Neil Callanan: All right, today on measured impact, are joined by Charlie Clark, the director of philanthropy for Cotopaxi, an outdoor company behind the gear for good promise. Cotopaxi is a certified B Corp and a public benefit corporation that uses its businesses for communities experiencing poverty. Through the Cotopaxi foundation, the company distributes at least 1 % of annual revenue through grants to nonprofit partners working across health, education, livelihoods and humanitarian response. Charlie helps lead The foundation's grant making strategy and operations bring experience from across outdoor philanthropy and the nonprofit sectors. And today we're talking about how purpose led brands can fund social change responsibly, use data without losing context and turn good intentions into measurable impact. Charlie, welcome.
Charlie Clark: Awesome. Thank you so much, Neil. Super excited to be here. Thank you for having me.
Neil Callanan: So I like to start with an easy Tell us who you are, what your job title is, and where you live.
Charlie Clark: I do know that. So, yep, my name is Charlie. I'm the director of philanthropy at Cotopaxi. that essentially means that I am running the Cotopaxi Foundation. So we do a lot of stuff that we would put under the umbrella of impact. One of them is philanthropy and poverty alleviation. And so that is my purview. I live in Portland, Oregon. Lived here for now I guess yeah six years 2020 uh and I grew up here so it's been fun coming back and getting back into the food scene and everything and I started working for Cotopaxi in 2021 as a contractor and now here we are.
Neil Callanan: So for who are less familiar, what would we know Cotopaxi as? ⁓
Charlie Clark: Yeah, I mean, you probably I would say the number one thing is you probably know them as the super colorful color blocked bags that you see at the airport. like the number one thing I get that comments on. But, um if you dig a little bit deeper, you would know us as the "do good brand." a lot of incredible outdoor brands who do ⁓ so much great work. but the "do-good" tagline is slapped across a lot of our stuff. And it covers a lot of things. mean, we focus on our internal folks, kind of that people first mentality. The company itself was started back in 2014 as a vehicle for positive social change. It was our founder, Davis Smith. grew up in Ecuador and saw a lot of need there knew that he wanted to create something that was an engine ⁓ change that would impact folks beyond what he was able to just like give personally over his lifetime. ⁓ I don't think he knew what he wanted to make. He just knew he wanted to start a brand, start a company ⁓ and that could turn into a movement and that could fuel change. So we are the outdoor brand who kind of you where you are. You know, we're not the ones you up Everest you're not gonna grab our stuff and go red point the first, ⁓ you know, amazing you see but ⁓ we want everyone be able to access the outdoors, be able to access adventure, travel, ⁓ get out, see the but then also make it better, right? So you're experiencing new places, new things, challenging yourself, but challenging yourself by meeting someone new, something new, ⁓ eating something that you've never eaten before. And then also when you're in that place, whether it's your neighborhood park or somewhere across the globe, ⁓ are also giving back ⁓ some way, giving energy, your time, that kind of thing, and then sharing your experiences.
Neil Callanan: So give me a feel for you personally. how did you get into sort of the philanthropy side of stuff or the impact side? ⁓ what ⁓ of brought you ⁓ that, that space.
Charlie Clark: Yeah, totally. So, you know, a little bit of a winding path as I'm sure a lot of us have after college. I kind of, I've just bummed around a little bit in the outdoor industry, working at gear shops and guiding and that kind of thing. It had a pretty obviously strong connection to the places that I was recreating in and that I loved for the beauty, for the, you know, ecological importance, for how connected they were to the communities that I was in. then after a while, kind of realized like maybe a little bit more serious about and realized that think where I wanted to be was ⁓ in a where I could ⁓ help these places and kind bring to the forefront the connection that they between health of communities, ⁓ but then also just general societal health. and fun. So I was just kicking around trying to figure out what to do. Like, what does that mean? Do I, you know, I love nature documentaries. Does that mean I have to go back and become a biologist? I'm terrible at math. I was kind of felt stuck. ⁓ I was looking around at the time I was working for Patagonia, a great, you know, great competitor of ours, but also a great partner in, you know, industry coalitions and that kind of thing. ⁓ I think everyone's very familiar with their very robust and funding efforts. Their conservation efforts are legendary, very well known, but I feel like less people know that they do the same thing at a local level. So I was working at the local Seattle store and they have a grant making ⁓ program, local grant making they give each store. some money and then local organizations can apply and ⁓ being a part of that process was incredible and I think that was when it kicked off and I was like, ⁓ working these people are ⁓ passionate, they're so brilliant, ⁓ they have the drive that I feel like that I ⁓ really see myself getting into ⁓ line of work. And looked around, turned out right in my own backyard, Seattle University offered a master's in nonprofit leadership. So long story short, ⁓ went At the time, I was just kind of white guy doing white guy conservation stuff. being in that program was huge wake up call and an incredible time for me. They had zero, zero ⁓ focus on environmental sustainability, conservation, anything. It was almost exclusively social justice and equity focused coursework along with the of standard, almost MBA like how to run an organization, etc. and met some incredible people in that program. And I think I learned a lot as well about the between oppressed communities, underserved communities, ⁓ the ⁓ through that I wanted to take through, and just the links ⁓ So then kind of became. ⁓ I was like, okay, I've been thinking about this as just like, let's conserve empty land so we can go play on it. But then I my world expanded a little bit. I got to work with some really incredible nonprofits that point too on different projects. And at the time I was working for a now partner of Cotopaxi's called MiIR, another great brand, doing really cool impact work. And kind of soon as I graduated from that program got to work on that company's grant making program and build that out a little bit ⁓ and Annie Eagle who's the VP of sustainability and impact here at Cotopaxi met her through a MiiR Cotopaxi partnership when I left MiiR sent out the email saying, hey, you know, I'm off on my own. She immediately emailed me back and was like, At Cotopaxi we've got so much going on, so much impact work that I could really use a second pair of hands. And that's sort of, that's a medium length version of it. I could go shorter, I could probably go longer, but you don't want me to.
Neil Callanan: Yeah. Well, let me hear ⁓ kind your thoughts on, you know, personal journey was clearly you were motivated to decide to do some good at some point, right? Like whenever that switch was made for ⁓ I'm curious was it chance or intention or, you know, circumstance that sort of led you to thinking about having your own personal impact via a brand and a business rather than ⁓ working directly with a nonprofit or, ⁓ how you, ⁓ how did get to where ⁓ you are And how did you start thinking about that? ⁓
Charlie Clark: Yeah, that's a really great question. Growing up, my mom worked for a nonprofit, ⁓ like a family mediation nonprofit. So I think she was in some pretty tough situations in terms of looking at families, having a go of it. so I kind of saw, in addition to that, watching her work through these like really, really challenging moments, things at work. And then also her her organization, having to also fundraise for their jobs while they're dealing with this really, really intense work. And then on the backside of that, not getting paid all that much for all of their incredible work, the brilliant stuff that they were doing. I think that That was maybe like the first seed of just being like, wow, I feel like there could be a better way to do things, when ⁓ people are kind giving so much of themselves. And then the opportunity to through that learn kind of the ins and outs of fundraising. the program, but then also the just like connecting with the people who are doing all of this stuff. ⁓ was just like, there is, it like ⁓ the nonprofit relationship so ⁓ always, not, is a generalization, but ⁓ it's broken in a of ways. And at the time I working for this brand, MiiR that their thing was very, very similar to Cotopaxi's. It's of revenue going social impact and environmental impact And I saw if I'm lucky enough to be in this funder seat, then I can take everything that I have learned working for nonprofits, you know, worked for one just out of school. And everything I learned from, you know, growing up watching my mom, plus everything that I've learned from these incredible professors that were active, in the industry brought in to teach us, as well as my cohort of students. I can be a better funder. I can try and set an example for how corporate giving can be better than a greenwashing marketing pitch. It can be better than even the best intentioned ones. And I wanted to take all the learnings and then parlay them into better relationships with nonprofits, trying to sure that it is beyond like best practices for funding, but best practices for receiving the funds and making that ⁓ loop a true partnership and not just a transactional I think.
Neil Callanan: Yeah, it sounds like your lived experience sort of aligned a little bit with sort what you were seeing in the space.
Charlie Clark: Yeah, that and the lived experiences of others that I was learning from, I think is a big part of it too, yeah.
Neil Callanan: Yeah. Well, I'm curious as know, talk about Cotopaxi. From my understanding, your philanthropic efforts and a of your impact work is through Cotopaxi Foundation. Give us a feel for just like the setup. what does your team look like? You mentioned Angie. ⁓ How you guys sort of ⁓ interact with the brand? I think, One of the reasons we talk about this is a lot of the ⁓ folks that we are talking to on this podcast and conversations we're having, ⁓ the setups are kind of different at brand, right? Like how, how close together the ⁓ brand marketers are the ⁓ philanthropic folks, the impact people, to the doing the work. So give us a feel on ⁓ what that looks like at Cotopaxi.
Charlie Clark: Yeah. Yeah, great question. mean, it is and In talking to industry colleagues and stuff and things look so different, even though we're doing very similar work sometimes, sometimes not, but it is, it's fascinating to look across different brands and see how things are set up. So the way that we, at impact in the broadest sense is we've got kind of "Do Good" slash whatever impact at the very top. Then and I kind of bifurcate it, she's in charge of our impact generally, but what she focuses on is sustainability, decarbonization and climate. So looking at like materials, sustainability, and then also supply chain sustainability, supply chain human rights, and just kind like our level governance as well. And then I am focused % on the nonprofit relationships, the philanthropy and the poverty alleviation work. Those are our two biggest buckets of impact. I think we also would say that the work with our employees, our people is one of that as well. And then we are the only two, technically the only two people who actually work on the impact team. Annie works obviously closely with our product development team, our product teams, our people team. I mean, when you're talking about material sourcing and sustainability, they are incredible partners for her. And then I work very, very closely with our brand team because... ⁓ One of the things I think, you probably, I mean, you're a storyteller, we're on this podcast right now. One of the most important things about impact in general is actually being able to then share the story of what's actually happening. I mean, you can look at it in a lot of different ways. Numbers can tell a story for sure. You can also go more of a qualitative route and focus on an individual who has been changed by a certain program or an intervention. But I work very closely with those folks to bring what we're doing to life. And it's a, you know, I think, especially in this industry, it's a tricky line to walk. You know, we're selling products, right, that are, they are expensive because they are really well made, really thoughtfully designed. And, you know, they're for a purpose. I people love them. People use them all the time. We can repair them. They're, they're fantastic. And, know, do you juxtapose that with the work that the foundation is doing, working with our partners who are working with communities experiencing extreme poverty, you know, that, that often can be ⁓ a hard to look at in a marketing email or something like that. ⁓ So, really, grateful for my partnership with our brand team who is So understanding, you know, in terms of what is best practices, how to talk about vulnerable populations, how to talk about the work spotlight, really spotlight our partners, not just like, oh, Cotopaxi does this, Cotopaxi does that, we're so great, but really, truly focusing on the people who are doing the work. So I would say that's sort of. There's only two of us on the team specifically, but we each have really, really important partners within the brand who are helping our initiatives come to life, both internally and externally.
Neil Callanan: So in that sense, sounds like for you like most ⁓ sort of mission-driven brands, the storytelling element of it a core function of being able get the out. So I'm curious as you guys are about developing those stories, whether they're qualitative or it's quantitative and you're making infographics talking about change or whatever it is, right? Like, How do you look at measuring amount of folks who are impacted in some way by that story or exposed that story? ⁓ how do you measure the response to sort of say, hey, this seemed to ⁓ really connect with audience, maybe a little bit better than this other story, right? Like just from a more traditional storytelling element, how do you guys think gauging whether or not something really resonated with your audience?
Charlie Clark: Mmm, I see. Yeah. That's a great question. And if you have someone who has the perfect answer, please let me know. No, mean, I think mainly I'd say that just because we are always having this conversation I don't think there is an end. You it's just like, how can we improve on capturing whether consumer or insights on what, you know, did or didn't hit with audiences. I mean, I think ⁓ basic level just who how many people are engaging with this story versus that story. we have series. called Mission Monday. So every Monday we will go out with some story on an impact story. So whether that is ⁓ on a partner's ⁓ ⁓ project that has completed and it's a celebration of that completion a new initiative that we're focusing on with cleaner chemicals, something like that. some sort of story lives in our impact ⁓ kind of wheelhouse. And we will monitor the response and engagement to those posts. ⁓ And so we do a sense of what our audience is engaging the most with. And I think we over the years have done more ⁓ pointed sort of like insight and stakeholder insight surveys and assessments, that kind of thing. it is interesting. It's not always what you might think is resonating is the actual thing that people are really, into. I think it's interesting to us, the whole philanthropy and poverty alleviation, that's ⁓ reason that the company was started. ⁓ is one the core kind of hallmarks of impact program, but the average ⁓ does not know for that. ⁓ And it's like the fourth thing they think of when you mention Cotopaxi. it's, I mean, the bright color is the number one, then it might be sustainable fabric or something, or maybe bright color, then it's just "do good" You know, they know that message. Then the sustainability of like our deadstock. Fabric Program, our Del Dia line, is, ⁓ it's We've got things coming every day from that line. And that was kind of the line that really gained us some notoriety and people saw it. It's hard to miss actually. But then that poverty alleviation piece, you dig down a little bit deeper follow us very closely, I think the average consumer isn't. engaging with those stories quite as much for some reason. So that is something like got some kind of fresh ⁓ brand and marketing energy in the last six months, new leadership and some teams are being out in a way that's pretty exciting. I think some new structures that we've had. So we are actually now in a position to start measuring a little bit of this ⁓ even more than we have in the past. So maybe we'll follow up in a year, six months or something, and I'll let you know what we've learned since then. But ⁓ it a slow, I mean, it's a slow process. We, a lot of time and energy we want to spend on how do we grow the business. And so we're doing insights on that, product specific insights. But then we also know that we've got to bring this side along with it.
Neil Callanan: you'll have it all solved. So I guess my question that you sort of teed up for me is if say % of your customer base ⁓ is unaware your core mission, is that a
Charlie Clark: I would say yes and no. I think, again, a couple ways you can look at it, suppose. I think the core of the company, the only thing anyone knew about the company is that we were mission-driven, we have values that people align with, and that they could feel really good and very comfortable. And like they were even maybe making a difference by purchasing something that we make. I think at the end of the day, that would be a win. You know, like if ⁓ many companies kind of, have their core brand and then they tack on an impact thing on the side and you might see that campaign or something like But then that's not what you're thinking about when you look at that brand. But if when people see our brand, if they think about vibrancy and ⁓ positive impact, like that's good with me. My job, I'm the nerd, Annie and I like to joke that we're the subject matter nerds. If I know in my heart that what we're doing is creating real measurable metrics-backed impact somewhere in the world and real communities are being lifted out of poverty, take that all day if our company is also growing. Our next frontier ⁓ where is the breakdown? Where is that disconnect? And then how do we bridge it? And I think I mentioned, you know, maybe this is just like a cop out of an answer, but this new structure we're building on our brand team, the focus for the next, I mean, just ongoing into the future, but really for this next six months is how do we better integrate that story in a way that there's really some, an entry point for every type of customer. Are you the person who just saw us? because we launched new ads on Instagram TikTok ⁓ and you are like, whoa, they "do good." Are you the person who wants to dig down a little bit deeper? Do you want to look at individual human stories that we're pulling from Latin America or one of the groups who work here in the US? Or do you want to see ⁓ exactly what chemicals using because we got rid of the PFAS stuff and you want like all of that information should be available to whoever wants to go. as deep as they want to go. But how do you make so all of that stuff is ⁓ digestible, sort of fun? you know, you're looking at a tax document and you're trying to find the small print. Like we want to make it available. ⁓ We want to make it digestible. And so sort of our, that's going to the challenge of the next little bit here is integrating everything in a way. ⁓ Because there's so much. think that's one of our problems too. It's like there is so much ⁓ how do we bring it out to the right audience at the right time.
Neil Callanan: Yeah. Do you have a sense that on your team, maybe it's on the brand team, it's on leadership team, is the commitment to doing good, right? It's, it's core core of who you guys are. But I also sense just in the way you describe all that, there's like a, true sense that also by doing good, we'll probably actually sell some more stuff and people will like our products more and people will be more committed to our brand. Do have any way to know if that's ⁓ actually or it's happening or less, or ⁓ is your ⁓ whatever brand brand affinity brand ⁓ loyalty? Like, do you guys have. ⁓
Charlie Clark: Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah.
Neil Callanan: any tangible numbers or metrics that allow you to look at like, hey, yeah, like we told these stories and we create this good product and those combinations together mean this, here's what we're seeing the growth is up or this is how this or this impact work is impacting people's relationship with our brand. Is there a numeric measurable way that you guys can digest that impact at all?
Charlie Clark: Yeah, great question. I'm not the best person to answer that for you just because that would be some of our the folks who are more focused on kind of like brand promotion and that kind of thing. However, I do know there's a couple of things that we do look at for sure. And there's also like there are other, you know, there are bigger companies that have studies that definitely show and I'm not talking about like brands, but you know, research. research groups, think tanks and that kind of thing, do show that especially people of certain age group if there are two products, they're more likely to buy one that aligns with their values, ⁓ whether that is conservation minded, mean, you can look Patagonia's entire arc see some of that.
Neil Callanan: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie Clark: One thing that we do know is as we grow as a company, we have an extremely high net promoter score of So once a consumer comes in and buys something of ours, they will not just maybe purchase again, ⁓ which great, we'll take it, ⁓ but are actually actively broadening the Cotopaxi community through their own social posts. We get much re-engagement with like a product comes out and kind of like my God, I've had for so long. This is incredible. And then people, you can see that through So the net promoter score and those types of things like the loyalty scores are very high. ⁓ And then our unaided awareness. That's the number where we're like, gosh, there's so much growth here. Like we are, we are barely scratching the surface. You know, we're big in certain States. We've got a lot of the West coasts, you know, we're, we're pretty well known there. But there's so many conversations I have that I, I never go in assuming people know who we are just because I've had both sides where I'll, I'll say, have actually it's a, and everyone's like, oh yeah, are you kidding me? I love it. I have so many pieces. And then other people, you know, if, if I'm talking to a lot of people from Southeast or the Midwest where we don't have a lot of retail locations and we're newer, then it's more of a conversation. yes, we do have different metrics that tell us that once people know brand, know the mission, they tend to stick with us for the remainder of their outdoor gear buying lives. And then we go with that. Also those broader industry looks at mission-driven companies and the and that choice factor.
Neil Callanan: Yeah, a really neat way to think about, you know, how you guys are balancing that you're doing a lot of things, it seems like, across the activism and the side. So I guess ⁓ one of the I have, you guys reported, you know, that you've reached millions of people through property alleviation work. How do you know that? ⁓ How do you measure that? are you, how is that not a glamour metric that... ⁓
Charlie Clark: Yeah, great question. Great question. Yeah, absolutely. So this is another point. I mentioned a little while back, our grantee partners ⁓ credit, spotlighting them, ⁓ aren't the ones on the ground doing the work with communities. So we want to make sure that the credit goes to partners. also trust our partners a deal. I wouldn't say we ascribed every single tenant of it, but there's a practice called trust-based philanthropy. If you're not familiar with it, head to the Trust-Based Philanthropy Project. it's an incredible group. It's sort of kind of re-thinking the way that funders and grantees work together and putting kind of the onus on funders to lower the barriers to actually creating real impact on the ground. So when you think about it, you know, ⁓ it's the kind of lowering barriers ⁓ like paperwork barriers. ⁓ you, do we have 50 page proposal going to cause a full-time head count to spend three weeks just focusing on that when that full-time count could have actually been doing work? that actually created real impact, that kind of thing, you know, ⁓ making your funding unrestricted, right? So it's like if we just said you can only buy shovels with this $50,000 ⁓ that you can dig the line for new clean water pipeline. And then great, we bought five grand worth of shovels. Now what do we do? we gonna just re buy when they break or are we gonna be able to use that to then pivot ⁓ to ⁓ there's something in the project that we didn't realize was gonna happen. We have to shore up this ⁓ concrete pad because ⁓ you there was a landslide. Well, we can't use that money from Cotopaxi for that. So I guess we're stuck in this project stalled, ⁓ right? like that kind of thing. You would never in I mean you you've founded multiple businesses, right? If a was paying you and they were like here, thank you for this service, here's this money that we owe you and you can only use it for the desks in your office. You'd be like, yeah, you'd be like, that's insane. I don't wanna run a business like that and nonprofits don't wanna run their businesses like that or their organization.
Neil Callanan: You can buy paper with this stuff. Yeah. as someone who's the of a couple of nonprofits in the past, what I would say is that my understanding today ⁓ is if you do that for a while, right? Like you're that space in the nonprofit space for any amount of time, the more likely you are to say like, Hey, you've got to find the groups who are doing good and then them ⁓ what they need and get the hell out of the way. Right. And, ⁓ you our.
Charlie Clark: Yeah, right, yes, right.
Neil Callanan: adage, the most recent one was group called the I IMABLE Foundation. did sort of adaptive equipment grants for athletes had, you know, whether they're cognitive or physical disability. And, you know, we get so many people to support a physical piece of equipment, right? $10,000 hand ⁓ cycle, But what really need people to $10 classes, adaptive fitness classes, and, you know,
Charlie Clark: Yeah.
Neil Callanan: coaches and teachers and all the things, right? one the things we took on was the idea that if we could tell those stories a little bit better, can make people ⁓ have way to connect with it. In some cases, basically just saying like the whole of everybody wants to fund a school, but nobody wants to pay a teacher. I think in this space, both in the nonprofit side and also on that in the activism side,
Charlie Clark: Yeah.
Neil Callanan: If your customers don't understand what and how you're gonna be using this funds in a way that is collaborative and impactful, then I feel like you end up defaulting too. And so we raised money for the United Way and we did this kind of more genericized impact. And I think at some level, there's a creativity that's required to be able to tell stories well that people can get behind ⁓ help them understand that, yes, it's easy to say we need to build.
Charlie Clark: Yeah. Yeah.
Neil Callanan: three miles of new clean water infrastructure. But if you can tell a story about how access to clean water has changed a village or changed a school or changed a thing, then I think people are a little less precious about where their money is going. Right? Like how can we, how can we support? We just want to support the end result. And if you can't tell the end result, if you can't illustrate it, it's really hard for people to get behind it so then they default to, well, you need some shovels, right? Here's 50 shovels.
Charlie Clark: Totally. Yeah, right. Exactly. I mean, it's, it's, I do the through line, so I'll get back to ⁓ where I going with that. But it is, way less sexy say funded training that went over ⁓ three weeks ⁓ and included, you know, paying five trainers visit three communities. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah.
Neil Callanan: There was 24 bagels provided at lunch and you know.
Charlie Clark: Exactly, and it's like all these little things, they matter so much when you could say like, we were the ones ⁓ built that school or something like that. So part of trusting our partners to do the work that they're doing and the shared accountability ⁓ is also trusting them to report what they're doing. Right? And in a pretty, you know, want there to be trust. We want them to have the flexibility to fund what they really need to fund to create the change that they're working on. But we're still asking what's right? And we, you know, we don't always get to visit every site personally, but, we've been to Ecuador looking at the projects that our partners are likely getting ahead to Guatemala where there's another cluster of nonprofits that we're working with. so we are using their very robust ⁓ that's already in place. I mean, we're not the only funders that they have. ⁓ of their funders do require much more rigorous reporting. so oftentimes will those rewards they already have, you know, metrics ⁓ on all their KPIs up for another funder and they will give that to us ⁓ I think so much of what we do is making sure we do homework upfront so that we're not nitpicking along the way. So making sure we know what their success metrics are. And the very beginning, when we start the relationship and saying like, yes, those work for us too. ⁓ know and with our research backed, kind of like the tenants that we follow, we ⁓ you Trust-based philanthropy is one part, but we also, we only fund things that have been proven to actually lift full communities out of poverty. Thus those, you know, education, livelihoods and healthcare pillars, getting those from the UN Foundation, also MIT's Poverty Action Lab, tons of research over decades. So know the types of interventions that we're gonna fund beforehand. We know they're gonna work if they're executed properly. ⁓ And organizations that we work with, This year based on in 2025, our partners reported, over 200,000 people were reached through the programming. But really that number through our grant making system all of the people they actually reported, was probably north of 300,000, based on what I felt was reasonable for what we actually fund. we cut it down to more specific numbers so that we are under actually probably reporting the total people who are being reached and focusing in more on like who actually was receiving an intervention directly or indirectly, but really receiving a benefit. yeah, leaning on those partners for a lot of things. That's another part of that two-way street.
Neil Callanan: So I'm curious for you guys, you've of been at Cotopaxi in an interesting five years or so, right? Like I think it's politically, COVID of it all, post-changes, elections. ⁓
Charlie Clark: Yeah.
Neil Callanan: What has changed about how you or you and Angie or you and the Cotopaxi team think about having an impact in 2026 versus like, I don't know, maybe 2023? Like what's different and how have you guys sort of adapted?
Charlie Clark: Yeah, totally. That's a great question. And I think that the, there's a couple of things. One, think is collective I think that is a big piece. a few years ago, we were focused on what we wanted to do. There's that big. pandemic boom ⁓ lot of industries, but the outdoor industry in particular, everyone was going outside because they couldn't go inside. So people were buying bikes and tents and gear and all that ⁓ we, yeah, ⁓ my gosh. Yeah. Exactly. So, you know, we, you know, hired a ton of people. were, we were so like, like, this is it. This is the moment. This is our, our time to kind of grow this movement
Neil Callanan: that free government money, man, I gotta spend it on something and I can't do it ⁓ being around people.
Charlie Clark: And I think now, you know, that we've had a bit of an industry downturn. lot of companies are, you know, laying people off after that COVID boom. I mean, people continue to do that. They especially look at the tech industry and that of thing. But ⁓ now we are shifting our mindset. ⁓ to say like, okay, maybe advocacy with this larger group of companies is the way to go. and that's on the, maybe the company side, public lands is an issue that we're getting with people with we, you know, maybe post about it. We all as a group cared about it, but now like maybe let's join the swell at this point or supply chain human rights, that type of thing. ⁓ know, it's tough a lot of companies now with extra logistics pressure of and that of thing. So working, working with other, you know, industry partners on like, how we work through this navigate this kind of tough time for lots of brands and lots of manufacturers. And then for myself too, on the foundation side, same I mean, it's different issues and different areas, but I'm kind of opening up a little and saying like, okay, great, fund this one organization and watch their progress and that's really exciting. And if we actually zoomed out a little bit and looked around and we're like, okay, wait, who else is funding really cool projects, programs, coalitions, ⁓ collectives in this ⁓ geographical area, issue whatever. And like, let's dial back if our goal is to really have an actual you know, the biggest, longest lasting impact. How do we partner with these people who either are, been doing it longer, have been doing it better, or just doing something slightly different that we could layer on top and then it would be a stronger outcome in the end. So I think those two pieces, both in the philanthropy side and the business and advocacy side, we're like, hey, pull our heads up, let's around and let's partner.
Neil Callanan: Yeah, seems like there's a I wouldn't even say it's just you guys, even with some of the companies that we talked to recently or that we work with a lot like this, there's an ego to, well, of course we do it the best. Right. And I think as soon as you take that assumption out and you say, ⁓ who's going to have this ⁓ impact, who's already had any impact and do we accelerate theirs rather try to build it from scratch? There's probably a way to.
Charlie Clark: Yeah. Yeah.
Neil Callanan: see a more efficient investment of your energy and your efforts and your dollars when you're willing to sort of say, yeah, maybe we're not going to be the best people to actually do the thing, but we can still expand the thing, support the thing, all this stuff.
Charlie Clark: Totally. Yeah. And like you said, it doesn't mean you can't be a leader in the space. You can be a leader in saying, hey, we realized we're probably not the best or we realized ⁓ we do this alone. like, join us let us join you, that kind of thing. ⁓ That's still, think, all senses, that's too, recognizing how you can ⁓ a situation better.
Neil Callanan: Yeah. All right. I'm to hit some quick fire questions for you before we wrap for the day. So what or company do you look up to? the answer can't be Patagonia because that's ⁓ not allowed.
Charlie Clark: Yeah, that's a good question.
Neil Callanan: And that could be at the personal level or at Cotopaxi, know, who do you guys sort of, to have ⁓ similar ⁓ or or growth.
Charlie Clark: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Oh man. I feel like I should have a readier answer to this. ⁓
Neil Callanan: Happens a lot when I take Patagonia off the table, people, you know,
Charlie Clark: Right. I mean, I worked for Patagonia. They're great. But think what I want is like more niche you know, like a surprising one.
Neil Callanan: Yeah.
Charlie Clark: Well, I'll give you two how about that? I'll give a shout out to one of my kind of like industry colleagues. You may or may not be familiar with the company, but I guarantee you, you've used their products. World Centric they make like compostable flatware. So if you've ever been to the grocery store and you know,
Neil Callanan: Yeah, it's the stuff at Whole Foods.
Charlie Clark: grab some plates, yeah, exactly. You look at it and you're like, oh great, compostable stuff, that's really cool. But they also have a super robust grant-making, like international development and grant-making program. they're just creating this impact because that's what want to do. ⁓ I think that's really admirable. There's another company called Saalt, S-A-A-L-T, focuses on, I think they with just women's products. And then they also were funding and providing materials for menstrual education in areas of the world experiencing poverty. just recently actually jumped onto their website and they've expanded their product line a lot. The biggest things you can do to lift a community up is to fund the education of girls, support the livelihoods of women, then they will then pour everything back into the surrounding community, which isn't necessarily the case for men. They tend to use money and resources on themselves if you look at generally what's going on. So if you can start a girl off receiving proper ⁓ hygiene, education... ⁓
Neil Callanan: If only we had an example of this like playing out in the world from the Northwest where like you had one person who was very, very rich and then his wife and they got divorced and then she just gave all her money away very effectively and he became a villain. If only we had that as an example.
Charlie Clark: Yeah, yeah, hey. Yeah, some example. Yeah, Exactly. So they are just doing some stuff. the reason bring them up is because I was whoa, I haven't checked in in a while and they're growing. And I don't think that's a coincidence. I think that they had ⁓ figured something out that's pretty special.
Neil Callanan: Next one is, what do you wish you could measure?
Charlie Clark: I mean, keep it simple. I think one of the toughest things for us to measure is over long periods of time. So if you fund someone's education when they're, I don't know, middle school, elementary school, and you get them into a school and then they're able to lock in that spot and go through, what does that mean for them? Do they graduate? post-graduation, are they going to a post-secondary, then does that translate into a better career? I mean, there are, there is data out there that says that, but us personally, I'm looking for the way to do that. And really, I mean, time is probably the only thing, but it's also hard. I mean, tracking one kid in a specific area of world all the way through until they get a career and have a family, that's... merely impossible, not impossible, but I think if I could figure out a way to do that on a large scale, that would be fantastic. Because that's the whole point. I mean, that is the whole point.
Neil Callanan: Yeah, the longevity of the impact is still a bit ⁓ nebulous, think, in a lot of cases. So what do you do to refill your tank?
Charlie Clark: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's see. I mean, I feel like quick, easy answer is kids, but that's like a both, you know, get a little up a little down, but most of the time you fill in your tank with fun stuff with kids. I mean, I think I, like I said, the reason I got into this career in this line of work is just being in the outdoors. You know, my outdoor stuff is a little calmer now probably, but I like a good long, you know, back country backpacking trip solo just.
Neil Callanan: You
Charlie Clark: you stop thinking about any day-to-day stuff and you're just like, I need water. I need to find a safe tent site. I need to climb up there and then get back safely. and all that away, I feel like everything, you know, fills back up.
Neil Callanan: What book or podcast do you find yourself recommending most to others?
Charlie Clark: ⁓ That's a good one. I mean, I will say I'm a little embarrassed I'm not a huge podcast person and I feel like, you know, there's probably a couple of us out there, but yeah.
Neil Callanan: Give it a day or two, man. You might be soon. Who knows?
Charlie Clark: I mean, I'm a big fantasy sci-fi book reader, I'll pitch a trilogy that I read last. It's called The Broken Earth Trilogy by N.K. Jemisin. Just really, super, super interesting take on kind of that fantasy sci-fi genre. it's like a departure from your very classic stuff, but there's still some really, really cool elements. But if there's any fantasy sci-fi readers out there, check that trilogy out.
Neil Callanan: Alright, last one. If I was coming to Portland, where would you send me to get the best sandwich?
Charlie Clark: Oh, man. That's — you'd have to spend weeks in Portland for me to even start, but I can. Yeah, you only get one then I'm OK if you if you get I mean, I grew up here and if you only get one, I'm going to send you to like the like place I grew up going to. It's called Taste Tickler. And it is like you get their steak Philly which is like it's like a teriyaki almost kind of like.
Neil Callanan: I only get one man, I only have time for my one sandwich so where it doesn't...
Charlie Clark: teriyaki steak Philly on that like French ⁓ baguette It's been a while since I've been there. I need to go back. But that's that's where I'd send you just because you see everywhere like the kind of like popular Portland sandwich spots, but this is like true hole in the wall. They've been there since I was born kind of thing. So that's where I'd take you.
Neil Callanan: That's a heck of a too. ⁓ That's one that really stands time. Well, Charlie, give me a feel for where people can find out more about you or about what you guys have going on at Cotopaxi.
Charlie Clark: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. We've got some, some cool new stuff. I mean, we entered a whole new kind of product category. We've got an awesome, new hard case roller. I cannot claim that is the most sustainable hard case, roller out there, but it is. I mean, it's designed with repairability in mind, all recycled materials that, that case, super durable. ⁓ And you can find that kind of stuff on You can find.
Neil Callanan: Will I be seeing the bright Cotopaxi in the airport? is this what I'm going to be seeing the roller bags that are clearly
Charlie Clark: So you know what you can do? got a couple of nice colors, a couple of them are in a black. We went pretty simple with the actual case, but really, really awesome action wheels, you can swap them out. We've got tons of colors, so you can personally buy as many colors of the wheels as you want, mix and match them. So do have signature color there. You can also find out too, just released in the last few weeks, our corporate impact report. if you're interested in actually getting some of the numbers and interesting stuff behind any of the things I was saying, ⁓ out our website. And then in mid-June, our foundation will be releasing annual report. So definitely more of that focus on the partners ⁓ philanthropy that we do.
Neil Callanan: Charlie is the director of philanthropy at Cotopaxi where he helps lead the foundation's grant making strategy and operations. ⁓ Charlie's multiple related roles at Cotopaxi since 2021, including the director of giving and cause marketing. Before Cotopaxi, Charlie across philanthropy and nonprofit partnerships ⁓ and has a of working with brands in the outdoors. Charlie is located in Portland, Oregon and we'll be seeing wheeling around a very pretty new bag next you see him out in the airport. Charlie, thanks for being here man.
Charlie Clark: Yeah, right. The Coraza. Yep. Thanks so much, Neil. Super fun.
Charlie Clark: Awesome. Thank you so much, Neil. Super excited to be here. Thank you for having me.
Neil Callanan: So I like to start with an easy Tell us who you are, what your job title is, and where you live.
Charlie Clark: I do know that. So, yep, my name is Charlie. I'm the director of philanthropy at Cotopaxi. that essentially means that I am running the Cotopaxi Foundation. So we do a lot of stuff that we would put under the umbrella of impact. One of them is philanthropy and poverty alleviation. And so that is my purview. I live in Portland, Oregon. Lived here for now I guess yeah six years 2020 uh and I grew up here so it's been fun coming back and getting back into the food scene and everything and I started working for Cotopaxi in 2021 as a contractor and now here we are.
Neil Callanan: So for who are less familiar, what would we know Cotopaxi as? ⁓
Charlie Clark: Yeah, I mean, you probably I would say the number one thing is you probably know them as the super colorful color blocked bags that you see at the airport. like the number one thing I get that comments on. But, um if you dig a little bit deeper, you would know us as the "do good brand." a lot of incredible outdoor brands who do ⁓ so much great work. but the "do-good" tagline is slapped across a lot of our stuff. And it covers a lot of things. mean, we focus on our internal folks, kind of that people first mentality. The company itself was started back in 2014 as a vehicle for positive social change. It was our founder, Davis Smith. grew up in Ecuador and saw a lot of need there knew that he wanted to create something that was an engine ⁓ change that would impact folks beyond what he was able to just like give personally over his lifetime. ⁓ I don't think he knew what he wanted to make. He just knew he wanted to start a brand, start a company ⁓ and that could turn into a movement and that could fuel change. So we are the outdoor brand who kind of you where you are. You know, we're not the ones you up Everest you're not gonna grab our stuff and go red point the first, ⁓ you know, amazing you see but ⁓ we want everyone be able to access the outdoors, be able to access adventure, travel, ⁓ get out, see the but then also make it better, right? So you're experiencing new places, new things, challenging yourself, but challenging yourself by meeting someone new, something new, ⁓ eating something that you've never eaten before. And then also when you're in that place, whether it's your neighborhood park or somewhere across the globe, ⁓ are also giving back ⁓ some way, giving energy, your time, that kind of thing, and then sharing your experiences.
Neil Callanan: So give me a feel for you personally. how did you get into sort of the philanthropy side of stuff or the impact side? ⁓ what ⁓ of brought you ⁓ that, that space.
Charlie Clark: Yeah, totally. So, you know, a little bit of a winding path as I'm sure a lot of us have after college. I kind of, I've just bummed around a little bit in the outdoor industry, working at gear shops and guiding and that kind of thing. It had a pretty obviously strong connection to the places that I was recreating in and that I loved for the beauty, for the, you know, ecological importance, for how connected they were to the communities that I was in. then after a while, kind of realized like maybe a little bit more serious about and realized that think where I wanted to be was ⁓ in a where I could ⁓ help these places and kind bring to the forefront the connection that they between health of communities, ⁓ but then also just general societal health. and fun. So I was just kicking around trying to figure out what to do. Like, what does that mean? Do I, you know, I love nature documentaries. Does that mean I have to go back and become a biologist? I'm terrible at math. I was kind of felt stuck. ⁓ I was looking around at the time I was working for Patagonia, a great, you know, great competitor of ours, but also a great partner in, you know, industry coalitions and that kind of thing. ⁓ I think everyone's very familiar with their very robust and funding efforts. Their conservation efforts are legendary, very well known, but I feel like less people know that they do the same thing at a local level. So I was working at the local Seattle store and they have a grant making ⁓ program, local grant making they give each store. some money and then local organizations can apply and ⁓ being a part of that process was incredible and I think that was when it kicked off and I was like, ⁓ working these people are ⁓ passionate, they're so brilliant, ⁓ they have the drive that I feel like that I ⁓ really see myself getting into ⁓ line of work. And looked around, turned out right in my own backyard, Seattle University offered a master's in nonprofit leadership. So long story short, ⁓ went At the time, I was just kind of white guy doing white guy conservation stuff. being in that program was huge wake up call and an incredible time for me. They had zero, zero ⁓ focus on environmental sustainability, conservation, anything. It was almost exclusively social justice and equity focused coursework along with the of standard, almost MBA like how to run an organization, etc. and met some incredible people in that program. And I think I learned a lot as well about the between oppressed communities, underserved communities, ⁓ the ⁓ through that I wanted to take through, and just the links ⁓ So then kind of became. ⁓ I was like, okay, I've been thinking about this as just like, let's conserve empty land so we can go play on it. But then I my world expanded a little bit. I got to work with some really incredible nonprofits that point too on different projects. And at the time I was working for a now partner of Cotopaxi's called MiIR, another great brand, doing really cool impact work. And kind of soon as I graduated from that program got to work on that company's grant making program and build that out a little bit ⁓ and Annie Eagle who's the VP of sustainability and impact here at Cotopaxi met her through a MiiR Cotopaxi partnership when I left MiiR sent out the email saying, hey, you know, I'm off on my own. She immediately emailed me back and was like, At Cotopaxi we've got so much going on, so much impact work that I could really use a second pair of hands. And that's sort of, that's a medium length version of it. I could go shorter, I could probably go longer, but you don't want me to.
Neil Callanan: Yeah. Well, let me hear ⁓ kind your thoughts on, you know, personal journey was clearly you were motivated to decide to do some good at some point, right? Like whenever that switch was made for ⁓ I'm curious was it chance or intention or, you know, circumstance that sort of led you to thinking about having your own personal impact via a brand and a business rather than ⁓ working directly with a nonprofit or, ⁓ how you, ⁓ how did get to where ⁓ you are And how did you start thinking about that? ⁓
Charlie Clark: Yeah, that's a really great question. Growing up, my mom worked for a nonprofit, ⁓ like a family mediation nonprofit. So I think she was in some pretty tough situations in terms of looking at families, having a go of it. so I kind of saw, in addition to that, watching her work through these like really, really challenging moments, things at work. And then also her her organization, having to also fundraise for their jobs while they're dealing with this really, really intense work. And then on the backside of that, not getting paid all that much for all of their incredible work, the brilliant stuff that they were doing. I think that That was maybe like the first seed of just being like, wow, I feel like there could be a better way to do things, when ⁓ people are kind giving so much of themselves. And then the opportunity to through that learn kind of the ins and outs of fundraising. the program, but then also the just like connecting with the people who are doing all of this stuff. ⁓ was just like, there is, it like ⁓ the nonprofit relationship so ⁓ always, not, is a generalization, but ⁓ it's broken in a of ways. And at the time I working for this brand, MiiR that their thing was very, very similar to Cotopaxi's. It's of revenue going social impact and environmental impact And I saw if I'm lucky enough to be in this funder seat, then I can take everything that I have learned working for nonprofits, you know, worked for one just out of school. And everything I learned from, you know, growing up watching my mom, plus everything that I've learned from these incredible professors that were active, in the industry brought in to teach us, as well as my cohort of students. I can be a better funder. I can try and set an example for how corporate giving can be better than a greenwashing marketing pitch. It can be better than even the best intentioned ones. And I wanted to take all the learnings and then parlay them into better relationships with nonprofits, trying to sure that it is beyond like best practices for funding, but best practices for receiving the funds and making that ⁓ loop a true partnership and not just a transactional I think.
Neil Callanan: Yeah, it sounds like your lived experience sort of aligned a little bit with sort what you were seeing in the space.
Charlie Clark: Yeah, that and the lived experiences of others that I was learning from, I think is a big part of it too, yeah.
Neil Callanan: Yeah. Well, I'm curious as know, talk about Cotopaxi. From my understanding, your philanthropic efforts and a of your impact work is through Cotopaxi Foundation. Give us a feel for just like the setup. what does your team look like? You mentioned Angie. ⁓ How you guys sort of ⁓ interact with the brand? I think, One of the reasons we talk about this is a lot of the ⁓ folks that we are talking to on this podcast and conversations we're having, ⁓ the setups are kind of different at brand, right? Like how, how close together the ⁓ brand marketers are the ⁓ philanthropic folks, the impact people, to the doing the work. So give us a feel on ⁓ what that looks like at Cotopaxi.
Charlie Clark: Yeah. Yeah, great question. mean, it is and In talking to industry colleagues and stuff and things look so different, even though we're doing very similar work sometimes, sometimes not, but it is, it's fascinating to look across different brands and see how things are set up. So the way that we, at impact in the broadest sense is we've got kind of "Do Good" slash whatever impact at the very top. Then and I kind of bifurcate it, she's in charge of our impact generally, but what she focuses on is sustainability, decarbonization and climate. So looking at like materials, sustainability, and then also supply chain sustainability, supply chain human rights, and just kind like our level governance as well. And then I am focused % on the nonprofit relationships, the philanthropy and the poverty alleviation work. Those are our two biggest buckets of impact. I think we also would say that the work with our employees, our people is one of that as well. And then we are the only two, technically the only two people who actually work on the impact team. Annie works obviously closely with our product development team, our product teams, our people team. I mean, when you're talking about material sourcing and sustainability, they are incredible partners for her. And then I work very, very closely with our brand team because... ⁓ One of the things I think, you probably, I mean, you're a storyteller, we're on this podcast right now. One of the most important things about impact in general is actually being able to then share the story of what's actually happening. I mean, you can look at it in a lot of different ways. Numbers can tell a story for sure. You can also go more of a qualitative route and focus on an individual who has been changed by a certain program or an intervention. But I work very closely with those folks to bring what we're doing to life. And it's a, you know, I think, especially in this industry, it's a tricky line to walk. You know, we're selling products, right, that are, they are expensive because they are really well made, really thoughtfully designed. And, you know, they're for a purpose. I people love them. People use them all the time. We can repair them. They're, they're fantastic. And, know, do you juxtapose that with the work that the foundation is doing, working with our partners who are working with communities experiencing extreme poverty, you know, that, that often can be ⁓ a hard to look at in a marketing email or something like that. ⁓ So, really, grateful for my partnership with our brand team who is So understanding, you know, in terms of what is best practices, how to talk about vulnerable populations, how to talk about the work spotlight, really spotlight our partners, not just like, oh, Cotopaxi does this, Cotopaxi does that, we're so great, but really, truly focusing on the people who are doing the work. So I would say that's sort of. There's only two of us on the team specifically, but we each have really, really important partners within the brand who are helping our initiatives come to life, both internally and externally.
Neil Callanan: So in that sense, sounds like for you like most ⁓ sort of mission-driven brands, the storytelling element of it a core function of being able get the out. So I'm curious as you guys are about developing those stories, whether they're qualitative or it's quantitative and you're making infographics talking about change or whatever it is, right? Like, How do you look at measuring amount of folks who are impacted in some way by that story or exposed that story? ⁓ how do you measure the response to sort of say, hey, this seemed to ⁓ really connect with audience, maybe a little bit better than this other story, right? Like just from a more traditional storytelling element, how do you guys think gauging whether or not something really resonated with your audience?
Charlie Clark: Mmm, I see. Yeah. That's a great question. And if you have someone who has the perfect answer, please let me know. No, mean, I think mainly I'd say that just because we are always having this conversation I don't think there is an end. You it's just like, how can we improve on capturing whether consumer or insights on what, you know, did or didn't hit with audiences. I mean, I think ⁓ basic level just who how many people are engaging with this story versus that story. we have series. called Mission Monday. So every Monday we will go out with some story on an impact story. So whether that is ⁓ on a partner's ⁓ ⁓ project that has completed and it's a celebration of that completion a new initiative that we're focusing on with cleaner chemicals, something like that. some sort of story lives in our impact ⁓ kind of wheelhouse. And we will monitor the response and engagement to those posts. ⁓ And so we do a sense of what our audience is engaging the most with. And I think we over the years have done more ⁓ pointed sort of like insight and stakeholder insight surveys and assessments, that kind of thing. it is interesting. It's not always what you might think is resonating is the actual thing that people are really, into. I think it's interesting to us, the whole philanthropy and poverty alleviation, that's ⁓ reason that the company was started. ⁓ is one the core kind of hallmarks of impact program, but the average ⁓ does not know for that. ⁓ And it's like the fourth thing they think of when you mention Cotopaxi. it's, I mean, the bright color is the number one, then it might be sustainable fabric or something, or maybe bright color, then it's just "do good" You know, they know that message. Then the sustainability of like our deadstock. Fabric Program, our Del Dia line, is, ⁓ it's We've got things coming every day from that line. And that was kind of the line that really gained us some notoriety and people saw it. It's hard to miss actually. But then that poverty alleviation piece, you dig down a little bit deeper follow us very closely, I think the average consumer isn't. engaging with those stories quite as much for some reason. So that is something like got some kind of fresh ⁓ brand and marketing energy in the last six months, new leadership and some teams are being out in a way that's pretty exciting. I think some new structures that we've had. So we are actually now in a position to start measuring a little bit of this ⁓ even more than we have in the past. So maybe we'll follow up in a year, six months or something, and I'll let you know what we've learned since then. But ⁓ it a slow, I mean, it's a slow process. We, a lot of time and energy we want to spend on how do we grow the business. And so we're doing insights on that, product specific insights. But then we also know that we've got to bring this side along with it.
Neil Callanan: you'll have it all solved. So I guess my question that you sort of teed up for me is if say % of your customer base ⁓ is unaware your core mission, is that a
Charlie Clark: I would say yes and no. I think, again, a couple ways you can look at it, suppose. I think the core of the company, the only thing anyone knew about the company is that we were mission-driven, we have values that people align with, and that they could feel really good and very comfortable. And like they were even maybe making a difference by purchasing something that we make. I think at the end of the day, that would be a win. You know, like if ⁓ many companies kind of, have their core brand and then they tack on an impact thing on the side and you might see that campaign or something like But then that's not what you're thinking about when you look at that brand. But if when people see our brand, if they think about vibrancy and ⁓ positive impact, like that's good with me. My job, I'm the nerd, Annie and I like to joke that we're the subject matter nerds. If I know in my heart that what we're doing is creating real measurable metrics-backed impact somewhere in the world and real communities are being lifted out of poverty, take that all day if our company is also growing. Our next frontier ⁓ where is the breakdown? Where is that disconnect? And then how do we bridge it? And I think I mentioned, you know, maybe this is just like a cop out of an answer, but this new structure we're building on our brand team, the focus for the next, I mean, just ongoing into the future, but really for this next six months is how do we better integrate that story in a way that there's really some, an entry point for every type of customer. Are you the person who just saw us? because we launched new ads on Instagram TikTok ⁓ and you are like, whoa, they "do good." Are you the person who wants to dig down a little bit deeper? Do you want to look at individual human stories that we're pulling from Latin America or one of the groups who work here in the US? Or do you want to see ⁓ exactly what chemicals using because we got rid of the PFAS stuff and you want like all of that information should be available to whoever wants to go. as deep as they want to go. But how do you make so all of that stuff is ⁓ digestible, sort of fun? you know, you're looking at a tax document and you're trying to find the small print. Like we want to make it available. ⁓ We want to make it digestible. And so sort of our, that's going to the challenge of the next little bit here is integrating everything in a way. ⁓ Because there's so much. think that's one of our problems too. It's like there is so much ⁓ how do we bring it out to the right audience at the right time.
Neil Callanan: Yeah. Do you have a sense that on your team, maybe it's on the brand team, it's on leadership team, is the commitment to doing good, right? It's, it's core core of who you guys are. But I also sense just in the way you describe all that, there's like a, true sense that also by doing good, we'll probably actually sell some more stuff and people will like our products more and people will be more committed to our brand. Do have any way to know if that's ⁓ actually or it's happening or less, or ⁓ is your ⁓ whatever brand brand affinity brand ⁓ loyalty? Like, do you guys have. ⁓
Charlie Clark: Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah.
Neil Callanan: any tangible numbers or metrics that allow you to look at like, hey, yeah, like we told these stories and we create this good product and those combinations together mean this, here's what we're seeing the growth is up or this is how this or this impact work is impacting people's relationship with our brand. Is there a numeric measurable way that you guys can digest that impact at all?
Charlie Clark: Yeah, great question. I'm not the best person to answer that for you just because that would be some of our the folks who are more focused on kind of like brand promotion and that kind of thing. However, I do know there's a couple of things that we do look at for sure. And there's also like there are other, you know, there are bigger companies that have studies that definitely show and I'm not talking about like brands, but you know, research. research groups, think tanks and that kind of thing, do show that especially people of certain age group if there are two products, they're more likely to buy one that aligns with their values, ⁓ whether that is conservation minded, mean, you can look Patagonia's entire arc see some of that.
Neil Callanan: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie Clark: One thing that we do know is as we grow as a company, we have an extremely high net promoter score of So once a consumer comes in and buys something of ours, they will not just maybe purchase again, ⁓ which great, we'll take it, ⁓ but are actually actively broadening the Cotopaxi community through their own social posts. We get much re-engagement with like a product comes out and kind of like my God, I've had for so long. This is incredible. And then people, you can see that through So the net promoter score and those types of things like the loyalty scores are very high. ⁓ And then our unaided awareness. That's the number where we're like, gosh, there's so much growth here. Like we are, we are barely scratching the surface. You know, we're big in certain States. We've got a lot of the West coasts, you know, we're, we're pretty well known there. But there's so many conversations I have that I, I never go in assuming people know who we are just because I've had both sides where I'll, I'll say, have actually it's a, and everyone's like, oh yeah, are you kidding me? I love it. I have so many pieces. And then other people, you know, if, if I'm talking to a lot of people from Southeast or the Midwest where we don't have a lot of retail locations and we're newer, then it's more of a conversation. yes, we do have different metrics that tell us that once people know brand, know the mission, they tend to stick with us for the remainder of their outdoor gear buying lives. And then we go with that. Also those broader industry looks at mission-driven companies and the and that choice factor.
Neil Callanan: Yeah, a really neat way to think about, you know, how you guys are balancing that you're doing a lot of things, it seems like, across the activism and the side. So I guess ⁓ one of the I have, you guys reported, you know, that you've reached millions of people through property alleviation work. How do you know that? ⁓ How do you measure that? are you, how is that not a glamour metric that... ⁓
Charlie Clark: Yeah, great question. Great question. Yeah, absolutely. So this is another point. I mentioned a little while back, our grantee partners ⁓ credit, spotlighting them, ⁓ aren't the ones on the ground doing the work with communities. So we want to make sure that the credit goes to partners. also trust our partners a deal. I wouldn't say we ascribed every single tenant of it, but there's a practice called trust-based philanthropy. If you're not familiar with it, head to the Trust-Based Philanthropy Project. it's an incredible group. It's sort of kind of re-thinking the way that funders and grantees work together and putting kind of the onus on funders to lower the barriers to actually creating real impact on the ground. So when you think about it, you know, ⁓ it's the kind of lowering barriers ⁓ like paperwork barriers. ⁓ you, do we have 50 page proposal going to cause a full-time head count to spend three weeks just focusing on that when that full-time count could have actually been doing work? that actually created real impact, that kind of thing, you know, ⁓ making your funding unrestricted, right? So it's like if we just said you can only buy shovels with this $50,000 ⁓ that you can dig the line for new clean water pipeline. And then great, we bought five grand worth of shovels. Now what do we do? we gonna just re buy when they break or are we gonna be able to use that to then pivot ⁓ to ⁓ there's something in the project that we didn't realize was gonna happen. We have to shore up this ⁓ concrete pad because ⁓ you there was a landslide. Well, we can't use that money from Cotopaxi for that. So I guess we're stuck in this project stalled, ⁓ right? like that kind of thing. You would never in I mean you you've founded multiple businesses, right? If a was paying you and they were like here, thank you for this service, here's this money that we owe you and you can only use it for the desks in your office. You'd be like, yeah, you'd be like, that's insane. I don't wanna run a business like that and nonprofits don't wanna run their businesses like that or their organization.
Neil Callanan: You can buy paper with this stuff. Yeah. as someone who's the of a couple of nonprofits in the past, what I would say is that my understanding today ⁓ is if you do that for a while, right? Like you're that space in the nonprofit space for any amount of time, the more likely you are to say like, Hey, you've got to find the groups who are doing good and then them ⁓ what they need and get the hell out of the way. Right. And, ⁓ you our.
Charlie Clark: Yeah, right, yes, right.
Neil Callanan: adage, the most recent one was group called the I IMABLE Foundation. did sort of adaptive equipment grants for athletes had, you know, whether they're cognitive or physical disability. And, you know, we get so many people to support a physical piece of equipment, right? $10,000 hand ⁓ cycle, But what really need people to $10 classes, adaptive fitness classes, and, you know,
Charlie Clark: Yeah.
Neil Callanan: coaches and teachers and all the things, right? one the things we took on was the idea that if we could tell those stories a little bit better, can make people ⁓ have way to connect with it. In some cases, basically just saying like the whole of everybody wants to fund a school, but nobody wants to pay a teacher. I think in this space, both in the nonprofit side and also on that in the activism side,
Charlie Clark: Yeah.
Neil Callanan: If your customers don't understand what and how you're gonna be using this funds in a way that is collaborative and impactful, then I feel like you end up defaulting too. And so we raised money for the United Way and we did this kind of more genericized impact. And I think at some level, there's a creativity that's required to be able to tell stories well that people can get behind ⁓ help them understand that, yes, it's easy to say we need to build.
Charlie Clark: Yeah. Yeah.
Neil Callanan: three miles of new clean water infrastructure. But if you can tell a story about how access to clean water has changed a village or changed a school or changed a thing, then I think people are a little less precious about where their money is going. Right? Like how can we, how can we support? We just want to support the end result. And if you can't tell the end result, if you can't illustrate it, it's really hard for people to get behind it so then they default to, well, you need some shovels, right? Here's 50 shovels.
Charlie Clark: Totally. Yeah, right. Exactly. I mean, it's, it's, I do the through line, so I'll get back to ⁓ where I going with that. But it is, way less sexy say funded training that went over ⁓ three weeks ⁓ and included, you know, paying five trainers visit three communities. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah.
Neil Callanan: There was 24 bagels provided at lunch and you know.
Charlie Clark: Exactly, and it's like all these little things, they matter so much when you could say like, we were the ones ⁓ built that school or something like that. So part of trusting our partners to do the work that they're doing and the shared accountability ⁓ is also trusting them to report what they're doing. Right? And in a pretty, you know, want there to be trust. We want them to have the flexibility to fund what they really need to fund to create the change that they're working on. But we're still asking what's right? And we, you know, we don't always get to visit every site personally, but, we've been to Ecuador looking at the projects that our partners are likely getting ahead to Guatemala where there's another cluster of nonprofits that we're working with. so we are using their very robust ⁓ that's already in place. I mean, we're not the only funders that they have. ⁓ of their funders do require much more rigorous reporting. so oftentimes will those rewards they already have, you know, metrics ⁓ on all their KPIs up for another funder and they will give that to us ⁓ I think so much of what we do is making sure we do homework upfront so that we're not nitpicking along the way. So making sure we know what their success metrics are. And the very beginning, when we start the relationship and saying like, yes, those work for us too. ⁓ know and with our research backed, kind of like the tenants that we follow, we ⁓ you Trust-based philanthropy is one part, but we also, we only fund things that have been proven to actually lift full communities out of poverty. Thus those, you know, education, livelihoods and healthcare pillars, getting those from the UN Foundation, also MIT's Poverty Action Lab, tons of research over decades. So know the types of interventions that we're gonna fund beforehand. We know they're gonna work if they're executed properly. ⁓ And organizations that we work with, This year based on in 2025, our partners reported, over 200,000 people were reached through the programming. But really that number through our grant making system all of the people they actually reported, was probably north of 300,000, based on what I felt was reasonable for what we actually fund. we cut it down to more specific numbers so that we are under actually probably reporting the total people who are being reached and focusing in more on like who actually was receiving an intervention directly or indirectly, but really receiving a benefit. yeah, leaning on those partners for a lot of things. That's another part of that two-way street.
Neil Callanan: So I'm curious for you guys, you've of been at Cotopaxi in an interesting five years or so, right? Like I think it's politically, COVID of it all, post-changes, elections. ⁓
Charlie Clark: Yeah.
Neil Callanan: What has changed about how you or you and Angie or you and the Cotopaxi team think about having an impact in 2026 versus like, I don't know, maybe 2023? Like what's different and how have you guys sort of adapted?
Charlie Clark: Yeah, totally. That's a great question. And I think that the, there's a couple of things. One, think is collective I think that is a big piece. a few years ago, we were focused on what we wanted to do. There's that big. pandemic boom ⁓ lot of industries, but the outdoor industry in particular, everyone was going outside because they couldn't go inside. So people were buying bikes and tents and gear and all that ⁓ we, yeah, ⁓ my gosh. Yeah. Exactly. So, you know, we, you know, hired a ton of people. were, we were so like, like, this is it. This is the moment. This is our, our time to kind of grow this movement
Neil Callanan: that free government money, man, I gotta spend it on something and I can't do it ⁓ being around people.
Charlie Clark: And I think now, you know, that we've had a bit of an industry downturn. lot of companies are, you know, laying people off after that COVID boom. I mean, people continue to do that. They especially look at the tech industry and that of thing. But ⁓ now we are shifting our mindset. ⁓ to say like, okay, maybe advocacy with this larger group of companies is the way to go. and that's on the, maybe the company side, public lands is an issue that we're getting with people with we, you know, maybe post about it. We all as a group cared about it, but now like maybe let's join the swell at this point or supply chain human rights, that type of thing. ⁓ know, it's tough a lot of companies now with extra logistics pressure of and that of thing. So working, working with other, you know, industry partners on like, how we work through this navigate this kind of tough time for lots of brands and lots of manufacturers. And then for myself too, on the foundation side, same I mean, it's different issues and different areas, but I'm kind of opening up a little and saying like, okay, great, fund this one organization and watch their progress and that's really exciting. And if we actually zoomed out a little bit and looked around and we're like, okay, wait, who else is funding really cool projects, programs, coalitions, ⁓ collectives in this ⁓ geographical area, issue whatever. And like, let's dial back if our goal is to really have an actual you know, the biggest, longest lasting impact. How do we partner with these people who either are, been doing it longer, have been doing it better, or just doing something slightly different that we could layer on top and then it would be a stronger outcome in the end. So I think those two pieces, both in the philanthropy side and the business and advocacy side, we're like, hey, pull our heads up, let's around and let's partner.
Neil Callanan: Yeah, seems like there's a I wouldn't even say it's just you guys, even with some of the companies that we talked to recently or that we work with a lot like this, there's an ego to, well, of course we do it the best. Right. And I think as soon as you take that assumption out and you say, ⁓ who's going to have this ⁓ impact, who's already had any impact and do we accelerate theirs rather try to build it from scratch? There's probably a way to.
Charlie Clark: Yeah. Yeah.
Neil Callanan: see a more efficient investment of your energy and your efforts and your dollars when you're willing to sort of say, yeah, maybe we're not going to be the best people to actually do the thing, but we can still expand the thing, support the thing, all this stuff.
Charlie Clark: Totally. Yeah. And like you said, it doesn't mean you can't be a leader in the space. You can be a leader in saying, hey, we realized we're probably not the best or we realized ⁓ we do this alone. like, join us let us join you, that kind of thing. ⁓ That's still, think, all senses, that's too, recognizing how you can ⁓ a situation better.
Neil Callanan: Yeah. All right. I'm to hit some quick fire questions for you before we wrap for the day. So what or company do you look up to? the answer can't be Patagonia because that's ⁓ not allowed.
Charlie Clark: Yeah, that's a good question.
Neil Callanan: And that could be at the personal level or at Cotopaxi, know, who do you guys sort of, to have ⁓ similar ⁓ or or growth.
Charlie Clark: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Oh man. I feel like I should have a readier answer to this. ⁓
Neil Callanan: Happens a lot when I take Patagonia off the table, people, you know,
Charlie Clark: Right. I mean, I worked for Patagonia. They're great. But think what I want is like more niche you know, like a surprising one.
Neil Callanan: Yeah.
Charlie Clark: Well, I'll give you two how about that? I'll give a shout out to one of my kind of like industry colleagues. You may or may not be familiar with the company, but I guarantee you, you've used their products. World Centric they make like compostable flatware. So if you've ever been to the grocery store and you know,
Neil Callanan: Yeah, it's the stuff at Whole Foods.
Charlie Clark: grab some plates, yeah, exactly. You look at it and you're like, oh great, compostable stuff, that's really cool. But they also have a super robust grant-making, like international development and grant-making program. they're just creating this impact because that's what want to do. ⁓ I think that's really admirable. There's another company called Saalt, S-A-A-L-T, focuses on, I think they with just women's products. And then they also were funding and providing materials for menstrual education in areas of the world experiencing poverty. just recently actually jumped onto their website and they've expanded their product line a lot. The biggest things you can do to lift a community up is to fund the education of girls, support the livelihoods of women, then they will then pour everything back into the surrounding community, which isn't necessarily the case for men. They tend to use money and resources on themselves if you look at generally what's going on. So if you can start a girl off receiving proper ⁓ hygiene, education... ⁓
Neil Callanan: If only we had an example of this like playing out in the world from the Northwest where like you had one person who was very, very rich and then his wife and they got divorced and then she just gave all her money away very effectively and he became a villain. If only we had that as an example.
Charlie Clark: Yeah, yeah, hey. Yeah, some example. Yeah, Exactly. So they are just doing some stuff. the reason bring them up is because I was whoa, I haven't checked in in a while and they're growing. And I don't think that's a coincidence. I think that they had ⁓ figured something out that's pretty special.
Neil Callanan: Next one is, what do you wish you could measure?
Charlie Clark: I mean, keep it simple. I think one of the toughest things for us to measure is over long periods of time. So if you fund someone's education when they're, I don't know, middle school, elementary school, and you get them into a school and then they're able to lock in that spot and go through, what does that mean for them? Do they graduate? post-graduation, are they going to a post-secondary, then does that translate into a better career? I mean, there are, there is data out there that says that, but us personally, I'm looking for the way to do that. And really, I mean, time is probably the only thing, but it's also hard. I mean, tracking one kid in a specific area of world all the way through until they get a career and have a family, that's... merely impossible, not impossible, but I think if I could figure out a way to do that on a large scale, that would be fantastic. Because that's the whole point. I mean, that is the whole point.
Neil Callanan: Yeah, the longevity of the impact is still a bit ⁓ nebulous, think, in a lot of cases. So what do you do to refill your tank?
Charlie Clark: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's see. I mean, I feel like quick, easy answer is kids, but that's like a both, you know, get a little up a little down, but most of the time you fill in your tank with fun stuff with kids. I mean, I think I, like I said, the reason I got into this career in this line of work is just being in the outdoors. You know, my outdoor stuff is a little calmer now probably, but I like a good long, you know, back country backpacking trip solo just.
Neil Callanan: You
Charlie Clark: you stop thinking about any day-to-day stuff and you're just like, I need water. I need to find a safe tent site. I need to climb up there and then get back safely. and all that away, I feel like everything, you know, fills back up.
Neil Callanan: What book or podcast do you find yourself recommending most to others?
Charlie Clark: ⁓ That's a good one. I mean, I will say I'm a little embarrassed I'm not a huge podcast person and I feel like, you know, there's probably a couple of us out there, but yeah.
Neil Callanan: Give it a day or two, man. You might be soon. Who knows?
Charlie Clark: I mean, I'm a big fantasy sci-fi book reader, I'll pitch a trilogy that I read last. It's called The Broken Earth Trilogy by N.K. Jemisin. Just really, super, super interesting take on kind of that fantasy sci-fi genre. it's like a departure from your very classic stuff, but there's still some really, really cool elements. But if there's any fantasy sci-fi readers out there, check that trilogy out.
Neil Callanan: Alright, last one. If I was coming to Portland, where would you send me to get the best sandwich?
Charlie Clark: Oh, man. That's — you'd have to spend weeks in Portland for me to even start, but I can. Yeah, you only get one then I'm OK if you if you get I mean, I grew up here and if you only get one, I'm going to send you to like the like place I grew up going to. It's called Taste Tickler. And it is like you get their steak Philly which is like it's like a teriyaki almost kind of like.
Neil Callanan: I only get one man, I only have time for my one sandwich so where it doesn't...
Charlie Clark: teriyaki steak Philly on that like French ⁓ baguette It's been a while since I've been there. I need to go back. But that's that's where I'd send you just because you see everywhere like the kind of like popular Portland sandwich spots, but this is like true hole in the wall. They've been there since I was born kind of thing. So that's where I'd take you.
Neil Callanan: That's a heck of a too. ⁓ That's one that really stands time. Well, Charlie, give me a feel for where people can find out more about you or about what you guys have going on at Cotopaxi.
Charlie Clark: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. We've got some, some cool new stuff. I mean, we entered a whole new kind of product category. We've got an awesome, new hard case roller. I cannot claim that is the most sustainable hard case, roller out there, but it is. I mean, it's designed with repairability in mind, all recycled materials that, that case, super durable. ⁓ And you can find that kind of stuff on You can find.
Neil Callanan: Will I be seeing the bright Cotopaxi in the airport? is this what I'm going to be seeing the roller bags that are clearly
Charlie Clark: So you know what you can do? got a couple of nice colors, a couple of them are in a black. We went pretty simple with the actual case, but really, really awesome action wheels, you can swap them out. We've got tons of colors, so you can personally buy as many colors of the wheels as you want, mix and match them. So do have signature color there. You can also find out too, just released in the last few weeks, our corporate impact report. if you're interested in actually getting some of the numbers and interesting stuff behind any of the things I was saying, ⁓ out our website. And then in mid-June, our foundation will be releasing annual report. So definitely more of that focus on the partners ⁓ philanthropy that we do.
Neil Callanan: Charlie is the director of philanthropy at Cotopaxi where he helps lead the foundation's grant making strategy and operations. ⁓ Charlie's multiple related roles at Cotopaxi since 2021, including the director of giving and cause marketing. Before Cotopaxi, Charlie across philanthropy and nonprofit partnerships ⁓ and has a of working with brands in the outdoors. Charlie is located in Portland, Oregon and we'll be seeing wheeling around a very pretty new bag next you see him out in the airport. Charlie, thanks for being here man.
Charlie Clark: Yeah, right. The Coraza. Yep. Thanks so much, Neil. Super fun.
