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A lot of what can get people into trouble is success.
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To a degree, I think of opportunity.
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Just think of a big tank.
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It's completely waterproof and airproof, but there's two holes.
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The more opportunity that comes into the tank, the greater the velocity at which you can charge your prices and the greater the level of stuff that you can get away with.
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Everybody has intellectual property.
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It's what they have that allows them to mechanically get a desired outcome for themselves.
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That could be massively valuable if in the hands of somebody else.
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Before we start this week's episode, I have one little favor to ask you.
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Can you please leave a five-star rating below, so we can help more people every single week.
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Thank you.
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The most important thing that you can do is spread ideas with your content and then, if people want to chat to you about those ideas, then you have something of profitable merit.
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Give an example.
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Yeah, so you might be just like hey, I've come up with this cool new idea to use AI to reduce the amount of time that I spend in my Gmail inbox, right, and then put your hand up and and comment pdf if you want the two-page pdf that I've put together to show you how to do it.
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Everybody that comments pdf has invested a microsecond to type pdf, which infers that one to five percent of those people would be willing to transact on that idea.
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And then, out of those one to five percent, like we were discussing with james the other day, if you've got a hundred of those, there's arguably one to five percent of that one to five percent who are willing to invest ten to fifty thousand dollars to solve that problem and then, from an odds perspective, you're looking to ramp that because the one percent of ten people is much better to get one percent of ten thousand people yeah, yeah, so then.
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So then the game becomes how do we economically manipulate the front end so that we can break even, so that we can, like by a factor of ten, increase the search base?
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So, instead of and that's that's why there's so much opportunity in the market is because most people are looking at oh well, you know, if I reach out to 100 people, um, and only one percent of them's interested, that's, that's a heap of work and it's like, yeah, but not if you can figure out how to build a paid traffic engine that allows you to get in front of 100 000 people a day.
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That pays for itself.
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Now, those 15 people, instead of taking a year to find them, you can find them in a week, you know okay, man, this is super interesting.
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We're just trying to deepen.
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So how do you?
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Because ads is still super new and novel to me.
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You'll love this.
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Um will brown.
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Yeah, he was like teaching me like to run ads and shit and uh, I went through like his program and stuff, just like specifically to learn ads Cause we never have done it.
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But now we have the capital to do it because the business is validated, especially the coaching, it's valid to do it.
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Anyway, he was kind of recommending going to a few to add agencies and like some of them are super expensive, but he like recommended me to do it, but he wasn't forcing it.
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He was, but he like recommended me to do it, but he did, he wasn't forcing, he was like it's already, it's a good idea, and I was like, oh yeah, it's fine, whatever, I'll just figure it out.
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Set up the google account, one second later suspended, really one second later, dude, probably because you're fresh, I don't know and the reason being was because the card was a digital bank card, yeah, and it was based in ireland or lithuania, where the bank is registered, and, um, yeah, google just goes goodbye on that and I was like fuck sake, dude, that was actually like last week.
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So the reason I'm saying this is because, like, I've learned the concepts, obviously in implementing or whatever, but then there's all those nuances yeah so when you are running your ads, how do you think about what to give them on the back end?
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is it a lead magnet?
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Is it a low ticket offer?
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How do you think about that process?
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Yeah, so this episode of kickoff sessions is sponsored by 10 plus.
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I've been using 10 plus in a hot tropical climate for electrolytes, for also hydration.
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it's really just trying to start the conversation.
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And the best thing you can do with the front end ad well, like you obviously have to start at the conversation and the best thing you can do with the front end ad well, like you obviously have to start at the back and go what are you actually selling?
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What's the high ticket thing?
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Is it services?
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Is it like a project process?
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Is it training or coaching?
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And then ask yourself, what is the one immediate, quickest wing that you can give to people that's hyper-tangible in the shortest timeframe, and you pull that out and that's generally the best lead magnet.
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So then the more valuable that thing is, the better.
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And then you end up with hey, this is $100 product on the front end.
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We will get you this outcome in the next week if you just follow the instructions in this.
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And then what that allows people to do is have a win and that's probably more important, engineer a product that gets people a win on the front end.
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And if you can just break even on selling that offer, then you have all of these people that you're getting wins.
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They want to continue the conversation, so you don't even have to worry about it connecting so much.
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Just get somebody a win on the front so you might be helping somebody with like a podcast and you might be like here's how to build the structure for the next 60 episodes of your podcast in less than two hours.
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So that's super tangible.
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It doesn't have to be exactly perfect, but at least they're like man.
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I'm going to see my next 60 episodes and the name of my podcast when at the moment I've got nothing but the intent to do so.
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At least you've kind of got them to an outcome, and then they associate all that progress to you.
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So it's only natural that the conversation advances with you in the picture.
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Fuck man.
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That's super interesting, because I would think that it would just be you'd get them into some sort of VSL and then it's you're hammering them for the high ticket approach yeah, or you have a sales team or whatnot.
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Now, obviously, there's no one way to do things, but the way that you kind of scale.
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It's really good and we can talk about your offer too.
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I want to actually ask you about a random question first, though.
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Yeah, go explain to me the bank robbery in chicago story.
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Uh-huh, yeah and I mean I've, I've.
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I forget the origins of it, but that's so funny that you found that.
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I don't even know how you found it, but it's, it's, it's.
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It's just a really simple story that, if you continually remember it, everything is really simple.
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So, basically, I think 1890s.
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Every time I tell this story I probably get the the time, the timing right.
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It's 1880s to 1890s.
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Um, there was a guy running around chicago robbing banks and they caught him after the the fourth or fifth go and they had him in in the jail cell and they're like why do you keep robbing these banks?
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And he just answered because that's where the money is.
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And I like, I like to, I like to bring it up with everybody that I'm helping, um, both in my design business and obviously with the coaching program as well, because people forget that the most important thing is where is the money actually located?
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So another metaphor to think about is business is the game of extracting oil out of the ground.
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It's like where is it so that we can extract it?
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And generally technicians and people that love their craft work really hard at building the engineering equipment to get the stuff out of the ground, to the point that they lose focus on where the fucking oil is, and it's it's the people that know where the oil is and it's the people that know where to set up that make the real money.
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So if, if you've got a 10 out of 10 ability to find oil reserves and you've got a bucket, you will make 100x uh versus a company that are the best engineering company extracting oil from the ground, who don't know where to put it that's so powerful man, and that's the beauty of selling something before building it yeah which, again, I learned from william right was that I would come up with a hypothesis or what I was doing in the podcast space when we had done for you is different because, like you can't ask someone what they want, right, but in the coaching you can build it around what they want.
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So remember, I booked 50 calls, took all 50, asked everyone what they're struggling with, said I could solve every single problem, wrote it down the spreadsheet and just created a video around it.
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Yeah, that's literally how it happened and then what's what people, where people were, which is in like, linkedin and just going towards that.
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Now we are opening up instagram because I think for one-off payments there's a good opportunity for people on instagram because they're kind of younger demographic.
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Yeah, whereas, like for me, all, like the c-suite executives were all in linkedin for the first two years for a business, um, so again it's like.
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This is an interesting point which I have had to gone around to.
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You know, in the online space, everyone is like they have these hard beliefs that they don't even believe.
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Is it ads, organic agency versus coaching, sales calls, no sales calls.
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But they attach their self-worth to that random process.
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It's not even an outcome, it's just a fucking process.
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And then they're like oh, we're not going to do sales calls because we're like better than that, or we're not going to run ads because we're better than that.
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My thesis, especially if you're like broke and you're trying to make as much money as possible that's what you're optimizing for is that you need to have no personal like ties to any of these metrics.
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Yeah, just view them as individual vessels.
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So, again, you know, going where the money is at, guys will be like oh, I want to focus on instagram because I can also use it for dating.
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Genuinely, that's people's brains, right where it's like no, if you go to your virtue signaling woke linkedin account, that's where you can make a ton of money, but you're just too proud to go over there.
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Yeah, and I've had that debate with a lot of twitter guys, so it's fucking so funny.
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I've been in like the podcast content space for a long time, much longer than I was like an entrepreneur, so I was like content first and that, and I had met a lot of the really big guys on twitter and they were all like oh, like linkedin's so gay.
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And I was dude, like your business would just be so much bigger if you were just on LinkedIn.
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And they're like oh, yeah, I don't know whatever Slowly but surely every single one of them started to move over, move over, move over.
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Now to the point that they're actually bigger on this platform, making way more money, and Twitter is like something that's just a hobby.
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Yeah, and it's just ironic because, like, even the guys at the very, very top of the game still don't follow where the money trails are right.
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And Sean Haniff said that to me.
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He was like, at the end of the day.
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Your only job as a CEO is to wake up, see where the money is and just go towards it every day.
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Yeah, and that's the hard thing, though, is that every trail and habit of activities builds an identity that becomes calcified, and then every time, even though the logic in your head can be like oh well, this, this is just blatantly obvious, a better thing to do, it's like, but I'm already this person and yeah and that's.
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That's like that.
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That was the toughest thing for me, like the.
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The reason it took me like eight years to get my ass into gear is because I was holding too much onto the ego of trying to become a rock star designer.
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And then the minute you're like the minute you kind of hit rock bottom and go well, fuck, there's no pot of gold at the end of this.
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It's way too much effort for such a minimal return.
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When you get to that, that, like rock bottom component, it's like well, I'm happy to construct with whatever meaningful things there are in front of me now because I've broken the old model.
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I understand that the old model won't be a vehicle to get me to where I am.
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So a lot of what can get people into trouble is success to a degree, and that's why a lot of really successful entrepreneurs are super sporadic and they can pivot, because they understand that the vehicles that they're building, like a bike, can only go so fast, a motorcycle can only go so fast, a Ferrari can only go so fast.
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You're not going to be able to get to supersonic speed, being the best peddler of a push bike.
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So true man.
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And so, like that's the annoying thing.
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So, like you know, like, as awesome as it was to go to James' mastermind, it's also.
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They're like oh fuck, I'm starting from scratch again.
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In what way?
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Well, the existing model isn't the model that's going to get me to the next level of where I want to get to.
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It has flaws.
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So so let's, especially for people and for myself, like so, mod, you have right now what's the offer and what you were doing at a high level and then where do you want to get to and like what's that offer?
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Stock and lifestyle look like yeah.
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So like I'll give you like just a bit context.
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So I've got a design studio that's Australian-based, that we do probably 60 to 100 grand a month and that's just purely ads and email outreach to Chinese manufacturers and that does pretty well.
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But the problem with it it doesn't scale because of the amount of complexity, like the tooling and the, the setup cost for like even an arm like this for this podcast can cost like 300 400 grand and if you make a mistake you're liable as the designer and the person being responsible for the manufacturer so it's a very you're not even a designer, you're an engineer.
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Yeah, well, it's design and engineering, like an industrial designer is, is hey, we've got this cool idea for a product.
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We boom, make 10 000 of them, and our job is to design it and then figure out how it actually gets produced in the factory.
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So it's, it's very fun, it's very rewarding, but it's it's a horrible business model to scale because of the amount of risk associated.
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The minute you juggle five or six projects, you can easily make a mistake, and you know, I've made a couple of mistakes that have cost us a quarter of a million dollars.
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So it scares.
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It's like, oh man, and I'm not even in Australia.
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So it's like, how do you mitigate the risk?
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Well, you only work on one or two projects at a time.
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Okay, cool, that business model can't go any further because I live in bali.
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Um, how do we, how do we figure out how to take advantage of the intellectual property that I've acquired?
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Well, you know, profitable design is a byproduct of people, um, me reaching out, trying to get other, more people, to work for us and and kind of contract to my design business.
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Them going, nah, but how the hell did you get so busy?
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So then, that's what provided the motivation to be like there's a opportunity here to sell the ip of how I built this whole thing.
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Um, so we got, we sell, uh, an eight to ten thousand dollar training program um 25, five to thirty six thousand dollar, um private coaching, and then a a massive array of like hundred, hundred to two hundred dollar products that we run ads to.
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Um, what was that?
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What was the rest of the question?
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like how does that uh piece in terms of the operating model, where but where you want to get to?
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Also from a lifestyle perspective?
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So, let's say, profitable designer, with the A-tick, a-thousands and the higher approach and the lower approach, whatever what's the workload that you're doing right now and how intensive is that and how much does it bear a cost on you personally as well?
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Yeah, like it's only both businesses combined are probably only 30 hours a week, but 15 hours of that 30 is like doing stuff that sucks.
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It's like dealing with.
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It's basically just the nature of the problems that arise if that makes sense.
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Slack becomes a problem solving solving machine versus anything else well like, but basically what what ends up happening is like the more momentum that I've created in a business that basically all of the staff that I pay get to deal with all the things that are working well, but my job is to fix all the things that break.
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So the credit card breaking down with facebook or um us getting like mass spammed on the email and and all of our emails stop communicating.
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There's no individual person in the team that can solve these very fluid thinking problems.
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So you spend most of your time basically just maintaining the machine, because most things aren't supposed to work at scale Like even a lot of software like Stripe, doesn't work at scale.
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You start running into issues.
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If a couple of people provide, you know, request refunds, then they start to put like a couple of people provide, you know, request refunds, then they start to put like a question mark over your account even though we've got, like you know like, probably twelve and a half thousand transactions, and then ads start to capitulate when you spend so much, and then payments overseas to contractors and and dealing with international money laundering rules if somebody's in south america.
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So you, you spend most of your time dealing with the byproduct of, of the success of what you've built, and and it and it becomes more coagulated as you progress.
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So what?
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What it is is the realization of oh, we have to rebuild, based on everywhere where the business is coagulating and kind of calcifying, if that makes sense and that's the awesome thing about you know, like meeting up with you a couple of weeks ago, for that mastermind was understanding that there's a way, more effective way, to build everything with fewer moving parts to get a better outcome in considerably less time.
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Would you do it all on your own, or are you still going to do it in a small team?
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I'm going to keep the team the same because I'm like super lucky with who's in the team.
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So you know, we've got three people here, and then we've got a salesperson, and then we've got, and then a setter, and then we've got two people that do outreach for the design business, and then obviously the design team in China and then obviously the design team in China.
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It's it's keeping the team the same, but it's changing the, the actual products and the services and the price points.
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That's where the vast majority of the change is going to come from.
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Yeah, cause again, we go back to the bicycle, motorbike, fucking Ferrari example.
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It's not like you're going back to zero.
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And this is what's interesting is that, for me, I used to always think that we'd have done, we've done for you offer, which is like our hero offer, and I would think that if we're adding in something else, I'm splitting focus, diluting focus.
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I'm doing two different things, but in theory we're still doing the same thing, which is we're making podcasts easy to grow, but we're just solving the problem differently and then, by unbundling and unbundling and unbundling, we're getting a higher return for the, for the pieces that we're unbundling.
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Does that make sense?
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Totally, but you have to spend the three, four years or the eight years or whatever to get to that point so that now you can run an almost simpler, more efficient side offer.
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You know, and like, in theory, if I was to go full james kemp, I'd get rid of the done for you, but I don't want to because of the fact that it makes so much money.
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Yeah, and it's a different model, like it's reoccurring high ticket, reoccurring high ticket every single month.
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You might not get a thousand people in there, but you don't need a thousand people in that 5k a month?
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Right?
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No, totally where, totally when it's like for me.
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The way I think about it is that the offer stack is to capture the economic model of everywhere else, but with just less time involved.
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You know, and also you've got to think about this way too.
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Because you've done a very intensive all-in business done for you and all the components, you now can just run this miniature business within a business just much more effectively, because you've done something really complicated, whereas if you started out just with a fucking community and whatnot there's no one there you would also find that very difficult.
00:21:40.750 --> 00:21:41.361
Does that make sense?
00:21:41.520 --> 00:21:45.750
yeah, because you didn't learn like real operational skills yeah to run a business.
00:21:45.750 --> 00:21:52.587
That's why a lot of these guys who are like core sellers have never ran an actual organization, with problems to stripe and stuff.
00:21:52.587 --> 00:21:54.271
Yeah, my question for your dad is off.
00:21:54.271 --> 00:21:58.636
This is if you are running a simpler model, does that not mean that you still have problems though?
00:21:59.219 --> 00:22:03.307
yeah, you, you have problems, but they're not.
00:22:03.307 --> 00:22:07.974
You're just picking the problems that you want.
00:22:07.974 --> 00:22:11.968
And I think, yeah, you really.
00:22:11.968 --> 00:22:22.185
It's like the idea you can put somebody we're joking the other day, you can live in Bali, your problems don't go away.
00:22:22.185 --> 00:22:26.681
You end up complaining about oh man, man, why does it take so long to get go jack?
00:22:26.681 --> 00:22:27.603
Yeah, to get go jack.
00:22:27.603 --> 00:22:32.181
Why does it take so long for somebody to cook my food and deliver it to my house?
00:22:33.103 --> 00:22:38.542
Um, at at a fifth of the cost that it would in the western world, you know, I mean, well, it's the same in business.
00:22:38.542 --> 00:22:46.101
You, you've got the same dispersion of of things that you're grateful for and the things that you're not, the things that annoy you.
00:22:46.101 --> 00:22:51.009
You've kind of got to pick your poison, but I think it's.
00:22:51.009 --> 00:23:01.193
It's trying to determine what problems actually take a hit on the energy and what problems are actual fun problems to solve.
00:23:01.193 --> 00:23:16.843
If that makes sense, yeah, so the the reshuffling of the deck chairs and building from scratch again allows you to build a model that avoids a lot of where too much emotional energy is being sucked away.
00:23:16.843 --> 00:23:18.326
If that makes sense.
00:23:18.326 --> 00:23:19.929
100, it makes perfect sense.
00:23:20.169 --> 00:23:38.375
Um, and and that to me is more important and in the same way, like I've always been a massive believer that if you follow, if you just figure out how to get people incredible outcomes, somehow money will follow you.
00:23:38.375 --> 00:23:41.746
But it's also like the same idea.
00:23:41.746 --> 00:23:52.770
It's like if you just figure out how to invest all of your time into something that you're absolutely buzzed about doing, like attention, eyeballs and money will follow you.
00:23:52.770 --> 00:24:13.528
And if you can get both of those things, if it can be like provide people with insane customer experiences to the point where they're like crying and ecstatic on a Zoom call when you ask them a few questions and you feel like there's not one part of your day that's emotionally a sacrifice, then that's the best version of the business model.
00:24:14.700 --> 00:24:15.704
And that's like think about it.
00:24:15.704 --> 00:24:19.579
Like how the fuck is anybody making money off podcasts?
00:24:19.579 --> 00:24:21.046
It's just recording audio.
00:24:21.046 --> 00:24:21.828
It's so stupid.
00:24:21.828 --> 00:24:31.000
But what happens is people are passionate about their topics and then people pay attention to what people are passionate about and attention equals money.
00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:31.863
Yeah, man.
00:24:31.863 --> 00:24:41.076
So yeah, like you've really just got to cut everything that you don't like and it's very interesting when you compare done for you versus done with you.
00:24:41.176 --> 00:24:51.422
I feel like done for you is such a scapegoat people use you as an excuse for their like failures and then done with you is much more like collaborative, but it's almost like an ethos.
00:24:51.422 --> 00:25:00.071
Basically, when you know you're going into a coaching effect program, you know that this person is not going to create the funnel for me, yeah, and not be a scapegoat.
00:25:00.071 --> 00:25:06.609
So this is a different and we can get to boundaries as well, which I just want to ask you about, but it's about I don't know.
00:25:06.609 --> 00:25:08.313
It's almost like their expectation of you.
00:25:08.313 --> 00:25:09.315
So let me ask you about that.
00:25:09.315 --> 00:25:09.760
I want to.
00:25:09.760 --> 00:25:10.786
So you're.
00:25:10.786 --> 00:25:17.290
I saw one of your posts which is like in a building, like a 1 million dollar design business, in like 10 hours or less a week.
00:25:17.290 --> 00:25:22.625
How do you do that from a time manager perspective and then setting the boundaries and expectations with a client?
00:25:23.166 --> 00:25:23.406
Yeah.
00:25:23.406 --> 00:25:30.926
So I've taken everything from the coaching and consulting environment and applied it to the design space.
00:25:30.926 --> 00:25:36.500
So it all just comes down to priming and the content people see before they start an engagement.
00:25:36.500 --> 00:25:45.346
So the greater the demand that you can create for your business and, like I think of opportunity.
00:25:45.346 --> 00:25:47.151
Just think of a big tank.
00:25:47.151 --> 00:25:51.089
It's completely waterproof and airproof, but there's two holes.
00:25:51.089 --> 00:26:02.691
The more opportunity that comes into the tank, the greater the velocity at which you can charge your prices and the greater the level of stuff that you can get away with.
00:26:03.863 --> 00:26:16.383
So if you have 10 units of time on your calendar but you've got 300 units of demand on that time, you can basically do whatever the hell you want, right?
00:26:16.522 --> 00:26:26.628
So by creating an overabundance of opportunity, you can be like this this is where my capability starts and where it ends.
00:26:26.628 --> 00:26:29.048
If you want to go beyond this, that's completely fine.
00:26:29.048 --> 00:26:42.326
Here's the invoice for that and that that's by far the easiest way to think about it is be super, super clear with everything that you're willing to do and only do things especially from, like, a service delivery standpoint.
00:26:42.326 --> 00:26:46.054
Only do things that you've already cost engineered out.
00:26:46.054 --> 00:26:53.865
So if you think about like Musk spent three years working on the factory floor at Tesla.
00:26:53.865 --> 00:26:54.188
Why?
00:26:54.188 --> 00:27:02.384
Because their biggest problem was they were spending time, effort and engineering resource into parts that shouldn't have actually been in the car.
00:27:02.384 --> 00:27:22.525
So only offer your clients something that you've cost engineered, that you know you're going to be profitable, delivering even from a done-for-you standpoint and then everything that fits outside of that clearly state we can do that, but it's marked up at this rate because we haven't figured that thing out.
00:27:22.525 --> 00:27:23.849
Does that make sense?
00:27:23.849 --> 00:27:25.770
Yeah, marked up at this rate, because we haven't figured that thing out.
00:27:25.790 --> 00:27:26.592
Does that make sense.
00:27:26.592 --> 00:27:28.292
Yeah, so you, you put up paywalls.
00:27:28.292 --> 00:27:45.574
Every time there's going to be an operational bottleneck with delivering something, you just provide a paywall and you, you figure out what's the core offer, that that it's going to be applicable to, to 90 of the, which I'm sure maybe comes down to three or four steps.
00:27:45.574 --> 00:27:54.688
But then there's like another 20 things that you could do that they expect and be like, yeah, I can do those things, but that's an extra two grand a month.
00:27:54.688 --> 00:28:12.895
And then what you'll find is people like we don't need that, and the only reason people create like sticky situations with like done-for-you client relationships is because they haven't defined the terms of the agreement enough.
00:28:12.895 --> 00:28:30.757
So, like you're from, obviously, the UK, or like you know, ireland, like it's, you'll notice that there's a lot of companies over there that purely operate off the definition of their legal terms on how they transact with you as the customer.
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:37.843
So think of all of those like 10-day loan shark opportunities.
00:28:37.843 --> 00:28:42.593
The only way that they get away with a business like that is because their legal documentation is rock solid.
00:28:42.593 --> 00:28:46.667
That's how you need to think about your business as well, or anybody does is.
00:28:46.667 --> 00:29:09.413
You need to create legal documentation that clearly stipulates where you said you're going to start and where you're going to end, so that there's never any loss of expectation or feature creep, and where, the minute that somebody is like, oh, I thought you were doing this, it's like we can do that, but, as you can see stated here, it's not in the offer that you paid for, but we're happy to do it.
00:29:09.413 --> 00:29:17.487
I can send you through the invoice and what you'll find is, by putting paywalls up, you incentivize people to behave the way that you intended to.
00:29:17.487 --> 00:29:21.156
So we see a lot of people.
00:29:21.156 --> 00:29:37.926
Their whole business breaks down just because they don't have contracts that clearly stipulate where the start and the end of the engagement is how can you elegantly convey that back to a client without kind of jeopardizing the relationship?
00:29:39.108 --> 00:29:39.409
well you.
00:29:39.409 --> 00:29:40.431
It's.
00:29:40.431 --> 00:29:50.269
It's less about the ones that maybe you've tainted and going okay, how do we prevent this situation ever from happening again?
00:29:50.269 --> 00:30:08.923
And it's getting to a point where you've got an itemized breakdown where, if phase one in the process of helping them out is like a PDF, it's like you'll get a PDF that's 20 to 25 pages long that has these seven sections in it and these seven sections have these in it.
00:30:08.923 --> 00:30:15.462
That way, when they receive that, it is very obvious that they've received exactly that.
00:30:15.462 --> 00:30:24.584
And now you've done so instead of vaguely pointing somebody in a direction of we're going to set your podcast up.
00:30:25.005 --> 00:30:36.324
It's literally doing an itemized breakdown like it's a ikea step-by-step assembly instruction because I think for our podcast that's been very easy to do is for me like there's only like four or five points and it's fine it's.
00:30:36.324 --> 00:30:42.586
It's within a vertical because it's like a machine we set up but with the offers we build on the back of clients.
00:30:42.586 --> 00:30:46.032
So we'd build a lot of their coaching programs or whatever.
00:30:46.032 --> 00:30:59.584
In our business model that can get a little bit hairy because, let's say, we're creating a VSL and the guy was meant to create the VSL, but then it needs to be edited and then it's like fuck, if we don't edit it it's going to be shit, and then we have to bring that in.
00:30:59.584 --> 00:31:00.448
So that makes sense.
00:31:10.660 --> 00:31:14.673
And I don't mind editing it because, like, our editors are dialed, but it's still just a concept of like oh yeah, you know, but that's that's where the contract has conditional logic.
00:31:14.673 --> 00:31:16.439
So it's like we'll produce the, the vsl, for you and, like, give you the guidelines for it.
00:31:16.439 --> 00:31:18.806
If you want us to edit it, here's the consequence of that.
00:31:18.806 --> 00:31:21.721
If you don't want us to edit it, here's the consequence.
00:31:21.721 --> 00:31:22.442
You'll have to do that.
00:31:22.442 --> 00:31:32.232
So you have to get to the point where there's a conditional logic framework for for every way that a client could transact with you.
00:31:32.232 --> 00:31:37.641
That's the only way to prevent that, because then you can just be like and this is, this was what happens in law.
00:31:37.641 --> 00:31:45.567
It's like if you refer to 8.2, what you'll find is is that you agreed to this particular clause.
00:31:45.567 --> 00:31:48.201
Therefore, there is no argument because it's already.
00:31:48.482 --> 00:32:03.946
It's already been documented I think where this becomes a slippery slope is that nothing is a problem until it's a massive problem is because people are trying to get people on contracts or recurring payments with very little documentation, very little outlining the offer, just the basics and the high level stuff.
00:32:03.946 --> 00:32:12.545
Yeah, that when things get into this murky water scenario which will have a negative impact overall, the project or the process, that's an issue.
00:32:12.545 --> 00:32:16.874
Now I want to ask you in that about reoccurring versus project work.
00:32:16.874 --> 00:32:21.111
So I've just never even taught about project work, I've always done reoccurring work.
00:32:21.111 --> 00:32:24.646
Do you think design is more situated towards project work?
00:32:24.727 --> 00:32:26.692
And the reason why I ask you is because we have someone in our program.
00:32:26.692 --> 00:32:36.873
He's a web developer, web design mainly and he's 19 and he was probably charging like 3,000, 5,000 to do the design.
00:32:36.873 --> 00:32:39.146
And he said, oh yeah, it was just one off payment.
00:32:39.146 --> 00:32:47.590
And I was like, dude, why don't we just swap to a reoccurring 1500 or 2K and then you can do other stuff for them too, like their landing pages and whatnot?
00:32:47.590 --> 00:32:49.413
And he was like, no, no, it wouldn't work.
00:32:49.413 --> 00:32:51.536
And I was like why don't you just try it with someone coming in?
00:32:51.536 --> 00:32:59.862
And within a week he was able to get a guy on a four and a half K reoccurring every month, and before it would be four and a half K and that would be.
00:32:59.862 --> 00:33:00.782
It be done, you're done.
00:33:00.782 --> 00:33:03.826
So it's like finding new ways to provide value for the same person.
00:33:03.826 --> 00:33:09.232
Yeah, but you think that is missing in the design space and basically in all the spaces.
00:33:09.232 --> 00:33:11.115
Well, that's.
00:33:11.996 --> 00:33:21.503
That's just a perfect example of like, taking something from the software space and applying it well, the.
00:33:21.503 --> 00:33:26.192
The best thing anybody can do is just figure out and and the.
00:33:26.192 --> 00:33:32.068
The best operating system for anybody that runs any business is to forget what you're selling.
00:33:32.068 --> 00:33:32.910
It doesn't matter.
00:33:32.910 --> 00:33:46.660
Figure out and try to, you know, subject yourself to as many different business models and and try to pull something out of of them that makes sense for you.
00:33:46.660 --> 00:33:49.907
That's where all the innovation is so like.
00:33:49.907 --> 00:34:06.411
The best way to think about it is if, if you're a barber, or if you're a design business owner, or if you're a podcaster, the best sales training is going to come from the best salesperson on the planet, not the best podcasting salesperson.
00:34:06.411 --> 00:34:08.387
Such a good point, dude.
00:34:08.387 --> 00:34:10.280
Yeah, such a good point.
00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:19.554
The best way to think about building a product suite from low to high ticket.
00:34:19.554 --> 00:34:22.387
The best person to mimic is Apple.
00:34:22.387 --> 00:34:28.610
When it comes to reoccurring subscriptions.
00:34:28.610 --> 00:34:33.405
How do you maintain a relationship with a customer so that they keep spending money?
00:34:33.405 --> 00:34:37.027
It's going to SaaS software.
00:34:37.027 --> 00:34:42.028
Right, the future is here.
00:34:42.139 --> 00:35:02.911
It's just not evenly distributed and the job of the entrepreneur is to figure out what mechanically works and what doesn't subjectively and embed it into your business Like, and this, to me, is just blatantly obvious.
00:35:02.911 --> 00:35:12.273
But what happens is identities get in the way and I'm a podcaster or I'm a designer or I'm a life coach.
00:35:12.273 --> 00:35:20.572
Then they're like well, this is how these people behave and that's not how I think you should think about it.
00:35:20.572 --> 00:35:21.985
I think you should just think about it.
00:35:21.985 --> 00:35:27.007
My responsibility is to create market value so that I build generational wealth.
00:35:27.007 --> 00:35:28.144
That's how I think about it.
00:35:28.144 --> 00:35:37.681
What mechanics exist in the world so that when somebody knows something like podcasting, it's like sick.
00:35:38.063 --> 00:35:49.306
Let's go speak to this guy and let's suck him for all the intellectual property that he's got and see how we can use it, irrespective of whoever you are, because there's something that's working.
00:35:49.306 --> 00:35:51.231
Yeah Right, you're in Bali.
00:35:51.231 --> 00:35:55.067
Here, we're both at a mastermind.
00:35:55.067 --> 00:36:04.130
He's doing something that I'm not doing, or he has a perspective that I don't have, and it doesn't matter what you're selling.
00:36:04.130 --> 00:36:06.367
It doesn't matter if you're selling fucking fidget spinners.
00:36:06.367 --> 00:36:23.567
It's understanding mechanically what you've got working and how I can potentially trade what's working for me with you so that both of our base IPips expand by two percent and I learned that from james from australia forget his surname.
00:36:24.309 --> 00:36:32.673
Uh, you, I think you were talking about this too which is vertical integration yeah and because, for me, this is where, again, you have to let the ego go.
00:36:33.041 --> 00:36:37.960
You know, I was pretty young to do a good offer, so I kind of felt like, oh, fuck it, I just have it all figured out.
00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:40.085
Just do one thing, sam ovens, bang your head off the table.
00:36:40.085 --> 00:36:44.985
But what I've been learning is like, again, there's different ways to solve the same problem.
00:36:44.985 --> 00:36:54.105
Yeah, depending on access, depending on cash, depending on and that's what james is doing really, really well like he's like four or five different things, but they're in difficult areas.
00:36:54.105 --> 00:36:58.336
But the last piece of the puzzle is the apple approach, which is software.
00:36:58.336 --> 00:37:02.693
Yeah, and I come from a software background, right, so I have like a piece.
00:37:02.793 --> 00:37:10.061
I have a place in my heart for a software company, totally and it's just something that I've always wanted to do because it's so hard to get right.
00:37:10.061 --> 00:37:13.597
Yeah, it's a pot, it's like dude, like one thing wrong with the feature.
00:37:13.597 --> 00:37:15.762
As you know from design, the whole thing's a shit show.
00:37:15.762 --> 00:37:28.920
So the reason why I'm saying this is because when you have dominance in an area like design or a podcast, and not like, yeah, like you're a key person of influence in a specific niche, then at that point you can add in all these different things.
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:40.150
So even last night and to this day I don't know what it is, but I know that a play I want to do is a sas platform that all of my clients and members can use.
00:37:40.150 --> 00:37:43.492
Yeah, and it can be sold externally yeah let's just give a simple example.
00:37:43.512 --> 00:37:45.380
Let's say, just managing your podcast, whatever that means.
00:37:45.380 --> 00:37:57.221
People externally can come in for 29 a month, but then people internally can use it at nine dollars a month yeah and then it's just this massive ecosystem play yeah, does that make sense?
00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:02.251
a hundred percent and and dude, like that, to me, is the logical path everybody should go down.
00:38:02.251 --> 00:38:16.266
Is like like, if you think about, every piece of software that you use has a grievance based on your individual context, like every popular software platform is a compromise between the collective user base.
00:38:16.266 --> 00:38:18.009
Explain that is a compromise between the collective user base.
00:38:18.028 --> 00:38:31.445
Explain that Well like ActiveCampaign for me is an incredible tool, but there's things about it that annoy me, based on the nature of who I email, how often I email them and what I email them with.
00:38:31.445 --> 00:38:36.740
Activecampaign is looking at 10 people in the market and going.
00:38:36.740 --> 00:38:57.512
They all kind of use email a tad different, but let's see where they overlap and that's our product, whereas what I think will happen in the future is I don't know if you've seen that graph, but the amount of people to run a million dollars worth of revenue in an organization has gone from nine in 1971 to three now.
00:38:57.940 --> 00:38:58.786
Oh, the amount of people.
00:38:58.947 --> 00:39:02.061
Yeah, yeah, the amount of people to to generate a million dollars of revenue.
00:39:02.061 --> 00:39:18.929
If, if that continues on the curve that ai kind of represents, then we we hit an inflection point where you're just going to tell chat gpt how to build that software and now you've eliminated all of the risk of creating it.
00:39:18.929 --> 00:39:29.735
So the competitive advantage to the piece of software is the fact that you understand the context of how to use that software for your exact audience and no compromises bear in mind.
00:39:29.936 --> 00:39:32.083
That's what everyone gets wrong in a software world.
00:39:32.083 --> 00:39:34.690
So most guys get in the software world because of the opportunity.
00:39:34.690 --> 00:39:41.286
So I come from a finance fintech background and obviously digital payments has been huge in the past 10 years.
00:39:41.286 --> 00:39:48.009
But no one knows even me who worked there how complicated the backend is.
00:39:48.009 --> 00:39:49.586
I won't bore you, but I'm trying to give an example.
00:39:49.586 --> 00:39:55.599
There's custodians, there's transaction times, there's layover times, there's transaction fees, there's all these nuances.
00:39:55.659 --> 00:39:57.146
It's deceptively clunky.
00:39:57.539 --> 00:40:01.492
People don't understand how it's 200 years of a financial system, right, yeah, yeah.
00:40:01.492 --> 00:40:05.744
And to simplify, it breaks this regulation, that compliance, that regulation, that law right.
00:40:05.744 --> 00:40:10.606
So the laws are set up deliberately to protect the user, even though they're slow and clunky, clunky, right.
00:40:10.606 --> 00:40:22.047
So the reason I'm saying this is because the amount of people that get into that space because they see the big opportunity of cash app and revolute and then 20 minutes on the line they're like what the fuck is going on.
00:40:22.047 --> 00:40:25.780
So I built a trading platform bear mind trading.
00:40:25.780 --> 00:40:27.864
You, you're big into investing.
00:40:27.885 --> 00:40:34.728
Right the back end of trading, what's going on between ping this bank, that bank, that bank, is wild, bro.
00:40:34.728 --> 00:40:36.391
It's honestly the most wildest shit ever.
00:40:36.391 --> 00:40:39.621
We had actuaries working on the back end just to understand what was going on.
00:40:39.621 --> 00:40:41.045
It was like most wild shit ever.
00:40:41.045 --> 00:40:52.931
Anyway, the reason I'm saying this is because most entrepreneurs are building things that they don't even know about, and you, you really see that in the service side, people sell services that they don't know about, like ads and niches.
00:40:52.931 --> 00:40:57.527
But it becomes such a different ball game when you've taken someone's money, you've invested it.
00:40:57.527 --> 00:40:59.309
You spent nine months building a roadmap.
00:40:59.309 --> 00:41:01.813
You don't even know how to market, yeah.
00:41:01.813 --> 00:41:03.342
So you've got everything wrong.
00:41:03.342 --> 00:41:04.125
Not even one thing.
00:41:04.144 --> 00:41:20.391
You've got everything wrong and you own eight percent of the business yeah the the funny thing the perfect like example with that is is people will look at that like the they.
00:41:20.391 --> 00:41:24.487
They'll look at Revolut and be like, oh, what's the market cap that Revolut are going towards?
00:41:24.487 --> 00:41:27.108
Let's go into that market and let's do something.
00:41:27.108 --> 00:41:29.869
But they obviously don't see the back-end complexity of it.
00:41:29.869 --> 00:41:37.768
Everybody that's absolutely murdered starts by just solving a stupid dumb one problem.
00:41:37.768 --> 00:41:48.309
So paypal's whole ethos at the start was to figure out how to get ebay, um super sellers, transacting more efficiently.
00:41:48.309 --> 00:42:02.356
Because if you go back to when the start of the, the originations of paypal, think about how money was transaction if you were selling stuff on eBay back in I don't know what year it was like early 2000s.
00:42:02.356 --> 00:42:04.708
That's a very clunky process.
00:42:04.708 --> 00:42:16.068
So they focused just on reducing the amount of time that super sellers were using, because you might do 15 transactions a day, that's eight hours of transaction processing.
00:42:16.068 --> 00:42:21.824
You know hours of of transaction processing, you know.
00:42:21.824 --> 00:42:22.806
So they they solved a very minute problem.
00:42:22.827 --> 00:42:30.867
They just happened to have the mechanics that led into a mass market product, um, but I think the exciting thing is is coming coming back to like your software idea.
00:42:30.867 --> 00:42:47.900
We're approaching the point that we'll all be able to create software at home and I think ai eventually will converge on this space where there'll only be one thing left to do, and that'll be the person that determines the taste of a business.
00:42:47.900 --> 00:42:54.061
Is there a product that we can create with a following that we can put it in front of where they're going to be?
00:42:54.061 --> 00:42:55.344
Like, yeah, we'll sort money for that.
00:42:55.344 --> 00:43:06.152
That'll be the last role, and and and that's why anybody that's entrepreneurially minded is is set up for a pretty incredible future.
00:43:06.152 --> 00:43:21.628
I would say, um, but yeah, like all of the, all of the barriers right now with software, uh, personnel and intellectual property barriers, but AI is ironing those out.
00:43:22.340 --> 00:43:23.826
You talk about IP a lot.
00:43:23.826 --> 00:43:24.387
Yeah.
00:43:24.387 --> 00:43:32.586
Tell me true the concept, like what you're thinking with that, because I don't think people really understand even the context of how you're describing it.
00:43:32.949 --> 00:43:33.108
Yeah.
00:43:33.108 --> 00:43:37.679
So everybody has intellectual property.
00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:39.101
I, everybody, everybody has intellectual property.
00:43:39.101 --> 00:43:47.371
It's basically it's it's what they have that allows them to mechanically get a desired outcome for themselves.
00:43:47.371 --> 00:43:50.755
That could be massively valuable if in the hands of somebody else.
00:43:50.755 --> 00:43:55.452
So let's think about everything.
00:43:55.452 --> 00:44:03.561
Let's just consider us both laptops, right, everything.
00:44:03.561 --> 00:44:04.744
Let's just consider us both laptops right.
00:44:04.744 --> 00:44:10.342
You're sitting here with 330 megabytes worth of success formula for how to build a marketing company that offers done for you services, right?
00:44:10.342 --> 00:44:18.855
I'm sitting here with 270 megabytes around how to build a design business and run ads to a coaching program.
00:44:18.855 --> 00:44:22.106
We both mutually benefit.
00:44:22.106 --> 00:44:32.231
If we just take your 330 megabytes and put it in my laptop and vice versa, we now have 600 megabytes worth of intellectual property.
00:44:32.231 --> 00:44:52.079
So, basically, intellectual property is just how you think about doing something that creates a desired result Well, and what you'll find is like intellectual property is basically the most profitable thing to sell on the planet as well.
00:44:52.199 --> 00:45:13.150
So if you have a look at that MacBook in front of you, the reason that Apple are basically the most successful product company on the planet is because the gap between what it costs to produce the laptop and what they can sell it for at retail is the most aggressive multiplier versus cost.
00:45:13.150 --> 00:45:19.860
So if you've got the cost and the profit, their multiplier is more aggressive than anybody on the planet.
00:45:19.860 --> 00:45:28.751
So it might be $200 more to produce that MacBook, but they can charge $1,500 more than a Lenovo right?
00:45:28.751 --> 00:45:34.865
What creates the gap between the cost and the retail value is intellectual property.
00:45:34.865 --> 00:45:46.652
It's not hard work, it's just knowing what formation to put the aluminium in, how to create the user experience, the tactile feel of the buttons.
00:45:46.652 --> 00:45:52.309
It's their own interpretation on what they think is the most effective formula and combination.
00:45:52.309 --> 00:46:05.181
So the way I see it is that everybody's got intellectual property Everybody like literally everybody, and your only responsibility is to figure out what.
00:46:05.181 --> 00:46:11.831
Does somebody know that you don't Sequencing yeah and be like well, how is that relevant to my space?
00:46:11.831 --> 00:46:18.507
And that's the danger in hanging out in just if you're just hanging out with podcasters.
00:46:18.507 --> 00:46:36.280
That's the danger in hanging out in just if you're just hanging out with podcasters is that you reach a market cap of IP in the podcasting space that maybe gets to 100 megabytes, but in the total addressable marketplace of IP in every industry there's 100 tetabytes.
00:46:36.280 --> 00:46:38.003
Fuck dude, 100 tetabytes.
00:46:38.003 --> 00:46:38.282
How?
00:46:38.282 --> 00:46:41.469
How are you like the?
00:46:41.568 --> 00:47:09.467
The reason that so many successful people came from paypal is because all of those guys bought ip and then they sat there in a very um, communicatable, um high level of like information, data swapping environment for multiple years that it allowed them all to completely change their world perspective around what was possible and how to leverage ideas and technology, and that's how they all branched out and moved in.
00:47:09.467 --> 00:47:24.146
So they all came in super smart people, but they 10X their hard drive with the IP and then they've all gone off and built billion dollar companies a hard drive with a ip and then they've all gone off and built billion dollar companies.
00:47:24.146 --> 00:47:33.807
So so that I I feel like the the real game is to just exist in the world that you want to exist in and and do exactly what you want to do.
00:47:33.807 --> 00:47:39.219
And then you'll run across people that are on similar paths and then you just trade ip and that's on similar paths and then you just trade IP.
00:47:39.219 --> 00:47:41.000
And that's like the beauty of, like the interview.
00:47:41.019 --> 00:47:44.507
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00:48:11.202 --> 00:48:26.230
Game whereby you're constantly evolving within your own niche and then you're just rising continuously by just not leaving the market and most people shit their pants, lose their mind and run in the other direction when an agency isn't working, when coaching's not working, which is all bullshit.
00:48:26.230 --> 00:48:28.463
Right, yeah, the problem isn't the model.
00:48:28.463 --> 00:48:44.086
The problem is you right to some degree, but that's actually why podcast as an example is really good, because if I didn't have my show, I wouldn't be meeting people in these settings and learning those data sets and small nuances.
00:48:44.086 --> 00:48:47.001
And, yes, I might not action every piece of advice immediately.
00:48:47.001 --> 00:48:54.929
I'd always about have 15 000 different businesses, but it's about learning the small things the tremors from them, yeah and then making a difference.
00:48:54.969 --> 00:49:00.112
so when I met james kemp when he was sitting in the right seat that you were in, he was like what do you do?
00:49:00.112 --> 00:49:05.606
And I was like we run a $5,000 a month reoccurring payment done for you service and he was like what do you do?
00:49:05.606 --> 00:49:08.786
I was like we coach them, we teach them, we do things, we build things.
00:49:08.786 --> 00:49:10.887
He was like could you just unbundle it?
00:49:10.887 --> 00:49:24.001
I was like could you do that?
00:49:24.001 --> 00:49:25.306
And I was like he's like would people pay for the strategy stuff.
00:49:25.327 --> 00:49:25.929
I was like that's 90 of it.
00:49:25.929 --> 00:49:28.358
Yeah, genuinely, it's like, uh, if you ever read category of one, yeah, you know, he mentions that everything is a commodity.
00:49:28.358 --> 00:49:41.061
So, because everything's a commodity, what we do is also a commodity, that the value we're doing is actually not in the execution, it's in the coaching and the more strategy side of things, the alignment with the business.
00:49:41.061 --> 00:49:45.391
So now we're just able to extract that component and then bring it down.
00:49:45.391 --> 00:49:50.331
Bring it down, so that's part of the ip, but it's also part of the leverage.
00:49:51.112 --> 00:49:54.768
And that's where you see people like the paypal bros, paypal mafia, isn't it?
00:49:54.768 --> 00:50:12.307
They're all playing those games of huge leverage, yeah, but and I want to get your thoughts on that too, because I know those guys like you know, the guys, uh, from nvidia who spent 25 years right trying to figure out the business and now, 25 years later, they're doing like a four billion and a quarter or whatever.
00:50:12.307 --> 00:50:16.141
But at the same time, is that the game that you want to be playing?
00:50:16.141 --> 00:50:27.570
Right, because obviously there's lots of leverage in that, but is that a game that you're willing to play versus what you're doing, which is you want to go kind of smaller scale but then higher rev and whatnot.
00:50:27.570 --> 00:50:34.226
But it's much more aligned to your values of your family, your friends playing golf on thursdays well, that's that's the whole game is.
00:50:36.588 --> 00:50:45.121
You can't do anything but benefit from learning chess moves or like poker moves on a table.
00:50:45.121 --> 00:50:46.788
That's a higher cash game.
00:50:46.788 --> 00:51:03.990
If you're familiar with how poker tournaments work right, if you're learning what the, the number one poker player on the planet, is doing on the high stakes table, at least knowing that can put you in good stead for a move that is similar to that in the future.
00:51:03.990 --> 00:51:20.472
So if you're maximizing your acquisition of ip on one directive, it then infers that it should be easier to solve the problems that you currently face based on the way that you're currently constraining where you invest time.
00:51:20.472 --> 00:51:44.902
So for me, it's like figure out like we were discussing exactly what I want my week to look like, with no like concessions or sacrifices, then engineer what the long-term business mechanism goal is in 30 years and go okay, that's the problem.
00:51:44.902 --> 00:51:45.844
What is that for you?
00:51:45.844 --> 00:51:47.208
Um?
00:51:47.208 --> 00:51:50.396
Do you mean like number wise?
00:51:50.916 --> 00:51:57.724
number lifestyle, like because you have to think with the end in mind, right back to the 48 laws of error yeah, so we're reverse engineering this.
00:51:57.724 --> 00:51:58.748
What does that look like for you?
00:51:59.068 --> 00:52:16.809
yeah, for me that looks like owning property in three different countries, um, and getting myself to the point that about three and a half million dollars a year passive and so basically just three, three, three and a half million um dollars a year.
00:52:16.809 --> 00:52:24.565
That comes from my investments, not from my cash flow businesses what are you investing in?
00:52:24.585 --> 00:52:25.126
just property?
00:52:26.228 --> 00:52:30.704
property stocks dividends, everything and then cash flow businesses in the future.
00:52:30.704 --> 00:52:32.789
So not?
00:52:32.809 --> 00:52:33.791
something you want to invest in.
00:52:33.791 --> 00:52:38.168
You want to invest in cash flow businesses or hire ceos, build build them.
00:52:38.548 --> 00:52:51.880
Build them myself, yeah, um, based on where I see opportunity, um, but then also open up the opportunity for the people that we help to to invest into theirs and become part owners as well are you familiar with serge guteri?
00:52:52.501 --> 00:52:54.726
no, such a fucking cool dude.
00:52:54.726 --> 00:52:58.474
He's a 23, 24, from rwanda, moved to canada.
00:52:58.474 --> 00:53:02.864
He's living in this massive penthouse in montreal, brand new porsche.
00:53:02.864 --> 00:53:06.213
Such a cool dude, but super down to earth, right, super down to earth.
00:53:06.213 --> 00:53:10.106
But he's 23, he's doing 600k a month, wow.
00:53:10.106 --> 00:53:15.541
And I was like what's the mechanism for that, like what's the philosophy around it?
00:53:15.541 --> 00:53:47.563
And he was like very simple, he was like I wasn't studying the 10k a month bros, 100k a month bros, I was studying nvidia, apple, all these bigger companies, um, like really understanding their inner game to the point that what he's, their approaches and this is kind of completes a circle was that, instead of, you know, getting people on retained or getting people on a paid in full, his approach was we want to build infrastructure for sales, operations, marketing and something else within companies and we'll do that.
00:53:47.563 --> 00:53:54.760
One off, 25, 30k, yeah, and then if it's going well, we'll partner on you.
00:53:54.900 --> 00:54:11.525
If you're doing I think it's over half a million a year, we'll partner on you If you're doing I think it's over half a million a year we'll partner with you for 20% or whatever, and then ramp all these systems and then let it run, and then you don't give a shit that you're paying about 20%, because now you're making a million a two million, a three million, and that's what allowed him to play that kind of bigger game.
00:54:11.525 --> 00:54:27.851
Now he went through all the evolutions of churn and burn, and so I just thought it was super interesting, because it's the same philosophy that you're talking about thinking about building those components of leverage yeah and he's doing that as like a 23 year old kid when he started.
00:54:27.871 --> 00:54:33.702
When he started, I'm not too sure what age he is now, so he's still super young, but and then that that's the like.
00:54:33.722 --> 00:54:54.530
That's just the simple idea of you can do so much yourself, but if you can have a 20% cut of 100 people that are all pursuing the path that you're pursuing, that's going to have by an order of magnitude impact on your net worth and like, if you look at like Alex Hormozy, that's all he's doing.
00:54:54.530 --> 00:55:00.492
Acquisitioncom is basically a mastermind that they don't charge for, they just take equity.
00:55:02.119 --> 00:55:03.063
It's like a family office.
00:55:03.686 --> 00:55:04.829
Yeah, Basically.
00:55:04.829 --> 00:55:16.632
So his whole strategy that's why he'll be worth easily a billion is it's free information to help people get to $3 million a year.
00:55:16.632 --> 00:55:27.351
And then, once they've got to that point and people are grateful for his help getting them there they give him 20% of their business to grow it to $10, $20, $50 million a year.
00:55:27.351 --> 00:55:40.373
That's his whole model is understanding that he can only grow a business itself to maybe 100 million max.
00:55:40.373 --> 00:55:49.175
But if you can get a thousand people to get to 50 million and get 20 cut of that, that is considerably easier even better than that.
00:55:49.637 --> 00:55:50.981
So you know, you pay for speed, right?
00:55:50.981 --> 00:55:52.346
Have you seen his workshops?
00:55:52.346 --> 00:55:55.896
No I was going to do one in vegas.
00:55:55.896 --> 00:55:57.880
You, man, you should do one.
00:55:57.880 --> 00:56:00.449
Yeah, if you're going to be in Vegas for a week or two, they're in Vegas.
00:56:00.981 --> 00:56:01.925
Oh, you can do workshops there.
00:56:02.360 --> 00:56:03.246
So I'll give you some context.
00:56:03.246 --> 00:56:06.445
So you mentioned that he's getting people the three million a year so you can invest in them.
00:56:06.445 --> 00:56:10.507
He's a smart cookie and realizes that most people don't take advice right.
00:56:10.507 --> 00:56:31.041
So now he has a new model, a new offer, which which is, if you're doing around a million a year, you can go to vegas for a two-day workshop and all the acquisitioncom team will be there to help you promote it, help you build your offer, specifically on round tables, like 50 people, well, and then leila and alex will come in for a talk on the last day.
00:56:31.041 --> 00:56:34.471
So what that is is giving you more help.
00:56:34.471 --> 00:56:35.675
It's 5k.
00:56:35.675 --> 00:56:41.061
It's which is super cheap, to be honest oh, that's nothing and then they're putting you in their crm.
00:56:42.144 --> 00:56:43.670
I gotta tell you the story about that in a second.
00:56:43.690 --> 00:57:00.311
But they'll put you in a crm and now they're seeing you evolve to get to the point whereby it's like um, it's like a football academy team yeah, they're finding the good people and then they're seeing like one, you're not a dumb ass, and then two, the business is good, so we'll help you in exchange for money until you get to that point, then we'll prime you.
00:57:00.311 --> 00:57:04.661
Yeah, so how I figured out about it was in like one of his links.
00:57:04.661 --> 00:57:06.489
Uh, it was like a new link.
00:57:06.489 --> 00:57:07.735
I said that's kind of weird in his video.
00:57:07.735 --> 00:57:16.963
So saturday night I was here it was late, it was probably around 1 am and I saw the link and I saw the workshop and I was like, fuck, I'm going to the?
00:57:16.963 --> 00:57:17.463
U the US soon.
00:57:17.463 --> 00:57:18.706
Let me just sign up yeah.
00:57:18.985 --> 00:57:20.630
I signed up, put in my details.
00:57:20.630 --> 00:57:24.938
Within one minute I had a missed call wow.
00:57:25.579 --> 00:57:34.067
Saturday night here in Vegas it was super early in the morning, was probably around 8am Saturday morning, and he's always talking about speed to lead and calling back your leads.
00:57:34.067 --> 00:57:40.764
In two minutes I had a call from a guy, had a whatsapp message, and I just responded going wow, I can show you the message.
00:57:40.764 --> 00:57:48.811
Bro, I sent it into a group chat being like this is the difference, yeah, between the guys at the top and the guys in the middle, right 100 and uh.
00:57:48.811 --> 00:57:54.902
So because I was so amazed by I would never bring someone to her life, I rang him immediately back and I was like dude, that was sick.
00:57:54.902 --> 00:57:56.485
I literally was like that was sick.
00:57:56.485 --> 00:57:57.887
I like I don't have time for the business.
00:57:57.887 --> 00:58:02.007
And then we were at the stage so you're over seven figures to do it.
00:58:02.221 --> 00:58:08.583
But it didn't work out for me because I'm not in Vegas for the same weekend, but they're doing it every like two weeks.
00:58:08.583 --> 00:58:09.648
Oh man, pretty much now.
00:58:09.648 --> 00:58:11.065
Yeah, I'm 100% going to do that.
00:58:11.065 --> 00:58:15.148
Yeah, so I can give you details of the sales rep guy.
00:58:15.148 --> 00:58:20.972
Yep, because we actually got on really well and I was like I was like I can do it, I'm just not going to be there.
00:58:20.972 --> 00:58:33.019
That's the difference, you know, all right, cool, because we because I had the tour planned out and we're like super tight on schedules yeah, I saw, oh, maybe there's a day or two, and then we're like, ah, whatever, come back to keep me in a serum, you know.
00:58:33.019 --> 00:58:41.335
So I just thought that was super interesting, because that's when you evolve with someone, we go back to the outcome yeah, versus the input they're putting you on this scaler.
00:58:41.355 --> 00:58:44.239
You know yeah, um, that's, that's incredible.
00:58:44.239 --> 00:59:00.894
And like I mean, that's see, probably that they're probably thinking, okay, well, 5k ticket, that might break even, but if we take 5 000 people through that over the next X amount of years and 100 of them pop, that's going to be amazing.
00:59:01.159 --> 00:59:02.547
And it's also free marketing.
00:59:02.547 --> 00:59:03.561
He didn't put a cent into that.
00:59:03.561 --> 00:59:04.244
Yeah, that's amazing.
00:59:04.264 --> 00:59:11.717
That's the first link in his videos oh dude, yeah, if you want to go back, I'd be keen to do that.
00:59:11.717 --> 00:59:12.619
Yeah for sure.
00:59:12.619 --> 00:59:14.306
What couple-day workshop is it?
00:59:19.219 --> 00:59:20.568
It's on the weekend second weekend, I think in vegas, oh my god, yeah.
00:59:20.568 --> 00:59:26.108
So they fill up pretty quickly, but I know the guy pretty well as you're back and forth for quite some time and uh, I'll try to squeeze it around my box party.
00:59:26.327 --> 00:59:33.880
Yeah guys, I'll be back in eight hours but you know, I think this is the beauty of these things is that you don't need to do all of it, right?
00:59:33.880 --> 00:59:35.244
You don't need to go to the dinners and shit.
00:59:35.244 --> 00:59:36.509
Yeah, you just go in in the morning.
00:59:36.509 --> 00:59:49.782
Because that's what I was going to do with james, because we were super busy at the time and I was like, oh, hey, dude, like I can just go to the things during the day, and he was like all right, cool, you know yeah so you kind of ebb and flow and see, see what works for you too, right at the same time yeah, but if it's not this time.
00:59:49.802 --> 00:59:50.864
You can come back to it.
00:59:50.864 --> 00:59:57.715
That's the whole thing yeah stuff and that's where we go back to again not shoving it, not burning a lead, right?
00:59:57.715 --> 00:59:58.396
Yeah, is that?
00:59:58.396 --> 01:00:02.264
For me in that scenario, this is a really good thing to reflect on.
01:00:02.264 --> 01:00:03.086
So the guy rang me.
01:00:03.086 --> 01:00:05.661
I got on the call, I was keen, but I wasn't able to do it.
01:00:05.661 --> 01:00:07.967
Just from a logical perspective.
01:00:07.967 --> 01:00:12.483
But that doesn't mean that I don't want to do it or that I won't do it in the future.
01:00:12.824 --> 01:00:15.661
And he was pretty chill about it, talking about it now, you know literally.
01:00:15.722 --> 01:00:23.922
So the fact that he didn't burn it yeah and I just actually wasn't able to do it and I wouldn't be wasting someone's time unless I knew I was like 90 in.
01:00:23.922 --> 01:00:28.994
Yeah, um, that's the way you set up the ecosystem.
01:00:28.994 --> 01:00:31.880
Totally right that that is the ecosystem play.
01:00:31.880 --> 01:00:39.130
And now, because I didn't have a negative experience through the sales process, I'll buy the third book when it drops in september or whatever do you get me?
01:00:39.400 --> 01:00:54.693
yeah and then that'll put me on the next, back on the conveyor belt you know, but that's how I'll end up spending a ton of money with them over the next couple years as they build more stuff and then maybe one day they could come in and do something cool with us yeah, and that's the.
01:00:55.942 --> 01:01:05.315
It's a hundred times easier to have that attitude when you don't need any of the next 10 sales opportunities to close.
01:01:05.315 --> 01:01:13.512
So I, like I still obviously do the sales calls in my design business, but with Profitable Designer.
01:01:13.512 --> 01:01:18.239
We've got a beast of a girl in Ecuador named Sophie.
01:01:18.239 --> 01:01:31.038
We've got a beast of a girl in Ecuador named Sophie, and the busier the month that we have and the more revenue we do, the greater her conversion rate because she's mentally past her goal and quota for the month.
01:01:31.038 --> 01:01:41.000
And now everything's just it's like yeah, we don't, yeah, we're kind of busy this month and it's less she'd like it're kind of busy this month and it's less, she'd like it nearly is.
01:01:41.000 --> 01:01:42.545
Like she's repelling the sale.
01:01:42.867 --> 01:02:01.021
Yeah, and and that that was the good thing about like james's attitude is is when you engineer the weekly recurring, you kind of you reduce the need for anybody to individually close, which then that's actually the most optimal way to to continue a long-term relationship.
01:02:01.021 --> 01:02:15.603
So, like you're saying here is like you weren't ready and that there's a lot of like scale bros that would have they would have called a minute later and got that part right, but then they would have really pressed for the sale then, and then you would have been like, well, fuck those guys forever.
01:02:15.603 --> 01:02:29.030
And now you're like they called, you called them back and it's like, yeah, if now it's not the right time, awesome, and now it probably increases the likelihood that you go back by 15 percent.
01:02:29.030 --> 01:02:30.132
Yeah, you know what I mean.
01:02:30.172 --> 01:02:37.543
So it's a delicate balance, though yeah massively very, very delicate balance, and I've seen it but the other thing is they don't need you exactly.
01:02:37.543 --> 01:02:39.547
Yeah, that's, they don't they.
01:02:39.547 --> 01:02:44.541
They know their numbers and they know that obviously, out of x amount of people we call that.
01:02:44.541 --> 01:02:45.483
That changed.
01:02:45.483 --> 01:02:48.170
That massively changed our sales process as well.
01:02:48.170 --> 01:02:57.346
So we use aloe and we call the minute people book for a call, we call them straight away automated yeah, we.
01:02:57.346 --> 01:03:03.148
It automatically dials, sophie jumps on and goes super, super excited to chat to you in the next couple of days.
01:03:03.148 --> 01:03:04.733
Um, are you free now?
01:03:05.161 --> 01:03:09.367
and the voicemail no person, but where is she?
01:03:10.210 --> 01:03:12.853
in ecuador, like what if her phone's not with her?
01:03:13.800 --> 01:03:17.728
she, she is like it's, it's during her, during her window.
01:03:17.728 --> 01:03:24.344
If the call booking comes through, which 80% of them do, it'll Aloe Vera will just go.
01:03:24.344 --> 01:03:25.530
Oh, we're going to dial this person.
01:03:25.699 --> 01:03:27.005
And it will ring her phone too.
01:03:27.204 --> 01:03:52.702
Yeah, yeah, and then she knows okay, awesome, and then she can bring up the information and what she does is a lot of the times she runs the triage call right then and there when they book, so that we can move them straight to a discovery instead of triaging and then discovery well, I don't do any triage call we do it just because of the call volume, to protect her time, because we don't want to her.
01:03:52.742 --> 01:04:01.650
Spending an hour with somebody that we could have identified in five minutes wasn't qualified if that makes it, could you, would you not have to turn an application form or a calendar form?
01:04:01.952 --> 01:04:08.289
Yeah, there's a difference between what people fill out in a form and what they actually say when you question them.
01:04:08.289 --> 01:04:08.690
Yeah.
01:04:09.039 --> 01:04:15.800
So we do this kind of like and it's in everybody's best interest to figure out we do.
01:04:15.800 --> 01:04:19.599
She does this thing called Open Wallet and she just runs the sales process.
01:04:19.599 --> 01:04:28.474
I don't stay up to date with it because when she closes 60% of people you don't need to worry about what's happening.
01:04:28.474 --> 01:04:29.335
It's not broken, right.
01:04:29.335 --> 01:04:35.811
But she does this thing called open wallet and she's like yeah, to be blatantly upfront, like this is what it costs.
01:04:35.811 --> 01:04:39.967
If that's okay, then fantastic.
01:04:39.967 --> 01:04:51.431
If it's 50 50, we can obviously discuss, like if this is something that makes sense for you, because if it's not, we want to push you in the right direction and say to you that maybe now is not the right time for the call.
01:04:51.639 --> 01:05:05.873
If that makes sense the other approach to that would be you'd build commitment, buy into the process they're 100% into the process and then reveal the investment and then people will make it work.
01:05:05.873 --> 01:05:07.625
That's the other logic to that.
01:05:08.007 --> 01:05:08.186
Yeah.
01:05:08.186 --> 01:05:16.487
But what happens is, as long as people come back and say I'm open to it, then the call can progress.
01:05:16.487 --> 01:05:22.021
Okay, if that makes sense, yeah it, then the the call can progress.
01:05:22.021 --> 01:05:24.264
Okay, if that makes sense, yeah, so and and the.
01:05:24.264 --> 01:05:26.610
The process might be completely different if we only had 20 calls a month, but when?
01:05:26.630 --> 01:05:32.103
we've got like 70, like we don't want it's a lot.
01:05:32.103 --> 01:05:40.884
We yeah, like I don't know how she does it, but like I my my brain turns to mush if I have, when I had three calls in a day so how much revenue do in a month?
01:05:40.884 --> 01:05:45.032
We do between probably 160 and 300 grand a month.
01:05:45.032 --> 01:05:47.222
Fuck yeah, what's the?
01:05:47.262 --> 01:05:50.768
margin on that uh, probably 75.
01:05:52.291 --> 01:05:56.284
Yeah, my biggest, my biggest cost is this the sales and the setting team.
01:05:57.047 --> 01:06:02.063
Yeah, because it's commission, only commission, yeah, all commission only yeah and then.
01:06:02.423 --> 01:06:03.465
But that's not a cost though.
01:06:03.465 --> 01:06:04.688
No, it's not.
01:06:04.688 --> 01:06:07.721
That's the price you pay to get the money.
01:06:07.800 --> 01:06:08.623
Yeah it's price?
01:06:08.623 --> 01:06:09.907
Yeah, it's only the ads.
01:06:09.907 --> 01:06:18.507
To the ads, or sorry sale sale price minus the ads, minus the commission yeah, but the ads.
01:06:19.690 --> 01:06:24.208
But that's not taking into account the, the low ticket product sales which pay for the ads as well.
01:06:24.208 --> 01:06:25.650
So ads not even in that.
01:06:25.650 --> 01:06:28.465
So yeah, so it kind of it.
01:06:28.465 --> 01:06:30.349
It rotates between that.
01:06:30.349 --> 01:06:37.525
It's like it swings yeah, it swings pretty aggressively um, what do you mean so?
01:06:37.646 --> 01:06:38.626
So why would it swing?
01:06:41.072 --> 01:07:06.320
You just get in tranches and this is half of the reason that the model has to be rebuilt because you do nothing but boost posts on Instagram, for example, for three months, and it can be the same post over 90 days, and then everything else in the business is constant and there can still be a fluctuation of 100 in the monthly revenue.
01:07:06.320 --> 01:07:08.184
I don't get it.
01:07:08.184 --> 01:07:27.590
We can boost a particular post that calls out a type of designer in march which we did and do 300 grand in march and then not change anything in april and may, and then it goes 300, 150, 220.
01:07:27.590 --> 01:07:39.759
You know what I mean and it's and it's just relative to we're relying on one algorithm and where it puts that and and kind of seasonal difference in.
01:07:39.759 --> 01:07:43.067
You know people that go through different buying cycles halfway through the year.
01:07:43.067 --> 01:07:52.867
The end of the year has been historically good for us because you know people have that, I assume, this new year, new business kind of mentality and they want to start fresh.
01:07:52.867 --> 01:07:55.074
Um, so you go through that.
01:07:55.074 --> 01:07:58.023
But yeah, like it's, it's pretty unpredictable and that's that's half.
01:07:58.023 --> 01:08:13.416
The reason is you can't rely purely on one thing, and that's the great thing about content is that the base is slower to build, but you know how many views and clicks you're going to get next month.
01:08:13.416 --> 01:08:16.506
You know what I mean that are hyper-qualified.
01:08:16.506 --> 01:08:22.524
You know what I mean.
01:08:22.524 --> 01:08:26.050
That are that are hyper qualified, whereas if you rely on running ads, um, you don't know.
01:08:26.069 --> 01:08:28.654
Like instagram and meta's business model changes every day.
01:08:28.654 --> 01:08:41.649
They've gone from and, as you can imagine, remember when, like, people getting locked out of their account and banned became so common that people were selling training programs on how to get unlocked and unbanned, right.
01:08:41.649 --> 01:08:55.207
Well, now we've gone through this complete cycle where less people are spending money on Meta and now it's impossible to get banned, and now an agent from Meta will ring you and ask if you need any help.
01:08:55.207 --> 01:08:57.747
So it's like completely done a 180, right?
01:08:57.747 --> 01:09:09.390
Well, all of those changes in market shifts also mean that they have to continually innovate the way that they figure out how to most effectively allocate somebody's ad spend.
01:09:09.390 --> 01:09:26.122
You know so it's too much of a unpredictable cycle and that's why there has to be rebuilding, so that we can better and more predictably monetize the email base yeah, I think rebuilding maybe the wrong word.
01:09:26.182 --> 01:09:28.529
It could be just innovating yeah, it's, yeah, it's.
01:09:28.529 --> 01:09:33.050
It is just you know like rebuilding is like my life fell apart and now I'll have to start a new business.
01:09:33.881 --> 01:09:34.983
Yeah, that's the but I also like.
01:09:34.983 --> 01:09:35.625
I like that notion of it.
01:09:35.625 --> 01:09:36.707
I like that notion of it.
01:09:36.707 --> 01:09:39.371
I like that idea of like.
01:09:39.371 --> 01:09:43.389
It's always fun to build something new and start fresh again.
01:09:43.389 --> 01:09:45.462
So I see it more as like.
01:09:45.462 --> 01:10:01.694
Have you ever like, when you move overseas, for example, did you do like a mass color of all the shit in your house and how medicinal that cleanse was?
01:10:01.694 --> 01:10:05.043
To get rid of all of that stuff Like we shipped our?
01:10:05.043 --> 01:10:08.091
It cost me during COVID.
01:10:08.091 --> 01:10:15.306
It cost me 6,500 pounds to ship our stuff from the UK to Australia because we thought we were moving back to Australia.
01:10:15.306 --> 01:10:18.128
There wasn't even 6,500 grand worth of stuff in the container.
01:10:18.128 --> 01:10:19.806
It was the worst move of my life.
01:10:19.806 --> 01:10:22.188
But then we're like fuck it, let's just sell it all.
01:10:22.188 --> 01:10:27.306
And it was the most liberating thing, because now we were just backpacks and our travel bags.
01:10:27.306 --> 01:10:31.390
Well, I like doing those system resets.
01:10:31.390 --> 01:10:34.550
I reset my MacBook every two months.
01:10:34.550 --> 01:10:39.751
I just wipe the hard drive and then clean up the google drive folder.
01:10:39.751 --> 01:10:42.083
I just, I like, I like starting from scratch.
01:10:42.144 --> 01:10:45.251
It's like a nice space yeah, you familiar with jk melina?
01:10:45.251 --> 01:10:49.148
Are you an entrepreneur who wants to build your influence and authority online?
01:10:49.148 --> 01:10:52.688
You may have tried some of the hacks and tricks, but none of it has worked.
01:10:52.688 --> 01:10:56.762
And it makes sense 90 of podcasts don't make it to episode three of the 10 that are left.
01:10:56.762 --> 01:10:58.609
90 of them don't make it to episode 3 of the 10% that are left.
01:10:58.609 --> 01:11:01.300
90% of them don't make it to episode 20.
01:11:01.680 --> 01:11:02.947
That's where Voix comes in.
01:11:02.947 --> 01:11:07.260
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01:11:07.260 --> 01:11:13.046
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01:11:19.184 --> 01:11:29.180
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01:11:29.180 --> 01:11:39.212
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01:11:39.212 --> 01:11:43.048
You're not in james's program, are you james kemp's program?
01:11:43.109 --> 01:11:43.350
I was.
01:11:43.350 --> 01:11:48.880
I was for a couple months, okay, but it worked so well and I was like I'll come back and hopefully get private coaching.
01:11:48.880 --> 01:11:51.605
You know when I want to do a couple problems in six months.
01:11:51.926 --> 01:12:00.430
So jk was in james's uh group and this guy's from guatemala, like he's a killer, he's like 21, 22.
01:12:00.430 --> 01:12:03.623
He had a ghost writing agency, grew it out.
01:12:03.623 --> 01:12:04.686
Then he had tweet hunter.
01:12:04.686 --> 01:12:05.689
You know tweet hunter.
01:12:05.689 --> 01:12:09.104
He came in with the guys tebow, they sold it for 1.4 mil.
01:12:09.104 --> 01:12:10.908
He got a good bit of cash from that.
01:12:10.908 --> 01:12:22.542
And then he was helping consultants, coaches, like add 20k to their business and he had like 14 people 150k a month very small margin.
01:12:22.823 --> 01:12:40.434
And that's when he met jk or james, and he went down to him in a va but rebuilt, went back to not zero, but all the way down to rebuild, and james kemp brought him back up to 100k with like 99 margin.
01:12:40.434 --> 01:12:41.574
Well, literally.
01:12:41.574 --> 01:12:44.645
And then the va is based in like uh, where is he's?
01:12:44.645 --> 01:12:48.573
In canada, I think yeah, um, no sales team, nothing.
01:12:48.573 --> 01:12:52.487
And it's the same offer, just true that.
01:12:52.487 --> 01:12:55.439
And, to be honest, dude, like that's, I've learned a lot from james on that too.
01:12:55.439 --> 01:13:02.091
So the reason I'm saying it's not, I'm not using the word rebuilding is because it just I look at everything that you've done.
01:13:02.431 --> 01:13:11.096
Yeah, but it's like a reformatting but I also think, though, that that one person like google doc thing works best.
01:13:11.096 --> 01:13:16.889
If you've been through the wars of business, if you understand the triggers, I'm going to give an example.
01:13:16.889 --> 01:13:22.966
We do paid sponsorships and we never really take calls from ever.
01:13:22.966 --> 01:13:34.271
People will come in a tech company to come in, they'll do a sponsorship and whatnot, but if we're doing something that's a little bit higher level, like a kind of a bundle, like a newsletter and webinars and so on sponsorship we may have to take calls for that.
01:13:34.271 --> 01:13:35.844
Because of james.
01:13:36.465 --> 01:13:41.934
I was thinking like all right, let's just, when they ask for a call, just ask them to send other questions and I'll get back to them.
01:13:41.934 --> 01:13:47.670
But when they're sending the questions, I'm talking to them as if it's a sales call via message.
01:13:47.670 --> 01:13:48.893
Does that make sense?
01:13:48.893 --> 01:13:53.680
Yeah, totally, but the only reason I'm doing it is not because I'm fucking socially anxious and I want to go sales call.
01:13:53.680 --> 01:13:57.850
It's just because we can solve the problem now instead of waiting until next Thursday at 4 pm.
01:13:57.850 --> 01:14:06.233
Totally, but what I'm trying to say is that, because I understand human behavior, from sitting on a call with all these people and just understanding sales processes, it's easier to do that.
01:14:06.233 --> 01:14:08.163
Yeah, and I'm waiting to tell James.
01:14:08.163 --> 01:14:12.337
Actually, we're waiting for a payment to go through which was $28,000 USD.
01:14:12.337 --> 01:14:15.932
Sick, it's for a client, but it's $28,000.
01:14:20.020 --> 01:14:22.194
And it was don't shoot an email.
01:14:22.194 --> 01:14:22.899
Yeah, and you are right, like it.
01:14:22.899 --> 01:14:26.766
One thing I've always, you've always got to be like this.
01:14:26.766 --> 01:14:28.083
Like just the same way.
01:14:28.083 --> 01:14:44.306
There's like laws of gravity, that there's laws to marketing and and using the Google doc template to sell other people, and using the Google Doc template is the most optimal environment for that mechanism to work.
01:14:44.306 --> 01:14:49.509
Yeah, like the inception of it, right, so like that's like the speed of light.
01:14:49.509 --> 01:14:52.469
Yeah, and it's like how close can you get to the speed of light?
01:14:52.469 --> 01:15:12.817
Because we could right now use Telegram as a landing page funnel to get clients and use Telegram as the landing page for that offer, and it'll probably work, or no, it's more likely to work because the proof's in the pudding.
01:15:12.817 --> 01:15:13.500
You know what I mean.
01:15:13.500 --> 01:15:18.546
You're proving the mechanism works, because you're using the mechanism to prove the mechanism works.
01:15:19.186 --> 01:15:22.010
Yeah, you get what I mean that can be taken out of context, though.
01:15:22.010 --> 01:15:29.409
So I mentioned before, like if you're teaching people how to make 10k a month, but you're only making 10k a month because they're buying your program, yeah, that's a pyramid scheme.
01:15:29.550 --> 01:15:33.282
Yeah, yeah, that's a pyramid scheme, and then, but that's that.
01:15:33.282 --> 01:16:01.511
The funny thing is is that that's, um, that's that's what it seems like the vast majority of the market are doing, and what I find is the the people that, um, it just comes down to like the best person that you can invest off has the experience before the business model, the new business model.
01:16:01.511 --> 01:16:11.354
So I think those people are easier to to spot because they they share revenue numbers.
01:16:11.354 --> 01:16:26.381
I think the more that you show revenue numbers, the more likely that you're running the inception game, whereas if you're less showing revenue numbers and you're likely that you're running the inception game, whereas if you're less showing revenue numbers and you're talking more about problems and challenges, that person, to me, is more genuine.
01:16:26.381 --> 01:16:35.865
So, like James, never shares, very rarely shares, revenue numbers, unless they're in a hyper level of context.
01:16:35.905 --> 01:16:43.184
But you see, these like instagram, instagram content creators, where it's just pure inception.
01:16:43.184 --> 01:16:54.052
Here's the money I'm generating selling the course, which is the only thing that I've done, and and there's nothing wrong with that, like you can make money doing that.
01:16:54.052 --> 01:17:06.176
But the problem is, is that the only person that's going to make money buying that course is somebody selling that same course to other people on instagram.
01:17:06.176 --> 01:17:16.604
You're not going to be able to take that training and apply it to someone else because it hasn't been proven in a in a real non-inception market environment.
01:17:16.604 --> 01:17:17.246
Does that make sense?
01:17:17.246 --> 01:17:19.551
Sense, 100%.
01:17:19.551 --> 01:17:28.484
So that's why our stuff works is because it works outside of the mechanisms that I use to sell it.
01:17:29.479 --> 01:17:44.942
Dude, I said this to you on Voices the other day, which is what you're sharing to do with the design businesses and design industry is applicable to other businesses, just like what we're doing to help podcasts become businesses are applicable to any other form of content.
01:17:44.942 --> 01:17:47.770
Yeah, tweets, even ads to some degree.
01:17:47.770 --> 01:17:48.554
Same logic.
01:17:48.554 --> 01:17:50.500
Linkedin newsletters, whatever.
01:17:50.500 --> 01:17:52.104
It's same logic.
01:17:52.404 --> 01:18:13.988
So it's the same vetted principles across a multi multitude of different domains yeah and you're having that strong foundation principle level and you just pick a vessel, it literally goes back to the most basic shit ever, which is like pick a niche and go after the niche with the same principles yeah, well, that and that's, and that's where the specialization is.
01:18:14.069 --> 01:18:33.927
So we're looking at that screen there, right, and we want that screen to connect to the laptop, and that's kind of like the perfect version of your business model is is that tv and you're the laptop, the, the job of the, the creator and the the entrepreneur, is to figure out the most effective cable to take the hdmi port to the, the rgb.
01:18:33.927 --> 01:18:35.931
So you're the converter.
01:18:35.931 --> 01:18:52.411
So it's like, yes, that they are the proven business principles, but, based on the fact that I understand the hdmi port, I'm going to show you how we translate that information so that it's relevant to you and that's that in a way.
01:18:52.411 --> 01:19:00.192
That's kind of all an entrepreneur is is somebody that's releasing a technology and, like ip and ideas are technologies.
01:19:00.192 --> 01:19:04.632
Yep, you're releasing a technology to a market that hasn't seen it before.
01:19:04.632 --> 01:19:16.266
That would would really benefit them if they could figure out how to embed it in their everyday yeah, man, that's so fucking smart yeah, what do you know about podcasting that most people don't systems?
01:19:17.850 --> 01:19:23.083
everyone's just chasing like big guests or a shiny object or a trick or a hack.
01:19:23.083 --> 01:19:24.287
But there is no hack.
01:19:24.287 --> 01:19:36.122
There's just a consistent, repeatable, difficult, grungy process that you just have to go through continuously and it's almost like looking at as like a feedback loop.
01:19:36.122 --> 01:19:39.908
So most guys are like, oh, I released this video, I got no views, but why not?
01:19:39.908 --> 01:19:41.231
Like, how do you debug something?
01:19:41.231 --> 01:19:43.101
How do you look at why it's not working?
01:19:43.101 --> 01:19:47.453
Is the title, thumbnail, show notes, intro hook wrong?
01:19:47.453 --> 01:19:48.396
Like where's the issues?
01:19:48.396 --> 01:19:53.609
Okay, next week we do another rep and then how long are you willing to play the game?
01:19:54.131 --> 01:20:11.643
So I think the beautiful part from because I come from a bodybuilding background, I literally can just record for the rest of my life and not expect anything, because I know just how difficult it is to build a physique and make progress and go from 100 kilos on a bench to 105 kilos is like six months of training or whatever you know.
01:20:11.643 --> 01:20:12.125
Yeah.
01:20:12.125 --> 01:20:18.109
So I think having that infinite approach has been so much easier to build these systems and constantly iterate on them.
01:20:18.109 --> 01:20:19.442
And now it's just turnkey.
01:20:19.442 --> 01:20:27.375
We can either just integrate it with someone straight away and immediately get results, or teach someone to immediately get results through it.
01:20:27.375 --> 01:20:37.286
Yeah, so it's just a combination of that system, process and then mainly the kind of philosophy behind that as well okay, so it seems like of it.
01:20:37.405 --> 01:20:40.493
you said like 90 of the value is kind of the strategy.
01:20:40.493 --> 01:20:51.640
Like at a level anybody can produce a podcast, but the strategy becomes really important.
01:20:51.640 --> 01:20:58.913
So like what's the kind of if?
01:20:58.913 --> 01:21:12.623
If somebody is in a lift with you and you've got a minute to go from level 50 down to level one and you've only got that minute to help them in a podcast out out of the park, what?
01:21:12.623 --> 01:21:17.038
What are the two or three things that you focus on and all of the shit that you neglect?
01:21:17.479 --> 01:21:18.481
just the content pillars.
01:21:18.481 --> 01:21:19.632
That's the only that's important.
01:21:19.632 --> 01:21:21.157
So there's no point.
01:21:21.157 --> 01:21:25.768
You can't grow something that's not ideally in a good position, right?
01:21:25.768 --> 01:21:26.890
This is what product market fit is.
01:21:26.890 --> 01:21:28.054
I call it podcast market fit.
01:21:28.054 --> 01:21:40.801
So if you're a design business, your content pillars are your personal experiences, what you've gone through the past eight years, tactical guides and then also like how-to framework, so your unique mechanism.
01:21:40.801 --> 01:21:42.350
That's your entire framework.
01:21:42.350 --> 01:21:57.000
From there you can find guests, content ideas, post ideas, you can convert those post ideas into different things, but that entire structure that work in the beginning, which can just be on lucid chart dude yeah just breaking out a small content pillar framework that's.
01:21:57.081 --> 01:21:59.792
And then all of these pillars feed into your products and services.
01:21:59.792 --> 01:22:09.605
And once you know you're living that alignment, whether you're working with someone like us or whether you're even looking at yourself, if you know you're going off and talking about relationships over here, it's outside of that framework.
01:22:09.605 --> 01:22:15.470
So you can't be upset with yourself if you're not growing or not making money because it's not in the framework.
01:22:15.470 --> 01:22:19.662
You can, of course, add things in, but that's most important than anything else.
01:22:19.662 --> 01:22:24.595
Add things in, but that's most important than anything else.
01:22:24.595 --> 01:22:28.551
And that's why people like lex friedman and diary ceo and all these guys they really focus on that initially, which was that philosophy.
01:22:28.551 --> 01:22:36.979
And then all the growth stuff is just something that happens, whether you do it a va does it whatever the clips may look like shit or whatnot.
01:22:36.979 --> 01:22:40.572
But if that structure is wrong, then we're growing the wrong thing.
01:22:40.591 --> 01:22:50.921
And and the last piece of that is our framework is like strategy growth is monetization, but it's it's an equation, it's strategy plus growth is the monetization.
01:22:50.921 --> 01:22:53.350
If you take out one of them, you're falling apart.
01:22:53.350 --> 01:23:04.421
So if the strategy is dialed but you're not growing it, well then you're still not going to monetize it If you're growing it, doing all this hooks and crap and all that shit, but the strategy is off.
01:23:04.421 --> 01:23:05.423
You're not going to monetize it.
01:23:05.423 --> 01:23:13.136
It's only when they're too in alignment, and that can be a 20 minute conversation on a whiteboard or it can be a four-day thing.
01:23:13.136 --> 01:23:15.528
I know some people in our program that just jumped up straight away.
01:23:15.528 --> 01:23:18.154
They did the whole thing in 20 minutes yeah uh, even me.
01:23:18.255 --> 01:23:22.091
I'm such a fail forward kind of guy, just like fail forward, break it, fix it, whatever.
01:23:22.091 --> 01:23:33.680
So I just do it on the go, where some people have spent two or three weeks devising it and fixing it and iterating it and getting approval and all this kind of stuff yeah but once that's dialed in, nothing else is important.
01:23:33.782 --> 01:23:34.625
This is only this matters.
01:23:34.625 --> 01:23:42.949
So anything, because that that goes like from inception to recording, to producing, to the business you're trying to sell or the product you're trying to sell.
01:23:42.949 --> 01:23:46.637
You mentioned about reverse engineering, the end goal from an ad.
01:23:46.997 --> 01:23:47.520
Yeah, same shit.
01:23:47.520 --> 01:23:48.601
Yeah, yeah, got it.
01:23:48.601 --> 01:24:09.484
So then, from like a frequency it kind of doesn't matter, as long as it's consistent, yeah, frequency, it kind of doesn't matter and as long as it's consistent, yeah, like the consistency, it doesn't strike me that algorithms play a role as much it's.
01:24:10.145 --> 01:24:23.414
It's more, the consistency creates a better podcast well, consistency creates a better tribe because they're expecting it yeah if I have a late release on a wednesday, I'll have a bunch of dms being like where's the podcast?
01:24:23.414 --> 01:24:31.179
Because everyone knows that for the past four years you'll get an episode from me every wednesday yeah so it's that it's the mental real estate you occupy in someone's brain.
01:24:31.520 --> 01:24:53.002
Yeah, but when you're thinking through the lens, which is more like an infinite game, you're less focused on trying to beat other people, so it's not about how many episodes you can produce, like the amount of guys that were my friends in 2022, that tried to compete with me in 2023, that tried to play a finite game to an infinite problem yeah it's hilarious because they all a lot of them gave up.
01:24:53.002 --> 01:24:56.819
They were good and they gave up yeah because they were trying to like play this.
01:24:57.260 --> 01:24:59.332
Oh it's, I, got to do more, got to do more, got to do more.
01:24:59.332 --> 01:25:14.198
Whereas, like I've literally just been over here on my own, like I don't compete with anyone, I'm gonna do it this way and this is the way that's gonna generate results for us yeah so a lot of the big guys that you see they actually work with production houses and those.
01:25:15.220 --> 01:25:24.073
So a lot of the biggest shows you see they have worked with a couple of houses and smaller creators will join them and they'll try put a square picture, a circle hole.
01:25:24.073 --> 01:25:28.833
So we've had clients join us that we're doing nine episodes a month and they're super burned out.
01:25:28.833 --> 01:25:31.500
They'll join us and I'll I'll cut it in half.
01:25:31.500 --> 01:25:36.201
Yeah, I'll get them to do four if they've been doing eight and as you're doing four, I might get them to do two.
01:25:36.201 --> 01:25:45.123
Yeah, and then we'll just really dial two to four episodes a month and then really focus on growing those and debugging those where they are or not working.
01:25:45.123 --> 01:25:47.194
If they are working, that's great, we can focus on that.
01:25:47.194 --> 01:25:50.137
So it's less about scale or volume.
01:25:50.137 --> 01:25:50.840
So I'll give an example.
01:25:50.840 --> 01:26:00.337
I was thinking about doing the three episodes a month approach, joe Rogan, chris Williamson approach three episodes a week approach and when I did it I was just miserable.
01:26:00.337 --> 01:26:08.532
I never got the three, I'd get the two, I would two, two, two and it was always a hassle, just, and what happened was the unit economics didn't work out.
01:26:09.094 --> 01:26:17.569
We were getting less views and downloads per episode yeah so it actually people couldn't consume as fast as we were releasing, and also people just didn't give a shit about it as much.
01:26:17.569 --> 01:26:20.474
So now we've just gone down to five to six a month.
01:26:20.474 --> 01:26:26.782
Yeah, and it's a nice sweet spot okay, and so it's it's.
01:26:26.902 --> 01:26:37.729
It's really the idea that you just want to put more quality into potentially one a week yeah that's a lot dude, like that's a lot of stuff, is it?
01:26:37.748 --> 01:26:38.993
yeah, because you think about it.
01:26:38.993 --> 01:26:45.711
Right, it's not like the thing with a podcast is that if you're doing one a week, it's not just like you turn on the microphone and release and record.
01:26:45.711 --> 01:27:12.076
It's the fact that you have to think about the guests find the guests, connect the guests, bring them into your ecosystem book time in, do the preparation record, then produce, release, grow and manage it from there yeah so that one episode a week you see on spotify has actually been 5, 10, 15 hours yeah of continuous improvement and whatnot, and bear in mind that that's only process, that's input yeah the outcome is still undefined.
01:27:12.716 --> 01:27:20.323
The output is there one one equal one unit of productivity, one episode, but then the outcome is not there.
01:27:20.323 --> 01:27:27.673
So that's where a lot of guys will join us seven years into their journey and be like we're just moving sideways yeah, because they've never actually tried to get better.
01:27:28.095 --> 01:27:33.617
You know, and, dude, like I put up a photo last night here which was like a before and after of, like, us building the studio.
01:27:33.617 --> 01:27:36.587
That can be better right when we're in person.
01:27:36.587 --> 01:27:44.417
This episode will perform way better than recording remotely, because your room may not have the sound proofing that this room does.
01:27:44.417 --> 01:27:47.109
That's so small, but that could be what you're missing.
01:27:47.109 --> 01:27:48.456
Yeah, yeah, you know.
01:27:48.456 --> 01:28:04.377
So, like, yes, we'll work on, like, debugging the content and the content structure and the pillars, for sure, but at the same time, you could just be mixing a front light genuinely dude or a backlight that will lead to a better retention on a clip, that will lead to more views, and it could be as simple as that.
01:28:04.377 --> 01:28:05.500
So I'll give an example.
01:28:05.500 --> 01:28:10.902
We had a weekly call this week and the guys, a lot of guys, don't want to talk about production too much.
01:28:10.902 --> 01:28:21.378
I don't like talking about production either, but I was sitting there being like, the reason why some of your episodes are not growing is literally because you're not changing angle between who's speaking, who's not speaking.
01:28:21.399 --> 01:28:26.752
You just have two people like this yeah I was like dude, not going to lie, I'm 90 sure that's the reason why you're not growing.
01:28:26.752 --> 01:28:35.020
It's because the angle looks shit interesting I was like dude, like it's as simple as that, just fucking pay an editor to swap the angle.
01:28:35.041 --> 01:28:43.925
So it has a bit more engagement so you, you, you definitely recommend, because the the vast majority of my podcast content is just me talking.
01:28:44.770 --> 01:28:49.381
I think you could get other guys that are like killers in the design space or pulling people across.
01:28:49.381 --> 01:28:50.023
I'll give you an example.
01:28:50.023 --> 01:28:51.795
So I told you I know Chris.
01:28:51.795 --> 01:28:57.362
With Chris, though, they help design people become more logical with business right.
01:28:57.362 --> 01:29:05.018
In doing that, he will bring in people that are personal brand guys like jasmine alec, who I know well, who's big on linkedin.
01:29:05.018 --> 01:29:15.175
He'll bring in sales guys like chris voss and negotiation to help some of client contracts, and he'll bring in some other guys just on delivery, fulfillment, community building and stuff like this.
01:29:15.175 --> 01:29:17.179
They don't know anything, but is it?
01:29:17.179 --> 01:29:18.761
Yeah zero.
01:29:19.143 --> 01:29:21.649
But those philosophies like we talked about are everything.
01:29:21.649 --> 01:29:23.314
Yeah, totally so for you.
01:29:23.314 --> 01:29:32.737
In that position you could just connect to other people that are they have a good idea of design or, let's say, their brand is kind of on point, at least you know they're not just completely alien to it yeah and then they can.
01:29:33.719 --> 01:29:47.582
The nuance and the examples they give are relevant to your people yeah right, and that's why people that we work with sometimes I like to say that like you, kind of want to be one step out of the detail to really connect with a broader people.
01:29:47.582 --> 01:29:48.533
So I'll give you an example.
01:29:48.533 --> 01:29:58.712
We work with a lot of sales podcasts, a lot of guys in sales, yeah, and the thing with sales is that the principles and practices and tactics and techniques are they're largely familiar.
01:29:58.712 --> 01:30:12.453
You got cold calling, cold email, uh, social media, dms for the most part, and got calls, whereas a lot of guys will have specific examples for, let's say, b2b sales in a german market, and the guys get kind of lost in the fucking the nuance.
01:30:12.453 --> 01:30:14.219
Right, they're like, oh, but I need to speak to this way.
01:30:14.219 --> 01:30:21.912
I'm like, no, no, no guys will discover you because you're sharing cold call techniques yeah when they come and speak to you or when they see the landing page.
01:30:21.931 --> 01:30:26.952
you can put the word b2b in there german speaking only but they have to connect with you first.
01:30:26.952 --> 01:30:34.720
But if you go down this rabbit hole of design businesses that are manufactured in japan and japan only to south australia, who the fuck is in that?
01:30:34.720 --> 01:30:48.722
Because the problem with this is that you now have to find people to listen that like podcasts, which is small, and then you have to like design podcasts, and then design podcasts that are also based in Australia, also do e-com and also do e-com in Japan.
01:30:48.722 --> 01:30:51.028
There's like eight people in Australia that.
01:30:51.047 --> 01:30:51.210
Do that.
01:30:51.210 --> 01:30:52.936
Yeah, it's like layered Facebook targeting.
01:30:53.198 --> 01:30:53.358
Right.
01:30:53.358 --> 01:30:56.614
So it's like that's the reason why you get seven views.
01:30:56.614 --> 01:31:08.176
So if we took a step out of all of that and just focus on design principles and then, when they click on the landing page, your specialty is import, export yeah not even to do with japan and australia, just import, export right.
01:31:08.176 --> 01:31:14.179
So it's just like we just flip the script, the positioning yeah, I think that's what I've been really focused on, even with my marketing.
01:31:14.238 --> 01:31:17.731
Is that, ideally, we want to, you know, done for you off.
01:31:17.731 --> 01:31:25.694
We want to work people like tech companies you know, hsbc, standard charities, salesforce.
01:31:25.694 --> 01:31:26.877
You want to work with those bigger guys.
01:31:26.877 --> 01:31:31.341
But we don't need to call them out and have their been like they're you in salesforce and do this.
01:31:31.341 --> 01:31:35.957
We can just basically call the people that have podcasts that are ran as a marketing channel for their business.
01:31:35.957 --> 01:31:40.198
One person business, 15 000 people business, same shit.
01:31:40.198 --> 01:31:42.547
Yeah, we're doing the same shit.
01:31:42.547 --> 01:31:43.490
Nothing changes.
01:31:43.551 --> 01:31:48.934
And that's where the podcast space got it wrong, because when people try to look at it as a marketing channel, they said, oh, it's b2b.
01:31:48.934 --> 01:31:56.199
And I was like no, yes, we can repurpose it as a blog and a newsletter and stuff, but you're still missing.
01:31:56.199 --> 01:31:57.807
Again, go where the money's at.
01:31:57.807 --> 01:32:03.061
Yeah, there's people that just want to use a podcast as a vessel to make more money and connect to people.
01:32:03.061 --> 01:32:03.564
And there's the.
01:32:03.564 --> 01:32:05.930
You know it goes back to um cash advertising.
01:32:05.930 --> 01:32:10.265
There's the early is the intrinsic, motivation and extrinsic, you know.
01:32:10.265 --> 01:32:12.033
So the intrinsic is like social status.
01:32:12.033 --> 01:32:14.721
Extrinsic is return on investment.
01:32:14.721 --> 01:32:20.055
Yeah, you know, but you, but you play that balance right and, for me taking fucking thousands of sales calls.
01:32:20.055 --> 01:32:20.676
I understand.
01:32:20.676 --> 01:32:22.822
I just understand what people want from a podcast.
01:32:23.021 --> 01:32:23.583
Yeah, totally.
01:32:23.583 --> 01:32:36.353
Is there anything that you do with the way that you set up the structure of the delivery of somebody's episode to optimize towards short form content and like repurposing, or is that just?
01:32:36.353 --> 01:32:42.515
Hey, let's just mine that two hours and see if there's stuff in it?
01:32:42.817 --> 01:32:43.690
there's different ways to look at it.
01:32:43.690 --> 01:32:46.516
So one we focus on video first.
01:32:46.516 --> 01:32:47.359
I said I see before.
01:32:47.359 --> 01:33:01.658
So a video first podcast gives you as much leverage as possible, because it's like a waterfall if you focus on a nailing, a really strong video, that will waterfall into audio and then a waterfall into linkedin, instagram, twitter and then it can be rewritten as your newsletter.
01:33:01.658 --> 01:33:07.560
Whereas if you focus on audio first, you're not going to have that ability because audio first means that you're very restricted.
01:33:07.560 --> 01:33:09.176
You don't have that much levers.
01:33:09.176 --> 01:33:16.240
Now, in doing so with a great video, you can have good lighting, good setup, good elegance around the video.
01:33:16.240 --> 01:33:23.341
And then we've already talked about the strategy being dialed in and now it becomes how you show up and not be a potato on the internet.
01:33:23.341 --> 01:33:28.722
So how clear, succinct you are, how you, the energy you bring into it.
01:33:28.722 --> 01:33:34.229
So almost like, how do we prime it like that without doing it as a vessel just for short form?
01:33:34.229 --> 01:33:34.630
Yeah.
01:33:34.810 --> 01:33:48.478
Because if, because my best, my best self, is literally sitting here and just talking, yeah, you know, whereas when I try to do the talking head videos, the short form videos, even though I'm a good speaker, I just you lose the magic.
01:33:48.478 --> 01:34:01.481
I lose the magic Exactly, whereas, like me, my zone of genius is, like here, feeling comfortable with someone telling them stories, telling them vice versa, and then all that kind of magic happens and then that can be repurposed for short form and so on.
01:34:01.481 --> 01:34:04.542
But again, the goal of a podcast is not short form.
01:34:04.542 --> 01:34:06.270
The goal of the podcast is the podcast.
01:34:06.270 --> 01:34:15.840
Yeah, and that's what most people get wrong, because they've seen the big boys get 60 000 views a clip and it's like that wasn't the goal of the podcast.
01:34:16.159 --> 01:34:30.792
Yeah, the goal is the long form trust authority brand yeah and the short form is the short form and they just got so good at their long form that you can cut parts out of it yeah, it's like going to the gym to train for a marathon.
01:34:31.193 --> 01:34:49.733
It's like, okay, being physically fit and healthy will help for marathon training, but my bench press does not mean I'm going to run better yeah but because I was an athlete in the gym and a bodybuilder, I'm primed to probably run at a good level yeah but it's like we're solving the wrong.
01:34:50.414 --> 01:35:00.854
We're solving a problem in the with the wrong solution yeah, got it and like anyone can view that as like stupid, but for some reason people talk to care more about their short form versus their long form.
01:35:00.854 --> 01:35:02.859
You know it's a weird thing.
01:35:02.859 --> 01:35:08.494
And then there's the other side of it then, which is like, what are you optimizing for?
01:35:08.494 --> 01:35:31.350
Like, all the downstream effects of like revenue and leads and sales is a byproduct of building a really good content system, no-transcript.
01:35:31.350 --> 01:35:54.260
And then design is a vessel that you've used to get there and that's very true of when people come in, like the majority of people that I meet through my podcast will always say, always mention they understand my values because I just like I'm very, very dialed in in terms of like what I believe and you know, back to the worldview yeah, yeah back to the world and that's evolved for me, being a 24 year old kid not having a clue what I'm doing, to being four years later.
01:35:54.300 --> 01:36:00.198
You know, yeah, but people can see that at an essence level and I'm not making it up because you don't.
01:36:00.238 --> 01:36:39.657
You can't make it up over 240 episodes because the cracks would fester in totally whereas if I see someone's lambo on their instagram reel, I know it's manufactured yeah, totally yeah, the, the, this, like there's something that I discovered with my content like is like I can dramatically improve all of the content, like I've always been of the idea that it's the ideas that you circulate, circulate that are really important, but I'm I'm probably also understanding that there's a heap of optimizations around, like my video stuff, that that would allow things to to move to another level.
01:36:39.657 --> 01:36:45.707
So, like do you think it's better to like I just basically recorded in our spare bedroom in our villa?
01:36:45.707 --> 01:36:52.439
Yeah, but like is it better to dedicate a day a month to come into here and and produce it this way?
01:36:53.662 --> 01:36:56.359
it's all about how you want to show up, right, it's like what?
01:36:56.359 --> 01:37:00.012
Like it makes sense for me to do this because we have a podcast business and also I would.
01:37:00.012 --> 01:37:06.555
I prefer to do this, but even my home setup is still super dull, like I have all these cameras, all these, all the equipment and whatnot.
01:37:06.555 --> 01:37:12.569
But then you've someone like charlie morgan or william brown who have these super raw videos because there's a counterculture, right for every trend.
01:37:12.609 --> 01:37:19.761
There's a counter trend, yeah and I spoke to rory sutherland about this for a very long time which is like when you have ai, you have natural conversations.
01:37:19.761 --> 01:37:22.532
When you have bodybuilding, you've high rocks.
01:37:22.532 --> 01:37:23.835
There's always an ebb and flow.
01:37:23.835 --> 01:37:28.913
Ebb and flow well, but it's all about where you want to sit yourself, situate yourself in that.
01:37:28.913 --> 01:37:38.771
You know, because I, I guess, to some degree, take myself more seriously I prefer that brand is designed, look, and it's just more of a natural flow to me.
01:37:38.771 --> 01:37:57.601
Like I feel like if I met a good guest and he would come to my house and we'll just record with some iphones, I wouldn't feel as natural with that yeah, totally you get me yeah um, even like we're going to the us soon and I floated to a guy that we would do it in his house, it made me anxious because I was like now I gotta what if?
01:37:57.783 --> 01:37:59.314
what if he's using tiles as a floor?
01:37:59.314 --> 01:37:59.876
Yeah, and that totally.
01:37:59.876 --> 01:38:06.171
And that for me, then is at odds to the way that I want to show up, yeah, and present just who I am and not showcase bullshit.
01:38:06.171 --> 01:38:07.354
But it's just the way that I'm.
01:38:07.354 --> 01:38:09.777
What do I value?
01:38:09.777 --> 01:38:11.859
Yeah, you know yeah.
01:38:12.240 --> 01:38:15.164
So, like you could be, it's more like what do I think?
01:38:15.164 --> 01:38:19.914
What content am I comfortable producing?
01:38:19.914 --> 01:38:33.447
It's like it comes down to your root belief of what content should be and like, I'm sure, at a level, like your biases are, like content should be well-produced, because I enjoy well-produced content.
01:38:33.447 --> 01:38:41.436
You know what I mean and like what I've found is this is just my crackpot theory and I might be completely wrong.
01:38:41.436 --> 01:38:44.350
Wrong, but my space is over polished.
01:38:44.350 --> 01:38:55.600
So the minute that I come in with a grainy, those videos, those raw videos on the whiteboard yeah, it's like something magical happens because it's so disruptive in nature.
01:38:55.680 --> 01:39:05.520
People are like christo is so polished and it's like the best looking content ever and it's super valuable but some of his videos aren't though, because he used them from workshops.
01:39:06.231 --> 01:39:09.059
Yeah, but there's a wide angle do you get me, but they're still.
01:39:09.259 --> 01:39:17.778
They're still like, but they're the most optimally produced based on the context yeah does that make sense?
01:39:17.837 --> 01:39:24.725
Whereas up the other end you've got Charlie Morgan, and I love both.
01:39:24.725 --> 01:39:38.145
Yeah, like there's Charlie, and what I love about Charlie Morgan's content is you're getting something that only a $10 million a year entrepreneur can tell you.
01:39:38.145 --> 01:39:48.951
You know what I mean, and I kind of like err more towards his way of thinking, because I think it's more about the ip than it is the presentation of the ip.
01:39:48.951 --> 01:39:58.778
And the other thing that I've noticed is I get people that come in who are like they're like get it, they're like I get it.
01:39:58.778 --> 01:40:00.000
The polish.
01:40:00.000 --> 01:40:09.975
The polish as a designer is not the most important thing, it's it's the, the fundamentals under it, and I feel like really good content.
01:40:09.975 --> 01:40:20.854
It brings in people that their biases around, around things that don't have as much leverage if that makes sense in my market personally, you're right.
01:40:20.875 --> 01:40:23.279
You're right, man, and your customers are a reflection of you, right?
01:40:23.279 --> 01:40:39.335
So, like, if you're telling people that it has to be super specific and perfect, well, it's the optics, again right, but you're optimizing for the wrong metric, whereas, like somebody, charlie morgan is optimizing for the content yeah because that's the vessel of how he got to where he is and how he can help you get to that point too.
01:40:39.876 --> 01:40:40.577
Same point, right.
01:40:40.577 --> 01:40:43.902
So it's like more of like a spectrum, you know.
01:40:43.902 --> 01:40:48.222
But again, this is the funny thing is that with a lot of things in business, there's no right way.
01:40:48.222 --> 01:40:51.975
It's not ads versus content, it's not unpolished versus polished.
01:40:51.975 --> 01:41:03.372
It's about what way do you does darren lee want to show up like in his truest form, which can be either, can be neither, can be hanging upside down from a tree, right?
01:41:03.372 --> 01:41:07.101
It's just whatever suits me best that I actually really enjoy.
01:41:07.122 --> 01:41:18.914
Yeah, like um, after covid, there was a big push to to go into studios for podcasts and we were one of the early people that like really nailed the video on long form.
01:41:18.914 --> 01:41:26.197
But at the same time I didn't want to give up the reach I had online for getting any guests and so on and so forth.
01:41:26.197 --> 01:41:38.207
So I stayed in the online space still, but doing a nice marriage of the two when most people wouldn't and most people's podcast never, never, uh continued because they tried to do low uh in person and they could.
01:41:38.207 --> 01:41:43.113
They had to be in London or Dubai or Bali, miami, and it just was not operationally.
01:41:43.113 --> 01:41:53.051
Logistically, work works right, whereas for me I can do four episodes in a week, recording months content right there, and just do them all from my bedroom, you know okay, so they.
01:41:54.976 --> 01:41:56.180
So that that was my next question.
01:41:56.180 --> 01:41:59.771
How do you deal with solving the challenge of not being face to face?
01:42:00.814 --> 01:42:16.391
yeah, it's just more so, like how you show up, as, like a lot of these guys that I'm interviewing in particular are guys in the content space, so they know the game, you know, and especially they understand the content of like, repurposing, like, even giving you these files afterwards, like I can obviously point you in the right direction of how to create them or use them.
01:42:16.391 --> 01:42:25.938
Or we, what we actually do is we create content for guests sometimes we do in our program too, so we teach people how to create content for people to post about the content for their guests.
01:42:25.938 --> 01:42:36.355
So I'm interviewing people who are kind of in the I call it creator entrepreneurs guys who create content as their main vessel for their business, but not like a creator.
01:42:36.355 --> 01:42:39.720
This could be a Chris Doe or Hermosi Matt Gray, justin Welsh.
01:42:39.720 --> 01:42:40.951
They're more creator entrepreneurs.
01:42:40.951 --> 01:42:43.215
This could be a Chris Doe or Hermosi Matt Gray, justin Welsh they're more creator entrepreneurs.
01:42:43.215 --> 01:42:46.019
So they're the guys that the content pops and that can be remote or whatnot.
01:42:46.059 --> 01:42:58.653
So, like, I recorded two podcasts with Justin Welsh you know Justin, yeah, I know him well and like the first one, you know it was very it was just like yeah, hop on a call, zoom, call, whatever.
01:42:58.653 --> 01:42:59.314
And then the second one.
01:42:59.314 --> 01:43:12.472
We met in New York and we were sitting in like a lobby together and we had a lot of similarities, like he loves dogs, we love dogs, and my partner and we ended up bear in mind it's justin welsh and we're spending 30 minutes talking about dogs- yeah, that's hilarious you know what I mean.
01:43:12.493 --> 01:43:17.452
He's like known for all of this stuff yeah, this business shit, and like we're just literally talking about random dogs.
01:43:17.452 --> 01:43:18.694
He's like I love this type of dog.
01:43:18.694 --> 01:43:19.454
I'm like same.
01:43:19.454 --> 01:43:23.041
It's just so weird that that wouldn't have happened remotely.
01:43:23.041 --> 01:43:26.109
But you can plant seeds remotely though, right, yeah, do you get me?
01:43:26.109 --> 01:43:30.418
Yeah, totally, so you can still do a lot of cool shit remotely it.
01:43:30.519 --> 01:43:35.012
It seems, um, it seems like the effort in person is way less.
01:43:35.012 --> 01:43:40.543
It just kind of rolls more because it like for me, like that there's.
01:43:40.543 --> 01:43:51.518
There's people that, like I've, I've jumped onto the the call with to do a podcast, like a student that's done a really good job of, you know, closing their first six-figure deal or or reaching a milestone.
01:43:51.518 --> 01:43:57.894
Some people go into presentation mode, some people just just chat.
01:43:58.295 --> 01:44:04.974
We're just chatting, yeah, we just if anything, I wouldn't have had a hit record button, it would just been recording already.
01:44:05.014 --> 01:44:24.921
We just come in like, oh, we just start going yeah, totally and like I've kind of went full 180 with that, like because I used to be like a retention whore where about, like, I had to have like a really good intro, a really good baseline, all this kind of stuff, whereas now I kind of want to put people in their most relaxed seat and then intuitively have these things pop up, you know, um, but again it's nuanced, though.
01:44:24.921 --> 01:44:31.501
I think the thing with your students I checked out some of those videos is those guys may not be primed for content yeah, totally you know.
01:44:31.581 --> 01:44:43.554
So, like it's like if you're getting someone who knows the podcast, not a podcast space, but the concept of coming on and sharing their knowledge, which is why people who have launched a book are the best totally people in general.
01:44:43.554 --> 01:44:50.939
But, funnily enough, there's actually a correlation between like poor performing episodes and people have released books because they're kind of on a run.
01:44:50.939 --> 01:44:54.578
Yeah, that, like that content can be found on anyone's show.
01:44:54.578 --> 01:44:57.350
Yeah, I got it, but the content is super valuable.
01:44:57.350 --> 01:44:58.515
Yeah, like it's.
01:44:58.515 --> 01:45:00.342
It's a very unique episode.
01:45:00.342 --> 01:45:07.240
It's not like the basis of like most podcasts because it's because it's the book, but it's a it's a weird one.
01:45:07.240 --> 01:45:11.221
It's a weird one because I've seen a lot of other podcasts, even on my own show.
01:45:11.221 --> 01:45:13.411
I'm like this deserves way more engagement.
01:45:14.313 --> 01:45:32.725
Um, do you see a lot of, because I've I've a lot of the time I just feel comfortable in monologue just kind of ranting around an idea and kind of just laying out it is, it is really tiring, but the other thing it doesn't.
01:45:34.591 --> 01:45:40.896
I'm not too concerned to produce a piece of content that goes for an hour, I'd rather just if it only takes me five minutes.
01:45:40.896 --> 01:45:50.975
If it takes me five minutes to get the point across, it's like does that piece of content contribute and create enough leverage?
01:45:50.975 --> 01:46:01.770
Or because you hear the story of like authors the first time incredible premise for a book, incredible IP going to a publisher and going.
01:46:01.770 --> 01:46:03.393
It's amazing.
01:46:03.393 --> 01:46:04.996
But we need another 200 pages.
01:46:04.996 --> 01:46:17.363
And then what happens with the book is you get the whole value of the book in the first third and then it's just a reiteration for the, the the following two thirds, because they needed to to hit their 400 page quota.
01:46:17.363 --> 01:46:18.408
Yeah, so is there?
01:46:18.408 --> 01:46:20.319
Is there kind of the same thing happening?
01:46:21.344 --> 01:46:21.505
well.
01:46:21.505 --> 01:46:27.079
If it's individual, like monologue, just you talking, then you don't need to labor on the point.
01:46:27.079 --> 01:46:32.283
You know, I think the best podcast scenarios are, I would determine, a podcast.
01:46:32.283 --> 01:46:41.394
You're much more like two people and it's more like flowy in between topics, like you see me do humbly turns and conversations not often because there's a way to do that.
01:46:41.394 --> 01:46:47.936
It's like a bridge topic and they're hard to do, even because a lot of this stuff is in my brain that I'm learning, that I've learned how to do these things.
01:46:48.779 --> 01:46:53.961
But you can only do hand turns in a podcast, not in a fucking individual video of how to improve someone's funnel.
01:46:53.961 --> 01:46:55.532
Right, that's the seven minute video.
01:46:55.532 --> 01:46:56.573
Yeah, yeah, but they are.
01:46:56.573 --> 01:47:01.543
But I mean, I didn't mean to say I'm exhausting, I meant to say authority to you earlier.
01:47:01.543 --> 01:47:07.981
But you're building more authority with individual videos whereas, like, it's true to grapevine, true to podcast.
01:47:08.002 --> 01:47:16.949
But that's why someone who's a beginner or starting works really well in the podcast context, because you can be the student and interview the biggest guest in the world.
01:47:16.949 --> 01:47:40.179
But just be someone who's inquisitive because, dude, if you're young, dumb, people who are super successful would love to cling to you, educate you totally and mentor you, and I've seen that with people that are 18 19 that have clung to me and I've helped a ton guys give up alcohol, start a business, fucking, leave their shitty nine to five just by virtue of the podcast.
01:47:40.179 --> 01:47:52.881
But similarly, the guests that I've on, some of the guys could be way further on, especially when I started and, um, they just like the philosophies, the values, the principle, the relentlessness.
01:47:52.881 --> 01:47:58.621
Like in a weak society, guys will fucking cling to someone who just doesn't give up.
01:47:58.621 --> 01:48:07.658
Yeah, anyway, like I remember hearing sal bloom says before being like you should just never bet against someone who's not willing to give up yeah, totally yeah, it's the funniest thing.
01:48:07.698 --> 01:48:10.930
If you just keep on going, that person is dangerous.
01:48:10.930 --> 01:48:28.172
Oh, 100% dangerous because they can, you can fill in the gaps yeah if you're making 10 15k a month, you can drop the 2k on a mastermind, learn all that shit to get to the 100k and that person is way more dangerous than someone who came for money or who's smart or got the business opportunity.
01:48:28.172 --> 01:48:31.046
Like those guys, they all fizzle out yeah and you're.
01:48:31.167 --> 01:48:37.773
You know, you're a little bit older than me, so you've probably seen the guys come in and out, but we're going to see a very interesting observation in the online business space, I think over the next couple years.
01:48:37.773 --> 01:48:40.815
Yeah, all these guys will go yeah, yeah, totally.
01:48:41.055 --> 01:49:00.817
And you see, like the, the other thing as well is that, like the, there might be a boom and bust with particular markets, um, and that's why I'm not, you shouldn't be interested in, in just learning everything in your community.
01:49:00.817 --> 01:49:04.996
It's really about trying to delve in, because what and what?
01:49:04.996 --> 01:49:11.913
Um, um, not james kemp, but the, the other james that was at the mastermind was kind of highlighting.
01:49:11.913 --> 01:49:21.863
Uh, the idea around is, is the more that you progress and the more you enter new environments, you learn how other people are moving in other ways.
01:49:21.863 --> 01:49:44.416
And, like, I know for a fact that and it should be for anyone and like, when you start living in different places and exposing yourself to different neighbors and your kids go to school with different parents and you know their kids and their parents, you start realizing, oh man, like that, there's people here that invest completely different to the way that I do.
01:49:44.416 --> 01:50:01.182
And the irony is in if, if I'm not absolutely stupid, the vast majority of of my worth will be the compounding of the cash flow, not the actual cash flow itself.
01:50:01.583 --> 01:50:07.734
Dude that's why like a six-figure business is how hard can you work?
01:50:07.734 --> 01:50:10.421
Seven-figure business business is like who can you hire?
01:50:10.421 --> 01:50:12.555
An eight-figure business is like who can you partner with?
01:50:12.555 --> 01:50:18.489
Yeah because, whether it's even cash flow, it's like where do we put the money and who's the guy that can take care of it, to invest it and whatnot?
01:50:18.489 --> 01:50:19.434
Yeah, it's.
01:50:19.434 --> 01:50:24.658
It's less to do with the actual execution, it's more to do with, like again, the leverage.
01:50:25.078 --> 01:50:32.814
Yeah, point of contact for leverage and that's an eight-figure cash flow business a year yeah you know, and I think, a guy, tim stoddard, who'd be great to connect with for yourself as well.
01:50:32.814 --> 01:50:36.853
He kind of instilled that with me because he's a little bit older than me mid-30s.
01:50:36.853 --> 01:50:39.457
They're doing like five and a half six million a year.
01:50:39.457 --> 01:50:44.496
He's barely doing 15 20 hours a week now and he's with four or five different portfolio companies.
01:50:44.496 --> 01:50:54.432
Some are info copy blogger is one of the companies, some are like seo and then he's an seo agency that has a full team that are doing done for you.
01:50:54.453 --> 01:50:57.600
Um, and that's what he said to me early on.
01:50:57.600 --> 01:51:01.609
He was like when you get good at something, you almost don't need to work anymore.
01:51:01.609 --> 01:51:04.302
You just need to find the right partner to elevate with.
01:51:04.302 --> 01:51:12.893
And that's even what we're thinking of doing even here to build individual businesses here or whatnot, or or more or more asian partners, dude like.
01:51:12.893 --> 01:51:18.475
We have some partnerships with some crazy studios in the world for their back end and for our coaching program.
01:51:18.475 --> 01:51:21.984
All it took was an email yeah, yeah an email and a call.
01:51:22.810 --> 01:51:23.391
Let's wrap up.
01:51:23.391 --> 01:51:25.475
Dude, gotta head to the airport oh, yeah, yeah, good boy.
00:00:00.119 --> 00:00:03.149
A lot of what can get people into trouble is success.
00:00:03.149 --> 00:00:05.403
To a degree, I think of opportunity.
00:00:05.403 --> 00:00:06.668
Just think of a big tank.
00:00:06.668 --> 00:00:09.329
It's completely waterproof and airproof, but there's two holes.
00:00:09.329 --> 00:00:17.910
The more opportunity that comes into the tank, the greater the velocity at which you can charge your prices and the greater the level of stuff that you can get away with.
00:00:17.910 --> 00:00:19.507
Everybody has intellectual property.
00:00:19.507 --> 00:00:24.897
It's what they have that allows them to mechanically get a desired outcome for themselves.
00:00:24.897 --> 00:00:28.067
That could be massively valuable if in the hands of somebody else.
00:00:28.187 --> 00:00:32.003
Before we start this week's episode, I have one little favor to ask you.
00:00:32.003 --> 00:00:37.622
Can you please leave a five-star rating below, so we can help more people every single week.
00:00:37.622 --> 00:00:38.103
Thank you.
00:00:38.625 --> 00:00:49.186
The most important thing that you can do is spread ideas with your content and then, if people want to chat to you about those ideas, then you have something of profitable merit.
00:00:50.731 --> 00:00:51.231
Give an example.
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Yeah, so you might be just like hey, I've come up with this cool new idea to use AI to reduce the amount of time that I spend in my Gmail inbox, right, and then put your hand up and and comment pdf if you want the two-page pdf that I've put together to show you how to do it.
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Everybody that comments pdf has invested a microsecond to type pdf, which infers that one to five percent of those people would be willing to transact on that idea.
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And then, out of those one to five percent, like we were discussing with james the other day, if you've got a hundred of those, there's arguably one to five percent of that one to five percent who are willing to invest ten to fifty thousand dollars to solve that problem and then, from an odds perspective, you're looking to ramp that because the one percent of ten people is much better to get one percent of ten thousand people yeah, yeah, so then.
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So then the game becomes how do we economically manipulate the front end so that we can break even, so that we can, like by a factor of ten, increase the search base?
00:02:02.346 --> 00:02:23.182
So, instead of and that's that's why there's so much opportunity in the market is because most people are looking at oh well, you know, if I reach out to 100 people, um, and only one percent of them's interested, that's, that's a heap of work and it's like, yeah, but not if you can figure out how to build a paid traffic engine that allows you to get in front of 100 000 people a day.
00:02:23.182 --> 00:02:24.484
That pays for itself.
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Now, those 15 people, instead of taking a year to find them, you can find them in a week, you know okay, man, this is super interesting.
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We're just trying to deepen.
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So how do you?
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Because ads is still super new and novel to me.
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You'll love this.
00:02:38.544 --> 00:02:39.627
Um will brown.
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Yeah, he was like teaching me like to run ads and shit and uh, I went through like his program and stuff, just like specifically to learn ads Cause we never have done it.
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But now we have the capital to do it because the business is validated, especially the coaching, it's valid to do it.
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Anyway, he was kind of recommending going to a few to add agencies and like some of them are super expensive, but he like recommended me to do it, but he wasn't forcing it.
00:03:02.645 --> 00:03:12.550
He was, but he like recommended me to do it, but he did, he wasn't forcing, he was like it's already, it's a good idea, and I was like, oh yeah, it's fine, whatever, I'll just figure it out.
00:03:12.591 --> 00:03:32.461
Set up the google account, one second later suspended, really one second later, dude, probably because you're fresh, I don't know and the reason being was because the card was a digital bank card, yeah, and it was based in ireland or lithuania, where the bank is registered, and, um, yeah, google just goes goodbye on that and I was like fuck sake, dude, that was actually like last week.
00:03:32.461 --> 00:03:46.270
So the reason I'm saying this is because, like, I've learned the concepts, obviously in implementing or whatever, but then there's all those nuances yeah so when you are running your ads, how do you think about what to give them on the back end?
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is it a lead magnet?
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Is it a low ticket offer?
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How do you think about that process?
00:03:51.413 --> 00:03:56.370
Yeah, so this episode of kickoff sessions is sponsored by 10 plus.
00:03:56.370 --> 00:04:01.264
I've been using 10 plus in a hot tropical climate for electrolytes, for also hydration.
00:04:01.264 --> 00:04:05.133
Keep up with training and also my performance in my podcast and in my business.
00:04:05.133 --> 00:04:10.209
10 Plus is actually designed to enhance performance, specifically in tropical climates.
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00:04:16.627 --> 00:04:22.420
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00:04:22.420 --> 00:04:27.262
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00:04:27.262 --> 00:04:38.884
So check out 10 plus and you'll be able to get access to a wide range of their products to enhance your performance, improve your hydration and also be able to perform at a better level ads is.
00:04:39.264 --> 00:04:41.629
it's really just trying to start the conversation.
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And the best thing you can do with the front end ad well, like you obviously have to start at the conversation and the best thing you can do with the front end ad well, like you obviously have to start at the back and go what are you actually selling?
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What's the high ticket thing?
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Is it services?
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Is it like a project process?
00:04:55.975 --> 00:04:57.480
Is it training or coaching?
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And then ask yourself, what is the one immediate, quickest wing that you can give to people that's hyper-tangible in the shortest timeframe, and you pull that out and that's generally the best lead magnet.
00:05:12.591 --> 00:05:16.571
So then the more valuable that thing is, the better.
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And then you end up with hey, this is $100 product on the front end.
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We will get you this outcome in the next week if you just follow the instructions in this.
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And then what that allows people to do is have a win and that's probably more important, engineer a product that gets people a win on the front end.
00:05:36.089 --> 00:05:42.408
And if you can just break even on selling that offer, then you have all of these people that you're getting wins.
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They want to continue the conversation, so you don't even have to worry about it connecting so much.
00:05:50.291 --> 00:06:07.449
Just get somebody a win on the front so you might be helping somebody with like a podcast and you might be like here's how to build the structure for the next 60 episodes of your podcast in less than two hours.
00:06:07.449 --> 00:06:10.509
So that's super tangible.
00:06:10.509 --> 00:06:15.682
It doesn't have to be exactly perfect, but at least they're like man.
00:06:15.682 --> 00:06:23.394
I'm going to see my next 60 episodes and the name of my podcast when at the moment I've got nothing but the intent to do so.
00:06:23.394 --> 00:06:29.490
At least you've kind of got them to an outcome, and then they associate all that progress to you.
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So it's only natural that the conversation advances with you in the picture.
00:06:35.630 --> 00:06:36.874
Fuck man.
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That's super interesting, because I would think that it would just be you'd get them into some sort of VSL and then it's you're hammering them for the high ticket approach yeah, or you have a sales team or whatnot.
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Now, obviously, there's no one way to do things, but the way that you kind of scale.
00:06:51.185 --> 00:06:53.771
It's really good and we can talk about your offer too.
00:06:53.771 --> 00:06:56.725
I want to actually ask you about a random question first, though.
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Yeah, go explain to me the bank robbery in chicago story.
00:07:01.341 --> 00:07:04.187
Uh-huh, yeah and I mean I've, I've.
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I forget the origins of it, but that's so funny that you found that.
00:07:08.821 --> 00:07:12.531
I don't even know how you found it, but it's, it's, it's.
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It's just a really simple story that, if you continually remember it, everything is really simple.
00:07:20.468 --> 00:07:24.043
So, basically, I think 1890s.
00:07:24.043 --> 00:07:27.322
Every time I tell this story I probably get the the time, the timing right.
00:07:27.322 --> 00:07:30.827
It's 1880s to 1890s.
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Um, there was a guy running around chicago robbing banks and they caught him after the the fourth or fifth go and they had him in in the jail cell and they're like why do you keep robbing these banks?
00:07:43.685 --> 00:07:46.382
And he just answered because that's where the money is.
00:07:46.382 --> 00:08:03.305
And I like, I like to, I like to bring it up with everybody that I'm helping, um, both in my design business and obviously with the coaching program as well, because people forget that the most important thing is where is the money actually located?
00:08:03.305 --> 00:08:10.627
So another metaphor to think about is business is the game of extracting oil out of the ground.
00:08:10.627 --> 00:08:14.591
It's like where is it so that we can extract it?
00:08:15.521 --> 00:08:35.265
And generally technicians and people that love their craft work really hard at building the engineering equipment to get the stuff out of the ground, to the point that they lose focus on where the fucking oil is, and it's it's the people that know where the oil is and it's the people that know where to set up that make the real money.
00:08:35.265 --> 00:09:12.307
So if, if you've got a 10 out of 10 ability to find oil reserves and you've got a bucket, you will make 100x uh versus a company that are the best engineering company extracting oil from the ground, who don't know where to put it that's so powerful man, and that's the beauty of selling something before building it yeah which, again, I learned from william right was that I would come up with a hypothesis or what I was doing in the podcast space when we had done for you is different because, like you can't ask someone what they want, right, but in the coaching you can build it around what they want.
00:09:12.908 --> 00:09:22.166
So remember, I booked 50 calls, took all 50, asked everyone what they're struggling with, said I could solve every single problem, wrote it down the spreadsheet and just created a video around it.
00:09:22.427 --> 00:09:29.682
Yeah, that's literally how it happened and then what's what people, where people were, which is in like, linkedin and just going towards that.
00:09:29.682 --> 00:09:37.796
Now we are opening up instagram because I think for one-off payments there's a good opportunity for people on instagram because they're kind of younger demographic.
00:09:37.796 --> 00:09:45.610
Yeah, whereas, like for me, all, like the c-suite executives were all in linkedin for the first two years for a business, um, so again it's like.
00:09:45.610 --> 00:09:49.730
This is an interesting point which I have had to gone around to.
00:09:49.730 --> 00:09:56.352
You know, in the online space, everyone is like they have these hard beliefs that they don't even believe.
00:09:56.352 --> 00:10:03.027
Is it ads, organic agency versus coaching, sales calls, no sales calls.
00:10:03.027 --> 00:10:07.894
But they attach their self-worth to that random process.
00:10:07.894 --> 00:10:10.587
It's not even an outcome, it's just a fucking process.
00:10:10.587 --> 00:10:15.662
And then they're like oh, we're not going to do sales calls because we're like better than that, or we're not going to run ads because we're better than that.
00:10:15.662 --> 00:10:25.440
My thesis, especially if you're like broke and you're trying to make as much money as possible that's what you're optimizing for is that you need to have no personal like ties to any of these metrics.
00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:27.345
Yeah, just view them as individual vessels.
00:10:27.345 --> 00:10:33.138
So, again, you know, going where the money is at, guys will be like oh, I want to focus on instagram because I can also use it for dating.
00:10:33.138 --> 00:10:44.610
Genuinely, that's people's brains, right where it's like no, if you go to your virtue signaling woke linkedin account, that's where you can make a ton of money, but you're just too proud to go over there.
00:10:44.912 --> 00:10:48.769
Yeah, and I've had that debate with a lot of twitter guys, so it's fucking so funny.
00:10:48.769 --> 00:11:02.482
I've been in like the podcast content space for a long time, much longer than I was like an entrepreneur, so I was like content first and that, and I had met a lot of the really big guys on twitter and they were all like oh, like linkedin's so gay.
00:11:02.482 --> 00:11:07.212
And I was dude, like your business would just be so much bigger if you were just on LinkedIn.
00:11:07.212 --> 00:11:15.552
And they're like oh, yeah, I don't know whatever Slowly but surely every single one of them started to move over, move over, move over.
00:11:15.900 --> 00:11:22.369
Now to the point that they're actually bigger on this platform, making way more money, and Twitter is like something that's just a hobby.
00:11:22.369 --> 00:11:29.551
Yeah, and it's just ironic because, like, even the guys at the very, very top of the game still don't follow where the money trails are right.
00:11:29.551 --> 00:11:30.905
And Sean Haniff said that to me.
00:11:30.905 --> 00:11:31.962
He was like, at the end of the day.
00:11:31.962 --> 00:11:36.206
Your only job as a CEO is to wake up, see where the money is and just go towards it every day.
00:11:36.508 --> 00:12:00.856
Yeah, and that's the hard thing, though, is that every trail and habit of activities builds an identity that becomes calcified, and then every time, even though the logic in your head can be like oh well, this, this is just blatantly obvious, a better thing to do, it's like, but I'm already this person and yeah and that's.
00:12:00.956 --> 00:12:01.899
That's like that.
00:12:01.899 --> 00:12:04.585
That was the toughest thing for me, like the.
00:12:04.585 --> 00:12:14.986
The reason it took me like eight years to get my ass into gear is because I was holding too much onto the ego of trying to become a rock star designer.
00:12:14.986 --> 00:12:23.672
And then the minute you're like the minute you kind of hit rock bottom and go well, fuck, there's no pot of gold at the end of this.
00:12:23.672 --> 00:12:30.544
It's way too much effort for such a minimal return.
00:12:30.846 --> 00:12:42.402
When you get to that, that, like rock bottom component, it's like well, I'm happy to construct with whatever meaningful things there are in front of me now because I've broken the old model.
00:12:42.402 --> 00:12:45.490
I understand that the old model won't be a vehicle to get me to where I am.
00:12:45.490 --> 00:13:10.626
So a lot of what can get people into trouble is success to a degree, and that's why a lot of really successful entrepreneurs are super sporadic and they can pivot, because they understand that the vehicles that they're building, like a bike, can only go so fast, a motorcycle can only go so fast, a Ferrari can only go so fast.
00:13:10.626 --> 00:13:18.110
You're not going to be able to get to supersonic speed, being the best peddler of a push bike.
00:13:19.801 --> 00:13:20.846
So true man.
00:13:21.179 --> 00:13:22.846
And so, like that's the annoying thing.
00:13:22.846 --> 00:13:28.542
So, like you know, like, as awesome as it was to go to James' mastermind, it's also.
00:13:28.542 --> 00:13:32.049
They're like oh fuck, I'm starting from scratch again.
00:13:32.049 --> 00:13:33.293
In what way?
00:13:33.293 --> 00:13:43.690
Well, the existing model isn't the model that's going to get me to the next level of where I want to get to.
00:13:43.690 --> 00:13:45.386
It has flaws.
00:13:45.408 --> 00:13:57.075
So so let's, especially for people and for myself, like so, mod, you have right now what's the offer and what you were doing at a high level and then where do you want to get to and like what's that offer?
00:13:57.075 --> 00:13:59.524
Stock and lifestyle look like yeah.
00:13:59.563 --> 00:14:02.390
So like I'll give you like just a bit context.
00:14:02.390 --> 00:14:19.707
So I've got a design studio that's Australian-based, that we do probably 60 to 100 grand a month and that's just purely ads and email outreach to Chinese manufacturers and that does pretty well.
00:14:19.707 --> 00:14:40.830
But the problem with it it doesn't scale because of the amount of complexity, like the tooling and the, the setup cost for like even an arm like this for this podcast can cost like 300 400 grand and if you make a mistake you're liable as the designer and the person being responsible for the manufacturer so it's a very you're not even a designer, you're an engineer.
00:14:41.552 --> 00:14:47.249
Yeah, well, it's design and engineering, like an industrial designer is, is hey, we've got this cool idea for a product.
00:14:47.249 --> 00:14:55.528
We boom, make 10 000 of them, and our job is to design it and then figure out how it actually gets produced in the factory.
00:14:55.528 --> 00:15:04.322
So it's, it's very fun, it's very rewarding, but it's it's a horrible business model to scale because of the amount of risk associated.
00:15:04.322 --> 00:15:12.990
The minute you juggle five or six projects, you can easily make a mistake, and you know, I've made a couple of mistakes that have cost us a quarter of a million dollars.
00:15:12.990 --> 00:15:15.664
So it scares.
00:15:15.664 --> 00:15:17.687
It's like, oh man, and I'm not even in Australia.
00:15:17.687 --> 00:15:20.028
So it's like, how do you mitigate the risk?
00:15:20.028 --> 00:15:22.548
Well, you only work on one or two projects at a time.
00:15:22.548 --> 00:15:33.225
Okay, cool, that business model can't go any further because I live in bali.
00:15:33.245 --> 00:15:35.414
Um, how do we, how do we figure out how to take advantage of the intellectual property that I've acquired?
00:15:35.414 --> 00:15:44.621
Well, you know, profitable design is a byproduct of people, um, me reaching out, trying to get other, more people, to work for us and and kind of contract to my design business.
00:15:44.621 --> 00:15:47.881
Them going, nah, but how the hell did you get so busy?
00:15:47.881 --> 00:15:55.306
So then, that's what provided the motivation to be like there's a opportunity here to sell the ip of how I built this whole thing.
00:15:55.306 --> 00:16:13.501
Um, so we got, we sell, uh, an eight to ten thousand dollar training program um 25, five to thirty six thousand dollar, um private coaching, and then a a massive array of like hundred, hundred to two hundred dollar products that we run ads to.
00:16:13.501 --> 00:16:16.727
Um, what was that?
00:16:16.727 --> 00:16:17.769
What was the rest of the question?
00:16:18.191 --> 00:16:23.969
like how does that uh piece in terms of the operating model, where but where you want to get to?
00:16:23.969 --> 00:16:25.413
Also from a lifestyle perspective?
00:16:25.413 --> 00:16:38.509
So, let's say, profitable designer, with the A-tick, a-thousands and the higher approach and the lower approach, whatever what's the workload that you're doing right now and how intensive is that and how much does it bear a cost on you personally as well?
00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:52.913
Yeah, like it's only both businesses combined are probably only 30 hours a week, but 15 hours of that 30 is like doing stuff that sucks.
00:16:52.913 --> 00:16:56.063
It's like dealing with.
00:16:56.063 --> 00:17:01.374
It's basically just the nature of the problems that arise if that makes sense.
00:17:01.779 --> 00:17:27.083
Slack becomes a problem solving solving machine versus anything else well like, but basically what what ends up happening is like the more momentum that I've created in a business that basically all of the staff that I pay get to deal with all the things that are working well, but my job is to fix all the things that break.
00:17:27.083 --> 00:17:38.176
So the credit card breaking down with facebook or um us getting like mass spammed on the email and and all of our emails stop communicating.
00:17:38.176 --> 00:17:44.470
There's no individual person in the team that can solve these very fluid thinking problems.
00:17:44.470 --> 00:17:59.130
So you spend most of your time basically just maintaining the machine, because most things aren't supposed to work at scale Like even a lot of software like Stripe, doesn't work at scale.
00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:02.167
You start running into issues.
00:18:02.167 --> 00:18:26.545
If a couple of people provide, you know, request refunds, then they start to put like a couple of people provide, you know, request refunds, then they start to put like a question mark over your account even though we've got, like you know like, probably twelve and a half thousand transactions, and then ads start to capitulate when you spend so much, and then payments overseas to contractors and and dealing with international money laundering rules if somebody's in south america.
00:18:26.545 --> 00:18:37.413
So you, you spend most of your time dealing with the byproduct of, of the success of what you've built, and and it and it becomes more coagulated as you progress.
00:18:37.413 --> 00:18:39.142
So what?
00:18:39.142 --> 00:19:08.537
What it is is the realization of oh, we have to rebuild, based on everywhere where the business is coagulating and kind of calcifying, if that makes sense and that's the awesome thing about you know, like meeting up with you a couple of weeks ago, for that mastermind was understanding that there's a way, more effective way, to build everything with fewer moving parts to get a better outcome in considerably less time.
00:19:10.001 --> 00:19:13.628
Would you do it all on your own, or are you still going to do it in a small team?
00:19:20.391 --> 00:19:26.852
I'm going to keep the team the same because I'm like super lucky with who's in the team.
00:19:26.852 --> 00:19:43.409
So you know, we've got three people here, and then we've got a salesperson, and then we've got, and then a setter, and then we've got two people that do outreach for the design business, and then obviously the design team in China and then obviously the design team in China.
00:19:43.409 --> 00:19:51.070
It's it's keeping the team the same, but it's changing the, the actual products and the services and the price points.
00:19:51.070 --> 00:19:55.227
That's where the vast majority of the change is going to come from.
00:19:55.628 --> 00:20:01.011
Yeah, cause again, we go back to the bicycle, motorbike, fucking Ferrari example.
00:20:01.011 --> 00:20:02.846
It's not like you're going back to zero.
00:20:02.846 --> 00:20:14.622
And this is what's interesting is that, for me, I used to always think that we'd have done, we've done for you offer, which is like our hero offer, and I would think that if we're adding in something else, I'm splitting focus, diluting focus.
00:20:14.622 --> 00:20:31.982
I'm doing two different things, but in theory we're still doing the same thing, which is we're making podcasts easy to grow, but we're just solving the problem differently and then, by unbundling and unbundling and unbundling, we're getting a higher return for the, for the pieces that we're unbundling.
00:20:31.982 --> 00:20:32.564
Does that make sense?
00:20:32.564 --> 00:20:42.903
Totally, but you have to spend the three, four years or the eight years or whatever to get to that point so that now you can run an almost simpler, more efficient side offer.
00:20:43.265 --> 00:20:51.842
You know, and like, in theory, if I was to go full james kemp, I'd get rid of the done for you, but I don't want to because of the fact that it makes so much money.
00:20:51.842 --> 00:20:57.482
Yeah, and it's a different model, like it's reoccurring high ticket, reoccurring high ticket every single month.
00:20:57.482 --> 00:21:02.541
You might not get a thousand people in there, but you don't need a thousand people in that 5k a month?
00:21:02.541 --> 00:21:02.702
Right?
00:21:02.702 --> 00:21:04.766
No, totally where, totally when it's like for me.
00:21:04.766 --> 00:21:15.650
The way I think about it is that the offer stack is to capture the economic model of everywhere else, but with just less time involved.
00:21:15.650 --> 00:21:19.327
You know, and also you've got to think about this way too.
00:21:19.327 --> 00:21:40.750
Because you've done a very intensive all-in business done for you and all the components, you now can just run this miniature business within a business just much more effectively, because you've done something really complicated, whereas if you started out just with a fucking community and whatnot there's no one there you would also find that very difficult.
00:21:40.750 --> 00:21:41.361
Does that make sense?
00:21:41.520 --> 00:21:45.750
yeah, because you didn't learn like real operational skills yeah to run a business.
00:21:45.750 --> 00:21:52.587
That's why a lot of these guys who are like core sellers have never ran an actual organization, with problems to stripe and stuff.
00:21:52.587 --> 00:21:54.271
Yeah, my question for your dad is off.
00:21:54.271 --> 00:21:58.636
This is if you are running a simpler model, does that not mean that you still have problems though?
00:21:59.219 --> 00:22:03.307
yeah, you, you have problems, but they're not.
00:22:03.307 --> 00:22:07.974
You're just picking the problems that you want.
00:22:07.974 --> 00:22:11.968
And I think, yeah, you really.
00:22:11.968 --> 00:22:22.185
It's like the idea you can put somebody we're joking the other day, you can live in Bali, your problems don't go away.
00:22:22.185 --> 00:22:26.681
You end up complaining about oh man, man, why does it take so long to get go jack?
00:22:26.681 --> 00:22:27.603
Yeah, to get go jack.
00:22:27.603 --> 00:22:32.181
Why does it take so long for somebody to cook my food and deliver it to my house?
00:22:33.103 --> 00:22:38.542
Um, at at a fifth of the cost that it would in the western world, you know, I mean, well, it's the same in business.
00:22:38.542 --> 00:22:46.101
You, you've got the same dispersion of of things that you're grateful for and the things that you're not, the things that annoy you.
00:22:46.101 --> 00:22:51.009
You've kind of got to pick your poison, but I think it's.
00:22:51.009 --> 00:23:01.193
It's trying to determine what problems actually take a hit on the energy and what problems are actual fun problems to solve.
00:23:01.193 --> 00:23:16.843
If that makes sense, yeah, so the the reshuffling of the deck chairs and building from scratch again allows you to build a model that avoids a lot of where too much emotional energy is being sucked away.
00:23:16.843 --> 00:23:18.326
If that makes sense.
00:23:18.326 --> 00:23:19.929
100, it makes perfect sense.
00:23:20.169 --> 00:23:38.375
Um, and and that to me is more important and in the same way, like I've always been a massive believer that if you follow, if you just figure out how to get people incredible outcomes, somehow money will follow you.
00:23:38.375 --> 00:23:41.746
But it's also like the same idea.
00:23:41.746 --> 00:23:52.770
It's like if you just figure out how to invest all of your time into something that you're absolutely buzzed about doing, like attention, eyeballs and money will follow you.
00:23:52.770 --> 00:24:13.528
And if you can get both of those things, if it can be like provide people with insane customer experiences to the point where they're like crying and ecstatic on a Zoom call when you ask them a few questions and you feel like there's not one part of your day that's emotionally a sacrifice, then that's the best version of the business model.
00:24:14.700 --> 00:24:15.704
And that's like think about it.
00:24:15.704 --> 00:24:19.579
Like how the fuck is anybody making money off podcasts?
00:24:19.579 --> 00:24:21.046
It's just recording audio.
00:24:21.046 --> 00:24:21.828
It's so stupid.
00:24:21.828 --> 00:24:31.000
But what happens is people are passionate about their topics and then people pay attention to what people are passionate about and attention equals money.
00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:31.863
Yeah, man.
00:24:31.863 --> 00:24:41.076
So yeah, like you've really just got to cut everything that you don't like and it's very interesting when you compare done for you versus done with you.
00:24:41.176 --> 00:24:51.422
I feel like done for you is such a scapegoat people use you as an excuse for their like failures and then done with you is much more like collaborative, but it's almost like an ethos.
00:24:51.422 --> 00:25:00.071
Basically, when you know you're going into a coaching effect program, you know that this person is not going to create the funnel for me, yeah, and not be a scapegoat.
00:25:00.071 --> 00:25:06.609
So this is a different and we can get to boundaries as well, which I just want to ask you about, but it's about I don't know.
00:25:06.609 --> 00:25:08.313
It's almost like their expectation of you.
00:25:08.313 --> 00:25:09.315
So let me ask you about that.
00:25:09.315 --> 00:25:09.760
I want to.
00:25:09.760 --> 00:25:10.786
So you're.
00:25:10.786 --> 00:25:17.290
I saw one of your posts which is like in a building, like a 1 million dollar design business, in like 10 hours or less a week.
00:25:17.290 --> 00:25:22.625
How do you do that from a time manager perspective and then setting the boundaries and expectations with a client?
00:25:23.166 --> 00:25:23.406
Yeah.
00:25:23.406 --> 00:25:30.926
So I've taken everything from the coaching and consulting environment and applied it to the design space.
00:25:30.926 --> 00:25:36.500
So it all just comes down to priming and the content people see before they start an engagement.
00:25:36.500 --> 00:25:45.346
So the greater the demand that you can create for your business and, like I think of opportunity.
00:25:45.346 --> 00:25:47.151
Just think of a big tank.
00:25:47.151 --> 00:25:51.089
It's completely waterproof and airproof, but there's two holes.
00:25:51.089 --> 00:26:02.691
The more opportunity that comes into the tank, the greater the velocity at which you can charge your prices and the greater the level of stuff that you can get away with.
00:26:03.863 --> 00:26:16.383
So if you have 10 units of time on your calendar but you've got 300 units of demand on that time, you can basically do whatever the hell you want, right?
00:26:16.522 --> 00:26:26.628
So by creating an overabundance of opportunity, you can be like this this is where my capability starts and where it ends.
00:26:26.628 --> 00:26:29.048
If you want to go beyond this, that's completely fine.
00:26:29.048 --> 00:26:42.326
Here's the invoice for that and that that's by far the easiest way to think about it is be super, super clear with everything that you're willing to do and only do things especially from, like, a service delivery standpoint.
00:26:42.326 --> 00:26:46.054
Only do things that you've already cost engineered out.
00:26:46.054 --> 00:26:53.865
So if you think about like Musk spent three years working on the factory floor at Tesla.
00:26:53.865 --> 00:26:54.188
Why?
00:26:54.188 --> 00:27:02.384
Because their biggest problem was they were spending time, effort and engineering resource into parts that shouldn't have actually been in the car.
00:27:02.384 --> 00:27:22.525
So only offer your clients something that you've cost engineered, that you know you're going to be profitable, delivering even from a done-for-you standpoint and then everything that fits outside of that clearly state we can do that, but it's marked up at this rate because we haven't figured that thing out.
00:27:22.525 --> 00:27:23.849
Does that make sense?
00:27:23.849 --> 00:27:25.770
Yeah, marked up at this rate, because we haven't figured that thing out.
00:27:25.790 --> 00:27:26.592
Does that make sense.
00:27:26.592 --> 00:27:28.292
Yeah, so you, you put up paywalls.
00:27:28.292 --> 00:27:45.574
Every time there's going to be an operational bottleneck with delivering something, you just provide a paywall and you, you figure out what's the core offer, that that it's going to be applicable to, to 90 of the, which I'm sure maybe comes down to three or four steps.
00:27:45.574 --> 00:27:54.688
But then there's like another 20 things that you could do that they expect and be like, yeah, I can do those things, but that's an extra two grand a month.
00:27:54.688 --> 00:28:12.895
And then what you'll find is people like we don't need that, and the only reason people create like sticky situations with like done-for-you client relationships is because they haven't defined the terms of the agreement enough.
00:28:12.895 --> 00:28:30.757
So, like you're from, obviously, the UK, or like you know, ireland, like it's, you'll notice that there's a lot of companies over there that purely operate off the definition of their legal terms on how they transact with you as the customer.
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:37.843
So think of all of those like 10-day loan shark opportunities.
00:28:37.843 --> 00:28:42.593
The only way that they get away with a business like that is because their legal documentation is rock solid.
00:28:42.593 --> 00:28:46.667
That's how you need to think about your business as well, or anybody does is.
00:28:46.667 --> 00:29:09.413
You need to create legal documentation that clearly stipulates where you said you're going to start and where you're going to end, so that there's never any loss of expectation or feature creep, and where, the minute that somebody is like, oh, I thought you were doing this, it's like we can do that, but, as you can see stated here, it's not in the offer that you paid for, but we're happy to do it.
00:29:09.413 --> 00:29:17.487
I can send you through the invoice and what you'll find is, by putting paywalls up, you incentivize people to behave the way that you intended to.
00:29:17.487 --> 00:29:21.156
So we see a lot of people.
00:29:21.156 --> 00:29:37.926
Their whole business breaks down just because they don't have contracts that clearly stipulate where the start and the end of the engagement is how can you elegantly convey that back to a client without kind of jeopardizing the relationship?
00:29:39.108 --> 00:29:39.409
well you.
00:29:39.409 --> 00:29:40.431
It's.
00:29:40.431 --> 00:29:50.269
It's less about the ones that maybe you've tainted and going okay, how do we prevent this situation ever from happening again?
00:29:50.269 --> 00:30:08.923
And it's getting to a point where you've got an itemized breakdown where, if phase one in the process of helping them out is like a PDF, it's like you'll get a PDF that's 20 to 25 pages long that has these seven sections in it and these seven sections have these in it.
00:30:08.923 --> 00:30:15.462
That way, when they receive that, it is very obvious that they've received exactly that.
00:30:15.462 --> 00:30:24.584
And now you've done so instead of vaguely pointing somebody in a direction of we're going to set your podcast up.
00:30:25.005 --> 00:30:36.324
It's literally doing an itemized breakdown like it's a ikea step-by-step assembly instruction because I think for our podcast that's been very easy to do is for me like there's only like four or five points and it's fine it's.
00:30:36.324 --> 00:30:42.586
It's within a vertical because it's like a machine we set up but with the offers we build on the back of clients.
00:30:42.586 --> 00:30:46.032
So we'd build a lot of their coaching programs or whatever.
00:30:46.032 --> 00:30:59.584
In our business model that can get a little bit hairy because, let's say, we're creating a VSL and the guy was meant to create the VSL, but then it needs to be edited and then it's like fuck, if we don't edit it it's going to be shit, and then we have to bring that in.
00:30:59.584 --> 00:31:00.448
So that makes sense.
00:31:10.660 --> 00:31:14.673
And I don't mind editing it because, like, our editors are dialed, but it's still just a concept of like oh yeah, you know, but that's that's where the contract has conditional logic.
00:31:14.673 --> 00:31:16.439
So it's like we'll produce the, the vsl, for you and, like, give you the guidelines for it.
00:31:16.439 --> 00:31:18.806
If you want us to edit it, here's the consequence of that.
00:31:18.806 --> 00:31:21.721
If you don't want us to edit it, here's the consequence.
00:31:21.721 --> 00:31:22.442
You'll have to do that.
00:31:22.442 --> 00:31:32.232
So you have to get to the point where there's a conditional logic framework for for every way that a client could transact with you.
00:31:32.232 --> 00:31:37.641
That's the only way to prevent that, because then you can just be like and this is, this was what happens in law.
00:31:37.641 --> 00:31:45.567
It's like if you refer to 8.2, what you'll find is is that you agreed to this particular clause.
00:31:45.567 --> 00:31:48.201
Therefore, there is no argument because it's already.
00:31:48.482 --> 00:32:03.946
It's already been documented I think where this becomes a slippery slope is that nothing is a problem until it's a massive problem is because people are trying to get people on contracts or recurring payments with very little documentation, very little outlining the offer, just the basics and the high level stuff.
00:32:03.946 --> 00:32:12.545
Yeah, that when things get into this murky water scenario which will have a negative impact overall, the project or the process, that's an issue.
00:32:12.545 --> 00:32:16.874
Now I want to ask you in that about reoccurring versus project work.
00:32:16.874 --> 00:32:21.111
So I've just never even taught about project work, I've always done reoccurring work.
00:32:21.111 --> 00:32:24.646
Do you think design is more situated towards project work?
00:32:24.727 --> 00:32:26.692
And the reason why I ask you is because we have someone in our program.
00:32:26.692 --> 00:32:36.873
He's a web developer, web design mainly and he's 19 and he was probably charging like 3,000, 5,000 to do the design.
00:32:36.873 --> 00:32:39.146
And he said, oh yeah, it was just one off payment.
00:32:39.146 --> 00:32:47.590
And I was like, dude, why don't we just swap to a reoccurring 1500 or 2K and then you can do other stuff for them too, like their landing pages and whatnot?
00:32:47.590 --> 00:32:49.413
And he was like, no, no, it wouldn't work.
00:32:49.413 --> 00:32:51.536
And I was like why don't you just try it with someone coming in?
00:32:51.536 --> 00:32:59.862
And within a week he was able to get a guy on a four and a half K reoccurring every month, and before it would be four and a half K and that would be.
00:32:59.862 --> 00:33:00.782
It be done, you're done.
00:33:00.782 --> 00:33:03.826
So it's like finding new ways to provide value for the same person.
00:33:03.826 --> 00:33:09.232
Yeah, but you think that is missing in the design space and basically in all the spaces.
00:33:09.232 --> 00:33:11.115
Well, that's.
00:33:11.996 --> 00:33:21.503
That's just a perfect example of like, taking something from the software space and applying it well, the.
00:33:21.503 --> 00:33:26.192
The best thing anybody can do is just figure out and and the.
00:33:26.192 --> 00:33:32.068
The best operating system for anybody that runs any business is to forget what you're selling.
00:33:32.068 --> 00:33:32.910
It doesn't matter.
00:33:32.910 --> 00:33:46.660
Figure out and try to, you know, subject yourself to as many different business models and and try to pull something out of of them that makes sense for you.
00:33:46.660 --> 00:33:49.907
That's where all the innovation is so like.
00:33:49.907 --> 00:34:06.411
The best way to think about it is if, if you're a barber, or if you're a design business owner, or if you're a podcaster, the best sales training is going to come from the best salesperson on the planet, not the best podcasting salesperson.
00:34:06.411 --> 00:34:08.387
Such a good point, dude.
00:34:08.387 --> 00:34:10.280
Yeah, such a good point.
00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:19.554
The best way to think about building a product suite from low to high ticket.
00:34:19.554 --> 00:34:22.387
The best person to mimic is Apple.
00:34:22.387 --> 00:34:28.610
When it comes to reoccurring subscriptions.
00:34:28.610 --> 00:34:33.405
How do you maintain a relationship with a customer so that they keep spending money?
00:34:33.405 --> 00:34:37.027
It's going to SaaS software.
00:34:37.027 --> 00:34:42.028
Right, the future is here.
00:34:42.139 --> 00:35:02.911
It's just not evenly distributed and the job of the entrepreneur is to figure out what mechanically works and what doesn't subjectively and embed it into your business Like, and this, to me, is just blatantly obvious.
00:35:02.911 --> 00:35:12.273
But what happens is identities get in the way and I'm a podcaster or I'm a designer or I'm a life coach.
00:35:12.273 --> 00:35:20.572
Then they're like well, this is how these people behave and that's not how I think you should think about it.
00:35:20.572 --> 00:35:21.985
I think you should just think about it.
00:35:21.985 --> 00:35:27.007
My responsibility is to create market value so that I build generational wealth.
00:35:27.007 --> 00:35:28.144
That's how I think about it.
00:35:28.144 --> 00:35:37.681
What mechanics exist in the world so that when somebody knows something like podcasting, it's like sick.
00:35:38.063 --> 00:35:49.306
Let's go speak to this guy and let's suck him for all the intellectual property that he's got and see how we can use it, irrespective of whoever you are, because there's something that's working.
00:35:49.306 --> 00:35:51.231
Yeah Right, you're in Bali.
00:35:51.231 --> 00:35:55.067
Here, we're both at a mastermind.
00:35:55.067 --> 00:36:04.130
He's doing something that I'm not doing, or he has a perspective that I don't have, and it doesn't matter what you're selling.
00:36:04.130 --> 00:36:06.367
It doesn't matter if you're selling fucking fidget spinners.
00:36:06.367 --> 00:36:23.567
It's understanding mechanically what you've got working and how I can potentially trade what's working for me with you so that both of our base IPips expand by two percent and I learned that from james from australia forget his surname.
00:36:24.309 --> 00:36:32.673
Uh, you, I think you were talking about this too which is vertical integration yeah and because, for me, this is where, again, you have to let the ego go.
00:36:33.041 --> 00:36:37.960
You know, I was pretty young to do a good offer, so I kind of felt like, oh, fuck it, I just have it all figured out.
00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:40.085
Just do one thing, sam ovens, bang your head off the table.
00:36:40.085 --> 00:36:44.985
But what I've been learning is like, again, there's different ways to solve the same problem.
00:36:44.985 --> 00:36:54.105
Yeah, depending on access, depending on cash, depending on and that's what james is doing really, really well like he's like four or five different things, but they're in difficult areas.
00:36:54.105 --> 00:36:58.336
But the last piece of the puzzle is the apple approach, which is software.
00:36:58.336 --> 00:37:02.693
Yeah, and I come from a software background, right, so I have like a piece.
00:37:02.793 --> 00:37:10.061
I have a place in my heart for a software company, totally and it's just something that I've always wanted to do because it's so hard to get right.
00:37:10.061 --> 00:37:13.597
Yeah, it's a pot, it's like dude, like one thing wrong with the feature.
00:37:13.597 --> 00:37:15.762
As you know from design, the whole thing's a shit show.
00:37:15.762 --> 00:37:28.920
So the reason why I'm saying this is because when you have dominance in an area like design or a podcast, and not like, yeah, like you're a key person of influence in a specific niche, then at that point you can add in all these different things.
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:40.150
So even last night and to this day I don't know what it is, but I know that a play I want to do is a sas platform that all of my clients and members can use.
00:37:40.150 --> 00:37:43.492
Yeah, and it can be sold externally yeah let's just give a simple example.
00:37:43.512 --> 00:37:45.380
Let's say, just managing your podcast, whatever that means.
00:37:45.380 --> 00:37:57.221
People externally can come in for 29 a month, but then people internally can use it at nine dollars a month yeah and then it's just this massive ecosystem play yeah, does that make sense?
00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:02.251
a hundred percent and and dude, like that, to me, is the logical path everybody should go down.
00:38:02.251 --> 00:38:16.266
Is like like, if you think about, every piece of software that you use has a grievance based on your individual context, like every popular software platform is a compromise between the collective user base.
00:38:16.266 --> 00:38:18.009
Explain that is a compromise between the collective user base.
00:38:18.028 --> 00:38:31.445
Explain that Well like ActiveCampaign for me is an incredible tool, but there's things about it that annoy me, based on the nature of who I email, how often I email them and what I email them with.
00:38:31.445 --> 00:38:36.740
Activecampaign is looking at 10 people in the market and going.
00:38:36.740 --> 00:38:57.512
They all kind of use email a tad different, but let's see where they overlap and that's our product, whereas what I think will happen in the future is I don't know if you've seen that graph, but the amount of people to run a million dollars worth of revenue in an organization has gone from nine in 1971 to three now.
00:38:57.940 --> 00:38:58.786
Oh, the amount of people.
00:38:58.947 --> 00:39:02.061
Yeah, yeah, the amount of people to to generate a million dollars of revenue.
00:39:02.061 --> 00:39:18.929
If, if that continues on the curve that ai kind of represents, then we we hit an inflection point where you're just going to tell chat gpt how to build that software and now you've eliminated all of the risk of creating it.
00:39:18.929 --> 00:39:29.735
So the competitive advantage to the piece of software is the fact that you understand the context of how to use that software for your exact audience and no compromises bear in mind.
00:39:29.936 --> 00:39:32.083
That's what everyone gets wrong in a software world.
00:39:32.083 --> 00:39:34.690
So most guys get in the software world because of the opportunity.
00:39:34.690 --> 00:39:41.286
So I come from a finance fintech background and obviously digital payments has been huge in the past 10 years.
00:39:41.286 --> 00:39:48.009
But no one knows even me who worked there how complicated the backend is.
00:39:48.009 --> 00:39:49.586
I won't bore you, but I'm trying to give an example.
00:39:49.586 --> 00:39:55.599
There's custodians, there's transaction times, there's layover times, there's transaction fees, there's all these nuances.
00:39:55.659 --> 00:39:57.146
It's deceptively clunky.
00:39:57.539 --> 00:40:01.492
People don't understand how it's 200 years of a financial system, right, yeah, yeah.
00:40:01.492 --> 00:40:05.744
And to simplify, it breaks this regulation, that compliance, that regulation, that law right.
00:40:05.744 --> 00:40:10.606
So the laws are set up deliberately to protect the user, even though they're slow and clunky, clunky, right.
00:40:10.606 --> 00:40:22.047
So the reason I'm saying this is because the amount of people that get into that space because they see the big opportunity of cash app and revolute and then 20 minutes on the line they're like what the fuck is going on.
00:40:22.047 --> 00:40:25.780
So I built a trading platform bear mind trading.
00:40:25.780 --> 00:40:27.864
You, you're big into investing.
00:40:27.885 --> 00:40:34.728
Right the back end of trading, what's going on between ping this bank, that bank, that bank, is wild, bro.
00:40:34.728 --> 00:40:36.391
It's honestly the most wildest shit ever.
00:40:36.391 --> 00:40:39.621
We had actuaries working on the back end just to understand what was going on.
00:40:39.621 --> 00:40:41.045
It was like most wild shit ever.
00:40:41.045 --> 00:40:52.931
Anyway, the reason I'm saying this is because most entrepreneurs are building things that they don't even know about, and you, you really see that in the service side, people sell services that they don't know about, like ads and niches.
00:40:52.931 --> 00:40:57.527
But it becomes such a different ball game when you've taken someone's money, you've invested it.
00:40:57.527 --> 00:40:59.309
You spent nine months building a roadmap.
00:40:59.309 --> 00:41:01.813
You don't even know how to market, yeah.
00:41:01.813 --> 00:41:03.342
So you've got everything wrong.
00:41:03.342 --> 00:41:04.125
Not even one thing.
00:41:04.144 --> 00:41:20.391
You've got everything wrong and you own eight percent of the business yeah the the funny thing the perfect like example with that is is people will look at that like the they.
00:41:20.391 --> 00:41:24.487
They'll look at Revolut and be like, oh, what's the market cap that Revolut are going towards?
00:41:24.487 --> 00:41:27.108
Let's go into that market and let's do something.
00:41:27.108 --> 00:41:29.869
But they obviously don't see the back-end complexity of it.
00:41:29.869 --> 00:41:37.768
Everybody that's absolutely murdered starts by just solving a stupid dumb one problem.
00:41:37.768 --> 00:41:48.309
So paypal's whole ethos at the start was to figure out how to get ebay, um super sellers, transacting more efficiently.
00:41:48.309 --> 00:42:02.356
Because if you go back to when the start of the, the originations of paypal, think about how money was transaction if you were selling stuff on eBay back in I don't know what year it was like early 2000s.
00:42:02.356 --> 00:42:04.708
That's a very clunky process.
00:42:04.708 --> 00:42:16.068
So they focused just on reducing the amount of time that super sellers were using, because you might do 15 transactions a day, that's eight hours of transaction processing.
00:42:16.068 --> 00:42:21.824
You know hours of of transaction processing, you know.
00:42:21.824 --> 00:42:22.806
So they they solved a very minute problem.
00:42:22.827 --> 00:42:30.867
They just happened to have the mechanics that led into a mass market product, um, but I think the exciting thing is is coming coming back to like your software idea.
00:42:30.867 --> 00:42:47.900
We're approaching the point that we'll all be able to create software at home and I think ai eventually will converge on this space where there'll only be one thing left to do, and that'll be the person that determines the taste of a business.
00:42:47.900 --> 00:42:54.061
Is there a product that we can create with a following that we can put it in front of where they're going to be?
00:42:54.061 --> 00:42:55.344
Like, yeah, we'll sort money for that.
00:42:55.344 --> 00:43:06.152
That'll be the last role, and and and that's why anybody that's entrepreneurially minded is is set up for a pretty incredible future.
00:43:06.152 --> 00:43:21.628
I would say, um, but yeah, like all of the, all of the barriers right now with software, uh, personnel and intellectual property barriers, but AI is ironing those out.
00:43:22.340 --> 00:43:23.826
You talk about IP a lot.
00:43:23.826 --> 00:43:24.387
Yeah.
00:43:24.387 --> 00:43:32.586
Tell me true the concept, like what you're thinking with that, because I don't think people really understand even the context of how you're describing it.
00:43:32.949 --> 00:43:33.108
Yeah.
00:43:33.108 --> 00:43:37.679
So everybody has intellectual property.
00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:39.101
I, everybody, everybody has intellectual property.
00:43:39.101 --> 00:43:47.371
It's basically it's it's what they have that allows them to mechanically get a desired outcome for themselves.
00:43:47.371 --> 00:43:50.755
That could be massively valuable if in the hands of somebody else.
00:43:50.755 --> 00:43:55.452
So let's think about everything.
00:43:55.452 --> 00:44:03.561
Let's just consider us both laptops, right, everything.
00:44:03.561 --> 00:44:04.744
Let's just consider us both laptops right.
00:44:04.744 --> 00:44:10.342
You're sitting here with 330 megabytes worth of success formula for how to build a marketing company that offers done for you services, right?
00:44:10.342 --> 00:44:18.855
I'm sitting here with 270 megabytes around how to build a design business and run ads to a coaching program.
00:44:18.855 --> 00:44:22.106
We both mutually benefit.
00:44:22.106 --> 00:44:32.231
If we just take your 330 megabytes and put it in my laptop and vice versa, we now have 600 megabytes worth of intellectual property.
00:44:32.231 --> 00:44:52.079
So, basically, intellectual property is just how you think about doing something that creates a desired result Well, and what you'll find is like intellectual property is basically the most profitable thing to sell on the planet as well.
00:44:52.199 --> 00:45:13.150
So if you have a look at that MacBook in front of you, the reason that Apple are basically the most successful product company on the planet is because the gap between what it costs to produce the laptop and what they can sell it for at retail is the most aggressive multiplier versus cost.
00:45:13.150 --> 00:45:19.860
So if you've got the cost and the profit, their multiplier is more aggressive than anybody on the planet.
00:45:19.860 --> 00:45:28.751
So it might be $200 more to produce that MacBook, but they can charge $1,500 more than a Lenovo right?
00:45:28.751 --> 00:45:34.865
What creates the gap between the cost and the retail value is intellectual property.
00:45:34.865 --> 00:45:46.652
It's not hard work, it's just knowing what formation to put the aluminium in, how to create the user experience, the tactile feel of the buttons.
00:45:46.652 --> 00:45:52.309
It's their own interpretation on what they think is the most effective formula and combination.
00:45:52.309 --> 00:46:05.181
So the way I see it is that everybody's got intellectual property Everybody like literally everybody, and your only responsibility is to figure out what.
00:46:05.181 --> 00:46:11.831
Does somebody know that you don't Sequencing yeah and be like well, how is that relevant to my space?
00:46:11.831 --> 00:46:18.507
And that's the danger in hanging out in just if you're just hanging out with podcasters.
00:46:18.507 --> 00:46:36.280
That's the danger in hanging out in just if you're just hanging out with podcasters is that you reach a market cap of IP in the podcasting space that maybe gets to 100 megabytes, but in the total addressable marketplace of IP in every industry there's 100 tetabytes.
00:46:36.280 --> 00:46:38.003
Fuck dude, 100 tetabytes.
00:46:38.003 --> 00:46:38.282
How?
00:46:38.282 --> 00:46:41.469
How are you like the?
00:46:41.568 --> 00:47:09.467
The reason that so many successful people came from paypal is because all of those guys bought ip and then they sat there in a very um, communicatable, um high level of like information, data swapping environment for multiple years that it allowed them all to completely change their world perspective around what was possible and how to leverage ideas and technology, and that's how they all branched out and moved in.
00:47:09.467 --> 00:47:24.146
So they all came in super smart people, but they 10X their hard drive with the IP and then they've all gone off and built billion dollar companies a hard drive with a ip and then they've all gone off and built billion dollar companies.
00:47:24.146 --> 00:47:33.807
So so that I I feel like the the real game is to just exist in the world that you want to exist in and and do exactly what you want to do.
00:47:33.807 --> 00:47:39.219
And then you'll run across people that are on similar paths and then you just trade ip and that's on similar paths and then you just trade IP.
00:47:39.219 --> 00:47:41.000
And that's like the beauty of, like the interview.
00:47:41.019 --> 00:47:44.507
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00:48:11.202 --> 00:48:26.230
Game whereby you're constantly evolving within your own niche and then you're just rising continuously by just not leaving the market and most people shit their pants, lose their mind and run in the other direction when an agency isn't working, when coaching's not working, which is all bullshit.
00:48:26.230 --> 00:48:28.463
Right, yeah, the problem isn't the model.
00:48:28.463 --> 00:48:44.086
The problem is you right to some degree, but that's actually why podcast as an example is really good, because if I didn't have my show, I wouldn't be meeting people in these settings and learning those data sets and small nuances.
00:48:44.086 --> 00:48:47.001
And, yes, I might not action every piece of advice immediately.
00:48:47.001 --> 00:48:54.929
I'd always about have 15 000 different businesses, but it's about learning the small things the tremors from them, yeah and then making a difference.
00:48:54.969 --> 00:49:00.112
so when I met james kemp when he was sitting in the right seat that you were in, he was like what do you do?
00:49:00.112 --> 00:49:05.606
And I was like we run a $5,000 a month reoccurring payment done for you service and he was like what do you do?
00:49:05.606 --> 00:49:08.786
I was like we coach them, we teach them, we do things, we build things.
00:49:08.786 --> 00:49:10.887
He was like could you just unbundle it?
00:49:10.887 --> 00:49:24.001
I was like could you do that?
00:49:24.001 --> 00:49:25.306
And I was like he's like would people pay for the strategy stuff.
00:49:25.327 --> 00:49:25.929
I was like that's 90 of it.
00:49:25.929 --> 00:49:28.358
Yeah, genuinely, it's like, uh, if you ever read category of one, yeah, you know, he mentions that everything is a commodity.
00:49:28.358 --> 00:49:41.061
So, because everything's a commodity, what we do is also a commodity, that the value we're doing is actually not in the execution, it's in the coaching and the more strategy side of things, the alignment with the business.
00:49:41.061 --> 00:49:45.391
So now we're just able to extract that component and then bring it down.
00:49:45.391 --> 00:49:50.331
Bring it down, so that's part of the ip, but it's also part of the leverage.
00:49:51.112 --> 00:49:54.768
And that's where you see people like the paypal bros, paypal mafia, isn't it?
00:49:54.768 --> 00:50:12.307
They're all playing those games of huge leverage, yeah, but and I want to get your thoughts on that too, because I know those guys like you know, the guys, uh, from nvidia who spent 25 years right trying to figure out the business and now, 25 years later, they're doing like a four billion and a quarter or whatever.
00:50:12.307 --> 00:50:16.141
But at the same time, is that the game that you want to be playing?
00:50:16.141 --> 00:50:27.570
Right, because obviously there's lots of leverage in that, but is that a game that you're willing to play versus what you're doing, which is you want to go kind of smaller scale but then higher rev and whatnot.
00:50:27.570 --> 00:50:34.226
But it's much more aligned to your values of your family, your friends playing golf on thursdays well, that's that's the whole game is.
00:50:36.588 --> 00:50:45.121
You can't do anything but benefit from learning chess moves or like poker moves on a table.
00:50:45.121 --> 00:50:46.788
That's a higher cash game.
00:50:46.788 --> 00:51:03.990
If you're familiar with how poker tournaments work right, if you're learning what the, the number one poker player on the planet, is doing on the high stakes table, at least knowing that can put you in good stead for a move that is similar to that in the future.
00:51:03.990 --> 00:51:20.472
So if you're maximizing your acquisition of ip on one directive, it then infers that it should be easier to solve the problems that you currently face based on the way that you're currently constraining where you invest time.
00:51:20.472 --> 00:51:44.902
So for me, it's like figure out like we were discussing exactly what I want my week to look like, with no like concessions or sacrifices, then engineer what the long-term business mechanism goal is in 30 years and go okay, that's the problem.
00:51:44.902 --> 00:51:45.844
What is that for you?
00:51:45.844 --> 00:51:47.208
Um?
00:51:47.208 --> 00:51:50.396
Do you mean like number wise?
00:51:50.916 --> 00:51:57.724
number lifestyle, like because you have to think with the end in mind, right back to the 48 laws of error yeah, so we're reverse engineering this.
00:51:57.724 --> 00:51:58.748
What does that look like for you?
00:51:59.068 --> 00:52:16.809
yeah, for me that looks like owning property in three different countries, um, and getting myself to the point that about three and a half million dollars a year passive and so basically just three, three, three and a half million um dollars a year.
00:52:16.809 --> 00:52:24.565
That comes from my investments, not from my cash flow businesses what are you investing in?
00:52:24.585 --> 00:52:25.126
just property?
00:52:26.228 --> 00:52:30.704
property stocks dividends, everything and then cash flow businesses in the future.
00:52:30.704 --> 00:52:32.789
So not?
00:52:32.809 --> 00:52:33.791
something you want to invest in.
00:52:33.791 --> 00:52:38.168
You want to invest in cash flow businesses or hire ceos, build build them.
00:52:38.548 --> 00:52:51.880
Build them myself, yeah, um, based on where I see opportunity, um, but then also open up the opportunity for the people that we help to to invest into theirs and become part owners as well are you familiar with serge guteri?
00:52:52.501 --> 00:52:54.726
no, such a fucking cool dude.
00:52:54.726 --> 00:52:58.474
He's a 23, 24, from rwanda, moved to canada.
00:52:58.474 --> 00:53:02.864
He's living in this massive penthouse in montreal, brand new porsche.
00:53:02.864 --> 00:53:06.213
Such a cool dude, but super down to earth, right, super down to earth.
00:53:06.213 --> 00:53:10.106
But he's 23, he's doing 600k a month, wow.
00:53:10.106 --> 00:53:15.541
And I was like what's the mechanism for that, like what's the philosophy around it?
00:53:15.541 --> 00:53:47.563
And he was like very simple, he was like I wasn't studying the 10k a month bros, 100k a month bros, I was studying nvidia, apple, all these bigger companies, um, like really understanding their inner game to the point that what he's, their approaches and this is kind of completes a circle was that, instead of, you know, getting people on retained or getting people on a paid in full, his approach was we want to build infrastructure for sales, operations, marketing and something else within companies and we'll do that.
00:53:47.563 --> 00:53:54.760
One off, 25, 30k, yeah, and then if it's going well, we'll partner on you.
00:53:54.900 --> 00:54:11.525
If you're doing I think it's over half a million a year, we'll partner on you If you're doing I think it's over half a million a year we'll partner with you for 20% or whatever, and then ramp all these systems and then let it run, and then you don't give a shit that you're paying about 20%, because now you're making a million a two million, a three million, and that's what allowed him to play that kind of bigger game.
00:54:11.525 --> 00:54:27.851
Now he went through all the evolutions of churn and burn, and so I just thought it was super interesting, because it's the same philosophy that you're talking about thinking about building those components of leverage yeah and he's doing that as like a 23 year old kid when he started.
00:54:27.871 --> 00:54:33.702
When he started, I'm not too sure what age he is now, so he's still super young, but and then that that's the like.
00:54:33.722 --> 00:54:54.530
That's just the simple idea of you can do so much yourself, but if you can have a 20% cut of 100 people that are all pursuing the path that you're pursuing, that's going to have by an order of magnitude impact on your net worth and like, if you look at like Alex Hormozy, that's all he's doing.
00:54:54.530 --> 00:55:00.492
Acquisitioncom is basically a mastermind that they don't charge for, they just take equity.
00:55:02.119 --> 00:55:03.063
It's like a family office.
00:55:03.686 --> 00:55:04.829
Yeah, Basically.
00:55:04.829 --> 00:55:16.632
So his whole strategy that's why he'll be worth easily a billion is it's free information to help people get to $3 million a year.
00:55:16.632 --> 00:55:27.351
And then, once they've got to that point and people are grateful for his help getting them there they give him 20% of their business to grow it to $10, $20, $50 million a year.
00:55:27.351 --> 00:55:40.373
That's his whole model is understanding that he can only grow a business itself to maybe 100 million max.
00:55:40.373 --> 00:55:49.175
But if you can get a thousand people to get to 50 million and get 20 cut of that, that is considerably easier even better than that.
00:55:49.637 --> 00:55:50.981
So you know, you pay for speed, right?
00:55:50.981 --> 00:55:52.346
Have you seen his workshops?
00:55:52.346 --> 00:55:55.896
No I was going to do one in vegas.
00:55:55.896 --> 00:55:57.880
You, man, you should do one.
00:55:57.880 --> 00:56:00.449
Yeah, if you're going to be in Vegas for a week or two, they're in Vegas.
00:56:00.981 --> 00:56:01.925
Oh, you can do workshops there.
00:56:02.360 --> 00:56:03.246
So I'll give you some context.
00:56:03.246 --> 00:56:06.445
So you mentioned that he's getting people the three million a year so you can invest in them.
00:56:06.445 --> 00:56:10.507
He's a smart cookie and realizes that most people don't take advice right.
00:56:10.507 --> 00:56:31.041
So now he has a new model, a new offer, which which is, if you're doing around a million a year, you can go to vegas for a two-day workshop and all the acquisitioncom team will be there to help you promote it, help you build your offer, specifically on round tables, like 50 people, well, and then leila and alex will come in for a talk on the last day.
00:56:31.041 --> 00:56:34.471
So what that is is giving you more help.
00:56:34.471 --> 00:56:35.675
It's 5k.
00:56:35.675 --> 00:56:41.061
It's which is super cheap, to be honest oh, that's nothing and then they're putting you in their crm.
00:56:42.144 --> 00:56:43.670
I gotta tell you the story about that in a second.
00:56:43.690 --> 00:57:00.311
But they'll put you in a crm and now they're seeing you evolve to get to the point whereby it's like um, it's like a football academy team yeah, they're finding the good people and then they're seeing like one, you're not a dumb ass, and then two, the business is good, so we'll help you in exchange for money until you get to that point, then we'll prime you.
00:57:00.311 --> 00:57:04.661
Yeah, so how I figured out about it was in like one of his links.
00:57:04.661 --> 00:57:06.489
Uh, it was like a new link.
00:57:06.489 --> 00:57:07.735
I said that's kind of weird in his video.
00:57:07.735 --> 00:57:16.963
So saturday night I was here it was late, it was probably around 1 am and I saw the link and I saw the workshop and I was like, fuck, I'm going to the?
00:57:16.963 --> 00:57:17.463
U the US soon.
00:57:17.463 --> 00:57:18.706
Let me just sign up yeah.
00:57:18.985 --> 00:57:20.630
I signed up, put in my details.
00:57:20.630 --> 00:57:24.938
Within one minute I had a missed call wow.
00:57:25.579 --> 00:57:34.067
Saturday night here in Vegas it was super early in the morning, was probably around 8am Saturday morning, and he's always talking about speed to lead and calling back your leads.
00:57:34.067 --> 00:57:40.764
In two minutes I had a call from a guy, had a whatsapp message, and I just responded going wow, I can show you the message.
00:57:40.764 --> 00:57:48.811
Bro, I sent it into a group chat being like this is the difference, yeah, between the guys at the top and the guys in the middle, right 100 and uh.
00:57:48.811 --> 00:57:54.902
So because I was so amazed by I would never bring someone to her life, I rang him immediately back and I was like dude, that was sick.
00:57:54.902 --> 00:57:56.485
I literally was like that was sick.
00:57:56.485 --> 00:57:57.887
I like I don't have time for the business.
00:57:57.887 --> 00:58:02.007
And then we were at the stage so you're over seven figures to do it.
00:58:02.221 --> 00:58:08.583
But it didn't work out for me because I'm not in Vegas for the same weekend, but they're doing it every like two weeks.
00:58:08.583 --> 00:58:09.648
Oh man, pretty much now.
00:58:09.648 --> 00:58:11.065
Yeah, I'm 100% going to do that.
00:58:11.065 --> 00:58:15.148
Yeah, so I can give you details of the sales rep guy.
00:58:15.148 --> 00:58:20.972
Yep, because we actually got on really well and I was like I was like I can do it, I'm just not going to be there.
00:58:20.972 --> 00:58:33.019
That's the difference, you know, all right, cool, because we because I had the tour planned out and we're like super tight on schedules yeah, I saw, oh, maybe there's a day or two, and then we're like, ah, whatever, come back to keep me in a serum, you know.
00:58:33.019 --> 00:58:41.335
So I just thought that was super interesting, because that's when you evolve with someone, we go back to the outcome yeah, versus the input they're putting you on this scaler.
00:58:41.355 --> 00:58:44.239
You know yeah, um, that's, that's incredible.
00:58:44.239 --> 00:59:00.894
And like I mean, that's see, probably that they're probably thinking, okay, well, 5k ticket, that might break even, but if we take 5 000 people through that over the next X amount of years and 100 of them pop, that's going to be amazing.
00:59:01.159 --> 00:59:02.547
And it's also free marketing.
00:59:02.547 --> 00:59:03.561
He didn't put a cent into that.
00:59:03.561 --> 00:59:04.244
Yeah, that's amazing.
00:59:04.264 --> 00:59:11.717
That's the first link in his videos oh dude, yeah, if you want to go back, I'd be keen to do that.
00:59:11.717 --> 00:59:12.619
Yeah for sure.
00:59:12.619 --> 00:59:14.306
What couple-day workshop is it?
00:59:19.219 --> 00:59:20.568
It's on the weekend second weekend, I think in vegas, oh my god, yeah.
00:59:20.568 --> 00:59:26.108
So they fill up pretty quickly, but I know the guy pretty well as you're back and forth for quite some time and uh, I'll try to squeeze it around my box party.
00:59:26.327 --> 00:59:33.880
Yeah guys, I'll be back in eight hours but you know, I think this is the beauty of these things is that you don't need to do all of it, right?
00:59:33.880 --> 00:59:35.244
You don't need to go to the dinners and shit.
00:59:35.244 --> 00:59:36.509
Yeah, you just go in in the morning.
00:59:36.509 --> 00:59:49.782
Because that's what I was going to do with james, because we were super busy at the time and I was like, oh, hey, dude, like I can just go to the things during the day, and he was like all right, cool, you know yeah so you kind of ebb and flow and see, see what works for you too, right at the same time yeah, but if it's not this time.
00:59:49.802 --> 00:59:50.864
You can come back to it.
00:59:50.864 --> 00:59:57.715
That's the whole thing yeah stuff and that's where we go back to again not shoving it, not burning a lead, right?
00:59:57.715 --> 00:59:58.396
Yeah, is that?
00:59:58.396 --> 01:00:02.264
For me in that scenario, this is a really good thing to reflect on.
01:00:02.264 --> 01:00:03.086
So the guy rang me.
01:00:03.086 --> 01:00:05.661
I got on the call, I was keen, but I wasn't able to do it.
01:00:05.661 --> 01:00:07.967
Just from a logical perspective.
01:00:07.967 --> 01:00:12.483
But that doesn't mean that I don't want to do it or that I won't do it in the future.
01:00:12.824 --> 01:00:15.661
And he was pretty chill about it, talking about it now, you know literally.
01:00:15.722 --> 01:00:23.922
So the fact that he didn't burn it yeah and I just actually wasn't able to do it and I wouldn't be wasting someone's time unless I knew I was like 90 in.
01:00:23.922 --> 01:00:28.994
Yeah, um, that's the way you set up the ecosystem.
01:00:28.994 --> 01:00:31.880
Totally right that that is the ecosystem play.
01:00:31.880 --> 01:00:39.130
And now, because I didn't have a negative experience through the sales process, I'll buy the third book when it drops in september or whatever do you get me?
01:00:39.400 --> 01:00:54.693
yeah and then that'll put me on the next, back on the conveyor belt you know, but that's how I'll end up spending a ton of money with them over the next couple years as they build more stuff and then maybe one day they could come in and do something cool with us yeah, and that's the.
01:00:55.942 --> 01:01:05.315
It's a hundred times easier to have that attitude when you don't need any of the next 10 sales opportunities to close.
01:01:05.315 --> 01:01:13.512
So I, like I still obviously do the sales calls in my design business, but with Profitable Designer.
01:01:13.512 --> 01:01:18.239
We've got a beast of a girl in Ecuador named Sophie.
01:01:18.239 --> 01:01:31.038
We've got a beast of a girl in Ecuador named Sophie, and the busier the month that we have and the more revenue we do, the greater her conversion rate because she's mentally past her goal and quota for the month.
01:01:31.038 --> 01:01:41.000
And now everything's just it's like yeah, we don't, yeah, we're kind of busy this month and it's less she'd like it're kind of busy this month and it's less, she'd like it nearly is.
01:01:41.000 --> 01:01:42.545
Like she's repelling the sale.
01:01:42.867 --> 01:02:01.021
Yeah, and and that that was the good thing about like james's attitude is is when you engineer the weekly recurring, you kind of you reduce the need for anybody to individually close, which then that's actually the most optimal way to to continue a long-term relationship.
01:02:01.021 --> 01:02:15.603
So, like you're saying here is like you weren't ready and that there's a lot of like scale bros that would have they would have called a minute later and got that part right, but then they would have really pressed for the sale then, and then you would have been like, well, fuck those guys forever.
01:02:15.603 --> 01:02:29.030
And now you're like they called, you called them back and it's like, yeah, if now it's not the right time, awesome, and now it probably increases the likelihood that you go back by 15 percent.
01:02:29.030 --> 01:02:30.132
Yeah, you know what I mean.
01:02:30.172 --> 01:02:37.543
So it's a delicate balance, though yeah massively very, very delicate balance, and I've seen it but the other thing is they don't need you exactly.
01:02:37.543 --> 01:02:39.547
Yeah, that's, they don't they.
01:02:39.547 --> 01:02:44.541
They know their numbers and they know that obviously, out of x amount of people we call that.
01:02:44.541 --> 01:02:45.483
That changed.
01:02:45.483 --> 01:02:48.170
That massively changed our sales process as well.
01:02:48.170 --> 01:02:57.346
So we use aloe and we call the minute people book for a call, we call them straight away automated yeah, we.
01:02:57.346 --> 01:03:03.148
It automatically dials, sophie jumps on and goes super, super excited to chat to you in the next couple of days.
01:03:03.148 --> 01:03:04.733
Um, are you free now?
01:03:05.161 --> 01:03:09.367
and the voicemail no person, but where is she?
01:03:10.210 --> 01:03:12.853
in ecuador, like what if her phone's not with her?
01:03:13.800 --> 01:03:17.728
she, she is like it's, it's during her, during her window.
01:03:17.728 --> 01:03:24.344
If the call booking comes through, which 80% of them do, it'll Aloe Vera will just go.
01:03:24.344 --> 01:03:25.530
Oh, we're going to dial this person.
01:03:25.699 --> 01:03:27.005
And it will ring her phone too.
01:03:27.204 --> 01:03:52.702
Yeah, yeah, and then she knows okay, awesome, and then she can bring up the information and what she does is a lot of the times she runs the triage call right then and there when they book, so that we can move them straight to a discovery instead of triaging and then discovery well, I don't do any triage call we do it just because of the call volume, to protect her time, because we don't want to her.
01:03:52.742 --> 01:04:01.650
Spending an hour with somebody that we could have identified in five minutes wasn't qualified if that makes it, could you, would you not have to turn an application form or a calendar form?
01:04:01.952 --> 01:04:08.289
Yeah, there's a difference between what people fill out in a form and what they actually say when you question them.
01:04:08.289 --> 01:04:08.690
Yeah.
01:04:09.039 --> 01:04:15.800
So we do this kind of like and it's in everybody's best interest to figure out we do.
01:04:15.800 --> 01:04:19.599
She does this thing called Open Wallet and she just runs the sales process.
01:04:19.599 --> 01:04:28.474
I don't stay up to date with it because when she closes 60% of people you don't need to worry about what's happening.
01:04:28.474 --> 01:04:29.335
It's not broken, right.
01:04:29.335 --> 01:04:35.811
But she does this thing called open wallet and she's like yeah, to be blatantly upfront, like this is what it costs.
01:04:35.811 --> 01:04:39.967
If that's okay, then fantastic.
01:04:39.967 --> 01:04:51.431
If it's 50 50, we can obviously discuss, like if this is something that makes sense for you, because if it's not, we want to push you in the right direction and say to you that maybe now is not the right time for the call.
01:04:51.639 --> 01:05:05.873
If that makes sense the other approach to that would be you'd build commitment, buy into the process they're 100% into the process and then reveal the investment and then people will make it work.
01:05:05.873 --> 01:05:07.625
That's the other logic to that.
01:05:08.007 --> 01:05:08.186
Yeah.
01:05:08.186 --> 01:05:16.487
But what happens is, as long as people come back and say I'm open to it, then the call can progress.
01:05:16.487 --> 01:05:22.021
Okay, if that makes sense, yeah it, then the the call can progress.
01:05:22.021 --> 01:05:24.264
Okay, if that makes sense, yeah, so and and the.
01:05:24.264 --> 01:05:26.610
The process might be completely different if we only had 20 calls a month, but when?
01:05:26.630 --> 01:05:32.103
we've got like 70, like we don't want it's a lot.
01:05:32.103 --> 01:05:40.884
We yeah, like I don't know how she does it, but like I my my brain turns to mush if I have, when I had three calls in a day so how much revenue do in a month?
01:05:40.884 --> 01:05:45.032
We do between probably 160 and 300 grand a month.
01:05:45.032 --> 01:05:47.222
Fuck yeah, what's the?
01:05:47.262 --> 01:05:50.768
margin on that uh, probably 75.
01:05:52.291 --> 01:05:56.284
Yeah, my biggest, my biggest cost is this the sales and the setting team.
01:05:57.047 --> 01:06:02.063
Yeah, because it's commission, only commission, yeah, all commission only yeah and then.
01:06:02.423 --> 01:06:03.465
But that's not a cost though.
01:06:03.465 --> 01:06:04.688
No, it's not.
01:06:04.688 --> 01:06:07.721
That's the price you pay to get the money.
01:06:07.800 --> 01:06:08.623
Yeah it's price?
01:06:08.623 --> 01:06:09.907
Yeah, it's only the ads.
01:06:09.907 --> 01:06:18.507
To the ads, or sorry sale sale price minus the ads, minus the commission yeah, but the ads.
01:06:19.690 --> 01:06:24.208
But that's not taking into account the, the low ticket product sales which pay for the ads as well.
01:06:24.208 --> 01:06:25.650
So ads not even in that.
01:06:25.650 --> 01:06:28.465
So yeah, so it kind of it.
01:06:28.465 --> 01:06:30.349
It rotates between that.
01:06:30.349 --> 01:06:37.525
It's like it swings yeah, it swings pretty aggressively um, what do you mean so?
01:06:37.646 --> 01:06:38.626
So why would it swing?
01:06:41.072 --> 01:07:06.320
You just get in tranches and this is half of the reason that the model has to be rebuilt because you do nothing but boost posts on Instagram, for example, for three months, and it can be the same post over 90 days, and then everything else in the business is constant and there can still be a fluctuation of 100 in the monthly revenue.
01:07:06.320 --> 01:07:08.184
I don't get it.
01:07:08.184 --> 01:07:27.590
We can boost a particular post that calls out a type of designer in march which we did and do 300 grand in march and then not change anything in april and may, and then it goes 300, 150, 220.
01:07:27.590 --> 01:07:39.759
You know what I mean and it's and it's just relative to we're relying on one algorithm and where it puts that and and kind of seasonal difference in.
01:07:39.759 --> 01:07:43.067
You know people that go through different buying cycles halfway through the year.
01:07:43.067 --> 01:07:52.867
The end of the year has been historically good for us because you know people have that, I assume, this new year, new business kind of mentality and they want to start fresh.
01:07:52.867 --> 01:07:55.074
Um, so you go through that.
01:07:55.074 --> 01:07:58.023
But yeah, like it's, it's pretty unpredictable and that's that's half.
01:07:58.023 --> 01:08:13.416
The reason is you can't rely purely on one thing, and that's the great thing about content is that the base is slower to build, but you know how many views and clicks you're going to get next month.
01:08:13.416 --> 01:08:16.506
You know what I mean that are hyper-qualified.
01:08:16.506 --> 01:08:22.524
You know what I mean.
01:08:22.524 --> 01:08:26.050
That are that are hyper qualified, whereas if you rely on running ads, um, you don't know.
01:08:26.069 --> 01:08:28.654
Like instagram and meta's business model changes every day.
01:08:28.654 --> 01:08:41.649
They've gone from and, as you can imagine, remember when, like, people getting locked out of their account and banned became so common that people were selling training programs on how to get unlocked and unbanned, right.
01:08:41.649 --> 01:08:55.207
Well, now we've gone through this complete cycle where less people are spending money on Meta and now it's impossible to get banned, and now an agent from Meta will ring you and ask if you need any help.
01:08:55.207 --> 01:08:57.747
So it's like completely done a 180, right?
01:08:57.747 --> 01:09:09.390
Well, all of those changes in market shifts also mean that they have to continually innovate the way that they figure out how to most effectively allocate somebody's ad spend.
01:09:09.390 --> 01:09:26.122
You know so it's too much of a unpredictable cycle and that's why there has to be rebuilding, so that we can better and more predictably monetize the email base yeah, I think rebuilding maybe the wrong word.
01:09:26.182 --> 01:09:28.529
It could be just innovating yeah, it's, yeah, it's.
01:09:28.529 --> 01:09:33.050
It is just you know like rebuilding is like my life fell apart and now I'll have to start a new business.
01:09:33.881 --> 01:09:34.983
Yeah, that's the but I also like.
01:09:34.983 --> 01:09:35.625
I like that notion of it.
01:09:35.625 --> 01:09:36.707
I like that notion of it.
01:09:36.707 --> 01:09:39.371
I like that idea of like.
01:09:39.371 --> 01:09:43.389
It's always fun to build something new and start fresh again.
01:09:43.389 --> 01:09:45.462
So I see it more as like.
01:09:45.462 --> 01:10:01.694
Have you ever like, when you move overseas, for example, did you do like a mass color of all the shit in your house and how medicinal that cleanse was?
01:10:01.694 --> 01:10:05.043
To get rid of all of that stuff Like we shipped our?
01:10:05.043 --> 01:10:08.091
It cost me during COVID.
01:10:08.091 --> 01:10:15.306
It cost me 6,500 pounds to ship our stuff from the UK to Australia because we thought we were moving back to Australia.
01:10:15.306 --> 01:10:18.128
There wasn't even 6,500 grand worth of stuff in the container.
01:10:18.128 --> 01:10:19.806
It was the worst move of my life.
01:10:19.806 --> 01:10:22.188
But then we're like fuck it, let's just sell it all.
01:10:22.188 --> 01:10:27.306
And it was the most liberating thing, because now we were just backpacks and our travel bags.
01:10:27.306 --> 01:10:31.390
Well, I like doing those system resets.
01:10:31.390 --> 01:10:34.550
I reset my MacBook every two months.
01:10:34.550 --> 01:10:39.751
I just wipe the hard drive and then clean up the google drive folder.
01:10:39.751 --> 01:10:42.083
I just, I like, I like starting from scratch.
01:10:42.144 --> 01:10:45.251
It's like a nice space yeah, you familiar with jk melina?
01:10:45.251 --> 01:10:49.148
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01:11:39.212 --> 01:11:43.048
You're not in james's program, are you james kemp's program?
01:11:43.109 --> 01:11:43.350
I was.
01:11:43.350 --> 01:11:48.880
I was for a couple months, okay, but it worked so well and I was like I'll come back and hopefully get private coaching.
01:11:48.880 --> 01:11:51.605
You know when I want to do a couple problems in six months.
01:11:51.926 --> 01:12:00.430
So jk was in james's uh group and this guy's from guatemala, like he's a killer, he's like 21, 22.
01:12:00.430 --> 01:12:03.623
He had a ghost writing agency, grew it out.
01:12:03.623 --> 01:12:04.686
Then he had tweet hunter.
01:12:04.686 --> 01:12:05.689
You know tweet hunter.
01:12:05.689 --> 01:12:09.104
He came in with the guys tebow, they sold it for 1.4 mil.
01:12:09.104 --> 01:12:10.908
He got a good bit of cash from that.
01:12:10.908 --> 01:12:22.542
And then he was helping consultants, coaches, like add 20k to their business and he had like 14 people 150k a month very small margin.
01:12:22.823 --> 01:12:40.434
And that's when he met jk or james, and he went down to him in a va but rebuilt, went back to not zero, but all the way down to rebuild, and james kemp brought him back up to 100k with like 99 margin.
01:12:40.434 --> 01:12:41.574
Well, literally.
01:12:41.574 --> 01:12:44.645
And then the va is based in like uh, where is he's?
01:12:44.645 --> 01:12:48.573
In canada, I think yeah, um, no sales team, nothing.
01:12:48.573 --> 01:12:52.487
And it's the same offer, just true that.
01:12:52.487 --> 01:12:55.439
And, to be honest, dude, like that's, I've learned a lot from james on that too.
01:12:55.439 --> 01:13:02.091
So the reason I'm saying it's not, I'm not using the word rebuilding is because it just I look at everything that you've done.
01:13:02.431 --> 01:13:11.096
Yeah, but it's like a reformatting but I also think, though, that that one person like google doc thing works best.
01:13:11.096 --> 01:13:16.889
If you've been through the wars of business, if you understand the triggers, I'm going to give an example.
01:13:16.889 --> 01:13:22.966
We do paid sponsorships and we never really take calls from ever.
01:13:22.966 --> 01:13:34.271
People will come in a tech company to come in, they'll do a sponsorship and whatnot, but if we're doing something that's a little bit higher level, like a kind of a bundle, like a newsletter and webinars and so on sponsorship we may have to take calls for that.
01:13:34.271 --> 01:13:35.844
Because of james.
01:13:36.465 --> 01:13:41.934
I was thinking like all right, let's just, when they ask for a call, just ask them to send other questions and I'll get back to them.
01:13:41.934 --> 01:13:47.670
But when they're sending the questions, I'm talking to them as if it's a sales call via message.
01:13:47.670 --> 01:13:48.893
Does that make sense?
01:13:48.893 --> 01:13:53.680
Yeah, totally, but the only reason I'm doing it is not because I'm fucking socially anxious and I want to go sales call.
01:13:53.680 --> 01:13:57.850
It's just because we can solve the problem now instead of waiting until next Thursday at 4 pm.
01:13:57.850 --> 01:14:06.233
Totally, but what I'm trying to say is that, because I understand human behavior, from sitting on a call with all these people and just understanding sales processes, it's easier to do that.
01:14:06.233 --> 01:14:08.163
Yeah, and I'm waiting to tell James.
01:14:08.163 --> 01:14:12.337
Actually, we're waiting for a payment to go through which was $28,000 USD.
01:14:12.337 --> 01:14:15.932
Sick, it's for a client, but it's $28,000.
01:14:20.020 --> 01:14:22.194
And it was don't shoot an email.
01:14:22.194 --> 01:14:22.899
Yeah, and you are right, like it.
01:14:22.899 --> 01:14:26.766
One thing I've always, you've always got to be like this.
01:14:26.766 --> 01:14:28.083
Like just the same way.
01:14:28.083 --> 01:14:44.306
There's like laws of gravity, that there's laws to marketing and and using the Google doc template to sell other people, and using the Google Doc template is the most optimal environment for that mechanism to work.
01:14:44.306 --> 01:14:49.509
Yeah, like the inception of it, right, so like that's like the speed of light.
01:14:49.509 --> 01:14:52.469
Yeah, and it's like how close can you get to the speed of light?
01:14:52.469 --> 01:15:12.817
Because we could right now use Telegram as a landing page funnel to get clients and use Telegram as the landing page for that offer, and it'll probably work, or no, it's more likely to work because the proof's in the pudding.
01:15:12.817 --> 01:15:13.500
You know what I mean.
01:15:13.500 --> 01:15:18.546
You're proving the mechanism works, because you're using the mechanism to prove the mechanism works.
01:15:19.186 --> 01:15:22.010
Yeah, you get what I mean that can be taken out of context, though.
01:15:22.010 --> 01:15:29.409
So I mentioned before, like if you're teaching people how to make 10k a month, but you're only making 10k a month because they're buying your program, yeah, that's a pyramid scheme.
01:15:29.550 --> 01:15:33.282
Yeah, yeah, that's a pyramid scheme, and then, but that's that.
01:15:33.282 --> 01:16:01.511
The funny thing is is that that's, um, that's that's what it seems like the vast majority of the market are doing, and what I find is the the people that, um, it just comes down to like the best person that you can invest off has the experience before the business model, the new business model.
01:16:01.511 --> 01:16:11.354
So I think those people are easier to to spot because they they share revenue numbers.
01:16:11.354 --> 01:16:26.381
I think the more that you show revenue numbers, the more likely that you're running the inception game, whereas if you're less showing revenue numbers and you're likely that you're running the inception game, whereas if you're less showing revenue numbers and you're talking more about problems and challenges, that person, to me, is more genuine.
01:16:26.381 --> 01:16:35.865
So, like James, never shares, very rarely shares, revenue numbers, unless they're in a hyper level of context.
01:16:35.905 --> 01:16:43.184
But you see, these like instagram, instagram content creators, where it's just pure inception.
01:16:43.184 --> 01:16:54.052
Here's the money I'm generating selling the course, which is the only thing that I've done, and and there's nothing wrong with that, like you can make money doing that.
01:16:54.052 --> 01:17:06.176
But the problem is, is that the only person that's going to make money buying that course is somebody selling that same course to other people on instagram.
01:17:06.176 --> 01:17:16.604
You're not going to be able to take that training and apply it to someone else because it hasn't been proven in a in a real non-inception market environment.
01:17:16.604 --> 01:17:17.246
Does that make sense?
01:17:17.246 --> 01:17:19.551
Sense, 100%.
01:17:19.551 --> 01:17:28.484
So that's why our stuff works is because it works outside of the mechanisms that I use to sell it.
01:17:29.479 --> 01:17:44.942
Dude, I said this to you on Voices the other day, which is what you're sharing to do with the design businesses and design industry is applicable to other businesses, just like what we're doing to help podcasts become businesses are applicable to any other form of content.
01:17:44.942 --> 01:17:47.770
Yeah, tweets, even ads to some degree.
01:17:47.770 --> 01:17:48.554
Same logic.
01:17:48.554 --> 01:17:50.500
Linkedin newsletters, whatever.
01:17:50.500 --> 01:17:52.104
It's same logic.
01:17:52.404 --> 01:18:13.988
So it's the same vetted principles across a multi multitude of different domains yeah and you're having that strong foundation principle level and you just pick a vessel, it literally goes back to the most basic shit ever, which is like pick a niche and go after the niche with the same principles yeah, well, that and that's, and that's where the specialization is.
01:18:14.069 --> 01:18:33.927
So we're looking at that screen there, right, and we want that screen to connect to the laptop, and that's kind of like the perfect version of your business model is is that tv and you're the laptop, the, the job of the, the creator and the the entrepreneur, is to figure out the most effective cable to take the hdmi port to the, the rgb.
01:18:33.927 --> 01:18:35.931
So you're the converter.
01:18:35.931 --> 01:18:52.411
So it's like, yes, that they are the proven business principles, but, based on the fact that I understand the hdmi port, I'm going to show you how we translate that information so that it's relevant to you and that's that in a way.
01:18:52.411 --> 01:19:00.192
That's kind of all an entrepreneur is is somebody that's releasing a technology and, like ip and ideas are technologies.
01:19:00.192 --> 01:19:04.632
Yep, you're releasing a technology to a market that hasn't seen it before.
01:19:04.632 --> 01:19:16.266
That would would really benefit them if they could figure out how to embed it in their everyday yeah, man, that's so fucking smart yeah, what do you know about podcasting that most people don't systems?
01:19:17.850 --> 01:19:23.083
everyone's just chasing like big guests or a shiny object or a trick or a hack.
01:19:23.083 --> 01:19:24.287
But there is no hack.
01:19:24.287 --> 01:19:36.122
There's just a consistent, repeatable, difficult, grungy process that you just have to go through continuously and it's almost like looking at as like a feedback loop.
01:19:36.122 --> 01:19:39.908
So most guys are like, oh, I released this video, I got no views, but why not?
01:19:39.908 --> 01:19:41.231
Like, how do you debug something?
01:19:41.231 --> 01:19:43.101
How do you look at why it's not working?
01:19:43.101 --> 01:19:47.453
Is the title, thumbnail, show notes, intro hook wrong?
01:19:47.453 --> 01:19:48.396
Like where's the issues?
01:19:48.396 --> 01:19:53.609
Okay, next week we do another rep and then how long are you willing to play the game?
01:19:54.131 --> 01:20:11.643
So I think the beautiful part from because I come from a bodybuilding background, I literally can just record for the rest of my life and not expect anything, because I know just how difficult it is to build a physique and make progress and go from 100 kilos on a bench to 105 kilos is like six months of training or whatever you know.
01:20:11.643 --> 01:20:12.125
Yeah.
01:20:12.125 --> 01:20:18.109
So I think having that infinite approach has been so much easier to build these systems and constantly iterate on them.
01:20:18.109 --> 01:20:19.442
And now it's just turnkey.
01:20:19.442 --> 01:20:27.375
We can either just integrate it with someone straight away and immediately get results, or teach someone to immediately get results through it.
01:20:27.375 --> 01:20:37.286
Yeah, so it's just a combination of that system, process and then mainly the kind of philosophy behind that as well okay, so it seems like of it.
01:20:37.405 --> 01:20:40.493
you said like 90 of the value is kind of the strategy.
01:20:40.493 --> 01:20:51.640
Like at a level anybody can produce a podcast, but the strategy becomes really important.
01:20:51.640 --> 01:20:58.913
So like what's the kind of if?
01:20:58.913 --> 01:21:12.623
If somebody is in a lift with you and you've got a minute to go from level 50 down to level one and you've only got that minute to help them in a podcast out out of the park, what?
01:21:12.623 --> 01:21:17.038
What are the two or three things that you focus on and all of the shit that you neglect?
01:21:17.479 --> 01:21:18.481
just the content pillars.
01:21:18.481 --> 01:21:19.632
That's the only that's important.
01:21:19.632 --> 01:21:21.157
So there's no point.
01:21:21.157 --> 01:21:25.768
You can't grow something that's not ideally in a good position, right?
01:21:25.768 --> 01:21:26.890
This is what product market fit is.
01:21:26.890 --> 01:21:28.054
I call it podcast market fit.
01:21:28.054 --> 01:21:40.801
So if you're a design business, your content pillars are your personal experiences, what you've gone through the past eight years, tactical guides and then also like how-to framework, so your unique mechanism.
01:21:40.801 --> 01:21:42.350
That's your entire framework.
01:21:42.350 --> 01:21:57.000
From there you can find guests, content ideas, post ideas, you can convert those post ideas into different things, but that entire structure that work in the beginning, which can just be on lucid chart dude yeah just breaking out a small content pillar framework that's.
01:21:57.081 --> 01:21:59.792
And then all of these pillars feed into your products and services.
01:21:59.792 --> 01:22:09.605
And once you know you're living that alignment, whether you're working with someone like us or whether you're even looking at yourself, if you know you're going off and talking about relationships over here, it's outside of that framework.
01:22:09.605 --> 01:22:15.470
So you can't be upset with yourself if you're not growing or not making money because it's not in the framework.
01:22:15.470 --> 01:22:19.662
You can, of course, add things in, but that's most important than anything else.
01:22:19.662 --> 01:22:24.595
Add things in, but that's most important than anything else.
01:22:24.595 --> 01:22:28.551
And that's why people like lex friedman and diary ceo and all these guys they really focus on that initially, which was that philosophy.
01:22:28.551 --> 01:22:36.979
And then all the growth stuff is just something that happens, whether you do it a va does it whatever the clips may look like shit or whatnot.
01:22:36.979 --> 01:22:40.572
But if that structure is wrong, then we're growing the wrong thing.
01:22:40.591 --> 01:22:50.921
And and the last piece of that is our framework is like strategy growth is monetization, but it's it's an equation, it's strategy plus growth is the monetization.
01:22:50.921 --> 01:22:53.350
If you take out one of them, you're falling apart.
01:22:53.350 --> 01:23:04.421
So if the strategy is dialed but you're not growing it, well then you're still not going to monetize it If you're growing it, doing all this hooks and crap and all that shit, but the strategy is off.
01:23:04.421 --> 01:23:05.423
You're not going to monetize it.
01:23:05.423 --> 01:23:13.136
It's only when they're too in alignment, and that can be a 20 minute conversation on a whiteboard or it can be a four-day thing.
01:23:13.136 --> 01:23:15.528
I know some people in our program that just jumped up straight away.
01:23:15.528 --> 01:23:18.154
They did the whole thing in 20 minutes yeah uh, even me.
01:23:18.255 --> 01:23:22.091
I'm such a fail forward kind of guy, just like fail forward, break it, fix it, whatever.
01:23:22.091 --> 01:23:33.680
So I just do it on the go, where some people have spent two or three weeks devising it and fixing it and iterating it and getting approval and all this kind of stuff yeah but once that's dialed in, nothing else is important.
01:23:33.782 --> 01:23:34.625
This is only this matters.
01:23:34.625 --> 01:23:42.949
So anything, because that that goes like from inception to recording, to producing, to the business you're trying to sell or the product you're trying to sell.
01:23:42.949 --> 01:23:46.637
You mentioned about reverse engineering, the end goal from an ad.
01:23:46.997 --> 01:23:47.520
Yeah, same shit.
01:23:47.520 --> 01:23:48.601
Yeah, yeah, got it.
01:23:48.601 --> 01:24:09.484
So then, from like a frequency it kind of doesn't matter, as long as it's consistent, yeah, frequency, it kind of doesn't matter and as long as it's consistent, yeah, like the consistency, it doesn't strike me that algorithms play a role as much it's.
01:24:10.145 --> 01:24:23.414
It's more, the consistency creates a better podcast well, consistency creates a better tribe because they're expecting it yeah if I have a late release on a wednesday, I'll have a bunch of dms being like where's the podcast?
01:24:23.414 --> 01:24:31.179
Because everyone knows that for the past four years you'll get an episode from me every wednesday yeah so it's that it's the mental real estate you occupy in someone's brain.
01:24:31.520 --> 01:24:53.002
Yeah, but when you're thinking through the lens, which is more like an infinite game, you're less focused on trying to beat other people, so it's not about how many episodes you can produce, like the amount of guys that were my friends in 2022, that tried to compete with me in 2023, that tried to play a finite game to an infinite problem yeah it's hilarious because they all a lot of them gave up.
01:24:53.002 --> 01:24:56.819
They were good and they gave up yeah because they were trying to like play this.
01:24:57.260 --> 01:24:59.332
Oh it's, I, got to do more, got to do more, got to do more.
01:24:59.332 --> 01:25:14.198
Whereas, like I've literally just been over here on my own, like I don't compete with anyone, I'm gonna do it this way and this is the way that's gonna generate results for us yeah so a lot of the big guys that you see they actually work with production houses and those.
01:25:15.220 --> 01:25:24.073
So a lot of the biggest shows you see they have worked with a couple of houses and smaller creators will join them and they'll try put a square picture, a circle hole.
01:25:24.073 --> 01:25:28.833
So we've had clients join us that we're doing nine episodes a month and they're super burned out.
01:25:28.833 --> 01:25:31.500
They'll join us and I'll I'll cut it in half.
01:25:31.500 --> 01:25:36.201
Yeah, I'll get them to do four if they've been doing eight and as you're doing four, I might get them to do two.
01:25:36.201 --> 01:25:45.123
Yeah, and then we'll just really dial two to four episodes a month and then really focus on growing those and debugging those where they are or not working.
01:25:45.123 --> 01:25:47.194
If they are working, that's great, we can focus on that.
01:25:47.194 --> 01:25:50.137
So it's less about scale or volume.
01:25:50.137 --> 01:25:50.840
So I'll give an example.
01:25:50.840 --> 01:26:00.337
I was thinking about doing the three episodes a month approach, joe Rogan, chris Williamson approach three episodes a week approach and when I did it I was just miserable.
01:26:00.337 --> 01:26:08.532
I never got the three, I'd get the two, I would two, two, two and it was always a hassle, just, and what happened was the unit economics didn't work out.
01:26:09.094 --> 01:26:17.569
We were getting less views and downloads per episode yeah so it actually people couldn't consume as fast as we were releasing, and also people just didn't give a shit about it as much.
01:26:17.569 --> 01:26:20.474
So now we've just gone down to five to six a month.
01:26:20.474 --> 01:26:26.782
Yeah, and it's a nice sweet spot okay, and so it's it's.
01:26:26.902 --> 01:26:37.729
It's really the idea that you just want to put more quality into potentially one a week yeah that's a lot dude, like that's a lot of stuff, is it?
01:26:37.748 --> 01:26:38.993
yeah, because you think about it.
01:26:38.993 --> 01:26:45.711
Right, it's not like the thing with a podcast is that if you're doing one a week, it's not just like you turn on the microphone and release and record.
01:26:45.711 --> 01:27:12.076
It's the fact that you have to think about the guests find the guests, connect the guests, bring them into your ecosystem book time in, do the preparation record, then produce, release, grow and manage it from there yeah so that one episode a week you see on spotify has actually been 5, 10, 15 hours yeah of continuous improvement and whatnot, and bear in mind that that's only process, that's input yeah the outcome is still undefined.
01:27:12.716 --> 01:27:20.323
The output is there one one equal one unit of productivity, one episode, but then the outcome is not there.
01:27:20.323 --> 01:27:27.673
So that's where a lot of guys will join us seven years into their journey and be like we're just moving sideways yeah, because they've never actually tried to get better.
01:27:28.095 --> 01:27:33.617
You know, and, dude, like I put up a photo last night here which was like a before and after of, like, us building the studio.
01:27:33.617 --> 01:27:36.587
That can be better right when we're in person.
01:27:36.587 --> 01:27:44.417
This episode will perform way better than recording remotely, because your room may not have the sound proofing that this room does.
01:27:44.417 --> 01:27:47.109
That's so small, but that could be what you're missing.
01:27:47.109 --> 01:27:48.456
Yeah, yeah, you know.
01:27:48.456 --> 01:28:04.377
So, like, yes, we'll work on, like, debugging the content and the content structure and the pillars, for sure, but at the same time, you could just be mixing a front light genuinely dude or a backlight that will lead to a better retention on a clip, that will lead to more views, and it could be as simple as that.
01:28:04.377 --> 01:28:05.500
So I'll give an example.
01:28:05.500 --> 01:28:10.902
We had a weekly call this week and the guys, a lot of guys, don't want to talk about production too much.
01:28:10.902 --> 01:28:21.378
I don't like talking about production either, but I was sitting there being like, the reason why some of your episodes are not growing is literally because you're not changing angle between who's speaking, who's not speaking.
01:28:21.399 --> 01:28:26.752
You just have two people like this yeah I was like dude, not going to lie, I'm 90 sure that's the reason why you're not growing.
01:28:26.752 --> 01:28:35.020
It's because the angle looks shit interesting I was like dude, like it's as simple as that, just fucking pay an editor to swap the angle.
01:28:35.041 --> 01:28:43.925
So it has a bit more engagement so you, you, you definitely recommend, because the the vast majority of my podcast content is just me talking.
01:28:44.770 --> 01:28:49.381
I think you could get other guys that are like killers in the design space or pulling people across.
01:28:49.381 --> 01:28:50.023
I'll give you an example.
01:28:50.023 --> 01:28:51.795
So I told you I know Chris.
01:28:51.795 --> 01:28:57.362
With Chris, though, they help design people become more logical with business right.
01:28:57.362 --> 01:29:05.018
In doing that, he will bring in people that are personal brand guys like jasmine alec, who I know well, who's big on linkedin.
01:29:05.018 --> 01:29:15.175
He'll bring in sales guys like chris voss and negotiation to help some of client contracts, and he'll bring in some other guys just on delivery, fulfillment, community building and stuff like this.
01:29:15.175 --> 01:29:17.179
They don't know anything, but is it?
01:29:17.179 --> 01:29:18.761
Yeah zero.
01:29:19.143 --> 01:29:21.649
But those philosophies like we talked about are everything.
01:29:21.649 --> 01:29:23.314
Yeah, totally so for you.
01:29:23.314 --> 01:29:32.737
In that position you could just connect to other people that are they have a good idea of design or, let's say, their brand is kind of on point, at least you know they're not just completely alien to it yeah and then they can.
01:29:33.719 --> 01:29:47.582
The nuance and the examples they give are relevant to your people yeah right, and that's why people that we work with sometimes I like to say that like you, kind of want to be one step out of the detail to really connect with a broader people.
01:29:47.582 --> 01:29:48.533
So I'll give you an example.
01:29:48.533 --> 01:29:58.712
We work with a lot of sales podcasts, a lot of guys in sales, yeah, and the thing with sales is that the principles and practices and tactics and techniques are they're largely familiar.
01:29:58.712 --> 01:30:12.453
You got cold calling, cold email, uh, social media, dms for the most part, and got calls, whereas a lot of guys will have specific examples for, let's say, b2b sales in a german market, and the guys get kind of lost in the fucking the nuance.
01:30:12.453 --> 01:30:14.219
Right, they're like, oh, but I need to speak to this way.
01:30:14.219 --> 01:30:21.912
I'm like, no, no, no guys will discover you because you're sharing cold call techniques yeah when they come and speak to you or when they see the landing page.
01:30:21.931 --> 01:30:26.952
you can put the word b2b in there german speaking only but they have to connect with you first.
01:30:26.952 --> 01:30:34.720
But if you go down this rabbit hole of design businesses that are manufactured in japan and japan only to south australia, who the fuck is in that?
01:30:34.720 --> 01:30:48.722
Because the problem with this is that you now have to find people to listen that like podcasts, which is small, and then you have to like design podcasts, and then design podcasts that are also based in Australia, also do e-com and also do e-com in Japan.
01:30:48.722 --> 01:30:51.028
There's like eight people in Australia that.
01:30:51.047 --> 01:30:51.210
Do that.
01:30:51.210 --> 01:30:52.936
Yeah, it's like layered Facebook targeting.
01:30:53.198 --> 01:30:53.358
Right.
01:30:53.358 --> 01:30:56.614
So it's like that's the reason why you get seven views.
01:30:56.614 --> 01:31:08.176
So if we took a step out of all of that and just focus on design principles and then, when they click on the landing page, your specialty is import, export yeah not even to do with japan and australia, just import, export right.
01:31:08.176 --> 01:31:14.179
So it's just like we just flip the script, the positioning yeah, I think that's what I've been really focused on, even with my marketing.
01:31:14.238 --> 01:31:17.731
Is that, ideally, we want to, you know, done for you off.
01:31:17.731 --> 01:31:25.694
We want to work people like tech companies you know, hsbc, standard charities, salesforce.
01:31:25.694 --> 01:31:26.877
You want to work with those bigger guys.
01:31:26.877 --> 01:31:31.341
But we don't need to call them out and have their been like they're you in salesforce and do this.
01:31:31.341 --> 01:31:35.957
We can just basically call the people that have podcasts that are ran as a marketing channel for their business.
01:31:35.957 --> 01:31:40.198
One person business, 15 000 people business, same shit.
01:31:40.198 --> 01:31:42.547
Yeah, we're doing the same shit.
01:31:42.547 --> 01:31:43.490
Nothing changes.
01:31:43.551 --> 01:31:48.934
And that's where the podcast space got it wrong, because when people try to look at it as a marketing channel, they said, oh, it's b2b.
01:31:48.934 --> 01:31:56.199
And I was like no, yes, we can repurpose it as a blog and a newsletter and stuff, but you're still missing.
01:31:56.199 --> 01:31:57.807
Again, go where the money's at.
01:31:57.807 --> 01:32:03.061
Yeah, there's people that just want to use a podcast as a vessel to make more money and connect to people.
01:32:03.061 --> 01:32:03.564
And there's the.
01:32:03.564 --> 01:32:05.930
You know it goes back to um cash advertising.
01:32:05.930 --> 01:32:10.265
There's the early is the intrinsic, motivation and extrinsic, you know.
01:32:10.265 --> 01:32:12.033
So the intrinsic is like social status.
01:32:12.033 --> 01:32:14.721
Extrinsic is return on investment.
01:32:14.721 --> 01:32:20.055
Yeah, you know, but you, but you play that balance right and, for me taking fucking thousands of sales calls.
01:32:20.055 --> 01:32:20.676
I understand.
01:32:20.676 --> 01:32:22.822
I just understand what people want from a podcast.
01:32:23.021 --> 01:32:23.583
Yeah, totally.
01:32:23.583 --> 01:32:36.353
Is there anything that you do with the way that you set up the structure of the delivery of somebody's episode to optimize towards short form content and like repurposing, or is that just?
01:32:36.353 --> 01:32:42.515
Hey, let's just mine that two hours and see if there's stuff in it?
01:32:42.817 --> 01:32:43.690
there's different ways to look at it.
01:32:43.690 --> 01:32:46.516
So one we focus on video first.
01:32:46.516 --> 01:32:47.359
I said I see before.
01:32:47.359 --> 01:33:01.658
So a video first podcast gives you as much leverage as possible, because it's like a waterfall if you focus on a nailing, a really strong video, that will waterfall into audio and then a waterfall into linkedin, instagram, twitter and then it can be rewritten as your newsletter.
01:33:01.658 --> 01:33:07.560
Whereas if you focus on audio first, you're not going to have that ability because audio first means that you're very restricted.
01:33:07.560 --> 01:33:09.176
You don't have that much levers.
01:33:09.176 --> 01:33:16.240
Now, in doing so with a great video, you can have good lighting, good setup, good elegance around the video.
01:33:16.240 --> 01:33:23.341
And then we've already talked about the strategy being dialed in and now it becomes how you show up and not be a potato on the internet.
01:33:23.341 --> 01:33:28.722
So how clear, succinct you are, how you, the energy you bring into it.
01:33:28.722 --> 01:33:34.229
So almost like, how do we prime it like that without doing it as a vessel just for short form?
01:33:34.229 --> 01:33:34.630
Yeah.
01:33:34.810 --> 01:33:48.478
Because if, because my best, my best self, is literally sitting here and just talking, yeah, you know, whereas when I try to do the talking head videos, the short form videos, even though I'm a good speaker, I just you lose the magic.
01:33:48.478 --> 01:34:01.481
I lose the magic Exactly, whereas, like me, my zone of genius is, like here, feeling comfortable with someone telling them stories, telling them vice versa, and then all that kind of magic happens and then that can be repurposed for short form and so on.
01:34:01.481 --> 01:34:04.542
But again, the goal of a podcast is not short form.
01:34:04.542 --> 01:34:06.270
The goal of the podcast is the podcast.
01:34:06.270 --> 01:34:15.840
Yeah, and that's what most people get wrong, because they've seen the big boys get 60 000 views a clip and it's like that wasn't the goal of the podcast.
01:34:16.159 --> 01:34:30.792
Yeah, the goal is the long form trust authority brand yeah and the short form is the short form and they just got so good at their long form that you can cut parts out of it yeah, it's like going to the gym to train for a marathon.
01:34:31.193 --> 01:34:49.733
It's like, okay, being physically fit and healthy will help for marathon training, but my bench press does not mean I'm going to run better yeah but because I was an athlete in the gym and a bodybuilder, I'm primed to probably run at a good level yeah but it's like we're solving the wrong.
01:34:50.414 --> 01:35:00.854
We're solving a problem in the with the wrong solution yeah, got it and like anyone can view that as like stupid, but for some reason people talk to care more about their short form versus their long form.
01:35:00.854 --> 01:35:02.859
You know it's a weird thing.
01:35:02.859 --> 01:35:08.494
And then there's the other side of it then, which is like, what are you optimizing for?
01:35:08.494 --> 01:35:31.350
Like, all the downstream effects of like revenue and leads and sales is a byproduct of building a really good content system, no-transcript.
01:35:31.350 --> 01:35:54.260
And then design is a vessel that you've used to get there and that's very true of when people come in, like the majority of people that I meet through my podcast will always say, always mention they understand my values because I just like I'm very, very dialed in in terms of like what I believe and you know, back to the worldview yeah, yeah back to the world and that's evolved for me, being a 24 year old kid not having a clue what I'm doing, to being four years later.
01:35:54.300 --> 01:36:00.198
You know, yeah, but people can see that at an essence level and I'm not making it up because you don't.
01:36:00.238 --> 01:36:39.657
You can't make it up over 240 episodes because the cracks would fester in totally whereas if I see someone's lambo on their instagram reel, I know it's manufactured yeah, totally yeah, the, the, this, like there's something that I discovered with my content like is like I can dramatically improve all of the content, like I've always been of the idea that it's the ideas that you circulate, circulate that are really important, but I'm I'm probably also understanding that there's a heap of optimizations around, like my video stuff, that that would allow things to to move to another level.
01:36:39.657 --> 01:36:45.707
So, like do you think it's better to like I just basically recorded in our spare bedroom in our villa?
01:36:45.707 --> 01:36:52.439
Yeah, but like is it better to dedicate a day a month to come into here and and produce it this way?
01:36:53.662 --> 01:36:56.359
it's all about how you want to show up, right, it's like what?
01:36:56.359 --> 01:37:00.012
Like it makes sense for me to do this because we have a podcast business and also I would.
01:37:00.012 --> 01:37:06.555
I prefer to do this, but even my home setup is still super dull, like I have all these cameras, all these, all the equipment and whatnot.
01:37:06.555 --> 01:37:12.569
But then you've someone like charlie morgan or william brown who have these super raw videos because there's a counterculture, right for every trend.
01:37:12.609 --> 01:37:19.761
There's a counter trend, yeah and I spoke to rory sutherland about this for a very long time which is like when you have ai, you have natural conversations.
01:37:19.761 --> 01:37:22.532
When you have bodybuilding, you've high rocks.
01:37:22.532 --> 01:37:23.835
There's always an ebb and flow.
01:37:23.835 --> 01:37:28.913
Ebb and flow well, but it's all about where you want to sit yourself, situate yourself in that.
01:37:28.913 --> 01:37:38.771
You know, because I, I guess, to some degree, take myself more seriously I prefer that brand is designed, look, and it's just more of a natural flow to me.
01:37:38.771 --> 01:37:57.601
Like I feel like if I met a good guest and he would come to my house and we'll just record with some iphones, I wouldn't feel as natural with that yeah, totally you get me yeah um, even like we're going to the us soon and I floated to a guy that we would do it in his house, it made me anxious because I was like now I gotta what if?
01:37:57.783 --> 01:37:59.314
what if he's using tiles as a floor?
01:37:59.314 --> 01:37:59.876
Yeah, and that totally.
01:37:59.876 --> 01:38:06.171
And that for me, then is at odds to the way that I want to show up, yeah, and present just who I am and not showcase bullshit.
01:38:06.171 --> 01:38:07.354
But it's just the way that I'm.
01:38:07.354 --> 01:38:09.777
What do I value?
01:38:09.777 --> 01:38:11.859
Yeah, you know yeah.
01:38:12.240 --> 01:38:15.164
So, like you could be, it's more like what do I think?
01:38:15.164 --> 01:38:19.914
What content am I comfortable producing?
01:38:19.914 --> 01:38:33.447
It's like it comes down to your root belief of what content should be and like, I'm sure, at a level, like your biases are, like content should be well-produced, because I enjoy well-produced content.
01:38:33.447 --> 01:38:41.436
You know what I mean and like what I've found is this is just my crackpot theory and I might be completely wrong.
01:38:41.436 --> 01:38:44.350
Wrong, but my space is over polished.
01:38:44.350 --> 01:38:55.600
So the minute that I come in with a grainy, those videos, those raw videos on the whiteboard yeah, it's like something magical happens because it's so disruptive in nature.
01:38:55.680 --> 01:39:05.520
People are like christo is so polished and it's like the best looking content ever and it's super valuable but some of his videos aren't though, because he used them from workshops.
01:39:06.231 --> 01:39:09.059
Yeah, but there's a wide angle do you get me, but they're still.
01:39:09.259 --> 01:39:17.778
They're still like, but they're the most optimally produced based on the context yeah does that make sense?
01:39:17.837 --> 01:39:24.725
Whereas up the other end you've got Charlie Morgan, and I love both.
01:39:24.725 --> 01:39:38.145
Yeah, like there's Charlie, and what I love about Charlie Morgan's content is you're getting something that only a $10 million a year entrepreneur can tell you.
01:39:38.145 --> 01:39:48.951
You know what I mean, and I kind of like err more towards his way of thinking, because I think it's more about the ip than it is the presentation of the ip.
01:39:48.951 --> 01:39:58.778
And the other thing that I've noticed is I get people that come in who are like they're like get it, they're like I get it.
01:39:58.778 --> 01:40:00.000
The polish.
01:40:00.000 --> 01:40:09.975
The polish as a designer is not the most important thing, it's it's the, the fundamentals under it, and I feel like really good content.
01:40:09.975 --> 01:40:20.854
It brings in people that their biases around, around things that don't have as much leverage if that makes sense in my market personally, you're right.
01:40:20.875 --> 01:40:23.279
You're right, man, and your customers are a reflection of you, right?
01:40:23.279 --> 01:40:39.335
So, like, if you're telling people that it has to be super specific and perfect, well, it's the optics, again right, but you're optimizing for the wrong metric, whereas, like somebody, charlie morgan is optimizing for the content yeah because that's the vessel of how he got to where he is and how he can help you get to that point too.
01:40:39.876 --> 01:40:40.577
Same point, right.
01:40:40.577 --> 01:40:43.902
So it's like more of like a spectrum, you know.
01:40:43.902 --> 01:40:48.222
But again, this is the funny thing is that with a lot of things in business, there's no right way.
01:40:48.222 --> 01:40:51.975
It's not ads versus content, it's not unpolished versus polished.
01:40:51.975 --> 01:41:03.372
It's about what way do you does darren lee want to show up like in his truest form, which can be either, can be neither, can be hanging upside down from a tree, right?
01:41:03.372 --> 01:41:07.101
It's just whatever suits me best that I actually really enjoy.
01:41:07.122 --> 01:41:18.914
Yeah, like um, after covid, there was a big push to to go into studios for podcasts and we were one of the early people that like really nailed the video on long form.
01:41:18.914 --> 01:41:26.197
But at the same time I didn't want to give up the reach I had online for getting any guests and so on and so forth.
01:41:26.197 --> 01:41:38.207
So I stayed in the online space still, but doing a nice marriage of the two when most people wouldn't and most people's podcast never, never, uh continued because they tried to do low uh in person and they could.
01:41:38.207 --> 01:41:43.113
They had to be in London or Dubai or Bali, miami, and it just was not operationally.
01:41:43.113 --> 01:41:53.051
Logistically, work works right, whereas for me I can do four episodes in a week, recording months content right there, and just do them all from my bedroom, you know okay, so they.
01:41:54.976 --> 01:41:56.180
So that that was my next question.
01:41:56.180 --> 01:41:59.771
How do you deal with solving the challenge of not being face to face?
01:42:00.814 --> 01:42:16.391
yeah, it's just more so, like how you show up, as, like a lot of these guys that I'm interviewing in particular are guys in the content space, so they know the game, you know, and especially they understand the content of like, repurposing, like, even giving you these files afterwards, like I can obviously point you in the right direction of how to create them or use them.
01:42:16.391 --> 01:42:25.938
Or we, what we actually do is we create content for guests sometimes we do in our program too, so we teach people how to create content for people to post about the content for their guests.
01:42:25.938 --> 01:42:36.355
So I'm interviewing people who are kind of in the I call it creator entrepreneurs guys who create content as their main vessel for their business, but not like a creator.
01:42:36.355 --> 01:42:39.720
This could be a Chris Doe or Hermosi Matt Gray, justin Welsh.
01:42:39.720 --> 01:42:40.951
They're more creator entrepreneurs.
01:42:40.951 --> 01:42:43.215
This could be a Chris Doe or Hermosi Matt Gray, justin Welsh they're more creator entrepreneurs.
01:42:43.215 --> 01:42:46.019
So they're the guys that the content pops and that can be remote or whatnot.
01:42:46.059 --> 01:42:58.653
So, like, I recorded two podcasts with Justin Welsh you know Justin, yeah, I know him well and like the first one, you know it was very it was just like yeah, hop on a call, zoom, call, whatever.
01:42:58.653 --> 01:42:59.314
And then the second one.
01:42:59.314 --> 01:43:12.472
We met in New York and we were sitting in like a lobby together and we had a lot of similarities, like he loves dogs, we love dogs, and my partner and we ended up bear in mind it's justin welsh and we're spending 30 minutes talking about dogs- yeah, that's hilarious you know what I mean.
01:43:12.493 --> 01:43:17.452
He's like known for all of this stuff yeah, this business shit, and like we're just literally talking about random dogs.
01:43:17.452 --> 01:43:18.694
He's like I love this type of dog.
01:43:18.694 --> 01:43:19.454
I'm like same.
01:43:19.454 --> 01:43:23.041
It's just so weird that that wouldn't have happened remotely.
01:43:23.041 --> 01:43:26.109
But you can plant seeds remotely though, right, yeah, do you get me?
01:43:26.109 --> 01:43:30.418
Yeah, totally, so you can still do a lot of cool shit remotely it.
01:43:30.519 --> 01:43:35.012
It seems, um, it seems like the effort in person is way less.
01:43:35.012 --> 01:43:40.543
It just kind of rolls more because it like for me, like that there's.
01:43:40.543 --> 01:43:51.518
There's people that, like I've, I've jumped onto the the call with to do a podcast, like a student that's done a really good job of, you know, closing their first six-figure deal or or reaching a milestone.
01:43:51.518 --> 01:43:57.894
Some people go into presentation mode, some people just just chat.
01:43:58.295 --> 01:44:04.974
We're just chatting, yeah, we just if anything, I wouldn't have had a hit record button, it would just been recording already.
01:44:05.014 --> 01:44:24.921
We just come in like, oh, we just start going yeah, totally and like I've kind of went full 180 with that, like because I used to be like a retention whore where about, like, I had to have like a really good intro, a really good baseline, all this kind of stuff, whereas now I kind of want to put people in their most relaxed seat and then intuitively have these things pop up, you know, um, but again it's nuanced, though.
01:44:24.921 --> 01:44:31.501
I think the thing with your students I checked out some of those videos is those guys may not be primed for content yeah, totally you know.
01:44:31.581 --> 01:44:43.554
So, like it's like if you're getting someone who knows the podcast, not a podcast space, but the concept of coming on and sharing their knowledge, which is why people who have launched a book are the best totally people in general.
01:44:43.554 --> 01:44:50.939
But, funnily enough, there's actually a correlation between like poor performing episodes and people have released books because they're kind of on a run.
01:44:50.939 --> 01:44:54.578
Yeah, that, like that content can be found on anyone's show.
01:44:54.578 --> 01:44:57.350
Yeah, I got it, but the content is super valuable.
01:44:57.350 --> 01:44:58.515
Yeah, like it's.
01:44:58.515 --> 01:45:00.342
It's a very unique episode.
01:45:00.342 --> 01:45:07.240
It's not like the basis of like most podcasts because it's because it's the book, but it's a it's a weird one.
01:45:07.240 --> 01:45:11.221
It's a weird one because I've seen a lot of other podcasts, even on my own show.
01:45:11.221 --> 01:45:13.411
I'm like this deserves way more engagement.
01:45:14.313 --> 01:45:32.725
Um, do you see a lot of, because I've I've a lot of the time I just feel comfortable in monologue just kind of ranting around an idea and kind of just laying out it is, it is really tiring, but the other thing it doesn't.
01:45:34.591 --> 01:45:40.896
I'm not too concerned to produce a piece of content that goes for an hour, I'd rather just if it only takes me five minutes.
01:45:40.896 --> 01:45:50.975
If it takes me five minutes to get the point across, it's like does that piece of content contribute and create enough leverage?
01:45:50.975 --> 01:46:01.770
Or because you hear the story of like authors the first time incredible premise for a book, incredible IP going to a publisher and going.
01:46:01.770 --> 01:46:03.393
It's amazing.
01:46:03.393 --> 01:46:04.996
But we need another 200 pages.
01:46:04.996 --> 01:46:17.363
And then what happens with the book is you get the whole value of the book in the first third and then it's just a reiteration for the, the the following two thirds, because they needed to to hit their 400 page quota.
01:46:17.363 --> 01:46:18.408
Yeah, so is there?
01:46:18.408 --> 01:46:20.319
Is there kind of the same thing happening?
01:46:21.344 --> 01:46:21.505
well.
01:46:21.505 --> 01:46:27.079
If it's individual, like monologue, just you talking, then you don't need to labor on the point.
01:46:27.079 --> 01:46:32.283
You know, I think the best podcast scenarios are, I would determine, a podcast.
01:46:32.283 --> 01:46:41.394
You're much more like two people and it's more like flowy in between topics, like you see me do humbly turns and conversations not often because there's a way to do that.
01:46:41.394 --> 01:46:47.936
It's like a bridge topic and they're hard to do, even because a lot of this stuff is in my brain that I'm learning, that I've learned how to do these things.
01:46:48.779 --> 01:46:53.961
But you can only do hand turns in a podcast, not in a fucking individual video of how to improve someone's funnel.
01:46:53.961 --> 01:46:55.532
Right, that's the seven minute video.
01:46:55.532 --> 01:46:56.573
Yeah, yeah, but they are.
01:46:56.573 --> 01:47:01.543
But I mean, I didn't mean to say I'm exhausting, I meant to say authority to you earlier.
01:47:01.543 --> 01:47:07.981
But you're building more authority with individual videos whereas, like, it's true to grapevine, true to podcast.
01:47:08.002 --> 01:47:16.949
But that's why someone who's a beginner or starting works really well in the podcast context, because you can be the student and interview the biggest guest in the world.
01:47:16.949 --> 01:47:40.179
But just be someone who's inquisitive because, dude, if you're young, dumb, people who are super successful would love to cling to you, educate you totally and mentor you, and I've seen that with people that are 18 19 that have clung to me and I've helped a ton guys give up alcohol, start a business, fucking, leave their shitty nine to five just by virtue of the podcast.
01:47:40.179 --> 01:47:52.881
But similarly, the guests that I've on, some of the guys could be way further on, especially when I started and, um, they just like the philosophies, the values, the principle, the relentlessness.
01:47:52.881 --> 01:47:58.621
Like in a weak society, guys will fucking cling to someone who just doesn't give up.
01:47:58.621 --> 01:48:07.658
Yeah, anyway, like I remember hearing sal bloom says before being like you should just never bet against someone who's not willing to give up yeah, totally yeah, it's the funniest thing.
01:48:07.698 --> 01:48:10.930
If you just keep on going, that person is dangerous.
01:48:10.930 --> 01:48:28.172
Oh, 100% dangerous because they can, you can fill in the gaps yeah if you're making 10 15k a month, you can drop the 2k on a mastermind, learn all that shit to get to the 100k and that person is way more dangerous than someone who came for money or who's smart or got the business opportunity.
01:48:28.172 --> 01:48:31.046
Like those guys, they all fizzle out yeah and you're.
01:48:31.167 --> 01:48:37.773
You know, you're a little bit older than me, so you've probably seen the guys come in and out, but we're going to see a very interesting observation in the online business space, I think over the next couple years.
01:48:37.773 --> 01:48:40.815
Yeah, all these guys will go yeah, yeah, totally.
01:48:41.055 --> 01:49:00.817
And you see, like the, the other thing as well is that, like the, there might be a boom and bust with particular markets, um, and that's why I'm not, you shouldn't be interested in, in just learning everything in your community.
01:49:00.817 --> 01:49:04.996
It's really about trying to delve in, because what and what?
01:49:04.996 --> 01:49:11.913
Um, um, not james kemp, but the, the other james that was at the mastermind was kind of highlighting.
01:49:11.913 --> 01:49:21.863
Uh, the idea around is, is the more that you progress and the more you enter new environments, you learn how other people are moving in other ways.
01:49:21.863 --> 01:49:44.416
And, like, I know for a fact that and it should be for anyone and like, when you start living in different places and exposing yourself to different neighbors and your kids go to school with different parents and you know their kids and their parents, you start realizing, oh man, like that, there's people here that invest completely different to the way that I do.
01:49:44.416 --> 01:50:01.182
And the irony is in if, if I'm not absolutely stupid, the vast majority of of my worth will be the compounding of the cash flow, not the actual cash flow itself.
01:50:01.583 --> 01:50:07.734
Dude that's why like a six-figure business is how hard can you work?
01:50:07.734 --> 01:50:10.421
Seven-figure business business is like who can you hire?
01:50:10.421 --> 01:50:12.555
An eight-figure business is like who can you partner with?
01:50:12.555 --> 01:50:18.489
Yeah because, whether it's even cash flow, it's like where do we put the money and who's the guy that can take care of it, to invest it and whatnot?
01:50:18.489 --> 01:50:19.434
Yeah, it's.
01:50:19.434 --> 01:50:24.658
It's less to do with the actual execution, it's more to do with, like again, the leverage.
01:50:25.078 --> 01:50:32.814
Yeah, point of contact for leverage and that's an eight-figure cash flow business a year yeah you know, and I think, a guy, tim stoddard, who'd be great to connect with for yourself as well.
01:50:32.814 --> 01:50:36.853
He kind of instilled that with me because he's a little bit older than me mid-30s.
01:50:36.853 --> 01:50:39.457
They're doing like five and a half six million a year.
01:50:39.457 --> 01:50:44.496
He's barely doing 15 20 hours a week now and he's with four or five different portfolio companies.
01:50:44.496 --> 01:50:54.432
Some are info copy blogger is one of the companies, some are like seo and then he's an seo agency that has a full team that are doing done for you.
01:50:54.453 --> 01:50:57.600
Um, and that's what he said to me early on.
01:50:57.600 --> 01:51:01.609
He was like when you get good at something, you almost don't need to work anymore.
01:51:01.609 --> 01:51:04.302
You just need to find the right partner to elevate with.
01:51:04.302 --> 01:51:12.893
And that's even what we're thinking of doing even here to build individual businesses here or whatnot, or or more or more asian partners, dude like.
01:51:12.893 --> 01:51:18.475
We have some partnerships with some crazy studios in the world for their back end and for our coaching program.
01:51:18.475 --> 01:51:21.984
All it took was an email yeah, yeah an email and a call.
01:51:22.810 --> 01:51:23.391
Let's wrap up.
01:51:23.391 --> 01:51:25.475
Dude, gotta head to the airport oh, yeah, yeah, good boy.
