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Good food brands don't usually get stuck because of the product.
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They get stuck somewhere between a great idea and commercial growth.
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Welcome to Making Mighty, the Challenger Food and Drink Growth Podcast.
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I'm Simon Greenwood Haig, and in season two, we're unpacking exactly how good food and drink brands get unstuck.
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Every episode is packed with practical advice, honest conversations, and straightforward commercial thinking to help challenger brands grow without the corporate waffle.
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Let's get into it.
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So today I've got the pleasure of being joined by Flis Newland from Wild Things.
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I'm really excited to have her on to talk about building a brand in what is a really busy and competitive space.
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So thank you so much for joining us.
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Before we get into some of the questions in the episode, could you just give listeners a quick overview of who you are, your business, and what you do, please?
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Absolutely.
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Thank you so much for having me on.
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So yeah, so I'm Fliss, I'm the founder of Wild Things Sweets.
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We make natural fruity gummy sweets with half the sugar of the average sweetie.
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Our mission is, I guess, making sweets that grownups feel really good about and kids go wild for.
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So yeah, I guess we'll get more into it.
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But I left a big corporate company, Mondeleys, uh big that owns Cadbury's Mayor's Bassett to set up my own challenge brand.
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So I've kind of seen both sides of the coin.
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Um, but yeah.
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Amazing.
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Yeah, incredible experience.
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I mean, I've had a similar journey myself, so it's yeah, always interesting to hear what bits you've rejected and accepted from from that world as well.
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But um if you take us back to when Wild Things first felt properly stuck, what what what made you feel stuck and what did you do about it?
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In terms of stuck, what do you mean?
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So a point in time where you didn't know what direction to go, or you were having a challenge you didn't know how to get through it.
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Any of those sort of things.
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Simon, that's like everyday, isn't it?
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I mean, and we were a startup, but no, so well, an early example of this is when I took on the business, it wasn't the brand wasn't called Wild Things.
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The brand was a fantastic vegan sweetie brand called Veggie Bears.
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It had a very specific kind of vegan uh positioning.
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I'm a vegan, we're a very, very small um proportion of society.
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So I was like, how do we give this more mainstream appeal?
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Because the sweets tasted amazing and they happened to be, as I've said, half the sugar and natural.
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So just I guess it's that sort of a stuck piece, but there was a lot of thinking that had to go into how are we going to brand this product, how are we gonna name this product, who are we targeting this product for?
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And I had a gut feeling that parents, um, parents with kind of kids, we say between four and 12, like pre-teen, post-baby, would care about it.
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But that took a lot of kind of consumer research and um the whole process getting to the design and the brand positioning and um how we would take this essentially from like a really niche proposition to a credible mainstream brand was just hard in itself and took a lot of thinking.
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But yeah, I mean, stuck.
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I mean, we have literally every day is a school day.
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I'm learning every minute every week.
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And I actually think one of my things I have to get over as a founder is not kicking myself about not doing things sooner, but just rolling with the punches and pivoting and trying to embrace that pivoting is just a reality of being in a challenger brand.
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I think that's what I've been hard, you you know, hard with.
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But um, yeah, I think we're we're stuck every week, but we're always kind of like overcoming and looking at different ways to tackle stuff.
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I think it really gives people to hear that expect to get stuck, but I think the expect to pivot is really important because I see uh I speak to loads of people and I see a variety of reactions to no, actually, we should be really firm and focused and obsessed with a few things and not deviate from that path.
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And there's merit to that.
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But I think if you I think the majority of people, if you said you're 10 years into business, have you built the business you expected to 10 years ago?
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The answer is probably now it's quite different in a number of different ways.
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So I think that expectancy that you're going to have to pivot, you're gonna get stuck, you're gonna need to pivot, be prepared to do that, and don't don't overinvest in something when you might need to pivot, I guess, as well, is probably quite doing and doing more of that learnings like do the learnings when it's lowest stakes, like tweaking on your packaging or tweaking on your messaging.
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And I wish I'd done even more of that.
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I feel like we did I did a lot of consumer research, but I mean, just recently we've just basically launched some new um products and new flavours that are now a slightly different pricing, different packaging design.
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It's still the same North Star.
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Like I still believe in terms of our USBs about being half the sugar and natural, our target demographic is families with kids.
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But there's been so much below below that that we've pivoted and like our market go-to-market strategy and you know what retailers are going after, our marketing spend, like all of that stuff, the let's be honest, infinite number of decisions.
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What you do with this brand, I think I'm coming more and more comfortable with that.
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We need to make sure we're like basically looking at what's worked well and do more of it and what hasn't worked, and either refine, ditch, um, yeah, or do do things better.
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So that ongoing process of kind of continuous improvement is something you just have to embrace and you have to get over it, and you can't kick yourself for your mistakes.
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Because I say to my team, like, if we're not making mistakes, then we're not swinging big enough, we're not taking enough risks.
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So getting over that fear of failure, like actually fail it as your friend, and just move on it, quick move off, move on from it all quickly, as quickly as you can, and as cheaply as you can.
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Yeah, I like that phrase used that take the learnings when the lower stakes, it's yeah, that's really important.
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And I think some of the learnings and the test and the failing fast, testing and learning, all those phrases are really important.
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But you can you have as a challenger, one of the strengths you have and a startup scale up brand is you can afford to make these leaps and they are lower stakes.
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Once you start becoming a 10, 15, 50 million pound business, the stakes are much higher.
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So learn while you have the right to and use that as your superpower.
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Yeah, I like that a lot.
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So true.
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So you mentioned in your intro though, so you started life and Mondeley's, or your last role was Mondley's working on brands like Cadbury Maynards, and then you took over a small vegan sweets business.
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What did you see in it initially that made it be the thing you want to leave the big corporate life for?
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I I saw potential in a really good product, which I can't claim.
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Like the formulation, the taste of these sweets, I was like, they taste brilliant.
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Like that, that has never been my experience.
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And I actually think that is the hard bit in terms of product development, manufacturing, ops.
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Like it my time at Londonese was very commercial marketing sales.
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So I had always dreamed of setting up my own thing.
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I'd always yearned to do something that was more aligned with my purpose and aligned to my values, but this um opportunity essentially kind of fell on my lap.
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I heard about it through a friend of a friend.
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Um, oh, this, you know, this sweetie business is looking for a new home.
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And I feel like it found me a little bit, but to answer your question, what struck me as really exciting was the actual product taste.
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I was like, that to be a better for you and to be so significantly nutritionally better than what's out there and natural, but without tasting rubbish, tastes fantastic.
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I was like, this is a bit of a gem.
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So and I and I do think that's the hard bit.
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And I think there's people, the bit that people sometimes forget about.
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We do there's a lot of brands out there nowadays that are very functional, they can solve this and do that, give you this, but just a really great tasting product like can like I feel like the the the the rest of it um should become a lot easier if you've got that to start with.
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Yeah, yeah, and you have to have you have to be confident to do that, and confident that you are great tasting, which you are by the way.
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I've tried the product, it's amazing.
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Um but you're right, it's it's not always a given.
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There might be some perfectly marketed, perfect proposition products that just don't slap when it was food and drink, it needs to taste amazing.
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Like that's the first that's the first barrier to to purchase or repurchase.
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Um I think that's and actually and actually the other thing in my book was that they had a fantastic manufacturer set up that were able to scale.
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So again, it's something can taste fantastic in your kitchen, but we both know like you need it to be tried, tested, literally, and and having trust.
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I mean, we're selling food, the stakes are quite high in terms of like allergens, we're allergic-free brands, like there's stuff there, like as I say, it's outside of my wheelhouse and my depth, but having a fantastic production kind of partner with a great recipe that you know can deliver taste, texture, good shelf life.
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It's like to me, these are the foundations that we build these brands on.
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Like you can have the best concept and idea in the world, but if it doesn't, like I say, get outside your kitchen, then it's kind of like so what?
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So I felt so excited because I'm like, wait, these are the this is the hard stuff that the recipe's nailed and it can be produced and it can be scaled.
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Okay, cool.
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This is where where the you can do you can do all the exciting marketing and sales bits on top.
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So yeah, great days and product, but a good facility that can produce it at scale for you.
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Yeah, and it's such a common place where people fall down, I think, as well.
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But I guess in that, there's probably a lesson around as a founder, knowing what your strengths are, what you're good at, what you need help with, and where you're not gonna be strong.
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Because that founders admirably, I think, try and be everything, and you really don't want to be.
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Jack and all trades.
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I would say Shaq Khan, I'm every woman.
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Yeah, and you don't have to be, there are other ways to it, and it doesn't mean you're outsourcing the gems, and I think that but you you recognizing that if I'm gonna realise my dream, this is probably the area where and where I need support at least, and then you found something that worked, brilliant.
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It's not I was gonna say it's a shortcut, but I didn't feel like anything like a shortcut because there's been a lot of hard work on top of that.
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But a put apartment is really important, you found which was yeah, incredible.
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100%.
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I think people I I know everyone's got a different route with this, but I think people underestimate sometimes finding either a business that exists that's lost its way or co-manufactor, like there's there's many different ways to kind of and routes to get into this space.
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So for me, I mean it was quite, I think it's a slightly unorthodox way, but um, but yeah, like you're right.
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It it it to me, the fact the product was great and and the fact that they had some uh relationships already developed with um natural distributors and some independents felt like a really cool place to start.
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And I feel really lucky that I got I started there because, like you say, the journey is long and hard, um, regardless of where you start as a challenger in these in this space.
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So thinking about that, how you kind of transformed what it was to what it is now.
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So you're happy with the recipe, happy with the manufacturer relationship, they had some distribution, as you've said.
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What was the first thing you wanted to change first about the product proposition, whatever it might be?
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So basically, we just stripped it all the way back and worked on who was going to be our target audience, which we landed on parents, and then I worked with a lot of mums, um, dads, kids on working out like what was unique.
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And and one thing we found with our suite is that although, well, guess our take is although our suite is better for you in terms of versus everything else that's out there, we didn't want to feel like a better for you suite because in our category, it's all about joy, fun, taste, and excitement, particularly for kids.
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Like you look at what we wanted to do was have the energy and the attitude of a Harry Bow or a Skittle, but the back of pack as the best suite that could be.
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So redesigning suites almost for the modern audience.
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Um, but yeah, we we we so how do we get and I got a fantastic um design agency on board called How and How and gave them this brief.
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I was like, I don't want it to look like, quote, like another vegan sweet brand.
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I want it to feel like these big players that I look up to in the market.
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So that's what we worked on, and then um, yeah, getting basically to a fully fledged kind of like brand world, which is wild things.
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We we were discussing how do we make wild and natural cool.
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It's like this kind of punk logo, and having the Venus fly trap on our pack was like, what is the most badass plant-based thing?
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It's a Venus fly trap, and then this world around it of um insects, all our suites of different creepy crawly insects and fruity flavours.
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So trying to make sure like the brand that as I said, the formulation was fantastic, but the actual positioning was like, how do we add more fun, more excitement, more kind of like distinctiveness in terms of our branding, which is another thing I thought about logging hard on the shelf?
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You want to be particularly in a confectionery category when you're alongside some really big well-known brands and bright packaging, it's like how do we stand out on that shelf?
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And how do we create design that is memorable?
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Because people have point a fraction of a second when they're looking at the supermarket's shelf.
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So, how do you become like they're gonna remember it, even if it's for in our packs, if you see them, they've got this Venus Fisher up on the front.
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People say, Oh, the woman the monster on it.
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I'll take that.
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As long as you remember me, I'll take that.
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So it's sort of like how do you create really distinctive and like standout branding?
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Um, and don't get me wrong, there's been loads we've done since then, but that was sort of the journey from taking on uh veggie bears to launching wild things.
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Um, and then from when we launched in January uh last year, 2025, it was just all about then how do you gain distribution?
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And then once we get that distribution, um, how do we activate it at the point of shelf and you know it's in store marketing or sampling or etc.
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So that's been pretty much the journey ever since.
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Yeah, and I think the proposition and understanding who you are and who you're for is something that's not always really well thought through and could be really easily communicated.
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So I do see a lot of brands and even really successful brands that have a great product, great taste, and they've got some really good USPs, but being able to clearly communicate the job we're doing is very important, but very understated, I think.
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And taking a taste-led approach is vital, but it would have been very easy for you to stay in that lane, which I think was I think was a brave choice and uh the right choice, but it would have been very easy to say no, we're gonna lead with what's not in the product, rather than just say we taste great, and by the way, we're also really good for you in in comparison to what you might have picked up.
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I think those are hard decisions, but the really important ones.
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I think the important things to pull out.
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And I think to be honest, the more and more like the longer we're now 18 months or so, more than in the market.
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Um, this is our second year, so we're now in October, aren't we?
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But second in the market, I have become way more about stripping it back to basics.
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And we as founders and people in the industry are so obsessed with labels and like micro details in our packaging.
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Consumers just don't think like that.
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And like, how do you work out what problem you're solving?
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Which um, I mean, Fiona Fitzpatrick, I did um her mini MBA she does for founders, it was brilliant, and basically made force us to distill in consumer speak.
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So, not any like crazy charts.
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It's just like in consumer, the way the consumers talk and speak is like, what is it about your what are you doing, what are you solving?
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And my version is that we know that parents love the feeling of being able to say yes to their kids eating sweets, so they love that kind of joy of letting kids be kids and have sweets.
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However, here's the however statement, they feel bad about all the crap that's in them.
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So I'm I'm here, and while things is here, for all the parents are out there saying, I wish that there was an option I know my kids would love and they go crazy for, that I can feel good about giving them.
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And getting to that place of like, and then now we know that getting in front of those people in terms of our marketing and our sales, it's like everything is about making it easier for parents to switch to us and and yeah, just like basically stripping it all back to like what is the problem you're actually solving, as opposed to trying to get into the all these details about gluten-free, dairy-free, vegan, and all these kind of routes you can go down.
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It's like take a step back, just basically trying to simplify and be really clear on who your who your real target um consumer is.
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Um, and then being really simple when you message them and repetitive and consistent with how you message to them.
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I I think I I know a lot of a lot of people have been through um Fiona Fitzpatrick's uh mini MBA, I think I think is superb.
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And I think one of the things that comes through strongly for people that have been on it is that purpose, but that ownable purpose that is you couldn't just stick another brand logo on it, also make sense.
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Um I think that's something I see.
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You know, we want to make you know the you think some of the the visions out there of we want to take every everyday food from great food every day.
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It's like, well, that could be any food brand in the world.
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Yeah, so it's one that you can own and nobody else can take off you, um, which is it's something that I see coming through from Fiona Fitzpatrick's work, which is amazing.
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But that's so important to at least get there and say, This is who we are, and this is this is why it's only us that does this thing, I think is really important.
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I think it's I think you're right.
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And that she's also obsessed with like laddering up, laddering up, and it it's it forces you to take a step out of the detail.
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Because I think when you're so close to something, I mean, I live, breathe, eat, think about wild things for 25-8, you know.
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So it's so hard to objectively like review your brand and your positioning and your purpose when you're so in it.
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So taking that step back, simplifying it, and getting really in the consumer's head, as opposed to us FMCG nerds kind of heads in the way we all think.
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It's like that's just not how consumers live their life, particularly in my case, like busy parents, like they're just not giving you that much thought.
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They don't think much about your brands.
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So we we all talk about building brand community, which we are obsessed with, but it's like, what does that look like?
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You know, does that look like I don't know how much are consumers gonna go for brands and like how do we show up in their world and their life in a realistic way?
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But yeah, it's interesting stuff, the whole thing.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And you know, I see people talking about we're gonna make brand fans, like doesn't happen.
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You if you're part of a routine, you're lucky.
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But being a brand fan, somebody's gonna get your logo tattooed on their body, really unlikely.
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Unfortunately, that's not how it works in the real world.
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But yeah, I think we get to.
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I think there's a few brands I might be up for a tattoo.
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Yeah, I always said I'd definitely get a tattoo of wild things.
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I don't know what my stakes are.
00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:31.920
Maybe if I put I I yeah, certain retailers' listings, I'd be quite keen for a tattoo.
00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:36.240
I tried it with uh with with the peanut butter brand around proper nutty.
00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:41.440
I put a post out saying if anybody gets it tattooed on them, they will have free peanut butter for life.
00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:43.759
And a few people say they were gonna do it, it never happened.
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:45.920
But um, yeah, I don't know if that was very responsible of me.
00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:52.079
I also think if my if my shock were a parent and my consumer a kid, I think I might be barking up the wrong tree.
00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:57.119
Encouraging children to get tattoos is not exactly the best PR story, but it would be good engagement reaching.
00:18:57.200 --> 00:18:57.519
It'd be cool.
00:18:57.599 --> 00:18:59.519
Yeah, it'd be validation for you, it'd be cool.
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:11.359
Um so again, something that you've um that I read about that you've done, um, which I thought I thought was as somebody who loves being disruptive, I thought was I thought was really cool.
00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:16.400
So I read that you've hand delivered a manifesto letter to Harry Bow's office.
00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:18.720
Um tell me about the thinking behind it.
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:20.160
I I I love that.
00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:22.720
So pick the kind of picking a fight in public.
00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:25.039
I'm a big fan, but yeah, tell me about it.
00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:27.039
Well, I I want to defend this a bit.
00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:33.680
So when I first set out, we just thought it was a brand, like you say, I did I did get the train up to um I can't remember the name of the place there from the street.
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:34.480
Pontefranc.
00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:36.079
Pontifrac, yeah.
00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:47.599
I went up there with a letter, with a kind of call to action to say, look, we've might remove palm oil, gelatin, additives, e-number, all the random crap that doesn't need spin sweets, we've removed and they taste great.
00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:48.720
Why don't you do the same?
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:54.480
So I was sort of bright-eyed, bushy-tailed founder, like going me versus the world.
00:19:54.640 --> 00:20:02.000
And to be honest, again, it was, it was, it got me in a lot of kind of like buzz at the time in our own space when it happened.
00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:06.799
But since then, I mean, that is now coming up, it'll be coming up two years ago.
00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:08.319
We've massively pivoted.
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:19.279
So I I do my personal purpose, you know, a big part of it is making a positive shift in food and giving kids options that aren't better and the, you know, so that is personally important to me.
00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:33.200
However, what I see now in terms of our columns and what we do in terms of our stunts is instead of focusing on picking, picking at other people for having, we used to call it junk line, less, less junk, more punk with one of our strap lines, but we don't use anymore.
00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:37.920
Because it's it's a bit negative going at going at what's wrong with others.
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:44.559
So instead, now we're like trying to be more of a positive vibe, because I hate we don't want to be standing for judgy parents either.
00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:49.680
Of like, if you want to give your kids Harry Bow, give them a Harry Bow if it's you know, it's a party and there's a world where you want it, have it.
00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:55.119
But we want to stand for kind of a positive, fun, no compromise switch.
00:20:55.279 --> 00:21:06.400
So, really instead of focusing on the fun and the wild and like our kind of like just basically like more about the good vibes and the taste, our taste being positive than picking other people's negatives.
00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:18.960
But I still think that spirit of being disruptive and being wacky, and I always love like there's so much stuff that we can do as a brand that no one really in our category can because they either can't own it the way we can or because they legislatively like can't with HVSS.
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:20.240
We we're a small brand.
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:26.880
So there are literally rules on digital marketing that uh big HSS uh kind of sweets and chocolate can't do that we can.
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:29.200
So like gifting and building community that way.
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:33.599
But yeah, me delivering the note to Harry, but I never got a reply, interestingly.
00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:40.000
Um, but I actually like I I I'm more about um, you know, doing us and staying in our lane.
00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:42.160
I don't need to I don't need to talk about us versus others.
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:47.599
I'm like, let's be wild things and let's show people what that can mean and what that can look and feel and taste like.
00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:48.880
Love it.
00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:51.839
I uh I get where you're coming from, I get the pivot.
00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:54.960
I'm still uh I I love the rebellion still.
00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:56.960
Um I'm I'm a fan of the rebellion.
00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:02.000
So one thing I think that uh Um that you're doing that's it's amazing.
00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:08.799
So you've built wild things with an all-female team, and you're very vocal about the motherhood penalty and flexible working.
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:10.079
Tell me a bit about that.
00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:10.880
Why have you done it?
00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:12.000
How does that work in practice?
00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:14.720
And what does it mean for you and your brand?
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:20.400
Well, it's actually an interesting time because we I have we've always had it, wasn't deliberate.
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:22.640
I obviously we hire based on merit.
00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:24.480
Can I just be very overt about that?
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:31.119
But it ended up that we always had um different women and half the team were mums with kids, so they are therefore demographic.
00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:39.359
We actually had our first guy join the team this year, James, to the out-of-home business, who is expected to be a dad very soon in the next couple of months.
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:42.319
So going through the paternity process with him has also been interesting.
00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:49.440
But to answer the question about motherhood penalty, yes, this has always, I think, been a huge, almost subconscious driver of mine.
00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:57.200
Like I love my job, I love this industry, I always have this vision of, you know, working as long as I can.
00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:07.759
Um, but I also would love to at some point have a family and then see my family and have that kind of work-life balance of being able to like pick my kids up from school or, you know, basically having flexibility.
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:11.680
And I, the motherhood kind of, if you don't know much about it, I mean, give it a quick Google.
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:17.680
But it's basically the really disproportionate kind of disadvantage that mothers have in the workplace.
00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:58.960
So beyond the gender pay gap, which is talking kind of addressing fair pay and equal pay for men versus women with different roles, it's actually a kind of facet of the gender pay gap, which is you notice that once people have children, there's a disproportionate expectation on the mum to be the sole carer, whether that means taking really big like stints of leave, or companies not making it, in my case, is what we try to address is like companies not making it very easy for mums to come back because they're expecting you to come back on a 40-hour working week, Monday to Friday, which is just an archaic blueprint that was made back in the kind of day when families could afford to have someone for free, you know, uh at home all the time.
00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:05.759
So it's just um it's something I think almost like I say, like it wasn't a conscious thing I set out to do.
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:11.519
But like the first hire that I made was Abby, who's still with the business, who does her operations, and she's got three children.
00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:16.000
She works fully from home, she works around her, basically, she needs to pick up the kids and drop the kids off.
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:16.640
That's it.
00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:23.759
And then outside of that, she she needs to pick up an email on a Sunday or after the kids go to bed or whatever, she does it.
00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:30.319
But we work on a major culture of trust, and that is, I think, what it's all about, honestly.
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:40.079
Even with uh with James coming in, it's been a really interesting one having James um and us having a conversation about Pat leave because I'm always very vocal about the motherhood penalty.
00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:46.079
But then isn't the other isn't the answer to the motherhood penalty also giving men more leave and letting men step up and hope?
00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:57.039
So it's been a really interesting and challenging one, if I'm honest, with a small business with a team of five all together, working out how that looks and like how do we make, I mean, he's a top salesperson.
00:24:57.279 --> 00:24:58.720
So how how do we navigate that?
00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:02.640
And I think the way we have navigated it is all about flexibility and trust.
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:04.640
He is an adult, we're all adults.
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:10.799
Like we I think you work better when you when you feel uh, I guess, valued and trusted.
00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:18.079
So we're working about how we can return to work in a flexible way and how we can take enough Pat leave to be able to spend time with him and his wife and his new baby.
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:30.880
So I think, yeah, the answer to me, I think challenges can do so much in this space, but how do we create more flexibility in the workplace that allows for modern parents to navigate careers and families?
00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:35.599
I mean, you'd you'd hope on the back of COVID, with with all of us working at home and proving it can be done.
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:37.200
Don't get me wrong, it was a nightmare.
00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:42.720
I think, particularly with people with kids, it was even more of a nightmare, but it proved that it could be done at um at home.
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:52.319
I find it quite sad to see how many of the big corporates have reverted right back to in the office working, because I think it it it really affects so many, particularly mums.
00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:56.480
But yeah, it's a bit, it's a it's it's it's quite a big thing here.
00:25:56.559 --> 00:26:00.640
But mostly we just build a culture that's based around trust and flexibility.
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:05.599
Um, and that doesn't need to come at the expense of our ambitions and our delivery and our output.
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:09.039
Um, but yeah, it's something I feel really proud of, honestly.
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:46.000
And I think for we we talked about kind of the superpower of being a a challenger before, and I think this is another one being something that what you're doing is incredible, but having the ability to stand up for and be the change that you want to see in the industry and we're doing it, and we're actually a small team anyway, so it maybe it affects us disproportionately to have yeah, so beware making the change because we believe it's the right thing to do, and the superpower you have is well, I'll make that change and I'll show it's better and I'll show us another way, and challenge the big corporates that are dragging people back into offices because they've paid so much for them and want to justify the ROI.
00:26:46.160 --> 00:27:00.559
Yeah, yeah, I think it's I think A that what you're doing is brilliant, but B kind of the the lesson being use the platform and use your superpower to make the changes you want to see, whether it's around Mat Leave and or anything.
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:03.680
So there's there's a whole wrath of things to put that across, I guess.
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:04.400
100%.
00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:16.319
And like in my view, like I people I know very close to me have been maybe returned on on coming back off Mat Leave, or have begged their officers, please can I do three days a week or four days a week, and they'll basically say they can't do it.
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:19.359
I just think it's it's utter, it's utter baloney.
00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:25.279
And actually, a lot of most of my friends on the paternity side of things, having two weeks of Pat Leave is pretty barbaric.
00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:34.559
I mean, if you if you think that most births might take two or three days, dad, dad is going back and leaving mum on their own all day with this tiny newborn after after one or two weeks.
00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:36.799
It's just like, yeah, well, you you're right.
00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:43.599
That is that is one of the most incredible things about having your own business, is you can actually just build that culture of what you what you think.
00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:45.039
I mean, to me, that is normal.
00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:48.640
Just treat people like adults and trust them and work flexibly.
00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:50.079
We love being in the office together.
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:58.559
We get so much from it when we are, but we also work just sufficiently from our homes, the other let's three, say three days a week versus the two days that we're in.
00:27:58.640 --> 00:28:01.039
So anyway, it's all part of the fun.
00:28:01.119 --> 00:28:05.759
But yeah, I think I think yeah, uh, hopefully you can only hope it's going to get better and better.
00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:11.839
And there's some there's some good kind of updates recently in the news about leave and looking more broadly at leave.
00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:15.119
Um, but um, yeah, the only way is that I'll put it that way.
00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:17.279
I think it's I think it's brilliant.
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:23.359
Yeah, and enacting the change that you want to see, the things you're passionate about, the things you think are broken, that's what a challenge is about.
00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:28.799
You've you've got your products, you've got your customer, but there's other ways you can impact things as well, uh, which I think is brilliant.
00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:34.960
So when you you're obviously part of a big family community, it's a really great community, particularly in food and drink.
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:41.119
But in your opinion, what's the most overrated things founders obsess over?
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:45.680
And maybe on the flip of that, the most underrated things they ignore.
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:48.799
Oh, that's such a good question.
00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:50.000
I don't know.
00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:56.160
I think I think like about things that I obsessed over as a founder that I feel like I need to stop obsessing over as much.
00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:05.680
Like I I guess personally, I I have obsessed over pace and like been very impatient for growth and listings.
00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:11.359
And actually, I'm I'm now trying to pivot and be like thinking about long-term sustainable.
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:15.759
So not just chasing growth and chasing anything, it's thinking really long term.
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:21.039
And what's helped me in that um is I hate comparison culture.
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:28.319
The problem I love LinkedIn is a great platform to be able to get good reach and be able to share your story, which I benefit from and I enjoy.
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:29.519
But it's hard not to compare.
00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:34.799
And like you, I think we've spoken before, like people only put the good stuff out on Instagram and LinkedIn, don't they?
00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:35.759
Which is great.
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:39.920
But the reality is like running your own business, it's really tough.
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:42.319
Getting a challenger off the ground is really tough.
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:53.039
So I think if you can't compare, so obsessing over what other people are doing, what other people's journey looks like is completely uh pointless, a waste of energy.
00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:58.799
Um, and I think working out it's a marathon, not a sprint, we're building brands that are gonna go the distance.
00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:08.240
I think in that same kind of vein, distribution, people obsess about kind of so I can put swearing, but swinging their dick about what distribution they've got and certain things.
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:10.640
Actually, rate of sale is much more exciting.
00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:12.160
What's your rate of sale doing?
00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:13.519
What's your customer repeat rate?
00:30:13.599 --> 00:30:21.599
Things like that, like obsessing over metrics like that are a much better use of your time than shouting about you know what your distribution looks like.
00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:25.920
Um just a general obsession that I'm still grappling with is TikTok.
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:31.440
I think people just obsess the TikTok shop and people say to me, Oh, you've got to do TikTok, TikTok presenting.
00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:35.359
Like, I'm like, just don't talk about the today with Lorna, who runs our social community.
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:40.480
I'm like, I just don't think our customer, busy parents, are like sat on the TikTok shop looking for deals.
00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:45.839
Certain brands, certain categories, I will eat my words, but I don't know.
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:52.799
There's certain like I think you have to be really careful as a founder of shiny things that promise to be overnight sensation.
00:30:53.279 --> 00:31:09.920
And that's not about being I don't you've got to be agile and you've got to be open, and I've really got to embrace things like AI and how we can do better, but equally trying not to get obsessed with the new shiny thing or someone promising you if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:12.240
Um see that a lot.
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:17.920
And underrated thing that's ignored, or was this your um well?
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:20.240
I think underrated is just all the stuff we spoke about.
00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:25.920
The stuff I'm trying to do better, it's like taste, rate of sale, definitely metrics of rate for sale and repeat.
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:34.559
Um, I'm much more excited by and less now and less obsessed with like growth, growth distribution, because that will come and when it comes, we'll be ready for it.
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:37.279
Um, in terms of building a brand awareness and brand love.
00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:39.839
I'd say things that are underrated is kind of what we spoke about.
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:48.640
That when you're when you are a fountain and you're so obsessed with your product, all these niche things and all these claims, and I'm talking like gluten-free, plant-based, da-da-da-da.
00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:53.200
Like, I mean, now there's a lot of stuff on keto or fiber, whatever, you just forget taste.
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:57.200
Like underrated things people ignore is like this is an ice-tasting product.
00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:00.640
Like, like, and I I need to do more of talking about that.
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:06.480
Like, okay, cool, our sweets are natural health sugar, but they're just it's just a really fruity taste of sweet, just eat it, it's yummy.
00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:09.119
I think that's an underrated piece I'm trying to get better at.
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:26.079
And then I also think, and this is a really, this is a really um, I should not negative thing to talk about, but just your cost of goods, your shelf life, getting, getting just like the kind of fundamentals in this game are taste good and be a good price on shelf, which I think is really hard.
00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:34.640
Most of us challenges are all trying to strip out the stuff that helps your shelf life and helps your cods, which is basically not putting all the crap in it that the big boys uh do.
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:41.279
But I think we've done a bit of a pivot of really looking at our pricing strategy and making sure we're as affordable as possible.
00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:51.599
I mean, we recently launched um our first ever not organic range, still just as tasty, still half a short, still look natural, but introducing a little bit more competitively priced and meeting consumers where they're at.
00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:54.319
I think it's it's unsexy, let's put it that way.
00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:56.240
But I do think it's an underrated thing people ignore.
00:32:56.319 --> 00:32:59.680
It's like, how do you get your cogs to be as competitive as possible on shelf?
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:01.680
Because we're all up against it in our own categories.
00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:03.200
They're all, they've all got behemoths.
00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:06.720
Mine's paribow, but there's there's plenty out there on the supermarket shelves.
00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:08.319
It's dominated by very few names.
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:10.000
So you're really going up against it.
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:17.440
Going in with a better proposition of, as I say, taste good, but also the price as well as it can be, is a I think it's an underrated thing people don't think about.
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:22.319
And it's great to do that also early work before you start even getting to the point of going to market.
00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:39.680
But like work out with your manufacturer, whether it's through your you know, logistics, packaging, anything with the formulation, if there's something clever you can do that won't impact the brand in terms of you know being aligned to your USPs and delivering on taste, etc., what can you do to kind of strip out costs?
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:41.599
Because it's only going to help you down the line.
00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:48.240
Um, but yeah, not so sexy advice, but see how you can get scrutinize your cost of goods.
00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:56.079
But I think in that there's a bit of a misnomer that if you're a challenger, you should also be fucking premium.
00:33:56.319 --> 00:34:06.079
You maybe are premium, and maybe one of your jobs for the category for the buyer for the shopper is to add value, maybe, or maybe just disrupting sat next to a price.
00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:13.119
So it's a misconception that you have to be more expensive because you're new, but you don't have to be.
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:14.320
So no, yeah.
00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:16.960
Can you work harder on the cogs as you said?
00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:25.760
Is that is that a stone you've not unturned because it is a bit unsexy, but what could it do if you could drop your RRP by 50 pence and increase your volume or lap chassis?
00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:26.320
100%.
00:34:26.559 --> 00:34:31.519
And and it's even looking at things like I mean, the cost of petrol and logistics now is is really expensive.
00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:34.719
So getting in the detail, like what kind of outers are you using?
00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:37.280
What SRPs, is there something smart you'd be doing?
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:41.039
What what's the root of your stock basically to customers?
00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:42.960
Could you be increasing your MOQs?
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:47.760
It this stuff actually really does make a difference with how you can um compete.
00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:55.679
And I think, yeah, a founder said to me, Well, look, you we do all this, we do a lot of us do lots of stuff on sampling, give away free samples and activation.
00:34:55.920 --> 00:35:03.920
They said to me, the best way of sampling is just getting as cheap as you can on the shelf or getting as good a competitive promotional strategy on the shelf because then people are more likely to pick you up.
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:08.800
I'm like, Fools about it like that, instead of obsessing about these RRPs and you know protecting them.
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:19.599
I'm like, try just see what you can do to be clever at your cogs to enable you to have as most kind of like the best trading strategy on that shelf as possible to give you give you your best chance.
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:21.039
It's very important.
00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:23.519
So, final question then.
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:30.320
So said we're part of a great founder community, we we like to um you all like to share ideas and chat to each other.
00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:38.000
Somebody comes to you asking for advice and says, I've got a great product, but there's no momentum.
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:41.119
Where are you telling that person to start to look?
00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:43.679
Oh god, that's a biggie.
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:44.800
Also, I love that.
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:47.679
There's nothing better to talk about that, I think, than business and ideas.
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:51.119
So I think that's what's so lovely about this community is we do all help each other out.
00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:52.800
In terms of like, don't you know where to start?
00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:54.559
I think they are on ground zero.
00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:55.840
Is that what you're saying here?
00:35:56.159 --> 00:36:02.320
Yeah, they know they've got a good product, so it's not, it tastes great, it does what it says it's gonna do, but they're just not getting the momentum.
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:03.840
So it's where else do you look?
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:06.159
Once you've got that foundation, where do you go?
00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:08.079
Well, I think there's a few things here.
00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:22.159
I would want to make sure that I'd done enough consumer research and got enough real consumer feedback about let's say the product's great, maybe it's packaging, like what you can even hover round shelves and ask people, hey, I noticed you didn't pick that up.
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:23.039
Why didn't you pick that up?
00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:36.480
And do weird things like that and take it to many people that will talk to you about giving their real feedback if they're not picked, if there's, for example, the rate of sales slow, um, how you could maybe refine your messaging, your your packaging, if it's not resonating, why is that?
00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:38.159
I think that would be a good place to go.
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:45.920
And then I also find, I mean, again, it's not that uh revolutionary, but for us, Amazon was such a good place.
00:36:46.000 --> 00:37:02.000
It's not the most profitable channel, but the fact that it's accessible on day one and you have all this traffic and all these keyword search terms of people, what they're actually after, if you can make it at least net neutral in terms of profitability or like you make small profits on it, you can get some really good scale there.
00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:07.199
And I love what I love Amazon for is I feel like it's a really good discovery and trial um driver.
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:09.599
R suite to be doing kind of party packs.
00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:16.559
And I love this idea of something what just one person needs to kind of um find us and then give us to 20 kids at a party and kind of spread that word.
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:36.159
So I'd say really get to understand if it's if you're feeling like you're hitting a wall in terms of your rate of sale, I'd really try and understand through as much consumer feedback, which you can do for free, get as many people talk to you, to talk to you as unbiasedly and as raw and as open as they can about uh, you know, maybe you need some insights on why they're not picking up on the shelf.
00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:44.960
Um, and then if it if you think that you've refined the packaging, you want to start, I'd say Amazon is a good place to start just getting some uh schools or the doors, you know, getting some sales in.
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:48.000
And whilst you do that, take that next step.
00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:57.440
It for us was always grocery retail, but going after pitching to all these different schemes that I mean, a lot of these retailers now and distributors have fantastic challenger brand schemes.
00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:03.599
The first one for us was the Acadia Roots program that backed us and got us on a cardo, which has been brilliant, um, brilliant for us.
00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:07.679
But Whole Foods Market do pitches, I think it's every quarter or every half year.
00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:12.000
And then between all, I think co-op were kind of reassessing what they do with their April programme.
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:16.480
They they we were on their last cohort, which has been amazing learning for us and the brand getting out there.
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:24.480
But co-op, you know, Tesco's, Sainsbury's, Waitrose all have new brand programs, as well as actually BidFoods open doors, and I think Brakes have got one now.
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:31.920
So there's places you can kind of start knocking if you want to get that first almost like foot in the door and first um chance for your brand.
00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:38.239
But yeah, just reach out to people in this community because there's no there's no better community for it that people all help each other out.
00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:40.320
Yeah, yeah, I can definitely attest to that.
00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:42.800
And uh I think that's really good, really solid advice.
00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:47.280
Um, so yeah, but I mean before we completely wrap up, what's what's coming up?
00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:48.239
It's October.
00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:49.039
What's coming up?
00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:51.920
It's Halloween, baby.
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:55.519
We we Halloween is like our Super Bowl.
00:38:55.599 --> 00:39:01.599
Like it is the one time of the year that people are thinking about sweets and our particularly our community of parents.
00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:06.639
So we've got like the most jammed calendar ever in October.
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:14.639
One thing, well, I guess a good plug is anyone that shops on a cardo, quick, we're doing something quite batch shit crazy on a cardo.
00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:26.960
Anyone who buys any Wild Things product across this spooky season, they can go on our website, just show us their PDF receipt, and then we will send them a bundle of sweets, the minimum of like 20, 20 or so packs of sweets for Halloween.
00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:35.360
Because I want that my kind of movement feeling of people spreading the word and uh yeah, and sharing our sweets with people in their community.
00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:47.119
So quickly, I mean, our overarching campaign in October is all about no tricks, just treats, which is obviously a nod to our label and what we're about, but also um we're trying to spread that as much as we can.
00:39:47.199 --> 00:39:52.719
And we've got we well, we're launching with Smiths, WH Smiths in airports and train stations this month.
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:55.360
We're in 91 um stores with them.
00:39:55.519 --> 00:40:02.719
As of now, we're just rolling into, I guess when this when this pod goes out, we would have just rolled into Asla Express stores, 500 of them.
00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:06.960
Um, we're in clip strip with them for Q4 as a bit of a trial, which would be awesome.
00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:12.079
Um, as well as having our second window outside Whole Foods, which is always the most cool thing to see.
00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:14.079
No tricks, just streets and a big banner.
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:17.760
And we've got some kind of really fun in-store stuff happening with Whole Foods Market.
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:19.039
So it's great.
00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:22.559
And then, yeah, literally, me and the team are doing, I can't even remember I've lost track.
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:24.960
I think we're doing five days of mass sampling in in London.
00:40:25.039 --> 00:40:38.880
And then with everyone active, we're doing some community samplings of some of our other customers, just getting there, bringing in some fun games and trying to kind of do whether it's mass scale events or more community events, just getting more suites in people's hands and more sweets in people's mouths.
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:40.320
Um, so yeah, check us out.
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:43.920
Or if you can't do any of that stuff, get our trick or treat box on Amazon.
00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:45.360
You won't regret it.
00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:47.840
Busy, busy all Noctober.
00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:51.039
But yeah, that sounds, I mean, and some new listings amongst that as well.
00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:52.320
That's uh that's pretty incredible.
00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:52.960
Keep you busy.
00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:53.840
So exciting.
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:55.679
Um, we'll keep us busy, that's for sure.
00:40:55.840 --> 00:40:56.880
No rest for the wicked.
00:40:57.039 --> 00:40:59.360
Yeah, but um, but thank thank you so much for your time.
00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:01.199
That's I've I've learned a shitload.
00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:02.639
Um, it's been really, really good.
00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:08.559
Thank you so much for giving the time and some real truths from from your journey you've had so far.
00:41:08.719 --> 00:41:11.440
Um, as Fliss said, make sure you check them out.
00:41:11.599 --> 00:41:16.079
Accado, Amazon, WH Smith, Sasda Express, all the places you've mentioned.
00:41:16.159 --> 00:41:19.599
Um, and yeah, we'll uh thank you so very much.
00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:20.639
Really appreciate your time.
00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:22.079
Thanks, I mean you legend.
00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:23.039
Thanks for having me, me.
00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:28.400
Thanks for listening to Making Mighty, the Food and Drink Challenger Growth Podcast.
00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:38.800
If your brand feels like it's hit a ceiling and you're not sure what to fix next, drop me an email at makingmighty at gmail.com and ask me about the Making Mighty M O T.
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:45.519
You're gonna spend around 30 minutes on it, and within a week, you'll have a clear, practical plan to get your brand moving again.
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:49.119
I'll reply to you personally, and I'll see you next time.
00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:03.520
Good food brands don't usually get stuck because of the product.
00:00:03.600 --> 00:00:07.839
They get stuck somewhere between a great idea and commercial growth.
00:00:08.080 --> 00:00:12.320
Welcome to Making Mighty, the Challenger Food and Drink Growth Podcast.
00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:19.760
I'm Simon Greenwood Haig, and in season two, we're unpacking exactly how good food and drink brands get unstuck.
00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:29.440
Every episode is packed with practical advice, honest conversations, and straightforward commercial thinking to help challenger brands grow without the corporate waffle.
00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:30.879
Let's get into it.
00:00:31.359 --> 00:00:35.679
So today I've got the pleasure of being joined by Flis Newland from Wild Things.
00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:43.119
I'm really excited to have her on to talk about building a brand in what is a really busy and competitive space.
00:00:43.280 --> 00:00:45.439
So thank you so much for joining us.
00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:53.200
Before we get into some of the questions in the episode, could you just give listeners a quick overview of who you are, your business, and what you do, please?
00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:54.079
Absolutely.
00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:55.679
Thank you so much for having me on.
00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:58.880
So yeah, so I'm Fliss, I'm the founder of Wild Things Sweets.
00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:04.560
We make natural fruity gummy sweets with half the sugar of the average sweetie.
00:01:05.040 --> 00:01:10.719
Our mission is, I guess, making sweets that grownups feel really good about and kids go wild for.
00:01:10.879 --> 00:01:13.200
So yeah, I guess we'll get more into it.
00:01:13.359 --> 00:01:20.239
But I left a big corporate company, Mondeleys, uh big that owns Cadbury's Mayor's Bassett to set up my own challenge brand.
00:01:20.319 --> 00:01:22.239
So I've kind of seen both sides of the coin.
00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:23.599
Um, but yeah.
00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:24.480
Amazing.
00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:26.000
Yeah, incredible experience.
00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:33.599
I mean, I've had a similar journey myself, so it's yeah, always interesting to hear what bits you've rejected and accepted from from that world as well.
00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:44.640
But um if you take us back to when Wild Things first felt properly stuck, what what what made you feel stuck and what did you do about it?
00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:47.280
In terms of stuck, what do you mean?
00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:54.400
So a point in time where you didn't know what direction to go, or you were having a challenge you didn't know how to get through it.
00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:55.519
Any of those sort of things.
00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:57.359
Simon, that's like everyday, isn't it?
00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:06.959
I mean, and we were a startup, but no, so well, an early example of this is when I took on the business, it wasn't the brand wasn't called Wild Things.
00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:11.280
The brand was a fantastic vegan sweetie brand called Veggie Bears.
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It had a very specific kind of vegan uh positioning.
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I'm a vegan, we're a very, very small um proportion of society.
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So I was like, how do we give this more mainstream appeal?
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Because the sweets tasted amazing and they happened to be, as I've said, half the sugar and natural.
00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:38.800
So just I guess it's that sort of a stuck piece, but there was a lot of thinking that had to go into how are we going to brand this product, how are we gonna name this product, who are we targeting this product for?
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And I had a gut feeling that parents, um, parents with kind of kids, we say between four and 12, like pre-teen, post-baby, would care about it.
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But that took a lot of kind of consumer research and um the whole process getting to the design and the brand positioning and um how we would take this essentially from like a really niche proposition to a credible mainstream brand was just hard in itself and took a lot of thinking.
00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:08.639
But yeah, I mean, stuck.
00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:11.439
I mean, we have literally every day is a school day.
00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:13.120
I'm learning every minute every week.
00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:26.639
And I actually think one of my things I have to get over as a founder is not kicking myself about not doing things sooner, but just rolling with the punches and pivoting and trying to embrace that pivoting is just a reality of being in a challenger brand.
00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:29.680
I think that's what I've been hard, you you know, hard with.
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But um, yeah, I think we're we're stuck every week, but we're always kind of like overcoming and looking at different ways to tackle stuff.
00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:52.800
I think it really gives people to hear that expect to get stuck, but I think the expect to pivot is really important because I see uh I speak to loads of people and I see a variety of reactions to no, actually, we should be really firm and focused and obsessed with a few things and not deviate from that path.
00:03:52.879 --> 00:03:54.479
And there's merit to that.
00:03:54.719 --> 00:04:01.919
But I think if you I think the majority of people, if you said you're 10 years into business, have you built the business you expected to 10 years ago?
00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:05.360
The answer is probably now it's quite different in a number of different ways.
00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:26.240
So I think that expectancy that you're going to have to pivot, you're gonna get stuck, you're gonna need to pivot, be prepared to do that, and don't don't overinvest in something when you might need to pivot, I guess, as well, is probably quite doing and doing more of that learnings like do the learnings when it's lowest stakes, like tweaking on your packaging or tweaking on your messaging.
00:04:26.319 --> 00:04:27.680
And I wish I'd done even more of that.
00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:39.600
I feel like we did I did a lot of consumer research, but I mean, just recently we've just basically launched some new um products and new flavours that are now a slightly different pricing, different packaging design.
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It's still the same North Star.
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Like I still believe in terms of our USBs about being half the sugar and natural, our target demographic is families with kids.
00:04:48.720 --> 00:05:01.040
But there's been so much below below that that we've pivoted and like our market go-to-market strategy and you know what retailers are going after, our marketing spend, like all of that stuff, the let's be honest, infinite number of decisions.
00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:06.560
What you do with this brand, I think I'm coming more and more comfortable with that.
00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:16.639
We need to make sure we're like basically looking at what's worked well and do more of it and what hasn't worked, and either refine, ditch, um, yeah, or do do things better.
00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:24.000
So that ongoing process of kind of continuous improvement is something you just have to embrace and you have to get over it, and you can't kick yourself for your mistakes.
00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:28.800
Because I say to my team, like, if we're not making mistakes, then we're not swinging big enough, we're not taking enough risks.
00:05:28.959 --> 00:05:39.199
So getting over that fear of failure, like actually fail it as your friend, and just move on it, quick move off, move on from it all quickly, as quickly as you can, and as cheaply as you can.
00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:46.079
Yeah, I like that phrase used that take the learnings when the lower stakes, it's yeah, that's really important.
00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:52.000
And I think some of the learnings and the test and the failing fast, testing and learning, all those phrases are really important.
00:05:52.560 --> 00:06:03.519
But you can you have as a challenger, one of the strengths you have and a startup scale up brand is you can afford to make these leaps and they are lower stakes.
00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:08.480
Once you start becoming a 10, 15, 50 million pound business, the stakes are much higher.
00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:12.480
So learn while you have the right to and use that as your superpower.
00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:13.600
Yeah, I like that a lot.
00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:14.959
So true.
00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:27.360
So you mentioned in your intro though, so you started life and Mondeley's, or your last role was Mondley's working on brands like Cadbury Maynards, and then you took over a small vegan sweets business.
00:06:27.680 --> 00:06:34.240
What did you see in it initially that made it be the thing you want to leave the big corporate life for?
00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:40.000
I I saw potential in a really good product, which I can't claim.
00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:43.680
Like the formulation, the taste of these sweets, I was like, they taste brilliant.
00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:46.240
Like that, that has never been my experience.
00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:50.000
And I actually think that is the hard bit in terms of product development, manufacturing, ops.
00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:54.240
Like it my time at Londonese was very commercial marketing sales.
00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:57.839
So I had always dreamed of setting up my own thing.
00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:05.439
I'd always yearned to do something that was more aligned with my purpose and aligned to my values, but this um opportunity essentially kind of fell on my lap.
00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:07.120
I heard about it through a friend of a friend.
00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:10.639
Um, oh, this, you know, this sweetie business is looking for a new home.
00:07:10.959 --> 00:07:17.519
And I feel like it found me a little bit, but to answer your question, what struck me as really exciting was the actual product taste.
00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:27.920
I was like, that to be a better for you and to be so significantly nutritionally better than what's out there and natural, but without tasting rubbish, tastes fantastic.
00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:29.600
I was like, this is a bit of a gem.
00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:31.600
So and I and I do think that's the hard bit.
00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:33.920
And I think there's people, the bit that people sometimes forget about.
00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:47.439
We do there's a lot of brands out there nowadays that are very functional, they can solve this and do that, give you this, but just a really great tasting product like can like I feel like the the the the rest of it um should become a lot easier if you've got that to start with.
00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:53.600
Yeah, yeah, and you have to have you have to be confident to do that, and confident that you are great tasting, which you are by the way.
00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:54.959
I've tried the product, it's amazing.
00:07:55.040 --> 00:07:58.879
Um but you're right, it's it's not always a given.
00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:08.959
There might be some perfectly marketed, perfect proposition products that just don't slap when it was food and drink, it needs to taste amazing.
00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:13.759
Like that's the first that's the first barrier to to purchase or repurchase.
00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:21.920
Um I think that's and actually and actually the other thing in my book was that they had a fantastic manufacturer set up that were able to scale.
00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:31.199
So again, it's something can taste fantastic in your kitchen, but we both know like you need it to be tried, tested, literally, and and having trust.
00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:48.240
I mean, we're selling food, the stakes are quite high in terms of like allergens, we're allergic-free brands, like there's stuff there, like as I say, it's outside of my wheelhouse and my depth, but having a fantastic production kind of partner with a great recipe that you know can deliver taste, texture, good shelf life.
00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:51.440
It's like to me, these are the foundations that we build these brands on.
00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:57.679
Like you can have the best concept and idea in the world, but if it doesn't, like I say, get outside your kitchen, then it's kind of like so what?
00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:05.039
So I felt so excited because I'm like, wait, these are the this is the hard stuff that the recipe's nailed and it can be produced and it can be scaled.
00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:05.840
Okay, cool.
00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:10.399
This is where where the you can do you can do all the exciting marketing and sales bits on top.
00:09:10.480 --> 00:09:15.519
So yeah, great days and product, but a good facility that can produce it at scale for you.
00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:19.600
Yeah, and it's such a common place where people fall down, I think, as well.
00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:28.960
But I guess in that, there's probably a lesson around as a founder, knowing what your strengths are, what you're good at, what you need help with, and where you're not gonna be strong.
00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:35.039
Because that founders admirably, I think, try and be everything, and you really don't want to be.
00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:36.000
Jack and all trades.
00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:38.720
I would say Shaq Khan, I'm every woman.
00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:55.600
Yeah, and you don't have to be, there are other ways to it, and it doesn't mean you're outsourcing the gems, and I think that but you you recognizing that if I'm gonna realise my dream, this is probably the area where and where I need support at least, and then you found something that worked, brilliant.
00:09:55.679 --> 00:10:00.639
It's not I was gonna say it's a shortcut, but I didn't feel like anything like a shortcut because there's been a lot of hard work on top of that.
00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:05.200
But a put apartment is really important, you found which was yeah, incredible.
00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:05.919
100%.
00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:19.440
I think people I I know everyone's got a different route with this, but I think people underestimate sometimes finding either a business that exists that's lost its way or co-manufactor, like there's there's many different ways to kind of and routes to get into this space.
00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:24.559
So for me, I mean it was quite, I think it's a slightly unorthodox way, but um, but yeah, like you're right.
00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:34.639
It it it to me, the fact the product was great and and the fact that they had some uh relationships already developed with um natural distributors and some independents felt like a really cool place to start.
00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:42.559
And I feel really lucky that I got I started there because, like you say, the journey is long and hard, um, regardless of where you start as a challenger in these in this space.
00:10:42.879 --> 00:10:48.240
So thinking about that, how you kind of transformed what it was to what it is now.
00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:54.240
So you're happy with the recipe, happy with the manufacturer relationship, they had some distribution, as you've said.
00:10:54.559 --> 00:11:01.679
What was the first thing you wanted to change first about the product proposition, whatever it might be?
00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:14.879
So basically, we just stripped it all the way back and worked on who was going to be our target audience, which we landed on parents, and then I worked with a lot of mums, um, dads, kids on working out like what was unique.
00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:34.000
And and one thing we found with our suite is that although, well, guess our take is although our suite is better for you in terms of versus everything else that's out there, we didn't want to feel like a better for you suite because in our category, it's all about joy, fun, taste, and excitement, particularly for kids.
00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:43.200
Like you look at what we wanted to do was have the energy and the attitude of a Harry Bow or a Skittle, but the back of pack as the best suite that could be.
00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:46.960
So redesigning suites almost for the modern audience.
00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:54.080
Um, but yeah, we we we so how do we get and I got a fantastic um design agency on board called How and How and gave them this brief.
00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:57.919
I was like, I don't want it to look like, quote, like another vegan sweet brand.
00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:02.000
I want it to feel like these big players that I look up to in the market.
00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:09.840
So that's what we worked on, and then um, yeah, getting basically to a fully fledged kind of like brand world, which is wild things.
00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:13.440
We we were discussing how do we make wild and natural cool.
00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:19.919
It's like this kind of punk logo, and having the Venus fly trap on our pack was like, what is the most badass plant-based thing?
00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:26.720
It's a Venus fly trap, and then this world around it of um insects, all our suites of different creepy crawly insects and fruity flavours.
00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:42.480
So trying to make sure like the brand that as I said, the formulation was fantastic, but the actual positioning was like, how do we add more fun, more excitement, more kind of like distinctiveness in terms of our branding, which is another thing I thought about logging hard on the shelf?
00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:52.480
You want to be particularly in a confectionery category when you're alongside some really big well-known brands and bright packaging, it's like how do we stand out on that shelf?
00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:55.519
And how do we create design that is memorable?
00:12:55.759 --> 00:13:00.000
Because people have point a fraction of a second when they're looking at the supermarket's shelf.
00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:06.240
So, how do you become like they're gonna remember it, even if it's for in our packs, if you see them, they've got this Venus Fisher up on the front.
00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:07.759
People say, Oh, the woman the monster on it.
00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:08.480
I'll take that.
00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:10.879
As long as you remember me, I'll take that.
00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:15.360
So it's sort of like how do you create really distinctive and like standout branding?
00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:22.639
Um, and don't get me wrong, there's been loads we've done since then, but that was sort of the journey from taking on uh veggie bears to launching wild things.
00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:29.200
Um, and then from when we launched in January uh last year, 2025, it was just all about then how do you gain distribution?
00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:36.960
And then once we get that distribution, um, how do we activate it at the point of shelf and you know it's in store marketing or sampling or etc.
00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:40.080
So that's been pretty much the journey ever since.
00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:53.039
Yeah, and I think the proposition and understanding who you are and who you're for is something that's not always really well thought through and could be really easily communicated.
00:13:53.279 --> 00:14:08.720
So I do see a lot of brands and even really successful brands that have a great product, great taste, and they've got some really good USPs, but being able to clearly communicate the job we're doing is very important, but very understated, I think.
00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:32.559
And taking a taste-led approach is vital, but it would have been very easy for you to stay in that lane, which I think was I think was a brave choice and uh the right choice, but it would have been very easy to say no, we're gonna lead with what's not in the product, rather than just say we taste great, and by the way, we're also really good for you in in comparison to what you might have picked up.
00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:35.679
I think those are hard decisions, but the really important ones.
00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:37.519
I think the important things to pull out.
00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:43.279
And I think to be honest, the more and more like the longer we're now 18 months or so, more than in the market.
00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:45.840
Um, this is our second year, so we're now in October, aren't we?
00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:50.399
But second in the market, I have become way more about stripping it back to basics.
00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:57.039
And we as founders and people in the industry are so obsessed with labels and like micro details in our packaging.
00:14:57.200 --> 00:14:58.720
Consumers just don't think like that.
00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:01.759
And like, how do you work out what problem you're solving?
00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:12.159
Which um, I mean, Fiona Fitzpatrick, I did um her mini MBA she does for founders, it was brilliant, and basically made force us to distill in consumer speak.
00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:13.919
So, not any like crazy charts.
00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:21.120
It's just like in consumer, the way the consumers talk and speak is like, what is it about your what are you doing, what are you solving?
00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:30.159
And my version is that we know that parents love the feeling of being able to say yes to their kids eating sweets, so they love that kind of joy of letting kids be kids and have sweets.
00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:34.799
However, here's the however statement, they feel bad about all the crap that's in them.
00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:44.320
So I'm I'm here, and while things is here, for all the parents are out there saying, I wish that there was an option I know my kids would love and they go crazy for, that I can feel good about giving them.
00:15:44.480 --> 00:16:05.919
And getting to that place of like, and then now we know that getting in front of those people in terms of our marketing and our sales, it's like everything is about making it easier for parents to switch to us and and yeah, just like basically stripping it all back to like what is the problem you're actually solving, as opposed to trying to get into the all these details about gluten-free, dairy-free, vegan, and all these kind of routes you can go down.
00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:14.960
It's like take a step back, just basically trying to simplify and be really clear on who your who your real target um consumer is.
00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:20.480
Um, and then being really simple when you message them and repetitive and consistent with how you message to them.
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:28.879
I I think I I know a lot of a lot of people have been through um Fiona Fitzpatrick's uh mini MBA, I think I think is superb.
00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:39.279
And I think one of the things that comes through strongly for people that have been on it is that purpose, but that ownable purpose that is you couldn't just stick another brand logo on it, also make sense.
00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:41.360
Um I think that's something I see.
00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:48.639
You know, we want to make you know the you think some of the the visions out there of we want to take every everyday food from great food every day.
00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:50.879
It's like, well, that could be any food brand in the world.
00:16:50.960 --> 00:16:59.919
Yeah, so it's one that you can own and nobody else can take off you, um, which is it's something that I see coming through from Fiona Fitzpatrick's work, which is amazing.
00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:08.480
But that's so important to at least get there and say, This is who we are, and this is this is why it's only us that does this thing, I think is really important.
00:17:09.279 --> 00:17:10.480
I think it's I think you're right.
00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:15.920
And that she's also obsessed with like laddering up, laddering up, and it it's it forces you to take a step out of the detail.
00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:22.720
Because I think when you're so close to something, I mean, I live, breathe, eat, think about wild things for 25-8, you know.
00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:28.000
So it's so hard to objectively like review your brand and your positioning and your purpose when you're so in it.
00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:36.720
So taking that step back, simplifying it, and getting really in the consumer's head, as opposed to us FMCG nerds kind of heads in the way we all think.
00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:42.880
It's like that's just not how consumers live their life, particularly in my case, like busy parents, like they're just not giving you that much thought.
00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:44.640
They don't think much about your brands.
00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:50.000
So we we all talk about building brand community, which we are obsessed with, but it's like, what does that look like?
00:17:50.160 --> 00:18:00.160
You know, does that look like I don't know how much are consumers gonna go for brands and like how do we show up in their world and their life in a realistic way?
00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:02.720
But yeah, it's interesting stuff, the whole thing.
00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:03.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:07.839
And you know, I see people talking about we're gonna make brand fans, like doesn't happen.
00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:10.240
You if you're part of a routine, you're lucky.
00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:14.720
But being a brand fan, somebody's gonna get your logo tattooed on their body, really unlikely.
00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:17.279
Unfortunately, that's not how it works in the real world.
00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:18.319
But yeah, I think we get to.
00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:22.480
I think there's a few brands I might be up for a tattoo.
00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:25.440
Yeah, I always said I'd definitely get a tattoo of wild things.
00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:26.640
I don't know what my stakes are.
00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:31.920
Maybe if I put I I yeah, certain retailers' listings, I'd be quite keen for a tattoo.
00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:36.240
I tried it with uh with with the peanut butter brand around proper nutty.
00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:41.440
I put a post out saying if anybody gets it tattooed on them, they will have free peanut butter for life.
00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:43.759
And a few people say they were gonna do it, it never happened.
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:45.920
But um, yeah, I don't know if that was very responsible of me.
00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:52.079
I also think if my if my shock were a parent and my consumer a kid, I think I might be barking up the wrong tree.
00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:57.119
Encouraging children to get tattoos is not exactly the best PR story, but it would be good engagement reaching.
00:18:57.200 --> 00:18:57.519
It'd be cool.
00:18:57.599 --> 00:18:59.519
Yeah, it'd be validation for you, it'd be cool.
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:11.359
Um so again, something that you've um that I read about that you've done, um, which I thought I thought was as somebody who loves being disruptive, I thought was I thought was really cool.
00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:16.400
So I read that you've hand delivered a manifesto letter to Harry Bow's office.
00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:18.720
Um tell me about the thinking behind it.
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:20.160
I I I love that.
00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:22.720
So pick the kind of picking a fight in public.
00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:25.039
I'm a big fan, but yeah, tell me about it.
00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:27.039
Well, I I want to defend this a bit.
00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:33.680
So when I first set out, we just thought it was a brand, like you say, I did I did get the train up to um I can't remember the name of the place there from the street.
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:34.480
Pontefranc.
00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:36.079
Pontifrac, yeah.
00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:47.599
I went up there with a letter, with a kind of call to action to say, look, we've might remove palm oil, gelatin, additives, e-number, all the random crap that doesn't need spin sweets, we've removed and they taste great.
00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:48.720
Why don't you do the same?
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:54.480
So I was sort of bright-eyed, bushy-tailed founder, like going me versus the world.
00:19:54.640 --> 00:20:02.000
And to be honest, again, it was, it was, it got me in a lot of kind of like buzz at the time in our own space when it happened.
00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:06.799
But since then, I mean, that is now coming up, it'll be coming up two years ago.
00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:08.319
We've massively pivoted.
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:19.279
So I I do my personal purpose, you know, a big part of it is making a positive shift in food and giving kids options that aren't better and the, you know, so that is personally important to me.
00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:33.200
However, what I see now in terms of our columns and what we do in terms of our stunts is instead of focusing on picking, picking at other people for having, we used to call it junk line, less, less junk, more punk with one of our strap lines, but we don't use anymore.
00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:37.920
Because it's it's a bit negative going at going at what's wrong with others.
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:44.559
So instead, now we're like trying to be more of a positive vibe, because I hate we don't want to be standing for judgy parents either.
00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:49.680
Of like, if you want to give your kids Harry Bow, give them a Harry Bow if it's you know, it's a party and there's a world where you want it, have it.
00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:55.119
But we want to stand for kind of a positive, fun, no compromise switch.
00:20:55.279 --> 00:21:06.400
So, really instead of focusing on the fun and the wild and like our kind of like just basically like more about the good vibes and the taste, our taste being positive than picking other people's negatives.
00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:18.960
But I still think that spirit of being disruptive and being wacky, and I always love like there's so much stuff that we can do as a brand that no one really in our category can because they either can't own it the way we can or because they legislatively like can't with HVSS.
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:20.240
We we're a small brand.
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:26.880
So there are literally rules on digital marketing that uh big HSS uh kind of sweets and chocolate can't do that we can.
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:29.200
So like gifting and building community that way.
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:33.599
But yeah, me delivering the note to Harry, but I never got a reply, interestingly.
00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:40.000
Um, but I actually like I I I'm more about um, you know, doing us and staying in our lane.
00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:42.160
I don't need to I don't need to talk about us versus others.
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:47.599
I'm like, let's be wild things and let's show people what that can mean and what that can look and feel and taste like.
00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:48.880
Love it.
00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:51.839
I uh I get where you're coming from, I get the pivot.
00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:54.960
I'm still uh I I love the rebellion still.
00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:56.960
Um I'm I'm a fan of the rebellion.
00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:02.000
So one thing I think that uh Um that you're doing that's it's amazing.
00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:08.799
So you've built wild things with an all-female team, and you're very vocal about the motherhood penalty and flexible working.
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:10.079
Tell me a bit about that.
00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:10.880
Why have you done it?
00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:12.000
How does that work in practice?
00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:14.720
And what does it mean for you and your brand?
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:20.400
Well, it's actually an interesting time because we I have we've always had it, wasn't deliberate.
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:22.640
I obviously we hire based on merit.
00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:24.480
Can I just be very overt about that?
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:31.119
But it ended up that we always had um different women and half the team were mums with kids, so they are therefore demographic.
00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:39.359
We actually had our first guy join the team this year, James, to the out-of-home business, who is expected to be a dad very soon in the next couple of months.
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:42.319
So going through the paternity process with him has also been interesting.
00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:49.440
But to answer the question about motherhood penalty, yes, this has always, I think, been a huge, almost subconscious driver of mine.
00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:57.200
Like I love my job, I love this industry, I always have this vision of, you know, working as long as I can.
00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:07.759
Um, but I also would love to at some point have a family and then see my family and have that kind of work-life balance of being able to like pick my kids up from school or, you know, basically having flexibility.
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:11.680
And I, the motherhood kind of, if you don't know much about it, I mean, give it a quick Google.
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:17.680
But it's basically the really disproportionate kind of disadvantage that mothers have in the workplace.
00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:58.960
So beyond the gender pay gap, which is talking kind of addressing fair pay and equal pay for men versus women with different roles, it's actually a kind of facet of the gender pay gap, which is you notice that once people have children, there's a disproportionate expectation on the mum to be the sole carer, whether that means taking really big like stints of leave, or companies not making it, in my case, is what we try to address is like companies not making it very easy for mums to come back because they're expecting you to come back on a 40-hour working week, Monday to Friday, which is just an archaic blueprint that was made back in the kind of day when families could afford to have someone for free, you know, uh at home all the time.
00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:05.759
So it's just um it's something I think almost like I say, like it wasn't a conscious thing I set out to do.
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:11.519
But like the first hire that I made was Abby, who's still with the business, who does her operations, and she's got three children.
00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:16.000
She works fully from home, she works around her, basically, she needs to pick up the kids and drop the kids off.
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:16.640
That's it.
00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:23.759
And then outside of that, she she needs to pick up an email on a Sunday or after the kids go to bed or whatever, she does it.
00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:30.319
But we work on a major culture of trust, and that is, I think, what it's all about, honestly.
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:40.079
Even with uh with James coming in, it's been a really interesting one having James um and us having a conversation about Pat leave because I'm always very vocal about the motherhood penalty.
00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:46.079
But then isn't the other isn't the answer to the motherhood penalty also giving men more leave and letting men step up and hope?
00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:57.039
So it's been a really interesting and challenging one, if I'm honest, with a small business with a team of five all together, working out how that looks and like how do we make, I mean, he's a top salesperson.
00:24:57.279 --> 00:24:58.720
So how how do we navigate that?
00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:02.640
And I think the way we have navigated it is all about flexibility and trust.
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:04.640
He is an adult, we're all adults.
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:10.799
Like we I think you work better when you when you feel uh, I guess, valued and trusted.
00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:18.079
So we're working about how we can return to work in a flexible way and how we can take enough Pat leave to be able to spend time with him and his wife and his new baby.
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:30.880
So I think, yeah, the answer to me, I think challenges can do so much in this space, but how do we create more flexibility in the workplace that allows for modern parents to navigate careers and families?
00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:35.599
I mean, you'd you'd hope on the back of COVID, with with all of us working at home and proving it can be done.
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:37.200
Don't get me wrong, it was a nightmare.
00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:42.720
I think, particularly with people with kids, it was even more of a nightmare, but it proved that it could be done at um at home.
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:52.319
I find it quite sad to see how many of the big corporates have reverted right back to in the office working, because I think it it it really affects so many, particularly mums.
00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:56.480
But yeah, it's a bit, it's a it's it's it's quite a big thing here.
00:25:56.559 --> 00:26:00.640
But mostly we just build a culture that's based around trust and flexibility.
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:05.599
Um, and that doesn't need to come at the expense of our ambitions and our delivery and our output.
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:09.039
Um, but yeah, it's something I feel really proud of, honestly.
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:46.000
And I think for we we talked about kind of the superpower of being a a challenger before, and I think this is another one being something that what you're doing is incredible, but having the ability to stand up for and be the change that you want to see in the industry and we're doing it, and we're actually a small team anyway, so it maybe it affects us disproportionately to have yeah, so beware making the change because we believe it's the right thing to do, and the superpower you have is well, I'll make that change and I'll show it's better and I'll show us another way, and challenge the big corporates that are dragging people back into offices because they've paid so much for them and want to justify the ROI.
00:26:46.160 --> 00:27:00.559
Yeah, yeah, I think it's I think A that what you're doing is brilliant, but B kind of the the lesson being use the platform and use your superpower to make the changes you want to see, whether it's around Mat Leave and or anything.
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:03.680
So there's there's a whole wrath of things to put that across, I guess.
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:04.400
100%.
00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:16.319
And like in my view, like I people I know very close to me have been maybe returned on on coming back off Mat Leave, or have begged their officers, please can I do three days a week or four days a week, and they'll basically say they can't do it.
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:19.359
I just think it's it's utter, it's utter baloney.
00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:25.279
And actually, a lot of most of my friends on the paternity side of things, having two weeks of Pat Leave is pretty barbaric.
00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:34.559
I mean, if you if you think that most births might take two or three days, dad, dad is going back and leaving mum on their own all day with this tiny newborn after after one or two weeks.
00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:36.799
It's just like, yeah, well, you you're right.
00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:43.599
That is that is one of the most incredible things about having your own business, is you can actually just build that culture of what you what you think.
00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:45.039
I mean, to me, that is normal.
00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:48.640
Just treat people like adults and trust them and work flexibly.
00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:50.079
We love being in the office together.
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:58.559
We get so much from it when we are, but we also work just sufficiently from our homes, the other let's three, say three days a week versus the two days that we're in.
00:27:58.640 --> 00:28:01.039
So anyway, it's all part of the fun.
00:28:01.119 --> 00:28:05.759
But yeah, I think I think yeah, uh, hopefully you can only hope it's going to get better and better.
00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:11.839
And there's some there's some good kind of updates recently in the news about leave and looking more broadly at leave.
00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:15.119
Um, but um, yeah, the only way is that I'll put it that way.
00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:17.279
I think it's I think it's brilliant.
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:23.359
Yeah, and enacting the change that you want to see, the things you're passionate about, the things you think are broken, that's what a challenge is about.
00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:28.799
You've you've got your products, you've got your customer, but there's other ways you can impact things as well, uh, which I think is brilliant.
00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:34.960
So when you you're obviously part of a big family community, it's a really great community, particularly in food and drink.
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:41.119
But in your opinion, what's the most overrated things founders obsess over?
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:45.680
And maybe on the flip of that, the most underrated things they ignore.
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:48.799
Oh, that's such a good question.
00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:50.000
I don't know.
00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:56.160
I think I think like about things that I obsessed over as a founder that I feel like I need to stop obsessing over as much.
00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:05.680
Like I I guess personally, I I have obsessed over pace and like been very impatient for growth and listings.
00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:11.359
And actually, I'm I'm now trying to pivot and be like thinking about long-term sustainable.
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:15.759
So not just chasing growth and chasing anything, it's thinking really long term.
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:21.039
And what's helped me in that um is I hate comparison culture.
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:28.319
The problem I love LinkedIn is a great platform to be able to get good reach and be able to share your story, which I benefit from and I enjoy.
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:29.519
But it's hard not to compare.
00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:34.799
And like you, I think we've spoken before, like people only put the good stuff out on Instagram and LinkedIn, don't they?
00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:35.759
Which is great.
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:39.920
But the reality is like running your own business, it's really tough.
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:42.319
Getting a challenger off the ground is really tough.
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:53.039
So I think if you can't compare, so obsessing over what other people are doing, what other people's journey looks like is completely uh pointless, a waste of energy.
00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:58.799
Um, and I think working out it's a marathon, not a sprint, we're building brands that are gonna go the distance.
00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:08.240
I think in that same kind of vein, distribution, people obsess about kind of so I can put swearing, but swinging their dick about what distribution they've got and certain things.
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:10.640
Actually, rate of sale is much more exciting.
00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:12.160
What's your rate of sale doing?
00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:13.519
What's your customer repeat rate?
00:30:13.599 --> 00:30:21.599
Things like that, like obsessing over metrics like that are a much better use of your time than shouting about you know what your distribution looks like.
00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:25.920
Um just a general obsession that I'm still grappling with is TikTok.
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:31.440
I think people just obsess the TikTok shop and people say to me, Oh, you've got to do TikTok, TikTok presenting.
00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:35.359
Like, I'm like, just don't talk about the today with Lorna, who runs our social community.
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:40.480
I'm like, I just don't think our customer, busy parents, are like sat on the TikTok shop looking for deals.
00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:45.839
Certain brands, certain categories, I will eat my words, but I don't know.
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:52.799
There's certain like I think you have to be really careful as a founder of shiny things that promise to be overnight sensation.
00:30:53.279 --> 00:31:09.920
And that's not about being I don't you've got to be agile and you've got to be open, and I've really got to embrace things like AI and how we can do better, but equally trying not to get obsessed with the new shiny thing or someone promising you if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:12.240
Um see that a lot.
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:17.920
And underrated thing that's ignored, or was this your um well?
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:20.240
I think underrated is just all the stuff we spoke about.
00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:25.920
The stuff I'm trying to do better, it's like taste, rate of sale, definitely metrics of rate for sale and repeat.
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:34.559
Um, I'm much more excited by and less now and less obsessed with like growth, growth distribution, because that will come and when it comes, we'll be ready for it.
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:37.279
Um, in terms of building a brand awareness and brand love.
00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:39.839
I'd say things that are underrated is kind of what we spoke about.
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:48.640
That when you're when you are a fountain and you're so obsessed with your product, all these niche things and all these claims, and I'm talking like gluten-free, plant-based, da-da-da-da.
00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:53.200
Like, I mean, now there's a lot of stuff on keto or fiber, whatever, you just forget taste.
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:57.200
Like underrated things people ignore is like this is an ice-tasting product.
00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:00.640
Like, like, and I I need to do more of talking about that.
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:06.480
Like, okay, cool, our sweets are natural health sugar, but they're just it's just a really fruity taste of sweet, just eat it, it's yummy.
00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:09.119
I think that's an underrated piece I'm trying to get better at.
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:26.079
And then I also think, and this is a really, this is a really um, I should not negative thing to talk about, but just your cost of goods, your shelf life, getting, getting just like the kind of fundamentals in this game are taste good and be a good price on shelf, which I think is really hard.
00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:34.640
Most of us challenges are all trying to strip out the stuff that helps your shelf life and helps your cods, which is basically not putting all the crap in it that the big boys uh do.
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:41.279
But I think we've done a bit of a pivot of really looking at our pricing strategy and making sure we're as affordable as possible.
00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:51.599
I mean, we recently launched um our first ever not organic range, still just as tasty, still half a short, still look natural, but introducing a little bit more competitively priced and meeting consumers where they're at.
00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:54.319
I think it's it's unsexy, let's put it that way.
00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:56.240
But I do think it's an underrated thing people ignore.
00:32:56.319 --> 00:32:59.680
It's like, how do you get your cogs to be as competitive as possible on shelf?
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:01.680
Because we're all up against it in our own categories.
00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:03.200
They're all, they've all got behemoths.
00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:06.720
Mine's paribow, but there's there's plenty out there on the supermarket shelves.
00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:08.319
It's dominated by very few names.
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:10.000
So you're really going up against it.
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:17.440
Going in with a better proposition of, as I say, taste good, but also the price as well as it can be, is a I think it's an underrated thing people don't think about.
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:22.319
And it's great to do that also early work before you start even getting to the point of going to market.
00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:39.680
But like work out with your manufacturer, whether it's through your you know, logistics, packaging, anything with the formulation, if there's something clever you can do that won't impact the brand in terms of you know being aligned to your USPs and delivering on taste, etc., what can you do to kind of strip out costs?
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:41.599
Because it's only going to help you down the line.
00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:48.240
Um, but yeah, not so sexy advice, but see how you can get scrutinize your cost of goods.
00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:56.079
But I think in that there's a bit of a misnomer that if you're a challenger, you should also be fucking premium.
00:33:56.319 --> 00:34:06.079
You maybe are premium, and maybe one of your jobs for the category for the buyer for the shopper is to add value, maybe, or maybe just disrupting sat next to a price.
00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:13.119
So it's a misconception that you have to be more expensive because you're new, but you don't have to be.
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:14.320
So no, yeah.
00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:16.960
Can you work harder on the cogs as you said?
00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:25.760
Is that is that a stone you've not unturned because it is a bit unsexy, but what could it do if you could drop your RRP by 50 pence and increase your volume or lap chassis?
00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:26.320
100%.
00:34:26.559 --> 00:34:31.519
And and it's even looking at things like I mean, the cost of petrol and logistics now is is really expensive.
00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:34.719
So getting in the detail, like what kind of outers are you using?
00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:37.280
What SRPs, is there something smart you'd be doing?
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:41.039
What what's the root of your stock basically to customers?
00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:42.960
Could you be increasing your MOQs?
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:47.760
It this stuff actually really does make a difference with how you can um compete.
00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:55.679
And I think, yeah, a founder said to me, Well, look, you we do all this, we do a lot of us do lots of stuff on sampling, give away free samples and activation.
00:34:55.920 --> 00:35:03.920
They said to me, the best way of sampling is just getting as cheap as you can on the shelf or getting as good a competitive promotional strategy on the shelf because then people are more likely to pick you up.
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:08.800
I'm like, Fools about it like that, instead of obsessing about these RRPs and you know protecting them.
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:19.599
I'm like, try just see what you can do to be clever at your cogs to enable you to have as most kind of like the best trading strategy on that shelf as possible to give you give you your best chance.
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:21.039
It's very important.
00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:23.519
So, final question then.
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:30.320
So said we're part of a great founder community, we we like to um you all like to share ideas and chat to each other.
00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:38.000
Somebody comes to you asking for advice and says, I've got a great product, but there's no momentum.
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:41.119
Where are you telling that person to start to look?
00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:43.679
Oh god, that's a biggie.
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:44.800
Also, I love that.
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:47.679
There's nothing better to talk about that, I think, than business and ideas.
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:51.119
So I think that's what's so lovely about this community is we do all help each other out.
00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:52.800
In terms of like, don't you know where to start?
00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:54.559
I think they are on ground zero.
00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:55.840
Is that what you're saying here?
00:35:56.159 --> 00:36:02.320
Yeah, they know they've got a good product, so it's not, it tastes great, it does what it says it's gonna do, but they're just not getting the momentum.
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:03.840
So it's where else do you look?
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:06.159
Once you've got that foundation, where do you go?
00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:08.079
Well, I think there's a few things here.
00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:22.159
I would want to make sure that I'd done enough consumer research and got enough real consumer feedback about let's say the product's great, maybe it's packaging, like what you can even hover round shelves and ask people, hey, I noticed you didn't pick that up.
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:23.039
Why didn't you pick that up?
00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:36.480
And do weird things like that and take it to many people that will talk to you about giving their real feedback if they're not picked, if there's, for example, the rate of sales slow, um, how you could maybe refine your messaging, your your packaging, if it's not resonating, why is that?
00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:38.159
I think that would be a good place to go.
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:45.920
And then I also find, I mean, again, it's not that uh revolutionary, but for us, Amazon was such a good place.
00:36:46.000 --> 00:37:02.000
It's not the most profitable channel, but the fact that it's accessible on day one and you have all this traffic and all these keyword search terms of people, what they're actually after, if you can make it at least net neutral in terms of profitability or like you make small profits on it, you can get some really good scale there.
00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:07.199
And I love what I love Amazon for is I feel like it's a really good discovery and trial um driver.
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:09.599
R suite to be doing kind of party packs.
00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:16.559
And I love this idea of something what just one person needs to kind of um find us and then give us to 20 kids at a party and kind of spread that word.
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:36.159
So I'd say really get to understand if it's if you're feeling like you're hitting a wall in terms of your rate of sale, I'd really try and understand through as much consumer feedback, which you can do for free, get as many people talk to you, to talk to you as unbiasedly and as raw and as open as they can about uh, you know, maybe you need some insights on why they're not picking up on the shelf.
00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:44.960
Um, and then if it if you think that you've refined the packaging, you want to start, I'd say Amazon is a good place to start just getting some uh schools or the doors, you know, getting some sales in.
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:48.000
And whilst you do that, take that next step.
00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:57.440
It for us was always grocery retail, but going after pitching to all these different schemes that I mean, a lot of these retailers now and distributors have fantastic challenger brand schemes.
00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:03.599
The first one for us was the Acadia Roots program that backed us and got us on a cardo, which has been brilliant, um, brilliant for us.
00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:07.679
But Whole Foods Market do pitches, I think it's every quarter or every half year.
00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:12.000
And then between all, I think co-op were kind of reassessing what they do with their April programme.
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:16.480
They they we were on their last cohort, which has been amazing learning for us and the brand getting out there.
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:24.480
But co-op, you know, Tesco's, Sainsbury's, Waitrose all have new brand programs, as well as actually BidFoods open doors, and I think Brakes have got one now.
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:31.920
So there's places you can kind of start knocking if you want to get that first almost like foot in the door and first um chance for your brand.
00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:38.239
But yeah, just reach out to people in this community because there's no there's no better community for it that people all help each other out.
00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:40.320
Yeah, yeah, I can definitely attest to that.
00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:42.800
And uh I think that's really good, really solid advice.
00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:47.280
Um, so yeah, but I mean before we completely wrap up, what's what's coming up?
00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:48.239
It's October.
00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:49.039
What's coming up?
00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:51.920
It's Halloween, baby.
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:55.519
We we Halloween is like our Super Bowl.
00:38:55.599 --> 00:39:01.599
Like it is the one time of the year that people are thinking about sweets and our particularly our community of parents.
00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:06.639
So we've got like the most jammed calendar ever in October.
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:14.639
One thing, well, I guess a good plug is anyone that shops on a cardo, quick, we're doing something quite batch shit crazy on a cardo.
00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:26.960
Anyone who buys any Wild Things product across this spooky season, they can go on our website, just show us their PDF receipt, and then we will send them a bundle of sweets, the minimum of like 20, 20 or so packs of sweets for Halloween.
00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:35.360
Because I want that my kind of movement feeling of people spreading the word and uh yeah, and sharing our sweets with people in their community.
00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:47.119
So quickly, I mean, our overarching campaign in October is all about no tricks, just treats, which is obviously a nod to our label and what we're about, but also um we're trying to spread that as much as we can.
00:39:47.199 --> 00:39:52.719
And we've got we well, we're launching with Smiths, WH Smiths in airports and train stations this month.
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:55.360
We're in 91 um stores with them.
00:39:55.519 --> 00:40:02.719
As of now, we're just rolling into, I guess when this when this pod goes out, we would have just rolled into Asla Express stores, 500 of them.
00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:06.960
Um, we're in clip strip with them for Q4 as a bit of a trial, which would be awesome.
00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:12.079
Um, as well as having our second window outside Whole Foods, which is always the most cool thing to see.
00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:14.079
No tricks, just streets and a big banner.
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:17.760
And we've got some kind of really fun in-store stuff happening with Whole Foods Market.
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:19.039
So it's great.
00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:22.559
And then, yeah, literally, me and the team are doing, I can't even remember I've lost track.
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:24.960
I think we're doing five days of mass sampling in in London.
00:40:25.039 --> 00:40:38.880
And then with everyone active, we're doing some community samplings of some of our other customers, just getting there, bringing in some fun games and trying to kind of do whether it's mass scale events or more community events, just getting more suites in people's hands and more sweets in people's mouths.
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:40.320
Um, so yeah, check us out.
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:43.920
Or if you can't do any of that stuff, get our trick or treat box on Amazon.
00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:45.360
You won't regret it.
00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:47.840
Busy, busy all Noctober.
00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:51.039
But yeah, that sounds, I mean, and some new listings amongst that as well.
00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:52.320
That's uh that's pretty incredible.
00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:52.960
Keep you busy.
00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:53.840
So exciting.
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:55.679
Um, we'll keep us busy, that's for sure.
00:40:55.840 --> 00:40:56.880
No rest for the wicked.
00:40:57.039 --> 00:40:59.360
Yeah, but um, but thank thank you so much for your time.
00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:01.199
That's I've I've learned a shitload.
00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:02.639
Um, it's been really, really good.
00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:08.559
Thank you so much for giving the time and some real truths from from your journey you've had so far.
00:41:08.719 --> 00:41:11.440
Um, as Fliss said, make sure you check them out.
00:41:11.599 --> 00:41:16.079
Accado, Amazon, WH Smith, Sasda Express, all the places you've mentioned.
00:41:16.159 --> 00:41:19.599
Um, and yeah, we'll uh thank you so very much.
00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:20.639
Really appreciate your time.
00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:22.079
Thanks, I mean you legend.
00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:23.039
Thanks for having me, me.
00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:28.400
Thanks for listening to Making Mighty, the Food and Drink Challenger Growth Podcast.
00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:38.800
If your brand feels like it's hit a ceiling and you're not sure what to fix next, drop me an email at makingmighty at gmail.com and ask me about the Making Mighty M O T.
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:45.519
You're gonna spend around 30 minutes on it, and within a week, you'll have a clear, practical plan to get your brand moving again.
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:49.119
I'll reply to you personally, and I'll see you next time.
