EP05: Hell Hath No Fury Like a Butcher Scorned

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Ask you something. Have you ever felt like you're doing
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everything right, eating better, making healthier choices, but you're still
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All right, welcome back to another episode of Psychopedia with me,
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your co-host, Hank Sinatra, and my co-host.
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Investigator Slater.
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She is my co-host, but I am her co-host. No
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one's better than anybody else here. Equals. Yeah, I mean,
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you decide for yourself whether or not you like me
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or her better, I guess. I'm not going to say
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I'm better than her.
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Why do they need to pick their favorite?
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They will, inevitably. And because they'll find out that I'm
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more fun.
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It's like picking your favorite child. You just don't do it.
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You don't have a favorite child.
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My dog, obviously.
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Yeah. No, we both bring different things to the table.
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She is a hardcore, hard hitting, in-depth investigator. Like that's
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what you really do.
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That's what I do professionally.
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You investigate. I do. So like you get to the
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bottom of things. I try. And then under the things,
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and then find things that nobody else found.
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And flip it around in a million different ways, and
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then re-examine, and then get even deeper.
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Yeah, she's an overthinker. I'm an overthinker too, but I
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think about dumb stuff, like memes and jokes.
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It's not dumb, it's just different.
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It's different. It's a different kind of intelligence, if you
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could even call it that. You can call it that.
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As we get into this, you'll find that she's the expert,
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I'm the comic relief, and I just deal with anxiety
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by laughing, and you deal with anxiety by listening to
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true crime podcasts. And I'm trying to figure that out.
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I'm trying to understand it. But without further ado, we'll
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get into the case. She'll try and throw me off
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track by doing some quizzes. Maybe you know the case.
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Maybe you don't. Maybe you like quizzes. Maybe you're not
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even paying attention. And this would be a good time
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to start now and when the quizzes start. So without
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further ado, why don't you tell me about this case?
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On March 1st, 2000, Two police officers in Aberdeen, Australia,
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had gone to conduct a wellness check on a man
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who uncharacteristically hadn't shown up for work that morning.
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Guy didn't show up for work.
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Guy didn't show up for work.
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One day.
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One day. But he was very reliable. This was a very,
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very small town in Australia. Everybody knew each other. So
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you knew each other's habits. You knew when somebody didn't
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show up for work. It typically meant there was an issue.
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Harry didn't show up for work. Call the cops.
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You're not from Aberdeen.
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No, I'm not from Aberdeen. It sounds made up. But Aberdeen, Australia,
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some guy doesn't show up for work. They call the cops.
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When the officers arrived at the home, they saw a bloodstain,
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you laughing now, on the front door and decided to
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forcibly enter.
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Was there a finger outside the door?
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There was blood, as I said.
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Like in the Banshees of Inner Sharon?
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Nope.
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Okay.
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Just a bloodstain on the door, also uncharacteristic. Shouldn't have
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been there.
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Probably not.
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They opened the door. The lights were off in the home,
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so it was difficult for them to see, but both
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officers were able to clearly identify the smell of food
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being cooked. indicating perhaps that someone was home or perhaps
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had been home recently. So these officers are walking through
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the dark home. It was not kangaroo, but way to stereotype.
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Koala bear?
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They were slightly disoriented, walking through the dark, unfamiliar home.
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Yep.
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But they continued forward and slowly and carefully walked from
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one room to the next, relying upon all their other
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senses to navigate. One of the officers extended his left
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arm to push aside a curtain, and he immediately felt
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a cold, wet substance dripping down the length of his arm.
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He looked closely and saw that it was blood. His
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initial thought was that he must have cut himself on
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the front door when he forcibly entered just moments earlier.
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He was cooking.
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But he quickly realized that the blood was not his.
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Oh, the officer thought he cut his hand.
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So the cop moves aside a curtain. He's navigating in
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the dark through this house. And he feels like a cold,
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wet substance on his arm, on his left arm. And
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he looked and it's blood. And he said, oh, I
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must have cut myself when I opened the front door,
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when I broke through it. And then he realized it
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wasn't his blood. Which I had something similar happen, but
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not with blood. So I waitressed for two hours when
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I was like 16 at a Greek restaurant.
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You have real staying power.
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And I got ketchup from the tip of my pinky
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down to my elbow, and I was like, I'm out. Yeah.
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This isn't for me.
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Yeah, food is rough. It is.
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It's not pleasant. The officers proceeded with their slow, eerie
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walk through the home, one of them even drawing his
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service pistol in response to an innate sense of wrongness.
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Yeah, blood.
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They followed what appeared to have been a blood trail
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from the living room to the kitchen, and they found
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the source of what they smelled earlier upon entering the home.
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There were two plates of freshly cooked food sitting on
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the counter containing cooked veggies, a piece of meat, and
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some gravy. Pretty standard looking meal.
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Australian.
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Why is that Australian? It's meat, veggies, and whatever.
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Because they eat healthy. They don't eat Twinkies and shit
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like that.
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How is meat and gravy healthy?
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It's just home cooked.
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It's not like lean bison and... like a slab of meat.
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It probably was kangaroo meat.
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Okay, again, the kangaroo. On the stove was a simmering pot,
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and on the table were little paper cards with the
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names of the children belonging to the man whose house
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they were in, the one who hadn't shown up for
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work that morning. It seemed almost like someone was preparing
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to host a dinner party, but for the fact that
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there was a blood trail in the living room, blood
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spatter all over the walls, a missing adult man and
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a human head cooking in the pot on the stove.
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This case is already horrendous.
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The curtain that the police officer moved aside upon entering
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the home, the one that left the blood streak on
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his arm, was not made of fabric. Tonight, I bring
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you the case of one of Australia's most famous convicts
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whose heinous brutality continues to defy comprehension to this day.
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The gruesome nature of this person's crime makes her one
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of the most diabolical murderers in the nation's history.
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A female killer?
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She's a lady killer.
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Thank you, God.
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Why?
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Because men are just like such, they are always killing.
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Yeah, well, not here.
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If you told me, hey, we're going to do a
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million episodes of this podcast, I would think it would
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be a million men.
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I know. I mean, you wouldn't be that far off.
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It's most often men.
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Well, statistically.
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Right.
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But stereotypically as well, but stereotype indicates that there's not
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some truth to it. Like there's real truth to it.
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There is real truth to it. Never before this case
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or ever again since has there been a crime of
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this nature perpetrated by a woman in Australia. Wow. This
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is the story of Catherine Knight, mother, wife, serial abuser, murderer,
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and cannibal.
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So this wasn't her first rodeo.
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It was not her first rodeo in a sense that
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she was a violent, unpredictable, just out of her head woman.
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Yeah.
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But this actual murder.
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Yeah.
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Well, we're going to get into it, but this was
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the first time she actually murdered.
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But serial abuser, you said.
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She was a serial abuser. She was a violent woman.
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So she would just like throw a box of Cheerios
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at somebody's head.
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I mean, that was probably just the first round.
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You don't even know what to say. What are Cheerios
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called in Australia? What's Cheerios?
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Cheerios.
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What's Cheerios upside down? Cheerio.
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Yeah. You're missing it. It's perfect.
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Cheerio. Right. Yeah. Boomerang.
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I'm taking you back to the year 2000 to the
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town of Aberdeen, Australia, which is a very, very small town,
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three hours north of Sydney. Not much to say about
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Aberdeen at this point in time. There were only two pubs,
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a plethora of socioeconomic issues, a coal train that would
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pass through once per day, and a well-established, rather popular abattoir.
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I will literally give you a million dollars, literally, if
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you can tell me what an abattoir is. Pop quiz
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number one.
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Okay.
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Is it a brothel? Okay. Is it a domicile for
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Western religious traditions, including Christianity? Or is it a place
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where animals are butchered?
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A domicile for religious Christianity. Nope.
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That's an abbey. And I threw you off because abbey
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sounds like abattoir.
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I did not even know it was abbey. I was
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guessing 100%. Well, you guessed wrong.
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Shocking.
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So yeah, I'm not that great at this. So it's
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a brothel? Nope. It's a place where things are slaughtered? Yeah.
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Animals are slaughtered? It's a slaughterhouse.
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An abattoir is a slaughterhouse.
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That's what I was going to say.
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I'm sure. It took you three tries to get there.
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And there were only three guesses.
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So let's talk about Catherine Mary Knight. Catherine was born
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in this slaughterhouse-centric coal and cattle town of Aberdeen on
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October 24th, 1955. She and her three siblings were born
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into a horrific family situation. Their father, Ken, was an
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alcoholic who was openly violent and sexually abusive towards their mother, Barbara. Catherine, sadly,
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also experienced ongoing sexual abuse at the hands of many
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different family members. At a painfully young age, Catherine learned
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to fear and hate all men. Catherine had basically no
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chance of learning fundamental moral constructs or a sense of
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right and wrong because she was raised in a very
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dysfunctional shitstorm of rape, physical abuse, incest, and pedophilia.
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Yeah, that's a bad childhood.
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It's not a great start. Not only did her childhood
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lack love, but in its place had been a steady
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stream of pure, unadulterated evil. As such, she developed what
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one psychiatrist referred to as a primitive conscience. It may
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not be shocking to learn that this child, who'd grown
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up in such a violent and barbaric environment, had grown
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up behaving in violent and barbaric ways.
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Yeah.
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By the time Catherine was three or four years old,
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she developed serious behavioral disorders, including borderline personality disorder.
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By the time she was three or four?
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Three or four.
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Oh my God.
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Which is also known as emotionally unstable personality disorder, which
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some psychiatrists believe was like a defense mechanism that her
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psyche created to deal with the trauma of daily life,
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which is a very sad way for this horrendous woman
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to have started life.
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Yeah.
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We'll give it to her at this point. We feel
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for her here.
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00:11:43.610 --> 00:11:45.190
Yeah, I mean, I'm going to feel for her probably
249
00:11:45.210 --> 00:11:46.789
all the time. I don't want to say just because
250
00:11:46.809 --> 00:11:48.590
she killed a bunch of people doesn't mean she's a
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00:11:48.610 --> 00:11:51.529
bad person, because it kind of does, but there's always
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a reason.
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Curious what you would define as a bad person, if
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not somebody who murders. I don't know if there's... Well,
255
00:11:58.820 --> 00:12:00.980
there is a difference between bad and mad, which we're
256
00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:03.100
going to explore a little bit in this episode.
257
00:12:03.259 --> 00:12:04.169
Yeah, I mean, she was not.
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00:12:04.200 --> 00:12:06.570
So I'm wondering if, in your mind, you're making that
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00:12:06.610 --> 00:12:08.309
distinction between mad and bad.
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She was not set up for success.
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00:12:10.210 --> 00:12:10.610
No way.
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She had no chance. And I feel for her.
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00:12:12.779 --> 00:12:13.279
I agree with that.
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00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:15.440
I wouldn't want her babysitting my children.
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00:12:15.460 --> 00:12:17.740
No, wait till you hear what we're going to get into.
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You would not want her near your children.
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No.
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This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. There are plenty of
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everything completely together, but make sure it looks effortless. One
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unwritten rule that I have definitely absorbed is that being
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a good wife, mom, friend, or just a good person
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281
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are taught to equate caring for people with constantly showing
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288
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visit 4hers. com. So Catherine at this very young age would
317
00:15:22.149 --> 00:15:25.570
disconnect from all that she simply could not process. And
318
00:15:25.610 --> 00:15:28.230
while in that state of disconnect, she'd miss out on
319
00:15:28.289 --> 00:15:33.169
crucial opportunities to grow and develop essential human emotions like love, empathy,
320
00:15:33.250 --> 00:15:39.559
and happiness. Just to name a few. So borderline personality disorder,
321
00:15:39.580 --> 00:15:43.519
just to be clear, is a personality disorder characterized by
322
00:15:43.539 --> 00:15:46.639
an instability in mood, behavior, and functioning.
323
00:15:46.980 --> 00:15:47.299
Okay.
324
00:15:47.500 --> 00:15:52.149
As well as a long-term pattern of unstable interpersonal relationships,
325
00:15:52.470 --> 00:15:56.629
strong emotional reactions, and a distorted sense of self. And
326
00:15:56.649 --> 00:15:57.330
I'm going to sum it up.
327
00:15:57.490 --> 00:15:57.750
Got it.
328
00:15:57.990 --> 00:16:02.029
So BPD impacts the way you think and feel about
329
00:16:02.070 --> 00:16:05.730
yourself and others. Which can, and in this case does,
330
00:16:05.970 --> 00:16:10.379
create dysfunction in everyday life. It's a behavioral disorder.
331
00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:14.200
In every situation, no matter the circumstances. You misinterpret life.
332
00:16:14.700 --> 00:16:17.100
It's very hard for you to function in everyday life.
333
00:16:17.139 --> 00:16:21.940
You misinterpret situations. You misinterpret relationships. Your reactions are off
334
00:16:21.980 --> 00:16:22.539
the charts.
335
00:16:22.860 --> 00:16:25.559
Yeah. Sometimes you probably don't react at all to something
336
00:16:25.580 --> 00:16:26.440
you should react to.
337
00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:29.460
Correct. You're off. I mean, that's just a simple way
338
00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:31.419
to put it, but you're off in a way that
339
00:16:31.659 --> 00:16:35.080
creates some serious damage, typically, or at least in this case.
340
00:16:35.379 --> 00:16:36.070
Relatable.
341
00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:39.899
Relatable. So there are nine symptoms that may be seen
342
00:16:39.970 --> 00:16:42.750
in someone with borderline personality disorder. And if you present
343
00:16:42.789 --> 00:16:46.070
with five of these symptoms, you're deemed to have the disorder.
344
00:16:46.330 --> 00:16:46.710
Oh, God.
345
00:16:46.750 --> 00:16:51.870
So in my completely unqualified and unprofessional mental health capacity opinion.
346
00:16:52.070 --> 00:16:52.230
Yeah.
347
00:16:52.500 --> 00:16:57.100
Catherine Knight displayed seven out of the nine. So they
348
00:16:57.220 --> 00:17:01.610
are an intense fear of abandonment, a pattern of unstable,
349
00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:07.430
intense relationships, rapid changes in self-identity and self-image, periods of
350
00:17:07.490 --> 00:17:13.829
stress-related paranoia, impulsive and risky behavior, suicidal threats or behavior
351
00:17:13.950 --> 00:17:18.869
or self-injury, wide mood swings, ongoing feelings of emptiness, and
352
00:17:19.049 --> 00:17:20.809
inappropriate intense anger.
353
00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:23.089
So what if you have like two of those? You're good.
354
00:17:23.460 --> 00:17:26.089
Oh. How many did you connect with on that list?
355
00:17:26.309 --> 00:17:32.730
Zero. So there was a question, like there's a test
356
00:17:32.789 --> 00:17:35.009
on the back of like the pamphlets when you go
357
00:17:35.029 --> 00:17:37.730
to your meeting for the first time. There's 10 questions.
358
00:17:39.009 --> 00:17:42.920
I'm coming from school where like I was young at
359
00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:46.220
the time. I'm like, dude, just don't pass it. Like
360
00:17:46.259 --> 00:17:48.859
get a 70 or so. 70 is like borderline. You
361
00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:51.150
can like wiggle your way out of it. So I
362
00:17:51.329 --> 00:17:55.269
answered yes to seven of them. One I lied about.
363
00:17:55.329 --> 00:17:57.650
The other two were just too far removed for me,
364
00:17:58.930 --> 00:18:01.930
just things like jail or whatever. That was a get.
365
00:18:02.529 --> 00:18:04.029
I get to the bottom. It says, if you have
366
00:18:04.250 --> 00:18:06.859
answered yes to three or more of these questions, you
367
00:18:06.900 --> 00:18:10.369
have a definite problem with alcohol. Thank you, motherfuckers. Oh,
368
00:18:10.380 --> 00:18:12.740
my God. Why'd you set it at three?
369
00:18:12.779 --> 00:18:13.099
Right.
370
00:18:13.700 --> 00:18:15.539
Everybody's got three. No, most people don't have three.
371
00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:17.519
Maybe they're trying to make you feel like you've come
372
00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:20.119
to the right place. And if you didn't connect with
373
00:18:20.180 --> 00:18:22.440
enough things on that list, you would have walked out.
374
00:18:22.740 --> 00:18:25.480
Well, I mean, the things were like, you know, straight
375
00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:28.539
up alcohol things. Like, are you losing time at work
376
00:18:28.619 --> 00:18:30.359
due to your drinking? Have you ever had a complete
377
00:18:30.380 --> 00:18:33.240
loss of memory due to drinking? Normal people are going
378
00:18:33.269 --> 00:18:34.529
to say no. They're going to get a zero.
379
00:18:34.789 --> 00:18:36.650
Right, right, right, right. So you got a three?
380
00:18:36.670 --> 00:18:37.730
I got a seven.
381
00:18:37.750 --> 00:18:38.829
Oh, you got a seven.
382
00:18:38.890 --> 00:18:41.069
Yeah, I was trying to like not, and I lied
383
00:18:41.089 --> 00:18:41.670
on one of them.
384
00:18:41.690 --> 00:18:43.609
So you really got a 10 out of 10.
385
00:18:43.609 --> 00:18:45.910
Pretty much, yeah. Yeah, it was, I mean, there was no,
386
00:18:46.029 --> 00:18:47.269
and definite was underlying. Then you know what?
387
00:18:47.289 --> 00:18:48.309
You were where you needed to be.
388
00:18:48.670 --> 00:18:51.230
Oh, yeah. But I don't have BPD, all right? No,
389
00:18:51.250 --> 00:18:51.609
you don't.
390
00:18:51.990 --> 00:18:53.230
But good for you for getting help.
391
00:18:53.670 --> 00:18:56.660
Yeah, and if I had BPD, I'd get help too.
392
00:18:56.900 --> 00:19:00.259
Good. While in school, Catherine was a bully.
393
00:19:00.779 --> 00:19:01.259
No shit.
394
00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:03.019
Who terrorized smaller children.
395
00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:03.660
What a jerk.
396
00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:05.299
She never learned how to read or write.
397
00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:07.839
You would have got terrorized by her because you're small. Oh,
398
00:19:08.019 --> 00:19:08.779
fuck off.
399
00:19:09.900 --> 00:19:11.400
I would have defended myself.
400
00:19:11.460 --> 00:19:12.900
I really am on one today. Oh.
401
00:19:13.609 --> 00:19:17.230
I don't think I like you in this episode. She
402
00:19:17.269 --> 00:19:19.529
never learned how to read or write. She had a volatile,
403
00:19:19.730 --> 00:19:22.990
explosive temper, and she eventually dropped out of school at
404
00:19:23.029 --> 00:19:25.910
the age of 15. She initially took a job at
405
00:19:25.950 --> 00:19:29.799
a clothing factory before landing her dream job one year
406
00:19:29.859 --> 00:19:31.279
later at the abattoir.
407
00:19:31.299 --> 00:19:32.680
At the slaughterhouse?
408
00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:37.619
Yes. Now, her parents, her grandparents... and her brothers had
409
00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:40.680
all worked there before her. So this was like a
410
00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:43.349
family tradition. Like everyone in my family is an attorney,
411
00:19:43.470 --> 00:19:45.490
more or less, which is where I work now, not
412
00:19:45.589 --> 00:19:48.170
as an attorney, as an investigator, but she had the
413
00:19:48.230 --> 00:19:49.349
abattoir family biz.
414
00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:51.640
Abattoir. Sounds so fancy.
415
00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:54.619
It is fancy. It's not, but it sounds it. That's
416
00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:56.619
why I knew I could quiz you and you'd fuck
417
00:19:56.660 --> 00:19:57.099
it right up.
418
00:19:57.220 --> 00:19:57.380
Yeah.
419
00:19:57.440 --> 00:19:58.519
And you did not disappoint.
420
00:19:58.539 --> 00:20:00.500
I thought it was like a dresser or something.
421
00:20:01.700 --> 00:20:03.930
At the abattoir, gear up for your next pop quiz.
422
00:20:04.109 --> 00:20:04.349
Okay.
423
00:20:04.630 --> 00:20:08.309
At the abattoir, Catherine had a very specific job, which
424
00:20:08.390 --> 00:20:11.589
involved Ophel. Okay, does that.
425
00:20:11.470 --> 00:20:12.289
Mean- How do you spell it?
426
00:20:12.569 --> 00:20:16.089
O-F-F-A-L, you spelling bee fucking weirdo.
427
00:20:16.789 --> 00:20:17.569
Origin, please.
428
00:20:21.210 --> 00:20:25.069
Does that mean that she A, cut out the internal
429
00:20:25.190 --> 00:20:29.539
organs of the animals, B, slit the animals' throats to
430
00:20:29.619 --> 00:20:33.559
drain them of their lifeblood, or C, break down and
431
00:20:33.619 --> 00:20:37.559
process dead animal carcasses to make feed for the living animals?
432
00:20:37.859 --> 00:20:37.980
Feed.
433
00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:39.150
Feed. Nope.
434
00:20:39.369 --> 00:20:40.210
Come on.
435
00:20:40.230 --> 00:20:43.819
I am so good at throwing you off. And also creepy.
436
00:20:43.859 --> 00:20:47.220
I'm creeping myself out. That doesn't even exist. I don't
437
00:20:47.259 --> 00:20:49.920
think that role in a slaughterhouse. I made it up
438
00:20:50.299 --> 00:20:52.920
from my own demented mental fucking head.
439
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:53.839
Yeah. Demented.
440
00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:56.269
So it's not breaking down.
441
00:20:56.289 --> 00:20:57.349
When you cut the throats?
442
00:20:57.890 --> 00:20:58.150
No.
443
00:20:58.490 --> 00:21:00.589
Why am I so bad at this?
444
00:21:00.609 --> 00:21:04.269
Love it. It's just so entertaining. No, she would cut
445
00:21:04.390 --> 00:21:07.359
out the internal organs of the animals. So let me
446
00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:10.960
tell you what Ophel is. It literally translates to mean
447
00:21:11.329 --> 00:21:14.410
organ meats, right? Also known as a variety of meats,
448
00:21:14.509 --> 00:21:18.150
which includes livers, brains, hearts, sweetbreads. Do you know what
449
00:21:18.190 --> 00:21:18.809
sweetbreads is?
450
00:21:18.849 --> 00:21:20.430
So can I tell you something? I feel like I've
451
00:21:20.470 --> 00:21:23.349
heard the word Ophel before and I thought it was
452
00:21:23.430 --> 00:21:26.990
food or innards or something. That's why I went with
453
00:21:27.230 --> 00:21:28.579
C initially.
454
00:21:28.690 --> 00:21:31.480
Well, you were correct. And next time go with your instinct.
455
00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:32.920
No, I was wrong.
456
00:21:33.390 --> 00:21:35.509
No, you said that it would have to do with organs, Ophel,
457
00:21:35.529 --> 00:21:36.009
and it does.
458
00:21:36.029 --> 00:21:36.170
Yeah.
459
00:21:36.190 --> 00:21:38.529
She would cut out the internal organs of the animals.
460
00:21:38.630 --> 00:21:40.400
Yeah. Sweetbread, you were going to tell me what it's for.
461
00:21:40.470 --> 00:21:44.630
Oh, it's thymus and pancreas. I hear sweetbreads being served
462
00:21:44.829 --> 00:21:49.150
like in real life, IRL. It's thymus and pancreas.
463
00:21:49.490 --> 00:21:50.769
Better use all the animal.
464
00:21:50.950 --> 00:21:52.990
Well, you know what? I'm actually a proponent of that.
465
00:21:53.069 --> 00:21:53.650
In Aberdeen.
466
00:21:54.369 --> 00:21:57.509
In anywhere. Testicles, kidneys, oxtails.
467
00:21:57.609 --> 00:21:58.069
Buttholes.
468
00:21:58.690 --> 00:22:00.349
Buttholes and tongue.
469
00:22:00.650 --> 00:22:02.799
I was joking. What is an oxtail? Do you know?
470
00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:04.880
I thought it was a butthole because you said it
471
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:05.700
right when I said that.
472
00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:09.079
Oh, no. What is an oxtail? Is it? I'm going
473
00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:09.740
to quiz you.
474
00:22:11.339 --> 00:22:13.460
So something on this topic that I came across in
475
00:22:13.480 --> 00:22:15.400
my research, which I found interesting, so I'm going to
476
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:18.799
share it with our listeners, is that in medieval times,
477
00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:23.339
humble pie was an actual dish made from animal innards
478
00:22:23.500 --> 00:22:26.160
and served to peasants and is the source of the
479
00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:30.710
commonly used idiom eating humble pie. Interesting, right? Or am
480
00:22:30.789 --> 00:22:31.210
I the only.
481
00:22:31.589 --> 00:22:32.349
No, that's interesting. Weirdo.
482
00:22:32.410 --> 00:22:33.589
I think that shit's interesting.
483
00:22:33.650 --> 00:22:33.849
Yeah.
484
00:22:34.789 --> 00:22:38.670
Catherine helped to slaughter 600 animals per day.
485
00:22:39.190 --> 00:22:40.349
Oh my God.
486
00:22:40.529 --> 00:22:43.690
And she would nick their arteries just to watch them
487
00:22:43.750 --> 00:22:47.640
bleed out. She found her calling at the abattoir and
488
00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:50.079
she would treat it as her personal killing field.
489
00:22:50.299 --> 00:22:52.900
So she was like taking her weirdness out on these animals.
490
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:56.750
Every day was Disneyland for her at the abattoir. She
491
00:22:56.829 --> 00:22:57.670
loved the sounds.
492
00:22:57.710 --> 00:22:59.869
I wish she wasn't masturbating like the priest.
493
00:22:59.890 --> 00:23:02.289
No, she wasn't masturbating, but I venture to say she
494
00:23:02.349 --> 00:23:03.240
was enjoying it.
495
00:23:03.450 --> 00:23:03.750
Yeah.
496
00:23:04.250 --> 00:23:04.910
Wink, wink.
497
00:23:04.930 --> 00:23:06.069
That priest was weird.
498
00:23:06.109 --> 00:23:07.589
That priest was. And if you don't know what we're
499
00:23:07.630 --> 00:23:11.119
talking about, go listen to our killer priest episode, because
500
00:23:11.140 --> 00:23:15.059
it's a doozy. So Catherine loved the sounds of the
501
00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:18.680
dying animals, and she cherished all of her shiny, sharp
502
00:23:18.819 --> 00:23:19.839
instruments of death.
503
00:23:19.940 --> 00:23:23.220
She loved the sounds of the dying animals? Mm-hmm. So weird.
504
00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:27.000
So in a book called Bloodstained, written by journalist Peter Lallard,
505
00:23:27.400 --> 00:23:30.039
which I read, which is excellent, I recommend. He talks
506
00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:33.509
about how Catherine would hang her set of butcher's knives
507
00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:38.190
above her bed. So pop quiz about me. Let's see
508
00:23:38.230 --> 00:23:42.410
how well you know me. What item didn't I have
509
00:23:42.569 --> 00:23:46.140
hanging up in my room in my late teens, early 20s?
510
00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:48.240
So this is around Catherine's age in this story.
511
00:23:48.509 --> 00:23:50.130
Yeah, what item didn't you have?
512
00:23:50.150 --> 00:23:51.910
Correct, and this is around the time we met, but
513
00:23:51.950 --> 00:23:54.009
to be clear, you never saw my childhood bedroom, so
514
00:23:54.029 --> 00:23:55.789
you wouldn't know the answer to this necessarily.
515
00:23:55.829 --> 00:23:56.650
No, I got excited.
516
00:23:56.670 --> 00:23:59.029
You would know it if you know me, and God,
517
00:23:59.069 --> 00:24:02.200
I hope you get this right, because we go back. A,
518
00:24:02.730 --> 00:24:06.829
a movie theater-sized poster of The Matrix. Okay. B, a
519
00:24:06.890 --> 00:24:10.150
poster of JFK with his famous quote, ask not what
520
00:24:10.170 --> 00:24:12.089
your country can do for you, but what you can
521
00:24:12.109 --> 00:24:16.950
do for your country. C, a Master of Puppets Metallica poster.
522
00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:20.529
Or D, a ceramic hand coming out of the wall?
523
00:24:21.049 --> 00:24:23.309
Well, I know you had a Metallica poster.
524
00:24:24.410 --> 00:24:26.549
I'm not going to speak until you give me your
525
00:24:26.589 --> 00:24:27.170
final answer.
526
00:24:27.230 --> 00:24:30.230
Which one didn't you have? JFK, Matrix.
527
00:24:30.710 --> 00:24:33.869
The Matrix, Metallica, or a ceramic hand coming out of
528
00:24:33.890 --> 00:24:34.230
the wall?
529
00:24:34.710 --> 00:24:35.990
JFK. Nope.
530
00:24:36.730 --> 00:24:39.789
I am the biggest fucking patriot have we met. I
531
00:24:39.849 --> 00:24:42.369
went to the University of Maryland to serve our country.
532
00:24:42.450 --> 00:24:43.769
You stormed the Capitol.
533
00:24:43.869 --> 00:24:47.940
I did not storm the Capitol. Take it easy. But
534
00:24:48.019 --> 00:24:50.920
I went to pursue a career in FBI and Secret
535
00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:53.380
Service and politics, and I wanted to die for whoever
536
00:24:53.420 --> 00:24:54.369
the president was going to be.
537
00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:54.900
Really?
538
00:24:55.009 --> 00:24:56.950
At the time in which I would be guarding him
539
00:24:57.009 --> 00:24:57.289
or her.
540
00:24:57.730 --> 00:24:58.410
Wow. Yeah.
541
00:24:58.750 --> 00:25:00.009
So no, you're wrong. It's not that.
542
00:25:00.170 --> 00:25:03.509
So it's not JFK. I know you had the Metallica
543
00:25:03.529 --> 00:25:07.730
thing because Metallica concert and 40 and whatever.
544
00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:09.059
I'm afraid not, George.
545
00:25:09.079 --> 00:25:11.799
You didn't have a Metallica poster? I know.
546
00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:13.740
I put that in there. It's almost unfair.
547
00:25:13.779 --> 00:25:14.960
That was tricky. That was tricky.
548
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:19.200
As Catherine grew up, she remained in constant fear of
549
00:25:19.299 --> 00:25:23.089
being raped. She'd often give in to sex just to
550
00:25:23.170 --> 00:25:25.390
avoid the possibility of it turning violent.
551
00:25:25.430 --> 00:25:26.390
Who was she being raped by?
552
00:25:26.569 --> 00:25:27.869
Well, when she was a little girl.
553
00:25:27.930 --> 00:25:28.079
No, no.
554
00:25:28.089 --> 00:25:29.750
When she was a little girl, she was being raped
555
00:25:29.789 --> 00:25:33.450
by multiple family members. So as she continued to mature
556
00:25:33.490 --> 00:25:35.569
and grow, she just lived in a constant state of
557
00:25:35.650 --> 00:25:38.819
fear about being raped. So she'd often give in to
558
00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:41.859
sex just to avoid the possibility of it turning violent.
559
00:25:42.490 --> 00:25:43.369
That's sad.
560
00:25:43.589 --> 00:25:47.690
Lacking control of any situation or person was a big
561
00:25:47.769 --> 00:25:51.690
trigger for Catherine. She ended up marrying her first boyfriend,
562
00:25:51.829 --> 00:25:55.269
David Kellett, in 1974, and she was still in her teens.
563
00:25:55.569 --> 00:25:59.230
She was 19. They were a slaughterhouse couple at the courthouse.
564
00:25:59.910 --> 00:26:01.440
They met at the slaughterhouse, if that wasn't clear.
565
00:26:01.740 --> 00:26:02.839
Overalls and blood.
566
00:26:03.220 --> 00:26:07.920
Yep. Shiny knives instead of rings. They really got into it. No,
567
00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:12.970
I made that up. Immediately, sadly, there were major issues
568
00:26:13.119 --> 00:26:17.579
between Catherine and David. I'm talking quite literally from day
569
00:26:17.619 --> 00:26:21.059
number one. The very same night of their nuptials, while
570
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:26.519
canoodling at their rented apartment, Catherine and David consummated their marriage. Okay, fine.
571
00:26:27.019 --> 00:26:28.369
They did so three times.
572
00:26:28.380 --> 00:26:30.869
That's pretty good. It is.
573
00:26:31.069 --> 00:26:34.170
But given the fact that Catherine's parents had had sex
574
00:26:34.569 --> 00:26:37.890
five times on their wedding night, Catherine was not about
575
00:26:37.950 --> 00:26:40.619
to settle for just three. And of course, Catherine knew
576
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:43.460
everything about her parents' sex lives because there was never
577
00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:48.809
any restraint or regard for propriety or discretion. Sex was everywhere.
578
00:26:48.829 --> 00:26:52.029
It was violent. It was abusive. It was taken. It
579
00:26:52.410 --> 00:26:54.849
was in her face constantly. So much so that when
580
00:26:54.890 --> 00:26:56.670
she grew up to get married, she knew that her
581
00:26:56.710 --> 00:26:58.960
parents had sex five times on their wedding night. So
582
00:26:58.980 --> 00:27:00.119
she didn't want to settle for three.
583
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:01.980
That's a very high bar.
584
00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:03.839
It's a very high bar. And that when you do
585
00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:07.140
the research on this case, that's what literally everyone says
586
00:27:07.180 --> 00:27:09.740
when they're reporting about this. They're like, what the fuck? Like,
587
00:27:09.799 --> 00:27:13.809
be happy, dude. You got three, three like romps in
588
00:27:13.829 --> 00:27:14.569
the hay.
589
00:27:14.869 --> 00:27:16.789
Or maybe her parents were lying and exaggerating.
590
00:27:16.809 --> 00:27:18.289
Maybe. She wasn't around yet.
591
00:27:18.309 --> 00:27:20.769
Oh, I had sex five times on my wedding night.
592
00:27:21.170 --> 00:27:22.829
All right, seven. Shut up.
593
00:27:22.950 --> 00:27:23.710
She was pissed.
594
00:27:23.930 --> 00:27:24.130
Yeah.
595
00:27:24.170 --> 00:27:28.170
So she wrapped her hands around David's neck. and began
596
00:27:28.230 --> 00:27:33.220
to choke him and violently assault him while screaming five times.
597
00:27:35.779 --> 00:27:38.619
I read a very apropos line in an article from
598
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:42.849
all that's interesting.com and it read first comes love. Then
599
00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:43.990
comes attempted murder.
600
00:27:44.450 --> 00:27:44.650
Yeah.
601
00:27:44.990 --> 00:27:47.960
That's basically sums it up pretty much. You know those
602
00:27:47.980 --> 00:27:50.480
pieces in your closet that you find yourself reaching for
603
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:54.180
over and over again? The hoodie that goes with everything,
604
00:27:54.200 --> 00:27:57.150
the jeans you know will always fit just right, or
605
00:27:57.190 --> 00:27:59.869
the bag you carry everywhere? Those are the pieces that
606
00:27:59.930 --> 00:28:03.650
earn a permanent place in your wardrobe. And that's exactly
607
00:28:03.710 --> 00:28:08.839
what Quince does so well. Quince makes elevated, everyday essentials
608
00:28:09.019 --> 00:28:14.440
using premium materials like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and premium
609
00:28:14.500 --> 00:28:18.680
stretch denim. The designs are timeless, thoughtfully crafted, and made
610
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:22.119
to be worn again and again, which is exactly what
611
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:24.390
I do. It's a perfect place to shop as the
612
00:28:24.430 --> 00:28:28.470
weather gets colder, too, because Quince has everything from warm,
613
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responsibly sourced down jackets to cozy cashmere scarves and gloves.
614
00:28:33.180 --> 00:28:37.460
I am obsessed with their Responsible Downcropped Puffer Jacket. It
615
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comes in so many colors and it's water repellent, wind resistant,
616
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and just like super cute. Everything at Quince is priced
617
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50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly
618
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with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen, so you're
619
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paying for quality, not brand markup. Find the fall pieces
620
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you'll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app
621
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for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping
622
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on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada
623
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and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you
624
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heard about them, let them know it was Psychopedia. It's
625
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the best way to support the show. Today's episode is
626
00:29:17.309 --> 00:29:19.569
brought to you by Vinted. I recently did one of
627
00:29:19.609 --> 00:29:22.539
those aggressive closet cleanouts where you finally have to admit
628
00:29:22.559 --> 00:29:24.839
that the shirt you've moved from hanger to hanger for
629
00:29:24.980 --> 00:29:28.289
four years is not, in fact... Coming back into rotation,
630
00:29:28.309 --> 00:29:30.980
I have so many clothes that I keep just because
631
00:29:31.240 --> 00:29:33.539
maybe I'll wear this again. Meanwhile, I have not worn
632
00:29:33.579 --> 00:29:36.789
it in actual years. And eventually you realize I'm running
633
00:29:36.809 --> 00:29:39.130
out of room for clothes that I actually wear because
634
00:29:39.190 --> 00:29:41.500
half of my closet is being occupied by clothes I'm
635
00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:45.660
emotionally supporting. That is where Vinted comes in. Vinted is
636
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:48.940
a secondhand marketplace app that makes it really easy for
637
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everyday people like you and me to sell the clothing
638
00:29:51.470 --> 00:29:53.910
that we're no longer wearing and make some extra money
639
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in the process. And the part I appreciate is that
640
00:29:56.809 --> 00:30:00.789
selling is actually simple. You take some pictures, create your listing,
641
00:30:01.029 --> 00:30:03.849
set your price, and you're done. Then, once something sells,
642
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Vinted creates the prepaid shipping label for you. But my
643
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favorite part? There are no seller fees. The Vinted app
644
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is completely free to download, and when you sell something,
645
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you keep everything you earn, which also makes it significantly
646
00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:21.230
easier for me to justify buying something new. It also
647
00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:24.599
just feels better knowing that instead of perfectly good clothes
648
00:30:24.660 --> 00:30:27.920
sitting untouched in my closet for another five years, somebody
649
00:30:27.980 --> 00:30:30.779
else can actually wear and enjoy it. So go look
650
00:30:30.819 --> 00:30:33.539
in your closet. Seriously, you might be surprised by how
651
00:30:33.579 --> 00:30:36.339
much money is just sitting in there waiting for you.
652
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Ready to clean out your closet and make some extra money?
653
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Download the Vinted app for free and start listing. With
654
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no seller fees, you keep every dollar you earn. So
655
00:30:45.259 --> 00:30:47.500
David woke up and he managed to fight off his
656
00:30:47.579 --> 00:30:50.779
knife-wielding bride. And even though Catherine attempted to kill him
657
00:30:50.839 --> 00:30:53.539
less than 24 hours into their marriage, the couple somehow
658
00:30:53.579 --> 00:30:54.759
lasted for 10 years.
659
00:30:54.920 --> 00:30:55.839
Oh my God.
660
00:30:56.420 --> 00:30:58.160
And it went as well as you could have expected
661
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:02.680
given their personalities. David struggled with alcoholism and would cheat
662
00:31:02.779 --> 00:31:07.799
on Catherine regularly, which would regularly send Catherine into violent, jealous,
663
00:31:08.180 --> 00:31:09.339
murderous rages.
664
00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:10.559
In a small town too.
665
00:31:10.599 --> 00:31:12.200
Correct. Everyone knew their business.
666
00:31:12.279 --> 00:31:12.539
Yeah.
667
00:31:13.079 --> 00:31:14.720
On that note, pop quiz.
668
00:31:15.059 --> 00:31:17.240
Okay. These are so exciting for me.
669
00:31:18.259 --> 00:31:21.900
What did Catherine do in response to discovering one of
670
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:22.779
David's affairs?
671
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:25.009
I'm going to get this one. A.
672
00:31:25.349 --> 00:31:27.950
Did she chase him down their block swinging a stolen
673
00:31:28.130 --> 00:31:33.250
axe and smoking a cigarette? Did she place their two-month-old infant, Melissa,
674
00:31:33.430 --> 00:31:36.450
on the local train tracks shortly before a train was due?
675
00:31:37.329 --> 00:31:41.150
Or C. Did she lay David's drunk, blacked-out body on
676
00:31:41.190 --> 00:31:44.769
the ground before driving her Pontiac 200 over his legs,
677
00:31:45.230 --> 00:31:47.589
first in drive and then in reverse?
678
00:31:49.019 --> 00:31:50.029
So drive over him.
679
00:31:50.089 --> 00:31:50.529
Drive over him.
680
00:31:50.549 --> 00:31:51.490
Put the baby on the tracks.
681
00:31:52.309 --> 00:31:53.529
Chase him with a stolen axe.
682
00:31:54.390 --> 00:31:55.430
Chase him with a stolen axe.
683
00:31:55.710 --> 00:31:55.910
No.
684
00:31:56.829 --> 00:31:57.750
Put the baby on the tracks.
685
00:31:57.829 --> 00:31:58.210
Yes.
686
00:31:58.509 --> 00:31:59.750
Yeah, that one's bad.
687
00:32:00.190 --> 00:32:00.670
That's bad.
688
00:32:00.750 --> 00:32:02.630
The other one, I'm trying to find out if there's
689
00:32:02.670 --> 00:32:04.990
a tell for you where I know you're making things up.
690
00:32:04.990 --> 00:32:05.670
Like a poker face?
691
00:32:05.779 --> 00:32:06.079
Yeah.
692
00:32:06.690 --> 00:32:08.680
Well, then I'm just going to hide behind my computer
693
00:32:08.700 --> 00:32:10.339
screen when I do these quizzes.
694
00:32:10.359 --> 00:32:13.440
Yeah. Saying put it in, drove over and then put
695
00:32:13.460 --> 00:32:15.920
it in reverse. Actually, no, that's, I mean. Details.
696
00:32:15.980 --> 00:32:18.180
The devil's in the details. I feel like that. Yeah,
697
00:32:18.200 --> 00:32:19.460
you are the devil.
698
00:32:19.500 --> 00:32:21.819
I am. Satan. Wait, so what happened with the baby?
699
00:32:21.880 --> 00:32:22.900
She took the baby off the train.
700
00:32:23.099 --> 00:32:25.319
A pedestrian found the baby before the train came.
701
00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:26.099
She left it there?
702
00:32:26.119 --> 00:32:29.960
She left baby Melissa on the train tracks. And this
703
00:32:30.009 --> 00:32:34.069
was her fucked up way of sticking it to David
704
00:32:34.109 --> 00:32:34.869
for cheating on her.
705
00:32:34.890 --> 00:32:37.180
Wow. Wow. Horrible.
706
00:32:37.259 --> 00:32:37.740
Horrible.
707
00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:38.500
This woman sucked.
708
00:32:38.559 --> 00:32:42.990
Well, she was, understandably, she was institutionalized after that incident.
709
00:32:43.130 --> 00:32:43.269
Yeah.
710
00:32:43.309 --> 00:32:47.369
And she was institutionalized two other times as well. Once,
711
00:32:47.609 --> 00:32:51.190
after violently thrashing her newborn baby around in a public square.
712
00:32:51.210 --> 00:32:53.450
The second time was the train tracks.
713
00:32:54.009 --> 00:32:54.470
Jesus.
714
00:32:54.490 --> 00:32:57.200
And the third time was she took the entire family
715
00:32:57.279 --> 00:33:00.660
hostage in an attempt to get David back after he
716
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:01.240
had left her.
717
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:03.259
Wow. Wonder why he left.
718
00:33:03.819 --> 00:33:04.700
Each time.
719
00:33:04.779 --> 00:33:05.880
Sorry, they're both bad.
720
00:33:05.940 --> 00:33:07.900
I get it. Well, she's a little worse.
721
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:12.390
Some people just aren't good together. Like toothpaste and orange juice. Okay.
722
00:33:13.029 --> 00:33:16.750
Each time she was released from the institution, the cycle
723
00:33:16.769 --> 00:33:20.480
of violence would continue. She would regularly attack David after
724
00:33:20.539 --> 00:33:23.880
accusing him of cheating and even fractured his skull with
725
00:33:23.940 --> 00:33:27.230
a skillet. attempted to kill him with a broken beer bottle,
726
00:33:27.410 --> 00:33:30.069
and burned all of his belongings in their bathtub. These
727
00:33:30.109 --> 00:33:33.809
are all separate incidents. She just was out of control.
728
00:33:33.890 --> 00:33:35.529
Yeah, that sucks.
729
00:33:35.930 --> 00:33:39.299
Eventually, ironically, it was Catherine who took the two children
730
00:33:39.380 --> 00:33:41.720
and left David. But it had less to do with
731
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:44.220
her being jealous and more to do with her needing
732
00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:46.720
to be the one in absolute control of the situation.
733
00:33:46.819 --> 00:33:50.099
So that was her final power play. Catherine had several
734
00:33:50.220 --> 00:33:52.480
tumultuous relationships following David Kellett.
735
00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:55.660
In 1986. He started dating somebody else?
736
00:33:55.720 --> 00:33:56.599
Oh, like immediately.
737
00:33:57.180 --> 00:33:58.309
Who? How?
738
00:33:58.349 --> 00:34:00.750
And the funny thing is, or not funny, but this
739
00:34:00.789 --> 00:34:04.289
was a small town. Yeah. So people knew her story.
740
00:34:04.710 --> 00:34:07.509
The victim that I referenced at the very, very top
741
00:34:07.529 --> 00:34:09.610
of the show, he was new to the area, so
742
00:34:09.630 --> 00:34:14.380
he actually didn't know her history, but these other gentlemen did.
743
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:16.880
She used that against him. Yeah. Cut his head off.
744
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:20.099
Well, let's find out exactly what happened. The head was
745
00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:22.099
in the pot, so I'll give you that. So it's
746
00:34:22.099 --> 00:34:24.960
1986 at this point in the case, and she enters
747
00:34:25.019 --> 00:34:28.650
another toxic relationship with a local miner named David Saunders.
748
00:34:29.210 --> 00:34:32.809
She assaulted Saunders with a hot iron after he'd come
749
00:34:32.849 --> 00:34:37.469
home late from work one day and displayed outrageously impulsive
750
00:34:37.590 --> 00:34:39.769
and cruel acts of violence when he would threaten to
751
00:34:39.829 --> 00:34:41.369
leave her, including.
752
00:34:41.389 --> 00:34:43.860
Incredible fear of abandonment.
753
00:34:44.380 --> 00:34:45.659
That's exactly right.
754
00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:45.750
EPD.
755
00:34:45.820 --> 00:34:45.960
Yes.
756
00:34:46.039 --> 00:34:48.789
I know, see? I pay attention.
757
00:34:48.949 --> 00:34:50.969
You do, but then you retain the knowledge.
758
00:34:51.010 --> 00:34:54.309
I don't know anything beforehand, but then I remember. Yeah.
759
00:34:54.389 --> 00:34:55.610
Well, good for you. You're paying attention.
760
00:34:55.699 --> 00:34:55.889
Yeah.
761
00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:59.619
So I mentioned that she had these impulsive, cruel acts
762
00:34:59.659 --> 00:35:01.380
of violence when he would threaten to leave her. So
763
00:35:01.420 --> 00:35:02.739
I'm going to pop quiz you now.
764
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:03.179
Okay.
765
00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:06.940
Did it include a chopping off the tips of his
766
00:35:07.099 --> 00:35:11.780
fingers and tossing the flesh down the garbage disposal? B,
767
00:35:11.960 --> 00:35:16.019
throwing acid directly into his face to create the irreversible
768
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:20.889
formation of black dead skin. Or C, did she slit
769
00:35:20.929 --> 00:35:23.989
the throat of his two-month-old dingo puppy in front of him?
770
00:35:24.010 --> 00:35:25.429
Oh my God.
771
00:35:26.010 --> 00:35:26.769
Pick your poison.
772
00:35:27.010 --> 00:35:30.610
She slit the throat of the puppy. She did. You
773
00:35:30.650 --> 00:35:31.320
know how I know that?
774
00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:32.639
I know how you know that, but you can tell
775
00:35:32.699 --> 00:35:33.300
our listeners.
776
00:35:33.420 --> 00:35:35.079
Because you'd never make that up. Yep.
777
00:35:35.550 --> 00:35:38.130
There's no fucking way I would bring an innocent dog
778
00:35:38.210 --> 00:35:39.980
into this case if I could avoid it.
779
00:35:40.110 --> 00:35:41.110
Real or fake?
780
00:35:41.409 --> 00:35:42.289
Real or fake.
781
00:35:43.269 --> 00:35:45.409
Oh, my God. She cut a dingo's throat?
782
00:35:45.429 --> 00:35:46.809
Clean cut, straight through.
783
00:35:47.230 --> 00:35:48.050
How old was the puppy?
784
00:35:48.070 --> 00:35:48.610
Two months.
785
00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:49.280
Two months? Yep.
786
00:35:50.860 --> 00:35:53.059
She went in the yard. She picked up the puppy.
787
00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:55.400
And without hesitation, she took one of her knives and
788
00:35:55.480 --> 00:35:57.480
she cut straight through.
789
00:35:57.500 --> 00:35:59.219
This woman's just out of her mind.
790
00:35:59.239 --> 00:36:00.159
Out of her mind.
791
00:36:00.219 --> 00:36:00.500
Yeah.
792
00:36:01.179 --> 00:36:04.809
Still, they stayed together and eventually had a daughter one
793
00:36:04.849 --> 00:36:08.030
year later. But let's fast forward because eventually he did
794
00:36:08.090 --> 00:36:11.449
leave her shortly after the birth because she stabbed him
795
00:36:11.510 --> 00:36:13.429
in the stomach with a pair of scissors.
796
00:36:13.449 --> 00:36:14.070
Smart move.
797
00:36:14.449 --> 00:36:18.730
I'm not really sure what he expected her to do
798
00:36:18.849 --> 00:36:21.550
or not do based on her past, but I guess
799
00:36:21.570 --> 00:36:22.809
that was the final straw for him.
800
00:36:22.869 --> 00:36:23.139
Sure.
801
00:36:23.739 --> 00:36:27.079
Which now brings us to the crux of tonight's case.
802
00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:27.699
Crux.
803
00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:32.500
To the incident that changed Australian history forever. and made
804
00:36:32.539 --> 00:36:37.059
Catherine Knight its most infamous and brutal female killer ever.
805
00:36:38.340 --> 00:36:41.210
Until this point, we've seen Catherine Knight as an unpredictable,
806
00:36:41.329 --> 00:36:44.469
volatile person who used fear and violence to get what
807
00:36:44.510 --> 00:36:48.150
she wanted when she wanted it. But here, we're going
808
00:36:48.170 --> 00:36:51.489
to see a very cold and calculated Catherine Knight, a
809
00:36:51.590 --> 00:36:57.159
well-thought-out woman in total control of her fucked-up decisions. It's
810
00:36:57.239 --> 00:37:01.250
October 1993. And Catherine, by this point, has four children
811
00:37:01.309 --> 00:37:04.909
with three different men. And she meets the coal miner
812
00:37:04.949 --> 00:37:07.409
who I referenced earlier. He's the new kid on the block.
813
00:37:07.449 --> 00:37:09.599
He's new to town. His name is John Price, and
814
00:37:09.639 --> 00:37:13.480
he's known as Pricey because it's Australia. Pricey had three
815
00:37:13.539 --> 00:37:16.099
children of his own. And by this point, Catherine and
816
00:37:16.139 --> 00:37:18.860
Pricey are 38 years old, just for reference.
817
00:37:18.949 --> 00:37:21.670
Sure. Thank you. I appreciate the detail. Devil? Mm-hmm.
818
00:37:22.510 --> 00:37:23.670
Did you call me devil?
819
00:37:23.889 --> 00:37:24.329
Yeah.
820
00:37:24.630 --> 00:37:28.300
Accurate. The beginning of Catherine Knight and John Price's relationship
821
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:32.829
was actually without complication. John's children liked Catherine. He made
822
00:37:32.869 --> 00:37:36.550
enough money as a minor to keep her comfortable. And
823
00:37:36.650 --> 00:37:39.230
she started to stay in his home in 1995. She
824
00:37:39.269 --> 00:37:41.389
didn't move in officially, but she would stay with him.
825
00:37:41.409 --> 00:37:45.070
And things were going pretty smoothly. Until Catherine decided that
826
00:37:45.130 --> 00:37:47.630
she wanted the two of them to get married. But
827
00:37:47.710 --> 00:37:48.769
Pricey refused.
828
00:37:49.449 --> 00:37:50.309
Little does he know.
829
00:37:50.550 --> 00:37:53.719
Her first move was to punish Pricey by tormenting his
830
00:37:53.900 --> 00:37:57.920
then-teenage daughters. She sat them down and told them that
831
00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:00.960
Pricey wasn't their real father and that their mother had
832
00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:05.639
slept around, which was not true. But like how fucking
833
00:38:05.719 --> 00:38:06.619
horrible is that?
834
00:38:06.739 --> 00:38:07.260
Twisted.
835
00:38:07.380 --> 00:38:11.800
Twisted. She also took video footage of first aid kits
836
00:38:11.900 --> 00:38:15.170
that Pricey had stolen from work and then sent them
837
00:38:15.269 --> 00:38:18.389
to his employer and to the cops, resulting in Pricey's
838
00:38:18.429 --> 00:38:20.230
termination from his place of employment.
839
00:38:20.750 --> 00:38:21.010
Wow.
840
00:38:21.429 --> 00:38:23.110
I would say you can't make it up, but she did.
841
00:38:23.170 --> 00:38:24.550
And then she executed on it.
842
00:38:24.769 --> 00:38:27.429
Yeah, doing the thing is what the, you know. Right.
843
00:38:27.570 --> 00:38:28.710
It's the follow through.
844
00:38:29.449 --> 00:38:33.159
That's fucking crazy. All right. So keep going with this nightmare.
845
00:38:33.980 --> 00:38:38.559
Unbelievably, Pricey, who's now 43 in the case, took Catherine back.
846
00:38:39.260 --> 00:38:41.679
And this decision would end up costing him his life.
847
00:38:42.559 --> 00:38:45.760
On the night of February 29th, 2000, which must have
848
00:38:45.780 --> 00:38:48.360
been like a leap year because there really aren't 29
849
00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:49.340
days in February.
850
00:38:49.539 --> 00:38:49.699
Yeah.
851
00:38:50.750 --> 00:38:52.969
Catherine slipped on a sexy black nightie.
852
00:38:52.989 --> 00:38:54.070
You don't miss anything, do you?
853
00:38:54.170 --> 00:38:58.489
And joined, I am an investigator. So she puts on
854
00:38:58.530 --> 00:39:01.889
her black nightie and she joins John in bed. She
855
00:39:01.929 --> 00:39:05.530
initiates sex. They have sex. And John falls asleep and
856
00:39:05.610 --> 00:39:09.199
never wakes up. Jeez. This brings us full circle to
857
00:39:09.239 --> 00:39:11.760
the top of the episode. When the police were called
858
00:39:11.920 --> 00:39:14.840
the next morning to conduct a wellness check on John Price,
859
00:39:14.900 --> 00:39:18.719
who uncharacteristically hadn't turned up for work the morning of
860
00:39:18.780 --> 00:39:19.420
March 1st.
861
00:39:19.699 --> 00:39:22.610
The coal miner. Yes. Good worker.
862
00:39:23.010 --> 00:39:23.269
Yes.
863
00:39:23.429 --> 00:39:23.989
That guy?
864
00:39:24.130 --> 00:39:24.650
That guy.
865
00:39:24.809 --> 00:39:25.789
Didn't show up for work?
866
00:39:25.829 --> 00:39:26.070
Right.
867
00:39:26.360 --> 00:39:27.739
We better do a wellness check.
868
00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:28.760
Amen. Yeah.
869
00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:31.739
Yeah. he's married to that crazy bitch.
870
00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:36.030
Probably had less to do with the fact that he
871
00:39:36.050 --> 00:39:37.730
didn't show up for work and more to do with
872
00:39:37.750 --> 00:39:39.210
the fact that he was married to Catherine Knight.
873
00:39:39.250 --> 00:39:39.530
Yeah.
874
00:39:40.469 --> 00:39:44.219
After the cops forcibly entered the home, And followed the
875
00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:47.019
blood trail leading from the living room to the kitchen.
876
00:39:47.559 --> 00:39:50.139
They were met with what I previously mentioned looked like
877
00:39:50.179 --> 00:39:52.739
a typical dinner scene. There were two plates of food
878
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:55.780
containing cooked veggies, a cut of steak, and gravy, as
879
00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:58.860
well as name cards containing the names of John's children.
880
00:39:59.019 --> 00:39:59.239
Yeah.
881
00:40:00.070 --> 00:40:03.289
Only the steaks on the plates were not made of beef.
882
00:40:03.789 --> 00:40:04.369
Kangaroo.
883
00:40:04.550 --> 00:40:06.389
They were made of John Price.
884
00:40:06.670 --> 00:40:07.190
Wow.
885
00:40:07.730 --> 00:40:08.769
And the head cooking in the pot.
886
00:40:08.789 --> 00:40:11.250
Oh, she's a slaughterhouse person. Ugh.
887
00:40:11.780 --> 00:40:13.900
And the head in the pot, along with the cabbage
888
00:40:13.940 --> 00:40:19.119
and the seasoning, also belonged to John Price. And the
889
00:40:19.219 --> 00:40:22.880
non-fabric curtain that I mentioned earlier, I don't know why
890
00:40:22.900 --> 00:40:25.280
I said it like curtain, that I mentioned earlier.
891
00:40:25.300 --> 00:40:25.739
Curtain.
892
00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:28.679
The one that the police officer, whose name was Scott Matthews,
893
00:40:28.760 --> 00:40:31.280
had to push aside to get in that left the
894
00:40:31.300 --> 00:40:34.480
blood on his arm, was in fact a human pelt
895
00:40:34.820 --> 00:40:39.030
made from John Price's skinned corpse. And it was hanging
896
00:40:39.070 --> 00:40:39.949
from a meat hook.
897
00:40:40.510 --> 00:40:41.670
These slaughterhouse people.
898
00:40:41.989 --> 00:40:45.469
She knew what she was doing. It was a clean, once-over,
899
00:40:45.690 --> 00:40:47.489
entire skin suit.
900
00:40:47.769 --> 00:40:48.090
Yeah.
901
00:40:48.409 --> 00:40:51.250
Ripped off his body and hung up on a meat hook.
902
00:40:51.510 --> 00:40:51.929
Jesus.
903
00:40:51.989 --> 00:40:54.010
Well, she filleted his body expertly.
904
00:40:54.030 --> 00:40:54.530
Yeah.
905
00:40:54.679 --> 00:40:57.219
And intended to serve it to his children.
906
00:40:57.739 --> 00:40:58.079
Wow.
907
00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:00.980
She also put a piece of it in the dog bowl,
908
00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:02.960
which I'm not okay with.
909
00:41:03.719 --> 00:41:04.800
For obvious reasons. Right.
910
00:41:05.940 --> 00:41:09.420
So here's what happened after John Price had fallen asleep
911
00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:12.519
on that fateful night. Catherine took one of her cherished
912
00:41:12.579 --> 00:41:17.739
butcher knives from near her bed and stabbed Pricey 37 times.
913
00:41:18.510 --> 00:41:21.090
According to evidence, he woke up during the attack, but
914
00:41:21.130 --> 00:41:24.929
he was unable to fight her off. Then Catherine dragged
915
00:41:24.969 --> 00:41:30.650
his lifeless body downstairs, expertly skinned his mutilated corpse, and
916
00:41:30.750 --> 00:41:32.809
hung the skin suit from a meat hook in the
917
00:41:32.849 --> 00:41:33.289
living room.
918
00:41:33.389 --> 00:41:35.269
He's dead at this point. He's dead. Obviously.
919
00:41:35.289 --> 00:41:40.409
He died mercifully after the stabbings. She decapitated John's head.
920
00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:43.489
chopped up pieces of his body, and cooked them in
921
00:41:43.530 --> 00:41:49.090
a pot with potato, pumpkin, beets, zucchini, cabbage, squash, and gravy.
922
00:41:49.510 --> 00:41:50.070
Why?
923
00:41:50.409 --> 00:41:56.219
Because she ate him. She prepared a plate for herself
924
00:41:56.400 --> 00:41:57.219
and ate him.
925
00:41:57.340 --> 00:41:58.960
Why'd she try to make it good, though?
926
00:41:58.980 --> 00:42:02.139
If you're gonna do it, do it. Put your best
927
00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:05.230
foot forward. I mean, when you cook, do you add
928
00:42:05.269 --> 00:42:06.050
a little seasoning?
929
00:42:06.070 --> 00:42:07.909
I don't eat people. It doesn't matter.
930
00:42:07.929 --> 00:42:10.500
She doesn't give a fuck if it's a person. She's eating.
931
00:42:10.539 --> 00:42:11.579
She wants it to taste good.
932
00:42:11.659 --> 00:42:13.420
I feel like if you're eating a person, you just
933
00:42:13.860 --> 00:42:15.320
gum down whatever comes your way.
934
00:42:15.380 --> 00:42:19.110
Would you rather eat an arm that's unseasoned or an
935
00:42:19.179 --> 00:42:19.969
arm that's seasoned?
936
00:42:20.010 --> 00:42:21.829
Zero of them. None of them.
937
00:42:21.989 --> 00:42:23.610
Gun to your head. Which one are you eating?
938
00:42:23.869 --> 00:42:25.949
Gun to my head. Put the gun.
939
00:42:25.909 --> 00:42:27.590
To your head and pull the trigger before you eat
940
00:42:27.630 --> 00:42:28.110
a human arm.
941
00:42:28.369 --> 00:42:33.000
No, no food around. Starving. Person's dead already. Obviously, that's
942
00:42:33.039 --> 00:42:35.659
not the case here. I don't know. I think I
943
00:42:35.820 --> 00:42:37.579
would just eat it. I wouldn't be looking for it
944
00:42:37.619 --> 00:42:40.300
to taste like Old Bay or something.
945
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:43.769
Keep something in mind. She was in control. This is
946
00:42:43.829 --> 00:42:46.989
important to understand, and you'll understand why when we start
947
00:42:47.030 --> 00:42:50.199
to discuss her sentence. She knew what she was doing.
948
00:42:50.300 --> 00:42:52.960
She was very much in control. She was very thought out.
949
00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:54.099
This was calculated.
950
00:42:54.199 --> 00:42:55.320
She didn't have a psychotic break.
951
00:42:55.360 --> 00:42:57.619
She didn't snap where she, she was in some kind
952
00:42:57.659 --> 00:43:00.300
of red zone and not processing what she was doing
953
00:43:00.340 --> 00:43:02.219
and not remembering what she was doing. And so she
954
00:43:02.409 --> 00:43:04.369
cuts them in slices and dices and throws in a
955
00:43:04.409 --> 00:43:07.309
stove and then eats. She prepared this.
956
00:43:07.469 --> 00:43:10.909
That's crazy. Sorry. I mean, don't mean to use that
957
00:43:10.929 --> 00:43:13.110
in a pejorative way, but it is crazy.
958
00:43:13.369 --> 00:43:15.690
It's not, not crazy. It's fucking mental.
959
00:43:15.710 --> 00:43:17.349
It's crazy. Fucking mentally.
960
00:43:18.179 --> 00:43:21.130
If you wear prescription glasses or sunglasses, you probably know
961
00:43:21.150 --> 00:43:23.829
the drill. You hang on to the same pair until
962
00:43:23.869 --> 00:43:28.280
they're practically begging to be replaced. Scratch lenses, whatever. Loose
963
00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:31.079
screw will survive. Because who wants to shell out a
964
00:43:31.119 --> 00:43:33.079
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965
00:43:33.179 --> 00:43:36.989
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966
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967
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968
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969
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970
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971
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972
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973
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974
00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:13.219
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975
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976
00:44:16.619 --> 00:44:20.039
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977
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they're my usual style, only better. Think oversized Hollywood glam, black-rimmed,
978
00:44:25.659 --> 00:44:29.619
purple lenses, so fly. And they cost around $ 80. I
979
00:44:29.900 --> 00:44:33.760
would have paid double, triple that somewhere else. That scratched
980
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984
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985
00:44:57.110 --> 00:45:01.210
In the middle of this macabre nightmare, the cops hear
986
00:45:01.250 --> 00:45:03.829
a noise coming out of the bedroom. Pop quiz.
987
00:45:04.289 --> 00:45:04.630
Oh, boy.
988
00:45:05.269 --> 00:45:07.960
Did the cops find Catherine Knight snoring on the bed
989
00:45:07.980 --> 00:45:13.320
after swallowing a fistful of pills? Did they find Catherine
990
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:17.320
Knight sharpening knives in her black nightie? Did they find
991
00:45:17.360 --> 00:45:20.829
Catherine Knight wearing an apron and bagging up John Price's organs?
992
00:45:23.409 --> 00:45:24.550
Snoring? Yes.
993
00:45:25.489 --> 00:45:26.929
Yes. You nailed it.
994
00:45:26.989 --> 00:45:27.239
Great.
995
00:45:27.679 --> 00:45:29.500
She attempted to make it look like.
996
00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:31.059
I have to be honest, though. I was just going
997
00:45:31.139 --> 00:45:33.929
over in my head what the choices were, snoring, sharpening knives,
998
00:45:34.179 --> 00:45:37.150
or sorting his organs. Yeah. I just said snoring first.
999
00:45:37.170 --> 00:45:38.789
That wasn't actually my guess. I was like.
1000
00:45:38.809 --> 00:45:40.050
Why? It's just stuck in your head, you mean?
1001
00:45:40.510 --> 00:45:42.349
No, I was going back through, like, okay, what are
1002
00:45:42.369 --> 00:45:44.849
the choices again? Snoring, sharpening knives, like I was going to...
1003
00:45:44.849 --> 00:45:46.230
And then I said snoring, and you said yes.
1004
00:45:47.250 --> 00:45:51.199
Oh, you were reiterating what I had just said, and
1005
00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:53.260
I jumped the gun and told you you were right.
1006
00:45:53.300 --> 00:45:55.170
And you took the credit. Sometimes you get a lucky one.
1007
00:45:55.260 --> 00:45:55.860
I did not take the credit.
1008
00:45:55.880 --> 00:45:56.079
You didn't.
1009
00:45:56.099 --> 00:45:56.340
You're right.
1010
00:45:56.360 --> 00:45:56.659
I'm sorry.
1011
00:45:56.699 --> 00:45:59.630
You didn't. But I'm taking the credit now. That's what
1012
00:45:59.650 --> 00:46:01.210
I was going to say, snoring. Snoring, yep.
1013
00:46:01.530 --> 00:46:02.230
She was snoring.
1014
00:46:02.429 --> 00:46:05.369
Relaxed as hell. Yep. Just chilling.
1015
00:46:05.869 --> 00:46:08.849
She attempted to make it look like she was committing suicide.
1016
00:46:09.010 --> 00:46:09.230
Yeah.
1017
00:46:09.530 --> 00:46:13.050
That was not the case. The cops who stumbled upon
1018
00:46:13.210 --> 00:46:18.599
this whole horrendous scene have apparently never recovered from the
1019
00:46:19.019 --> 00:46:21.500
unfathomable horror of what they'd seen.
1020
00:46:21.539 --> 00:46:21.980
They're people.
1021
00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:24.800
Detective Sergeant Bob Wells, who was the lead investigator on
1022
00:46:24.820 --> 00:46:27.849
this case, suffered a nervous breakdown. And I've heard him
1023
00:46:27.889 --> 00:46:32.090
in interviews and he almost can't even articulate, even if
1024
00:46:32.429 --> 00:46:34.449
they're speaking to him just strictly about the facts and
1025
00:46:34.469 --> 00:46:36.710
not about how it affected him, but strictly about the facts,
1026
00:46:37.110 --> 00:46:41.619
he really struggles to even speak during these interviews.
1027
00:46:42.340 --> 00:46:42.980
What's the guy's name?
1028
00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:45.840
Detective Sergeant Bob Wells.
1029
00:46:46.139 --> 00:46:48.380
Detective Sergeant Bob Wells. I'm going to look up some
1030
00:46:48.420 --> 00:46:49.699
of his interviews. You should.
1031
00:46:50.460 --> 00:46:53.539
For the six days that followed, Catherine Knight was admitted
1032
00:46:53.579 --> 00:46:56.679
to Maitland Hospital claiming to have had no knowledge or
1033
00:46:56.739 --> 00:47:01.039
memory of the crime. Psychiatrists concluded that at the time
1034
00:47:01.079 --> 00:47:04.179
of the murder, Catherine Knight had not been suffering from
1035
00:47:04.280 --> 00:47:07.690
any type of mental illness. Further evidence to support that
1036
00:47:07.730 --> 00:47:11.489
she was of sound mind was discovered by John Price's solicitor,
1037
00:47:11.530 --> 00:47:15.010
so the guy who was representing John in this. He
1038
00:47:15.070 --> 00:47:19.030
found bank statements reflecting money withdrawals from the night that
1039
00:47:19.070 --> 00:47:23.449
Pricey was killed. And three weeks earlier, Catherine told her
1040
00:47:23.489 --> 00:47:26.860
brother that she planned to kill John Price and that
1041
00:47:26.920 --> 00:47:29.360
when she did, she'd get away with it because she'd
1042
00:47:29.380 --> 00:47:32.199
make everyone think that she was crazy. And he testified
1043
00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:32.539
to that.
1044
00:47:32.940 --> 00:47:35.570
Her brother? Mm-hmm. Good for him. Thank God for that guy.
1045
00:47:36.070 --> 00:47:39.130
So is it possible that Catherine Knight could have been
1046
00:47:39.289 --> 00:47:44.789
seen when she brutally killed, skinned, and cooked John Price?
1047
00:47:45.590 --> 00:47:48.679
How could someone be in their right mind and do
1048
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:51.980
what she did? Was she mad or was she bad?
1049
00:47:52.619 --> 00:47:56.000
That's the question. Like the age old question in like
1050
00:47:56.039 --> 00:47:58.250
insanity defense cases and what have you.
1051
00:47:58.389 --> 00:48:01.269
Yeah. I don't think she was mad, I think. And bad,
1052
00:48:01.329 --> 00:48:05.989
I mean, she's just way off. Unwell. Needs to go
1053
00:48:06.030 --> 00:48:08.619
to prison or probably just be killed. Like there's no,
1054
00:48:08.639 --> 00:48:10.260
you know. Yeah. Yeah.
1055
00:48:10.719 --> 00:48:14.679
After a forensic psychiatrist named Robert Delaforce spent eight hours
1056
00:48:14.739 --> 00:48:18.469
and 46 minutes with Catherine, he determined that not only
1057
00:48:18.550 --> 00:48:21.329
did she know exactly what she was doing when she
1058
00:48:21.389 --> 00:48:26.329
was doing it, but that she enjoyed it. Yeah. In Australia,
1059
00:48:26.429 --> 00:48:30.400
the law of, quote, mental impairment broadly states that to
1060
00:48:30.460 --> 00:48:33.159
establish a defense on the grounds of insanity, it must
1061
00:48:33.239 --> 00:48:36.199
be clearly proven that at the time of committing the act,
1062
00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:39.869
the accused's state of mind meant... that they did not
1063
00:48:39.969 --> 00:48:42.409
know what they were doing or if they did, that
1064
00:48:42.429 --> 00:48:45.369
it was wrong. So it was determined that Catherine was
1065
00:48:45.429 --> 00:48:47.510
not legally insane when she butchered John.
1066
00:48:47.710 --> 00:48:47.909
Yeah.
1067
00:48:48.010 --> 00:48:50.650
She planned what she had done. She knew right from wrong.
1068
00:48:51.110 --> 00:48:53.179
There were no voices in her head telling her to
1069
00:48:53.219 --> 00:48:56.199
carry out the murder. She was cold. She was calculated
1070
00:48:56.380 --> 00:48:57.599
and she was completely lucid.
1071
00:48:58.199 --> 00:49:01.360
That's terrible. If you're going to kill somebody, you want
1072
00:49:01.380 --> 00:49:03.519
to be blacked out for it. I think you don't
1073
00:49:03.539 --> 00:49:06.889
want to remember every detail of it unless you're, what
1074
00:49:06.929 --> 00:49:08.869
if you don't care? If you don't care, yeah, that's
1075
00:49:08.989 --> 00:49:09.829
really sad.
1076
00:49:11.110 --> 00:49:16.090
So, October 18th, 2001, Catherine Knight pleaded guilty to murdering
1077
00:49:16.130 --> 00:49:18.730
John Price, and she was sentenced to life in prison
1078
00:49:18.750 --> 00:49:22.820
at Silverwater Residence. Correctional Center in Western Sydney. And for
1079
00:49:22.860 --> 00:49:26.039
the first time in history, a woman in Australia was
1080
00:49:26.099 --> 00:49:28.500
given a life sentence without parole.
1081
00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:29.219
Good.
1082
00:49:29.900 --> 00:49:33.750
So the sentencing judge had the following to say, I
1083
00:49:33.789 --> 00:49:37.190
think this is interesting. So, and if anybody is interested
1084
00:49:37.210 --> 00:49:39.889
in like the legal angles of these cases, then they'll
1085
00:49:39.909 --> 00:49:42.400
find this interesting too. This is what the judge said.
1086
00:49:42.579 --> 00:49:45.199
From the foregoing, it can be seen that two of
1087
00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:48.090
the psychiatrists called to the case were of the view
1088
00:49:48.130 --> 00:49:51.449
that the prisoner had a borderline personality disorder, that the
1089
00:49:51.489 --> 00:49:55.210
prospects of ridding her of such disorder were in essence nil,
1090
00:49:55.769 --> 00:49:58.969
that she was and would remain a person dangerous to
1091
00:49:59.090 --> 00:50:01.670
others if set at large in the community, and that
1092
00:50:01.730 --> 00:50:06.090
she continued to be capable of inflicting quite serious physical harm,
1093
00:50:06.690 --> 00:50:10.269
even death on members of the community, particularly anyone who
1094
00:50:10.349 --> 00:50:15.679
crossed her. These included the family members of Mr. Price. Furthermore,
1095
00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:20.300
her history of serious violence, particularly involving knives and extending
1096
00:50:20.380 --> 00:50:24.480
over a long period, strongly supports the conclusion that were
1097
00:50:24.559 --> 00:50:27.320
she to be released into the community at any time,
1098
00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:31.440
she would likely inflict serious harm, perhaps death and even
1099
00:50:31.480 --> 00:50:33.260
mutilation on those who cross her.
1100
00:50:33.420 --> 00:50:33.619
Yeah.
1101
00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:37.699
He nailed it. So while she continues to maintain her
1102
00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:41.980
innocence and refuses to accept responsibility for her actions, even
1103
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:46.679
though she pleaded guilty, she still talks like she doesn't remember,
1104
00:50:46.780 --> 00:50:51.170
she's innocent. Catherine Knight will never, ever be released.
1105
00:50:51.409 --> 00:50:51.650
Good.
1106
00:50:52.309 --> 00:50:55.510
And the final pop quiz. Which one of the following
1107
00:50:55.630 --> 00:51:01.750
statements is true? A. During her incarceration, Catherine Knight became
1108
00:51:01.889 --> 00:51:06.179
prison friends with former penthouse pet Victoria Shembrey. It was
1109
00:51:06.199 --> 00:51:10.000
there for tax fraud. Okay. B, Catherine Knight sold her
1110
00:51:10.059 --> 00:51:13.199
house to a tourism agency, which turned it into a macabre,
1111
00:51:13.239 --> 00:51:16.860
there's your word, attraction, charging fees to those who dare
1112
00:51:16.909 --> 00:51:20.710
to go inside. Or C, Catherine Knight created and published
1113
00:51:20.769 --> 00:51:24.369
a cookbook during her incarceration called Cooking What You Kill.
1114
00:51:25.230 --> 00:51:28.570
Oh my God. So either she became friends with a playmate,
1115
00:51:29.409 --> 00:51:31.829
sold her house to the tourism board, or made a
1116
00:51:31.849 --> 00:51:36.530
cookbook called Cooking What You Kill. Right. Oh my God. Um,
1117
00:51:37.130 --> 00:51:42.989
I will say that she, uh, tourism agency.
1118
00:51:43.050 --> 00:51:44.969
Yeah. I don't know what board you're talking about.
1119
00:51:45.150 --> 00:51:48.050
Australian tourism board. Oh, she sold her house to the
1120
00:51:48.090 --> 00:51:48.840
tourism agency.
1121
00:51:49.599 --> 00:51:51.619
She did not. I mean, she might've put that out
1122
00:51:51.659 --> 00:51:52.760
of cookbook. No.
1123
00:51:53.119 --> 00:51:55.639
She became friends with a playmate, Victoria.
1124
00:51:56.340 --> 00:51:58.400
Yes. I don't even think I could have made that
1125
00:51:58.460 --> 00:52:02.780
one up. This penthouse pet was incarcerated for tax fraud.
1126
00:52:03.380 --> 00:52:05.940
And she speaks so highly of Catherine Knight.
1127
00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:06.420
Wow.
1128
00:52:06.559 --> 00:52:10.019
And they became pals in prison. So, you know, never
1129
00:52:10.059 --> 00:52:12.670
too late to just strike up a bestie.
1130
00:52:12.809 --> 00:52:15.530
Make a friend. Right. Over some crime. Yeah.
1131
00:52:16.210 --> 00:52:17.070
Tax fraud.
1132
00:52:17.650 --> 00:52:18.170
Cannibalism.
1133
00:52:18.190 --> 00:52:20.429
Cannibalism. There's really no difference at that point.
1134
00:52:20.630 --> 00:52:22.710
The IRS is sometimes worse than the FBI.
1135
00:52:22.769 --> 00:52:23.210
Could be.
1136
00:52:23.489 --> 00:52:23.789
You know?
1137
00:52:24.230 --> 00:52:25.050
You might know.
1138
00:52:25.230 --> 00:52:27.739
Not really. No, yeah, the IRS is. They don't play around.
1139
00:52:28.989 --> 00:52:30.909
They're not a joke. They're not to be trifled with.
1140
00:52:30.949 --> 00:52:33.809
Well, they threw her into prison with cannibals and murderers.
1141
00:52:34.389 --> 00:52:36.230
Yeah, those two things don't go together.
1142
00:52:36.289 --> 00:52:38.780
No, I know. I think about that, too. Because obviously
1143
00:52:38.820 --> 00:52:41.860
tax fraud is a serious crime. But really, she's rubbing
1144
00:52:41.900 --> 00:52:46.500
elbows with murderers and cannibals. Although she's not complaining. They
1145
00:52:46.519 --> 00:52:47.119
became close.
1146
00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:50.260
I did see a video before, totally off topic, about
1147
00:52:50.300 --> 00:52:53.099
a guy who ran from the police. I felt so
1148
00:52:53.159 --> 00:52:56.099
bad for the guy. He's like, I'm on probation. I
1149
00:52:56.119 --> 00:52:58.210
got kids at the house. And they were like, what
1150
00:52:58.230 --> 00:52:59.849
are you on probation for? He's like, I got arrested
1151
00:52:59.889 --> 00:53:04.110
for possession of marijuana. It's like, dude, you're going to
1152
00:53:04.269 --> 00:53:09.090
ruin this guy's life. It's so bad. Let's get some
1153
00:53:09.110 --> 00:53:10.590
laws in place that make sense.
1154
00:53:10.929 --> 00:53:14.599
Right. I believe in accountability, but I do believe that
1155
00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:17.400
there are circumstances that you have to consider if he's
1156
00:53:17.420 --> 00:53:20.239
trying to feed his children and there were no victims
1157
00:53:20.300 --> 00:53:21.059
involved in the crime.
1158
00:53:21.099 --> 00:53:23.079
He wasn't even selling drugs at that time. They pulled
1159
00:53:23.099 --> 00:53:25.800
him over for something else. And he got scared and ran.
1160
00:53:26.019 --> 00:53:26.780
It was heartbreaking.
1161
00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:27.679
Right. That is heartbreaking.
1162
00:53:27.699 --> 00:53:29.809
But this case is like that all the time. Right.
1163
00:53:29.869 --> 00:53:32.550
But then you have bail reform where they say, all right,
1164
00:53:32.590 --> 00:53:35.349
fuck it. No bail for anybody. So this guy who
1165
00:53:35.389 --> 00:53:38.030
may or may not have robbed us a store, we profiled.
1166
00:53:38.050 --> 00:53:40.630
We're admitting it. We're letting him out. Let out the
1167
00:53:40.650 --> 00:53:42.849
guy who we know who murdered three people so they
1168
00:53:42.869 --> 00:53:45.670
can walk the street until their trial date. Backwards. Man,
1169
00:53:46.010 --> 00:53:49.739
it's a blanket solution to an intricate problem.
1170
00:53:49.760 --> 00:53:51.280
It's not going to- Yeah, well said.
1171
00:53:51.400 --> 00:53:52.099
Thank you so much.
1172
00:53:52.639 --> 00:53:53.340
That was impressive.
1173
00:53:53.539 --> 00:53:56.079
Yeah. Blanket solution to an intricate problem.
1174
00:53:56.570 --> 00:53:56.889
I like it.
1175
00:53:56.929 --> 00:53:57.989
I know some words. Yeah.
1176
00:53:58.010 --> 00:54:00.030
You want to write the next episode? Sure. All right.
1177
00:54:00.309 --> 00:54:03.780
Not really. All right. So thank you for listening to that.
1178
00:54:03.880 --> 00:54:05.820
Sorry you had to sit through it with us and
1179
00:54:05.969 --> 00:54:09.199
go hear all the gory details. But you freaks probably
1180
00:54:09.219 --> 00:54:09.679
liked it.
1181
00:54:09.699 --> 00:54:11.980
You guys, don't be sorry. They love it.
1182
00:54:12.179 --> 00:54:12.710
You love it.
1183
00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:14.300
They love it. They're little freaks like me.
1184
00:54:14.320 --> 00:54:21.300
You little freak. So if you're enjoying the episode, please subscribe, rate, review.
1185
00:54:21.320 --> 00:54:26.219
Find Investigator Slater on social media. Investigator Slater. I'm Tank Sinatra,
1186
00:54:26.360 --> 00:54:29.329
and until then, have a great day and forget this
1187
00:54:29.610 --> 00:54:30.489
episode ever happened.
1188
00:54:30.750 --> 00:54:31.289
Thanks, guys.