00:00:51
S1: Hello and welcome to Focal Point here on Vision Australia Radio Online via radio.org, via Radio Digital, through the Community Radio Plus app. Look for Vision Australia Radio as well as your favourite podcast or streaming service, and through the Reading Radio Network. Peter Greco, on behalf of Philip van der veer saying thank you so much for making time to tune in. We really do appreciate that this program coming to you from Ghana Land come to you very shortly. We'll meet Casey Howard, who's just launched her book about the naughtiest guide dog. What is it about? I believe it's available in your preferred format. So very accessible. Casey coming up very soon. Then speak to Robert Sims. He's the leader of the Greens in the upper house in South Australia, talking about smart glasses and some thoughts that Robert has. Might also ask him about some of the cuts to the NDIS and the impact. How's Robert reading that as far as his office phone goes? Then we'll catch up with Meera Kim and Helen Shapiro from the Bella Music Foundation. They've got a competition now. If you're really quick, you'll be able to enter. If you've got your music prepared, you'll be able to enter and there's a tremendous prize at the end of it. We'll share that information with you. And Phil Vandepeer, co-founder and co-presenter for Focal Point, will join us. Always lots to talk about. I think Phil's pretty keen to speak about smart glasses. For the grand final was on last weekend, the AFL Grand final, but the big event was the launch of author Extraordinaires book. Casey, Hyde and Casey is on the line. Casey, welcome.
00:02:32
S2: Hello. How are you going? Been great day.
00:02:34
S1: Yes, it's a good day for me too, because I get to talk to you now. How did the launch go?
00:02:40
S2: Well. The naughtiest guide dog book was, um, promoted down in my local suburb of Altona in Melbourne. And, uh, the weather was pretty atrocious, actually, for a book launch. Um, there was some going to be some soggy books on the day, so we had to change location, but everything turned out really well. I really appreciate the, the support from my friends and, um, even the Surf Life Club allowed us into the Surf Life Club for the event. So it was really great.
00:03:06
S1: Yeah. Well, the title of your book kind of almost says it all, doesn't it?
00:03:10
S2: Yeah. The naughtiest guide dog. Yeah. Um, so yeah, it started off with, uh, uh, my old guide dog Bridget, who was, um, you know, my guide dog for nearly like ten years working, but, um, you know, retired with me and, uh, she basically caused me a lot of stress and grief over the lifetime that she hanged out with me. So all these stories kind of collected into a book.
00:03:33
S1: And I believe in a sense, this is a tribute to Bridget. And did you kind of, come to the idea or launch it close to the anniversary of her passing?
00:03:42
S2: No. Not really. It was actually a bit of a deadline due to making the book the most accessible book for a book launch, so I really put a lot of effort into formatting the naughtiest guide dog book to have an audio book and a Braille book, and also an e-book and a physical book. So there was a lot of formatting, um, books to be organised for the book launch. So I basically followed the deadline of the formatting team. And when the formatting was all done, I could actually get the book launched together. And it's spring. So I thought spring would be great. And then it was a bit ironic because, you know, the grand final had two teams from different states, so everyone had time to actually come to my book launch. So they really enjoyed actually having something to do because they all didn't know what to do if no Melbourne team was in the grand final.
00:04:30
S1: Yeah, well, Brisbane and Fremantle cooperated on your behalf. Now tell us about the book. That's not the full title. The Naughtiest Dog, is it? There's a little bit more to it as well.
00:04:39
S2: Yeah. So this is the first series of the naughtiest Guide Dog. So it's actually a series. And the first book that I've written is called The Hungriest Guide Guide Dog. So this book is all about how hungry our guide dogs can be and how they can take advantage of our blindness. Um, because every time, you know, we go out and about, we trust our guide dogs to get us to our destination. But the hungriest guide dog basically took me places where she wanted to go to before I could get to my destination. So yeah, it's been quite entertaining. All these memories flew back into my head and, and yeah, it was really nice to have a team of friends actually get me to a point. It could be published now.
00:05:14
S1: I've been doing this program for a while, and one of the things I've learnt is it's quite an in-depth process to match up a handler with their guide dog, because obviously they want it to work as best as possible. And I'm told that the traits of the guide dog match the owner, or vice versa. So naughty and hungry. There's that kind of back view.
00:05:32
S2: I hope so, because I am always hungry, perpetually hungry. And I'm a bit cheeky. But with Bridget, she actually got rejected by, um, three other blind, um, handlers when she matched with me. So I think she already had the naughty streak in her before she was matched with me. And I liked her ambitious way. She was actually very fast. She was a very fast walking dog and I like to do sports. So we did parkrun a lot together and it built our bond up because we both like being outdoors. So I think we we did have a good match. Uh, but she did also take advantage of my blindness a lot. So, um, we had some funny, funny moments together.
00:06:07
S1: Now, this is one of the things that you did, I guess, is you kind of touched on, you collated some of the incidences over the years, and they have obviously come in very handy in terms of your record keeping to put them into a book.
00:06:18
S2: Well, Bridget passed away last year in June, and the grief really got to me. Um, there was a movie called The Barbie Movie that came out last year, and there was this one scene of Barbie being paralyzed by, um, finding out that she's, you know, plastic. Fantastic. So I sort of felt like that last year and I didn't know how to get out of my, um, grief. Like stress is. So a friend said, like, go and draw or paint. And I'm like, well, I can't see to draw or paint. So how do I manage my grief? And someone said, hey, let's write down stories about what you did to you. And I was like, okay, let's make a book. Um, so yeah, that's how the book kind of came together.
00:06:53
S1: Terrific. Now, how did you actually do the book? Because, Casey, you are blind, but you don't use Braille.
00:07:00
S2: Well, I went out, you know, no, I don't, I don't know Braille because I was a massage therapist for 17 years. So my fingers actually don't work at all with um, touching with, um, texture anymore. So I have trouble filling the bumps, but I know Braille is really important in our community. I think it's a really lovely language to have. And watching people do it, like read books with their hands is quite emotionally. I got triggered in the, in the launch on the weekend when watching someone use their hands read my book, I was like, wow, this is, this is great. This is what they want. This is what they deserve to be in a normal book launch with everyone else and having a Braille book, you know, provided in the launch. It allowed them to enjoy their hands as much as us joining, you know, enjoying our eyes and reading a book. So I learned a lot in the book launch. Uh, so the book sort of came along through, uh, looking at the different formats of the book and trying to work out, um, you know, what will be beneficial for, for this book should be come together. So there was a lot of trial and error, a lot of providers reaching out to work out how to solve the commercial printing of a Braille book. But it can be done. It can be done because I've done it. So it was hard work, but it can be done.
00:08:07
S1: Trailblazer. Now, what about in terms of the logistics or mechanics of actually doing it? What did you use? I'm thinking in terms of, uh, a computer or a Mac or your iPhone. How did you kind of, uh, go from an idea in your head to, uh, work on paper?
00:08:21
S2: Well, I went, uh, looking at my photos and I sort of zoom in really big, like huge to actually see the pictures. And, uh, sometimes I had to use search like, you know, black dog at beach or black dog at Bunnings and, uh, ban all these pictures that that were Bridget's pictures to put into the book. And of course, I've got a few support people in my life, so they sort of help me, um, align the pictures with the, the book stories. And then I went on to my AI friend and AI has become a really beneficial access point for us in the community. And yeah, got, uh, the book photos converted into cartoon. So I just basically asked AI to turn them into cartoons. And then if they did something a bit silly, I had to readjust the AI, um, feedback. And then eventually the cartoon picture came along to relate back to the story. And then I got some friends to, um, what would you like, uh, edit the book so the pictures would relate to the stories and then make it more appealing to the people who can see. So I sort of did a trial and error of a few books and took them to a few friends, and they took the books to the schools, and they actually did a lot of trial and error before the book was actually like formally, like printed. And yeah, it was a lot of, um, effort to get that book, do a reality type of thing because you have to.
00:09:32
S1: Put, as you said, AI can be a very good assistant. I believe there were a few, uh, shall we say, funny, a funny outcomes of, uh, you giving AI some instructions as to what you wanted. When you talk about the, the cartoon outcome.
00:09:45
S2: The first time we got the cartoons kind of generating the, like the dog was missing its eye or the ear. And sometimes the tables had four legs or eight legs, and I didn't see any of that. So I had to get friends to tell me what the AI was doing to my pictures. So I wouldn't look silly in the in the formal book. And it was hard work. And it it's really fun actually to work with AI to actually get that image back to the way that you want it to be, to portray a story, because.
00:10:11
S1: I was pretty new. So I guess, you know, you're pretty, uh, up with it, if I could put it that way, to be able to use it to your benefit because, you know, five years ago, certainly ten years ago, that probably wouldn't have been able to happen.
00:10:23
S2: Well, when I first got into this whole illustration slash like producing a book, it costs about $5,000 to get an illustrator to draw the pictures of a book. And that's a lot of money for someone who's, you know, self-publishing. So I couldn't afford $5,000 for 12, you know, pictures of a dog. And some people didn't even know how to draw a dog. So for me, I was really concerned about, you know, the illustrator drawing the dog for the book. So I was more reliable because it was actually coming from Bridget herself through the photo. So Bridget's still helping me even though she passed away last year. So it's been great to have so much silly moments with her.
00:10:57
S1: It's a lovely acknowledgement. Now, I've been lucky enough to hear snippets of your book, so thank you for giving me that privilege. And it's, uh, very well, uh, narrated, uh, if I say so myself. It's it's a good person you've chosen to narrate.
00:11:10
S2: The audiobook came along as a bit like there's a lovely, uh, man in our community called, uh, Tony Urico. He does, um, recording studio in Yarraville. And I reached out to him and he's a music producer and he said, I've never done an audiobook before. Let's, let's give it a go. So I spent about a month with, um, lovely Tony, and we jumped in the recording studio and I got my swim club, came along and I knew one of the ladies had a really nice voice, and I said, have you you're a kindergarten teacher and you read books out all the time to kids. Would you record your voice? And she said, yes, this is my dream come true. I've always wanted this moment and thanks for giving me this moment to read out a book. Tony and I got together and we found out we both had, um, sad stories. Tony's guide dog passed away in December, so this was all like basically processing grief together to, um, laugh at all the funny moments our dogs, you know, brought to our lives.
00:11:57
S1: And you want to mention the person's name who did actually do the narrating.
00:12:00
S2: Yeah. So Kelly Pemberton is her name. She's a lovely swimming athlete and she's a kindergarten teacher. And Kelly is an amazing narrator. So she definitely had it in her, uh, when it came to narrating a book. And hopefully she'll do the next one. So it becomes a bit more. Yeah, a bit of a pattern.
00:12:16
S1: You will make her famous yet? Casey.
00:12:17
S2: Yeah. She was she. And hopefully she'll become a famous narrator. She said that she would like to read more books. So if anyone else has got books, reach out to me and yeah, maybe. Get connected.
00:12:26
S1: I catch you on a serious note. I guess we have been serious and sort of light hearted, but it must have been a little bit tough. You kind of touched on it. Sure. Sharing the grief with Tony. You know, I guess when you're going back over some memories and stuff, grief is part of that process as well.
00:12:42
S2: Yeah. I think grief is really part of, you know, the transitional gap of, yeah, saying goodbye to your loyal friend, to working out how to be independent again and then having you know, your name on the list or, you know, thinking, even considering, you know, getting another guard dog to help you out in your life. So yeah, there was a lot of leaky eyes, um, with even looking at the images too, talking to Tony about our dogs and what they've done for us and even just mentioning, you know, Bridget at my book launch, it really got me going. So I think you just have to show that you're human and everyone goes through this, um, grief period.
00:13:19
S1: Well, probably better to let it out than to hold it in. And that's probably not a very healthy thing to do now. Are you hoping to put proceeds towards a certain cause? As far as this book goes, and maybe future books go?
00:13:31
S2: Yeah. I, uh, been working on a project with, um, guided eyes. I think I met Sharon, and, uh, we're basically putting a charity together called the Bridget retired Guide Dog legacy. And it's basically a nice way to help other retired guide dogs have their dignity and their, um, their needs met through, um, fundraising. So going to the book launch on Saturday was basically a celebration to opening up the charity so we can start helping all the retired guide dogs that do need help with their, you know, hydrotherapy needs or their medication needs. When they do get older and they do, you know, not have their harness on, on their back, they're like looked after by the community. So I'm looking forward to seeing where this charity takes me. And I think it's going to be a lot of fun.
00:14:15
S1: It's a really good point, isn't it? Because they can do eight, nine, ten great years of service, but that doesn't mean their life is is over, per se.
00:14:23
S2: Yeah. And it's really tricky because there's a bit of a gap. There's, you know, you fall off the NDIS with the guide dog because they're not working anymore. And then the pet insurance is too high. The, the, you know, the rates are too high. Um, after ten years old. So there's no real financial gap to help them over ten. So if we can get a charity together such as a guide dog legacy together, um, hoping people will reach out and I get to hear their stories and get to help their dogs and make makes me happy because like these old dogs have like literally sacrificed their life to keep us independent. So why not give them the hydrotherapy and the medication and, you know, the relaxed life sitting on the couch or a bed, you know, bed when they get older and a bit more fragile.
00:15:05
S1: Well, we all want to be treated well when we get older, don't we? Well, you probably don't think about that because you're so young, but, uh, I, I certainly probably in that camp. Now, what about in terms of the future books, have you have you got some ideas for for future titles or is that a bit of a secret? What's happening there?
00:15:20
S2: Casey at the moment. We, um, just been working on the second book. Actually, it's mostly about naughty guide dog antics with the what has happened to me over the last few years. But there's a few of my friends who also gave me some great ideas. So currently the second books in in process. And another thing like learning how to produce a book is really important. It's actually a really tricky situation. Like you have to get the Bakos eye, then you have to go and get formatting checks multiple times. So the editing is great. Then the printing is different. So you have to format the book to be printed, and then you have to get the providers that can print the books. So this is all trial and error. And I'm hoping the second book will be much easier.
00:16:01
S1: If people want to get hold of the book. How can we do that?
00:16:03
S2: Yeah. So currently we haven't got an online shop because we're developing an online shop. But you can reach out to me through my email address, it's casey@guided.org dot OUCASEYHYDE at GoDaddy. So g u I'd edeyes.org ORG dot a u. And the send me an email. Uh, and yeah, definitely can order a book through me. I'm hoping to get the online shop ready by Christmas. And yeah, hopefully there'll be an online access point too.
00:16:40
S1: Thanks for speaking to us, Casey.
00:16:41
S2: Thanks, Peter. You're so lovely. Thank you.
00:16:43
S1: Casey. Hi there. Author of the book The Naughtiest Guide Dog. This one, the first one is the hungriest, naughtiest guide dog. So if you'd like a copy, we'll put the case's details up with our show notes. And as always, you can always call us here at the radio station. Robert Simms is the leader of the Greens in the South Australian upper house, and I'm really pleased to welcome to the program, Rob, first time we've spoken. So welcome and thank you so much for your time.
00:17:08
S3: Thanks very much, Peter, for the opportunity. Great to talk to you and your listeners.
00:17:12
S1: Now, Rob, there's been a lot of discussion in the last few weeks in particular regarding smart glasses. And you've got some thoughts and maybe going to introduce some legislation regarding these.
00:17:22
S3: Yeah. That's right. I've had lots of members in the community contact me about smart glasses. They're really concerned, I think, around the potential impact this has on individual privacy. And, you know, the potential for people to be filmed against their knowledge and without their permission in public places, places like swimming pools, changing rooms at gyms, uh, playgrounds, childcare centers and schools, all of these places. I think, you know, high risk when it comes to people being filmed for obvious reasons. And that's why I'm introducing a bill to ban smart glasses from those locations. But critically, the bill does contain exemptions for people with disability and of course, with vision impairment, because I do recognize that this technology can be life changing for people with disability.
00:18:16
S1: Want to come back to that in a second. But you want to ban them from being someone even walking into, say, a swimming pool area with with the glasses?
00:18:24
S3: Yeah. That's right. So swimming pools at childcare centers, playgrounds, schools, a lot of local councils are moving into imposing bans. And I think it's difficult for councils to do that at their level. So what we're suggesting is a statewide coordinated approach. I've written to the leaders of all of the different political parties here in South Australia asking their views, and I plan to introduce a private member's bill next month. But I am also, of course, listening to the views of the community around this.
00:18:56
S1: How do you see it working, though? Because I guess, you know, it's one thing to have a rule or a law, but it's another thing to kind of enforce it.
00:19:03
S3: Yeah. Look, it's a difficult one to enforce. And to be honest, one of the things that my colleagues have been pushing in Canberra is a national ban on this technology to provide for an opportunity for the law to catch up. But, you know, failing that, really it's over to the state parliaments to to look at it. So what we're suggesting is that there be a penalty of up to $10,000 for people to wear these glasses in those locations. In terms of how it would work in practice, it really gives security guards or indeed police, law enforcement a bit of extra power in terms of being able to go up to somebody if they suspect that they're wearing those glasses and to ask them a few questions.
00:19:46
S1: Now, I guess one of the things that's happened over the last few weeks, let alone days, almost, is the fact that a kind of a sort of fairly inexpensive, uh, brand, if you like, or an expensive product has come onto the market and very easily accessible through, you know, your sort of conventional retail shop, I guess in the days of yore, not so many days of yore, but, uh, you know, there are more specialized for people who might be blind or have low vision, for example.
00:20:12
S3: Well, this is and this is the big problem. You know, they were specialized technology. Now they're really widely available. You can get them for less than 100 bucks at Kmart. Um, and so that means this technology is just potentially falling into the hands of people who might have more nefarious intentions. And, you know, you don't want to see people being filmed against their will and that material being streamed online or shared in online platforms and that kind of thing. And obviously, there's real risks when we're talking about children as well in settings like playgrounds and swimming pools and the like. So that's why I'm suggesting that we have a ban. We've set the penalty at a fairly high level, but the hope is that that would act as a deterrent. So really take away some of the social licence of these glasses. And when it comes to them being in key public locations.
00:21:00
S1: So I guess to say for a person who is blind or you said as well, who's blind or has low vision, that can be really, really important part of their independence. But I guess for members of the general public, it's almost like a fun thing or a toy. So I guess you're saying the restrictions as to where they can use it in those sort of settings?
00:21:18
S3: Yeah. But recognizing that these penalties wouldn't apply to people with a disability. And in my draft legislation, I've made it clear that there would be an exemption if somebody has a disability. And I've been talking to the attorney General's department about how that might be managed in practice. But I guess it's a bit like people with disability that might be able to use designated parking. People accept that if you've got a disability that you might need to have accessible car parking available. Likewise, I think people in the community accept that if someone has a disability, they might need to use technology to help them manage that. And I totally understand that smart glasses are going to be really helpful for a lot of people. The concern here, though, is people that might be using them for the wrong intent, and that's what we're trying to crack down on.
00:22:07
S1: So this be a situation where, uh, you know, it's almost like a you know, your word is your Honor, if you like it, you're kind of relying on people's honesty. I, I rock up to a swimming pool. Yes. I'm a person who's blind. Well, we believe you through your go type of thing.
00:22:20
S3: Or and this is something that I need to consult with the government around, around how that would work in practical terms and get some advice on how that exemption would work. So we're trying to work through that, but the intention is to make it very clear that, you know, people who have a disability or indeed need to use this technology, and there's a public interest in them being able to access the technology that that would be exempt.
00:22:44
S1: Rob, how does the private member's bill set up kind of work? I mean, often we hear about, you know, government or opposition introducing legislation. It's kind of voted along party lines or discussed and then goes to the upper house, etcetera, etcetera. In the situation that you're proposing, how does that kind of work, and what kind of priority does that take with other legislation that the government and or opposition and indeed anyone in Parliament might have?
00:23:07
S3: It's a really good question, Peter. So on Wednesdays in the state parliament, we have private members day. Any member of Parliament can put forward a piece of legislation and bring it forward, and that's what I plan to do with this. But of course, getting it through the lower house is the challenge then, and that's why I've been engaging with the government. I've had some positive discussions with the Attorney General's Department about this legislation. But as I said earlier, I've also written to the opposition. I've written to One Nation. I'm keen to hear everybody's views in the Parliament and see if we can get this balance right. It's really about striking the right balance between this technology and the access to the technology and, of course, community privacy.
00:23:44
S1: You sense that there's a willingness to do something about it. I mean, I guess the problem is fairly obvious now, isn't it? I mean, a few months ago, as I keep referring to, perhaps it wasn't quite as well known or people weren't kind of aware of it as they might have been, but it's become very prevalent over the, over the last, uh, recent times.
00:24:01
S3: Yeah, that's a concern. It's really a case of, I think, technology developing at a pace that is really out of step with the Parliament and indeed the community's expectations more broadly.
00:24:11
S1: And your sense of what the Attorney General slash, you know, government might be thinking?
00:24:17
S3: Oh, look, I, I think, um, to be fair, they're considering the detail of it. So, um, no, I haven't got any firm commitments from anybody yet, but I think there's a recognition that we probably need to do something in this space and I'll keep working through that.
00:24:29
S1: So it works that you introduced it in the upper house because that's where you are. Then if it's passed there, it goes down to the lower house. And that's right. The process proceeds from there.
00:24:37
S3: That's right. Yeah. To get a bill through the upper house, I need to have the support of the government or the Liberal opposition and One Nation. So they're the pathways for getting a bill through the upper House. But to become law, it needs approval of both Houses of Parliament. So really, you've got to get the government on board.
00:24:54
S1: And time is of the essence in a sense, isn't it, because these things are moving so quickly that I guess that's part of the issue. Rob, a broader question, if you like, is that, you know, technology has moved so quickly and in a sense, you know, it's pretty hard for legislation and legislators to keep up with it.
00:25:08
S3: That's right. And that's why my colleagues have been pushing for a moratorium in Canberra to say, well, let's actually work through all of the privacy considerations. Let's make sure we've got the balance right. But, you know, the federal government seem to be reluctant to do that. And that's why I'm looking at what I can do at my level.
00:25:22
S1: Rob, before you go, I know, of course, there's been a lot of discussion regarding the National Disability Insurance Scheme and some of the changes that are legislated and maybe being rolled out. Um, I know you're a state member of Parliament, so maybe not directly impacted, but does your office get many calls regarding issues with the NDIS?
00:25:42
S3: Yeah. We have had, um, a lot of calls from constituents about this. And I think a lot of people in the community are concerned. I'm really worried about families that are going to miss out on support as a result of the government's NDIS changes. I know my colleagues in Canberra have been doing a lot of work on this and really opposing what the Albanese government is doing, something I'm absolutely aware of too, as a local member.
00:26:04
S1: I mean, your counterpart, if you like. Uh, Jordon Steele-john has been very, very outspoken. Some of his, uh, language and some of the things he said about, uh, you know, blood on hands and maybe causing deaths. I mean, that that's pretty, uh, pretty powerful stuff. And I mean, you know, he is a person living with the disability and obviously hearing from a lot of people that would be in that position or those sort of positions.
00:26:25
S3: Absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, Jordan, somebody who has lived experience with disability and is really a fantastic advocate. He's got lots of really strong community connections. And, you know, I've been hearing similar from people in the community that are really worried about what's going to happen here. And I think fundamentally, the government is really losing sight of what the NDIS was set up for. It was to provide people living with disability with, you know, level of autonomy and dignity, self-determination. And now to start whittling it back really is quite galling. And it's a question of priorities. You know, why isn't the government ensuring that the big corporations pay their fair share of tax to fund these sort of essential services.
00:27:05
S1: Some of the whittling back is sort of in areas that I don't think they quite realize how important they are. The the social interaction, the community involvement, and kind of the the impact upon that on people with disabilities. If they're, you know, quote unquote, you know, stuck at home even more.
00:27:20
S3: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think, you know, we saw during Covid the huge social impact that can that can have the detrimental social effects of being isolated for prolonged periods of time. And a lot of people with disability, these supports are really vital. So yeah, I'm disappointed with what the government's doing and we're continuing to monitor it.
00:27:38
S1: Yes. Well, certainly if I had a dollar for every time a person with a disability during Covid talked about people are complaining about being isolated, you know, you should be in, in our shoes as we have been all our lives. Uh, you know, that that's the kind of that's our world all the time. So, uh, yeah, I kind of gave people a bit of perspective.
00:27:54
S3: Absolutely. Yeah, I can understand that.
00:27:57
S1: Rob. Good luck with the registration. We'd love to keep in touch with you on how long could it take to pass through where the private members bill stage and then get to the lower house.
00:28:07
S3: Thanks, Peter. Look, I'm hoping we can get some movement on this by the end of the year. But of course, I'm wanting to consult and work through some of the details that we've talked about. So absolutely, we'll keep doing that.
00:28:15
S1: All right. You're based at Parliament House in South Australia. Not that I want to give you extra work, Rob, but if people have got some thoughts, I'm sure they can go through and your staff can speak to them.
00:28:24
S3: Absolutely. And just to reiterate, you know, Peter, I understand that this technology is really important for people that are living with disability. And I also understand that the concerns around, you know, people being stigmatised for using this technology. And that's not what I'm trying to do. But this is really about saying there's some locations where we don't want people to have unfettered access to this technology. And, you know, I listed them earlier, but recognising that there are reasons why people might need to and therefore we'd have exemptions. But setting a general rule to say, well, if someone doesn't have a disability, then they probably don't need to be using smart glasses at a swimming pool or in a changing room, that kind of thing.
00:29:04
S1: Rob, thanks for your time, I appreciate that.
00:29:05
S3: Thanks, Peter. Good to chat to you.
00:29:07
S1: That's Sir Robert Sims there. Robert is the leader in the upper house for the Greens here in South Australia with some interesting thoughts regarding smart glasses. So we'll stand by for more. As far as the legislative part of that goes, in the next year, well, maybe next few months. Let's meet a couple of guests from the Music Foundation. They've got a competition happening. You might be interested in joining it. Let's speak to their CEO, Mr. Kim. Mira. Lovely to meet you. Thank you for your time.
00:29:33
S4: Hi, this is Kim. I'm the CEO of Bella Music Foundation. Nice meeting you.
00:29:38
S1: And we also meet the artistic director, Helen Shapiro. Helen, welcome to you too.
00:29:44
S5: Thank you so much, Peter. Thank you for having us.
00:29:47
S1: Um, Mira, start with you. You're the CEO talked a bit about the Bella Music Foundation. Who are you and what do you do?
00:29:53
S4: Yes. Um, Parallel Music Foundation is a US based non-profit organization dedicated to empowering blind and visually impaired musicians around the world through music education, performance opportunities and career development. BMF was founded in 2018. Our major programs include international music competitions, concerts and festivals for blind musicians, as well as the BMF Youth Orchestra, which brings blind, visually impaired and sighted young musicians together. One of our biggest achievements was holding the 2025 PMF International Music Festival for the blind at Unesco headquarters in Paris. It was an official event for the 20th anniversary of the 2005 Unesco convention.
00:30:52
S1: Good.
00:30:52
S4: Tastic. Yes. Um, through all of these programs, our goal is to create meaningful opportunities for blind musicians to develop their artistry and build a successful careers in music.
00:31:08
S1: And borders are no barrier. It doesn't matter where you are, you can kind of be part of it. Yeah. Uh, Helen, tell us a little bit about your role and then we'll talk about the competition. But what's your role, Helen?
00:31:19
S5: Sure. Um, I am the artistic director where I do, um, you know, oversee various programs that I just outlined. But, you know, Meera is a fearless leader of Music Foundation and the founder and the visionary behind it. So I think my role is very simple. Um, I make sure that that vision and the mission of Bella Music Foundation is lived out in our concerts, in our competitions, in any other ways that we support musicians who are blind and visually impaired. No matter where they are in their journey, um, whether young, uh, student who's just starting out, uh, or, uh, a very seasoned musician who's looking for the next step in their musical careers.
00:32:06
S1: And when you talk about music, is it, uh, music and singing as well?
00:32:10
S2: Yeah.
00:32:10
S5: So, you know, um, our BMF international music competition that we're talking about is a really great example of the scope of, um, and the, the type of musicians that we support. And this competition is an international platform, um, specifically created for musicians who are blind and visually impaired in the classical and the jazz, uh, traditions, um, in all instruments, including voice. And it's open to any musicians who are, um, in the ages of 10 to 30 years old from all around the world. So the scope is pretty large this year. Also, we have a category for musicians, uh, to submit their original composition. So that's also an additional aspect to this year's competition, which makes the 2026 competition a little bit more unique. And also what's going. Yeah. What's involved. Yeah. No no no no problem. And um, so we do this all completely online. So the application process is online and we have three different divisions, uh, for the competition. So junior division, uh, is for musicians, um, in the ages of 10 to 14. And that's only classical um, category. And then the young artist division ages 15 to 20 years old. That's both classical and jazz categories, emerging artists division, which is the most advanced, um, uh, category, uh, musicians, uh, ages between 21 and 30 can submit their application. And that's also, uh, for classical and jazz categories. And we initial screening is through video, uh, performing video, uh, submission. And then once they are, um, named finalists on October 12th, we will invite the participants, uh, to have a live Zoom audition, uh, before a set of juries. So, um, and then the winners will be announced on October 22nd.
00:34:21
S1: Okay. Sounds fantastic. So, uh, the, the first, uh, kind of initial thing is you kind of put up your submission, if you like, or you put in your entry and then that's kind of judged and then you go to finalists and then they perform live before the, uh, the judges, right?
00:34:36
S5: So then once, um, all three categories have been judged and we name the finalists. I mean, I'm sorry, the winners this year is very exciting. There is a cash prize as always. However, I think what's more meaningful for these musicians might be for them to come all the way to New York City and take the stage at the famed Carnegie Hall while Recital Hall. And if you've never performed there, this could be your official Carnegie Hall debut.
00:35:05
S6: Oh, wow. That is priceless.
00:35:08
S1: Money couldn't buy that opportunity.
00:35:10
S7: Exactly. Exactly. So imagine.
00:35:12
S5: Imagine what that experience could.
00:35:14
S7: Mean.
00:35:15
S5: For young musicians. Um, you know, on that, uh, performing on that world, uh, famous, uh, celebrated stage. Yeah.
00:35:23
S1: Fantastic. Myra, how have you gone about kind of organizing this and, for example, getting such a prize? You must have worked pretty hard to make this all come together.
00:35:33
S7: Yeah. Of course.
00:35:35
S4: Lots of work.
00:35:38
S7: She does not sleep.
00:35:39
S6: No.
00:35:40
S1: I can believe that. Uh, well, even with the time differences, you guys are putting yourselves out so much to speak to us, which I appreciate. Myra, why did you set it up? What? What happened that you thought I want to set something like this up. What kind of happened that, uh, that that motivated you to do this?
00:35:56
S4: Oh, you mean Bella Music Foundation?
00:35:59
S1: Yeah. What happened before 2018 that you thought, I'm going to set this foundation up? Well, what was the trigger point? What was the thing that sparked it?
00:36:08
S4: Yeah, actually, I started it Bella Music Foundation in 2018 with a strong sense of calling and purpose. Um, I had a clear vision to create more opportunities for blind musicians because I met, you know, some, um, other really talented blind musicians, but they didn't really have, you know, a chance to be, you know, um, presented better, you know, and internationally. So I thought, you know, um, we, we would build a place where they could receive this high level music education, you know, perform and grow as artists.
00:36:45
S1: Because that's the thing, isn't it? Helen. There's a lot of talented people out there, but it's getting that opportunity. It's getting, you know, like you might say, getting your foot in the door, that that that's the kind of a trick with something like this, isn't it? Getting that, getting that start.
00:36:59
S7: Absolutely.
00:37:00
S5: And, you know, at all levels of musicianship in their growth, right? So, you know, Music Foundation working with a very laser focused vision of, uh, creating more performance opportunities, uh, whether it's through competition or mentorship or artistic collaboration. Um, we work really hard to make sure that we remove any barriers that they may experience and create a more inclusive musical community. And I think we all benefit from doing that. And also, you know, 1st May feel a little bit more isolated, um, you know, if you are, um, musician who's visually impaired and the way you learn music might be different from the rest of the community who sighted. And so we want our musicians who come across Bella Music Foundation to know that there are. They are part of a musical community, a worldwide that really believes in their potential, in their talent and their dedication, and really want them to succeed.
00:38:02
S1: There are people that have entered over the time, any kind of countries that you've been surprised at, that you've received submissions or entries from people from countries that maybe hadn't even heard of?
00:38:15
S7: Yeah, we had a several, you know.
00:38:17
S4: Different countries. But I remember South Africa, um, you know, once we had South Africa and Ecuador, you know, so many different countries, you know, Taiwan, you know, Vietnam, South Korea, China, you know, you cannot really count how many, you know, countries you get from. Yeah. Interesting.
00:38:40
S1: So you're hoping for a big flood of people before the cut off date, 1st of October.
00:38:45
S7: Yeah, we hope so. something. Yeah.
00:38:47
S1: So yeah. And then from there, we, we kind of, I guess they get a short list and then the, the people get notified and they perform before the, before the judges who. Helen, who are the judges? Uh, are they, um, people that, uh, kind of appointed independently who kind of judges this.
00:39:05
S7: Yes.
00:39:06
S5: So, you know, for the competition, Peter, you may be aware that we don't usually, uh, disclose the names of the judges right beforehand, just in case.
00:39:16
S7: Right. Uh, however, they are.
00:39:20
S5: Uh, professors at, uh, at the highest level conservatories, uh, in New York. Um, you know, New York City has many, as you can imagine. And, um, and, uh, various, uh, musicians around the world, but also people who are themselves, uh, visually impaired, uh, sit on our board. Uh, and they are part of our advisory board and people who really inform us so that we can, you know, go about doing these kind of competitions properly. And so we have a big, large community of wonderful people working together and collaborating and giving us artistic advising.
00:40:00
S1: Well, literally sounds like the opportunity of a lifetime. So we'll give details as to how people can find out more. But what would be really cool, Helen and Mia is maybe in a few weeks time, or even when the announcement is made of the winner, it'd be good to speak to them, and it'd be really cool to get a bit of an idea of what it's like playing at Carnegie Hall. Um, maybe speaking after that event, I think that would be just, uh, just an extraordinary opportunity, but we'll, uh, we'll do one step at a time. Um, yeah. Who, who wants to let people know how people can find out more? How can people find out more? I, as I said, there's not a lot of time, but, you know, if people are musicians, they've probably got something in their, uh, in their collection already they can send off. So there's no, uh, not a lot of time needed there to, to prepare that. How can we do that? How can we find out more?
00:40:49
S7: Um, how.
00:40:50
S4: Can you explain?
00:40:51
S7: Yeah, sure. Yeah.
00:40:53
S1: What do people need to do to enter the competition?
00:40:57
S7: Yeah.
00:40:57
S5: I mean, you can read all about the competition, uh, regulations and, uh, information on our website. Béla music foundation website is Béla mf.org.
00:41:10
S1: All right, we'll put those details up there. Shout outs. Mira, congratulations on the vision and congratulations on what you've done in the last eight years. It's, uh, tremendous. So congratulations and Helen, lovely to talk to you as well, and we'll keep in touch.
00:41:24
S7: Thank you so much for having us. Yes.
00:41:27
S1: Sir. Mira Mira is the CEO for the foundation and the artistic director there. Uh, tell us about that opportunity. So not a lot of time. So apologies for rushing it, but maybe if you get in a very late entry, who knows? You could be playing at Carnegie Hall.
00:41:43
S8: I don't I don't know. I don't think so. I haven't heard, um, most people sort of thought that, um. I think that it was going to be a bit of a tight squeeze. Milk doesn't come just out of a plastic container that you see in the bottle in the fridge. And that's the most disappointing part of the whole thing. And, uh, wonder just how short term that's going to be. Yeah, it's an interesting one.
00:42:07
S1: It's that time of the month when we hear that it means we're here. From Phil Vinepair, co-founder and co-presenter for Phil. Welcome back.
00:42:16
S8: Thank you Peter, it's good to be back.
00:42:18
S1: Now, something that has kind of just had this enormous groundswell about it in terms of publicity and opinions and, uh, good, bad, indifferent is the, uh, smart glasses. Not so long ago, they were a bit pigeonholed for people who had disabilities or people who are blind or low vision, but all of a sudden, it's a free for all.
00:42:37
S8: Yeah, it is. And it's that in a way that that's happened because that means that it makes it a little bit more difficult for blind and visually impaired. People who make use of these may find themselves in a bit of strife, having to go to various places, whether it's in a mall or a shopping centre or whatever, and uses them to identify shops or read signs or read menus in restaurants and so on, may find themselves in a spot of bother because in some cases, and in some states, they are now banning them, which I think is rather sad because it just makes it a bit difficult for us.
00:43:17
S1: I wonder if they're going to be exempted though, because there's talk about people are going to make it for those who are kind of relying on them for for legitimate use, if I could put it that way. Or maybe it's not just legitimate use because someone's got sight and they're using it for legitimate reasons. That sounds like that's not going to cut it for them. But if you have a disability, you might get exempted. But I guess it's how you come up with that exemption or what do you do? Do you have a card or, you know, how do you kind of prove that, yes, I've got a vision impairment or.
00:43:49
S8: Yeah, that's going to be the thing is that how can you prove that you have a vision impaired thing apart from perhaps you've got a blind pension or you've got a bus pass or some other pass that you've got, not to mention, of course, your cane and your dog guide with you. It would make it a bit difficult to make it legal for that person to go in and use the smart glasses when other people might see it as being unfair. Because if they can use it, why can't their other people use it?
00:44:22
S1: Mhm. Some people have talked about almost being like, uh, the disabled parking, if you like, or the disability parking spot that, uh, I guess because often or not often, occasionally hear about people being sort of accused of using a spot when they don't seem to have any obvious disability. But of course we know that disabilities aren't necessarily obvious.
00:44:43
S8: That's true. And that has always been a difficult situation. Although now most people who have a disability card to take with them wherever they go, they can hang that on the mirror of the car. And when people or inspectors go by and see people in disability parking spots, know that there's a legitimate reason for that car being there because they can see the sticker or the the card hanging from the mirror. So that's one way they've got around that. I don't know whether it works fully, though, but I know that that's the way that they've done it.
00:45:18
S1: And of course it's the sort of thing where if you know, if you're kind of relying on an honor system, if you like, then, you know, unfortunately, there's always people that are going to kind of, well, I'm going to say cheat the system, but maybe take advantage of the system.
00:45:31
S8: Oh two yes, we've seen in South Australia, somebody when there used to be sort of like blind people going in Rundle Mall in here in Adelaide, raising funds for blind people or whatever. Someone's actually gone out there with a white cane and sponged money off people when he wasn't really blind.
00:45:51
S1: Yeah, that's a great point. And they've kind of been highlighted in, uh, television news, etcetera, over the years.
00:45:58
S8: Exactly. Yes, exactly. Now, look, one of the things that, uh, the governments are doing in all of the states is they're looking at banning them from various places. I wouldn't go that far. What I would do is if they are to be available, make them available only through things like, uh, optometrist or the blindness agencies in whatever state you're in. And that way, then those that are legitimately need them and get them from those agencies, they're not out there in supermarkets or department stores where you can get them freely.
00:46:40
S1: This is one of the things that also happened just in the last few weeks, literally, is the, you know, the big W's or the Kmart's. And they're selling very cheap ones in terms of price. Now, I'm not sure how good they are in terms of how well they function to do what, you know, the more expensive brands might do. I'm not sure if you're up on that technology.
00:47:00
S8: No, I'm not sure other than the fact that they can probably have like a camera on them and they can take photos at will. I don't know whether they'd have voice on them. And if they if they don't, then that's probably one good reason why they should be banned, because if they have speech or voice on them, then they'd be useful for blind and visually impaired people because they can read notices on, on shop doors. And I had an instance once where I went to a shop and it was closed, but I couldn't read the the actual sign to know when it was open and I had to get someone to read it for me to find out what was going on. But those were the things would be most helpful.
00:47:42
S1: What about as far as the way that technology is moving? I guess because in a sense, and you probably know this as well as any in terms of how long it takes to introduce a bill, get it through both houses of Parliament, got any sort of Parliament, state or federal, and then for it to be signed off on it. It takes such a long time. And I mean, we just talked about the fact that just in the last few weeks, these smart glasses are available in department stores or places like Kmart. It's hard to keep up with that sort of speed of technology when you're looking at legislation to do it.
00:48:16
S8: Yeah. That's true. You go to a shop and look at, say, for example, a new TV or a new sound device or whatever, or even a new phone. And you look at it and say, yeah, I might want that. I'll come back. Don't worry about coming back. Because by the time you've thought about it. They've got a new one already there.
00:48:35
S1: Yeah.
00:48:36
S8: Your phone or TV or whatever you've just bought. Once you've taken it out of the box, it becomes redundant because it's there's a new one out there.
00:48:46
S1: I was thinking about this a bit earlier. I mean, a few weeks ago, again, only a few short weeks ago, we spoke about that, uh, ozone alert day where that message was sent out to everyone who virtually everyone who had a mobile phone. And then there were issues regarding people in domestic violence situations. I mean, you can't cover, in a sense for every, uh, thing that might happen, which could be not so good.
00:49:10
S8: No. That's right. I mean, today the things just moved so fast, it's hard to keep up with it. And I think that's half the problem. We can't sort of like, keep up with it. With only 2:00 in the last couple of years up to now. But smart glasses have been made available for blind and visually impaired people. In fact, they've been around for some time, and it's only just now that they're made available for the general public.
00:49:34
S1: And of course, the flip side of that is that invariably people have been paying a very high price for it. Now, as I said, not quite sure how good the less expensive models are, but they can become a bit more achievable or a bit more obtainable because of the lower price if they do the same job. And you know, like if you're relying on the NDIS. The NDIS would probably be in favour of getting the cheaper models because it's probably costing them less to pay out for them.
00:50:00
S8: And a lot of them, the batteries probably won't last as long. Well, it's probably the more expensive ones because I'm sure that most of the expensive ones, and I know that I've heard stories of people who, who are blind and visually impaired, who have actually bought smart glasses, have actually found that one of the biggest problems is the battery life. So that probably one of the things that would kill them off.
00:50:24
S1: And of course, again, there's been talk about, you know, if people are quick enough and you're pairing it to your iPhone or pairing it to your smartphone, your smart glasses to your smartphone. If people are quick enough, maybe they can pick up on the code that you're using and kind of tap into your private stuff in that particular method. So again, it's kind of hard to protect yourself from everything.
00:50:46
S8: Well, with I r about these days, that's a possibility because I've often sort of thought that, uh, you know, this is probably one of the things that could very easily happen. And I wonder, I'm not sure where these smart glasses come from. And if they come from, say, places like China, then you can guarantee that they'll have them set up so that they can monitor everything you do.
00:51:08
S1: Well, if they don't, that's the fear that they might.
00:51:12
S8: Yes.
00:51:12
S1: And similarly with, uh, with some of the cars that are around these days, you wonder and worry how much information people are getting from that. Yeah, I mean, I guess. Well, yeah, I know it's a bit of a long bow to draw, but it's a bit like, you know, years ago they weren't, uh, CCTVs Everywhere. Now, if you look at the news, invariably that's how you know either there's a dash cam or shops have got videos of stuff that's been going on and hopefully trying to nab the criminals that are conducting those not so very nice tasks.
00:51:44
S8: Yeah. Well, how often have you walked into a supermarket knowing you're being photographed?
00:51:49
S1: Well, normally I get buttonholed going on the way out saying you're so ugly, you broke the camera. Can you pay for a new one?
00:51:57
S8: Yeah, well, uh, but no, seriously though, we've we've really got to look at the, the smart glasses industry and try and put it under control so that it doesn't affect us as blind and visually impaired people because they have become a window on our on our world, if you like. So that, uh, you know, it gives them people independence.
00:52:19
S1: Yeah. I think most people or most, you know, fair minded people that I've heard and I've spoken to a couple on the programme have kind of made that point. They're kind of acknowledging the fact that, okay, it can be used for, uh, not so good deeds if you like, but there are people that are going to be using it for the right reasons, and there must be some way of protecting their right to be able to do it, because it's not just their right to be able to do it, but of course, they can add to their quality of life or indeed their independence.
00:52:46
S8: That's right. And that's one of the reasons why I'm fearful of the way they're handling the, um, the business of banning them. And, uh, you know, when they say they're going to ban all, all types of, uh, smart glasses, that does worry me. And I know that, uh, they're differently from the Royal Society for the blind has been in contact with, particularly the ABC, and has made reference to that particular situation. So good on them for doing that. And we need to sort of raise this issue with the authorities to make sure that we're not going to be left out in the cold.
00:53:23
S1: Well, I think when advocacy organizations Like, uh, see differently or Vision Australia or visibility, depending on what state that you might be in when organizations like that voice, their, uh, their concerns, then I think that that does carry a lot of clout in terms of either politicians or administrators or, or people who might be thinking about doing something. I just worry about making things illegal or banning them. Uh, you run the risk of it going underground and that can maybe lead to even more problems.
00:53:53
S8: Yeah. And that's evident with the, uh, the cigarette situation. Absolutely. Government trying to make them more expensive so that people can stop smoking. And, uh, people have gone underground to actually get them. And look what's happened. No, I agree with you. I hope that that doesn't happen. But at the same time, we need to be protected from situations like bans and what have you so that we can continue to use them in the proper way.
00:54:20
S1: I don't think this is the last time we'll speak about it, Phil, but particularly when legislation introduced, and then they sort of work out how they're going to enact it. Because I guess the other thing is just quickly is if you ban it, wherever you ban it, who's going to police the bans as well?
00:54:35
S8: That's going to be a very good question, because the police have got enough on their plate, let alone trying to fight that one.
00:54:42
S1: They've got security guards that give that power. Then you fear that, you know, particularly on, you know, the wrong circumstances. Someone might get a bit hot headed and who knows where it could lead to. It's got to be a bit hard to put that toothpaste back in the tube, I think. Hey, Phil. Yep. Good to catch up. That's a good discussion. A good, thought provoking stuff. So we'll speak again next month.
00:55:02
S8: Certainly. Well, we'll see you then.
00:55:04
S1: Both proven to be a co-founder and co-presenter for Focal Point. Our audio described show of the week. Ah yes. Pushing all the right buttons at the right time. Very much like Chris Fagan. 640 SBS Movie Channel this Saturday evening. Storm Boy, based on the beloved book by the same title. This features a young lad in a remote coastal Australia who rescues three orphaned pelicans. Rather appropriate in the sense that, uh, bird flu so much in the news these days, but still. Boy, our movie of the week. I already described movie of the week this Sunday evening, 640 SBS Movie Channel. It is with audio description and it is rated PG. Some birthdays before we go. Jen Nichols having a birthday down in Tassie. Jen hope things are going well. Bike rider extraordinaire advocate to also Carly Towns having a birthday adventurer extraordinaire having a birthday. Happy birthday to Carly. Very spiritual person. Lovely lovely spirit about Carly. Happy birthday to you. And Tyler Goss is having a birthday. That judoka player represented Australia at the Paralympic Games in Paris. Also having a birthday. That is it for the program, Phil Van Pelt reminds me that daylight savings starts this weekend. So if you're listening on a Wednesday evening, don't forget your clock forward Saturday night slash Sunday morning. If you're listening on a Monday morning, I hope you've done it Wednesday nights. We're off to reading the play. Monday morning's Wrath to National Press. Sam, thanks so much for your help. Uh, Nathan, thanks so much for yours as well, reminding you that focal point is available wherever you get your favorite podcast. And we'd love for you to tell a friend about the show. Be kind to yourselves, be gentle, be thoughtful, and look out for others. All being well. Focal point back at the same time next week. On behalf of Philip van der peer, this is Peter Greco saying this is focal point produced and presented from Vision Australia Radio in Adelaide. Dinah land.
S1: Hello and welcome to Focal Point here on Vision Australia Radio Online via radio.org, via Radio Digital, through the Community Radio Plus app. Look for Vision Australia Radio as well as your favourite podcast or streaming service, and through the Reading Radio Network. Peter Greco, on behalf of Philip van der veer saying thank you so much for making time to tune in. We really do appreciate that this program coming to you from Ghana Land come to you very shortly. We'll meet Casey Howard, who's just launched her book about the naughtiest guide dog. What is it about? I believe it's available in your preferred format. So very accessible. Casey coming up very soon. Then speak to Robert Sims. He's the leader of the Greens in the upper house in South Australia, talking about smart glasses and some thoughts that Robert has. Might also ask him about some of the cuts to the NDIS and the impact. How's Robert reading that as far as his office phone goes? Then we'll catch up with Meera Kim and Helen Shapiro from the Bella Music Foundation. They've got a competition now. If you're really quick, you'll be able to enter. If you've got your music prepared, you'll be able to enter and there's a tremendous prize at the end of it. We'll share that information with you. And Phil Vandepeer, co-founder and co-presenter for Focal Point, will join us. Always lots to talk about. I think Phil's pretty keen to speak about smart glasses. For the grand final was on last weekend, the AFL Grand final, but the big event was the launch of author Extraordinaires book. Casey, Hyde and Casey is on the line. Casey, welcome.
00:02:32
S2: Hello. How are you going? Been great day.
00:02:34
S1: Yes, it's a good day for me too, because I get to talk to you now. How did the launch go?
00:02:40
S2: Well. The naughtiest guide dog book was, um, promoted down in my local suburb of Altona in Melbourne. And, uh, the weather was pretty atrocious, actually, for a book launch. Um, there was some going to be some soggy books on the day, so we had to change location, but everything turned out really well. I really appreciate the, the support from my friends and, um, even the Surf Life Club allowed us into the Surf Life Club for the event. So it was really great.
00:03:06
S1: Yeah. Well, the title of your book kind of almost says it all, doesn't it?
00:03:10
S2: Yeah. The naughtiest guide dog. Yeah. Um, so yeah, it started off with, uh, uh, my old guide dog Bridget, who was, um, you know, my guide dog for nearly like ten years working, but, um, you know, retired with me and, uh, she basically caused me a lot of stress and grief over the lifetime that she hanged out with me. So all these stories kind of collected into a book.
00:03:33
S1: And I believe in a sense, this is a tribute to Bridget. And did you kind of, come to the idea or launch it close to the anniversary of her passing?
00:03:42
S2: No. Not really. It was actually a bit of a deadline due to making the book the most accessible book for a book launch, so I really put a lot of effort into formatting the naughtiest guide dog book to have an audio book and a Braille book, and also an e-book and a physical book. So there was a lot of formatting, um, books to be organised for the book launch. So I basically followed the deadline of the formatting team. And when the formatting was all done, I could actually get the book launched together. And it's spring. So I thought spring would be great. And then it was a bit ironic because, you know, the grand final had two teams from different states, so everyone had time to actually come to my book launch. So they really enjoyed actually having something to do because they all didn't know what to do if no Melbourne team was in the grand final.
00:04:30
S1: Yeah, well, Brisbane and Fremantle cooperated on your behalf. Now tell us about the book. That's not the full title. The Naughtiest Dog, is it? There's a little bit more to it as well.
00:04:39
S2: Yeah. So this is the first series of the naughtiest Guide Dog. So it's actually a series. And the first book that I've written is called The Hungriest Guide Guide Dog. So this book is all about how hungry our guide dogs can be and how they can take advantage of our blindness. Um, because every time, you know, we go out and about, we trust our guide dogs to get us to our destination. But the hungriest guide dog basically took me places where she wanted to go to before I could get to my destination. So yeah, it's been quite entertaining. All these memories flew back into my head and, and yeah, it was really nice to have a team of friends actually get me to a point. It could be published now.
00:05:14
S1: I've been doing this program for a while, and one of the things I've learnt is it's quite an in-depth process to match up a handler with their guide dog, because obviously they want it to work as best as possible. And I'm told that the traits of the guide dog match the owner, or vice versa. So naughty and hungry. There's that kind of back view.
00:05:32
S2: I hope so, because I am always hungry, perpetually hungry. And I'm a bit cheeky. But with Bridget, she actually got rejected by, um, three other blind, um, handlers when she matched with me. So I think she already had the naughty streak in her before she was matched with me. And I liked her ambitious way. She was actually very fast. She was a very fast walking dog and I like to do sports. So we did parkrun a lot together and it built our bond up because we both like being outdoors. So I think we we did have a good match. Uh, but she did also take advantage of my blindness a lot. So, um, we had some funny, funny moments together.
00:06:07
S1: Now, this is one of the things that you did, I guess, is you kind of touched on, you collated some of the incidences over the years, and they have obviously come in very handy in terms of your record keeping to put them into a book.
00:06:18
S2: Well, Bridget passed away last year in June, and the grief really got to me. Um, there was a movie called The Barbie Movie that came out last year, and there was this one scene of Barbie being paralyzed by, um, finding out that she's, you know, plastic. Fantastic. So I sort of felt like that last year and I didn't know how to get out of my, um, grief. Like stress is. So a friend said, like, go and draw or paint. And I'm like, well, I can't see to draw or paint. So how do I manage my grief? And someone said, hey, let's write down stories about what you did to you. And I was like, okay, let's make a book. Um, so yeah, that's how the book kind of came together.
00:06:53
S1: Terrific. Now, how did you actually do the book? Because, Casey, you are blind, but you don't use Braille.
00:07:00
S2: Well, I went out, you know, no, I don't, I don't know Braille because I was a massage therapist for 17 years. So my fingers actually don't work at all with um, touching with, um, texture anymore. So I have trouble filling the bumps, but I know Braille is really important in our community. I think it's a really lovely language to have. And watching people do it, like read books with their hands is quite emotionally. I got triggered in the, in the launch on the weekend when watching someone use their hands read my book, I was like, wow, this is, this is great. This is what they want. This is what they deserve to be in a normal book launch with everyone else and having a Braille book, you know, provided in the launch. It allowed them to enjoy their hands as much as us joining, you know, enjoying our eyes and reading a book. So I learned a lot in the book launch. Uh, so the book sort of came along through, uh, looking at the different formats of the book and trying to work out, um, you know, what will be beneficial for, for this book should be come together. So there was a lot of trial and error, a lot of providers reaching out to work out how to solve the commercial printing of a Braille book. But it can be done. It can be done because I've done it. So it was hard work, but it can be done.
00:08:07
S1: Trailblazer. Now, what about in terms of the logistics or mechanics of actually doing it? What did you use? I'm thinking in terms of, uh, a computer or a Mac or your iPhone. How did you kind of, uh, go from an idea in your head to, uh, work on paper?
00:08:21
S2: Well, I went, uh, looking at my photos and I sort of zoom in really big, like huge to actually see the pictures. And, uh, sometimes I had to use search like, you know, black dog at beach or black dog at Bunnings and, uh, ban all these pictures that that were Bridget's pictures to put into the book. And of course, I've got a few support people in my life, so they sort of help me, um, align the pictures with the, the book stories. And then I went on to my AI friend and AI has become a really beneficial access point for us in the community. And yeah, got, uh, the book photos converted into cartoon. So I just basically asked AI to turn them into cartoons. And then if they did something a bit silly, I had to readjust the AI, um, feedback. And then eventually the cartoon picture came along to relate back to the story. And then I got some friends to, um, what would you like, uh, edit the book so the pictures would relate to the stories and then make it more appealing to the people who can see. So I sort of did a trial and error of a few books and took them to a few friends, and they took the books to the schools, and they actually did a lot of trial and error before the book was actually like formally, like printed. And yeah, it was a lot of, um, effort to get that book, do a reality type of thing because you have to.
00:09:32
S1: Put, as you said, AI can be a very good assistant. I believe there were a few, uh, shall we say, funny, a funny outcomes of, uh, you giving AI some instructions as to what you wanted. When you talk about the, the cartoon outcome.
00:09:45
S2: The first time we got the cartoons kind of generating the, like the dog was missing its eye or the ear. And sometimes the tables had four legs or eight legs, and I didn't see any of that. So I had to get friends to tell me what the AI was doing to my pictures. So I wouldn't look silly in the in the formal book. And it was hard work. And it it's really fun actually to work with AI to actually get that image back to the way that you want it to be, to portray a story, because.
00:10:11
S1: I was pretty new. So I guess, you know, you're pretty, uh, up with it, if I could put it that way, to be able to use it to your benefit because, you know, five years ago, certainly ten years ago, that probably wouldn't have been able to happen.
00:10:23
S2: Well, when I first got into this whole illustration slash like producing a book, it costs about $5,000 to get an illustrator to draw the pictures of a book. And that's a lot of money for someone who's, you know, self-publishing. So I couldn't afford $5,000 for 12, you know, pictures of a dog. And some people didn't even know how to draw a dog. So for me, I was really concerned about, you know, the illustrator drawing the dog for the book. So I was more reliable because it was actually coming from Bridget herself through the photo. So Bridget's still helping me even though she passed away last year. So it's been great to have so much silly moments with her.
00:10:57
S1: It's a lovely acknowledgement. Now, I've been lucky enough to hear snippets of your book, so thank you for giving me that privilege. And it's, uh, very well, uh, narrated, uh, if I say so myself. It's it's a good person you've chosen to narrate.
00:11:10
S2: The audiobook came along as a bit like there's a lovely, uh, man in our community called, uh, Tony Urico. He does, um, recording studio in Yarraville. And I reached out to him and he's a music producer and he said, I've never done an audiobook before. Let's, let's give it a go. So I spent about a month with, um, lovely Tony, and we jumped in the recording studio and I got my swim club, came along and I knew one of the ladies had a really nice voice, and I said, have you you're a kindergarten teacher and you read books out all the time to kids. Would you record your voice? And she said, yes, this is my dream come true. I've always wanted this moment and thanks for giving me this moment to read out a book. Tony and I got together and we found out we both had, um, sad stories. Tony's guide dog passed away in December, so this was all like basically processing grief together to, um, laugh at all the funny moments our dogs, you know, brought to our lives.
00:11:57
S1: And you want to mention the person's name who did actually do the narrating.
00:12:00
S2: Yeah. So Kelly Pemberton is her name. She's a lovely swimming athlete and she's a kindergarten teacher. And Kelly is an amazing narrator. So she definitely had it in her, uh, when it came to narrating a book. And hopefully she'll do the next one. So it becomes a bit more. Yeah, a bit of a pattern.
00:12:16
S1: You will make her famous yet? Casey.
00:12:17
S2: Yeah. She was she. And hopefully she'll become a famous narrator. She said that she would like to read more books. So if anyone else has got books, reach out to me and yeah, maybe. Get connected.
00:12:26
S1: I catch you on a serious note. I guess we have been serious and sort of light hearted, but it must have been a little bit tough. You kind of touched on it. Sure. Sharing the grief with Tony. You know, I guess when you're going back over some memories and stuff, grief is part of that process as well.
00:12:42
S2: Yeah. I think grief is really part of, you know, the transitional gap of, yeah, saying goodbye to your loyal friend, to working out how to be independent again and then having you know, your name on the list or, you know, thinking, even considering, you know, getting another guard dog to help you out in your life. So yeah, there was a lot of leaky eyes, um, with even looking at the images too, talking to Tony about our dogs and what they've done for us and even just mentioning, you know, Bridget at my book launch, it really got me going. So I think you just have to show that you're human and everyone goes through this, um, grief period.
00:13:19
S1: Well, probably better to let it out than to hold it in. And that's probably not a very healthy thing to do now. Are you hoping to put proceeds towards a certain cause? As far as this book goes, and maybe future books go?
00:13:31
S2: Yeah. I, uh, been working on a project with, um, guided eyes. I think I met Sharon, and, uh, we're basically putting a charity together called the Bridget retired Guide Dog legacy. And it's basically a nice way to help other retired guide dogs have their dignity and their, um, their needs met through, um, fundraising. So going to the book launch on Saturday was basically a celebration to opening up the charity so we can start helping all the retired guide dogs that do need help with their, you know, hydrotherapy needs or their medication needs. When they do get older and they do, you know, not have their harness on, on their back, they're like looked after by the community. So I'm looking forward to seeing where this charity takes me. And I think it's going to be a lot of fun.
00:14:15
S1: It's a really good point, isn't it? Because they can do eight, nine, ten great years of service, but that doesn't mean their life is is over, per se.
00:14:23
S2: Yeah. And it's really tricky because there's a bit of a gap. There's, you know, you fall off the NDIS with the guide dog because they're not working anymore. And then the pet insurance is too high. The, the, you know, the rates are too high. Um, after ten years old. So there's no real financial gap to help them over ten. So if we can get a charity together such as a guide dog legacy together, um, hoping people will reach out and I get to hear their stories and get to help their dogs and make makes me happy because like these old dogs have like literally sacrificed their life to keep us independent. So why not give them the hydrotherapy and the medication and, you know, the relaxed life sitting on the couch or a bed, you know, bed when they get older and a bit more fragile.
00:15:05
S1: Well, we all want to be treated well when we get older, don't we? Well, you probably don't think about that because you're so young, but, uh, I, I certainly probably in that camp. Now, what about in terms of the future books, have you have you got some ideas for for future titles or is that a bit of a secret? What's happening there?
00:15:20
S2: Casey at the moment. We, um, just been working on the second book. Actually, it's mostly about naughty guide dog antics with the what has happened to me over the last few years. But there's a few of my friends who also gave me some great ideas. So currently the second books in in process. And another thing like learning how to produce a book is really important. It's actually a really tricky situation. Like you have to get the Bakos eye, then you have to go and get formatting checks multiple times. So the editing is great. Then the printing is different. So you have to format the book to be printed, and then you have to get the providers that can print the books. So this is all trial and error. And I'm hoping the second book will be much easier.
00:16:01
S1: If people want to get hold of the book. How can we do that?
00:16:03
S2: Yeah. So currently we haven't got an online shop because we're developing an online shop. But you can reach out to me through my email address, it's casey@guided.org dot OUCASEYHYDE at GoDaddy. So g u I'd edeyes.org ORG dot a u. And the send me an email. Uh, and yeah, definitely can order a book through me. I'm hoping to get the online shop ready by Christmas. And yeah, hopefully there'll be an online access point too.
00:16:40
S1: Thanks for speaking to us, Casey.
00:16:41
S2: Thanks, Peter. You're so lovely. Thank you.
00:16:43
S1: Casey. Hi there. Author of the book The Naughtiest Guide Dog. This one, the first one is the hungriest, naughtiest guide dog. So if you'd like a copy, we'll put the case's details up with our show notes. And as always, you can always call us here at the radio station. Robert Simms is the leader of the Greens in the South Australian upper house, and I'm really pleased to welcome to the program, Rob, first time we've spoken. So welcome and thank you so much for your time.
00:17:08
S3: Thanks very much, Peter, for the opportunity. Great to talk to you and your listeners.
00:17:12
S1: Now, Rob, there's been a lot of discussion in the last few weeks in particular regarding smart glasses. And you've got some thoughts and maybe going to introduce some legislation regarding these.
00:17:22
S3: Yeah. That's right. I've had lots of members in the community contact me about smart glasses. They're really concerned, I think, around the potential impact this has on individual privacy. And, you know, the potential for people to be filmed against their knowledge and without their permission in public places, places like swimming pools, changing rooms at gyms, uh, playgrounds, childcare centers and schools, all of these places. I think, you know, high risk when it comes to people being filmed for obvious reasons. And that's why I'm introducing a bill to ban smart glasses from those locations. But critically, the bill does contain exemptions for people with disability and of course, with vision impairment, because I do recognize that this technology can be life changing for people with disability.
00:18:16
S1: Want to come back to that in a second. But you want to ban them from being someone even walking into, say, a swimming pool area with with the glasses?
00:18:24
S3: Yeah. That's right. So swimming pools at childcare centers, playgrounds, schools, a lot of local councils are moving into imposing bans. And I think it's difficult for councils to do that at their level. So what we're suggesting is a statewide coordinated approach. I've written to the leaders of all of the different political parties here in South Australia asking their views, and I plan to introduce a private member's bill next month. But I am also, of course, listening to the views of the community around this.
00:18:56
S1: How do you see it working, though? Because I guess, you know, it's one thing to have a rule or a law, but it's another thing to kind of enforce it.
00:19:03
S3: Yeah. Look, it's a difficult one to enforce. And to be honest, one of the things that my colleagues have been pushing in Canberra is a national ban on this technology to provide for an opportunity for the law to catch up. But, you know, failing that, really it's over to the state parliaments to to look at it. So what we're suggesting is that there be a penalty of up to $10,000 for people to wear these glasses in those locations. In terms of how it would work in practice, it really gives security guards or indeed police, law enforcement a bit of extra power in terms of being able to go up to somebody if they suspect that they're wearing those glasses and to ask them a few questions.
00:19:46
S1: Now, I guess one of the things that's happened over the last few weeks, let alone days, almost, is the fact that a kind of a sort of fairly inexpensive, uh, brand, if you like, or an expensive product has come onto the market and very easily accessible through, you know, your sort of conventional retail shop, I guess in the days of yore, not so many days of yore, but, uh, you know, there are more specialized for people who might be blind or have low vision, for example.
00:20:12
S3: Well, this is and this is the big problem. You know, they were specialized technology. Now they're really widely available. You can get them for less than 100 bucks at Kmart. Um, and so that means this technology is just potentially falling into the hands of people who might have more nefarious intentions. And, you know, you don't want to see people being filmed against their will and that material being streamed online or shared in online platforms and that kind of thing. And obviously, there's real risks when we're talking about children as well in settings like playgrounds and swimming pools and the like. So that's why I'm suggesting that we have a ban. We've set the penalty at a fairly high level, but the hope is that that would act as a deterrent. So really take away some of the social licence of these glasses. And when it comes to them being in key public locations.
00:21:00
S1: So I guess to say for a person who is blind or you said as well, who's blind or has low vision, that can be really, really important part of their independence. But I guess for members of the general public, it's almost like a fun thing or a toy. So I guess you're saying the restrictions as to where they can use it in those sort of settings?
00:21:18
S3: Yeah. But recognizing that these penalties wouldn't apply to people with a disability. And in my draft legislation, I've made it clear that there would be an exemption if somebody has a disability. And I've been talking to the attorney General's department about how that might be managed in practice. But I guess it's a bit like people with disability that might be able to use designated parking. People accept that if you've got a disability that you might need to have accessible car parking available. Likewise, I think people in the community accept that if someone has a disability, they might need to use technology to help them manage that. And I totally understand that smart glasses are going to be really helpful for a lot of people. The concern here, though, is people that might be using them for the wrong intent, and that's what we're trying to crack down on.
00:22:07
S1: So this be a situation where, uh, you know, it's almost like a you know, your word is your Honor, if you like it, you're kind of relying on people's honesty. I, I rock up to a swimming pool. Yes. I'm a person who's blind. Well, we believe you through your go type of thing.
00:22:20
S3: Or and this is something that I need to consult with the government around, around how that would work in practical terms and get some advice on how that exemption would work. So we're trying to work through that, but the intention is to make it very clear that, you know, people who have a disability or indeed need to use this technology, and there's a public interest in them being able to access the technology that that would be exempt.
00:22:44
S1: Rob, how does the private member's bill set up kind of work? I mean, often we hear about, you know, government or opposition introducing legislation. It's kind of voted along party lines or discussed and then goes to the upper house, etcetera, etcetera. In the situation that you're proposing, how does that kind of work, and what kind of priority does that take with other legislation that the government and or opposition and indeed anyone in Parliament might have?
00:23:07
S3: It's a really good question, Peter. So on Wednesdays in the state parliament, we have private members day. Any member of Parliament can put forward a piece of legislation and bring it forward, and that's what I plan to do with this. But of course, getting it through the lower house is the challenge then, and that's why I've been engaging with the government. I've had some positive discussions with the Attorney General's Department about this legislation. But as I said earlier, I've also written to the opposition. I've written to One Nation. I'm keen to hear everybody's views in the Parliament and see if we can get this balance right. It's really about striking the right balance between this technology and the access to the technology and, of course, community privacy.
00:23:44
S1: You sense that there's a willingness to do something about it. I mean, I guess the problem is fairly obvious now, isn't it? I mean, a few months ago, as I keep referring to, perhaps it wasn't quite as well known or people weren't kind of aware of it as they might have been, but it's become very prevalent over the, over the last, uh, recent times.
00:24:01
S3: Yeah, that's a concern. It's really a case of, I think, technology developing at a pace that is really out of step with the Parliament and indeed the community's expectations more broadly.
00:24:11
S1: And your sense of what the Attorney General slash, you know, government might be thinking?
00:24:17
S3: Oh, look, I, I think, um, to be fair, they're considering the detail of it. So, um, no, I haven't got any firm commitments from anybody yet, but I think there's a recognition that we probably need to do something in this space and I'll keep working through that.
00:24:29
S1: So it works that you introduced it in the upper house because that's where you are. Then if it's passed there, it goes down to the lower house. And that's right. The process proceeds from there.
00:24:37
S3: That's right. Yeah. To get a bill through the upper house, I need to have the support of the government or the Liberal opposition and One Nation. So they're the pathways for getting a bill through the upper House. But to become law, it needs approval of both Houses of Parliament. So really, you've got to get the government on board.
00:24:54
S1: And time is of the essence in a sense, isn't it, because these things are moving so quickly that I guess that's part of the issue. Rob, a broader question, if you like, is that, you know, technology has moved so quickly and in a sense, you know, it's pretty hard for legislation and legislators to keep up with it.
00:25:08
S3: That's right. And that's why my colleagues have been pushing for a moratorium in Canberra to say, well, let's actually work through all of the privacy considerations. Let's make sure we've got the balance right. But, you know, the federal government seem to be reluctant to do that. And that's why I'm looking at what I can do at my level.
00:25:22
S1: Rob, before you go, I know, of course, there's been a lot of discussion regarding the National Disability Insurance Scheme and some of the changes that are legislated and maybe being rolled out. Um, I know you're a state member of Parliament, so maybe not directly impacted, but does your office get many calls regarding issues with the NDIS?
00:25:42
S3: Yeah. We have had, um, a lot of calls from constituents about this. And I think a lot of people in the community are concerned. I'm really worried about families that are going to miss out on support as a result of the government's NDIS changes. I know my colleagues in Canberra have been doing a lot of work on this and really opposing what the Albanese government is doing, something I'm absolutely aware of too, as a local member.
00:26:04
S1: I mean, your counterpart, if you like. Uh, Jordon Steele-john has been very, very outspoken. Some of his, uh, language and some of the things he said about, uh, you know, blood on hands and maybe causing deaths. I mean, that that's pretty, uh, pretty powerful stuff. And I mean, you know, he is a person living with the disability and obviously hearing from a lot of people that would be in that position or those sort of positions.
00:26:25
S3: Absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, Jordan, somebody who has lived experience with disability and is really a fantastic advocate. He's got lots of really strong community connections. And, you know, I've been hearing similar from people in the community that are really worried about what's going to happen here. And I think fundamentally, the government is really losing sight of what the NDIS was set up for. It was to provide people living with disability with, you know, level of autonomy and dignity, self-determination. And now to start whittling it back really is quite galling. And it's a question of priorities. You know, why isn't the government ensuring that the big corporations pay their fair share of tax to fund these sort of essential services.
00:27:05
S1: Some of the whittling back is sort of in areas that I don't think they quite realize how important they are. The the social interaction, the community involvement, and kind of the the impact upon that on people with disabilities. If they're, you know, quote unquote, you know, stuck at home even more.
00:27:20
S3: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think, you know, we saw during Covid the huge social impact that can that can have the detrimental social effects of being isolated for prolonged periods of time. And a lot of people with disability, these supports are really vital. So yeah, I'm disappointed with what the government's doing and we're continuing to monitor it.
00:27:38
S1: Yes. Well, certainly if I had a dollar for every time a person with a disability during Covid talked about people are complaining about being isolated, you know, you should be in, in our shoes as we have been all our lives. Uh, you know, that that's the kind of that's our world all the time. So, uh, yeah, I kind of gave people a bit of perspective.
00:27:54
S3: Absolutely. Yeah, I can understand that.
00:27:57
S1: Rob. Good luck with the registration. We'd love to keep in touch with you on how long could it take to pass through where the private members bill stage and then get to the lower house.
00:28:07
S3: Thanks, Peter. Look, I'm hoping we can get some movement on this by the end of the year. But of course, I'm wanting to consult and work through some of the details that we've talked about. So absolutely, we'll keep doing that.
00:28:15
S1: All right. You're based at Parliament House in South Australia. Not that I want to give you extra work, Rob, but if people have got some thoughts, I'm sure they can go through and your staff can speak to them.
00:28:24
S3: Absolutely. And just to reiterate, you know, Peter, I understand that this technology is really important for people that are living with disability. And I also understand that the concerns around, you know, people being stigmatised for using this technology. And that's not what I'm trying to do. But this is really about saying there's some locations where we don't want people to have unfettered access to this technology. And, you know, I listed them earlier, but recognising that there are reasons why people might need to and therefore we'd have exemptions. But setting a general rule to say, well, if someone doesn't have a disability, then they probably don't need to be using smart glasses at a swimming pool or in a changing room, that kind of thing.
00:29:04
S1: Rob, thanks for your time, I appreciate that.
00:29:05
S3: Thanks, Peter. Good to chat to you.
00:29:07
S1: That's Sir Robert Sims there. Robert is the leader in the upper house for the Greens here in South Australia with some interesting thoughts regarding smart glasses. So we'll stand by for more. As far as the legislative part of that goes, in the next year, well, maybe next few months. Let's meet a couple of guests from the Music Foundation. They've got a competition happening. You might be interested in joining it. Let's speak to their CEO, Mr. Kim. Mira. Lovely to meet you. Thank you for your time.
00:29:33
S4: Hi, this is Kim. I'm the CEO of Bella Music Foundation. Nice meeting you.
00:29:38
S1: And we also meet the artistic director, Helen Shapiro. Helen, welcome to you too.
00:29:44
S5: Thank you so much, Peter. Thank you for having us.
00:29:47
S1: Um, Mira, start with you. You're the CEO talked a bit about the Bella Music Foundation. Who are you and what do you do?
00:29:53
S4: Yes. Um, Parallel Music Foundation is a US based non-profit organization dedicated to empowering blind and visually impaired musicians around the world through music education, performance opportunities and career development. BMF was founded in 2018. Our major programs include international music competitions, concerts and festivals for blind musicians, as well as the BMF Youth Orchestra, which brings blind, visually impaired and sighted young musicians together. One of our biggest achievements was holding the 2025 PMF International Music Festival for the blind at Unesco headquarters in Paris. It was an official event for the 20th anniversary of the 2005 Unesco convention.
00:30:52
S1: Good.
00:30:52
S4: Tastic. Yes. Um, through all of these programs, our goal is to create meaningful opportunities for blind musicians to develop their artistry and build a successful careers in music.
00:31:08
S1: And borders are no barrier. It doesn't matter where you are, you can kind of be part of it. Yeah. Uh, Helen, tell us a little bit about your role and then we'll talk about the competition. But what's your role, Helen?
00:31:19
S5: Sure. Um, I am the artistic director where I do, um, you know, oversee various programs that I just outlined. But, you know, Meera is a fearless leader of Music Foundation and the founder and the visionary behind it. So I think my role is very simple. Um, I make sure that that vision and the mission of Bella Music Foundation is lived out in our concerts, in our competitions, in any other ways that we support musicians who are blind and visually impaired. No matter where they are in their journey, um, whether young, uh, student who's just starting out, uh, or, uh, a very seasoned musician who's looking for the next step in their musical careers.
00:32:06
S1: And when you talk about music, is it, uh, music and singing as well?
00:32:10
S2: Yeah.
00:32:10
S5: So, you know, um, our BMF international music competition that we're talking about is a really great example of the scope of, um, and the, the type of musicians that we support. And this competition is an international platform, um, specifically created for musicians who are blind and visually impaired in the classical and the jazz, uh, traditions, um, in all instruments, including voice. And it's open to any musicians who are, um, in the ages of 10 to 30 years old from all around the world. So the scope is pretty large this year. Also, we have a category for musicians, uh, to submit their original composition. So that's also an additional aspect to this year's competition, which makes the 2026 competition a little bit more unique. And also what's going. Yeah. What's involved. Yeah. No no no no problem. And um, so we do this all completely online. So the application process is online and we have three different divisions, uh, for the competition. So junior division, uh, is for musicians, um, in the ages of 10 to 14. And that's only classical um, category. And then the young artist division ages 15 to 20 years old. That's both classical and jazz categories, emerging artists division, which is the most advanced, um, uh, category, uh, musicians, uh, ages between 21 and 30 can submit their application. And that's also, uh, for classical and jazz categories. And we initial screening is through video, uh, performing video, uh, submission. And then once they are, um, named finalists on October 12th, we will invite the participants, uh, to have a live Zoom audition, uh, before a set of juries. So, um, and then the winners will be announced on October 22nd.
00:34:21
S1: Okay. Sounds fantastic. So, uh, the, the first, uh, kind of initial thing is you kind of put up your submission, if you like, or you put in your entry and then that's kind of judged and then you go to finalists and then they perform live before the, uh, the judges, right?
00:34:36
S5: So then once, um, all three categories have been judged and we name the finalists. I mean, I'm sorry, the winners this year is very exciting. There is a cash prize as always. However, I think what's more meaningful for these musicians might be for them to come all the way to New York City and take the stage at the famed Carnegie Hall while Recital Hall. And if you've never performed there, this could be your official Carnegie Hall debut.
00:35:05
S6: Oh, wow. That is priceless.
00:35:08
S1: Money couldn't buy that opportunity.
00:35:10
S7: Exactly. Exactly. So imagine.
00:35:12
S5: Imagine what that experience could.
00:35:14
S7: Mean.
00:35:15
S5: For young musicians. Um, you know, on that, uh, performing on that world, uh, famous, uh, celebrated stage. Yeah.
00:35:23
S1: Fantastic. Myra, how have you gone about kind of organizing this and, for example, getting such a prize? You must have worked pretty hard to make this all come together.
00:35:33
S7: Yeah. Of course.
00:35:35
S4: Lots of work.
00:35:38
S7: She does not sleep.
00:35:39
S6: No.
00:35:40
S1: I can believe that. Uh, well, even with the time differences, you guys are putting yourselves out so much to speak to us, which I appreciate. Myra, why did you set it up? What? What happened that you thought I want to set something like this up. What kind of happened that, uh, that that motivated you to do this?
00:35:56
S4: Oh, you mean Bella Music Foundation?
00:35:59
S1: Yeah. What happened before 2018 that you thought, I'm going to set this foundation up? Well, what was the trigger point? What was the thing that sparked it?
00:36:08
S4: Yeah, actually, I started it Bella Music Foundation in 2018 with a strong sense of calling and purpose. Um, I had a clear vision to create more opportunities for blind musicians because I met, you know, some, um, other really talented blind musicians, but they didn't really have, you know, a chance to be, you know, um, presented better, you know, and internationally. So I thought, you know, um, we, we would build a place where they could receive this high level music education, you know, perform and grow as artists.
00:36:45
S1: Because that's the thing, isn't it? Helen. There's a lot of talented people out there, but it's getting that opportunity. It's getting, you know, like you might say, getting your foot in the door, that that that's the kind of a trick with something like this, isn't it? Getting that, getting that start.
00:36:59
S7: Absolutely.
00:37:00
S5: And, you know, at all levels of musicianship in their growth, right? So, you know, Music Foundation working with a very laser focused vision of, uh, creating more performance opportunities, uh, whether it's through competition or mentorship or artistic collaboration. Um, we work really hard to make sure that we remove any barriers that they may experience and create a more inclusive musical community. And I think we all benefit from doing that. And also, you know, 1st May feel a little bit more isolated, um, you know, if you are, um, musician who's visually impaired and the way you learn music might be different from the rest of the community who sighted. And so we want our musicians who come across Bella Music Foundation to know that there are. They are part of a musical community, a worldwide that really believes in their potential, in their talent and their dedication, and really want them to succeed.
00:38:02
S1: There are people that have entered over the time, any kind of countries that you've been surprised at, that you've received submissions or entries from people from countries that maybe hadn't even heard of?
00:38:15
S7: Yeah, we had a several, you know.
00:38:17
S4: Different countries. But I remember South Africa, um, you know, once we had South Africa and Ecuador, you know, so many different countries, you know, Taiwan, you know, Vietnam, South Korea, China, you know, you cannot really count how many, you know, countries you get from. Yeah. Interesting.
00:38:40
S1: So you're hoping for a big flood of people before the cut off date, 1st of October.
00:38:45
S7: Yeah, we hope so. something. Yeah.
00:38:47
S1: So yeah. And then from there, we, we kind of, I guess they get a short list and then the, the people get notified and they perform before the, before the judges who. Helen, who are the judges? Uh, are they, um, people that, uh, kind of appointed independently who kind of judges this.
00:39:05
S7: Yes.
00:39:06
S5: So, you know, for the competition, Peter, you may be aware that we don't usually, uh, disclose the names of the judges right beforehand, just in case.
00:39:16
S7: Right. Uh, however, they are.
00:39:20
S5: Uh, professors at, uh, at the highest level conservatories, uh, in New York. Um, you know, New York City has many, as you can imagine. And, um, and, uh, various, uh, musicians around the world, but also people who are themselves, uh, visually impaired, uh, sit on our board. Uh, and they are part of our advisory board and people who really inform us so that we can, you know, go about doing these kind of competitions properly. And so we have a big, large community of wonderful people working together and collaborating and giving us artistic advising.
00:40:00
S1: Well, literally sounds like the opportunity of a lifetime. So we'll give details as to how people can find out more. But what would be really cool, Helen and Mia is maybe in a few weeks time, or even when the announcement is made of the winner, it'd be good to speak to them, and it'd be really cool to get a bit of an idea of what it's like playing at Carnegie Hall. Um, maybe speaking after that event, I think that would be just, uh, just an extraordinary opportunity, but we'll, uh, we'll do one step at a time. Um, yeah. Who, who wants to let people know how people can find out more? How can people find out more? I, as I said, there's not a lot of time, but, you know, if people are musicians, they've probably got something in their, uh, in their collection already they can send off. So there's no, uh, not a lot of time needed there to, to prepare that. How can we do that? How can we find out more?
00:40:49
S7: Um, how.
00:40:50
S4: Can you explain?
00:40:51
S7: Yeah, sure. Yeah.
00:40:53
S1: What do people need to do to enter the competition?
00:40:57
S7: Yeah.
00:40:57
S5: I mean, you can read all about the competition, uh, regulations and, uh, information on our website. Béla music foundation website is Béla mf.org.
00:41:10
S1: All right, we'll put those details up there. Shout outs. Mira, congratulations on the vision and congratulations on what you've done in the last eight years. It's, uh, tremendous. So congratulations and Helen, lovely to talk to you as well, and we'll keep in touch.
00:41:24
S7: Thank you so much for having us. Yes.
00:41:27
S1: Sir. Mira Mira is the CEO for the foundation and the artistic director there. Uh, tell us about that opportunity. So not a lot of time. So apologies for rushing it, but maybe if you get in a very late entry, who knows? You could be playing at Carnegie Hall.
00:41:43
S8: I don't I don't know. I don't think so. I haven't heard, um, most people sort of thought that, um. I think that it was going to be a bit of a tight squeeze. Milk doesn't come just out of a plastic container that you see in the bottle in the fridge. And that's the most disappointing part of the whole thing. And, uh, wonder just how short term that's going to be. Yeah, it's an interesting one.
00:42:07
S1: It's that time of the month when we hear that it means we're here. From Phil Vinepair, co-founder and co-presenter for Phil. Welcome back.
00:42:16
S8: Thank you Peter, it's good to be back.
00:42:18
S1: Now, something that has kind of just had this enormous groundswell about it in terms of publicity and opinions and, uh, good, bad, indifferent is the, uh, smart glasses. Not so long ago, they were a bit pigeonholed for people who had disabilities or people who are blind or low vision, but all of a sudden, it's a free for all.
00:42:37
S8: Yeah, it is. And it's that in a way that that's happened because that means that it makes it a little bit more difficult for blind and visually impaired. People who make use of these may find themselves in a bit of strife, having to go to various places, whether it's in a mall or a shopping centre or whatever, and uses them to identify shops or read signs or read menus in restaurants and so on, may find themselves in a spot of bother because in some cases, and in some states, they are now banning them, which I think is rather sad because it just makes it a bit difficult for us.
00:43:17
S1: I wonder if they're going to be exempted though, because there's talk about people are going to make it for those who are kind of relying on them for for legitimate use, if I could put it that way. Or maybe it's not just legitimate use because someone's got sight and they're using it for legitimate reasons. That sounds like that's not going to cut it for them. But if you have a disability, you might get exempted. But I guess it's how you come up with that exemption or what do you do? Do you have a card or, you know, how do you kind of prove that, yes, I've got a vision impairment or.
00:43:49
S8: Yeah, that's going to be the thing is that how can you prove that you have a vision impaired thing apart from perhaps you've got a blind pension or you've got a bus pass or some other pass that you've got, not to mention, of course, your cane and your dog guide with you. It would make it a bit difficult to make it legal for that person to go in and use the smart glasses when other people might see it as being unfair. Because if they can use it, why can't their other people use it?
00:44:22
S1: Mhm. Some people have talked about almost being like, uh, the disabled parking, if you like, or the disability parking spot that, uh, I guess because often or not often, occasionally hear about people being sort of accused of using a spot when they don't seem to have any obvious disability. But of course we know that disabilities aren't necessarily obvious.
00:44:43
S8: That's true. And that has always been a difficult situation. Although now most people who have a disability card to take with them wherever they go, they can hang that on the mirror of the car. And when people or inspectors go by and see people in disability parking spots, know that there's a legitimate reason for that car being there because they can see the sticker or the the card hanging from the mirror. So that's one way they've got around that. I don't know whether it works fully, though, but I know that that's the way that they've done it.
00:45:18
S1: And of course it's the sort of thing where if you know, if you're kind of relying on an honor system, if you like, then, you know, unfortunately, there's always people that are going to kind of, well, I'm going to say cheat the system, but maybe take advantage of the system.
00:45:31
S8: Oh two yes, we've seen in South Australia, somebody when there used to be sort of like blind people going in Rundle Mall in here in Adelaide, raising funds for blind people or whatever. Someone's actually gone out there with a white cane and sponged money off people when he wasn't really blind.
00:45:51
S1: Yeah, that's a great point. And they've kind of been highlighted in, uh, television news, etcetera, over the years.
00:45:58
S8: Exactly. Yes, exactly. Now, look, one of the things that, uh, the governments are doing in all of the states is they're looking at banning them from various places. I wouldn't go that far. What I would do is if they are to be available, make them available only through things like, uh, optometrist or the blindness agencies in whatever state you're in. And that way, then those that are legitimately need them and get them from those agencies, they're not out there in supermarkets or department stores where you can get them freely.
00:46:40
S1: This is one of the things that also happened just in the last few weeks, literally, is the, you know, the big W's or the Kmart's. And they're selling very cheap ones in terms of price. Now, I'm not sure how good they are in terms of how well they function to do what, you know, the more expensive brands might do. I'm not sure if you're up on that technology.
00:47:00
S8: No, I'm not sure other than the fact that they can probably have like a camera on them and they can take photos at will. I don't know whether they'd have voice on them. And if they if they don't, then that's probably one good reason why they should be banned, because if they have speech or voice on them, then they'd be useful for blind and visually impaired people because they can read notices on, on shop doors. And I had an instance once where I went to a shop and it was closed, but I couldn't read the the actual sign to know when it was open and I had to get someone to read it for me to find out what was going on. But those were the things would be most helpful.
00:47:42
S1: What about as far as the way that technology is moving? I guess because in a sense, and you probably know this as well as any in terms of how long it takes to introduce a bill, get it through both houses of Parliament, got any sort of Parliament, state or federal, and then for it to be signed off on it. It takes such a long time. And I mean, we just talked about the fact that just in the last few weeks, these smart glasses are available in department stores or places like Kmart. It's hard to keep up with that sort of speed of technology when you're looking at legislation to do it.
00:48:16
S8: Yeah. That's true. You go to a shop and look at, say, for example, a new TV or a new sound device or whatever, or even a new phone. And you look at it and say, yeah, I might want that. I'll come back. Don't worry about coming back. Because by the time you've thought about it. They've got a new one already there.
00:48:35
S1: Yeah.
00:48:36
S8: Your phone or TV or whatever you've just bought. Once you've taken it out of the box, it becomes redundant because it's there's a new one out there.
00:48:46
S1: I was thinking about this a bit earlier. I mean, a few weeks ago, again, only a few short weeks ago, we spoke about that, uh, ozone alert day where that message was sent out to everyone who virtually everyone who had a mobile phone. And then there were issues regarding people in domestic violence situations. I mean, you can't cover, in a sense for every, uh, thing that might happen, which could be not so good.
00:49:10
S8: No. That's right. I mean, today the things just moved so fast, it's hard to keep up with it. And I think that's half the problem. We can't sort of like, keep up with it. With only 2:00 in the last couple of years up to now. But smart glasses have been made available for blind and visually impaired people. In fact, they've been around for some time, and it's only just now that they're made available for the general public.
00:49:34
S1: And of course, the flip side of that is that invariably people have been paying a very high price for it. Now, as I said, not quite sure how good the less expensive models are, but they can become a bit more achievable or a bit more obtainable because of the lower price if they do the same job. And you know, like if you're relying on the NDIS. The NDIS would probably be in favour of getting the cheaper models because it's probably costing them less to pay out for them.
00:50:00
S8: And a lot of them, the batteries probably won't last as long. Well, it's probably the more expensive ones because I'm sure that most of the expensive ones, and I know that I've heard stories of people who, who are blind and visually impaired, who have actually bought smart glasses, have actually found that one of the biggest problems is the battery life. So that probably one of the things that would kill them off.
00:50:24
S1: And of course, again, there's been talk about, you know, if people are quick enough and you're pairing it to your iPhone or pairing it to your smartphone, your smart glasses to your smartphone. If people are quick enough, maybe they can pick up on the code that you're using and kind of tap into your private stuff in that particular method. So again, it's kind of hard to protect yourself from everything.
00:50:46
S8: Well, with I r about these days, that's a possibility because I've often sort of thought that, uh, you know, this is probably one of the things that could very easily happen. And I wonder, I'm not sure where these smart glasses come from. And if they come from, say, places like China, then you can guarantee that they'll have them set up so that they can monitor everything you do.
00:51:08
S1: Well, if they don't, that's the fear that they might.
00:51:12
S8: Yes.
00:51:12
S1: And similarly with, uh, with some of the cars that are around these days, you wonder and worry how much information people are getting from that. Yeah, I mean, I guess. Well, yeah, I know it's a bit of a long bow to draw, but it's a bit like, you know, years ago they weren't, uh, CCTVs Everywhere. Now, if you look at the news, invariably that's how you know either there's a dash cam or shops have got videos of stuff that's been going on and hopefully trying to nab the criminals that are conducting those not so very nice tasks.
00:51:44
S8: Yeah. Well, how often have you walked into a supermarket knowing you're being photographed?
00:51:49
S1: Well, normally I get buttonholed going on the way out saying you're so ugly, you broke the camera. Can you pay for a new one?
00:51:57
S8: Yeah, well, uh, but no, seriously though, we've we've really got to look at the, the smart glasses industry and try and put it under control so that it doesn't affect us as blind and visually impaired people because they have become a window on our on our world, if you like. So that, uh, you know, it gives them people independence.
00:52:19
S1: Yeah. I think most people or most, you know, fair minded people that I've heard and I've spoken to a couple on the programme have kind of made that point. They're kind of acknowledging the fact that, okay, it can be used for, uh, not so good deeds if you like, but there are people that are going to be using it for the right reasons, and there must be some way of protecting their right to be able to do it, because it's not just their right to be able to do it, but of course, they can add to their quality of life or indeed their independence.
00:52:46
S8: That's right. And that's one of the reasons why I'm fearful of the way they're handling the, um, the business of banning them. And, uh, you know, when they say they're going to ban all, all types of, uh, smart glasses, that does worry me. And I know that, uh, they're differently from the Royal Society for the blind has been in contact with, particularly the ABC, and has made reference to that particular situation. So good on them for doing that. And we need to sort of raise this issue with the authorities to make sure that we're not going to be left out in the cold.
00:53:23
S1: Well, I think when advocacy organizations Like, uh, see differently or Vision Australia or visibility, depending on what state that you might be in when organizations like that voice, their, uh, their concerns, then I think that that does carry a lot of clout in terms of either politicians or administrators or, or people who might be thinking about doing something. I just worry about making things illegal or banning them. Uh, you run the risk of it going underground and that can maybe lead to even more problems.
00:53:53
S8: Yeah. And that's evident with the, uh, the cigarette situation. Absolutely. Government trying to make them more expensive so that people can stop smoking. And, uh, people have gone underground to actually get them. And look what's happened. No, I agree with you. I hope that that doesn't happen. But at the same time, we need to be protected from situations like bans and what have you so that we can continue to use them in the proper way.
00:54:20
S1: I don't think this is the last time we'll speak about it, Phil, but particularly when legislation introduced, and then they sort of work out how they're going to enact it. Because I guess the other thing is just quickly is if you ban it, wherever you ban it, who's going to police the bans as well?
00:54:35
S8: That's going to be a very good question, because the police have got enough on their plate, let alone trying to fight that one.
00:54:42
S1: They've got security guards that give that power. Then you fear that, you know, particularly on, you know, the wrong circumstances. Someone might get a bit hot headed and who knows where it could lead to. It's got to be a bit hard to put that toothpaste back in the tube, I think. Hey, Phil. Yep. Good to catch up. That's a good discussion. A good, thought provoking stuff. So we'll speak again next month.
00:55:02
S8: Certainly. Well, we'll see you then.
00:55:04
S1: Both proven to be a co-founder and co-presenter for Focal Point. Our audio described show of the week. Ah yes. Pushing all the right buttons at the right time. Very much like Chris Fagan. 640 SBS Movie Channel this Saturday evening. Storm Boy, based on the beloved book by the same title. This features a young lad in a remote coastal Australia who rescues three orphaned pelicans. Rather appropriate in the sense that, uh, bird flu so much in the news these days, but still. Boy, our movie of the week. I already described movie of the week this Sunday evening, 640 SBS Movie Channel. It is with audio description and it is rated PG. Some birthdays before we go. Jen Nichols having a birthday down in Tassie. Jen hope things are going well. Bike rider extraordinaire advocate to also Carly Towns having a birthday adventurer extraordinaire having a birthday. Happy birthday to Carly. Very spiritual person. Lovely lovely spirit about Carly. Happy birthday to you. And Tyler Goss is having a birthday. That judoka player represented Australia at the Paralympic Games in Paris. Also having a birthday. That is it for the program, Phil Van Pelt reminds me that daylight savings starts this weekend. So if you're listening on a Wednesday evening, don't forget your clock forward Saturday night slash Sunday morning. If you're listening on a Monday morning, I hope you've done it Wednesday nights. We're off to reading the play. Monday morning's Wrath to National Press. Sam, thanks so much for your help. Uh, Nathan, thanks so much for yours as well, reminding you that focal point is available wherever you get your favorite podcast. And we'd love for you to tell a friend about the show. Be kind to yourselves, be gentle, be thoughtful, and look out for others. All being well. Focal point back at the same time next week. On behalf of Philip van der peer, this is Peter Greco saying this is focal point produced and presented from Vision Australia Radio in Adelaide. Dinah land.
