward with them that we're already feeling so much better about that too.
00:54:06.733 --> 00:54:17.188
So while it may be a hot mess right now If you will take the time and, and feel that you are able that your company, how do you know if you can afford it?
00:54:17.188 --> 00:54:18.688
So you don't even know what your profits are.
00:54:18.688 --> 00:54:19.298
Most of the time.
00:54:19.318 --> 00:54:25.469
That's what's amazing to me is I, I may not, I don't know if I can afford you what that's because you don't even know what you're making.
00:54:25.478 --> 00:54:28.789
How can you also know if you can afford to go to high point?
00:54:29.048 --> 00:54:31.318
How do you know if you can afford to invest?
00:54:31.418 --> 00:54:32.916
How did you make your first investment?
00:54:32.916 --> 00:54:38.248
in that conference that you've really been wanting to go to, or that new software that you would like to purchase for your company?
00:54:38.539 --> 00:54:42.489
Or, virtual assistant, or help with a junior designer?
00:54:42.668 --> 00:54:43.978
How do you know any of that?
00:54:43.998 --> 00:54:46.858
You don't have a clue how much money you are bringing in?
00:54:46.858 --> 00:54:49.039
You don't know how much money is going out?
00:54:49.039 --> 00:54:50.878
You don't know what your bottom line number is?
00:54:51.228 --> 00:54:54.123
So, You You know, we are not the cheapest.
00:54:54.224 --> 00:54:56.213
We are also not the most expensive.
00:54:56.963 --> 00:54:59.344
We are a fair price for what we offer.
00:54:59.614 --> 00:55:09.954
And, hopefully we can bring that sense of calm to everyone that we, that we meet with and that we deal with, because it's a very deserving industry.
00:55:10.949 --> 00:55:14.998
We work hard for the money we bring in, that is for sure.
00:55:14.998 --> 00:55:17.768
Oh
00:55:18.304 --> 00:55:20.824
working business owners I have ever seen.
00:55:21.003 --> 00:55:24.253
And sometimes they are working in heels.
00:55:25.164 --> 00:55:28.713
They are dressed to the nines, they are working in heels.
00:55:28.943 --> 00:55:35.393
I literally have a client who, they just put a brand new floor down for, a client.
00:55:35.764 --> 00:55:46.623
They were, they had cleaned that floor for a beautiful reveal, slipped and fell on that floor and ended up with a mild concussion.
00:55:47.184 --> 00:55:50.014
Guarantee you, guarantee you they had heels on.
00:55:52.619 --> 00:55:56.838
All right, well in our next podcast we'll be talking about fashion tips for safety.
00:55:57.443 --> 00:56:01.304
Brought to you by Natalie, the bookkeeper, but
00:56:01.483 --> 00:56:02.934
Trust me, you do not want that.
00:56:02.943 --> 00:56:04.364
obviously getting ahold of you.
00:56:04.364 --> 00:56:07.143
We'll all be in the show notes, but what's your website?
00:56:07.143 --> 00:56:08.364
Where can people find you?
00:56:09.983 --> 00:56:12.333
Yeah, so our website is vintagegrayllc.
00:56:12.333 --> 00:56:13.298
com.
00:56:13.298 --> 00:56:18.297
So gray gray is spelled with an e, so it's g r e y.
00:56:18.371 --> 00:56:23.972
Didn't think about the business name and having to give that website out numerous times.
00:56:25.001 --> 00:56:25.942
So think about that.
00:56:25.942 --> 00:56:29.222
If you're thinking about starting an interior design business, make it simple.
00:56:30.061 --> 00:56:31.731
But it's vintagegrayllc.
00:56:33.012 --> 00:56:41.851
com and from there you can easily schedule a complimentary consultation and just sit down and talk to me about your bookkeeping needs.
00:56:42.132 --> 00:56:49.032
That's usually the first step if you're interested in working with us is have that initial, consultation.
00:56:49.032 --> 00:56:50.697
It usually lasts about an hour.
00:56:50.996 --> 00:56:54.166
We will get on a virtual meeting face to face.
00:56:54.567 --> 00:56:57.617
And that way you see who you would be working with.
00:56:57.617 --> 00:56:59.297
I see who I would be working with.
00:56:59.737 --> 00:57:07.416
And, let's take a look at your financials and let me get a feel of what's going on in there sometimes it's helpful to see what you've got going on right now.
00:57:08.067 --> 00:57:22.697
so that I can give you a more accurate, proposal, uh, of what our services would be and hopefully I can at least bring some, some insight and maybe some calm for at least an hour of your busy day.
00:57:22.987 --> 00:57:28.536
We are on social media, on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram, and we do try to post daily.
00:57:29.382 --> 00:57:31.751
And some of those posts can even help you.
00:57:31.981 --> 00:57:34.132
Again, you don't know what you don't know.
00:57:34.161 --> 00:57:40.112
So simple things like for designers, so I'll give this little nugget of information here at the end.
00:57:40.472 --> 00:57:45.842
So say at the end of the project, you want to, you want to purchase a really impressive gift for that customer.
00:57:46.072 --> 00:57:53.192
As a thank you for doing business with them, as a thank you for referring them to future projects or doing follow up work with them.
00:57:53.552 --> 00:57:59.132
the challenge is you're limited, on what is deductible from a tax standpoint.
00:57:59.311 --> 00:58:07.771
You could spend any amount of money you want to on that gift, but keep in mind you may be limited 25 per client per year.
00:58:08.311 --> 00:58:18.467
That is so painful for designers because 25 So, you know, the cost is usually very minimal compared to what you would typically spend sometimes for these larger projects.
00:58:18.786 --> 00:58:19.757
And that's okay.
00:58:19.757 --> 00:58:26.166
You can spend you know, 100 plus, uh, for a client to give them a really nice, impressive gift at the end.
00:58:26.427 --> 00:58:33.547
Just know only 25 of that is going to count as tax deductible for your business at the end of the year.
00:58:33.757 --> 00:58:38.476
The rest can still be shown as a business expense, but it's not going to be a deduction.
00:58:38.527 --> 00:59:06.257
Those are some of the types of posts that we might have out there on LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook that you might not have thought of and might not know to ask or might not know to research further, So if you don't feel like you can afford bookkeeping services or CPA services or CFO services, Initially, when you're first getting started, maybe some of those posts might help you and guide you to know what to research further.
00:59:06.907 --> 00:59:08.226
Thank you so much.
00:59:08.257 --> 00:59:09.007
Everybody.
00:59:09.016 --> 00:59:13.646
Vintage gray, Natalie, the bookkeeper, For our actual industry.
00:59:13.697 --> 00:59:19.086
I love that you have chosen a niche so that you are an expert in what we do.
00:59:19.126 --> 00:59:21.407
Thank you so much for your time today, Natalie.
00:59:22.152 --> 00:59:22.891
Thank you so much.
00:59:22.891 --> 00:59:24.121
It was a pleasure to be here.
00:59:25.648 --> 00:59:28.289
Well folks, that's it for today's round of stuff.
00:59:28.289 --> 00:59:29.969
Interior designers need to know.
00:59:30.298 --> 00:59:33.958
Did you have an aha moment or a favorite takeaway from today's episode?
00:59:34.259 --> 00:59:37.588
Come find me on Instagram at be seriously happy.
00:59:37.588 --> 00:59:38.668
And tell me what you learned.
00:59:39.099 --> 00:59:45.878
Were you inspired by the fact that Natalie, so bravely leaned into a narrow niche and feel ready to target a tribe of your own.
00:59:46.239 --> 00:59:51.998
Ask me about my nail, your niche course, it's now available as a self study course for just 350 bucks.
00:59:52.028 --> 00:59:53.168
As of this recording.
00:59:53.588 --> 00:59:56.349
That's 500 less than the cost of the life course.
00:59:56.409 --> 00:59:58.688
And you can complete it at your own pace.
00:59:59.168 --> 01:00:00.188
Last, but not least.
01:00:00.219 --> 01:00:05.708
Please let your interior design colleagues know about this podcast so we can all learn and succeed together.
01:00:06.128 --> 01:00:09.998
Until next time, may your design biz make you seriously happy?
