Sober Magic: The Healing Power of Tarot

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So many magical and painful and challenging
things come into our lives at that age. Sobriety
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has given me the gift of not keeping sobriety
in the forefront of my mind anymore. Every
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sacrifice I've made has been well worth it for
the gifts it's brought to. Discomfort used
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to feel like it was going to kill me. Discomfort's
not gonna kill anyone.
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Hello, hello, and welcome back to Retrieving
Sanity with your podcast host Keegan, and this
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is your podcast for recovery-focused healing
from addictions and traumas. Today, we are
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joined by a guest who proves that magic isn't
just found in ancient forests, but in the heart
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of New York City and within the quiet moments
of our own healing. Sarah Potter is a world-renowned
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psychic, tarot reader, and the author of the
transformative book, Sober Magic. She has designed
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bespoke rituals for brands like Marc Jacobs
and Held Space for hundreds of immersive full
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moon ceremonies, but her true mastery lies
in helping individuals use the tarot to build
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a bridge back to themselves. So Sarah, how are
you doing today and how did you find yourself
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reading tarot like you do? I'm so good. I
just like, I love Sunday. Sunday is such a
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good day. I feel like I don't get the Sunday
scaries anymore. So it's just lovely to be
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here with you. And Tarot's been part of my life
for a long time. I found Tarot when I was 12.
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I feel like so many magical and painful and
challenging things come into our lives at that
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age. I feel like there's a reason so many spiritual
rites come around that time. Because for me,
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That was when I was really first accessing
or attempting to understand my sense of power
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and agency and really trying to understand
the world around me. I grew up as a psychic
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child and Taro helped me make sense of everything
I was putting together and feel or help me
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put together everything I was sensing and feeling
and Just to be like totally honest, I fell
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into tarot because I wanted to know who had
a crush on me. And I felt that I could use
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the cards to navigate that. it was so funny.
I shared that with a friend of mine and he's
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like, isn't it always like back to love? He's
like, that's when I picked up a guitar. And
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he was like at 12, I picked up a guitar to
try to connect with others and understand
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like loving connection in that way. And uh
I think that's really sweet to think about.
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So, you know, that's when I found Tarot and
I've had a, feel like any long relationship,
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it's been up and down and there were times I
put my cards away and then pick them back
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up. uh But now, you we're stuck together. We're
together every day. it is my longest lasting
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relationship. and truly wonderful. Oh, I
love that. That is really awesome. And I just
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got to say, I think you're right about that
whole 12, 13 year old range, because that's
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what my shift happened to, you know? Oh, yeah.
So like, I bet you that's something to really
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ask a bunch of people, you know? But I love
how you use tarot like that, because and you
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made that connection because what was it? I
saw something on Facebook not too long ago
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where it was like if you were into the little
thing that could do the paper shape. Yes. And
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like if you could do that or if you like did
something else to like just read fate or whatever,
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you're probably into witchcraft and tarot now.
And I was like, oh, yeah, that's right. How
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they know? that amazing? I was I loved making
those things. I was always making those things.
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I was playing mash. Did you ever play mash?
um Yes. Yes. OK. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry.
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was a, oh wow, that's an old memory. Holy cow.
Yes. My, one of my greatest muses is my teenage
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self. So I think a lot about my interests at
that time and how they've grown up with me
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into adulthood. And so I really love that you
saw that on the internet because yeah, those
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little like, I don't remember what those little
thingies were called that you fold up and.
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play with, like, yeah, that and MASH are two
of my like favorite games. it's like, of course
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she grew up to be the tarot reader. uh Here's
one question though that I've kind of, I want
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to help people dispel real quick before we get
too far into tarot, because tarot has a lot
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of misconceptions with it. And one of my guests
back uh in October, I think it was, She said
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the divination or tarot rather was black magic
and I just I was like, okay, like you're free
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to have that opinion. But uh like, I mean from
a certain perspective, maybe but after exploring
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it experiencing it and really just getting to
know what it is. I hold the opposite if anything,
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it's a tool for great good, but I could see
how it's also scary to some people right because
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like you said. Sometimes you put your cards
away and I know sometimes I don't touch them
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whatever I don't want to know the truth. So
of course. Well, you know, I think that. What
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I immediately think of actually is Taro's temperance
card, which is balance and moderation. Not
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everything is a taro situation. I think that.
Discernment is really important and I think
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that anything in excess is not going to be
supportive and as far as whether divination
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is Good or or bad or how like the morality
of it For me as a spiritual advisor. I'm not
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here to tell you your moral compass, that's
for you to understand. I think that tarot
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is such a beautiful tool for self-reflection.
And I feel like that is such an important foundation.
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I feel like so much of this world is designed
for quickness and distraction and being present
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and still can be uncomfortable for so many different
reasons. and why I love tarot is it helped
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me find the comfort and peace in stillness and
to think about, what is it that I want? What
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is it that I need? And really getting to understand
myself better. And to me, there's evil about
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knowing yourself better and self-reflection.
But when morality comes into something, I
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believe that's up to the individual. And you
know what? Tarot doesn't need to be for everyone.
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It doesn't need to be for you. Not everything
is for everyone. And that's okay. I think like
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how beautiful to celebrate differences or to
know what works and what doesn't work. that's,
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I just gave up arguing about the validity of
tarot a very long time ago. And I'm actually
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in full acceptance of like, it doesn't have
to be for you. That's okay. I don't know. I
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want to know what that person was doing at 12.
I'm actually far more curious about that. Tell
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me. Like, I want to know. I love hearing everyone's
story. Yeah. Okay. Oh, so thank you for just
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highlighting that it's not for everyone necessarily.
And it's not for everything either, because
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I think whenever some people go down the spiritual
path, quote unquote, Sometimes people will
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lead themselves into a psychosis of sorts or
totally into something that is a worse situation
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than whenever they started the whole journey,
you know, uh but that's like what you said
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temperance uh balance in all things. And I
just got to say the title of your book, Sober
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Magic, kind of implies that you may have had
too much of something in the past, right?
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I'd say so. uh Yeah, well. Through, I am in
recovery and I've been sober now. You know,
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it's so funny. feel like sobriety has given
me the gift of not keeping sobriety in the
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forefront of my mind anymore, but I am sneaking
up on nine years of continuous sobriety. thank
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you. It feels good. And, and it's. Through my
journey and through writing this book, I could
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really understand that I was turning to substances
at quite a young age to combat my great sensitivity
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to the world and to dull my senses and to
dull my emotions um in a way that was harmful.
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And through recovery, I've gained tools that
are actually supportive and the understanding
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of how to move through feeling a lot of feelings
and deal with discomfort and all of the challenges
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that I feel like come with being a human. And
for me, what inspired writing this book was
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thinking about how Tarot and witchcraft and
12 steps have come together to support my recovery
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journey because this is the longest continuous
sobriety I've ever had in my life. Sobriety
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started at a pretty young age for me, but my
recovery journey does include several relapses.
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I really see the whole world through tarot.
That's how my mind works.
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The introduction of my book describes the inspiration
of the book when I had a psychic attack and
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blacked out in a concert venue. And I started
thinking about it and I was like, wow, like
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afterwards in this reflection of really celebrating
my recovery time in that moment, I was thinking
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like about the Fool's Journey of the Major Arcana
and how 12 steps is a Fool's Journey too. And
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I was like, how has anyone like put these two
together? And then I looked online, I was like,
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has anyone done this? And it's like not a deep
dive, like a deep dive book. And and it just
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made so much sense to me. And I was thinking
about how, you know, through Tara, we go through
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the fool's journey and we go from the fool to
the world. And then we start again at the fool,
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much like in 12 steps and that the the layers
of healing show us more layers to heal. And
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I was like, oh, this is my book. Oh, that is
way too cool. And I love the tie in connection
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right there, because you're right, like Whenever
I first started, oh I just want to also say
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congratulations on your longest free of recovery
because that is just way too cool. Thank you.
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Yeah. And it really does highlight that you,
no one has to follow this paradigm of someone
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else's design. If that is what you're called
to kind of follow, right? Because everyone's
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recovery is a little bit different. Some tools
help some people and some people don't even
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want to touch. other tools, you know, so whenever
it comes to the fool's journey and stuff like
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that, where did you find your first like journey
with the fool? Does that make sense? think
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so. Like, do you mean like the concept of taking
a chance and like diving into the unknown?
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Or actually here, how do you how would you
also equate tarot to the 12 steps besides
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just that? fool's journey because tarot is
way intricate and like we can dive. We have
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a whole like series on every single card, you
know. Yes. How would you describe tarot to
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someone that's possibly looking to take that
deep dive? Well, what I love about tarot is
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the visual storytelling aspect and how each
card points out different notions, archetypes,
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concepts to consider and how to apply them.
And going in order with the 12 steps and
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that fool's journey in the major arcana, which
in my book, I also back it up with the miners
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to to kind of flesh out the everyday details
as as the minor arcana does. And I felt like
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it brought in really supportive aspects to
consider and even going in order thinking of
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these parallel fools journeys that I thought
integrated quite easily just other ways to
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think about it making it practical to embody
and and being able to see how these concepts
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really support each other and for me like I
just think it's lovely to be a fool. I love
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the concept of a fool card. have a friend of
a dear friend of mine. We have had endless
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conversations about why we love that card so
much. And I think when you really, I mean,
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there's challenges to being a fool, but I also
think it's really lovely to dive into the unknown,
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free of expectations or the concept, something
I've really leaned into through recovery is
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It's okay to be scared, but do it anyway. And
to me, like the fool really embodies that energy
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of just kind of fearlessness that comes with
great fear and being able to not know what's
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next, but go into it. And it could be so much
better than you ever imagined. mean, recovery,
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my recovery journey has been challenging, but
everything good in my life is because of recovery.
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And in that way, it's beyond my wildest dreams
of what I could have ever, ever thought could
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be possible or part of my reality. And so I
think sometimes we just need to be a fool
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and embrace it fully. Yeah, I'd have to agree.
it now that I'm thinking about it, it is
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really just kind of like addiction was a fool's
journey. you know, in a sense, but at the same
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time, the aspect of recovery is a fool's journey,
too, because it's scary as hell. I don't know
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about you, but I thought getting sober was going
to be like the end of the world. Oh, yeah,
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absolutely. Of course. I thought I was going
to give up everything, but every sacrifice
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I made has been well worth it for the gifts
it's brought to you. Mm Yeah. And, ah, kitty
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cat. Wanted to be on camera, huh? Always the
star of the operation here. Speaking of cats
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and recovery, how has your cat helped you in
your recovery and mental health? Oh, so much.
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She really has. She's I am when I adopted her,
I was still it was before recovery and Actually,
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like through my step work, I did make an amends
to her and it was very sweet. She was very
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accepting and and she was like, you know, it
was kind of fun when you were hung over and
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we would lay in bed for two days watching movies
like I kind of like that. But that's not how
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I want to show up in this world. And I think
it's something that I really love about her
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presence in my life. is being responsible for
something outside of myself um and she's so
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in tune with her intuition. She's very much
like understands boundaries and has no problem
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communicating them. She knows what she needs
and wants and makes sure that those needs and
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desires are met. And it's taught me, like it
really has taught me to embody that as well.
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And... Oh, she had so much to my life. She's
part of everything, just as much as she's
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part of this interview. She's a part of every
ritual. She loves to join readings and sit
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in my lap and she's commenting as well and
offering her insight. you know, when I was
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writing this book, I was thinking about like
how to bring in familiars and how she's
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assisted my recovery and it was just, it was
one of the things that kind of got cut away.
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So that's going to be another book. But I think
that it's just, we learned so much from animals.
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And I think if you're in a space to share
your life with an animal and have a familiar
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in recovery, I think it can be so helpful and
so wonderful. And em She's just, she's added
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so much to my life. I'm so thankful for her.
Yeah. I can't imagine the kind of adventures
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that y'all had throughout the whole journey
because I mean, if it was before recovery,
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I can only imagine how hectic it actually got,
you know, cause I know how hectic recovery
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itself is and I know everything before. So.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was it, I really appreciate
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how she's been an anchor in my life and I'm
here now. I'm like really excited to get
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out of bed every day and I love the morning.
I love waking up early and and she's part of
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my routine and she travels really well. So this
cat has stayed in some of the most luxurious
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hotels. It's it's quite incredible. And I
do full moon parties at the Asbury Hotel once
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a month and as they park New Jersey. and they
are pet friendly, so she comes and only on
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the full moon, because I'll usually stay for
a few days and do readings, and she's a lovely
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guest, but on a full moon, she wants to run
out into the hallway. And I feel like, you
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know, the full moon, it's a wild energy. so,
it's really late at night, I always the full
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moon like. Really, I think there's a lot of
adrenaline like leading a ritual for a uh huge
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crowd But also like we're right near the ocean.
So I feel this adrenaline so I'm up like late
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and I I'll let her like like think she's sneaking
out of the room and like run in the hallway
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and she startled a bachelorette party on the
full moon and That was really funny. They thought
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that and I was in like a long white gown with
like pearls in my hair so they thought that
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like They saw this black hat and they thought
it was like an omen. And then they saw me,
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the ghost and like, I was like, oh, I like
picked her up and I was like, I'm sorry. We
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startled you. And then like disappeared back
into my room. And I was like, you frightened
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the bachelorettes, but you know, the witches
got to have a little fun too sometimes. So
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that was our little full moon prank or not.
don't know if it's a prank, but like a little
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full moon fright. Yeah. Yeah. We have fun.
I can only imagine that actually have played
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like, like I wish that y'all had the CCTV.
You know, that'd be hilarious. know. I know.
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We do. We have a lot of fun over here. So, yeah,
I wish we had that footage too. Yeah. Uh,
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one thing that you said before though, was that
now you're ready and excited to get out of
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bed in the mornings and she's part of your routine
and everything. And. I think another word for
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routine could be a ritual per se, right? That
is true. Absolutely. So what kind of rituals
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do you talk about in your book? Are they things
that people can do on their day to day to have
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anchor points themselves, like in whenever they
get up or if they just had a really rough day
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or something? Absolutely. So I designed this
book to be read from from first to last. OK,
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but I also feel like it can be a lovely oracle.
So if you are feeling something or maybe you
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don't have the direction today, open to a random
page, see what's there, it's meant for you.
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And each chapter is accompanied by tarot spreads
and rituals to help you understand and embody
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and integrate the lessons of that step. So,
and you don't have to do the rituals in order.
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You don't have to do this. the tarot spreads
in order either. But I always feel like, you
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know, there's a moment where I'm like, like,
I think that's a step four issue I'm having
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today. And often I think when I'm having a step
four issue, I'm actually probably having a
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step one issue. So I might go back to that
and do that ritual today or or use that tarot
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spread. And I mean, that's what I really love
about tarot and being a pagan is it taught
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me how to create a routine because I was able
to ritualize everything. had really like very
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little boundaries, no routine before I got
sober. And to be able to learn how to start
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somewhere, the first ritual I engaged in in
very early sobriety is just pulling a tarot
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card in the morning and reflecting on that,
seeing that, um and then reconnecting with
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it at the end of the day, seeing how the lessons
were unfolded, writing about it in my journal.
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And from there, I learned how to have consistency
and build upon that. And because of the amount
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of energy work I do every day, I do a lot of
rituals to start my day, to end my day, but
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also throughout. And I really feel like I
needed to learn structure. And that's how
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I was able to understand the type of structure
I needed in my life. Yeah, the structure and
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that's one of those words that I both simultaneously
love and hate. yeah, completely. Yeah. And
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so you were able to structure your own structure,
which is great because I mean, from what I've
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experienced and have heard lately is that creativity
is not our thoughts per se, but more or less
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possibly divine guiding us and saying, hey,
go this way a little bit. And so maybe the
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structure that you create for yourself was
the higher you or whatever guiding you along
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the way saying, Hey, do this. It'll help you
out. I believe so. think so. Um, but so
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you're saying that someone can sit there and
if they're wanting to start their recovery
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journey, they could actually pick up your book
and just start reading it and help them get
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sober. Well, I think it can be a tool in your
toolkit. I think that. I really do believe
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that healing and recovery is a multi-dimensional
process. find and I think it's wonderful to
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live without like limiting ourselves. I don't
think that, you know, for me, the recovery
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process being a multi-dimensional experience
has been really important. So I find that I
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would love for my book to be one of the tools
within One's recovery toolkit. Yeah, that's
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awesome. I just got to say thank you for making
that in the world because I for myself. That's
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one thing that if I saw that on a bookshelf
whenever I was in active addiction, I would
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have been like, hey, that sounds cool. I want
to read it. You know, that's good to hear.
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Wow. Yeah. I'm very inspired uh by creating
the thing I wish had been there for me. And
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I really wanted, I needed a book like this.
And I really wanted, I felt ready to share
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my story and my perspective. I mean, well, do
you ever really feel ready to be courageous
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and vulnerable? Not really, but something bigger
than me. was uh lovingly pushing me, maybe
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off the fool's cliff, uh into writing this.
I, you know, I love hearing others' recovery
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stories. And I really admire vulnerability
and courage in others. It's a lot to put yourself
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out there. It's a lot to, think, There's no
such thing as perfection, but I think to admit
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like I'm not perfect. I've, um, I've struggled,
I'm struggling, I'm figuring things out and
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this is what worked for me. I mean, that's something
I really love about, um, my experience in
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recovery communities is how we can learn from
each other's perspectives and to understand
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that something that can feel so lonely and so
solo is a very, it's a valid experience, it's
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an understandable experience, and it's often,
it is a resonating, a resonant experience.
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And, um, and I just, I mean, I found addiction
to be quite lonely. and recovery is so filled
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with love, multi-dimensional love, multifaceted
love. And, um, so if anyone can feel a
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little less alone in any way. But if you can
feel that they're reading my book, I mean,
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the work is done. I really would be honored
if anyone can relate to that experience because
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it can be tough to be a human, you know? Yeah,
it can be super tough to be a human from time
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to time and It's one of those things that getting
into recovery, some people may think that you
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have to meet certain career requisites or you
may have to follow certain things to get sober,
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to get healthy again. And that was kind of
my thing. You know, I stayed out of it because
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I was like, Hey recovery, like I have to go
back to church and stuff like that. And I'm
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not about to do that. So no, and that was just
one of the things that kind of held me back
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from doing it. wasn't the entire truth of anything
because like you said recovery is multifaceted
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you know I really can relate to that I understand
I think that and maybe maybe this is like how
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we place limitations on ourselves but I I didn't
know if I qualified as an addict and I didn't
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know if I qualified as a witch I mean I think
there's like I had all these ideas of like
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well this is what makes a witch or This is what
makes an addict. it's just like, to be honest,
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I can't, this is how I feel. If you think you're
an addict or you think, or no, if you think
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you have a problem with substances, explore
it, be curious. If you think you're a witch,
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explore it, be curious. It's probably a yes
to both. And like, so just there's something
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telling you that that's a facet of yourself
to, to, to dive into more. and explore and
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I really, I know that being an addict doesn't
look one way and neither does being a witch.
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So you don't need to wait for someone else
to tell you. Don't let it get that far. I
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think in either vein, like, you know, just
it's wonderful to be curious and. There's
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help out here. There's support. Yeah. Yeah,
for sure. Um, and you said something about,
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uh, being curious and being that fool, you know,
and sometimes we're pushed off the ledge and
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we don't really want to jump off the ledge,
but we're never really quite ready. So at
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the same time, how do you say that you were
able to accept the fall? Because a lot of
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the time Like you said, we can we can sit there
at the edge as long as we want. But like writing
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the book, you were kind of in free fall as you
were writing it, right? Yeah, I feel like
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I mean, for me, I think it's like getting sober
and even taking the fool's journey of writing
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a book. It's like the reality of not doing
it was far more painful than the reality of
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saying yes. And. You know, there are other
books I thought I was going to write and I
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didn't and someone else did. And I really do
believe in any creative act. Look, I went
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to art school. had a professor in art school
who said everything has been done. It's all
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been done. It's just up to you to do it from
your perspective. And that's how you do it
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differently. And I've really held on to that.
I really do believe that. Don't let the fact
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that Oh, it's already been done to stop you
because you haven't done it yet. So it hasn't
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been done. But there was something that I just
knew that this, needed to share my story.
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This was part of like why I'm here. And this
is part of, I feel like my spiritual path,
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my sober path, my creative path. And I did
feel an urgency of like, this just needs to
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come out of me and it needs to be shared.
And as terrified as I was to write it because
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there was a lot of fear around the vulnerability
that comes with any creative act, but really
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sharing some of the deepest, darkest challenges
I've faced and overcome where like now, like
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anyone can pay. I think 1899 and find out about
those things about me. um But it's also a story
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of redemption and finding one's power again.
it's, just, I don't know, I think anything
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good requires some sacrifice and anything
good is gonna come with a mix of emotions and.
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Fear is often one of them and I think it's
good to get out of our comfort zone. It's good
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to see how truly powerful and resilient we are.
And I really do believe that when someone
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shows up in acceptance of themselves, when
someone shows up with honesty and vulnerability,
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it encourages others to do the same. And that's
the type of world I want to live in. I really
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do believe that we can create the space we desire.
But sometimes we have to be that fool and take
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the first step. Yeah. Thank you for being open
and vulnerable with us on all that. And I mean,
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I completely feel you, you know, I think creativity
is a sacrifice in its own right. You know,
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we do produce something, but what do we have
to sacrifice to make the thing, you know, because
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it kind of goes down to alchemy. Everything
is kind of just transmuted, kind of like how
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recovery is just pain transmuted into love.
yes, I love that. It's so true. Uh, what
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would you say that is one of the aspects of
your story though, that other people need to
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hear, like if they're listening to this episode
right now, what is something that your story
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just needs to be heard from that person or to
that person? Did I say that right? Probably.
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I think you did. You know, change is really
hard, but change, I feel like change is always
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for our greatest good. And I feel like I live
in Manhattan and I make my living as a witch.
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And that is so cool. I just, I know. can believe
it, no one can believe it like think like less
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than I can. I'm just like, this is incredible.
And I really do feel that we can make our dreams
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come true. I mean, it did take a lot of hard
work and sacrifice. And I know my devotion
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to my recovery and sobriety is what allows me
to be able to, to do this book. always like,
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kind of like joke around with people I love
that it's like, I mean, of course, like this
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book wouldn't exist without me being sober because
it's about how I got sober. But like, I couldn't
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do it if I wasn't, I couldn't be in devotion
to the practice of writing a book if I wasn't
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in devotion to sobriety. And I think it's just
really important to remember that like life
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can look very different. And of course, like
that's, good, bad, surprising, otherwise, but
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we are not beholden to our addiction. And something
that I love about 12 Steps, I have a lot of
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mixed feelings about 12 Steps, probably because
I'm an addict. But for me, it works. It provided
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that framework that I needed to reflect and
understand myself, my motivations, my choices,
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and to make changes to act differently. Something
that I love about recovery is it gave me the
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understanding of like hey what you're doing
isn't working So try something else and the
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confidence to do that so You know, I was at
the deepest darkest depths of a pit when I
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was uh drinking and A lot of ways my first
year of recovery felt like clawing my way out
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of that pit like through sheer, I don't know,
might, terror, maybe some ego, you know, probably,
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but like, you know, we're so resilient as humans
and having that willingness and readiness,
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but like, I never thought that I, like, I don't
know, like nine years ago, 10 years ago, would
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think. On a beautiful Sunday afternoon, I'd
be looking out at Central Park, talking to
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my friend Keegan about my recovery journey.
That's nearly nine years of sobriety. Like,
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it's incredible. And I just feel like, like,
I really do feel like if I could do it, like,
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and you're considering it, you're listening,
you're considering it. You can too. This is
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like, my life is not a total 180. And... as
challenging as getting sober is and staying
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sober. It's wonderful. I mean, I love that.
I always like butcher all the like AA-isms
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because I like, I think there's a lot of thoughts
going on in my head, but it's like, what is
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it? Like my greatest day drunk is nowhere near
my worst day sober or something like that.
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You know, that sentiment. And it's so true.
Like my greatest day drunk, what was I doing?
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m nothing of merit, know, like nothing loving
towards myself. Like now I just it as challenging
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as clarity can be sometimes it's the greatest
gift and I have it in abundance. So. Yeah,
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wonderful. That's an amazing message for anyone
out there that really needed to hear that.
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And I mean, seriously, if someone heard that
and they're like, maybe I need to get So where
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maybe I need to look into recovery. Totally
do it. Like it's it's not a membership. know,
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it's. That's right. Yeah. If I guess if you
don't like it, you could cancel it. Yes. I
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wouldn't advise that. I'm not saying do that,
but like it's not locking you in like those
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gym memberships. Yeah. Right. And oh, I'm glad
that you said that because as we're recording,
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we're coming up on the new year. And so by the
time this gets. release it's going to be little
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bit after but everyone still needs to hear this
because I feel that like recovery is a lot
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like a New Year's resolution and I have a resentment
towards New Year's resolutions. Same. Because
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I've never kept a single one. uh Really? Yeah.
I've never kept a single New Year's resolution
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because I never could commit to a full year.
You know, it's kind of like recovery. have
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to do this forever. Are you serious? And that
was the mindset. But in recovery, I've learned
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it's a moment at a time. It's a breath at a
time. It's five minutes at the day. And I
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just think a lot of us kind of screw ourselves
whenever we think if I do this now, I have
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to do it forever. I'm just doing this one
day at a time. And somehow now it's nearly
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nine years. So. That's all it is. hmm. Yeah.
And I mean, it's like you said, sometimes
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that clarity is challenging and sometimes that
new challenge brings about old triggers that
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we thought we were kind of done with or whatever.
And we're like, oh, well, how do you handle
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those situations? Because I mean, that's how
a lot of people end up falling into a really
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bad relapse and maybe not get out of that relapse,
you know? Oh, of course. And I have a lot
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of compassion for that. And I've been there.
That's that's part of my story. And something
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that I really love about recovery is something
you already mentioned. It's just, it's moment
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to moment. And I really think that if you look
at anything like a big mountain, of course
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that's intimidating. But when you just do it
one step at a time, it's manageable. And something...
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I've learned in recovery is like, so discomfort
was a big trigger for me. It still is. Look,
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we live in a world filled with triggers. Like,
that's going to be it. Recovery is not going
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to take those away. I hate to spoil it for
everyone. is triggers will remain. But I think
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self-compassion is a lovely anecdote to triggers.
Acceptance, understanding of what you need
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and how you can be supported is wonderful.
And, you know, I don't want to like not leave
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my house personally, so I'm going to venture
out into the world with my triggers. I mean,
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there's triggers going on in my own mind, so
they're going to find me wherever I am. But
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I do feel that now I have the skills and tools
to combat it and discomfort used to feel like
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it was going to kill me. it's actually not discomfort.
It's not going to kill anyone. The destructive
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habits to cope with it could, though. And the
reality for me is I can be uncomfortable for
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five minutes. And and after that, I can check
in with myself and see, like, am I still really
358
00:42:29,928 --> 00:42:36,607
uncomfortable? Well, do I have to be in this
situation? Or can I go? Can I do something
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00:42:36,607 --> 00:42:44,330
else? Can I have help and support? I don't
have to do everything on my own. Recovery's
360
00:42:44,330 --> 00:42:50,613
taught me there's tons of help available. And
things that used to make me uncomfortable,
361
00:42:50,905 --> 00:42:57,406
I can actually have the help there with me.
So I'm not navigating it alone. Even if it's
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just texting someone I love or having a little
phone call or having that reminder. Or you
363
00:43:03,728 --> 00:43:09,160
know what? mean, maybe they're going to come
with me and or maybe I don't have to go.
364
00:43:09,558 --> 00:43:18,785
I just feel like there's but universally I've
understood I can handle that discomfort. And
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00:43:18,785 --> 00:43:24,927
the 12 steps has provided that framework for
me to actually understand where the discomfort
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00:43:24,927 --> 00:43:31,470
stems from. And I for me, when I figured out
what that was, I could accept it more easily.
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00:43:31,930 --> 00:43:40,774
accept myself and show myself some love and
compassion where it needed and um, but Not
368
00:43:40,914 --> 00:43:49,058
at least we don't need to react to everything
so I think just embracing stillness and And
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00:43:49,058 --> 00:43:54,460
actually reflecting on what is it that I need
right now so that I don't feel like I have
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00:43:54,620 --> 00:44:03,271
to to pick up and use or drink and I think
that can be really helpful in moving through
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00:44:03,571 --> 00:44:12,223
those really painful or challenging experiences
and moments and just breaking it down. really
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00:44:12,223 --> 00:44:21,806
is sometimes just one moment at a time and
all those moments add up. Yeah, they do add
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00:44:21,806 --> 00:44:28,878
up and they add up really quick. that was really
good too. thank you. Thank you. Of course.
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00:44:29,262 --> 00:44:36,442
And I mean, it's one of those things, too, that
recovery has all these different facets to
375
00:44:36,442 --> 00:44:44,142
it. And I mean, we're never really done recovering.
I think I think it's an ongoing process. And
376
00:44:44,142 --> 00:44:51,682
I love how you also said the whole mountain
metaphor instead of the elephant, because I
377
00:44:51,682 --> 00:44:54,802
don't know about you, but every time someone
says, how do you eat an elephant? It's like,
378
00:44:54,802 --> 00:44:59,263
well, yeah, you deviate up, you cook it, blah,
blah, blah. But that's the thing is like,
379
00:44:59,263 --> 00:45:03,305
I've never going to eat an elephant. Like, please
come on. Like, that's a bad metaphor. Now a
380
00:45:03,305 --> 00:45:10,048
mountain. I have done a mountain and it was
very interesting. So I can I can relate to.
381
00:45:10,048 --> 00:45:16,642
thank you. You're welcome. I'm a vegan. I'm
not telling anyone to eat an elephant. Fair
382
00:45:16,642 --> 00:45:24,066
enough. I don't blame you there. oh I just got
to say before we get into our little game show
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00:45:24,066 --> 00:45:28,446
segment, do you think that we could have you
back on the show in the future to see how your
384
00:45:28,446 --> 00:45:34,246
recovery has gone and possibly dive even deeper
into tarot and everything like that? Oh, I'd
385
00:45:34,246 --> 00:45:40,506
love to. I'd be honored. I'd love to come back.
Thank you. Of course. Thank you for just showing
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00:45:40,506 --> 00:45:47,346
up and everything like that. But it's one of
those things that I've always well, maybe not
387
00:45:47,346 --> 00:45:53,035
always. I've been trying to get people more
along my own. spiritual line to get on here
388
00:45:53,035 --> 00:45:57,800
and talk about recovery because it's a it's
an angle that not a lot of people talk about
389
00:45:57,940 --> 00:46:05,006
online or in general. So it's one of those things
like, hey, pagans or witches or non Christians,
390
00:46:05,006 --> 00:46:10,371
they can all recover to know it's one of those
things that you don't have to fall into something
391
00:46:10,371 --> 00:46:16,205
that you don't want to just to get healthy again.
completely agree. And I think it's good to
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00:46:16,205 --> 00:46:24,084
work with the energy work with the Um, sometimes
it's, it's, feel like it's been really helpful
393
00:46:24,084 --> 00:46:30,466
for me to be seen in my recovery process and
I'll come back anytime you'll have me. Awesome.
394
00:46:30,466 --> 00:46:37,309
Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Um,
but with that being said, I've got a little
395
00:46:37,309 --> 00:46:44,242
bit of a game if you want to play it real quick.
Yes, I do. I love games. All right. So everyone
396
00:46:44,242 --> 00:46:50,493
out there, our game today is going to be called
rapid fire ritual. I'm to provide Sarah with
397
00:46:50,493 --> 00:46:56,087
a common obstacle. It's going to be a feeling
or situation. And she has 20 to 30 seconds
398
00:46:56,087 --> 00:47:02,061
to assign a tarot card to that situation. And
then after that, provide a little micro ritual
399
00:47:02,061 --> 00:47:07,845
or something to help shift the energy back
to the positive flow of things. So are you
400
00:47:07,845 --> 00:47:16,100
ready? I'm ready. All right. So up first,
you're stuck in traffic and your anxiety is
401
00:47:16,100 --> 00:47:22,950
spiking. that's OK. Yes. I live in New York
City. don't drive anymore, but I am stuck in
402
00:47:22,950 --> 00:47:31,550
traffic. Let's see. Okay. Honestly, I would
say four of swords. like don't go to sleep,
403
00:47:31,550 --> 00:47:38,990
but take a little rest. If you're stuck in traffic.
I have been to LA quite a bit for work. So
404
00:47:38,990 --> 00:47:47,370
I do know about traffic. Sometimes you just
need to recenter and breathe and, but like,
405
00:47:47,650 --> 00:47:52,484
so that could be like an ace of swords, but
I'm going with four of swords. You just need
406
00:47:52,484 --> 00:47:58,948
some mental clarity. Like to be honest, where
do you need to be? Just give yourself enough
407
00:47:58,948 --> 00:48:05,643
time to get where you're going. Be realistic
with your time. Get a good night's sleep. I'm
408
00:48:05,643 --> 00:48:10,387
giving, the Virgo is giving you a lot to do
here, but like even in the moment, I think
409
00:48:10,387 --> 00:48:15,738
sometimes just closing your eyes, that could
be like a teeny little nap. and then reset
410
00:48:15,738 --> 00:48:21,958
and just be like, okay, it is what it is. the
traffic, you're not gonna be in traffic forever.
411
00:48:22,138 --> 00:48:29,658
That's gonna move, you know? Even if you're
in LA. Yeah, that actually makes me think about
412
00:48:29,658 --> 00:48:35,558
a lot of different things, because my job has
me drive a lot and I usually hit traffic points
413
00:48:35,558 --> 00:48:40,718
at the time where I'm really flustered. So that's
weird. I'm gonna have to do that next time.
414
00:48:41,078 --> 00:48:45,269
All right, good. Yeah, just go to bed. Just
go to sleep. This off, then the traffic goes
415
00:48:45,269 --> 00:48:55,383
away. All right, up next. You just had a triggering
phone call with a family member. I understand
416
00:48:55,383 --> 00:49:04,477
that. Let's see. Family's tough. Family dynamics
are really challenging. So this is what I would
417
00:49:04,477 --> 00:49:11,850
say for that. Okay. Is I actually am really
feeling the 10 of cups, which is such a beautiful
418
00:49:11,850 --> 00:49:22,377
card of a chosen family. And so I find that
if you just had a really difficult, uh triggering
419
00:49:22,377 --> 00:49:30,932
phone call with a family member, call someone
where you feel at peace in your heart and
420
00:49:30,932 --> 00:49:37,855
someone that you choose to have in your life
that feels like all of those good, sweet feelings
421
00:49:37,855 --> 00:49:43,847
of family. And to me, that feels like someone
who can really see you who really knows you
422
00:49:43,847 --> 00:49:50,301
on that heart level. And I think that when you
remember you're not alone and there's so much
423
00:49:50,301 --> 00:49:57,596
love in your life and in your world, it's a
beautiful anecdote to a triggering conversation
424
00:49:57,657 --> 00:50:04,771
such as being described here. Oh, I love that.
Thank you. It really goes back with the whole
425
00:50:04,771 --> 00:50:12,215
balance aspect. All right. What about feeling
imposter syndrome before a big present Before
426
00:50:12,215 --> 00:50:21,963
a big presentation. Oh, no, I love this. Oh,
before a big presentation or undeserving after
427
00:50:21,963 --> 00:50:31,191
the applause. Six of wands. OK, throw yourself
a parade. uh Celebrate your victories. And
428
00:50:31,191 --> 00:50:36,996
I feel like imposter syndrome. So understandable,
so relatable. feel like unless you're an egomaniac,
429
00:50:36,996 --> 00:50:42,269
everyone faces imposter syndrome. But I really
do think it's quite empowering to remember
430
00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:48,395
your wins. Like, and you don't need to be precious
about this. Like sometimes when you're feeling
431
00:50:48,395 --> 00:50:54,250
bad, getting out of bed is a win. Like putting
yourself together for the day is a win. It
432
00:50:54,250 --> 00:50:58,144
doesn't have to be something extraordinary.
I'd love for you to pick something extraordinary.
433
00:50:58,304 --> 00:51:03,949
But anytime that you felt proud of yourself,
hold that feeling and let it guide you into
434
00:51:03,949 --> 00:51:09,814
what's next because You are very deserving of
every opportunity that comes your way. If you're
435
00:51:09,814 --> 00:51:15,559
human and you're living in your existing, you've
been through a lot and you've won many times.
436
00:51:15,559 --> 00:51:21,914
This is your moment to recognize that and
let that energy carry you through that imposter
437
00:51:21,914 --> 00:51:32,163
syndrome. Okay. I love that one too. Thank
you. All right. Up next, you're craving a drink
438
00:51:32,163 --> 00:51:40,014
at 6 PM on a Friday. coworkers are going out
to celebrate. That's tough. So I'm going to
439
00:51:40,014 --> 00:51:45,594
say four of wands. Go out with other people
and celebrate. Yeah, there's like, there's
440
00:51:45,594 --> 00:51:51,054
always something to celebrate. Make up your
own occasion, make up your own holiday. I don't
441
00:51:51,054 --> 00:51:54,894
know, maybe coworkers hang out a little too
much. Like, do really need to hang out with
442
00:51:54,894 --> 00:52:01,154
your coworkers? Like, I get it. Sometimes you
do need to and like, but I don't know, Friday
443
00:52:01,154 --> 00:52:07,928
at 6pm. That's when things are really popping
off. So go find something else to do and celebrate
444
00:52:07,928 --> 00:52:12,460
that. You've had enough time with your coworkers.
You've been with them. I'm hearing Friday
445
00:52:12,460 --> 00:52:17,682
at 6 p.m. I'm imagining you've been with them
nine to five, Monday to Friday. Enough. Do
446
00:52:17,682 --> 00:52:23,825
something else. Celebrate that. Yeah, I like
that. Be a little independent. Yeah, it's
447
00:52:23,825 --> 00:52:30,267
always fun to be had. Yeah. All right. And
how about this last one that's going to bring
448
00:52:30,267 --> 00:52:36,492
us back to the recovery pass? You feel totally
disconnected from your own spiritual path today.
449
00:52:36,572 --> 00:52:42,395
Okay, I want to say two cards. Okay. So I would
say the High Priestess and the Ace of Pentacles.
450
00:52:42,395 --> 00:52:48,239
And so this is why the High Priestess is going
to invite that stillness and self-reflection,
451
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:55,293
that reconnection to your inner voice, your
intuition and the Ace of Pentacles, because
452
00:52:55,293 --> 00:52:59,985
it's just one step at a time. You have to start
somewhere. I always think of the Ace of Pentacles
453
00:53:00,225 --> 00:53:05,572
as the acorn. And then the ten of pentacles
as the oak tree. You don't get from the acorn
454
00:53:05,572 --> 00:53:10,734
to the oak tree overnight. You take one step
at a time. It's one little bit of growth at
455
00:53:10,734 --> 00:53:18,947
a time. And so I think like, it's like any
relationship. You have to give it time and
456
00:53:18,947 --> 00:53:25,070
devotion and nourishment for it to thrive. And
that includes our spiritual relationship. So
457
00:53:25,070 --> 00:53:32,694
create that space for devotion, reflection,
to hear your intuition. And because it's like,
458
00:53:32,694 --> 00:53:38,114
I know, I haven't had a burning bush moment.
I don't know about you Keegan, but like, that's
459
00:53:38,114 --> 00:53:44,034
I think quite rare. So we have to kind of cultivate
that relationship. And it's just, just start.
460
00:53:44,534 --> 00:53:49,394
So that's why I feel like and think of it as,
I don't know, to me, my spiritual journey,
461
00:53:49,474 --> 00:53:57,134
my spiritual path, that relationship in my life,
it's ongoing and ever evolving. And it it needs
462
00:53:57,134 --> 00:54:04,055
different nourishment at different times. And
And I'm in full acceptance of that. So I think
463
00:54:04,055 --> 00:54:13,748
those two cards are in alignment for a way
to solve that issue. Oh, I love that. That
464
00:54:13,748 --> 00:54:19,019
is some deep thinking and quick thinking too.
So thank you for that. Welcome. I love your
465
00:54:19,019 --> 00:54:24,871
questions. Of course. Oh, I did forget to
ask a little earlier on, where can people find
466
00:54:24,871 --> 00:54:33,238
you? You can find me all over the Internet.
I am. big fan of the internet. In moderation.
467
00:54:33,798 --> 00:54:40,798
I am on Instagram. I am Sarah Potter, Sarah
with an H. My website is I am sarah potter.com.
468
00:54:41,098 --> 00:54:47,938
You can book a reading with me and on either
I have an acuity with my calendar. I'm on sub
469
00:54:47,938 --> 00:54:56,758
stack, which is really fun. It feels like blogging
again. And I'm on cameo. Wherever the internet
470
00:54:56,758 --> 00:55:04,600
exists. So do I. That's awesome. uh It's one
of those things that we've got to use the internet
471
00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:11,283
as well. is a tool. It is a networking aspect
of things. I mean, whenever I think of the
472
00:55:11,283 --> 00:55:18,927
web, um ever since I've really learned more
about spiders and stuff there and the internet
473
00:55:18,927 --> 00:55:24,099
is a giant web. So we can create our own realities
through the internet. kind of interesting.
474
00:55:24,099 --> 00:55:29,898
cool. Spiders are so cool. They're a lot cooler
once you start to dive into the symbolism and
475
00:55:29,898 --> 00:55:35,118
you're not afraid of it anymore. But there's
still a little like don't want them to bite
476
00:55:35,118 --> 00:55:42,418
me. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's actually funny if the
spiders are like the one fear I'm not conquering.
477
00:55:42,718 --> 00:55:48,778
Like I've conquered all of them and like I love
spiders and I respect them. But I'm OK with
478
00:55:48,778 --> 00:55:57,029
having like one thing. I I think that's a healthy
fear. know. Thank you. Yeah, well, we developed
479
00:55:57,029 --> 00:56:02,695
fears of spiders for a reason, think. I agree.
Yeah, I don't think that that's one that's
480
00:56:02,695 --> 00:56:08,200
really taught. I think that that's one that
is kind of just innate in people because they're
481
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:12,153
little tiny things that like they could bite
you and kill you. So you got to be on the lookout.
482
00:56:12,434 --> 00:56:18,840
Yes. Well, I really appreciate your perspective
on that because I think it's very validating.
483
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:24,227
So thank you. Of course. I just got to say
thank you for validating everyone out there
484
00:56:24,227 --> 00:56:29,659
today that has wondered if they can get sober
and be on a recovery journey without having
485
00:56:29,659 --> 00:56:37,843
to go down any other predetermined path. So,
oh, oh and they can find your book on imsarapodded.com
486
00:56:37,843 --> 00:56:44,175
too, right? Yes, and on my Instagram, it's available
wherever books are sold, Silver Magic, Using
487
00:56:44,175 --> 00:56:49,758
Tarot and Ritual, and Your Journey Away from
Drinking out on Running Press. Awesome. Well,
488
00:56:49,758 --> 00:56:58,495
Sarah, We'll see you in the future. Oh, I
did forget this last bit for uh for your amazing
489
00:56:58,495 --> 00:57:05,539
work in the Rapid fire ritual we are giving
you the title of the architect of the luminous
490
00:57:05,539 --> 00:57:14,172
path for retrieving sanity. So Thank you I
receive it amazing and is there anything that
491
00:57:14,172 --> 00:57:21,512
you'd like to leave the audience with for this
wonderful Sunday afternoon? Mmm. Ooh. I encourage
492
00:57:21,512 --> 00:57:30,017
you to be curious. If something's lighting
you up, follow it. Mmm. Ooh. And then if it's
493
00:57:30,017 --> 00:57:34,300
a little scary, that's probably the sign that
you need to take a little bit of a leap of
494
00:57:34,300 --> 00:57:44,488
faith. Yes, I love that. If it's scary, do
it now. uh Fair enough. Right? Yep. All right.
495
00:57:44,488 --> 00:57:48,581
Well, with that being said, everyone out there,
thank you for listening to Retrieving Sanity
496
00:57:48,641 --> 00:57:54,754
on WDJY 99.1 FM. And this has been Keegan.
This has been Sarah. And we'll see y'all in
497
00:57:54,754 --> 00:57:59,837
the future. And don't forget to try to love
yourself, love others if you can, but you gotta
498
00:57:59,837 --> 00:58:04,880
love yourself first. And if you're having a
mental health crisis, call 988. And if you're
499
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:10,553
in the LGBTQ plus community, that was the Trevor
Project up in Canada. And we'll see y'all
500
00:58:10,553 --> 00:58:16,146
in the future. And that being said, much love.
Bye!