Building Trinity Roofing

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all right, welcome to the limitless roofing show, where we give you a seat at the table as we talk with roofing owners so that you can take your business to the next level.
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And today I have the honor of interviewing one of the members of the limitless roofing gpo, mr matt dravis.
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So, matt, thanks for being on the show.
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Man, thanks, man.
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Appreciate it, dylan, always glad to talk with you.
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Two cool things about Matt Lives in Texas, like.
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I do, and has a really healthy beard.
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Yeah, never left.
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Always been here.
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Yeah, it's hard to leave Texas once you get here.
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Well, matt, thanks for being on the show.
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I we were going to get into, you know, your company journey so far, some of the biggest challenges you're facing, how you're dealing with them, and we're going to get into some gold nuggets on from there.
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But before we do that, just give a little bit of background.
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How long have you been in the industry?
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Uh, where's your company?
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How'd you get into roofing stuff like that?
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sure, yes, I got in kind of by accident.
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Um, my dad was doing it and I thought I was going to be like the smart kid and tell him that he was crazy and that I wasn't going to follow in his footsteps.
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And I went off into the oil and gas realm, went off into that world for about a decade and got tired of getting laid off.
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Off into that world for about a decade and got tired of getting laid off and, uh, started selling part-time and very quickly realized that man, like the roofing that I was taught, like the physical aspect of it, and selling two different worlds.
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Um, it turned me off.
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I didn't want to be a roofer, right, I didn't want to be a laborer and there, there's nothing wrong with that, but I just, I just couldn't see myself doing that for 50 years.
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But then, when I saw the sales side of it and was successful there, I was making more part time selling routes than I was full time in the oil field, and that's that's really what.
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What brought me in and I for for a couple other companies for a while.
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And, like everybody else's song and dance, you work for someone long enough.
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You eventually don't get paid.
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Um, they something happens and they don't pay you and you move on and try something else.
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Um, had that not happened, I'd probably be working for that other outfit still, cause I liked it, it was a lot of fun, it was a lot easier just to sell instead of doing everything else.
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But we've been doing Trinity Roofing and Restoration for about a decade that's nine years and we love it.
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I have a lot of fun.
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There's tough times, like we were talking about earlier, but, man, there's nothing I would want to change.
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I mean nothing about like I would not go back into the oil and gas industry and go back offshore or any of that kind of stuff.
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So we started out doing residential roofing and we've slowly started working our way into commercial.
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We even do a lot of restoration and remodeling now too, so not just on the roof roof, but inside the building or inside the home, and that's keeping us pretty busy this year.
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So it's been a lot of fun that's great.
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So you guys were founded around 2015 uh late 2016.
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Yeah, late 2016.
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Gotcha man, that's so cool.
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So, looking back when you, you know, when you weren't treated, treated properly and you weren't paid at the time, I mean, what was that like?
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I assume you felt like, man, this is going great, now Everything's just turning into a nightmare.
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Yeah, it was one of those where I was still working my day job, so I still had income coming in, so it wasn't like I was hurting.
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But you know I had just started a family, you know I.
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At that point it had, uh yeah, my, my, my fourth kid, um, so that extra supplemental income meant a lot and I wasn't.
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I wasn't spending time away from my family for nothing.
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I wanted I wanted to be able to show something for it.
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I don't have any animosity towards those guys.
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They were in a hard time, I get it.
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It was just not the right thing to do.
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It was a trial, for sure, but it taught me a lot of lessons.
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That's one of the things I don't do.
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I don't mess around with other people's money.
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When I owe my subs, when I owe my team, they'll get paid before I do for sure, 100%.
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And there have been months where I don't get paid to make sure that they can.
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I mean they're working just as hard and I'm the one that if it goes well, great, great for all of us.
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If it doesn't, you know I'm the one that's ultimately responsible for that.
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Yeah, it's so interesting how those painful moments or those trials or challenges really affect the way you operate down the road.
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And I look at even companies I've been with in a sales role or account executive role and the way I was treated as a salesperson or an account executive and the way I was managed affected the way I manage people now, because I know what it's like to be micromanaged, to be under a ton of pressure to you, know stuff like that.
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So where do you find that healthy balance between accountability but at the same time, not micromanaging, and that's a challenge.
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But it's just cool to just cool how to see how you're.
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Part of the story involve you not getting paid, which is a challenge.
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But then that was the probably the tipping point for you to say you know what?
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I think I can do this on my own and I'm going to take care of people financially and not that that's never going to happen to my people.
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Well, it's the same thing for training too, because I came in and I got about three hours of training before I was just told to go knock doors, right, and then literally I I sell my first door knock, or the first door knock that I sold.
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Um, I'm literally looking at a contract my dad had written and I'm looking at a blank one and I'm copying and pasting, not knowing anything about what I'm writing.
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I'm just doing a blank one and I'm copying and pasting, not knowing anything about what I'm writing.
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I'm just doing a carbon copy and say, hey, sign this.
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I don't know what I'm doing and I think I was just blessed with the tenacity of wanting to know.
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And so you can ask some of our team we probably train a lot too much, if that's a thing, because I got none of it in the beginning.
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So I want people who come to work for Trinity to be like man we train all the time.
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We don't stop training, we really don't.
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You know, everybody has a one-on-one with me, and then every Friday we train, every Monday we train, and then we also try to get together on weekends, if we're.
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If we're not out door knocking or have jobs or whatnot, we're training.
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Man, that's great, yeah, it's.
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It's interesting because a lot of you know a lot of guys have different takes on leadership and motivation.
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And this came up some at some point earlier in the week with guys in the limitless roofing group and it was on a mastermind call and somebody said how are you motivating your sales guys?
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And I made the comment that it's not your job to motivate people.
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That's a heart issue and a mindset or a head space issue, but it is your job to equip them.
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Right Like that.
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Servant leadership is that you equip people so that they can achieve the goals that you've set with them together.
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So it's, there's a big difference between motivation and equipping.
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Motivation is like getting people to believe that they can do this thing or getting them to want it or whatever.
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I just don't think that can happen in a short burst at a Tony Robbins event or whatever.
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But within a few days you go back to just the normal world.
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But if you're equipped to do something that the owner of the company asks you to do and you're trained, that's a whole different world, and then you become motivated to keep doing it because it's working.
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So let's get into.
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You've been about 10 years in now A lot of guys that are sales guys think about it like man, I could do this on my own.
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What was it like going from being in sales to building a company?
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What was that gap like going from that one role to, all of a sudden, you're wearing all the hats, you're worried about bookkeeping, all that stuff.
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So the two things I would say is I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
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It's a tough job.
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And the second thing I'll say was I was lucky enough that when I was young my dad never let me have a job.
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He always made me have my own business.
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So from the time I was 10, I've never really other than other than going out to the oil field, I've never really worked for anybody, um, so I've never had a steady paycheck.
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I've never had, you know, benefits really, other than that that time in the oil field.
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Um, so I was used to kind of the rich dad, poor dad, of being able to go out and work and work and work and work and work and not pay yourself.
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Um, and because of the other businesses that I've had I was used to doing, you know, I was the laborer, the accountant, the CPA, the tax filer, the purchaser, I mean you name it.
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I was wearing that hat and I've had to learn how to delegate and I've had to learn how to hire right to bring people in so I can delegate some of those tasks out, because as you grow you just can't do everything.
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I mean people try to hold on to it way too long I know I have.
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It was tough in the beginning going from wearing one or two hats to all of a sudden, because in sales like the company I was at before we started Trinity Roofing, we just sold.
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That was it.
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I didn't have to worry about project managing and ordering and all the back end office stuff that wasn't me.
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I just went out and sold office stuff that wasn't me.
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I just went out and sold.
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So of course your sales suffer when you start taking on all these other responsibilities, and then you quickly find out like hey, it's you know it's not as
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easy as it looks, and some people make it look flawlessly easy.
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I am not one of those.
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You would not use me as a case study for someone who started a business and it went really, really well and they had no hiccups.
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We have hiccups all the time here today, but it's a.
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It was a learning experience, something I wouldn't take back, something I would do over and over and over again.
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That's something I'm trying to teach my kids is learn to get good at a lot of different things, cause you're going to need all of them.
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That's good.
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Yeah, sales is like a one-on-one sport, like tennis or wrestling or whatever.
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But as soon as you go to being a company owner, it immediately flips to a team sport.
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It's like you can't be the quarterback and the lineman and the wide receiver and all those roles.
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So what is your?
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what are your goals for Trinity in the next couple of years?
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Like revenue, wise business model, wise stuff like that.
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So we've completely flipped our business model.
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We've gone to the inside outside sales model.
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We're still, I would say, 60, 70% through that.
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Implementation is going to take a little bit of time to get there, but, having the inside-outside model, I'd like to be this year between $4 and $5 million in revenue and over the next, say, three to five years, hitting that $10 to $15 mark, if not sooner.
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We didn't do quite as well last year as I had hoped.
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We had some uptick at the end of the year, but obviously no one's where they want to be.
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Most people want to continue to grow, but I think for us, the biggest goal we have is hiring more of the right people and making sure they're in the right seats on the right direction of the bus and you and I have talked about that in the past.
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Of people are just so crucial and the right people are tremendous.
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If you stick the right person in the wrong seat or you just have the wrong person in general, it can wreak havoc on an organization, and that's my biggest focus for 2025 is getting the right people on the bus.
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That's so good.
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Yeah, there's so much we could say about that.
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So you want to land around 5 million this year and then get up to 15 in the next two or three years.
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So far you're 10 years in.
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You're doing well.
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Your company's growing.
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It's on an upward growth trajectory.
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I know you've grown a lot as a leader.
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You're learning about putting the right people in the right place.
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You're in our mastermind and we're talking about things like culture index excuse me, different tools that help make that a lot easier.
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But let's talk about challenges, because you and I know that it really doesn't matter what business every business you're in, especially if you're the owner.
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The amount of challenges and the intensity of the challenges you face come and go, and I've heard a preacher say one time you're either going into a storm or coming out of a storm, or you're about to go into one, like it's just hey, if everything's great and you have zero challenges, you've either plateaued or just give it a little time, right?
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so so let's talk about some of the biggest challenges you've been facing, maybe this year yeah, this, this, uh, this year's been rough, man, I feel like every time I've turned around this year I've gotten kicked in the teeth.
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We had a phenomenal project go off towards the end of last year.
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The guy's first check bounced and now he's refusing to pay anything.
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So $34,000 sitting out there that I'll probably never collect.
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Ticking the teeth, right.
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We've had guys underperforming.
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We had someone undersell a job like a really big job with a GC that we've done a lot of work for.
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So not only did the project go south from the beginning because there wasn't enough money allocated to even cover cost, the person didn't go through SOPs, I didn't even and this all falls on me, man I didn't even know about the project until the GC called me when there was an issue and I'm like what are you talking about?
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Right, the SOPs weren't followed.
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I didn't even know about it.
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I'm not blaming the other person about Right, the SOPs weren't followed, I didn't even know about it.
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I'm not blaming the other person Again, it goes back to me.
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But we're in the hole on that one and we ruined a relationship with the GC that I've done a lot of work for and spent the last five years building a relationship.
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So you know 20, 30, 40 projects to build the reputation and less than one project to ruin it.
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So again, just kicking the teeth.
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Cashflow this year has been hard to manage, people have been hard to manage, and then trying to hire people, I've had to stop what I'm doing, slow down and be able to go.
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Okay, we've got to have a training program, we've got to have something written out.
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So that takes me away from just running the business, just to be able to go back and say if we want to bring people on and bring them on the right way, what do we have to have in place to do that?
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And so everything else has had to take a back seat, which doesn't help all that other stuff.
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So this year has definitely been challenging and every business has that right.
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Every business has those gut-punched moments where you're like okay, are we doing the right thing?
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Are we on the right path?
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You know, is it easier just to fold the whole thing up and go get a job, or is it easier to let somebody else run this thing?
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What is?
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it we're doing?
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Why are we here?
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What's the purpose of this and to me that's a lot of it is.
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What's kept me going is what is the ultimate purpose.
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You know, if I'm here just for the money, I'm going to bail out at some point.
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Go find somebody that pays better.
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But if you're in it for the right reasons and you got those reasons and you know them we're just going to keep getting kicked in the teeth until we figure it out yeah, yeah.
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So when you talk about those chat like that's that is a blow.
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When you know you're not going to get paid for a job and then an issue with the team member and then a relationship getting damaged, stuff like that, you know these challenges and mistakes and whatever it starts to weigh on you as the owner and your, your headspace, the kinds of things you're thinking about saying.
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You know you start waking up at two in the morning thinking about it, mulling over it and stuff like that.
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But you know that's I think that's the key to persevering when things are hard is what is yourself talk like?
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And they they found this out in the Navy SEALs that they developed a mental toughness program because and I've shared this analogy, I think, several times over the last few years on this podcast but they developed a mental toughness program because they found out that they could have two guys go through buds and one of them was a farm boy from Kentucky who didn't look like anything special physically and another guy, some guy from Florida, that swam all the time, did nothing but work out, eat right, just physicality, was a powerhouse and that guy would fail and the farm boy from Kentucky who'd almost never swam before, would go through and pass and become a SEAL, and they found out it was because of the self-talk.
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It was like most of it was the person's self-talk as they were going through buds, and so they developed a mental toughness program and the first thing was to replace negative self-talk for positive self-talk, like little stuff, like they would tell.
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Each tell themselves I'm going to make it through this next thing, I'm going to make it to lunch.
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I'm going to make it to launch, not like huge goals for the year or for six weeks, or I'm going to make it through this next thing.
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I'm going to make it to lunch.
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I'm going to make it to lunch, not like huge goals for the year or for six weeks, or I'm going to pass budgets.
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I'm going to pass this.
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This one exercise is not going to keep me back.
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I'm going to make it through and I'm going to enjoy a nice lunch.
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So what's your, what's your headspace been like?
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Or how have you encouraged yourself or how have you reoriented your perspective to make sure you do persevere and you don't get weighed down by it all too much?
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well to two things.
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Well, several things, I guess.
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One, remembering who's ultimately in control and to remembering who's in control of me, like am I gonna let that guy who's going to pay me ruin the rest of my career or ruin the rest of my company or ruin the rest of my life?
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Yeah, $34,000 and I getting paid?
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That sucks, it hurts.
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Am I going to let that stop everything else or am I going to figure out a way to persevere and overcome?
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You know, same thing with all those other scenarios Are those?
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Am I going to allow those to be big enough to take me over and take me under, or am I going to just figure it out and just keep going?
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And so the headspace sometimes is you're waking up at 2 am, like two days ago it was 341, I beat my alarm by an hour and I'm up and I'm like okay, I can.
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I wake up and I'm already visualizing what went wrong yesterday.
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What are we going to do about it?
00:19:29.526 --> 00:19:36.489
Those kind of nights can stink if you let it get to you, but it really just gets back to.
00:19:36.489 --> 00:19:39.364
Am I going to let this overtake me?
00:19:39.364 --> 00:19:58.593
Am I going to let this control me, or am I going to figure it out and, thankfully, I've never had the opportunity to give up, I've never given myself the out, and I don't ever want to be at that point, and so it's just making sure that I say, okay, everything's a lesson, nothing's a failure.
00:19:58.593 --> 00:20:01.308
You're only a failure if you quit and you give up and you stop.
00:20:01.308 --> 00:20:04.787
Just because you had something go wrong doesn't mean you're a failure.
00:20:04.787 --> 00:20:05.409
It's a lesson.
00:20:05.409 --> 00:20:06.511
Learn from it.
00:20:06.511 --> 00:20:07.925
Don't make the same mistake twice.
00:20:13.339 --> 00:20:13.519
Move on.
00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:17.426
Yeah, I heard the quote one time sometimes you win and sometimes you learn yeah, that's right.
00:20:17.446 --> 00:20:18.528
So how do you do that?
00:20:18.528 --> 00:20:20.311
How do you let go of control?
00:20:20.311 --> 00:20:23.423
You're trusting that I'm going to get through this.
00:20:23.423 --> 00:20:25.507
This is just a season.
00:20:25.507 --> 00:20:27.391
I'm season, gonna learn from this or whatever.
00:20:27.391 --> 00:20:31.103
But how do you, how do you tap into that?
00:20:31.103 --> 00:20:34.672
Or how do you foster that for you personally to let go of that control?
00:20:34.672 --> 00:20:36.246
I mean, do you journal?
00:20:36.246 --> 00:20:37.773
Do you talk to other guys about it?
00:20:37.773 --> 00:20:38.376
Do you pray?
00:20:38.376 --> 00:20:39.842
Like what does that look like for you?
00:20:41.505 --> 00:20:43.048
I do something I can control.
00:20:43.048 --> 00:20:48.003
So so I may not be able to control that guy paying me, um, but I do stuff I can control.
00:20:48.003 --> 00:21:00.560
I hit the gym every morning and that's something I can control, if nothing else good happens today.
00:21:00.560 --> 00:21:02.261
I know that I started my day off right, took care of my mind, took care of my body.
00:21:02.261 --> 00:21:15.032
And you know, normally for me when I'm, when I'm working out, that is when I'm praying, that's typically when I'm in my headspace with God, with the Lord, and saying, ok, here's what I'm not liking, here's what I am liking, what do we do about this?
00:21:15.032 --> 00:21:15.665
And it's.
00:21:16.106 --> 00:21:24.880
I try to have that conversation with them every morning while I'm trying to lift heavy stuff and put it back down and just having fun with that.
00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:25.205
So it's.
00:21:25.205 --> 00:21:28.476
I mean it's not much, but that's what I do.
00:21:28.476 --> 00:21:31.027
I've tried to journal.
00:21:31.027 --> 00:21:34.575
Typically, what I end up doing is writing out my future.
00:21:34.575 --> 00:21:38.329
You know I will be good at this, or I have done this, or I am doing this.
00:21:38.329 --> 00:21:45.530
And even if those things aren't true or not true yet, I put that down and it goes back to that self-talk.
00:21:45.530 --> 00:22:00.938
If I tell myself that I'm strong and resolute, then if I say it enough times, it's going to happen because I'm going to believe it, I'm going to think about it and write it down every day, and then eventually it's going to be who I am, because I'm speaking it into existence.
00:22:03.125 --> 00:22:04.648
That's great, yeah.
00:22:04.648 --> 00:22:20.141
Another thing that comes to mind is the whole gap versus the gain concept, where you can look at the gap between where you are and where you want to be, which always leads to stress, fear, depression, you know all kinds of stuff.
00:22:20.141 --> 00:22:33.445
Or you can look at the gain from the period that you started until now and all that you've gained in knowledge and wisdom and business development and and that's you know.
00:22:33.445 --> 00:22:36.653
I think that's such a healthier way to look at business, is you?
00:22:36.653 --> 00:22:45.587
You focus on the gain and look at how far I've come, look how far we've come, and that's a really powerful thing, cause it's so easy to forget and just focus on.
00:22:45.587 --> 00:22:48.411
Well, once we get here, we'll be in a better spot.
00:22:48.411 --> 00:22:54.980
You know, once we get our operations here, once we get our people, our team and there's always, there's never, you never arrive.
00:22:54.980 --> 00:23:03.230
So if you're always focused on the gap, it just increases the pressure and the stress.
00:23:03.230 --> 00:23:05.977
So now that's interesting to hear how you work through that.
00:23:07.785 --> 00:23:08.752
I like to do that too at the gym.
00:23:08.752 --> 00:23:10.345
A lot of people that work out.
00:23:10.345 --> 00:23:25.747
I think their their number one focus is working out, but for me it's just down time, so I love that time to just reflect and pray and talk to god and and um, listen to, listen to helpful audio books and podcasts and stuff.
00:23:25.747 --> 00:23:41.546
So so your fa, so the challenge with the job, the challenge with the not getting paid and other stuff like that what's what's been one of the biggest lessons you've learned as you face some of these challenges, with this being one of your hardest years?
00:23:41.546 --> 00:23:44.992
What's, what do you think is the biggest thing that is being revealed to you?
00:23:44.992 --> 00:23:50.996
Uh, for, in the midst of all this, have a process and follow it.
00:23:52.165 --> 00:23:54.994
Having the process doesn't mean anything if you don't do it.
00:23:54.994 --> 00:24:01.954
You know if you, if you know how to bench press, but you do it exactly the opposite way that you know it should be done.
00:24:01.954 --> 00:24:03.548
What good is that doing?
00:24:03.548 --> 00:24:09.997
You're going to get hurt, kill yourself or, at the very least, not gain any muscle and be wasting your time.
00:24:09.997 --> 00:24:20.094
So we've had to go back and refine the processes that we do have, and then I've had to get pretty strict on making sure the team follows them and making sure that we're.
00:24:20.094 --> 00:24:31.019
If we've got it in writing and we're not doing it that way, is there a reason we need to change the process or do we need to get back to the basics of following that process?
00:24:31.019 --> 00:24:39.199
I think a lot of the things, a lot of the issues we've had, could have been avoided by just following the process we already have.
00:24:40.846 --> 00:24:41.871
That's good stuff, man.
00:24:41.871 --> 00:24:45.355
Well, I want to get into next.
00:24:45.355 --> 00:24:48.013
I want to get a little bit into your inside outside sales thing.
00:24:48.013 --> 00:24:54.269
I think that's something most guys do not know about and you you're kind of overhauling the sales arm of your business.
00:24:54.269 --> 00:25:10.661
But before we do that, I want to thank one of our sponsors and for those of you listening to this, you may or may not know what the Limitless Roofing GPO is, but we are essentially a group purchasing organization, which means we pull 360 plus companies together.
00:25:10.661 --> 00:25:15.892
We go to suppliers and vendors and we negotiate group deals and discounts.
00:25:15.892 --> 00:25:19.026
We pass those savings on to our members, and Matt's one of those.
00:25:19.707 --> 00:25:27.972
And one of our partners is Atlas Shingles and I think for a lot of guys in roofing, everybody's really proud of the product they use, and you should be right.
00:25:27.972 --> 00:25:31.310
But a lot of guys make the mistake and we all do this.
00:25:31.310 --> 00:25:39.315
You make the mistake of thinking other people understand roofing, like you do, and homeowners do not understand roofing.
00:25:39.315 --> 00:25:44.371
So I don't care if you're using OC or GAF or any of them.
00:25:44.371 --> 00:25:46.275
The homeowner doesn't know what that is.
00:25:46.275 --> 00:25:50.233
Okay, I know this from being a homeowner and getting into roofing four years ago.
00:25:51.986 --> 00:25:59.098
But with Atlas, one thing you can do is say our shingles are covered in Scotchgard.
00:25:59.098 --> 00:26:03.491
Homeowners know what Scotchgard is, so Atlas has some amazing products.
00:26:03.491 --> 00:26:12.458
They have a great class three, a great class four and they've teamed up with the company Scotchgard and that's something where you can talk to the homeowner and make it relatable.
00:26:12.458 --> 00:26:24.726
So if you have any questions about our partnership with Atlas and how you can save on products, just reach out to us at our website, limitlessroofinggroupcom, and you can learn more about that powerful partnership that we have with Atlas.
00:26:24.726 --> 00:26:32.990
All right, so getting back into Trinity Roofing, you mentioned early on inside outside sales.
00:26:32.990 --> 00:26:39.275
So what is that and how is that different than whatever model that you had prior to that?
00:26:40.695 --> 00:26:41.217
outside.
00:26:41.217 --> 00:26:41.957
Everybody was going out.
00:26:41.957 --> 00:26:57.471
If we had inbound leads, they were taking that going out, meeting the homeowner, meeting the business owner, trying to figure out a solution to the problem and going from there.
00:26:57.471 --> 00:27:14.134
So each one of those people, while they could get leads, they were also ultimately responsible for A to Z going out, trying to generate their own lead, take the lead and get it all the way through to a signed contract and then our operations team can take it from there.
00:27:15.444 --> 00:27:24.480
The inside-outside model really kind of pairs an inside sales coordinator with an outside inspector or an outside salesperson.
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:49.999
So an inside sales coordinator will do a lot of the admin work, a lot of the background work measuring the roof, taking down all the information, getting everything that they need from the client before someone ever goes out there, so that inside person possibly could close the deal over the phone, over Zoom, over email, without ever having to send somebody out to the property.
00:27:49.999 --> 00:27:54.654
But they're just, they're a detective, they're trying to get all the information possible.
00:27:54.654 --> 00:27:56.247
What are they looking for?
00:27:56.247 --> 00:27:57.289
What are their problems?
00:27:57.289 --> 00:27:58.532
What are their pain points?
00:27:58.532 --> 00:27:59.817
Are they looking for financing?
00:27:59.817 --> 00:28:01.167
Are they looking for just a repair?
00:28:01.167 --> 00:28:04.096
Are they trying to just sell that, the property?
00:28:04.096 --> 00:28:08.192
And so they need someone fast, right, the outside person.
00:28:08.192 --> 00:28:12.208
Once they get all the information, they pass it on to the outside person.
00:28:12.208 --> 00:28:14.134
They've already got the appointment scheduled.
00:28:14.134 --> 00:28:15.487
They go out there and run the appointment.
00:28:15.487 --> 00:28:19.015
They're essentially the physical detective, you know.
00:28:19.015 --> 00:28:21.449
The inside person wants to know all the information.
00:28:21.449 --> 00:28:32.832
The outside person wants to know everything about the roof or everything about the project the size, the scope, the measurements, how many pipe jacks, what colors are they looking for?
00:28:32.832 --> 00:28:33.855
What colors are going to work?
00:28:33.855 --> 00:28:35.017
What shingle do they want?
00:28:35.017 --> 00:28:37.990
Do they want tile versus metal versus asphalt?
00:28:37.990 --> 00:28:39.114
What is it that they need?
00:28:39.114 --> 00:28:42.714
There's a lot of that stuff that the inside person is getting gathering too.
00:28:42.714 --> 00:28:46.750
But sometimes you can get a feel for that more when you're in front of the person.
00:28:48.096 --> 00:29:01.076
But essentially the inside person builds out the whole program and then the outside person goes there, does a couple touch-ups, presents a proposal and typically can close it on the spot if everything goes wrong.
00:29:01.076 --> 00:29:01.857
Right.
00:29:01.857 --> 00:29:18.933
So it breaks up the roles and the responsibilities where that outside person's not having to do as much except go out and make sure that everything is perfect on the measurements and tell you know, run them through, what it looks like to do the job and hopefully close the deal.
00:29:18.933 --> 00:29:21.227
If they don't close it, that's okay.
00:29:21.227 --> 00:29:24.357
Both people are still going to tag team that follow-up.
00:29:24.980 --> 00:29:36.201
So now the biggest problem in our industry is that the sales guy has a hundred different people every month they're supposed to follow up with from the month before and the month before that, and we all know they don't do a very good job of that.
00:29:36.201 --> 00:29:38.431
You know, that's not to knock anybody out.
00:29:38.431 --> 00:29:39.704
I'm not the best at it either.
00:29:39.704 --> 00:29:44.718
But now we have someone who's dedicated in the office, who has it on their calendar.
00:29:45.204 --> 00:29:49.675
Hey, I need to follow up with Mrs Smith, mrs Jones and whoever else today.
00:29:49.675 --> 00:29:53.104
Hey, I need to follow up with Mrs Smith, mrs Jones and whoever else today.
00:29:53.104 --> 00:29:58.662
And that way if the outside person doesn't have time for it or doesn't remember or just isn't good at time management, that person sitting in the office can do that.
00:29:58.662 --> 00:30:05.855
And if that person needs to see someone more face-to-face, they can send the outside person back over there to talk to them again.
00:30:05.855 --> 00:30:09.835
So it really kind of divides the roles and responsibilities up.
00:30:09.835 --> 00:30:25.195
But the inside person is also going to be the same person who follows up with him about scheduling the project, collecting a check or sending the wire transfer or however it is, we're doing that and then continuing that relationship in the future.
00:30:26.566 --> 00:30:37.806
Man, that's so good and I think it freezes somebody who's really wired for sales and into that part of the business and interacting with homeowners and leading people to an educated decision.
00:30:37.806 --> 00:30:52.976
I'm making a broad, sweeping statement here, but most of the time people that are great at that are not great at organizational skills and staying organized and following a process and following through with, like you mentioned, like if it's a hundred different leads.
00:30:52.976 --> 00:30:56.090
I mean, that's that's so hard to juggle that many balls.
00:30:56.090 --> 00:30:58.016
I don't think anybody can do that really well.
00:30:58.016 --> 00:30:59.627
So but why did you?
00:30:59.627 --> 00:31:00.471
What was your?
00:31:00.471 --> 00:31:02.556
What was the impetus for you to change your model?
00:31:05.746 --> 00:31:09.714
Man, in a word, john Abernathy.
00:31:09.714 --> 00:31:18.650
The way he described it and the way he taught us how they're doing it, joplin was like, as soon as he said it, a light bulb went off.
00:31:18.650 --> 00:31:21.654
I'm like why have I never thought of this before?
00:31:21.654 --> 00:31:23.972
How come no one else is teaching this?
00:31:23.972 --> 00:31:26.346
Everybody in the roofing industry is doing it.
00:31:26.346 --> 00:31:27.451
Completely the opposite.
00:31:27.451 --> 00:31:32.154
Our industry, while it can be lucrative, is extremely tough.
00:31:32.154 --> 00:31:35.634
And if all these guys are failing, maybe it's because we're doing something wrong.
00:31:36.326 --> 00:31:42.419
And as he was teaching and describing it, I was like that's exactly what we need, because my guys are so swamped with everything.
00:31:42.419 --> 00:31:47.297
They need this back end office support from someone who's dedicated.
00:31:47.297 --> 00:31:53.051
And the way he teaches it is that you know it's not like willy nilly, free for all.
00:31:53.051 --> 00:32:01.518
You've got a dedicated inside sales coordinator, or whatever you want to call them, dedicated to two or three outside folks.
00:32:01.518 --> 00:32:06.032
So it's not like one person does everybody or one person does whoever calls in that day.
00:32:06.032 --> 00:32:08.079
You know you've got.
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:22.596
You know person A is only responsible for A outside people and person B is responsible for the B outside people and they're on a team, essentially, and so they help each other, they want each other to win and it's not a.
00:32:22.596 --> 00:32:36.519
It's competitive, but it's I'm going to compete with you, not against you you get more of that camaraderie and that team and just the way he described it, and I'm still asking him questions on it.
00:32:36.519 --> 00:32:41.365
I'm still learning from him, but the more I get out of out of how they do it, the more I'm like man.
00:32:41.365 --> 00:32:46.305
This is, this is where we need to do it and I think I shared with you a while ago.
00:32:46.305 --> 00:32:52.067
We hired our first inside salesperson about a month ago, probably about two months ago now.
00:32:52.067 --> 00:32:55.555
Game changer, game changer.
00:32:55.555 --> 00:32:57.398
I've been able to delegate stuff.
00:32:57.398 --> 00:32:59.848
The team has been able to delegate stuff.
00:32:59.848 --> 00:33:07.614
They're knocking it out of the park for us and we've had tremendous growth because of that.
00:33:08.936 --> 00:33:09.798
Man, that's killer.
00:33:09.798 --> 00:33:15.854
We need to give that person a culture index survey and see what type they were, and you can just keep hiring types that are similar to that.
00:33:16.325 --> 00:33:18.413
Actually, yeah, we, we sent her the index.
00:33:18.413 --> 00:33:21.134
I need to get with Adam and get that back.
00:33:21.134 --> 00:33:26.336
I think she took it already but, yeah, if I could duplicate that, that'd be phenomenal.
00:33:27.265 --> 00:33:27.685
So what?
00:33:27.685 --> 00:33:32.047
How do you incentivize the inside sales person if they do tag team?
00:33:32.047 --> 00:33:33.570
Well, first two questions.
00:33:33.570 --> 00:33:39.185
One is does the inside sales person ever lead it across the finish line?
00:33:39.185 --> 00:33:41.432
From the sales standpoint, they.
00:33:41.432 --> 00:33:49.174
She has the opportunity, they can yes okay, so they can, but the outside person could too right so but at yeah, go ahead.
00:33:49.455 --> 00:33:57.094
Well so so the way I've instructed that position is if we we go through what we call the roof discovery questions.
00:33:57.094 --> 00:34:03.915
It's just a list of questions we go through to learn everything we can about you and your roof or you and whatever project that you're looking at.
00:34:03.915 --> 00:34:13.335
So if she can get through all of that and she can create the measurements and send it over to you and you're ready to go, the outside team doesn't even get involved.
00:34:13.335 --> 00:34:32.237
If, however, they still have questions or they want someone to come take a look, or they think, hey, there's hail damage or wind damage or whatever, or I think something's wrong with my roof and I just need to repair, she'll go through the same questions, get all the same information and pass it off to one of the outside team members and they'll they'll try to go in and close it.
00:34:32.237 --> 00:34:33.478
In either case.
00:34:33.478 --> 00:34:40.847
You know she she's incentivized to help close that deal, so the more, the more we close, the more she's making.
00:34:42.128 --> 00:34:42.731
That's cool.
00:34:42.731 --> 00:34:43.612
Yeah, that's.
00:34:43.612 --> 00:34:52.717
I just love that model and, for those of you listening to this, if you want to learn more about this, you know it's worth scheduling a call and considering joining our mastermind.
00:34:52.717 --> 00:34:57.572
We go deep on this stuff for hours at a time and it's pivotal.
00:34:57.572 --> 00:35:01.987
It can be pivotal in your business, but I think you're finding out, matt it's.
00:35:01.987 --> 00:35:17.989
You know it takes a while to build that out, get the right people to get the SOPs in place, but once you do by the end of this year, you're probably going to be good with that for the next five to 10 years.
00:35:17.989 --> 00:35:21.094
You're just going to build on to that solid foundation and framework.
00:35:21.094 --> 00:35:21.876
So that's awesome, man.
00:35:21.876 --> 00:35:32.106
There's just very few roofing companies that I know that are operating that way and it just makes so much more sense to me yeah, and you know we've.
00:35:32.869 --> 00:35:36.356
I'm doing what I've always done, because I've always done it, because that's what I learned, right.
00:35:36.356 --> 00:35:38.913
Well, that doesn't make it the right way.
00:35:38.913 --> 00:35:44.153
So thankfully, guys like John are out there and he's teaching teaching a better way.
00:35:45.456 --> 00:35:49.385
Yep, yep, john's a solid dude, so, um.
00:35:49.385 --> 00:35:57.489
So, matt, we're coming up kind of to the top of the hour here, knowing what you know now, up to this point in your journey.
00:35:57.489 --> 00:36:09.996
What's a parting piece of advice you would give to encourage any other owners listening to this that may be going through similar challenges, or maybe not yet, but maybe they may have had kind of a light bulb moment today, I think.
00:36:09.996 --> 00:36:12.617
Wait, what the heck was he talking about inside, outside?
00:36:12.617 --> 00:36:14.739
What's a parting piece of advice you have?
00:36:16.018 --> 00:36:23.722
I would say that if a guy like me that can't see, my best asset is that I can grow facial hair.
00:36:23.722 --> 00:36:31.724
If a guy like me can do this, if you put your mind to it, you can be successful in this industry or anything else you want to do.
00:36:31.724 --> 00:36:33.992
You know, it's, it's, it's all up here.
00:36:33.992 --> 00:36:47.438
Right, you could have very little smarts, very little talents, but if you really want to do something, if you really want to learn about it, everything's inside these devices that we're looking at.
00:36:47.438 --> 00:36:54.514
Everything you ever wanted to learn, you know you don't have to go sit in front of a lecture and learn it for four or five years or whatever.
00:36:54.514 --> 00:36:59.728
So I would just say that if you really want something, find a way and go get it.
00:36:59.728 --> 00:37:02.791
Whatever that is, there's nothing that's stopping any of us.
00:37:02.791 --> 00:37:05.472
We just got to get out of our own way.
00:37:07.025 --> 00:37:07.829
So good man.
00:37:07.829 --> 00:37:19.958
Well, matt, thank you so much for being on the show and just kind of giving us a peek behind the curtain at your business and your journey and your leadership, and, for those of you listening, I hope you got a lot out of this.
00:37:19.958 --> 00:37:27.626
I love what Matt said about follow the process, focus on your mindset and make sure you got the right people in the right seats.
00:37:27.626 --> 00:37:36.552
I think there's just some real value that we discussed today and for any of you that want to join our roofing GPO, our group purchasing organization, it is free to join.
00:37:36.552 --> 00:37:39.628
You just go to our website at limitlessroofinggroupcom.
00:37:39.628 --> 00:37:43.016
So, matt, thanks again for being on the show, man.
00:37:44.364 --> 00:37:45.568
Thanks, dylan, I appreciate you having me.