Decoding Gestalt Language Processing with Iris Wong

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But first, am I pronouncing it correct, Iris?
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Is it gestalt or is it gestalt?
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And then I have to look it up every single time.
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And then I'm like, I'm gonna say gestalt.
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Buddy, welcome to uh PDA USA the podcast.
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Uh my name is Brooke Madeira.
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I'm the CEO of PDA USA, and I'm here with Amy Crewalt, our CEO, and Iris Wong, who is gonna talk to us today a little about a little bit about gestalt language processing.
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Um, but first, am I pronouncing it correct, Iris?
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Is it gestalt or is it gestalt or how do you say it properly?
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I hear variations and I get confused and I have to look it up every single time because then I'm like, oh wait, what about you, Amy?
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How do you say it?
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I've been saying it gestalt.
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Gestalt.
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Yeah.
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Ooh, I kind of like that.
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Yeah, I like how you say the S.
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Only when it comes to like language processing.
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If I'm talking about psychology, then I'll I'll do a gestar.
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Yeah.
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I have I have German heritage.
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Like I'm 50% German or something.
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So we're we get along.
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It is.
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We're both really I am also 50% German.
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We're both very, like half of us is very angry.
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And like from angry people, I'm not German.
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I can imagine solution.
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That's why we all get along.
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We're just part of us is really mad all the time.
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And then the other part of us is covering it up a little bit with humor or some other thing.
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But you gotta do something.
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That's the English.
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I know.
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Yeah, the English properness.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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I don't know what's going on on our end, but it's a whole international um thing.
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But you know, I do think it's like uh because it's interesting to me on the topic of this of how different languages, how we express ourselves, and it can sound the tone can be so different according to how we pronounce our consonants.
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Yes.
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My Germans sound so angry all the time, you know, because it's just all you know, it's just really terrifying.
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Um, but no, I think it's so interesting, different, you know.
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Yeah, different cultures, different things.
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That's like my whole thing.
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This is what I wanted to get a degree in.
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I wanted to study language, uh, the history of language, um, etymology, like word origin, yeah, and just how it evolves and how we express ourselves.
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And uh it's just so fascinating to me.
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I'm gonna teach piano later.
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And of course, doing the totally wrong thing.
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We're doing a little bit of everything.
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Uh it all connects.
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It all connects.
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It all connects.
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Thank you.
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Yes, we're gonna talk about that and how it all connects.
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Oh my gosh, yeah, let's talk about how it all connects.
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I feel like I'm about to have my mind blown.
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What?
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What?
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Why don't you have a PDA USA cup?
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I would if I did it, but I didn't.
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So because I don't plan to write it on here.
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Do you want to write something on there?
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I should get a sticky note and just pop it on there.
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Oh, so professional.
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Like, seriously, that's about how professional we are.
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And we look we're just leaning into it because it's not part of real.
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You've got to be flexible and just kind of let it all let it all hang out.
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Let it all hang out.
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Let it all hang out.
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Yeah, and honestly, as a listener, it lowers the vent demand.
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Like, I'm like, oh yeah.
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And then I'm like, oh, yeah, there we go.
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Yeah, but I don't always want to learn something.
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So all I do, and you know, I am gonna keep all this in the podcast recording because it is so authentic and real and raw.
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Um But all do is every once in a while I'll be like, oh hey guys, maybe I should actually ask a question that has we have written down and then we'll ask that question and we'll talk about that for a minute and then we'll see what happens.
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So how's that for a plan?
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That's I like it.
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I like it.
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You like it?
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Yeah, I think we're probably gonna just um end up meandering a lot.
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It's you know, it's kind of like what we happens.
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We this is how our conversations always work.
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We can things connect.
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Yeah, and the new things I'm listen like learning and listening to, I'm like, it's all part of it.
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Oh my gosh.
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Yeah, like I'm just discovered a new world and I'm a late adopter to these things.
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And I'm like, hey man, I get why you really like this person and they're writing now.
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But I have such demand avoidance.
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I couldn't dig into, but then I found an accessible land, so please.
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Oh yay! Yay! Okay, okay, okay, here I am doing my thing, by the way.
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Okay, uh so Iris, Iris, tell us a little about yourself and your experience with our topic today, and also maybe a little bit about PDA.
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Just share something.
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Yeah, yeah.
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This is gonna be different from how I've introduced myself otherwise.
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Okay, I had a discovery, it happened this morning.
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It sounds like such a fraud, but I think I'm a gestal processor too.
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And then I'll go back into later of why I couldn't figure it out for a while, because I think I overfocused on the language part because that's how I started learning about the gestalt thing.
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Because from the SLB people, but I feel like they're doing like one tiny corner of this like gigantic universe.
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I feel like so much of the autistic experience now that I'm like trying to listen in a way that is digestible for me, and we can talk about it later.
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But the PDA kids, I have a PDA kid, I'm late identified PDA along the whole journey.
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I have a GLP kid, and the PDA kid, I kept going, like, was he a GLP?
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Because his pattern was so different.
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My daughter one is more like what you would maybe expect.
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So I'm not interested.
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I don't know about him, but I'm like, oh, I don't know about my GLP Nest, but I'm like, I the gestalt processing part, I'm like, oh, I yeah, very much that's interesting.
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I have a feeling of examples.
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I think we're gonna, I think we're gonna make some discoveries today.
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I think, I mean, me personally at least, um, from the snippets I've heard too about, you know, gestalt language processing, I'm like, okay, you know, which is the next question.
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Actually, before I go off on my tangent, can you explain a little bit about Gestalt language processing so that our listeners have that context?
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What are we talking about today?
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Yeah, that sounds good.
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I'll try and I'm gonna do it my own way, and then Amy will fill in because I'm not very good at headlighting because I let people who who are like able to describe things well thematically do so uh and help me out.
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Um, I'm gonna do it in a kind of strange way.
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Is that okay?
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I'm gonna read one quote that I found like the beginnings of beautiful because there's so much more to this whole thing, and then I'll try to describe with like a speech therapisty parent way that I understand it.
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I'm very simple, so it won't sound like anyone else's.
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And then we'll go.
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Okay, sounds good.
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Yeah, let me try it.
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Okay, so this is from Dr.
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Jamie Horics.
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Is that how you say her last name?
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Is that how you pronounce it?
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I listened to it on her podcast.
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Is that said by somebody else?
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Yes, I'm not sure.
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No, I'm talking about pronunciation.
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In my head, Herricks, but we should do whatever she says in the podcast is probably how much we were pronounced it.
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Yeah, okay, cool.
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Well, so this this quote is um hers.
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And and it's from one of her Substack articles.
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And there's so many, there's so many things.
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Okay, that's what I'm saying.
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Why do certain phrases stay with us?
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For many Kestal processors, the answer is not that the words were simply copied, they were stored, held intact because they carried something larger than the words themselves.
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And so, like, I don't know, I feel like I think it like, you know, let's get to the whole like words are memory, words are emotion, words are embodied, words are our whole thing, but it's also not words, right?
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Like I mean over my time of exploring GLP stuff, I'm like, oh, but then listening more also to like non-speakers, minimal speakers, and families who have like GLPs too, that are in a very different experience, you know, have a different experience.
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But um anyway, so I but I yeah, because I uh how what I do before I come on podcasts or whatnot is like I listen to the two of you.
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So I know what like social vibes are into for my own number, and then I'll like listen to other pots just to like remember, like joggle my stuff.
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And so I was listening to some SLP people, and I'm like, oh yeah, there's this whole like you know history of gestalt language processing that apparently like you know, it went way far back.
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It was like an early autism literature with Leo Connor, I can't say his last name either, or like Barry Brisant, or I think it's Ann Peters, and then like Marjorie Long took it and then turned it into like this natural language acquisition thing and made a lot of stages.
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But like, in all honesty, even though I'm a trained SLP, like the stages overwhelm me.
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I can't remember and then in our day-to-day, as like a parent to a little GLP person who's four and a half, I don't constantly think about the stages.
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So, like hopefully that's also permission for the parent that's like, well, that is just a lot of like mental overload, but like and like focusing on like knowing what the meaning is or you know, yeah, so all the other stuff behind it.
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But um may maybe I'll be a helpful tool here because I am still getting familiar.
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I can I can be like representative of uh audience members who have no idea at all.
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Are we saying, so this is my understanding, it's that uh learning or expressing ourselves or uh what would it be, like attaching meaning to chunks of I mean let's start with the language.
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So uh using phrases that maybe in their particulars aren't communicating the message the person is trying to say, but for them, they have something else attached to the phrase or the thing they're trying to say, and so they use it to express those feelings, even if you broke the words down and you're like, I don't understand how you went from that to that, like point A to point B.
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Like for them, they have a whole context attached to what they're saying.
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Is that kind of what it is?
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Or Amy's here.
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Yeah, I think that's a good um a good basic kind of explanation of how it works functionally um for a lot of uh GLPs.
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Um because something that I always see too, and what I notice, like especially with my daughter, is that there's kind of like she has a mental Rolodex of scripts.
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And so those are the chunks of language that she has learned.
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Now she may have learned them from um a show, like a favorite YouTube show or cartoon, but that's how she is processing a situation that she's seeing on the video, right?
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So say there's a social situation or just whatever on the video.
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So when she comes across something in in regular life that is that reminds her of that, that's the chunk that fits into her brain.
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And so that's what comes out, and that helps her make sense of it as well as it helps her communicate what she's feeling about it.
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So it can be confusing if you don't watch the show.
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It's like I don't know where this came from.
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Yeah, yeah.
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But I've it's been so fascinating for me to see how it's like little puzzle pieces that she I don't like using that, but it is, it's like little, you know, let's say little Lego blocks, okay?
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Lego that like fit together and fit in these little chunks.
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Um and she can just kind of stick one in there when she feels like you know, I've seen where she gets really confused about what to say, but I can see her brain just sort of going through all those scripts in her head, and then she comes and then it comes out.
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Maybe she'll be something about SpongeBob, you know, because she watches the Spongebob video.
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But um it's but then if you go back and like analyze it, it's like, no, that makes complete sense because that's exactly what we were doing and talking about.
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It just looked totally different.
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Yeah.
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Long-winded ex uh way of agreeing with you.
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No, no, no, that's great.
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I mean, this is helping me.
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Iris, did you want to add anything or sure?
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No, thank you.
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That's cool.
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Because I could have gone on for like another 30 minutes.
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It's like, what is she talking about?
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But um, yeah, and so yeah, thank you, Amy, for for that example.
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But that is the world of the thing.
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So that is kind of, I mean, it it sounds like I've got the picture, so I'm trying to make sure I've got all the pieces here, or at least enough of an understanding of what it is we're talking about.
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And maybe even some example.
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I mean, you did give an example, but you shared an example even in a screenshot with us recently as we were preparing for this, where you showed, you know, your daughter said something and you responded in a very well-I mean, I hate to use the word logical here, but you know, you were trying to follow the flow of conversation, but she had a different intent with what she was saying.
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So yeah, use that.
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Um, yeah, I can I don't have the screenshot handy, but it's okay.
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I can show you.
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I remember what she was talking about.
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Yeah, yeah.
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But she was, yeah, because she was really excited about some, oh, some plushies, right?
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That she found and she wanted she her way of asking for them is to say, what if these were real?
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Oh.
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And so what she wants to do, she's processing her her love of this, of these plushies, of these characters, as well as trying to tell us, you know, I like this so much that I'd really like to have these.
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Um, I'd like for this to be a real part of my life, you know.
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But what she will say, her the way she asked was, what if these plushies were real?
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And I guess she had asked her dad the same question like the day before.
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And her dad said, Well, that would be great.
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So I forgot what I said, but it was like, I think I said, you know, I don't know.
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I guess, I guess that would be cool.
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I don't remember what I said, but I it wasn't what she needed to hear because it didn't follow what she had in her head in order to interact with with me about it.
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So she told me, um, well, I forgot exactly what it was, but you know, it was something like, um, no, dad said, uh how oh, that would be great.
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Try that, mom.
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You know, like so then I said, okay, that would be great.
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And that was it.
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She was done.
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Like she didn't respond because that was it was it was it was complete, you know?
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Interesting.
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Yeah, yeah, okay.
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Yeah, and yeah, I feel like there's so much here.
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Go ahead, Iris.
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I'm smiling so hard because I have a my daughter has a real one, uh like gestalt too, where her sounds I mean, some because she's getting to I don't know what stage because she goes back and forth, but she's getting to wherever she is that like some of her gestalt just sound like what people say, so they're sounding less scripty from TV or whatnot.
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But she just says, um what did she say?
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She says, um, wait, what is the one that your daughter said?
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Because I'm like, it wasn't exactly that.
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Um what what what if what if they were real?
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Oh, right, yeah, because my daughter will say, like, give me the real one, or I want the real one.
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And what that means is she wants the food she wants or the better version or the thing that they like buy it for me.
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Idea.
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But she'll use like that very particular language too, which is funny that sometimes it's like similar but different.
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But um, yeah, but yeah, my daughter also likes me to say cer cer certain things.
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It's like almost like a call and response, right?
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Yeah.
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But um Yeah, yeah, and I think the gestalt language processing thing is just interesting because right, like when they talk about just the language part of it, they're like, okay, there's gestalt language processing, and then there's analytic language processing, which is you know, learning one word at a time and adding on and adding on and then longer sentences, and then nowadays they're talking more about like, oh, there's dual language processors.
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And so for a while I was like back and forth.
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I was like, is she a dual language processor or is she like you know full on gestalt language processor?
00:15:55.200 --> 00:16:07.759
And I think part of that was because like we had some like other languages mixed in with her, even though she was in a bilingual take care, and so she would insert random like other languages, which made it more confusing and then yeah, that's also off topic.
00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:15.440
But it was about how like I was like, Oh, if I really had a like staged her language, which I don't like to do, um, because I don't think it's necessary.
00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:21.360
But like I was like, Oh, I think her English Gestalt development is like further along than her Mandarin one.
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:34.159
Cause she'll like, yeah, because I she never I and it's so weird because I also heard on a different pod where they were like some Geshalt language processors really like tonal languages, and Mandarin's a tonal language, but my daughter didn't interpret it that way.
00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:42.159
And I was like, oh, maybe it's because it's like we speak English at home and we're like kind of over the top, kind of just to make life a little bit more fun, because it's like gollymore.
00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:46.559
Whereas maybe some of her Mandarin models are just a little bit more like even.
00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:54.639
And so I feel like I mean she has just but she also watches largely, you know, English TV that's like very musical and all that jazz.
00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:58.960
And so yeah, yeah, I just think it's like a mixer, yeah, also different.
00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:00.159
That's all that's what I mean.
00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:06.720
That's making me think that maybe because my kids and I, I know we have some things going on.
00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:12.720
Like I just we just put it that way when we're talking or when we're interacting or whatever.
00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:16.799
So the more I'm learning about GLP, I'm like, hmm, I don't know.
00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:34.720
I'm still processing it, but um we were constantly, I mean, if there's maybe like a mix of the two, I know I feel like I relate to a mixture because I've been accused before and very terrible moments, but like uh but highly emotional moment.
00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:42.720
I remember I said something because I was trying to find clarity, and the other person goes, You sound like you're what was it?
00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:55.119
I don't know, it was not nice, even what they said, but it was just it was true, but it still was it felt invalidating where they said, like, you sound like you're in a movie, you sound like you're, you know, uh basically like a script.
00:17:55.440 --> 00:18:03.839
And um I couldn't argue with that, but I had no other thing to say or frame of reference or nothing to pull from.
00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:05.680
So I'm just like, okay.
00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:12.319
So that ended the conversation, um, which later ended in divorce, shocker.
00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:16.720
Don't ever call me a movie unless I want to be a movie.
00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:20.000
I don't know.
00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:20.640
I don't know.
00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:31.599
It it just feels, I mean, I guess it could go on to say that, you know, however we all talk or whatever we're saying, you know, try to give each other the benefit of the doubt that we're doing the best we can.
00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:38.319
Um, you know, I had another interaction recently um where it was a very intense, difficult conversation.
00:18:38.400 --> 00:19:07.680
And I'm wondering if maybe in some of the more intense um moments when we're higher stress, if we are GLP processors and there's something in between, if that's when we're relying even more on scripts, because I had to say, in order to resolve the conflict with this person, I had to say something very specific to them, which to maybe someone who like if someone just made me repeat them all the time, I would have maybe an issue with that, you know.
00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:17.200
Like I'd have a harder time, but it felt like a necessary thing they needed to hear from me in order to feel like it was resolved, like, or it was resolving, you know?
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:33.200
And um I don't know, right now there's so much like I I just could see that being viewed as a hostile, like, oh, that's just someone trying to be controlling or um I don't know, like it could be easily misunderstood, is I guess what I'm trying to get at.
00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:33.839
Yeah?
00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:35.440
Go for it, Iris.
00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:42.480
Well, I'll share like a personal thing, a memory of myself, and then I'll share the thing that I was learning about, but because it's new, it might not sound very articulate.
00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:46.480
But Amy, you can try me because you've read similar things and you can make it make sense.
00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:51.039
Okay, but anyway, I feel I I promise it's all related to somebody considering me.
00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:52.880
Um okay, so the memory of myself.
00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:57.519
Yeah, the whole fight thing, I think it all relates to, you know, gestal processing versus analytic processing.
00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:01.039
The more I'm like learning about this, but anyway, to talk about the memory first.
00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:07.440
Yeah, I think like former versions of me that fought, I I definitely remember telling spouse still part of the spouse, but whatever.
00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:08.559
We've gotten a lot better at that.
00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:15.119
But anyway, um, like early on, like we would have huge explosive fights, and it's like I think I'm the Gestal processor.
00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:17.200
I think he's more analytic, even though he's ADHD.
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:24.240
But um and at one point I had to give him a script because I was the one that needed him to say the things before I felt the closure.
00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:27.039
So I like whatever he was doing just was not working.
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:28.079
So I was like, okay.
00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:34.000
And I couldn't figure out what to even tell him to like scratch the itch, because sometimes it takes like hours to play out before I figure it out.
00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:37.839
And then like he says the thing, I'm good, and he's like, not good anymore.
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:42.640
Because like he exert all this emotional energy trying to like please me, essentially.
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:43.440
Well, but not really.
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:54.799
But um, but like I what I landed on was I was like, okay, I think I have this pattern where I feel good, where if I've got a thing, I'm not complaining about you, it's my thing, and I don't want it to turn into a thing where you feel attacked.
00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:58.960
But just tell me about your closest emotional memory that sounds kind of like mine.
00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:04.960
It doesn't even have to be the same, and make it short and quick, and then I'm glad so he's good at following script.
00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:06.319
So he just did that for a season.
00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:08.640
But I mean, since then we've done it's a little better.
00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:10.480
It reminds me of that.
00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:13.839
So there's that, and then um I do like Dr.
00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:16.160
Horic's like um she talks.
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:26.319
I don't mean I mean I just started listening to her podcast, which is so interesting because I I think a lot of it's like based off of her substack work, and this is me speculating, so I'm sorry if I'm wrong.
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:38.799
But I think um she found a really creative way to make the information more lively because sometimes I feel like very ungifted when I read things that fly over my head, and I'm like, there's that's really good in here, but like either my mental capacity is just not great today, or whatever, whatever.
00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:45.359
But um, but they she found a way where I think she has like two I don't know, like there's a script and there's two hosts.
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:50.960
I'm not sure if they're like digital hosts or whatnot, but they so the the style's a little unnerving in the beginning.
00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:58.559
But once I got onto like, oh, this is just a way to talk about the information in a way that's accessible now to people like me, because it's more conversational.
00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:14.319
But um I I feel like there's a lot of going back to that same topic of um when we see when we just when we break beyond like the focus on so much on the language part of it and the output of like this is a complete like cognitive processing style.
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:16.799
It's a energy reading.
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:28.079
And I feel like it explains so much whether it's like the conversational complex we have, because how she says it is that like I have she used so many really great analogies.
00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:40.480
I'm trying to remember some of them, but how like analytic processing can be a little bit like there's an expectation that's like a conveyor belt, like you need it to explain your point A to point B to point A to point B, like almost like a very late fashion or like a staircase.
00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:46.559
And then the whole like processing's more like circular and like more 3D versus 2D.
00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:53.200
There's a lot and I like the talk about how there's so much invisible labor going on in the world.
00:22:53.359 --> 00:23:13.440
I think I like magic and it feels a lot magical to me, but just like but just that like it explains a lot of why, like when we're in a conversation like this where we can just tang it or we tang it and all relate, and it's so deeply related, we don't have to explain ourselves versus whenever with someone else who's a more of an analytical language person or processor, they get they get really lost.
00:23:13.599 --> 00:23:22.960
Or they get they get exhausted by me, I get exhausted by them, and then like I'm trying to accommodate and make myself make more sense, and it often still doesn't make sense.
00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:23.599
Yes.
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:26.480
Um you're making sense to me though.
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:36.640
In fact, I'm like thinking about how listeners, I don't know, but ooh, I mean, I really think the limit of this if if Iris makes sense to you, you might be a good one.
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:37.759
That makes sense.
00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:39.680
You might be the other one.
00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:43.839
Well, I I was just thinking, like, too, and sorry I'm interrupting.
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:45.039
Um I'll go for it.
00:23:45.519 --> 00:24:02.880
My way, so I struggled for so long with understanding um how people like how to navigate conflict, how to navigate um, I don't know, just a lot of typical things that I think are common with autism and struggling with autism.
00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:09.519
And I ended up what worked for me is just stories.
00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:18.960
So like I watch a lot of TV, which sounds like, oh, big deal watching TV, you know, but actually I rely on TV, boom, boom.
00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:21.119
It's almost like to me, like stacking.
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:28.640
So you take a story, you stack it down, and you see a series of interactions, you see, you know, cause and effect in various ways.
00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:35.119
Okay, I can't contextualize that though until I have more and more and more stories on top of each other.
00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:38.799
And then it felt like I hit a point where I had enough stories.
00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:42.000
Now all of a sudden I can explain analytically.
00:24:43.599 --> 00:24:45.920
And so if I need to, I can do that.
00:24:46.079 --> 00:25:02.799
Um, but it took a long time, you know, for me to get there and to feel like I had kind of a a comprehensive understanding of how to deal with um conflict and and resolution and my needs and boundaries.
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:06.640
And so, and also that's an area of focus and of interest to me.
00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:08.480
So there's that part of it too.
00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:18.319
But but I just picture it that way that it's like it seems like I'm not doing anything, or it seems like I'm doing something that's not of value if I'm watching TV or reading tons of books.
00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:21.279
But that really was where I got all my information.
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:25.279
I couldn't have gotten that information from an instructional manual.
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:29.759
I needed to get it from real stories, and that's just how I am.
00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:31.039
Like I need stories.
00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:33.119
So do you think that's part of it?
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:35.200
You're nodding and smiling.
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:38.799
I'll let Amy go first because I've been talking a lot, but I totally resonate with that.
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:39.759
I'm gonna hold my thoughts.
00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:41.680
But I'll let you be.
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:42.400
We'll let you be.
00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:42.799
Go ahead.
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:44.160
Okay, Amy, go ahead.
00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:47.279
Yeah, I do think um, I do think that could be part of it.
00:25:47.359 --> 00:26:02.720
Like when I think about a conflict I had recently um with someone, I'm not even gonna say who, but um, you know, I I felt like um I had to we were just on such different pages there.
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:13.039
And it was like yeah, I had to have this um uh I'm really bad with words right now.
00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:15.359
Sorry, this is a terrible time to be bad at words.
00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:17.359
It's on top, it's on point.
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:18.079
Yeah.
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:24.160
I it was it was like I really needed to hear something specific, right?
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:27.839
And I didn't realize it until like much later.
00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:29.920
I think you were kind of saying the same thing earlier, Iris.
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:58.160
It's a very and but I think this could be so revolutionary for people who are working with PDA kids specifically, because if if I'm taking like listening to all of us right now and thinking of things that I've been thinking about, if we were to take a lot of these relationship, you know, things our lived experience as adults, and we apply it to our children too, think of how much more supported they would feel because we do put a lot of energy into our, you know, our partnerships and our close friendships.
00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:00.319
So we do study our communication a lot.
00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:08.559
I feel like we don't really do that as much with children who are struggling and it comes out as uh what we see as behavior, right?
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:21.200
Um, I think a lot of times if we could just uh pivot that and just think, you know, what are they what is it they're actually trying to communicate here and how can we support that?
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:30.000
Because I think if we um just taking like what we're talking about here in our personal lives, um how much of a difference that makes?
00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:35.920
Like we were talking about you like your friend, like whoever you were a conflict with, they you know, they needed to have that resolution.
00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:44.319
Um it needed to follow the script, or else it just was not going to, it was not going to, they're not gonna be able to move past it, right?
00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:44.960
Yes.
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:48.960
Um, and I feel that's I see that so much in my own children too.
00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:59.119
Um and um I I don't know, I just I think that this really could be so useful, like in schools, for instance.
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:09.759
If we we have children who are gestalt processors and we don't focus on that because we don't, it's not, you know, we're not talking about it as much as we should be.
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:18.240
If we then relate to the child who's struggling and kind of dig in deeper as far as like, okay, well, what what are the different scripts?
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:20.240
Where are these gestalts coming from?
00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:24.240
Then we can relate to them better and satisfy that need that they have.
00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:26.160
They're just left dangling, right?
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:34.559
Yeah um, so yeah, I just think it's I think it's really interesting when we think about how this applies to ourselves.
00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:46.079
Um, and if we can just take that and generalize it and apply that to um children too, and not just, you know, look at like we're looking at like the emotional impact on ourselves and our partners and our friends.
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:48.000
We don't do that as much with children.
00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:51.200
It's we're all thinking about how is this affecting me?
00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:58.799
Yeah, you know, like how how is this affecting me as a caregiver, as a teacher, but not what is how is this affecting these children?
00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:04.240
So I think we could we could learn from all of these experiences, kind of compile them and talk about them more.
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:06.079
And it really would help us support our kids.
00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:07.599
Yes, yeah, please go for it.
00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:08.480
Jump in, Hyrus.
00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:10.319
And my funny 3D fidget.
00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:11.039
So it's a little noisy.
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:12.079
Ooh, it's okay.
00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:13.200
It's a dinosaur.
00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:14.880
It's cute, it's colorful.
00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:18.160
It's more versatile than like a spike, just one spiky thing.
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:18.880
Okay, anyway.
00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:21.599
Uh yeah, Brooke, I really like I like what you booked here.
00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:23.519
But Brooke, um, oh man.
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:28.319
This is where I'm like, I will I started saying to myself, my working memory is not my finest asset.
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:31.119
My emotional memory is fabulous to deploy.
00:29:31.359 --> 00:29:32.000
Yeah, same here.
00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:36.240
Factually, uh little sketchy.
00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:37.839
Yeah, very yeah, quite sketchy.
00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:38.880
But anyway, okay, let's see.
00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:44.319
So, Brooke, what you said really landed with me because I'm like, I'm like, oh, I got a familiar feeling.
00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:46.160
Okay, can you remind me what you just said?
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:50.640
Stacking, I was talking about stacking stories.
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:51.920
Oh, okay, okay, I remember.
00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:54.960
But it was go ahead.
00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:55.599
Yeah, thank you.
00:29:55.680 --> 00:30:01.599
No, um, I feel like it's such a good example of the whole, you know, gestalt cognitive processing thing.
00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:02.000
Yeah.
00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:07.039
Like what your example, because I I realized when you were saying, I'm like, oh, I do that too.
00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:20.160
Meaning, like, um, um, so I'm trying to work out some like intergenerational trauma, child of immigrant stuff, but I I can't do one-on-one therapy, it's just too high demand for like tried.
00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:20.880
I can't do one thing.
00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:21.680
It's a whole other topic.
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:23.200
I know exactly.
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:24.079
We're all right.
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:26.559
I can do like groups where we share stories, which is fine.
00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:29.759
It's like I like meeting you in person, brook, and like you just like what's up?
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:30.559
I'm like, this works.
00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:39.599
But anyway, but yeah, but um, but I love movies too, and so like what I did without like I kind of knew I was doing it intentionally and I kind of didn't.
00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:46.079
I was just like, okay, I'm gonna watch all these like poems made by like in Mandarin about like all sorts of things.
00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:50.960
Some of them are very dark, like at the Nan King Massacre or whatever, but it was like showing humanity in really beautiful ways.
00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:54.880
And then like I've been reading a lot of like littered kid lit, or like, you know, don't lit.
00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:59.200
That's like talk people or queer people or like narrative origin crap, whatever.
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:02.880
But it's it's helping me make sense of stuff.
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:05.119
And like, yeah, that's so welcome.
00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:09.839
And I feel like it all plays into this digital whatever processing thing.
00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:15.279
So I'm gonna remove the language part of it because I feel like with that language in there, it make it doesn't crack it wide open enough.
00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:16.880
And I do what you're saying, Amy.
00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:19.519
I feel like schools need to not just focus on the language.
00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:25.359
I think it's wonderful that they're getting there because like you can't just ignore this entire way of processing.
00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:30.319
But I think if they were to focus on just like, okay, there's analytic processors, there's gistel processors.
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:36.000
Oh, and I like what Stephanie Bourne, she's like beamy speech online, she like has this line that she used in this presentation recently that I really like.
00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:41.440
She said something to the extent of like, we're not wrong, we're just outnumbered, and I think that's so real.
00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:46.240
Oh, it's very similar to I think the Dr.
00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:50.960
Horic sentiment, too, of like there's this whole other way of processing.
00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:56.559
It's not inferior, it is so embodied, it's so full, it's like magical and beautiful and so rich.
00:31:56.640 --> 00:32:18.160
But these processors are having to like almost like expend a lot of energy and a lot of like sometimes extra processing time and all sorts of things to try to like turn their way of seeing the world and experiencing it into something that other people can understand because it's almost like two widely different languages, yeah, even too flat of a way to that.
00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:24.160
Yeah, but yeah, conflict resolution for analytical processors or cognitive whatever guess trying to do.
00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:29.920
Yes, yes, I was saying that so succinctly because I totally lost what I was talking about earlier.
00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:30.640
That was great.
00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:34.720
No, that did PTA like media USA.
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:37.839
It was the stacking stories thing.
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:50.079
Okay, so that was what I was I was you so adding on to that, like, yeah, I find that now as I'm I'm in a new relationship and we have, you know, we're in trying to like get to know each other, right?
00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:54.400
Like, you know, and that is something that has been so helpful, actually.
00:32:54.559 --> 00:33:02.640
Is like, well, this is kind of this is really bothering me, and I don't know how to explain why, except to just tell you this other story.
00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:04.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:06.079
Like from my childhood, whatever.
00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:22.079
Um, actually, what it was specifically about this, and I don't think he would mind me telling saying this, is it was about um well, actually, I don't remember the topic, but the way I was able to resolve it was telling the story about my dad and one of his former wives, and like a conflict that they had had, and how my mom had like come in and got involved somehow.
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:24.880
And I don't know, some but I don't know.
00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:28.960
Like, well, it was it, it was there was, you know, it was about ironing sheets.
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:32.559
And um I don't iron anything, by the way.
00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:40.559
But um, but that helped so much because then it was like you can you can take a whole example, right?
00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:51.680
It's a it's and uh you're generalizing and applying it and giving somebody a way to understand, like this, yeah, you're I'm not able to express exactly why this bothers me.
00:33:51.759 --> 00:34:04.880
But when I take this story, it resonates so much with me on this situation, and then I can tell that story, and then he was like, Oh, yeah, no, I totally get what you're saying now because it applies to what he was trying to say too.
00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:08.719
So yeah, sorry, I just had to say that like not clear.
00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:12.000
It was right there, and then I was like, context, yeah, it was a total.
00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:16.000
Yes, yes, yes, yes, context, context, context of what it's all about.
00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:22.880
It's everything like context determines so much of the minutiae of all of our behavior.
00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:29.039
And if you don't have enough examples of context, then you don't know how to interpret things.
00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:32.480
Like I remember the first series, I mean you can tell you're eager, Iris.
00:34:32.559 --> 00:34:33.840
I just I'll get this story out.
00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:34.559
No, no, no, no, no.
00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:34.960
I want to hear it.
00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:36.159
Oh, you're not eager, you're just waiting for it.
00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:38.239
Waiting pose.
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:38.880
Okay.
00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:40.159
I like stories.
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:43.679
I don't need a sorry, my eyes, I'm I'm amused by myself right now.
00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:45.840
Look at my huge forehead and my corn sword.
00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:46.719
Okay.
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:48.719
All right, all right.
00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:49.920
I'm pulling it together.
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:52.960
So, so oh no, wait, I lost it.
00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:53.599
No.
00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:54.880
Context.
00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:56.239
We sound drunk, but we're not.
00:34:56.400 --> 00:34:56.719
Okay.
00:34:57.440 --> 00:34:59.199
Context being everything.
00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:01.679
Um, oh, my first serious relationship.
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:05.679
And why this is why conflict specifically has been such a topic of interest for me.
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:12.239
One, I think it is resonating with PDA people to try to like figure out the human behavior and we kind of fixate on it.
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:19.360
Um but I did not have great examples growing up of like resolving conflicts in a way that felt safe to me.
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:21.280
I just didn't see it happening anywhere.
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:24.000
I didn't see it happening in my parents' marriage.
00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:27.840
They loved each other, but did they resolve things in a way that felt safe to me?
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:28.480
No.
00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:43.599
Um and then around me with other people, all I saw was a lot of power flexes, like, oh, you're just supposed to either do the thing or you're in trouble, or like I just didn't see resolutions happening that felt like they fit me or made sense to me.
00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:47.280
So the I took me a long time to get into a serious relationship.
00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:49.920
The first time was at 18.
00:35:50.320 --> 00:36:01.840
And I remember as soon as we ran into some kind of problem, I had nothing like a blank, just a completely blind terror, uh no nothing to pull from to even make a choice.
00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:13.199
And I I think that I'll get this thought out before I lose it too, is that that's what it feels like to me is it's not copying something directly and lacking individual expression.
00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:24.159
It's that I need these examples in order to pull from as part of my agency, like or as part of me so that I know what to even do in a situation.
00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:25.920
Like I need examples.
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:31.280
Like some, please, for the love of God, give me some examples somewhere so that I know what suits.
00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:33.920
Because I want to express myself.
00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:35.840
I want to be able to do that.
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:45.199
Um, but sometimes I don't even know myself until I'm resonating with something I'm seeing or hearing or or ha seeing someone else go through.
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:49.679
I need that in order to even understand who I am a little bit more.
00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:50.639
There we go.
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:52.400
Stepping off my socks.
00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:52.880
Thank you.
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:53.840
Umbrella.
00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:55.119
See, I did this.
00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:56.320
I was like, I had a feeling.
00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:58.000
We're gonna learn shit today.
00:36:58.159 --> 00:36:58.320
Yeah.
00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:02.000
We are, and we're all just fellow processors, we've all been identified.
00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:05.360
You're identifying, actively learning it.
00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:09.039
That kind of brings me to a question, Eris.
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:12.639
Um, what did you like when what made you think?
00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:18.320
Um, because you said that you were realizing that you are a ghostal processor yourself.
00:37:18.480 --> 00:37:33.199
Um, do you have a memory or um like from your childhood or like that your family told you about of when you were learning language, of how you first expressed um words?
00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:40.960
And there's a moment where you're gonna be like, oh, she gave the not wrong answer, but like the way different answer from what you would expect.
00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:41.920
Okay, here I go.
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:45.199
That there's always a part where I'm like, here I go.
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:51.119
Okay, um, so no, because my parents have also in I've inherited their working memory stuff.
00:37:51.199 --> 00:37:53.280
And so they don't remember anything.
00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:55.840
And I also don't remember.
00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:58.559
I know I have emotional memory, but I don't remember what I said.
00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:02.800
I remember like when I almost passed out because the other kid passed out, you know, like stuff like that.
00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:07.920
Like I have a lot of like childhood like dots, but you know, and it's like it's general feelings, right?
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:18.239
But but I'll I do like this question because I I want to answer, and then you can tell me if it makes any sense because I w I want to share, like you said, like it doesn't make sense, Brooke, until you kind of like hear from someone else.
00:38:18.639 --> 00:38:25.199
And all the all the stories, all the examples, I resonate with that so much, even like me figuring out how to be an SLP, I had to watch a bunch of stuff.
00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:31.920
And I kept looking for things to watch because I was like, I need to watch it, not to copy it, but yeah, then it just like mixes up within myself, yeah.
00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:33.199
It comes out the way I needed to.
00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:33.360
Yeah.
00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:36.320
Or even how to be a neurodivergent adult and like a mask-ish.
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:37.440
Yeah.
00:38:37.679 --> 00:38:38.960
Anyway, okay, I'm well done.
00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:44.159
But okay, to come back, Amy, to your question.
00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:50.079
Okay, so this is a funny response that I haven't told anyone yet because it just came upon me like this morning.
00:38:51.360 --> 00:39:00.320
Okay, but um all right, let me see if I can put it to words, which I think we're all like pausing and trying to put it to words because we're all processors trying to put it into words.
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:00.800
Right.
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:01.119
Right.
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:02.559
So like that's the challenge.
00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:04.960
Anyway, we're putting energy and experience into words.
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:06.400
And it's like, how in the world do you do that?
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:06.800
I don't know.
00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:08.239
Okay, okay, let's try.
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:09.280
Let's try, let's try.
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:09.679
Okay.
00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:11.599
So um, this is roundabout.
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:14.960
I have had some little like hangups.
00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:16.239
I don't know if that's the right way to put it.
00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:18.800
I've been trying to figure myself out in a few different domains.
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:21.440
One of them is um this writing thing.
00:39:21.519 --> 00:39:22.480
I'm trying to write kid lit.
00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:23.679
Amy, you know about this.
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:25.599
Uh specifically middle grade.
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:31.679
Anyway, um, I could oh, and I started recently working with this freelance kid lit editor.
00:39:31.760 --> 00:39:32.719
That's fabulous.
00:39:32.800 --> 00:39:34.800
And like she can handle like my chaos.
00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:37.679
But it's not chaos, it's getting stuff.
00:39:38.239 --> 00:39:41.679
But it's like I know the themes I want to put into this book.
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:50.639
I know what the characters feel like, I know all the conversations they've had and all the details between them, but I can't tell you how they get from point A to point B to point C to point D.
00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:54.480
And I like can't do this like linear like plot thing, but she's helping me.
00:39:54.800 --> 00:40:05.199
It's just like this, my analytic like kid lit coach guide is helping me to like well, not be more neurotypical, but like how to actually get the thing on the street.
00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:08.239
Yeah, but I feel really helped.
00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:15.920
So maybe this is an analogy for like in other situations, whether it's work or school, we can still be political people.
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:17.280
No, I love that.
00:40:17.440 --> 00:40:19.039
I actually think that's awesome.
00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:26.000
I don't I like it when like I have an experience as like the receiver in a different industry where I'm like, oh, this applies to this other thing too.
00:40:26.079 --> 00:40:26.559
But how do you?
00:40:27.280 --> 00:40:30.000
I need more examples, but you know, anyway, this is one difference.
00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:32.480
Um there was another hang-up I was trying to have.
00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:37.760
Not try to have there was something else I couldn't figure out about myself that I can't remember at this very moment.
00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:38.239
Try to have.
00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:40.800
Actually, that's what somebody else talk about it.
00:40:41.199 --> 00:40:42.800
Somebody else talk about something and it wasn't.
00:40:42.960 --> 00:40:43.599
Well, okay, okay, okay.
00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:46.159
You were talking about Kidlet.
00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:47.440
I have to show this.
00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:48.400
What is that?
00:40:48.559 --> 00:40:55.199
Tell us, tell us what we did in school a couple weeks ago with my kids because they were having one of those like really PDA days.
00:40:55.280 --> 00:40:56.639
Like nobody wanted to do anything.
00:40:56.880 --> 00:41:04.320
So I managed to like see what yeah, what is what is everyone interested in right now?
00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:11.840
You know, yeah, how can I tie all this together and get the chaos kind of so I was I was trying to get them to read a book.
00:41:12.159 --> 00:41:15.679
It was about honey bees, and that was not working.
00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:17.280
So then I was like, okay, you know what?
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:22.159
We we haven't done a lot of um literary like study yet.
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:26.400
So I started saying, okay, let's let's write a book.
00:41:26.559 --> 00:41:28.559
Okay, let's write a whole story.
00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:30.559
Um, what is it gonna be about?
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:34.960
And then Alice, because we've been looking doing the bees, the most accessible thing to her was like a bee.
00:41:35.119 --> 00:41:36.000
Okay, fine, a bee.
00:41:36.079 --> 00:41:36.719
So what kind of bee?
00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:38.559
It's it's a crazy bee.
00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:50.000
So it does look like she's a wonderful little artist, but it whole it turns into this whole thing of like, you know, someone's like, okay, well, what are the characters?
00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:52.079
And is he no he's apparently a boy bee.
00:41:52.159 --> 00:42:03.840
So we started doing like all these different notes of like, you know, we're studying the plot and the setting, the crazy bee goes to a disco party, and they and they all dance crazy inside the hive.
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:06.719
Like, this is you know, kind of awesome, all these different things.
00:42:06.800 --> 00:42:15.679
And then so my son is really into roller coasters, so he decides that the prize for the crazy bee contest, disco dancing contest that the bees are all having.
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:25.679
The prize is gonna be trip to the amusement park, um, which is all it's made from roller coasters made out of honey comb and stuff.
00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:27.519
Sounds like a dream.
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:28.559
I know.
00:42:28.719 --> 00:42:30.239
Take that TV.
00:42:32.559 --> 00:42:41.920
That was one of those times too where it was like I was because I had to ask them, I had to ask them stuff to get them to interact and you know be part of this whole creative process.
00:42:42.159 --> 00:42:50.159
But just the things that they will throw out as part of how they are processing, you know, the things that are they're really interested in.
00:42:50.320 --> 00:42:52.159
Um, I just found it really fascinating.
00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:58.400
So your whole like, you know, writing kids that I'm like, well, this is my attribution to kids like but that's cool.
00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:00.559
I think that's really, really fascinating.
00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:09.519
Um, but the reason why I was asking about like if you remember how you acquired or if you had any stories about it with me.
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:17.440
Um I first learned about GLP with my daughter, um, realizing because she didn't have a first word.
00:43:18.079 --> 00:43:19.840
She had a first phrase.
00:43:20.079 --> 00:43:30.800
Um, it was when we used to have a dog, and we were taking, she was only 14 months old, and we were taking the dog out for a walk, and she pointed at the dog and said, Let's go.
00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:35.440
That was the first she had not said a word at all.
00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:39.280
You know, lots of no sounds, um, but never an action.
00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:43.920
I was like, no, he fell out.
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:48.639
But that's relatable example.
00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:59.760
But what's funny is, and I remember talking because my mother was still alive at that point, and I said, wait a second, you were you weren't kidding, because she had always said that I didn't.
00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:03.360
Have a first word, I had just started speaking sentences.
00:44:03.519 --> 00:44:11.840
And I thought she was completely out of her mind, you know, because she always, you know, she always found the hyperbole, you know, so she was just going being being mom.
00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:13.840
But no, that must have been what happened.
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:16.079
I just started like just like what I saw with Alice.
00:44:16.159 --> 00:44:33.679
Because and it's interesting because I think both of my boys are also GLPs, but um, it can't it started so differently, like they they had more um these maybe they are dual processors because they started more like an analytical analytical process processor with like one word at a time.
00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:38.159
Um, but I think it quickly moved into more like chunks for them too.
00:44:38.239 --> 00:44:49.920
But Alice was definitely like it was all scripts, and um it was just so fascinating to watch her when sorry, to talk over you.
00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:54.400
Uh my kids, I'm just like uh they will talking to them.
00:44:54.480 --> 00:45:00.559
You do have to have a very laid-back approach, I feel like, when you're interacting with the GLP, you know.
00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:08.800
And when I say GLP, my brain, I'm thinking about those stupid diabetic shots that are happening in the booth.
00:45:09.119 --> 00:45:10.480
I think about that every time.
00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:12.880
Like it just happens to be the same letters.
00:45:13.039 --> 00:45:16.159
Oh okay, yeah, intrusive thought.
00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:25.440
Um, so so the I'll be you have to be kind of relaxed to even get to the point.
00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:30.079
And I say that somewhat hostily, because the journey can be part of the point as well.
00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:46.559
So if my kids walk up and they're spewing a bunch of random things that they've been hearing on, you know, whatever it is they're interested in right now, which is usually something that I'm like, okay, like, you know, you do you, fella.
00:45:46.719 --> 00:46:00.880
Um, but it you hear these random things and you could just get like impatient if you could get easily impatient if you're looking for the result right up front or the destination quick.
00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:04.239
Like, we're just not quick destination people, maybe.
00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:09.039
It's really there's so much journey that's gotta happen here to get to something.
00:46:09.199 --> 00:46:11.119
So anyway, that was my thought.
00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:13.119
That's a great point.
00:46:13.360 --> 00:46:14.480
Because that happens to me too.
00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:22.000
And then now that you've said it like that, I'm like, oh, they are trying to communicate something like very deep, very real, very circular, very like all the dimensionals.
00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:26.480
And if I yeah, if I don't listen that carefully, I just feel like, uh, okay, okay.
00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:29.360
And my kid will somebody be like, Why are you why are you acting so bored?
00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:31.840
Like, I just response from the thing I'm trying to get.
00:46:33.039 --> 00:46:44.719
I do make fun a little bit, and maybe I need to think about that as I'm I might be kind of teasing sometimes because he's sharing something from a YouTuber that I have no respect for or very little.
00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:50.559
Some of the people they watch are cool, um, but some of them, or I guess let me put it this way.
00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:57.840
So recently he's been on a thing where he's listening to a lot of like like critical takes of things.
00:46:58.159 --> 00:47:00.320
And that's a little bit triggering for me.
00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:04.880
I I don't like to listen to things that are overly critical all the time.
00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:07.920
That's why I don't watch the news very often, if ever.
00:47:08.239 --> 00:47:22.000
Um, so I have to kind of stop myself a little bit from thinking about it through my experience or my lens and being like, you know what, I'm sure right now he's just developing that skill.
00:47:22.159 --> 00:47:25.360
Like he is listening to these people criticize.
00:47:25.519 --> 00:47:33.840
And yes, it's a lot all up front, and to the point where it's you know heavy for me to hear it, but he that's how he's developing the skill.
00:47:33.920 --> 00:47:36.400
He's diving in, it's completely encompassing him.
00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:39.440
And I got a child knocking on my door, so I'll be right back.
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:42.079
Yeah, someone else talk for a minute.
00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:43.360
Hold on, I'll pop.
00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:47.679
Well, what we have on our um list of things to talk about.
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:49.760
If I started pulling up the list, I was like, should we?
00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:54.400
Well, we were talking lists are very analytical.
00:47:54.559 --> 00:48:11.519
I feel like this like sometimes parallels that whole like executive functioning world that sometimes I talk about too, where I'm like, I don't like talking about the timer, the checklist, like all that stuff, but I like talking about the people like Sonny J wise that goes like, you know, there's no moral higher ground to be one executive functioning way.
00:48:11.599 --> 00:48:14.079
But I feel like that there's a parallel here to this too.
00:48:14.239 --> 00:48:21.679
Like, yeah, there's no moral higher ground to be analytic versus like no, it's just and we just need to acknowledge that both exist.
00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:24.159
It's like strangely, like the upside down.
00:48:24.320 --> 00:48:27.360
Well, it's not not an upside down situation, but you know, yeah.
00:48:28.400 --> 00:48:32.639
Well, I do wonder how many um issues we have with people.
00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:37.519
It just comes down to being different communicators, you know, and just how we process language.
00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:50.400
Um and especially when it comes to that, you know, what we were talking about earlier, it's like there's there's something that it's almost like a ritual that needs to be completed in the brain, and it has to be done through communication.
00:48:50.800 --> 00:49:00.719
One of the things that my daughter does too that I find fascinating, it has nothing to do with language, but um well, is if she's missing something, she can't find something.
00:49:01.039 --> 00:49:09.360
The only way she can like process her grief about it, and it in a way that will not lead to you know further meltdown, right?
00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:10.960
Is she's gotta go and draw it.
00:49:11.119 --> 00:49:16.719
So say she's like she's she lost her purple socks, her favorite purple socks at the trampoline park.
00:49:16.960 --> 00:49:18.639
So, and she could not get over this.
00:49:18.800 --> 00:49:25.280
I mean, it was like a two days of just crying, screaming, upset, talking about these purple socks.
00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:33.360
She finally went and just drew this the purple socks and put it up with on a like she made a wanted poster.
00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:35.599
Oh, that's adorable.
00:49:39.440 --> 00:49:43.360
And then she was able to do that and she put it up on the door, on the front door, you know.
00:49:43.519 --> 00:49:45.920
So like I lost my socks, you know.
00:49:48.159 --> 00:49:49.760
Um but I love that.
00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:58.079
So that allows her, it's like it completes something, some sort of circuit that is, you know, needs a resolution, and that helps her.
00:49:58.239 --> 00:50:02.639
It's almost like the visual representation just helps supply what she's missing.
00:50:03.519 --> 00:50:07.760
Um so yeah, it's just I find that really fascinating too, as part of it.
00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:14.559
Like it's it really is, I think it's it's something that just we have we are ritualistic people, right?
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:22.639
I mean, it's kind of one of the things about this, and we really are are regulated by things being predictable and having things, you know, and stuff.
00:50:22.719 --> 00:50:24.639
So rituals really factor into that.
00:50:24.719 --> 00:50:32.079
And so yeah, it's like something that I think is in our brain is just incomplete, and we have to complete it or else we can move on.
00:50:32.239 --> 00:50:33.360
That's one of the things, too.
00:50:33.440 --> 00:50:43.280
I will waste so much energy trying to parent my child when I am not realizing she just needs to complete this sequence or else she can't move on.
00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:53.199
Like I keep interrupting it and not realizing I am aggravating it so much more because I'm on a different, I'm trying to complete a different sequence that has nothing to do with this.
00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:58.639
Completely ignoring the fact that no, this has got to be completed or else we are not gonna go anywhere.
00:50:58.880 --> 00:50:59.199
Yeah.
00:50:59.920 --> 00:51:01.599
She's she's so wise.
00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:04.320
She is so wise, they are wise.
00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:07.360
Yeah.
00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:12.800
My my oldest, so we just we had to put a cat, one of our cats, down.
00:51:13.039 --> 00:51:26.159
And this is not the only recent thing that's been like, you know, I have a highly emotional, my oldest is, I mean, they're all emotional, but I should say, like, my oldest is especially sentimental.
00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:35.760
And so finding a way for him to resolve when things are gone or lost or changed has been a bit of a journey.
00:51:35.920 --> 00:51:39.199
But one of the ways that has worked for him is like taking photos.
00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:44.880
So if you say Alice draws the picture, uh, my oldest will take wants me to take a picture.
00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:54.400
So when we were at, I was at the vet and um I video called or whoever wanted to talk, you know, I kind of leave that open-ended for my kids.
00:51:54.480 --> 00:52:01.440
And my oldest wanted to see, you know, on the video um the cat sitting there before we did anything.
00:52:01.519 --> 00:52:03.599
And he says, I need to screenshot this.
00:52:03.679 --> 00:52:06.079
And so, you know, he took a picture.
00:52:06.239 --> 00:52:22.320
And I mean, that that makes maybe more sense in the sense of like, yes, of course, people want a photo of a loved one or a loved one, you know, but he has even used that for um there was this metal, um, I don't even know how to describe what it was.
00:52:22.400 --> 00:52:36.159
It was just like this metal exercise thing that was sitting in our backyard forever and it was rusted, needed to go to the garbage, and he got sentimental about that, about me putting it in the trash, and he asked me to take a photo of it.
00:52:36.400 --> 00:52:40.159
So that might seem sort of bizarre to people.
00:52:40.239 --> 00:52:42.960
Like, why do you want or I don't know?
00:52:43.039 --> 00:52:56.880
I'm thinking maybe it would give people ideas that if you notice that your child is uh getting stuck, you know, maybe this could be a way to help them to resolve it is find a way for them to create this.
00:52:57.039 --> 00:53:03.519
Like, I don't know if memento is the right word, but it's almost like an anchor point for the thing or something.
00:53:04.559 --> 00:53:04.960
Yeah.
00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:06.960
Gives them something to hold on to.
00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:14.880
So it feels like it still exists in a way that they value and it's not just gone suddenly, you know.
00:53:15.119 --> 00:53:17.119
So thanks to say, thanks is there.
00:53:17.280 --> 00:53:19.280
Yeah, because I like what you're all saying.
00:53:19.360 --> 00:53:22.400
I'm like, this is so much better than just talking to myself in my own brain.
00:53:22.639 --> 00:53:25.280
Like talking to the podcast people in my own compliments.
00:53:26.880 --> 00:53:27.519
Wait, anyway.
00:53:27.599 --> 00:53:28.000
Oh, thanks.
00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:28.880
I'm glad you liked it.
00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:30.159
I never know.
00:53:30.320 --> 00:53:33.119
Um, oh gosh, oh my god, see, I might have lost it.
00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:35.920
But um, yeah, your child is so wise too.
00:53:36.079 --> 00:53:44.719
But also, it made me think of something funny because I'm in this other group chatty thing where people were talking about how like when people change their hair, it can be very distressing and griefy for the child.
00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:47.519
But I really want to fix my hair ashy gray because I want to look older.
00:53:47.679 --> 00:53:48.480
This is a whole other thing.
00:53:48.559 --> 00:53:51.119
But I'm like, maybe I should just capture what I look like right now.
00:53:53.199 --> 00:53:54.800
But anyway, whatever, whatever.
00:53:54.960 --> 00:53:59.599
But but but um your your term anchor point, I I remember hearing like Dr.
00:53:59.679 --> 00:54:01.599
Horwicks also talk about that too.
00:54:01.760 --> 00:54:07.440
I know this is like a one-person like fan club right now because I'm so excited with this new information for your fan club too.
00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:12.960
So but you're you're using all these cool terms that that person uses too, and it's like that's really cool.
00:54:14.480 --> 00:54:18.400
But that's how you like transverse the like whatever waves of the universe.
00:54:18.639 --> 00:54:21.280
Oh yeah, I'm on the wavelength, you know.
00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:22.639
Brookie knows so much.
00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:25.119
He kept saying, like, I don't even want to sit here.
00:54:25.360 --> 00:54:28.960
Yes, you just didn't thought I was gonna sit here, and then I'm like, wait a second.
00:54:29.360 --> 00:54:31.360
No sitting here, no sitting here.
00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:33.599
Uh what was the other thought?
00:54:33.840 --> 00:54:34.960
Oh, there's a butterfly.
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:36.000
I don't know anymore.
00:54:38.079 --> 00:54:39.519
Somebody at the shit again.
00:54:39.840 --> 00:54:49.440
My terrible thing, I'll forget things like and then I have to literally like talk myself to uh say, like, I mean, it's so cliche, but it actually works for me.
00:54:49.679 --> 00:54:52.639
If it's meant to be, I'll remember it again.
00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:56.719
And like, actually, though, it does work for me and I will or not.
00:54:56.800 --> 00:54:58.400
And then I'm like, whatever, fine, gone.
00:54:58.480 --> 00:54:59.119
You're in the past.
00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:01.920
Get out of my life memory or thing that I couldn't remember.
00:55:02.079 --> 00:55:03.760
Anyway, Amy, did you want to say something relevant?
00:55:03.920 --> 00:55:07.440
I remember, I remember, I remember, I remember can I say it's so fast?
00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:09.920
Because it won't, it might not be meant to be later.
00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:11.519
Yes, yes.
00:55:11.840 --> 00:55:14.320
It's relating to something Amy said a while ago.
00:55:15.920 --> 00:55:16.880
Way a while ago.
00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:20.800
But it ties into all the threads, and you too will get it.
00:55:20.960 --> 00:55:24.800
Okay, so you know when you were talking about classroom stuff, it made me think about another Dr.
00:55:24.960 --> 00:55:25.920
Horrix thing.
00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:26.079
Yeah.
00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:30.559
Where um she was, she or her whatever hosts that talk about her substack.
00:55:30.639 --> 00:55:44.400
They were talking about how like in schools or in educational settings, we'll just go with educational settings since so many PDAs are in like not schools, but um how schools are so overly focused on like the emotion wheel or the point of the color or whatever, right?
00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:56.480
And so the the the the whatever the thesis was how like gestal processors don't process it as like a single spot speckle of like this is my finding point of my emotion.
00:55:56.559 --> 00:56:06.320
Um but they get socialized into okay, I am distressed by all the sensory overwhelm and all the energetic ways I'm reading and like then everything, the gestal of the experience.
00:56:06.639 --> 00:56:08.719
And there's no way I can convey this to you.
00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:16.880
But I've been socialized to understand that like this analytic processing kind of framework is sort of just centered in the sort of environment educational environment.
00:56:16.960 --> 00:56:19.840
So if I do point to the angry one, you'll give me a break.
00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:48.639
But it's just so interesting, because then there was also a different line, I think in a different podcast episode to the same person about how like sometimes we get used, they describe it a different way, so I'm adding some words, but how sometimes like if we just think autism in a very flat way, like it can be seen as like collection of behaviors where you know diagnoses of whatever things that lead up to a diagnosis or whatever, which is useful.
00:56:48.880 --> 00:56:56.239
But that if you can really, really truly understand this whole Kitchdalt processing thing, it's it's so much richer.
00:56:56.320 --> 00:56:58.079
And then you also Yeah.
00:56:58.239 --> 00:57:00.559
Oh, there was this other fascinating thing about power dice.
00:57:01.760 --> 00:57:03.440
Throw them all out there is just anyway.
00:57:03.519 --> 00:57:04.880
There's there's a lot, I'll stop.
00:57:05.360 --> 00:57:11.519
No, it's just very cute to listen to the original source because I can't explain it quite as well.
00:57:11.840 --> 00:57:15.679
Yeah, well, you're doing a better job than you think you are, so thank you.
00:57:15.920 --> 00:57:16.480
I'll say that.
00:57:16.639 --> 00:57:48.000
But I think it is kind of traumatic too, taking this way of processing, and then you're walking around and you see everybody doing it this other way, and you're like, uh, how do I cram this into this, you know, and then it turns and you try, and then like parts are bulging out of like because they're coming out of places that they're not supposed to, and everybody's like, uh, or a lot of people are like, uh, I don't know what the what what's going on with you.
00:57:48.159 --> 00:57:54.400
You're confusing, and then you get yeah, pushed away, or they're no longer impressed.
00:57:55.039 --> 00:57:55.840
You go away.
00:57:56.400 --> 00:57:59.440
You were cool, now you're just confusing and scary.
00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:11.039
Anyway, well, I think it's it's interesting how it like when I think about how Gestalt processing, like you were talking about Iris, how it's really more of a cognitive like processing registry.
00:58:12.320 --> 00:58:27.039
And one of the first things that made me like start thinking in those terms too is that um, because I'm a musician and when I was learning um music, I don't remember learning music, it was just always like there.
00:58:27.599 --> 00:58:39.360
Um but my again from my mother's stories, um like I um would climb up on the bench because she was a piano teacher.
00:58:39.599 --> 00:58:48.880
So she thought that her student had left, and I climbed up on the bench and was repeating like the same melody that her last guy had had played.
00:58:49.119 --> 00:58:54.400
Um, and so that I think about that is like that's the chunk, you know, that I was like repeating.
00:58:54.639 --> 00:59:01.360
Um and I see it so much in in music now too, especially as a teacher.
00:59:01.519 --> 00:59:13.920
Um that like I have I have a student who came to me um and he had been learning um the finger positions instead of so that's like you know, there's different methods that you learn to teach piano.
00:59:14.320 --> 01:00:01.039
Um but I find that that is one of the hardest to um what do you say, unlearn um when a student comes to me with like just they've been learning the the finger positions versus like actually the building blocks of music, like the you know, reading the the notes and actually knowing the names of the notes because because especially when you have a GLP who is learning a like the number the finger positions, they're learning those chunks, and it's much harder to generalize those into uh into other areas of of music because then it's just like no, I just have to hear or hear, um, and and then it so you so it's interesting right now because I'm trying to untangle this and be like, okay, but yes, you can do these five finger positions.
01:00:01.119 --> 01:00:06.159
However, if you're gonna learn all these individual notes, we've got to kind of take those out and kind of parse them out.
01:00:06.400 --> 01:00:23.119
But the point being, I just that was one of the first times in my in my journey of understanding that it goes so far beyond language acquisition, it goes into how we learn information and process it um and and memorize it too.
01:00:23.199 --> 01:00:25.280
And that was one of the things as a musician.
01:00:25.599 --> 01:00:38.400
I didn't learn music the way other my peers were learning because I was doing it like in in chunks, um which I was able to compensate for a long time by doing that.
01:00:38.559 --> 01:00:44.320
Um and but it will only take you so far because you've got a lot of things.
01:00:44.880 --> 01:00:49.199
So yes, that's one of the challenges, I think, of being a GLP.
01:00:49.280 --> 01:01:07.360
Like there's so many wonderful, like creative things about being a GLP, but I think that one of the challenges is trying to get when you get you can only go a cert to a certain point in certain fields and areas where if you just have the chunks of information and you don't have the little individual pieces, um, it makes it harder to move forward.
01:01:07.679 --> 01:01:08.639
Music is one of those.
01:01:08.719 --> 01:01:10.960
Um that's interesting.
01:01:11.199 --> 01:01:20.639
So I'm jumping in because I'm thinking about how you know, unschooling, and that's what we're doing with my kids, and trying to explain.
01:01:20.800 --> 01:01:30.480
So, my oldest, he likes to, again, he's kind of in a critical mode right now where he's keen on pointing out the gaps and things.
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:36.559
And so he said, Well, my his brother said, Yeah, he wants to go to college.
01:01:36.719 --> 01:01:38.480
Well, that's not gonna happen.
01:01:38.559 --> 01:01:40.639
Like, he's real confident like that.
01:01:40.719 --> 01:01:42.320
I said, What do you mean that's not gonna happen?
01:01:42.400 --> 01:01:43.519
And he's like, Well, look at him.
01:01:43.599 --> 01:01:44.559
What is he doing?
01:01:44.719 --> 01:01:47.360
Like, he's not doing college y things, basically.
01:01:47.440 --> 01:01:49.440
So why would I expect or why would he expect?
01:01:49.679 --> 01:01:53.840
I said, Well, um, I know what about you?
01:01:54.079 --> 01:01:55.119
What are you doing?
01:01:55.280 --> 01:01:57.840
You know, and I didn't mean that in a challenge, actually.
01:01:57.920 --> 01:02:00.960
I wasn't trying to take his thought and make it small.
01:02:01.199 --> 01:02:05.199
I was trying to reflect back to him, like, well, how are you learning?
01:02:05.440 --> 01:02:07.760
And what do you think gaps are missing?
01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:26.320
And I I guess what I'm trying to get to here is that as I've been doing the unschooling thing and comparing that to what school was like for me, it felt like getting snowed with like a bunch of specifics without context cues.
01:02:26.719 --> 01:02:39.199
And I think that's why, in a way, we can seem like we're behind for a long time because we just don't have enough big picture information and in order to even place the little pieces in.
01:02:39.440 --> 01:03:01.760
And so I guess that's kind of how, in a way, without having words for it, I've been approaching their learning is like, okay, they they might take all this time, and I'm emphasizing, you know, that they feel regulated, that they're safe, that their you know, bodies are as healthy as possible, um, that we have calm, that we have experiences.
01:03:01.920 --> 01:03:11.840
Like I want there to be variety, but it's a very unstructured, loose thing, um, so that they can build as much of a big picture as possible.
01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:18.079
And then at the very end, and this I hear this from a lot of unschooling families, it gets tightened up.
01:03:18.320 --> 01:03:32.400
So once they figure out um what area of interest they really have, then yes, there are gaps that need to be filled, but it's so much smoother if it can be done in that way, I think, for PDA kids, especially.
01:03:32.480 --> 01:03:44.719
It's like, okay, they have this broad base, especially if you've been able to um prioritize regulation, self-care, like learning about themselves.
01:03:45.039 --> 01:03:48.800
Um, we have all this stuff going on on the inside.
01:03:49.119 --> 01:03:50.880
And so anyway, I don't know.
01:03:50.960 --> 01:03:54.159
Again, I'm like, I hope this makes sense since I'm talking about it.
01:03:54.400 --> 01:03:56.719
I'm gonna, I'm gonna count on it, on it doing so.
01:03:56.800 --> 01:04:10.559
But I feel like my role as their parent isn't to teach them a bunch of specifics, it's to model this way of living that's like, okay, this is how we live in a way to feel peaceful, to feel good, to be able to gather information.
01:04:10.800 --> 01:04:17.840
Then like 10% of us is spent tightening it up, learning the linear process of things, filling in gaps.
01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:23.360
You know, um, you need to, oh my gosh, my child is freaking knocking on my door as I'm trying to talk.
01:04:23.519 --> 01:04:24.559
Someone else talks.
01:04:24.800 --> 01:04:25.440
I have an idea.
01:04:25.599 --> 01:04:26.480
Yes, please, Cyrus.
01:04:26.719 --> 01:04:27.519
And I'm not Cheryl.
01:04:27.599 --> 01:04:29.039
I did listen to the Cheryl conversation.
01:04:29.119 --> 01:04:29.840
That's gorgeous.
01:04:29.920 --> 01:04:32.000
Because I like all of her metaphors are so great.
01:04:32.079 --> 01:04:33.360
I get and I don't tell her that.
01:04:33.519 --> 01:04:35.119
But anyway, I came up with a metaphor.
01:04:35.280 --> 01:04:39.280
I don't know if it works, but it's too kind of what Brooke was saying, or the visual I got.
01:04:39.440 --> 01:04:45.440
Where um I used as a kid, I used to, I'm not good at crafts, and neither am I good at music, but appreciate both very deeply.
01:04:45.599 --> 01:04:47.039
And they're still meaningful to me.
01:04:47.199 --> 01:04:49.840
I'm a yeah, very um engaged recipient.
01:04:50.079 --> 01:04:50.800
Okay, whatever.
01:04:51.039 --> 01:04:58.159
Uh but yeah, when I was a kid, uh it would take like colored yarn to like um like the kind of yarn that would like have all the different rainbow colors in the same thread.
01:04:58.320 --> 01:05:00.000
And um, I would do some like weaving thing.
01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:01.119
It was like super basic.
01:05:01.360 --> 01:05:05.599
But um and I think I'd try to make like coasters or just squares.
01:05:05.679 --> 01:05:23.760
I don't even know what they were or rectangles, but um, I remember like because I wasn't very good at it, like you know, when you started out, I would have like all different sizes of like little loops, and there'd be like holes and whatever, but sometimes like after it was like cut out, somebody else would take and like kind of like stretch it out a little bit and like eat a bit, and you know, I don't know.
01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:32.719
Kind of sounds like you know, a tapestry experience a little bit of like letting them go broad or letting them go broad and then to and then kind of think of it.
01:05:32.880 --> 01:05:39.760
And then your musical thing, it like reminded me of how like, yeah, so many GLPs, especially the little ones you can see easier, they're so musical, right?
01:05:39.840 --> 01:05:42.239
Like they are really interested in the rhythm or the tone.
01:05:42.480 --> 01:05:54.400
And I'm like, now if we're talking like links or things referred to, I'm like, oh, one of the pods that I really liked as from my SLP self, but I like her name's Karin, and she's an SLP who's just extremely musical, um, is a musician.
01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:56.880
And so her whole thing is like singing everything.
01:05:57.199 --> 01:06:04.719
And she finds that like little GLP ears are So like interested in tone and musicality and all that.
01:06:04.880 --> 01:06:07.920
And she leads with that, like even more so than the words.
01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:13.199
And um, I like her on her pod, I think it's called the Gitched All Get Together on socials.
01:06:13.280 --> 01:06:14.800
She's Grossando Communication.
01:06:14.960 --> 01:06:20.159
But I just like how she started um I like her episodes the most, not the ones with providers.
01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:23.199
I like the ones where she interviews a parent and she's fine.
01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:27.760
And she likes just to be really real about asking, like, hey, well, could I have done differently?
01:06:28.159 --> 01:06:28.320
You know?
01:06:28.400 --> 01:06:31.360
So for any providers out there, go listen to that.
01:06:31.519 --> 01:06:31.760
Right.
01:06:33.199 --> 01:06:38.960
But it also like it just and like, yeah, I'm not I tried to be musical as a kid was not was terrible.
01:06:39.199 --> 01:06:40.000
I hate practicing.
01:06:40.159 --> 01:06:40.639
I'm like, eh.
01:06:41.280 --> 01:06:51.599
But anyway, like but but but but I do find like, you know, I feel like other autistic audiopedia, whatever adults often talk about, like how deeply like music can bring them back to a place.
01:06:51.679 --> 01:06:56.960
So like there's certain songs that are like I'll go back to and like I'll know exactly where I listened to it and how it got through me through.
01:06:57.199 --> 01:06:58.320
That's it.
01:06:58.559 --> 01:06:58.719
Whatever.
01:06:58.880 --> 01:07:02.239
So I'm like, that's kind of related, kinda, but that's how I am with shows.
01:07:02.400 --> 01:07:05.199
I'll be like, uh, I'm gonna put I don't listen to music as much.
01:07:05.280 --> 01:07:09.840
I always thought it was such a weird I'm I'm I accept who I am, I accept how I am.
01:07:10.079 --> 01:07:17.199
I love to sing, um, but music does not do for me what it does for other people uh in the same way.
01:07:17.360 --> 01:07:24.960
Like I'll listen to music as like uh just enjoyable activity thing, not as a grounding thing.
01:07:25.199 --> 01:07:29.599
If I want to feel grounded, I will watch a familiar show or read a familiar book.
01:07:29.760 --> 01:07:32.320
That is my grounding experience.
01:07:32.400 --> 01:07:40.239
And I do or picture where was I when you know, when I was watching this last, um, what activity was I going through?
01:07:40.400 --> 01:07:42.239
And I I now I'm remembering too.
01:07:42.400 --> 01:08:06.400
You're talking about memory, and uh and I think like for me, memory for me becomes very tricky because so much is attached to context that if someone says words, hey, do you remember in 1923, which wasn't alive then, but you know, like I need that's my first hurdle.
01:08:07.039 --> 01:08:08.960
My first hurdle is I didn't exist.
01:08:09.280 --> 01:08:09.920
My second hurdle.
01:08:11.360 --> 01:08:12.000
But yeah.
01:08:12.320 --> 01:08:38.000
My second hurdle is that I'm just like, no, I need to I need to be able to picture what was going on, what the X like I need the picture, but it's really hard uh to even like even if someone starts saying words again, like using words to say, well, remember we were this there and this was happening and that was happening, and maybe if we're lucky, that'll sink in and I'll picture what they're saying.
01:08:38.079 --> 01:08:39.520
I'll go, oh yeah, okay.
01:08:39.840 --> 01:08:50.079
But it is very hard for me because I am so connected to just the visual context of a thing that to recall it, I have to be able to travel there.
01:08:50.159 --> 01:08:53.279
And I don't necessarily have that shortcut, you know.
01:08:53.359 --> 01:08:59.600
It's like, oh, I don't know, something happened last week, sure, something happened five years ago that was apparent.
01:08:59.760 --> 01:09:01.199
That freaks me out a little bit.
01:09:01.359 --> 01:09:08.319
Sometimes I'll be stumble across a piece of history of my own history, and I will completely forget.
01:09:08.479 --> 01:09:14.079
I'm like, wow, this feels like I was living a different life, and I have totally forgotten it.
01:09:14.319 --> 01:09:15.920
And that scares me a little bit.
01:09:16.159 --> 01:09:18.640
But anyway, we've been talking a while.
01:09:18.800 --> 01:09:22.159
Look at that, even with just very little uh structure.
01:09:22.720 --> 01:09:24.479
We went for an hour and freaking 15 minutes.
01:09:26.079 --> 01:09:26.479
I know.
01:09:26.640 --> 01:09:29.119
I'm like, this is modeling a gestalt way.
01:09:29.359 --> 01:09:31.600
The gestalt taking you with us.
01:09:31.920 --> 01:09:35.279
Can I just sort of like add on to what we were talking about with memory?
01:09:35.520 --> 01:09:43.039
It it was I was thinking about this earlier too, and talking about with um gestalt processing, we have a lot of ecolalia, right?
01:09:43.520 --> 01:09:49.119
Um, and I have a great story about echolalia and Alice, but I don't have time now.
01:09:49.279 --> 01:09:52.880
But um it was when we moved to California, and oh man.
01:09:53.199 --> 01:10:08.640
So but it reminded me of my mother when she had dementia, and she started you know her time on memory, so but she her language changed so much.
01:10:09.359 --> 01:10:22.000
And she started really having like very specific and limited scripts um that she could access in order to communicate, um, which nobody understood.
01:10:22.159 --> 01:10:38.640
You know, this was five years ago, and I I didn't know anything about GLP at the time, except that I knew, you know, starting to learn about it with Alice, but I was noticing like she, and we were like kind of you know, laugh about it at the time, it was like, oh, she'd say, oh, amazing, amazing.
01:10:38.880 --> 01:10:42.960
But she really like that was all she could access at that point.
01:10:43.359 --> 01:10:45.760
But it was also so grounding for, I think.
01:10:46.319 --> 01:11:00.479
Um, but just to kind of tying trying to tie to trying to tie her threads together, but like, you know, how this affects autistic people, PDAs, through the lifespan of like in different areas of life.
01:11:00.640 --> 01:11:12.880
And I think it is very interesting how you know we can look at look at all these different pieces of you know, how it affects our children, how it affects us and whatever this middle part of life is.
01:11:13.039 --> 01:11:16.560
And then um later too, just different ways.
01:11:16.640 --> 01:11:32.399
But if we have a much deeper understanding of it, it allows us to understand how to support um our our families and our people so much better because we're not just looking at it as how are we communicating our words.
01:11:32.560 --> 01:11:53.119
We're really it is a much deeper, like, how are we communicating all of these emotions that you know are for a lot of us are just way too big to hold, especially, you know, think about a child having a huge meltdown because they're just trying so hard to communicate why something is upsetting them.
01:11:53.199 --> 01:11:56.960
And we you know, we're trying to we're struggling to like understand and access that.
01:11:57.119 --> 01:11:59.760
This is like I feel like GLP is really like a shortcut.
01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:41.039
If we understand it more and we apply that to our children and then going out, you know, we're talking about it with our relationships and our lives, and then I'm looking at my mother too, when at the end of her life, and that was you know, something that was for her, it was so soothing to be able to just you know express her amazement, you know, like yeah, you know, so um just I the reason why I feel like this is so relevant to PDA is what do we always you know hear about in the group all the time is uh you know, and all the families that we work with, it's like behavior, right, is just always the the what people are coming to us about.
01:12:41.520 --> 01:12:44.800
Like that's one of the bigger struggles, specific behaviors, yeah.
01:12:45.359 --> 01:12:54.079
Yeah, how to support it, and I feel like like what I've talked about with Alice, there's just times when she's just gotta do that sequence, she's gotta get that that thing done.
01:12:54.239 --> 01:13:06.560
And I think that really could open up so much for providers and families um to to kind of reframe a lot of things with this.
01:13:06.880 --> 01:13:07.359
Oh my god.
01:13:07.600 --> 01:13:10.640
Iris, I'm gonna let you go ahead and jump in because I gotta find out.
01:13:12.159 --> 01:13:13.920
I forget it shorter lived in my mind.
01:13:14.319 --> 01:13:14.880
I'll forget.
01:13:15.119 --> 01:13:15.600
I respect that.
01:13:16.319 --> 01:13:16.560
Okay.
01:13:16.640 --> 01:13:19.279
Uh uh, yes, dementia runs in my family too.
01:13:19.439 --> 01:13:26.800
But it but it it made me think like, oh yeah, I was like, oh, how different is the experience of dementia for like an animal person versus a Kishan?
01:13:27.119 --> 01:13:27.760
I wonder, right?
01:13:27.840 --> 01:13:29.600
And like, yeah, but your story is so beautiful.
01:13:29.840 --> 01:13:32.479
That's true for sharing honoring her.
01:13:32.720 --> 01:13:39.199
That way, and then oh gosh, where was all the oh, I feel like the the I'm starting to get some visual metaphors where I'm very proud of myself.
01:13:39.359 --> 01:13:40.560
So I'm not a metaphor person.
01:13:40.640 --> 01:13:51.600
I like Cheryl for her metaphors, but anyway, uh I was like, I feel like Amy, what you're trying to, what you're trying to, what you're what you are doing for us is like, okay, so I've never been able to make a wobble like those crochet things.
01:13:51.680 --> 01:13:52.479
I don't think I ever will.
01:13:52.560 --> 01:13:54.960
I have one that's very dusty in a shower because I had ambitions.
01:13:55.119 --> 01:13:56.880
I'm never gonna open it because it looks too scary.
01:13:57.039 --> 01:14:00.479
But I feel like you're trying to like, you're you're you're pulling all the threads.
01:14:00.640 --> 01:14:02.239
Yes, the thing that the people see.
01:14:02.560 --> 01:14:03.600
Distilling like a thing.
01:14:04.000 --> 01:14:05.039
Distilling it down.
01:14:06.239 --> 01:14:07.680
That's what I'm trying to do too.
01:14:07.840 --> 01:14:12.239
How do we take this and make it something useful for other people?
01:14:12.399 --> 01:14:12.960
Here we go.
01:14:13.039 --> 01:14:14.479
Let's distill it down.
01:14:14.720 --> 01:14:20.560
Um I was yes, into hopefully something that doesn't stink.
01:14:22.000 --> 01:14:24.800
I have a stinky plan in the air, but that's a whole other thing.
01:14:26.239 --> 01:14:28.800
So, so my thing, are you done with your thing?
01:14:28.880 --> 01:14:35.279
I don't want to get over out thrown like one super fast one, just go out the whole day because I'm literally holding it on my phone.
01:14:35.520 --> 01:14:36.560
Oh no, okay, perfect.
01:14:37.600 --> 01:14:44.000
But when you were talking about like visuals and pictures, it reminded me of like there's this blog that I follow now, it's called The North Star and the Compass.
01:14:44.079 --> 01:15:00.319
It's on Facebook only, but it's um by someone named Shuba, and they do a lot of s with like disability justice things, but I and they're a parent of like uh a black non-speaking GLP kid, but they use a lot of pictures and videos that they voice over themselves as an avenue of unschooling.
01:15:00.399 --> 01:15:05.039
And I just think it's really interesting because it may not be what they're doing, but I'm like it it like helps me.
01:15:05.199 --> 01:15:08.159
I don't even know if this is a right, it helps interrogate, like, you know, what are we doing?
01:15:08.239 --> 01:15:08.880
What are we not doing?
01:15:09.119 --> 01:15:09.199
Yeah.
01:15:09.680 --> 01:15:25.600
Different ways to live and be in kind of like what you were saying, Amy, like this whole cracking open the kistal, not cracking open the kish doll because three Easter eggs to be cracked open, but just like it to see it in a different lens and in like more holistically, not just the language bit and how it's different.
01:15:25.680 --> 01:15:28.399
It like helps people see our whole humanity, right?
01:15:28.720 --> 01:15:29.920
Yes, yes.
01:15:30.239 --> 01:15:32.319
Anyway, thank you for waiting.
01:15:32.560 --> 01:15:40.960
No, that great that is a great uh springboard and probably a good way to tie this up because my children will keep interrupting me.
01:15:41.199 --> 01:15:52.720
Um I guess I want to say too what I'm what I've gathered from this conversation is okay, hold on, give me a second here.
01:15:53.760 --> 01:16:01.199
So PDA people might be especially inclined to be you know crystal processors.
01:16:01.920 --> 01:16:07.680
Um there is something to that as well about pressure.
01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:16.880
So sometimes getting too that that that that that too linear can feel like pressure.
01:16:17.279 --> 01:16:30.159
Um and so much of our society and our culture, whatever, is relying on linear processes, I feel like, in order to gauge like progress, security, so on.
01:16:30.479 --> 01:16:39.359
So I would say if someone's listening to this and they're trying to think like, what can I how what can I take from this?
01:16:39.439 --> 01:16:50.399
Not only about like understanding children, I would encourage like maybe the it would be nice if the society itself became more uh gestalt processors because I know it helps me a lot.
01:16:50.560 --> 01:16:52.000
It helps my kids a lot.
01:16:52.159 --> 01:16:57.439
I think it helps everybody a lot when we don't get too fixated on specific moments.
01:16:57.840 --> 01:17:06.159
And I say that because a lot of times when people are troubleshooting, I almost feel redundant when they're troubleshooting behaviors.
01:17:06.560 --> 01:17:11.279
You know, they're really, really looking intensely at this thing that happened.
01:17:11.439 --> 01:17:15.359
You know, they might be looking immediately upstream, which are all part of the process.
01:17:15.439 --> 01:17:15.920
That's fine.
01:17:16.079 --> 01:17:20.399
It's fine to think, you know, let's look upstream, let's look at what happened right beforehand.
01:17:20.560 --> 01:17:30.560
Um, PDA seems to be especially slippery, though, and there can be something completely unconnected to a behavior, or to us, we can't see how it connects.
01:17:30.800 --> 01:17:37.039
And so I always go pull, I ask people to pull back, okay, well, let's let's look bigger picture.
01:17:37.199 --> 01:17:39.279
You know, what's the whole lifestyle look like?
01:17:39.520 --> 01:17:44.399
Because we could get we could lose the forest through the trees very easily with PDA.
01:17:44.640 --> 01:17:55.920
And if all we're trying to do is fix a series of behaviors, we are going to miss the whole freaking point, which is we need a different kind of life, you know?
01:17:56.239 --> 01:17:59.680
And I know that we can't all just immediately accommodate that.
01:17:59.840 --> 01:18:00.880
That's totally fine.
01:18:01.039 --> 01:18:11.039
It's not asking for magical processes from anybody, but you can't even think to troubleshoot along those lines if you're not thinking about that as a possibility.
01:18:11.199 --> 01:18:16.720
Like, I I just don't I can't think of workarounds for something if I don't you know I need to work around it.
01:18:16.880 --> 01:18:22.000
I'm I could just be thinking, this is the way it's supposed to be, and my kid's not fitting.
01:18:22.239 --> 01:18:23.760
And how do I fix that?
01:18:23.920 --> 01:18:28.640
And it's like, well, you know, and I know that's a lot of advocacy is trying to pull away from that.
01:18:28.720 --> 01:18:29.840
Like, stop for a second.
01:18:30.079 --> 01:18:36.079
We get it, this immediate thing is distressing, it's very difficult, it's hard, it's causing X, Y, Z to happen.
01:18:36.319 --> 01:18:42.319
But if you want a bigger long-term solution, you're gonna have to pull back, you're gonna have to look bigger.
01:18:42.640 --> 01:18:48.319
So I think gestalt processing is part of that.
01:18:48.479 --> 01:18:50.239
It's like, I don't know.
01:18:50.560 --> 01:18:52.560
I feel like it's healthy in that way.
01:18:52.880 --> 01:18:54.560
So boom.
01:18:54.880 --> 01:18:56.560
Take that linear processing.
01:18:57.279 --> 01:18:57.840
Boom.
01:18:58.000 --> 01:19:00.880
Yeah, let's beat up on some other process.
01:19:01.199 --> 01:19:01.680
Boom.
01:19:01.920 --> 01:19:04.000
We're knocking down just like my child would.
01:19:04.399 --> 01:19:04.720
Okay.
01:19:05.359 --> 01:19:07.359
All right, I'll wrap this up.
01:19:08.079 --> 01:19:13.359
I want to say, Iris, I know you were you were nervous and all that, but this was a lot of fun.
01:19:13.600 --> 01:19:15.119
And I really enjoyed it.
01:19:15.279 --> 01:19:17.600
I think we're gonna ask you sometime in the future.
01:19:17.680 --> 01:19:19.199
We'll give you time to recharge.
01:19:20.159 --> 01:19:24.319
But you'll we we might ask you to be a regular guest because of how fun this was.
01:19:24.640 --> 01:19:26.640
So put them on your britches.
01:19:27.039 --> 01:19:28.000
Put them on your britches.
01:19:28.239 --> 01:19:29.119
Be ready for that.
01:19:29.359 --> 01:19:31.680
You can always do regulars.
01:19:32.000 --> 01:19:32.479
Yes.
01:19:33.039 --> 01:19:34.479
We have a cat meet and greet.
01:19:34.880 --> 01:19:37.520
Oh my god, I have two cats right by me right now.
01:19:37.600 --> 01:19:38.960
I have one under the desk.
01:19:39.279 --> 01:19:42.239
Mine would have muted me and logged me off, so that's that.
01:19:43.439 --> 01:19:45.439
Like, anyway.
01:19:45.920 --> 01:19:48.560
All right, I'll give us a rest and thank you again.
01:19:48.720 --> 01:19:51.520
And um, just yeah.
01:19:51.680 --> 01:19:52.079
Thank you.
01:19:52.159 --> 01:19:53.600
Bye, everybody.