How to Be a Clutch Communicator Under Pressure with Jen Mueller

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Carol Cox:
When the stakes are high,

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whether it's on stage or in a media

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interview. How can you stay calm,

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clear and confident?

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My guest today is Jen Mueller,

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a veteran sports broadcaster of the Seattle

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Seahawks and the Seattle Mariners.

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And she's giving us her tips on this episode

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of the Speaking Your Brand podcast.

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More and more women are making an impact by

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starting businesses, running for office and

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speaking up for what matters.

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With my background as a TV political analyst,

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entrepreneur, and speaker,

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I interview and coach purpose driven women to

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shape their brands, grow their companies,

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and become recognized as influencers in their

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field. This is speaking your brand,

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your place to learn how to persuasively

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communicate your message to your audience.

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Hi there and welcome to the Speaking Your

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Brand podcast. I'm your host,

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Carol Cox. Have you ever had one of those

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moments where all eyes are suddenly on you

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and your brain decides now is the perfect

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time to forget every word you were going to

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say. Whether it's a big presentation,

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a media interview, or even a meeting.

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How we communicate under pressure can make or

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break how we're perceived as leaders.

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That's why I'm so excited about today's

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conversation with my guest,

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Jen Mueller. Jen is a veteran sports

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broadcaster on the sidelines for the Seattle

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Seahawks and the Seattle Mariners,

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and she spent over 25 years covering some of

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the highest stakes environments imaginable.

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She's also the founder of Talk Sporty to Me.

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I love that name, where she teaches

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professionals how to communicate with

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confidence, clarity and composure no matter

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the situation. In our conversation,

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Jen and I talk about what it means to be a

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clutch communicator, how to use those high

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pressure moments to showcase your expertise

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instead of hiding from them.

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How to prepare for spontaneity.

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Yes, that is possible.

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And how small everyday interactions can train

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you for the big stage.

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Now, I've also spent the past 20 years on the

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TV news during election seasons,

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so I know what it's like to be live and not

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know what's going to happen next or what

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you'll be asked. And I share in this episode

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a story of what happened when I was asked a

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question and I just totally froze,

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but how I handled it.

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So if you've ever found yourself thinking,

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I wish I could stay calm,

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clear and confident when the heat is on.

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This episode is for you!

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Jen, welcome to the Speaking Your Brand

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podcast.

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Jen Mueller:
Thank you. This is going to be a fun

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conversation. I like it when two media

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members get together because I feel like I'm

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a little less on the hot seat,

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you know? Okay, like, you get me.

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Carol Cox:
I get you. And trust me,

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I have my own stories to share about things

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because those are the ones that stick in your

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mind, right?

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Jen Mueller:
Yes. Yes they are.

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Carol Cox:
All right. So you have you spent a lot of

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years reporting from the sidelines?

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First tell me, how did that even come about?

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Like, how do you get to be a reporter on the

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sidelines of these big professional sports?

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Jen Mueller:
You know what? Mine is a little bit of an

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unconventional path, and I call them bubble

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gum moments. All of the little things that I

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was doing in the dark behind the scenes to

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eventually be considered on air talent.

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I was never hired to be,

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um, on TV. I never applied for the job of the

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sideline reporter for the Seahawks.

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What I am by heart, by nature,

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and I think at heart is a producer.

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So I spent a lot of years watching people on

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TV and writing for people on TV,

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developing my own style,

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learning by watching them,

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and then just positioning myself as somebody

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who could step in and do the job of the on

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air part.

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Carol Cox:
All right. So then so you get this,

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this opportunity to be on the sidelines to

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report what's going on in the games.

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So what what is that like to be there on the

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silence. Obviously, there's a lot going on,

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right? The game's going on. All the players

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are there, the coaches, the people in the

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stands. Like, tell us what that environment

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is like.

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Jen Mueller:
An NFL game is electric.

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It does not matter where you are now.

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They happen to be just a little bit more

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electric in Seattle because the crowd at

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Lumen Field is unreal,

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but it is sensory overload from being so

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close to the action and seeing how physically

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imposing and strong and powerful these guys

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are to hearing everything from the stands.

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And the thing about being on the sidelines,

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I love watching the game there.

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You can only see a very small part of the

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game, and that's where like the communication

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and the questions and how you piece together

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the story of the game is very different than

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if you were watching from home or watching

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from the press box, or even from the 200

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level in a stadium, because you've got a

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different vantage point than I do.

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And so I constantly feel like I am stumped on

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the sidelines and am trying to overcome that

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in the conversations I have during

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interviews.

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Carol Cox:
So then tell us what it's like to do an

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interview then.

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So obviously you have to kind of tune out

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everything else that's going on around you to

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focus on the person that you're interviewing

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now. Do you already have some questions that

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you're running in your mind beforehand? Like,

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tell us a little bit about the prep and then

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what happens during the interview.

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Jen Mueller:
Yeah, I should have grabbed my pages of notes

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that I take during an NFL game,

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because when you're on the sidelines, you're

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kind of on your own.

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I've got my crew in the booth,

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but they are dealing with their own,

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you know, game calls, so they don't have time

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to look things up just for me.

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So I keep just a running tally of both plays

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and questions, and I will start writing down

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questions I might want to ask from the very

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first play of the game,

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because you don't know what's going to end up

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to be most important at the end.

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The other part of my job is the expectation

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is that I will get between 4 and 6

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interviews, Use regardless of the outcome.

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If you need 4 to 6 interviews,

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you can't be asking the same four questions

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over and over and over again.

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You've got to tailor those questions to the

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person, to the position that they play,

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to the time of the game that you're talking

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about. And so I constantly have kind of these

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running lists and various points in the game

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that I'll start compiling that so that I can

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be very concise and precise when I'm doing

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those interviews.

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Carol Cox:
And also, I assume you want the interviews to

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be interesting for the the people who are

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watching. You can't just like, like boring,

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dull questions that everyone always asks.

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Jen Mueller:
Well, and see, you just hit the nail on the

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head right there. If I can guess what your

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post-game question will be.

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And I'm sitting on my couch and I only

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watched five minutes of that game.

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There was probably a better way to ask that

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question. And one of the things I realized

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very early on, and I know that you'll

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appreciate this.

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Our questions are part of the story as

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compared to my counterparts who work in print

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media, right? Who work for magazines,

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who work for the digital side,

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who work for newspapers.

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They can ask whatever they question they

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want, and their audience never hears it.

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But my audience always hears the question

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that I ask. And so it's my job to make that

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question interesting, but also to make sure

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that I am drawing out the very best piece of

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information without tap dancing around and

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taking, you know, forever to get to the heart

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of what it is that we're talking about.

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Carol Cox:
Yeah, I can imagine that is it's a delicate

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dance, and I assume that you got better at it

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as you went along.

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You know, the first few games versus after

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you've been doing it for years.

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Jen Mueller:
Yeah, I've done this now.

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I've been in sports broadcasting 25 years,

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17 on the Seahawks sidelines.

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And you know, they don't really teach you how

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to ask questions in college.

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You know, they they teach you the very

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technical aspects of broadcasting.

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And that's very helpful.

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But if you are sent out there to ask

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questions and to do an interview initially,

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your standard is going to be too low.

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In fact, I think a lot of standards are too

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low when it comes to asking questions,

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because we assume that if we get an answer

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that it was a good enough question.

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And that's not true, because most people are

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kind enough and considerate enough to give

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you an answer, whether it's a good one,

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the right one, the one that you were looking

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for, that is an entirely different story.

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And so what I have gotten very good at is

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asking very specific questions.

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There is only one answer to that question.

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And my athletes learn to trust me because

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they know they are the ones that have that

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answer. Right. I'm not trying to play this

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like gotcha game.

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I just want you to drop your guard and tell

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me what happened on that play in the third

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quarter, where you allowed them to convert on

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third and 12.

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Carol Cox:
I love it. Now, I grew up watching football

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because my dad and I, we would watch it,

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you know, on the weekends. So I loved it.

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I don't watch it as much as as I used to,

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but it is a lot of fun.

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So that is so cool.

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I have not been into an NFL game ever in my

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life, and that is something that's on my list

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because I know how what an incredible

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experience it would be.

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Jen Mueller:
It really is like you'll be talking about it

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for forever because every sporting event is

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an event, right?

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There's food, there's entertainment, there's

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people, there's a social aspect.

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So whether you remember the details of the

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game or not, boy, are there so many talking

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points off of an NFL game.

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Carol Cox:
All right, Jen, let's talk about this idea of

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a clutch communicator.

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This is a phrase that you brought to me for

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this interview. So what does that mean to be

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a clutch communicator and why is that

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important not only for reporters,

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you know, on the sidelines or wherever they

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happen to be, but for those of us who are

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just doing presentations and panels and

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podcast interviews.

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Jen Mueller:
Yeah, it's knowing that you are prepared for

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any moment and that the uncertainty is

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Minimized by the confidence you have in your

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skills, right? Every time we have a

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conversation or we ask a question,

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we're really leaving things up to chance.

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I might think I know the answer,

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and I have a pretty good idea of how a

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conversation is going to flow.

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But in the back of my mind,

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before I have entered this conversation,

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whether it is an interview that I am

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conducting or where I'm in this position,

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I know a few things that I can do to minimize

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my doubts and like the self-consciousness

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that I might have, I know how to pivot out of

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a of a challenging situation,

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or when I've forgotten a word or lose my

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train of thought.

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And it's those sorts of things that make you

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clutch. It's not saying the right thing every

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time. It's knowing that you have something to

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say and being confident enough in that

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ability.

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Carol Cox:
Now, Jen, I know that a lot of the women that

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we work with and a lot of women who listen to

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this podcast, they like to be very prepared,

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whether it again is for a presentation,

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a talk. That they're delivering or a podcast

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interview. And that is great.

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Obviously we want to be prepared.

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We want to to make sure that we are providing

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value to whoever is listening to us.

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But I feel like there are also a lot of us

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who get very worried about getting a question

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that they haven't prepared for,

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and they almost they sort themselves out with

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thinking that that's going to happen whether

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it happens or not. So can you tell us a

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little bit about what is going on there and

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how how can we help ourselves with that?

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Jen Mueller:
Well, you've got to remember that you're the

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expert. The reason that you are fielding that

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question is because you have some version of

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the answer. Most of the time,

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people are not looking for the hard,

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fast, truest answer that you could possibly

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give. What they're looking for is insight and

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perspective. So you already have that.

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If you try to psych yourself out by thinking

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about all the different ways you are not the

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right person to be answering this question,

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then try this.

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In my experience now, I can't dispute that

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because in your experience,

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whether that is 25 years,

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two years, you know, one month on this

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project, six months is the CEO.

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That's your experience.

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And now we have framed this in a way where,

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okay, I am seeing you as the expert and you

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are giving me insight and perspective based

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on that experience.

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Carol Cox:
Right? Like I as I say,

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AI is not the ultimate expert.

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It can tell you.

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Google search used to.

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Now you know, chatbots can tell you anything

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you want to know about.

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Anything you ask, whether it hallucinates or

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not is another. You know,

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we'll put that to the side.

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But to your point, your audiences want to

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know, well, how did you experience that?

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What did you learn from that?

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What did you what have you gained?

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What are all these lessons and insights and

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perspectives you've gained because of this

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work that you've been doing for however many

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years. Not like reciting off of a dictionary

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or encyclopedia.

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All the facts that someone could learn about

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whatever the topic is.

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Jen Mueller:
And it's okay to ask a clarifying question,

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right? I mean, you don't want to ask a

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question to every question,

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right? That gets a little bit tedious,

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but it's okay to say, hey,

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why do you ask? I want to make sure I give

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you the best possible answer.

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Or when people say something like,

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hey Jen, tell me how you got to where you are

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in your career. My first question back to

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00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,840
them will be, what specific part would you

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00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:32,920
like to know about, or what would be most

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helpful for you to hear?

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Now, I can be confident that I am giving you

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the best possible answer.

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It's okay to do that. The guys do that in the

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locker room. To me, sometimes if I say

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something that is slightly too general,

358
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they'll say, oh, did you mean on that drive

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in the third quarter? Yep.

360
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That's exactly what I meant.

361
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Nobody thinks twice about that.

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We're just having the conversation.

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Station.

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Carol Cox:
Yes. Yeah. Because and it's thinking of it as

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a conversation. I like to say that even

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public speaking, even when you're speaking

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from a stage, I liken it,

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you're still having a conversation with the

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audience. Now, the audience is not

370
00:14:08,900 --> 00:14:11,820
necessarily talking back to you every minute

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like you would in a regular conversation, but

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you're still sensing their energy.

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Where are they getting you? Where are they

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maybe a little bit lost or a little bit

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confused, and then adjusting as needed based

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on what you're getting back from the

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00:14:23,860 --> 00:14:24,660
audience?

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Jen Mueller:
Yeah. And it's trusting yourself in

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interactions. Right.

380
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So if it goes back to your original question,

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00:14:29,940 --> 00:14:32,060
if you can trust yourself to make small talk

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00:14:32,060 --> 00:14:34,580
with a stranger, you can trust yourself to

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00:14:34,620 --> 00:14:36,460
answer questions from an audience.

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Carol Cox:
Yes, I love that.

385
00:14:38,460 --> 00:14:40,300
Now, Jen, you talk about this idea of

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00:14:40,300 --> 00:14:41,980
asserting your presence.

387
00:14:41,980 --> 00:14:43,780
Can you tell me what does that mean?

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Like what does it mean to assert your

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00:14:45,500 --> 00:14:48,020
presence? And how has that shown up for you?

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00:14:48,740 --> 00:14:50,700
Jen Mueller:
When I first got into sports,

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they were, let's say, allowing women to work

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in sports broadcasting,

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00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:57,840
but they weren't really encouraging or

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00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,240
supporting. They really didn't know how to to

395
00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,480
do that. And so it was up to me to grab those

396
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:05,720
really small moments.

397
00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,640
I knew that I wasn't going to get an hour to

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00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:10,120
make a great impression.

399
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,720
I was going to be able to show up to a press

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00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,280
conference and ask one question.

401
00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,200
Maybe it was just sitting in the press

402
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,720
conference was my way of being present and

403
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,720
asserting my presence.

404
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,120
And we overlook these little moments all the

405
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,240
time throughout the day. But I would show up

406
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,240
and I would make sure that I had on a

407
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,200
different color blazer that day.

408
00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:35,600
Right? So instead of wearing black and

409
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,480
everybody's wearing black, I've got a teal

410
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,040
green blazer on so that when my hand goes up,

411
00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,320
I'm the one that is going to get called on

412
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:43,480
when I get called on.

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00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,880
I've got the one question that it is that I

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00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,640
wanted to ask, and I will deliver that with

415
00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,880
precision and with a confidence in my tone

416
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:53,600
that forces you to think,

417
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:55,660
oh, that was a good question.

418
00:15:55,660 --> 00:15:58,700
Or ah, she was prepared for that moment.

419
00:15:58,700 --> 00:16:01,580
And it's not about how many words you say,

420
00:16:01,780 --> 00:16:05,460
it's about how you choose to show up and how

421
00:16:05,460 --> 00:16:07,940
consistent you are with showing up.

422
00:16:08,100 --> 00:16:10,500
People underestimate that part of it too,

423
00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:12,860
right? If you were in a space where you were

424
00:16:12,860 --> 00:16:14,460
seeing the same people all the time,

425
00:16:14,460 --> 00:16:17,420
this is a huge advantage in how you want to

426
00:16:17,460 --> 00:16:19,300
show up and assert your presence,

427
00:16:19,300 --> 00:16:21,860
whether that is with a smile squaring your

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00:16:21,860 --> 00:16:23,940
shoulders before you walk in the room,

429
00:16:23,980 --> 00:16:27,260
being very precise in how you greet somebody

430
00:16:27,260 --> 00:16:28,820
or engage in small talk,

431
00:16:28,980 --> 00:16:32,260
and just the way that you show up that is

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00:16:32,260 --> 00:16:33,580
asserting your presence.

433
00:16:34,220 --> 00:16:37,380
Carol Cox:
What would you say to listeners who are like,

434
00:16:37,380 --> 00:16:39,860
well, I don't really feel like I have a very

435
00:16:39,860 --> 00:16:41,980
assertive presence. You know, my personality

436
00:16:42,020 --> 00:16:44,540
tends to be a little bit on the shyer side.

437
00:16:44,700 --> 00:16:48,140
I don't really I don't have a big voice or,

438
00:16:48,260 --> 00:16:50,660
you know, I don't really like taking up a lot

439
00:16:50,700 --> 00:16:52,620
of space, but they still enjoy speaking.

440
00:16:53,340 --> 00:16:55,040
What are some strategies or tips that could

441
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:55,640
help them.

442
00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,280
Jen Mueller:
It isn't about being somebody that you're

443
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:03,480
not. It's about maximizing where you see your

444
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,880
strengths, right? And maybe starting with the

445
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,400
smallest like measure of success to build

446
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:10,680
your confidence in that.

447
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,280
So my smallest measure of success every time

448
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,040
I walk into a locker room is how many guys

449
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,880
say hello. And it's always my goal to get

450
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,160
five hellos when I walk into a locker room or

451
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,640
clubhouse. Now, I am a typically very

452
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,200
outgoing personality.

453
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,720
You put me in a locker room with 60 plus

454
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:30,520
guys, all of whom are bigger,

455
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,240
faster, stronger, some of them louder and

456
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,320
more boisterous. Boisterous than I am.

457
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:37,560
And that's enough to make me go,

458
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,800
oh my gosh, what am I doing here some days?

459
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,160
You know, like the days that you're just not

460
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,680
feeling it. And so if I've got a really small

461
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,280
measure of success and all I have to do is

462
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,800
say hi back, I can do that.

463
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:52,400
And that is showing up.

464
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:53,960
Everybody can say hi or hello.

465
00:17:54,460 --> 00:17:56,660
We skip over it a lot of times when we're too

466
00:17:56,660 --> 00:17:58,260
busy, which is why it's a win.

467
00:17:58,460 --> 00:18:00,700
But start with something like that.

468
00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:02,340
Just smile at somebody.

469
00:18:02,340 --> 00:18:06,100
You would be shocked at how far smile goes.

470
00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:08,980
And I know because I get feedback from that

471
00:18:08,980 --> 00:18:11,460
all the time from guys in the locker room.

472
00:18:11,540 --> 00:18:13,340
But we skip past that in business all the

473
00:18:13,340 --> 00:18:15,260
time because we take it for granted or we're

474
00:18:15,260 --> 00:18:16,500
not tracking it.

475
00:18:16,540 --> 00:18:18,660
If you start tracking those things,

476
00:18:18,660 --> 00:18:21,220
you would be surprised at just how you were

477
00:18:21,220 --> 00:18:24,260
showing up or how you can use those moments

478
00:18:24,260 --> 00:18:25,980
to show up even better.

479
00:18:26,980 --> 00:18:30,780
Carol Cox:
Jen, how have you handled any sexism that has

480
00:18:30,780 --> 00:18:33,020
come up and not necessarily directly with

481
00:18:33,020 --> 00:18:34,700
people you have interacted with,

482
00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:36,700
but maybe even online?

483
00:18:36,900 --> 00:18:39,180
I remember when I've been doing election

484
00:18:39,180 --> 00:18:41,300
coverage on the news for a long time,

485
00:18:41,540 --> 00:18:43,580
and when this was during in the during the

486
00:18:43,580 --> 00:18:46,340
2016 election cycle, which we know was the

487
00:18:46,340 --> 00:18:48,420
start of very unusual politics.

488
00:18:48,420 --> 00:18:50,700
And so at the time, the news station would

489
00:18:50,940 --> 00:18:53,540
livestream what the news segments to their

490
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:55,640
Facebook page. That was really big at the

491
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,280
time. Facebook's would be their Facebook

492
00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,680
Live, and of course all the comments would

493
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,000
come in. There are no comments of substance,

494
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,600
but their comments about me being a woman.

495
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,280
So I just ignored them because I'm like,

496
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:07,800
whatever. I don't know these people and I'm

497
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:09,680
not going to read the comments,

498
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,240
but I'm just curious, have you what have you

499
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,360
experienced and how have you handled it?

500
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:17,800
Jen Mueller:
I have experienced various forms of that over

501
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,920
the years. Again, when you're a woman in an

502
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:22,880
NFL locker room 30 years ago,

503
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,160
that is a very different experience than

504
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:26,480
being in there today.

505
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:28,680
For a long time I ignored the comments,

506
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:30,720
and I have worked with some really awesome

507
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,040
people who came to my defense,

508
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,760
or guys who have been awesome to work with.

509
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,440
That helped build my credibility and my

510
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,400
reputation among the fans.

511
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,680
I did not engage with most of those people

512
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:45,120
online for years.

513
00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:48,680
It has only been in the last 3 to 4 years

514
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,720
where I feel comfortable enough not only with

515
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,620
my position as I've got enough experience

516
00:19:55,620 --> 00:19:59,460
under my belt, but also I am comfortable with

517
00:19:59,460 --> 00:20:01,020
my voice in this space.

518
00:20:01,220 --> 00:20:03,100
I'm comfortable with saying,

519
00:20:03,900 --> 00:20:06,940
I don't like to hear every man talk about

520
00:20:06,940 --> 00:20:09,020
sports, like it's okay if you don't want

521
00:20:09,020 --> 00:20:10,300
women to talk about sports,

522
00:20:10,300 --> 00:20:12,300
but you make the assumption, I want every man

523
00:20:12,300 --> 00:20:13,540
to talk about sports.

524
00:20:13,820 --> 00:20:15,780
That's not necessarily true either.

525
00:20:15,820 --> 00:20:18,580
Now, that's about as combative as I will get,

526
00:20:18,580 --> 00:20:20,420
and I will just kind of point things out

527
00:20:20,460 --> 00:20:22,980
gently. Right. The assumptions that get made,

528
00:20:23,380 --> 00:20:25,420
um, I do call people out,

529
00:20:25,420 --> 00:20:29,620
but mostly because it's harmful to other

530
00:20:29,620 --> 00:20:31,060
women in the industry,

531
00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:32,980
right? Whether I can take it or not is

532
00:20:32,980 --> 00:20:35,300
irrelevant, but it's harmful to other people

533
00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:37,380
that I work with. And so now,

534
00:20:37,380 --> 00:20:39,940
being at this stage of my career in my life,

535
00:20:40,100 --> 00:20:41,900
I feel like it's easier to speak up for

536
00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:43,500
people and to just kind of point out,

537
00:20:43,540 --> 00:20:45,180
hey, maybe you didn't think about it from

538
00:20:45,180 --> 00:20:46,820
this point of view. Uh,

539
00:20:46,820 --> 00:20:48,620
and I'll pull back the curtain as much as I

540
00:20:48,620 --> 00:20:50,940
possibly can on whatever it is that they are

541
00:20:50,940 --> 00:20:53,640
commenting on. Um, but yeah,

542
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,040
that is that is one of the parts of the job

543
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:57,800
that is frustrating.

544
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,160
Some nights at the end of a long night or a

545
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:01,960
long homestand or a long game.

546
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:02,560
Yes.

547
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:04,560
Carol Cox:
Well, Jen, thank you for sharing that. And

548
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:05,960
this is why I asked this question,

549
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,360
because I want more women to understand that

550
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,640
it's it's normal was the wrong word.

551
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:12,760
But it happens.

552
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,960
And not to feel alone or isolated or like

553
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,800
they they don't have someone to turn to if,

554
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,400
if they are feeling this way,

555
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,520
that it happens. Unfortunately, to many of us

556
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,800
in the public. I like to say women who have a

557
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:27,440
public presence and a public voice.

558
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,640
Eventually you're going to get some type of

559
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,600
feedback related to that that you're not

560
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,920
necessarily going to enjoy and is probably

561
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,040
unfounded, but just know that you're not

562
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,720
alone. And I like to make sure I have my

563
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,240
circle of women, women friends right to turn

564
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,880
to, to be like, okay, that is a whole that's

565
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:45,880
like my public facing persona.

566
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,480
And but but here is, here is what matters to

567
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:48,840
me.

568
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:51,840
Jen Mueller:
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

569
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:52,360
Yeah.

570
00:21:52,630 --> 00:21:54,270
Carol Cox:
Well, Jen, let's talk about,

571
00:21:54,430 --> 00:21:56,630
uh, situations that didn't necessarily go the

572
00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:58,510
way that you wanted. I know I have had my

573
00:21:58,510 --> 00:21:59,710
share of those. I like to say,

574
00:21:59,710 --> 00:22:00,950
if you put in enough reps,

575
00:22:00,950 --> 00:22:03,110
you're gonna have those times where things

576
00:22:03,110 --> 00:22:05,070
are just like, no, I didn't that didn't go

577
00:22:05,110 --> 00:22:06,630
the way that I wanted. Do you have anything

578
00:22:06,630 --> 00:22:07,630
that comes to mind?

579
00:22:07,990 --> 00:22:10,150
Jen Mueller:
Oh, I have a handful of things,

580
00:22:10,150 --> 00:22:13,910
but I'll tell you my job for 19 years on the

581
00:22:13,910 --> 00:22:16,430
Mariners broadcast was to do the walk off

582
00:22:16,430 --> 00:22:18,190
interviews after wins.

583
00:22:18,190 --> 00:22:19,790
And some of them are, I'm going to say,

584
00:22:19,830 --> 00:22:20,950
uneventful, right?

585
00:22:20,990 --> 00:22:22,670
The game was already decided in like the

586
00:22:22,670 --> 00:22:23,830
sixth or seventh inning,

587
00:22:23,830 --> 00:22:25,710
so there's no real drama at the end of the

588
00:22:25,710 --> 00:22:29,550
game. Those generally go according to plan.

589
00:22:30,270 --> 00:22:33,390
It's the ones where it truly is a walk off.

590
00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:36,030
Like they hit the game winning home run in

591
00:22:36,030 --> 00:22:37,230
the bottom of the ninth.

592
00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:39,630
Because now here's what's going to happen.

593
00:22:39,630 --> 00:22:41,270
I will be in the middle of some sort of

594
00:22:41,270 --> 00:22:44,870
celebration, and it probably includes a very

595
00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:47,630
cold bucket of ice water or Gatorade.

596
00:22:47,910 --> 00:22:50,630
And so while I am trying to dodge Gatorade,

597
00:22:50,630 --> 00:22:53,010
I'm trying to ask questions and keep it a

598
00:22:53,010 --> 00:22:55,730
secret and tune out all of the noise that's

599
00:22:55,730 --> 00:22:57,530
happening in the stadium while looking at the

600
00:22:57,530 --> 00:22:58,610
television camera.

601
00:22:58,770 --> 00:23:00,730
And while I dodged most of them,

602
00:23:00,730 --> 00:23:03,650
I did get squarely hit with a few buckets of

603
00:23:03,690 --> 00:23:06,650
Gatorade. And I don't care how much you

604
00:23:06,650 --> 00:23:09,330
prepare for that interview, it is so cold.

605
00:23:09,530 --> 00:23:11,530
And quite honestly, the very first thing I'm

606
00:23:11,530 --> 00:23:13,410
thinking when it happens is what does my hair

607
00:23:13,450 --> 00:23:15,690
look like? And is my makeup running down my

608
00:23:15,690 --> 00:23:18,170
face? Right. So now I'm totally distracted.

609
00:23:18,770 --> 00:23:21,610
But in those moments, you're still on TV.

610
00:23:21,650 --> 00:23:23,690
It is still being broadcast in front of

611
00:23:23,730 --> 00:23:26,290
thousands of people in the stadium at that

612
00:23:26,290 --> 00:23:29,090
moment. And so you've got to regroup really

613
00:23:29,090 --> 00:23:31,130
quick. Finish that up and make sure that the

614
00:23:31,130 --> 00:23:32,930
focus stays on the athlete that you're

615
00:23:32,930 --> 00:23:35,770
talking to. The thing that I have learned is

616
00:23:35,770 --> 00:23:39,730
to practice for distractions and to state the

617
00:23:39,730 --> 00:23:42,010
obvious about whatever is happening.

618
00:23:42,330 --> 00:23:45,010
So the bucket of Gatorade is really cold.

619
00:23:45,010 --> 00:23:46,610
It will take your breath away,

620
00:23:46,610 --> 00:23:48,810
and it will cause you to forget everything

621
00:23:48,810 --> 00:23:50,050
that you were about to say.

622
00:23:50,530 --> 00:23:53,030
I'm not going to pretend like it's not the

623
00:23:53,030 --> 00:23:54,270
case, right?

624
00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:56,230
I will say when I need to regroup.

625
00:23:56,670 --> 00:23:58,430
Wow, that was cold.

626
00:23:58,630 --> 00:24:00,950
Wow. Let's get back on track with this.

627
00:24:00,950 --> 00:24:03,150
I'm just buying myself a little bit of time

628
00:24:03,150 --> 00:24:05,430
to call my heart rate and to get back to it,

629
00:24:05,430 --> 00:24:07,150
but everybody just saw it,

630
00:24:07,150 --> 00:24:08,950
so I'm not afraid of acknowledging it.

631
00:24:08,950 --> 00:24:11,110
And we shouldn't be afraid of acknowledging

632
00:24:11,110 --> 00:24:13,470
when something doesn't go according to plan

633
00:24:13,790 --> 00:24:16,470
in a conversation or an interview or a

634
00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:19,310
presentation, it makes you human.

635
00:24:19,310 --> 00:24:21,070
It level sets everything,

636
00:24:21,070 --> 00:24:23,990
and it gives you a chance to calm down and to

637
00:24:24,030 --> 00:24:26,430
reset from wherever you want to start.

638
00:24:27,070 --> 00:24:28,590
Carol Cox:
Yeah, that's really helpful.

639
00:24:28,670 --> 00:24:30,790
Just. Yeah. And acknowledging,

640
00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:32,630
like you said, everyone could see it.

641
00:24:32,670 --> 00:24:35,430
It's not it's not something that you can just

642
00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:36,630
pretend didn't happen.

643
00:24:36,630 --> 00:24:38,430
And so like kind of acknowledge it also just

644
00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:40,550
kind of gets it off of their mind too,

645
00:24:40,590 --> 00:24:42,670
because you've closed the loop, so to speak,

646
00:24:42,910 --> 00:24:44,630
in their mind. And then you can go on.

647
00:24:44,950 --> 00:24:46,390
I remember that, you know,

648
00:24:46,430 --> 00:24:48,670
I've done lots of live TV and unlike you,

649
00:24:48,670 --> 00:24:50,790
I'm the one answering the questions from the

650
00:24:50,790 --> 00:24:53,130
reporter. So obviously we have the topics

651
00:24:53,130 --> 00:24:54,650
that are probably going to be for that

652
00:24:54,650 --> 00:24:56,370
segment and the segments are short,

653
00:24:56,410 --> 00:24:57,770
you know, 3 or 4 minutes,

654
00:24:58,010 --> 00:25:00,490
right, with myself, the reporter and the

655
00:25:00,490 --> 00:25:01,650
other political analysts.

656
00:25:01,650 --> 00:25:03,330
So there's three of us. So it's like boom,

657
00:25:03,330 --> 00:25:04,770
boom, boom, right. Question,

658
00:25:04,770 --> 00:25:05,850
short answer, you know,

659
00:25:05,890 --> 00:25:07,010
next person, etc..

660
00:25:07,410 --> 00:25:08,930
So I'll have my prepared notes,

661
00:25:08,970 --> 00:25:10,810
just like you do on the sidelines of what

662
00:25:10,810 --> 00:25:12,250
we're going to talk about, and some different

663
00:25:12,250 --> 00:25:14,050
things that I've thought about in advance.

664
00:25:14,330 --> 00:25:16,890
And I remember it was so again,

665
00:25:16,930 --> 00:25:18,850
lots of live TV and I'm good at thinking on

666
00:25:18,850 --> 00:25:22,410
my feet. And this was again,

667
00:25:22,410 --> 00:25:25,170
election night. 2016 was not going the way

668
00:25:25,370 --> 00:25:28,050
that I had hoped and we were taped.

669
00:25:28,090 --> 00:25:30,490
Luckily we were taping for the next morning,

670
00:25:30,490 --> 00:25:32,370
so it was like 1130 at night.

671
00:25:32,370 --> 00:25:34,130
Close to midnight. We were getting ready to

672
00:25:34,170 --> 00:25:36,210
wrap because we had just done the 11:00 news

673
00:25:36,250 --> 00:25:38,450
hour and the.

674
00:25:38,690 --> 00:25:40,170
So we were taping the segment,

675
00:25:40,210 --> 00:25:42,090
not live, and the reporter asked me a

676
00:25:42,090 --> 00:25:43,410
question and I literally,

677
00:25:43,410 --> 00:25:46,370
I think I was in a state of shock and I took

678
00:25:46,370 --> 00:25:49,090
me like 10s to answer,

679
00:25:49,090 --> 00:25:51,010
which would never happen on live TV.

680
00:25:51,150 --> 00:25:53,390
My brain probably knew we were taping for the

681
00:25:53,390 --> 00:25:55,430
next morning because I probably would have

682
00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:56,550
answered anyways.

683
00:25:56,550 --> 00:25:58,430
But I remember I just kind of sat there and

684
00:25:58,430 --> 00:25:59,990
for the first time there were zero.

685
00:26:00,030 --> 00:26:02,230
Like no words would kind of come out of my

686
00:26:02,230 --> 00:26:03,950
mouth. And then finally I just,

687
00:26:03,950 --> 00:26:06,150
like, took a deep breath and I answered,

688
00:26:06,190 --> 00:26:08,110
of course they cut it, you know, they slice

689
00:26:08,110 --> 00:26:09,950
it up for the next morning,

690
00:26:09,950 --> 00:26:12,830
but that has stuck with me so much because I

691
00:26:12,830 --> 00:26:15,630
feel like no matter how experienced you are,

692
00:26:15,630 --> 00:26:17,790
no matter how many years I have done this,

693
00:26:17,790 --> 00:26:19,230
no matter how prepared I was,

694
00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:21,430
sometimes like physically,

695
00:26:21,430 --> 00:26:24,390
like your body physiologically is doing

696
00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:26,910
something that you can't necessarily control.

697
00:26:26,910 --> 00:26:29,430
It's human. Like, I was having a real human

698
00:26:29,430 --> 00:26:32,750
moment and instead of beating myself up for

699
00:26:32,750 --> 00:26:34,670
it, which I do not, I give myself a lot of

700
00:26:34,670 --> 00:26:36,510
grace. And I think that's important for us to

701
00:26:36,550 --> 00:26:38,790
remember, too, that we're not always going to

702
00:26:38,790 --> 00:26:41,990
be perfect and to give ourselves grace when

703
00:26:42,030 --> 00:26:44,030
things don't go the way that we would want

704
00:26:44,030 --> 00:26:44,630
them to.

705
00:26:45,230 --> 00:26:47,510
Jen Mueller:
You want to know the most brilliant thing in

706
00:26:47,510 --> 00:26:48,870
TV? You already know this,

707
00:26:48,870 --> 00:26:50,510
but I'm going to share it with the audience.

708
00:26:50,850 --> 00:26:54,050
The most brilliant part of TV is that there's

709
00:26:54,050 --> 00:26:55,370
always another broadcast.

710
00:26:56,130 --> 00:26:59,010
And so we joke about it all the time.

711
00:26:59,010 --> 00:27:01,530
The worst is if you have that moment and then

712
00:27:01,530 --> 00:27:03,330
you're not on TV for two weeks because you

713
00:27:03,330 --> 00:27:04,650
went on vacation. Right.

714
00:27:04,890 --> 00:27:07,890
The best part is you have a chance to go back

715
00:27:07,890 --> 00:27:09,830
and do it again, probably in another 30

716
00:27:09,830 --> 00:27:11,690
minutes. Right. 30 minutes or 2 hours.

717
00:27:11,690 --> 00:27:14,410
And so I hate to say it's like getting back

718
00:27:14,410 --> 00:27:16,650
on the horse, but it really is important to

719
00:27:16,690 --> 00:27:18,730
go back out there and have that interaction.

720
00:27:19,130 --> 00:27:21,970
And that's another one of those things where

721
00:27:21,970 --> 00:27:24,570
I would just say, oh my gosh,

722
00:27:24,610 --> 00:27:26,330
my brain went totally blank.

723
00:27:26,370 --> 00:27:28,490
We've been talking about this all day.

724
00:27:28,490 --> 00:27:30,450
Just buying myself a little bit of time.

725
00:27:30,490 --> 00:27:32,930
Right. I have lost my train of thought during

726
00:27:32,930 --> 00:27:36,210
an interview. I have had producers talk in my

727
00:27:36,210 --> 00:27:38,570
ear while I'm doing an interview so that I

728
00:27:38,610 --> 00:27:40,210
can't hear the person that I'm actually

729
00:27:40,210 --> 00:27:44,090
talking to, and then I'm stuck because they

730
00:27:44,210 --> 00:27:46,090
finish their answer and I don't know what

731
00:27:46,090 --> 00:27:47,450
they just said, right?

732
00:27:47,650 --> 00:27:49,970
And I have little phrases that I can get out

733
00:27:49,970 --> 00:27:52,910
of that To say I was so caught up in that

734
00:27:52,910 --> 00:27:56,110
answer I almost forgot my next question.

735
00:27:56,470 --> 00:27:58,510
Now the the truth is, I did forget the next

736
00:27:58,510 --> 00:27:59,710
question. I have no idea what they said,

737
00:27:59,710 --> 00:28:02,150
right? But I've got the little ways to pivot

738
00:28:02,190 --> 00:28:04,030
out of that, which once again,

739
00:28:04,070 --> 00:28:07,110
it's level setting and stating the obvious.

740
00:28:07,310 --> 00:28:10,070
I have also literally tripped into athletes

741
00:28:10,070 --> 00:28:12,030
trying to introduce myself while they were

742
00:28:12,030 --> 00:28:14,390
getting dressed. Those are moments I don't

743
00:28:14,390 --> 00:28:16,750
forget. And you can't pretend like it didn't

744
00:28:16,750 --> 00:28:18,990
happen because everybody just watched this

745
00:28:18,990 --> 00:28:21,550
happen, right? Talk about a human moment

746
00:28:21,550 --> 00:28:23,390
where your face goes bright red and you're

747
00:28:23,390 --> 00:28:25,390
just like, okay, you know what I'm going to

748
00:28:25,390 --> 00:28:26,670
do? Try this again tomorrow.

749
00:28:26,870 --> 00:28:27,350
Um.

750
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:29,390
Speaker3:
Well, hopefully they'll say they'll say hi to

751
00:28:29,390 --> 00:28:29,830
you because.

752
00:28:29,830 --> 00:28:30,750
Carol Cox:
They remember you.

753
00:28:30,870 --> 00:28:32,990
Jen Mueller:
Yeah, well, I did make quite the impression.

754
00:28:33,390 --> 00:28:35,350
I did, I did make quite the impression.

755
00:28:35,390 --> 00:28:35,870
Yeah.

756
00:28:35,910 --> 00:28:37,270
Speaker3:
Mhm. Um, so.

757
00:28:37,270 --> 00:28:39,030
Carol Cox:
Jen talk to us about your company.

758
00:28:39,070 --> 00:28:40,470
Talk sporty to me.

759
00:28:40,510 --> 00:28:42,390
What do you do and who do you work with.

760
00:28:42,830 --> 00:28:45,550
Jen Mueller:
So I do a lot of keynotes and I do a lot of

761
00:28:45,550 --> 00:28:47,950
content around effective communication.

762
00:28:47,950 --> 00:28:49,830
It's just like the conversation we've been

763
00:28:50,050 --> 00:28:52,530
having today, pulling back the curtain on

764
00:28:52,530 --> 00:28:56,010
some of these conversations to really dissect

765
00:28:56,050 --> 00:28:57,290
how did we get there?

766
00:28:57,290 --> 00:28:59,730
How do we make the most of really short

767
00:28:59,730 --> 00:29:00,850
interactions?

768
00:29:00,850 --> 00:29:02,530
How do we make sure that we're not just

769
00:29:02,570 --> 00:29:04,690
asking for more communication?

770
00:29:04,690 --> 00:29:07,690
We actually are giving the people around us,

771
00:29:07,690 --> 00:29:09,410
whether it's our team at work, our team on

772
00:29:09,410 --> 00:29:12,890
the field, what they need to be successful.

773
00:29:12,890 --> 00:29:15,010
So I work with a lot of clients that are in

774
00:29:15,050 --> 00:29:17,210
the financial space, um,

775
00:29:17,250 --> 00:29:20,490
folks who need some additional tools around

776
00:29:20,490 --> 00:29:22,450
those soft skills, right?

777
00:29:22,490 --> 00:29:23,970
They've got the numbers down, but a little

778
00:29:24,010 --> 00:29:25,210
bit of soft skills and,

779
00:29:25,370 --> 00:29:28,250
um, inspiring some audiences to believe that

780
00:29:28,250 --> 00:29:30,050
they've already got the answers.

781
00:29:30,090 --> 00:29:32,250
They just they just need to elevate

782
00:29:32,250 --> 00:29:33,850
themselves just a little bit.

783
00:29:34,770 --> 00:29:37,050
Carol Cox:
Well, what is what is something that

784
00:29:37,050 --> 00:29:39,130
listeners can start doing today,

785
00:29:39,370 --> 00:29:41,810
a habit or a strategy that they can

786
00:29:41,810 --> 00:29:44,330
incorporate into what they're doing to help

787
00:29:44,330 --> 00:29:47,170
them build this idea of confidence when

788
00:29:47,170 --> 00:29:49,250
they're in high pressure situations.

789
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:51,880
Jen Mueller:
Well, I would say a couple of things.

790
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,160
Number one, you could turn every situation

791
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,240
into your version of high pressure.

792
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:58,880
So here's what I mean.

793
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,920
You know that people are going to ask you the

794
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,760
question, how are you.

795
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:04,720
Multiple times a day, right.

796
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,960
Hey, how are you? How's it going today?

797
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,680
And we would generally answer with the same

798
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,320
script, whatever that is.

799
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:13,680
I'm good. How are you?

800
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,200
I'm good. Instead of delivering that same

801
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,520
line, deliver what I would call a success

802
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,520
statement, which changes that conversation.

803
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,880
It makes you vulnerable in the moment.

804
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,680
And it's going to create that,

805
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,840
that, um, a little bit more high stakes

806
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,040
because the person you're talking to was not

807
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:36,640
expecting that answer either.

808
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,400
And so now you get to practice in a real low

809
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,520
stakes moment, the same exact emotions that

810
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,480
you would feel in some of those more crucial,

811
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,240
crucial and critical conversations.

812
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:48,280
Does that make sense?

813
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,220
Carol Cox:
Yes, yes. Like taking these daily

814
00:30:50,220 --> 00:30:52,020
opportunities to practice?

815
00:30:52,220 --> 00:30:54,860
Jen Mueller:
Yes. So you would say something like I'm

816
00:30:54,900 --> 00:30:58,100
fantastic. I loved this podcast episode that

817
00:30:58,100 --> 00:31:00,100
I got a chance to talk to today.

818
00:31:00,300 --> 00:31:02,220
Right. I answered the question.

819
00:31:02,220 --> 00:31:03,860
I gave my success.

820
00:31:03,900 --> 00:31:05,060
I love this podcast.

821
00:31:05,060 --> 00:31:08,220
I just opened the door for a different

822
00:31:08,220 --> 00:31:09,460
conversation.

823
00:31:09,780 --> 00:31:11,700
I get to guide that conversation,

824
00:31:11,700 --> 00:31:13,620
but I also get to practice some of these

825
00:31:13,620 --> 00:31:15,500
skills because I don't know where the

826
00:31:15,500 --> 00:31:16,980
conversation is going to go.

827
00:31:17,140 --> 00:31:19,020
So use these little moments.

828
00:31:19,020 --> 00:31:20,660
By the way, you're also advocating for

829
00:31:20,660 --> 00:31:21,900
yourself when you do that,

830
00:31:21,900 --> 00:31:25,180
but use the little moments to start building

831
00:31:25,180 --> 00:31:28,220
up the skills and the confidence to use them

832
00:31:28,220 --> 00:31:29,380
in bigger moments.

833
00:31:29,860 --> 00:31:31,380
Carol Cox:
Oh, I like that. Jen.

834
00:31:31,380 --> 00:31:32,780
Where is the best place for listeners to

835
00:31:32,820 --> 00:31:33,660
connect with you?

836
00:31:34,460 --> 00:31:37,300
Jen Mueller:
I would say LinkedIn and Instagram.

837
00:31:37,300 --> 00:31:40,220
You can find me on Talk Sporty to me if you

838
00:31:40,220 --> 00:31:42,500
like the videos, Talk Sporty to me on

839
00:31:42,500 --> 00:31:45,220
YouTube. That is the website I will also

840
00:31:45,220 --> 00:31:47,380
throw out if you are a sports fan and like

841
00:31:47,380 --> 00:31:50,040
cooking, I have an entire show where I cook

842
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:51,480
with athletes called I cook,

843
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,760
You Measure, and that's a really fun way to

844
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,840
just engage on a different level in all of

845
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,200
those conversations.

846
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,000
Carol Cox:
Oh that's fun. This is on YouTube.

847
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:01,560
Jen Mueller:
It is on YouTube. Yep.

848
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,000
Carol Cox:
Well, tell us some of the things that you've

849
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:03,480
cooked.

850
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,560
Jen Mueller:
We have cooked any number of things from like

851
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:12,680
a taco, turkey mac to steak with chimichurri

852
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,800
to chorizo with eggs.

853
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,640
But the crazy part is figuring out what their

854
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,480
comfort and skill level is in the kitchen.

855
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,320
So you talk about vulnerability.

856
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,960
Tell you what, these guys are admitting that

857
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,720
they don't know how to use a can opener or a

858
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,400
knife. I think that takes a little bit more,

859
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,720
um, confidence and vulnerability than you

860
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,960
might imagine, but it also creates some

861
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,040
really fun and funny moments in the kitchen.

862
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:38,480
Carol Cox:
Oh, that is fun. All right.

863
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,280
I'll make sure to put all of these links in

864
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,960
the show notes so that listeners can find you

865
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,040
on YouTube and LinkedIn and Instagram and

866
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:46,960
your website. Jen, thank you so much for

867
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:48,900
coming on the podcast. I really enjoyed this

868
00:32:48,900 --> 00:32:49,900
conversation.

869
00:32:49,940 --> 00:32:51,220
Jen Mueller:
Yeah, it's been really fun.

870
00:32:51,220 --> 00:32:52,220
Carol, thanks.

871
00:32:52,660 --> 00:32:54,780
Carol Cox:
If this conversation got you thinking about

872
00:32:54,780 --> 00:32:56,820
how you show up when it matters most,

873
00:32:56,820 --> 00:32:58,220
whether it's on stage,

874
00:32:58,420 --> 00:33:00,260
in a meeting, on camera,

875
00:33:00,300 --> 00:33:01,620
even on a zoom webinar,

876
00:33:01,780 --> 00:33:04,500
and you want to elevate both your content and

877
00:33:04,500 --> 00:33:07,700
your delivery. Join us at our next one day

878
00:33:07,820 --> 00:33:11,540
in-person Speaking Accelerator workshop in

879
00:33:11,540 --> 00:33:12,780
Orlando, Florida.

880
00:33:12,780 --> 00:33:14,300
We have so much fun!

881
00:33:14,340 --> 00:33:16,700
You create your signature talk and you get to

882
00:33:16,740 --> 00:33:19,620
practice delivering it all on the same day.

883
00:33:19,620 --> 00:33:21,620
That's why we call it an accelerator.

884
00:33:21,700 --> 00:33:24,020
You can get all the details at speaking your

885
00:33:24,020 --> 00:33:27,860
brand.com. Again, that's speaking your brand.

886
00:33:30,420 --> 00:33:31,900
If you enjoyed this episode,

887
00:33:31,940 --> 00:33:34,180
be sure to follow the Speaking Your Podcast

888
00:33:34,180 --> 00:33:36,780
and your favorite podcast app and share it

889
00:33:36,780 --> 00:33:38,940
with a friend. Until next time,

890
00:33:38,940 --> 00:33:40,020
thanks for listening.