WEBVTT
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00:00:01.520First of all, thanks for coming down and taking the time.
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00:00:02.160I know you're busy.
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00:00:04.160We caught up at Black Hat, and I'm glad that we did.
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00:00:06.320And then obviously we're here in the in the chaos of DEF CON.
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00:00:07.280But who am I with?
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00:00:08.320What do you do and why do you do it?
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00:00:10.080Yes, I'm Philip Wiley.
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00:00:12.160Uh I work in offensive security.
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00:00:16.320I'm also a podcaster and frequent conference speaker.
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00:00:23.199Nice.
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00:00:23.839Cool.
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00:00:27.199I can't remember how many years ago that we we worked together.
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00:00:29.280Uh maybe three, four years ago.
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00:00:31.120Yeah.
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00:00:31.280Yeah.
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00:00:32.159Okay, cool.
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00:00:40.960The goal, as I said, with with the podcast and the stories that we're telling is you know, we're trying to change the narrative of the health and the state of the health industry within cybersecurity.
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00:00:46.560And as someone who has looked after their health for, I assume, all of your life, uh, I think you'll have an interesting perspective on it.
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00:00:52.560So give me a bit of an idea is that what you see, the struggles within the industry in terms of people's health.
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00:00:55.840Yeah, I think people just aren't really focusing on their health.
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00:01:01.439I think it's kind of from my experience, people kind of wait later in life, and I think they need to do this sooner.
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00:01:12.400Because I just had dinner with a friend last night and he had all sorts of health issues and started like a GLP one because he's on uh blood pressure and and diabetes medications.
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00:01:18.959And so he kind of realized because he had some family members that are older that having issues, and finally decided he needed to focus on it.
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00:01:28.480And I think people really need to start thinking about that now because you may be, while you may be young and feel okay, not really having health issues, that doesn't mean it's not going to happen.
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00:01:39.760So if you can be more proactive and start implementing some kind of uh workout routine and proper nutrition and stuff and taking care of stress earlier on, you can head off some of those issues.
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00:01:41.040Yeah, yeah, for sure.
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00:01:45.760And you've had an extensive training career and you've done a lot of things.
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00:01:50.000So get a give a bit of an insight to that over the journey of decades of training.
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00:01:50.719Sure, yeah.
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00:01:53.599So I got started working out in 1980.
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00:01:56.480It was over the summer summer break.
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00:02:04.879I was watching the movie Pumping Iron because actually during school, we used to go in off-season football and just work out on the weight rooms.
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00:02:13.199They had the old universal machines, and I had like the highest bench press, but I was a chubby kid, and people didn't believe me when I told them how much I could bench press.
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00:02:18.000So my goal was to get in better shape so people would I'd look like I could lift what I said I lifted.
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00:02:22.800And so I saw the movie Pumping Iron over the summer, and that really got me motivated.
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00:02:25.120So I started working out in my home.
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00:02:26.639It was kind of funny to do squats.
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00:02:32.000I didn't have a squat rack, so I'd have to clean the bar up to get on my back to do squats and stuff.
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00:02:36.800But I got started and it was like one of the first things I ever did that I was actually good at.
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00:02:42.240So by the time my senior year rolled around, I competed in my first powerlifting competition.
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00:02:52.080And I forget all the total numbers, but I won my weight class, and the only person in the competition that lifted more, I was like in the 220 class, weighing in like 210.
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00:02:58.159And the only one that outtotled me or maybe squatted more than I did was like 275 or something like that.
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00:03:00.159But I had the highest bench in the competition.
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00:03:06.080So my very first competition, I think I squatted 450, deadlifted 450, and then benched like 350.
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00:03:06.879Crazy, crazy.
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00:03:12.080And I was in course in competition, you have to pause the bar on your chest to prevent people from bouncing it.
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00:03:12.960Yeah, yeah, fair.
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00:03:17.599And then from that, obviously, you know, you find a love, like you said, something that you find that you you were actually good at.
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00:03:19.680So how did it evolve from then?
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00:03:22.960Yeah, so I just kind of add a little bit more to that background.
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00:03:35.199I had compete up to 2019, and so I've actually won the AWPC World Championships, was a drug-tested uh competition back in 2007 in the 242-pound class.
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00:03:37.759My competitor was like 10 years younger than me.
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00:03:46.719It's funny during the weigh-ins, they have the cards with your weights, you put your attempts, they weigh you in, and then also put your age, and he saw my age on there.
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00:03:47.919He said, 1965.
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00:03:49.759He says, Wow, you look good for your age.
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00:03:52.560So there's a little more motivation to beat him.
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00:03:54.560So I competed several different places.
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00:03:58.960Some of the most memorable places I can competed at the Arnold Classic a couple times.
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00:04:00.719Nice in the USAPL.
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00:04:01.120Nice.
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00:04:02.879Uh, so that was an interesting experience.
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00:04:17.600I have several records that still kind of stand uh in uh the USAPL because they went to new weight classes, so they kind of got some of the records kind of got grandfathered from some of the the lifts I'd set at the Arnold Arnold Classic.
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00:04:23.040And so my best lift was the deadlift, and I have done 705 pounds raw on the deadlift.
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00:04:23.519Okay.
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00:04:26.879Do you remember what the the total from those events for the competitions that you won?
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00:04:34.160So the best competitions that I had, so at the Arnold, my best there, because they don't use a deadlift bar, they use a regular power bar.
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00:04:34.399Okay.
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00:04:39.360So my best deadlift without a deadlift bar was 672 pounds.
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00:04:39.600Okay.
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00:04:53.279That same competition I squatted 573, and then I think I benched like uh 390 or something, 380 or something like that, but I had injured my elbow leading up to the competition.
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00:04:57.199But my best bench press was like 407.
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00:05:02.879Uh best deadlift without a deadlift suit was 705.
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00:05:06.720Best deadlift with a suit was 722 pounds.
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00:05:10.160Serious, serious we then like big, big, big tootles.
00:05:10.480 -->
00:05:15.920So leading up to that 705 deadlift, I was following uh Jim Wendler's 531 routine.
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00:05:26.079Okay, and so you do rep maxes at the end of the workout instead of doing a single max, okay, which really worked out well for me because it prevented me from overtraining too much.
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00:05:32.319And so I would went up to 585, six wheels on each side for seven reps without straps.
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00:05:32.959Whoa.
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00:05:34.000Okay, fair.
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00:05:36.800Okay, so give me an idea then from that.
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00:05:50.319Obviously, you know, when we we caught up yesterday, I think even back whenever you know, where we worked together, obviously you you hung the power lifting up because you know, get to the stage where it's like, okay, I might why am I doing this?
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00:05:51.199What's you know, what's the point?
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00:05:53.920So give me a bit of an idea as to how things have adapted since then.
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00:05:58.079You still train, so like I still train since then, but it's mainly just focused on health.
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00:06:06.319And one of the things I did even prior to us working together, uh my mom passed away from cancer in 2014, and it just kind of was a wake-up call for me.
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00:06:09.839Like I mentioned, other people as you get older needing to focus on your health.
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00:06:11.040So I lost weight.
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00:06:17.759I was weighing like 255 or something, ended up getting down to like 205 at 15% body fat.
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00:06:21.279That's like the best shape I've been in in a long time.
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00:06:25.439And uh, so I've just been focusing more on just being shape.
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00:06:32.399And with the the competition thing, I knew being lighter and stuff, I wouldn't be able to do the kind of numbers I was doing before.
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00:06:34.959And I kind of figured I got out with minimal injuries.
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00:06:36.399I really don't have aches and pains.
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00:06:41.120Yeah, I get around well, and so I figured there's no use risking possible injury to do that.
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00:06:42.720And that's one of the reasons it prevented me.
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00:06:58.319At one time I was considering strongman competitions, but I saw so much opportunity for injuries there when you're moving around running with weight, you know, like the farmers carries or some of the yokes and stuff and things like that, or Atlas Stones, there's all sorts of rooms for injury there.
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00:06:59.839So I've kind of avoided that.
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00:07:12.480And for me, it's like if I can't compete at the level I once did, I don't really want to uh risk the injury just to do some subpar because you know if you once you're at a certain level, it's kind of hard to go down and and accept that.
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00:07:14.959But I've really focused more on health.
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00:07:23.360Recently I started adding in more cardio because I used to be really good with cardio, but my time is so limited and my workouts are kind of short these days.
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00:07:25.519So I actually get it, got a bike at home.
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00:07:26.879So I'm riding three days a week.
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00:07:29.279I got one of the Carol bikes, one of the AI bikes.
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00:07:30.079Yeah, yeah, nice, cool.
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00:07:34.959That allows you to do like a seven or nine minute workout to see equal to like a 45-minute run.
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00:07:35.600Nice, cool.
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00:07:36.879So I'm doing that type of stuff.
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00:07:38.319I still need to lose a little bit more weight.
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00:07:41.839I'd gain because when I travel, it's hard to stick with the diet.
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00:07:53.040So I'm trying to get back on a diet and possibly lose more weight because I'm thinking that it could help some of my health issues if I was to get down, uh, you know, get to a leaner body weight.
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00:07:56.639Because last time I had a DEXA scan done, I was like around 20%.
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00:07:57.279Okay.
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00:08:01.120I figure if I get down about 15% body fat, it would help me a lot of the health issues.
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00:08:02.240Yeah, yeah, for sure.
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00:08:04.639How do you think the excuse you you mentioned time there?
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00:08:09.199So obviously, the one of the biggest excuses that I hear within the industry is is time.
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00:08:14.800Um, and I I understand it to an extent, but obviously, you know, you've you've been through your entire career.
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00:08:23.040Like, how did you find managing your training alongside the pressures of the job and the time commitments of the job, travel and everything in between?
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00:08:31.920So when I was competing in powerlifting, it was a little more difficult because I had gotten my first consulting job uh the last several years that I competed in powerlifting.
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00:08:43.919So I'd have to find a gym when I was out of town to get workouts in, which the good thing about timing-wise, you go somewhere you're working as a consultant, usually you're not doing anything after work, you're usually on site with no coworkers, so you've got all sorts of time.
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00:08:50.720So in the evenings, I would find a gym and go work out because I was still competing in powerlifting and I still needed to get my workouts in.
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00:08:56.480Because one of the things compared to just training, if you miss a workout, that's not good.
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00:09:01.200And sometimes it's not awful, but if you're competing, if you miss workouts, you're not going to perform well.
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00:09:03.120So it really pressured me to do that.
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00:09:07.440And I think with making time, people just need to be realistic.
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00:09:16.720People have more time than what they think they do because think how much time people waste watching television or watching YouTube videos and just you know, doom scrolling on social media.
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00:09:17.840You can find time.
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00:09:28.399One of the things I try to do, and and in the past, if I didn't have adequate time or make adequate time for a workout, I would just miss the workout.
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00:09:30.879But I got to where now I go to the gym regardless.
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00:09:31.360Yep.
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00:09:35.039If I'm only in there 15 minutes, then I've still got something in there.
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00:09:41.519So one of my approaches is just getting work in, just going in to get in some kind of activity because something's better than nothing.
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00:09:47.919Because if you keep blowing it off because you don't have an excuse or you don't have time, then you're not going to get it done and you're just going to get further behind.
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00:09:49.919So I think something's better than nothing.
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00:09:54.960Even if someone can just break up their workouts into several small workouts throughout the day.
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00:10:02.720If you're at home, uh you're between conference calls, you could do some push-ups, you could do some bodyweight squats, you could do some stretching or something, you know?
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00:10:03.759Yeah, yeah, and I agree.
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00:10:06.320And obviously, you know, I I fully understand.
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00:10:11.039Like whenever you're in that competition phase of your life, like the commitment to it is obviously a lot more.
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00:10:12.480So you need to spend the time doing it.
00:10:12.559 -->
00:10:19.039But even, you know, with my own training, with less responsibilities in a younger version of me, we'd spend two hours in the gym and wouldn't even blink twice.
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00:10:23.120But then as you you know have more responsibilities, get busier, whatever else, it needs to adapt.
00:10:23.200 -->
00:10:25.440And I think that's it's just you need to find out how it works.
00:10:25.519 -->
00:10:26.399And you're exactly right.
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00:10:35.519Like, I've you know, we've been here and I have a lot of clients here, and I'm like, don't expect to go in and nail it as you would whenever you're at home because it's not the same environment, just manage your expectations.
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00:10:46.960And the biggest thing that I've seen, and you've maybe heard it many times yourself, is like, you know, I'm you know, I'm so on it, I'm making so much progress, and then I travel, you know, to Vegas for a week and then I don't do anything, and it takes me six months to get back to it.
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00:10:56.480Whereas if you just actually maintain the habit of like, all right, well, I can't do you know my normal 45-minute, 60-minute workout, but I still went to the gym and I did it 15 minutes, or even like you said, I said a set of push-ups.
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00:10:59.200It's like you've intentionally done the thing and you've you've ticked the box.
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00:11:02.960So whenever you get back, it's much easier to just like slap back, slot back into it.
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00:11:15.120Um, give me a bit of an idea as to like the contrast of you within your career and and the people around you, because you know, I know there are people that do focus on their health and they do train, but in the industry it's it's not as common.
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00:11:21.679What was the you know, what was the the contrast in that with the people, you know, how did they treat you differently?
00:11:21.759 -->
00:11:22.480Did they have questions?
00:11:22.559 -->
00:11:23.679Like how are you fitting it in?
00:11:23.759 -->
00:11:24.320Like, how was that?
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00:11:40.480Yeah, some people would, they wouldn't understand how you know how I had the time, how I was doing that, but it just goes back to what you make time for because some of these people are spending we're spending tons of time uh you know playing video games or something, and they were doing other things in the place of of do of doing that.
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00:11:41.279So yeah.
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00:11:56.080And what do you think then, like again, over your time, like the biggest problems that you see, and you know, there's there's all extremes in terms of people in the industry, like you know, health issues and whatever else, like what do you see the biggest biggest problem within the industry is for the people who don't manage their health?
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00:11:57.279I think so, yeah.
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00:12:01.039Some of the they come back, a lot of these issues come up and they start having health issues.
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00:12:20.879But I think some of the mistakes people make too is maybe some of these magazines they buy uh and they're the workouts are unrealistic and they don't realize this is for someone that's been doing this so long, or you get a bodybuilding magazine, you don't realize that okay, these guys are taking testosterone, growth hormone, and a plethora of steroids, and don't really you can't do that same thing.
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00:12:26.159And even you take some of the natural bodybuilders, they gotta realize it took them years to get that point.
00:12:26.240 -->
00:12:27.600And you gotta be realistic.
00:12:27.679 -->
00:12:42.799And you when you're setting up your workouts, you need to find something you can stick with because sometimes you get too gung-ho and you get overly ambitious and you set something up that maybe you do it for a month and then you drop off of it because you can't keep up with it.
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00:12:45.600Now all of a sudden you can't make time for a two-hour workout.
00:12:45.679 -->
00:12:48.639But if you had something more reasonable, that's easier to stick to.
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00:13:00.480And you know, for me, working out's like a habit, so you just have to build in that habit and and do realistic workouts and don't try to, you know, overshoot and try to do something way too complicated and difficult.
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00:13:18.240Yeah, and even if you know on the on the flip side of it, obviously there's the physical side of it and the the health side of it, but in an industry that's you know very you know, high stress, you know, high cognitive load, big decision making, what do you think the benefit of taking yourself seriously in terms of your health and your physical health and your strength?
00:13:18.320 -->
00:13:21.919How do you think that translates to the industry and to the job role?
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00:13:27.440Yeah, it translates really well because one thing it's gonna, if you're if you're managing stress well, you're gonna perform better.
00:13:27.519 -->
00:13:33.360And you gotta realize that this body and all this stuff is kind of a life support system for your brain.
00:13:33.600 -->
00:13:43.360So the better health you have, uh better you're controlling blood sugar, better you're controlling all these other factors, then you're gonna perform better.
00:13:43.440 -->
00:13:44.480It's gonna be easier to focus.
00:13:44.559 -->
00:13:50.960So if someone's eating a ton of sugar and carbs, they're gonna have brain fog all day, and it's gonna be hard to concentrate.
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00:14:01.120And then when you get those blood sugar dips from the spikes, you know, from eating the sugar, then you just kind of feel tired and stuff, and then you're gonna eat things you shouldn't, shouldn't eat.
00:14:01.360 -->
00:14:01.519Yeah.
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00:14:12.240And do you think though I see it with the people that I work with, and when we do the change, you know, I don't think people realize that the things that they eat actually impact how they feel and their performance, whether it's in the gym or whether it's in work.
00:14:12.320 -->
00:14:21.279Like, do you think there's the the sort of misunderstanding of the importance of nutrition and making sure you're managing it well so that you can think better, have more energy, you know, train whatever it is in terms of the industry?
00:14:21.519 -->
00:14:30.720Yeah, I think there is, and then people do some of these uh, you know, fad diets and stuff, and I think some cases and too too stuck on trying to lose weight.
00:14:30.799 -->
00:14:48.000But I think the best way to start is just start eating clean, not really worry about calories, you know, because if you've been eating a lot of food, and if you switch that for healthy food and you're getting enough to eat, do that for a while and then you want to lose weight, then start reducing calories or certain macronutrients to lose the fat and stuff.
00:14:48.080 -->
00:14:48.159Yeah.
00:14:48.320 -->
00:14:54.320Because people get too caught up on getting too strict there like they would on a workout and find something they can't stick with.
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00:14:54.639Yeah.
00:14:54.720 -->
00:14:56.799So just actually making better choices is the start point.
00:14:56.879 -->
00:14:58.480And I just just recorded something else there.
00:14:58.559 -->
00:15:08.080And I think again, like you say, people get too gung-ho and they're like, right, that maybe something happens in their life or they get some news or you know, some something happens with one of their relatives and they're like, right, I need to make a change.
00:15:08.240 -->
00:15:10.799And then from that day, they decide to change absolutely everything.
00:15:10.879 -->
00:15:11.120Yeah.
00:15:11.279 -->
00:15:23.519Whereas, like, I appreciate the enthusiasm, but you know, if you if you pick one thing to focus on, whether it's nutrition, whether it's just being more active, going out and get a walk, doing some cardio hydration, recovery, whatever it is, and then just compound it over time.
00:15:23.600 -->
00:15:34.159You know, I think that that that's that's essentially I think that the best approach so that you can if you commit to okay, right, for the next month I'm going to eat better quality foods, and that's the only change that you're going to make.
00:15:34.320 -->
00:15:38.399You will 100% notice the difference in terms of how you feel, how you look, the energy that you have, and you're okay.
00:15:38.480 -->
00:15:42.799Well, if I feel better doing this, then I'll I'll do this, then I'll do this, and you gradually build on it over time.
00:15:43.200 -->
00:15:48.799Um how do you manage now with the travel and with everything else?
00:15:48.879 -->
00:15:53.360I know that you manage your workouts and you're a bit more realistic, but the nutrition piece on that side, like how do you how do you get that in?
00:15:53.440 -->
00:15:57.679And if you were to share some advice for someone who works a lot, travels a lot, has a lot of things going on.
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00:15:58.480Like, how do you do that?
00:15:58.639 -->
00:16:04.080One of the things, the best bit of advice I can give is is plan your meals, eat before you get hungry.
00:16:04.159 -->
00:16:04.320Yep.
00:16:04.480 -->
00:16:09.440Because if you wait until you until you can eat later on and you get too hungry, you're gonna eat whatever.
00:16:09.519 -->
00:16:11.519And so I ran into that a while back.
00:16:11.600 -->
00:16:12.720I was working for this company.
00:16:12.799 -->
00:16:15.360We had a sales kickoff in San Diego.
00:16:15.519 -->
00:16:18.240I got to the dinner, there was hardly anything there for me to eat.
00:16:18.320 -->
00:16:23.039I had like a salad, and in hindsight, I could have taken the tacos and just took the meat off of it.
00:16:23.120 -->
00:16:27.679But I thought I'll just wait and get some healthy food after the dinner.
00:16:27.919 -->
00:16:30.240And I didn't get to have dinner until 10 p.m.
00:16:30.320 -->
00:16:34.879And by the time it was time to eat dinner, I was hungry and it's a little bit harder to control what I what I eat.
00:16:34.960 -->
00:16:36.720And I end up getting like a burger and fries.
00:16:36.799 -->
00:16:44.159Yeah, could have been even worse than that, but it was, you know, if I would have had the food I needed when I needed it, I wouldn't have strayed from my diet.
00:16:44.240 -->
00:16:59.279And I think that's one of the biggest things is when it's time to eat, try to eat on a schedule, you know, eat a little bit before you get hungry, have things like that's uh, I don't know, for me, carrying beef jerky or some different types of mixed nuts or something to have those snacks to prevent trying to get hungry.
00:16:59.519 -->
00:17:04.559And it seems like too, if you you know, back into something that benefits being hydrated, drinking plenty of water.
00:17:04.799 -->
00:17:08.480Sometimes if you're drinking plenty of water, that prevents you from getting overly hungry too.
00:17:08.640 -->
00:17:09.599Yeah, yeah, sure.
00:17:09.839 -->
00:17:23.440And in terms of like, you know, if we think about this as an environmental thing, whether it's the industry as a whole or at conferences and whatever else, like I assume you know, the the mission of trying to improve the health across the board in terms of the industry, like what do you think we could do your hike?
00:17:23.599 -->
00:17:28.880How could we implement something or what would make the biggest change as a collective for the entire industry?
00:17:29.200 -->
00:17:32.319I think if organizations would start uh kind of encouraging that.
00:17:32.400 -->
00:17:45.680I've seen some that do that offer, you know, free uh gym memberships or reduced gym memberships, or maybe they'll I've even seen some companies that have like a Zoom yoga class or something or different mindful uh classes and stuff.
00:17:45.759 -->
00:17:49.200I think that's really companies ought to look at doing that because it's a huge benefit for them.
00:17:49.359 -->
00:17:59.039If the employees stay healthy, less time out of work due to illness, if they they're able to reduce the stress, they're gonna do better in their job, be able to focus more.
00:17:59.200 -->
00:18:01.279So it's a big benefit for them as well as the people.
00:18:01.440 -->
00:18:03.599Plus, you want to keep your employees around.
00:18:03.680 -->
00:18:11.039If they get unhealthy and 10, 15 years, 20 years down the road, they get too unhealthy, have a stroke or something, then you know they may just have to retire.
00:18:11.119 -->
00:18:13.920So I think it's in comp company's best interest to do that.
00:18:14.000 -->
00:18:16.799And also it's healthy people, happier people.
00:18:16.880 -->
00:18:22.240Because I always noticed before when I wasn't doing really good at taking care of my health, I really wasn't in as good of a mood.
00:18:22.319 -->
00:18:33.680I didn't, it seems like when you're not feeling good about yourself, it's harder to uh be productive and and then just overall the way you operate because based on the way you feel, because your health.
00:18:33.920 -->
00:18:40.319Yeah, and I I agree, like it needs to you obviously can't force it in everybody, and I think that you know that's absolutely fine.
00:18:40.400 -->
00:18:54.559But I think if it is, you know, if it comes from a company level, whether it's you know, they see the you know the C level or you know, the higher up in the company that they're doing it, it's like make it a part of the culture of the of the company, like the culture in this, and as I've sort of grown to know over the past five years, it's the culture is a naturally unhealthy one.
00:18:54.640 -->
00:18:55.039Do you know what I mean?
00:18:55.119 -->
00:19:00.960I remember Dave at the start, he was like, it's it's the sort of people are like they they almost glamorize the stand up the head drinking.
00:19:01.039 -->
00:19:04.400You know, I was able to hack this thing at you know, I was up to 3 a.m., but I got up at 8 a.m.
00:19:04.559 -->
00:19:07.680and I got this thing, and it's like it sort of promotes that in a little bit.
00:19:07.759 -->
00:19:12.400And I think to sort of change that, it's it's sort of one person at a time, which will take probably an eternity.
00:19:12.480 -->
00:19:14.880But if it comes from a company level, then it'll be completely different.
00:19:15.119 -->
00:19:17.599One of the things I've seen too before in the past, I think is good.
00:19:17.680 -->
00:19:26.640I'd like to see more companies adopt is I've seen companies that uh you would get you know dollars off of your health insurance if you were working out.
00:19:26.720 -->
00:19:26.960Yeah.
00:19:27.119 -->
00:19:29.119And they had like some weight loss programs and things.
00:19:29.200 -->
00:19:33.519If you follow these part of these programs, it's a way to motivate people to get involved.
00:19:33.599 -->
00:19:34.640It's saving them money.
00:19:34.720 -->
00:19:42.960And and also if you're working together as a team and people help push each other, maybe at lunchtime co-workers to go take a walk during lunch and stuff.
00:19:43.039 -->
00:19:43.279Yeah.
00:19:43.440 -->
00:19:44.559So yeah, agree.
00:19:44.799 -->
00:19:50.799If we wrap it up and you were to give one piece of advice to somebody who's listening and be like, I don't even know where to begin with any of this.
00:19:50.960 -->
00:19:53.920You know, I'm unhealthy, I'm unfit, I don't like going to the gym.
00:19:54.000 -->
00:19:56.160You know, there's a lot of people that, you know, they feel intimidated by the gym.
00:19:56.240 -->
00:19:58.240You know, I don't know what to do with my train nutrition.
00:19:58.400 -->
00:20:00.079Like, what's what's the start point for people?
00:20:00.400 -->
00:20:10.480First start point is find someone like yourself that understands, you know, nutrition and exercise, or maybe it's someone at a gym where they're at, get help because it's gonna be a lot easier.
00:20:10.640 -->
00:20:16.720Because even if you know someone else that works out, someone can save you years of headache because they've done this before.
00:20:16.880 -->
00:20:23.680But find get someone help because I mean, if you're wanting to learn a certain skill, you take a class or something, so you should treat your health the same way.
00:20:23.839 -->
00:20:28.480Find someone that understands nutrition and exercise to help you get started.
00:20:28.640 -->
00:20:30.240Yeah, so it's going to the expert, too.
00:20:30.480 -->
00:20:39.039I mean, it's like finding you, like you said, even within the industry, like people if they have a problem or they have an issue or they want to learn something, they're gonna go to the expert and they think they treat their health as like I'll be able to do it myself.
00:20:39.119 -->
00:20:44.799And I was like, potentially, yes, but how much time do you waste or you know how many mistakes are you gonna make?
00:20:44.880 -->
00:20:49.440And on how you know, how could you fast forward the process that a little bit by just asking asking for help?
00:20:49.680 -->
00:20:51.519Like people know what they should do, yeah.
00:20:51.839 -->
00:20:54.160They just don't do it, and to share a good example too.
00:20:54.319 -->
00:21:08.240So uh, of course, like Dave, because when I first met Dave like in 2019, Dave would you know had been fighting uh weight and stuff, and at that time he had lost weight, but he was kind of kind of skinny fat.
00:21:08.319 -->
00:21:12.480Yeah, but at one time he was like really heavy, but it was really interesting to see what happened.
00:21:12.559 -->
00:21:23.279I assumed he's been was doing that all on his own, or he just didn't really have a good qualified trainer because then once he met you, yeah, it was just night and day differences amazing how how well he improved.
00:21:23.359 -->
00:21:28.079And that just goes to show if you got someone that's an expert that can help you with this, you can reach your goals easier.
00:21:28.160 -->
00:21:33.039And there's sometimes, you know, you may put out a lot less effort to get to that goal than you would otherwise.
00:21:33.279 -->
00:21:40.480Yeah, and I think that you know the thing about it is it may seem like a huge task and it may seem daunting, but it is easy when you get in.
00:21:40.559 -->
00:21:42.160I think that the hard pit is actually just starting.
00:21:42.240 -->
00:21:51.839But when you get into it, then I've I've heard it time and time again with conversations with people who've listened to the podcast and they've just started taking the advice or people that I've worked with, it's like it wasn't as hard as I thought, and it doesn't take as long as I thought.
00:21:51.920 -->
00:21:56.880You know, maybe you'll not be where you want to be in six months or a year, but you didn't get to where you're at right now in six months or a year.
00:21:56.960 -->
00:22:05.680So it's like just actually starting and like the benefits that you can feel over time, you know, it will it will compound, and it's just actually taking that first step and getting started.
00:22:06.000 -->
00:22:06.240Cool.
00:22:06.400 -->
00:22:07.519Well, Philip, thanks for joining us.
00:22:07.599 -->
00:22:08.079Oh, you're welcome.
00:22:08.240 -->
00:22:09.200I um my pleasure.
00:22:09.519 -->
00:22:10.880We will we will do this again.
00:22:10.960 -->
00:22:22.319Um, but I think it's an important message, and as I said, you know, we're trying to spread that within everybody else and sort of change just change the stigma around the industry and and make it a healthier place for everybody because healthier people will be better hackers, and and obviously that's the goal of the thing.
00:22:22.799 -->
00:22:23.200Thank you so much.
00:22:23.599 -->
00:22:24.079Thank you.
