What It's Like to be A Fearful Avoidant

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Did you just say wow?
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Like, or did you just say nervous about I did, I just kind of like pretended to wipe sweat off my forehead.
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Okay.
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Correct.
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Yeah, you've never shared your deep inner feelings with your avoidant attachment style.
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Yeah, that would be correct.
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I mean, I did share a little bit with you, but you know.
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Yeah, that was just you and I.
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I know.
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Now it's going out to the world.
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So I'll just say thank you.
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Thank you for agreeing to do this podcast with me.
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I'm sure that a lot of people are going to benefit because you know what's going on out there.
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Everybody wants to know what's going on in the mind of a fearful avoidant.
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Well, I can tell you what's going on right now.
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I feel like running away right now and just going for a jog.
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I don't know.
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Really?
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Is that what it feels like?
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Oh, yeah.
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Like I want to like take off.
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Okay.
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Now, a question.
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What about this makes you so scared?
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I mean, we've known each other for a few months now.
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Mm-hmm.
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I wish I could tell you.
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I guess it's just the being vulnerable and kind of knowing that it's going out there to other people whom I don't know.
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So why should I care?
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But apparently I do.
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Yeah, just feeling like, oh no, they're gonna see me, right?
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First of all, realistically, no one knows who you are.
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No one's going to know who you are.
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Right.
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Unless they really recognize your voice, because we're not using your name or your face.
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So they're missing out on that one.
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True.
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Thank you to see you.
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But what about this scares you?
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Like, what are you thinking?
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They may think about you based on what you say.
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That I'm weak somehow.
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You know?
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Yeah.
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It all comes down to weakness.
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Okay.
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Is that coming from you, or is it coming from what you hear people say about fearful avoidance, or is it a combination?
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Maybe a combination, but definitely me.
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Like it's yeah, the whole love and relationships and all that I used to.
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It's funny though, because I feel like this is gonna be a little bit bipolar because you know, we have been doing the work for a while now.
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So there's a lot of things that I can see from the past that are very different now, where I can recognize them for what they are.
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So there are certain ways I was a few months ago and I'm not that way anymore, or I can recognize it for what it was.
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So it's like, oh, this is how it was, and now I see it and it's different now, which is kind of it's like two different people in me, you know?
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Okay, all right, makes sense.
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For those of you who are joining Decoding Attachment Style, what my guess meant by we have been working on this for a while is that she's also a client of mine.
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So yes, we've been working on healing your attachment style, and you've done incredibly, incredibly well.
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I mean, you've been able to say the thing, you know, you've been able to push through your fear of what is this person going to say if I send this message or if I say this thing.
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And I know it's been scary for you at times, but you're able to do it, which proves something that I've been saying over and over.
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We can heal our attachment style.
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Yeah, you haven't had to whack me with a stick over the head yet.
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So no, no, and I never had I never had the feeling, I never thought of doing it.
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No.
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Great.
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Yeah, good.
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I mean, there are times when I do tell you that you need to push through this and you might be BSing, but that's as far as we've gone, but we've done, we've done pretty good.
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So I'm gonna ask you questions based on your personality.
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So anyone who's listening is going to be able to appreciate what goes through the mind of a fearful, avoidant, attached person.
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Definitely want to know what you're feeling in your body because a lot of times we feel like, you know, when I was anxiously attached, I was able to talk and talk about my feelings nonstop.
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And so when you meet someone who can't do it, it's mind-boggling.
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You're wondering, like, what the hell is so hard?
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Like, goddamn, just share your feelings and this relationship can work out.
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Right.
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So, but that's not what happens with a fearful avoidant, and we're gonna talk about it later.
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So I want you to start by telling me what happens when life gets overwhelming.
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Where do you actually go?
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Mentally and physically, don't forget the physical part.
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Right.
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So, like I said, some of it has changed over the last few months.
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Thank goodness.
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But mentally, I would try to like escape into my own world.
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So, like my books or my podcasts, my true crime, you know, just distraction, right?
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Not to think about whatever it is that's going on.
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And definitely kind of wanting to be alone.
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Like when life gets overwhelming, I don't want to talk to anyone.
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And I don't want people to talk to me either.
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I'm like, just just leave me alone.
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Don't call me, don't text me, don't expect a response.
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It's already too much, and those messages are making it even more.
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And that, I mean, and that's like friends, family, partners, all of the above.
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Like when it's too much, I don't want to hear from any of them.
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And then physically, I think just my apartment, because it's like my safe space.
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So that's kind of where I want to be.
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My apartment, it's safe, even if it's messy, I know the space, I know what's where, and you know, who's who, and all that kind of stuff.
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So, yeah, that's my little hidey hole.
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When when it gets like overwhelming, you don't want to talk to anyone what are you afraid you would say if if you had to respond to a message?
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Why is it you want everyone to just disappear?
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What are you afraid of?
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I just don't think they would understand what I'm thinking or feeling because this has been an experience in life where people are like, no, you're just doing this wrong, or me, me, me, me, me.
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And you're like, that's not how I feel.
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You're clearly not understanding what I'm telling you.
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So why would I be wasting my own time telling you how I feel if you're not gonna get it?
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So it's it's that misunderstanding or not being understood that I'm like, why bother if I'm just gonna get frustrated and upset when I'm already frustrated and upset?
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So just don't want to pile that on.
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That makes so much sense.
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So it's they're negating what you say.
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And here's what, as someone who used to be anxious attached used to do, and I find this with other anxious attached persons.
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When they feel misunderstood, it is not, okay, you misunderstood me.
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I'm not feeling good about this, I'm not gonna fight, push against you, and try to get you to see my point, which is what you do.
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You're like, okay, fine, I'm out of here.
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This is uncomfortable.
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I'm not putting myself through this.
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An anxious attached person will say, no, no, no, no, no, you misunderstood me.
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This is what I mean.
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And there's this back and forth because the anxious attached really wants to feel understood.
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Now, in your case, does it matter if you're you're feeling understood?
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Do you want to feel understood, or is it more like if you had to to weigh which one is more important to you?
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Is it to be understood, or is it to like remove yourself from the discomfort of not being understood?
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Deep down I want to be understood, but the experiences in life have shown me that that doesn't happen.
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So I guess given that, why would I put myself in the discomfort of being misunderstood?
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Right?
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Because I will attempt to explain, because at first you you know, I was like, hey, the sky is blue, and you're like, no, it's orange.
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And I'm like, well, if you cover one eyeball, maybe you'll see it then, and you're like, no, it's still orange.
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Then I'm like, okay, I've tried, like, I gave you some room for like, oh, maybe we misunderstood, right?
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Each other.
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And if I try again and you're still like, no, it's orange, and I'm like, okay, well, I'm I'm I'm not doing this anymore, right?
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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Do you think this is what happens in the relationships when you know it's like, I've told you I don't want to be in a relationship, and you're still trying to negotiate with me and explain to me why we should be in a relationship, and now I've decided, okay, I'm gonna stop talking right now.
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And they feel like, oh, you're dismissive?
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Is it a case where I've explained myself before, I've set my boundary, sort of?
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You know, it's funny because, and and obviously, when you say relationships, I assume you mean all and any of them, and and it's like my pet peeve.
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I will literally tell people when they ask me, Oh, what did you say?
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And I'm like, I'm not explaining this again.
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If you can be bothered to pay attention the first time, why am I sitting here?
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So it has literally translated into my work relationships, my relationship with my family.
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It drives me up the wall to have to repeat myself because to me that means like you're not paying attention to what I'm saying, why would I be doing it again?
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So it definitely translates to any and all relationships.
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And again, of course, there's like, you know, when someone really likes, oh, I didn't hear you, of course, I'm gonna explain it again, right?
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But I'm talking where they could not have been bothered to pay attention.
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And I'm like, I'm not, I'm not doing this.
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If you can't be bothered, neither can I.
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So yeah, secure attached people will go through the same thing, except it doesn't drive them up the wall.
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Oh no, it's like it's it drives the wall.
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Yeah.
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So I with the secure attached, it's the emotions, the intensity of the emotions that an anxious attached would feel or fearful, avoidant, or avoidant attached would feel.
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That's the where there's the difference, right?
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Right.
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So it's not going to drive them up the wall, it more than likely will irritate them because yes, it's a human thing.
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But they're also very good with not explaining themselves again.
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And no means no.
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Right.
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No is a full sentence.
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And if you didn't hear me the first time, that all right, like you said, if the person was, you know, genuinely didn't understand or you know said, Oh, I'm I'm so sorry, I got distracted, you could explain again.
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But yeah, there is that problem with listening and hearing, listening and hearing.
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And I get what you're saying.
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Actually, only recently I told someone that I would not be able to meet them for dinner.
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And they pushed.
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They were like, Oh, but why not?
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And I did not respond.
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In the past, I would have continued with, oh, well, you know, but no, I kind of explained everything in the first message.
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Right.
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And it's that's it.
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And I think, you know, that it's one way of teaching people as well what what your boundaries look like.
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So the next time this person will not try that again.
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Right.
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And I think there's also some of it as, you know, we're socialized to kind of explain ourselves as to as to why I can't make it to coffee or why I can't meet you.
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You know, we're trying to justify not to hurt anyone's feelings.
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But so learning to say no for me personally has been a bit of a journey.
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And and being able to say no without an explanation, holy smokes, that's like a whole new level of of being able to stand up for yourself that has been, you know, a bit of a learning curve.
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But it's been nice to be able to just like no.
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It it is good.
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I think a lot of people are going to be triggered here.
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And what I want to make absolutely clear about, you know, my communication with this person was a simple thank you for inviting me.
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However, I won't be able to join you maybe the next time.
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Now, this person, prior knowledge, knew that I had a bit of a headache, so might surmise that okay, that's the reason.
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But that is enough.
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You're being polite, you're not, you know, it's how you communicate it.
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Right.
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But there are many people who never learned how to respect a boundary and they push it instead of saying, oh, feel better or sure, we'll catch up another time.
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Oh, but why not?
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Why not?
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And it's generally, generally the anxious attached.
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I used to be exactly the same way, right?
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Generally the anxious attached that will do this.
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Now, let's talk a little bit about your childhood.
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Does this resemble anything in your childhood?
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It's the behaviors that you struggled with, the when there's overwhelm wanting to run away, shut down.
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How far back in your childhood can you remember this happening?
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That's a good question.
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I'm like, wait, let me go back in time.
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You know, from what I hear from what my mom told me, every once in a while they would like drop me off at the neighbors just to kind of like run some errands and whatnot.
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Maybe when I was about two years old, and my mom would say, Oh, you know, I would like put you on the couch there and like straighten out your dress, whatever, and then I'll come back two hours later and you'd be sitting in the same spot.
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I was like, and you guys weren't concerned that I haven't moved.
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Like I sat there like a doll and nobody said boo.
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Like a two-year-old should be destroying the place, right?
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I mean, that's what toddlers do.
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But no, apparently I would just be sat, you know, and sit there and wait.
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But yeah, I definitely definitely seems like that was my default mode, just kind of like shutting down and living my own little world.
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I grew up in a decent-sized household, so it was always like noisy, and there was always someone else needing something.
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So I kind of like didn't want to need anything, so I wouldn't bother my parents because you know my older sister maybe was louder or she needed more attention for whatever, and I was like, oh, they're busy, I'll just I'll just back off and do my own thing, right?
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Yeah, so I don't know, probably eight, ten, something like that, that I can picture that.
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Yeah.
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How did your parents respond to if your older sister was I don't know, being louder?
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So me and my older sister are very different people.
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And my parents had us very young, so there is that too, right?
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So there's some grave sentence to be given to basically teenagers.
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Well, my mom was 20 when she had my sister, so yeah, basically babies having babies, whatever.
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I mean, the squeaky wheel gets whatever, right?
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So my sister was the squeaky wheel and now is just not not not squeaky.
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And it's funny because this continues to this day, where she gets a little bit more, I don't know, support in some way, but that's again, that's because she talks about what she wants or needs.
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And I don't I I don't ask them for anything.
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So did your parents complain about it?
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Did they ever complain at any time that you remember about my emotional state?
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No, no, no, about your sister, about your sister.
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No.
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Okay.
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Because what happens sometimes is that we see when one child is acting up with their parents, and we're like, okay, that's a lot of stress for my parents.
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I'm not going to add to it.
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Right, right, right.
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Yeah.
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And that's why I'm asking, what did you like?
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Did you see your parents go through any kind of stress?
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Or no, they didn't complain about her.
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It just, I guess I viewed it as stressful myself, like as the observer, like as a third party of their dynamic, like my parents and my sister.
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And I was like, wow, that's that's a lot.
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That's stressful.
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It was stressing me out, so I simply assumed it would have been stressing them out.
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And then, you know, observing the dynamic that my parents had between each other, that was a bit of a volatile relationship.
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So I was just like, meh, back off.
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How was it affecting you?
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So again, my mom was a teenager when they met, and so was my dad.
00:16:53.200 --> 00:17:00.399
So my dad was absent, he wasn't home a lot when I was, I don't know, between eight to whatever.
00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:10.240
And so my mom was always stressed and kind of like always looking for him, or just kind of like she was on her own with you know, four kids, right?
00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:12.240
That's a lot for anyone.
00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:33.440
So she was a little bit emotionally volatile, and so she, and you know, this feels bad talking about my mom, but like she wasn't a safe place to kind of come to, and because sometimes she'd be like, Oh, come here, I'll hug you, and sometimes like, oh my god, I can't deal with this right now, go away, right?
00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:36.160
So was dependent on a day.
00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:40.240
So I just kind of stopped going to her with anything.
00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:46.160
And my dad, like I said, he wasn't physically there, so well, you don't talk to someone who's not there either, right?
00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:49.119
That is true, but you do long for them.
00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:58.079
Look, I I know we talk about our parents from time to time and what happened in the past, and really I'm not about judging parents.
00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:06.960
I used to judge my both of my parents harshly until I worked through my attachment and then realize, oh my gosh, we're just humans.
00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:09.599
We're trying to do the best we can here.
00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:14.400
Like I tell Jonathan, my 15-year-old, every now and again, I've never had a 15-year-old son.
00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:16.160
I'm trying to figure out right.
00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:25.359
But unfortunately, our parents didn't have the kind of tools that some of us, not all of us, yeah, some of us have access to.
00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:32.880
Uh, and I really think, I really think for the most part, most parents did the best they could.
00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:37.279
So this isn't about your mom being, I mean, a teenager, having kids.
00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:38.720
I was in my 20s.
00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:40.400
I don't, I still don't know how I did it.
00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:41.920
I still don't know how I do it.
00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:44.240
But yeah, you know, they're they're trying their best.
00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:52.079
It's good to just examine that though and see that okay, there were certain things that happened in our childhood, and I saw it as chaos.
00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:57.920
And perhaps that is why I've learned one that I'm hearing from you right now.
00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:01.759
Don't be a burden to other people.
00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:10.400
Don't ask for what I want, because that's going to probably come over as being stressful for them.
00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:14.160
So I'm going to become self-sufficient.
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:14.720
Yeah.
00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:16.799
Which is class to me.
00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:21.599
Woo! Classic, classic, fearful, avoidant trait.
00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:31.680
And I think, you know, the reason I I like talking about this is because we tend to think that the human being just poof woke up one morning and decided I'm gonna be this way.
00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:32.079
Right.
00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:39.200
And we forget that there were children who were programmed right to become this.
00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:44.640
Well, yeah, I definitely didn't air quotes here, choose this.
00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:57.119
Um and I didn't know, it's funny because it's like, you know, I didn't know who I was, kind of thing, but I didn't see it for what it was until we started working together.
00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:02.640
I'm like, oh my god, this has affected pretty much everything in my life.
00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:09.200
And now I can see it for what it is, and yeah.
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:13.680
And it's funny because like, you know, most people think it's like, oh, you're just scared of everything everything.
00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:21.440
I'm like, no, if you know me and you know what I've been through in life, yeah, I'm scared, but also I ain't scared of shit.
00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:22.400
You know what I mean?
00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:25.599
Like, yes, I'm scared, but I keep on going, right?
00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:28.240
I will go and push through and do things.
00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:32.400
So yes, I'm a recovering fearful avoidant.
00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:34.000
Uh yeah.
00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:41.839
But the feelings that drove me to do things, I would have never described them as fear because I didn't see them as fear.
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:48.720
It was something different, some like the lizard brain would kick in and it would be something so different.
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:56.720
And and where you're almost not in control of it until you learn about it and then you can see it for what it is.
00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:06.319
Until that time, I thought I was doing the right things, making the right decisions, blah, blah, blah, all of the above, right?
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:10.000
So what makes you think it wasn't the right decision?
00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:14.880
Looking back, hindsight is 2020, right?
00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:18.319
Again, in that moment, it was the right decision, whatever.
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:21.359
Because that's all the tools and for information I had.
00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:30.079
But I would have made a few different decisions in life, I think, if if I had the knowledge that I have now, if I had it at that time.
00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:31.519
Can you share some?
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:35.200
Yeah, the big ones would be relationship-wise.
00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:45.359
Yeah, there was a situation where I pushed someone away because I didn't understand what was going on inside of me.
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:47.599
Like, there was nothing that they did.
00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:55.440
He didn't do anything, but like my brain and my insides would panic.
00:21:55.599 --> 00:22:03.519
It was just pure panic, and I would just uh push him away, and I'll be like, Oh, I think you know, this is that we we shouldn't be together.
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:11.039
And thank God at that time he was reasonable and kind enough to kind of come back and be like, hey, stupid.
00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:15.839
You're still stupid, or you uh got back to normal.
00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:21.039
And you know, thank God by then I would have kind of leveled out and we're like, okay.
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:26.400
But honestly, I was not able to name it at that time, right?
00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:28.799
And it was, like I said, nothing he did.
00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:41.440
It was just something about me that like something would like almost like a flip would switch where that like the panic, and it would literally turn into fight or flight.
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:45.359
It was not a conscious, like, oh my gosh, he's such a blah blah blah.
00:22:45.599 --> 00:23:04.960
No, it was like, you know, when you're watching a war movie and they're on the submarine and all of a sudden all the red lights go off, and you're like, oh my god! Yeah, that's what the inside would feel like like the red lights are on and I'm underwater and I gotta run because the aliens are coming, or whoever, or the Russians, I don't know.
00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:07.440
Whoever, whoever's the bad guy, yeah.
00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:11.279
Funny how we always go to the Russians, those are right.
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:12.640
Yeah, it's programmed.
00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:13.759
We're so programmed.
00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:14.400
I know.
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:15.599
My gosh.
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:20.400
All right, so you said this person didn't do anything.
00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:24.240
Could it have been the way it was done?
00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:26.960
Was there something that could have been done differently?
00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:30.880
That the hearing here that you didn't feel safe.
00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:32.960
That's when alarm bells go off, right?
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:38.079
Perhaps the alarm goes off in a house when someone's being intrusive.
00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:43.039
So, what might this person have done that made you feel unsafe?
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:47.279
Even if even if it doesn't make logical sense to the rest of the world.
00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:53.200
So, with that particular person, I did feel safe.
00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:58.799
The because obviously there's more to us than just the attachment styles, too, right?
00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:10.079
I think for me, a big thing is being appreciated, and not for like, oh my god, thank you for making breakfast, I'm rolling out the red carpet.
00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:12.319
I mean, yeah, if you would, that'd be great, right?
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:14.400
I'll walk on it, thanks.
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:20.720
But just kind of seeing the little things that I do and or putting me first.
00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:22.880
Not always.
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:24.640
I understand life happens, right?
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:25.359
I get that.
00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:32.079
Like, I don't know, if you have stuff going on in life and you gotta talk, you're gonna go first, I'm gonna put you first.
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:37.759
And then if there's something going on in my life, I need you to put me first for a hot minute, we take turns in life, right?
00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:46.799
So I just need to feel like I matter to someone more than the rest of the world.
00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:49.680
We're talking in like romantic relationship.
00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:54.160
Like, I want to know that I'm important, right?
00:24:54.720 --> 00:25:02.400
And if I'm just like everybody else to you, then how am I different than everybody else to you, right?
00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:09.440
It's interesting because the anxious attached feels the same way.
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:15.599
They want to know that they're more important than everyone else in that person's life.
00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:19.759
And if I'm not most important, then what's the point?
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:28.000
I think it's important for us to know that every relationship brings something different.
00:25:28.319 --> 00:25:33.039
Right so what you can bring to okay, I'm gonna use a personal example here.
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:37.920
But Larry and I are together, we've been together for how long?
00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:38.720
Five years.
00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:45.279
I could never bring to him what his daughter brings, that relationship.
00:25:46.079 --> 00:25:50.160
Nor can she do the same thing that I do in the relationship.
00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:54.160
I cannot bring to him what his ex-wife brings.
00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:58.000
She gave the guy two beautiful kids, right?
00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:00.960
She can never do what I do in the relationship.
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:01.200
Right.
00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:05.920
And the same thing with his work, same thing with him and my life.
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:07.759
Every child of mine.
00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:09.440
There are four kids.
00:26:09.759 --> 00:26:10.400
Right.
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:14.000
Deanna cannot bring to me what Jonathan brings.
00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:14.480
Right.
00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:17.039
Nor Jonathan can bring what Crystal brings.
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:19.200
They're very different relationships.
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:23.519
It doesn't mean that one is more important than the other.
00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:30.319
And I think this is how we get really messed up with how we set boundaries because it's the priority thing.
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:35.920
When we start to think that one person should be more important, that's where the trouble starts.
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:39.200
And that's when the others start to feel neglected.
00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:39.839
Right.
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:41.920
Everything goes falling apart.
00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:47.839
And a lot of relationships with these two insecure attachment happened with me again.
00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:52.400
I keep saying that because I want people to know that, you know, I'm not on a high horse here.
00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:54.720
I know exactly what you're going through.
00:26:55.279 --> 00:27:00.960
I prioritized, we prioritize this romantic relationship.
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:14.000
Now, with fearful avoidance, you will find, or any avoidant attachment, you will find that you prioritize the real the romantic relationship to a degree.
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:21.359
Because when it starts to feel threatening, the priority still remains work and self.
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:22.319
Right.
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:24.079
Why is that so?
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:26.319
Oh wow.
00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:28.480
Wait, do we think I have the answers?
00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:29.200
That's great.
00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:30.480
Why is it for you?
00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:32.559
Yes, and of course I think you have the answers.
00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:33.519
Oh, that's awesome.
00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:35.440
My job is just to pull it out from you.
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:36.799
Like you have your own manual.
00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:37.359
Yeah.
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:40.319
Okay, well, let me look through the manual real quick.
00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:43.119
I think they forgot to give it to me when I first came out of the womb.
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:44.319
But actually, hold on.
00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:45.039
That would have been great.
00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:47.279
Stick a pen, you had the manual.
00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:49.119
We always had the manual.
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:56.400
Society and teachings and generations just told us, hey, sit in a corner, shut up, and what you know to be real is no longer real.
00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:58.240
You're going with my manual.
00:27:58.480 --> 00:28:00.319
That's what our parents kind of said.
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:02.400
They're like, shut up, be quiet.
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:04.720
I'm going to tell you what you need to be.
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:12.000
But the first few years, you know, you look at a baby, they know exactly how to set a boundary.
00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:14.160
They scream and shout, and they will not come to you.
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:15.680
And they'll smack you in the face.
00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:16.799
Yeah, they will.
00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:17.839
They do their thing.
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:20.880
They could just feel your energy and they'll start screaming.
00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:22.079
They don't want to come to you.
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:22.640
Right.
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:23.039
Right.
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:24.640
They know how to ask for stuff.
00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:25.599
They know how to share.
00:28:25.759 --> 00:28:26.720
They know how to forgive.
00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:28.079
Nobody taught them that.
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:33.759
What we did was we taught them how to forget everything they already knew.
00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:36.559
Yeah, that's a very good point.
00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:37.839
Now we're just bringing it up.
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:40.000
I'm going to refer to my nephew going forward.
00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:40.480
Yes.
00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:44.880
I'll like use him as a barometer, you know, like stick him in front of a human.
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:46.720
If he's wailing, that's a no.
00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:48.559
If he's smiling, that's a yes.
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:48.960
Yes.
00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:49.359
Yeah.
00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:51.599
I no longer have to worry.
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:54.640
There's nothing like ghosting and all of these languages that we use.
00:28:54.799 --> 00:28:55.519
No, it's clear.
00:28:55.599 --> 00:28:56.960
People show you how they feel.
00:28:57.279 --> 00:28:57.839
Yeah.
00:28:58.079 --> 00:29:03.039
But yeah, it's interesting the whole like abandoning or whatever for the partner.
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:14.559
For me, because relationships are so important to me, and I'm talking about like friendships and you know, romantic relationships, all of them.
00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:20.799
But maybe because I felt like I have not been prioritized ever.
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:28.799
No, I I mean I have been prioritized with you know who it just anyways.
00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:38.799
So for me, making sure person for those of you who are listening, she means I mean she's saying I know who, yes, I know who, but she's talking about Voldemort, whichever important person.
00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:41.519
Yes, my VIP, you know.
00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:55.839
Anyways, anyways, but because I have experienced not being prioritized in life, I think it was always very important for me to make sure that I have treated people as a priority.
00:29:56.079 --> 00:30:07.359
So be it, you know, if I had made plans with you to have coffee with you on Saturday, but then let's say my guy called me, he's like, hey, Saturday, let's do this.
00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:09.519
I was like, Well, I have plans with Annalisa.
00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:11.920
Well, you know, but just drop her.
00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:15.519
I'll be like, Well, no, she planned in advance.
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:18.240
She made good plans two weeks ago.
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:20.960
You just calling me last minute, I'm going with her.
00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:29.200
That's to me being respectful of you and your time and our commitment to each other as friends, colleagues, whatever.
00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:39.920
But what I've noticed, I started kind of not giving up, but like it was so easy to like, I wanted to spend time with him, right?
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:42.319
Obviously, because duh.
00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:45.359
And I'll be like, oh, okay, I'll skip the gym.
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:47.200
Okay, I'll skip Pilates.
00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:50.559
Okay, I'll cancel my massage so we can just hang out.
00:30:50.720 --> 00:31:09.680
And, you know, so those little things that were ensuring like my general mental health or general health, those were easy, so to speak, to give up without noticing what I was doing until eventually I was like, what am I doing?
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:14.400
My body is sore, and like I haven't had a massage, and I haven't done Pilates.
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:17.359
And this is by any means, I'm not saying it's his fault.
00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:18.319
That's on me.
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:23.440
Because he never, like, if I said no, I'm going to Pilates, he'd be like, okay, I'll see you after.
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:25.599
Like he would be very supportive of that.
00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:30.960
It was just me like, oh, it's so cozy in bed, and da-da-da-da-da, and we can just go get coffee, right?
00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:32.000
It's like cancel.
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:37.680
So that would be me literally canceling myself, which is so dumb in retrospect.
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:40.720
But yeah, stupid, huh?
00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:42.160
Uh I've been there.
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:42.799
I've been there.
00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:44.079
No need to call me out.
00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:45.920
No, no, just me, myself, and I.
00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:46.799
It's all good.
00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:57.279
Yeah, I look, that's we neglect ourselves, and that's the you know, being in that space, you're desperate for someone to like you and for to be in that space with that person.
00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:01.200
And I mean, it's not being able to balance everything.
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:03.920
Well, and it feels good in the moment, too, right?
00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:13.920
Because you're like, I am cozy, I am warm, I I do want to stay in bed and and cozy up and talk about life or make coffee together, right?
00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:16.960
Instead of like running out in the rain to some stupid Pilates.
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:21.279
Yeah, and I think it's it's okay to do that occasionally, right?
00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:28.000
I mean, yeah, last Friday I I think I might have stayed in, you know, or Mary might have worked from home.
00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:30.960
I can't remember, but we we stayed in and that was fine.
00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:37.119
But today I was like, no, babe, gotta go, because the podcast is done better when I'm in the office.
00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:42.319
And it helps when we have these other priorities, right?
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:42.720
Right.
00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:46.240
I mean, the work that I do, that's a relationship, right?
00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:49.279
Doing this with you, it's a relationship.
00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:52.079
And when we prioritize, yeah, I know.
00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:52.480
Thanks.
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:52.880
Thank you.
00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:53.839
Anytime, anytime.
00:32:54.319 --> 00:32:56.400
Let me just pause and relish in it.
00:32:56.880 --> 00:33:18.880
But you know, when when we prioritize, we know the importance, the feeling that goes with it, the feeling of getting a podcast on, the feeling of being consistent and reliable and and just just doing things that we love, then we can say, okay, sometimes I'm gonna stay with my partner, sometimes I'm going to cancel certain things.
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:26.240
But if it's consistently canceling ourselves to be with that person, that's what we have to look at.
00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:29.839
I'm not saying have a rigid, you know, right, right.
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:31.359
Yeah, I agree.
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:39.279
Be flexible, but be very careful when one particular thing is pulling you know from everything else.
00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:53.839
And again, like I said, it was nothing he ever asked, it was me making that decision for us, even though I know looking back, he liked the other me, that the one who was doing all the things for herself.
00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:56.160
He liked and loved that person.
00:33:56.400 --> 00:33:59.119
Not that he didn't love me when I stopped, but like you know what I mean?
00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:14.480
That's the person he fell in love with, the person doing XYZ, the person going like, go, go, go, and yeah, so it's like do you think that had something to do with the space in in a relationship?
00:34:14.719 --> 00:34:22.960
Do you think you not prioritizing yourself might have something, might have contributed to the space you guys have right now?
00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:26.079
Absolutely, yeah.
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:29.280
Because I've changed.
00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:31.840
I mean, and and mind you, like, change is good.
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:36.159
Change generally in life is good if you're changing in the right direction, right?
00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:38.480
Because you can change for the better or for worse.
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:41.039
And this was not a positive change.
00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:51.679
I mean, listen, I love my Pilates and whatnot, but uh yeah, it definitely contributed to where we are or aren't right now.
00:34:52.320 --> 00:35:11.280
And God, do I wish I could time travel and do things with the knowledge I have now and and do it differently because I'm I wasn't I was a great partner overall, but this version of me would be so much better, you know?
00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:12.880
Yeah.
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:17.440
We can't go back in time.
00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:19.039
Are you sure?
00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:21.760
Aren't they working on this?
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:28.079
I hope not, because the problem with that is if you did, you still wouldn't have the knowledge.
00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:32.400
Oh no, I want to go back in time with the knowledge I have somehow.
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:33.199
Yeah, mm-hmm.
00:35:33.679 --> 00:35:37.679
So, like if we just need to let NASA know that that's how they need to do it.
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:38.639
And give up on NASA.
00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:39.360
I'll let them know.
00:35:39.679 --> 00:35:40.480
That's ridiculous.
00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:41.840
Absolutely and give up on what?
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:43.039
Meeting me.
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:48.079
Oh no, no, no, you're like somehow you gotta be worked in there somehow.
00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:49.920
Yeah, uh details.
00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:50.719
We'll figure it out.
00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:51.920
I'll let NASA know.
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:54.480
Okay, fearful avoidant with a plan.
00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:57.760
Always, and and I think that you guys don't have a plan, right?
00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:00.079
I think that you guys just you just similarly.
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:04.239
Yeah, why because there isn't just one plan, there's multiples.
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:04.880
I know.
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:07.199
So that's what makes it a genius.
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:10.880
What would you have changed if you could go back?
00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:13.360
And that relationship?
00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:17.679
Damn, okay, okay, well.
00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:26.960
First of all, I would have let myself lean on him more.
00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:37.039
Because I didn't, because of you know, the all the stuff we talked about, the self-sufficient and and don't bother, don't be a burden.
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:39.920
Yeah.
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:43.119
Oh god, don't don't cry, don't cry.
00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:45.280
But safe space, you could cry.
00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:49.119
Yeah, oh I know, but you know, I don't need the snot recorded on there.
00:36:49.360 --> 00:36:51.519
I mean, I've known you for a while and I could say this.
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:56.559
It's actually a good thing that you're crying because again, people do not believe that avoidance can have feelings.
00:36:56.639 --> 00:37:00.239
So oh yeah, we got all the feelings, they're all tier.
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:08.480
Why is it more comfortable for you to tear up with me than it would have been outside of this?
00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:30.159
And again, that whole situation with the VIP to say that that it destroyed me is such a strong, but it holy shit, that it knocked me on my butt, you know?
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:44.320
And when I met you at that point, I could not have cared less how you see me, if I'm covered in snot, if I'm if my hair is done for our you know, appointment or not.
00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:47.599
And so that's the space you got to know me in.
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:49.599
So now I'm comfortable.
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:59.039
But mind you, I I was talking to a friend about six weeks ago, and and she asked about something, and I felt like I was tearing up.
00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:01.440
I literally grabbed a blanket.
00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:03.360
I was on her couch.
00:38:03.440 --> 00:38:13.280
I grabbed a blanket and I put it over my head like I'm a toddler, just so she wouldn't see me cry, even though obviously she knew I'm crying under that stupid blanket, right?
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:15.599
But I'm like, oh my god, what am I doing?
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:22.400
Yeah, but I was like, somehow, if she didn't see it, maybe it didn't happen, so we're still cool.
00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:36.800
Yeah, I just I've always been like the strong one in my friend group and and the one that has the answers, and the one you come to advice for, not not the one who sits there like snotty and crying.
00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:37.760
Yeah.
00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:44.400
What makes you or what made you think that you crying would have looked not strong?
00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:46.480
Again, that's me.
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:50.800
You know, it's again nothing my friends have ever said or done.
00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:59.519
It's my internal view, and I don't I don't view people as weak or anything when they cry.
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:05.679
So, why did you think that it would be a thing that people would view you as?
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:08.719
Take me back to childhood, take me back to your childhood.
00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:10.320
I don't want to go there.
00:39:11.199 --> 00:39:20.239
You saw you saw someone someone who was unable to control their emotions, and you thought of it as weak.
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:28.400
You know, I think okay, wow, this is great.
00:39:28.719 --> 00:39:31.840
We're unlocking so many different things now.
00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:44.239
So for me personally, I have always struggled a bit with my weight due to some whatever crap and from my childhood that we're not gonna get into.
00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:56.960
But I believe my dad saw that as weakness, as me not being strong enough or uh self-controlled enough to manage my weight.
00:39:57.039 --> 00:39:58.320
And why are you like this?
00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:00.000
Why do you look a certain way?
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:07.039
And you know, for him, the way I looked was a reflection of him, which is so stupid.
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:13.039
I literally saw him yesterday, and the weight issue came up again because I'm like, yeah, why not?
00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:14.159
I'm in my 30s.
00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:17.440
I don't worry, I put people in their place yesterday.
00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:29.679
But but growing up, it was like, yeah, the like you're not in control of yourself because you've gained weight or you haven't lost weight or whatever, right?
00:40:29.840 --> 00:40:31.840
So why aren't you?
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:34.000
So that was a part of it too.
00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:43.360
I remember now that you asked that question, I literally had like almost like a flashback to me asking my mom or my parents for help.
00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:46.000
I was doing something in a garage, you know, it was summertime.
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:50.800
You're running around with a hose and trying to get your cousins or whatnot.
00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:55.599
And I remember asking them for help, like undoing something.
00:40:55.840 --> 00:41:00.320
And they're like, Well, you're big enough, you you got this, or well, go figure it out.
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:02.079
You're big enough, right?
00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:08.800
And I don't have any kids, but I've worked with children and I've taken care of a lot of kids.
00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:21.039
And if a child asks me for help, I could encourage them to give it a try while I'm standing there helping them or guiding them, but I would never be like, you're big enough, go do it yourself, you know.
00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:26.480
Like that literally taught me not to ask for help, right?
00:41:27.199 --> 00:41:36.880
And so to kind of go back to in a very roundaround way to your original question, how would I have changed the relationship with him?
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:41.440
I wish I was able to ask him for help.
00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:49.599
You know, like because I know him and he would have, oh my god, like he would have helped no no issues.
00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:53.840
And if he couldn't, he would have found someone else who could help me.
00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:57.920
I truly wholeheartedly believe that to this day.
00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:08.880
If, you know, if the world was ending kind of trouble and I needed him, I truly believe that he would come through.
00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:12.960
Maybe he wouldn't be happy about, you know, me being like blah blah blah.
00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:15.519
But I I truly believe he he would.
00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:20.159
That's the the person and the human being that he is at the core.
00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:35.119
And so I wish I would have been able to be, and you know, the whole concept of feminine and masculine, I people can't see me rolling my eyes, but I'm literally rolling my eyes at that.
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:53.519
Like, yes, it exists and all that, but I've never because I grew up in a household full of women with a dad who wanted a boy, I feel like I became the de facto boy in the family, just because well, someone's gotta do it.
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:58.960
Mom is crying, older sister is being herself, and the other two are too young.
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:00.800
So I'm like, all right.
00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:04.480
I don't know if you've seen Mulan, but I guess I was Mulan, you know?
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:07.119
Huge Disney fan.
00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:08.079
Yeah, yeah.
00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:11.119
How do you think he felt the VIP?
00:43:11.199 --> 00:43:17.519
How do you think VIP felt when you didn't lean on him?
00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:22.800
See, I guess that's the whole masculine feminine crap.
00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:24.880
Air quotes, air quotes.
00:43:26.320 --> 00:43:32.079
And then mind you, masculine feminine energies are great, only if it's on the healthy side, right?
00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:36.559
There's the unhealthy, and and that's what you were more than likely to do.
00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:37.039
Yeah.
00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:49.920
And you know, given what I do for work as well and the environments I work in, my work puts me in a what you would call masculine energy simply because I have to be a decision maker.
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:54.880
I have to like go, go, go, and I gotta tell people what to do, and I have to convince them to do it sometimes, right?
00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:56.320
Like even if they don't want to.
00:43:56.400 --> 00:43:59.599
I'm like, no, no, this is what we're doing, or you're gonna die.
00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:27.840
So, anyways, I think maybe, and again, I can't speak to exactly how it made him feel, but I can imagine that would make me feel not masculine or enough, or or like that person doesn't feel safe with me, which is so sad because I have always felt safe with him.
00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:35.760
And like I said, I literally to this day know that I could always have leaned on him, and just I wouldn't allow myself to do that.
00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:45.039
So that part is on me, not on him, because I knew I could, and I knew he would have my back.
00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:52.159
I was just almost like scared to test that, if that makes sense.
00:44:53.119 --> 00:44:58.320
And yet I knew that the result of the test would be that he would be there.
00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:03.360
But at the same time, but wait, there's more, there's a plot twist, right?
00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:05.599
Given the fact that we're not together right now.
00:45:05.920 --> 00:45:11.679
I'm like, but so my old self kind of comes back, it's like it's like a peekaboo, and it's like, but would he?
00:45:11.760 --> 00:45:13.119
Because he's not here right now.
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:15.199
So I have to shut her up, right?
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:17.199
Because I'm like, no, he would have.
00:45:17.360 --> 00:45:20.880
If I presented differently, we would be in a different place right now.
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:22.719
So I need to shut that.
00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:26.480
Uh is are adult words okay here?
00:45:27.119 --> 00:45:28.159
You said shit.
00:45:28.239 --> 00:45:28.800
Yeah, I think so.
00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:31.679
Okay, so I need to shut that bitch up, okay?
00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:32.960
Yeah.
00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:34.079
Okay.
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:37.920
So I mean, there's a scale of adult words too, you know?
00:45:38.239 --> 00:45:39.280
That is true.
00:45:39.519 --> 00:45:44.719
Well, according to what my my kids would say is let's not use the really bad ones.
00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:45.360
Okay.
00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:47.599
Or try not to.
00:45:48.159 --> 00:45:48.639
Fine.
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:50.719
You can't have fun, I guess.
00:45:51.039 --> 00:45:51.760
I know, right?
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:58.400
Here I am talking about bringing your manual back and being your old self, but let's still be controlled.
00:45:58.480 --> 00:45:59.679
Oh my gosh.
00:46:05.199 --> 00:46:05.760
Whoops.
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:07.920
Oh my gosh, I got you, didn't I?
00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:08.960
Yeah, no, no, no.
00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:10.480
I almost said VIP's name.
00:46:10.639 --> 00:46:12.400
I have to remember that I'm on air.
00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:12.880
I know.
00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:13.599
Thanks.
00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:14.800
I appreciate that.
00:46:17.119 --> 00:46:18.559
I'm wondering.
00:46:19.119 --> 00:46:23.039
Like you talked about the masculine, you know, you're in your masculine at work.
00:46:23.360 --> 00:46:24.000
I get that.
00:46:24.159 --> 00:46:28.639
And and every human being, we all have a masculine and a feminine, right?
00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:29.280
Right.
00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:33.039
That masculine needs to come out at certain times in every human.
00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:36.320
So with me and my work, that's this is where you get the masculine version.
00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:41.039
Or when you're on the phone with customer care, you know, that's when the masculine needs to come out.
00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:45.920
When I'm with my kids and when I'm with Larry, it's like, oh, I don't want to do this.
00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:48.960
And I'm really, you know, like, can I please have water?
00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:50.719
And you know, I could ask, I'm comfortable.
00:46:50.960 --> 00:46:51.280
Right, right.
00:46:51.679 --> 00:46:52.960
That could even be whiny.
00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:54.480
Yeah.
00:46:54.559 --> 00:46:57.280
So the masculine and feminine role does come out.
00:46:57.519 --> 00:47:06.400
How did his masculine role show up for you in the relationship that makes you feel like or makes you know that you would have been safe there?
00:47:06.559 --> 00:47:18.800
And I think that the one of the intriguing parts that most people are going to be questioning here is as you share these emotions, you felt safe with him, you knew he was going to be there.
00:47:19.519 --> 00:47:25.599
You does there was still that part of you that says, okay, even though you know this, let's not test it just in case.
00:47:25.760 --> 00:47:36.480
And it sounds like even though you've gone through all of this healing work, you now can recognize that that old version of you pops in and still tries to caution you, still tries to say, Well, would he?
00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:40.079
Because really, if you would have, would he not be here?
00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:45.679
And you've learned how to say to that older voice, like, hey, you don't belong here, shut up.
00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:46.960
You can call her a bitch.
00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:47.519
Okay.
00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:51.360
You've learned to tell that bitch, shut the hell up, stay away.
00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:52.639
You don't belong here.
00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:54.320
Right?
00:47:54.559 --> 00:47:57.760
However, let's keep in mind that bitch saved you all those years.
00:47:57.840 --> 00:47:59.199
You've you've saved, she did.
00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:00.239
Okay, all right.
00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:04.480
So let's be grateful for her while we put her down quietly.
00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:08.880
What does that feel like?
00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:15.920
What does that feel like to live with that fear of knowing this person's gonna be there for me?
00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:20.960
But I'm so scared to test it because what if I depend on them and they're suddenly not there?
00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:22.400
And then they do leave.
00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:29.599
So the part where then they do leave, that feels like shit.
00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:32.480
Not to use the bigger adult words, you know.
00:48:32.719 --> 00:48:34.159
Did you did you compare?
00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:39.440
Did you like in that moment when when he left, did you was that confirmation?
00:48:39.679 --> 00:48:44.079
Did it feel like, oh well, uh in that moment, yes.
00:48:44.239 --> 00:48:50.480
In that moment, that was like, well, I in my mind, it was like, well, I should have seen that coming.
00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:52.239
Why would it be any different?
00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:53.679
I should have known.
00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:55.519
Never ends differently.
00:48:55.840 --> 00:48:57.519
I guess I wasn't worth it.
00:48:57.679 --> 00:48:59.199
I guess I wasn't good enough.
00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:01.840
All those freaking things, right?
00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:06.960
It's like, well, now we know I was right in a way.
00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:13.760
It was like, well, see, you are right to be careful, you are right to be cautious, you are right to be that way.
00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:15.840
Because what if you gave him more?
00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:23.199
What if you gave him and mind you, that man had 99% access to my heart.
00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:34.400
There wasn't very much that he hasn't seen or hasn't known, or yeah, 99%, you know?
00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:41.360
So, and yet the thought was like, oh, good thing you didn't give him a hundred then, right?
00:49:41.679 --> 00:49:44.079
Because he still would have.
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:44.880
Yeah.
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:50.639
So, in a way, it was like, there, there, you, you were right to protect yourself that way.
00:49:50.960 --> 00:49:53.119
Because look at the outcome, right?
00:49:53.280 --> 00:50:02.719
So it took me a while to turn that around in my own head, where no, no, no, it wasn't like there, there, you were right.
00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:14.880
It's if I was able and capable at that time to be, and not that I wasn't being myself because obviously I was.
00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:28.960
I'm not, you know, if I had the knowledge that I have now and I would have lived my life differently through that prism of being more securely attached, then we wouldn't have gotten to this place to begin with.
00:50:29.199 --> 00:50:31.760
So there wouldn't have been that confirmation, right?
00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:38.079
But like I said, that evil little pinch tries to pop up and be like, see, we have our confirmation.
00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:43.440
I'm like, no, he contributed and I contributed.
00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:48.480
It takes two to tango, and I certainly tangoed as well, right?
00:50:48.800 --> 00:50:55.920
So it's not a confirmation of my expectation that you know people leave.
00:50:56.480 --> 00:51:06.000
It's how I was then and how me being that way made him be a certain way too, right?
00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:14.639
Because we were a unit, so we affected each other, hence the outcome.
00:51:14.800 --> 00:51:20.000
And it's funny because I know I've been and I've been using this to explain this to a friend, right?
00:51:20.159 --> 00:51:28.000
Even if if you were to get back together with your person, how would the original equation is a plus b equals c?
00:51:28.159 --> 00:51:31.039
And she's like, Well, what if he hasn't changed?
00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:32.559
I'm like, well, guess what?
00:51:32.719 --> 00:51:50.719
Right now it would now be A plus X equals, we don't know what, but it's no longer the same equation because I or her would no longer present in that relationship the same way, it would be a very much a different relationship.
00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:52.079
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:53.280
Oh, yeah, because you're different.
00:51:53.440 --> 00:51:54.559
Oh different equation.
00:51:54.800 --> 00:51:56.159
It's it's different people.
00:51:56.480 --> 00:52:02.880
The moment you go your separate ways, you be and especially when you start doing healing work, you become a very different person.
00:52:03.039 --> 00:52:05.199
So VIP has never met you.
00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:09.119
No, he has he knows a version, an older version of you.
00:52:09.280 --> 00:52:13.440
It's like an upgrade to a computer system, and it's an upgrade for sure.
00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:14.639
Like it's an upgrade.
00:52:15.519 --> 00:52:17.280
You've been doing incredibly well.
00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:21.280
What would it look like getting back together?
00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:27.440
I mean, there would be unicorns flying, pigs flying, flowers everywhere.
00:52:27.679 --> 00:52:28.159
No, I'm kidding.
00:52:28.400 --> 00:52:28.960
Okay, got it.
00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:46.320
I think that would be I think it would have to be like a slow, kind of slow burn kind of thing, where it's like a slow reintroduction, as much as I would love to be like just jump into his arms and you know, whatever.
00:52:48.159 --> 00:52:59.920
But given the fact that I am a different person, and you know, I don't know if he has done any healing work or or or not, but the time alone changes us too, right?
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:16.480
So we both would be different people, but it would have to be slow and steady to kind of get to know each other anew, because it's not it's not picking up where you left off, it's literally starting something new.
00:53:16.719 --> 00:53:19.679
So it would have to be treated as such.
00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:32.159
And for me, I've done a lot of like forgiveness work, like forgiveness meditation, and not not forgiving him only, but also forgiving myself.
00:53:33.119 --> 00:53:35.679
Because yes, was I hurt, was I frustrated?
00:53:35.840 --> 00:53:36.880
Of course.
00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:53.920
But there was also a lot of me blaming myself, and that's not something I want to sit with for the rest of my life because I'm like, you know what, that's that's how I'm gonna be 95 and have five cats and and have never left the apartment and still like sitting there bitterly.
00:53:54.639 --> 00:53:59.199
Yeah, so I don't want to not forgive him, not forgive myself.
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:01.119
I I have forgiven both.
00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:13.119
So he would have to be on the same page where he's not kind of holding the old stuff up against me, where it's like, well, you know, two years ago you said blah blah blah.
00:54:13.280 --> 00:54:15.360
I'm like, that wasn't me.
00:54:15.519 --> 00:54:23.840
I mean, it was me, but not the current me, if that makes sense, you know, because okay, now I just sound crazy, but yeah, it was me, but we're not the same people anymore.
00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:25.599
Yeah, it changed.
00:54:25.760 --> 00:54:29.920
That was just a tiny percentage of who you are, short period of time, right?
00:54:30.320 --> 00:54:36.880
Someone listening to this, listening to an anxious attached, listening to you say, Well, I'm gonna go slow.
00:54:37.039 --> 00:54:39.920
I think we need to go slow and not pick up where we left off.
00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:48.400
They're probably thinking, there she goes again with her avoidant self, not sure of what she wants, not wanting to commit, not wanting labels.
00:54:48.719 --> 00:54:50.079
Why would you want to go slow?
00:54:50.159 --> 00:54:54.880
I I get it, but I want to hear your perspective on this go slow.
00:54:55.360 --> 00:54:58.800
First of all, I do love labels of relationships.
00:54:59.199 --> 00:55:02.079
I love commitment, I want commitment.
00:55:02.320 --> 00:55:05.119
Commitment means different things for different people.
00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:08.400
I was never big on like, oh my god, I need to get married.
00:55:08.719 --> 00:55:11.039
Just not because I don't want to get married.
00:55:11.119 --> 00:55:19.599
I just in my heart and in my mind, I don't need to sign a piece of paper to be wholeheartedly committed to someone for the rest of my life.
00:55:20.239 --> 00:55:22.960
I thought I was already there.
00:55:23.199 --> 00:55:24.719
Let's put it that way.
00:55:27.519 --> 00:55:28.320
Labels.
00:55:28.400 --> 00:55:28.800
Hmm.
00:55:28.960 --> 00:55:32.960
Yeah, so I do appreciate a label of a relationship.
00:55:33.679 --> 00:55:44.159
And no, I don't think it's me being avoidant, I think it's just me taking the time to reintroduce myself to that person, if that were to ever happen.
00:55:45.440 --> 00:55:50.480
And me, in a way, okay, let's put it this way.
00:55:50.639 --> 00:56:01.039
If we jumped back in, I think that evil bitch would pop up because it would be like back to old patterns, and she'd be like, peekaboo, I'm back, and I'm taking the driver's seat.
00:56:01.280 --> 00:56:08.000
Whereas if I were to go slow, then it's like a kid passenger in the back seat.
00:56:08.079 --> 00:56:10.480
I'll be like, oh, we've met some kind of a marker.
00:56:10.559 --> 00:56:12.159
Like we hit mile five.
00:56:12.400 --> 00:56:13.599
Bitch tries to pop up.
00:56:13.679 --> 00:56:17.119
I'll be like, bitch, have a snack in the backseat.
00:56:17.199 --> 00:56:17.679
It's okay.
00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:18.639
We're still driving.
00:56:18.719 --> 00:56:20.079
We're still en route.
00:56:20.159 --> 00:56:22.000
We're still going to the same destination.
00:56:22.159 --> 00:56:25.039
We're just taking the scenic route, but we're still going.
00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:27.599
She sits back, eats her snack in the back.
00:56:27.760 --> 00:56:29.679
We hit mile 10, she tries again.
00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:31.920
I can feed her again, be like, we're good.
00:56:32.079 --> 00:56:37.440
Whereas if I jumped right in, she would kick me out of that driver's seat so fast and take over.
00:56:37.760 --> 00:56:39.360
What would she be afraid of?
00:56:40.880 --> 00:56:43.920
She would be afraid of the same thing happening.
00:56:44.480 --> 00:56:44.880
Right?
00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:47.920
Like us not working out potentially.
00:56:49.199 --> 00:56:49.599
Yeah.
00:56:49.840 --> 00:56:52.960
But at the same time, she would be the one who would sabotage it.
00:56:53.039 --> 00:56:55.519
So it's it's a bit of like catch 22, right?
00:56:55.599 --> 00:57:03.440
Because she would be afraid of that not working out, but then her behaviors and her actions would be responsible for things not working out.
00:57:03.599 --> 00:57:06.320
So it's like, what is happening here?
00:57:06.880 --> 00:57:08.079
So here's what I'm hearing.
00:57:08.239 --> 00:57:13.599
I'm hearing that what you refer to as bitch is actually your triggers.
00:57:13.840 --> 00:57:14.719
The triggers.
00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:20.639
And you're now in control of those triggers, and you know that you need to go at a specific pace.
00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:26.880
Whereas in the past, the triggers were really acting as the puppet master.
00:57:27.039 --> 00:57:30.400
They took over and you were just moving along.
00:57:30.559 --> 00:57:32.239
You couldn't really process.
00:57:32.639 --> 00:57:34.480
You were triggered, you moved.
00:57:34.719 --> 00:57:40.639
Right now you were in control and you know exactly why you need to stay in control.
00:57:41.199 --> 00:57:50.800
Yeah, I feel like if we were super fast, it's like you're driving on the road and you have like 10 speed bumps that you can see, and you decide to hit them at 50 miles an hour.
00:57:51.039 --> 00:57:52.559
You now have a concussion.
00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:55.760
But if you go five miles, then you're like, oh, speed bump.
00:57:55.840 --> 00:57:56.880
Okay, I got over it.
00:57:56.960 --> 00:57:58.400
Oh, another speed bump.
00:57:58.639 --> 00:58:08.639
Instead of like 10 of them hitting you at once and overwhelming you, you now drive over a speed bump, realize it's a speed bump, and you choose to move forward onto the next one.
00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:13.920
Versus if you go fast, it will all hit you all at once and overwhelm you.
00:58:14.079 --> 00:58:18.320
And that's when the default setting will kind of take over.
00:58:18.960 --> 00:58:22.559
And and I can see it now, which is kind of cool.
00:58:22.800 --> 00:58:27.760
Yeah, and it's it's it it is, and you're you're seeing that this is what consistency looks like.
00:58:27.920 --> 00:58:31.840
It doesn't consistency doesn't mean speed up the process, right?
00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:43.119
It means I'm seeing the speed bumps, I'm dealing with the speed bumps, and I'm consistently staying to deal with the speed bumps because I know they're going to come, and that's what it is.
00:58:43.280 --> 00:58:45.760
And it's like I have this destination in mind.
00:58:45.920 --> 00:58:49.280
I don't plan on veering off and going on another road.
00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:58.800
I'm staying on this track, but I need to trust that the other person is going to stay in the car with me when we get to the speed bumps.
00:58:58.960 --> 00:58:59.360
Right.
00:58:59.599 --> 00:59:01.679
And that that is the consistency.
00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:07.039
We're getting the language is all mixed up across social media, what consistency is.
00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:10.239
People think consistency is talking every day.
00:59:10.400 --> 00:59:10.960
That's not it.
00:59:11.039 --> 00:59:11.920
It's a bigger issue.
00:59:12.079 --> 00:59:15.840
It's like, how do you handle situations when they arise?
00:59:16.079 --> 00:59:18.880
Uncomfortable situation, conflicts.
00:59:19.199 --> 00:59:29.360
The other person needs to know that even when there is a conflict, this person consistently shows up to resolve the conflict.
00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:31.199
I think that's what you're saying.
00:59:31.280 --> 00:59:36.400
You you want to make sure that you know he doesn't leave at the next sign of trouble.
00:59:36.639 --> 00:59:37.199
Right.
00:59:37.519 --> 00:59:38.719
Instead of jumping in.
00:59:39.280 --> 00:59:48.480
And mind you, I have no reason to think that he would because he was very consistent throughout our relationship until the end, right?
00:59:48.880 --> 00:59:55.760
So that's the part that we have to be careful of because there is reason for you to be afraid.
00:59:56.400 --> 00:59:57.440
You don't want to overlook it.
00:59:57.599 --> 01:00:01.360
The fact that you did leave, yes, you are going to be a little scared.
01:00:01.599 --> 01:00:02.000
Oh, yeah.
01:00:02.320 --> 01:00:11.280
But you look into the past, you could say, okay, this is not someone who would just up and leave unless there was enough reason for this person to not feel safe.
01:00:11.840 --> 01:00:12.159
Exactly.
01:00:12.400 --> 01:00:15.760
But yeah, you are going to feel a little uncomfortable.
01:00:15.920 --> 01:00:23.360
Now, this has been a long period of space between the two of you.
01:00:24.079 --> 01:00:27.199
It's entirely up to you if you want to share how long it's been.
01:00:27.519 --> 01:00:43.920
The reason I want to address this just a little bit is many people believe that after a breakup or separation, avoidant attached persons jump into another relationship.
01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:47.360
I know this has not been the case with you.
01:00:47.840 --> 01:00:53.519
It has not been the case with me, and it's been a little bit over eight months.
01:00:54.719 --> 01:00:58.639
Yeah, so definitely not the case of with only avoidance.
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:09.920
No, I I literally am beyond zero interest in jumping into something different or new with anyone else.
01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:14.880
You know, I'm a bit of a romantic at heart, so there is that too.
01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:26.159
But I truly believe that VIP was, still is in my heart, the person that I'm meant to be with.
01:01:26.320 --> 01:01:32.880
So for me to no, I'm just not interested in jumping into it.
01:01:32.960 --> 01:01:33.920
Wouldn't be the same.
01:01:34.079 --> 01:01:35.039
It wouldn't be worth it.
01:01:35.199 --> 01:01:48.159
It wouldn't be worth my time, my effort, my mental space sacrificing or sharing, you know, your soul, your body, whatever, what have you?
01:01:49.119 --> 01:01:51.599
No, not worth it, in my opinion.
01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:56.239
Until I'm somehow convinced otherwise, it ain't worth it.
01:01:56.880 --> 01:02:05.360
Well what would you say about those avoidant attached persons who can jump into another relationship?
01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:07.760
What's the difference with them and you?
01:02:10.159 --> 01:02:10.880
Great question.
01:02:10.960 --> 01:02:14.400
I mean, there is fearful avoidance and there's dismissive avoidance too.
01:02:14.480 --> 01:02:15.039
There's that.
01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:25.199
And I think I think for me at one point I was leaning more anxious in my fearful avoidant little whatever.
01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:26.239
Yeah, swing.
01:02:26.320 --> 01:02:26.639
Yeah.
01:02:26.800 --> 01:02:27.119
Sorry.
01:02:27.280 --> 01:02:28.960
I forgot I forget people can't see me.
01:02:29.119 --> 01:02:50.159
I'm like, whereas if someone leans more avoidant, I can see, and and mind you, I've done that too in the past, where not relationship-wise, I was never that person who jump into like a relationship, but I would want to distract myself with something, right?
01:02:50.320 --> 01:02:58.239
Be it work, be it, I don't know, watching movies for 20 hours a day, just so your brain stops going.
01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:01.440
Distraction, distraction, distraction.
01:03:01.519 --> 01:03:09.119
And and I think that's what it is when someone jumps right into a new relationship, or maybe they're just hoping, oh, look, a new shiny thing, right?
01:03:09.280 --> 01:03:15.440
I I think that's what it is a lot of the times, especially in like a longer-term relationship, right?
01:03:15.920 --> 01:03:18.880
You know, like, oh look, now I get to experience all those new things.
01:03:18.960 --> 01:03:22.239
I'm like, okay, knock yourself out, dummy.
01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:25.199
But uh, I mean, we all process differently.
01:03:25.360 --> 01:03:33.920
For me, that's not processing, that's just numbing and avoiding feeling or thinking about things.
01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:36.880
And and that's not how I want to live my life.
01:03:37.039 --> 01:03:43.760
I don't want to pretend that things didn't happen or pretend like they don't affect me because they clearly do.
01:03:44.639 --> 01:03:56.320
Yeah, so I think a lot of people don't realize that avoidants feel all the things, maybe not at the time that we expect them to, but sooner or later it will get to you.
01:03:56.559 --> 01:04:00.719
I hate to tell you if you're an avoidant, but it will get to you sooner or later.
01:04:00.880 --> 01:04:03.519
It will hit you, probably when you least expect it, you know.
01:04:03.679 --> 01:04:10.000
Cause I mean, maybe someone we know, maybe someone who's talking right now, has cried at the weirdest locations possible.
01:04:10.159 --> 01:04:11.039
We don't know.
01:04:11.280 --> 01:04:12.800
Maybe, maybe she did.
01:04:13.119 --> 01:04:13.440
Yeah.
01:04:13.679 --> 01:04:24.639
Well, you know, I don't know if you were reading my mind, but I was going to ask you, what advice would you give to an avoidant attached person who might be in a relationship right now?
01:04:25.360 --> 01:04:27.280
They're afraid of sharing.
01:04:27.519 --> 01:04:31.599
You might be walking down the very path that you walk down.
01:04:31.840 --> 01:04:33.599
What advice would you give them?
01:04:34.000 --> 01:04:36.639
Well, so to book a session with Annalisa, no.
01:04:39.280 --> 01:04:44.480
Honestly, I wish I have met you sooner.
01:04:46.400 --> 01:04:55.440
So putting in the work now versus when shit hits the fan, because at that point, it is a lot harder to fix things.
01:04:55.599 --> 01:05:00.880
You can prevent things from breaking versus putting it back together after it already broke, right?
01:05:01.119 --> 01:05:01.920
Are you telling me?
01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:03.039
Of course I know.
01:05:03.280 --> 01:05:04.320
It's like them, them.
01:05:04.639 --> 01:05:06.400
I'm like, come on, people.
01:05:06.559 --> 01:05:07.679
This is it's harder.
01:05:07.760 --> 01:05:11.280
It's always harder to get and repair when you're in.
01:05:11.440 --> 01:05:14.639
There's um James Sexton, is that his name?
01:05:14.719 --> 01:05:16.800
That the divorce lawyer, New York divorce lawyer.
01:05:16.960 --> 01:05:17.760
Love that guy.
01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:21.360
He wrote a book and it says, if you're in my office, it's already late.
01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:22.159
Thank God.
01:05:22.239 --> 01:05:23.679
In my practice, that's not the case.
01:05:23.760 --> 01:05:25.119
It's not always too late.
01:05:25.280 --> 01:05:28.079
Right, but it is difficult, it's really difficult.
01:05:28.400 --> 01:05:32.159
Yeah, I mean, so put in the work.
01:05:32.239 --> 01:05:47.119
You don't have to like if you're not ready to talk to your person yet about how you're feeling, talk to someone who can kind of guide you through it, like yourself or someone similar to to you, where you can learn to express yourself, right?
01:05:47.280 --> 01:05:59.760
Or you can see, or you can learn to see the triggers that that set you off, or make you pull away from your partner, or make you freak out and go like crazy anxious, where you're like bombarding them with texts and.
01:06:00.480 --> 01:06:05.519
Phone calls and then they freak out because that's a bit much, right?
01:06:05.679 --> 01:06:12.320
I mean, we've all been again as a fearful avoidance, kind of kind of fun because I get to see both ends of the spectrum in a way.
01:06:12.559 --> 01:06:21.440
Because I've been on a receiving end, you know, of like an anxious guy bombarding my phone with text, and I'd be like, oh my, oh my god, no.
01:06:21.679 --> 01:06:24.400
It's like off-putting, right?
01:06:25.920 --> 01:06:32.400
And nothing ever came of it because I would be turned off, especially like early on.
01:06:32.639 --> 01:06:33.840
Mm-mm, nope.
01:06:34.400 --> 01:06:37.760
So yeah, go and and get some help.
01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:40.800
It's as simple as starting with reading a book.
01:06:41.039 --> 01:06:48.159
You know, there's lots of them, or listening to a podcast, and then when you're ready, just start learning, you know.
01:06:48.239 --> 01:06:56.960
And and I find that working on attachment styles is so different than therapy, like regular therapy, right?
01:06:57.760 --> 01:07:01.360
Not to mention working with a coach versus a therapist.
01:07:01.920 --> 01:07:03.360
That's different too, right?
01:07:03.519 --> 01:07:06.639
Because a therapist can't really tell you, like, you're being stupid right now.
01:07:06.719 --> 01:07:09.199
Whereas a coach would, a good one would.
01:07:09.599 --> 01:07:10.639
Well, but you know what I mean?
01:07:10.719 --> 01:07:21.039
Like they can't kind of tell you what to do, they want to guide you to like get to your own conclusions, whereas with the coach, that relationship is a little different.
01:07:21.599 --> 01:07:23.280
I I can't explain it.
01:07:24.079 --> 01:07:26.079
You really do think that they're all like me?
01:07:26.239 --> 01:07:29.280
I mean, you you you you no, that's what I'm saying.
01:07:29.360 --> 01:07:30.719
They're different, they're different.
01:07:30.800 --> 01:07:32.000
That's what I'm just saying.
01:07:34.000 --> 01:07:35.280
So hard to please this moment.
01:07:36.960 --> 01:07:41.599
There is there's a show, I can't remember if it was Netflix or HBO, Dr.
01:07:41.840 --> 01:07:44.239
Schultz, or or maybe not Dr.
01:07:44.559 --> 01:07:46.880
Schultz or Schutz or something of the sort.
01:07:47.039 --> 01:07:47.440
Uh-huh.
01:07:47.760 --> 01:07:54.159
He's uh a therapist, and I watched that show and it was incredible.
01:07:54.320 --> 01:08:01.440
I was I was thinking, my gosh, if every therapist can do what he does, he give tools.
01:08:01.679 --> 01:08:02.000
Right.
01:08:02.239 --> 01:08:03.039
That's the difference.
01:08:03.199 --> 01:08:08.239
A lot of times they don't give tools, and as a coach, I get to do that.
01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:11.360
I get to tickle with your past a little bit, right?
01:08:11.519 --> 01:08:15.840
And that's a little tricky, but I get to give you tools and push you.
01:08:15.920 --> 01:08:18.880
A coach gets to push you and hold you accountable.
01:08:19.119 --> 01:08:23.920
Whereas in therapy, not I I don't know what stops them.
01:08:24.560 --> 01:08:29.119
You know, maybe it's maybe it's the psychological weight, or I don't know.
01:08:29.359 --> 01:08:30.960
But yeah, we need tools.
01:08:31.119 --> 01:08:42.159
We all need tools, you know, to yes, you know, you mentioned reading the books, that's great, but then you've got to practice, practice the suggestions, which is what a lot of people don't want to do.
01:08:42.239 --> 01:08:46.560
So a lot of us are walking around with a ton of information, yeah.
01:08:46.960 --> 01:08:50.800
And that's the thing, you gotta like you can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk, right?
01:08:50.880 --> 01:08:52.079
And it's not easy.
01:08:52.319 --> 01:08:55.359
No, I literally had to practice it this week.
01:08:55.520 --> 01:09:02.399
And after I practiced, I almost felt like messaging my friends and apologizing or being like blah blah blah.
01:09:03.039 --> 01:09:12.640
So I, you know, I'm visiting, I'm out of town, and I drove for like three plus hours to get here, and I'm always the one coming down and driving.
01:09:12.880 --> 01:09:21.760
And then I always meet my friends roughly at the same two coffee shops or a bakery, whatever, for the past decade.
01:09:22.079 --> 01:09:24.640
Okay, and it's fine, totally fine.
01:09:24.800 --> 01:09:27.279
But I'm like, there are only so many French pastries I can eat.
01:09:27.359 --> 01:09:29.119
I mean, actually, no, I can eat them all.
01:09:29.279 --> 01:09:30.880
Let's be clear here.
01:09:31.760 --> 01:09:33.680
Avoidance catch your pen.
01:09:36.479 --> 01:09:45.760
Yes, but then so I already spent time of driving down here, and they would drive, they have driven up in the last decade twice.
01:09:46.000 --> 01:09:56.479
This is not to be calling anybody out, but I'm like, okay, there's an effort on my end, and and there was effort on their end, but we would always meet at the coffee shop, and that coffee shop is always close to them.
01:09:56.560 --> 01:10:00.479
So I would still drive from wherever I would be staying to meet them.
01:10:01.039 --> 01:10:02.960
And this time I'm like, you know what?
01:10:03.199 --> 01:10:04.399
I'm actually tired.
01:10:04.560 --> 01:10:16.880
Like, I've already driven three and a half hours, I have things to do, and and I don't want to waste another hour to get to somewhere where it's convenient for all of them, but not for me.
01:10:17.520 --> 01:10:20.560
So I messaged them like, hey, I'm in town.
01:10:20.800 --> 01:10:24.079
Let's meet at the place I'm staying at.
01:10:24.399 --> 01:10:25.760
What day works for you guys?
01:10:25.840 --> 01:10:33.199
And I create a little poll and they all voted, and you know, I could hear a little grumbling of like, I don't know if that day works for me in traffic and da-da-da.
01:10:33.359 --> 01:10:36.399
And in my head, I told my I told the bitch, I was like, you know what?
01:10:36.560 --> 01:10:38.720
If one of them can make it, that's not on me.
01:10:38.960 --> 01:10:40.159
I'll see them next time.
01:10:40.399 --> 01:10:42.720
So you're moving away from people pleasing.
01:10:42.960 --> 01:10:56.319
I'm trying really hard, but I like I said, at one point I was like, oh, should I be like, should I text them like, hey, sorry you guys, this is what I'm like, no, no, like I always make the effort, they can make the effort too.
01:10:56.399 --> 01:11:00.720
Like I have to give them the opportunity to make that effort.
01:11:01.600 --> 01:11:06.000
Now, one more uh question before I let you run off.
01:11:07.359 --> 01:11:24.640
What would you say to the partner of an avoid and detached person on how to approach their avoid and detached partner so that they can get some results and not have that relationship fall apart?
01:11:25.520 --> 01:11:28.159
Oh, that's a that's a good one.
01:11:29.600 --> 01:11:41.920
It's funny because I was taking some notes before our our chat, and I literally wrote patience, patience, that's how I let people in, and consistency.
01:11:43.119 --> 01:11:45.760
Girl, you know how much blocking I'm gonna get for that one?
01:11:46.079 --> 01:11:50.560
Because everybody out there, it's like, why do I have to be patient with the avoidant attached?
01:11:50.800 --> 01:11:59.119
My thing is if you want to be in a relationship, any relationship, even a secure attached people, tend to think that a secure attached person is gonna move fast, and that's not the case.
01:11:59.279 --> 01:12:01.439
But you're saying patience and what else?
01:12:02.239 --> 01:12:03.199
And consistency.
01:12:03.359 --> 01:12:05.680
I literally, I can like, it's right here.
01:12:06.319 --> 01:12:07.840
Patience and consistency.
01:12:07.920 --> 01:12:09.279
It says it right there.
01:12:10.319 --> 01:12:10.640
Yeah.
01:12:10.960 --> 01:12:18.560
So so the partner of partners of avoidant attached people, they believe that they're being patient and consistent.
01:12:18.720 --> 01:12:26.159
But what is the avoidant attached person seeing that shows that they're not really patient and consistent?
01:12:28.479 --> 01:12:32.239
Pushing them, or like just kind of like, give me an answer, give me an answer.
01:12:32.720 --> 01:12:41.840
That and and again, because like you said, people maybe get a little confused about the word consistency.
01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:48.319
As boring as it sounds, sometimes it just simply has to be a little bit repetitive, you know.
01:12:48.560 --> 01:12:52.479
I'm consistently, and it's the stupidest little things.
01:12:52.560 --> 01:13:02.720
It doesn't have to be anything big, it doesn't have to be you driving cross-country, it could be simply the fact that you bring me a glass of water to bed every night.
01:13:03.279 --> 01:13:12.960
Oh my god, I would literally VIP would make me coffee and bring it to bed when we were both off work.
01:13:14.159 --> 01:13:21.279
God, that is like the sweetest, most memorable memory I have, and it literally melts my heart.
01:13:21.840 --> 01:13:24.319
No, what would have happened if you didn't do it one day?
01:13:26.880 --> 01:13:28.800
Nothing, no, what would you have felt?
01:13:30.239 --> 01:13:30.880
You know what?
01:13:31.279 --> 01:13:53.520
In regards to coffee, we had this whole thing where we would like if he no, no, because like because I wasn't always insecurely attached to him, so because I knew he was consistent, if he didn't make it, I knew it wasn't because he didn't want to, it was because he was doing something else.
01:13:53.680 --> 01:13:57.600
But because we had that underlying consistency.
01:13:57.920 --> 01:13:59.680
Oh, you already had the trust.
01:13:59.920 --> 01:14:00.960
I already had the trust.
01:14:01.119 --> 01:14:04.720
It wasn't like, oh, he doesn't want to no, I'll be like, Oh, I'll make it today.
01:14:05.039 --> 01:14:05.439
Whatever.
01:14:05.600 --> 01:14:20.239
Yeah, I was I was getting to you know why why consistency is important because as human beings we look at patterns, and when something is something goes off the rail, we start worrying, wondering, you know, yeah, does he no longer care?
01:14:20.319 --> 01:14:20.880
Yeah, yeah.
01:14:22.560 --> 01:14:23.359
Yeah, yeah.
01:14:23.520 --> 01:14:31.199
It's like all of a sudden you think maybe you don't matter, you know, or like, are my needs not important anymore?
01:14:31.359 --> 01:14:33.039
Yeah, mind you changed.
01:14:33.359 --> 01:14:35.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:14:35.199 --> 01:14:40.720
Just side note, I did not feel that way with him because he was very consistent with his coffee making.
01:14:40.960 --> 01:14:44.640
We we had a deal, like he would make the coffee, I'd make breakfast, you know.
01:14:45.039 --> 01:14:45.840
Coffee's huge.
01:14:46.079 --> 01:14:47.680
I mean, I'm thinking about Larry too.
01:14:47.760 --> 01:14:50.880
He makes me coffee every morning, and then one morning he didn't.
01:14:50.960 --> 01:14:53.359
And I was like, wait a second, I didn't get coffee.
01:14:53.520 --> 01:14:56.640
He's like, Yeah, you said I don't know how to make your coffee your way.
01:14:56.800 --> 01:14:57.520
Cream and sugar.
01:14:57.680 --> 01:14:58.720
He doesn't make a cream and sugar.
01:14:58.800 --> 01:15:01.279
I was like, No, that's only for weekends.
01:15:01.600 --> 01:15:02.319
That's cute.
01:15:02.399 --> 01:15:03.039
But you know what?
01:15:03.119 --> 01:15:03.840
That's the same thing.
01:15:03.920 --> 01:15:08.960
Because I I at first, when he started making, because obviously it's a buildup, right?
01:15:09.119 --> 01:15:11.920
At first, I was like, he didn't make it my way.
01:15:12.000 --> 01:15:16.399
And then, but and this is for me part of the consistency, right?
01:15:16.479 --> 01:15:20.319
Because like the first time he made it, it wasn't made my way, right?
01:15:20.640 --> 01:15:24.640
So I got up, but I I'm not gonna tell you, this is whatever coffee.
01:15:24.800 --> 01:15:27.199
Oh, just get up and kind of fix it up the way I liked it.
01:15:27.359 --> 01:15:29.279
Yeah, just hang on one second, one second.
01:15:29.359 --> 01:15:30.239
I'm sorry, pause you.
01:15:30.399 --> 01:15:30.640
Uh-huh.
01:15:30.960 --> 01:15:38.079
For those of you who are listening to Decoding Attachment Styles, the interview or the discussion, it's not an interview, it's a discussion.
01:15:38.319 --> 01:15:39.359
Discussion's over.
01:15:39.439 --> 01:15:43.760
I'm gonna thank our guests for sharing our story, but I'm not gonna hit the stop button.
01:15:43.840 --> 01:15:44.880
We're just gonna keep talking.
01:15:45.039 --> 01:15:47.760
So if you want to continue listening, totally up to you.
01:15:48.000 --> 01:15:52.399
It's something that we have grown to do over the last few months.
01:15:52.479 --> 01:15:53.279
We just chit-chat.
01:15:53.359 --> 01:15:56.079
So if you want to stick around for the chit-chat, totally fine.
01:15:56.399 --> 01:16:03.279
But the discussion on attachment and behavior, the official part of it is done.
01:16:03.359 --> 01:16:05.359
We're probably gonna still talk about some stuff.
01:16:05.600 --> 01:16:06.800
I don't know what's gonna come up.
01:16:06.880 --> 01:16:11.520
But yeah, just wanted you to know if you wanna wait for the next episode.
01:16:11.600 --> 01:16:11.920
That's fine.
01:16:12.000 --> 01:16:14.800
If you want to stick around for this conversation, you could keep going.
01:16:15.119 --> 01:16:19.119
I mean, you're not being held hostage, I suppose, but uh yeah.
01:16:19.520 --> 01:16:20.960
What a great chat to have.
01:16:21.119 --> 01:16:24.000
But yeah, back to my coffee situation here.
01:16:24.640 --> 01:16:32.560
He started paying attention of what I was doing with it to fix it, and he learned how to make it my way.
01:16:32.720 --> 01:16:42.640
And to me, that was such a you know, not to mix love languages into this, but that coffee is my love language, and and him making it for me.
01:16:43.279 --> 01:16:52.560
I like I said, it doesn't have to be a big act of God knows what that to me showed consistency, love, and care, and all of the above.
01:16:52.800 --> 01:16:56.079
Well, in my case, I am going to pick my battles.
01:16:56.319 --> 01:17:05.840
I don't see Larry going anywhere close to milk, so I'll just on a Saturday and Sunday, I'll just get up and make my own coffee.
01:17:06.000 --> 01:17:09.840
And the thing with me and coffee is I don't like people messing with it.
01:17:10.479 --> 01:17:11.840
It's very, very difficult.
01:17:12.720 --> 01:17:19.680
Oh, he he is the only person that has made coffee for me, and I was like, this is perfect, this is good coffee.
01:17:19.760 --> 01:17:23.199
And and we would always experiment a little bit with our, you know, coffee.
01:17:23.680 --> 01:17:27.600
People of that culture are generally great at making coffee.
01:17:28.079 --> 01:17:34.560
Well, and we put a Canadian twist on it, so you know, we'd put a little bit of maple, maple syrup in it.
01:17:34.720 --> 01:17:35.439
Yeah, heck.
01:17:35.760 --> 01:17:37.600
Have you never tried it with maple syrup?
01:17:37.760 --> 01:17:40.479
No, girl, I gotta send you some Canadian maple syrup.
01:17:40.560 --> 01:17:42.239
And I have Canadian maple syrup.
01:17:42.399 --> 01:17:42.960
Okay, that's right.
01:17:43.119 --> 01:17:43.359
You should.
01:17:43.520 --> 01:17:46.000
You should exquisite, yes.
01:17:46.319 --> 01:17:49.840
Might be living in the US, but Aunt Jemima ain't my thing.
01:17:50.159 --> 01:17:52.640
No, no, but yeah, who, darling.
01:17:53.680 --> 01:17:55.119
Thank you so much for this.
01:17:55.279 --> 01:17:57.359
We're going to do it again soon.
01:17:57.680 --> 01:17:58.880
Sounds good to me.
01:17:59.119 --> 01:18:01.279
Any wise words you want to leave with me?
01:18:01.760 --> 01:18:04.399
Podcasts are not as scary as you think.
01:18:05.039 --> 01:18:05.520
I know.
01:18:05.680 --> 01:18:06.399
I told you that.
01:18:06.640 --> 01:18:07.199
Yeah, yeah.
01:18:07.359 --> 01:18:12.560
I mean, I'm still uh sweaty, but you know, it's just a conversation, it's really not a big deal.
01:18:12.880 --> 01:18:24.560
As to wise words, if you have an opportunity to look into your attachment style and put in the work early, because most people think it's only applicable to the romantic relationships.
01:18:24.800 --> 01:18:32.159
It is not, it is applicable to every single relationship, be it with colleagues at work, be it friends.
01:18:32.479 --> 01:18:36.079
I have benefited tremendously from this.
01:18:36.239 --> 01:18:45.119
I have been able to become more assertive at work where I need to be assertive instead of ending up in uncomfortable situations.
01:18:45.520 --> 01:18:50.800
And I'm growing my relationships with my friends because I can do things differently now.
01:18:50.960 --> 01:18:52.640
So look into it.
01:18:52.960 --> 01:18:54.479
Yeah, thank you.
01:18:54.800 --> 01:18:55.760
Thank you.