Polina:
0:14
Hello and welcome to Smart and Well, a podcast supporting mental health and well-being for students and early career researchers from all academic fields. In today's episode, we will talk about career insecurities among academics. Despite the scarcity of permanent positions in academia, the number of people deciding to pursue an advanced academic degree, be it master's or doctoral degree, is growing every year, and many students are motivated by a potential career in academia. Academia can be rewarding in many ways, especially when you're passionate about science and research. But those who decide to build a career within academia can also face many obstacles. With contracts often lasting only a few years and having to move around frequently to find work, it can become difficult for graduate and postgraduate students to plan for the future or maintain personal or professional relationships. For these reasons, some people decide to leave academia and pursue a career in industry or nonprofit or governmental organizations. However, not everyone feels prepared for life outside of academia. They are either overqualified for some positions or their scientific skills are insufficient. This uncertainty related to career and future can lead to serious mental health struggles, which is why we think it is important to raise awareness about this topic. Our guest today is Dr Birte Seffert, who is currently the head of advisory and funding programs at the German Scholars Organization. She is an expert in career development and has been working with graduate and postgraduate students for more than 10 years. She will help us understand career challenges in academia by sharing her expertise and offering some very useful tips on how to tackle them. We're delighted to have you on our podcast today. Welcome Birte!
Dr Birte Seffert:
2:07
Thank you. Thank you for the invitation.
Polina:
2:10
You have a very rich experience in counseling students. What are the most frequent career related worries and doubts that students and early career researchers have, and why can these issues take a toll on mental health?
Dr Birte Seffert:
2:26
Yeah, well, I see three major worries I would say. One is that people say, okay, I'm trained only for academia, but there are not enough jobs in academia, or stable and secure jobs for that matter. And the second is, I don't know what other career options there are outside of academia and what skills I have to pursue another career outside of academia. So, there's oftentimes very little knowledge of the job market and job profiles outside of academia and also little understanding of the skills and competencies that graduates and early career researchers possess, such as, for instance, oftentimes great communication and presentation skills or time management and project management skills, just to name a few. And the last worry, I would say, is that many people think they are unsure how to translate their motivation, but also their experiences and skills, in their CV and in a cover letter to show that there are a good match for a job. So this problem often starts that it's difficult to understand job ads for jobs outside of academia. You need kind of to decipher the job ads and to match them with your experiences, to mirror the keywords of the job ad and to try to learn the language of the reader, and in most cases those are human resources, people reading your application. So, it's about learning to tell a story that resonates with a potential employer, and that is something that can be very difficult in the beginning. I would say, up until now, university education in Germany in most cases does not prepare or explicitly prepare and train graduates for jobs outside of academia, and that can put a lot of stress on your mental health once you want to leave academia or you have to leave academia because your contract is ending, because what's behind that is unknown, and the unknown usually means a lot of insecurities. It might mean that you question yourself. It comes with a lot of stress, mentally and even financially. So, it's not an easy situation. And, as you mentioned before, for those working in academia, continue to wo rk in academia after graduation from their master's, for instance. While so many have a deep passion and also intrinsic motivation to pursue research, it is very stressful to work over and over again on limited contracts and managing research, teaching, maybe administrative duties, so a lot of tasks that you have to do and also develop in order to develop your academic career portfolio, so that you might have later on a chance to get a professorship. So, as much as there is passion and pleasure in academia, I would say, it often also means living economically precarious, working in a very dependent position with your professor and supervisor. I mean, PhD students know this. Sometimes your supervisor is also your boss.
Polina:
6:03
Most of the time, so to say.
Dr Birte Seffert:
6:05
And having to face hard competition, also with your peers in your own field. That might demand you to work harder and longer hours for for over several years. So this is what I think worries graduates and early career research as the most.
Polina:
6:24
Yes, someone who is finishing the PhD right now and who is just applying for jobs and also deciding between academia and industry, I can totally relate to all the points, and I often hear that many of the disappointments about career prospects or the way academia works come from students' wrong expectations about academia. Well we now know that the academic system is not perfect and often works in very counterintuitive ways. So what are the silent facts about academia that should become explicit in order to diminish this adverse effect on students and early career researchers?
Dr Birte Seffert:
7:04
Yeah, I really think that it's not part of the academic education at the moment to tell people, like in courses or by your supervisor, look, in Germany, academia is basically a bottleneck. We have a lot of students on the Bachelor and Master level and on the PhD level and we recruit internationally to get more young researchers to come to Germany, but after that positions become very scarce. So, that's a message that I think should be communicated early on, maybe even in recruitment, by universities and by professors, and should also become part of the academic education, not just that you're learning to do proper research, like good scientific practice, research methodologies etc. But also what can you learn from it that is transferable also for other sectors, for your career after graduation. And one other thing, especially, but not only for international students and researchers, it's very difficult to understand the academic system. I don't know if ever anyone explains to you what's the possible career path and that there are also pretty strict time limits. I mean, you have six years for your PhD at most and then six years as a postdoc, and if you don't manage to secure a professorship in that time, then it's very difficult. What do you do then?
Polina:
8:43
And these six years might even change now.
Dr Birte Seffert:
8:46
Yes, with the current discussions about how to reform the law? Yeah, might change to three years. Let's see how that develops. Yeah, and I think a lot of facts about the academic system in Germany are very implicit, not openly communicated. You know the mechanism, how everything works. I mean it's not just a structure, but for instance, is it really like always the best researcher getting to a professorship, or what other factors, what other mechanisms contribute to someone actually gaining that position? I would say that's an example of the silent facts. But I think, well, apart from the necessity to make those mechanisms, the system and its flaw s more apparent, to communicate it more, I would say one really interesting thing is that academia is in fact, in Germany, the alternative career, and that's something that many students are not aware of.
Polina:
9:55
What do you mean by alternative career?
Dr Birte Seffert:
9:56
Well, if, you look at the statistics, it's actually 85% of all graduates, including PhD graduates and postdocs, who leave academia and work in, for instance, the private sector, the public sector, non-government organizations or who become entrepreneurs. So, the vast majority does not stay in academia. And it also means, and I think that's quite encouraging, that the skills that we develop as students and researchers are actually needed and welcome outside of academia, and all the more, I would say, right now, at this time, because with the generational change in Germany, many people are retiring in the next couple of years, so there's a huge demand of well-trained staff due to the aging society and it is actually now a good time to transition, to try out new career paths outside of academia. But I also have to say one of the important things is also to learn the language, because in many, maybe not in Berlin, if you want to be a software engineer or data scientist, then you might find also many environments where you can work solely in English, but in other sectors it's still required and expected that you have a certain level of German or at least would like to improve your German.
Polina:
11:36
When students are thinking about leaving academia, they often think about themselves as failed scientists. If they wanted to stay in academia and continue working in research, they think that they failed in some ways. So why are thoughts of leaving academia so scary? How can we make them less scary and make this decision, the right decision for each person?
Dr Birte Seffert:
12:03
I see two groups for whom I think this is especially challenging. One is post-doctoral researchers. So for many, I would say, academia is kind of a calling and on the other hand you see the often harsh reality working conditions. So, for post-docs, the longer you work in academia the more it might become not only a job for you but it becomes your identity. And it's always difficult to let go of something that is really connected close to your heart and to your identity, If you have never thought about what other things might be there, if you never thought about a plan B, that can be very painful. And the second group I would say is also PhD students struggling with their PhD and maybe thinking of dropping out. This is a pretty common phenomenon in Germany. If you look at the statistics, there are some disciplines where you have pretty high rates of dropouts and it's also depending on your status - are you employed or are you working and at the same time doing your PhD as an external researcher. So, PhD students also are kind of like a class society. Sometimes I would say they're different classes. As a PhD student, if you feel lonely and you don't get the support and guidance that you need to continue with your research, or you are facing difficulties or even maybe sometimes open conflicts, for instance with your supervisor, or you don't see progress, or you're facing too much pressure to deliver, all kinds of reasons that can make people think of dropping out of their PhD. So, to make the right decision, like should I stay or should I go, or what other options do I have I like to recommend a little coaching exercise. Start by writing down on a piece of paper, on one paper staying, on one paper leaving, or what other more concrete options you are seeing, the concrete the better, and then write everything down that you can think of, make a long list what do I gain from it if I stay or if I leave, and what's the price? After you made your list, you can even take several days, think about this, reflect on it, and you can even choose to like stand or sit on your piece of paper and close your eyes and listen to what actually your body, and I really mean your body, not your mind, what your body has to say when you stand on that paper and pretend, okay, I've made now this decision to stay or to leave and choose the decision where your body tells you, okay, this feels more right, and try to live, or to pretend for three days to live, with that decision. Pretend you've made that decision. Now, after three days, come back and think about it again. Does it still feel right? That might be the right thing to do, and then you can start developing strategies, next steps, smart goals on how to work towards that decision.
Polina:
15:36
That's a very cool trick. You mentioned that often PhD students don't even think about plan B, never consider it in terms of leaving academia. So, how can students and early career researchers not get overwhelmed by career prospects outside of academia, but also in academia actually? So what can be done about career insecurities on the individual level during the studies already?
Dr Birte Seffert:
16:03
Well, I think the most important thing is talk to people because, for one thing, you will realize you are not alone and also it will give you the chance to gain more knowledge of how other people made their way, and it might be inspiring for you and you might make new contacts, build your network and even alliances. So, for instance, in academia, if you're thinking about continuing your way in academia, then talk to people who made it already to the next career level and ask them you know, how did you get there? What helped you on your way? What are the pros and cons for you to work in this job? What do you have to pay attention to? How do you have to plan your career? What's important? What kind of tips can you give me? And then take your time to self-reflect and also be honest with yourself. I think that's also important. What do you personally like about academia and why do you want to work in academia? So, is it just because you don't know what else to do or because this professor offered you a position, or is it really something you are burning for, where you're passion lies, what you're also good at, and that you might be willing to sacrifice something for, like for instance, security or managing family and work at the same time. Try to be honest and talk to people, and this is also the best career advice I can give to people who are thinking about transitioning outside of academia. So, next time you meet someone, not a student, not a fellow student, not someone in academia, someone who actually transitioned, then do maybe a little informational interview. Basically, whenever you meet someone who's working in an interesting field of work, you can just ask them what's your job about, what are your duties and responsibilities and tasks and what do you like about your job, or how did you get to this job and what skills are important in your job. It helps you actually gain a better understanding, I would say, of what jobs are out there, and you might even make this, if you ask the people, okay, do you think, well, I'm doing this, and that you can also use this to make a little introduction for yourself. Do you think I would be qualified for this job? Or what else would I need to work in a job like you do? And the last question should also always be can you maybe recommend me some other people I can talk to? This informational interview is a really good exercise to learn more, broaden your knowledge and extend your networks and, last but not least, because you asked me how not to get overwhelmed.
Polina:
19:00
Yes.
Dr Birte Seffert:
19:00
I think it's always important to take the time to self reflect and think of it from a bigger perspective, like what kind of life do you want for yourself? What's important to you? What values do you have? Also learn to get you know yourself better and always try to differentiate between what you, or maybe your parents want, or what society wants, and what you personally want and can do. Allow yourself to think in positive scenarios, to think in opportunities rather than in challenges, and think about what you can do for yourself to open up more options.
Polina:
19:45
You work at the German Scholars Organization, right? Can you tell us more about it? What kind of resources and help is available?
Dr Birte Seffert:
19:55
Yeah, well, so we are a nonprofit in Berlin, actually we exists like 21 years of now. The German Scholars Organization, basically, our mission is to empower researchers and I mean mostly like PhD students towards the end and postdoctoral researchers to build careers in Germany, be it in academia or outside of academia. So, the name German Scholars Organization is a little bit misleading because of course we're not only working with and supporting German nationals, but basically everyone who is in Germany and wants to build their career here. So, what we do is we offer career coaching, career advice, we work with you on your CV and cover letter, we help to prepare for job interviews and also to discuss the questions, should I do this, should I do that, what else is out there, giving people also the time to and some hints to self-reflect. We give workshops, many for universities, research institutions in Germany, and we have a couple of interesting programs for postdoctoral researchers. One is called the Leadership Academy and some other funding programs. We also have a conference. It's called, it has an interesting name, it's called To Be Honest Conference. That's a conference where you can engage with other early career researchers on real career talk behind the scenes of academia, the things that no one tells you in public sometimes, and if you go to our website, that's www. gsonet. org, then you can find more information, or you can also hook up with us on LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram.
Polina:
21:50
Cool, thank you. Could you give us one piece of advice for students and early career researchers?
Dr Birte Seffert:
21:57
You know, start early. I know, as you said, there's never enough time, but I think you y ourself and your future is a very important thing. I mean, it doesn't have to be like an hour every day, but plan it in your schedule, maybe starting like one year before you finish your studies or your PhD, or one year before your time as a postdoctoral researcher ends and use that time to speak to people, to self-reflect also, maybe to browse from time to time job ads, just to see what's out there and how that might resonate with what you're interested in and what you can do, because if you start early, then you can still have time to maybe gain additional experiences or to better your position, to position yourself. Yeah, I think that's like the long-term suggestion and the other one, I would say set yourself up for lucky coincidences by creating opportunities for yourself and creating more options for yourself. Be curious, ask questions, meet people, try once in a while to leave your comfort zone, because you might make surprising discoveries and get new insights about yourself, but also about the world outside of academia.
Polina:
23:25
Right, so you already gave us a very nice little exercise.
Dr Birte Seffert:
23:32
I have one more. I thought about it before and one thing I really like because it doesn't take a lot of time but it helps, I think, to get some inspiration or just a little warm shower of appreciation. So write a text message to five people you know could be friends, family, colleagues, whoever you think knows a little bit about you and tell them in your text message, I'm currently thinking about what I'm going to do after graduation, after my PhD, after finishing my postdoc project, and I would like to ask you which qualities, skills or talents do you see in me, or what do you think I'm really good at, and where do you see myself working in the future, like in what sector, in what role, in what position, what kind of a company? Thank them and send out a text message and wait for replies. Because oftentimes people from the outside see us in a very different way than we do. They see new things. This little exercise might get you some interesting insights into how people perceive you and you can use that for your own self-reflection process. And even if you're invited to a job interview or you have to write a job application, those things you can sometimes weave into your application, because it might be something new that you learned about yourself.
Polina:
25:09
Thank you so much for your advice and practical tips.
Dr Birte Seffert:
25:12
Thank you for having me and good luck with the podcast also.
Polina:
25:16
Thank you. We remind you that you can find how to contact us and other useful details, such as the mentioned links in the show notes. The transcripts are available on smartandwell. buzzsprout. com. Subscribe to the Smart and Well podcast on your preferred podcast app and please share it with your friends and colleagues. Thank you for listening to this episode. Take care, be smart and stay well.
0:14
Hello and welcome to Smart and Well, a podcast supporting mental health and well-being for students and early career researchers from all academic fields. In today's episode, we will talk about career insecurities among academics. Despite the scarcity of permanent positions in academia, the number of people deciding to pursue an advanced academic degree, be it master's or doctoral degree, is growing every year, and many students are motivated by a potential career in academia. Academia can be rewarding in many ways, especially when you're passionate about science and research. But those who decide to build a career within academia can also face many obstacles. With contracts often lasting only a few years and having to move around frequently to find work, it can become difficult for graduate and postgraduate students to plan for the future or maintain personal or professional relationships. For these reasons, some people decide to leave academia and pursue a career in industry or nonprofit or governmental organizations. However, not everyone feels prepared for life outside of academia. They are either overqualified for some positions or their scientific skills are insufficient. This uncertainty related to career and future can lead to serious mental health struggles, which is why we think it is important to raise awareness about this topic. Our guest today is Dr Birte Seffert, who is currently the head of advisory and funding programs at the German Scholars Organization. She is an expert in career development and has been working with graduate and postgraduate students for more than 10 years. She will help us understand career challenges in academia by sharing her expertise and offering some very useful tips on how to tackle them. We're delighted to have you on our podcast today. Welcome Birte!
Dr Birte Seffert:
2:07
Thank you. Thank you for the invitation.
Polina:
2:10
You have a very rich experience in counseling students. What are the most frequent career related worries and doubts that students and early career researchers have, and why can these issues take a toll on mental health?
Dr Birte Seffert:
2:26
Yeah, well, I see three major worries I would say. One is that people say, okay, I'm trained only for academia, but there are not enough jobs in academia, or stable and secure jobs for that matter. And the second is, I don't know what other career options there are outside of academia and what skills I have to pursue another career outside of academia. So, there's oftentimes very little knowledge of the job market and job profiles outside of academia and also little understanding of the skills and competencies that graduates and early career researchers possess, such as, for instance, oftentimes great communication and presentation skills or time management and project management skills, just to name a few. And the last worry, I would say, is that many people think they are unsure how to translate their motivation, but also their experiences and skills, in their CV and in a cover letter to show that there are a good match for a job. So this problem often starts that it's difficult to understand job ads for jobs outside of academia. You need kind of to decipher the job ads and to match them with your experiences, to mirror the keywords of the job ad and to try to learn the language of the reader, and in most cases those are human resources, people reading your application. So, it's about learning to tell a story that resonates with a potential employer, and that is something that can be very difficult in the beginning. I would say, up until now, university education in Germany in most cases does not prepare or explicitly prepare and train graduates for jobs outside of academia, and that can put a lot of stress on your mental health once you want to leave academia or you have to leave academia because your contract is ending, because what's behind that is unknown, and the unknown usually means a lot of insecurities. It might mean that you question yourself. It comes with a lot of stress, mentally and even financially. So, it's not an easy situation. And, as you mentioned before, for those working in academia, continue to wo rk in academia after graduation from their master's, for instance. While so many have a deep passion and also intrinsic motivation to pursue research, it is very stressful to work over and over again on limited contracts and managing research, teaching, maybe administrative duties, so a lot of tasks that you have to do and also develop in order to develop your academic career portfolio, so that you might have later on a chance to get a professorship. So, as much as there is passion and pleasure in academia, I would say, it often also means living economically precarious, working in a very dependent position with your professor and supervisor. I mean, PhD students know this. Sometimes your supervisor is also your boss.
Polina:
6:03
Most of the time, so to say.
Dr Birte Seffert:
6:05
And having to face hard competition, also with your peers in your own field. That might demand you to work harder and longer hours for for over several years. So this is what I think worries graduates and early career research as the most.
Polina:
6:24
Yes, someone who is finishing the PhD right now and who is just applying for jobs and also deciding between academia and industry, I can totally relate to all the points, and I often hear that many of the disappointments about career prospects or the way academia works come from students' wrong expectations about academia. Well we now know that the academic system is not perfect and often works in very counterintuitive ways. So what are the silent facts about academia that should become explicit in order to diminish this adverse effect on students and early career researchers?
Dr Birte Seffert:
7:04
Yeah, I really think that it's not part of the academic education at the moment to tell people, like in courses or by your supervisor, look, in Germany, academia is basically a bottleneck. We have a lot of students on the Bachelor and Master level and on the PhD level and we recruit internationally to get more young researchers to come to Germany, but after that positions become very scarce. So, that's a message that I think should be communicated early on, maybe even in recruitment, by universities and by professors, and should also become part of the academic education, not just that you're learning to do proper research, like good scientific practice, research methodologies etc. But also what can you learn from it that is transferable also for other sectors, for your career after graduation. And one other thing, especially, but not only for international students and researchers, it's very difficult to understand the academic system. I don't know if ever anyone explains to you what's the possible career path and that there are also pretty strict time limits. I mean, you have six years for your PhD at most and then six years as a postdoc, and if you don't manage to secure a professorship in that time, then it's very difficult. What do you do then?
Polina:
8:43
And these six years might even change now.
Dr Birte Seffert:
8:46
Yes, with the current discussions about how to reform the law? Yeah, might change to three years. Let's see how that develops. Yeah, and I think a lot of facts about the academic system in Germany are very implicit, not openly communicated. You know the mechanism, how everything works. I mean it's not just a structure, but for instance, is it really like always the best researcher getting to a professorship, or what other factors, what other mechanisms contribute to someone actually gaining that position? I would say that's an example of the silent facts. But I think, well, apart from the necessity to make those mechanisms, the system and its flaw s more apparent, to communicate it more, I would say one really interesting thing is that academia is in fact, in Germany, the alternative career, and that's something that many students are not aware of.
Polina:
9:55
What do you mean by alternative career?
Dr Birte Seffert:
9:56
Well, if, you look at the statistics, it's actually 85% of all graduates, including PhD graduates and postdocs, who leave academia and work in, for instance, the private sector, the public sector, non-government organizations or who become entrepreneurs. So, the vast majority does not stay in academia. And it also means, and I think that's quite encouraging, that the skills that we develop as students and researchers are actually needed and welcome outside of academia, and all the more, I would say, right now, at this time, because with the generational change in Germany, many people are retiring in the next couple of years, so there's a huge demand of well-trained staff due to the aging society and it is actually now a good time to transition, to try out new career paths outside of academia. But I also have to say one of the important things is also to learn the language, because in many, maybe not in Berlin, if you want to be a software engineer or data scientist, then you might find also many environments where you can work solely in English, but in other sectors it's still required and expected that you have a certain level of German or at least would like to improve your German.
Polina:
11:36
When students are thinking about leaving academia, they often think about themselves as failed scientists. If they wanted to stay in academia and continue working in research, they think that they failed in some ways. So why are thoughts of leaving academia so scary? How can we make them less scary and make this decision, the right decision for each person?
Dr Birte Seffert:
12:03
I see two groups for whom I think this is especially challenging. One is post-doctoral researchers. So for many, I would say, academia is kind of a calling and on the other hand you see the often harsh reality working conditions. So, for post-docs, the longer you work in academia the more it might become not only a job for you but it becomes your identity. And it's always difficult to let go of something that is really connected close to your heart and to your identity, If you have never thought about what other things might be there, if you never thought about a plan B, that can be very painful. And the second group I would say is also PhD students struggling with their PhD and maybe thinking of dropping out. This is a pretty common phenomenon in Germany. If you look at the statistics, there are some disciplines where you have pretty high rates of dropouts and it's also depending on your status - are you employed or are you working and at the same time doing your PhD as an external researcher. So, PhD students also are kind of like a class society. Sometimes I would say they're different classes. As a PhD student, if you feel lonely and you don't get the support and guidance that you need to continue with your research, or you are facing difficulties or even maybe sometimes open conflicts, for instance with your supervisor, or you don't see progress, or you're facing too much pressure to deliver, all kinds of reasons that can make people think of dropping out of their PhD. So, to make the right decision, like should I stay or should I go, or what other options do I have I like to recommend a little coaching exercise. Start by writing down on a piece of paper, on one paper staying, on one paper leaving, or what other more concrete options you are seeing, the concrete the better, and then write everything down that you can think of, make a long list what do I gain from it if I stay or if I leave, and what's the price? After you made your list, you can even take several days, think about this, reflect on it, and you can even choose to like stand or sit on your piece of paper and close your eyes and listen to what actually your body, and I really mean your body, not your mind, what your body has to say when you stand on that paper and pretend, okay, I've made now this decision to stay or to leave and choose the decision where your body tells you, okay, this feels more right, and try to live, or to pretend for three days to live, with that decision. Pretend you've made that decision. Now, after three days, come back and think about it again. Does it still feel right? That might be the right thing to do, and then you can start developing strategies, next steps, smart goals on how to work towards that decision.
Polina:
15:36
That's a very cool trick. You mentioned that often PhD students don't even think about plan B, never consider it in terms of leaving academia. So, how can students and early career researchers not get overwhelmed by career prospects outside of academia, but also in academia actually? So what can be done about career insecurities on the individual level during the studies already?
Dr Birte Seffert:
16:03
Well, I think the most important thing is talk to people because, for one thing, you will realize you are not alone and also it will give you the chance to gain more knowledge of how other people made their way, and it might be inspiring for you and you might make new contacts, build your network and even alliances. So, for instance, in academia, if you're thinking about continuing your way in academia, then talk to people who made it already to the next career level and ask them you know, how did you get there? What helped you on your way? What are the pros and cons for you to work in this job? What do you have to pay attention to? How do you have to plan your career? What's important? What kind of tips can you give me? And then take your time to self-reflect and also be honest with yourself. I think that's also important. What do you personally like about academia and why do you want to work in academia? So, is it just because you don't know what else to do or because this professor offered you a position, or is it really something you are burning for, where you're passion lies, what you're also good at, and that you might be willing to sacrifice something for, like for instance, security or managing family and work at the same time. Try to be honest and talk to people, and this is also the best career advice I can give to people who are thinking about transitioning outside of academia. So, next time you meet someone, not a student, not a fellow student, not someone in academia, someone who actually transitioned, then do maybe a little informational interview. Basically, whenever you meet someone who's working in an interesting field of work, you can just ask them what's your job about, what are your duties and responsibilities and tasks and what do you like about your job, or how did you get to this job and what skills are important in your job. It helps you actually gain a better understanding, I would say, of what jobs are out there, and you might even make this, if you ask the people, okay, do you think, well, I'm doing this, and that you can also use this to make a little introduction for yourself. Do you think I would be qualified for this job? Or what else would I need to work in a job like you do? And the last question should also always be can you maybe recommend me some other people I can talk to? This informational interview is a really good exercise to learn more, broaden your knowledge and extend your networks and, last but not least, because you asked me how not to get overwhelmed.
Polina:
19:00
Yes.
Dr Birte Seffert:
19:00
I think it's always important to take the time to self reflect and think of it from a bigger perspective, like what kind of life do you want for yourself? What's important to you? What values do you have? Also learn to get you know yourself better and always try to differentiate between what you, or maybe your parents want, or what society wants, and what you personally want and can do. Allow yourself to think in positive scenarios, to think in opportunities rather than in challenges, and think about what you can do for yourself to open up more options.
Polina:
19:45
You work at the German Scholars Organization, right? Can you tell us more about it? What kind of resources and help is available?
Dr Birte Seffert:
19:55
Yeah, well, so we are a nonprofit in Berlin, actually we exists like 21 years of now. The German Scholars Organization, basically, our mission is to empower researchers and I mean mostly like PhD students towards the end and postdoctoral researchers to build careers in Germany, be it in academia or outside of academia. So, the name German Scholars Organization is a little bit misleading because of course we're not only working with and supporting German nationals, but basically everyone who is in Germany and wants to build their career here. So, what we do is we offer career coaching, career advice, we work with you on your CV and cover letter, we help to prepare for job interviews and also to discuss the questions, should I do this, should I do that, what else is out there, giving people also the time to and some hints to self-reflect. We give workshops, many for universities, research institutions in Germany, and we have a couple of interesting programs for postdoctoral researchers. One is called the Leadership Academy and some other funding programs. We also have a conference. It's called, it has an interesting name, it's called To Be Honest Conference. That's a conference where you can engage with other early career researchers on real career talk behind the scenes of academia, the things that no one tells you in public sometimes, and if you go to our website, that's www. gsonet. org, then you can find more information, or you can also hook up with us on LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram.
Polina:
21:50
Cool, thank you. Could you give us one piece of advice for students and early career researchers?
Dr Birte Seffert:
21:57
You know, start early. I know, as you said, there's never enough time, but I think you y ourself and your future is a very important thing. I mean, it doesn't have to be like an hour every day, but plan it in your schedule, maybe starting like one year before you finish your studies or your PhD, or one year before your time as a postdoctoral researcher ends and use that time to speak to people, to self-reflect also, maybe to browse from time to time job ads, just to see what's out there and how that might resonate with what you're interested in and what you can do, because if you start early, then you can still have time to maybe gain additional experiences or to better your position, to position yourself. Yeah, I think that's like the long-term suggestion and the other one, I would say set yourself up for lucky coincidences by creating opportunities for yourself and creating more options for yourself. Be curious, ask questions, meet people, try once in a while to leave your comfort zone, because you might make surprising discoveries and get new insights about yourself, but also about the world outside of academia.
Polina:
23:25
Right, so you already gave us a very nice little exercise.
Dr Birte Seffert:
23:32
I have one more. I thought about it before and one thing I really like because it doesn't take a lot of time but it helps, I think, to get some inspiration or just a little warm shower of appreciation. So write a text message to five people you know could be friends, family, colleagues, whoever you think knows a little bit about you and tell them in your text message, I'm currently thinking about what I'm going to do after graduation, after my PhD, after finishing my postdoc project, and I would like to ask you which qualities, skills or talents do you see in me, or what do you think I'm really good at, and where do you see myself working in the future, like in what sector, in what role, in what position, what kind of a company? Thank them and send out a text message and wait for replies. Because oftentimes people from the outside see us in a very different way than we do. They see new things. This little exercise might get you some interesting insights into how people perceive you and you can use that for your own self-reflection process. And even if you're invited to a job interview or you have to write a job application, those things you can sometimes weave into your application, because it might be something new that you learned about yourself.
Polina:
25:09
Thank you so much for your advice and practical tips.
Dr Birte Seffert:
25:12
Thank you for having me and good luck with the podcast also.
Polina:
25:16
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