Stella Nickells: Excedrin, Cyanide, and Murder

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Welcome back to the Odd Hot Podcast, the podcast where we tell you creepy, odd, weird, strange, and bizarre stories from around the globe.
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I am your curator, Zach, sitting here with the most fantastic human being on the face of this planet, Miss Curator Kara.
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Although I guess it should be Mrs.
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Curator Kara.
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You are married.
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How are you?
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Hi, I'm okay.
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Um, for our quick clip of this week, if I look like a drowned rat, it's because I am a drowned rat.
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I literally just got out of shower.
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My hair is wet.
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I just put a hat on.
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I look dead.
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I look half dead, wet.
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Yeah.
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Half dead and wet.
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You got a twitchy.
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You got a twitchy eye.
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I of this twitchy eye.
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I texted uh my ophthalmologist, Lauren.
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And I said, Hey girl, hey, am I dying?
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Because the internet told me I might have MS, and here's what's happening.
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And she goes, Are you tired?
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Have you been drinking too much caffeine?
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Are you stressed?
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And do you have dry eyes?
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I'm like three out of four for sure.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So I'm not dying.
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But I did make an eye appointment too, just in case it is like a eye strain thing.
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So I made two doctor's appointments on my own this week.
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And I always said without being prodded, but you definitely prodded.
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So what was the other one?
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I'm oh, I made a derm appointment.
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Good job, good, good job.
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If I will live out here where it's the sunny, I need to go get some moles checkout.
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Everybody got your moles checked out.
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Um, but that was really funny when I was like, you you sent me that picture of or that video of us from like 10 years ago or something, and you had glasses on, and I just said, get glasses again.
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You're like, I just made it, or I will.
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And then you're like, I just made an appointment.
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Now you have to, now you have to find a dentist.
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I I already have one.
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Oh, that's right.
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Wow, look at you.
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I know.
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Well, anyway, what else is new besides all your doctor's appointments?
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Oh, doctor's appointments.
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I ooh, I have finally taken all the people who've been telling me to do it forever.
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And I sold my well, I'm selling my Windows laptop and I am joined the MacBook world.
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And it is I do like it.
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I know I've I've said I would never do it.
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I was always a Windows boy, but and you were always so mean to me when I would even suggest it.
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No.
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Okay.
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I love it.
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I'm really happy.
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I am too.
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Oh, so happy for you.
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Yeah.
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I got a good feeling in though.
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Good.
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Well, I'm trying to think what's new with me.
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Oh, so Sunday I went to I can never say the word artistrine artistrin.
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Artisan.
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Why can I never get that right?
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Artisan fair.
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So they do it every uh last Sunday of the month, like downtown Grand Blanc, and it's all these little pop-up vendors, and there's like tarot readings and crystals and plant ladies and all kinds of stuff.
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I don't pay for the tarot lady because I'm like, Zach just can read my tarot.
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I got you.
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Nate's like, yeah, Nate's like, why the fuck would we pay?
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I'm like, right.
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Oh, Nate, Nate has to pay me.
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Oh, okay.
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I'm kidding.
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I'm kidding.
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So anyway, uh, I got a I've always wanted to do the permanent jewelry.
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Oh, yeah, yeah.
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Cute.
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Yeah, and I wanted to do a bracelet, but then she's like, I can do a hand chain.
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So you on that up sale.
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No, actually, I saw it and she I was like, Oh my god, I want that.
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So it's like I showed Zach and he almost had a heart attack.
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He was like, That would give me anxiety because it's I just like the I can't even wear a watch for three hours before I have to take it off.
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Yeah, you would hate this because it like, but see, I love hand chains and I've bought so many over the years and they snap instantly.
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So it was pricey, but not that pricey because it's gonna stay on for like five five years.
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It'll be on.
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And then I also got a ring on this side.
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Yeah, so that was just so much fun.
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And then I bought a little plant.
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I saw the girl that runs a little candle shop.
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I talked about her Christina.
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I saw her and I bought another candle from her, and I bought Nathaniel, a car freshener from her.
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Wow.
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So we just had a little fun day.
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Now that I moved away, you have to buy gifts for other people.
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I know.
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What the hell?
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The Heli.
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Anything else new?
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Exciting.
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Okay.
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I have shop.
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Do you have a shop talk?
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Because if not, I have a couple shop talks actually.
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I don't because I feel like last time we told them every all of our thoughts and feels.
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So to recap that one in case you did miss that, uh, there was not an episode last week because we are going down to two a month for now at least.
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We'll see what happens.
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Um, but I have I have two things for you.
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One, we have to give a shout-out to our bestie who has a six-part mini series on Stream Beacon TV, which if you don't know about it, it's a paranormal like streaming service.
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And Lauren, Lauren Hos or Helixon has hers.
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I've been to the first three episodes.
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It's coming out like weekly, and it's so good.
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I love her.
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I just like I was texting her while watching.
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I'm like, I'm so proud of you.
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Like, yeah.
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Uh, I was telling her how proud I was.
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I haven't watched it yet, um, but you gave me the login, so thanks.
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I very much appreciate that.
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And I will watch it.
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Um, I'm so proud of her and her new equipment.
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She's just too much of her little smarty pants.
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And then I have Shop Talk that you don't know about yet.
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Uh oh.
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I have been sending little messages and been talking with Shirley, and she knows for sure 100% that I will be flying home around major holidays.
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And whenever she wants, she's gonna have a chat with us to talk about events if it's not around major holiday.
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So at some point we are going back to Eloise.
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Yes, and I've been so badly wanting to reach out to her because I just miss ghosts, but I like don't want to do it without you.
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Dude, I had a dream I went ghost hunting.
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No, like I would do it without you, but I don't want to do it without you.
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Because number one, I just don't think it works as well if we're not together.
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And number two, like, I want you with me.
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I know.
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Uh, I've been planning some spooky little adventures when you eventually come out here, but yeah, so stay tuned.
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We will figure that out.
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Yes.
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Um, anything else?
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Shop talk wise.
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Are you ready for a question to open show?
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I am ready.
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I think everybody's ready.
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Okay.
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Do you ever take Excedrin, Tylenol, or aspirin?
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Now, why are you gonna do this to me?
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Do you ever think about the side effects?
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Of course.
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I'd think about the side effects of everything.
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What if you died?
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Zachary, we're all gonna die.
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When you took the aspirin, though.
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Okay.
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What do you what is somebody who was just all worked up?
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Well, because why are you gonna do this to us?
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Because this is a fun story.
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Uh uh.
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It's a fun story because during my adventures out here, I actually met somebody related to this case who promised me if I write the story, she's gonna come and do some follow-ups.
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Okay, you told me that you met somebody about a case and okay, but I don't know anything about it.
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So June 1986, Seattle, Washington, 40-year-old bank manager Susan Snow is at home dealing with a horrible headache that she woke up with.
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So she didn't go to work.
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She remembers that she had previously bought a bottle of Exeterin, and to get some relief, she swallows two capsules.
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Within minutes of taking the medication, she is in severe distress, and not long after that, she passes away.
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Investigators would eventually uncover the cause of her death was a lethal dose of cyanide, and the cyanide traced back to the bottle of excedrin.
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Hmm.
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I'd be dead because I take so much excedrine.
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Actually, not so much.
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Now that all my organs are gone, I don't get as many headaches.
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Ooh, that's good.
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They take a brain too.
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No, but a lot of times, a lot of times, you know, it's hormonal, so yeah.
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So the worst part is though, is that Susan Snow was not even the intended victim.
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She was just collateral damage and a murder plot that began weeks earlier.
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Does this ring any sorts of bells for you?
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No, it doesn't.
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But here's the thing I would be so pissed off if I was the collateral damage of somebody else that's was supposed to get murdered.
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Like, and you're all like, Carrie, you're dead, you're not gonna be pissed off.
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Oh, I would be pissed off dead.
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As we always say, you're coming back to poke some booty holes.
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So we know that's oh, I'm gonna do more than that if I was collateral damage.
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Like you couldn't come up with a better plan so that no one else would like or whatever.
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I don't know anything about this.
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Yeah, you'll you'll find okay, okay, okay.
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I just had to put that in there for this to work.
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There had to be random victims.
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Oh, that makes sense.
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Okay, I kind of I okay, okay, okay, okay.
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Let me shut up.
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Let's go backwards.
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Okay, so Stella Maudine Stevenson, she was born in Colton, Oregon in 1943.
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She spends a lot of her life in the Pacific Northwest.
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She grew up poor, pretty ordinary, nothing, you know, super special about Miss Stella.
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Oh.
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In 1959, she has a daughter.
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Her daughter's name is Cynthia Hamilton, and just after that, she moves to Southern California where she marries and has another daughter.
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Okay.
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Uh, it's here she runs into several legal issues, um, including a fraud conviction in 1968, uh, child abuse in 1969 for hitting Cynthia with a rod.
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Oh.
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And let's just remember what she did to Cynthia.
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Okay.
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So her marriage falls apart and she moves to Auburn, Washington, back to the Pacific Northwest around this time.
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Okay.
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A few years later, at the age of 32 in 1974, she meets a man named Bruce Nickel.
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Um, and the two are married two years later in 1976.
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And she just has the two daughters, right?
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Two daughters, yeah.
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Okay.
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And I'm pretty sure one was no marriage, the other one was from a marriage that fell apart.
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Right.
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And now she needs to marry Bruce Nichols.
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Got it.
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We really don't know a whole lot about Bruce.
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Um, but we know at the time we met, he's about four years old.
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So eight years older than her.
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Um, and he was a happy.
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I thought you just said four years old.
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I was like, what are you talking about?
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Forty.
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Forty.
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It's also very likely that he had a history of drinking.
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He he liked to drink.
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Okay.
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So the two lived a pretty low-key life.
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Um, again, not much is known about their early days.
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But into the 1980s, they lived together for a few years.
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Friends described them as just ordinary working class people.
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And like most ordinary people, life isn't always smooth and relationships are not easy.
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Okay.
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So Bruce's alcoholism leads to tension at home.
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Money is often tight, financial issues are always plaguing them.
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And we don't know if it was like a truly unhappy marriage or if it was just like a little bit more complicated than most marriages.
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I just want to backtrack for a second.
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Yeah.
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I don't want anyone to be like, damn, that came for me.
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If you're just live an ordinary life and not like there's nothing wrong, that doesn't mean that you're married.
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No, there's nothing wrong.
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I'm just saying, it's like we they weren't like, yeah, she had some crime, but she wasn't like the same.
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I know.
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It was just the way you said it.
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You're like, and we know with ordinary families, like like the what just the way you said it.
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They're just like normal people with normal problems, is what it seems like.
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Okay.
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All right.
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But the way you're like, okay, he's an alcoholic, she might be abusive.
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You're like, you know, ordinary people.
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Ordinary, everyone.
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We all have an aunt Stella and an uncle Bruce.
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Okay.
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Okay.
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I just wanted to clarify.
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Here, here's a positive note.
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Bruce does eventually get sober.
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Good job, Bruce.
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And you think this would help their issues, but it almost makes sense.
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Oh, I'm sure it got up.
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Yeah.
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So Stella was a little bit upset that she couldn't visit the bar as much.
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Um, because then she stopped, like, she couldn't do what she the same types of things.
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She finds Bruce annoying and boring.
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And she begins to take evening shifts at a security job at CTAC Airport just to like have something to do at night.
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Um, she also starts to spend more time on her aquarium than with her husband.
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All right.
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Aquarium hobbies are important to Stella.
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Let's just also remember that.
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We need to remember child abuse and we need to remember aquariums.
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Child abuse doesn't she abuse her children.
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Yes, she abused.
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Okay, I just wanted to make sure I understood.
00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:03.600
Cynthia, correct.
00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:04.080
Okay.
00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:51.800
So around 1985, we get some red flags in our little ordinary folks' life because Stella starts to do what every good wife does, and she takes out life insurance policies on Bruce that would pay out even if he died unexpectedly.
00:13:51.879 --> 00:13:53.800
And she is, of course, the beneficiary.
00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:58.040
Which I mean, it's not he's a machine operator.
00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:08.040
Yeah, I mean, that's not that like here's where I would say it might be a little bit it's not policy, it's policies.
00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:09.560
Okay, yeah.
00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:13.720
Which I still don't can't why can you take multiple?
00:14:14.040 --> 00:14:15.879
Because I don't think they talk to each other.
00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:17.639
It's like can you still do that now?
00:14:17.800 --> 00:14:18.920
Yeah, I'm pretty sure.
00:14:19.320 --> 00:14:21.720
It's just like going to different brain banks and opening up different.
00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:22.920
I guess.
00:14:23.159 --> 00:14:23.879
Yeah, I guess.
00:14:24.040 --> 00:14:24.680
Okay, anyway.
00:14:24.920 --> 00:14:28.759
So that was 1985, and June 6th, 1986.
00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:31.399
Bruce returns home from work.
00:14:31.560 --> 00:14:33.080
Uh, he's not feeling very good.
00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:35.800
He complains of a headache and just general illness.
00:14:35.960 --> 00:14:37.159
So he takes a couple, etc.
00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:41.720
In a very short time, he deteriorates pretty rapidly.
00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:47.320
He collapses, Stella calls for help, and emergency responders arrive and rush him to the hospital.
00:14:47.560 --> 00:14:51.080
And shortly after getting to the hospital, Bruce passes away.
00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:51.560
Okay.
00:14:51.800 --> 00:14:52.120
Okay.
00:14:52.759 --> 00:14:54.040
So doctors.
00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:54.840
Oh, go on.
00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:58.120
I was just gonna say, but I guess I want to I'll put my question out here.
00:14:58.200 --> 00:15:01.399
You're not gonna be able to answer it or don't answer it, but I just have to get off my brain.
00:15:01.560 --> 00:15:07.320
It's like, did he have this many headaches that like it was just known that he's gonna take Excedrin?
00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:13.720
Because to me, Excedrine isn't the one that you take a lot, it's more of like a Tylenol or Motrin, like you know what I mean?
00:15:13.800 --> 00:15:16.040
Like, okay, see, that's coming from a woman's point of view.
00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:18.040
The man's just gonna grab whatever is there.
00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:19.960
Yeah, but Excedrin's like for your head.
00:15:20.040 --> 00:15:23.000
So to like to me, anyways, continue on.
00:15:23.240 --> 00:15:27.080
So doctors and officials, as they always do when somebody dies, right?
00:15:27.159 --> 00:15:29.480
They look for the cause of death, they investigate.
00:15:29.720 --> 00:15:30.040
Really?
00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:32.759
Um, we don't, but they don't find any foul play or anything.
00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:37.240
He has a history of health issues, including respiratory problems.
00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:37.800
Oh.
00:15:38.120 --> 00:15:42.680
So they the doctors originally cite emphysema as his cause of death.
00:15:42.920 --> 00:15:43.240
Oh.
00:15:43.560 --> 00:15:53.639
So shortly after the Miss Stilla gets her insurance payout, it's about a hundred thousand dollars in 1986, which would be about$300,000 today.
00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:54.120
Okay.
00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:57.000
I think you can kind of put together where this is going.
00:15:57.240 --> 00:15:57.879
Yeah.
00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:05.480
Right now, Bruce's death is ruled medical tragedy, but then something happens that makes people start to question.
00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:09.879
And that is where we started this episode with the story of Susan Snow.
00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:12.600
So Susan simply dealing with a headache.
00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:13.159
Yeah.
00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:14.680
Many other millions of people.
00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:25.159
She takes a over-the-counter extra strength, etc., a widely trusted pill, and she becomes violently ill and dies, as we've previously discussed today.
00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:25.800
Okay.
00:16:26.040 --> 00:16:26.360
Okay.
00:16:26.680 --> 00:16:29.879
So this is a this death is also examined, right?
00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:35.080
The body is looked over, and the examiner catches a scent of bitter almonds.
00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:39.080
Which, by the way, there is a book about this whole thing, and it's called Bitter Almonds.
00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:39.639
Oh.
00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:45.399
Bitter almonds is an odor that is distinctive from cyanide.
00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:51.159
I feel like I I've heard of that, yeah, because that just sounds like the bitter almonds one sounds familiar.
00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:51.560
Okay.
00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:52.360
Wow, okay.
00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:54.840
So police start an investigation.
00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:56.200
The house is scoured.
00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:57.560
This is Susan's house.
00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:03.000
Um, and it turns out they find that the excedrant she had in her home was laced with cyanide.
00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:03.879
Okay, hold on.
00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:04.519
I'm so sorry.
00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:07.799
I I know I was listening, but I think my brain was just going too fast.
00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:10.759
So, how did we get to the bitter almonds part?
00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:14.599
So it was just like when Bruce died, right?
00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:17.559
Medical examiners are checking out her body and they catch the smell.
00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:19.240
Oh, they smelled it.
00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:20.359
Yeah, they smelled it.
00:17:20.519 --> 00:17:21.319
This is on Susan.
00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:22.599
Yes, yeah, you know, I know.
00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:23.960
So he already died.
00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:28.119
Yep, so they smell it on Susan, but then so then they investigate the house.
00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:33.879
Yeah, because the examiner's like I think because she was noble health issues before she was healthy.
00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:35.000
I just missed that part.
00:17:35.079 --> 00:17:35.240
Okay.
00:17:35.399 --> 00:17:35.719
Yep.
00:17:35.879 --> 00:17:36.199
Okay.
00:17:37.399 --> 00:17:40.279
So it it's obviously a poisoning, right?
00:17:40.519 --> 00:17:44.919
So Susan's story immediately strikes fear across the country.
00:17:45.159 --> 00:17:58.519
Not only because, like, hey, she bought a pill at a store and it was poisoned, but four years earlier in Chicago, at least seven people died when Tylenol had been uh laced with potassium cyanide.
00:17:59.480 --> 00:17:59.799
Okay.
00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:04.519
The worst part is though, is nobody was ever caught for the Chicago murders.
00:18:05.879 --> 00:18:10.599
Which that one would just make another good episode that I should get into at some point.
00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:18.519
Now, right, there's a murder, and people already have this fear of pharmaceuticals from somebody who was never caught before, right?
00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:20.359
We're for sure saying it's a murder.
00:18:20.439 --> 00:18:24.759
They don't think it was something that accidentally happened to the Excedrine or like in the making of it.
00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:31.319
Like I'm just saying, like they're not they're automatically jumping to because of what happened just four years ago, and nobody was ever caught.
00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:33.799
Okay, people are just like, Yeah, it got it.
00:18:33.959 --> 00:18:36.119
You don't accidentally lace excessive.
00:18:36.279 --> 00:18:37.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:18:37.159 --> 00:18:37.480
Okay.
00:18:37.719 --> 00:18:41.719
Um, so pe and people already have a fear of this, like it's embedded in the culture.
00:18:41.879 --> 00:18:46.119
And now, right, people are like super fearful it's gonna happen again.
00:18:46.199 --> 00:18:47.879
Like all these people are gonna start dying.
00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:58.359
So Susan's story breaks, public fear breaks out, no one knows if there's more bottles that have been tampered with, where she bought hers, or like where any more poison is.
00:18:58.839 --> 00:19:02.919
Anybody could be a victim, at least kind of what the thought was.
00:19:03.159 --> 00:19:09.399
Um, so folks start avoiding taking medication, they're returning them, they're demanding answers from the pharmaceutical company.
00:19:09.719 --> 00:19:14.919
So public fear turns into crisis, and police are like, we gotta get to the bottom of this.
00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:15.480
Okay.
00:19:15.719 --> 00:19:18.759
So Stella does something a little bit surprising here, though.
00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:19.399
Okay.
00:19:19.879 --> 00:19:25.079
Upon hearing about Susan's death on the news, she calls the police.
00:19:25.399 --> 00:19:30.279
She claims that her husband died of very similar symptoms when he had returned from work.
00:19:30.439 --> 00:19:38.359
And upon hearing about Susan, she went to go check the medicine cabinet and found that he had also taken excedrin extra strength.
00:19:38.679 --> 00:19:40.119
So she produces two bottles.
00:19:40.519 --> 00:19:41.559
Why would she say that?
00:19:41.879 --> 00:19:47.079
Why would she say, Oh, what did she count the goddamn Excedrins to know that he took it that day?
00:19:47.399 --> 00:19:49.879
Well, she knew that he took some medication.
00:19:50.119 --> 00:19:50.439
Okay.
00:19:50.599 --> 00:19:51.959
And it seemed very similar.
00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:53.159
So she called the police, right?
00:19:53.399 --> 00:20:01.000
Okay, gives him the two bottles she bought from the store, and that's tested, and his remains are tested, and they both come out positive for the case.
00:20:01.639 --> 00:20:11.639
The way you worded it, I straight up thought she was like, I my like, I thought she like was like, upon examining my cabinet, I believe he took the ex like you know what I mean.
00:20:11.719 --> 00:20:12.919
Like the way you said it was the shit.
00:20:13.639 --> 00:20:15.639
I that's kind of how she called it in.
00:20:15.879 --> 00:20:16.919
That's crazy.
00:20:17.159 --> 00:20:20.759
When we get further into this, you're gonna find out just how fucking crazy it is.
00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:23.959
So a massive recall is now done by the FDA.
00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:35.480
They pull all the Excedrin products from the Pacific Northwest and Alaska, and a total of two more bottles are found in stores, uh, both in the areas between Auburn and Seattle, Washington.
00:20:35.719 --> 00:20:38.119
You mean two more bottles that are laced?
00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:38.599
Yeah.
00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:39.240
Oh, okay.
00:20:39.399 --> 00:20:41.480
Yeah, so of all the bottles, they find two more.
00:20:41.719 --> 00:20:42.039
Okay.
00:20:42.199 --> 00:20:43.799
They have five total bottles.
00:20:43.959 --> 00:20:44.279
Okay.
00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:46.519
One in Seattle that Susan bought.
00:20:46.679 --> 00:20:47.000
Yep.
00:20:47.240 --> 00:20:49.719
Two that were in Stella's house.
00:20:49.959 --> 00:20:52.199
Oh, two in Stella's were laced.
00:20:52.439 --> 00:20:57.319
And two more that were still on the shelves in the areas between where both of them lived.
00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:00.759
Now, how did our girl get so lucky to get two laced bottles?
00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:05.480
Exactly, which is why the police start to get a little suspicious of our friend.
00:21:05.719 --> 00:21:07.000
What a freaking ding-dong.
00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:09.959
Okay, so remember Stella really likes her fish.
00:21:10.199 --> 00:21:10.679
Yeah.
00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:14.119
So when these bottles are tested, oh no.
00:21:14.359 --> 00:21:18.599
They also find some green flecks in cyanide powder.
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:26.599
These flecks were determined to be an algae side used in home aquariums and sold under the brand name the algae destroyer.
00:21:26.919 --> 00:21:35.079
So whatever she was using to crush up, allegedly, her algae killer, she also allegedly used to crush up some etc.
00:21:35.639 --> 00:21:39.079
So, right now, we got Bruce dying, right?
00:21:39.399 --> 00:21:45.480
A random death later, Stella calling the cops to say, I think my husband took the et cetera.
00:21:45.719 --> 00:21:47.079
Now you see why that call sounds weird.
00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:49.000
But why would she do that anyway?
00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:51.240
What do we think her thought process was?
00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:54.839
She has the fish tanks and she got her insurance payout.
00:21:54.919 --> 00:21:56.519
She's bored of her sober husband.
00:21:56.679 --> 00:21:58.599
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:21:58.759 --> 00:21:59.879
I know why she did that.
00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:04.199
I'm asking, what is her why would she fucking call the police after?
00:22:04.439 --> 00:22:06.679
Because the Chicago killer was never caught.
00:22:06.919 --> 00:22:07.240
So?
00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:14.039
No, if they had already ruled his death natural causes, I have no idea why.
00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:15.000
That's what I'm saying.
00:22:15.159 --> 00:22:17.240
I don't give a shit if who was caught or not.
00:22:17.399 --> 00:22:18.199
She got away with it.
00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:19.399
Shut your fucking mouth.
00:22:19.639 --> 00:22:27.879
I I think part of it might have been what if they start to look into these weird deaths, you know, and then I didn't say something.
00:22:27.959 --> 00:22:29.319
I I don't know why she did.
00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:30.359
Obviously, I'm glad she.
00:22:30.679 --> 00:22:31.719
She did because we wanted her to be a good idea.
00:22:31.879 --> 00:22:32.359
Allegedly.
00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:32.679
Yeah.
00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:33.240
Allegedly.
00:22:33.399 --> 00:22:34.359
Well, but you get what I'm saying.
00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:36.039
Like when I say stupid, like what?
00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:37.480
You moron, you got away.
00:22:37.719 --> 00:22:43.399
The these things are all linked, but there's no definitive proof that she messed with sedrum.
00:22:43.639 --> 00:22:48.919
Like it's like, you know, she could have been at the crime scene, but her fingerprints aren't on the knife, sort of deal.
00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:50.519
Like they don't have they they have a sort of thing.
00:22:53.879 --> 00:22:55.799
But but they don't have like the smoking gun.
00:22:55.879 --> 00:22:56.439
You know, right.
00:22:56.759 --> 00:22:58.359
They start to look into her more.
00:22:58.599 --> 00:23:05.480
Investigators do discover that she had checked out a book from the library, a toxicology-related reference book.
00:23:05.719 --> 00:23:06.359
Girl.
00:23:06.679 --> 00:23:13.480
Among that material that she checked out, there was information involving poisonous substances, including cyanide.
00:23:13.639 --> 00:23:24.759
This is so effing funny that the lot your library books got you like instead of your search history on your computer or your phone nowadays, the library, the books you check out.
00:23:24.919 --> 00:23:26.199
That is so funny.
00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:27.799
I love this.
00:23:28.039 --> 00:23:29.719
So they're building the case.
00:23:29.959 --> 00:23:35.799
They keep wanting her to take lie detector tests, and of course, she is refusing them multiple times.
00:23:36.439 --> 00:23:37.159
What's her reasoning?
00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:37.719
Do you know?
00:23:38.199 --> 00:23:42.359
It was always some excuse for she's also lawyered up at this point.
00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:43.879
Well, now because she's got money.
00:23:44.199 --> 00:23:51.719
She does fail the lie detector tests, and questions regarding purchasing cyanide when she finally takes it.
00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:52.039
Yeah.
00:23:52.199 --> 00:23:53.079
Oh, okay, okay.
00:23:53.319 --> 00:23:55.799
So we're still waiting though for the smoking gun.
00:23:56.119 --> 00:23:57.959
Now, she had charges before.
00:23:58.119 --> 00:24:00.119
Do you remember the one I told you to remember?
00:24:00.439 --> 00:24:00.759
Yeah.
00:24:01.079 --> 00:24:02.279
Beating her child.
00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:02.919
Mm-hmm.
00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:04.759
Cynthia comes forward.
00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:06.839
It was like my mom's a nut bag.
00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:14.119
In 1987, so a year after, uh, Cynthia approaches the police with information.
00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:23.319
She says her mother had reportedly spoken to her numerous times about wanting her husband dead, stating that she had grown bored with him because he had quit drinking.
00:24:23.719 --> 00:24:29.959
She even states on record that her mother had confessed to her that she tried to poison Bruce many times.
00:24:30.199 --> 00:24:34.759
Uh, once with a substance called foxglove, but all it did was cause him to be really drowsy.
00:24:34.919 --> 00:24:41.959
Uh you know what's so funny is that I was gonna say earlier, there's no way that this plan just like happened.
00:24:42.039 --> 00:24:44.119
Like she hadn't tried this many times.
00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:44.919
That's so funny.
00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:45.959
Cause I was gonna say that.
00:24:46.039 --> 00:24:52.119
Like, cause it's like the excedrin thing to me is like one of those things where it's like so specific, to me at least.
00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:54.199
Like, I'm not grabbing an excedrine.
00:24:54.279 --> 00:24:56.599
Like, it's very rare that Erin grabs her excedrine.
00:24:56.759 --> 00:24:59.319
So, like, if I'm trying to kill him, I would not poison the excedrin.
00:24:59.559 --> 00:25:02.439
Guarantee you she offered him the excedrin when he said he had a headache.
00:25:02.599 --> 00:25:03.719
Maybe, right?
00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:08.439
But like it's just so guaranteed allegedly, because we're gonna we're gonna poke some holes in this too.
00:25:08.599 --> 00:25:12.759
It's just funny though, because it's like clearly yeah, whatever.
00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:26.519
So her daughter goes on further to say her mom had even discussed with her going to the library to learn about other methods, and that the two of them had had conversations on how they were going to spend the insurance money.
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:35.399
You know that old, not really old, but that wonderful saving saying from our favorite gals see something, say something.
00:25:35.639 --> 00:25:36.279
For real.
00:25:36.519 --> 00:25:39.319
Like, what are you doing?
00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:40.039
I don't know.
00:25:40.679 --> 00:25:42.679
Did she say that she thought her mom was like kidding?
00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:43.879
Here's the thing, though.
00:25:43.959 --> 00:25:45.319
Uh, let me put a pin in it.
00:25:45.399 --> 00:25:45.719
I'll come back.
00:25:45.959 --> 00:25:46.679
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:25:46.839 --> 00:25:47.159
Okay.
00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:52.279
So prosecute prosecutors, prosecutors are now they're building their case, right?
00:25:52.359 --> 00:25:53.719
So it goes to trial.
00:25:53.879 --> 00:25:56.279
Uh, this is now the summer of 87.
00:25:56.599 --> 00:25:58.199
Stella with her lawyers, right?
00:25:58.279 --> 00:25:59.559
She she's already put it together.
00:25:59.639 --> 00:26:03.159
She's the prime suspect, but when they're building the case, she knows.
00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:08.359
So by December 9th, they do come and arrest her for the two deaths.
00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:15.480
But now the job of the prosecutors, still without any definitive proof, is to convince the jury she's guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
00:26:15.639 --> 00:26:17.639
So they argue she needed financial relief.
00:26:17.799 --> 00:26:20.439
She killed her husband to get it after taking out the policies.
00:26:20.599 --> 00:26:27.559
She studied the poison, spoke to family about it, and went as far as to tamper with three additional bottles to make it look like an earlier myrrh.
00:26:27.879 --> 00:26:28.199
Okay.
00:26:28.679 --> 00:26:32.599
So this move obviously it leads her to kill an innocent person.
00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:33.000
Yeah.
00:26:33.159 --> 00:26:34.439
To make her alibi stronger.
00:26:34.679 --> 00:26:35.959
And potentially two more.
00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:36.439
Yeah.
00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:40.039
And that's who knows how many people could have taken it, you know?
00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:40.839
Well, yeah.
00:26:41.079 --> 00:26:45.719
Um, because like you and me, we'd pop open a bottle after a night, I wouldn't just down it.
00:26:45.959 --> 00:26:46.359
Right.
00:26:46.599 --> 00:27:02.759
So Stella's defense tries to argue there's no eyewitness, there's no confession, there's no confirmed source of the cyanide, and that the timeline is just coincidence amplified by panic, and because the Chicago one went unsolved, they're trying to quickly point fingers.
00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:05.879
Which, I mean, that's a really good point.
00:27:06.279 --> 00:27:10.279
It's a good defense because they they don't have definitive proof.
00:27:10.359 --> 00:27:13.159
It's an easy, it's an easy one for a lawyer to defend, right?
00:27:13.399 --> 00:27:16.039
So Cynthia does testify at the trial.
00:27:16.199 --> 00:27:23.000
She talks about the research and the talks with her mom, and even says that at one point they had discussions of hiring a hit man.
00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:24.839
What the hell is going on?
00:27:25.079 --> 00:27:26.919
It's a very lengthy trial.
00:27:27.159 --> 00:27:36.039
And in 1988, the jury reaches a verdict and finds Stella guilty of both murders, and she receives a 90-year sentence.
00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:36.599
Okay.
00:27:37.399 --> 00:27:37.719
No.
00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:39.399
Come on.
00:27:39.559 --> 00:27:40.679
Well, you go first.
00:27:40.839 --> 00:27:41.480
I okay.
00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:47.240
I'm just saying if if we weren't going off of like the Cynthia thing, right?
00:27:47.480 --> 00:27:54.039
Like her talking about her mom saying all this stuff, I would probably be like, I don't know.
00:27:54.359 --> 00:28:00.839
Because it just and like I know the fish stuff is like that's pretty, but like still, I don't know.
00:28:01.079 --> 00:28:03.319
She wasn't the only one who had a fish tank.
00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:04.039
Well, right.
00:28:04.279 --> 00:28:06.359
So it's like that's a common brand.
00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:07.079
Right.
00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:08.919
So it's like, okay, whatever.
00:28:09.159 --> 00:28:10.759
And then I don't know.
00:28:10.919 --> 00:28:11.719
I don't know anyway.
00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:14.839
But I just like it's like, does she did she actually do it?
00:28:14.919 --> 00:28:25.799
Because it's like to me, it sounds so ignorant that I would call up the police though and be like, hey, you know, my husband actually passed away, blah blah blah, like whenever, and it's kind of seems the same thing.
00:28:25.879 --> 00:28:29.319
Like, I think he actually took a bottle of et cetera, and like I have them still.
00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:31.799
Like, I why would you do that?
00:28:32.039 --> 00:28:34.759
Like that that makes no sense to me at all.
00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:42.359
My thing is this I don't think she ever thought that they would have ruled it natural, but it was already done with her husband.
00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:44.199
So she had the plan, right?
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:51.159
But if the other bottles start getting and more and more people start having these deaths, what if they looked into her husband and then she never called?
00:28:51.319 --> 00:28:52.679
No, I actually I changed my mind.
00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:57.159
I know exactly what her thought process is, because then you can sue Excedrin, potentially.
00:28:57.399 --> 00:28:58.199
Potentially, yeah.
00:28:58.279 --> 00:29:02.839
She probably actually honestly, because that's the only that's the only thing I could think of.
00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:05.480
Now, here's the other scenario that I go to, though.
00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:13.319
If I'm Cynthia and I've got a crazy mom who beat me, I might lie to the cops about some shit that she said.
00:29:13.559 --> 00:29:16.119
I want you to hold on to that because that's the point we're gonna come back to.
00:29:16.279 --> 00:29:16.439
Okay.
00:29:16.679 --> 00:29:18.839
So right now we have circumstantial evidence, right?
00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:22.759
Prosecution argued pattern was too specific to be a coincidence.
00:29:22.919 --> 00:29:27.000
The defense said, uh, you kind of use interpretation to fill in the gap.
00:29:27.319 --> 00:29:29.879
How did they say that she distributed the rest of these?
00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:35.799
Uh that she just went to random stores between Seattle and where she lived and threw them on the shelves.
00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:37.399
Yep.
00:29:37.639 --> 00:29:42.359
But there's no camera, there's no no I mean, I guess that's where in the 80s.
00:29:42.599 --> 00:29:42.839
Okay.
00:29:43.159 --> 00:29:47.879
And and really, depending on how you look at it, like you've we've been saying, both sides really feel plausible.
00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:52.119
It's very plausible she did it, but it's also very plausible she did it, right?
00:29:52.359 --> 00:29:52.919
Right, right, right.
00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:53.159
Okay.
00:29:53.319 --> 00:29:55.799
Um, so that and that's why this case is still discussed.
00:29:55.879 --> 00:30:01.240
In fact, this is a huge one that they talk about in a lot of law schools and stuff because like it makes sense.
00:30:03.879 --> 00:30:18.519
Now, I I do think that Stella more than likely did this, but Cynthia Hamilton was paid a reward of$250,000 for her help in the case against her mom.
00:30:18.759 --> 00:30:23.319
The reward money came from a drug manufacturer's trade association.
00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:26.279
We have a vendetta against them for the way she treated us.
00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:28.279
Wait, why did they give her that?
00:30:28.519 --> 00:30:31.639
Uh, for helping them catch the real killer.
00:30:32.199 --> 00:30:40.439
But like you said, right, if she was planning to sue Excedrin and Excedrin was really behind this somehow, why wouldn't they pay off the daughter?
00:30:40.759 --> 00:30:42.519
I mean, I guess that does make sense.
00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:43.159
Mm-hmm.
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:57.159
To offer whatever then there's some detectives who have dug into this and they uh discovered an FBI memo that seems to play down some things found among a thousand pages and that were turned over to the defense.
00:30:57.240 --> 00:31:04.039
And in these documents, there are reports about all their possible suspects and mysterious fingerprints on Sue Snow's bottle.
00:31:04.279 --> 00:31:06.279
Who were the suspects, or we don't know?
00:31:06.599 --> 00:31:07.639
We don't really know.
00:31:08.119 --> 00:31:08.519
Wow.
00:31:08.839 --> 00:31:18.039
Um it's weird to write that Stella had two out of the five bottles, but both her bottles were bought from the store, same store at the same time.
00:31:18.439 --> 00:31:21.879
So if it was random, she very easily could have gotten both.
00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:23.079
Yeah, no, for sure.
00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:34.919
I'm just thinking because the other bottles were spread out distance-wise from where those are, you'd think that if that was the case, two two bottles wouldn't be put at the same place, but who's to say it wouldn't?
00:31:35.159 --> 00:31:36.919
Who's to say it's all circumstantial?
00:31:37.159 --> 00:31:40.359
Then let's go back to the algae piece for a second.
00:31:40.519 --> 00:31:44.279
So she had a hobby, right, where she could have to ask us the product.
00:31:44.439 --> 00:31:46.039
The product was never found in your home.
00:31:46.279 --> 00:31:47.639
Let me ask about this product.
00:31:47.879 --> 00:31:55.159
Because to me, I thought like the algae stuff is like liquid that you put in the algae killer, but you're saying she had to break it up.
00:31:55.399 --> 00:31:57.879
This particular product was a solid that would dissolve.
00:31:58.119 --> 00:32:00.039
But I still don't know if you're breaking it up.
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:01.480
Wouldn't you just put it in the tank?
00:32:01.639 --> 00:32:10.759
Because you were like what you said is like who like maybe she used the same item to break up the crush up that that you'd crush up the um excedrin.
00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:15.480
It it seems like this was like a concentrate, like a big piece you had to like break it off.
00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:17.639
So the product was never found in her home.
00:32:17.959 --> 00:32:23.319
Stella's neighbor, Sandy Scott, she becomes a spy piece for the FBI.
00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:30.839
Well she was paid$7,500 to search Stella's home for the allergy destroyer, which she never found.
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:32.519
They just paid her to go into her house.
00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:33.719
I didn't know that was a thing.
00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:41.480
So a lot of this stuff is covered in the book Bitter Almonds, which seems at times to be a defense for Stella.
00:32:41.799 --> 00:32:42.119
Okay.
00:32:42.439 --> 00:32:47.480
The person who wrote Bitter Almonds is one of the few who got a lot of interviews with her in person.
00:32:47.719 --> 00:32:48.039
Okay.
00:32:48.519 --> 00:32:58.839
Um, so uh there's this case is wild because it's just there's so much circumstantial, there's so much evidence on both sides of people who paid off and this and that.
00:32:58.919 --> 00:33:03.559
And it's just I I I totally think Stella is the killer here.
00:33:03.719 --> 00:33:13.879
Um But I think it's important to even in something that seems cut and dry, that the way the narrative plays out and what evidence is produced and what's hidden can change a case.
00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:16.519
And I don't know if I would say that this is cut and dry.
00:33:16.679 --> 00:33:20.599
I mean, I I think that she did it only because there's major factors, right?
00:33:20.919 --> 00:33:33.399
The life insurance, like multiple policies, the you know, claims against her daughter in the past, like, you know, her daughter saying this, like, okay, we don't have to take that, but whatever.
00:33:33.639 --> 00:33:38.599
She does love for fish tanks, that this product she could have used at a time, got rid of it.
00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:41.799
Who's to say she didn't at one point have that in her home?
00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:46.199
So, I mean, to me, all of those are just like too coincidental.
00:33:46.439 --> 00:34:04.919
But then also, it's just one of those things where it's very strange, also to me, if my mom was talking all this nonsense, really truly, like saying I'm gonna hire a hitman, I want to kill Rich, I want to do all of these things for a while prior to this.
00:34:05.159 --> 00:34:06.679
I would literally tell somebody.
00:34:06.919 --> 00:34:12.280
But remember, too, the daughter at one point says we were talking about how we were gonna spend the insurance money.
00:34:12.440 --> 00:34:13.480
But then why would you tell them?
00:34:13.880 --> 00:34:15.480
Stella is really this much of a monster.
00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:18.440
Who's to say Cynthia didn't far fall that far from the tree?
00:34:18.599 --> 00:34:21.159
I know, but like to just I don't know.
00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:22.039
I don't know.
00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:23.559
Now, do we know?
00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:32.440
Sorry, do we know if that money was offered like as a reward for like, hey, if anyone could come forward, was that like a public thing?
00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:39.239
Like where she would have read about that and been like, ooh, I'm gonna try to like you know, I'm gonna be honest with you, I didn't do to look at that.
00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:39.880
That's okay.
00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:43.559
I was just curious if you knew that would be good to know because that would be something else, too.
00:34:43.639 --> 00:34:45.559
That it's like, okay, there's this reward money.
00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:47.880
I'm gonna lie and say my mom fucking did it.
00:34:48.199 --> 00:34:56.839
Could be something we could learn more about because the final coincidence in this story, and I started talking about it, is I was out shopping in my new neighborhood.
00:34:57.079 --> 00:34:58.279
I went to this vintage store.
00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:04.759
We met this lovely, lovely woman named Tabitha, um, who gave us a ton of free stuff.
00:35:04.839 --> 00:35:07.000
She gave us some hot honey almonds and some.
00:35:07.319 --> 00:35:09.559
Oh, I heard about all of this, and I'm so jealous.
00:35:09.799 --> 00:35:13.880
So I was telling her about the podcast, and she goes, My uncle was killed.
00:35:14.119 --> 00:35:16.039
Mmm, it was her uncle.
00:35:16.360 --> 00:35:18.360
Have you ever heard of Stella Nichols?
00:35:18.599 --> 00:35:29.159
So I have met the niece of Bruce Nichols, who told me that I need to write the story because some things point Stella in a really good light, others in really bad light.
00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:33.559
But she would be able to give some pretty personal follow-ups after I write it.
00:35:33.799 --> 00:35:34.920
So my next one.
00:35:35.079 --> 00:35:36.759
So she so you don't know anything.
00:35:37.239 --> 00:35:39.799
I told her I didn't want her opinion.
00:35:39.880 --> 00:35:41.559
I wanted to go into it totally blind.
00:35:41.719 --> 00:35:42.519
I love that.
00:35:42.839 --> 00:35:47.079
And uh now I'm gonna send Miss Tabitha a message, or maybe I'll go see her this weekend.
00:35:47.239 --> 00:35:47.639
Yeah.
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:49.639
And we're gonna get some more details.
00:35:49.799 --> 00:35:51.000
So I don't know yet.
00:35:51.159 --> 00:35:53.480
She might call in, she might stop by.
00:35:53.639 --> 00:35:54.119
We'll see.
00:35:54.279 --> 00:35:57.319
We'll see the best way to have Tabitha come and talk to us.
00:35:57.480 --> 00:35:59.079
Okay, and what is her business?
00:35:59.319 --> 00:36:03.239
Her business is called Shack to Sheik L L C.
00:36:03.639 --> 00:36:04.360
Oh my god.
00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:08.839
Um, and so we're here in Phoenix, Arizona on 7th Avenue in the Melrose District.
00:36:08.920 --> 00:36:10.599
If you're nearby and you want to check it out.
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:11.880
Shack to Sheik.
00:36:12.039 --> 00:36:13.960
I love Shack to Sheik.
00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:14.599
Yes.
00:36:14.839 --> 00:36:15.159
Cute.
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:18.199
So yeah, we'll be hearing more from Tabitha, hopefully.
00:36:18.440 --> 00:36:19.239
That's so fun.
00:36:19.319 --> 00:36:20.119
I'm excited.
00:36:20.279 --> 00:36:24.920
I also just spilt my drink absolutely over all of my electronic cart.
00:36:25.159 --> 00:36:26.119
So I'm panicking.
00:36:26.519 --> 00:36:27.239
No, it's okay.
00:36:27.319 --> 00:36:27.880
We're good.
00:36:28.199 --> 00:36:28.920
Sorry.
00:36:29.239 --> 00:36:29.880
You're good.
00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:34.279
I wanted to give the listeners an inside scoop.
00:36:34.759 --> 00:36:36.599
So yeah, but sounds crazy on her end.
00:36:36.679 --> 00:36:37.799
Kira's spilling.
00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:40.519
Anyways, though, I I thought that one was super interesting.
00:36:40.599 --> 00:36:53.159
I remember hearing about it a long time ago, and uh, she was telling me one time, Tabitha, that because this was on Unsolved Mysteries in like the late 90s, that she was on a date and this episode came out, and she was like mortified.
00:36:53.239 --> 00:36:56.920
She used to be mortified about it, and now she like Oh my god.
00:36:57.079 --> 00:36:58.199
Yeah, I'm so sorry.
00:36:58.279 --> 00:37:03.799
You and I are such like opposite people where we'd be like, if we were on a date and that came out, we'd be like, dude, that's my uncle.
00:37:04.119 --> 00:37:04.599
Right.
00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:06.279
I mean, hey, it was sad.
00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:15.719
This was also before true crime was like as popular too, and like yeah, so anyway, so we'll get to more details for this episode.
00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:17.880
I think is there a fishbowl?
00:37:18.119 --> 00:37:25.480
I think fishbowl emoji for the the algae killers because I don't know if there's like medicine, but yeah, fish fish bowls, cute.
00:37:25.719 --> 00:37:29.319
With that, I do have a little follow-up of Reddit stories for us.
00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:33.239
So if you are a paid Patreon, oddball, head on over.
00:37:33.319 --> 00:37:35.719
We'll have a little fun follow-up for you guys.
00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:37.079
I don't know, it's getting late.
00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:39.960
It's time to do some side work, shut this place down for the evening.
00:37:40.039 --> 00:37:42.839
What else do we need to do before we close the shop up for the day?
00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:47.319
Rate and review, share us with your friends, family members, all the things.
00:37:47.480 --> 00:37:49.880
Don't take a sedron if the seal's been broken.
00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:55.079
And and the most important thing you can do for us is to creep it really, little outballs.
00:37:55.239 --> 00:37:55.480
Bye.