Coding the cosmos with Skylar Grayson

WEBVTT
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The universe is
awe-inspiring in its scale,
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mysteries and beauty.
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Many people are drawn to astrophysics
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and astronomy for these very reasons.
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And today's guest, Skylar
Grayson, is one of them.
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Like there is so much that
is still unknown and a mystery.
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And I was really excited about
the prospect of being a part
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of answering those questions.
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And Skylar isn't just interested in
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understanding the universe.
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She wants to help other
people understand it too.
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Astronomy brings people together.
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It's a very, very popular science.
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And so there's a huge opportunity to help
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with science literacy, help
build trust in science,
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help get people excited about science
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that comes from caring about astronomy.
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A PhD candidate in Arizona
State University's School
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of Earth and Space Exploration,
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Skyler builds giant computer
simulations to study
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how super massive black
holes shape entire galaxies.
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These digital universes
run on super computers,
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track everything from gas
to stars to dark matter,
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and help researchers piece together
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how galaxies evolve
over billions of years.
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And outside the lab, she's
built an audience online
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explaining those same concepts in ways
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that people can actually understand
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and clearing up some of
the Internet's favorite
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misconceptions about space.
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I'm Pete Zrioka, and this
is Lab Coat Optional.
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The show where advanced research
meets everyday curiosity.
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In this episode, we break
down what black holes are
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and what they're not, how
scientists can understand things
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that are billions of light years away,
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and why studying all this stuff matters
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to us here back on earth.
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So stick around to hear all of that
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and more, including Skylar
torture me with the mere mention
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of dark matter, which
frightens and confuses me.
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Skylar, welcome to the show.
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I'm so excited to learn about some
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astrophysics with you today.
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I'm intimidated, but you're
gonna have to walk me
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Through it. It'll be
great. It'll be fun. Okay,
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Awesome.
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I had a question right off
the bat, that might seem kind
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of silly, but I do think it's important
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to differentiate these two things.
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You're an astrophysicist.
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What is the difference between
that and an astronomer?
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Yes. You know,
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sometimes these terms are used
interchangeably even
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by people in the community.
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But the more kind of appropriate way
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of thinking about it is
astronomy is very focused on the
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"where and the what."
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And astrophysics is
more focused on the "why."
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So astronomy is a lot of using telescopes
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to look at objects,
map out where they are,
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what they're doing, see how
they change catalog things.
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And astrophysics is focused
around using physics,
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which is why we bring
that one to the name,
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to understand why things are behaving,
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the way they're behaving,
where they came from,
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where they're going, how
they're impacting the
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rest of their environment.
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And so it's more of interested in
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understanding the underlying mechanisms of
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how things work in the universe.
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And most of the field
today is astrophysics.
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Oh, okay.
There is a lot of cool astronomy
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that's being done in
terms of big telescopes,
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taking big surveys, but it's
ultimately with the goal
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of doing astrophysics
with that data, using it
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to answer big questions about
how the universe functions.
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So to apply a very
rudimentary analogy to it,
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an astronomer is like a geographer
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or cartographer like a map maker.
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And you are more like a geologist
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and trying to figure out why those
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landforms are where they are.
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That's a great analogy.
Okay,
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so you study super massive black holes.
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What is a super mass of black hole
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and how do they influence
the space around them?
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Yeah, so the basic idea
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behind a black hole is it's
just an object that's very,
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very, very dense.
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Okay.
And its gravity is so powerful
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that not even light can escape.
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So every object has some speed
that you have to go in order
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to escape its gravity.
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And the deal with the black hole is
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because that speed is faster
than the speed of light.
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And nothing in the universe can go
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faster than the speed of light.
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Nothing can escape a black hole. - Okay.
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There's a lot we don't
understand about them in terms
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of the underlying physics,
especially when we sort of pass
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that point of no return, where no matter
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how fast you're going, you
can't get out. - Event horizon!
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Event horizon - that's exactly
it! - I love that movie.
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But what people don't realize
is that there's a lot of stuff
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that's going on outside
of the event horizon
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that's really, really important
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astrophysically speaking.
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Okay. - So when you have
a supermassive black hole,
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and we find these in the
center of the galaxies,
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there are usually some stuff around them.
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Normally a lot of gas,
sometimes there's stars
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or star clusters, but there's
just material in the center
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of the galaxy that's getting
slowly pulled in towards the
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black hole by its gravity,
but isn't in there yet.
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And when there's a lot of that material
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and it's moving really, really quickly,
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it can get really, really hot.
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And that energy can escape
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'cause it's not in the black hole yet.
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So it can escape. And sometimes
there's so much energy
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that it can do very drastic
things to not only the area
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around the black hole, not only the galaxy
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that the black hole lives in,
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but even the large scales of the universe.
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Hmm. Yeah. So, okay, you
said they're in the center
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of galaxies, so is it like
they're kind of a drain
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and everything's kind of
slowly rotating toward them?
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That is a very common picture
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that people have in their heads
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but actually
gravitationally speaking,
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black holes act like any
other massive object.
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Okay. - You have to be close enough to it
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to actually get pulled in.
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So if we were to take the
sun in our solar system
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and replace it with a black
hole that's the same mass
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as the sun, Earth wouldn't
get pulled into it.
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Oh. - We just keep going
around in our same orbit
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because we're very, very far
away from that event horizon.
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So they're not all consuming monsters,
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they're just a fixed point
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that everything else orbits around.
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Yes. They're a big
gravitational potential source.
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Yeah.
But they're not vacuum cleaners.
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They're not sucking
things in from across the
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expanse of the universe.
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Okay. So, but how, okay,
how do black holes get there?
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They don't start it, they're,
they don't just wink into
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existence as black holes, right?
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No, this is a very open
question in the field,
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particularly the big black holes.
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So there are different masses
of black holes that we see.
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And typically we talk about
supermassive black holes
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and then stellar mass black holes.
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Okay?
So stellar mass black holes are
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the mass of a star.
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And they form, essentially
when you have a really big star
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that reaches the end of its life,
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becomes gravitationally unstable
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and just collapses in on
itself, makes a black hole.
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And so these are, you know,
10 times the mass of the sun.
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We're seeing them up to maybe 20,
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a hundred times the mass of the sun.
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But then in the center of
pretty much every big galaxy we
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see supermassive black holes
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that are millions, billions of times
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the mass of the sun. And
how you get from something
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that came from a star to something that is
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that big is a really big question
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Because they're so
much bigger than stars.
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And we're seeing them
early on in the universe,
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Okay.
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Where if you, you know,
black holes can grow,
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they can eat material up, they can combine
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with other black holes.
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But we see them so early on
that there's a question of
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how could they get so big so quickly?
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Could they start from something
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that was actually bigger
than just one star?
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Could you get a direct
collapse of a giant cloud of gas
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that forms into a black hole?
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Could you get a collapse
of a cluster of stars
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that form into a black hole?
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So a lot of people are
trying to figure this out,
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but we aren't entirely sure
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how these supermassive
black holes came to be.
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Okay. When I was reading
through your website
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and some of your work,
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one term I kept coming
across was galactic feedback.
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Can you tell me what that means?
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Yeah. So that is the idea
that, like I mentioned,
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when you have stuff around
a super mass of black hole,
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there's energy that can go
back out into the galaxy.
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Okay.
And we call these feedback processes
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because often they are
connected with cycles.
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So if you think about
material around a black hole,
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it gets really hot.
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There's a lot of energy
that's coming out of it.
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It can create pressure
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and push gas away that prevents
the black hole from growing.
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Okay. - And so you kinda
lose that disc of material
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around the black hole, but
now you don't have any more
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pressure to keep things.
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And so that material can then come back
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and then the cycle can start again.
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So it's these ideas of
these feedback loops
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where things can sort
of feed into each other,
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but really we mostly use the
term when we think about things
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that put energy back into the galaxy.
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So material around supermassive black holes is one
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of those, but stars can do this as well.
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Supernova, big explosions
from stars, winds
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that are driven by stars.
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These are other forms of feedback.
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Okay. So I think I know
what a galaxy is, which is a,
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a collection of solar systems, yes?
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Yes. There, you know, there's one
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of the difficult things about
astronomy is humans like
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to put things in boxes.
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Sure. - And the universe
tends to exist on a spectrum.
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Oh boy.
And so the difficult thing
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with galaxies is there are
some things like the Milky Way,
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these big spiral arms,
we see giant structure,
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and that's very clearly a galaxy.
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But there are also small galaxies,
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we call them dwarf galaxies,
that can look a lot like
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clusters of stars that we
find within the Milky Way.
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So how you define what's just
a big cluster of stars versus
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what is a small galaxy is tricky.
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Sometimes people talk about
the dark matter content,
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which is a whole other mess.
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I don't know if I wanna get into that.
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Yeah.
Okay.
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But it's essentially, you
know, for the most part we think
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of galaxies as gravitationally
bound collections of stars,
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gas and dust.
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And they sit within this
halo, this bed of dark matter.
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When we think about studying
galaxies from the perspective
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of humans
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and why that should matter
to us, when we think about
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where we came from, all of the materials
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that exist in this room.
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Yeah. - Those all came from
space in one way or another.
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Most of them came from stars doing fusion,
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turning smaller elements
into bigger elements.
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Eventually those elements
go back out either
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through the form of those winds
that we were talking about,
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or through supernova.
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And then that material
propagates through the rest
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of the galaxy and can
eventually form new stars
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and new solar systems.
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Okay.
And so we care about these cycles
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and we care about the ways
in which materials are
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00:10:34.560 --> 00:10:38.220
distributed and how things
can form or be destroyed
254
00:10:38.220 --> 00:10:40.560
because that matters
for how we can be here.
255
00:10:40.560 --> 00:10:42.210
And when you're say, when
you're talking about these
256
00:10:42.210 --> 00:10:45.930
things happening, what
timescale are we talking about?
257
00:10:45.930 --> 00:10:47.130
Because you're saying like,
you know, there's a lot
258
00:10:47.130 --> 00:10:48.210
of stuff going on out there, but
259
00:10:49.800 --> 00:10:51.030
Astronomically speaking,
Right?
260
00:10:51.030 --> 00:10:52.235
Astronomically speaking, yeah.
261
00:10:52.235 --> 00:10:53.850
Yeah. So, you know,
262
00:10:53.850 --> 00:10:57.845
the universe is 13.8
billion years old, which is,
263
00:10:57.845 --> 00:11:01.050
I would argue a timescale
that humans cannot comprehend.
264
00:11:01.050 --> 00:11:02.640
No. - I know I cannot.
My brain does not work
265
00:11:02.640 --> 00:11:03.845
in billions of years.
266
00:11:03.845 --> 00:11:05.820
Yeah.
It doesn't work in millions of years.
267
00:11:05.820 --> 00:11:07.680
It barely works in 10 years.
268
00:11:07.680 --> 00:11:12.600
Same. - Right. So I think
that the, the timescale that is
269
00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:15.270
of importance for me when we
talk about galactic evolution
270
00:11:15.270 --> 00:11:18.300
is hundreds of millions
to billions of years.
271
00:11:18.300 --> 00:11:20.280
Okay.
Stars can be shorter.
272
00:11:20.280 --> 00:11:22.800
The big stars, stars that explode can live
273
00:11:22.800 --> 00:11:24.810
for 10 million years.
274
00:11:24.810 --> 00:11:25.890
That's a short lifespan.
275
00:11:26.820 --> 00:11:28.170
You know, the sun is going to live
276
00:11:28.170 --> 00:11:30.060
for about 10 billion years
277
00:11:30.060 --> 00:11:33.360
and it's sort of a intermediate mass star.
278
00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:34.890
So there are stars that live a lot longer,
279
00:11:34.890 --> 00:11:37.590
and there are stars that
live a lot shorter than that.
280
00:11:37.590 --> 00:11:39.480
Earth is like 4 billion years old.
281
00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:40.530
Four and a half. Yeah.
Four
282
00:11:40.530 --> 00:11:41.670
and a half billion years old.
283
00:11:41.670 --> 00:11:44.070
What's 0.5 when we're
talking billions? Anyway,
284
00:11:45.060 --> 00:11:48.450
You know what, it matters
If you say so. Four
285
00:11:48.450 --> 00:11:49.950
and a half billion years old,
286
00:11:49.950 --> 00:11:52.440
and then you're talking
hundreds of millions of years
287
00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:55.630
for a galaxy to form and
change and do different things.
288
00:11:55.630 --> 00:11:59.800
So I guess my, the
question I'm driving at is
289
00:11:59.800 --> 00:12:01.420
how do you observe these things?
290
00:12:01.420 --> 00:12:02.740
Because you're certainly not
291
00:12:02.740 --> 00:12:04.210
watching it happen in real time.
292
00:12:04.210 --> 00:12:09.210
Yes. That is one of the major
issues with astronomy, is we
293
00:12:09.310 --> 00:12:11.260
do not exist in the timescales
294
00:12:11.260 --> 00:12:14.080
where we can watch a
individual object evolve
295
00:12:14.080 --> 00:12:15.130
from start to finish.
296
00:12:15.130 --> 00:12:17.170
Okay. - And see the different
cycles it goes through,
297
00:12:17.170 --> 00:12:18.730
and the way that it changes.
298
00:12:18.730 --> 00:12:22.210
We can see a lot of different
objects at different stages
299
00:12:22.210 --> 00:12:25.120
of their lives and start
to put a puzzle together
300
00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:26.410
that gives us a complete picture
301
00:12:26.410 --> 00:12:27.910
of what's going on in the universe.
302
00:12:27.910 --> 00:12:31.120
One of the great things
about the universe is
303
00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:33.190
that it is a natural time machine.
304
00:12:33.190 --> 00:12:36.250
Okay. - Because light does
not travel instantaneously.
305
00:12:36.250 --> 00:12:37.960
It takes time to get from
one place to another.
306
00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:40.000
And when we're talking
about something as big
307
00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:43.540
as the universe, it takes
a lot of time for light
308
00:12:43.540 --> 00:12:46.180
to get from a distant galaxy to us.
309
00:12:46.180 --> 00:12:49.090
So you'll hear astronomers
use words like light years
310
00:12:49.090 --> 00:12:50.320
as a measure of distance.
311
00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:54.070
So light years just how far
light can travel in one year.
312
00:12:54.070 --> 00:12:57.100
And when we talk about scales of galaxies,
313
00:12:57.100 --> 00:13:00.010
the Milky Way is a hundred
thousand light years across.
314
00:13:00.010 --> 00:13:02.290
Okay. - So it takes a hundred
thousand years for light
315
00:13:02.290 --> 00:13:05.410
to get from one side of our
galaxy to the other side.
316
00:13:05.410 --> 00:13:08.290
Oof. - And that means even within
our own galaxy, you know,
317
00:13:08.290 --> 00:13:12.370
we're seeing things as they
were in the past significantly.
318
00:13:12.370 --> 00:13:13.840
The nearest galaxy to us
319
00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:15.670
that's big is called the Andromeda Galaxy,
320
00:13:15.670 --> 00:13:18.430
and it is 2 million light years away.
321
00:13:18.430 --> 00:13:21.610
So we're seeing it as it
was 2 million years ago.
322
00:13:21.610 --> 00:13:23.650
Right. - But that's the
closest thing to us.
323
00:13:23.650 --> 00:13:27.070
We can push to galaxies that
are 10 billion light years away
324
00:13:27.070 --> 00:13:29.140
or further, 40 billion light years away,
325
00:13:29.140 --> 00:13:32.020
and see them as they were
in the past, see them
326
00:13:32.020 --> 00:13:34.180
as they were in the early universe
327
00:13:34.180 --> 00:13:35.800
so we can understand better
328
00:13:35.800 --> 00:13:37.450
what the early universe was like,
329
00:13:37.450 --> 00:13:38.770
because we can literally see it.
330
00:13:39.910 --> 00:13:41.740
Does the enormity of that freak you out?
331
00:13:41.740 --> 00:13:43.390
'cause it freaks me out.
332
00:13:43.390 --> 00:13:44.390
Sometimes.
333
00:13:44.390 --> 00:13:47.050
Okay.
I think it provides a good perspective.
334
00:13:47.050 --> 00:13:50.620
I think that that's a big
draw of the field to me, is
335
00:13:51.910 --> 00:13:55.000
thinking on cosmic scales
is a good reminder, both of
336
00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:56.595
how small we are
337
00:13:56.595 --> 00:13:58.450
And insignificant, but also of
338
00:13:58.450 --> 00:14:00.610
how much we are a part of this.
339
00:14:00.610 --> 00:14:02.920
You know, we're talking about
these cycles and ecosystems
340
00:14:02.920 --> 00:14:04.210
and we live in that.
341
00:14:04.210 --> 00:14:06.520
We exist because of these processes
342
00:14:06.520 --> 00:14:08.230
that have been happening
for billions of years.
343
00:14:08.230 --> 00:14:09.550
We're a part of this.
344
00:14:09.550 --> 00:14:12.910
And so there's a level of
comfort in that too, for me.
345
00:14:12.910 --> 00:14:15.875
As in every problem you have
is really a small problem,
346
00:14:15.875 --> 00:14:17.200
or like...?
347
00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:19.030
Every problem we have
is a small problem.
348
00:14:19.030 --> 00:14:21.850
And it's also quite
wonderful that we are able
349
00:14:21.850 --> 00:14:23.355
to exist in this universe.
350
00:14:23.355 --> 00:14:26.740
Oh, okay. That that is
wonderful. I like that. Yeah. Okay.
351
00:14:26.740 --> 00:14:29.020
So you can observe this
stuff in real time.
352
00:14:30.400 --> 00:14:32.920
H how do you, how do you figure
out, other than looking at
353
00:14:32.920 --> 00:14:37.090
snapshots of galaxies at
different times, how do you try
354
00:14:37.090 --> 00:14:38.757
to like put this all together?
355
00:14:39.620 --> 00:14:40.990
So one of the big tools,
356
00:14:40.990 --> 00:14:43.600
and the thing that I work
with mostly is simulations.
357
00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:45.220
Yeah.
We simulate the universe. Okay.
358
00:14:45.220 --> 00:14:47.590
You know, simulations act kind
359
00:14:47.590 --> 00:14:49.750
of like an astrophysicist laboratory.
360
00:14:49.750 --> 00:14:52.520
Okay. - Because we can't
create universe in a lab,
361
00:14:52.520 --> 00:14:54.290
but we can try to simulate it
362
00:14:54.290 --> 00:14:56.450
and we can create simulations
363
00:14:56.450 --> 00:14:58.490
that span the history of the universe.
364
00:14:58.490 --> 00:15:00.590
So we can actually really see
365
00:15:00.590 --> 00:15:04.280
how an individual object can
evolve across those timescales.
366
00:15:04.280 --> 00:15:06.350
Okay. When you're talking
about simulating the universe,
367
00:15:06.350 --> 00:15:09.355
that sounds very
computationally intensive to me.
368
00:15:09.355 --> 00:15:11.840
You, you're not running
these on your laptop?
369
00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:13.890
No, I, I run them on
NASA's supercomputers.
370
00:15:13.890 --> 00:15:15.140
Whoa! - And they take weeks.
371
00:15:15.140 --> 00:15:16.140
Okay.
Yes.
372
00:15:16.140 --> 00:15:19.910
Okay. And so when we're
talking about a simulation
373
00:15:19.910 --> 00:15:22.190
of the galaxy, we're
talking about models, right?
374
00:15:22.190 --> 00:15:23.270
You're, you're modeling things.
375
00:15:23.270 --> 00:15:28.270
Yes. - Okay. So when, when
we say galaxy simulation,
376
00:15:28.340 --> 00:15:29.930
can you put that in more
practical terms for me?
377
00:15:29.930 --> 00:15:32.330
Is that a map, is it a big image?
378
00:15:32.330 --> 00:15:36.230
Is it a theory, something else? Like...
379
00:15:36.230 --> 00:15:37.790
How far... everything?
380
00:15:38.690 --> 00:15:39.690
Sometimes.
381
00:15:39.690 --> 00:15:42.350
Okay. - Kind of. There's a
lot of different simulations
382
00:15:42.350 --> 00:15:43.610
and different types of models.
383
00:15:43.610 --> 00:15:46.250
People will simulate individual objects.
384
00:15:46.250 --> 00:15:47.480
People run simulations
385
00:15:47.480 --> 00:15:50.630
of just black holes in
the areas around them.
386
00:15:50.630 --> 00:15:53.540
I use what we call
cosmological simulations. - Okay.
387
00:15:53.540 --> 00:15:57.170
So these are things that are
millions of light years across,
388
00:15:57.170 --> 00:16:01.370
contain thousands of galaxies
and one simulation volume.
389
00:16:01.370 --> 00:16:04.130
And what we're trying to do
with these is capture all
390
00:16:04.130 --> 00:16:08.390
of the main processes that
go into galaxy evolution.
391
00:16:08.390 --> 00:16:11.600
So that includes modeling
things like dark matter,
392
00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:12.980
which I know you don't wanna talk about.
393
00:16:12.980 --> 00:16:15.080
It's just stuff that
doesn't interact with light.
394
00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:16.820
That's all it is. It's just material
395
00:16:16.820 --> 00:16:17.840
that doesn't interact with light.
396
00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:19.450
That sounds way too simple. That's,
397
00:16:19.450 --> 00:16:20.450
That's what it is.
398
00:16:20.450 --> 00:16:21.283
We don't know a lot
399
00:16:21.283 --> 00:16:23.905
because light is our main tool
for studying the universe.
400
00:16:23.905 --> 00:16:25.850
Okay.
And so it's hard to study something
401
00:16:25.850 --> 00:16:27.290
that doesn't interact with light,
402
00:16:27.290 --> 00:16:29.210
but we can see it's gravitational effects.
403
00:16:29.210 --> 00:16:31.310
So we know there's something out there,
404
00:16:31.310 --> 00:16:33.110
but we just can't see it.
405
00:16:33.110 --> 00:16:35.540
It's stuff that doesn't
interact with light,
406
00:16:35.540 --> 00:16:37.610
but has gravitational force.
407
00:16:37.610 --> 00:16:38.610
Because it has mass.
408
00:16:38.610 --> 00:16:39.680
Because it has mass. - Yeah.
409
00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:44.360
So we include that in our models. Okay.
410
00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:46.790
We essentially just say
there's this dark matter,
411
00:16:46.790 --> 00:16:48.080
this is just stuff that interacts
412
00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:50.060
gravitationally, nothing else.
413
00:16:50.060 --> 00:16:52.695
Then we say there's gas in the universe.
414
00:16:52.695 --> 00:16:54.920
And so we need to model
the hydrodynamics of how
415
00:16:54.920 --> 00:16:57.110
that gas evolves, how it involves in terms
416
00:16:57.110 --> 00:17:00.290
of its temperature, its
velocity, its pressure, density.
417
00:17:00.290 --> 00:17:02.780
So there, there're these
really complex mathematical
418
00:17:02.780 --> 00:17:06.565
equations that are being solved
across all of the volume.
419
00:17:06.565 --> 00:17:08.570
Okay.
And then we have things like the
420
00:17:08.570 --> 00:17:10.820
astrophysics star formation.
421
00:17:10.820 --> 00:17:12.500
We have to model, you know, when gas gets
422
00:17:12.500 --> 00:17:14.600
above a certain density, it conforms stars
423
00:17:14.600 --> 00:17:15.815
black hole formation.
424
00:17:15.815 --> 00:17:17.660
If you have a galaxy,
425
00:17:17.660 --> 00:17:20.960
oftentimes we just say there's
a black hole in the galaxy.
426
00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:23.000
We don't model that from first principles
427
00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:24.020
because like I said, we don't
428
00:17:24.020 --> 00:17:25.280
really know where they came from.
429
00:17:25.280 --> 00:17:28.280
Right. - Truly, we're just
trying to capture as much
430
00:17:28.280 --> 00:17:29.660
of the physics as possible.
431
00:17:29.660 --> 00:17:31.850
We wanna be able to see
when galaxies collide.
432
00:17:31.850 --> 00:17:34.520
What does that do? When you have feedback
433
00:17:34.520 --> 00:17:36.140
that's coming from the
supermassive black hole?
434
00:17:36.140 --> 00:17:38.810
What does that do? When you
have stellar populations
435
00:17:38.810 --> 00:17:40.970
that add different chemicals to the gas?
436
00:17:40.970 --> 00:17:43.130
What does that do? So
we're trying to model all
437
00:17:43.130 --> 00:17:44.690
of these things at once
438
00:17:44.690 --> 00:17:47.480
and it's very computationally expensive.
439
00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:49.410
How did you become
interested in this field?
440
00:17:49.410 --> 00:17:50.970
Like, it's so daunting.
441
00:17:50.970 --> 00:17:53.250
Just talking to you about
this stuff is like, it...
442
00:17:53.250 --> 00:17:55.560
I genuinely, I'm
just like, ah. Yeah.
443
00:17:55.560 --> 00:17:56.670
I don't know if I wanna keep talking
444
00:17:56.670 --> 00:17:58.800
because like, like I don't get it, man.
445
00:17:58.800 --> 00:18:00.045
I'm glad that you're having so much
446
00:18:00.045 --> 00:18:01.315
fun chatting with me. Thanks.
447
00:18:01.315 --> 00:18:02.640
It's so daunting.
448
00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:04.500
Like, how did you become
interested in this
449
00:18:04.500 --> 00:18:06.210
and then gain the foundational
450
00:18:06.210 --> 00:18:07.590
knowledge to like, keep at it?
451
00:18:07.590 --> 00:18:10.950
Because like, I'm still stuck
in dark, dark matter man.
452
00:18:10.950 --> 00:18:14.580
Sorry, I shouldn't have
brought it up. That's on me.
453
00:18:14.580 --> 00:18:18.540
I, I first became interested
in astronomy when I was
454
00:18:18.540 --> 00:18:19.740
like in middle school.
455
00:18:19.740 --> 00:18:21.960
Okay. - And I started reading
books by people like Carl
456
00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:23.100
Sagan.
457
00:18:23.100 --> 00:18:27.240
And I think that it was one
of the first times in my life
458
00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:30.750
where I was like, "Wow, we really
don't have all the answers.
459
00:18:30.750 --> 00:18:34.590
Like, there is so much that is
still unknown and a mystery."
460
00:18:34.590 --> 00:18:37.710
And I was really excited about
the prospect of being a part
461
00:18:37.710 --> 00:18:38.880
of answering those questions.
462
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:41.130
And I think that astronomy is a field
463
00:18:41.130 --> 00:18:44.700
that in the last 100 years
has changed so dramatically
464
00:18:44.700 --> 00:18:47.040
and we've seen so much progress
465
00:18:47.040 --> 00:18:51.030
and change that it was
very easy to get inspired
466
00:18:51.030 --> 00:18:52.350
by it and excited about it.
467
00:18:53.550 --> 00:18:56.610
The reality of doing
research is different.
468
00:18:56.610 --> 00:18:58.470
You know, it's up and down.
469
00:18:58.470 --> 00:19:01.620
It's, I spend most of
my time debugging code
470
00:19:01.620 --> 00:19:04.260
and not contemplating the
mysteries of the universe,
471
00:19:04.260 --> 00:19:07.110
but contemplating why this
Python routine won't run.
472
00:19:07.110 --> 00:19:10.020
And that's really much
more of what the job is.
473
00:19:10.020 --> 00:19:14.160
Right. - But I think that
that kind of innate curiosity
474
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:17.760
and excitement about
space is something that
475
00:19:17.760 --> 00:19:19.200
I try to hold onto.
476
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:20.310
Okay.
Yeah.
477
00:19:20.310 --> 00:19:22.290
Do you have a, do you
have a favorite galaxy?
478
00:19:22.290 --> 00:19:24.480
Like, you know, you
model the whole cosmos,
479
00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:26.610
but like, do you have a, do
you, do you have a pet favorite
480
00:19:26.610 --> 00:19:28.080
who, who's your special boy or girl?
481
00:19:28.080 --> 00:19:30.240
I do, I do have a little favorite.
482
00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.570
One of the things that I work
on is analyzing results from
483
00:19:33.570 --> 00:19:36.060
this new x-ray telescope called XRISM.
484
00:19:36.060 --> 00:19:38.310
It was launched a couple years ago.
485
00:19:38.310 --> 00:19:41.280
It's a combination
collaboration between JAXA
486
00:19:41.280 --> 00:19:43.680
the Japanese Space Agency and NASA.
487
00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:46.110
And so one of the galaxies
488
00:19:46.110 --> 00:19:48.690
that XRISM looked at is
this galaxy called M82.
489
00:19:48.690 --> 00:19:52.200
Okay. - Which is also known
as the cigar galaxy.
490
00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:53.760
'cause it kind of looks like a cigar.
491
00:19:53.760 --> 00:19:57.570
Okay. All right.
But when you look in different colors
492
00:19:57.570 --> 00:20:00.060
of light, so not just the
visible light our eyes can see,
493
00:20:00.060 --> 00:20:04.440
but lower wavelengths, higher
wavelengths of light, you see
494
00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:06.060
that there's a cigar
495
00:20:06.060 --> 00:20:10.290
and then there's these huge
outflows of material that's
496
00:20:10.290 --> 00:20:12.780
like so many different
temperatures, different phases
497
00:20:12.780 --> 00:20:15.390
of gas, really complex structures.
498
00:20:15.390 --> 00:20:18.900
And so it's a really interesting
case study for these sort
499
00:20:18.900 --> 00:20:20.430
of feedback processes.
500
00:20:20.430 --> 00:20:22.710
'cause in this case, these
outflows aren't driven
501
00:20:22.710 --> 00:20:24.390
by the supermassive black hole.
502
00:20:24.390 --> 00:20:26.520
They're driven by a ton of star formation
503
00:20:26.520 --> 00:20:29.220
that's happening in that
center of the cigar.
504
00:20:29.220 --> 00:20:31.680
Okay. - So you have a
bunch of supernova going off,
505
00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:33.750
you have a bunch of new stars being born
506
00:20:33.750 --> 00:20:35.700
and it's powering these huge winds.
507
00:20:35.700 --> 00:20:38.610
And so that's the one
galaxy that I actually study
508
00:20:38.610 --> 00:20:40.260
as an individual galaxy.
509
00:20:40.260 --> 00:20:41.850
Okay.
So you That's that's my favorite.
510
00:20:41.850 --> 00:20:43.505
It's your very special one.
Yes.
511
00:20:43.505 --> 00:20:46.440
Yes. Real basic question.
Borderline stupid.
512
00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:48.100
Why is it called M82?
513
00:20:48.100 --> 00:20:50.800
In the 1800s?
514
00:20:50.800 --> 00:20:53.165
There was this guy named
Charles Messier. - Okay.
515
00:20:53.165 --> 00:20:54.460
He was a French astronomer
516
00:20:54.460 --> 00:20:57.670
and he was really, really
interested in comets.
517
00:20:57.670 --> 00:20:59.770
So he really wanted to find comets.
518
00:20:59.770 --> 00:21:02.770
And he kept looking and
seeing these fuzzy things
519
00:21:02.770 --> 00:21:05.020
and getting excited because
he thought they were comets.
520
00:21:05.020 --> 00:21:06.760
And then he would look
and they just wouldn't
521
00:21:06.760 --> 00:21:08.082
move in the sky night
522
00:21:08.082 --> 00:21:09.003
after night. - Not a comet.
523
00:21:09.003 --> 00:21:10.270
He's like "Not a comet!"
524
00:21:10.270 --> 00:21:13.510
And so he made a giant
list of "Not a comet"
525
00:21:13.510 --> 00:21:15.805
and each one of them is numbered
526
00:21:15.805 --> 00:21:17.230
and we call them the
Messier objects. Okay.
527
00:21:17.230 --> 00:21:21.250
There's Messier 1, 2, 3... 82.
528
00:21:21.250 --> 00:21:24.670
How many did he find?
150...something?
529
00:21:24.670 --> 00:21:25.930
Good job, French guy.
530
00:21:25.930 --> 00:21:29.890
I mean a lot of them
are like other galaxies.
531
00:21:29.890 --> 00:21:32.920
A lot of them are nebula
star forming regions
532
00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:35.350
or a star that just died in the Milky Way.
533
00:21:35.350 --> 00:21:37.210
There's a lot of different objects.
534
00:21:37.210 --> 00:21:38.620
But for some reason
535
00:21:38.620 --> 00:21:41.470
that catalog has just kind
lasted through astronomy.
536
00:21:41.470 --> 00:21:43.450
So the M stands for messier.
537
00:21:43.450 --> 00:21:47.020
You'll hear a lot of M82,
M13, like there's a lot
538
00:21:47.020 --> 00:21:50.110
of these objects that have
a name that is M something
539
00:21:50.110 --> 00:21:52.780
and they're just "Not a comet number 82."
540
00:21:52.780 --> 00:21:54.070
What a legacy.
Yeah.
541
00:21:54.070 --> 00:21:56.099
Do you get to name
anything? Do you get to name
542
00:21:56.099 --> 00:21:57.137
Simul- I can name my
543
00:21:57.137 --> 00:21:57.970
simulations! - Okay.
544
00:21:57.970 --> 00:22:00.460
Yeah, so...
The Graysonator?
545
00:22:00.460 --> 00:22:04.420
No. - Oh. - The suite
that I've been working on...
546
00:22:04.420 --> 00:22:06.880
There's a lot of big kind
of simulations that are used
547
00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:08.020
by a lot of people out there.
548
00:22:08.020 --> 00:22:10.240
And one of the big ones is called SIMBA.
549
00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:12.670
as in like, the Lion King. - Simba.
550
00:22:12.670 --> 00:22:16.540
Exactly. And I have built
a new suite of simulations
551
00:22:16.540 --> 00:22:18.550
that plays around with
the physics in SIMBA.
552
00:22:18.550 --> 00:22:20.140
And I named it RAFIKI.
553
00:22:20.140 --> 00:22:21.670
Which is like the baboon.
554
00:22:21.670 --> 00:22:23.410
And I actually came up
with an acronym for it
555
00:22:23.410 --> 00:22:24.790
that I was really proud of.
556
00:22:24.790 --> 00:22:26.140
Did you start with RAFIKI
557
00:22:26.140 --> 00:22:27.490
and work your way backwards? I did.
558
00:22:27.490 --> 00:22:28.870
We call it a acronym.
559
00:22:28.870 --> 00:22:30.070
Oh yeah. That's exactly what it's, yeah.
560
00:22:30.070 --> 00:22:31.510
I mean,
scientists love to do that.
561
00:22:31.510 --> 00:22:32.920
And astronomy is full
562
00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:34.840
of terrible names and terrible acronyms.
563
00:22:34.840 --> 00:22:37.780
Okay. But RAFIKI kind of
makes sense within like,
564
00:22:37.780 --> 00:22:41.290
it's "Refining AGN Feedback in Kinetic Implementations,"
565
00:22:41.290 --> 00:22:42.790
which I'm sure sounds
like gibberish to you.
566
00:22:42.790 --> 00:22:46.360
But those are all words.
It, it does kind of relate to
567
00:22:46.360 --> 00:22:47.590
what I'm doing in the simulation
568
00:22:47.590 --> 00:22:48.965
suite, which I'm very proud of.
569
00:22:48.965 --> 00:22:51.610
I mean, well it's
RAFIKI good. I like that.
570
00:22:51.610 --> 00:22:53.050
It's good companion to SIMBA.
571
00:22:53.050 --> 00:22:56.920
Exactly.
If you enjoy conversations
572
00:22:56.920 --> 00:22:58.510
that spark curiosity
573
00:22:58.510 --> 00:23:01.360
and make science easy
to explore, check out
574
00:23:01.360 --> 00:23:05.618
Ask A Biologist, another
podcast from Arizona State University.
575
00:23:05.618 --> 00:23:10.360
Hosted by Charles Kazilek AKA Doctor Biology.
576
00:23:10.360 --> 00:23:12.940
Each episode invites
listeners into the wonders
577
00:23:12.940 --> 00:23:15.880
of the natural world from animal behavior
578
00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:18.160
and the human body to the big questions
579
00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:21.400
that scientists are asking
about life on earth in a way
580
00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:23.620
that is engaging, accessible,
581
00:23:23.620 --> 00:23:26.500
and fun for curious minds of all ages.
582
00:23:26.500 --> 00:23:27.910
Discover new episodes
583
00:23:27.910 --> 00:23:31.480
and explore hundreds of
science stories, activities,
584
00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:36.480
and resources at AskABiologist.asu.edu
585
00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:38.560
and wherever you get your podcasts.
586
00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:43.150
I want to, I want to
jump back to something
587
00:23:43.150 --> 00:23:47.900
'cause I'm, I'm still not
totally sure if I understand
588
00:23:47.900 --> 00:23:49.820
what you're actually
getting from the simulation.
589
00:23:49.820 --> 00:23:51.440
Like, what the output is.
590
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:54.290
Is it an image, is it a
bunch of things that say
591
00:23:55.310 --> 00:23:57.830
"black hole did this thing?" Like I -
592
00:23:57.830 --> 00:23:59.360
It's closer to that second thing.
593
00:23:59.360 --> 00:24:02.960
Okay.
So in the simulation we have a bunch of
594
00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:04.325
what we call particles.
595
00:24:04.325 --> 00:24:07.970
So there are black hole particles,
there are star particles,
596
00:24:07.970 --> 00:24:10.940
there's dark matter particles,
there's gas particles
597
00:24:10.940 --> 00:24:13.070
and there are trillions of these.
598
00:24:13.070 --> 00:24:16.430
And each particle we
get an output that says,
599
00:24:16.430 --> 00:24:19.220
here's the particle,
here's where it is, here's
600
00:24:19.220 --> 00:24:21.470
how quickly it's moving,
here's its temperature,
601
00:24:21.470 --> 00:24:23.090
it's pressure, it's mass.
602
00:24:23.090 --> 00:24:25.100
And so it's essentially just a list
603
00:24:25.100 --> 00:24:26.240
of the different particles in the
604
00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:27.240
simulation.
605
00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:29.865
A list trillions
of lines long?
606
00:24:29.865 --> 00:24:32.840
And different types of things
and different information.
607
00:24:32.840 --> 00:24:35.930
You know, some of these
were tracing what's the,
608
00:24:35.930 --> 00:24:39.020
how much hydrogen is in this
particle versus carbon versus
609
00:24:39.020 --> 00:24:41.300
oxygen versus there's so much information.
610
00:24:41.300 --> 00:24:43.490
So is it just like a crazy spreadsheet?
611
00:24:43.490 --> 00:24:44.490
Essentially,
612
00:24:44.490 --> 00:24:47.240
Yes. We don't store it in Excel
because Excel would break,
613
00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:49.370
but it is pretty much that.
614
00:24:49.370 --> 00:24:52.100
So there's a lot of tools
that can take that information
615
00:24:52.100 --> 00:24:54.770
and create actual scientific
products outta that.
616
00:24:54.770 --> 00:24:58.640
So we can make images, we
can say just create a map of
617
00:24:58.640 --> 00:24:59.750
where all the dark matter is
618
00:24:59.750 --> 00:25:02.540
and then you can see that we can say,
619
00:25:02.540 --> 00:25:05.090
well, here's all the gas,
we know its temperature
620
00:25:05.090 --> 00:25:07.790
and it's density that can
tell us about what sort
621
00:25:07.790 --> 00:25:09.350
of x-ray light it would emit.
622
00:25:09.350 --> 00:25:13.040
And so we can create a mock
image if we were to look at this
623
00:25:13.040 --> 00:25:14.840
with an x-ray telescope.
624
00:25:14.840 --> 00:25:16.460
Okay. - And so that's kind
of the stuff that I do
625
00:25:16.460 --> 00:25:19.190
where I create these mock
images, these mock data products,
626
00:25:19.190 --> 00:25:20.270
and then compare it to what we see
627
00:25:20.270 --> 00:25:21.350
with actual x-ray telescopes.
628
00:25:21.350 --> 00:25:22.670
So there's a, I mean there's a degree
629
00:25:22.670 --> 00:25:24.410
of artistry to what you're doing.
630
00:25:24.410 --> 00:25:25.490
Yeah.
In an interesting way.
631
00:25:25.490 --> 00:25:29.240
Yeah. There's definitely,
I think a lot of connection
632
00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:31.340
between science and art.
633
00:25:31.340 --> 00:25:35.390
I think you see it a lot more
in telescope data analysis.
634
00:25:35.390 --> 00:25:37.190
When you look at
the beautiful images
635
00:25:37.190 --> 00:25:39.260
that come from big telescopes like Hubble
636
00:25:39.260 --> 00:25:43.370
and James Webb, we are
assigning colors to the light.
637
00:25:43.370 --> 00:25:45.230
When we get an image from
a telescope, it's black
638
00:25:45.230 --> 00:25:48.180
and white, it's do we see light or not?
639
00:25:48.180 --> 00:25:50.720
And so when we take images in a lot
640
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:51.980
of different wavelengths of light,
641
00:25:51.980 --> 00:25:53.570
you can turn it into a picture,
642
00:25:53.570 --> 00:25:56.210
but you kind of have some
artistic freedom in terms of
643
00:25:56.210 --> 00:25:58.520
what colors are you assigning
to different wavelengths
644
00:25:58.520 --> 00:26:00.890
and how are you layering
these things together.
645
00:26:00.890 --> 00:26:05.660
And so it's very much a creative
artistic side of the field.
646
00:26:05.660 --> 00:26:07.340
This is a random one.
647
00:26:07.340 --> 00:26:09.680
Is there something very contentious
648
00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:12.110
that astrophysicists argue about?
649
00:26:12.110 --> 00:26:13.340
Oh yes. Oh my goodness.
650
00:26:13.340 --> 00:26:16.820
What's your favorite
astrophysicist slap fight?
651
00:26:16.820 --> 00:26:18.475
Yeah. There's a lot of beef in science.
652
00:26:18.475 --> 00:26:19.850
Yeah.
And it's kind of silly
653
00:26:19.850 --> 00:26:21.980
because it's a very, very small number
654
00:26:21.980 --> 00:26:24.230
of people who care about it,
but they care very, very deeply.
655
00:26:25.430 --> 00:26:28.910
One of the big ones is
the universe is expanding.
656
00:26:28.910 --> 00:26:30.860
Galaxies are moving away
from each other at a
657
00:26:30.860 --> 00:26:32.840
faster and faster rate.
658
00:26:32.840 --> 00:26:35.690
But depending on how you measure that,
659
00:26:35.690 --> 00:26:37.520
you get different numbers
660
00:26:37.520 --> 00:26:40.805
and the error bars on those
numbers don't overlap.
661
00:26:40.805 --> 00:26:42.080
And they're getting smaller and smaller
662
00:26:42.080 --> 00:26:43.950
and continuing to not overlap.
663
00:26:43.950 --> 00:26:47.430
So that's one of the biggest,
we call it the Hubble tension.
664
00:26:47.430 --> 00:26:51.330
The biggest tension in
astronomy is why are the error
665
00:26:51.330 --> 00:26:53.550
bars not overlapping?
666
00:26:53.550 --> 00:26:55.650
Who's doing something wrong?
667
00:26:55.650 --> 00:26:57.510
Are we wrong about
something very fundamental?
668
00:26:57.510 --> 00:27:00.450
Or is someone just not taking into account
669
00:27:00.450 --> 00:27:02.820
some process in their data analysis?
670
00:27:02.820 --> 00:27:05.850
So that is one that I have
seen people get actively heated
671
00:27:05.850 --> 00:27:09.600
about in public conferences on stage.
672
00:27:11.190 --> 00:27:14.820
And I think that that's
one that could hopefully,
673
00:27:14.820 --> 00:27:17.520
potentially be resolved
within the next five
674
00:27:17.520 --> 00:27:19.200
to 10 years as we get more data.
675
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:21.450
Cool. Where do you
come down on that then?
676
00:27:21.450 --> 00:27:25.140
I come down on science is hard
677
00:27:25.140 --> 00:27:28.620
and I don't think we
should be too attached
678
00:27:28.620 --> 00:27:30.660
emotionally to our results.
679
00:27:30.660 --> 00:27:33.600
And I think that following the data
680
00:27:33.600 --> 00:27:37.020
and being like right now with
all the information we have,
681
00:27:37.020 --> 00:27:38.220
these are the best error bars
682
00:27:38.220 --> 00:27:39.960
and the best fits that we can create.
683
00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:41.130
And they're different.
684
00:27:41.130 --> 00:27:43.530
And that's really interesting
and worth exploring why?
685
00:27:43.530 --> 00:27:46.110
But not worth telling other people
686
00:27:46.110 --> 00:27:48.060
that they're doing something wrong over
687
00:27:48.060 --> 00:27:49.710
unless there is actually an error
688
00:27:49.710 --> 00:27:51.930
that you can find, which no one has found.
689
00:27:51.930 --> 00:27:54.210
Boo. I'm so, I know
that's too, too diplomatic.
690
00:27:54.210 --> 00:27:56.040
I, - I want you to throw
someone under the bus.
691
00:27:56.040 --> 00:27:59.340
You know, I don't think
that that's a very good idea
692
00:27:59.340 --> 00:28:02.160
as I am just starting out my career.
693
00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:03.250
Okay, good point.
Want to want to
694
00:28:03.250 --> 00:28:04.530
keep those options open.
695
00:28:04.530 --> 00:28:07.200
I will start fights
with astronomers for you.
696
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:09.840
Perfect. - Because we are
anti astronomer on this show.
697
00:28:09.840 --> 00:28:13.530
I, uh, great. Thanks.
She's not gonna comment on that one.
698
00:28:13.530 --> 00:28:16.530
Nope. - And and until I have
an astronomer on the show,
699
00:28:16.530 --> 00:28:18.750
in which case I'll be anti astrophysicist.
700
00:28:18.750 --> 00:28:20.340
I like it.
And I'll throw you under the bus.
701
00:28:20.340 --> 00:28:21.340
Yes. And
Sorry, you,
702
00:28:21.340 --> 00:28:22.440
You know what? That's fair.
703
00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:24.240
Okay.
Yeah.
704
00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:27.060
You described people getting very heated
705
00:28:27.060 --> 00:28:28.650
about the Hubble tension.
706
00:28:28.650 --> 00:28:30.900
Right. Very important to those people.
707
00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:34.860
However, I would go out on
a limb and say astrophysics
708
00:28:34.860 --> 00:28:38.220
and astronomy does not
really affect daily lives.
709
00:28:38.220 --> 00:28:41.160
But why do you think that this kind
710
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:42.690
of research is still really important?
711
00:28:42.690 --> 00:28:44.550
Yeah,
Because I mean, from talking
712
00:28:44.550 --> 00:28:45.960
to you, you do think that!
713
00:28:45.960 --> 00:28:46.960
I do.
714
00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:48.450
I value it and I think that it is valuable
715
00:28:48.450 --> 00:28:52.350
and I think that there are
lot of different reasons why.
716
00:28:52.350 --> 00:28:54.900
The first is that when you
talk about astrophysics
717
00:28:54.900 --> 00:28:57.250
as a whole field, it's very, very broad.
718
00:28:57.250 --> 00:28:58.830
The sort of thing I do black holes
719
00:28:58.830 --> 00:29:00.660
and distant galaxies, very hard
720
00:29:00.660 --> 00:29:02.370
to find the direct relation to.
721
00:29:02.370 --> 00:29:04.050
But there are a lot of astrophysicists
722
00:29:04.050 --> 00:29:06.690
who study things like the solar cycle
723
00:29:06.690 --> 00:29:10.410
and solar activity, solar
flares, coronal mass ejections
724
00:29:10.410 --> 00:29:12.180
that pose a threat to Earth.
725
00:29:12.180 --> 00:29:15.090
Things like hunting
for near Earth objects,
726
00:29:15.090 --> 00:29:19.140
potentially dangerous asteroids,
very obviously important
727
00:29:19.140 --> 00:29:20.460
to pay attention to those things.
728
00:29:20.460 --> 00:29:22.860
And that is within the field of astronomy.
729
00:29:22.860 --> 00:29:26.280
I think that there is a
lot of technological growth
730
00:29:26.280 --> 00:29:27.960
that comes from astronomy,
731
00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:30.360
particularly when you
think about instrumentation
732
00:29:30.360 --> 00:29:33.540
and developing new fancy
telescopes with these very complex,
733
00:29:33.540 --> 00:29:37.140
sophisticated optics that can
have really great applications
734
00:29:37.140 --> 00:29:38.520
and a whole bunch of different things.
735
00:29:38.520 --> 00:29:41.800
We see it in the medical field, we see it in security,
736
00:29:41.800 --> 00:29:43.960
we see it all over the place.
737
00:29:43.960 --> 00:29:46.030
Similarly, we were talking about big data
738
00:29:46.030 --> 00:29:47.650
and I think that there is a lot
739
00:29:47.650 --> 00:29:50.260
of great research being done on just how
740
00:29:50.260 --> 00:29:53.440
to manage big data in
astronomy that is very useful
741
00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:55.600
for anything else that
deals with big data.
742
00:29:55.600 --> 00:29:57.730
Right.
Which is a lot of fields right now.
743
00:29:57.730 --> 00:29:59.290
Yes.
I think another benefit
744
00:29:59.290 --> 00:30:03.430
of it is you don't necessarily
know when things are going
745
00:30:03.430 --> 00:30:06.040
to become important down the line.
746
00:30:06.040 --> 00:30:10.090
An example of this that I
really like is relativity.
747
00:30:10.090 --> 00:30:13.750
So this idea that time behaves
differently depending on
748
00:30:13.750 --> 00:30:16.840
where you're at or how fast
you're moving, was kind
749
00:30:16.840 --> 00:30:20.920
of developed by Einstein
and very theoretical,
750
00:30:20.920 --> 00:30:22.690
You know, we're not
necessarily going to be able
751
00:30:22.690 --> 00:30:26.740
to see this, but actually
if we didn't know about
752
00:30:26.740 --> 00:30:30.040
that, GPS satellites wouldn't work. In order
753
00:30:30.040 --> 00:30:32.590
for our GPS satellites
to actually function,
754
00:30:32.590 --> 00:30:34.900
they have to account for
the relativistic change
755
00:30:34.900 --> 00:30:36.970
that's happening because
they're going so quickly
756
00:30:36.970 --> 00:30:38.260
around the Earth and
757
00:30:38.260 --> 00:30:40.870
because they're experiencing
a different gravitational pull
758
00:30:40.870 --> 00:30:42.970
than we are here on the surface.
759
00:30:42.970 --> 00:30:45.760
So the clocks on
GPS satellites are having
760
00:30:45.760 --> 00:30:48.100
to be constantly updated
to account for this sort
761
00:30:48.100 --> 00:30:50.290
of weird general relativity,
762
00:30:50.290 --> 00:30:53.590
special relativity physics stuff in order
763
00:30:53.590 --> 00:30:56.170
to actually function as GPS satellites.
764
00:30:56.170 --> 00:30:58.300
It's an example of how a very
765
00:30:58.300 --> 00:31:01.480
strange out there weird topic
can have practical effects
766
00:31:01.480 --> 00:31:02.950
that you wouldn't think about
767
00:31:02.950 --> 00:31:05.710
or you don't know are coming
down the line for humanity.
768
00:31:05.710 --> 00:31:08.170
The theory of relativity means
I don't get lost in my car.
769
00:31:08.170 --> 00:31:09.280
Exactly.
Cool.
770
00:31:09.280 --> 00:31:10.280
Yeah.
Alright.
771
00:31:10.280 --> 00:31:12.280
And I think the final thing,
772
00:31:12.280 --> 00:31:15.310
and the thing that drives me mostly
773
00:31:15.310 --> 00:31:17.470
is... astronomy
774
00:31:17.470 --> 00:31:18.640
and astrophysics is one
775
00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:21.280
of the more philosophical of sciences.
776
00:31:21.280 --> 00:31:23.530
It's really trying to answer
777
00:31:23.530 --> 00:31:26.170
the biggest questions
like, "why are we here?"
778
00:31:26.170 --> 00:31:29.530
"How did we come to be here?
What is in our future?"
779
00:31:29.530 --> 00:31:33.220
And I think that there is a lot of benefit
780
00:31:33.220 --> 00:31:35.590
to considering those questions
781
00:31:35.590 --> 00:31:39.190
and not minimizing them compared to some
782
00:31:39.190 --> 00:31:40.720
of the more practical things.
783
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:43.780
I think that there's a reason
humanity has always asked
784
00:31:43.780 --> 00:31:45.520
those questions and has always been driven
785
00:31:45.520 --> 00:31:47.320
to understand our place.
786
00:31:47.320 --> 00:31:51.310
And it's important to
foster that curiosity.
787
00:31:51.310 --> 00:31:53.560
And in fostering that curiosity,
788
00:31:53.560 --> 00:31:57.070
we see the ways in which
astronomy brings people together.
789
00:31:57.070 --> 00:31:59.230
It's a very, very popular science.
790
00:31:59.230 --> 00:32:00.970
People love learning about astronomy.
791
00:32:00.970 --> 00:32:02.920
People think space is really cool.
792
00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:05.020
It is.
And that both unites people.
793
00:32:05.020 --> 00:32:08.790
We see huge international
collaboration even just in the ISS
794
00:32:08.790 --> 00:32:11.650
on levels that we don't
see in most other fields.
795
00:32:11.650 --> 00:32:14.410
And we also see it being a main driver
796
00:32:14.410 --> 00:32:18.430
to get people into scientific
fields beyond just astronomy.
797
00:32:18.430 --> 00:32:22.600
So we see like Astronomy 101, a gen ed course, that's one
798
00:32:22.600 --> 00:32:25.030
of the most popular science courses
799
00:32:25.030 --> 00:32:26.740
that people take in college
800
00:32:26.740 --> 00:32:29.290
and it's also often
the last science course
801
00:32:29.290 --> 00:32:30.820
that people take in their entire life.
802
00:32:30.820 --> 00:32:33.280
And so there's a huge opportunity to help
803
00:32:33.280 --> 00:32:35.980
with science literacy, help
build trust in science,
804
00:32:35.980 --> 00:32:38.110
help get people excited about science
805
00:32:38.110 --> 00:32:39.950
that comes from caring about astronomy
806
00:32:39.950 --> 00:32:41.690
and fostering the field.
807
00:32:41.690 --> 00:32:43.220
Now I wanna talk about
science communication.
808
00:32:43.220 --> 00:32:44.780
Yeah.
You, you have,
809
00:32:44.780 --> 00:32:47.690
you've built an online
presence explaining astronomy
810
00:32:47.690 --> 00:32:49.460
and I guess astrophysics too, right?
811
00:32:49.460 --> 00:32:51.200
It's all, yes. It's
It that isn't I
812
00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:52.190
Truly, you can use them
813
00:32:52.190 --> 00:32:53.515
interchangeably. - Great.
It's okay. Yes.
814
00:32:53.515 --> 00:32:56.060
You, you have, you've
built online presence
815
00:32:56.060 --> 00:32:57.350
explaining space stuff
816
00:32:57.350 --> 00:32:58.610
Space. Yep.
817
00:32:58.610 --> 00:33:01.070
What made you wanna start
doing that in the first place?
818
00:33:01.070 --> 00:33:03.200
I started my first year of grad school
819
00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:06.350
and coming into grad school
was a very difficult time
820
00:33:06.350 --> 00:33:09.351
for me, frankly, like
it's a weird transition
821
00:33:09.351 --> 00:33:12.170
because being a grad student is not
822
00:33:12.170 --> 00:33:13.730
really like being a student.
823
00:33:13.730 --> 00:33:15.980
You'll take a couple of
classes in your first couple
824
00:33:15.980 --> 00:33:19.010
of years, but most of what
you're doing is research.
825
00:33:19.010 --> 00:33:21.410
And it's a very weird transition
826
00:33:21.410 --> 00:33:23.930
to go from being a full-time
student to being someone
827
00:33:23.930 --> 00:33:26.030
who is also technically a student,
828
00:33:26.030 --> 00:33:27.890
but is expected to do research.
829
00:33:27.890 --> 00:33:29.240
And you're starting all that off
830
00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:30.965
and it's, it was, it was a time
831
00:33:30.965 --> 00:33:34.700
And it was a time where I felt like I was losing sight
832
00:33:34.700 --> 00:33:38.330
of why I was doing this
in the first place.
833
00:33:38.330 --> 00:33:41.360
The life really became
about the debugging Python
834
00:33:41.360 --> 00:33:43.880
and less about "I'm studying astrophysics!"
835
00:33:43.880 --> 00:33:48.710
Yeah. - And so a lot of it
for me was a way to reconnect
836
00:33:48.710 --> 00:33:52.040
with my excitement to talk about just sort
837
00:33:52.040 --> 00:33:55.730
of the more fundamental
surface level things
838
00:33:55.730 --> 00:33:58.310
that got me interested in
the field in the first place.
839
00:33:58.310 --> 00:34:02.840
Build that energy back up, help
people find that energy too.
840
00:34:02.840 --> 00:34:04.880
And it was a creative outlet.
It's fun to make videos.
841
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:07.490
It's nice to do something that's not just
842
00:34:07.490 --> 00:34:10.010
Research when it comes
to science communication.
843
00:34:10.010 --> 00:34:12.950
What, what is harder for you?
844
00:34:12.950 --> 00:34:14.390
Learning the science
845
00:34:14.390 --> 00:34:16.940
or like actually explaining
it clearly to people
846
00:34:16.940 --> 00:34:20.030
who aren't specialists
because different challenges,
847
00:34:20.030 --> 00:34:23.810
but they both seem very difficult to me.
848
00:34:23.810 --> 00:34:27.590
I think that one of the
more difficult things has been
849
00:34:28.820 --> 00:34:32.030
trying to figure out
like what my goals are
850
00:34:32.030 --> 00:34:33.500
with the stuff I do online.
851
00:34:33.500 --> 00:34:36.470
How much of it is the
selfish trying to reconnect
852
00:34:36.470 --> 00:34:38.270
with the field, which is a part of it?
853
00:34:38.270 --> 00:34:41.210
How much of it is about
trying to inspire other people
854
00:34:41.210 --> 00:34:42.320
to be scientists?
855
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:44.840
How much is it about being open
856
00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:46.850
and kind of pulling back
the curtain on the process
857
00:34:46.850 --> 00:34:48.290
of being a scientist,
858
00:34:48.290 --> 00:34:50.060
because that's something I had no idea
859
00:34:50.060 --> 00:34:51.260
about going into grad school.
860
00:34:51.260 --> 00:34:53.150
I didn't know how much
coding was involved.
861
00:34:53.150 --> 00:34:56.510
And so showing people that,
showing people what it's like,
862
00:34:56.510 --> 00:34:59.510
how much of it is about
correcting misinformation online
863
00:34:59.510 --> 00:35:01.820
and sort of playing that role, how much
864
00:35:01.820 --> 00:35:04.880
of it is just teaching and
trying to get concepts out there.
865
00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:06.890
And that was a bigger
challenge for me is trying
866
00:35:06.890 --> 00:35:08.450
to figure out how to balance that
867
00:35:08.450 --> 00:35:12.590
and sort of really be intentional
about the videos I make
868
00:35:12.590 --> 00:35:14.360
and why I'm doing this.
869
00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:18.620
But for the most part, the
developing explanations
870
00:35:18.620 --> 00:35:20.870
was not too challenging
871
00:35:20.870 --> 00:35:23.960
because I was coming out of
undergrad where I was being,
872
00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:25.940
these things were being
explained to me constantly.
873
00:35:25.940 --> 00:35:27.800
And so I had seen it been done
874
00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:30.020
and it was just a matter of
sort of repackaging it into this
875
00:35:30.020 --> 00:35:31.280
social media format.
876
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:34.220
Okay. So a moment ago you mentioned
877
00:35:34.220 --> 00:35:35.750
correcting disinformation online.
878
00:35:35.750 --> 00:35:37.410
So I, I'm kind of curious,
879
00:35:37.410 --> 00:35:39.780
are there some common
misconceptions you've encountered
880
00:35:39.780 --> 00:35:41.760
regarding your field?
881
00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:44.190
I would think that there's
not even enough like general
882
00:35:44.190 --> 00:35:46.590
knowledge out there for
there to be misconceptions.
883
00:35:46.590 --> 00:35:48.240
I mean, you're talking about dark matter.
884
00:35:48.240 --> 00:35:49.770
It's like no one know, no, no.
885
00:35:49.770 --> 00:35:51.840
Normal person knows what
that means. I'm sorry.
886
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:54.330
I still don't know what it
means. I'm stuck on dark matter.
887
00:35:54.330 --> 00:35:56.850
I know, I, I have so many
regrets about bringing it up.
888
00:35:56.850 --> 00:35:58.260
Oh, you should.
It's gonna be okay.
889
00:35:58.260 --> 00:36:02.310
The, the main things tend
to be aliens. Oh, okay.
890
00:36:02.310 --> 00:36:04.380
You know, that's not my research focus.
891
00:36:04.380 --> 00:36:06.660
I have a lot of friends
who do exoplanet science.
892
00:36:06.660 --> 00:36:08.640
I communicate with a lot
of people who do that.
893
00:36:08.640 --> 00:36:10.620
There are a lot of flashy headlines
894
00:36:10.620 --> 00:36:14.070
that come out about
biosignatures being detected
895
00:36:14.070 --> 00:36:16.680
or the alien material being
896
00:36:16.680 --> 00:36:17.820
discovered - Unknown signals!
897
00:36:17.820 --> 00:36:21.720
Or this interstellar object
is an alien spacecraft.
898
00:36:21.720 --> 00:36:25.620
And that's a lot of the
stuff that's pretty easy.
899
00:36:25.620 --> 00:36:27.510
Okay.
To kind of combat, honestly,
900
00:36:27.510 --> 00:36:30.030
the black holes being vacuum
cleaners, that's a battle
901
00:36:30.030 --> 00:36:31.440
that I'm constantly fighting
902
00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:33.270
that we're not being sucked
into the black hole in
903
00:36:33.270 --> 00:36:34.290
the center of our galaxy.
904
00:36:34.290 --> 00:36:36.480
Okay. - That's something
that a lot of people kind
905
00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:37.530
of visualize.
906
00:36:37.530 --> 00:36:41.370
Yeah. - There's some stuff
that is more like fun like
907
00:36:41.370 --> 00:36:44.670
that and some stuff where
it's actively frustrating
908
00:36:44.670 --> 00:36:45.690
and kind of dangerous
909
00:36:45.690 --> 00:36:48.300
because people are getting
the wrong idea of like
910
00:36:48.300 --> 00:36:49.680
how science works
911
00:36:49.680 --> 00:36:52.860
and what we're actually
finding versus not.
912
00:36:52.860 --> 00:36:55.530
Do you think that scientists
have a responsibility
913
00:36:55.530 --> 00:36:57.600
to communicate and, okay.
914
00:36:57.600 --> 00:36:58.740
Can you tell me more about that?
915
00:36:59.580 --> 00:37:03.660
When you go into a scientific field,
916
00:37:03.660 --> 00:37:05.700
you are trained to do research.
917
00:37:05.700 --> 00:37:09.660
Number one. You are not often
918
00:37:09.660 --> 00:37:11.100
trained to teach.
919
00:37:11.100 --> 00:37:12.960
You are not often trained to communicate.
920
00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:14.610
And when you are, it's
normally communicating
921
00:37:14.610 --> 00:37:17.100
to other scientists. At the same time,
922
00:37:17.100 --> 00:37:19.020
especially in a field like astrophysics,
923
00:37:19.020 --> 00:37:22.620
a majority of our research
is funded by public money.
924
00:37:22.620 --> 00:37:26.430
And a majority of what comes out of
925
00:37:26.430 --> 00:37:30.450
that public funding is
peer-reviewed scientific papers
926
00:37:30.450 --> 00:37:33.480
that nobody can read, even if
you're in the field sometimes.
927
00:37:33.480 --> 00:37:36.090
And I think that that as
a system is broken.
928
00:37:36.090 --> 00:37:40.650
I think that that erodes
people's trust in science.
929
00:37:40.650 --> 00:37:41.790
I think that it leads to a lot
930
00:37:41.790 --> 00:37:44.460
of people not understanding
why things are worth
931
00:37:44.460 --> 00:37:46.200
funding in the first place.
932
00:37:46.200 --> 00:37:50.670
And I think that it is a very easy system
933
00:37:50.670 --> 00:37:53.100
for things like misinformation to happen
934
00:37:53.100 --> 00:37:56.640
because there's not a
lot of good information
935
00:37:56.640 --> 00:37:57.660
that is accessible
936
00:37:57.660 --> 00:37:59.430
and understandable by the public
937
00:37:59.430 --> 00:38:01.530
that can kind of counteract that.
938
00:38:01.530 --> 00:38:05.040
So I think that scientists
do have a responsibility
939
00:38:05.040 --> 00:38:08.940
to communicate their work with the public
940
00:38:08.940 --> 00:38:11.250
and in a way that is
interesting and engaging
941
00:38:11.250 --> 00:38:13.050
and fun and correct.
942
00:38:13.050 --> 00:38:15.750
I also recognize that that
is incredibly difficult to do
943
00:38:15.750 --> 00:38:17.610
and scientists are not trained to do it.
944
00:38:17.610 --> 00:38:21.810
Yeah. - And so I think that
there's a lot of opportunity
945
00:38:21.810 --> 00:38:23.700
for people who are trained to do that.
946
00:38:23.700 --> 00:38:28.380
You know, to bring public awareness to
947
00:38:28.380 --> 00:38:30.750
honestly like you're doing
here, try to have conversations
948
00:38:30.750 --> 00:38:33.480
with experts, but at a level
that people can understand,
949
00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:35.020
not necessarily having
950
00:38:35.020 --> 00:38:36.970
to come from the scientist on their own,
951
00:38:36.970 --> 00:38:38.170
but being helped by people
952
00:38:38.170 --> 00:38:40.810
who do have a background in
journalism or communication.
953
00:38:40.810 --> 00:38:43.510
I was curious if there's
any fiction out there
954
00:38:43.510 --> 00:38:48.430
that gets more right than it
gets wrong about astrophysics
955
00:38:48.430 --> 00:38:52.030
or if you just have some
like favorite movies
956
00:38:52.030 --> 00:38:54.940
that involve like a
black hole or something?
957
00:38:54.940 --> 00:38:58.600
Well, I have two issues.
Oh, okay.
958
00:38:58.600 --> 00:39:00.880
Not with that question. Personal issues.
959
00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:02.830
Sure.
The first is, I'm scared of space.
960
00:39:02.830 --> 00:39:05.320
I'm an astrophysicist. I
understand. That's ironic.
961
00:39:05.320 --> 00:39:08.410
I am not an astronaut. I have
no interest in going to space.
962
00:39:08.410 --> 00:39:09.820
Yeah. Space movies freak me out.
963
00:39:09.820 --> 00:39:11.500
Really?
Like watching Interstellar,
964
00:39:11.500 --> 00:39:14.350
I was like cowering, I don't,
965
00:39:14.350 --> 00:39:16.240
it's something about not
being able to breathe.
966
00:39:16.240 --> 00:39:19.060
I, so I don't watch a lot of space
967
00:39:19.975 --> 00:39:20.975
Media.
968
00:39:20.975 --> 00:39:21.808
Really? Interesting.
969
00:39:22.660 --> 00:39:25.180
I think that the other issue is like,
970
00:39:25.180 --> 00:39:28.810
I also don't read a lot of
sort of popular science books
971
00:39:28.810 --> 00:39:30.610
because it is my job.
972
00:39:30.610 --> 00:39:32.620
People often ask me for
book recommendations
973
00:39:32.620 --> 00:39:36.910
and I'm like, I do research
all day and then I come home
974
00:39:36.910 --> 00:39:38.650
and I make a video about astronomy.
975
00:39:38.650 --> 00:39:39.730
And then I am not about
976
00:39:39.730 --> 00:39:41.470
to pick up a book about astronomy too.
977
00:39:41.470 --> 00:39:43.750
Like I need to do something else.
978
00:39:43.750 --> 00:39:46.390
My life is not just science.
979
00:39:46.390 --> 00:39:51.160
And so I don't read a lot of
science books because yeah.
980
00:39:51.160 --> 00:39:52.690
It's just too much for me. Yeah.
981
00:39:52.690 --> 00:39:53.920
There are good ones out there.
982
00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:55.960
One I have read in the last five years
983
00:39:55.960 --> 00:39:58.300
that I would recommend
is, it's called The End
984
00:39:58.300 --> 00:39:59.860
of Everything by Katie Mack.
985
00:39:59.860 --> 00:40:03.280
And it's about how the
universe is going to end
986
00:40:03.280 --> 00:40:04.570
and she throws out different
987
00:40:04.570 --> 00:40:06.730
possibilities and it's a very fun read.
988
00:40:06.730 --> 00:40:10.060
Okay. Well that leads
me into my last question.
989
00:40:10.060 --> 00:40:11.500
Do you have, if anyone wants
990
00:40:11.500 --> 00:40:13.780
to learn more about astrophysics
991
00:40:13.780 --> 00:40:17.500
or just kind of get a
primer on black holes
992
00:40:17.500 --> 00:40:18.333
or stellar
993
00:40:18.333 --> 00:40:20.440
feedback, dark matter or anything
like dark matter, dark matter?
994
00:40:20.440 --> 00:40:22.095
Well, no, I, I,
995
00:40:22.095 --> 00:40:22.928
Sorry. No
996
00:40:22.928 --> 00:40:23.570
Dark matter.
997
00:40:23.570 --> 00:40:25.180
I reject you mentioning dark
matter. Sorry, one more time.
998
00:40:26.145 --> 00:40:28.720
If, if, if someone has to
learn more about astrophysics,
999
00:40:28.720 --> 00:40:29.800
what are some things you,
1000
00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:31.810
you would recommend other
than The End of Everything?
1001
00:40:31.810 --> 00:40:33.790
And it doesn't have to
be just astrophysics,
1002
00:40:33.790 --> 00:40:35.530
it could be something
that inspired you recently
1003
00:40:35.530 --> 00:40:38.020
or you know, you think is worthwhile
1004
00:40:38.020 --> 00:40:40.630
that took your mind off of debugging code.
1005
00:40:40.630 --> 00:40:42.285
Well, I'm gonna plug myself. - Please do.
1006
00:40:42.285 --> 00:40:46.270
Which is embarrassing, but I,
I do truly think that myself
1007
00:40:46.270 --> 00:40:48.100
and other scientists
1008
00:40:48.100 --> 00:40:51.460
who do social media content
do really cool things.
1009
00:40:51.460 --> 00:40:54.820
So I'm @SpaceAccordingtoSkylar on Instagram and TikTok
1010
00:40:54.820 --> 00:40:56.830
and YouTube, and you can
find all my stuff there.
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00:40:56.830 --> 00:40:59.380
And I think that it's a fun way
1012
00:40:59.380 --> 00:41:01.780
to just get little bite-sized pieces
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00:41:01.780 --> 00:41:04.090
of science throughout your day.
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00:41:04.090 --> 00:41:07.240
There are really good
science writers out there.
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00:41:07.240 --> 00:41:10.300
One in particular, a
blog called Starts With a
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00:41:10.300 --> 00:41:12.010
Bang by Ethan Siegel.
1017
00:41:12.010 --> 00:41:13.240
It does a really great job
1018
00:41:13.240 --> 00:41:15.040
of breaking down astronomy concepts
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00:41:15.040 --> 00:41:17.200
and like recent space news.
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00:41:17.200 --> 00:41:18.760
And so I would also recommend that
1021
00:41:18.760 --> 00:41:22.150
I'll put all your socials in
the show notes as
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00:41:22.150 --> 00:41:25.180
as well as Starts With A
Bang and The End of Everything.
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00:41:25.180 --> 00:41:27.610
Skylar, thank you so much
for coming on the show,
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00:41:28.750 --> 00:41:32.530
dark matter discussion
aside. I really enjoyed this.
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00:41:32.530 --> 00:41:33.920
This was great. Thank you for having me.
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00:41:37.130 --> 00:41:39.800
Thanks for tuning in.
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00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:42.080
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1028
00:41:42.080 --> 00:41:43.460
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00:41:43.460 --> 00:41:45.745
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we'd appreciate a like
1030
00:41:45.745 --> 00:41:48.020
and subscribe. Lab Coat
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00:41:48.020 --> 00:41:50.390
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1032
00:41:50.390 --> 00:41:53.090
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00:41:53.090 --> 00:41:54.350
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1034
00:41:54.350 --> 00:41:57.530
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00:41:57.530 --> 00:42:00.560
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00:42:00.560 --> 00:42:03.410
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00:42:03.410 --> 00:42:05.120
so wear your PPE.
1038
00:42:05.120 --> 00:42:07.430
Until next time, stay curious.