Nomadcast takeover for Indigenous Peoples' Day

00:00:04
Speaker 1: Hi, everyone.
00:00:16
Speaker 2: It's James.
00:00:17
Speaker 3: And today we've got something a little different for you. Today is Indigenous Peoples Day. And I didn't want to just breeze through that. It's not a holiday that we get off, so we're not going to not make an episode. And within our group who makes podcasts, we reflected on what to do best. And we thought that the best thing to do would be to use the platform that we have to share a podcast made by indigenous folks. In this case, it's Caleb or Moose and Cheyenne and their wonderful podcast, Nomadcast. In particular, we chose this episode talking to Caleb. It's an interview with Mato Waiuhi. And I think it's a really great conversation. There's a lot of really important themes touched on. It's just really great. to hear people being vulnerable in this way. There's a lot of discussion of grief and the loss of close relatives. I've spoken about grief a lot in my own work too, but if grief is not something that you want to hear about about halfway through this, that that does begin, you'll get a little bit of a heads up and you can skip that. I hope that you'll listen to this. I hope you'll enjoy it. And I hope you'll go on over to wherever good podcasts are given away for free and subscribe to the Nomadcast. Next week, I will be back And I will be talking about the tree sit in Lachille. I was there last week where people are sitting, if you're not familiar, people are sitting in a tree, defending that tree from destruction by the border wall. That will be a two-part episode. So it'll be next Monday and the Monday after. Oh, and if you would like to contact us, you can do. It is naturalcausespod at proton.me. I'd love to hear from you. I hope you'll enjoy this episode and thanks for listening.
00:01:58
Speaker 4: What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Nomadcast. My name is Caleb Enfield.
00:02:01
Speaker 5: And I'm Cheyenne Littleman.
00:02:18
Speaker 4: Today, we have a really cool episode. We talk with Matsu Waiyuhi. He's known for doing the score on a little television show called Reservation Dogs. You may have heard of it. It's available on Hulu and it's really good. It's got an all native cast and crew and he's no exception. Did the music. That's what the score means.
00:02:34
Speaker 6: So it's cool.
00:02:35
Speaker 7: You can find it on Spotify.
00:02:36
Speaker 4: You can find that on Spotify also. I, I knew that actually, I listened to it completely. I don't know why I've sounded surprised. Anyway, I liked the episode a lot this week and I say that every week, but this week I really feel good about it. Not only from like a, I think that it was a semi entertaining conversation, but because for me personally, and I think for Cheyenne as well, um, I'll let her speak to it in a second. Um, it was very satisfying. It was very gratifying afterwards.
00:03:07
Speaker 2: Immediately.
00:03:07
Speaker 4: I felt like I had taken something from it.
00:03:10
Speaker 7: Me too. There's a lot of things that I could have taken with me and I feel like it's going to be with me for forever. Yeah. Yeah.
00:03:16
Speaker 8: He made a big impression on me.
00:03:18
Speaker 4: Me too, man.
00:03:18
Speaker 2: He was, he's good. He's awesome.
00:03:21
Speaker 4: Um, Um, we like him. He's a very talented musician, but outside of that, he's just a good person. He, you know, he was very vulnerable and open with us in a time when we needed that. And he was very, um, willing to share his experiences. Um, a little bit of a trigger warning. We do talk about death and grief, especially of immediate family. So if you are going to have a hard time with that, you know, might be a good one to tap out on. But, um, I do encourage you to listen. It's a lot about healing and a lot about, um, You know, we've talked about it before on the show, laughing when it's hard to laugh and that kind of thing.
00:03:54
Speaker 1: You know?
00:03:55
Speaker 8: Community relations.
00:03:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
00:03:57
Speaker 4: So it is a very weird episode, but it's also very good. And I felt good about it. And I think a lot of people will enjoy it.
00:04:06
Speaker 2: I agree.
00:04:07
Speaker 4: Well, outside of the grief and stuff, we talk about music. We talk about school. We talk about astrology. We talk about TV. We talk about everything. We get into it. You know, we go all over. It's a fun episode.
00:04:21
Speaker 2: It really is.
00:04:23
Speaker 4: And Mato is incredible. He's, like I said, he was just an open book. And he said it was his first podcast. And thank you for having this experience with us. That was cool.
00:04:31
Speaker 8: Yeah, taking all that time just to hang out.
00:04:34
Speaker 4: Yeah, really. And doing the legwork. Honestly, again, I can't thank you enough for that because we were going through that week and you came to the rescue. You made sure that the schedule stayed open and that you messaged me Privately on Instagram. That's crazy, man. Thank you.
00:04:50
Speaker 1: I agree.
00:04:52
Speaker 4: Yeah. Anyway, Cheyenne, she blundered a little in the episode. Do you want to explain it?
00:04:57
Speaker 7: Oh, yeah. I said the indications are the indicators and not the indications when I was referring to Duran Jones. So, yeah, I'm just a little embarrassed and it's been really bothering me.
00:05:10
Speaker 4: Yeah. She really loves that band. But we're going to shout them out anyway because she loves them and they're a smaller band. So go listen. And because we kind of disrespected them by saying their name wrong. Yeah. So go listen, everybody. And go listen to Matsuwayuhi. All his music is available on Spotify, including the Reservation Dogs soundtrack that he did the entire score of and he raps his ass off on. And it's really good. And listen to more Nomadcast and rate the episode. Share the episode. Like the episode. Interact with us on Instagram. instagram all that kind of stuff whatever you can do to boost the episodes uh or the show's.
00:05:46
Speaker 7: Signal we appreciate you for listening.
00:05:50
Speaker 4: All right everybody enjoy the show thank you i'm like like extremely nervous i don't know why the last two episodes i've just been like really hyper when i start it's good energy though i'm gonna carry it.
00:06:07
Speaker 2: I feel you yeah it's good to you know survival mentality. That being said, I'm pretty cool. Like I'm not, I have no.
00:06:13
Speaker 4: No, I was like, I, like I was saying, we just watched your, uh, your native max live thing with the Instagram live with native max magazine. And it was great that whoever the interviewer was, the host, I don't, I didn't catch her name. Cause we got there late. Um, she was great too. She did a really good job.
00:06:33
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's my friend Renata. Uh, Renata Yazzie. She's Navajo. We met in New Mexico. She lives out in Albuquerque. I was out there basically half of 2021. We met through a mutual friend and she's a classical pianist. We've jammed before. The conversation we had is basically what we have just when one-on-one regardless talking that in depth about music and stuff so yeah it was super great so she wrote an article a little while ago and then yeah they wanted to do an interview live and yeah it was cool i mean i love talking with her and it's funny they were the woman who runs native max magazine she's like oh you've done this before that's what she said to renata and that's the first time renata's done that and so yeah she's super she's very naturally talented.
00:07:27
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was great. And that makes a lot of sense, actually, the story, because, um, you, there was a great rapport, like you were so comfortable and you were so open and vulnerable. It was great. I really enjoyed the interview. I usually don't stick around for those things, admittedly. Um, and there, it was, it was awesome. I thought you guys both did great.
00:07:46
Speaker 2: Thank you, man. I appreciate that.
00:07:48
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course. Anyway, welcome to the show, man. This is a, it's really cool to have you on everybody. We're, we're talking with, um, Cheyenne and I, Cheyenne's here. You want to say hi or make a noise?
00:08:01
Speaker 8: Hi.
00:08:01
Speaker 4: Hey. Yeah, I don't think we've heard your voice the whole time, but we're talking with Matsuo Ayuhi today. And did I say that correctly? I don't want to.
00:08:09
Speaker 2: Yep, you did.
00:08:10
Speaker 4: Okay, I don't want to disrespect the name.
00:08:12
Speaker 7: He was stressing about it for like a couple of weeks.
00:08:16
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was, dude.
00:08:17
Speaker 8: I think I watched an interview or something.
00:08:20
Speaker 4: I watched several of them. I tried to catch the name a few times. We had different people would say it.
00:08:26
Speaker 2: It's cool, man. I, uh, yeah, I'm used to having to correct people. So it was cool.
00:08:31
Speaker 4: And like, even Lakotas, sometimes I get it wrong too. So yeah, that's interesting, man. I read the, the diary entries on your website. And, um, it's funny that that part made me laugh that you were talking about how I shortened my name to just Mato because even like people from my own tribe can't say it sometimes.
00:08:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, it was great. Yeah. It was, it's funny. There's, someone who I won't name, but he's not from my tribe. It's just funny. But so I performed at the 2019 indigenous people's day in LA and I, is that a cat?
00:09:06
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:09:06
Speaker 4: I think that's Charlie.
00:09:08
Speaker 6: Um, but yeah, I was performing and the MC was asking, how do I, how do I say your name?
00:09:18
Speaker 2: So he was trying to spell it, you know, from a phonic standpoint, like frenetically. And so I said, okay. So I kind of voiced it out. And then I got to the venue, which is in downtown LA and I meet him and he said, okay, so it's, it's Matto Waiyui. I said, no, it's Matto Waiyui. Three hours go by. I'm going on in five minutes. We're talking backstage. There's thousands of people there. It's a big show. And I'm all dressed up in my outfit and ready to go on, nervous. And he comes up to me again with a little sheet of paper and says, okay, Mato Waiyui. And so we're literally powwow drumming Mato Wai Yui. And he said, okay, okay, I got it. And so I'm backstage getting ready. And how's everybody doing? Happy Indigenous Peoples Day, blah, blah, blah. Our next performer from South Dakota is Please give a warm welcome to Mato Waiyui. Like no one clapped because they're like, who? I hear a couple like.
00:10:32
Speaker 4: Yeah, they know they're supposed to.
00:10:36
Speaker 1: Right.
00:10:36
Speaker 2: I'm backstage just with my hands in my knees. Just like, oh, God, it's so bad. But yeah, went on and it was OK. But yeah, so that's a long way to long winded answer. Yeah, that's cool.
00:10:49
Speaker 4: Well, I like the story. I think it was good.
00:10:51
Speaker 2: Thank you for sharing.
00:10:55
Speaker 4: Anyway, man, it's really cool to have you here. I'm very excited. I've been excited for weeks. I'm glad that you took the effort to make it work. Thank you for that. I know that it's been a couple of weeks. We've missed each other because of, you know, just reasons. We won't get into it, but thanks for, you know, thanks for doing the legwork and being there for us, man. It means a lot.
00:11:15
Speaker 2: No, no problem. And I'm a, I'm a new fan of the show. I would listen to some episodes recently. I listened to the most recent one, January 31st with something Jeffries, Caitlin Jeffries.
00:11:26
Speaker 7: Yeah.
00:11:26
Speaker 2: Her name.
00:11:27
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:11:28
Speaker 2: Yeah. Caitlin Jeffries. And then I listened to Sterling's cause I saw that he was on like last year. And so, yeah, I mean, they're great. And I love the, the vibe and yeah, I think y'all are doing really good stuff. I'm not, I'm not hip to many like native and indigenous led podcasts. So especially ones that are just like, cool, like, fuck it. Just cool.
00:11:49
Speaker 4: For sure. Just talk for sure. I'm going to talk some shit. We're the fucking best. We do it the best.
00:11:55
Speaker 2: 100%.
00:11:56
Speaker 4: I don't think that there's another podcast that does it like we do, or they have just, there's no tragic Indian narrative. You know, I'm just so sick of it, bro.
00:12:06
Speaker 2: All the way.
00:12:07
Speaker 4: You know, when Sterling talked on the show, he talked about how he didn't want to tell stories about dead Indians anymore. And that's like some shit that stuck with me. It's so important to me to, I carry that with every episode. I make sure that I try not to, I mean, those things come up, don't get me wrong. You know, there's tragedy, there's bad shit in our communities. You know, it's, it's evident even in reservation dog, something that he made, you know, when he made, when he's the one that taught me that. And it's, um, so we don't avoid it all the way, but we make sure that we always focus on what people are working on, what they're doing and how we can, how we can affect change and positivity in these communities that need it. You know, it's important shit.
00:12:45
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think to, to create us as a monolith and also as people who are one dimensional, it's really detrimental, bro. I feel like, you know, you, you dehumanize our experience as native and indigenous people. And it also creates this stoicism that even the word resilience, I mean, that can be kind of detrimental in some way because it's, it's, it's, it's taking away from the humanity of our experience and saying that, oh, we can go through hardship and trials and tribulations because we're so resilient. And obviously there's a way to use it and to contextualize it. But I feel like, yeah, in the grand scheme of things, talking about even ourselves as people who are very resilient and people who can get past everything, I feel like that, yeah, dehumanizes what we're going through because, you know, I don't know, there's so many dimensions to what we are and what our potential is and what we think we are and stuff. And so it's just, It's interesting. Yeah. It's, it's a really, it's a, it's a beautiful thing that I think is happening. That's always been happening, but I guess more at the forefront now, which is getting these multi-layered perspectives, you know?
00:13:52
Speaker 4: Yeah. People are starting to like have a more, I don't know. It's like what sold before had to sell to white people, you know, because white people were the only one that had access to entertainment. So like they had to tell tragic Indian stories because that's what white people eat up or they had to be like mystic, like, super traditional natives all the time um but now it's super different because the demographic is other native people you know we're not making the content for non-natives anymore making content for each other because we have the means to consume it and it's right damn bro the animals are going crazy tonight i'm so sorry.
00:14:26
Speaker 2: It's okay yeah i think something about mercury in retrograde or not in retrograde anymore something like that maybe it's making things work.
00:14:36
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know very little about it, but I know that just happened, so I agree.
00:14:40
Speaker 2: Yep, there you go. That's like the bane of my existence with like astrology and horoscope stuff. Someone will just say something random. Yeah, Pluto's on its third nectar bush, and I'll be like, oh, it's like.
00:14:52
Speaker 8: Makes sense.
00:14:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like, oh, that's why my taxes were late. Sometimes you gotta just succumb to it and be like, alright.
00:15:02
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I'm about... I'm the path to least resistance on a lot of things, man, especially things that, and I'm not talking shit, but things that just don't matter, you know, things that are just like a non-issue. It doesn't need to be. I'm just going to let you say, yeah, it's so fun.
00:15:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, no.
00:15:16
Speaker 7: I agree.
00:15:17
Speaker 2: And it's, it's, it's too, like, even from, I like observing folks and just seeing people talk about what they care about is super, it's so impactful to me. Like, I love it. Like, I love, like, I'm talkative in this medium, obviously, but most in like life, Like I'll be like chilling. Like I'll just be listening to people talk. I think it's so interesting to me. And I think it's also how I was raised too. It feels weird to like talk over people, especially older than you, just from a traditional standpoint. And so, yeah, I'm always just kind of sitting and hearing what people have to say. And yeah, it's super interesting. And yeah, hearing people sound off on what they think. And even if you don't agree, it's like, I love that you're doing this right now.
00:16:00
Speaker 4: Yeah, me too.
00:16:01
Speaker 2: You talk about what you're saying, even though I don't know what it is or like, yeah, I don't know.
00:16:07
Speaker 4: But I think about that all the time because, uh, I don't know. There's just so much to learn from other people. So like I make sure when it's, it's fucking probably kind of weird, but when I hear things out in the world or when I hear things in songs or movies or something, and they're interesting or new or different things that I've never heard of, I like play those over and over and over in my head until I, Form new ideas or have branching vocabulary or something off of it.
00:16:35
Speaker 8: I don't know.
00:16:35
Speaker 4: It's weird, man. I think about those things all the time, though. I think about words a lot. Like earlier when you were talking about the phenomena where resilience is kind of like a weird context in it, you know? I feel that way a lot of times with words like decolonize, you know? It's like, it's so fucking loaded. I mean, it's necessary. I know what it means, but it's weird. You know, it's been co-opted and just....
00:17:01
Speaker 2: Yeah no i agree i think it's it's it's it's really easy to stray away from the essence of what certain vernacular contains and vocabulary and whatnot yeah i think i think about that a lot too like i think yeah and with like i don't know it's just you got to really like break things down and i think things can become like an umbrella term and especially with decolonizing and things like I don't know. You got to really, and I don't, I'm not the expert on that in any regard. I have to decolonize as well, but it's, yeah, I think compartmentalizing it is best. And also just kind of like understanding that like posting, like what's funny to me. And this is just a, this is just like the, I don't know if this is like a comedic view or just kind of a hypocritical or, you know what I mean? But it's, it's funny to like, we, we, as a, And I'm not throwing shade or anything because I do it too, but it's just an observation where we are promoting this rhetoric of decolonization onto platforms that are owned by these hegemonic people who are profiting off of our data and in turn using it to advertise us and oftentimes weaponize our language. So it's funny to think, how are you decolonizing if you're feeding into the cog.
00:18:22
Speaker 4: Or if you're part of the machine.
00:18:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
00:18:25
Speaker 4: Yeah. No, I think about that a lot. Like I really wish there was a way to run a podcast without being on social media. Cause I, I don't know, man. I think a lot of my anxiety that like pops up in the middle of the day, if I ever feel weird, it's cause I see some weird shit, some sideways shit on the internet that I shouldn't have seen. I shouldn't have been on Twitter, you know?
00:18:43
Speaker 2: Like, yeah.
00:18:44
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:18:44
Speaker 1: I don't know.
00:18:44
Speaker 4: I think about that a lot too. Like what kind of fucking weird stuff is happening to us. We're getting in a weird place, man. To like our data and all that kind of stuff.
00:18:54
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, it's super whack. And the thing about phones listening and things.
00:19:02
Speaker 7: Yeah.
00:19:02
Speaker 2: It's just the whole thing. It's gross.
00:19:04
Speaker 4: It's funny. I had Alice, Alice Glenn on just like a couple of weeks ago. She's a host of another podcast. It's called coffee and quack. It's it's pretty good, but she she's from Alaska and now all of my tweets that are like in the recommended section are all like Alaska based tweets. It's really funny. It's weird because I don't know, I guess we interacted on Twitter, but it just, it's so weird how that stuff just pops up, you know, just becomes part of your, your feed. Cause it's what the algorithm detects you want.
00:19:36
Speaker 2: The cookies and everything. Yeah. It's, it's very interesting.
00:19:40
Speaker 4: And Cheyenne here works for the man, dude. She's part of that squad.
00:19:43
Speaker 2: What does that entail? What do you do?
00:19:47
Speaker 8: Well, I'm just tech support for a county. So I work with the government or for the government.
00:19:53
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:19:54
Speaker 2: Oh, well, you know.
00:19:56
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:19:56
Speaker 8: It's not as elaborate as Moose makes it sound. Yeah.
00:20:00
Speaker 2: It's not like you were like, it's like you thought of the data mining.
00:20:04
Speaker 7: Yeah. Yeah.
00:20:07
Speaker 4: No, but I think about that a lot, too, like how her connection to everything might make me more vulnerable to being watched. I'm just a paranoid person. Like, you brought it out, dude, when you started talking about all this. Jeez.
00:20:21
Speaker 2: It's funny.
00:20:21
Speaker 4: Before the show, when I saw that thing, when I saw the Instagram Live, I was telling Cheyenne that I was like, man, it's going to be a fun episode. Like, I can just tell, like, this dude's– he's like– he gets it. We're the same kind of person.
00:20:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I– I feel like it just, it's where your passion lies. And if you, yeah, just feel conversational and comfortable with folks. Yeah. I love, I mean, I can talk. I mean, and you miss that, bro. I miss that too. It's like, it's crazy with the pandemic. Like it's so funny how things get reoriented and how things just mean so much. They mean so much more and less after all this stuff. It's been almost two years now and it's, it's crazy. The craving so desperately to have conversation, you know, it's funny, not, this is not talking to shit about podcasts.
00:21:14
Speaker 4: Sure.
00:21:15
Speaker 2: Um, but so I, I noticed a correlation between my loneliness and the amount of podcasts I was in taking. So at my loneliest in the past, you know, I've struggled with that my whole life feeling lonely and other mental health shit, but like, um, specifically loneliness and, and feeling like you're part of a community and, I, when I'm at my loneliest, I'm, I'm listening to the most podcasts because I'm craving some sort of conversation. And it's funny how podcasts I studied. So for context, I studied, uh, cinema and media studies in college at USC university of Southern California. So my whole, basically my, my whole degree is in analyzing media. And so specifically film and television, but that, you know, it goes into podcasting as well. And so it's funny to me, it's, it's almost like, you kind of have a, it's a kind of a passive involvement in a conversation and that in turn makes you feel involved. And I think that's why there's such a burgeoning of podcasts because people, it's very much a passivity that you can do. You can still involve yourself in a conversation, but not necessarily have to contribute because of circumstance. Maybe you're literally isolated or, you know, maybe you're just not finding those conversations. And I think the pandemic, it kind of expedited a lot of stuff that I think was going to happen anyway, in terms of where technology is heading. And so it's just funny, like, yeah. And I say that all because I crave conversation these days. Like I love, like, it's so vital to me and like going back to the res and talking with people. And especially I feel like with the way the pandemic hit Indian country, you know, it's never been more important to make time to make time. And yeah, Yeah. I just think from a conversational standpoint, like, and it's bro, it's, it feels like a relic of a time gone by when you're, when you leave a conversation, you're like, dude, that felt so good.
00:23:09
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:23:10
Speaker 2: Good conversation. Cause now it's like, Oh, that was a good Instagram post. You're like, Oh, that was, that was a fire con comment I made. But now it's like, yeah, I feel like leaving and staying up all night at like a fire or something like those are few and far between now.
00:23:26
Speaker 4: And it's really strange.
00:23:26
Speaker 2: It's just, it's super, it's just, I don't know, debilitating.
00:23:29
Speaker 1: In a way.
00:23:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I feel that, man. And I actually got an example of that for the first time this past summer, because for the most part during the pandemic, we've, I mean, we've gone to like family things and stuff when the pandemic was, you know, lifted or whatever, when, you know, there was kind of breaks where it wasn't as bad. So we went to like cookouts and stuff. But the first time I hung out with like friends in a real way was this summer when I had a bunch of homies flying to Arizona. And after they all left, like, I cried a little bit, dude, because not, I mean, I just, I was like, damn, I don't get to talk like that to people. I don't get to hang out like that anymore. You know, I don't have, you know, it's like, and I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to talk shit about either. I'm so sorry. You're the best partner, but you know, it's like, I don't want anyone to think I was being negative about like that, but you know, I don't have those connections to do that in real life like that. And partly because the pandemic, I think it's just, it's crazy. All of it really sucks. like a shitload.
00:24:27
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I feel you. It's, um, yeah, it's a super weird phenomenon, but, um, I think like, Oh, go ahead.
00:24:38
Speaker 7: Oh, like our being in a small town or a reservation, if it's hard to find people that have the same interests, are you as you, or it's like awkward, like they don't know how to conversate with you either. At least that's the experience that I've had. Cause I want to talk to people, but it's hard to talk to people when they don't want to talk to you.
00:24:55
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:24:55
Speaker 4: Or when it feels like they don't want to talk to you. Like when it's like, it feels like they're being short, but they just, yeah, they're just awkward people. I feel it. Yeah. That's how I feel around a lot of people.
00:25:07
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:25:08
Speaker 2: No, I feel that that's, that's definitely real. And I think in Cheyenne, what you were saying, like that in turn is why the internet is so, there's been so many great avenues for, I think a lot of native kids like on the res, you know what I mean? Like, I think I remember, uh, in like 2017, 2018, like going back a lot in the summer and stuff when I would have time and interacting with kids there. And they just had this literacy of the internet in terms of these little pockets of fandom that I was just blown away by, you know, just, it's, it's so funny then, like, I don't want to generalize, but from what I experienced, the way that anime and like, um, like emo and Gothic stuff has just blown up. Cause it was always there. I remember my, you know, cousins and everything, they were always into it, but now it's, there's just a new found thing about it. And like, I think with TikTok and all that stuff, it's just, it's cool. Like, it's really cool to see. And I think it's, it's very, I think, you know, validating for a lot of kids out there for the people, you know, the alternative kids or the, you know, the queer kids or, you know, gender fluid kids and all this stuff. It's just, it's really nice to see that there's avenues now for the internet, but yeah, in turn, sometimes it breeds places where you can't like have those types of conversations or, you know, it's not, I think maybe they're kind of secondary now.
00:26:31
Speaker 1: Hmm.
00:26:32
Speaker 7: Yeah.
00:26:33
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:26:34
Speaker 4: So you weren't an anime, uh, anime, uh, emo goth kid when you were growing up?
00:26:40
Speaker 2: I listened to black Sabbath. So whatever that made me, um, just black.
00:26:46
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah.
00:26:47
Speaker 2: Like I listened to some like stuff from the seventies and stuff, but I don't know.
00:26:52
Speaker 1: I was not. Yeah. I will.
00:26:54
Speaker 2: I kind of was, I remember I'll tell this story cause it's a podcast, but I, uh, it's so funny. I, um, I was big into green day growing up, like, and that's all attributed to, My sister, Micah, she completely woke me up musically in my whole life. And so I was, I mean, I was young. This was 2003, 2004. So I was five and six years old. And I remember she played Boulevard of Broken Dreams off of American Indian. And it's track number four. And I remember, dude, that like woke me up. And I was like, I was so green. And I have an obsessive personality. And so when I'm into something, I'm in 10 toes deep and it's every, it controls my life. And I was also very impressionable growing up. So any figure that I look to, that was who I was. And so I was Billy Joe Armstrong for like four years of my life. And so that entailed me wearing. mascara to a bat mitzvah that I went to when I was eight years old. And bro, I literally snuck into my mom's bathroom and put on mascara, probably not even mascara, just something that looked like black makeup.
00:28:10
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:28:12
Speaker 2: I love that. And I look great. I think I probably look really pretty. And I, I work cause a bat mitzvah cause I'm, so I'm half native and half like ethnically Jewish and, I didn't practice Judaism, but like we, we went to a bat mitzvah and I, yeah, I was just wearing, wearing the mascara, feeling great. Where am I? I have a little yarmulke. Yeah. I, uh, I got later. Well, no, not at the bat mitzvah. Like not, not in the first thing, like, I don't know what it's even called, but not in the first ceremony section of it. Um, maybe cause I was low key. It wasn't like super, super wild. Um, but then, yeah, I went home. And then my dad found out and like traditional full-blooded Lakota dad finding out his son is wearing mascara to a bat mitzvah. He was less than happy. So I got my ass chewed and punished and like called all the names and yeah, I decided to take it off. But it was cool. I mean, like it was, it was a moment.
00:29:13
Speaker 4: It is what it is.
00:29:14
Speaker 7: Yeah.
00:29:15
Speaker 2: I remember my cousin, my like male cousin and I had a great moment of like breaking traits of toxic masculinity and We were at the park playing. I still had the mascara on. He goes, are you wearing makeup? And he's older than me. He was 11 at the time. I was eight. Actually, I think he was 12. You already know the cousin dynamic is out of whack. Like he owns the world. And so he says, are you wearing makeup? I said, yeah. And he just goes.
00:29:41
Speaker 1: Cool.
00:29:43
Speaker 2: And I was like, dope, let's move on.
00:29:46
Speaker 4: What a good example. Damn, that's the way to be a cousin.
00:29:49
Speaker 2: Right. It was a good, great cousin moment. So anyway, yeah, I grew up listening to Green Day a lot and that's what informed like it was always music though for me, like the obsessive things. And that's why I make it now. It's like, it was always like, I could not let it go. And so that led me to black Sabbath and other things, but no, I never watched anime. I still don't. I try my partner. She does her best to get me like into it.
00:30:14
Speaker 4: I'm just going to say it. I like some, like a couple, but they're, they're, they're not good. I'm sorry. They can be like conventions of like, these weird children being like 4,000 years old and shit. And like other weird things that happen in anime. I'm just not about it. And I'm not about like the weird yelling all the time and shit. It's just exhausting. It's just, and the episodes where it's like half of it's a recap of the last episode you just watched. I'm over it all. No more anime for me.
00:30:50
Speaker 2: I understand. I, yeah, I can, I can definitely see that. It's been, it's, it's a lot of a, it's like a culture shock. to me for me to watch it. And, but I, I, it's something I highly respect. It's just, I don't have a reference for it. And like, I think from a musical standpoint too, like everything I've heard is really cool. And a lot of the different artists and the composers that I am friends with and work with, they're constantly giving me, you know, just recommendations on what to watch.
00:31:18
Speaker 4: But yeah, dude, I, that was a critique solely of the writing of anime. Like I've seen almost every fight scene from like Naruto. Cause they're sick. I love the animation. That shit is so cool. You know what I mean? I just don't care about any of the characters. I just don't care. And I don't have time to watch 800 episodes of something, just to be honest.
00:31:42
Speaker 2: Yeah. I just have no literacy for it, so I try, but it's cool. I mean, it's definitely something I respect, but I just don't. Yeah, and I think that's okay. I think we got to be all right with that. to speak to your point of being like obsessive on the same way. And I think that's why I'm like super into rap music. Cause it's easy to be obsessive over it. Like if you find a line or a lyric you like, or a rapper that just makes these really crazy songs and it's easy to listen to it like a thousand times and never be like tired of it, you know? Cause all through like junior high and shit, I listened to a lot of like green day and other stuff like that.
00:32:19
Speaker 4: I don't know, blink 182 and stuff. But as I got older, I, just jump straight into like Eminem and exhibit and a bunch of those West coast based rappers. And that was like my basis for becoming, you know, the degenerate pot smoking podcast host that I am. I think.
00:32:37
Speaker 2: There you go. Oh, I was going to ask what you're, what you're asking. I, I like anime, but, but what I grew up with, I don't know.
00:32:53
Speaker 7: Honestly, I was always, alternative most calls me um what do you call me he called me a scene kid but um i listened to the playlist that you made on spotify so i think that's really good yeah yeah i really enjoy it and i like a lot of oldies as i get older i like um oldies music and i really liked short and sweet that you have on your playlist oh yes it's so good it gives me the goosebumps I'm very passionate about music and I'm not very good with explaining music and everything, but I know when it feels good.
00:33:33
Speaker 8: And I really like your playlist. It's a feel-good playlist.
00:33:37
Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you for saying that. I'm glad you like it. I mean, I got to look at the listing real quick. Yeah, I think. Let's see. Where is that? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm looking at it now. Yeah. I mean, that song is so Brittany Howard. She's such a phenomenal musician. And I saw that live a couple of months ago and I was blown away. She's so cool. It's something I'm learning on guitar right now too. Cause that song is, yeah, that's a beautiful song.
00:34:07
Speaker 8: She's so good. Yeah.
00:34:09
Speaker 7: I recently got tickets to Duran Jones and the indicators.
00:34:16
Speaker 8: Yeah. So that's what I'm into right now.
00:34:18
Speaker 2: That's a good Avenue. And yeah, that's like a, I feel like the, those musicians, there's a sense of timelessness in their, their sounds.
00:34:26
Speaker 8: It just makes me so happy.
00:34:27
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:34:29
Speaker 6: Yeah.
00:34:29
Speaker 2: Brittany Howard's great. Do you listen to Alabama shakes?
00:34:32
Speaker 7: No.
00:34:32
Speaker 2: Okay. So that's Brittany. Yeah. That's Brittany Howard's band. That's what I don't think they're no, I don't think they're active anymore, but yeah, they're, they have a record called sound and color that I think you would really like that has some of my favorite songs of all time on that record that came out, I think in 2015. Um, But yeah, that's a really good record. And she's, so she was the lead singer and songwriter of Alabama shakes. And so her record Jamie was the, something she did as a solo artist, but she did. Yeah. She did sound and color and there's a couple other albums too, but yeah. Super dope.
00:35:06
Speaker 8: Check it out.
00:35:10
Speaker 4: That was so sweet. I love, I love when people recommend albums to me, like songs are cool, but albums are so fucking important, man. I love listening to an album start to finish. Um, that's kind of where my obsessive trait in music really is. I, uh, that's how I listened to an artist or a song, you know, I'll go through the whole album. Once I like a song, it's, um, I don't know. It's weird, but I love that. Thank you for sharing that with us, man. That was cool. I was very impressed.
00:35:37
Speaker 2: No problem, man. I feel the same way. Albums are, albums are, I mean, that's how I personally, that's how I've always seen music is the album. And I think, it's changing and I'm not going to be like, like, I'm not going to gripe about it because it's just changing and you got to be adaptable. And even the album itself, that's a technological moment in the history of music. You know, music wasn't made to make albums. That was just what was, that's what the technology required at the time with records and everything. So it's not, it's not like that's the end all be all of music. But I think that the idea of a concept and a project is really, that's something that I really admire in every, piece of music that I've listened to and that I make myself is I love the project. I love the, what's the thing, what's the theme of it and what's the story. And yeah, I think albums are a great conduit for that. And yeah, I love it. And I think, yeah, judging, I mean, I wouldn't, I don't, it's weird. It's like, you don't want to judge somebody off of their ability to make a project, but there are some artists that are, that's their skillset. It's like their very unique skillset of creating something that is cohesive and is challenging and all these different things. And yeah, I love albums. Albums are great.
00:36:53
Speaker 4: Yeah. Me too. It's how I consume music. But speaking of albums, man, and we probably should get on some topics, you know, um, um, So you made the album for Reservation Dogs. You made the soundtrack as it is, right? That's what it's called?
00:37:21
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:37:22
Speaker 4: What was that like, man? How did you get involved with that? I mean, I read your diary thing and it said that you were involved with that and another TV show as a whatever producer, assistant producer, I think it was.
00:37:31
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:37:35
Speaker 4: I mean, how? What's going on?
00:37:38
Speaker 2: Oh, I just got a... I don't know. I have a lust for life. I just like getting involved with stuff. And it's super... fun to me. And I'm really grateful. I have some of the best idols, you know, just people I look up to. And I'm still very impressionable in that regard of seeing, you know, I'm stupid enough to believe I can do it too. And I think that's the best thing. It's just like, you just got to believe in it. But anyway, sorry, I'm getting, I'm getting.
00:38:03
Speaker 4: No, go down that road.
00:38:05
Speaker 2: Anyway, it's okay.
00:38:05
Speaker 4: This is a safe place.
00:38:07
Speaker 9: We'll cry together. I, I started making music when I was 15, 16 and, And so I, yeah, I just started, I think I was making music and then I started producing music when I was in like 18.
00:38:23
Speaker 2: And that was the year I went to college too. And so I was going to USC and also really starting to like seriously make music. And so those were constantly battling against one another, going to school and making music. But also too, I mean, you're in survival mode, you know? Like I feel like when you come from where we come from and the history that we have and everything, and I don't think it's, I don't, you know, talking like, oh, work, work, work 24 seven. I don't think that's healthy. I just mean more so in terms of like being, you know, inquisitive and being passionate and stuff, I feel like is something that is just in our biology. And it's also from, you know, surviving because, you know, just being curious and being innovative and everything. So I feel like that's what kind of, it fuels me to do all this different types of stuff. But in terms of music, yeah, I was just kept making it with no real understanding of what I was going to do and how I was going to do it, but I love making it. And the happiest moments of my life have been when I'm creating. And so I just kept chasing that. And yeah, I was in LA. I was at school. I was almost dropping out of school because I was doing okay, but I just didn't want to be there. And I had to take out a fat loan. And I was so just de-incentivized and all I wanted to do was make music. And so it's hard to go to class and be in a city you've never been in and having a hard time connecting with people. It was, yeah, it was just a recipe for just kind of disassociation. And so luckily music was there and luckily I, you know, I got into the film school when I applied cause I was undecided. And so that all kind of bred me to lean towards film. And I, um, I think my junior year I started, I first worked on a film, a short film to score it. And it was this, my friend Alex, he's, he, he's from Brooklyn and he's half black, half Chinese. And so he made a movie, he made a short film for school that was kind of exploring that dual identity. And it was, it was kind of in, it was satirizing. Well, black exploitation is basically, you know, it's satirizing a lot of things anyway, but like, It was, um, it was a, it was kind of pastiche of blaxploitation films. And so he asked if I wanted to score it and I was like, sure. And so I was making a lot of this like seventies, like funk, like work around.
00:40:55
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:40:56
Speaker 2: So that was really cool. That was my first kind of foray into. Into scoring. And it was great too. Cause you know, I think from a, from a composing standpoint, you know, I don't play any instruments. I play piano very averagely. I can squeak by. and I'm learning guitar, but I don't know how to play anything really. I don't know how to play drums or anything like that. And so with the scoring, it was cool because I could bring in other people and say, okay, I'm thinking of this. Cause I always have the, the direction. I just don't have the, you know, skill and the, the, the tangible efforts to make it myself. So that's when I bring in friends and stuff and it's great too. You get to hire people. It's fun. So I got to, um, make a score for that, which was like, you know, heavily funk themed and everything. And it was cool. And, you know, it was just for school and I didn't really think much of it. And then I was, it was, it was so funny how everything devolved into like the pandemic. Cause we all like, remember the first couple months of like 2020 and you're like, all right, cool. Like aesthetically pleasing year, 2020 is going to be great. It's going to be so dope. And it was for me, like, cause I was graduating school. And then, um, yeah, I got my friend Willie who's he's from out in Pine Ridge and he's, um, he's a good friend of mine. I've known him for a couple of years and he, he just texted me on some kind of like movie shit. He said, do you want to score a feature length film? And I was like, yeah. And so he set me up with some filmmakers named Gina and Riley, and they were making a film out in Pine Ridge. Basically, it was very grassroots and it was very written by folks out there and starring folks out there and everything. So it was a really cool film. Basically, I got involved with that. Then through that, I think Sterling had known of me and I think I'd known of him too. We just never really met at all. We never had time to– just like chop it up or anything, but we, you know how Indian country is, you know, everybody. So we always like had run on or run over in terms of friend groups and stuff. And so that was my first like real scoring gig, I guess. And so we were working up until the pandemic. And then I went back to South Dakota to live with my parents for like four ish months. And then, um, I got, I think it was like October, November and, Gina and I were talking, we were actually on set. We're in Bakersfield, California, which is out of, it's nowhere. It's just out of, it's just nowhere. And it looks like the res in this great. So we were shooting there because it looks like the res and we were sitting there and she's like, Oh, did, um, did Sterling reach out to you yet? And I was like, no. And he's like, Oh, he wants you to like do res dogs. And I was like, Oh, cool. I didn't, I didn't really like, no. And I was like, okay, no, that's sick. And so, but you know, in Hollywood, you don't hold your breath.
00:44:00
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:44:01
Speaker 2: It's a little, a little word of wisdom. A little Wakusape, a little Lakota wisdom there. No, I love that.
00:44:06
Speaker 4: Real sacred.
00:44:07
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And so I heard that and I was like, okay, cool.
00:44:15
Speaker 4: If it happens, it happens.
00:44:16
Speaker 2: That's exciting. And so I was waiting some months and then we finally got in touch and yeah, I mean, we just spoke and it was like instantly, I mean, you, you know him, you know me, it's like, we just connected instantly.
00:44:27
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:44:27
Speaker 2: And yeah, In that same timeframe, so when I got offered the movie, I also got offered to be an assistant producer for this upcoming Amazon series called Outer Range. And so I kind of got both of those jobs at the same time. And it's funny, bro. It's like I always thought I would do that. I always thought I would be in music and film. Like that's something I've manifested. I used to– I have a song called Pesto off of Scatterbrain. It's like the.
00:44:56
Speaker 4: I've definitely heard it, but I don't remember it. I'll be honest.
00:44:58
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's okay. It's okay. It was, uh, I have a line that's like, um, I traded close friends for a fan base. That's just how it go hard for native American Gambino. So I was referencing like childish Gambino cause I respect how he operates on multiple words or worlds. And so like, that was something I wanted to manifest for myself. And so I was really stoked when it was happening. Then the pandemic hit and everything changed. But yeah, I was able to work last year, 2021 on the Amazon show and also do Rez Dogs, which is very hard to do, but it was done. And yeah, so that's kind of how I got involved with all that stuff. And Sterling and I just had a conversation and he's like, is this something you're interested in? I'm like, yeah, definitely. And he's like, I can't guarantee it. I got to talk with the FX people, but just wanted to see if you're interested. I was like, yeah, bro, count me in. And so it was cool. Like I think in a lot of ways I needed the pandemic because I needed to like really incubate and work and figure out how I can get better at this type of stuff because yeah, it was, um, I really wanted to be self sustainable and, you know, stand on my two feet when it comes to making music and everything. And so, yeah. And then everything worked out and it was cool. And, it's been such an amazing experience to be a part of a show like that. And no, none of us knew what was going to happen when it came out. And it was funny as we got closer to releasing it, I feel like we were all kind of like, and we knew it was good, but we didn't know it was going to be what it is now. And I knew, I knew it was real when I saw the memes and, Like I was like, all right, we're hitting, this is hitting a chord in Indian country and in the larger frame, you know, it's bro, they're, they're writing articles about us in India about res dog. It's just interesting. You know, it's just so it's, um, that's yeah.
00:46:52
Speaker 4: Badass dude. I didn't know that. That's cool.
00:46:55
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was literally, someone tagged me on Twitter and it was a whole article written in this news station in India and they were, yeah, it was cool.
00:47:04
Speaker 4: That is, that's so cool. That's super cool, man. I was talking to my last episode. Um, it hasn't released yet. It was with, um, McGizzy.
00:47:12
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Yeah.
00:47:13
Speaker 7: Yeah.
00:47:14
Speaker 4: He, uh, he was telling me that one of the best things for him was seeing like the costumes when like Halloween rolled around and you got the little kids dressing up as like the different reservation dogs and stuff.
00:47:24
Speaker 2: That's crazy, man.
00:47:25
Speaker 5: Oh man.
00:47:27
Speaker 4: I can't even imagine that. That's so cool. Like that. You guys made that, you know, that.
00:47:32
Speaker 2: Yeah. Fuck.
00:47:34
Speaker 4: It's cool.
00:47:36
Speaker 1: It is cool.
00:47:36
Speaker 2: It's really, it's really, it's really fun. And I'm just grateful that there's something that's striking like that from a cultural standpoint.
00:47:44
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:47:45
Speaker 2: Because yeah, it's just, it's really cool. And like, I think I, the, you know, it was very much a universal alignment in terms of like, I don't know, it's just great. And like, I, and the show, it's not a by-product of what people expect out of native entertainment and native media. And it's cool, bro. Cause like, I don't know, growing up, I was like seeing music and I was like, I don't like, this isn't, I don't relate to this. Like this is not, and it's because it was through a lens of something that wasn't necessarily us and representation that wasn't necessarily us. So that was always the guiding principle for my own music. And so to, to get to a point where it's kind of meshing with this other force that's coming and the fact that I could contribute to it in any way, I was super stoked and, Yeah. It's great. I mean, I love being a part of it and yeah.
00:48:37
Speaker 4: It's fun. Dude, reservation dogs is special. It really is, man. I was, I just, I can't say it enough because it's like, like, I don't know. It started this, uh, this thing that it's not to say that people weren't creative before, but it started this thing to let people know that it's okay to expect to be big, to expect to be successful, you know? Cause before that, like, you know, there wasn't recent examples of big native projects having that kind of success. But then in one year we got two of them, you know, like the Rutherford Falls and Reservation Dogs is crazy. It's so crazy, man. It's amazing. It's the best. It's the best thing.
00:49:13
Speaker 2: It is. I mean, it's like the, I just think the, I want to say it's, it's almost the, the luxury of trust in terms of how these different, you know, companies and these different kinds of things that were gatekeeping for a long time are trusting native and indigenous voices. And it takes something like, like a Rutherford falls or like a res dogs to kind of be the, I don't know, to be the impetus to get things to be started. And yeah, it's super, it's, it's super dope and I love it. And yeah, it's, it's really, it's a great thing. It's a great, great thing. I'm literally, my laptop is literally balanced on this book, this like moonlight script. It's the whole script of moonlight and it's Barry Jenkins, you know, directed that and he's a big fan of res dogs and it's crazy. It's like, dude, I literally, it's like, he's, he geeks out. He loves, um, Oh my God. If I'm blanking on her name right now. Um, Paulina, I know her really well.
00:50:17
Speaker 4: Willie Jack.
00:50:18
Speaker 2: Willie Jack.
00:50:19
Speaker 7: Yeah. Yeah.
00:50:19
Speaker 2: Willie Jack. He's like such a fangirl of Willie Jack and it's so, yeah, it's dope. I don't know. It's cool. Yeah.
00:50:26
Speaker 4: I mean, that's something crazy to me is, uh, how you guys have, uh, people who fangirl over the show, you know, it's just, It's a whole nother level, man. It's really cool to see. It's really cool to be able to watch because it's like you said, man, there's just, or like we've been saying, you know, there's just not a, those examples haven't been around really. And there hasn't been the chance to really, uh, at least not in a big mainstream way like this. Like, to be honest, I just didn't know what was going on on other reservations. I didn't know other people were doing cool shit until I started doing the show, you know, but now reservation dogs really, uh, blew that open. You know what I mean? Like now people are exploring that more than ever. People are being more vocal about their projects more than ever. People, you know, that's like the example that I see from you guys is that people know it's possible. It's okay to be like a successful Indian, you know, it's awesome.
00:51:20
Speaker 2: True. Yeah. It's, it's kind of a redefinition of the, the conventions of Hollywood and even, you know, just filmmaking in general. Like I think the way that Sterling has like implemented this thing of doing it yourself is really cool. And that's something I've always believed in too. That's why I do it all myself, like shit. Like it's just why it's like that. Cause it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, I don't know. It's a way to express yourself and also to honor those different components that you grew up on and that you hold true to yourself. And so I think the employment of, you know, mostly, native and indigenous creators for the show is a huge thing. Like it's so cool. Cause a lot of the, you know, sometimes we'll be on screen, but it's about the people behind the scenes a lot of the time, you know, and, and getting a lot of these different artists together.
00:52:10
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:52:10
Speaker 2: It's super monumental. I feel.
00:52:12
Speaker 4: Yeah. It's really cool, man. And that's something that I do really admire about Sterling is how much like just work he's willing to put in. And I'm not talking about from the standpoint of, like you said, it's not, healthy to work all the time, but that dude's always working. He's always got the gears turning, you know, he's just always doing something. It's cool. And it shows, man, that show is amazing. And yeah. What was it like scoring something that like, I mean, like you, like you said, you didn't know that it was going to be big, but once you, once you knew that who was involved and once you got the, okay. And you realized what it was about was, you know, how was that contrasted against the smaller projects that you've scored before?
00:52:54
Speaker 2: It felt great. I mean, I felt like I was in the gym, like working for this personally. And cause it's great. Like all of the avenues that I love, it was literally meshing. I love rapping. I fucking love, can I, I can swear, right?
00:53:11
Speaker 4: Yeah. Fuck it up.
00:53:12
Speaker 2: Okay. I fucking love to rap so much. Like I love it. And so to get the chance to do that was so, I was so stoked. You can hear me smiling right now. If I know it's audio, but I love rapping so much. And so to get, to be able, like to be able to contribute to a score, which I feel like when you hear score, you think of embellished strings and staccato and, and a flute. And, but bro, I'm just rapping my ass off. And so I was, it was just so, I'm just so fortunate. And so it was really cool. Like the, literally the assignment was like, right. Of, a rap song and produce a rap song. And I've been doing that since I'm 14 years old. So it was literally, you know, it was just divine timing. Yeah. And so it was really cool. So it was dope. I mean, and too, aside from rapping, I love the scoring stuff. I love the strings. That stuff is really beautiful. I think there's a really interesting cultural element of the way the bass frequencies hit your chest and how a drum hits your chest and You know, the deep tones of a bass and how it's, you know, corollary to a powwow drum and stuff. I feel like it's very similar. And so, yeah, I love that type of stuff too. So it was great. I mean, it was really fun. And I think. it was challenging too. There were certain things that I was, it was brought out of me having to do. And I really am honored for the collaborators that I had. My friend DA was super dope. He played, I wrote all the guitar and he's playing it on throughout the whole season. And he would give me great feedback on stuff. And just from a musical standpoint and a technical standpoint, I was really fortunate to have him around. He was living with me when I was in New Mexico for a little bit. And yeah, Yeah. So it was great though. It was really fun. And it, it got me, it was kind of, it was validation from just a personal standpoint of saying, Oh, this is, this is one of the reasons why I was doing this for so long with no direction and no affirmation. And I mean, being an artist is hard. I mean, we all know that it's hard, dude. It's hard. It's hard, especially a native artist, like talking about what we talk about and everything. It's, it can be really, um, yeah, it can be, I don't know. You can be thirsty for these things of affirmation. So the show was, was really nice. And also being trusted. Like I was, you know, 22 at the time of being considered and now I'm 24, but like I was a baby and they were thinking of me and I was really gratified or that was really gratifying, but yeah, it was cool. I think like Sterling, he knows I spoke that language of being, um, you know critical and being funny and being intentional with your art and things and so that was that was cool but yeah it was great i mean overall great times.
00:56:08
Speaker 4: Yeah that is something i very much admire about like a bunch of your work actually is how intentional you are with all your shit like my favorite song of yours is a blossom um and it's just because i don't know man i feel like more people just need to be real like that and be able to tell their homies like you know so like I'm proud of you. You know, I think we need to be more okay with that kind of stuff. And that's the way I pictured it anyway, you know, is like telling just, you know, I don't know. People can interpret it how they want, but that's the way I wanted to interpret it is like, it's okay. It's good. I'm proud of you. And I'm glad that you're growing. And, you know, that kind of shit is just so important. And I'm glad that you're so direct and intentional with your language and make sure that people know it's okay to talk like that. You know, it's cool, man. I think a lot of people are really embarrassed to be open like that.
00:56:56
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:56:57
Speaker 2: Thank you. I appreciate you saying that. And yeah, I think it's the privilege of vulnerability is really, really important and really expansive when you let it take over your art. And I think, yeah, I don't know, man. It's important to me. And it's funny. I know something is real in my life when I'm able to write about it, whether that be love, romance, grief, anger, excitement. It's only really... affecting me when it's affecting my writing. And so, and yeah, it's just, I mean, I don't know. It's never been a second question for me in terms of writing like that. Like I've always, and sometimes it's really lame. It's sad. It's embarrassing.
00:57:38
Speaker 4: It's, I feel that way all the time on the show, bro. I feel like sometimes I'm like, I can't believe I said that shit. Like that's so corny, you know, or that's, that's lame. Like, what am I doing? And, but then at the same time, you know, I, I don't know. It's like, I just, I want to be, I want to be true and I want to make real shit so that other people who, cause I'm like you, man, I think I can do it. You know, I think I can make it. I think like, I, you know, I think people are going to listen to this someday. So, um, I want people to feel like it's okay to be vulnerable too. You know, I want people to know that like, it's just, that's human. That's the way it is. And so I'm on the same wavelength almost to the T with you, man. I just like, I think, you know, I just love that shit. It's like, like you're, being that way, being, you know, how you said, how you said, it's like some of it's like sad and embarrassing. It's like emboldening me to be sad and embarrassing. And it's okay to be that man. Like, that's good. That's part of, that's part of you. And it's really special that you share that.
00:58:42
Speaker 2: Thank you, man. Yeah. I mean, self-acceptance. Definitely. That's something I've been working through from a new kind of with newer stuff. It's like I've experienced, I mean, we all have so much loss in the past couple of years.
00:58:53
Speaker 8: Yeah.
00:58:54
Speaker 2: And specifically, I've lost like a lot of really close people in my life. And it's been like a super meditative time for me in terms of figuring out what it is. What is it? What is my relationship to loss? What's my relationship to music now? And how has it changed? How is it similar? And yeah, it's, it's, it's hard. It's not fun. It's like super, it can be heavy sometimes and it can be sad, but it's also like, that's the humanity of it. And that's what we talked about at the top of it, which was like, you got to explore that type of stuff and it's important. And yeah, it's been a really it's been a new chapter I think in my artistry to, to figure out what my relationship to music is now and how has it changed and what can I explore and what do I feel comfortable doing? And yeah, it's, it's like a super, it's, it's all, it's all about vulnerability. It's all about feeling like you can be expanding on those emotions and things. And yeah, it's wild.
00:59:54
Speaker 1: Yeah.
01:00:08
Speaker 4: That's something I think about a lot is like how my relationships are affected by these different things and about my inability to be vulnerable or my, you know, just things like that. And, um, because that's something that's important to me too, is making sure that I You know, I want to foster these relationships and I want to make sure that people are, you know, are accepting and welcoming, but I also don't want to like expose myself to be not accepted, you know? So it's a really, it's a really weird thing for me to combat too. Cause I, I'm dealing with the same shit, man. I want to be the best version of me. And I just don't know what that is. Like not even a little bit. And I'm, you know, we're exploring, we're trying, but it's hard, man. And that's why I like that song so much because it's, you know, that's, that's the essence of it. At least like, like I said, that's the way for me that I took it is like, it's okay to be, to grow and to be different and to like be who you want to be. And it's just cool, man. Yeah. I'm getting.
01:01:14
Speaker 7: For a while.
01:01:15
Speaker 8: I recently lost my brother last week, but I was kind of.
01:01:22
Speaker 2: Mad.
01:01:23
Speaker 8: I didn't want to listen to music. But that's what we had, you know?
01:01:34
Speaker 7: And I.
01:01:37
Speaker 8: Think it's really great that you're very passionate in sharing your talent with people because they thrive on it. They love music so much. And it's great. I think it's great to have what you have and to be passionate about it. So I think it's great what you're doing because I know somebody's listening and people appreciate that. And people appreciate that you're native. I think it goes a long way.
01:02:07
Speaker 2: Thank you for saying that. And yeah, that means a lot. I'm so sorry to hear about that too. That's yeah, it's heavy. And yeah, thank you. That means a lot to hear. And yeah, It's crazy. I think a lot about how much grief has informed a lot of my like artistry and in a lot of ways, I mean, it's just the, I mean, it's the one thing you have, you know, in those times. And I think too, it's such a beautiful, like, it's funny. So I lost my dad at the, like in September, 2020 and, And, you know, sudden it was, it was really, it changed my whole life as it was, does for everybody. And like it, I moved back, I was in LA working and I, you know, when it happened, I instantly went back to South Dakota and we had the funeral and it was like a really intense thing. And it, it was, it became this thing of like, once I was able to at least function, like literally, you know, feed myself and stuff and like operate a little bit, it was going back to music and seeing where I was. And I'll never forget this. I remember the first time, this was probably a month and a half after he passed. And like I said, you know, music is always a litmus test. How do I, where am I at? Really? It's reflective in the music. And I remember I was like producing something and then I just kind of naturally started talking about my dad. And that was the first time I touched the topic. And, you know, for me, it's wild, too, because it's like you can verbalize a loss. You can say I've lost somebody. You can attend services for somebody. You can pray and you can attend ceremonies and speak about it with, you know, medicine people. But for me, it's like it's I guess it'd be similar to just like painting a portrait of my dad or anything like that. Like, I don't know. It was it was like that's what it was to me. It was like seeing him again. And so when I wrote those lyrics, I really understood how much grieving I needed to do. And it was in every literal sense, I was frozen. I couldn't move. I couldn't do anything. It was complete. It just enraptured everything. And so it was like an emergency. I had to call my sisters and I was just bawling. I didn't realize how much I had not processed what was going on. And since then, I mean, that's been, it's been like a year and a half and I'm still edging away at that. Like, it's still a thing that every time I talk about it and I'm getting there, like if you go on my Instagram, there's like one freestyle I did where I talk about him, but like, even so now it's still a thing of like understanding how I can kind of heal through music and also be able to I don't know to compartmentalize those emotions and to understand what it is to live with grief. Cause I don't think you ever get past grief. You, you just live with it. And it's, it's a new part of you. And similar to what we talked about earlier, it's that self-acceptance. It's like, this is now a part of me. And I think also too, like when you, for me, like that was something my dad was really proud of me for was music. And so to do it in his like memory and it's like a continuation of that, you know, And I think, I think we're all just, you know, pieces of, you know, pieces of people that made us and we're just pieces of the lessons that we've learned from people that we love. And so for music, yeah. I mean, that was, that's been so informative and like, so now even, yeah, it's just crazy. It's like, it's still a thing that I'm working through. And a lot of my new stuff is exploring that.
01:06:05
Speaker 8: And yeah.
01:06:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's, it's, it's really, really heavy, but it's also really beautiful. Like there's been parts of my life where I've been numb. I didn't feel anything. And so I'm grateful for the moments that I feel. Cause that's, it's bringing me a sense of humanity and bringing me closer to folks. You know, we can relate to one another based off of that stuff. So yeah.
01:06:29
Speaker 4: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that, man. And yeah, no, I mean, I lost my sister too, you know, a few years ago and it's, it, you know, you're right. Grief never, it never stops, bro. It just sucks forever. Um, but I think, you know, the way I think about it a lot of times is like, you have these tools that you use to work through your life, you know, and for you, that's music, man. And that's, that's really cool for me. It's been the show. Um, the only constant over the last three years for me at this point has been Cheyenne and the show, you know? Um, and, uh, you know, I've gone through jobs. I've, uh, done the cancer thing that we've done the pandemic thing. You know, it's just, It's been a lot. So, you know, it's just one of those, you just keep working at it, you know? It gives you purpose, gives you reason. And I love that about it, man. I love that about, like, your music, too, because you can hear it, for sure. For sure, man. It's really special.
01:07:27
Speaker 2: It's cool.
01:07:27
Speaker 4: Thank you.
01:07:28
Speaker 2: I appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah, it's a... It is. It's a crazy thing, like, loss, and it's just so... grappling with it is, is so different than anything else you've experienced, you know? And like, I feel like with native, like natives grow up in funerals, you know, it's like, that's just a part of who we are and it never gets easier, but it's also, yeah. Like you said, it's the tools that you can find and the community that you can build. And it's, yeah, it's super, it renders really, really poignant and really beautiful things. And yeah, that's why we all have the image of like who we are and the people that raised us and stuff and how much love we have. Cause we, you know what they've been through. Like you just know it's unspoken and yeah, it's, it's crazy. I mean, so wild.
01:08:21
Speaker 4: I mean, we talk about funerals a lot on the show, weirdly enough, or I do anyway. Cheyenne and I were kind of laughing before the show. Cause we were talking about all the things that I talk about a lot, but funerals is actually one of them. And that's because like, indian funerals like they're sad for sure don't get me wrong you know but like it's like you said they're different though like there's like a sense of community that comes out there there's like people you ain't seen in forever you know after the burial at late at night you know you got the uncles joking around the fire.
01:08:50
Speaker 2: Or you know shying.
01:08:52
Speaker 4: Mad at me because i'm trying to leave early or yeah i mean there's a lot of there's a lot of pieces there it's uh it's crazy it's such a different kind of thing.
01:09:02
Speaker 2: It is it's yeah i mean it's the food it's the yeah it's the community yeah no like i one of my you know something that really like informed the rest of my life was And it's fucking sad. Like I say this, but it's also just what it is. Like that's just what it is. Like it is what it is. And when I was 10, I lost my uncle and my grandpa in the same week. And I lost my grandpa on my birthday, on my 10th birthday. And so, and he passed, he passed on a full moon, October 26th, 2007. And my dad passed on September 1st, 2020, also on a full moon. So the full moon is like, it brings a lot to me. and about a lot to my family. And so, but that said, I mean, yeah, it was hard. It was the hardest week of my life, one of them. And, but yet it was honestly one of the most fun because like we were kicking it. I was not in school. We were with all the cousins were on the res and we were all hanging out and stuff. And yeah, that's what it is. Like a lot of the community is unfortunately in those situations, but like you said, it's what you make of it. And it's like finding it, there's this kind of really innate support and love that we have for one another in those times and it comes by way of just getting a bowl of soup getting some fry bread um yeah ripping someone like teasing someone or going out for going out for a cig with everybody and it's like yeah i mean those things are so foundational and it's like it's because i think loss and grief and like those are in the it's been, it's been such a thing. And two, you know, this is also from a cultural standpoint. I think like, it's not, it's so linear and it's such a, it's such a circular motion in terms of life and like, like ho chokas and medicine wheels and everything. It's like, it's not over after someone is no longer there with you physically. And that's something I've experienced firsthand. And I can't say that for everybody, but with me, with my dad, it's, and other people I've lost too, like, It's funny. Like, it's just, it, they don't, it's not over your relationship with those who you've lost is not over. It's if it just continues in a different way. And like, even with, so that song blossom, like I wrote that basically about one of my, he was my best friend and he, he took his own life when I was, when.
01:11:30
Speaker 4: We were 18.
01:11:32
Speaker 2: And thank you. And like the whole second half of that song is talking about the last time I was ever Like, you know, one of the last times we interacted. And then even in part-time indie in my first album, the last song, Grapefruit, it's like me just exploring that stuff. And I realized in those moments of losing him and losing, recently losing my cousin and losing, you know, my uncles and my dad, it's like they invested in my art and they invested in my life and I invested in theirs. And therefore, when you continue your life after you lose people, it's an extension of the people who helped you get to where you are, you know? And I think that's just a really impactful thing that I've had to internalize. And that keeps you going too. It's like, you're living for more people than you think. And that's such a beautiful thing. It's just like, you're a continuation of them and all the lessons that you learn along the way, when you instill those in your life, that's an extension of them. And, you know, the way I look physically, I look like my dad and it's like, that's an extension. And the way I tease people and it's just, yeah, it's all, it's all him. It's all the gifts that I've been bestowed. And so, yeah, it's just a super, it's heavy and it's hard, but it's also, those things are really beautiful to me and to have those things in the first place or that it's funny too.
01:12:55
Speaker 1: Right.
01:12:55
Speaker 2: When I lost my dad, like I was on the red eye back to South Dakota and I was at a loss, obviously. And then I realized, wait, how many of the closest people in my life did not have dads growing up? And it's a lot of them. And I'm like, man, I had one, you know, for 22 years of my life. And it was a dynamic relationship. It was complex, but it was loving at the end of the day. And like, I really cared for him and he cared for me, you know, the world to him was his children. And so I was, you know, super just gratified and like, just, I don't know, it's tough and it's still grief. It's still hard, but it's those little things, those little nuggets keep me going, you know?
01:13:34
Speaker 4: No, man, but there's beauty in grief. Like you said, there's like, special moments that come to you when you're alone when you think about those people or when something happens when you get reminded about those people that aren't possible without that grief you know and i'm not saying that that replaces that person or that it comes close to that but you know there is some there is some i guess consolation prize for it all right there is some growth and some beauty that you find there in those in those hard moments when you're alone something that i've uh said before on the show is you know indians are really good at laughing when it's hard to laugh you know Um, like at a funeral or something, right. It's, uh, we always just make the best of it. And, you know, it's no, that's no exception with what you're describing about that growth and that, that, uh, that love for your craft and for yourself that you're able to find out of that moment. You know, those are special moments that, like you said, that you're, you know, in a weird way that your dad gave you, right. That my sister's given me because it's happened to me too, man. you know, weird shit where I just consider these weird things. And it just, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of gifts that are still coming to us from these people.
01:14:45
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Yeah, definitely. And like, yeah, it's just never been, it's never been the end when people pass away and it's just, it just continues. And like, there's something that I've heard a lot in Lakota culture and I'm sure a lot of other tribes can relate or it's like, um, and I'm sure cultures worldwide, it's like when babies before they're, you know, they start in the spirit world and the, when they're, you know, passed down from a physical standpoint and come into earth, but right before then they're every ancestor holds them and whispers things to them and tells them things about the, you know, family and wisdom and culture and everything and knowledge. And so like with that in mind, it's like, it's never over. It's like, it's just an extension of, something else and it's non-physical anymore and and you say those things and it's fucking hard to internalize it's very hard to actually actualize those feelings but i i believe in it i believe in it wholeheartedly it's like these people still are with us and yeah and natives yeah it's a byproduct of that is being very funny and being very humorous and being able to laugh and even that too anyone we've i'm sure every everyone that we've lost was probably like hilarious or like knew how to bust it and like my dad included. So it's like continuing that stuff and even teasing things he would do and everything. It's like, yeah, that's what, that's what it is. And it's yeah. Crazy.
01:16:18
Speaker 4: Yeah, it really is, man.
01:16:20
Speaker 8: Wow.
01:16:20
Speaker 4: What an, what an episode, man.
01:16:23
Speaker 2: I know.
01:16:23
Speaker 4: Oh, you know, thanks for sharing those stories, man. These are, these are good. And I'm, I'm glad because I, you know, Your dad sounds cool, man. I'm glad that I got to hear about him. So that's cool. But, um, also, man, it's just, uh, it's really cool to hear these things, especially so close to like a, uh, you know, a personal tragedy just because, um, I don't know. It's just nice to, to hear about other people and, uh, their experiences and how they've grown from it. It's very hopeful. It's very, uh, I don't know if that's the right word, but it's very better than what we were feeling or what I was feeling before this.
01:17:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, that's really good to hear. And I think that's something that helped me a lot of the way, which was, yeah, just kind of being able to commiserate with folks who have felt something similar to it. And like, I think it's also like when you're grieving, I mean, grieving is essentially like, I feel like if you treat it as, you know, you might exercise, you might be traveling, you might be working and you're grieving like that's, it's, it's something that is coaxing everything, you know, it's, it's something that is above it all. It's just the grief. It's so it's, it's weird. It's like, it's something that like, you know, edges itself into a lot of your life. And so I think embracing it. Yeah. It's embracing it. My friend Riley, she was interviewed recently for a film that she's in. It's called Zola. And I was watching, it's funny, like we're friends, but I was just watching her interviews. I was like, that's kind of cool. And so I was watching one of her interviews. I forget who it was with, but she was talking about her brother who had recently passed in July of 2020. And so it's crazy. Like I look at the texts from that time. It was literally me texting her a couple of days after her brother passed. I'm so sorry to hear about your loss. My family and I are praying for you, sending you love. And then the next text was when my dad passed and her sending something similar. And I looked at the texts and even at the time, it was like a day after my dad passed, but it's like, damn, these texts are wild. Like these are the texts we've sent with each other and it's crazy. So we've been able to talk about that too, just on a, you know, one-on-one basis with grief. But I was watching one of her interviews and they were talking and the interview had asked about her brother who had passed away. Yeah. And she... was like i'm fine talking about him like i'm fine talking about my brother because that you need that's the way we can process grief you know it's something and she said something really smart and like just beautiful about grief it's like a lot of people i feel like especially in western culture it's something that you put away you know, it's, I lost somebody, we're going to have the services and then put it away. And I think with, with native culture and a lot of just people that I know, I guess it's like, it's okay to talk about it and keep it at the forefront. You know, it's like, okay to, to, to ruminate on grief and loss and everything. And yeah. Yeah.
01:19:30
Speaker 4: So, I mean, we all process shit different at all. It's all different speeds. You know, I worked in some mental health stuff for, a little bit. And, you know, I, that was one of the most weird things to me is when we tried to rush people through this kind of stuff, because it's like, it's nonlinear, you know? Um, like for when my sister passed, uh, it was very strange. Cause I got the call at like three in the morning that she had an accident and, you know, they, so it was very crazy. Cause like the next thing I remember is calling my mom and telling her, Because my mom was out of state. So I had to work to get a hold of her. And, you know, that really sucked. It was the worst. I'm sorry. I forgot. Damn it. Dude, I do this when I get emotional on the show. I forget where I'm going because I'm trying to fight it off. I'm sorry, man. I'm trying to. That's a very hard story.
01:20:29
Speaker 8: He was like, I'm going to cry on this.
01:20:32
Speaker 4: Fuck you.
01:20:36
Speaker 5: Yeah.
01:20:37
Speaker 4: Um, no, I was like, I was talking about it when I was listening to you talk, man. And, uh, I was like, you were sick. I can't remember even what you were saying, but it was something like, like I said, super vulnerable and super open and super like on the other show on the native max thing. And, um, I was like, man, we're the same kind of person, you know, like we're like, I'm going to cry because he's going to say something to me. That's going to make me cry and not in a bad way, but because I'm just an emotional, like goon like that, you know? So, and it almost came to fruition right there. I'm sorry.
01:21:09
Speaker 2: You're good, man.
01:21:11
Speaker 1: Yeah.
01:21:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know.
01:21:14
Speaker 4: Anyway, man, I don't know, man. It's a weird place to leave off, but I also feel like with all the conversation we've had about it, it's not a bad place to leave off, you know? I don't want to take up more of your evening, so I'm trying to wrap up here, but it's a weird place. But thank you for bringing us to this place and exploring with us. I think it's important for us right now.
01:21:37
Speaker 7: Yeah, I really appreciated everything that you said, and I think it's something that I needed to hear.
01:21:43
Speaker 2: Is Cheyenne still on?
01:21:46
Speaker 4: It says offline. I'm going to have to figure it out.
01:21:49
Speaker 1: I know.
01:21:49
Speaker 4: I noticed that earlier, too.
01:21:51
Speaker 2: Okay.
01:21:53
Speaker 4: I don't know what's going to happen. We'll figure it out. I've never had that problem. But no, as Cheyenne was saying, yeah, thank you. That's something that, like she said, she needed to hear. That's important. And for sure, something that I needed to hear, because like you said, that grief isn't, I've been feeling the grief for my sister for the past week too, because of what happened with Cheyenne, right? So I've been in a weird spot too. And it's just cool to, to have someone that, I don't know, has such a good mental age, I guess, you know, you don't, you're definitely like, it just seems like you're much more mentally healthy than I am right now. And I appreciate you, you know, holding our hand through this conversation is very cool. Thank you.
01:22:39
Speaker 2: No problem, man. That's what, yeah, that's what we're here for. And I think, yeah. And I mean, it's, it's not, you know, it's something that I still work through a lot and it's still, it's something. Yeah. It's funny. Like whenever my dreams start to relay images of my dad, that's I've like, okay, there's some grieving that I need to encounter, you know? Yeah. And so, and I think you, like you said too, it's very nonlinear and it's very, it's strange and it's so imposing sometimes. And it's just, yeah, it's crazy. But I think like, you know, it's similar to how I think with a lot of people within Indian country and it extends outside of that. It's like confronting like mental health and just talking about it is such a beautiful thing. And like something that I've been able to like starting therapy at the top of the year, that was something that really helped me get through. Cause it's funny. Like I, what I noticed too with grief is like, if it's, if it's not at least acknowledged, then it will manifest in other potentially destructive ways within your life. It's similar to, you know, what is addiction? It's not, people aren't born addicted to things. It's, they become addicted because there are things that are, they're not necessarily able to address or choosing not to, you know? And so I feel like with grief, like that was definitely something, bro. Like it was all of 2021 until I had a moment of like, whoa, I'm actually not okay. It was like me feeling like, okay, great. Like I'm doing fine. But every time I tried to write about it, I would ball. I would be a mess. And so it was like I'm not– something isn't working here. You know what I mean? And so it wasn't until I was able to like really look myself in the mirror and say like these are things like– and I think it is too. It's also being like super, super, super, super kind to yourself. Like ultimately kind to yourself. Like not overextending yourself. and understanding like what it is that happens and like being super kind and like loving to yourself. That was something that really made me just completely extrapolate what it is that I needed to, to work on was just being kind to myself. Cause it was super, yeah, it's really easy, especially with like art and, and being in a very westernized form of creating art and everything and living in a capitalist society. It's really easy to pound out stuff and being, saying you're doing good, but like, are you doing good? You know what I mean? And so I think for me, that was a thing of where I had to really have, have some self-assessment and I'm really grateful for the family and the friends that I had in that time and that I still have, you know?
01:25:30
Speaker 4: Yeah.
01:25:33
Speaker 2: Yeah. Cause you gotta, it's just really important, I think, to really assess things and yeah, be kind to yourself. Like, man, it's a, it's a journey, but it's also not one that doesn't have to be.
01:25:47
Speaker 5: Alone.
01:25:48
Speaker 2: And it's not, cause obviously us talking now, us three, we've all gone through shit. And so, yeah, it's, it's just that like community, it's that bond and that kinship and yeah, you guys are going to be okay. I think you're able to talk and it's going to be a journey, but yeah.
01:26:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, man. It's, uh, it's been a journey already, but I think so too, man. I think we're going to, I've been, um, You know, I've been thinking a lot about the, um, by the way, I remember what I was going to say about my, my mom. I was going to say that I, uh, wasn't, I couldn't grieve because I had to deal with all that. So I like put it off for like a year and it was like a really, I was a wreck like a year later. It was crazy.
01:26:27
Speaker 2: Anyway.
01:26:28
Speaker 4: Um, um, shit, man, this is an episode, man. Thank you. Um, but yeah, I, uh, I think we'll be okay to shine. You know, she's going to, it's going to suck for a while, but then we'll, we'll, we'll get there. I know we will. And I'm very, very proud of you. You've done well this week. And I know it's hard and I'm proud of you too, man. Like I, and that's like some real shit. Like it's not, it's not easy to do anything, you know, when you're in the best of places, but to do it when you're in the worst, that's even, that's even more impressive, man. So that's awesome. And I hope you keep thriving the same way, man, because we need it. We need these kind of examples. We need these people to be doing these kind of positive things so that our kids out here on the Apache Res can see that that shit's possible.
01:27:32
Speaker 3: Yeah.
01:27:33
Speaker 2: I know a couple of those kids out on the Apache Res. Well, they're adults now, but they were there at some point. That's awesome, man. Yeah. I appreciate that. That's really, that's a really kind thing of you to say. And it's yeah.
01:27:50
Speaker 4: I think I'm not trying to put that much weight on you. Cause I know that's like a lot of pressure, but like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
01:27:55
Speaker 2: I hear what you're saying. And I, I mean, that's a, it's, it's something I look in people, like I look up to people so much when they're able to do that type of stuff. Like, I feel like Andre 3000 is one of my favorite rappers and you always know where he's at, you know, musically because of his specificity and what he needs to say. And Frank Ocean is also one of my favorite artists. And recently, you know, he lost his, his younger brother in 2020. And, you know, he's been kind of absent from everything since. And he recently over the holidays in 2021, like Christmas time, he released this, radio show on his it's called Blonded Radio And it's him talking with this dude who, you know, is like a, I don't know, thermal gladiator type of dude who does like really cold conditions and stuff. I think they call him Iceman. But the whole thing, I mean, even that dude's journey is wild. I would recommend that. Honestly, it's, it's on. Yeah. I'll listen. Yeah, it's the most recent Blonded Christmas episode, but it's this guy talking about grief and it's all informed by grief. And then Frank, at the end of it, I mean, it's like a 30 minute interview sort of thing. And then at the end of it, Frank just freestyles for eight minutes long to this beautiful piano piece. And it's him talking inherently about loss and stuff. And it's just beautiful. I'm like, dude, this is someone I have loved for you know 11 years of my life like from a musical standpoint and here they are compartmentalizing and and centering grief and loss and showing me that it's okay to do it in my own stuff and i was like god that's so beautiful like that's what and it's funny like you talk about the podcast and everything like you need like one person to tell you that it's helping them And it's, that's it. You know what I mean? And like, we've all had that. We've all had one person be like, yo, what you do helps me. And it's like, fuck it. I'm good then. Like I'm doing something that, that is impactful. And even if it doesn't help someone, it's helping you, which is the biggest thing too. And so, yeah, I think what you said is, yeah, that's really kind. And I, I, I need to hear stuff like that. And it's, it's, it's motivational and yeah, I love doing that. I love helping people heal. And like, cause the, best things in my life have came from healing, you know?
01:30:27
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. Those growing moments, you know, they, it's a, you know, there's a million analogies for it, but like you, you know, you grow through what you go through, you know, those, those tough moments are really what shiny to be that diamond you're going to become someday. Um, it's tough work though, man. It ain't, that shit ain't easy. None of it is, but I think that because of that work that you've done, we get to have these cool conversations and you get to do stuff like score reservation dogs. And I'm excited to see what comes up next for all of us because it's going to be some good shit. I know it is. I know it is. Everyone here is so... Yeah, it's good, man. I'm so thankful for you being here. Thank you so much for doing this, man.
01:31:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, no problem. I'm excited to do it. I'm glad we got to do it. And I'll be keeping... your families, a lot of my prayers and sending positive energy and everything. And yeah, man, we're all we got at some times. And so I'm happy to do it and I'm happy you all have an outlet and yeah, I'm grateful. I mean, I'm just extremely, it's a constant thing of gratitude and yeah, it's great. I'm excited for what lies ahead as well. And yeah, Yeah, this is my first podcast, too, so that's exciting.
01:31:49
Speaker 4: This is your first podcast?
01:31:51
Speaker 2: I've never been on a podcast before.
01:31:52
Speaker 4: I thought you, like, weren't you talking about, like, during the pandemic, you were doing podcasts or whatever?
01:31:57
Speaker 2: No, I was not. I wasn't doing anything.
01:32:01
Speaker 4: Did I just, like, whoa, did I just remember something that didn't happen?
01:32:06
Speaker 2: I think so. I've never been on a podcast. This is the first podcast. I've been interviewed, but I've never been.
01:32:11
Speaker 4: On a podcast. I've never talked about shit on a podcast. Dude, you rocked it. This was awesome. I think this is one of my favorite episodes, and I haven't even edited it yet. It's exactly what I want from the show, man. I just want to have fun conversations with the Indians who inspire me. Not inspire, but who embolden me to do more, who make me want to do more. you know, cause I'm competitive, man. I want to be the best. I want to do more than everyone. And that's not like on some, like, I want to be better than you or whatever, necessarily. It's just, when I see other people grow, I want to grow. You know, when I see other people do good, I want to do good. It's just, I love that kind of stuff. So like you doing good and you making these real things, Sterling doing these amazing things, everybody involved makes me want to, you know, do more. It makes me want to be better. It makes me want to learn to be creative and smart and funny and, these different things you know.
01:33:07
Speaker 2: Yeah man i mean i feel the same way and yeah you're doing it i mean you got like look you know look outside bro you got good people on your stuff and it's it's happening so um yeah i'm the same way though i'm i'm dummy competitive but yeah and it's no it's no.
01:33:28
Speaker 4: Metric toxic masculinity shit or something. It's on.
01:33:31
Speaker 2: It's literally, it's literally, I want to be the best I can be. And that's, that fuels everything. I wake up with that mentality. Like, I love it. I fucking love it. Like I, I'm so competitive when it comes to stuff. And, but it's funny too. Cause it's like, you, you carry your own metric of like success, you know? And that's what I'm really motivated by. Like, I think from what I could tell from like you and Cheyenne doing this, it's like, you want to create the most, successful way of like communicating indigeneity and also who inspires you. And like, you want to make something real and like, that's a degree of success. And yeah, I feel like for me, for music, it's like, I want to make some shit no one's ever heard. I want to make the most like timeless, beautiful stuff that I can make. And that's not, it's tough being a musician sometimes too. Cause it's like, you need to fold to like what, the businesses and stuff like that, but I don't know. I love doing that shit. And I think I, yeah, I'm, I'm so competitive when it comes to that. I want to make the best thing and yeah, I think it's great. I think it's super fun to do that.
01:34:38
Speaker 4: No, for me, the, the hardest thing about it all is just the imposter syndrome, the feeling like I shouldn't be doing the shit I'm doing, you know? So that kind of detracts from me being the best I can be, but I'm working on it, man. Cause I, I want to, man, I so, so want to take off and just be, you know, I I'm just ready, you know? I feel it, man. I just need to work through some personal stuff to be able to really put myself in that right place. But I'm getting there, man. I'm trying real hard because I don't want to, you know, I don't want to, I just don't want to anymore. You know, I want to be better. So that's the plan.
01:35:11
Speaker 2: I don't feel you, man. Well, you're doing it.
01:35:14
Speaker 8: Yeah.
01:35:15
Speaker 4: Thanks, man. And that was a, thanks for saying that. Oh, me too. That was a very, very inspiring. Thank you. Anyway, man, do you have any closing thoughts or any sort of things you want to say to any Indians that are listening or anything you want to, after that you can do plugs, but just any sort of stuff. If not, we could just plugs, but we've been everywhere this episode. So I get it.
01:35:35
Speaker 2: I know dude. It's so, I mean, I'm grateful to be a part of it and I think it's going to help a lot of people I would imagine. And if not, it helped us three literally like only, but even so that's great. No, it's going to do great. Yeah. I mean, closing things, Thanks for listening. I hope my voice was, you know, helpful. And I just think I'm going where I listen to podcasts and sometimes I like listen to them to sleep and shit or work out and stuff. So, yeah, hope it went well for everybody. And my name is Mato Ayuhi. That means conquering bear in Lakota. I'm named after conquering bear, chief conquering bear. And yeah.
01:36:25
Speaker 5: Yeah.
01:36:25
Speaker 2: Hit me up on all the socials. It's just my name. What else? My album Pleasure is out. It's been out since 2021. It's fucking dope.
01:36:38
Speaker 4: Go listen. It's good.
01:36:41
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Yeah, that was fun. That was a good album to make, and it was fun. And yeah, I'll be doing some shows here coming up in mid to late 2022, 2022. 2022 I don't know why I can't say that 2022 yeah weird to say but anyway yeah I'll be doing that and uh got some stuff coming up and yeah it's cool grateful to be doing what I'm doing and I am just pieces of who.
01:37:11
Speaker 4: Made me you know yeah I think it's a beautiful note to end on man thank you so much for doing this and everyone listening at home thank you for listening have a good night or day or whatever.
01:37:21
Speaker 2: You're doing Natural Causes is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the.
01:37:30
Speaker 4: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
01:37:34
Speaker 2: You can find sources for Natural Causes listed directly in episode descriptions.
01:37:38
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.