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00:00:04.799Hello and welcome to Designer Discussions with Jason and Miriam.
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00:00:12.480Our guest today is Lauren Scherber, the owner of Castle Building and Remodeling in the Twin Cities.
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00:00:19.199Welcome to the Designer Discussions podcast with Jason and Miriam.
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00:00:26.000Tune in each week where we talk about marketing PR and business advice for design professionals.
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00:00:28.640Thanks, Miriam.
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00:00:30.160We're happy to be here with Lauren.
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00:00:34.560Lauren, if you would just introduce yourself to our guests so they can know who you are.
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00:00:35.359Sure.
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00:00:36.880My name is Lauren Sherber.
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00:00:41.280I'm the second generation owner of Castle Building and Remodeling in Minneapolis, St.
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00:00:41.840Paul.
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00:00:46.399Got about 30 employees, do a lot of kitchens, baths, basements.
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00:00:48.000Interiors are our specialty.
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00:00:49.520We do a few additions.
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00:00:54.640We do small projects, um, up to really big whole house remodels.
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00:01:01.119We want to talk about a lot today because when we had the intro car last week, we talked about a lot in terms of AI and all that.
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00:01:02.479We want to get into all that.
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00:01:06.319But what I want to talk about first, you said second generation.
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00:01:12.400So talk a little bit about actually having to take over the firm from someone else and what that's like.
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00:01:13.519Sure, yeah.
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00:01:34.799Uh my dad started the company in 1977 after he had worked for other uh contractors and thought I could do this better than them, and uh went out on his own and put out his shingle and um you know worked for many years like uh out of an office and then for a while out of our house when I was growing up, out of the basement, there'd be employees coming and going.
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00:01:46.719And uh he got me uh kind of dragged along to some job sites when I was, you know, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, and and had uh kind of this vision of me being a carpenter or working for the company.
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00:02:00.719And um, you know, I think I picked up shingles on a job site for a couple weeks, uh basically long enough uh pushing that wheelbarrow and pitchforking shingles off the ground to uh decide that I was gonna buy a car and get a job somewhere else.
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00:02:03.840Um and so uh that lasted a couple weeks.
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00:02:07.040I said, this manual labors, not for me, dad.
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00:02:38.560Um and uh learned and I started doing some I worked at a nursing home for a year, but then I did sales at Circuit City and just loved uh talking to people and selling and stuff and ended up going to school for marketing and entrepreneurship and worked in the corporate world a couple years and then joined my dad's business because it was a good entrepreneurial opportunity when I was getting my MBA and um it's uh it's like really fun to work in a small business after I'd come out of the corporate world for a year or two.
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00:02:52.000Um that uh family business you can really get things done, or in small business, you know, like if you want to do something today, you can do it today, and it doesn't have to be a hundred meetings, and so yeah, working together with my dad was interesting and fun.
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00:02:53.120I learned a lot, you know.
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00:03:18.080There was a lot of like, you know, kind of him saying, like, we've already tried that, it didn't work, or you know, like um he had different you know theories on ways to do things, and so there was a little bit of head button on on uh, you know, I I thought I knew a lot about marketing, and he thought I didn't know anything about remodeling, you know, so uh which was true, but I was willing to go out and talk to people and come back and ask questions and stuff.
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00:03:26.800So um rather than uh have a ladder rack on my truck and get up on people's roof, I was doing helping with more sales and marketing.
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00:03:36.879And so uh when we joined when I joined the business, we were in my dad's basement and doing a half million dollars a year in revenue, um more exteriors and roofs and things like that.
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00:03:48.879And over the years, um we grew little by little, um, which when you're half a million dollars in revenue, like growing by 130 grand or something is 30%, you know.
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00:03:50.879So it's but it can be one more job.
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00:04:01.120So we eventually hired a designer and then opened a design studio and um kind of got out of the basement, and people in the neighborhood said, Oh, welcome to the neighborhood.
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00:04:03.360We've said, We've been here, but now you know.
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00:04:13.280So that kind of first physical location was really like um helped us get a lot more leads, and we saw the potential of kind of having a a design studio.
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00:04:20.399Um, and and you know, from an employee standpoint, like going to somebody's basement to work or whatever is not not ideal.
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00:04:24.319Um, so it really helped kind of take us up to the next level.
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00:04:34.560And my dad and I worked together for about five or six years, and we kind of ended up buttonheads a little too much of both wanting to be in charge and both thinking we knew the right way to do things.
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00:04:43.680And um, you know, I'd say like I had kind of like the MBA brain and training, and and um I was like, everybody's gotta have their role.
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00:04:45.759We need systems and processes, we need to focus.
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00:04:53.040I think he had been doing it for 30 years, and he's like, Yeah, but I really want to do this really unique job um over here because it's different and it's new.
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00:04:57.920And and I think he was kind of the nucleus where it was like all things revolve around him.
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00:05:10.079And I'm like, that's not a scalable model, you know, like and it's not a not a real model to like clone you and say we're gonna have a second, you know, like person who does sales and project management and overseas design.
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00:05:18.959And so we kind of broke things down a little bit more, but ultimately uh to save our holidays and get along, like we decided to break up.
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00:05:24.959Um I would say like that it's not easy to break up with your dad or your business partner.
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00:05:30.800Um, you know, you're kind of talking about ideas and options of how to do it, and like all of the options kind of seem bad.
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00:05:35.199So it's one of those least worst-case scenario uh talks, basically.
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00:05:45.920Like, how do we how do we split things up and go our separate ways and both be amicable and like come to a solution that works for him financially and works for me financially?
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00:05:55.600And uh ultimately like uh that that building went to my dad and he became the landlord and got some uh assets, and I became the blue sky.
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00:06:06.240I got the name, the employees, the phone number, the past customer lists, and um kind of got into a business at a low, low-down payment of uh, you know, kind of work for equity, basically.
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00:06:22.079So I was lucky to be able to join a family business, help grow it, um, invest my time and not get paid and kind of get some equity and then eventually uh my dad worked a few more years, uh kind of running a small remodeling business.
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00:06:32.160And I thought he'd never retire, but he retired and is enjoying himself and traveling and you know, going up to the North Shore and seeing the Great Lakes and seeing the world.
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00:06:33.920So it's worked out.
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00:06:38.720Uh and I we keep making our payment to him for the building, and he gets to retire.
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00:06:42.160So now in the milestones, I've been doing it half my life.
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00:06:46.560So that's kind of like uh crazy to think about.
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00:06:47.199Okay.
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00:06:48.079Good deal.
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00:06:55.120So now that we have a little bit of the history, let's talk about where you are today and how has AI changed what you do.
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00:06:55.839Sure.
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00:07:09.920Yeah, so where we're at today is we've got four design studios, I've got a team of about 30 folks, I've got drafters and four interior designers, one person who spells spells special projects or you know, smaller projects that are less design driven.
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00:07:22.480I've got some project managers, like four project managers, and a warehouse manager and a production manager, and about 15 carpenters in the field who do drywall, tile, paint, trim, finish work, framing.
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00:07:24.560So we do a lot of the work ourselves.
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00:07:29.360So AI though, um, I'm relatively new on the AI train.
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00:07:36.480Um, you know, maybe about six, eight months ago, uh, when we got our new CRM, I started kind of really playing with it and embracing it.
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00:08:01.040And um, you know, in a big picture, like I think AAI agents um that we've been able to train to kind of like help interact with people on our website that are wanting to set up a phone call or who call in and we're not able to answer, uh, then have an AI agent set up that talks to them and gets their information and helps schedule a phone call with me um for an upcoming date.
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00:08:04.800And so those have been the biggest things I'd say.
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00:08:23.920Um, not that the AI agents have like replaced employees or anything, but they've kind of supplemented and uh allowed us to connect with clients and opportunities that we might have missed before because we used to have a lot of folks who would leave us a voicemail and we'd call them back and not get them and never end up connecting.
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00:08:54.639So now, you know, it may not make sense to have a 24-hour answering service, but you know, an AI agent can be there to answer anytime and uh not too much work to kind of program them or kind of upload documents and point them towards your website and train them and um get them up to speed on what they should say and shouldn't say and um facilitate those conversations or get people connected um or get the get the get the initial consultation schedule anyways.
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00:08:57.279That's been where we've had the most success.
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00:09:23.440Um I've played around with a whole bunch of other AI stuff, um and there's some amazing like you know, I'm big into workflows and systems and everything, and so using kind of AI to like set up those workflows and systems and connect the different like software um has been another area where I've had success, just to be able to like say, type in kind of layman's terms.
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00:09:24.559This is what I'm trying to do.
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00:09:46.000I'm trying to, you know, connect this data from the CRM to this platform and SharePoint where we have operations, and I want it to do this, and you know, um, it's pretty this zapier is pretty amazing, like uh where you can kind of like explain what you want the zap to do and it'll start to code it all and make the changes and ask you, would you rather have it do this or that?
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00:09:47.200I need you to approve this.
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00:09:52.320You say okay, and it starts doing it all, and it's just like, wow, the future's here.
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00:10:02.879So now talk to us about how your team has embraced AI because what we talked about last time is that you had talked to your team about how you use AI to train them, not replace them.
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00:10:10.080And that's something I hear a lot in the industry that a lot of design and remodeling professionals are afraid that AI will replace them.
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00:10:15.360But you talked about how you use it to train your staff and enhance what they do, not to replace them.
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00:10:17.279So, you know, just talk a little bit about that.
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00:10:18.159Sure, yeah.
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00:10:20.399No, there's definitely a lot of apprehension.
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00:10:30.960Um, you know, I think some of the team members are kind of concerned about the environment and water usage and electrical costs going up and how AI is gonna affect our future.
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00:10:41.440And and I think there's a maybe some contempt for the idea that like AI could do their job or you know, come up with a kitchen layout or help make the right suggestion for countertops.
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00:10:47.679Um so that's kind of you know the starting point, I'd say, for some of the employees.
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00:11:00.159I mean, other employees maybe say, Oh, yeah, I've been trying it out, and I, you know, used it to quickly show what this backsplash tile would look like on this kitchen, you know, or like people wanted to know what this grout would look like on that tile.
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00:11:09.120And like we used to have to make a sample board and grout it and show them, and now I can like quickly show them what three different grouts would look like on the tile.
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00:11:21.919And so I think people are starting to embrace um embrace it a little bit, you know, that you a little bit you have to because the clients are coming to you and saying, like, I I put together this thing with three windows on this wall, and that's what I want it to look like.
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00:11:22.879And can you do this?
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00:11:27.600Or can you put together this glass railing like I like AI came up with, right?
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00:11:31.679You know, so um, so you kind of got to be able to do the same thing back.
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00:11:33.279So we're seeing that.
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00:11:37.120And then I guess uh yeah, what I'm just trying to get across to employees is like that.
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00:11:43.679I think that AI is here to help make them better employees, more productive employees, help save them time.
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00:12:01.200Um, a good example would be like they could spend like two hours in Chief Architect, like adding like plants and tables and furniture and doing a high-quality rendering that takes the computer like hours to run to get a you know printworthy picture.
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00:12:13.519Or we can take a relatively simple rendering and put it into AI and say, you know, make this look like a photo and add you know appliances on the countertop, and in a minute you've got like a really nice uh updated picture.
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00:12:23.279Um so I think those are some of the um time-saving things that that the team is starting to play with.
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00:12:32.000Um on the production side, we've been playing with some tools like that help compare plans and specs and so find discrepancies.
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00:12:42.639You know, this one says two by eight framing, and that one says two by ten framing, or uh this says peer footings, and that says, you know, eight peer footings, and this says six peer footings, which one is it?
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00:12:50.320So um there's a tool that a friend of mine created uh called Construct AI, Michael Anchel, put that together.
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00:13:00.399We've been testing that out and then just testing that against like Claude or other LLMs that um you know ask it to do the same thing, see which one works better.
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00:13:05.039Um at a minimum, like it might catch some things that you we didn't catch.
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00:13:09.919Um, but we are thinking about trying to build our own tool just to keep our data private.
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00:13:18.879Uh so far we've been kind of like looking back at projects and uploading things and saying, would this have caught that mistake that we know ended up costing us money?
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00:13:31.519Um and sometimes it would have caught it, you know, that this says 43-inch mirror, not a standard size 42-inch mirror, and we've got the pricing in for the 42-inch mirror, not the 43-inch custom mirror.
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00:13:38.960So those are the kind of things that would be uh, you know, you start looking at eight pages of plans and seven pages of scope.
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00:13:48.080It's easy, you know, if if you're a project manager, you've got two days to review this project and get up to speed, and you know, it's gonna be hard to catch all those things.
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00:13:54.480So yeah, those tools I think are what AI are really good at is reviewing, comparing.
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00:13:55.279Okay.
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00:14:04.879So what you've heard from your team in terms of what AI is doing in terms you had talked about how how it helps you on the call side to answer calls and do that, helps you with reviewing of the documents.
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00:14:07.840What have you heard from your team has helped them save the most time?
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00:14:12.080It's been slow on the uh on the embrace, you know.
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00:14:14.720I think it's really been on a marketing side of things, right?
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00:14:37.440You know, like uh for me personally, like it's been nice to have like say um call summaries, like if I if I hit record when I'm on my CRM and uh my initial phone call with the folks are um recorded in the CRM, and then you can pull up a summary, and like you know, my salespeople might be like, Okay, I saw we got this project coming up, you know, what's this all about?
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00:14:45.679And I can kind of say, here's the summary, or here's the recording, like go back and listen to this, or you know, here's the some summarized points.
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00:14:49.840Um I'd say that's been a nice time saver.
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00:15:00.320Um I think it's just like you know, only so many people come to your website and try to contact you, and so like that, you know, you lose conversions with people leaving voicemails and stuff.
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00:15:10.159So it's just making sure you're getting each person through those steps um and and booked or a call scheduled um is probably the most valuable.
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00:15:22.960Um not a huge time I mean it's a time savings in that somebody doesn't have to be there to answer the phone um you know, all hours of the day or so yeah, that's definitely been a been time savings.
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00:15:25.759Um I've spent a lot of time on it, you know, playing with things.
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00:15:27.279There's a lot of trial and error.
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00:15:40.080And um I'd say that you know, the the key part I think is like testing and and using logic and like you know, if somebody tells you they left a message and you're like, what message are you talking about?
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00:15:42.399It's like it's out there somewhere, like what am I missing?
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00:15:49.360What's not connected, what email didn't notify me that I got a voicemail that I missed, or what voice, you know, what email box is this going to?
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00:15:53.600Um and then there's you know transcripts and all this stuff is digital.
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00:16:13.840So like looking back at the AI agents and seeing how they're handling those calls and figuring out maybe why there's confusion or why this customer, you know, thought we were coming out when we were really giving them a phone call, those kind of things, like um, and then going back and retraining to say, you know, we're only booking phone calls, not home appointments.
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00:16:27.840Don't tell people we'll come out there, you know, or going back and changing the pop-up widget so it says schedule a call, you know, just making making what you're asking them to do as clear as possible, um, so that people aren't confused.
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00:16:40.080Because uh you know, uh the AI is getting pretty good where some of these you know phone calls, like three, four minutes into the phone call, uh the person's like, hey, wait, are you an AI agent?
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00:16:52.639You know, um, so it's pretty good that the AI agent can like kind of fool them for that long, or at le you know, it's not obvious a hundred percent that this is you know a computer you're talking to.
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00:16:54.960So it's been good.
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00:16:55.440Yeah.
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00:16:56.399Awesome.
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00:17:08.319So you talked about the marketing side and you actually have a background in marketing from how you used to do marketing with the company when you started, how has it changed to w how you do marketing now?
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00:17:13.200Yeah, when I joined my dad's business, he he didn't do a ton of marketing.
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00:17:16.400Um, it was a lot of past customers and referrals.
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00:17:30.960Um so at the time it might have been, you know, reaching out to past customers or sending out a Christmas card, um, you know, a sign on the side of a vehicle, job signs in the front yard, sponsor a local baseball team, something like that.
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00:17:53.599Um and I think what out shortly after we maybe started putting some print ads in the local newspaper um just to get our name out there, um things started to really change or pick up when we did open up that storefront um or the design studio, uh, just because I like permanent signage.
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00:18:05.519Like if you spend you know six thousand dollars on a box sign or a backlit sign or something like that, uh it's there for like 20, 25 years and sure, you know, you eventually got to replace LED lights or fix something.
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00:18:26.640But the 8,000 or 10, I kind of use try to use real estate as a uh asset where like if I'm gonna have a design studio, it should be in a nice neighborhood where I want jobs and where there's like 8,000, 10,000, 12,000 cars a day going by, like on an Arduino, a highway or at a stoplight where people are gonna have to stop and see my purple awnings.
00:18:26.640 -->
00:18:34.319Um so you know, that was kind of the first shift in like how we marketed or got leads.
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00:18:43.119Um, and that you know, originally is more of a physical presence in the neighborhood, like um being known because people drive by every day is definitely helpful.
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00:18:52.480Um, over the years, our four locations have really made like uh like a lot of our Google searches, fortunately or unfortunately, are like for our name, basically.
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00:18:58.880Where I could do better is in the like kitchen remodeler Minneapolis or basement remodeler St.
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00:18:59.759Paul.
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00:19:05.599Um, and I'm working on that, you know, SEO, AEO kind of being found more.
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00:19:12.319Um but yeah, so that made me a little bit lazy is just having all those people like find us or know us.
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00:19:17.759Um but yeah, over time really like the marketing has shifted much more to like digital marketing.
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00:20:15.759Um I've had more epiphanies lately on like the it's not that like the traditional advertising methods don't work, like you can put an ad in the local newspaper, and people will you know come to your event and they will come to your open house and meet with a designer, those kind of things, but um it's just getting a little bit worse each year, or like I have a lot of competitors who love uh home shows and home tours and everything's in-person events, and it's kind of like how many people can you meet at the convention center and get to sign up for a consult, get them on the calendar, and they might get 20 people from a three-day show, you know, at the US Bank Stadium, but like eight cancel their appointment, you got 12 left, and then you maybe meet with 12 and a lower percentage close than a normal lead who just contacted you.
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00:20:30.079And it's hard, you know, because they might get a million dollars worth of work or $500,000 worth of work out of it, so I cannot complain too much, but we're just not as good at setting those appointments and closing those like leads in person.
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00:20:43.440So I've decided like, you know, and I'll go to those shows or something and I'll get two leads, and then five people will fill out a form on my website that weekend while I'm there working all weekend, in person event.
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00:20:48.240So I'm shifting much more towards digital and like online advertising.
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00:20:57.119And when you start to look at, you know, your weekly screen report pops up and said you had four hours and 13 minutes a day on your cell phone or whatever.
00:20:57.119 -->
00:21:04.640Um like, you know, I have other competitors who are like, yeah, we're gonna put hockey ads on the on the on the you know, at sport events.
00:21:04.640 -->
00:21:10.559Our our logo is gonna be on the hockey ads because people gotta sit there for 20 minutes between periods and they're gonna see our logo.
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00:21:14.640And I'm like, no, they're gonna be looking at their phone and they're gonna see my ad, right?
00:21:14.640 -->
00:21:15.359You know?
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00:21:33.359Like, um, so yeah, we've leaned much more heavily into like targeting ads, retargeting ads to people who have been to our website or high-intent people who have searched for and been online looking at related things to remodeling, you know.
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00:21:40.640So we're really like honing in on the digital side of things, um, adding more content to our website.
00:21:40.640 -->
00:21:45.839Like we just added a 2026 remodeling cost guide.
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00:21:59.759It's a 54 page PDF with different types of projects, how much a kitchen costs, how much a kitchen makeover costs, how much a bathroom costs, how much it costs to add a bathroom in the basement, how much a second floor costs, and so um with some frequently asked questions.
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00:22:05.039And other things that the search engines and answer engines like.
00:22:05.039 -->
00:22:16.559And so we're trying to lean into like our next thing will be like we did in-person events for many, many years, like kitchen remodeling 101, bathroom remodeling 101.
00:22:16.559 -->
00:22:21.759And the theory was we want to get people into our design studios to see our space and meet us.
00:22:21.759 -->
00:22:25.359And we had pretty, you know, mixed success.
00:22:25.359 -->
00:22:30.640Like we would get three people to one of these classes, we would get 20 people to one of these classes.
00:22:30.640 -->
00:22:36.160The designers kind of said, like, I never really got any great projects out of those.
00:22:36.160 -->
00:22:43.920It was more people that were like trying to figure out how to do it themselves or like weren't quite a strong enough lead to call you to come out and give you a bid, you know.
00:22:43.920 -->
00:22:53.039And so we've just decided we're gonna like take those classes and that content and make a video on each one, kitchen remodeling 101, bathroom modeling 101.
00:22:53.039 -->
00:23:00.160And so that'll be some content that we can, you know, cut up into snippets, we can share, you know, midform, long form.
00:23:00.160 -->
00:23:22.960We can work with some vendors to say, like, not just have a loom video with a designer in the corner and a PowerPoint, but we're gonna like putt away to like a cabinet factory tour, you know, and show you how the cabinets are made in cabinets 101, and then go to the appliance store and get a tour of appliances and appliances 101 from our partner, um, you know, at all Inc.
00:23:22.960 -->
00:23:24.160or Warner Shalion.
00:23:24.160 -->
00:23:33.279And so kind of like uh this old house show, but focused on kitchens or baths or basements are you know, top at top areas.
00:23:33.279 -->
00:23:43.920And so we're kind of like if we can make this video once and people can watch it whenever they want, um, younger folks tend to like be less likely to come to those in-person events.
00:23:43.920 -->
00:23:59.519That's my my own theory, is like the Pareta homes and the remodeler showcases and the like tours and the the convention center home remodeling shows and stuff tend to tend to attract the demographic.
00:23:59.519 -->
00:24:02.160It's like about 65 years old on average.
00:24:02.160 -->
00:24:04.559Um and that's a great demographic.
00:24:04.559 -->
00:24:15.039They have a lot of money, they're retiring, they got required minimum distributions and you know, getting their houses ready for you know the next part of their life and grab bars and all those kind of things.
00:24:15.039 -->
00:24:17.920So it's a good market, but it's not the whole market.
00:24:17.920 -->
00:24:24.480You know, our clients on average are you know between that 40 and 70 years old, usually.
00:24:24.480 -->
00:24:29.440And so those younger demographics are on their phones, they're on social media.
00:24:29.440 -->
00:24:58.640Um, and so like I've just kind of come to the conclusion that the digital marketing has a better return on investment, it's more trackable, um, and that if you can target it down to the right zip codes and the right people in the right values of houses with the right incomes, and there's all that data out there, then that's a more efficient way to get them maybe to your website, to a landing page, converted to an appointment and a phone call or a home visit.
00:24:58.640 -->
00:25:06.799And uh and it's not to say that those other in-person events don't have value, but I just think they kind of get a little bit worse each year.
00:25:06.799 -->
00:25:14.640Um, you get a little lower attendance on the tour, you get a few less leads, you get a few less conversions, it costs a little bit more.
00:25:14.640 -->
00:25:26.160And then when you really do the true math, I'm like, what's my work weekend worth if I'm gonna spend four days at the convention center working 12 hour days, or you know, what could I be doing instead, right?
00:25:26.160 -->
00:25:49.039So um, yeah, so I've just shifted over time from those in-person events and those kind of like um, you know, more physical like emailers and more like print ads to to like, you know, you know, online electronics, um focusing more on SEO.
00:25:49.039 -->
00:26:01.359We're getting a little bit into pay-per-click, but but more lately it's been kind of this intent-based audience targeting um for folks who show interest in remodeling and are in our areas.
00:26:02.640 -->
00:26:09.519Yeah, Lauren, I thought it's really interesting what you said about like some of the content that you're developing.
00:26:09.519 -->
00:26:22.160And like for me, I would it's it's like thought leadership that you have like in your your area in those um particular topics.
00:26:22.160 -->
00:26:33.279And when you were talking about um especially the videos, I'm like, why don't you try to talk to some of your local TV stations, you know?
00:26:33.279 -->
00:26:46.640I'm like, because people love that type of content and they may um they may not run your video, but it may inspire um them to do something similar because you've already um set it up.
00:26:46.640 -->
00:26:58.240So I think there's a lot of opportunity to and I know we briefly touched on you wanting to do PR, like when we had our um our first call.
00:26:58.240 -->
00:27:17.359And I there's I think there's you're already doing so much and you have so much, and it would take very little um to to start pulling in some some good media coverage that actually would help you a ton with um AI visibility and and driving leads that way.
00:27:17.359 -->
00:27:19.920So yeah, that would that was my thought really.
00:27:20.079 -->
00:27:28.000But yeah, no, that is something that um as we look into like the AI visibility and where they get their sources and everything.
00:27:28.000 -->
00:27:36.480Um I used to be better at like watching like the help a reporter out or like some of those like email streams and stuff.
00:27:36.480 -->
00:27:41.519Um it is, yeah, to get back to them and yeah.
00:27:41.519 -->
00:28:02.240Um it is so but I did I would get some more um or I'd send out some press releases to the local media and just being known or having your name in front of them when when the news needed a segment about you know soaring prices or whatever it was, you know, you'd have to try to go on and figure out a good way to like spin it.
00:28:02.319 -->
00:28:33.119Um so it was uh true, but you know, a good time to remodel still because you know uh and so and so you were really uh one of the very early adopters because with AI and how it's changed um search and SEO, a lot more people um are are well once they figure out how valuable our media placements actually are for that to drive that kind of visibility.
00:28:33.119 -->
00:28:41.440So yeah, that's um this is it's the resurgence of PR for small businesses for sure.
00:28:42.000 -->
00:28:43.039I think so, yeah.
00:28:43.039 -->
00:28:50.400I think um yeah, it's interesting how many different language models there are and how each one looks at different sites and sources.
00:28:50.400 -->
00:28:50.880Yeah.
00:28:50.880 -->
00:28:59.519I just had a call yesterday with my marketing um an agency and they were talking about you need better Yelp reviews, and I said, I don't like Yelp.
00:28:59.519 -->
00:29:04.880Like Yelp is an extortionist, they try to like make me pay just to be at, you know, to show my good reviews.
00:29:04.880 -->
00:29:32.160And you know, I really had no reviews in about six or eight years, and the ones that are on there are like things where they things slip through the cracks, or we didn't get somebody their bid when we said we would, and uh and they go and you know, it's not like we screwed up a huge project, it's like you know, like we didn't get their voicemail returned, and uh it's hard because it's six or eight years ago, so now I need to like bury those with good reviews and find the happy people to go on and give us more good reviews.
00:29:32.160 -->
00:29:40.559And I was I kind of said I don't care about Yelp, but now that the the bots and the large language models do care about Yelp, I have to care about Yelp.
00:29:40.640 -->
00:29:57.119And so it's uh yeah, it's it is changing the the like where we have to put our focus or our effort um to like Yeah, the sad thing is you have to care about everything now because they all pull from different sources, yeah.
00:29:57.359 -->
00:29:57.680Yeah.
00:29:57.680 -->
00:30:21.519So yeah, but it's it's uh yeah, I thought I heard something on a different podcast yesterday that you know 51% of web traffic is now bots, and you know, like more traffic on websites are from bots than humans now, and so you know, if you're not optimizing uh your website for those bots, um you know, you're missing out.
00:30:21.519 -->
00:31:09.759And I guess it was interesting because we just built a new website um in Framer, and I watched a lot of the Framer videos on SEO and visibility, and mostly it was it was kind of the video is focused on accessibility as well as like SEO, and it clicked to me or down on me that like humans who have problems or disabilities like uh say blind or you know, bots are basically a blind human, you know, like um they you know they're you know, if you don't have a meta description of what this picture is, like um, so you know, optimizing for accessibility is really also optimizing for bots or um that's really interesting of you know viewpoint.
00:31:09.759 -->
00:31:11.440Yeah, no, that makes so much sense.
00:31:11.440 -->
00:31:13.119Well, that was my takeaway anyway.
00:31:13.200 -->
00:31:14.559So yeah.
00:31:14.559 -->
00:31:21.200What I like to ask all of our guests, the young Lauren, what would you advise him if he was sitting next to you right now?
00:31:21.200 -->
00:31:23.680All that you went through, what would you advise him?
00:31:23.680 -->
00:31:30.000And this actually helps out some of our listeners because they're all at different journeys in their remodeling career.
00:31:30.000 -->
00:31:34.480So if the young Lauren was sitting next to you right now, what would you tell him?
00:31:35.279 -->
00:31:40.079I think the biggest thing I would uh tell them is like to focus and specialize.
00:31:40.079 -->
00:31:47.200Like um, you know, when you work on folks' homes, there's so many different areas um that you can cover.
00:31:47.200 -->
00:31:52.000Um, like, you know, we have a thousand-line item spreadsheet for our estimator.
00:31:52.000 -->
00:32:01.519Um and it's it's helpful to be able to tell people like, you know, we can do that, we can do that, we can do that, we can help you with that, we can pretty much help you with everything.
00:32:01.519 -->
00:32:14.160Um but I think it's also like really, really important to know like where your strengths lie, how you are positioned in the marketplace, like where you win versus where you lose.
00:32:14.160 -->
00:32:21.440Like we do a lot of accounting and job costing, and we can see like what the gross profit is of each job or each type of job.
00:32:21.440 -->
00:32:27.359And we have a general idea of like which types of jobs are the most profitable or that we're best at.
00:32:27.359 -->
00:32:33.440But what that doesn't necessarily tell you is like how much work went into like producing those gross profit dollars.
00:32:33.440 -->
00:32:39.759And so if it's like even if the percentage is the same, but the work for your design crew was twice as long, right?
00:32:39.759 -->
00:32:51.440You know, like or if your production crew had twice as many hiccups and redoes and um delays or things like that, like it doesn't necessarily show up in the gross profit numbers all the time, you know.
00:32:51.440 -->
00:33:00.240Um if the mistake was the flooring people's and they paid for it, but it delayed the project and made twice as much work and six more meetings and things like that.
00:33:00.240 -->
00:33:06.799Um, so it's really kind of just saying, like, what is easy er for us, right?
00:33:06.799 -->
00:33:28.799You know, like which, and that goes back to the marketing of like, you know, what what are you doing well, what are you producing efficiently, what's what seems easy, um, and what are where are the customers the happiest, you know, what takes the least amount of work in the design process and what's the easiest to sell on the front end as a salesperson?
00:33:28.799 -->
00:33:36.480Because you don't really want to go on a hundred leads to get one project, it'd be nice to like get one out of three or one out of four.
00:33:36.480 -->
00:33:53.359And so knowing and focusing, um, I would have um yeah, I would have said, you know, narrow down your focus a little bit, um, you know, focus on like interiors versus additions or whatever it is.
00:33:53.359 -->
00:34:07.920Um, just because I guess the what I've come to realize over a long time in the industry is like in consumers' minds or or just as you look at the competition, the like pure play people are gonna win, right?
00:34:07.920 -->
00:34:20.719You know, so like if I like I looked at a company that was for sale that just did decks, and you know, they sell one kind of decking, um, they have their standards and processes down for decks really well.
00:34:20.719 -->
00:34:39.440They tear off and get into the dumpster, and the dumpster goes away the first day, and this guy goes to Menards and gets the lumber, and you know, um, they do this type of butt joints so that these things don't crack, and they always do this with the risers, and and they're like half the price of us on these decks.
00:34:39.440 -->
00:34:43.519I'm like, how is it possible they can make any money, you know, on this deck or whatever?
00:34:43.519 -->
00:34:45.440And like, and it's because all they do is decks.
00:34:45.440 -->
00:35:03.920So, like, and if you kind of go down the line of like, if you're only doing like kitchens and baths, you can be really good at kitchens and baths, you can be totally focused on kitchens and baths, like, and you can probably beat other people um who like say only do bigger projects or you just use subcontractors or whatnot.
00:35:03.920 -->
00:35:14.559So we've just come to find that you know, with our in-house crews, we can do a lot of the labor in-house, and if we can do a lot of labor in-house, we can be really competitive versus like folks who just sub everything out.
00:35:14.559 -->
00:35:36.079And so some of our bigger design build competitors that really only do like whole house projects and additions and you know, projects over a hundred or a hundred and fifty thousand dollars can compete really well against us on those bigger projects, but they can't compete with us on a sixty thousand dollar bathroom model that's just too small, like they don't want to do projects that small.
00:35:36.079 -->
00:35:46.159It doesn't make sense to have 17 subcontractors that they manage, it's a lot of trips, it's just as much work almost as the big project, and so they don't want to do those small projects.
00:35:46.159 -->
00:36:02.159So I think kind of just knowing like that there is you know a handyman niche, and there's an exterior niche, and there's a kitchen and bath niche, and there's a design build niche, and there's a you know, garage builder's niche, and an ADU builder's niche.
00:36:02.159 -->
00:36:09.920And so at least if you're gonna like and that's who's gonna win, is those peer play people for the most part, or they're gonna have advantages a lot.
00:36:09.920 -->
00:36:13.599So, and homeowners want to put people into like a bucket, you know.
00:36:13.599 -->
00:36:19.840If you if you do 17 things, it's like people are like, well, they're my kitchen remodeler because they did my kitchen, right?
00:36:19.840 -->
00:36:25.280You know, and so they don't think about you as the handyman or the you know big edition person.
00:36:25.280 -->
00:36:39.360So I've come to like think more about it like at a minimum, I maybe should have some different brands that do these different things because you know, in your marketing or positioning, um, you know, and or it's a different process, right?
00:36:39.360 -->
00:36:52.559You know, to be the most competitive in that kind of like hierarchy, basically, like you might need a different slightly different design process or a slightly different production team to be able to compete.
00:36:52.559 -->
00:36:55.519You know, uh you might use more subs on this type of project.
00:36:55.519 -->
00:37:11.440Yeah, so I think that that focus and that like trying not to be everything to everybody, um but trying to pick your vertical and know where you which niche you fit in and winning a niche, uh versus trying to win five niches.
00:37:11.440 -->
00:37:13.360You know, that's my latest.
00:37:14.239 -->
00:37:14.559I love that.
00:37:14.559 -->
00:37:21.920And that ties into what I talk about all the time on this podcast about knowing your audience and then really being the expert in that.
00:37:21.920 -->
00:37:26.719So this has been a great talk for any of our audience that wants to reach out to you.
00:37:26.719 -->
00:37:28.639How do they get in contact with you?
00:37:28.960 -->
00:37:32.400Yeah, um, Castle BRI is our website.
00:37:32.400 -->
00:37:34.079Um, otherwise, I'm on LinkedIn.
00:37:34.079 -->
00:37:36.719That's a good way to reach me as well, Lauren Sherber.
00:37:36.719 -->
00:37:40.159Um yeah, those would be good ways to reach out to me.
00:37:40.400 -->
00:37:40.800All right.
00:37:40.800 -->
00:37:42.800Well, we appreciate your time, Lauren.
00:37:42.800 -->
00:37:47.199And for any of our audience that want to reach out to you, they know how now.
00:37:47.199 -->
00:37:50.800So we hope to hear and see you all in two weeks on Designer Discussions.
00:37:50.800 -->
00:37:57.519We hope you enjoyed this episode of Designer Discussions and all of the helpful information.
00:37:57.519 -->
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