1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,320
Welcome everybody to this week's edition of the Sto Realta show episode number 868 for October 1st,
2
00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:14,800
2026. Obviously a different version of the Sto Realta show. Unfortunately throughout the years we
3
00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:22,000
have had to do these shows when news likes that like this has dropped. We will not be covering
4
00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:29,440
AW all out today. We will not be having our normal show. Instead we are going to be taking the next.
5
00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:36,560
However many minutes this episode is unfortunately remembering the life of Benjamin Pock
6
00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:43,040
Saturday who did wrestle this past Saturday at AW All Out known as Pock and AW Neville,
7
00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:52,800
Adrian Neville and WWE and NXT. This is a heavy one. I don't feel like doing a normal show.
8
00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:57,840
You've got Jeff Peck, you've got Dr. Trey Franklin, Benjamin Saturday knowing around the world
9
00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:03,840
of this Pock and WWE fans as Neville passed away this past Sunday unexpectedly at the age of 40.
10
00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:10,800
I just turned 40 years old myself. AW announced this passing the night after all out. No cause of
11
00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:15,440
death has been publicly disclosed and of course we're not going to be speculating about that on this
12
00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:22,160
week's edition of the podcast by any means or nor anytime soon. Or ever quite honestly. Today is
13
00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:27,120
simply about remembering Ben Pock talking about the rest where we watch for so many years, the moments
14
00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:33,920
that stayed with us and the legacy. He leaves behind. Usually this is where we get into the biggest
15
00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:38,720
stories in wrestling. This week again, neither one of us really wanted to do that after the passing
16
00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:43,120
of Pock, Neville, the man that gravity forgot. It didn't feel right to talk about anything else
17
00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:50,960
so this episode is just us remembering him. Dr. Trey, heavy show, heavy thing to go through.
18
00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:58,400
Sadly we've we've been through this way too many times as wrestling fans as hosts of a wrestling
19
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:04,400
podcast. Here we are again. What was your immediate reaction when you heard the news about Pock passing
20
00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:12,560
away on Sunday night? I think I got to feel worked through Twitter and then immediately everybody was
21
00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:18,400
on there saying, "Oh it's fake news, it's a hoax, AEW, I act." And it was just shocking because like you
22
00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:27,520
said, he had just wrestled an incredible match at all out. And you know, just kind of monitoring it
23
00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:33,040
through the evening. I mean, although it did come out officially on the AEW website officially first
24
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:42,720
really, it was just so shocking. It's just like you couldn't believe it was true and then of course,
25
00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:48,320
you know, the way the internet does with their whole life. It's a hoax, it's fake. You know, Wikipedia says
26
00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:56,720
this or Google said this. It wasn't everything updated that it kind of sank in that, you know, it's
27
00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:03,760
real. It's it's truth. It's not a hoax. But you know, I'm sitting here, you know, four days after
28
00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:10,640
it's announced and it still feels unreal. Like you're still just kind of like, I can't believe
29
00:03:10,640 --> 00:03:15,840
that really happened. And it may not be until, you know, Fordous Closure Record the show on Wednesday,
30
00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:22,960
but in Dynamite air tonight, it may not be until I sit down and watch Dynamite tonight that it really
31
00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:31,200
kind of fully sets in that the world lost lost this man. Like just, you know, one of the better
32
00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:38,320
in-ring talents of a generation. I'm sure we'll get born to all that stuff here. I love it. But like,
33
00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:45,520
yeah, as of right now, it still just kind of feels not real and unsettling in a lot of ways as well.
34
00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:52,320
Yeah, I'm really numb to it. I saw the news about like 50 minutes after it dropped on
35
00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:58,800
AW social media channels and I just happened to open up Twitter, saw it and I was like, wait, what?
36
00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:05,120
Like I saw the graphic. I'm like, what does this say? And it was just numb to it. I mean,
37
00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:10,880
and you look at the date. So I'm born and I'm 40 years old, like I mentioned, you look at the date's
38
00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:19,040
1986, 2026 and it's like, wow, life is precious. You think about your own mortality. You think about like,
39
00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:23,680
did something, was there an injury at all out the night before that caused this? Like, how was he found?
40
00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:29,440
What, how long has this been going on? Like, would you have health issues? Is this real? Like,
41
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:34,720
you just jumped to so many conclusions and you're like scatterbrain looking to see if this is
42
00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:40,160
fabricated or not, then you're seeing like, you know, some of the leading folks in the wrestling journalism
43
00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:48,400
game like Sean Ross Sapp and John Albagoon Live talking about it. And it was, it was difficult to take in.
44
00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:54,400
I mean, it's a human being. It's someone who has a wife. I don't believe he had any children.
45
00:04:54,400 --> 00:05:00,640
Had a lot of bonds with people that he was on the road with. From everything that we're reading,
46
00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:07,520
was a fantastic and one of a kind human being. But while you want to give flowers in post-mortem,
47
00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:13,840
you don't at the same moment. You want to say those things when, when people are here about what
48
00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:19,040
they mean to you and how much they, how much you cherish them while they're here. And we always
49
00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:23,360
seem to be doing that when it's, when it's after the fact, you know, all of us that live in Linnlis
50
00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:28,640
into this podcast or part of this podcast, Dr. Trena, we've all experienced loss. And
51
00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:38,080
in the wrestling community, it's a weird thing because you, at least for me, you get tied to these people,
52
00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:43,680
you read up on their careers, you watch them grow as human beings. Like there is no other form of
53
00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:50,240
entertainment that's like that. Like when someone starts their baseball career, you don't see them in
54
00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:55,280
Little League and they make it to the majors and your heart is full for them. When they play the NFL,
55
00:05:55,280 --> 00:05:59,440
you don't see them playing Pop Warner and Flag Football and they make it to the NFL someday.
56
00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:05,360
You watch these men and women in professional wrestling, enter the ring for the very first time
57
00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:12,000
after being trained and performing and getting better over time and then taking their talents to the
58
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:17,520
next level, which in Pox case was in WWE as Neville and then later back on the independent
59
00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:22,160
wrestling scene in Back in A.W. as Pox. Like, and I remember hearing about him, I went back to some
60
00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:26,880
of the early shows that we, we covered here and we used to have a gentleman named UK Sue who was
61
00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:34,080
this big British wrestling fan and I remember him and a former guy that would come on the show a
62
00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:38,240
lot big time Benning Lopez, who's a big wrestling fan, lives here in the United States, them talking
63
00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,480
about, we were doing like a wrestling roundtable and talking about Pock. You know, people didn't know
64
00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:47,440
if it was Pock or Pock basically and how big he was on the British wrestling scene and this was
65
00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,640
like the infancy stages of the internet where you would just have to find stuff either through tape
66
00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:55,680
trading still or on message boards or on YouTube. I mean, there wasn't as what it is today where you
67
00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:00,480
could go on to a streaming service and watch, you know, a wrestling promotion that is out in London
68
00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:05,520
or in Germany. And that's how you kind of learned a lot about him or you'd read about him up on
69
00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:12,800
PWInsider or oneRustling.com and that's how it was and it's a beautiful sport in that way Dr.
70
00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:19,040
Tre where you see these people grow from their very first matches to their unfortunately last match
71
00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:25,600
and there's a connection between the wrestlers and fans that is kind of unsaid but when spoken
72
00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:30,400
out loud it's truly a beautiful thing and that's all I could kind of think about when I think about
73
00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:36,320
Pock because he's almost like a distant family member that you don't know but you know something about
74
00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:44,480
as a wrestling fan. And me being somewhat in the inner wrestling community is kind of like the
75
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:50,720
older seven degrees of Kevin Bacon but when you're inside the business it's like two.
76
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:56,000
You know I'm literally like they're not just like having this all happen I'm like I'm watching
77
00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:02,480
like guys I'm friends with like post these heartfelt messages about you know their experiences
78
00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:09,520
with Pock and you know it's just like damn like in you your heart goes that even more because you know
79
00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:16,640
people you care about are hurting because you know of his passing it just it
80
00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:22,160
once it kind of puts everything in perspective like you know you're mentioning earlier like you
81
00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:28,640
just turned 40 I turned 50 next year like this this guy's you know this young man's like 10 years
82
00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:34,480
younger than me and I'm like yeah he's traveled the world and he's seen a lot of stuff but I'm like yeah
83
00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:41,200
it's amazing I'm still here and that person is gone so you get a little bit of like survivor guilt
84
00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:48,960
off of it in a sense well but you know it's it's it's weird sometimes when when we lose somebody in
85
00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:55,360
this business and you see a lot of outpouring of love but then there are people who are quiet about
86
00:08:55,360 --> 00:09:00,320
it it's like okay maybe those people are just kind of holding their tongue because they didn't like
87
00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:07,200
this person it's this has been uniformly like you know just one of the nicest sweetest guys in
88
00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:14,720
in wrestling and you know it's ironic and tragic that one of the last things he posts it was his
89
00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:19,920
picture with the butcher you know from just you know they just posted just a couple weeks ago after
90
00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:26,400
the butcher's passing it's just it's heartbreaking in the sense of losing somebody who's so
91
00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:31,520
incredibly talented way before we should have lost them it's heartbreaking when I see people that
92
00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:37,600
I love and I care about hurting so badly because we lost this person is just sad for the
93
00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:43,920
wrestling community's whole because you know we went through this kind of in the early 2000s where we
94
00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:50,080
lost a bunch of guys you know you know the British Bulldog and all these guys you know they run the
95
00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:56,000
same time and then we had a reprieve and it just kind of feels like the last year and a half has
96
00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:04,000
been like no we're getting back into that that circle again and it's just like man like it's just
97
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:10,480
succing all these people that we kind of look up to and admire and cherish and you know just
98
00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:18,400
losing their lives way before it's really time what was the first pock novel moment that came into
99
00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:26,960
your mind as you kind of reminisce about him dr. tre so I knew absolutely nothing about pock really
100
00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:33,920
until he got to NXT like I would read about him and it was almost like big foot of sense I make
101
00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:38,160
these jokes sometimes where it's like yeah there are rumors of this really talented British guy
102
00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:45,760
doesn't crazy aerial stuff but I could never see him like I would get these videos and it'd be kind
103
00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:51,840
of blurry or grainy or they're just shot in a weird angle and you just you're like okay that guy
104
00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:58,000
seems cool just don't know about him you know and you and I when when we first started to show like
105
00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:06,240
I was watching NXT on YouTube before got moved to the network and and I kind of break up NXT
106
00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:11,520
there's like the YouTube air which to me is defined by bodalis and then there's the original
107
00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:20,160
network launch which to me is defined by Neville and Sammy's ain't and that first when he first
108
00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:27,200
debuted in NXT I was like man first of all he's way smaller than I thought he was going to be I hear
109
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,200
about him on the internet and you hear like guys like you case two and these guys talking about him
110
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,760
first you're like man this guy's larger than life like he's a real life superhero and then you
111
00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:45,280
see me like he's like 5'8" and 170 pounds he's like this flying ball of muscle with these really
112
00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:51,920
pointy ears I kind of thought like he was part elf when I first saw him I was like well maybe this is
113
00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:58,240
when Peter Jackson wrote Lord of the Rings Neville was the guy he was using the typecast you know
114
00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:03,600
some of these people but you see him in the ring and you're like man this guy is incredible
115
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:09,840
so though those first early matches in NXT when they got just basically kind of showcase
116
00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:15,840
his talents but then really that latter match with bow Dallas for the NXT championship was a
117
00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:22,240
kind of really kind of like set it off from like now this guy's incredible like I I think you and I
118
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:26,320
you can go back and look at the history of the show like I always said like I never thought WWE
119
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:32,800
would use him right because of his size but NXT he was used right and it made a ton of sense and
120
00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,960
but that first latter match with bow Dallas where he won the NXT championship was really kind of
121
00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:44,480
what cemented my fandom for Pock. Let's look at the journey here for Pock so he's born in Newcastle
122
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:52,240
upon Ty and England began his professional wrestling career in 2004 built his reputation
123
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:57,120
international and long before WWE wrestled across the British scene dragging AWG and around the world
124
00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:02,800
his athleticism was the obvious hook but what's separated was how precise everything looked
125
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:10,400
the spectacular never-loved reckless with Pock/Nevil the black arrow became one of wrestling
126
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:15,840
became one of wrestling's most recognizable finishing moves the corkscrew shooting star press
127
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:20,560
like in the late 90s the shooting star press was already a difficult move and here he is doing a
128
00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:27,120
corkscrew shooting star press he had a rivalry with ricochet a Pock and ricochet became defining
129
00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:33,040
rivals during their dragging eight years in November 2011 ricochet ended Pock's 447 day
130
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:38,000
opened the brave gate championship reign that rivalry became part of the blueprint for the explosive
131
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:42,080
athletic style that would become increasingly influential throughout wrestling today.
132
00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:46,880
What stood out about Pock he could do things athletically that very few wrestlers could do but he
133
00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:53,680
was never only a quote "high flyer" it was power intensity, technical wrestling, selling, pacing
134
00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:58,560
and character work that eventually made him one of the most complete wrestlers of his generation.
135
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:05,200
Dr. Trey was there ever another wrestler whose movement in the ring looked quite like his?
136
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:19,120
This sounds bad. The closest thing I am not on the high flying level but the way his movement
137
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:26,160
in the ring was Chris Benoit. Everything was so Chris. I think there were lurid times watching
138
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:34,800
level or a K-A Pock that I'm like is he really hitting this guy? Is it like he blurred the line?
139
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:42,000
A lot of times in the ring between that like is this real? Is this fake? Because everything he did was
140
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:50,400
so Chris so clean so violent looking but in a lot of ways like really beautifully artistically
141
00:14:50,400 --> 00:15:00,400
done. Like he was to me like when you talk about like the artistry of pro wrestling Pock is an artist
142
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:06,720
like everything he did was just that beautiful blend of violence and poetry at the same time.
143
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:16,480
Yeah no he is he's in an eggma. His style in the ring is unmatched and I like the comparisons.
144
00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:24,720
It reminds me of Benoit, Dynamite Kid, that short, stocky muscular person just like this muscle hamster
145
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:32,320
that's out there and he was able to evolve where he was just this short skinny with muscle still
146
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:38,320
high flyer into a walking muscle that could do things in the ring that you've never seen before.
147
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:45,040
Truly exceptional. Always love the character work. Loved how much he kept K-Fabe in the last,
148
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:50,240
I would say 8 to 10 years of his career when he was in NXT and it was the man that gravity
149
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,320
forgot he was a baby face that was a very good baby face. When he started becoming the king of the
150
00:15:54,320 --> 00:16:01,120
Cruiserweights and turned heel one of a kind. They put that cape on him for a little bit and then when
151
00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:06,800
he started doing King of the Cruiserweights which basically morphed into who he was towards the end
152
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:17,040
of his career. It's just such a fun overall character and for me my real first introduction to him
153
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:24,640
like you Dr. Trey was those NXT years. So Pock Neville signed with WWE in 2012 becoming
154
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:30,560
an agey Neville. He was an NXT Tag Team Champion and NXT Champion. He held the NXT Championship
155
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:36,000
for 286 days from February 27th which was that launch for the WWE Network when they did NXT
156
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:41,360
arrival where he defeated Bodeals in that latter match to December 11th 2014 where he dropped the
157
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:46,720
title to I believe Samisane. His Championship run came during the era when NXT was transforming from
158
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:52,880
developmental television to the brand's brand that fans become passionate about today. His title
159
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:57,760
lost to Samisane and NXT takeover our evolution in December remains connected to one of the defying
160
00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:04,080
stories of early NXT. He debuted on WWE's main roster in 2015 to solely his Neville. They dropped
161
00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:09,840
Adrian WWE market him as the man that gravity forgot. His red arrow immediately gave WWE
162
00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:15,280
something visually different from almost anyone else on the roster. He reinvented himself as a heal
163
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:19,360
and became the King of the Cruiserweights, won the WWE Cruiserweights Championship twice, first reign
164
00:17:19,360 --> 00:17:25,360
last in 196 days. The character showed a completely different side of him, bitter, intense, vicious
165
00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:29,760
and most importantly believable. It proved he could be much more than a spectacular athlete
166
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:35,280
WWE originally presented. What stood out for him there were two very two very different WWE
167
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:40,480
versions of Benjamin Sattelay worth remembering. Adrian Neville, the breathtaking babyface who
168
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:45,760
helped establish NXT and then Neville, the angry King of the Cruiserweights who showed how good his
169
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:53,200
character work would be. Dr. Trey, which WWE version of Neville did you enjoy the most?
170
00:17:53,200 --> 00:18:01,920
>> Well, naturally the villain in me loved the King of the Cruiserweights version of Neville more.
171
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:13,200
I like the pissed off angry guy because it's hard to be an undersized heal without a stable around
172
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:19,200
you. In the rest of me, calm the heaters. You get the small, pocket arrogant heal and then he's
173
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:26,560
got the big muscle guy behind him. Neville never had that. He didn't need it. Now in WWE's
174
00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:33,040
defense in a sense, they kept him in the Cruiserweights division where he was physically on par with
175
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:39,840
everybody else. But that run, especially when he brought in the brutalizer as a finisher, you're
176
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:47,360
just like man, that realism in the character. It felt so natural for me, so pissed off and angry
177
00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:56,160
and bitter. It just fit him so well, which was kind of a surprising twist because the Adrian Neville
178
00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:00,960
character, the high-flying baby face, it never showed any inkling of that. But that Neville,
179
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:08,320
brutalizer, King of the Cruiserweights, that guy, it was really like to this day. There are very
180
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:15,680
few characters that I watch and I go I wouldn't mess with that guy. That version of Neville was that guy.
181
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:21,120
I'm like yeah, that guy just looks too pissed off, too angry, too muscular and too athletic for me to
182
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:29,840
even fathom competing against in anything. It was as close to real life characterization as I've
183
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:37,040
seen in wrestling in a long time. Yeah, that was him in a nutshell. I mean he was one of a kind.
184
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:46,000
He was truly, again, I just used the word enigma when I think of him and I loved, really now, again,
185
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,920
here we are throwing our flowers for it's in, but when you think about the character adjustments he made
186
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:56,080
in WWE, I mean it's phenomenal. He went from one end of the spectrum of being like this comic book hero
187
00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:04,240
to the bastard that we ended up seeing in AEW. And that's where it takes us here, Dr. Trey, and this next
188
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:11,760
chapter as we remember, Pock Benjamin Saddley was his time in AEW. He joined AEW in 2019.
189
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:17,920
As one of the promotions important early signings, he was red hot on the independent wrestling scene. He
190
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,920
had not lost on the independent wrestling scene and there was like a little bit of a
191
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,560
cripple about him and his feud with Hangman out of page because he didn't want to lose to Hangman
192
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:32,320
Page and like there was something where he was gone for AEW for a little bit and maybe talking
193
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:39,040
in WWE about a return, then eventually came back to AEW. The name Pock returned but the presentation
194
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:43,360
was completely different from WWE's Neville. The bastard felt like the fully realized version of
195
00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:49,840
everything he could do, a lead athlete, dangerous wrestler and believable character. There was the
196
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:54,560
death triangle triangle, his partnership with Penton Ray Phoenix became one of AEW's most memorable
197
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:59,760
trios. Death triangle gave AEW three wrestlers with widely different personalities who somehow fit
198
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:05,600
together perfectly. Pock later became a two-time AEW World Trios Champion. Remember that
199
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:10,720
that was Trio Swar, the vest of seven between them and the elite that was a lot of fun with the
200
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:17,200
NBA on NBC music playing every time they would promote it. He made history at Forbidden Door 2022,
201
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:22,560
Pock defeated Malachi Black, Mirro and Clark Connors to become the inaugural AEW All-Annic Championship.
202
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:27,600
That championship was later renamed to today the AEW International Championship. In his later
203
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:32,080
years he eventually became part of the Death Riders, even after years on television he gets up into
204
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:37,040
virtually any match and immediately feel credible against anyone. His final match, the Dr. Trey
205
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,520
talked about the beginning there, came at AEW all out this past Saturday September 26th,
206
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,960
where he challenged on Dr. A. L. Edelow for the AEW National Championship.
207
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:50,160
It's very difficult to process that one of the last images wrestling fans have of him is still
208
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:56,960
doing what he had done for more than two decades, performing at the highest level in a championship match.
209
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:04,240
What stood out for Pock, AEW never needed to explain why Pock was dangerous. Fans believed at the moment
210
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:12,080
he walked through the curtain. Dr. Trey, what Pock match rivalry or death triangle moment will
211
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:17,280
you go back and watch first as you kind of go back and remember Pock and all the wrestling?
212
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:24,000
Actually, one of the first matches I went back and watched was from all out 2024 that match with
213
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:32,000
the Will Ospreay. That was a fantastic match. It got overshadowed because that was Swarven Hangman
214
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:38,160
were on that show, a couple of bigger matches, but that match, kind of to me, was the launch of Will
215
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:47,360
Ospreay to where he's at now. You and I have thrown out the phrase like the best soldier in a company.
216
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:54,960
Bench and Chris Jericho in the past, Ray and Jordan, levels that guy for AEW. When you're trying to
217
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:59,040
get somebody over, you put them in the ring of the level. They're going to have a great match. People
218
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:06,560
inherently wanted to boo, level, AKA Pock, sorry, but it launched a lot of guys, but that match
219
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:12,480
with Ospreay last year was fantastic. I think I actually read that that was the only
220
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:19,280
Meltzer-Given 5-star match of Pock's career. Some people say it was because of Ospreay, but that
221
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:26,480
match, you go back and watch, it was just incredible. Was it the Iron Man match he had with Hangman?
222
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:36,000
Also back in like 2022, I think it was. It was really good. Man, his match with Orange Cassidy,
223
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:41,600
with that rivalry he had with Orange, was really underrated because it was just so two totally
224
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:49,120
different styles. I saw somebody refer to as the Bugs Bunny Wrestling Style of Orange Cassidy
225
00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:57,440
versus the Tony soprano wrestling style of Pock, where it's just like comic versus like just
226
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:06,000
serious, going to just try to kill you. Even that match, I'm sure it'll get maybe some undo
227
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,160
love later on because it was last match, but even that match with Andrade Saturday night was
228
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:15,360
fantastic as well, but that was just a couple of the ones I gave him top of my head from his A.E.W. Run.
229
00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:19,680
Did AW give us the best overall version of Pock in your mind?
230
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:28,480
I think they gave us the best character version of Pock we could get, like the presentation when
231
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:33,200
he first debuted, and then, you know, Justin Roberts the way he announced it, and everything
232
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:41,680
else. I think it gave it the best character presentation you could do. He is bastard.
233
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:50,800
Yeah, that was so good, you know. And I think it was Marina or somebody like Ermai Ben Asprey
234
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:57,360
said he's our bastard. Like I love that. Getting a little choked up thinking about that.
235
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:07,360
You and I had talked about like I was waiting for the Pock Claudio to kick Moxley out the death
236
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:13,520
writers angle, which I'm sure was going to come around at some point. I got really excited a few
237
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:19,840
months ago when they did Pock in Claudio versus Cajun Cope because I was like, man, I'd love to see Claudio
238
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:26,960
in Pock just be a full-time tag team because their styles would have blended together so well.
239
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:34,320
We got instances of it, but you know, it was always kind of like Pock and Udo or Claudio and Garcia.
240
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:42,080
It was never just Pock and Claudio. So I still think there was a lot to do with the Pock character,
241
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:48,480
but presentation-wise, I think AIDA, if you had a home run with that character and how they presented it,
242
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:53,440
and how he showcased what he really wanted that character to become.
243
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,720
Let's talk a little bit about how the wrestling world has responded, Tony Khan said,
244
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:03,520
Benjamin Sattelay defined excellent praising his wrestling knowledge, athleticism, professionalism,
245
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,400
consistency, and dedication to the sport. We'll ask for a call from the greatest expert from our
246
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,800
country and describe Pock as a hero. Tributes have come from wrestlers of promotion across the
247
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:18,560
industry and not just AIDW, WWE opened both Raw and NXT with Memorial Graphics honoring Neville/Pock.
248
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,480
Penta, Becky Lynch, and Bailey were among those who publicly honored him on Raw.
249
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,840
The Rock also joined the many people throughout wrestling and paying tribute.
250
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:33,680
AIDW has the addition of Dynamite dedicated to him this evening. We are recording this before
251
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:38,480
that show airs. So if you're listening to this on Thursday, that's why it may sound a little bit
252
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:44,080
different with that show not already taking place. As Dr. Trenor recorded this, Will Osprey versus
253
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:49,200
Reckashe 2 wrestlers whose careers are deeply connected to Pock was announced specifically as a match
254
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:57,920
in his honor. This is the legacy of Benjamin Sattelay that will be showcased. He wrestled for more than
255
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:03,520
two decades, helped to find an air of NXT. He became one of WWE's most memorable cruiser weights.
256
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:09,040
He became an important part of AIDW from its earliest years. He influenced a generation of wrestlers
257
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:14,080
who saw that size that not limit him how believable, physical, or spectacular a wrestler could be.
258
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:18,800
And perhaps the most telling part of the reaction to his passing is how many people have talked
259
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:27,040
about Ben, the person, not just Pock, the wrestler. Dr. Trenor's, we look at final reflections here.
260
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,600
What made Pock special to you as a wrestling fan?
261
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:42,720
As a babyface, he was defined by the plucky underdog super hero abilities that kids look up to.
262
00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:49,920
You talk about defining a generation 20 years. I mean, you go back his debut in 2012. I mean, that's 14
263
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:55,120
years ago. There are kids now who are breaking into wrestling at 20 years old who saw him when they were
264
00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:59,840
six. That's one of those influences. That's one of those guys they could look and go, hey, I'm
265
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:07,360
under six foot tall. I'm under 200 pounds. But I could do this. I could be like this person.
266
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,840
Ray Mysterio defined those guys for the generation that you and I grew up in. Neville's one of those guys
267
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:22,560
that can define it for this generation. As a heel to be that small, but to be just like
268
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:31,440
just an utter pit bull of tenacity. Like you just you knew if if Pock was in that match,
269
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,920
it was going to be hard hitting. It was going to be physical. It was going to feel uncomfortable
270
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:43,440
at times. And for guys like us that still love old school wrestling where it felt like you were
271
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,840
about to watch a fight. If Pock was in the ring, you felt like it was going to be a fight.
272
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:54,480
You know, older guys like us, we bitch and complain about we don't like the flippy wrestling. We
273
00:28:54,480 --> 00:29:00,240
don't like all the high flying stuff. I never had that issue with Pock. I could watch a Pock
274
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,240
match any day of the week. And even though there's going to be some crazy high flying spots,
275
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:11,120
it made sense for what he was doing as a character. So I think the biggest legacy for him is just going
276
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:17,760
to be kind of helping redefine this current generation of wrestling we're watching and setting the
277
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:22,800
bar really, really high. So that when people don't measure up guys like you and me get to call them out
278
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:32,400
on it. Yeah, he is he's a special special wrestler. Again, defined a generation. There's
279
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,640
there's there's many of them that are out there, but I don't know if we ever have a ricochet if
280
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:42,320
there's no Pock. I don't know if we ever have a Will Osprey if there's no Pock. I don't know if we
281
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:50,480
have the athleticism, the move set that he brought to the forefront and defined that is now what I
282
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:56,320
would refer to as almost normal nowadays. Well, about 20 plus years ago, it wasn't normal. It wasn't
283
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:04,560
normal to do a corkscrew shooting star press. It wasn't normal to do flips and be a tight technical
284
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:11,920
wrestler given his size when you were that size that like Pock and Benjamin Sattelay was. It was
285
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:17,040
you were defined strictly as a high flyer and not someone that could be this snap mirror takedown,
286
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:23,040
snap suplex, vicious pit bull as you said or bulldog in that ring with a defined
287
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:30,720
character that was believable. Given his size, he's probably in height around the same height as
288
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:38,240
Dr. Trainai, maybe smaller, but I would be scared, shitless if I was in a dark alley with Pock.
289
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:44,160
What's really cool to hear about is that character that we saw on TV, that bastard, that king of the
290
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:49,360
cruiser weights, that man that gravity forgot was not the same person that was off the screen.
291
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:56,720
That person off the screen was someone who is beloved, someone that is appreciated and someone who will
292
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:02,880
be deeply missed. He will be deeply missed by all of his co-workers, the people that worked with
293
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:10,560
him, the people that knew him, and he will be deeply missed by his fans. There's really no easy way to
294
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,720
close out these episodes, Dr. Trainai. I'm going to withhold from doing our plugs and spots this week
295
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:23,200
because I don't find that to be very appropriate right now. Before we do close up, this week's edition
296
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:28,720
the show, any final thoughts in regards to our member and seer of Benjamin Pock, sadly.
297
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:34,160
The people that you mentioned, the ricochet is the boss phrase, take a guy like Javan Evans.
298
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:42,640
Javan Evans is 20 years old, 21. That's the people we're talking about. That's the generation of wrestling
299
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:49,360
that is defined and influenced by Pock. Our people like Javan Evans, who, six years old,
300
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:56,800
is when Neville joined WWE. That's about the time he said he became a wrestling fan.
301
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:04,240
So seeing guys do the stuff that Neville/Pock could do in a ring is what influenced guys like Javan
302
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:10,240
Evans. And Neville would say he was influenced by guys like the Dynamite Kid.
303
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:18,160
Those are the ones that last forever. You and I have told stories to friends and younger people about
304
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,240
like, "Oh my God, you think that's high-tech, right? Go back and watch tapes of the British Bulldogs."
305
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:27,120
That's going to be the Javan Evans Deville Ospreys. You think, "I'm good, man. You need to go
306
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:35,200
back and watch tapes of Pock when he was in Dragon Gator, PWG, or check out this." Those things like that
307
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:42,640
define wrestling, but the person he was, you see the outpouring of love from everybody around.
308
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:49,440
There's nobody being quiet about this. Everybody's saying how much they love him. If the rock comes out
309
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:56,160
and says, "Give flowers to a guy like Pock," you know. And rock never crossed paths with him from as far as
310
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:04,800
I know. But that's the kind of person that Benjamin Saturday was. So his wrestling legacy is well
311
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,760
defined, but as a person, the outpouring of love and support just shows what the measure of the man
312
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:15,120
really was. Dynamite's going to be a heavy show. Most people, you all are listening to this after you
313
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:20,400
probably seen that show. We have not seen it yet. We are recording it on Wednesday. This is where we
314
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:27,440
typically record the show for the time being. It's going to be a beautiful tribute. I wish we didn't
315
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:32,880
have to watch it by any means, but it's going to be emotional night for wrestling fans and wrestlers
316
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:40,160
around the world and the wrestling community in general. So there isn't really a perfect way to end
317
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:46,160
an episode like this. We will be back next week with our normal run and talk about everything going
318
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:51,360
on wrestling. But for now, it did not feel appropriate to talk about anything other than this when we
319
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:57,120
lose a member of our wrestling community and family. Someone that is so impactful and important to
320
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:02,720
all of us in Benjamin Park, sadly. So rather than to summarize our career that took Benjamin
321
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:08,880
sadly all over the world, we'll just say thank you. Thank you for the matches. Thank you for the
322
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:15,520
moments. Thank you for everything you gave professional wrestling. Rest in peace, Ben.
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,320
Welcome everybody to this week's edition of the Sto Realta show episode number 868 for October 1st,
2
00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:14,800
2026. Obviously a different version of the Sto Realta show. Unfortunately throughout the years we
3
00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:22,000
have had to do these shows when news likes that like this has dropped. We will not be covering
4
00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:29,440
AW all out today. We will not be having our normal show. Instead we are going to be taking the next.
5
00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:36,560
However many minutes this episode is unfortunately remembering the life of Benjamin Pock
6
00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:43,040
Saturday who did wrestle this past Saturday at AW All Out known as Pock and AW Neville,
7
00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:52,800
Adrian Neville and WWE and NXT. This is a heavy one. I don't feel like doing a normal show.
8
00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:57,840
You've got Jeff Peck, you've got Dr. Trey Franklin, Benjamin Saturday knowing around the world
9
00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:03,840
of this Pock and WWE fans as Neville passed away this past Sunday unexpectedly at the age of 40.
10
00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:10,800
I just turned 40 years old myself. AW announced this passing the night after all out. No cause of
11
00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:15,440
death has been publicly disclosed and of course we're not going to be speculating about that on this
12
00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:22,160
week's edition of the podcast by any means or nor anytime soon. Or ever quite honestly. Today is
13
00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:27,120
simply about remembering Ben Pock talking about the rest where we watch for so many years, the moments
14
00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:33,920
that stayed with us and the legacy. He leaves behind. Usually this is where we get into the biggest
15
00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:38,720
stories in wrestling. This week again, neither one of us really wanted to do that after the passing
16
00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:43,120
of Pock, Neville, the man that gravity forgot. It didn't feel right to talk about anything else
17
00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:50,960
so this episode is just us remembering him. Dr. Trey, heavy show, heavy thing to go through.
18
00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:58,400
Sadly we've we've been through this way too many times as wrestling fans as hosts of a wrestling
19
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:04,400
podcast. Here we are again. What was your immediate reaction when you heard the news about Pock passing
20
00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:12,560
away on Sunday night? I think I got to feel worked through Twitter and then immediately everybody was
21
00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:18,400
on there saying, "Oh it's fake news, it's a hoax, AEW, I act." And it was just shocking because like you
22
00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:27,520
said, he had just wrestled an incredible match at all out. And you know, just kind of monitoring it
23
00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:33,040
through the evening. I mean, although it did come out officially on the AEW website officially first
24
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:42,720
really, it was just so shocking. It's just like you couldn't believe it was true and then of course,
25
00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:48,320
you know, the way the internet does with their whole life. It's a hoax, it's fake. You know, Wikipedia says
26
00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:56,720
this or Google said this. It wasn't everything updated that it kind of sank in that, you know, it's
27
00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:03,760
real. It's it's truth. It's not a hoax. But you know, I'm sitting here, you know, four days after
28
00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:10,640
it's announced and it still feels unreal. Like you're still just kind of like, I can't believe
29
00:03:10,640 --> 00:03:15,840
that really happened. And it may not be until, you know, Fordous Closure Record the show on Wednesday,
30
00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:22,960
but in Dynamite air tonight, it may not be until I sit down and watch Dynamite tonight that it really
31
00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:31,200
kind of fully sets in that the world lost lost this man. Like just, you know, one of the better
32
00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:38,320
in-ring talents of a generation. I'm sure we'll get born to all that stuff here. I love it. But like,
33
00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:45,520
yeah, as of right now, it still just kind of feels not real and unsettling in a lot of ways as well.
34
00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:52,320
Yeah, I'm really numb to it. I saw the news about like 50 minutes after it dropped on
35
00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:58,800
AW social media channels and I just happened to open up Twitter, saw it and I was like, wait, what?
36
00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:05,120
Like I saw the graphic. I'm like, what does this say? And it was just numb to it. I mean,
37
00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:10,880
and you look at the date. So I'm born and I'm 40 years old, like I mentioned, you look at the date's
38
00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:19,040
1986, 2026 and it's like, wow, life is precious. You think about your own mortality. You think about like,
39
00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:23,680
did something, was there an injury at all out the night before that caused this? Like, how was he found?
40
00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:29,440
What, how long has this been going on? Like, would you have health issues? Is this real? Like,
41
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:34,720
you just jumped to so many conclusions and you're like scatterbrain looking to see if this is
42
00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:40,160
fabricated or not, then you're seeing like, you know, some of the leading folks in the wrestling journalism
43
00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:48,400
game like Sean Ross Sapp and John Albagoon Live talking about it. And it was, it was difficult to take in.
44
00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:54,400
I mean, it's a human being. It's someone who has a wife. I don't believe he had any children.
45
00:04:54,400 --> 00:05:00,640
Had a lot of bonds with people that he was on the road with. From everything that we're reading,
46
00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:07,520
was a fantastic and one of a kind human being. But while you want to give flowers in post-mortem,
47
00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:13,840
you don't at the same moment. You want to say those things when, when people are here about what
48
00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:19,040
they mean to you and how much they, how much you cherish them while they're here. And we always
49
00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:23,360
seem to be doing that when it's, when it's after the fact, you know, all of us that live in Linnlis
50
00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:28,640
into this podcast or part of this podcast, Dr. Trena, we've all experienced loss. And
51
00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:38,080
in the wrestling community, it's a weird thing because you, at least for me, you get tied to these people,
52
00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:43,680
you read up on their careers, you watch them grow as human beings. Like there is no other form of
53
00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:50,240
entertainment that's like that. Like when someone starts their baseball career, you don't see them in
54
00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:55,280
Little League and they make it to the majors and your heart is full for them. When they play the NFL,
55
00:05:55,280 --> 00:05:59,440
you don't see them playing Pop Warner and Flag Football and they make it to the NFL someday.
56
00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:05,360
You watch these men and women in professional wrestling, enter the ring for the very first time
57
00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:12,000
after being trained and performing and getting better over time and then taking their talents to the
58
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:17,520
next level, which in Pox case was in WWE as Neville and then later back on the independent
59
00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:22,160
wrestling scene in Back in A.W. as Pox. Like, and I remember hearing about him, I went back to some
60
00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:26,880
of the early shows that we, we covered here and we used to have a gentleman named UK Sue who was
61
00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:34,080
this big British wrestling fan and I remember him and a former guy that would come on the show a
62
00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:38,240
lot big time Benning Lopez, who's a big wrestling fan, lives here in the United States, them talking
63
00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,480
about, we were doing like a wrestling roundtable and talking about Pock. You know, people didn't know
64
00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:47,440
if it was Pock or Pock basically and how big he was on the British wrestling scene and this was
65
00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,640
like the infancy stages of the internet where you would just have to find stuff either through tape
66
00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:55,680
trading still or on message boards or on YouTube. I mean, there wasn't as what it is today where you
67
00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:00,480
could go on to a streaming service and watch, you know, a wrestling promotion that is out in London
68
00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:05,520
or in Germany. And that's how you kind of learned a lot about him or you'd read about him up on
69
00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:12,800
PWInsider or oneRustling.com and that's how it was and it's a beautiful sport in that way Dr.
70
00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:19,040
Tre where you see these people grow from their very first matches to their unfortunately last match
71
00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:25,600
and there's a connection between the wrestlers and fans that is kind of unsaid but when spoken
72
00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:30,400
out loud it's truly a beautiful thing and that's all I could kind of think about when I think about
73
00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:36,320
Pock because he's almost like a distant family member that you don't know but you know something about
74
00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:44,480
as a wrestling fan. And me being somewhat in the inner wrestling community is kind of like the
75
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:50,720
older seven degrees of Kevin Bacon but when you're inside the business it's like two.
76
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:56,000
You know I'm literally like they're not just like having this all happen I'm like I'm watching
77
00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:02,480
like guys I'm friends with like post these heartfelt messages about you know their experiences
78
00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:09,520
with Pock and you know it's just like damn like in you your heart goes that even more because you know
79
00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:16,640
people you care about are hurting because you know of his passing it just it
80
00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:22,160
once it kind of puts everything in perspective like you know you're mentioning earlier like you
81
00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:28,640
just turned 40 I turned 50 next year like this this guy's you know this young man's like 10 years
82
00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:34,480
younger than me and I'm like yeah he's traveled the world and he's seen a lot of stuff but I'm like yeah
83
00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:41,200
it's amazing I'm still here and that person is gone so you get a little bit of like survivor guilt
84
00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:48,960
off of it in a sense well but you know it's it's it's weird sometimes when when we lose somebody in
85
00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:55,360
this business and you see a lot of outpouring of love but then there are people who are quiet about
86
00:08:55,360 --> 00:09:00,320
it it's like okay maybe those people are just kind of holding their tongue because they didn't like
87
00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:07,200
this person it's this has been uniformly like you know just one of the nicest sweetest guys in
88
00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:14,720
in wrestling and you know it's ironic and tragic that one of the last things he posts it was his
89
00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:19,920
picture with the butcher you know from just you know they just posted just a couple weeks ago after
90
00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:26,400
the butcher's passing it's just it's heartbreaking in the sense of losing somebody who's so
91
00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:31,520
incredibly talented way before we should have lost them it's heartbreaking when I see people that
92
00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:37,600
I love and I care about hurting so badly because we lost this person is just sad for the
93
00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:43,920
wrestling community's whole because you know we went through this kind of in the early 2000s where we
94
00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:50,080
lost a bunch of guys you know you know the British Bulldog and all these guys you know they run the
95
00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:56,000
same time and then we had a reprieve and it just kind of feels like the last year and a half has
96
00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:04,000
been like no we're getting back into that that circle again and it's just like man like it's just
97
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:10,480
succing all these people that we kind of look up to and admire and cherish and you know just
98
00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:18,400
losing their lives way before it's really time what was the first pock novel moment that came into
99
00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:26,960
your mind as you kind of reminisce about him dr. tre so I knew absolutely nothing about pock really
100
00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:33,920
until he got to NXT like I would read about him and it was almost like big foot of sense I make
101
00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:38,160
these jokes sometimes where it's like yeah there are rumors of this really talented British guy
102
00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:45,760
doesn't crazy aerial stuff but I could never see him like I would get these videos and it'd be kind
103
00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:51,840
of blurry or grainy or they're just shot in a weird angle and you just you're like okay that guy
104
00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:58,000
seems cool just don't know about him you know and you and I when when we first started to show like
105
00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:06,240
I was watching NXT on YouTube before got moved to the network and and I kind of break up NXT
106
00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:11,520
there's like the YouTube air which to me is defined by bodalis and then there's the original
107
00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:20,160
network launch which to me is defined by Neville and Sammy's ain't and that first when he first
108
00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:27,200
debuted in NXT I was like man first of all he's way smaller than I thought he was going to be I hear
109
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,200
about him on the internet and you hear like guys like you case two and these guys talking about him
110
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,760
first you're like man this guy's larger than life like he's a real life superhero and then you
111
00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:45,280
see me like he's like 5'8" and 170 pounds he's like this flying ball of muscle with these really
112
00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:51,920
pointy ears I kind of thought like he was part elf when I first saw him I was like well maybe this is
113
00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:58,240
when Peter Jackson wrote Lord of the Rings Neville was the guy he was using the typecast you know
114
00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:03,600
some of these people but you see him in the ring and you're like man this guy is incredible
115
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:09,840
so though those first early matches in NXT when they got just basically kind of showcase
116
00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:15,840
his talents but then really that latter match with bow Dallas for the NXT championship was a
117
00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:22,240
kind of really kind of like set it off from like now this guy's incredible like I I think you and I
118
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:26,320
you can go back and look at the history of the show like I always said like I never thought WWE
119
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:32,800
would use him right because of his size but NXT he was used right and it made a ton of sense and
120
00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,960
but that first latter match with bow Dallas where he won the NXT championship was really kind of
121
00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:44,480
what cemented my fandom for Pock. Let's look at the journey here for Pock so he's born in Newcastle
122
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:52,240
upon Ty and England began his professional wrestling career in 2004 built his reputation
123
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:57,120
international and long before WWE wrestled across the British scene dragging AWG and around the world
124
00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:02,800
his athleticism was the obvious hook but what's separated was how precise everything looked
125
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:10,400
the spectacular never-loved reckless with Pock/Nevil the black arrow became one of wrestling
126
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:15,840
became one of wrestling's most recognizable finishing moves the corkscrew shooting star press
127
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:20,560
like in the late 90s the shooting star press was already a difficult move and here he is doing a
128
00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:27,120
corkscrew shooting star press he had a rivalry with ricochet a Pock and ricochet became defining
129
00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:33,040
rivals during their dragging eight years in November 2011 ricochet ended Pock's 447 day
130
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:38,000
opened the brave gate championship reign that rivalry became part of the blueprint for the explosive
131
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:42,080
athletic style that would become increasingly influential throughout wrestling today.
132
00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:46,880
What stood out about Pock he could do things athletically that very few wrestlers could do but he
133
00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:53,680
was never only a quote "high flyer" it was power intensity, technical wrestling, selling, pacing
134
00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:58,560
and character work that eventually made him one of the most complete wrestlers of his generation.
135
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:05,200
Dr. Trey was there ever another wrestler whose movement in the ring looked quite like his?
136
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:19,120
This sounds bad. The closest thing I am not on the high flying level but the way his movement
137
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:26,160
in the ring was Chris Benoit. Everything was so Chris. I think there were lurid times watching
138
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:34,800
level or a K-A Pock that I'm like is he really hitting this guy? Is it like he blurred the line?
139
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:42,000
A lot of times in the ring between that like is this real? Is this fake? Because everything he did was
140
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:50,400
so Chris so clean so violent looking but in a lot of ways like really beautifully artistically
141
00:14:50,400 --> 00:15:00,400
done. Like he was to me like when you talk about like the artistry of pro wrestling Pock is an artist
142
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:06,720
like everything he did was just that beautiful blend of violence and poetry at the same time.
143
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:16,480
Yeah no he is he's in an eggma. His style in the ring is unmatched and I like the comparisons.
144
00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:24,720
It reminds me of Benoit, Dynamite Kid, that short, stocky muscular person just like this muscle hamster
145
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:32,320
that's out there and he was able to evolve where he was just this short skinny with muscle still
146
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:38,320
high flyer into a walking muscle that could do things in the ring that you've never seen before.
147
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:45,040
Truly exceptional. Always love the character work. Loved how much he kept K-Fabe in the last,
148
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:50,240
I would say 8 to 10 years of his career when he was in NXT and it was the man that gravity
149
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,320
forgot he was a baby face that was a very good baby face. When he started becoming the king of the
150
00:15:54,320 --> 00:16:01,120
Cruiserweights and turned heel one of a kind. They put that cape on him for a little bit and then when
151
00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:06,800
he started doing King of the Cruiserweights which basically morphed into who he was towards the end
152
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:17,040
of his career. It's just such a fun overall character and for me my real first introduction to him
153
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:24,640
like you Dr. Trey was those NXT years. So Pock Neville signed with WWE in 2012 becoming
154
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:30,560
an agey Neville. He was an NXT Tag Team Champion and NXT Champion. He held the NXT Championship
155
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:36,000
for 286 days from February 27th which was that launch for the WWE Network when they did NXT
156
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:41,360
arrival where he defeated Bodeals in that latter match to December 11th 2014 where he dropped the
157
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:46,720
title to I believe Samisane. His Championship run came during the era when NXT was transforming from
158
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:52,880
developmental television to the brand's brand that fans become passionate about today. His title
159
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:57,760
lost to Samisane and NXT takeover our evolution in December remains connected to one of the defying
160
00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:04,080
stories of early NXT. He debuted on WWE's main roster in 2015 to solely his Neville. They dropped
161
00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:09,840
Adrian WWE market him as the man that gravity forgot. His red arrow immediately gave WWE
162
00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:15,280
something visually different from almost anyone else on the roster. He reinvented himself as a heal
163
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:19,360
and became the King of the Cruiserweights, won the WWE Cruiserweights Championship twice, first reign
164
00:17:19,360 --> 00:17:25,360
last in 196 days. The character showed a completely different side of him, bitter, intense, vicious
165
00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:29,760
and most importantly believable. It proved he could be much more than a spectacular athlete
166
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:35,280
WWE originally presented. What stood out for him there were two very two very different WWE
167
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:40,480
versions of Benjamin Sattelay worth remembering. Adrian Neville, the breathtaking babyface who
168
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:45,760
helped establish NXT and then Neville, the angry King of the Cruiserweights who showed how good his
169
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:53,200
character work would be. Dr. Trey, which WWE version of Neville did you enjoy the most?
170
00:17:53,200 --> 00:18:01,920
>> Well, naturally the villain in me loved the King of the Cruiserweights version of Neville more.
171
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:13,200
I like the pissed off angry guy because it's hard to be an undersized heal without a stable around
172
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:19,200
you. In the rest of me, calm the heaters. You get the small, pocket arrogant heal and then he's
173
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:26,560
got the big muscle guy behind him. Neville never had that. He didn't need it. Now in WWE's
174
00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:33,040
defense in a sense, they kept him in the Cruiserweights division where he was physically on par with
175
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:39,840
everybody else. But that run, especially when he brought in the brutalizer as a finisher, you're
176
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:47,360
just like man, that realism in the character. It felt so natural for me, so pissed off and angry
177
00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:56,160
and bitter. It just fit him so well, which was kind of a surprising twist because the Adrian Neville
178
00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:00,960
character, the high-flying baby face, it never showed any inkling of that. But that Neville,
179
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:08,320
brutalizer, King of the Cruiserweights, that guy, it was really like to this day. There are very
180
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:15,680
few characters that I watch and I go I wouldn't mess with that guy. That version of Neville was that guy.
181
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:21,120
I'm like yeah, that guy just looks too pissed off, too angry, too muscular and too athletic for me to
182
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:29,840
even fathom competing against in anything. It was as close to real life characterization as I've
183
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:37,040
seen in wrestling in a long time. Yeah, that was him in a nutshell. I mean he was one of a kind.
184
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:46,000
He was truly, again, I just used the word enigma when I think of him and I loved, really now, again,
185
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,920
here we are throwing our flowers for it's in, but when you think about the character adjustments he made
186
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:56,080
in WWE, I mean it's phenomenal. He went from one end of the spectrum of being like this comic book hero
187
00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:04,240
to the bastard that we ended up seeing in AEW. And that's where it takes us here, Dr. Trey, and this next
188
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:11,760
chapter as we remember, Pock Benjamin Saddley was his time in AEW. He joined AEW in 2019.
189
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:17,920
As one of the promotions important early signings, he was red hot on the independent wrestling scene. He
190
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,920
had not lost on the independent wrestling scene and there was like a little bit of a
191
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,560
cripple about him and his feud with Hangman out of page because he didn't want to lose to Hangman
192
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:32,320
Page and like there was something where he was gone for AEW for a little bit and maybe talking
193
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:39,040
in WWE about a return, then eventually came back to AEW. The name Pock returned but the presentation
194
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:43,360
was completely different from WWE's Neville. The bastard felt like the fully realized version of
195
00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:49,840
everything he could do, a lead athlete, dangerous wrestler and believable character. There was the
196
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:54,560
death triangle triangle, his partnership with Penton Ray Phoenix became one of AEW's most memorable
197
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:59,760
trios. Death triangle gave AEW three wrestlers with widely different personalities who somehow fit
198
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:05,600
together perfectly. Pock later became a two-time AEW World Trios Champion. Remember that
199
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:10,720
that was Trio Swar, the vest of seven between them and the elite that was a lot of fun with the
200
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:17,200
NBA on NBC music playing every time they would promote it. He made history at Forbidden Door 2022,
201
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:22,560
Pock defeated Malachi Black, Mirro and Clark Connors to become the inaugural AEW All-Annic Championship.
202
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:27,600
That championship was later renamed to today the AEW International Championship. In his later
203
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:32,080
years he eventually became part of the Death Riders, even after years on television he gets up into
204
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:37,040
virtually any match and immediately feel credible against anyone. His final match, the Dr. Trey
205
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,520
talked about the beginning there, came at AEW all out this past Saturday September 26th,
206
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,960
where he challenged on Dr. A. L. Edelow for the AEW National Championship.
207
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:50,160
It's very difficult to process that one of the last images wrestling fans have of him is still
208
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:56,960
doing what he had done for more than two decades, performing at the highest level in a championship match.
209
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:04,240
What stood out for Pock, AEW never needed to explain why Pock was dangerous. Fans believed at the moment
210
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:12,080
he walked through the curtain. Dr. Trey, what Pock match rivalry or death triangle moment will
211
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:17,280
you go back and watch first as you kind of go back and remember Pock and all the wrestling?
212
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:24,000
Actually, one of the first matches I went back and watched was from all out 2024 that match with
213
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:32,000
the Will Ospreay. That was a fantastic match. It got overshadowed because that was Swarven Hangman
214
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:38,160
were on that show, a couple of bigger matches, but that match, kind of to me, was the launch of Will
215
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:47,360
Ospreay to where he's at now. You and I have thrown out the phrase like the best soldier in a company.
216
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:54,960
Bench and Chris Jericho in the past, Ray and Jordan, levels that guy for AEW. When you're trying to
217
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:59,040
get somebody over, you put them in the ring of the level. They're going to have a great match. People
218
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:06,560
inherently wanted to boo, level, AKA Pock, sorry, but it launched a lot of guys, but that match
219
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:12,480
with Ospreay last year was fantastic. I think I actually read that that was the only
220
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:19,280
Meltzer-Given 5-star match of Pock's career. Some people say it was because of Ospreay, but that
221
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:26,480
match, you go back and watch, it was just incredible. Was it the Iron Man match he had with Hangman?
222
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:36,000
Also back in like 2022, I think it was. It was really good. Man, his match with Orange Cassidy,
223
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:41,600
with that rivalry he had with Orange, was really underrated because it was just so two totally
224
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:49,120
different styles. I saw somebody refer to as the Bugs Bunny Wrestling Style of Orange Cassidy
225
00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:57,440
versus the Tony soprano wrestling style of Pock, where it's just like comic versus like just
226
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:06,000
serious, going to just try to kill you. Even that match, I'm sure it'll get maybe some undo
227
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,160
love later on because it was last match, but even that match with Andrade Saturday night was
228
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:15,360
fantastic as well, but that was just a couple of the ones I gave him top of my head from his A.E.W. Run.
229
00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:19,680
Did AW give us the best overall version of Pock in your mind?
230
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:28,480
I think they gave us the best character version of Pock we could get, like the presentation when
231
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:33,200
he first debuted, and then, you know, Justin Roberts the way he announced it, and everything
232
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:41,680
else. I think it gave it the best character presentation you could do. He is bastard.
233
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:50,800
Yeah, that was so good, you know. And I think it was Marina or somebody like Ermai Ben Asprey
234
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:57,360
said he's our bastard. Like I love that. Getting a little choked up thinking about that.
235
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:07,360
You and I had talked about like I was waiting for the Pock Claudio to kick Moxley out the death
236
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:13,520
writers angle, which I'm sure was going to come around at some point. I got really excited a few
237
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:19,840
months ago when they did Pock in Claudio versus Cajun Cope because I was like, man, I'd love to see Claudio
238
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:26,960
in Pock just be a full-time tag team because their styles would have blended together so well.
239
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:34,320
We got instances of it, but you know, it was always kind of like Pock and Udo or Claudio and Garcia.
240
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:42,080
It was never just Pock and Claudio. So I still think there was a lot to do with the Pock character,
241
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:48,480
but presentation-wise, I think AIDA, if you had a home run with that character and how they presented it,
242
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:53,440
and how he showcased what he really wanted that character to become.
243
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,720
Let's talk a little bit about how the wrestling world has responded, Tony Khan said,
244
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:03,520
Benjamin Sattelay defined excellent praising his wrestling knowledge, athleticism, professionalism,
245
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,400
consistency, and dedication to the sport. We'll ask for a call from the greatest expert from our
246
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,800
country and describe Pock as a hero. Tributes have come from wrestlers of promotion across the
247
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:18,560
industry and not just AIDW, WWE opened both Raw and NXT with Memorial Graphics honoring Neville/Pock.
248
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,480
Penta, Becky Lynch, and Bailey were among those who publicly honored him on Raw.
249
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,840
The Rock also joined the many people throughout wrestling and paying tribute.
250
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:33,680
AIDW has the addition of Dynamite dedicated to him this evening. We are recording this before
251
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:38,480
that show airs. So if you're listening to this on Thursday, that's why it may sound a little bit
252
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:44,080
different with that show not already taking place. As Dr. Trenor recorded this, Will Osprey versus
253
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:49,200
Reckashe 2 wrestlers whose careers are deeply connected to Pock was announced specifically as a match
254
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:57,920
in his honor. This is the legacy of Benjamin Sattelay that will be showcased. He wrestled for more than
255
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:03,520
two decades, helped to find an air of NXT. He became one of WWE's most memorable cruiser weights.
256
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:09,040
He became an important part of AIDW from its earliest years. He influenced a generation of wrestlers
257
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:14,080
who saw that size that not limit him how believable, physical, or spectacular a wrestler could be.
258
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:18,800
And perhaps the most telling part of the reaction to his passing is how many people have talked
259
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:27,040
about Ben, the person, not just Pock, the wrestler. Dr. Trenor's, we look at final reflections here.
260
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,600
What made Pock special to you as a wrestling fan?
261
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:42,720
As a babyface, he was defined by the plucky underdog super hero abilities that kids look up to.
262
00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:49,920
You talk about defining a generation 20 years. I mean, you go back his debut in 2012. I mean, that's 14
263
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:55,120
years ago. There are kids now who are breaking into wrestling at 20 years old who saw him when they were
264
00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:59,840
six. That's one of those influences. That's one of those guys they could look and go, hey, I'm
265
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:07,360
under six foot tall. I'm under 200 pounds. But I could do this. I could be like this person.
266
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,840
Ray Mysterio defined those guys for the generation that you and I grew up in. Neville's one of those guys
267
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:22,560
that can define it for this generation. As a heel to be that small, but to be just like
268
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:31,440
just an utter pit bull of tenacity. Like you just you knew if if Pock was in that match,
269
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,920
it was going to be hard hitting. It was going to be physical. It was going to feel uncomfortable
270
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:43,440
at times. And for guys like us that still love old school wrestling where it felt like you were
271
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,840
about to watch a fight. If Pock was in the ring, you felt like it was going to be a fight.
272
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:54,480
You know, older guys like us, we bitch and complain about we don't like the flippy wrestling. We
273
00:28:54,480 --> 00:29:00,240
don't like all the high flying stuff. I never had that issue with Pock. I could watch a Pock
274
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,240
match any day of the week. And even though there's going to be some crazy high flying spots,
275
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:11,120
it made sense for what he was doing as a character. So I think the biggest legacy for him is just going
276
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:17,760
to be kind of helping redefine this current generation of wrestling we're watching and setting the
277
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:22,800
bar really, really high. So that when people don't measure up guys like you and me get to call them out
278
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:32,400
on it. Yeah, he is he's a special special wrestler. Again, defined a generation. There's
279
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,640
there's there's many of them that are out there, but I don't know if we ever have a ricochet if
280
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:42,320
there's no Pock. I don't know if we ever have a Will Osprey if there's no Pock. I don't know if we
281
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:50,480
have the athleticism, the move set that he brought to the forefront and defined that is now what I
282
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:56,320
would refer to as almost normal nowadays. Well, about 20 plus years ago, it wasn't normal. It wasn't
283
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:04,560
normal to do a corkscrew shooting star press. It wasn't normal to do flips and be a tight technical
284
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:11,920
wrestler given his size when you were that size that like Pock and Benjamin Sattelay was. It was
285
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:17,040
you were defined strictly as a high flyer and not someone that could be this snap mirror takedown,
286
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:23,040
snap suplex, vicious pit bull as you said or bulldog in that ring with a defined
287
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:30,720
character that was believable. Given his size, he's probably in height around the same height as
288
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:38,240
Dr. Trainai, maybe smaller, but I would be scared, shitless if I was in a dark alley with Pock.
289
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:44,160
What's really cool to hear about is that character that we saw on TV, that bastard, that king of the
290
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:49,360
cruiser weights, that man that gravity forgot was not the same person that was off the screen.
291
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:56,720
That person off the screen was someone who is beloved, someone that is appreciated and someone who will
292
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:02,880
be deeply missed. He will be deeply missed by all of his co-workers, the people that worked with
293
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:10,560
him, the people that knew him, and he will be deeply missed by his fans. There's really no easy way to
294
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,720
close out these episodes, Dr. Trainai. I'm going to withhold from doing our plugs and spots this week
295
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:23,200
because I don't find that to be very appropriate right now. Before we do close up, this week's edition
296
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:28,720
the show, any final thoughts in regards to our member and seer of Benjamin Pock, sadly.
297
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:34,160
The people that you mentioned, the ricochet is the boss phrase, take a guy like Javan Evans.
298
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:42,640
Javan Evans is 20 years old, 21. That's the people we're talking about. That's the generation of wrestling
299
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:49,360
that is defined and influenced by Pock. Our people like Javan Evans, who, six years old,
300
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:56,800
is when Neville joined WWE. That's about the time he said he became a wrestling fan.
301
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:04,240
So seeing guys do the stuff that Neville/Pock could do in a ring is what influenced guys like Javan
302
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:10,240
Evans. And Neville would say he was influenced by guys like the Dynamite Kid.
303
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:18,160
Those are the ones that last forever. You and I have told stories to friends and younger people about
304
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,240
like, "Oh my God, you think that's high-tech, right? Go back and watch tapes of the British Bulldogs."
305
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:27,120
That's going to be the Javan Evans Deville Ospreys. You think, "I'm good, man. You need to go
306
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:35,200
back and watch tapes of Pock when he was in Dragon Gator, PWG, or check out this." Those things like that
307
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:42,640
define wrestling, but the person he was, you see the outpouring of love from everybody around.
308
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:49,440
There's nobody being quiet about this. Everybody's saying how much they love him. If the rock comes out
309
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:56,160
and says, "Give flowers to a guy like Pock," you know. And rock never crossed paths with him from as far as
310
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:04,800
I know. But that's the kind of person that Benjamin Saturday was. So his wrestling legacy is well
311
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,760
defined, but as a person, the outpouring of love and support just shows what the measure of the man
312
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:15,120
really was. Dynamite's going to be a heavy show. Most people, you all are listening to this after you
313
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:20,400
probably seen that show. We have not seen it yet. We are recording it on Wednesday. This is where we
314
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:27,440
typically record the show for the time being. It's going to be a beautiful tribute. I wish we didn't
315
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:32,880
have to watch it by any means, but it's going to be emotional night for wrestling fans and wrestlers
316
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:40,160
around the world and the wrestling community in general. So there isn't really a perfect way to end
317
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:46,160
an episode like this. We will be back next week with our normal run and talk about everything going
318
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:51,360
on wrestling. But for now, it did not feel appropriate to talk about anything other than this when we
319
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:57,120
lose a member of our wrestling community and family. Someone that is so impactful and important to
320
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:02,720
all of us in Benjamin Park, sadly. So rather than to summarize our career that took Benjamin
321
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:08,880
sadly all over the world, we'll just say thank you. Thank you for the matches. Thank you for the
322
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:15,520
moments. Thank you for everything you gave professional wrestling. Rest in peace, Ben.
