Math anxiety, vulnerability, and the secrets to building student confidence w/ Amy Johnston

WEBVTT
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vulnerability is a superpower.
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when you weave in your own personal experience to a teaching moment, it can connect and it can deepen.
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to be able to soften people's bodies, have a laugh, bring some levity to the moment, actually allows them to learn better.
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Math is fundamental to the universe, so everyone has it in you.
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use it as an entry point to understand yourself more.
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Guys, oh my God, hello, and welcome to Math Therapy.
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Welcome to all of our new listeners.
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I'm so glad you found this podcast, and so glad you're here.
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And that's why this week I'm doing two things.
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First, I'm beyond excited for you to hear this week's interview, which was very, very special for me.
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Second, I'm doing another giveaway for the new TI Evo during this episode.
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But this time there's a fun little twist.
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Now, before I tell you about it, I've got to explain why this episode is so special.
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You're going to hear from one of my best friends, and one of the most incredible therapists I know, Amy Johnston.
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As you guys know, I have long been a believer that as educators, we are healers.
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And in order to heal to the best of our abilities, it helps to learn from other healers in their own trade.
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I mean, my book and this podcast are called Math Therapy, like therapy.
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And as we learn, we only grow stronger in being able to heal math trauma and help all students build healthier relationships with math.
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Amy and I explore how negative early math experiences shape identity and persist into adulthood, and we get into the nuts and bolts of exactly how it happens, and more importantly, what to do about it.
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Amy is insightful, genuine, and pragmatic, and drops practical strategies for both students and teachers struggling with their own math anxiety inside and outside of the classroom.
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Like, you're gonna be able to use these strategies right now, even though it's summer, to become a stronger teacher in the fall.
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You're gonna walk away from this episode with a perspective shift and at least one thing that changes the way you see yourself or your students.
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And most of all, guys, you're going to walk away feeling more hopeful, I promise.
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And now, for the reason I know at least a few of you are here, don't lie, it's totally fine, I see you, this episode is sponsored by Texas Instruments, which means we are doing another giveaway.
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Okay, so in case you missed it, which, like, I don't know how you could have because the internet is blowing up with this news, TI just dropped their newest calculator, the TI-84 Evo, and people are going gaga goo goo bananas for it.
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Like, we're talking Taylor Swift ticket pre-sale level cray, and I am here for it.
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Now, there are many reasons to be obsessed, but one of the things people are drooling over is the streamlined keypad, which features, wait for it, a dedicated fraction key.
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If you know, you know.
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You heard me, no more shift this or second function that.
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It's all there in its own key.
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Now, to celebrate, we are giving away an Oh My Math box, which includes a brand-new TI-84 Evo with a four-year online calculator license, a getting started guide, a calendar, and an absolutely adorable plushie calculator keychain in a mystery color.
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Now for the twist.
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How do you win this epic Oh My Math box?
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At some point during my interview with Amy, I'm going to share a code with you, and to enter the giveaway, all you have to do is text the podcast using the link in your app.
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Okay?
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There's a link that says text us.
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Use that link, text me the code, and I'll randomly pick a winner by June 26th.
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And just like that, the new TI-84 Evo is yours.
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Okay, are we clear?
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Are we ready?
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Are we pumped?
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I know I am, so let's get this show on the road.
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Amy, welcome to the podcast.
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Thank you.
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Amy is one of my absolute best friends, and my free therapist.
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Because she is...
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well, I've asked her to be my therapist a million times, but it is apparently not, you can't be-
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'Cause I wanted to be your friend.
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Right, exactly.
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And you can't therapize your friends for money.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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Correct.
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But because I talk to Amy so much about my own trauma and my own problems, I really wanted to have you on, to talk about math trauma in the very skilled way that I hear you help me every day.
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Okay.
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So I know I was gonna say how new is the term math trauma, but it's not'cause you hear me talk about it all the time.
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I remember when I first met you and checked out your Instagram and saw you, campaigning on the street about it.
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I- I was like,"Whoa.
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Who's this girl?" And I thought it was wonderful.
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And it, I mean, like so many people, even just when I tell them about you, it brought me to my own experiences, so
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Oh, my God.
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Tell us about your own experiences.
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it was just one of, like f- French and math I struggled.
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I had to take applied and that all, like, in high school, and that created its own challenge.
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Like, I just felt really ashamed of that.
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Mm.
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And I was definitely a drifter.
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I couldn't stay in the moment.
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The thing that stands out the most is my teacher from high school, his wife had him on a diet.
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Okay.
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And he would give us extra points if we went and got him a Krispy Kreme.
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Oh, my G- What are you saying?
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Amy, what?
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But he was actually so wonderful.
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So, like, this created, like, this, like, hilarious dynamic.
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And then also, he was very kind.
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He would allow us to take the test home on the weekend and do it again, and anything that we got right we would get half the points more.
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So-
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Oh, my God, he was really ahead of his time
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I really took advantage of that.
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And, um, He was incredibly open about the fact that, like, it's stressful for people.
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Okay.
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First of all, I'm curious how many Krispy Kremes he would get, like, on a period.
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I mean, definitely one from me almost every day.
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Oh, my God.
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So, like, his d- his, was his wife like,"How is your diet not fucking working?""Like, you're gaining so much weight."
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I'm sure.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Like, that's, the math is not mathing on that.
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Um, I'm...
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Okay, I wanna back up because I, when he let you take those tests home-
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Yeah
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did you cheat?
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No.
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No.
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I really wanted to learn, and I also really cared about- my marks.
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I went to an arts school.
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You had to keep a certain mark to stay in the arts program.
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Oh.
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So it was, like, high stakes for everyone, the, all my peers.
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Um-
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What was the mark you needed to keep?
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I think a 70.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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And I mean, I distinctly remember being in my own space at home being able to make more sense of things.
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This is so fascinating because that was 20 years ago?
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Yeah, it would've been, like, 2003, two.
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Which is so wild because we were so not doing that then, and it's interesting now.
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Like, I know you probably aren't familiar with all the things happening in math education, but one of the practices that I'm really trying to encourage and that other educators are trying to encourage is this idea of giving alternate forms of assessment because we, there was a recogni- a recognition that in a classroom setting, in a timed test- you are not performing- Yeah at, you know, you're not performing the way you could be performing.
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Totally.
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Right?
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Like- Yeah it's like your working memory is often hijacked.
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Like, your amygdala is like, wah, whatever.
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Like- Yeah right?
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'Cause that pressure, um, takes over.
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So it's really cool that he was doing that.
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And it's also, I kinda want everyone to hear this because sometimes we're like,"Oh, if we give students the chance to retake a test or to take something home or whatever, they're gonna cheat," right?
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Mm.
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They're gonna j- And it's really nice to just hear from you that you're like,"No." Like, I...
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You know, not every student is just trying to, you know, walk their way into a good mark.
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Mm.
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Students at the core, like my friend Jamie Mitchell always says, we need to assume positive intent, right?
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Like, students want to learn.
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I love this.
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This is, uh, I'll have to think more on my experience of that.
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It, when you were talking it made me think math teachers especially in high school,'cause that's when it kind of gets a little bit more focused, right?
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Mm.
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I think of them, other than this man, I can't remember his name right now, but I think of them as, like, very archetypically, like their identity seemed quite serious.
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Mm.
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And I think something about that also would set me off.
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I felt intimidated by all of them except for him.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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And again, like, I think educators need to hear that.
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Yeah.
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Right?
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That it's like, it's, I mean, who knows, it, like, hindsight is not always 20/20, but it is in some respects.
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So it's like, Yeah, I mean, like, I remember all of my teachers being, like, 100 years old.
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Mm.
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Do you know what I mean?
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Yeah.
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Like, that kinda thing, where it's just like...
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'Cause you're seeing them in relationship to you, right?
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At, at that time.
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So it's like, whether they are serious or not whether they consider themselves serious or not, there is this whole vibe that precedes the math teacher that I think we ha- as educators have to be aware of.
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Yeah.
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Right?
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Like, it's, like, up to us to soften that.
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That's interesting.
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Now, I wanna kinda go back to you being, like, being in applied in and of itself- set up an entire narrative.
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Question: Did you choose to go into applied or were you put in there?
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I chose.
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Okay, you chose So you chose to go into applied, and you were saying that that in and of itself created a story in your mind.
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Definitely.
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Well, you know, hopefully this has changed a little bit, but I think it just made me feel like I was less intelligent- because especially what math and science, I'll say, like is kind of seen as or was seen as.
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So that is something-
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What were they seen as?
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I think probably, the classes that You really needed to have, like, a keen brain, or, like, it was valued more, or, it was harder.
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Yeah.
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And I thrived in, in arts and, and writing and, and things like that.
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And I mean, I went into social work at a time that it was unusual to be an 18-year-old in a social work program.
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Um, so it took me probably a decade after school to really appreciate, like, my form of intelligence.
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My God, I'm just sitting with this of, like, I say this all the time of it is those, the math courses especially that we associate with intelligence.
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Like, even though it's bullshit.
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Like, we just, like, made it up.
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Like, why- Yeah like, I personally think, like, writing an English essay is the hardest thing on the planet.
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But, like, we call it...
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It's, like, part of the arts.
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Like, do you know what I mean?
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We take it less seriously.
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It's, like, somehow seen as, like, easier'cause it's more subjective.
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And, like, we are so focused on calling the people who excel in mathematics the smart ones that even if you're, like, a very gifted writer or artist, right?
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Like, how hard is it to, like, create art?
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Like, anyways, this idea of hardness and difficulty is interesting.
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Yeah.
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Well, it, it, as you're saying that, made me think of, like, it trickled into the, my experience with music theory too because it, it was, like, kind of this combination of, like, I suck at all that, and it just I think what you said earlier about, like, the overwhelm, the new, new way of, I guess, approaching this with kids really makes sense.
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Like, something about the pressure just made me go offline in my mind.
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Do you st- do you still consider yourself someone who's, like, anxious around math now?
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yes.
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I think-
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Like, you run your own business.
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Yes, I run my own business.
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I will say, like, to me, there's a little bit of an intersection of money.
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Like, uh, so I think I've noticed, like, tax season is a str- has been historically a stressor for me.
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Everyone stop right now and go listen to the episode I released a few weeks ago called...
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why smart people still feel out of control and what to do about it.
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I just, I...
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all I'm gonna say is go- where I literally start the episode having a full mentee be around tax season.
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Right.
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Like, I have an actual meltdown.
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Love it.
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So this is the perfect...
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Okay, keep going, though.
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So,'cause this is really important, what you're saying.
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Yeah.
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Tax season all of a sudden triggers money, and money is related to numbers, which is related to math.
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Yep.
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Well, and I think this- People.
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I feel like my own leaning towards taking on, let's say, sitting in my discomfort as I'm doing my taxes on my own and really trying to do it without my partner's support or anyone's support, like, it does feel like there's an element of gender as well, that I can only speak to on a personal level, has been, like, my own motivator.
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Um, I don't wanna be a woman, an adult woman, who can't take care of that stuff for herself.
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Mm.
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I mean, so it's, like, you don't probably even know this, but this is what so much of my research is on.
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Okay.
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And it's, everything you experience is completely validated by research.
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Okay.
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Just so you know.
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Beautiful.
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Yeah.
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It feels good, right?
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Yeah.
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To, like, know that.
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And that's, like, I think that's why it's important to, like, talk about this stuff, because we feel so isolated, like it's, like, some whole weird thing that we can't explain, but it's like this is all validated by research.
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There's a very gendered nature to women feeling this sense of out of control-ness- related to finances, that when we dig down, is often related to a math trauma that took place.
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It's often related to feeling less than in a classroom.
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By the way, I went to do a school visit, uh, last week.
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So I went to go visit schools and check out, like, the math therapy vibes in their classrooms, because a lot of these teachers had done math therapy book studies, so they were using the strategies in their classrooms.
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Went to an AP calculus class, so that is, like, a, you know, students elect to be in those classes.
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Like, you don't have to take calculus to graduate high school.
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There was two girls in the class.
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There was two girls and 18 boys.
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So even to this day- the gendered nature of math ability persists.
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It is not e- there, there's so much research that shows it is not because women or girls are less capable of math.
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They self-select out of math when it is no longer necessary because there's a million messages that tell them they don't belong in that classroom.
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So, like yeah, I just wanna say, this is such a, such a thing.
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It's bringing me to a lot of places in my mind.
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It's really-
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Oh my God, like where?
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I think it's just, like, I- I really, like a big part of my work and self-exploration is, is looking back to those moments.
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I think actually this conversation's helping me realize that that teacher had a really softening effect on me.
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What's his name?
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I can't remember.
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We should find him.
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I wonder if he still teaches there.
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Maybe he does.
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He was a lovely man.
00:14:42.794 --> 00:14:48.674
Um, he was funny and, and light-hearted, and he didn't take himself that seriously, but he was brilliant.
00:14:49.054 --> 00:14:54.434
Um, so e- even just thinking about his expression of masculinity, let's say- was really playful.
00:14:54.914 --> 00:15:02.414
but yeah, I'm th- it's making me emotional as you're talking, so I know that this is like, I would like to do some exploring of my own history.
00:15:02.495 --> 00:15:03.465
Oh my God.
00:15:03.465 --> 00:15:04.034
Yeah.
00:15:04.164 --> 00:15:08.375
Well, I love when someone sets me up for a perfect segue, and you've just done it.
00:15:08.375 --> 00:15:11.134
Like this is gonna Wait, wait till you guys see how skilled this is.
00:15:11.654 --> 00:15:27.351
So we're talking about the gendered nature of math here, and what we can also talk about is any time I go to a math conference, especially if I'm in a session, an elementary session, math conferences are mostly attended by elementary educators.
00:15:27.351 --> 00:15:28.961
It's not like there aren't high school teachers there.
00:15:28.961 --> 00:15:29.562
Of course there are.
00:15:29.562 --> 00:15:31.221
There's principals, there's high school teachers, there's coaches.
00:15:31.471 --> 00:15:32.851
They are largely elementary.
00:15:33.192 --> 00:15:35.881
And I would say a math conference is 80% women.
00:15:36.471 --> 00:15:37.201
That's interesting.
00:15:37.201 --> 00:15:37.432
Yeah.
00:15:37.461 --> 00:15:41.731
Most of the teachers that are in the room are women because most elementary teachers are women.
00:15:42.072 --> 00:15:42.131
Okay?
00:15:42.162 --> 00:15:43.532
We can probably find a stat on this.
00:15:43.532 --> 00:15:44.761
Dave, fact-check this for me.
00:15:44.792 --> 00:15:45.172
I see.
00:15:45.172 --> 00:15:45.312
Okay.
00:15:45.312 --> 00:15:46.381
I don't even need a fact-check.
00:15:46.381 --> 00:15:48.751
Like, I know this is true, but I'd like to know what the actual numbers are.
00:15:48.812 --> 00:15:49.101
Yeah.
00:15:49.142 --> 00:15:55.192
But most most elementary school teachers are women, but all elementary teachers have to teach math.
00:15:55.971 --> 00:16:04.772
Now, you don't know this, and maybe some of our listeners don't if you're not an educator, to be an elementary teacher you do not need any math university courses.
00:16:05.381 --> 00:16:10.412
To be a high school math teacher, you do need to have taken math at the college university level.
00:16:10.961 --> 00:16:11.221
Okay?
00:16:11.221 --> 00:16:17.652
So it's not like there aren't women who are high school math teachers, there are, but think about it this way.
00:16:18.072 --> 00:16:20.011
All elementary teachers have to teach math.
00:16:21.282 --> 00:16:27.221
Zero of them need to have taken math post-secondary and 80% of them are women.
00:16:27.692 --> 00:16:41.481
So what we now have now, and then given our conversation, we know that it is very likely to have an experience around math trauma, which we're gonna unpack in a second, to have an experience around math trauma at some point in school or when you're younger.
00:16:41.511 --> 00:16:54.481
So now we have these classroom teachers, these elementary teachers, 80% of whom are women, with- anxiety around math that probably in s- in many ways there's a gendered component to it.
00:16:54.481 --> 00:16:54.871
Right.
00:16:55.072 --> 00:17:01.572
And they're having to every day get up in front of their classroom and teach math, this subject that they do not feel 100% confident with.
00:17:01.951 --> 00:17:02.351
Wow.
00:17:02.572 --> 00:17:02.812
Yeah.
00:17:03.532 --> 00:17:09.991
And this is something I did an episode with Heidi Sabnani a couple weeks ago literally about this, called Anxious About Math?
00:17:09.991 --> 00:17:13.221
You Might Be the Best Person to Teach It, and we talk about teacher math anxiety.
00:17:13.521 --> 00:17:19.761
It is one of the biggest, one of the, the biggest issues in math education, and one of the least talked about issues in math education.
00:17:19.761 --> 00:17:22.291
And I'm really excited- that we're gonna talk about this now.
00:17:22.642 --> 00:17:33.821
Because we are working really, really hard to prevent math anxiety or to mitigate math anxiety on a student level, but these poor teachers with their own math anxiety are the ones tasked with doing it.
00:17:34.461 --> 00:17:35.801
This is amazing.
00:17:35.801 --> 00:17:35.862
Yeah.
00:17:35.902 --> 00:17:39.451
This is actually helping me understand your work in a really cool way.
00:17:39.612 --> 00:17:39.721
Yeah.
00:17:39.721 --> 00:17:39.932
I mean-
00:17:39.932 --> 00:17:42.761
Which I love this is all about me at the end of the day.
00:17:43.092 --> 00:17:43.892
Well, it's- It's phenomenal.
00:17:43.892 --> 00:17:45.481
Okay, so, okay, so maybe I'll take that.
00:17:45.481 --> 00:18:02.622
So, so I wanna really now spend some time talking about how we help teachers, how we help these adults who, because you are, I mean, you don't teach math, but I mean, l- well, now that we're digging through your past history, it's like there could be someone just like you who had this exact experience.
00:18:02.622 --> 00:18:14.041
Like, let's imagine it was you who had this experience of, like, in high school, like, you're in applied math, you have this great teacher, but you've already now developed this story about yourself that you're less intelligent than everyone else'cause you have to take applied math.
00:18:14.132 --> 00:18:14.291
Mm.
00:18:14.291 --> 00:18:26.132
And now you're in an elementary classroom teaching math to these kids, and A, maybe you're not 100% confident with the material, and B, you're petrified that you're like,"Fuck, I don't wanna make these kids anxious about math." Yeah.
00:18:26.412 --> 00:18:28.432
So what, how do we help these teachers?
00:18:28.821 --> 00:18:34.862
Like you know, what would be like, let's imagine you had a patient, like you had a client or, what do we call them?
00:18:34.862 --> 00:18:35.271
Clients.
00:18:35.701 --> 00:18:39.172
Uh, you had a client that was like,"Oh, man, I'm really struggling.
00:18:39.172 --> 00:18:39.402
You know?
00:18:39.402 --> 00:18:43.701
Like, I really wanna make sure I do the best job for these kids, but I'm anxious around math.
00:18:43.862 --> 00:18:49.531
I don't know how to get over my own math anxiety- but I also don't wanna traumatize these kids." Like, where, where would we start?
00:18:50.071 --> 00:19:18.422
This feels like it ties into something that I support almost every client with, which is to see the moments in your present day that kind of, like, rhyme with your past or is like a, some form of, like, a traumatic recreation, which it sounds like it would be for a lot of these teachers that have to teach something that was overwhelming for themselves, is, like, that's actually a moment of opportunity.
00:19:18.582 --> 00:19:21.711
It's like a really- like, sacred moment.
00:19:21.781 --> 00:19:33.791
So I would encourage framing entering into, like, that semester or that school year as, like, something deeper is going to happen that year because of the challenge.
00:19:33.961 --> 00:19:35.791
Oh my God, I love this.
00:19:35.872 --> 00:19:37.771
I love what you just said about a sacred moment.
00:19:37.771 --> 00:19:40.442
So right away we're reframing this moment.
00:19:40.442 --> 00:19:41.491
Tell me if I've gotten this right.
00:19:41.491 --> 00:19:43.602
Instead of being like,"Oh, fuck, here I go again-"
00:19:43.741 --> 00:19:43.991
Yeah
00:19:44.061 --> 00:19:49.741
"The stressful thing I'm just gonna try to get through," instead your energy around it is,"Okay, here I go." Yeah.
00:19:49.741 --> 00:19:53.382
"I'm entering a p- a sacred moment of potential healing."
00:19:53.971 --> 00:19:57.221
Yes, because I'm hearing there's two things available.
00:19:57.221 --> 00:20:04.192
There's their personal journey that's gonna be activated, and there's their opportunity to be a change maker for the kids.
00:20:05.082 --> 00:20:12.271
So- I think when it comes to, let's say, interacting with your students, I mean, there's...
00:20:12.701 --> 00:20:18.692
This is something that, I think can be really valuable for, for all e- elements of life.
00:20:18.721 --> 00:20:27.622
But, like, when you weave in your own personal experience to a teaching moment, it can connect and it can deepen.
00:20:27.932 --> 00:20:32.531
So I would suggest, like, maybe saying the quiet part out loud.
00:20:32.922 --> 00:20:41.511
Like, right away from f- first day of class or throughout to name your own experience of it being challenging for you, whatever it is, right?
00:20:42.001 --> 00:20:42.991
What could that look like?
00:20:43.122 --> 00:20:46.211
I th- I mean, it could look like my Krispy Kreme story.
00:20:46.241 --> 00:20:48.241
Like, what's a real anecdote?
00:20:48.652 --> 00:20:57.011
And you could even try and, like, playfully think beforehand, like,"What was my own personal challenge?" And, like, don't make it too, much.
00:20:57.011 --> 00:21:00.981
It could just be, like, that same little callback comes throughout the semester.
00:21:01.521 --> 00:21:02.041
but if that...
00:21:02.041 --> 00:21:03.821
Again, I think that there's probably...
00:21:03.821 --> 00:21:04.662
Like, I would...
00:21:04.692 --> 00:21:18.358
If I was supporting a teacher, I would bring it into, like, what's going on for them as they enter into that lesson, and what are they noticing, let's say, like, on a body or thought level.
00:21:20.642 --> 00:21:29.291
Okay, guys, I am so sorry to pause this amazing convo, but I have a very good reason because I am here with your top secret code for the TIO My Math Box giveaway.
00:21:29.521 --> 00:21:32.241
Okay, the code is ILoveFractions.
00:21:32.612 --> 00:21:39.102
All you have to do is click the link that says Send Us a Text in the show notes of whatever app you're listening to this episode in.
00:21:39.392 --> 00:21:43.041
Send the words ILoveFractions, and you'll be automatically entered into our giveaway.
00:21:43.261 --> 00:21:44.751
Okay, let's get back to the ep.
00:21:46.700 --> 00:21:52.940
First of all, I love this because I talk about this all the time, the idea of vulnerability as a superpower as a leader.
00:21:52.940 --> 00:21:53.109
Yeah.
00:21:53.109 --> 00:21:54.509
And as a teacher you are a leader.
00:21:54.589 --> 00:21:54.900
Yeah.
00:21:55.029 --> 00:22:05.509
Um, and I think a lot of teachers have been taught that, like, they need to pretend that they feel, like, amazing about math and they can't possibly speak of their anxiety'cause it's gonna, like, be contagious or something.
00:22:05.549 --> 00:22:11.450
And that causes its own pressure of, like, now not only are you, like, stressed about this thing, but you've gotta pretend you're not stressed.
00:22:11.490 --> 00:22:13.509
Which we all know how that goes, right?
00:22:13.509 --> 00:22:14.880
Like, that doesn't feel good.
00:22:15.369 --> 00:22:27.690
So, let's back off of, like, a teacher being like,"Okay, when I go into the classroom, like, I'm just so petrified I'm gonna make a mistake on the board, or a student's gonna ask me a question I don't know an answer to, and I start, like, freaking out."
00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:37.005
Well, okay, so, you know, a strategy, like, just- You could think of it as, like, you're narrating that moment.
00:22:37.115 --> 00:22:50.825
Like, let's say if that moment was muted, and it was in a scene in a movie, and a narrator was speaking over top, like, what would the narrator say about the teacher's experience to help the audience understand?
00:22:50.865 --> 00:22:53.545
And then just, like, bring that out of yourself and tell your students.
00:22:53.825 --> 00:22:57.255
Pause yourself, say like,"Wow, I'm really noticing I'm stressed right now.
00:22:57.255 --> 00:23:01.204
This is reminding me of my past," or,"Hey, does anyone notice, like, this is...
00:23:01.204 --> 00:23:11.875
I'm fumbling here." And that could be, like, actually the more powerful moment of the, of the lesson for the kids and for themselves.
00:23:12.904 --> 00:23:13.634
what do you think of this?
00:23:13.634 --> 00:23:14.664
I'm obsessed.
00:23:15.345 --> 00:23:15.595
I'm...
00:23:15.825 --> 00:23:19.884
What I'm thinking is I'm so pissed we're not, like, I can't post this clip on Instagram'cause we don't have any video.
00:23:19.884 --> 00:23:25.085
But I'm also like, this actually sounds like such a fun rom-com strategy.
00:23:25.164 --> 00:23:26.384
I love narration.
00:23:26.384 --> 00:23:27.744
I think I do it for me.
00:23:27.744 --> 00:23:32.605
Like, when I feel distressed, like even yesterday I was driving to come visit you.
00:23:32.605 --> 00:23:33.795
I wasn't in my own car.
00:23:33.795 --> 00:23:39.535
It was, like, a little bit much for me to be, like, h- all this kind of shenanigans that happened on my day.
00:23:39.875 --> 00:23:48.295
And I was like,"Oh, I feel uncomfortable." And so I just started, like, if this was being narrated, it would be, like, it would refer to, like, my challenging week.
00:23:48.325 --> 00:23:51.765
It would, like, maybe call back to, like, what I've been going through this year.
00:23:52.255 --> 00:24:02.654
it ma- you could even say, like, what previous scenes of your life, if it was a movie, would need to be, like, flashed and shown for the viewer to understand the moment you're in.
00:24:02.964 --> 00:24:04.924
I am obsessed with this.
00:24:04.924 --> 00:24:07.424
How how have we not woven this into our own personal therapy?
00:24:07.424 --> 00:24:07.555
I know.
00:24:07.555 --> 00:24:07.984
I'm like...
00:24:07.984 --> 00:24:16.505
'Cause I'm, like, right now thinking about a lot of situations- where I'm like,"Oh my God, I should..." Like, our music industry stuff, it would be so great to be like,"Okay, this moment is triggering you with this band.
00:24:16.744 --> 00:24:21.394
Flashback to this scene when we got totally screwed up." Like, first of all, it's making it a lot more fun.
00:24:21.424 --> 00:24:21.494
Yeah.
00:24:21.545 --> 00:24:22.785
Like, I'm seeing it as a comic strip.
00:24:23.154 --> 00:24:23.265
Yeah.
00:24:23.315 --> 00:24:23.765
Do you know what I mean?
00:24:23.765 --> 00:24:23.875
Yeah.
00:24:23.875 --> 00:24:25.585
Like, where you could, like, cut and paste scenes.
00:24:25.585 --> 00:24:25.924
Yeah.
00:24:25.954 --> 00:24:30.484
What I'm also honestly, Amy, thinking is this would be such a cool activity to do with students.
00:24:30.785 --> 00:24:30.964
Totally.
00:24:30.964 --> 00:24:36.355
Like, make a comic strip that led up to the current way you feel in math class right now.
00:24:36.505 --> 00:24:36.914
I love that.
00:24:36.914 --> 00:24:37.894
Like, this is so fun.
00:24:38.265 --> 00:24:49.015
But because this is about te- the teacher, and I wanna stick with the teacher'cause they don't get the attention, I really like this idea of pausing, creating that little comic strip just to, first of all, get some perspective.
00:24:49.424 --> 00:24:55.424
Because I think a lot of teachers are also like,"What the fuck is wrong with me?" Like,"Why can't I just get it together and teach this lesson?" And it's like, well, hold on.
00:24:56.055 --> 00:25:02.085
If you were gonna narrate this moment like, the viewer would be like,"Of course, this isn't about getting it together.
00:25:02.115 --> 00:25:04.305
Like, all of these things have led up to this moment.
00:25:04.305 --> 00:25:22.605
This moment isn't in isolation." And what I also love the most, the most, the most is the idea of then narrating it to the student to contextualize the experience because not only are you helping, are you humanizing the moment for the student, who probably feels the fucking same way but you're also taking the pressure off of you to be perfect.
00:25:23.204 --> 00:25:23.545
Right?
00:25:23.565 --> 00:25:26.535
So it's like, now you and the students are all on the same page.
00:25:26.875 --> 00:25:35.005
And you can be like,"Okay, guys, yeah, I'm fumbling because, oh my God, let me tell you guys this story about this teacher and how I was put into applied," and other students will be like,"Oh my God, I feel the same way."
00:25:35.605 --> 00:25:56.622
Love this, and I think this is where your work is so powerful to that field because I think what we can know is, like, to be able to soften people's bodies, have a laugh, like bring some levity to the moment, actually allows them to learn better.
00:25:57.442 --> 00:26:06.801
So it, and it's not like the f- I don't know, you can tell me if I'm understanding this, but it's not like the field of math needs to, like, really buckle down on the practicalities.
00:26:06.801 --> 00:26:08.872
Like that's, you got that.
00:26:08.872 --> 00:26:10.531
That's, you know, that's set.
00:26:10.991 --> 00:26:27.201
But what needs to happen to, like, bring it to more people is to humanize it and so it's like almost like this paradigm shift of, like, that is, let's front-load the lesson with that to make sure every lesson has that so that the rest can kind of flow.
00:26:27.332 --> 00:26:29.332
Can w- how do we get you in a school today?
00:26:29.981 --> 00:26:31.031
Like, get into a school.
00:26:31.031 --> 00:26:33.092
Oh my God, we should, like, go on tour together.
00:26:33.122 --> 00:26:34.051
Good, totally.
00:26:34.051 --> 00:26:35.301
How much fun would we have?
00:26:35.301 --> 00:26:36.402
Love this moment for us.
00:26:36.432 --> 00:26:37.951
Oh my God, because, like, we could even just...
00:26:37.951 --> 00:26:40.632
Okay, so anyway, so let's get back to- So we're narrating the experience.
00:26:40.632 --> 00:26:41.571
Strategy number one-narrate.
00:26:42.311 --> 00:26:46.701
Narrate, be vulnerable, front-load with a narration.
00:26:47.882 --> 00:26:51.261
Bring, you know, like make your experience visible for the audience.
00:26:51.451 --> 00:26:51.711
Right?
00:26:51.761 --> 00:26:52.102
Great.
00:26:53.382 --> 00:26:54.112
What else can we do?
00:26:55.092 --> 00:27:15.041
I mean, as we're talking about this, I feel like we're kind of toggling between m- the teachers are landing a little deeper in my heart because it's like probably they're always getting suggestions on how to improve, but what I'm hearing is actually they're going through a moment of their own activation.
00:27:15.041 --> 00:27:22.422
So I'm just like, I, you know, I think something that came to mind that feels like it's more for the students is to...
00:27:23.001 --> 00:27:35.551
This came up actually when I used to work with medical doctors, and it was, like, this idea of, naming directly that the doctor, because of the system we're in, the doctor has to be the gatekeeper to some of your health journey.
00:27:35.912 --> 00:27:37.682
They need to sign off on things et cetera.
00:27:37.711 --> 00:27:41.592
This was particularly when I was supporting people that, for gender confirmation surgery.
00:27:41.781 --> 00:27:44.571
It's like here we are in this system that exists this way.
00:27:44.602 --> 00:27:51.461
I have knowledge that, and I need to say yes to the things in order for you to feel like you can move on and and have the things in your life.
00:27:51.461 --> 00:27:55.001
So in math it's like in order for you to feel like you...
00:27:55.201 --> 00:28:01.132
'Cause math is so woven into, like, our personhood, you, for me and my taxes, it's like it's a thing you need.
00:28:01.741 --> 00:28:14.001
I think just naming the word gatekeeper, maybe deconstructing that for younger kids, but, like, I know that this is, I'm the person now that is having to give you this information.
00:28:14.001 --> 00:28:18.511
But, like, hopefully em- empowering kids to learn it in other ways.
00:28:18.511 --> 00:28:19.531
Is this making sense?
00:28:19.571 --> 00:28:21.342
W- this is, like, so deep.
00:28:21.342 --> 00:28:22.571
Like, I'm really...
00:28:22.571 --> 00:28:28.602
You've just said so many things that I'm like,"Oh my God." Like, I think you've touched on, like, 30 things I wanna talk about.
00:28:28.602 --> 00:28:29.662
But I really do wanna...
00:28:29.731 --> 00:28:33.221
I wanna dig a bit deeper into this gatekeeper idea.
00:28:33.362 --> 00:28:33.741
Are you...
00:28:33.741 --> 00:28:35.152
Tell me if I'm understanding.
00:28:35.761 --> 00:28:49.432
Are you saying that, like, it is useful for the educator, like, the, the comparison to the doctor is, like, the educator has to be the one to be like,"I'm signing off on the fact that you passed." Like, that you know this concept.
00:28:50.212 --> 00:28:54.772
Also them being like they also had a gatekeeper, many gatekeepers in their life who had to sign off.
00:28:54.782 --> 00:29:05.823
So, like the reason that teacher might not feel competent or confident is because they didn't get the sign-off they needed from somebody in their lives, but now they're playing this role for somebody else.
00:29:05.932 --> 00:29:06.452
Right.
00:29:06.492 --> 00:29:10.992
And just, again, it's like shine a flashlight on that and name it.
00:29:10.992 --> 00:29:13.992
Of course, we have to continue'cause we're all in this system.
00:29:14.292 --> 00:29:19.313
So y- the teacher does need to give you the pass or fail, but if the teacher can acknowledge...
00:29:19.313 --> 00:29:28.803
Like, I do this sometimes with my clients where it's like, you know, I think it can be really destructive for people to not think that a therapist or a doctor has their own challenges.
00:29:28.843 --> 00:29:36.762
So I'm not gonna spend the time sharing that, but I might say and name, like,"Here in this moment, there's, like, a, a power difference.
00:29:37.522 --> 00:29:43.853
But this isn't the only place where you can explore this part of your identity." And, you know, like, use this.
00:29:43.923 --> 00:29:46.042
You're in the driver's seat of your life.
00:29:46.042 --> 00:29:46.292
You...
00:29:46.492 --> 00:29:54.932
If I didn't have that teacher that gave me that opportunity to do my tests at home, I might have an even more challenging time sitting down with my taxes now.
00:29:55.393 --> 00:30:02.252
But, like, thankfully, I had a gatekeeper in that grade 11 or whatever it was that softened the experience.
00:30:02.252 --> 00:30:08.623
So I think, yeah, I don't know, like, I feel like I'm going a little bit meta with this,
00:30:08.623 --> 00:30:12.042
but- I love it though Because I do, I do see the connection.
00:30:12.042 --> 00:30:16.133
I actually think, in a way, it's like, uh, like re-parenting almost in a way.
00:30:16.133 --> 00:30:16.663
Yeah.
00:30:16.692 --> 00:30:16.853
Right?
00:30:16.853 --> 00:30:24.712
Like, for the teacher to be like,"Okay, I didn't have this-but I acknowledge that it played a role in how I feel about math." Right.
00:30:25.173 --> 00:30:29.863
I can now play this role in my students' lives of being like"Yeah, fine.
00:30:29.863 --> 00:30:37.563
Like, we are in this system." And I talk about this all the time, of how hard it is to do this work within the confines of the system,'cause you do have to pass-fail the t- You have to give them a grade.
00:30:37.563 --> 00:30:38.103
You have to whatever.
00:30:38.333 --> 00:30:45.742
But there are these windows and these moments, just like you had with Krispy Kreme teacher, I guess we're just calling him that- um, where it's like he softened it a bit.
00:30:45.772 --> 00:30:45.992
Yeah.
00:30:46.032 --> 00:30:53.782
And you still remember that, and I think this is so important for teachers to hear, is like y- your students are going to remember these moments.
00:30:53.782 --> 00:30:53.982
Yeah.
00:30:53.982 --> 00:31:04.262
It's like it could always be worse, and you're going to make it better, even if it's not the ultimate, you know, maybe they don't all get 100%, and they don't all get As, but they're still gonna remember these little moments.
00:31:04.323 --> 00:31:04.423
Yeah.
00:31:04.423 --> 00:31:10.442
And it's going to soften the trauma, it's gonna soften the anxiety, it's going to be a potentially corrective experience.
00:31:10.442 --> 00:31:14.982
So to get up in front of students and be like,"Hey, guys, I get that this can be kind of rough." Like, you know what I mean?
00:31:14.982 --> 00:31:21.752
Like, yes, like, there are grades, there are assessments, there are things you have to learn, but I see you.
00:31:21.923 --> 00:31:21.992
Mm.
00:31:21.992 --> 00:31:33.232
And this is part of the work I do too, of being like, what opportunities can you find to show students, and yourself as the teacher, that you are doing math in so many empowered ways that you have an, a unique take on?
00:31:33.553 --> 00:31:33.792
Right?
00:31:33.792 --> 00:31:35.653
Like, math does not just exist in the classroom.
00:31:35.833 --> 00:31:37.012
It's not just in the textbook.
00:31:37.012 --> 00:31:38.323
It's ju- not just on the paper.
00:31:38.532 --> 00:31:44.942
So when we can acknowledge that for our students and in ourselves, it can just be empowering and release the holds of that gatekeeping, I think, a bit.
00:31:45.272 --> 00:31:45.813
I love it.
00:31:45.903 --> 00:31:46.442
I love Okay.
00:31:46.442 --> 00:31:47.002
I love it.
00:31:47.002 --> 00:31:48.512
So now we have a teacher at the front of the room.
00:31:49.123 --> 00:31:50.452
They're doing the narration.
00:31:50.452 --> 00:31:51.573
They're like,"Okay, this is sick.
00:31:51.573 --> 00:32:00.383
I feel like, you know, my vulnerability is actually helping me, like, enter this moment a little more safely." They're reliving their own gatekeeping experiences- and redoing it for their students.
00:32:00.692 --> 00:32:07.502
And now one of the m- one of the things that can help teachers feel less anxious, and help all of us feel less anxious, is knowledge, right?
00:32:07.532 --> 00:32:08.363
Knowledge is power.
00:32:08.603 --> 00:32:16.873
And they're like,"Oh, man." There's a lot of teachers who are like,"Fuck." Like,"This, every time I get to this fractions lesson," or they have this opportunity to teach another grade, and they're like,"No, I ca- I can't.
00:32:17.113 --> 00:32:17.393
I can't.
00:32:17.393 --> 00:32:20.762
I've gotta stick with this grade." And now they're thinking,"I don't know.
00:32:20.762 --> 00:32:24.702
Maybe I do wanna learn some of this content that always, like, made, gave me the ick.
00:32:24.772 --> 00:32:30.932
Like, I wanna, like-" And there are lots of incredible educators out there doing the work of reteaching mathematics in a more empowered way.
00:32:31.313 --> 00:32:37.462
How do we get them to take that opportunity, even though they're like,"Oh, the last thing I wanna do is learn more math.
00:32:37.462 --> 00:32:38.853
I'm scared I'm not gonna learn it"?
00:32:38.853 --> 00:32:40.292
Like- Yeah how do we step into that?
00:32:41.143 --> 00:32:51.673
This is, again, I think touching on something that I, personally, I feel like it would be, like, my biggest thing, I w- if I had, like, a microphone to the whole world, I would try to-
00:32:51.673 --> 00:32:53.143
You do, kind of, right now, actually.
00:32:53.343 --> 00:32:55.863
That's what the internet is for.
00:32:56.093 --> 00:32:59.353
Like, I think challenge is the moment of opportunity.
00:32:59.353 --> 00:33:00.553
Challenge is sacred.
00:33:00.553 --> 00:33:13.462
So I, I'm thinking about this family that, and several families that I've supported, but one in particular where we talked about how the mom really faced a lot more intergenerational trauma than her daughters.
00:33:13.462 --> 00:33:21.242
So if you think of, like, the teacher, and the, you know, who were those teachers' teachers, you're, you had it worse in a way.
00:33:21.242 --> 00:33:23.113
Like, s- this was not being talked about.
00:33:23.643 --> 00:33:37.942
And so part of what I'm thinking in this moment is, like, this analogy of, like, a snowball rolling down a hill, and the teacher is, like, stopping it so that the next generation doesn't get blown over by the avalanche.
00:33:38.363 --> 00:33:55.782
That pressure in your body of holding it back, like, holding back the history, like,"I'm gonna kind of digest this moment rather than recycle it and have it happen to the younger people" is, like, s- so brave and truly, like, how we evolve as a collective.
00:33:56.633 --> 00:34:08.222
So I think it's part of, like, it, it's a person by person, if we can actually see these moments where we're triggered as, again, the moment of opportunity to digest what wasn't before us digested.
00:34:08.405 --> 00:34:10.985
Like, the snowball has sent me.
00:34:11.054 --> 00:34:11.954
That's the moment.
00:34:11.954 --> 00:34:12.335
You're right.
00:34:12.335 --> 00:34:17.355
You're holding up the ball rolling down the hill, and I just, I really love this framing.
00:34:17.355 --> 00:34:18.295
I just wanna pause.
00:34:18.295 --> 00:34:26.505
Like, this is the quote,"The challenge is the opportunity." It is a sacred opportunity for a corrective experience.
00:34:26.505 --> 00:34:26.894
Yeah.
00:34:27.054 --> 00:34:37.545
And also, I'm just like, how, you know, we have spent so much work trying to impart that message down onto students of being like,"Productive struggle.
00:34:37.545 --> 00:34:39.494
Like, the struggle is the thing.
00:34:39.494 --> 00:34:47.135
Like, it's process." Like, but you just The way you said that the challenge, it's not that that's the good thing or it's a learning moment, it's the opportunity.
00:34:47.135 --> 00:34:47.394
Yeah.
00:34:47.574 --> 00:34:51.434
And for teachers, it's the opportunity to stop that snowball rolling down the hill.
00:34:51.695 --> 00:34:51.994
Yeah.
00:34:52.375 --> 00:35:20.514
And it's And, and by doing that, you are evolving your own personal life, which I think is, like, so important for teachers bec- I mean, you know this way more than me, but, like, that's a form of deconstructing this, like, the devaluing of that role is, like, for us to even be naming this right now and saying, like,"This is a massive service that you're doing, and it's not just for the kids and for society.
00:35:20.514 --> 00:35:24.353
It's also It's making me think of I'm on a big Carl Jung kick, you know?
00:35:24.824 --> 00:35:31.085
But I'm learning about he, he believed that the first half of life is in the external world.
00:35:31.724 --> 00:35:42.284
So the kids are in their external world part of their life, and it's about tending to that so they can have these ex- these experiences that then they, after 40, they go inward with it.
00:35:42.565 --> 00:35:45.925
So the teachers are having a, their inward experience in the classroom.
00:35:46.103 --> 00:35:46.704
What?
00:35:46.704 --> 00:35:47.335
Wait, what?
00:35:47.335 --> 00:35:48.023
Say more about this.
00:35:48.023 --> 00:35:48.125
Like-
00:35:48.469 --> 00:35:52.708
It's like the content from their past is being activated in that moment.
00:35:53.114 --> 00:36:12.775
So I think, like, this, this summary is kind of the same recycled statement here of just, like, when you're triggered in the classroom because as a kid you had your own stress, seeing that as, like, a log on the fire internally to burn something that, like, is about your own life path.
00:36:12.934 --> 00:36:19.465
Like, if every person had their own personal mythology, trying to understand, like, what math and your own history...
00:36:19.465 --> 00:36:26.224
Let's say you're, like, you went into teaching because you really love music, but, oh, no, here I go, have to go into this math class for this semester.
00:36:26.755 --> 00:36:28.655
Like, what was it about your...
00:36:28.775 --> 00:36:35.224
What was happening in your childhood around the time when your particular math anxiety or trauma started?
00:36:35.875 --> 00:36:43.445
And so, like, perhaps pa- at the end of the math class that day, taking a moment to think of, like, how is this transforming my inner experience?
00:36:44.045 --> 00:36:44.905
Does it make sense?
00:36:44.934 --> 00:36:45.655
It totally does.
00:36:45.695 --> 00:36:48.594
It's, it's, it's deep but it makes sense, right?
00:36:48.594 --> 00:36:52.025
It's Okay, so again, let me try to- Let's see if I understand it, actually.
00:36:52.295 --> 00:36:55.954
To me, it's like creating a more holistic thread.
00:36:56.065 --> 00:37:01.934
Instead of looking at a math experience in isolation, to look at a math experience a- as part of your personhood.
00:37:01.934 --> 00:37:07.445
So I'm hearing you kind of be like you're in the math class now, present day- and things are coming up.
00:37:07.445 --> 00:37:08.684
Things are maybe being triggered.
00:37:08.684 --> 00:37:10.005
You're having some things come up.
00:37:10.005 --> 00:37:12.014
You're maybe repairing them in the moment.
00:37:12.014 --> 00:37:13.585
You're maybe being vulnerable with your students.
00:37:13.934 --> 00:37:24.405
And to take a minute to be like,"Back when I was 10 years old and having this math experience that gave me the ick, what else was going on for me as a human being?
00:37:24.405 --> 00:37:25.344
I was making new friends.
00:37:25.344 --> 00:37:26.204
I was at a new school.
00:37:26.204 --> 00:37:27.635
My parents were fighting at home.
00:37:27.635 --> 00:37:47.775
Like, I was, like, insecure about, like, I don't know, my new bangs or whatever." And now, like, just to be like that, that math experience in grade two was a piece of an entire person, and now looking at the person I am now, how does this new math experience tie in?
00:37:47.775 --> 00:37:48.905
Wait, now I'm confused.
00:37:48.905 --> 00:37:50.094
Am I right?
00:37:50.094 --> 00:37:50.335
Kinda?
00:37:50.335 --> 00:37:50.614
Yeah.
00:37:51.295 --> 00:37:53.144
I think if we could boil it down to like-
00:37:53.144 --> 00:37:54.005
Yeah, let's boil it down.
00:37:54.005 --> 00:37:54.445
I went off.
00:37:54.445 --> 00:37:55.554
I, I lost myself.
00:37:55.585 --> 00:37:56.815
I, I took us there.
00:37:56.885 --> 00:38:09.362
But, like, I'm seeing, like, I'm trying to think of, like, a teacher and, and how much they have on their plate, and probably it's a big ask to make this a meaningful moment.
00:38:09.402 --> 00:38:27.461
But if it is intersecting with your own wounding, to carve any kind of moment that feels like it's stepping inside of yourself rather than having it be only living in the external world.
00:38:27.681 --> 00:38:29.202
The kids are in their external.
00:38:29.722 --> 00:38:35.731
You're gonna use your words and speak and share stories and help them with their behaviors and their learning.
00:38:37.181 --> 00:38:49.452
Something is simultaneously happening to the teachers, and that could look like a hand on your heart, or it could look like maybe taking some time to talk to someone who gets it before the semester starts, and that's all it is.
00:38:49.811 --> 00:39:00.481
Could be like if you really wanted to have this fuel your personal development, it could be like some kind of ritualized experience pre and post class or pre and post semester.
00:39:01.186 --> 00:39:06.356
I think we have to look at our math experiences not in isolation, but as a part of our growth as human beings.
00:39:06.387 --> 00:39:14.237
So whatever happened back then, like using air quotes was a part of our growth as a human being, and now we are in the classroom however many years later.
00:39:14.626 --> 00:39:23.336
And to realize that our responsibility is not just, like, at all costs you're just serving the kids.
00:39:23.597 --> 00:39:26.086
It's I mean, I think it's the classic thing about teachers.
00:39:26.086 --> 00:39:31.936
Like, as we teach, we say this about just math, the best way to learn something yourself is to teach it to someone else.
00:39:32.407 --> 00:39:44.266
And maybe we can translate that to the best way to learn yourself, to- to unlearn and relearn your story of yourself as a mathematician or a doer of math, is to teach that to someone else.
00:39:44.277 --> 00:39:53.416
So in a teaching and providing this beautiful experience for students, you're also providing that experience for yourself, and we need to take a moment and honor that.
00:39:53.996 --> 00:39:55.117
Does that sort of make sense?
00:39:55.117 --> 00:39:56.036
Absolutely.
00:39:56.137 --> 00:40:14.646
I think it is that adage of, like, we don't think about it this way, but if we- if a student was like,"What's the best way to relearn this material for an exam?" We'd be like,"Go teach it to someone else." And the best way for you to- to rewrite your story as a learner and- and doer of math is to teach a new story to someone else as well.
00:40:14.786 --> 00:40:15.327
Beautiful.
00:40:15.577 --> 00:40:21.336
And, like, I always say, like, I think we're talking about this in different words but in the same way, like my big thing is celebration.
00:40:21.347 --> 00:40:30.427
I'm like if you have a single moment where you're like,"Oh, that wasn't so bad," or,"Oh, I did this thing I didn't think," or,"I made a mistake on the board and I didn't have a meltdown," like pop a fucking confetti cannon.
00:40:30.507 --> 00:40:30.606
Right.
00:40:30.606 --> 00:40:34.467
Like, that is a moment like h- like you said, hand on heart.
00:40:34.467 --> 00:40:39.996
Like, that's a moment to be like,"Holy shit," like,"look what I just did." Don't just run by that moment.
00:40:41.110 --> 00:40:44.599
What's, like, the common thread between the teachers that you meet?
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:49.500
Like, what, uh, picturing them listening to this, like, is there something we've missed?
00:40:49.789 --> 00:40:53.800
Well, if you're listening to this right now, I, we want you to text the podcast.
00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:53.869
Okay.
00:40:53.869 --> 00:40:59.079
Like, is there some- so Amy is one of my absolute best friends in the world, so we can have her back on any time.
00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:02.269
So if you have questions about this, tell us.
00:41:02.300 --> 00:41:03.650
Is there something we missed?
00:41:03.650 --> 00:41:04.750
Is there something you wanna hear?
00:41:04.750 --> 00:41:06.559
Is there something you'd like to ask her about?
00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:08.039
Is Like, please text us.
00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:09.469
You can find the link in your show notes.
00:41:09.469 --> 00:41:20.650
So do that, And then I will say to you- There's, you know, when I talk about math trauma, which is, is literally defined as a negative experience with math that sticks with you- long after it's over.
00:41:20.811 --> 00:41:20.920
Right.
00:41:20.920 --> 00:41:21.170
Right?
00:41:21.170 --> 00:41:24.740
Like, I like how you said it earlier, like a distressing event that has stuck with you.
00:41:24.931 --> 00:41:25.170
Yeah.
00:41:25.311 --> 00:41:26.670
There are so many types, right?
00:41:26.670 --> 00:41:30.840
That can take shape in the way it did with you, somebody g- get, you know, being in an applied math class.
00:41:31.030 --> 00:41:35.610
It can be being bullied, it can be being yelled at, it could be just feeling like you're being compared to everyone in the room.
00:41:35.610 --> 00:41:37.510
It could be com- being compared to a friend or a sibling.
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:39.541
It could be an undiagnosed learning difference.
00:41:39.780 --> 00:41:44.510
When I talk to teachers,'cause I do this work with teachers, they will cite a lot of these things, right?
00:41:44.510 --> 00:41:51.061
They'll say,"Oh, my God," and then,"There was this teacher who made me feel so stupid." A lot of it comes from other teachers, it comes from parents, it comes from the peers.
00:41:51.061 --> 00:41:58.331
Like, there are a lot of ways in which you can have a distressing experience in mathematics that sticks with you, especially if that thing is repeated.
00:41:58.471 --> 00:41:58.670
Right?
00:41:58.670 --> 00:42:00.371
Like, over and over again happens.
00:42:00.871 --> 00:42:09.130
and the way that manifests in the classroom is, being really scared and anxious and going, you know, f- going into fight, flight, freeze when you're about to teach a lesson.
00:42:09.190 --> 00:42:09.480
Right.
00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:13.789
Another big way it happens is we have all these beautiful new instructional practices, right?
00:42:13.789 --> 00:42:17.840
Like for example, your Krispy Kreme teacher sending that test home.
00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:19.989
We have all of these practices we're trying to encourage now.
00:42:19.989 --> 00:42:29.010
Like, giving students multiple way- times to read, write a test, or teaching math in a different way, and a lot of teachers are just too scared to try it because they're like,"But what if...
00:42:29.389 --> 00:42:37.670
like, I understand this one way of teaching math.""I'm gonna stick to it, because if I try this other way, it's gonna threaten the entire foundation of which I stand," right?
00:42:37.670 --> 00:42:38.139
So, like-
00:42:38.750 --> 00:42:40.010
The, the foundation-
00:42:40.010 --> 00:42:41.500
Of being like,"I understand this.
00:42:41.500 --> 00:42:47.059
I'm too scared to try to teach math in a different way or teach fractions by this different method,'cause what if I don't get it?
00:42:47.420 --> 00:42:49.679
What if a student asks a question I don't understand?"
00:42:49.849 --> 00:42:49.949
Right.
00:42:49.949 --> 00:43:02.760
"At least if I just stick to the script and the way I've been taught to teach it I don't have to feel those feelings." So I think you've touched on this beautiful thing of- the feeling of those feelings- that challenge is the opportunity.
00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:15.349
Like, if they fumbled, and if they were able to say, like,"Oops, didn't do that right" or,"I have to, you know, go back to the drawing board on this lesson," that's actually the bigger takeaway.
00:43:15.349 --> 00:43:16.420
Could be a bigger takeaway.
00:43:16.420 --> 00:43:17.630
Could be the bigger takeaway.
00:43:17.659 --> 00:43:22.130
And again, I was in a classroom a couple weeks ago that I watched a teacher make a mistake.
00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:23.699
We were doing some factoring, and he made a mistake.
00:43:23.730 --> 00:43:26.090
We were all, we all saw the mistake, and students were like,"Hold on.
00:43:26.090 --> 00:43:28.630
Isn't that number supposed to be-7?" And he was like,"What?
00:43:28.630 --> 00:43:30.610
What?" And then he clued in and was like,"Oh.
00:43:30.940 --> 00:43:31.639
Oh, my gosh.
00:43:31.639 --> 00:43:31.730
Oops.
00:43:31.730 --> 00:43:32.510
Yeah, it totally was.
00:43:32.510 --> 00:43:33.079
Good catch."
00:43:33.079 --> 00:43:33.170
Nice.
00:43:33.170 --> 00:43:35.260
And I was like,"What a beautiful moment."
00:43:35.460 --> 00:43:35.980
Yes.
00:43:35.980 --> 00:43:36.170
Right?
00:43:36.170 --> 00:43:46.250
Like, in those moments, but again, if you are carrying your own math trauma and you have an insecurity around math, that moment is so threatening,'cause you're like,"They're gonna find out I'm an imposter."
00:43:46.250 --> 00:43:52.309
Ugh, it's like an unmasking of, like, so many people in society right now.
00:43:52.309 --> 00:43:53.000
That is, the...
00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:54.059
I love hearing this.
00:43:54.099 --> 00:43:54.449
Oh, what, pause.
00:43:54.449 --> 00:43:56.130
Sorry, you can't just make a statement like that.
00:43:56.300 --> 00:44:02.106
Well, it's just like the, it's like this, what you've been talking about around- the vulnerability is a superpower.
00:44:02.445 --> 00:44:03.536
And this is so interesting, right?
00:44:03.536 --> 00:44:07.405
Like, you can, it lands as c- more confident-
00:44:07.648 --> 00:44:08.009
100%
00:44:08.009 --> 00:44:09.219
we were talking about this yesterday.
00:44:09.648 --> 00:44:13.909
Lands as more confident when you can name your vulnerability.
00:44:14.179 --> 00:44:19.849
Or, like, ooh, like again, narrate or bring out the truth of what's happening in the inner world of like,"Oh, wait.
00:44:20.048 --> 00:44:23.898
I didn't, I didn't get this right." That's a way to be a bigger...
00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:28.579
And again, like, it does bring me to the patriarchy'cause I'm like, this is deconstructing.
00:44:28.579 --> 00:44:28.778
Yeah.
00:44:28.838 --> 00:44:30.248
At the end of the day, it all comes back to it.
00:44:30.278 --> 00:44:32.248
It real- it really, really does.
00:44:32.708 --> 00:44:34.688
So teachers are amazing.
00:44:35.119 --> 00:44:35.438
Sorry,
00:44:35.438 --> 00:44:37.068
can you just finish the patriarchy thought, though?
00:44:37.068 --> 00:44:45.878
Well, uh, one of my favorite sayings comes from one of my favorite decks of cards, that is like,"Don't be the coconut, hard on the outside with mushy inside.
00:44:46.657 --> 00:44:52.751
Be the avocado, strong at the core and yielding outside." I always wanted to get a c- avocado tattoo.
00:44:53.081 --> 00:44:53.161
But-
00:44:53.161 --> 00:44:54.610
Oh my God
00:44:54.610 --> 00:44:57.280
so I think of the patriarchy as the h- the avocado.
00:44:57.280 --> 00:45:01.570
It's like, what is going on inside of the, like, the mush of it all?
00:45:01.570 --> 00:45:01.751
It's like-
00:45:01.751 --> 00:45:03.061
Wait, no, the patriarchy's the coconut
00:45:03.061 --> 00:45:03.860
sorry, the coconut.
00:45:03.860 --> 00:45:04.170
Yeah.
00:45:04.170 --> 00:45:04.791
The coconut.
00:45:05.621 --> 00:45:07.581
And so I don't know.
00:45:07.731 --> 00:45:09.090
That's, that's where my mind goes with that.
00:45:09.090 --> 00:45:09.690
I th- I think that's it.
00:45:09.690 --> 00:45:11.710
I don't think anything else needs to be said.
00:45:11.960 --> 00:45:13.590
I think, that's it.
00:45:13.590 --> 00:45:14.610
Be the avocado.
00:45:14.721 --> 00:45:15.351
Be the avocado.
00:45:15.351 --> 00:45:16.351
Be the fucking avocado.
00:45:16.351 --> 00:45:18.300
Everyone loves avocado.
00:45:18.351 --> 00:45:18.550
Yeah.
00:45:18.550 --> 00:45:20.021
It's very trendy these days.
00:45:21.161 --> 00:45:22.460
Be the avocado.
00:45:22.581 --> 00:45:23.391
What a beautiful...
00:45:23.391 --> 00:45:24.780
I mean, I could talk to you forever.
00:45:24.780 --> 00:45:25.400
I know.
00:45:25.431 --> 00:45:33.530
I think this is such a, a perfect way to wrap up, and I mean, I am thinking so many things, and I'm really excited for people to hear this.
00:45:33.530 --> 00:45:36.701
Because you've given us some actual strategies teachers can use right now.
00:45:37.481 --> 00:45:41.210
You've given us some strategies that leaders and coaches can use with the teachers they help.
00:45:41.210 --> 00:45:42.780
Like, these are really practical.
00:45:43.150 --> 00:45:45.501
And I just, I just think it's gonna be, it...
00:45:45.550 --> 00:45:46.710
I, I just think that's it.
00:45:46.900 --> 00:45:48.451
The challenge is the opportunity.
00:45:49.710 --> 00:45:56.340
You know, your anxiety and past traumas are, are yielding to a sacred moment that is happening for you right now.
00:45:56.340 --> 00:46:03.960
And I think that reframing of instead of going into it with the energy of avoidance and resistance is the opening of being like,"All right, I'm in.
00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:06.420
I'm, I'm surrendering to this sacred moment.
00:46:06.420 --> 00:46:09.391
Let's see what opportunity it presents," and that's all you have to do.
00:46:09.771 --> 00:46:10.360
Beautiful.
00:46:10.630 --> 00:46:10.710
Ugh.
00:46:11.780 --> 00:46:12.260
Okay.
00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:14.731
We are wrapping up with the final two questions I ask everyone.
00:46:14.731 --> 00:46:14.990
Okay.
00:46:15.221 --> 00:46:16.190
You've got 30 seconds.
00:46:16.190 --> 00:46:16.451
That's...
00:46:16.451 --> 00:46:17.251
It's not a timed test.
00:46:17.251 --> 00:46:19.041
You have as long as you want- but, like, you don't have to...
00:46:19.481 --> 00:46:24.010
Question number one is if there's one thing you could change about the way math is taught in schools, what would it be?
00:46:24.141 --> 00:46:25.090
Oh, my.
00:46:25.940 --> 00:46:28.380
One thing I could change.
00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:33.800
I, I mean, this is probably some- pe- people say this probably a lot, but, like, make it practical.
00:46:34.170 --> 00:46:36.090
How the hell will I be using this?
00:46:36.661 --> 00:46:37.760
That's why I checked out.
00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:42.780
I was like,"This is not my path." But I sit down to do my taxes every year and it stresses me out.
00:46:42.780 --> 00:46:43.771
So yes, that.
00:46:44.291 --> 00:46:45.041
Well, we could...
00:46:45.070 --> 00:46:47.451
I don't know why we're not teaching people how to do their fucking taxes.
00:46:47.451 --> 00:46:51.110
Yeah, or save, or, like, what are the, like, co- like, we just renewed our mortgage.
00:46:51.110 --> 00:46:52.731
Like, that was a full lesson.
00:46:52.731 --> 00:46:53.451
I still don't get my mortgage.
00:46:53.451 --> 00:46:54.840
I- I still don't even know what the fuck's going on.
00:46:54.981 --> 00:46:55.681
I know.
00:46:55.931 --> 00:46:56.271
Fuck.
00:46:56.400 --> 00:46:56.681
Yeah.
00:46:56.681 --> 00:46:56.840
Okay.
00:46:56.840 --> 00:46:57.141
Love it.
00:46:57.141 --> 00:46:57.661
Make it practical.
00:46:57.661 --> 00:47:02.061
All right, number two, if someone listened to this whole thing and they were like,"Yeah, I get it.
00:47:02.061 --> 00:47:03.085
I get what she's saying.
00:47:03.119 --> 00:47:03.369
but I...
00:47:03.400 --> 00:47:05.809
Honestly, I just think I'm not a math person," what would you say?
00:47:07.269 --> 00:47:07.940
Oh, wow.
00:47:08.898 --> 00:47:15.141
I would say that math is fundamental to the universe, so everyone has it in you.
00:47:15.590 --> 00:47:19.844
And use it as an entry point to understand yourself more.
00:47:20.733 --> 00:47:22.853
What a beautiful way to put it.
00:47:22.853 --> 00:47:24.043
That's so nice.
00:47:24.253 --> 00:47:24.884
I love you so much.
00:47:24.914 --> 00:47:26.233
I love you so much.
00:47:26.284 --> 00:47:27.724
Okay, and that's a wrap.
00:47:27.724 --> 00:47:28.054
That's it.
00:47:28.054 --> 00:47:29.094
That's all she wrote.
00:47:29.094 --> 00:47:29.744
I mean, I...
00:47:29.744 --> 00:47:30.043
Okay.
00:47:30.043 --> 00:47:31.903
Guys, I really want you to text the podcast.
00:47:31.903 --> 00:47:34.914
So I feel like I'm gonna leave this and I'm gonna have a million things I wish I'd asked.
00:47:35.204 --> 00:47:36.583
So we wanna hear from you.
00:47:36.583 --> 00:47:37.713
You have Amy...
00:47:37.713 --> 00:47:39.123
I was gonna say you have Amy at your beck and call.
00:47:39.123 --> 00:47:39.923
That's actually not true.
00:47:39.923 --> 00:47:43.233
Um, but I could probably convince her to be back on the pod.
00:47:43.304 --> 00:47:43.864
Definitely.
00:47:43.864 --> 00:47:44.704
Send us your questions.
00:47:47.782 --> 00:47:50.182
I mean, is Amy not the most amazing?
00:47:50.233 --> 00:47:51.603
I'm sorry, guys, she's my best friend.
00:47:51.603 --> 00:47:52.353
You can't have her.
00:47:52.594 --> 00:47:57.981
but you can learn more about the amazing Amy Johnston by heading to the show notes and finding out more.
00:47:57.981 --> 00:47:58.922
We've got links in there.
00:47:58.922 --> 00:48:00.222
We've got some info about her.
00:48:00.612 --> 00:48:02.822
And guys, I just wanna say thank you so much for being here.
00:48:03.092 --> 00:48:07.931
Thank you for listening past the TI giveaway, which I know a lot of you came here for.
00:48:08.641 --> 00:48:16.362
And I know you probably could not stop listening to this episode because Amy dropped so much knowledge, and I would love to know what your takeaways are.
00:48:16.362 --> 00:48:23.331
So feel free to hit that Text Us button again, and let me know what your biggest takeaway from this episode was.
00:48:23.521 --> 00:48:25.242
Did it change your perspective on something?
00:48:25.402 --> 00:48:27.192
Did it give you a little bit of healing?
00:48:27.211 --> 00:48:31.262
And did it give you a little impetus to try something new this summer?
00:48:31.702 --> 00:48:32.112
All right.
00:48:32.141 --> 00:48:35.592
Next week, I will be here, same time, same place, same channel.
00:48:35.771 --> 00:48:38.202
In the meantime, you can join our Facebook group.
00:48:38.202 --> 00:48:39.791
We're almost at 500 members.
00:48:40.041 --> 00:48:44.512
Just head to Facebook, type in Math Therapy, click Join, and you'll be let in.
00:48:44.512 --> 00:48:47.532
It's an amazing community of people supporting one another.
00:48:47.751 --> 00:48:50.181
You can find me on Instagram@themathguru.
00:48:50.222 --> 00:49:04.032
And you should know that this episode was produced by the one and only David Kochberg, and while I was recording the intro and outro, there were construction noises the entire time, so if you can't hear them, that's because David is awesome.
00:49:04.081 --> 00:49:09.121
And I should also tell you that the music you're listening to right now is by our band.
00:49:09.141 --> 00:49:10.092
Me and David have a band.
00:49:10.101 --> 00:49:13.143
It's called Goodnight Sunrise, so look us up, stream us.
00:49:13.202 --> 00:49:14.902
Maybe it's, like, your new summer soundtrack.
00:49:15.226 --> 00:49:15.686
Okay.
00:49:15.987 --> 00:49:16.628
Love you guys.
00:49:16.697 --> 00:49:17.338
You're amazing.
00:49:17.347 --> 00:49:17.838
You're awesome.
00:49:17.838 --> 00:49:19.438
Thank you for all the work you do.
00:49:19.447 --> 00:49:24.137
You are making a difference, and thank you for listening to this during the summer months.
00:49:24.148 --> 00:49:29.927
It just shows how dedicated you are to doing the work because you are a teacher through and through.
00:49:29.958 --> 00:49:34.307
You are a healer through and through, and I just think you're the best.