Mastering Micro-Scale CNC with Winston Moy

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Welcome everyone to the Firing the Man Podcast, a show for anyone who wants to be their own boss.
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If you sit in a cubicle every day and know you are capable of more, then join us.
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This show will help you build a business and grow your passive income stream in just a few short hours per day.
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And now your hosts, serial entrepreneurs, David Shomer and Ken Wilson.
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Welcome everyone to the Firing the Man Podcast.
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On today's episode, we're going to start out a little bit different.
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As many of you know, I started a factory four years ago and have been adding machinery and different types of tooling over the years.
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One of the tools that I added was a CNC machine.
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And this was something that was very intimidating to me on the front end of the process.
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However, it has allowed us to significantly grow our business, and it's been just overall great.
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The machine that I got was a Shapeoco 5 Pro, and I bought it from a company called Carbide 3D.
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And today we're lucky enough to have Winston Moy, who is a social media influencer in the CNC space, as well as a team member at Carbide 3D, come on the show and talk about CNC and what it's all about.
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So let's jump into the intro.
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Welcome everyone to the Firing Man Podcast, the show for entrepreneurs, creators, and business builders ready to step out of the hustle and own something that lasts.
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I'm your host, and today's guest is a maker-turned creator who blends engineering precision, creative freedom, and entrepreneurial courage.
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Meet Winston Moy.
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He began his career as a mechanical engineer and found his way into digital fabrication and eventually stepped into the world of content creation and maker community leadership.
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Winston builds things.
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CNC machines, custom fabrication products, aerospace-inspired designs, and he shares his learnings on his YouTube channel and his website, WinstonMakes.com.
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Today we're going to get into what is CNC and how can it be beneficial to entrepreneurs.
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Winston, welcome to the show.
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It's a pleasure to be here.
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Absolutely, absolutely.
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So we probably have some people listening saying, what is a CNC machine?
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And can you kind of lay out some groundwork on what that is?
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Okay, sure thing.
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That's something I've given a lot of thought about just because I know people come from all sorts of different backgrounds.
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Um I think we should start by deconstructing the acronym.
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CNC stands for Computer Numerical Control.
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It means there's a computer controlling a machine by telling it where to go with numbers.
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Under the hood of CNC is just an industrial robot playing connect the dots, where the dots are just sequences of coordinates in 3D space.
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And by moving in specific patterns, a CNC will hopefully end up doing some useful work, like carving out pieces of a guitar or engraving a cutting board or making any number of potential product ideas.
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When we say CNC machine, though, we generally are talking about a CNC milling machine or a CNC router, which is a device that'll create an end product by slicing and dicing its way through material.
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It's a robot with a knife, in essence.
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But broadly speaking, we should also touch on some other CNC adjacent technologies.
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A CNC could technically also cover something like a 3D printer or a plasma cutter or a laser cutter.
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Heck, even an inkjet printer you might have in your house is kind of a cousin to a CNC.
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It's a robot that moves a print head.
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But here for this conversation, we'll specifically talk about a CNC milling machine or a CNC router.
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A machine that'll cut through spinning a really fast end mill, which will look kind of something like this.
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It's kind of like a drill bit, but it's meant to go sideways through material.
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And the kinds of materials a CNC can cut include almost any kind of wood or plastic, some composites like carbon fiber, and many non-ferrous metals like aluminum or brass, at least at the sub-10,000 price point.
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There are plenty of industrial machines that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars that can cut cast iron, steel, stainless steel, titanium.
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But you usually don't buy those on a whim without a really strong business plan.
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A CNC is good for a lot of different things, uh, one of them being uh cutting something out multiple times.
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It's a computer.
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It's gonna cut out tens, hundreds, thousands of parts, and the first one's gonna be identical to the last.
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Um but in um kind of on the flip side to scale, you could also do prototyping with a CNC.
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If you can draw out a shape on a computer, you can cut it out.
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What you see is what you get, basically.
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So it allows you to take an idea and get to a realized product very quickly.
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It's not necessarily a technology that's meant to replace a woodworker or a metal fabricator.
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Um you won't master a CNC without having a good understanding and respect for the material you're working with, but it can be a strong force multiplier in the creation process, and it'll open a lot of doors for you if you sell a physical product.
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So that's kind of my pitch for CNC.
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I love it.
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I I absolutely love it, and I'm excited to dig into it a little bit more.
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Now, one thing that I can share a little bit more about my story, uh, coming from an accounting background, I was very intimidated by CNC.
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I thought, well, you need to you need to be an engineer to understand CAD and CAM, and I didn't even know what those acronyms stood for.
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And one of the things I I did a lot of research.
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I sat on the sidelines for probably a year watching YouTube videos, watching some of your YouTube videos on what's the best CNC to start with.
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And I chose Carbide 3D.
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And the reason for that is the training.
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The training is outstanding.
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And it made for an accountant, it made it uh it gave me some starter projects, and I feel very competent with it now.
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But that was something that was really, really important to me.
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And so on to my question.
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CNC uh in in in your explanation can feel a little intimidating because of the technical concepts of it.
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Is this something that anybody can do?
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Um, I think so.
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And we've had a lot of customers who don't have a technical background have a lot of success with it.
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Um so I think we can kind of break down what goes into running a CNC and hopefully assuage any fears or hesitations like other people might have.
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Um at its core, there are kind of three categories of skills you need.
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Uh, and you kind of touched on them, uh, TAD CAM and running a CNC.
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So step one is you need to be able to take an idea in your head and draw it out on the draw it out on the computer.
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That's basically what TAD is, or computer-aided design.
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If you've ever used a program like Adobe Illustrator or Inkscape or Corel draw, if you've made any sort of digital doodle on your computer, that's design.
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That's CAD.
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Um, so if you can do that, you could design something for a CNC.
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Uh step two is you've got to take that digital design and tell a CNC how to cut it out.
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Uh that's uh that's CAM, that's computer-aided manufacturing.
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You're taking the blueprint of your design and telling the machine, oh, I want you to cut out this shape, I want you to make a hole over here.
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Um conceptually it's very easy.
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It can get a little more tedious, but um it's hopefully easy to understand.
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And then step three, the last skill you need, is knowing how to physically set up and run a machine.
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So you've got to clamp your material to the machine, you've got to line up the machine to the right starting point, you need to load the correct tool.
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Um, there's enough information and knowledge in all three of these steps that uh people have literally gone to school for this stuff.
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You can go to a community college and and learn this stuff.
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Um and that might seem daunting that there's so much information there, and that's understandable.
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Um, but yet you look at uh carpentry or plumbing or electrical work, you could also go to school for those too, and that shouldn't stop you from doing some home improvements around the house.
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Um just because it takes years to master something doesn't mean the average Joe can't participate in these and and do some of that stuff yourself.
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Uh so don't let the depth of everything that goes into running a CNC stop you.
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Um, because quite frankly, uh I shouldn't be saying this, but a lot of people dumber than you have succeeded in CNC.
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And we live in a world where the barriers for entry and getting started, the the software tools, the hardware are all getting better and learning resources are getting more plentiful.
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Um, everything you need is there to help you take that first step.
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Um, and conceptually, if I can lay all this out in two or three minutes, um, I think anyone should be able to start to digest and piece together what they need to do in order to use a CNC if they put their mind to it.
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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Now, you touched on something, uh, barriers to entry, and I'd like to dive into that a little bit more, specifically the economics of buying a CNC machine.
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I remember the first time I went into a CNC shop, they had these giant industrial, they were about the size of a Volkswagen, and I the brand was Haas, H A A S.
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And they had 10 of them lined up, and I remember uh the tour guide said each one of these is about a half a million bucks.
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And so I've always, when I first learned of CNC, I always thought, okay, these are giant expensive specialized machines.
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And and maybe that's how it used to be.
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But, you know, what is if somebody wants to dip their toe into the water of CNC, um, what are they looking at from like an out-of-pocket expense?
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So you could get by with a low-end CNC for like about two grand or less, depending on how how many corners you cut.
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Um, I would say for a good experience, uh, your ballpark 3,000, um, the machine you have, the ShapeOco 5 Pro, if you kind of get all the major options, you're in for about five grand, uh, which is not like loose change, but it's also not something you need to take a loan out or uh like to do something crazy financially to afford.
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And if you have um kind of a business plan, like, oh, I can make uh 50 of these things a week, here's the profit margin on them.
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Most people, if they put their mind to it, can pay off the machine in a couple months, easily within a year.
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Um, so that's kind of financially what you're looking at and to prepare for.
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And there are also people who buy these things as a hobby with no intention of a return on investment.
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Um, but it shouldn't be something that kind of scares you away if you have a good plan for what you want to do with that machine.
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Absolutely, absolutely.
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And I would say it that the five the 5,000 price mark that I that you mentioned, that's a solid machine.
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I have so I have had mine for about a year and a half and have made thousands of products.
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I run it every single day.
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And I for when our shop opens, we turn it on and we're doing batch production on it, and it's been a really solid machine.
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And so I think sometimes when people think like hobbyists, they kind of think like, oh, the junky version.
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And that's not the case here.
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Um, at least that's not been my experience.
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And so uh yeah, so I I think we I'm glad that we started here on it, it's attainable mentally and attainable financially.
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And and I think that for people that have thought of CNC, those may be two barriers.
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And and so let's uh now that now that we've talked about that, let's dig into Carbide 3D.
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And I absolutely love this company.
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And for any of our and uh Winston did not pay me to say this, uh, but one of the coolest things is when you buy your machine, you get, I think it's either three or five live calls where you jump on a FaceTime or a Zoom call, and they help you solve your problems, which inevitably when you're learning something, you have problems.
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You can talk to a real person, they'll stand by the machine that you have, and that was huge in addition to the training in the community.
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And so tell me tell me more about Carbide 3D and and what that business represents in the makers community.
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So you touch on a couple things that we're pretty proud of.
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One is that we've got a we're lucky to have a community that's full of really helpful people.
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And so a lot of times people are like, hey, I'm having trouble with this or that.
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They can just jump in on our forum and like people are happy to chime in.
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They say, Oh, send me your file, I'll fix it for you.
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Um, and so for people who are just getting into CNC, like stuff like that can be a really great resource in terms of giving you the confidence to go ahead with um whatever project you're undertaking.
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Um, there's a couple other kind of places where we feel like we differentiate ourselves.
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One of them is our uh 60 days mistakes are on us policy.
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So, like the big thing when you're running an expensive machine is like, what happens if I crash it?
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What happens if I accidentally do something wrong?
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Is the machine gonna break itself?
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Generally, no.
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Like if you accidentally run the machine to one end of it and it it kind of stalls out, it's not gonna break itself.
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If it does, for the first 60 days, we'll fix it.
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Um, if you break one of our cutters, if you run into one of our clamps, we'll replace that.
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Um, and that's just because we've been around the industry long enough to kind of recognize all right, most of the time, like people they'll break a cutter.
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It's like$15 or something.
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We'll replace that if that is going to give them the peace of mind that's needed for them to hit go for the first time.
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Uh, because a lot of people, it's a big challenge just to buy a machine.
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The other challenge is they'll let the machine sit there for two, three months, like, oh, am I ready to actually run this?
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And to anything we can do to kind of short circuit that and get them to the point where they're confident enough to start doing things and start being productive with their machine is a huge win.
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Um, and now you also touched on support being able to help you, um, which is something we're pretty proud of because we're one of the only uh companies on the market that not only makes the hardware, we also make software to work with the machine.
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And so our staff is cross-trained on both.
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And so they can hold your hand from the very beginning of a project, just even the ideation phase, how do I draw this?
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And then also walk you through how you actually make it.
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Um, and that's that's kind of an important part because if you don't control both the software and the hardware, you can't really guarantee a good experience.
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It's like if Apple made an iPhone and they didn't include the operating system, like they can't really guarantee a baseline level of success with their product.
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Um, so us being able to do that has been a huge help in terms of getting people comfortable with and like up and going with as little hassle and extra like upselling and add-ons as possible.
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Absolutely.
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And I remember that the first 60 days, I did inevitably like run over some clamps, broke a couple bits, and it did take the anxiety out of, oh no, what if I screw this up?
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And and I've never heard of another company doing that, but it and honestly, the things that I broke were not super expensive, but I used my machine more.
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I was willing to try new things, which is how you learn because of that guarantee.
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And the and I mean, you guys mean it.
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I sent in pictures, you guys sent me replacements same week, like it was awesome.
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And so um now before this episode, we were trading emails, and you talked about enjoying CNC on a creative level.
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How do you balance the artistic side of making with the precision and logic of engineering?
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Oh, so this is fun.
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Um I don't see art and engineering being at odds with each other.
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Uh when I was a grad school, I got to walk through an art and architecture building on campus, and I was blown away by the industrial equipment they had at their disposal.
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They had like a four by eight like water jet, and like they had like CNC mills, and it like I came from a small undergrad, uh, the College of New Jersey, about 5,000 students.
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I went to the University of Michigan for grad school, 35,000 undergrad, like it's seven times bigger.
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And what the art department had was incredible to me.
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And the more you do this, the more you realize that art and engineering are linked.
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Art is about making something based on vibes, and engineering is about making something to optimize for a measurable or quantifiable objective.
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Um, they're two different sides of the same coin.
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When I'm designing something for the house, be it furniture or like an organizer for like my utensil drawer, um, and I want it to do a specific thing and still look good, I'm balancing practical and cosmetic goals.
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Um, and the more you do something, the more natural it becomes.
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So I don't think art and engineering are at odds with each other.
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The the needle might swing more in one direction than the other for some projects, but if you want to make a good end product, you've got to master both and be comfortable with it.
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Um so I mean, I I think you can easily enjoy both sides of it um without it kind of um again being at odds with each other.
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So yeah, they're they're in harmony.
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I like how you bridge that.
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And I was excited to hear your answer because I wasn't sure it if that was a bridgeable gap.
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And in uh you're absolutely right.
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Art comes in many forms.
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Um, maybe a paintbrush, um, maybe a piece of technology like the CNC machine.
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And for me, if you ask me to say draw a picture of a dinosaur, I am not good in that department.
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Like I just that artistic muscle is not very strong.
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Uh however, being able to design things or take somebody's current design and make my own modifications to it is really, really cool.
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And the precision that the CNC machines have, I mean, they're cutting, was it with one one one thousandth of an inch or something like that?
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I mean, it can be as good.
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Basically, like the the practical limit like that we tell people is like the width of a pencil line.
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Like, that is how accurate a carpenter can be, and you'll be at least that accurate on a CNC machine, which is pretty dang good.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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So there's a lot of listeners on right now that are in the entrepreneurship lane.
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Maybe that's they have their own brand, maybe they want to have their own brand, but I I think there are some people that are scared of the manufacturing side of things.
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And then there are some people that I think are really proud of it.
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I I would put myself in that second camp.
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I think manufacturing in the USA is outstanding and it it's doable in 2025 and beyond.
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And so, you know, with the community that you're engaged with, what would you what what are the benefits and and hidden challenges of producing your own goods?
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Well, there's a lot of pros and cons here.
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Um I think the best thing about making your own parts and products is that you control everything.
00:22:40.610 --> 00:22:46.370
Um, you become intimately familiar with how and why things work and why they don't work.
00:22:46.450 --> 00:22:52.610
Um and you don't need to rely on someone else's quality control, which may or may not uh meet your standards.
00:22:52.850 --> 00:22:59.570
Um and if something doesn't work, you immediately learn the lessons about why it doesn't work and you can prevent it going forward.
00:22:59.730 --> 00:23:08.130
Umstitutional knowledge is uh one of the big benefits to working for yourself or in an organization that has a long history.
00:23:08.370 --> 00:23:15.570
Um and uh so once you have that, you become a better designer, a better engineer, your products get better.
00:23:15.730 --> 00:23:27.250
Um so it it's good to cultivate that knowledge uh for yourself and and not let someone else uh just hoard that uh that wisdom from you.
00:23:27.490 --> 00:23:31.570
Uh by making stuff yourself, you also control the schedule.
00:23:31.810 --> 00:23:42.529
Um, if you work in like a small town or a mid-sized town and and things aren't super busy and local shops are hungry for work, you can absolutely get stuff made pretty quickly.
00:23:42.690 --> 00:23:50.769
But if you're in a city like Los Angeles, you might one day find yourself at the back of a line if a big client comes in and they monopolize the shop for a week.
00:23:51.009 --> 00:23:55.490
And if you're not floating inventory as an entrepreneur, that's a big deal.
00:23:55.730 --> 00:24:01.490
So doing things in-house gives you more control in terms of quality and schedule.
00:24:01.810 --> 00:24:05.570
Um on the flip side, one person can only do so much.
00:24:05.650 --> 00:24:11.090
And a CNC can help free up some of your time, but you still need to load the machine, you need to do cleanup.
00:24:11.170 --> 00:24:13.250
If you're doing wood, you probably have to sand it.
00:24:13.330 --> 00:24:15.730
Um, and you also have to run your business.
00:24:16.049 --> 00:24:21.970
And so doing everything in-house means you're suddenly responsible for a lot more stuff.
00:24:22.130 --> 00:24:24.529
Uh, where do you source your material from?
00:24:24.930 --> 00:24:27.410
Do you need a metal part product uh powder coated?
00:24:27.650 --> 00:24:28.690
Do you bring that in-house?
00:24:28.769 --> 00:24:29.810
Do you outsource that?
00:24:29.890 --> 00:24:36.130
Um now you have to manually manage miscellaneous stuff, like making sure you have enough nuts and bolts to assemble your products.
00:24:36.370 --> 00:24:43.170
Uh and sure, if you're a solo entrepreneur, you could always increase bandwidth by adding an employee, but then you have to worry about their overhead.
00:24:43.250 --> 00:24:46.769
And if things slow down, are you emotionally prepared to lay them off?
00:24:46.930 --> 00:24:53.490
Um so it can be really rewarding to do everything in-house, but it also forces you to step up your game in many ways.
00:24:53.570 --> 00:24:55.250
Um, so that can be scary.
00:24:55.410 --> 00:25:01.330
If you have the right mindset though, I would say it would allow you to put out the best product possible.
00:25:01.490 --> 00:25:09.170
Um, and so I'm also curious to hear your experience too, because you do in-house manufacturing, how has that worked out for you?
00:25:09.490 --> 00:25:10.130
Absolutely.
00:25:10.289 --> 00:25:12.930
One of the things, yeah, I've got a couple things here.
00:25:13.170 --> 00:25:15.890
One is uh minimum order quantity.
00:25:16.049 --> 00:25:25.490
Typically, if you order from just say somebody on Alibaba, they're going to say a thousand units MOQ.
00:25:25.810 --> 00:25:31.890
And if you want to launch that product, you really have to roll the dice on buying a thousand products.
00:25:32.210 --> 00:25:40.610
And so when I'm launching products, I would say three out of ten do really well.
00:25:41.730 --> 00:25:45.810
Three out of ten do okay, and then four are a bust.
00:25:45.970 --> 00:25:48.049
And that's I've got a pretty long track record.
00:25:48.130 --> 00:26:00.210
I've launched about three thousand products, and so when you order a thousand units and it's a bust, you have to walk by those every day in your warehouse, and they're just they haunt you.
00:26:00.450 --> 00:26:05.650
Now, I can launch a product with 10 units on with my CNC.
00:26:06.049 --> 00:26:09.090
And, you know, that's a I can do that launch on Amazon.
00:26:09.170 --> 00:26:11.250
And if those sell, then I can make 10 more.
00:26:11.490 --> 00:26:19.570
And so I can launch a much higher velocity of products using a CNC machine and and controlling it in-house.
00:26:19.810 --> 00:26:28.690
Now, if I launch a product and it pops and I'm selling 100 units a day, I'm gonna call big CNC shop and I'm gonna outsource that.
00:26:28.850 --> 00:26:41.970
And so I I use my shop as kind of the idea lab and the product launching lab, but I know with my four by four CNC machine, I have limits on how much I can do in a single day.
00:26:42.210 --> 00:26:46.690
And so that's I I would say that's been one of the biggest things.
00:26:46.930 --> 00:26:52.210
Now you mentioned a couple drawbacks, carrying cost of raw materials, making sure you have all the nuts and bolts.
00:26:52.529 --> 00:26:56.850
Typically, when you're ordering from a manufacturer, you tell them how many units you want.
00:26:56.930 --> 00:27:04.049
And then it's it's their burden to make sure they have all enough boxes, enough tape, and enough screws.
00:27:04.130 --> 00:27:12.049
And so with all of that falling onto the maker's lap, that does introduce some more complications.
00:27:12.210 --> 00:27:19.250
Um, however, easily over you can easily overcome them with a spreadsheet or just good planning.
00:27:19.970 --> 00:27:30.930
And so I I would and I would I would say the last thing is I I've na uh my CNC machine, his name's Jimmy.
00:27:31.090 --> 00:27:36.930
I just I named it, and Jimmy shows up on time every single day.
00:27:37.090 --> 00:27:40.210
He never calls in sick, he never's in a fight with his wife.
00:27:40.370 --> 00:27:41.810
He's just he's reliable.
00:27:41.970 --> 00:27:43.570
Jimmy's reliable.
00:27:43.970 --> 00:27:54.049
And when you have employees, which I have about 20, having that reliability in your life, it's it just it's so helpful.
00:27:54.210 --> 00:27:56.370
I mean, it is it's incredibly helpful.
00:27:56.610 --> 00:28:05.730
Um, and so yeah, I I could go on and on about that, but I would say it's definitely been from a financial standpoint, it's been a win.
00:28:05.810 --> 00:28:07.810
It's been a positive ROI investment.
00:28:08.210 --> 00:28:11.410
Um, you were talking about paying the machine off in a couple months.
00:28:11.570 --> 00:28:14.450
That's consistent with my my story.
00:28:14.610 --> 00:28:18.610
I think probably inside of three or four months was able to pay it off.
00:28:18.690 --> 00:28:22.210
And and everything on top of that has been prop very profitable.
00:28:22.370 --> 00:28:25.250
So no, but I appreciate you asking me the question.
00:28:25.490 --> 00:28:26.289
Yeah, no problem.
00:28:26.610 --> 00:28:31.490
And I think um one thing you mentioned about the the ROI.
00:28:31.570 --> 00:28:44.450
I think um just to speak to anyone who might be interested in a CNC machine, it's always a good idea to have an idea of what you want to make first, um, because that helps you laser focus on what you need to learn.
00:28:44.690 --> 00:28:54.690
Um because without kind of focusing what you're trying to soak up uh knowledge-wise, uh it's like drinking from a fire hose.
00:28:54.930 --> 00:29:01.250
But if you have an idea or a couple project ideas, you can kind of figure out, oh, how do I do these specific things?
00:29:01.410 --> 00:29:15.810
You you pick them up and then you execute on them, and now you've got a working CNC machine that's earning you money, and now you feel less pressure to add new skills to your toolbox, and and everything will kind of go from there.
00:29:16.130 --> 00:29:31.330
Um so absolutely, and I'll tell you, uh if we take that one step further, with AI imagery, you can prototype it, you can get an idea of what you want something to look like pretty well.
00:29:31.490 --> 00:29:33.410
You can get a postable image.
00:29:33.890 --> 00:29:38.930
And one thing that I always like to do, and I I I read this in a book by Scott Volker.
00:29:39.090 --> 00:29:42.850
He used to sell online courses, sold millions of online courses.
00:29:43.170 --> 00:29:47.890
He would not build the course until he had a pre-sale, until he had interest.
00:29:48.049 --> 00:29:49.810
He knew that he had interest.
00:29:50.049 --> 00:29:51.970
And if he did, then he would build the course.
00:29:52.130 --> 00:29:54.690
And I think the same is true on products.
00:29:55.090 --> 00:30:05.890
You can prototype an idea, engage with AI, and get a picture of what that would look like and post it in some Facebook groups and say, like, hey, what would you pay for this?
00:30:06.049 --> 00:30:08.370
Uh, is this something that you would buy for your pet?
00:30:08.450 --> 00:30:11.650
I have a pet supply company, and that's something that I do quite a bit.
00:30:12.049 --> 00:30:18.130
I there have been several things that I have thought are cool, but the market doesn't.
00:30:18.450 --> 00:30:20.610
And and that's a bummer.
00:30:20.769 --> 00:30:24.049
And so I I also am pretty risk averse.
00:30:24.289 --> 00:30:34.610
And so being able to get an indication of interest on an idea before I ever do any design, before I cut any prototypes, has been really helpful.
00:30:34.850 --> 00:30:41.090
And AI image generation is really helpful with that, and it's just getting better and better.
00:30:41.330 --> 00:30:42.769
So good to know.
00:30:42.850 --> 00:30:43.570
I'll have to try that out.
00:30:43.970 --> 00:30:45.090
A little pro tip, yeah.
00:30:45.330 --> 00:30:50.769
So um four, let's see.
00:30:53.970 --> 00:31:01.490
How do you see CNC shaping the future of manufacturing for entrepreneurs?
00:31:04.850 --> 00:31:08.130
That that can be a very deep question.
00:31:08.610 --> 00:31:19.890
Um I think there's a lot of different forces at play here and a lot of different fronts on which digital fabrication is kind of changing manufacturing for individuals and small businesses.
00:31:20.049 --> 00:31:30.130
Um and while CNC will always have a soft spot in my heart, I think it's it's one part of the picture, and we should look at the whole uh to kind of truly understand where things are going.
00:31:30.370 --> 00:31:35.009
Um, we've got a lot of tools and services that are getting better at a phenomenal rate.
00:31:35.090 --> 00:31:47.330
Uh look at 3D printing and how bamboo labs sort of broke open the floodgates to the point that now everyone and their grandma is able to run a 3D printer in their kitchen or something, um, or their living room.
00:31:47.410 --> 00:31:54.049
Uh, I used to have a living room machine shop, so I kind of like abusing uh rooms in your house.
00:31:54.289 --> 00:32:04.450
Um we have online services like send cut send, Oshcut Fabworks, and more that'll ship you sheet metal parts or custom tube cuts um in a couple days.
00:32:04.690 --> 00:32:10.690
And so the power you have nowadays when you want something and uh to have it made is incredible.
00:32:10.850 --> 00:32:16.610
And CNC definitely fits within kind of this revolution, um, but I think it's kind of a lag.
00:32:17.410 --> 00:32:19.009
Indicator for a couple reasons.
00:32:19.330 --> 00:32:24.529
When you look at 3D printing, a sizable chunk of what people make are things that someone else designed.
00:32:24.769 --> 00:32:32.049
You download it, you click print, and you pop it out of your printer in a couple hours, but there's not really a sense of creativity or ownership in something like that.
00:32:32.210 --> 00:32:38.690
That's not to say there aren't people who are very talented and design their own projects, but it's not a prerequisite.
00:32:38.930 --> 00:32:45.730
With a CNC, you can't really use one if you're not willing to learn the full workflow, CADCAM, and how to run the CNC.
00:32:47.250 --> 00:33:05.730
But with where things are going, uh with the desire to empower people to make things themselves and reshore manufacturing, there's definitely a growing need for people to be familiar with digital manufacturing technologies like that, and that knowledge is kind of a foundational skill or social currency, much like computer literacy was a decade ago.
00:33:06.210 --> 00:33:20.289
So even if you're just a hobbyist who makes charcuterie boards for their family on Christmas or something, you're now in this cycle of getting people used to the idea that anyone has the power to produce something of value without involving a big factory.
00:33:22.130 --> 00:33:34.690
That's a long-winded way of saying I don't really know what the future of manufacturing will look like 10 years from now, but it's my hope that we'll have many times more people participating in manufacturing at both the big and the small scale.
00:33:34.850 --> 00:33:38.610
And I think being CNC literate is a big step to getting there.
00:33:39.170 --> 00:33:39.970
Absolutely.
00:33:40.210 --> 00:33:40.690
Absolutely.
00:33:40.850 --> 00:33:43.410
I I think it gives power to the people.
00:33:43.810 --> 00:33:45.890
What that looks like, I'm not really sure.
00:33:46.049 --> 00:33:47.570
But I I do I agree.
00:33:47.650 --> 00:33:53.730
And I I hope participation continues to increase and and that would be good for the country.
00:33:53.890 --> 00:33:59.090
I can tell you, as an individual, it is so nice to look at what you did at the end of the day.
00:33:59.170 --> 00:34:00.049
I made that.
00:34:00.930 --> 00:34:05.890
It's so much better than ordering something from somebody else, relying on somebody else.
00:34:06.289 --> 00:34:07.810
It's showing up in a box.
00:34:07.970 --> 00:34:09.170
You may or may not like it.
00:34:09.250 --> 00:34:13.250
And so, yeah, I think the future's bright, certainly.
00:34:13.650 --> 00:34:20.690
So for somebody listening to this who's interested in adding CNC capabilities, they're peeking over the fence.
00:34:20.849 --> 00:34:22.210
This looks good over there.
00:34:22.449 --> 00:34:23.889
What should they invest in first?
00:34:24.049 --> 00:34:25.489
Should they, is it the equipment?
00:34:25.570 --> 00:34:27.809
Is it the software, the skill development?
00:34:27.889 --> 00:34:29.730
What would you recommend somebody does?
00:34:32.130 --> 00:34:34.690
So those are all important things.
00:34:35.009 --> 00:34:41.329
I think the most important thing to start with, as we touched on earlier, is to have a plan, something you want to make.
00:34:41.489 --> 00:34:48.130
Um, because without something to guide your learning, you can very easily get lost in everything that's out there.
00:34:48.369 --> 00:34:52.210
Um it's easy to pick equipment.
00:34:52.289 --> 00:34:54.210
You can shop with a spreadsheet if if you like.
00:34:54.289 --> 00:34:56.369
I do that for cars and stuff like that.
00:34:56.529 --> 00:34:59.409
Um, there's a couple different software options out there.
00:34:59.570 --> 00:35:03.489
Um, and then developing your skills is something that'll just happen over time.
00:35:03.650 --> 00:35:05.489
No one starts out an expert.
00:35:05.730 --> 00:35:19.969
Um and after you have just enough of a foundation of knowledge, when you have like um, like let's say there's a thing you want to make, let's say it's, I don't know, a cutting board or something, you learn some basic skills and then you start building on them.
00:35:20.210 --> 00:35:22.849
And I think everything will fall into place.
00:35:23.329 --> 00:35:28.529
Um it's just it's easier when you have something to grasp at.
00:35:28.769 --> 00:35:36.369
And if you buy a machine without that kind of focus, um you you could end up in a lot of trouble.
00:35:36.449 --> 00:35:45.009
You might end up as one of those people who, like, I bought a machine, it's just been sitting in my garage for the past eight months, and I've been tinkering with it and not really making any progress.
00:35:45.250 --> 00:35:56.130
Um, so yeah, having a point of focus um around which your learning revolves, I think, will make um that process a lot easier.
00:35:56.369 --> 00:36:05.730
Um but again, it it might be worth just to kind of highlight some of those uh the skills that that you'd need again.
00:36:05.889 --> 00:36:15.009
I don't know if that's outside the scope of the the podcast, but we could totally dive into like, oh, what does it actually look like to design for CNC or this or that?
00:36:15.250 --> 00:36:17.489
Um maybe it's something best left for another time.
00:36:17.730 --> 00:36:19.730
We'll we'll yeah, we'll have to have you back on.
00:36:19.809 --> 00:36:26.289
I could talk CNC all day long um and and cover that topic, but I I think that's really, really helpful.
00:36:26.449 --> 00:36:30.769
Um, and I personally I've got a rule.
00:36:30.929 --> 00:36:32.289
This is a personal rule.
00:36:32.529 --> 00:36:38.929
If I watch YouTube on how to do something, like what's the best CNC machine?
00:36:39.169 --> 00:36:43.329
If I invest 15 hours, I have to execute.
00:36:43.809 --> 00:36:50.449
Like I I I'm not gonna sit on the sidelines for more than 15 hours and watch other people do it.
00:36:50.609 --> 00:36:52.529
And so for me, it was education.
00:36:52.609 --> 00:36:57.329
It was checking out your channels, checking out some other channels, figuring out what was a good fit.
00:36:57.569 --> 00:37:04.210
But I think waiting to purchase a CNC machine until the discomfort leaves, uh, you'll never buy one.
00:37:04.449 --> 00:37:09.169
And and so um jumping in to anybody listening, just do it.
00:37:09.489 --> 00:37:10.129
Just jump in.
00:37:10.210 --> 00:37:11.969
I would I definitely encourage you to do it.
00:37:12.129 --> 00:37:17.169
So um all right, last question before we get into the fire round.
00:37:17.409 --> 00:37:22.769
You've built a strong online brand around education, design, and craftsmanship.
00:37:23.089 --> 00:37:30.609
What lessons about community and content creation would you share with the entrepreneurs trying to build their own audience and their own products?
00:37:32.049 --> 00:37:34.049
Okay, that's kind of interesting to me.
00:37:34.129 --> 00:37:40.449
Um, because if you're in a position to cultivate an audience, that means you have some kind of narrative to weave.
00:37:40.690 --> 00:37:51.409
Um for me, because I have a unique financial freedom to put passion and curiosity above all else, I'm able to kind of approach this from uh the opposite direction.
00:37:51.569 --> 00:37:57.809
Um I started by making videos first, growing an audience, and then leveraging that as marketing.
00:37:57.969 --> 00:38:10.529
Um in the beginning, when I was just getting started in my garage, I'd make some things, sell them through Etsy, and eventually I got to a point where I could just sell them on my own website and use my YouTube videos to basically announce a product drop.
00:38:10.769 --> 00:38:16.609
Um if you're gonna use content as a marketing tool, though, I think there's a couple prerequisites.
00:38:16.849 --> 00:38:18.690
First, you gotta be passionate about it.
00:38:18.849 --> 00:38:21.250
If you're not a fan of what you're making, it won't sell.
00:38:21.489 --> 00:38:24.929
And that also probably means you're not going to be selling a commodity item.
00:38:25.009 --> 00:38:26.289
You've got to find your niche.
00:38:26.529 --> 00:38:31.730
Mine was aerospace-inspired drink coasters, which is quite an odd place to be.
00:38:31.969 --> 00:38:34.769
Um, second, is you kind of need a narrative.
00:38:34.849 --> 00:38:36.769
Uh, like why did you make the thing you made?
00:38:36.849 --> 00:38:38.690
What drove your design choices?
00:38:38.849 --> 00:38:41.409
Um, there's a company I admire called uh Craig Hill.
00:38:41.489 --> 00:38:43.730
They've got almost half a million followers on Instagram.
00:38:43.889 --> 00:38:46.049
They do new takes on everyday things.
00:38:46.210 --> 00:38:49.009
They're kind of trying to reinvent the wheel, so to speak.
00:38:49.169 --> 00:38:54.609
And you absolutely don't need to buy anything they sell, but you can't help but respect what they're doing.
00:38:54.769 --> 00:38:57.489
Uh the videos they make almost kind of feel like Kickstarter pitches.
00:38:57.569 --> 00:38:59.009
And for me, it kind of works.
00:38:59.169 --> 00:39:01.809
I haven't bought anything, but I really like their stuff.
00:39:01.969 --> 00:39:08.929
Um, so if content's going to be a big part of your strategy, make sure you find a niche that you can create a good story within.
00:39:09.489 --> 00:39:10.129
Awesome.
00:39:10.289 --> 00:39:10.849
I love that.
00:39:11.009 --> 00:39:12.289
I I really, really like that.
00:39:12.369 --> 00:39:20.210
And and for I'll post links to it in the show notes, but to anybody interested, check out Winston's uh face, or excuse me, uh his YouTube channel.
00:39:20.289 --> 00:39:21.250
It's outstanding.
00:39:21.409 --> 00:39:26.529
Uh you put out really good content and and good for beginners, intermediate, and advanced.
00:39:26.690 --> 00:39:31.250
So uh anything LCNC related that we didn't cover?
00:39:34.049 --> 00:39:38.449
You know, that's that's a big question because I there's plenty of stuff we didn't cover.
00:39:38.609 --> 00:39:46.609
Um, but I think it's it's kind of a good enough sampler um for people to kind of kind of just start mulling over.
00:39:46.849 --> 00:39:54.769
Um I think the the big thing really is just if you're thinking about it, ask yourself why you haven't made the jump yet.
00:39:54.929 --> 00:40:28.690
Um, because um I can I can speak from my company, Carbide 3D, that there is so much information out there that A, you could easily hit that 15-hour threshold of research and have no excuse not to jump into it, but there is genuinely enough curricula out there that no matter where you come from, a technical background, uh like an art background, or even just like barely computer literate, um, we've got uh tutorials and videos that will literally walk you through click by click how to do uh a bunch of different projects.
00:40:28.929 --> 00:40:44.369
Um so I think it's worth just kind of asking yourself, what is that um that hump you're trying to get over, that that hesitation, that reluctance, um, and see if there's something out there that addresses it, because I bet you there is.
00:40:44.690 --> 00:40:45.489
Absolutely.
00:40:45.730 --> 00:40:46.210
Absolutely.
00:40:46.369 --> 00:40:48.049
I really, really like that answer.
00:40:48.210 --> 00:40:50.129
It's a good way to button up the interview.
00:40:50.289 --> 00:40:56.129
So before we do, we have something called the fire rounds, four questions we ask everybody at the end of the episode.
00:40:56.369 --> 00:40:57.250
You ready?
00:40:57.489 --> 00:40:57.969
Mm-hmm.
00:40:58.210 --> 00:41:00.369
All right, what's your favorite book?
00:41:01.089 --> 00:41:05.489
So, right now I'm diving into um the expanse series.
00:41:05.649 --> 00:41:09.169
Uh, I watched the this it's a sci-fi um series.
00:41:09.329 --> 00:41:13.649
There was also a TV show about it, and I watched the TV show first and I was captivated.
00:41:13.730 --> 00:41:25.969
It's like Star Trek and Star Wars, but taken to an extreme level, slightly more quote unquote realistic with physics and space and stuff, and it it scratched the nerd, geek, engineer niche, uh, itch in my brain.
00:41:26.129 --> 00:41:29.089
Um, so that's that's what I've been reading.
00:41:29.169 --> 00:41:33.169
Well, after I listen to it on audiobooks uh when I walk my dogs.
00:41:33.569 --> 00:41:34.289
Very nice.
00:41:34.529 --> 00:41:35.009
Very nice.
00:41:35.169 --> 00:41:36.690
What are your hobbies?
00:41:37.649 --> 00:41:39.569
So I don't really have a hobby.
00:41:39.730 --> 00:41:43.169
I'm not really sure where my day job ends and a hobby begins.
00:41:43.250 --> 00:41:45.089
Um, and I consider that a blessing.
00:41:45.250 --> 00:41:51.009
I've got friends who work in manufacturing and they'll come home and they have no desire to design or make anything.
00:41:51.089 --> 00:41:55.169
Um and so far I've been able to avoid that sort of creative burnout.
00:41:55.250 --> 00:41:57.250
Um, so I can just lean into that.
00:41:57.329 --> 00:42:00.609
But I guess around the house I uh do a little bit of gardening.
00:42:00.769 --> 00:42:03.649
I guess it I consider it just engineering my own environment.
00:42:03.809 --> 00:42:06.210
So um I'll call it a hobby.
00:42:06.529 --> 00:42:07.169
I like it.
00:42:07.329 --> 00:42:08.289
I like it.
00:42:08.609 --> 00:42:12.289
What is one thing you do not miss about working for the man?
00:42:13.169 --> 00:42:14.049
That's easy.
00:42:14.210 --> 00:42:16.929
Um, the the delayed gratification cycle.
00:42:17.089 --> 00:42:28.129
Um so I used to work uh for the Department of the Navy in a civilian capacity, and we were basically creating tools to help sailors uh do their jobs.
00:42:28.369 --> 00:42:31.089
It could be to make their jobs easier, to make their jobs safer.
00:42:31.250 --> 00:42:49.169
And while I think that that's critically important and worthwhile, um by the time we got between the time it took for us to get the project requirements to a product in a sailor's hand and to learning whether or not that made a difference, took nine months, twelve months, sixteen months.
00:42:49.489 --> 00:42:54.289
And it that kind of just it it wasn't satisfying.
00:42:54.449 --> 00:43:05.969
Um when I make a YouTube video these days, um I'll put it out, someone can comment, hey, thanks for the great idea, I've got to try this, or um like, hey, like you inspired me to try this myself.
00:43:06.210 --> 00:43:09.809
I can close that gratification loop in a matter of minutes or hours.
00:43:09.969 --> 00:43:17.569
And I know that impact has a long tail because people keep finding that videos um just over time, months, years down the road.
00:43:17.730 --> 00:43:22.690
And for me, like that is like deeply satisfying.
00:43:22.849 --> 00:43:28.769
Um, or like I've had people come to me when I'm working a trade show or something and say, like, hey, you're the reason I got into CNC.
00:43:29.009 --> 00:43:34.609
Or your videos helped me when I was in engineering school and and helped me get through that.
00:43:34.849 --> 00:43:41.169
Um, like that for me is ultimately like the mark of success.
00:43:41.409 --> 00:43:46.609
To know that you had a positive impact on other people's lives doesn't get much better than that.
00:43:46.690 --> 00:43:51.089
And again, that comes from a place where I'm fortunate enough to have a day job that pays the bills.
00:43:51.329 --> 00:43:58.690
Um, so I don't need to sell physical product or project plans or anything to make ends meet.
00:43:58.769 --> 00:44:02.849
Um, so I get to just focus on trying to help people.
00:44:03.969 --> 00:44:04.609
Absolutely.
00:44:04.769 --> 00:44:05.809
I really like that answer.
00:44:05.889 --> 00:44:06.609
And it comes through.
00:44:06.769 --> 00:44:07.569
And it comes through.
00:44:07.649 --> 00:44:10.769
I am on the list of people that you've helped, and I really appreciate it.
00:44:11.009 --> 00:44:12.210
It's nice to meet you.
00:44:12.449 --> 00:44:14.049
Well, it's gratifying to hear it.
00:44:14.609 --> 00:44:15.969
So, final question.
00:44:16.129 --> 00:44:21.969
What do you think sets apart successful entrepreneurs from those who give up, fail, or never get started?
00:44:23.250 --> 00:44:27.409
There's an obvious answer, which is like grit determination.
00:44:27.730 --> 00:44:35.250
And for some people that that might be the case, but I don't think I'm qualified to make a blanket statement like that.
00:44:35.409 --> 00:44:38.210
I can only speak for people whose brains are wired like mine.
00:44:38.369 --> 00:44:47.089
So kind of fueled part by curiosity, part by creativity, um, but also easily caught up in and bogged down by the minutiae and details.
00:44:47.329 --> 00:44:55.409
Um, there's a saying among engineers and maybe some other people in industry, a project is never truly finished, only shipped.
00:44:55.569 --> 00:45:01.250
Um, because if you give us infinite time to ideate and iterate, we'll just keep engineering.
00:45:01.409 --> 00:45:07.889
And if you don't know when to short circuit that impulse, you'll either end up late to the market or never reach the market.
00:45:08.049 --> 00:45:15.409
And and there's a flip side to that, which is you might launch something half-baked, and that could be a death sentence for an entrepreneur, but at least you can recover from that.
00:45:15.489 --> 00:45:20.769
And if you address those shortcomings in your product effectively, like you'll be in a good spot.
00:45:21.009 --> 00:45:31.409
Um, so if your brains are wired like mine, like if you've got engineer brain, um, you're probably more concerned about things like overcoming design spirals and scope creep.
00:45:31.649 --> 00:45:40.289
And the ability to brainstorm a comprehensive but still realistic plan, uh be it for a product or business, I think is critical.
00:45:40.449 --> 00:45:50.849
And knowing when you need to stop, when you need to get out of your head and start executing to that plan, I think is what separates a lot of successful from unsuccessful people.
00:45:51.489 --> 00:45:52.289
I like it.
00:45:52.449 --> 00:45:53.409
I like it.
00:45:53.730 --> 00:45:56.529
Winston, thank you so much for being a guest on the show.
00:45:56.769 --> 00:46:01.169
If people are interested in getting in touch with you or checking out your content, what's the best way?
00:46:01.649 --> 00:46:06.690
Um, I would say check out uh my YouTube channel, uh just Winston Makes.
00:46:06.769 --> 00:46:09.730
Um I'm on Instagram, same handle.
00:46:09.809 --> 00:46:18.129
Uh, and you can also follow along with the uh other project videos I do on the Carbide 3D YouTube channel because I also put out some stuff there.
00:46:18.449 --> 00:46:19.250
Outstanding.
00:46:19.489 --> 00:46:20.049
Outstanding.
00:46:20.210 --> 00:46:23.329
Winston, thank you so much for your time and looking forward to staying in touch.
00:46:23.489 --> 00:46:24.210
Yeah, my pleasure.
00:46:24.289 --> 00:46:27.169
I can't wait till uh we get the chance to do this again.