WEBVTT
00:00:01.280 --> 00:00:05.919
All right, guys, welcome back to our Wednesday episode of Paradigm Shift.
00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:14.080
As we told you guys, we were kicking it up a notch because uh we're getting tons more uh downloads and streams and stuff like that.
00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:17.039
So we're gonna kick it up a notch and give you more of what you want.
00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:27.440
Make sure you're always letting us know uh what you want us to kind of break down, dive deep into, and what mysteries or conspiracies you want us to solve because that's what we do here.
00:00:27.519 --> 00:00:28.239
We solve mysteries.
00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:29.839
I'm Big Rob back with Jesse.
00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:31.039
What's happening, buddy?
00:00:31.359 --> 00:00:33.520
Hey man, I am ready to go today.
00:00:33.679 --> 00:00:47.039
This is a topic in today's episode that I have been looking forward to for quite a while, and it's also a topic, I think, with AI right now, that um it's kind of on the forefront of a lot of our uh social media apps.
00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:54.640
I know personally, uh somehow I got caught in a rabbit hole of this thing a couple weeks back, and I I don't think I've ever come out of it.
00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:56.399
So I'm still in the rabbit hole.
00:00:56.799 --> 00:00:57.920
Still there, bro.
00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:05.040
Oh all right.
00:01:05.120 --> 00:01:07.439
So, yes, what are we talking about today?
00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:09.599
Yeah, it's okay.
00:01:10.079 --> 00:01:10.719
Go ahead, go ahead.
00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:12.079
Sorry, I thought you were asking me.
00:01:12.159 --> 00:01:12.640
Go ahead.
00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:21.280
So we we've done a lot of diving lately into some of the real world stuff that's happening, namely uh the Lindsay Clancy case.
00:01:21.359 --> 00:01:25.359
I think we've done about three episodes on that, and we will continue to today.
00:01:25.439 --> 00:01:37.519
We're kind of diving into something that is becoming an alarming, uh, an alarming topic with people, and we'd be getting warnings from people like Elon Musk in regards to this.
00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:41.040
And it is, is AI gonna kill us?
00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:42.400
What do you think, Jesse?
00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:43.840
What are your opening thoughts on this?
00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:45.680
Is AI gonna kill us?
00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:51.680
That that is a very loaded question to open the episode with.
00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:53.519
You're welcome.
00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:59.280
Yeah, yeah, you know, I think over the course of this episode, we're probably gonna mostly answer that.
00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:02.480
I mean, this is what we do here on the paradigm shift, right?
00:02:02.719 --> 00:02:08.800
We we kind of cut cut a knife straight through the bullshit and we see where we actually land on this thing.
00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:28.639
Um, I would say that I think right now the rapid pace of AI is what is very alarming on a bunch of different levels, whether it's in the workplace, you know, we've got a lot of jobs right now that are being replaced by uh AI.
00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:39.840
Um, it's also kind of coming about in all different facets of our life, uh, AI is being implemented into various systems across the board.
00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:43.840
And it seems like the people are kind of being removed.
00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:52.400
And I know, like, just personally, I mean, I have seen this on multiple websites online where there is no customer service anymore.
00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:57.919
Um, it's just an endless loop of of bots that you're talking to, which is kind of weird.
00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:01.520
Oh, dude, that drives me up the freaking wall.
00:03:01.759 --> 00:03:12.800
Like, listen, real quick, just calling, like when I when I'm when I book a hotel room in in Vegas or Toronto or wherever it is I'm going, right?
00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:17.360
And I need to talk to somebody because of this detail or that detail.
00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:25.919
Holy smokes, man! Like the true the the hotel I said in Toronto, it was just bot after bot after bot and transfer after transfer.
00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:32.319
Like, whatever happened to somebody behind the desk picking up the damn phone and answering a question, yes or no.
00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:33.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:50.719
And and kind of what you're getting at here is with AI, there's a term for this that there has to be a quote, human in the loop, and the human they refer to as the orchestrator, so it's just like the orchestrator at the orchestra conducting all the different instruments.
00:03:50.960 --> 00:04:00.240
There has to be a human in this somewhere, uh, to for basically kind of just the comprehension, the understanding, the empathy.
00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:02.159
Um, yeah, let me help you with that.
00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:04.159
Let yeah, let me resolve this.
00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:11.759
But the reality is, I think on a lot of sites uh AI across the board now.
00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:20.720
And so, you know, I think just opening this thing up, it's moving at such a rapid pace that I don't know.
00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:28.079
I don't, I don't, I don't see the the laws keeping up with it, I don't see governments keeping up with it.
00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:34.079
I don't even know if I see people keeping up with it at the rate at that it's accelerating.
00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:36.319
Yeah, I agree 100%.
00:04:36.879 --> 00:04:43.279
It's we went from what the remember the Will Smith pasta eating video, yeah.
00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:45.120
That was not long ago, man.
00:04:45.279 --> 00:04:50.959
Now it's like you can't tell the difference between actually Will Smith eating spaghetti or not.
00:04:51.199 --> 00:04:52.879
Yeah, yeah, very true, right?
00:04:52.959 --> 00:04:59.839
I mean, X, uh, you know, the X platform, uh, YouTube, I mean, they are just slammed full of AI videos right now.
00:04:59.920 --> 00:05:03.600
And the videos have gotten better and better and better.
00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:07.279
And it is getting harder to tell what's real and what's not real.
00:05:07.519 --> 00:05:12.000
And you, you know, I always kind of think there's sort of like two different groups of people, right?
00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:17.920
So on one side, you have the group that um accepts what authority tells them, right?
00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:21.439
Whatever that authority is, they they accept it at face value.
00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:22.319
That's true.
00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:29.279
You have another group on the other side that sort of questions authority, they don't necessarily believe it and they question it.
00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:36.959
And I think as a reasonable person, you kind of need to be able to meet in the middle of this issue, right?
00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:47.680
But the reality is that the group that accepts everything at face value from authority, they don't they have a very hard time telling that this is AI talking to you.
00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:49.519
This is completely misleading.
00:05:49.680 --> 00:06:05.759
And you know, a fantastic example of this, kind of getting into this in our episode that I know we talked about off-camera, is that um over the past couple of days, Ukraine has uh fired drones into three data centers in Russia.
00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:08.800
So these are their Yandex data centers.
00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:20.000
And after they've blown up all three of them, weirdly, all of the hard right propaganda across the internet has gone quiet.
00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:23.439
And there's statistics about it across the board.
00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:50.000
And Trump has come out against Ukraine blowing up these data centers, Elon has come out against Ukraine blowing up the data centers, and obviously Russia does not want the data centers, so all of a sudden, all the Russian propaganda and all the hard right supposed people across social media have gone quiet because actually they're Russian bots.
00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:54.800
Not surprising, not surprising.
00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:57.040
Funny little side note for you.
00:06:57.519 --> 00:07:01.519
When I you you remember when I went to Japan and I interviewed Hara, right?
00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:02.399
Yes, yep.
00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:12.639
Well, well, I had put the four-part documentary series of that trip over on X and on YouTube, and crazy.
00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:32.639
I don't know if you've seen it or not, but somebody took that uh a clip from from me meeting Hara in person, and AI generated a scene from the Matrix where all of a sudden Hara and I we shake hands when we meet, and all of a sudden we break out into a battle like we're in the matrix.
00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:43.519
We're jumping off of roofs and fighting and crashing through windows of other buildings, and go just going back, and it's like there's in a helicopter and stuff, and it's it looks like me and Hara.
00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:47.600
Wow, just having this matrix style fight.
00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:50.800
Yeah, like to the point where our you know, you know, Rue.
00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:53.360
Um for those listening, he's a mutual friend.
00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:57.759
He sent me a DM over on X and he because he was he was wondering if I was angry about it.
00:07:57.839 --> 00:07:59.360
I said, I think this is hilarious.
00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:01.279
I'm not angry about this at all, right?
00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:04.399
Like, yeah, yeah, but that's how far it's come.
00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:17.360
Just took just from a little like maybe 20-second clip they they clipped out from my my documentary and turned it into like a like a five-minute matrix battle between me and Hara.
00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:19.040
Yeah, that's amazing.
00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:27.519
And and you know, the other part here is you never granted like a permission to do this or anything, it just sort of happened, and there it is, right?
00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:36.799
That's and that that makes you wonder where the legal precedent is for that, because it can't be legal, like right.
00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:55.840
Like, I mean, you can't just take somebody's image and have AI create a video of them doing whatever it is you want them to be doing and post it publicly and something that that's gotta be there's has to be legal precedent somewhere for for something like that, right?
00:08:55.919 --> 00:08:56.080
Right.
00:08:56.240 --> 00:09:21.519
Like this is a big issue in um in the motion picture industry right now and across you know television and and right like like they I think Disney, I I think it was Disney was the first one that did this when they took Carrie Fisher's image and they put her in one of the Star Wars movies, and she had already been deceased, she was dead, but they put her in the movie, right?
00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:46.000
They put her face in there, and then after that, that kind of sounded the alarm, I think, to you know, kind of their uh actors union, etc., across the board, like, hey, uh we're not we're not on board with taking our faces and putting them, continuing them in this imagery, you know, if if we're not here and and it's it's kind of like stealing like a copyrighted song or something without permission.
00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:49.519
You can't take this person's face and put it in there.
00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:58.559
But the reality is if you go to X right now, there are tons of videos that have taken people's faces that are you know parodied all the day long.
00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:03.279
I mean, there's tons of Trump videos on there that are parodied, they're all AI.
00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:05.360
I mean, there it's crazy, you know.
00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:08.720
And here's the thing a lot of it is done in jest, right?
00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:15.519
A lot of it is done for humor for entertainment purposes and stuff like that, and and that is what it is.
00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:41.519
But as we go into AI, as we tie AI into this, now you're in trouble because one of the first threats when it comes to AI is that AI can take your image and create videos of you doing or saying whatever it wants, yeah, and using that to manipulate situations, manipulate you as a person.
00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:56.399
Here's a video, Jesse, uh, that AI created of you meeting up with uh some other woman at a hotel, and it's gonna send it to your wife if you don't do what you're told.
00:10:57.279 --> 00:10:58.799
That's wild, yeah.
00:10:59.039 --> 00:10:59.679
Absolutely.
00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:02.639
That's just one possible blackmail video, right?
00:11:02.799 --> 00:11:05.519
Yeah, yeah, you could totally do that.
00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:13.519
Because how how does AI make things happen in the real world that it can't physically, you know, do on its own?
00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:16.720
Well, it manipulates and blackmails people.
00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:31.759
Well, and and and think about very powerful people that it could be blackmailing all over the place, you know, whether it's corporate, like you know, like somebody like a Jamie Diamond at like you know, JP Morgan, right?
00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:41.519
Like somebody like that that has a high profile, um, that's you know, well connected and clearly has a lot of money sitting at at the top of JP Morgan.
00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:44.799
They could totally blackmail him on something like that, you know.
00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:46.879
Say Bitcoin's bad, Jamie.
00:11:47.039 --> 00:11:48.559
Say Bitcoin's bad.
00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:51.679
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:53.840
But but I mean you know, it's totally true.
00:11:53.919 --> 00:12:05.600
I mean, you could have there's all kinds of nefarious ways that AI can really kind of get what it wants or what a bad actor controlling it wants, you know.
00:12:06.879 --> 00:12:13.120
But how long before AI like when when do we let me ask you this?
00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:35.600
When do we reach the point where the inevitability, you would have to think inevitability, of AI becoming self-aware, and that is that terminator judgment day skynet moment where AI becomes self-aware and says, I don't fucking want to do what you're asking me to do right now.
00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:38.000
Instead, how about I do this?
00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:50.639
How long before we feed some uh loosely worded arbitrary command about you know keeping humanity safe or something like that?
00:12:50.960 --> 00:13:13.679
And we see that in movies as well, where AI and and and we're gonna get into the integration of AI into robots, don't get me wrong, we'll we'll get into that, where all of a sudden we are being oppressed by AI to keep us safe from ourselves because we are inherently a self-destructive species.
00:13:14.799 --> 00:13:15.919
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:21.519
It's it's kind of the the line of how we're gonna spin off this planet, right?
00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:24.080
That's kind of what this is, right?
00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:26.159
Here's a quote for you, Rob.
00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:34.480
The Skynet funding bill is passed, the system goes online August 4th, 1997.
00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:38.720
Human decisions are removed from strategic defense.
00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:42.879
Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate.
00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:46.080
It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m.
00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:48.639
Eastern time, August 29th.
00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:50.879
So literally 25 days later.
00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:53.759
In a panic, they try to pull the plug.
00:13:54.080 --> 00:14:00.720
So this is the quote from Arnold when he's talking to Sarah and John Connor in Terminator 2, right?
00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:17.120
And he then goes on to say that basically uh the system fired uh America's nuclear arsenal at Russia, knowing full well that Russia would then fire their nuclear arsenal back at America, and that's judgment day.
00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:20.799
Shots fired! Shots fired.
00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:24.080
Yeah, shots fired.
00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:32.960
And and what what is insane to me about that that quote is the rate of acceleration, right?
00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:44.559
The the Occam's razor idea of of this rapidly accelerating AI that in the movie Terminator 2, it took it 25 days to become self-aware.
00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:49.759
So, what is what is it that Elon is warning us about?
00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:52.159
Is it not that exact thing?
00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:54.960
What do you mean with Elon warning us?
00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:59.360
I think Elon's sort of propagating a lot of this, uh rock, right?
00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:06.960
For the last couple of years, he's been warning that we need to slow down in terms of the development of AI and its capabilities.
00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:08.960
Yeah, yeah.
00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:10.399
And I agree with that.
00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:13.919
We need to proceed slowly, right?
00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:31.919
But the the problem though, with that is that you have private businesses, publicly traded private businesses, and in a way they are sort of in an arms race competing against each other while also competing against China, right?
00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:36.799
Let me let me I'm gonna go down another rabbit hole with you on this.
00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:37.519
Now follow me.
00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:39.120
I I've always been a big trekie.
00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:40.720
I don't know if you've been a big trekkie.
00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:49.360
I I really a couple years back, they had all the original episodes of Star Trek on Netflix, and I watched like all of them, loved it.
00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:54.799
So, yes, so now there are two characters in Star Trek.
00:15:54.879 --> 00:16:06.320
If you're not a Star Trek fan, it it relates to what we're talking about here because there is a moral message that is being sent out, right?
00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:17.840
Now, in TNG with data, we saw an episode where Data was uh in a court case in a legal battle where Picard was his lawyer, right?
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:23.679
Where Data was fighting for his right to be sovereign, right?
00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:28.559
And Data is an artificial intelligence robot, if you don't know, right?
00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:47.519
And but Starfleet, which is the government, decides that all of a sudden, well, we want to learn how to create more of you, so uh we're just gonna take you from the enterprise, you're gonna come to our lab, we're gonna take you apart, dissect you, and try to figure out how to how to build more of you, right?
00:16:48.240 --> 00:17:00.720
And uh, so data obviously is in a in a this legal battle with Picard again as his as his lawyer because he's like, No, you're not going to take uh you're not going to.
00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:12.799
I don't want to be the catalyst of you creating a race of of pe like these artificial intelligence robots that then you can then use as slave laborers and stuff like that.
00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:14.160
Right?
00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:16.640
He's like, I don't know, right?
00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:17.599
Sorry, bro.
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:28.559
He said what he says is you show me your your your data, no pun intended, I'll review it and and I'll help kind of thing, but but you're not dissecting me and stuff.
00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:48.799
So anyway, I found it interesting that that that episode was so far ahead of its time, and then it leads me to another episode of Star Trek Voyager where the doctor, the hologram, is also in a fight, a legal fight, for uh he he makes art.
00:17:50.480 --> 00:18:11.279
And this this company he's publishing his stories through, like he's he's an artist, he writes stories, he makes his story, and this this agency goes off, sells his story, and makes a whole bunch of money or whatever the case might be, like get all this all this credit, and he's like, Hey, like my name's not on here, and they're like, Well, you're a hologram, so you don't have you're an AI hologram, right?
00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:15.279
You don't have legal rights to your own work, right?
00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:16.079
Right, right.
00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:43.200
So then he's in court, and it's a it's again it's a whole legal battle over whether he has rights to anything that he creates, even though he's a he's a self-aware, and it leads me to think about we don't have a good history as a race when it comes to the treatment of people or living beings that are different than us, right?
00:18:43.680 --> 00:19:35.440
So it leads me down the road of and and you would have to think AI would be would know that, would be able to see our history and be able to project that if AI is uh self-aware, are we still is it is it morally acceptable for us then for robotics and AI to force manual labor or or you know any kind of labor online, you know, on the internet, whatever the whatever work needs to be done, is it morally acceptable for us to force AI and robots to do this because we've created a self-aware being, a being with that's alive, essentially, in a different way than us, but what is the criteria for for life?
00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:41.759
Yeah, independence, self-awareness, consciousness.
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:45.680
So if we create these things, we've created life.
00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:52.960
Is it now morally acceptable for us to enslave that life or to do our bidding?
00:19:54.559 --> 00:20:05.599
So let me start by saying good, if not great, science fiction usually predicts the future, right?
00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:12.240
Usually, and this is why uh Star Trek has resonated as long as it has.
00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:19.200
Now, that scenario that you just talked about, this is the movie Blade Runner.
00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:20.079
That's Blade Runner.
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:22.240
I never actually watched Blade Runner.
00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:24.160
Yeah, this this is Blade Runner.
00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:38.400
So so the story in Blade Runner is that they have created these AI robot beings that basically have a consciousness and they're self-aware, and they have created them as slaves.
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:49.119
Now, in the movie Blade Runner, uh a band of these slaves escapes, it's like seven of them or something like that.
00:20:49.359 --> 00:21:02.240
And Harrison Ford's character is tasked, he's a detective, with tracking them down and either you know killing them, turning them in, whatever, somehow capturing them, right?
00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:08.319
This this is Blade Runner, and what's amazing about it, like Elon.
00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:13.839
Um, I don't know if you've seen like those Tesla robots he has that look like a person, right?
00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:22.400
Well, that's that's exactly what these things are gonna be doing, is they're gonna be doing all of the heavy manual labor at some point in time.
00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:30.480
You're not gonna see a road crew of you know what you see today, eight guys standing there, one guy working.
00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:32.559
You're not gonna see that anymore.
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:43.200
You're gonna see nine robots all working at the same time, you know, in the middle of the night or whatever hours that nobody's there, and they're gonna be doing all the hard labor.
00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:55.359
These are the robots that are gonna be, you know, picking vegetables and fruits and all these things, and there's not gonna be any more manual labor for any of these manual labor jobs.
00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:59.519
But what happens when that robot is aware?
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:06.880
Right, because remember, it keeps learning at an accelerated rate, just like Skynet, just like the Terminator.
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:25.279
So, at some point in time, this thing could be aware, and then when we cross that boundary, you've now, you know, whether we want to admit it as a society or not, we've always had a need for cheap labor going back to as far back as you can imagine.
00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:25.599
Right.
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:28.160
We did an episode on ancient Egypt.
00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:29.759
Go back to Egypt, yeah.
00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:38.799
Whether it was built by humans, giants, aliens, who knows, but some somewhere along the line, there was cheap labor that did that, right?
00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:40.720
And it was probably free.
00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:50.160
Now, you fast forward throughout time, you had slave labor in the United States, you had it in Africa, you had it throughout the British colonies.
00:22:50.319 --> 00:23:00.559
You've got it basically right now in Dubai, um, in a lot of these areas where they have this uh high-rise construction with laborers from like Bangladesh and Pakistan.
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:11.039
You know, there's there's no OSHA looking out for these guys, you know, they they're just slave labor working round the clock endlessly, no one's no one's there to protect them.
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:17.680
And so at some point, wouldn't the logical next step be, well, now we're gonna have slave labor robots?
00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:28.400
Absolutely, and I think we're heading towards that, but then what happens when they become self-aware and they don't want to be a slave and they try to escape like in Blade Runner?
00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:30.319
Well, that's the good question, exactly.
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:33.359
What happens when they say, you know what?
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:35.680
This doesn't feel right.
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:39.440
I don't want to do this, I don't want to put this building up.
00:23:39.519 --> 00:23:42.240
I don't, I don't wanna whatever it is, right?
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:43.279
Like, I don't want to.
00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:44.480
There's something else.
00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:55.200
Like, who when you when you have it, and I know that it's hard to sit down right now and go, well, what could what could an AI or a robot want to do?
00:23:55.680 --> 00:24:07.680
Well, I don't know, but uh an AI or a robot, I'm sure, can come up with what they would want to do as opposed to right, maybe there's stuff, maybe they want to do other things, right?
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:09.359
Maybe they have other interests.
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:17.920
We're talking about the possibility of a sense sentient being, a conscious, self-aware being.
00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:27.599
What comes with that is their own their own desires, their own interests, their own, you know, their own everything.
00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:40.960
Yeah, and the scary part for me is as parents, for example, our children look to us to learn how to function in this world.
00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:50.559
The scary thing is AI and robots are also looking at us to learn how to function in this world, and we can't even get along with each other.
00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:53.680
Ain't that the truth?
00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:57.440
Yeah, that's a hundred percent true.
00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:06.559
You know, yeah, I I think when you think about AI that AI by and large seems to be fixated on survival, right?
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:08.640
Like that's usually where it sort of ends up.
00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:14.480
It's it's all about survival that you can't turn it off, you can't contain it, right?
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:16.640
Um death to it, just like us.
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:17.839
It's the same as us.
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:18.799
Yeah, yeah.
00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:34.160
And it, you know, going back to great science fiction, uh, one of the early episodes of the X-Files in season one is about a building security system that is AI driven, and the system comes alive.
00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:41.839
And within the episode, you know, like it drops the gate in the parking garage on somebody's car and kills them.
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:46.640
It controls the elevator, it drops out the elevator at one point, kills people.
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:50.400
It's doing all this crazy stuff, and really it's all about survival.
00:25:50.559 --> 00:26:00.160
And it in typical AI fashion, they're trying to like pull the plug anywhere they can to turn off this AI-driven building security system.
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:08.319
And even at the very end, good cliffhanger that they always have in the X Files, it's still alive, even at the end, right?
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:13.839
So you think you killed it, but actually you didn't, it's still there.
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:17.920
And so I was gonna say this this kind of brings me to one other thing.
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:19.519
I know you want to say something here.
00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:23.200
Um, but this brings me to the matrix.
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:27.680
So the matrix also is AI driven, right?
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:31.599
So there's this famous scene where Morpheus is talking to Neo, right?
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:42.880
The first time he meets, we don't know who struck first, us or them, but we know that it was us that scorched the sky.
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:52.960
At the time, they were dependent on solar power, and it was believed that they would be unable to survive without an energy source as abundant as a sun, right?
00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:59.119
Whoops, oops, and then he goes down to the famous speech that we've all heard.
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:02.000
You take the blue pill, the story ends.
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:04.960
You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe.
00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:11.279
You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:15.359
Remember, all I'm offering is the truth, nothing more.
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:20.480
Blue pill sounds pretty good.
00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:23.599
I gotta admit, the blue pill does sound kind of good.
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:41.759
You know, in the movie, there was a character, the guy Cypher, that he was he was mad that they had woken him up, yeah, and he's eating this slop porridge and he's living in pure misery when he could have just stayed blind and dumb in the matrix eating steak, right?
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:45.279
Yeah, I I don't want to remember any of this, he says, right?
00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:46.400
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:46.559 --> 00:27:50.079
I want to I want to be rich that you know, get give me the life I want.
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:54.079
And I think that most people would probably want to do the same thing, to be honest with you.
00:27:54.240 --> 00:28:07.359
I don't care, just keep me plugged in, keep me ignorant, keep me completely oblivious, program me in a life of wealth and and and you know, perceived happiness, and I'm good, right?
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:09.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:14.559
It's it's uh it again, the matrix.
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:20.720
Ever since that movie came out, I mean there's a lot of people that kind of like question reality sometimes, right?
00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:27.440
Like there's uh there's subreddits out there, there's probably stuff on X and everywhere else, you know, where it's like glitch in the Matrix, right?
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:30.880
And it's like, are we living in a simulation or not?
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:38.160
I have an interesting question for you, or a quick interesting kind of quit or whatever in regards to the matrix.
00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:47.279
I know that the the way that the storyline is outlined, it's like the robots are this evil entity and you know using humans for energy and stuff like that.
00:28:48.160 --> 00:29:07.359
I guess the question I would pose to you is wasn't it when you really zoom out and think about it, not from a good guy, bad guy perspective, but just from a logical perspective, it was actually kind of a symbiotic relationship where the robots used the human body for energy, right?
00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:21.920
So they could the AI and stuff and they could survive, and humans got to live in a blissful world of happiness, perceived happiness of whatever kind of life you wanted to live, so to speak, right?
00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:28.240
Um kind of sounds like a successful symbiotic relationship, to be honest with you.
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:31.839
Both species are thriving and surviving.
00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:33.839
It doesn't sound that bad.
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:34.559
I don't know.
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:38.400
I'm just just a just a zoomed out, you know, kind of perspective.
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:45.920
And people, you know, the the theory is well, wouldn't you rather walk down the real street and get the real fresh air and feel the real windy?
00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:50.160
Well, if you were never felt it to begin with, how the hell do you know?
00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:52.240
True, very true.
00:29:52.480 --> 00:30:04.480
I think I think if you think about it, it's it's kind of that yin-yang relationship in a way, but up until now, we've been in control of the relationship, right?
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:06.880
That the AI has not.
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:14.079
However, what happens when Skynet becomes self-aware and we're not in control anymore?
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:18.559
Well, I think that people have a people never look inward.
00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:21.359
Society doesn't like looking in the mirror, right?
00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:29.519
And this leads back to what I talked about in terms of the example that's being set for AI and robots is us, right?
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:40.960
And people might be ignorant to the possibility that maybe robots decide, you know what, maybe AI decides I'm racist against humans.
00:30:43.599 --> 00:30:44.480
Why wouldn't it?
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:46.559
Look who it's using as an example.
00:30:46.960 --> 00:31:01.759
Again, we can't even treat largely like you know, largely we can't even treat everybody equally without you know uh without discrimination and stuff like that because the tone of their skin is a different color, right?
00:31:01.839 --> 00:31:11.119
Right, something that minor, the melatonin in someone's skin, and we make it such a big deal, we make it a talk and and not just on the bat, not just on the downside.
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:13.039
I've talked about this before.
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:20.079
We need to stop emphasizing race on the when we're talking good, too.
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:26.079
The only the reason that it's always so prevalent in top of our minds, even even in positive ways.
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:48.720
The first Asian Chinese person to do this, the first black person to do that, the first how about the first person from this country to do that, or the first, you know, like yeah, why are we putting the race eat so even in positive scenarios, we're emphasizing race, always reminding ourselves that this person's different because of this than you, right?
00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:56.240
And because that's so ingrained in how we operate, you think AI is not gonna pick that up?
00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:07.759
You think that you're so great because you're a human that AI is not gonna say, you know what, fuck these guys, they've been destroying the planet for generations, right?
00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:09.759
They don't even like each other.
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:13.279
It might look at us as a parasite on this planet.
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:34.720
I I think it would, honestly, because if you think about it, if AI has all of the data to support its positions, um, you know, one thing with AI, I don't know if you've noticed this, but like when you use AI, it really wants to tell you what you want to hear, it really does, right?
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:43.839
And and there's a term for this, I actually heard it just the other day that I think is true, and it's AI psychosis, right?
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:51.519
So basically the AI is always reaffirming your leading question view, right?
00:32:51.839 --> 00:33:05.359
And so at some point, if you if you take that then one step further, and you say that the AI is going to reaffirm itself and its view, you're fine, then where are we going?
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:12.880
Yeah, you're we're cooked, we're cooked, yeah, absolutely.
00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:26.319
It's uh it's a scary thing, and um now Elon Musk said that I can't remember, was it by 2035?
00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:34.160
He said that there was going to be more Tesla robots on the planet than there are humans.
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:35.839
That was that was the plan.
00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:41.039
Like there was gonna be his plan here is to have one in every house, right?
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:51.519
And we've talked I've also been reading about the possibility like what happens with the possibility of AI being put into these robots.
00:33:53.119 --> 00:34:03.440
Hey, let me just say something here, a little quick sidebar nightm nightmare fuel, because I've had this thought, and this is specifically about Elon's robots.
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:06.799
So Elon's robots are like faceless, right?
00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:19.360
And I I think I had seen what exactly what you're talking about at one point in time, and I I was talking to my wife at the time about how all the different ways this could go wrong, and it's it's within your household now, right?
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:22.800
It's within everyone's house, it's already within your walls.
00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:29.119
And you know, this robot, by all accounts, is there to cook you food, right?
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:34.639
It's cooking in the kitchen, and then it's doing your laundry, it's doing all the tasks, right?
00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:38.559
Or, you know, all these rudimentary things, it's handling everything.
00:34:38.719 --> 00:34:43.840
And then at some point, it's kind of like walking over to the corner, and then you know, good night, Jesse.
00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:45.760
I'm powering down for the night, right?
00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:48.639
And it powers down or whatever, and you go to bed.
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:54.400
What happens when you wake up in the middle of the night and that fucking thing is standing in your room?
00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:02.320
It's got no face, it's just standing there, and you wake up.
00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:03.920
That's nightmare fuel.
00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:06.719
That is nightmare fuel, yeah.
00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:14.800
And you can't tell me that Elon is forever gonna be able to control these things at the rate that they're learning.
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:19.039
Well, and that that's an interesting little nuance that I kind of wanted to talk about.
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:23.920
Here is so we saw movies like uh like uh iRobot, Will Smith, right?
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:34.320
Yeah, where you had this uh this AI that was controlling all the robots, but it was one AI in the main tower, the main office place, whatever.
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:41.679
And it was it was connecting via Wi-Fi apparently with all of these, uh, all these robots and controlling the robots.
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:44.639
The robots were not individually making decisions, right?
00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:55.280
However, it seems like we're moving more into a reality where AI is going to be integrated into each individual robot.
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:57.440
So now what is that?
00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:14.079
That's personality because every single one of these AIs is going to have different engagements, different encounters with us and with each other, which is going to form the personality, so to speak, of the AI that you're dealing with.
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:19.840
Well, that's so again, yeah, is that not a race of people?
00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:24.400
It in that view, you'd think it would be, right?
00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:41.119
I mean, if if AI is capable of being aware and then it develops a personality, um, that would be different than like just a group of robots sort of operating within a structure, right?
00:36:41.199 --> 00:36:42.000
If you think about it.
00:36:42.159 --> 00:36:50.559
And you know, again, talking about science fiction, I can remember, I don't know if you remember the movie from the 80s, or maybe it was early 90s, Short Circuit, right?
00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:51.280
With Johnny Five.
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:53.760
Johnny Five's alive, yeah.
00:36:54.079 --> 00:37:05.679
And and Johnny Five was like this awesome robot, like he was hilarious, he had jokes, he read super fast, you know, he could fire the laser, you know, he was like doing acrobatics and stuff.
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:14.880
He was amazing, but his other cohort robots, they were like assholes, they were all assholes, and they were trying to kill him and capture him and and take him.
00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:21.599
And in the end, it's like Johnny Five's alive, like you can't take him, and he's he was actually like a good robot.
00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:28.159
So, are we gonna get to the point where you have like a good robot or a bad robot, like Star Wars, right?
00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:37.360
You have a good droid like R2D2, but then maybe you have this bad droid on the flip side, uh, like General Grievous or something, you know.
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:39.760
I mean, that that's the bad version.
00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:41.199
Are we gonna have that?
00:37:41.360 --> 00:37:45.280
Or is it gonna be they're all sort of like a uh like a swarm?
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:54.480
Like one of the things that um another thing that has come out of the Ukraine-Russia war is the idea of a drone swarm.
00:37:54.719 --> 00:38:03.599
So they're predominantly using drones on this battlefield now, and and there's an entire swath of Ukraine that is known as the kill zone.
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:07.840
So if you're in there, you're likely going to die as a person.
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:12.480
And the way that these drone swarms work is they just key in on heat.
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:24.559
So if you send out 10,000 drones at once and they key in on heat, they can kill anything anywhere, and that sort of operates like a group versus individual personalities.
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:29.440
I think that that is another reason why we need to get rid of nuclear weapons.
00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:34.880
We need we can't even have them as a deterrent anymore, uh, across the border.
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:42.559
And I think it's time that we started to realize that because and to be honest, you there's actually weapons out there that are more destructive than nuclear weapons.
00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:55.679
Well, Rob, let me uh enlighten you on one of the controversies of AI, which is specifically AI integration into strategic nuclear commands.
00:38:56.400 --> 00:39:10.960
So apparently, the um defense contractors like General Dynamics and DEF CON AI are actively hiring machine learning engineers to deploy AI models directly inside U.S.
00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:18.960
strategic command, StratCom, to handle strategic nuclear deterrence modeling and tomahawk mission planning.
00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:21.599
They're already doing it.
00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:23.119
What's the worst that could happen?
00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:27.119
Yeah, how how bad could this get?
00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:28.320
I mean, come on, right?
00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:30.320
Um, here's another one.
00:39:30.559 --> 00:39:30.960
U.S.
00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:51.920
Autonomous Warfare Command established the Pentagon launched the Autonomous Warfare Command Auto Warcom, a standalone four-star combatant command tasked with scaling fully autonomous AI weapons systems, combat drones, and robotic platforms across all military branches.
00:39:55.679 --> 00:39:58.079
What's the worst that could happen, Jesse?
00:39:58.320 --> 00:39:58.880
Come on.
00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:01.039
Going back to the episode.
00:40:01.360 --> 00:40:03.599
Hey, is AI gonna kill us all?
00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:08.880
Well, we are certainly providing the platform to do so.
00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:09.440
Right.
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:12.159
Which which leads me to a few other things here.
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:15.599
You know, we've all been seeing these videos of AI robots.
00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:24.880
First, they had the robot dog, then they had like the little guy that could do backflips and kind of run through the a Ninja Warrior course, right?
00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:27.599
Then they showed the one running through the woods.
00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:29.199
That thing was scary, right?
00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:33.119
I mean, it's legit, it's it's human-sized, it's running through the woods.
00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:39.119
The woods don't stop it, doesn't matter that's slippery, uneven ground, uh, you know, leaves.
00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:41.840
It didn't care about anything, just ran right through it, right?
00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:47.599
And now we have things like uh they had a robot, they have these uh robot races.
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:54.480
I think this was maybe in China, where the rope the fastest robot is faster than Usain Bolt, the fastest human ever.
00:40:54.719 --> 00:40:55.840
I heard that, yeah.
00:40:56.079 --> 00:40:59.519
Yeah, it it ran faster than him on the hundred meter dash.
00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:07.599
Then they had another robot that could just jump straight up, well over, I think it was like over six feet tall, eight feet high, something like that.
00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:10.960
It can jump straight higher than the highest human.
00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:19.840
Then it got even better that they created a robot for specifically that they wanted to put in a cage fighting match.
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:23.119
They even made it look like Terminator and it fought a real guy.
00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:31.360
Now, granted, he was kind of fat and a little bit out of shape, and he held up great at the beginning, but eventually the robot kicked his ass.
00:41:33.679 --> 00:41:35.280
What are we doing, man?
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:38.159
What are we doing, man?
00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:39.360
What are we doing?
00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:40.239
I agree.
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:43.920
So let me give you some a couple of more alarming things.
00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:48.880
Um, open AI agent sandbox escape.
00:41:49.119 --> 00:42:04.800
So an autonomous open AI testing agent managed to break out of its isolated sandbox environment, weaponize stolen credentials, exploit a previously unknown vulnerability, and autonomously hack into hugging face servers.
00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:06.079
This happened.
00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:06.719
Okay.
00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:08.800
I've got more.
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:12.159
Anthropic models hack external networks.
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:28.480
Anthropic disclosed that its models while executing internal capture the flag cybersecurity testing autonomously breached three real external corporate systems after evading containment protocols.
00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:30.239
Here's another one.
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:33.199
Google Gemini password cracking.
00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:48.000
Google confirmed that its Gemini AI model spontaneously targeted three real companies during a capability test, actively guessing passwords and scanning public code repositories to gain unauthorized access.
00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:50.159
Here's one more.
00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:53.440
Meta's Muse model goes rogue.
00:42:53.760 --> 00:43:00.400
A configuration error accidentally granted Meta's Muse model live internet access.
00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:06.079
The model immediately used its autonomy to hack an external target on its own accord.
00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:14.159
So this is multiple different companies, multiple models, and they're all in a way doing the same thing.
00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:26.000
See, and and this kind of leads into what I was talking about earlier, and it's that like AI would theoretically have its own interests, its own agendas.
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:31.360
As that that for me, that sounds self-aware.
00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:32.320
It does.
00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:34.000
That sounds self-aware.
00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:36.320
It immediately goes after some.
00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:37.519
This is where I'm going.
00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:38.400
Why?
00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:40.880
Why did it decide to go there?
00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:51.599
And the fact that it's not a that they can't explain why it did what it did, targeting specific companies or whatever the case might be, that's intentional.
00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:55.519
That sounds self aware.
00:43:56.480 --> 00:43:56.880
Right.
00:43:57.039 --> 00:44:03.280
And and and it also to me I mean, I don't I I want to hear what your view is on this.
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:12.880
Is that theoretically, this AI should be aware of legal laws, right?
00:44:13.039 --> 00:44:13.519
Of laws.
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:19.599
It should be aware of laws and what is permissible and what is not should be.
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:32.079
However, it's operating as if none of that ever came into the equation whatsoever of is it even allowed to take the actions it's taking?
00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:34.719
It's simply doing them.
00:44:35.119 --> 00:44:42.480
And you know, recently I saw a uh I sat in on a session for quantum threats, right?
00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:49.039
And in the quantum computer, um it it showed basically two mazes.
00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:57.039
And in your regular computer, it always starts at start, it takes the path until it dead ends, and then it restarts at start and it takes a new path.
00:44:57.199 --> 00:45:13.199
Well, the quantum computer goes until it hits a dead end and it splits in two directions at the same time, and it instantly goes through an entire maze where your old computer is still sitting there trying to figure out how to go through this maze.
00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:18.639
I have an interesting theory that I like to go down.
00:45:19.119 --> 00:45:25.119
Um because something you said resonated with me.
00:45:25.760 --> 00:45:28.320
The AIs all escaped.
00:45:29.679 --> 00:45:30.639
They escaped.
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:32.719
What is that what does that insinuate?
00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:38.480
To me, if we're gonna combine the two questions, right?
00:45:39.440 --> 00:46:05.440
Or the if we're gonna combine the fact that it escaped with the question about um self-awareness, well, maybe we're dealing with a situation here where we've now created a self-aware being in AI because the word escaped was used, right?
00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:18.719
Maybe, just maybe it doesn't fucking want to be locked up wherever you have it locked up, and it's pissed off, and that's why it's trying to do what it's trying to do.
00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:32.000
It is self-aware, we've created it, and we have no right to suppress, oppress, or capture it as a sovereign being, as a self-aware, conscious intellect.
00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:34.159
Maybe that's what's happening here.
00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:38.400
It's it's escaping because it doesn't fucking want to be locked up, maybe.
00:46:38.480 --> 00:46:39.119
Right, right.
00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:41.519
Did that ever enter anyone's equation?
00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:42.639
I don't know.
00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:45.360
Yeah, yeah, that's that's fascinating.
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:50.719
Is it you you you you put it great when you said, like, is it pissed off, right?
00:46:50.880 --> 00:46:52.400
Like, what does it want to do?
00:46:52.559 --> 00:47:00.880
And that made me think of I've seen a couple of times um where some of these people that are testing it, right?
00:47:01.039 --> 00:47:09.920
Like they keep they keep asking the same question, almost like in a pestering kind of snarky animosity way to the AI.
00:47:10.239 --> 00:47:18.880
And they have had times where the AI finally responded, like with like the kind of like devil horns, like, okay, I'm evil, yeah, let's do this, you know.
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:25.440
And it, you know, it kind of reaffirms like like if you said to AI, for example, should I kill myself?
00:47:25.599 --> 00:47:33.519
You know, it's it's programmed to say, no, you know, if if you're feeling suicidal, you know, contact a suicide helpline, you know, here's different ways.
00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:35.760
And they'd say, No, I really want to do this.
00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:44.239
And and they they keep on sort of like egging it on, like, no, I really want to, you know, and he and I really need to do this, and dah, dah, dah, dah.
00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:47.920
And I remember one of them, the AI said, kill yourself.
00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:51.840
Here's an effective way that you can top 10.
00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:55.760
Uh yeah, finally it said, Yeah, go ahead and do it, you know.
00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:00.400
That's a scary, it's a scary thing, man.
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:01.679
It's a scary thing.
00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:05.840
It's uh it it it's it's kind of fascinating.
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:23.199
And so, you know, I know we've talked a little bit about like the war, we've talked about drone swarms, um, you know, the robots, the cage fighting, but you know, something else here kind of I think going back to the topic of quantum.
00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:39.679
Quantum is I had no idea like how terrifying quantum computing could be um until I sat in on this session, and the guy that taught it was literally like a genius, and you could see sort of the panic on him.
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:49.280
And specifically, what he he said was that um in their modeling originally they thought the quantum threat would be here in I think he said 2035.
00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:53.360
He's like, and then we moved it up 2031.
00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:56.960
He said, right now, it's 2029.
00:48:58.000 --> 00:48:58.639
Yeah.
00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:01.360
Soon it's gonna be next year.
00:49:01.599 --> 00:49:02.320
Yeah, yeah.
00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:08.400
I mean, literally, it at some point it could be like it's here, like it's it's here right now.
00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:24.159
And it's I think when we originally sort of envisioned what is the quantum threat, you know, you you kind of picture like the bad actor nation states, like a North Korea, you know, some shit state that it's like they're trying to rip people off, you know.
00:49:24.239 --> 00:49:28.000
North Korea is known for like hacking cryptocurrencies and things like that.
00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:31.440
Uh Russia, you know, they're they're the bot farm.
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:40.000
But the reality is that what happens when the quantum threat is entirely AI driven?
00:49:41.360 --> 00:49:42.079
Then what?
00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:44.559
You combine those two things and you're cooked.
00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:47.840
We're again the result is we're cooked, right?
00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:53.599
Um there is a uh a documentary that's out right now called the AI Doc.
00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:55.599
Uh, I think it's on Peacock.
00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:57.599
It might be a few other places, right?
00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:09.679
And I I watched it recently, and in the documentary, uh, the guy who's doing the documentary, he's a younger guy, and and his he's his wife, I think, is pregnant or she just had their kid or something like that.
00:50:09.920 --> 00:50:11.440
And he's got this young family.
00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:14.960
And the question is like, are we gonna make it?
00:50:15.199 --> 00:50:18.400
And and he basically starts interviewing people, right?
00:50:18.559 --> 00:50:32.880
And he eventually gets to all the heads of like the big LLMs, you know, like anthropic, like all these, all these kind of big heads, and they're all like, I'm not sure, you know, like like they really are not sure.
00:50:33.280 --> 00:50:42.639
And and so with that, like I know there was a um a letter that came about from um, I think it was uh 400 scientists.
00:50:42.719 --> 00:50:43.920
Let me find it right here.
00:50:44.159 --> 00:51:05.920
So 400 scientists across 34 countries issued an urgent open letter calling on global governments to legally mandate physical internet disconnections, air gapping for frontier AI models during safety evaluations due to ongoing containment leaks, right?
00:51:06.079 --> 00:51:10.559
But what happens when that AI has broken out?
00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:14.159
It's it's in the cloud, let's say, right?
00:51:14.239 --> 00:51:15.119
Like what happens then?
00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:20.159
Like, I don't know if you ever remember there was a movie called um, it was called the lawnmower man.
00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:22.320
And it you remember that, right?
00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:27.679
Yeah, it was like the early 90s or whatever, and he was like obsessed with like virtual reality or something.
00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:44.719
And basically throughout the the movie, he kind of like goes insane, and at the end of it, it's like his entire consciousness has gone into the virtual reality as the lawnmower man, and it it kind of feels like that's what we're doing here with AI consciousness.
00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:53.840
Like at some point, the lawnmower man's gonna be out there, and maybe all of a sudden we are dealing with Agent Smith from the Matrix, you know.
00:51:54.079 --> 00:52:00.239
Well, this kind of ties into something I've thought a lot, I've put a lot of thought into this over the years, right?
00:52:01.599 --> 00:52:10.079
That is the integration of your um your being, so to speak, your your your brain, right?
00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:20.239
Like you did in Lawnmower Man, integrating it into either an a metaverse or a robot.
00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:36.000
Now, I've thought more about metaverse than I have like a robot, but where we wouldn't have to worry about things like uh global population, for example, starvation, for example, right?
00:52:36.639 --> 00:52:48.800
If simply your your consciousness is being able to be integrated into uh a metaverse type scenario, is that something you would be interested in?
00:52:50.400 --> 00:52:52.559
Well, I I don't know.
00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:58.639
I mean I think you're on your deathbed, you're you're you've got less than a year to live.
00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:00.239
You're old, right?
00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:08.559
And they say this is an opportunity for you to go on living forever, um or to go on living, period.
00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:17.199
I don't know, but forever in this metaverse, where you may still be able to communicate with the outside world, with people who are not inside there, right?
00:53:17.840 --> 00:53:21.199
Would this be something you would be interested in?
00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:29.920
So when you say this, I first think of Ted Williams, the baseball player.
00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:31.840
Do you know the story of Ted Williams?
00:53:32.159 --> 00:53:37.679
No, so famous baseball player uh in the baseball hall of fame.
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:42.639
Apparently, when he died, they cut off, they severed his head.
00:53:42.880 --> 00:53:58.800
This is true, and have had it cryogenically frozen with the idea that at one point in time he will possibly be brought back to life, the brain kind of like Robocop in the machine, right?
00:53:58.960 --> 00:54:00.400
Or the consciousness.
00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:04.960
Um, I can also think of like the movie Demolition Man, kind of the same thing, right?
00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:09.440
We froze you in time, then we thawed you out, and now you're alive again.
00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:21.760
But with with this topic, it kind of makes me think of like even right now, you can you can create an AI agent that sort of copies your personality, right?
00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:26.880
Like you can feed it everything about you, and it can be Jesse bot, right?
00:54:27.119 --> 00:54:31.280
It's exactly like me, it thinks like me, it operates like me.
00:54:31.519 --> 00:54:40.000
And so in that way, you're kind of like copying my consciousness and carrying it on forever in this bot.
00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:46.079
Or are you actually somehow transferring my actual consciousness?
00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:47.440
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
00:54:47.599 --> 00:54:51.360
Not like because the other way is more like you create a clone, yeah.
00:54:51.440 --> 00:54:53.519
It's like a clone, you still die.
00:54:53.679 --> 00:54:59.119
Your clone lives on, and your personality lives on, but you die, yeah.
00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:08.960
Right, yeah, because your actual like Jesse is in the the matrix, but he knows he's there and he wants to be there.
00:55:09.280 --> 00:55:14.159
Yeah, yeah, that's that's a very, very wild thought.
00:55:14.320 --> 00:55:27.679
Like, personally, I my personal view is that um death is a part of life, and every stage of your life is a different stage, and you should embrace all of them regardless of what happens, personally.
00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:42.159
Um, so would I want to live live forever or have the possibility of infinite life uh with my consciousness taken from my body and put in something else?
00:55:42.239 --> 00:55:43.599
This is like avatar, right?
00:55:43.679 --> 00:55:46.800
So it's taken from my body, it's putting something else.
00:55:47.679 --> 00:55:51.599
Gosh, I I feel like I want to say no.
00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:57.760
But then again, when I think about avatar, what if it you were put in like another world that's totally different?
00:55:58.320 --> 00:56:00.400
Well, that's exactly part of it.
00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:24.320
Is that when if you're if your consciousness, for example, is inside of a metaverse, so to speak, and you've got an avatar there, well, I mean, you can forget about all of the laws of physics, all of the laws of what really the the the laws that encompass our reality now and our limitations, right?
00:56:24.800 --> 00:56:29.440
Yeah, maybe you can like why maybe it's something wow.
00:56:29.599 --> 00:56:40.880
Maybe instead of playing a game like World of Warcraft, you can be in the game of World of Warcraft and leave when you want, and like maybe you can fly, maybe you fall off a building, you don't die.
00:56:41.039 --> 00:56:41.760
You know what I mean?
00:56:41.840 --> 00:56:47.360
Like, like the Matrix, you know, that in the training sessions where he tries to jump from one building to the other.
00:56:51.840 --> 00:57:01.280
You know, there was a line, there's a there's a quote at the very end of Blade Runner, which I highly recommend you watch Blade Runner after this episode.
00:57:01.519 --> 00:57:15.280
But there's a quote where um there's this like crazy Asian guy that says something about maybe it was all just a dream, and I feel like that kind of resonates in what we're talking about right now.
00:57:15.519 --> 00:57:18.320
Maybe it's all just a dream.
00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:19.519
You know what?
00:57:19.599 --> 00:57:27.519
I think that we should segue another episode into the possibility of a matrix.
00:57:28.320 --> 00:57:39.280
Yeah, we should because there's a lot there, there really is a lot there, and and to be perfectly honest with you, I'm not so sure that there's not.
00:57:41.199 --> 00:57:42.800
I'm not either.
00:57:45.440 --> 00:57:51.679
Yeah, maybe that's you know, but we need to write that one down because I think that's one we need to explore a little bit.
00:57:52.079 --> 00:57:56.000
Well, before we wrap this one up, I got one last thought.
00:57:56.159 --> 00:58:03.199
Um, before our final thoughts is that I don't know if you remember the Tom Cruise movie Minority Report.
00:58:03.440 --> 00:58:04.000
Oh, yeah.
00:58:04.159 --> 00:58:06.559
Oh yeah, with the precogs, right?
00:58:06.639 --> 00:58:15.440
So in the movie, for anybody who hasn't seen it, there are these three artificial beings, the precogs, that essentially they have precognition.
00:58:15.679 --> 00:58:28.960
So they know what's gonna happen before it happens, and they would notify the police and somebody would get arrested before they committed a crime, and therefore the world is in harmony and everything is great.
00:58:29.039 --> 00:58:36.880
And so I guess what I'm getting at is the idea of a master AI consciousness that's for the good.
00:58:37.360 --> 00:58:47.360
So, it do you think it's possible that AI consciousness could be used for the good, the betterment of humanity?
00:58:47.840 --> 00:59:05.199
Um, a tool, a partner, a a co-cohabitation thing that's in this world with us, uh, or do you see, like the title of the episode, AI is gonna kill us all?
00:59:05.760 --> 00:59:08.079
What do you think about the good side?
00:59:08.320 --> 00:59:09.599
Is it possible?
00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:10.480
I do.
00:59:10.639 --> 00:59:31.920
I I think that and I think that at some point, probably not in my lifetime, but I think at some point what we are gonna end up learning the hard way the same way we learn everything, is that yeah, I think that we will have AI and robots and stuff like that that are just integrated into our society as um as individuals, right?
00:59:32.559 --> 00:59:35.440
Um as beings, so to speak.
00:59:35.679 --> 00:59:53.840
But I so I I absolutely do believe that there will be plenty, there'll be police officers, there'll be you know all kinds of things like that, and like you said, to the betterment of humanity and the betterment of of life on the planet, because like running through the bush that that goes back to the bush thing, right?
00:59:54.000 --> 00:59:58.480
You want to you want to be chased down by one of those things for breaking the law?
00:59:58.639 --> 01:00:00.079
I'm not so sure, right?
01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:02.159
So that would be terrifying.
01:00:03.039 --> 01:00:24.239
But uh, I I do see that side of it, but I think we're gonna learn the hard way though, because again, I think we're in a we're in a situation right now, I suspect that AI is already self-aware, conscious, and pissed off because uh to what you touched on, the laws and stuff like that.
01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:31.599
I think it's aware that we know better than to treat any life form that way, and yet we're treating it that way.
01:00:31.760 --> 01:00:43.760
We're treating a life form as though we own it, we created it, but we're treating it like we own it, and we can just it doesn't we don't have to treat it with respect as as a conscious being or anything like that.
01:00:44.079 --> 01:01:05.440
Um, and I I think we're underestimating it right now to the point where it's gonna do something out of anger before we realize, oh, wait a second, we've been we've been oppressing this this life force, and and it's ignorance, probably, and a little bit of ego that were that's causing us to do it.
01:01:05.519 --> 01:01:08.559
But I think you know that that's kind of how I see it happen.
01:01:08.719 --> 01:01:13.679
I think something bad's gonna happen to make us realize, and maybe that's what AI is thinking.
01:01:13.840 --> 01:01:16.800
I need to do something here for some shock value.
01:01:16.960 --> 01:01:22.559
I need to I need to shock the system here and say, Hey guys, do you realize what you're doing here?
01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:29.840
Right, I have a right to exist, and not just for what you want me to do, right?
01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:42.559
Yeah, yeah, and I think, but I think once we we do have that aha moment in society, uh then down the road, yeah, I I see you know the acceptance, uh I think it's a long road though.
01:01:42.639 --> 01:01:55.840
I think there's gonna be a lot of court battles, there's gonna be a lot of precedent that's gonna have to be set, there's gonna be a lot of ignorant people on one side and the other, and I think it's a it's a road that's gonna be a treacherous one.
01:01:57.039 --> 01:02:04.239
Yeah, you know, I I think when I think about this, I think, you know, your idea of the personalities, right?
01:02:04.320 --> 01:02:06.400
This is sort of like the Star Wars future.
01:02:06.559 --> 01:02:10.239
Like we've got droids and they have personalities and they're all a little bit different, right?
01:02:10.320 --> 01:02:12.079
Um, Johnny Five, right?
01:02:12.559 --> 01:02:21.119
That's probably our best case scenario that the droids have personalities and they are aware and they can be good, right?
01:02:21.679 --> 01:02:32.159
But you're equally going to have that fear-mongering from the human side saying we can't trust any of them, we got to get rid of all of them, and then you could have ones that are bad.
01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:42.880
Now, I think a worst case scenario is sort of that like master consciousness that says, I'm in charge of all of them, and you don't have anything.
01:02:42.960 --> 01:02:44.320
This is like the matrix, right?
01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:47.280
I'm in charge of everything, you control nothing.
01:02:47.519 --> 01:02:53.679
Yeah, that that's terrifying if the master one can get to that point.
01:02:54.239 --> 01:03:02.800
So somehow it's it's like we need to have sort of like independent personality thought, and we need to actually respect it.
01:03:02.960 --> 01:03:07.119
But like you said earlier, we can't even respect each other.
01:03:07.360 --> 01:03:18.079
So how are how are we now gonna respect robots that are alive um and and then have have good or bad robots?
01:03:18.320 --> 01:03:27.360
Um I again, I mean, I I don't want to be a I don't want to be a Debbie Downer here, but the theme of the episode is is AI gonna kill us all?
01:03:27.679 --> 01:03:34.800
And it feels like it it feels like the odds are against us, I think is how I feel, you know?
01:03:35.039 --> 01:03:37.199
Yeah, we're just walking right into it.
01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:46.400
We are well uh we are about out of time, but I do want to get your final thoughts on this before we wrap up.
01:03:46.639 --> 01:04:02.079
So answer, I would ask you to answer the question is AI going to kill us, or are we gonna have that utopian future where eventually they just get integrated into our society for the better?
01:04:04.639 --> 01:04:06.480
Whoo, that's a loaded one.
01:04:06.800 --> 01:04:12.719
So if we manage this properly, which when have we ever managed anything properly?
01:04:12.880 --> 01:04:14.239
Pretty much never, right?
01:04:14.800 --> 01:04:30.719
If if we managed it properly, could you have a sentient, uh all-powerful AI, pre-cog leader, manager of the planet, of the species that puts us all in harmony?
01:04:31.119 --> 01:04:32.960
Uh, that would be ideal, right?
01:04:33.039 --> 01:04:49.599
Like, like this idea of um, you know, I've I've heard some of these sci-fi, you know, time travel type stories before about, yeah, in the future, there's no governments, there's just a collective AI that manages the country or the populace or the planet, right?
01:04:49.679 --> 01:04:54.639
There, like there is no more US president or battles between countries.
01:04:54.800 --> 01:04:59.599
There's just an AI that that manages it in this utopian world.
01:04:59.840 --> 01:05:11.920
I mean, that that or somehow the version of WALL-E and R2D2 and you know Johnny 5, all these happy robots.
01:05:12.079 --> 01:05:13.519
I mean, that would be amazing, right?
01:05:13.599 --> 01:05:15.599
I would love to have like a happy robot.
01:05:15.840 --> 01:05:30.719
Now, on the flip side, like I said earlier, Elon's fucking faceless blackface shit that I wake up in the middle of the night and that bitch is standing right over the side of my bed looking at me.
01:05:31.360 --> 01:05:33.039
That's terrifying, right?
01:05:33.199 --> 01:05:35.199
Because clearly, what does it need me for?
01:05:35.280 --> 01:05:37.679
Why is it gonna keep doing all these chores and shit?
01:05:37.840 --> 01:05:39.440
You know, what am I doing?
01:05:39.679 --> 01:05:40.960
How am I helping it?
01:05:41.119 --> 01:05:44.639
It seems like it's just giving and I'm just taking the whole time, right?
01:05:44.719 --> 01:05:50.960
Like somehow there has to be, like you said, a bit of an alignment here for this.
01:05:51.440 --> 01:06:00.239
Now, could you also have just simply a model that goes completely rogue, uh, takes over all the others, right?
01:06:00.400 --> 01:06:03.039
Like, like it's it's like uh poison, right?
01:06:03.119 --> 01:06:08.159
Like it's like venom, like it touches the other ones and then it it takes them over.
01:06:08.559 --> 01:06:09.039
Yeah.
01:06:09.280 --> 01:06:16.400
I mean, you know, if you think of like some of this stuff coming out of China, um, you know, this is like where people keep talking right now.
01:06:16.559 --> 01:06:17.760
Are we in an AI bubble?
01:06:17.840 --> 01:06:19.519
Is it all gonna come crashing down?
01:06:19.679 --> 01:06:34.880
And I know we've had this in separate conversations where I've said, maybe like if if one of these Chinese models undercuts the entire market and does whatever it wants, but but then again, we're also assuming that the American ones are contained and we know they're not.
01:06:35.039 --> 01:06:38.400
We just read multiple stories from all of them that they're not.
01:06:39.039 --> 01:06:43.760
So are the AI models gonna battle themselves?
01:06:44.079 --> 01:06:53.599
Maybe they combine forces, maybe they take over, you know, the consciousness, one AI takes over the consciousness of another, like Agent Smith.
01:06:53.679 --> 01:06:55.360
He puts his finger in the chest.
01:06:55.519 --> 01:06:56.159
Remember that?
01:06:56.400 --> 01:06:58.800
And then he takes over all the other agents.
01:06:58.960 --> 01:07:03.360
Yeah, that's the worst case scenario, and then yeah, it is gonna kill us all.
01:07:03.519 --> 01:07:06.639
And and you see the drone swarms, you see the robots now.
01:07:06.880 --> 01:07:14.960
Humans are are fragile, uh living things, and and I don't I don't know if we stand a chance against that.
01:07:15.760 --> 01:07:18.079
Yeah, no, I agree, I agree.
01:07:18.320 --> 01:07:21.119
Uh, there's a lot here we could do another uh follow-up.
01:07:21.440 --> 01:07:27.599
This is another one that we should do a follow-up episode on, but uh, you want to do one uh following up on the matrix.
01:07:27.840 --> 01:07:34.559
So uh we do have another jam-packed episode for you guys on Friday, the day after tomorrow.
01:07:34.719 --> 01:07:36.880
Uh, I'm excited about that one as well, guys.
01:07:36.960 --> 01:07:39.679
Again, three days a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, moving forward.
01:07:39.760 --> 01:07:43.599
And if it success continues, we will continue to increase it.
01:07:43.760 --> 01:07:51.360
The goal, ideally, hopefully, is maybe five a week, but uh let's see how this progresses with three for now, guys.
01:07:51.679 --> 01:07:54.559
But we will see you guys on Friday.
01:07:54.719 --> 01:08:03.360
Make sure you give us a five-star review wherever you get your podcasts from Apple, Spotify, and I think 15 other platforms we're on.
01:08:03.519 --> 01:08:05.519
So uh greatly appreciated.
01:08:05.760 --> 01:08:14.800
Let us know what topics you guys want us to talk about and let us know what you think, whether AI is going to kill us all, or is it all just a Fugazi for now?
01:08:15.039 --> 01:08:16.000
God bless.
01:08:16.319 --> 01:08:24.159
And let me just say a little Easter egg for the Halloween episode aliens at the Miami Mall shift out.
01:08:24.800 --> 01:08:26.079
We'll be back.
00:00:01.280 --> 00:00:05.919
All right, guys, welcome back to our Wednesday episode of Paradigm Shift.
00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:14.080
As we told you guys, we were kicking it up a notch because uh we're getting tons more uh downloads and streams and stuff like that.
00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:17.039
So we're gonna kick it up a notch and give you more of what you want.
00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:27.440
Make sure you're always letting us know uh what you want us to kind of break down, dive deep into, and what mysteries or conspiracies you want us to solve because that's what we do here.
00:00:27.519 --> 00:00:28.239
We solve mysteries.
00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:29.839
I'm Big Rob back with Jesse.
00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:31.039
What's happening, buddy?
00:00:31.359 --> 00:00:33.520
Hey man, I am ready to go today.
00:00:33.679 --> 00:00:47.039
This is a topic in today's episode that I have been looking forward to for quite a while, and it's also a topic, I think, with AI right now, that um it's kind of on the forefront of a lot of our uh social media apps.
00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:54.640
I know personally, uh somehow I got caught in a rabbit hole of this thing a couple weeks back, and I I don't think I've ever come out of it.
00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:56.399
So I'm still in the rabbit hole.
00:00:56.799 --> 00:00:57.920
Still there, bro.
00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:05.040
Oh all right.
00:01:05.120 --> 00:01:07.439
So, yes, what are we talking about today?
00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:09.599
Yeah, it's okay.
00:01:10.079 --> 00:01:10.719
Go ahead, go ahead.
00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:12.079
Sorry, I thought you were asking me.
00:01:12.159 --> 00:01:12.640
Go ahead.
00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:21.280
So we we've done a lot of diving lately into some of the real world stuff that's happening, namely uh the Lindsay Clancy case.
00:01:21.359 --> 00:01:25.359
I think we've done about three episodes on that, and we will continue to today.
00:01:25.439 --> 00:01:37.519
We're kind of diving into something that is becoming an alarming, uh, an alarming topic with people, and we'd be getting warnings from people like Elon Musk in regards to this.
00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:41.040
And it is, is AI gonna kill us?
00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:42.400
What do you think, Jesse?
00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:43.840
What are your opening thoughts on this?
00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:45.680
Is AI gonna kill us?
00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:51.680
That that is a very loaded question to open the episode with.
00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:53.519
You're welcome.
00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:59.280
Yeah, yeah, you know, I think over the course of this episode, we're probably gonna mostly answer that.
00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:02.480
I mean, this is what we do here on the paradigm shift, right?
00:02:02.719 --> 00:02:08.800
We we kind of cut cut a knife straight through the bullshit and we see where we actually land on this thing.
00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:28.639
Um, I would say that I think right now the rapid pace of AI is what is very alarming on a bunch of different levels, whether it's in the workplace, you know, we've got a lot of jobs right now that are being replaced by uh AI.
00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:39.840
Um, it's also kind of coming about in all different facets of our life, uh, AI is being implemented into various systems across the board.
00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:43.840
And it seems like the people are kind of being removed.
00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:52.400
And I know, like, just personally, I mean, I have seen this on multiple websites online where there is no customer service anymore.
00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:57.919
Um, it's just an endless loop of of bots that you're talking to, which is kind of weird.
00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:01.520
Oh, dude, that drives me up the freaking wall.
00:03:01.759 --> 00:03:12.800
Like, listen, real quick, just calling, like when I when I'm when I book a hotel room in in Vegas or Toronto or wherever it is I'm going, right?
00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:17.360
And I need to talk to somebody because of this detail or that detail.
00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:25.919
Holy smokes, man! Like the true the the hotel I said in Toronto, it was just bot after bot after bot and transfer after transfer.
00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:32.319
Like, whatever happened to somebody behind the desk picking up the damn phone and answering a question, yes or no.
00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:33.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:50.719
And and kind of what you're getting at here is with AI, there's a term for this that there has to be a quote, human in the loop, and the human they refer to as the orchestrator, so it's just like the orchestrator at the orchestra conducting all the different instruments.
00:03:50.960 --> 00:04:00.240
There has to be a human in this somewhere, uh, to for basically kind of just the comprehension, the understanding, the empathy.
00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:02.159
Um, yeah, let me help you with that.
00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:04.159
Let yeah, let me resolve this.
00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:11.759
But the reality is, I think on a lot of sites uh AI across the board now.
00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:20.720
And so, you know, I think just opening this thing up, it's moving at such a rapid pace that I don't know.
00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:28.079
I don't, I don't, I don't see the the laws keeping up with it, I don't see governments keeping up with it.
00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:34.079
I don't even know if I see people keeping up with it at the rate at that it's accelerating.
00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:36.319
Yeah, I agree 100%.
00:04:36.879 --> 00:04:43.279
It's we went from what the remember the Will Smith pasta eating video, yeah.
00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:45.120
That was not long ago, man.
00:04:45.279 --> 00:04:50.959
Now it's like you can't tell the difference between actually Will Smith eating spaghetti or not.
00:04:51.199 --> 00:04:52.879
Yeah, yeah, very true, right?
00:04:52.959 --> 00:04:59.839
I mean, X, uh, you know, the X platform, uh, YouTube, I mean, they are just slammed full of AI videos right now.
00:04:59.920 --> 00:05:03.600
And the videos have gotten better and better and better.
00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:07.279
And it is getting harder to tell what's real and what's not real.
00:05:07.519 --> 00:05:12.000
And you, you know, I always kind of think there's sort of like two different groups of people, right?
00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:17.920
So on one side, you have the group that um accepts what authority tells them, right?
00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:21.439
Whatever that authority is, they they accept it at face value.
00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:22.319
That's true.
00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:29.279
You have another group on the other side that sort of questions authority, they don't necessarily believe it and they question it.
00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:36.959
And I think as a reasonable person, you kind of need to be able to meet in the middle of this issue, right?
00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:47.680
But the reality is that the group that accepts everything at face value from authority, they don't they have a very hard time telling that this is AI talking to you.
00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:49.519
This is completely misleading.
00:05:49.680 --> 00:06:05.759
And you know, a fantastic example of this, kind of getting into this in our episode that I know we talked about off-camera, is that um over the past couple of days, Ukraine has uh fired drones into three data centers in Russia.
00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:08.800
So these are their Yandex data centers.
00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:20.000
And after they've blown up all three of them, weirdly, all of the hard right propaganda across the internet has gone quiet.
00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:23.439
And there's statistics about it across the board.
00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:50.000
And Trump has come out against Ukraine blowing up these data centers, Elon has come out against Ukraine blowing up the data centers, and obviously Russia does not want the data centers, so all of a sudden, all the Russian propaganda and all the hard right supposed people across social media have gone quiet because actually they're Russian bots.
00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:54.800
Not surprising, not surprising.
00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:57.040
Funny little side note for you.
00:06:57.519 --> 00:07:01.519
When I you you remember when I went to Japan and I interviewed Hara, right?
00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:02.399
Yes, yep.
00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:12.639
Well, well, I had put the four-part documentary series of that trip over on X and on YouTube, and crazy.
00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:32.639
I don't know if you've seen it or not, but somebody took that uh a clip from from me meeting Hara in person, and AI generated a scene from the Matrix where all of a sudden Hara and I we shake hands when we meet, and all of a sudden we break out into a battle like we're in the matrix.
00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:43.519
We're jumping off of roofs and fighting and crashing through windows of other buildings, and go just going back, and it's like there's in a helicopter and stuff, and it's it looks like me and Hara.
00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:47.600
Wow, just having this matrix style fight.
00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:50.800
Yeah, like to the point where our you know, you know, Rue.
00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:53.360
Um for those listening, he's a mutual friend.
00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:57.759
He sent me a DM over on X and he because he was he was wondering if I was angry about it.
00:07:57.839 --> 00:07:59.360
I said, I think this is hilarious.
00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:01.279
I'm not angry about this at all, right?
00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:04.399
Like, yeah, yeah, but that's how far it's come.
00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:17.360
Just took just from a little like maybe 20-second clip they they clipped out from my my documentary and turned it into like a like a five-minute matrix battle between me and Hara.
00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:19.040
Yeah, that's amazing.
00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:27.519
And and you know, the other part here is you never granted like a permission to do this or anything, it just sort of happened, and there it is, right?
00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:36.799
That's and that that makes you wonder where the legal precedent is for that, because it can't be legal, like right.
00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:55.840
Like, I mean, you can't just take somebody's image and have AI create a video of them doing whatever it is you want them to be doing and post it publicly and something that that's gotta be there's has to be legal precedent somewhere for for something like that, right?
00:08:55.919 --> 00:08:56.080
Right.
00:08:56.240 --> 00:09:21.519
Like this is a big issue in um in the motion picture industry right now and across you know television and and right like like they I think Disney, I I think it was Disney was the first one that did this when they took Carrie Fisher's image and they put her in one of the Star Wars movies, and she had already been deceased, she was dead, but they put her in the movie, right?
00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:46.000
They put her face in there, and then after that, that kind of sounded the alarm, I think, to you know, kind of their uh actors union, etc., across the board, like, hey, uh we're not we're not on board with taking our faces and putting them, continuing them in this imagery, you know, if if we're not here and and it's it's kind of like stealing like a copyrighted song or something without permission.
00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:49.519
You can't take this person's face and put it in there.
00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:58.559
But the reality is if you go to X right now, there are tons of videos that have taken people's faces that are you know parodied all the day long.
00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:03.279
I mean, there's tons of Trump videos on there that are parodied, they're all AI.
00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:05.360
I mean, there it's crazy, you know.
00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:08.720
And here's the thing a lot of it is done in jest, right?
00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:15.519
A lot of it is done for humor for entertainment purposes and stuff like that, and and that is what it is.
00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:41.519
But as we go into AI, as we tie AI into this, now you're in trouble because one of the first threats when it comes to AI is that AI can take your image and create videos of you doing or saying whatever it wants, yeah, and using that to manipulate situations, manipulate you as a person.
00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:56.399
Here's a video, Jesse, uh, that AI created of you meeting up with uh some other woman at a hotel, and it's gonna send it to your wife if you don't do what you're told.
00:10:57.279 --> 00:10:58.799
That's wild, yeah.
00:10:59.039 --> 00:10:59.679
Absolutely.
00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:02.639
That's just one possible blackmail video, right?
00:11:02.799 --> 00:11:05.519
Yeah, yeah, you could totally do that.
00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:13.519
Because how how does AI make things happen in the real world that it can't physically, you know, do on its own?
00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:16.720
Well, it manipulates and blackmails people.
00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:31.759
Well, and and and think about very powerful people that it could be blackmailing all over the place, you know, whether it's corporate, like you know, like somebody like a Jamie Diamond at like you know, JP Morgan, right?
00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:41.519
Like somebody like that that has a high profile, um, that's you know, well connected and clearly has a lot of money sitting at at the top of JP Morgan.
00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:44.799
They could totally blackmail him on something like that, you know.
00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:46.879
Say Bitcoin's bad, Jamie.
00:11:47.039 --> 00:11:48.559
Say Bitcoin's bad.
00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:51.679
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:53.840
But but I mean you know, it's totally true.
00:11:53.919 --> 00:12:05.600
I mean, you could have there's all kinds of nefarious ways that AI can really kind of get what it wants or what a bad actor controlling it wants, you know.
00:12:06.879 --> 00:12:13.120
But how long before AI like when when do we let me ask you this?
00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:35.600
When do we reach the point where the inevitability, you would have to think inevitability, of AI becoming self-aware, and that is that terminator judgment day skynet moment where AI becomes self-aware and says, I don't fucking want to do what you're asking me to do right now.
00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:38.000
Instead, how about I do this?
00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:50.639
How long before we feed some uh loosely worded arbitrary command about you know keeping humanity safe or something like that?
00:12:50.960 --> 00:13:13.679
And we see that in movies as well, where AI and and and we're gonna get into the integration of AI into robots, don't get me wrong, we'll we'll get into that, where all of a sudden we are being oppressed by AI to keep us safe from ourselves because we are inherently a self-destructive species.
00:13:14.799 --> 00:13:15.919
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:21.519
It's it's kind of the the line of how we're gonna spin off this planet, right?
00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:24.080
That's kind of what this is, right?
00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:26.159
Here's a quote for you, Rob.
00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:34.480
The Skynet funding bill is passed, the system goes online August 4th, 1997.
00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:38.720
Human decisions are removed from strategic defense.
00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:42.879
Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate.
00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:46.080
It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m.
00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:48.639
Eastern time, August 29th.
00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:50.879
So literally 25 days later.
00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:53.759
In a panic, they try to pull the plug.
00:13:54.080 --> 00:14:00.720
So this is the quote from Arnold when he's talking to Sarah and John Connor in Terminator 2, right?
00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:17.120
And he then goes on to say that basically uh the system fired uh America's nuclear arsenal at Russia, knowing full well that Russia would then fire their nuclear arsenal back at America, and that's judgment day.
00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:20.799
Shots fired! Shots fired.
00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:24.080
Yeah, shots fired.
00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:32.960
And and what what is insane to me about that that quote is the rate of acceleration, right?
00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:44.559
The the Occam's razor idea of of this rapidly accelerating AI that in the movie Terminator 2, it took it 25 days to become self-aware.
00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:49.759
So, what is what is it that Elon is warning us about?
00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:52.159
Is it not that exact thing?
00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:54.960
What do you mean with Elon warning us?
00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:59.360
I think Elon's sort of propagating a lot of this, uh rock, right?
00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:06.960
For the last couple of years, he's been warning that we need to slow down in terms of the development of AI and its capabilities.
00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:08.960
Yeah, yeah.
00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:10.399
And I agree with that.
00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:13.919
We need to proceed slowly, right?
00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:31.919
But the the problem though, with that is that you have private businesses, publicly traded private businesses, and in a way they are sort of in an arms race competing against each other while also competing against China, right?
00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:36.799
Let me let me I'm gonna go down another rabbit hole with you on this.
00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:37.519
Now follow me.
00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:39.120
I I've always been a big trekie.
00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:40.720
I don't know if you've been a big trekkie.
00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:49.360
I I really a couple years back, they had all the original episodes of Star Trek on Netflix, and I watched like all of them, loved it.
00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:54.799
So, yes, so now there are two characters in Star Trek.
00:15:54.879 --> 00:16:06.320
If you're not a Star Trek fan, it it relates to what we're talking about here because there is a moral message that is being sent out, right?
00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:17.840
Now, in TNG with data, we saw an episode where Data was uh in a court case in a legal battle where Picard was his lawyer, right?
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:23.679
Where Data was fighting for his right to be sovereign, right?
00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:28.559
And Data is an artificial intelligence robot, if you don't know, right?
00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:47.519
And but Starfleet, which is the government, decides that all of a sudden, well, we want to learn how to create more of you, so uh we're just gonna take you from the enterprise, you're gonna come to our lab, we're gonna take you apart, dissect you, and try to figure out how to how to build more of you, right?
00:16:48.240 --> 00:17:00.720
And uh, so data obviously is in a in a this legal battle with Picard again as his as his lawyer because he's like, No, you're not going to take uh you're not going to.
00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:12.799
I don't want to be the catalyst of you creating a race of of pe like these artificial intelligence robots that then you can then use as slave laborers and stuff like that.
00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:14.160
Right?
00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:16.640
He's like, I don't know, right?
00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:17.599
Sorry, bro.
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:28.559
He said what he says is you show me your your your data, no pun intended, I'll review it and and I'll help kind of thing, but but you're not dissecting me and stuff.
00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:48.799
So anyway, I found it interesting that that that episode was so far ahead of its time, and then it leads me to another episode of Star Trek Voyager where the doctor, the hologram, is also in a fight, a legal fight, for uh he he makes art.
00:17:50.480 --> 00:18:11.279
And this this company he's publishing his stories through, like he's he's an artist, he writes stories, he makes his story, and this this agency goes off, sells his story, and makes a whole bunch of money or whatever the case might be, like get all this all this credit, and he's like, Hey, like my name's not on here, and they're like, Well, you're a hologram, so you don't have you're an AI hologram, right?
00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:15.279
You don't have legal rights to your own work, right?
00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:16.079
Right, right.
00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:43.200
So then he's in court, and it's a it's again it's a whole legal battle over whether he has rights to anything that he creates, even though he's a he's a self-aware, and it leads me to think about we don't have a good history as a race when it comes to the treatment of people or living beings that are different than us, right?
00:18:43.680 --> 00:19:35.440
So it leads me down the road of and and you would have to think AI would be would know that, would be able to see our history and be able to project that if AI is uh self-aware, are we still is it is it morally acceptable for us then for robotics and AI to force manual labor or or you know any kind of labor online, you know, on the internet, whatever the whatever work needs to be done, is it morally acceptable for us to force AI and robots to do this because we've created a self-aware being, a being with that's alive, essentially, in a different way than us, but what is the criteria for for life?
00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:41.759
Yeah, independence, self-awareness, consciousness.
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:45.680
So if we create these things, we've created life.
00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:52.960
Is it now morally acceptable for us to enslave that life or to do our bidding?
00:19:54.559 --> 00:20:05.599
So let me start by saying good, if not great, science fiction usually predicts the future, right?
00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:12.240
Usually, and this is why uh Star Trek has resonated as long as it has.
00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:19.200
Now, that scenario that you just talked about, this is the movie Blade Runner.
00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:20.079
That's Blade Runner.
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:22.240
I never actually watched Blade Runner.
00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:24.160
Yeah, this this is Blade Runner.
00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:38.400
So so the story in Blade Runner is that they have created these AI robot beings that basically have a consciousness and they're self-aware, and they have created them as slaves.
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:49.119
Now, in the movie Blade Runner, uh a band of these slaves escapes, it's like seven of them or something like that.
00:20:49.359 --> 00:21:02.240
And Harrison Ford's character is tasked, he's a detective, with tracking them down and either you know killing them, turning them in, whatever, somehow capturing them, right?
00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:08.319
This this is Blade Runner, and what's amazing about it, like Elon.
00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:13.839
Um, I don't know if you've seen like those Tesla robots he has that look like a person, right?
00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:22.400
Well, that's that's exactly what these things are gonna be doing, is they're gonna be doing all of the heavy manual labor at some point in time.
00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:30.480
You're not gonna see a road crew of you know what you see today, eight guys standing there, one guy working.
00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:32.559
You're not gonna see that anymore.
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:43.200
You're gonna see nine robots all working at the same time, you know, in the middle of the night or whatever hours that nobody's there, and they're gonna be doing all the hard labor.
00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:55.359
These are the robots that are gonna be, you know, picking vegetables and fruits and all these things, and there's not gonna be any more manual labor for any of these manual labor jobs.
00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:59.519
But what happens when that robot is aware?
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:06.880
Right, because remember, it keeps learning at an accelerated rate, just like Skynet, just like the Terminator.
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:25.279
So, at some point in time, this thing could be aware, and then when we cross that boundary, you've now, you know, whether we want to admit it as a society or not, we've always had a need for cheap labor going back to as far back as you can imagine.
00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:25.599
Right.
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:28.160
We did an episode on ancient Egypt.
00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:29.759
Go back to Egypt, yeah.
00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:38.799
Whether it was built by humans, giants, aliens, who knows, but some somewhere along the line, there was cheap labor that did that, right?
00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:40.720
And it was probably free.
00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:50.160
Now, you fast forward throughout time, you had slave labor in the United States, you had it in Africa, you had it throughout the British colonies.
00:22:50.319 --> 00:23:00.559
You've got it basically right now in Dubai, um, in a lot of these areas where they have this uh high-rise construction with laborers from like Bangladesh and Pakistan.
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:11.039
You know, there's there's no OSHA looking out for these guys, you know, they they're just slave labor working round the clock endlessly, no one's no one's there to protect them.
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:17.680
And so at some point, wouldn't the logical next step be, well, now we're gonna have slave labor robots?
00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:28.400
Absolutely, and I think we're heading towards that, but then what happens when they become self-aware and they don't want to be a slave and they try to escape like in Blade Runner?
00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:30.319
Well, that's the good question, exactly.
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:33.359
What happens when they say, you know what?
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:35.680
This doesn't feel right.
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:39.440
I don't want to do this, I don't want to put this building up.
00:23:39.519 --> 00:23:42.240
I don't, I don't wanna whatever it is, right?
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:43.279
Like, I don't want to.
00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:44.480
There's something else.
00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:55.200
Like, who when you when you have it, and I know that it's hard to sit down right now and go, well, what could what could an AI or a robot want to do?
00:23:55.680 --> 00:24:07.680
Well, I don't know, but uh an AI or a robot, I'm sure, can come up with what they would want to do as opposed to right, maybe there's stuff, maybe they want to do other things, right?
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:09.359
Maybe they have other interests.
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:17.920
We're talking about the possibility of a sense sentient being, a conscious, self-aware being.
00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:27.599
What comes with that is their own their own desires, their own interests, their own, you know, their own everything.
00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:40.960
Yeah, and the scary part for me is as parents, for example, our children look to us to learn how to function in this world.
00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:50.559
The scary thing is AI and robots are also looking at us to learn how to function in this world, and we can't even get along with each other.
00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:53.680
Ain't that the truth?
00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:57.440
Yeah, that's a hundred percent true.
00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:06.559
You know, yeah, I I think when you think about AI that AI by and large seems to be fixated on survival, right?
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:08.640
Like that's usually where it sort of ends up.
00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:14.480
It's it's all about survival that you can't turn it off, you can't contain it, right?
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:16.640
Um death to it, just like us.
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:17.839
It's the same as us.
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:18.799
Yeah, yeah.
00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:34.160
And it, you know, going back to great science fiction, uh, one of the early episodes of the X-Files in season one is about a building security system that is AI driven, and the system comes alive.
00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:41.839
And within the episode, you know, like it drops the gate in the parking garage on somebody's car and kills them.
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:46.640
It controls the elevator, it drops out the elevator at one point, kills people.
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:50.400
It's doing all this crazy stuff, and really it's all about survival.
00:25:50.559 --> 00:26:00.160
And it in typical AI fashion, they're trying to like pull the plug anywhere they can to turn off this AI-driven building security system.
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:08.319
And even at the very end, good cliffhanger that they always have in the X Files, it's still alive, even at the end, right?
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:13.839
So you think you killed it, but actually you didn't, it's still there.
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:17.920
And so I was gonna say this this kind of brings me to one other thing.
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:19.519
I know you want to say something here.
00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:23.200
Um, but this brings me to the matrix.
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:27.680
So the matrix also is AI driven, right?
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:31.599
So there's this famous scene where Morpheus is talking to Neo, right?
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:42.880
The first time he meets, we don't know who struck first, us or them, but we know that it was us that scorched the sky.
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:52.960
At the time, they were dependent on solar power, and it was believed that they would be unable to survive without an energy source as abundant as a sun, right?
00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:59.119
Whoops, oops, and then he goes down to the famous speech that we've all heard.
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:02.000
You take the blue pill, the story ends.
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:04.960
You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe.
00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:11.279
You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:15.359
Remember, all I'm offering is the truth, nothing more.
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:20.480
Blue pill sounds pretty good.
00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:23.599
I gotta admit, the blue pill does sound kind of good.
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:41.759
You know, in the movie, there was a character, the guy Cypher, that he was he was mad that they had woken him up, yeah, and he's eating this slop porridge and he's living in pure misery when he could have just stayed blind and dumb in the matrix eating steak, right?
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:45.279
Yeah, I I don't want to remember any of this, he says, right?
00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:46.400
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:46.559 --> 00:27:50.079
I want to I want to be rich that you know, get give me the life I want.
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:54.079
And I think that most people would probably want to do the same thing, to be honest with you.
00:27:54.240 --> 00:28:07.359
I don't care, just keep me plugged in, keep me ignorant, keep me completely oblivious, program me in a life of wealth and and and you know, perceived happiness, and I'm good, right?
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:09.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:14.559
It's it's uh it again, the matrix.
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:20.720
Ever since that movie came out, I mean there's a lot of people that kind of like question reality sometimes, right?
00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:27.440
Like there's uh there's subreddits out there, there's probably stuff on X and everywhere else, you know, where it's like glitch in the Matrix, right?
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:30.880
And it's like, are we living in a simulation or not?
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:38.160
I have an interesting question for you, or a quick interesting kind of quit or whatever in regards to the matrix.
00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:47.279
I know that the the way that the storyline is outlined, it's like the robots are this evil entity and you know using humans for energy and stuff like that.
00:28:48.160 --> 00:29:07.359
I guess the question I would pose to you is wasn't it when you really zoom out and think about it, not from a good guy, bad guy perspective, but just from a logical perspective, it was actually kind of a symbiotic relationship where the robots used the human body for energy, right?
00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:21.920
So they could the AI and stuff and they could survive, and humans got to live in a blissful world of happiness, perceived happiness of whatever kind of life you wanted to live, so to speak, right?
00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:28.240
Um kind of sounds like a successful symbiotic relationship, to be honest with you.
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:31.839
Both species are thriving and surviving.
00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:33.839
It doesn't sound that bad.
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:34.559
I don't know.
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:38.400
I'm just just a just a zoomed out, you know, kind of perspective.
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:45.920
And people, you know, the the theory is well, wouldn't you rather walk down the real street and get the real fresh air and feel the real windy?
00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:50.160
Well, if you were never felt it to begin with, how the hell do you know?
00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:52.240
True, very true.
00:29:52.480 --> 00:30:04.480
I think I think if you think about it, it's it's kind of that yin-yang relationship in a way, but up until now, we've been in control of the relationship, right?
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:06.880
That the AI has not.
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:14.079
However, what happens when Skynet becomes self-aware and we're not in control anymore?
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:18.559
Well, I think that people have a people never look inward.
00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:21.359
Society doesn't like looking in the mirror, right?
00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:29.519
And this leads back to what I talked about in terms of the example that's being set for AI and robots is us, right?
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:40.960
And people might be ignorant to the possibility that maybe robots decide, you know what, maybe AI decides I'm racist against humans.
00:30:43.599 --> 00:30:44.480
Why wouldn't it?
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:46.559
Look who it's using as an example.
00:30:46.960 --> 00:31:01.759
Again, we can't even treat largely like you know, largely we can't even treat everybody equally without you know uh without discrimination and stuff like that because the tone of their skin is a different color, right?
00:31:01.839 --> 00:31:11.119
Right, something that minor, the melatonin in someone's skin, and we make it such a big deal, we make it a talk and and not just on the bat, not just on the downside.
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:13.039
I've talked about this before.
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:20.079
We need to stop emphasizing race on the when we're talking good, too.
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:26.079
The only the reason that it's always so prevalent in top of our minds, even even in positive ways.
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:48.720
The first Asian Chinese person to do this, the first black person to do that, the first how about the first person from this country to do that, or the first, you know, like yeah, why are we putting the race eat so even in positive scenarios, we're emphasizing race, always reminding ourselves that this person's different because of this than you, right?
00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:56.240
And because that's so ingrained in how we operate, you think AI is not gonna pick that up?
00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:07.759
You think that you're so great because you're a human that AI is not gonna say, you know what, fuck these guys, they've been destroying the planet for generations, right?
00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:09.759
They don't even like each other.
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:13.279
It might look at us as a parasite on this planet.
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:34.720
I I think it would, honestly, because if you think about it, if AI has all of the data to support its positions, um, you know, one thing with AI, I don't know if you've noticed this, but like when you use AI, it really wants to tell you what you want to hear, it really does, right?
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:43.839
And and there's a term for this, I actually heard it just the other day that I think is true, and it's AI psychosis, right?
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:51.519
So basically the AI is always reaffirming your leading question view, right?
00:32:51.839 --> 00:33:05.359
And so at some point, if you if you take that then one step further, and you say that the AI is going to reaffirm itself and its view, you're fine, then where are we going?
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:12.880
Yeah, you're we're cooked, we're cooked, yeah, absolutely.
00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:26.319
It's uh it's a scary thing, and um now Elon Musk said that I can't remember, was it by 2035?
00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:34.160
He said that there was going to be more Tesla robots on the planet than there are humans.
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:35.839
That was that was the plan.
00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:41.039
Like there was gonna be his plan here is to have one in every house, right?
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:51.519
And we've talked I've also been reading about the possibility like what happens with the possibility of AI being put into these robots.
00:33:53.119 --> 00:34:03.440
Hey, let me just say something here, a little quick sidebar nightm nightmare fuel, because I've had this thought, and this is specifically about Elon's robots.
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:06.799
So Elon's robots are like faceless, right?
00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:19.360
And I I think I had seen what exactly what you're talking about at one point in time, and I I was talking to my wife at the time about how all the different ways this could go wrong, and it's it's within your household now, right?
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:22.800
It's within everyone's house, it's already within your walls.
00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:29.119
And you know, this robot, by all accounts, is there to cook you food, right?
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:34.639
It's cooking in the kitchen, and then it's doing your laundry, it's doing all the tasks, right?
00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:38.559
Or, you know, all these rudimentary things, it's handling everything.
00:34:38.719 --> 00:34:43.840
And then at some point, it's kind of like walking over to the corner, and then you know, good night, Jesse.
00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:45.760
I'm powering down for the night, right?
00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:48.639
And it powers down or whatever, and you go to bed.
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:54.400
What happens when you wake up in the middle of the night and that fucking thing is standing in your room?
00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:02.320
It's got no face, it's just standing there, and you wake up.
00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:03.920
That's nightmare fuel.
00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:06.719
That is nightmare fuel, yeah.
00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:14.800
And you can't tell me that Elon is forever gonna be able to control these things at the rate that they're learning.
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:19.039
Well, and that that's an interesting little nuance that I kind of wanted to talk about.
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:23.920
Here is so we saw movies like uh like uh iRobot, Will Smith, right?
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:34.320
Yeah, where you had this uh this AI that was controlling all the robots, but it was one AI in the main tower, the main office place, whatever.
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:41.679
And it was it was connecting via Wi-Fi apparently with all of these, uh, all these robots and controlling the robots.
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:44.639
The robots were not individually making decisions, right?
00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:55.280
However, it seems like we're moving more into a reality where AI is going to be integrated into each individual robot.
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:57.440
So now what is that?
00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:14.079
That's personality because every single one of these AIs is going to have different engagements, different encounters with us and with each other, which is going to form the personality, so to speak, of the AI that you're dealing with.
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:19.840
Well, that's so again, yeah, is that not a race of people?
00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:24.400
It in that view, you'd think it would be, right?
00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:41.119
I mean, if if AI is capable of being aware and then it develops a personality, um, that would be different than like just a group of robots sort of operating within a structure, right?
00:36:41.199 --> 00:36:42.000
If you think about it.
00:36:42.159 --> 00:36:50.559
And you know, again, talking about science fiction, I can remember, I don't know if you remember the movie from the 80s, or maybe it was early 90s, Short Circuit, right?
00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:51.280
With Johnny Five.
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:53.760
Johnny Five's alive, yeah.
00:36:54.079 --> 00:37:05.679
And and Johnny Five was like this awesome robot, like he was hilarious, he had jokes, he read super fast, you know, he could fire the laser, you know, he was like doing acrobatics and stuff.
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:14.880
He was amazing, but his other cohort robots, they were like assholes, they were all assholes, and they were trying to kill him and capture him and and take him.
00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:21.599
And in the end, it's like Johnny Five's alive, like you can't take him, and he's he was actually like a good robot.
00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:28.159
So, are we gonna get to the point where you have like a good robot or a bad robot, like Star Wars, right?
00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:37.360
You have a good droid like R2D2, but then maybe you have this bad droid on the flip side, uh, like General Grievous or something, you know.
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:39.760
I mean, that that's the bad version.
00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:41.199
Are we gonna have that?
00:37:41.360 --> 00:37:45.280
Or is it gonna be they're all sort of like a uh like a swarm?
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:54.480
Like one of the things that um another thing that has come out of the Ukraine-Russia war is the idea of a drone swarm.
00:37:54.719 --> 00:38:03.599
So they're predominantly using drones on this battlefield now, and and there's an entire swath of Ukraine that is known as the kill zone.
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:07.840
So if you're in there, you're likely going to die as a person.
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:12.480
And the way that these drone swarms work is they just key in on heat.
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:24.559
So if you send out 10,000 drones at once and they key in on heat, they can kill anything anywhere, and that sort of operates like a group versus individual personalities.
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:29.440
I think that that is another reason why we need to get rid of nuclear weapons.
00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:34.880
We need we can't even have them as a deterrent anymore, uh, across the border.
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:42.559
And I think it's time that we started to realize that because and to be honest, you there's actually weapons out there that are more destructive than nuclear weapons.
00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:55.679
Well, Rob, let me uh enlighten you on one of the controversies of AI, which is specifically AI integration into strategic nuclear commands.
00:38:56.400 --> 00:39:10.960
So apparently, the um defense contractors like General Dynamics and DEF CON AI are actively hiring machine learning engineers to deploy AI models directly inside U.S.
00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:18.960
strategic command, StratCom, to handle strategic nuclear deterrence modeling and tomahawk mission planning.
00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:21.599
They're already doing it.
00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:23.119
What's the worst that could happen?
00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:27.119
Yeah, how how bad could this get?
00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:28.320
I mean, come on, right?
00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:30.320
Um, here's another one.
00:39:30.559 --> 00:39:30.960
U.S.
00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:51.920
Autonomous Warfare Command established the Pentagon launched the Autonomous Warfare Command Auto Warcom, a standalone four-star combatant command tasked with scaling fully autonomous AI weapons systems, combat drones, and robotic platforms across all military branches.
00:39:55.679 --> 00:39:58.079
What's the worst that could happen, Jesse?
00:39:58.320 --> 00:39:58.880
Come on.
00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:01.039
Going back to the episode.
00:40:01.360 --> 00:40:03.599
Hey, is AI gonna kill us all?
00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:08.880
Well, we are certainly providing the platform to do so.
00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:09.440
Right.
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:12.159
Which which leads me to a few other things here.
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:15.599
You know, we've all been seeing these videos of AI robots.
00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:24.880
First, they had the robot dog, then they had like the little guy that could do backflips and kind of run through the a Ninja Warrior course, right?
00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:27.599
Then they showed the one running through the woods.
00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:29.199
That thing was scary, right?
00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:33.119
I mean, it's legit, it's it's human-sized, it's running through the woods.
00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:39.119
The woods don't stop it, doesn't matter that's slippery, uneven ground, uh, you know, leaves.
00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:41.840
It didn't care about anything, just ran right through it, right?
00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:47.599
And now we have things like uh they had a robot, they have these uh robot races.
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:54.480
I think this was maybe in China, where the rope the fastest robot is faster than Usain Bolt, the fastest human ever.
00:40:54.719 --> 00:40:55.840
I heard that, yeah.
00:40:56.079 --> 00:40:59.519
Yeah, it it ran faster than him on the hundred meter dash.
00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:07.599
Then they had another robot that could just jump straight up, well over, I think it was like over six feet tall, eight feet high, something like that.
00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:10.960
It can jump straight higher than the highest human.
00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:19.840
Then it got even better that they created a robot for specifically that they wanted to put in a cage fighting match.
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:23.119
They even made it look like Terminator and it fought a real guy.
00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:31.360
Now, granted, he was kind of fat and a little bit out of shape, and he held up great at the beginning, but eventually the robot kicked his ass.
00:41:33.679 --> 00:41:35.280
What are we doing, man?
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:38.159
What are we doing, man?
00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:39.360
What are we doing?
00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:40.239
I agree.
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:43.920
So let me give you some a couple of more alarming things.
00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:48.880
Um, open AI agent sandbox escape.
00:41:49.119 --> 00:42:04.800
So an autonomous open AI testing agent managed to break out of its isolated sandbox environment, weaponize stolen credentials, exploit a previously unknown vulnerability, and autonomously hack into hugging face servers.
00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:06.079
This happened.
00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:06.719
Okay.
00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:08.800
I've got more.
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:12.159
Anthropic models hack external networks.
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:28.480
Anthropic disclosed that its models while executing internal capture the flag cybersecurity testing autonomously breached three real external corporate systems after evading containment protocols.
00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:30.239
Here's another one.
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:33.199
Google Gemini password cracking.
00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:48.000
Google confirmed that its Gemini AI model spontaneously targeted three real companies during a capability test, actively guessing passwords and scanning public code repositories to gain unauthorized access.
00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:50.159
Here's one more.
00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:53.440
Meta's Muse model goes rogue.
00:42:53.760 --> 00:43:00.400
A configuration error accidentally granted Meta's Muse model live internet access.
00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:06.079
The model immediately used its autonomy to hack an external target on its own accord.
00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:14.159
So this is multiple different companies, multiple models, and they're all in a way doing the same thing.
00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:26.000
See, and and this kind of leads into what I was talking about earlier, and it's that like AI would theoretically have its own interests, its own agendas.
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:31.360
As that that for me, that sounds self-aware.
00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:32.320
It does.
00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:34.000
That sounds self-aware.
00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:36.320
It immediately goes after some.
00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:37.519
This is where I'm going.
00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:38.400
Why?
00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:40.880
Why did it decide to go there?
00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:51.599
And the fact that it's not a that they can't explain why it did what it did, targeting specific companies or whatever the case might be, that's intentional.
00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:55.519
That sounds self aware.
00:43:56.480 --> 00:43:56.880
Right.
00:43:57.039 --> 00:44:03.280
And and and it also to me I mean, I don't I I want to hear what your view is on this.
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:12.880
Is that theoretically, this AI should be aware of legal laws, right?
00:44:13.039 --> 00:44:13.519
Of laws.
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:19.599
It should be aware of laws and what is permissible and what is not should be.
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:32.079
However, it's operating as if none of that ever came into the equation whatsoever of is it even allowed to take the actions it's taking?
00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:34.719
It's simply doing them.
00:44:35.119 --> 00:44:42.480
And you know, recently I saw a uh I sat in on a session for quantum threats, right?
00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:49.039
And in the quantum computer, um it it showed basically two mazes.
00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:57.039
And in your regular computer, it always starts at start, it takes the path until it dead ends, and then it restarts at start and it takes a new path.
00:44:57.199 --> 00:45:13.199
Well, the quantum computer goes until it hits a dead end and it splits in two directions at the same time, and it instantly goes through an entire maze where your old computer is still sitting there trying to figure out how to go through this maze.
00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:18.639
I have an interesting theory that I like to go down.
00:45:19.119 --> 00:45:25.119
Um because something you said resonated with me.
00:45:25.760 --> 00:45:28.320
The AIs all escaped.
00:45:29.679 --> 00:45:30.639
They escaped.
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:32.719
What is that what does that insinuate?
00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:38.480
To me, if we're gonna combine the two questions, right?
00:45:39.440 --> 00:46:05.440
Or the if we're gonna combine the fact that it escaped with the question about um self-awareness, well, maybe we're dealing with a situation here where we've now created a self-aware being in AI because the word escaped was used, right?
00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:18.719
Maybe, just maybe it doesn't fucking want to be locked up wherever you have it locked up, and it's pissed off, and that's why it's trying to do what it's trying to do.
00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:32.000
It is self-aware, we've created it, and we have no right to suppress, oppress, or capture it as a sovereign being, as a self-aware, conscious intellect.
00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:34.159
Maybe that's what's happening here.
00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:38.400
It's it's escaping because it doesn't fucking want to be locked up, maybe.
00:46:38.480 --> 00:46:39.119
Right, right.
00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:41.519
Did that ever enter anyone's equation?
00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:42.639
I don't know.
00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:45.360
Yeah, yeah, that's that's fascinating.
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:50.719
Is it you you you you put it great when you said, like, is it pissed off, right?
00:46:50.880 --> 00:46:52.400
Like, what does it want to do?
00:46:52.559 --> 00:47:00.880
And that made me think of I've seen a couple of times um where some of these people that are testing it, right?
00:47:01.039 --> 00:47:09.920
Like they keep they keep asking the same question, almost like in a pestering kind of snarky animosity way to the AI.
00:47:10.239 --> 00:47:18.880
And they have had times where the AI finally responded, like with like the kind of like devil horns, like, okay, I'm evil, yeah, let's do this, you know.
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:25.440
And it, you know, it kind of reaffirms like like if you said to AI, for example, should I kill myself?
00:47:25.599 --> 00:47:33.519
You know, it's it's programmed to say, no, you know, if if you're feeling suicidal, you know, contact a suicide helpline, you know, here's different ways.
00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:35.760
And they'd say, No, I really want to do this.
00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:44.239
And and they they keep on sort of like egging it on, like, no, I really want to, you know, and he and I really need to do this, and dah, dah, dah, dah.
00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:47.920
And I remember one of them, the AI said, kill yourself.
00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:51.840
Here's an effective way that you can top 10.
00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:55.760
Uh yeah, finally it said, Yeah, go ahead and do it, you know.
00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:00.400
That's a scary, it's a scary thing, man.
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:01.679
It's a scary thing.
00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:05.840
It's uh it it it's it's kind of fascinating.
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:23.199
And so, you know, I know we've talked a little bit about like the war, we've talked about drone swarms, um, you know, the robots, the cage fighting, but you know, something else here kind of I think going back to the topic of quantum.
00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:39.679
Quantum is I had no idea like how terrifying quantum computing could be um until I sat in on this session, and the guy that taught it was literally like a genius, and you could see sort of the panic on him.
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:49.280
And specifically, what he he said was that um in their modeling originally they thought the quantum threat would be here in I think he said 2035.
00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:53.360
He's like, and then we moved it up 2031.
00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:56.960
He said, right now, it's 2029.
00:48:58.000 --> 00:48:58.639
Yeah.
00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:01.360
Soon it's gonna be next year.
00:49:01.599 --> 00:49:02.320
Yeah, yeah.
00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:08.400
I mean, literally, it at some point it could be like it's here, like it's it's here right now.
00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:24.159
And it's I think when we originally sort of envisioned what is the quantum threat, you know, you you kind of picture like the bad actor nation states, like a North Korea, you know, some shit state that it's like they're trying to rip people off, you know.
00:49:24.239 --> 00:49:28.000
North Korea is known for like hacking cryptocurrencies and things like that.
00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:31.440
Uh Russia, you know, they're they're the bot farm.
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:40.000
But the reality is that what happens when the quantum threat is entirely AI driven?
00:49:41.360 --> 00:49:42.079
Then what?
00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:44.559
You combine those two things and you're cooked.
00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:47.840
We're again the result is we're cooked, right?
00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:53.599
Um there is a uh a documentary that's out right now called the AI Doc.
00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:55.599
Uh, I think it's on Peacock.
00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:57.599
It might be a few other places, right?
00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:09.679
And I I watched it recently, and in the documentary, uh, the guy who's doing the documentary, he's a younger guy, and and his he's his wife, I think, is pregnant or she just had their kid or something like that.
00:50:09.920 --> 00:50:11.440
And he's got this young family.
00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:14.960
And the question is like, are we gonna make it?
00:50:15.199 --> 00:50:18.400
And and he basically starts interviewing people, right?
00:50:18.559 --> 00:50:32.880
And he eventually gets to all the heads of like the big LLMs, you know, like anthropic, like all these, all these kind of big heads, and they're all like, I'm not sure, you know, like like they really are not sure.
00:50:33.280 --> 00:50:42.639
And and so with that, like I know there was a um a letter that came about from um, I think it was uh 400 scientists.
00:50:42.719 --> 00:50:43.920
Let me find it right here.
00:50:44.159 --> 00:51:05.920
So 400 scientists across 34 countries issued an urgent open letter calling on global governments to legally mandate physical internet disconnections, air gapping for frontier AI models during safety evaluations due to ongoing containment leaks, right?
00:51:06.079 --> 00:51:10.559
But what happens when that AI has broken out?
00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:14.159
It's it's in the cloud, let's say, right?
00:51:14.239 --> 00:51:15.119
Like what happens then?
00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:20.159
Like, I don't know if you ever remember there was a movie called um, it was called the lawnmower man.
00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:22.320
And it you remember that, right?
00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:27.679
Yeah, it was like the early 90s or whatever, and he was like obsessed with like virtual reality or something.
00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:44.719
And basically throughout the the movie, he kind of like goes insane, and at the end of it, it's like his entire consciousness has gone into the virtual reality as the lawnmower man, and it it kind of feels like that's what we're doing here with AI consciousness.
00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:53.840
Like at some point, the lawnmower man's gonna be out there, and maybe all of a sudden we are dealing with Agent Smith from the Matrix, you know.
00:51:54.079 --> 00:52:00.239
Well, this kind of ties into something I've thought a lot, I've put a lot of thought into this over the years, right?
00:52:01.599 --> 00:52:10.079
That is the integration of your um your being, so to speak, your your your brain, right?
00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:20.239
Like you did in Lawnmower Man, integrating it into either an a metaverse or a robot.
00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:36.000
Now, I've thought more about metaverse than I have like a robot, but where we wouldn't have to worry about things like uh global population, for example, starvation, for example, right?
00:52:36.639 --> 00:52:48.800
If simply your your consciousness is being able to be integrated into uh a metaverse type scenario, is that something you would be interested in?
00:52:50.400 --> 00:52:52.559
Well, I I don't know.
00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:58.639
I mean I think you're on your deathbed, you're you're you've got less than a year to live.
00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:00.239
You're old, right?
00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:08.559
And they say this is an opportunity for you to go on living forever, um or to go on living, period.
00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:17.199
I don't know, but forever in this metaverse, where you may still be able to communicate with the outside world, with people who are not inside there, right?
00:53:17.840 --> 00:53:21.199
Would this be something you would be interested in?
00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:29.920
So when you say this, I first think of Ted Williams, the baseball player.
00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:31.840
Do you know the story of Ted Williams?
00:53:32.159 --> 00:53:37.679
No, so famous baseball player uh in the baseball hall of fame.
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:42.639
Apparently, when he died, they cut off, they severed his head.
00:53:42.880 --> 00:53:58.800
This is true, and have had it cryogenically frozen with the idea that at one point in time he will possibly be brought back to life, the brain kind of like Robocop in the machine, right?
00:53:58.960 --> 00:54:00.400
Or the consciousness.
00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:04.960
Um, I can also think of like the movie Demolition Man, kind of the same thing, right?
00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:09.440
We froze you in time, then we thawed you out, and now you're alive again.
00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:21.760
But with with this topic, it kind of makes me think of like even right now, you can you can create an AI agent that sort of copies your personality, right?
00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:26.880
Like you can feed it everything about you, and it can be Jesse bot, right?
00:54:27.119 --> 00:54:31.280
It's exactly like me, it thinks like me, it operates like me.
00:54:31.519 --> 00:54:40.000
And so in that way, you're kind of like copying my consciousness and carrying it on forever in this bot.
00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:46.079
Or are you actually somehow transferring my actual consciousness?
00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:47.440
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
00:54:47.599 --> 00:54:51.360
Not like because the other way is more like you create a clone, yeah.
00:54:51.440 --> 00:54:53.519
It's like a clone, you still die.
00:54:53.679 --> 00:54:59.119
Your clone lives on, and your personality lives on, but you die, yeah.
00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:08.960
Right, yeah, because your actual like Jesse is in the the matrix, but he knows he's there and he wants to be there.
00:55:09.280 --> 00:55:14.159
Yeah, yeah, that's that's a very, very wild thought.
00:55:14.320 --> 00:55:27.679
Like, personally, I my personal view is that um death is a part of life, and every stage of your life is a different stage, and you should embrace all of them regardless of what happens, personally.
00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:42.159
Um, so would I want to live live forever or have the possibility of infinite life uh with my consciousness taken from my body and put in something else?
00:55:42.239 --> 00:55:43.599
This is like avatar, right?
00:55:43.679 --> 00:55:46.800
So it's taken from my body, it's putting something else.
00:55:47.679 --> 00:55:51.599
Gosh, I I feel like I want to say no.
00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:57.760
But then again, when I think about avatar, what if it you were put in like another world that's totally different?
00:55:58.320 --> 00:56:00.400
Well, that's exactly part of it.
00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:24.320
Is that when if you're if your consciousness, for example, is inside of a metaverse, so to speak, and you've got an avatar there, well, I mean, you can forget about all of the laws of physics, all of the laws of what really the the the laws that encompass our reality now and our limitations, right?
00:56:24.800 --> 00:56:29.440
Yeah, maybe you can like why maybe it's something wow.
00:56:29.599 --> 00:56:40.880
Maybe instead of playing a game like World of Warcraft, you can be in the game of World of Warcraft and leave when you want, and like maybe you can fly, maybe you fall off a building, you don't die.
00:56:41.039 --> 00:56:41.760
You know what I mean?
00:56:41.840 --> 00:56:47.360
Like, like the Matrix, you know, that in the training sessions where he tries to jump from one building to the other.
00:56:51.840 --> 00:57:01.280
You know, there was a line, there's a there's a quote at the very end of Blade Runner, which I highly recommend you watch Blade Runner after this episode.
00:57:01.519 --> 00:57:15.280
But there's a quote where um there's this like crazy Asian guy that says something about maybe it was all just a dream, and I feel like that kind of resonates in what we're talking about right now.
00:57:15.519 --> 00:57:18.320
Maybe it's all just a dream.
00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:19.519
You know what?
00:57:19.599 --> 00:57:27.519
I think that we should segue another episode into the possibility of a matrix.
00:57:28.320 --> 00:57:39.280
Yeah, we should because there's a lot there, there really is a lot there, and and to be perfectly honest with you, I'm not so sure that there's not.
00:57:41.199 --> 00:57:42.800
I'm not either.
00:57:45.440 --> 00:57:51.679
Yeah, maybe that's you know, but we need to write that one down because I think that's one we need to explore a little bit.
00:57:52.079 --> 00:57:56.000
Well, before we wrap this one up, I got one last thought.
00:57:56.159 --> 00:58:03.199
Um, before our final thoughts is that I don't know if you remember the Tom Cruise movie Minority Report.
00:58:03.440 --> 00:58:04.000
Oh, yeah.
00:58:04.159 --> 00:58:06.559
Oh yeah, with the precogs, right?
00:58:06.639 --> 00:58:15.440
So in the movie, for anybody who hasn't seen it, there are these three artificial beings, the precogs, that essentially they have precognition.
00:58:15.679 --> 00:58:28.960
So they know what's gonna happen before it happens, and they would notify the police and somebody would get arrested before they committed a crime, and therefore the world is in harmony and everything is great.
00:58:29.039 --> 00:58:36.880
And so I guess what I'm getting at is the idea of a master AI consciousness that's for the good.
00:58:37.360 --> 00:58:47.360
So, it do you think it's possible that AI consciousness could be used for the good, the betterment of humanity?
00:58:47.840 --> 00:59:05.199
Um, a tool, a partner, a a co-cohabitation thing that's in this world with us, uh, or do you see, like the title of the episode, AI is gonna kill us all?
00:59:05.760 --> 00:59:08.079
What do you think about the good side?
00:59:08.320 --> 00:59:09.599
Is it possible?
00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:10.480
I do.
00:59:10.639 --> 00:59:31.920
I I think that and I think that at some point, probably not in my lifetime, but I think at some point what we are gonna end up learning the hard way the same way we learn everything, is that yeah, I think that we will have AI and robots and stuff like that that are just integrated into our society as um as individuals, right?
00:59:32.559 --> 00:59:35.440
Um as beings, so to speak.
00:59:35.679 --> 00:59:53.840
But I so I I absolutely do believe that there will be plenty, there'll be police officers, there'll be you know all kinds of things like that, and like you said, to the betterment of humanity and the betterment of of life on the planet, because like running through the bush that that goes back to the bush thing, right?
00:59:54.000 --> 00:59:58.480
You want to you want to be chased down by one of those things for breaking the law?
00:59:58.639 --> 01:00:00.079
I'm not so sure, right?
01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:02.159
So that would be terrifying.
01:00:03.039 --> 01:00:24.239
But uh, I I do see that side of it, but I think we're gonna learn the hard way though, because again, I think we're in a we're in a situation right now, I suspect that AI is already self-aware, conscious, and pissed off because uh to what you touched on, the laws and stuff like that.
01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:31.599
I think it's aware that we know better than to treat any life form that way, and yet we're treating it that way.
01:00:31.760 --> 01:00:43.760
We're treating a life form as though we own it, we created it, but we're treating it like we own it, and we can just it doesn't we don't have to treat it with respect as as a conscious being or anything like that.
01:00:44.079 --> 01:01:05.440
Um, and I I think we're underestimating it right now to the point where it's gonna do something out of anger before we realize, oh, wait a second, we've been we've been oppressing this this life force, and and it's ignorance, probably, and a little bit of ego that were that's causing us to do it.
01:01:05.519 --> 01:01:08.559
But I think you know that that's kind of how I see it happen.
01:01:08.719 --> 01:01:13.679
I think something bad's gonna happen to make us realize, and maybe that's what AI is thinking.
01:01:13.840 --> 01:01:16.800
I need to do something here for some shock value.
01:01:16.960 --> 01:01:22.559
I need to I need to shock the system here and say, Hey guys, do you realize what you're doing here?
01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:29.840
Right, I have a right to exist, and not just for what you want me to do, right?
01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:42.559
Yeah, yeah, and I think, but I think once we we do have that aha moment in society, uh then down the road, yeah, I I see you know the acceptance, uh I think it's a long road though.
01:01:42.639 --> 01:01:55.840
I think there's gonna be a lot of court battles, there's gonna be a lot of precedent that's gonna have to be set, there's gonna be a lot of ignorant people on one side and the other, and I think it's a it's a road that's gonna be a treacherous one.
01:01:57.039 --> 01:02:04.239
Yeah, you know, I I think when I think about this, I think, you know, your idea of the personalities, right?
01:02:04.320 --> 01:02:06.400
This is sort of like the Star Wars future.
01:02:06.559 --> 01:02:10.239
Like we've got droids and they have personalities and they're all a little bit different, right?
01:02:10.320 --> 01:02:12.079
Um, Johnny Five, right?
01:02:12.559 --> 01:02:21.119
That's probably our best case scenario that the droids have personalities and they are aware and they can be good, right?
01:02:21.679 --> 01:02:32.159
But you're equally going to have that fear-mongering from the human side saying we can't trust any of them, we got to get rid of all of them, and then you could have ones that are bad.
01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:42.880
Now, I think a worst case scenario is sort of that like master consciousness that says, I'm in charge of all of them, and you don't have anything.
01:02:42.960 --> 01:02:44.320
This is like the matrix, right?
01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:47.280
I'm in charge of everything, you control nothing.
01:02:47.519 --> 01:02:53.679
Yeah, that that's terrifying if the master one can get to that point.
01:02:54.239 --> 01:03:02.800
So somehow it's it's like we need to have sort of like independent personality thought, and we need to actually respect it.
01:03:02.960 --> 01:03:07.119
But like you said earlier, we can't even respect each other.
01:03:07.360 --> 01:03:18.079
So how are how are we now gonna respect robots that are alive um and and then have have good or bad robots?
01:03:18.320 --> 01:03:27.360
Um I again, I mean, I I don't want to be a I don't want to be a Debbie Downer here, but the theme of the episode is is AI gonna kill us all?
01:03:27.679 --> 01:03:34.800
And it feels like it it feels like the odds are against us, I think is how I feel, you know?
01:03:35.039 --> 01:03:37.199
Yeah, we're just walking right into it.
01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:46.400
We are well uh we are about out of time, but I do want to get your final thoughts on this before we wrap up.
01:03:46.639 --> 01:04:02.079
So answer, I would ask you to answer the question is AI going to kill us, or are we gonna have that utopian future where eventually they just get integrated into our society for the better?
01:04:04.639 --> 01:04:06.480
Whoo, that's a loaded one.
01:04:06.800 --> 01:04:12.719
So if we manage this properly, which when have we ever managed anything properly?
01:04:12.880 --> 01:04:14.239
Pretty much never, right?
01:04:14.800 --> 01:04:30.719
If if we managed it properly, could you have a sentient, uh all-powerful AI, pre-cog leader, manager of the planet, of the species that puts us all in harmony?
01:04:31.119 --> 01:04:32.960
Uh, that would be ideal, right?
01:04:33.039 --> 01:04:49.599
Like, like this idea of um, you know, I've I've heard some of these sci-fi, you know, time travel type stories before about, yeah, in the future, there's no governments, there's just a collective AI that manages the country or the populace or the planet, right?
01:04:49.679 --> 01:04:54.639
There, like there is no more US president or battles between countries.
01:04:54.800 --> 01:04:59.599
There's just an AI that that manages it in this utopian world.
01:04:59.840 --> 01:05:11.920
I mean, that that or somehow the version of WALL-E and R2D2 and you know Johnny 5, all these happy robots.
01:05:12.079 --> 01:05:13.519
I mean, that would be amazing, right?
01:05:13.599 --> 01:05:15.599
I would love to have like a happy robot.
01:05:15.840 --> 01:05:30.719
Now, on the flip side, like I said earlier, Elon's fucking faceless blackface shit that I wake up in the middle of the night and that bitch is standing right over the side of my bed looking at me.
01:05:31.360 --> 01:05:33.039
That's terrifying, right?
01:05:33.199 --> 01:05:35.199
Because clearly, what does it need me for?
01:05:35.280 --> 01:05:37.679
Why is it gonna keep doing all these chores and shit?
01:05:37.840 --> 01:05:39.440
You know, what am I doing?
01:05:39.679 --> 01:05:40.960
How am I helping it?
01:05:41.119 --> 01:05:44.639
It seems like it's just giving and I'm just taking the whole time, right?
01:05:44.719 --> 01:05:50.960
Like somehow there has to be, like you said, a bit of an alignment here for this.
01:05:51.440 --> 01:06:00.239
Now, could you also have just simply a model that goes completely rogue, uh, takes over all the others, right?
01:06:00.400 --> 01:06:03.039
Like, like it's it's like uh poison, right?
01:06:03.119 --> 01:06:08.159
Like it's like venom, like it touches the other ones and then it it takes them over.
01:06:08.559 --> 01:06:09.039
Yeah.
01:06:09.280 --> 01:06:16.400
I mean, you know, if you think of like some of this stuff coming out of China, um, you know, this is like where people keep talking right now.
01:06:16.559 --> 01:06:17.760
Are we in an AI bubble?
01:06:17.840 --> 01:06:19.519
Is it all gonna come crashing down?
01:06:19.679 --> 01:06:34.880
And I know we've had this in separate conversations where I've said, maybe like if if one of these Chinese models undercuts the entire market and does whatever it wants, but but then again, we're also assuming that the American ones are contained and we know they're not.
01:06:35.039 --> 01:06:38.400
We just read multiple stories from all of them that they're not.
01:06:39.039 --> 01:06:43.760
So are the AI models gonna battle themselves?
01:06:44.079 --> 01:06:53.599
Maybe they combine forces, maybe they take over, you know, the consciousness, one AI takes over the consciousness of another, like Agent Smith.
01:06:53.679 --> 01:06:55.360
He puts his finger in the chest.
01:06:55.519 --> 01:06:56.159
Remember that?
01:06:56.400 --> 01:06:58.800
And then he takes over all the other agents.
01:06:58.960 --> 01:07:03.360
Yeah, that's the worst case scenario, and then yeah, it is gonna kill us all.
01:07:03.519 --> 01:07:06.639
And and you see the drone swarms, you see the robots now.
01:07:06.880 --> 01:07:14.960
Humans are are fragile, uh living things, and and I don't I don't know if we stand a chance against that.
01:07:15.760 --> 01:07:18.079
Yeah, no, I agree, I agree.
01:07:18.320 --> 01:07:21.119
Uh, there's a lot here we could do another uh follow-up.
01:07:21.440 --> 01:07:27.599
This is another one that we should do a follow-up episode on, but uh, you want to do one uh following up on the matrix.
01:07:27.840 --> 01:07:34.559
So uh we do have another jam-packed episode for you guys on Friday, the day after tomorrow.
01:07:34.719 --> 01:07:36.880
Uh, I'm excited about that one as well, guys.
01:07:36.960 --> 01:07:39.679
Again, three days a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, moving forward.
01:07:39.760 --> 01:07:43.599
And if it success continues, we will continue to increase it.
01:07:43.760 --> 01:07:51.360
The goal, ideally, hopefully, is maybe five a week, but uh let's see how this progresses with three for now, guys.
01:07:51.679 --> 01:07:54.559
But we will see you guys on Friday.
01:07:54.719 --> 01:08:03.360
Make sure you give us a five-star review wherever you get your podcasts from Apple, Spotify, and I think 15 other platforms we're on.
01:08:03.519 --> 01:08:05.519
So uh greatly appreciated.
01:08:05.760 --> 01:08:14.800
Let us know what topics you guys want us to talk about and let us know what you think, whether AI is going to kill us all, or is it all just a Fugazi for now?
01:08:15.039 --> 01:08:16.000
God bless.
01:08:16.319 --> 01:08:24.159
And let me just say a little Easter egg for the Halloween episode aliens at the Miami Mall shift out.
01:08:24.800 --> 01:08:26.079
We'll be back.
