00:00:04:10 - 00:00:28:12
Unknown
Welcome back to Comfort Connections. I'm your host, Tiffany Robinson. Today we're exploring a shift in how we think about getting older. What if the goal isn't just a longer life, but a good one? My guess doctor Carrie Burney, a gerontologist who spent 18 years teaching geriatric medicine at UC Irvine and co-founded the nation's first elder abuse forensic center.
00:00:28:14 - 00:00:51:06
Unknown
She's the author of the New York Times bestseller Joy span, and she's here to talk about what it actually takes to thrive in life's second half. Doctor Carrie, welcome to the show. I'm delighted to be here. Before we get into Joy span itself, I'd love for listeners to know a bit about how you got here. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
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Unknown
Well, I feel like I was born a gerontologist, which is so crazy. My parents had two high schoolers. They were done having children. My mom thought she was in menopause and went to the doctor, who informed her that she was to have another child. That ended up being me. So in her 40s, she had one more and as my sister was learning to drive, I was, you know, learning to use a spoon.
00:01:22:04 - 00:01:57:11
Unknown
So I had an awareness because my father always had gray hair. And when people would say things about older adults as they do, it felt personal. So kind of planted the seed there. Then basically after college, I was lucky enough to learn of a program that was a PhD in the study of aging. And so that was the biology, the psychology, the sociology, the economics, the public policy.
00:01:57:11 - 00:02:28:03
Unknown
And it was a real fit. And then for many years I worked in elder abuse, neglect and financial exploitation. And sadly, it's quite common and heartbreaking. And the goal for me became how to prevent these situations before they even get to this level where I was working with them. And from that, this concept of Joy span was born.
00:02:28:05 - 00:02:51:25
Unknown
You've built this whole framework around you just said Joy span. What is that? And and where does it fit next to lifespan and health span? So for ever, we've used the term life span, which is the length of our lives. And we are in a place where we're more and more of us are living these 100 year lives.
00:02:51:27 - 00:03:22:26
Unknown
So it's a great start. And then in 1985, in gerontology, we started using the term health span, not just how long you live, but also how long you live in good physical and cognitive health. And that's been a real step forward because we want to maximize our health. The problem was I got to work with people who lived a long time and were in quite good physical and cognitive health, but they were miserable.
00:03:22:28 - 00:03:56:24
Unknown
We had missed a vocabulary for quality of life. And so joy does not mean happy, happy all the time. In fact, the American Psychological Association defines it as well-being and quality of life. So Joy span is the number of years that you enjoy your life. And there's quite a bit of science on how we can maximize the quality of our longevity.
00:03:57:02 - 00:04:22:04
Unknown
Can we talk a little bit about the decline mindset around aging? I think sometimes as we're working with someone or we have a loved one who is aging and they're going through things that feel pretty heavy, it's hard to kind of feel that joy. Can you talk about the decline mindset, where it comes from, and maybe why we should push back a little bit on that?
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Unknown
It's a critical place to start. So the Decline Aging Mindset, which is aptly has an acronym of Dam. So the Dam mindset is the default. And
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Unknown
we have been fed a steady diet of old equals bad. As you get older, everything goes downhill. And the reason for that is incredibly lucrative. So this anti-aging messaging that is everywhere, they make money by pushing like you've everything gets worse and you must do X, Y, and Z because it's all just to save yourself from everything being downhill.
00:05:07:17 - 00:05:13:01
Unknown
The problem with that is the fact that it is not supported in the research,
00:05:13:01 - 00:05:35:08
Unknown
or it's not supported in the thousands of people I've been lucky enough to watch in their journeys. So what I like critically important for those of us lucky enough to work with older adults, is the recognition that, in addition to very real, profound challenges and loss.
00:05:35:09 - 00:06:02:20
Unknown
There are also things that get better as you get older. And when we recognize those and when we use those lives change. So, for example, research shows us that across the board in all cultures, there is a move toward not caring as much what people think about us. And that can be really liberating. Yes, there's research showing that our emotional regulation is better.
00:06:02:20 - 00:06:36:28
Unknown
It's not such highs and such lows. We also know that problem solving can get better as we get older. With the integration of our left and right hemispheres of our brain, coupled with the fact that we have solved thousands of problems. So if people don't realize that they have these greater appreciation of connection and beauty and spirituality, depth and humility which our society meets, if you don't recognize you have all these strengths, you're not going to use them.
00:06:36:29 - 00:07:03:03
Unknown
And then it is becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. When you believe everything is downhill, you start acting differently and then everything is downhill. So that's I'm just shouting it from the mountaintop for people to recognize it simply isn't true that everything declines. Yeah, absolutely. Our mindset is is such an important tool because like you said, it really can change everything.
00:07:03:05 - 00:07:35:00
Unknown
How would someone know if they're operating from a decline mindset without even realizing it? What a good question. Because because of the world that we live in, each one of us is profoundly influenced from this decline aging mindset. Also ageism. And we're all talking about AI. But there is I a which is internalized ageism, and we all have it.
00:07:35:02 - 00:08:06:15
Unknown
So the first step is that people is to listen to yourself and to listen to others. So when you say, oh, I'm having a senior moment, I'm too old for that. Oh, that would be nice, I just can't. We are really changing what our longevity is going to be like by endorsing those things. So in the same way that people used to say, oh, women can't run a company or can't, you know, get an education, we recognize that's silly.
00:08:06:16 - 00:08:29:29
Unknown
Yes they can. Similarly, by rejecting this internalized ageism. So when you hear it in your head, like let's say, for example, you go out to the parking lot, you don't know where your car is for a moment, and then you think, oh, this is it, I'm losing it. Examine that and think, you know, when I parked, I was thinking about something else that also happened in my 20s.
00:08:30:00 - 00:08:55:21
Unknown
That doesn't necessarily mean that it's an aging thing, or certainly not that I'm losing it. So really, really recognize that if you're human, which we all are, we all carry some of this decline aging mindset and this kind of internalized agent ageism. And there's something that we can do about it, which is catching ourselves and replacing that thought with different thought.
00:08:55:22 - 00:09:27:06
Unknown
Yeah, really trying to be mindful about what we're doing and even just our self-talk to ourself of of what, what we're doing, instead of always thinking, oh, this is because I'm aging. Instead, it could be I'm having a busy day. Exactly. And I want people to recognize how powerful this is. So my colleague at Becca Levy at Yale University did very rigorous research on what the decline aging mindset does to us.
00:09:27:06 - 00:09:59:12
Unknown
And when you endorse age beliefs that are everywhere, everything is getting bad. And you live, on average, 7.5 years less than those who endorse a mindset that there is also continued growth. Wow. And so it impacts from a physical level the length of our life, our inflammation. So this is not a little thing. I mean, if this was a pill we would all be clamoring to take it.
00:09:59:12 - 00:10:27:21
Unknown
But it is actually the power of what we expect about older in ourselves, in our loved ones. And that's why it's, you know, it's so critical that we learn as much as we can and work with professionals in this space, because care works so much better when it's a collaborative system of families and professionals. That number is shocking because we're always thinking, how?
00:10:27:23 - 00:10:45:10
Unknown
How can I be healthier? How can I live longer? And now we're saying, okay, yes, of course we want to eat, right? We want to keep moving our body, but we also want to have that really positive outlook and insight. And it doesn't mean it's all day, every day positive, right? We all have bad days, but that makes a difference.
00:10:45:10 - 00:11:10:08
Unknown
And it can make a difference in our longevity. That's huge. And it impacts what you do. Because I have many patients who, you know, are feeling so understandably blue and without energy and without hope and, you know, really swallowing this hole that this is now just normal because I'm in my 80s or something and it impacts your choices, right?
00:11:10:09 - 00:11:37:15
Unknown
So the reason that mindset is so powerful is that you then limit yourself from doing this. You're not doing the social connection. You're not moving your body as much. You're not sleeping as well. So it isn't it isn't just a feel good kind of thing. It is science that will change your life. Let's talk about how someone will actually build Joy span into their life or their parents life.
00:11:37:15 - 00:12:11:20
Unknown
What does that look like? So joy span, the quality of our longevity is made up of thousands of variables, and happily, those things group into four areas. And they are all verbs because they all take proactive work, the four of them. And I love to use kind of an acronym. It's the four things. Start with a G and end with a G, and the middle two letters are K, which works for me because I'm in California.
00:12:11:20 - 00:12:46:08
Unknown
But maybe you could remember that this this gerontologist in California. So it's G, C, a g. And those four words I'll just give them first is grow, connect, adapt and give. And very briefly, growing means that you recognize that lifelong there's a continued self-development. And that humans are intended to continue to learn new things and try new things and become a beginner in things.
00:12:46:08 - 00:13:21:24
Unknown
And I, for example, have the privilege of working with somebody who lives in a skilled nursing facility and her body and her a vision are very impaired in her continued growth is that she proactively decided she was going to be an incredible listener, listened to all these audible books and Ted talks on listening. And now every time I go to see her, there's practically a line at her bed because she knows how to make people see steel, seen and heard and held and understood.
00:13:21:24 - 00:13:55:24
Unknown
And I joined the line because I want to get in on that, too. And as I looked at her, I thought, that is continued self-development in growing, in becoming the very best listener you've ever been. So the choices are endless about things of gardening or bitcoin or mentoring or all these things that older adults have to offer. When we lean in and recognize that growth matters as much as our physical, as working out and eating well and sleeping right, continued growth.
00:13:55:24 - 00:14:29:09
Unknown
And then the second one is connect. And that is the powerful research on what social interaction does. And if we live long enough, we often outlive our friends. So we need to be quite proactive in making new friends. And the way that you do that is by being that friend who picks up the phone, who goes next door and brings lemons from your garden, who remembers it was the five year anniversary of your spouse's death, right?
00:14:29:11 - 00:15:08:09
Unknown
When people come to me and say that they're lonely, it is almost always the case that they're waiting for somebody else to make the plan, make the call to action. And I understand that. But loneliness is as detrimental to our health as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. Wow. So because of that, we need to put the work in, which is sometimes uncomfortable, to put ourselves out there and sort of kiss a lot of frogs in order to make new friends and foster our old friends and deepen the quality of our connection.
00:15:08:09 - 00:15:40:00
Unknown
And we have just two more of the pillars, and the next one is adapt. So there will be hard things as you get older. It's not. Maybe it is. There will be. I haven't ever known anyone who hasn't had challenges. That's part of being human, right? Another word for aging is living. So people who have long Joyce bands are people who have decided to adapt to the situation, even though it's incredibly hard.
00:15:40:01 - 00:16:16:10
Unknown
So the first step in adapting is feeling it. So this toxic positivity thing know you when you're you know you have a diagnosis or lose a loved one. Feel it. Grieve it. Let people know that you're grieving and share it. And as you walk with that grief, recognize that you may have 20 or 30 years left and that there are proven internal and external coping mechanisms that can really impact how you will walk with your challenges.
00:16:16:10 - 00:16:48:15
Unknown
So one word for that is adapt. And the final one is give humans benefit from the ability to give of themselves to others. And a part of that that nobody talks about that's really important is in addition to giving, is to also to be able to receive. So we're all interdependent humans. And sometimes people will say, I just want to stay independent.
00:16:48:17 - 00:17:13:15
Unknown
Well, the goal is actual interdependence because humans, we've always been interdependent. So there may come the time with you or with your aging loved one, that you could use a little help with marketing, or with keeping the house, or even with some of our grooming kinds of things, and the ability to when someone offers to say thank you.
00:17:13:16 - 00:17:42:05
Unknown
And that's what's enabled my 97 year old mom to be in her home now by herself, after my father's passing, is because she pushed herself to say, okay, I will let family and professional caregivers help me because that's not a sign of weakness. It's in fact a sign of strength. It really is. It really, truly is. I know for us at Comfort Care and At Your side, you know, people will say that all the time.
00:17:42:05 - 00:18:05:26
Unknown
I don't want to lose my independence. And for us, we really come from the mindset of having someone come in is allowing you to keep your independence. If you want to stay in this home that maybe you've lived in for 60 plus years, we would love to help make that a reality and allowing yourself to accept help, whether it's friends, family, professional caregivers, that's really a way to stay independent.
00:18:05:27 - 00:18:31:20
Unknown
I mean, it's really a beautiful thing when you have someone that can accept it and really, you know, live that time in their life very beautifully in the way that they want to that's so well articulated and that it is a whole system of family and not just one family member, but trying to bring in different family members and grandchildren and great grandchildren.
00:18:31:20 - 00:19:04:28
Unknown
And then also in a partnership with professional caregivers who are positioned to notice the changes and also notice, gosh, we could use more connection. Gosh, we need to make sure that we're finding areas in which these older adult can give in a way that is meaningful and with purpose, and it is that partnership and spreading around the connection that I see families thrive.
00:19:05:00 - 00:19:36:08
Unknown
How does the framework apply differently depending on where someone is at in the aging process? What we found is that this joy span framework improves lives between the ages of, let's say, 23 and 24, all the way up to 93 and 94. Right. These practices are human practices, right? That every age need to continue to grow, connect, adapt and give.
00:19:36:09 - 00:20:06:26
Unknown
And it becomes more important as we grow older because we often have more challenges. Right? It's not because people will say, I can't. I can't attend to my joy span because I have a new diagnosis of cancer and my daughter is going through a divorce and my husband is living with cognitive impairment. Therefore, I don't have the bandwidth to try to attend to joy or to quality of life.
00:20:06:28 - 00:20:41:20
Unknown
And that is a that is actually a tragedy, because what that leads to is just pure suffering. And I worked in that area for decades where life was suffering for so many people. So it is these small practices in this Joyce band framework that can make tiny, incremental steps toward enabling us to have the internal strength and fortification to continue on in this often hard journey of a long life.
00:20:41:21 - 00:21:14:28
Unknown
Doctor Carey, I know we've talked about that. Not every chapter of aging is easy. How does this framework hold up against the harder parts, like being the caregiver, isolation and loss. This is where the framework becomes the most important, because growing older isn't easy, and caregiving and care, receiving and medical diagnoses and changes in our marital status, often from losing a loved one.
00:21:15:00 - 00:21:47:15
Unknown
It's hard. And that's actually why it's so important that in addition to attending to our physical strength by doing things like cardiovascular health and strength training and flexibility and balance training that we are attending to our internal strength and its little practices, you don't lift one weight and think, oh, now I'm strong. It's a daily. I'm doing little things each day, so it starts small.
00:21:47:15 - 00:22:16:09
Unknown
And for caregivers and for those of us receiving care, it it also starts small with, for example, in the morning when people wake up, it's so easy and so understandable that we sort of list out, oh, this hurts, and I need to go to this doctor. And you know, this is going wrong with my adult son and that now the water heater is not working.
00:22:16:09 - 00:22:55:26
Unknown
And yet the way that our brains work, our reticular activating system, what we call attention to, is what we see more of. So a practice that has been shown and it's free and it seems so simple, you'll think, I can't believe this actually is backed by science. But when we wake up in the morning, whether you're the caregiver or whether you're the the older adult needing care or those of us working in the field or really anyone, when you wake up in the morning to proactively list out ten things that actually are right.
00:22:55:29 - 00:23:26:20
Unknown
So rather than thinking through what is wrong, we're thinking, wow, this doesn't hurt. I'm going to go down and have a cup of coffee. I'm going to pick up the phone and call someone. I look forward to getting out into my garden and looking around a bit, right? Even in our very darkest, most painful, awful times, there are still things that are right, and when we focus on those things, it changes our brain.
00:23:26:21 - 00:23:52:05
Unknown
I mean, how powerful is that? But it does take a decision that we're going to recognize that it is not all decline, and that even when things are profoundly painful and wrong, there is still good that we can attend to and notice and amplify. I really love how you put it. It's these little practices, little things each day.
00:23:52:05 - 00:24:20:02
Unknown
It's not this, you know, necessarily huge to do list of all the things I need to do differently. But just these little things can make such a big difference every single day. If I'm just doing these little things, that's absolutely right. And it's also the little things that have brought us to these places of, you know, buying into the message that we are less than or buying into the message that aging is unattractive or irrelevant.
00:24:20:02 - 00:25:05:29
Unknown
And it's these little steps toward hopelessness that hurts us so much. And so it is also, as you said, little steps toward recognizing that this is a new longevity. We every single day, 12,000 more of us turns 65 in the US. So we've never had a time where so many of us are going to live to 100. We have never had a time where we could step into the power of older and recognize that we're this aging is not going to be the same aging as our parents and grandparents, but that we are going to make this something different as care partners to as I am to my 97 year old mom and as someone
00:25:05:29 - 00:25:34:22
Unknown
who is aging that we are, it's kind of a revolution and that each of us can be a part of that. But it starts with a choice and it starts with little steps saying, I reject that. The mindset that old is bad. I choose to see what is good. I choose to connect with other humans and keep doing things that are challenging to me, and continue to adapt to these things that I didn't ask for.
00:25:34:22 - 00:25:59:17
Unknown
But I'm going to adapt because when we don't adapt, it's just more suffering. And you know, when I was writing the chapter on the research on adapting, I was writing something like, we have things in life that were unexpected. And during that time, our adult daughter was diagnosed with a brain tumor. And I remember thinking, oh, well, not not my child.
00:25:59:17 - 00:26:25:24
Unknown
I mean, yes, I could adapt to things that have to do with me or things that have to do with my 97 year old mother. But my child, and because I work with older people, I was able to when I was just still crying about it. I was with a group of people and they were all 90 and better, and they had such wisdom to say, yes, even things happen with our kids, with our grandkids, with our friends.
00:26:25:24 - 00:26:47:28
Unknown
That doesn't mean that your life is wrong. It means something happened that is heartbreaking and hard. And yet there is still so much hope in how we travel with those things. And in the case it was older adults who helped me so much and our daughter, you know, wasn't able to then go to medical school as she was going to.
00:26:47:29 - 00:27:24:28
Unknown
But over time, she's able to be next to her neurosurgeon, go to a different school, do kinds of testing, and will be a much more empathetic doctor now having also been a patient. Wow. And it's not because everything always works out right. Like it doesn't. I mean, there are really hard things that we're going to travel with. And in addition to those really hard things, there is also a lot of beauty in being a human and knowing that we all have a limited time on earth.
00:27:24:28 - 00:27:58:04
Unknown
And as a gerontologist, I go to more funerals than anyone I know. And when I go and when I listen to what people talk about, people are always talking about these kinds of internal characteristics of giving and connecting and serving and laughing and loving and the partnership that they had with their family members and their professional caregivers. They talk about laughter and love and interdependence, and a lot of these things they're not talking about.
00:27:58:05 - 00:28:28:12
Unknown
Did you have perfect health? Did you have a lot of money? Was the skin on your neck saggy? Right. So the biggies what we're talking about and that is quality of life and dignity and autonomy, and that which we focus on is that which we can continue to improve. What is one habit that supports Joy span that you tell every family to start today?
00:28:28:12 - 00:29:02:11
Unknown
So I would tell every family to recognize that the older adult requires not just safety. I think a lot of times families get very blinders on. That is just safety. Safety. Safety. Safety is a part, yes, but also there is on the other end of this continuum, autonomy of having a say in their lives, quality of life, interdependence.
00:29:02:11 - 00:29:29:17
Unknown
And so if you have somebody in your life who is older and you're concerned about them, the one piece of advice I would give you is to start with listening. Sit down. Have the conversation where you shut your mouth and really ask. Tell me about how life is these days. Tell me about what would make it better. What are you looking forward to?
00:29:29:18 - 00:29:59:14
Unknown
What do you struggle with? What kind of tasks would be things that you might be helpful to take off your plate? Because there we can navigate what things a professional caregiver could add to our kind of plate of of encouraging quality of life and what family members and other family members and then what the older adult love to do them selves and never take away.
00:29:59:15 - 00:30:19:05
Unknown
If somebody like my mom, for example, at 97, she really, actually is great at ironing, enjoys ironing, and when somebody came in and said, oh, you don't have to do that, I'll do that. I'm like, wait, let's ask mom, what do you think about this? And she said, I would love for you to do X, Y, and Z.
00:30:19:05 - 00:30:41:18
Unknown
But, you know, with the irony, actually, I'm actually get some satisfaction out of doing that. I, in contrast, get no satisfaction out of irony. Right. But the ability to, you know, we become more different as we grow older than more the same. Like, if you show me an 18 month old, I'll know right what they're doing. Show me an 81 year old.
00:30:41:20 - 00:31:09:10
Unknown
We're all so different because we become more like ourselves and therefore more different. And that's why starting with listening is the greatest way we can get to increased joy span. And that, of course, ties to a better health span and indeed, lifespan. You've talked about your mother and in the process of her aging, what is surprised you most in her experience of aging?
00:31:09:10 - 00:31:42:17
Unknown
So my mom wasn't her name is Betty. She wasn't always any. You had such a great attitude or anything, and she didn't really care for getting older and would complain about it a lot. But what surprised me the most was her ability to change course. So when she when we started having these conversations and she recognized that in her case, she would very much like to stay in her home, and she recognized that.
00:31:42:17 - 00:32:06:29
Unknown
Wow. By working on these, you know, continuing to grow, connect, adapt and give that that was going to fortify her and then her willingness in the beginning, she said, I don't need any help. I don't want anybody in my home. I, I've got this. But over time watching and I admire her so much of saying, yes, it's a portfolio.
00:32:07:00 - 00:32:33:26
Unknown
We have professional caregivers who come into the home and help with certain things on certain days, and her willingness to gently and incrementally accept this help. And now it's such an important part of her life, and it doesn't mean that we as family members don't have such an important role, because care works so well when it's a collaboration between us as the family and also professional caregivers.
00:32:33:26 - 00:33:08:09
Unknown
So it's surprised me that my mom's aging path has been so different than those who preceded her, and also even the path that she was on, even as like in her 80s compared to how she was at 97. It gives me so much hope. And I share my mom and others in Instagram because we need role models. So I have this Instagram called the Underscore Gerontologist, where I simply share examples so that we can think, what kind of older do I want to be?
00:33:08:10 - 00:33:40:03
Unknown
What is my future self and what legacy like? How will I be remembered and how will I encourage other people what their aging might look like by the example of my life? That's wonderful. Something that that I always really love to see is when we are working with families. And I can tell you, you know, over the past 20 plus years that I've been with Comfort Care, I've worked with so many families where we come in and the loved one who's going to be receiving care is against it.
00:33:40:03 - 00:34:09:18
Unknown
They don't want it. I don't want anyone in the home. I want to live on my own. This is an inconvenience. And it's so funny because we always think, right? We hear the you can't, you know, change someone's mind, right? Who we are as we age. That's just who you are. But I'm telling you, I've seen so many people not be excited or accepting of having professional caregivers come in and then those caregivers over spending time with them, maybe two, three, five years, they become family members.
00:34:09:18 - 00:34:28:28
Unknown
And now this person is such an intricate part of the process, and they're a part of this aging process, and they've made the family's lives better. The the clients lives better. And so, you know, especially for some of our listeners who might be in the process of, you know, we're trying to do this, and mom could really use some help.
00:34:28:28 - 00:34:49:29
Unknown
We want to keep her in her home. Try it. Even if people are, you know, against it, they're not excited. Try it because we can change once we maybe see this isn't as bad as I thought, or wow, this person is actually really great and I love talking to them and I love sharing stories with them. It can really change things and make a difference.
00:34:49:29 - 00:35:25:09
Unknown
So I love that you shared that about your mom and and your experience with that as well. You're exactly right. And coming in and saying to your adult, you know, your mother or your grandmother, you need to do this is never going to work right? In starting with listening and saying, I hear what you're saying, and it sounds like your goal is and then like repeating back what you hear from a place of authenticity, of recognizing that each person knows about their whole life.
00:35:25:09 - 00:35:54:05
Unknown
And sometimes we can erroneously think that we quite, we quote, know better, but we haven't been that age. So I always tell people, don't go in so hot, like, look, this is what we're going to do. You need this. You, you know, it makes people resistant. Instead when you start with listening and then introduced humans, right. So what my mom was reticent to have somebody come in who is a professional caregiver.
00:35:54:08 - 00:36:28:04
Unknown
You say that makes sense. I understand and hear that. I think in order for us to learn more, if this person came over and we would just sort of have a discussion because then humans get together and they recognize are it's not some faceless, nameless quote caregiver. It's a person, and I'm a person. And now, despite my mom being so against it in the beginning, she has these beautiful friendships with its two women who each come twice a week.
00:36:28:04 - 00:37:09:11
Unknown
And it has absolutely changed our moms life and our life as well, because we now we can be back to our role as an adult daughter instead of being the one who is always on the care part of it. So I think respecting the older person enough to really hear their concerns and not discount it too quickly. Ironically, that's what enables somebody to get the most out of having professional care, and it can enable people to stay in their own homes and every single day.
00:37:09:12 - 00:37:31:21
Unknown
My mom is grateful to be in her own home because she knows every inch of it, and she looks out in her garden. And yesterday we were together and she had all these really amazing squirrels, and she had named each one. So she's telling me about the personalities of everyone. And as I looked over at her, I thought, I am.
00:37:31:22 - 00:38:03:27
Unknown
There's many, many different care paths, but in her case, enabling her to maintain being where she wanted to be and walking the journey journey with her as she learned to settle in to both family care, some independence, and some professional. Paid caregiving has been so rewarding, and I'm so grateful to the heroes that are professional caregivers. I am just I just think it's one of the most beautiful professions.
00:38:03:29 - 00:38:23:06
Unknown
Doctor Kerri, thank you so much for your time today and sharing your insights with us. I know you shared your social media and we'll make sure we put that in our show notes. Can you also share where people could find your book? Oh that's nice. Yes. So the book is called Joy Span The Art and Science of Thriving and Life second half.
00:38:23:06 - 00:38:52:17
Unknown
And you could get it from a library. You could get it anywhere. Books are sold to local local bookstores. You could also get it on Amazon. We've also released a large print edition that people are really enjoying. And the workbook, like the exercises are in the book, so you don't need to buy a separate workbook. Some people have made sort of copycat workbooks, but you don't need those because those it's already in the one book that you purchase.
00:38:52:17 - 00:39:16:08
Unknown
And we feel so grateful that it's been published in 22 languages. So happily, Joyce Band is now all over the world because we all share this recognition that it isn't just the length of our lives, it is in fact, the quality of our lives, and that we play the most important role in what those long lives look like.
00:39:16:15 - 00:39:23:22
Unknown
Thank you so much for being with us today. Oh, thank you very much, Tiffany, and thank you for the work that you do.
Unknown
Welcome back to Comfort Connections. I'm your host, Tiffany Robinson. Today we're exploring a shift in how we think about getting older. What if the goal isn't just a longer life, but a good one? My guess doctor Carrie Burney, a gerontologist who spent 18 years teaching geriatric medicine at UC Irvine and co-founded the nation's first elder abuse forensic center.
00:00:28:14 - 00:00:51:06
Unknown
She's the author of the New York Times bestseller Joy span, and she's here to talk about what it actually takes to thrive in life's second half. Doctor Carrie, welcome to the show. I'm delighted to be here. Before we get into Joy span itself, I'd love for listeners to know a bit about how you got here. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
00:00:51:08 - 00:01:22:04
Unknown
Well, I feel like I was born a gerontologist, which is so crazy. My parents had two high schoolers. They were done having children. My mom thought she was in menopause and went to the doctor, who informed her that she was to have another child. That ended up being me. So in her 40s, she had one more and as my sister was learning to drive, I was, you know, learning to use a spoon.
00:01:22:04 - 00:01:57:11
Unknown
So I had an awareness because my father always had gray hair. And when people would say things about older adults as they do, it felt personal. So kind of planted the seed there. Then basically after college, I was lucky enough to learn of a program that was a PhD in the study of aging. And so that was the biology, the psychology, the sociology, the economics, the public policy.
00:01:57:11 - 00:02:28:03
Unknown
And it was a real fit. And then for many years I worked in elder abuse, neglect and financial exploitation. And sadly, it's quite common and heartbreaking. And the goal for me became how to prevent these situations before they even get to this level where I was working with them. And from that, this concept of Joy span was born.
00:02:28:05 - 00:02:51:25
Unknown
You've built this whole framework around you just said Joy span. What is that? And and where does it fit next to lifespan and health span? So for ever, we've used the term life span, which is the length of our lives. And we are in a place where we're more and more of us are living these 100 year lives.
00:02:51:27 - 00:03:22:26
Unknown
So it's a great start. And then in 1985, in gerontology, we started using the term health span, not just how long you live, but also how long you live in good physical and cognitive health. And that's been a real step forward because we want to maximize our health. The problem was I got to work with people who lived a long time and were in quite good physical and cognitive health, but they were miserable.
00:03:22:28 - 00:03:56:24
Unknown
We had missed a vocabulary for quality of life. And so joy does not mean happy, happy all the time. In fact, the American Psychological Association defines it as well-being and quality of life. So Joy span is the number of years that you enjoy your life. And there's quite a bit of science on how we can maximize the quality of our longevity.
00:03:57:02 - 00:04:22:04
Unknown
Can we talk a little bit about the decline mindset around aging? I think sometimes as we're working with someone or we have a loved one who is aging and they're going through things that feel pretty heavy, it's hard to kind of feel that joy. Can you talk about the decline mindset, where it comes from, and maybe why we should push back a little bit on that?
00:04:22:05 - 00:04:35:22
Unknown
It's a critical place to start. So the Decline Aging Mindset, which is aptly has an acronym of Dam. So the Dam mindset is the default. And
00:04:35:22 - 00:05:07:15
Unknown
we have been fed a steady diet of old equals bad. As you get older, everything goes downhill. And the reason for that is incredibly lucrative. So this anti-aging messaging that is everywhere, they make money by pushing like you've everything gets worse and you must do X, Y, and Z because it's all just to save yourself from everything being downhill.
00:05:07:17 - 00:05:13:01
Unknown
The problem with that is the fact that it is not supported in the research,
00:05:13:01 - 00:05:35:08
Unknown
or it's not supported in the thousands of people I've been lucky enough to watch in their journeys. So what I like critically important for those of us lucky enough to work with older adults, is the recognition that, in addition to very real, profound challenges and loss.
00:05:35:09 - 00:06:02:20
Unknown
There are also things that get better as you get older. And when we recognize those and when we use those lives change. So, for example, research shows us that across the board in all cultures, there is a move toward not caring as much what people think about us. And that can be really liberating. Yes, there's research showing that our emotional regulation is better.
00:06:02:20 - 00:06:36:28
Unknown
It's not such highs and such lows. We also know that problem solving can get better as we get older. With the integration of our left and right hemispheres of our brain, coupled with the fact that we have solved thousands of problems. So if people don't realize that they have these greater appreciation of connection and beauty and spirituality, depth and humility which our society meets, if you don't recognize you have all these strengths, you're not going to use them.
00:06:36:29 - 00:07:03:03
Unknown
And then it is becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. When you believe everything is downhill, you start acting differently and then everything is downhill. So that's I'm just shouting it from the mountaintop for people to recognize it simply isn't true that everything declines. Yeah, absolutely. Our mindset is is such an important tool because like you said, it really can change everything.
00:07:03:05 - 00:07:35:00
Unknown
How would someone know if they're operating from a decline mindset without even realizing it? What a good question. Because because of the world that we live in, each one of us is profoundly influenced from this decline aging mindset. Also ageism. And we're all talking about AI. But there is I a which is internalized ageism, and we all have it.
00:07:35:02 - 00:08:06:15
Unknown
So the first step is that people is to listen to yourself and to listen to others. So when you say, oh, I'm having a senior moment, I'm too old for that. Oh, that would be nice, I just can't. We are really changing what our longevity is going to be like by endorsing those things. So in the same way that people used to say, oh, women can't run a company or can't, you know, get an education, we recognize that's silly.
00:08:06:16 - 00:08:29:29
Unknown
Yes they can. Similarly, by rejecting this internalized ageism. So when you hear it in your head, like let's say, for example, you go out to the parking lot, you don't know where your car is for a moment, and then you think, oh, this is it, I'm losing it. Examine that and think, you know, when I parked, I was thinking about something else that also happened in my 20s.
00:08:30:00 - 00:08:55:21
Unknown
That doesn't necessarily mean that it's an aging thing, or certainly not that I'm losing it. So really, really recognize that if you're human, which we all are, we all carry some of this decline aging mindset and this kind of internalized agent ageism. And there's something that we can do about it, which is catching ourselves and replacing that thought with different thought.
00:08:55:22 - 00:09:27:06
Unknown
Yeah, really trying to be mindful about what we're doing and even just our self-talk to ourself of of what, what we're doing, instead of always thinking, oh, this is because I'm aging. Instead, it could be I'm having a busy day. Exactly. And I want people to recognize how powerful this is. So my colleague at Becca Levy at Yale University did very rigorous research on what the decline aging mindset does to us.
00:09:27:06 - 00:09:59:12
Unknown
And when you endorse age beliefs that are everywhere, everything is getting bad. And you live, on average, 7.5 years less than those who endorse a mindset that there is also continued growth. Wow. And so it impacts from a physical level the length of our life, our inflammation. So this is not a little thing. I mean, if this was a pill we would all be clamoring to take it.
00:09:59:12 - 00:10:27:21
Unknown
But it is actually the power of what we expect about older in ourselves, in our loved ones. And that's why it's, you know, it's so critical that we learn as much as we can and work with professionals in this space, because care works so much better when it's a collaborative system of families and professionals. That number is shocking because we're always thinking, how?
00:10:27:23 - 00:10:45:10
Unknown
How can I be healthier? How can I live longer? And now we're saying, okay, yes, of course we want to eat, right? We want to keep moving our body, but we also want to have that really positive outlook and insight. And it doesn't mean it's all day, every day positive, right? We all have bad days, but that makes a difference.
00:10:45:10 - 00:11:10:08
Unknown
And it can make a difference in our longevity. That's huge. And it impacts what you do. Because I have many patients who, you know, are feeling so understandably blue and without energy and without hope and, you know, really swallowing this hole that this is now just normal because I'm in my 80s or something and it impacts your choices, right?
00:11:10:09 - 00:11:37:15
Unknown
So the reason that mindset is so powerful is that you then limit yourself from doing this. You're not doing the social connection. You're not moving your body as much. You're not sleeping as well. So it isn't it isn't just a feel good kind of thing. It is science that will change your life. Let's talk about how someone will actually build Joy span into their life or their parents life.
00:11:37:15 - 00:12:11:20
Unknown
What does that look like? So joy span, the quality of our longevity is made up of thousands of variables, and happily, those things group into four areas. And they are all verbs because they all take proactive work, the four of them. And I love to use kind of an acronym. It's the four things. Start with a G and end with a G, and the middle two letters are K, which works for me because I'm in California.
00:12:11:20 - 00:12:46:08
Unknown
But maybe you could remember that this this gerontologist in California. So it's G, C, a g. And those four words I'll just give them first is grow, connect, adapt and give. And very briefly, growing means that you recognize that lifelong there's a continued self-development. And that humans are intended to continue to learn new things and try new things and become a beginner in things.
00:12:46:08 - 00:13:21:24
Unknown
And I, for example, have the privilege of working with somebody who lives in a skilled nursing facility and her body and her a vision are very impaired in her continued growth is that she proactively decided she was going to be an incredible listener, listened to all these audible books and Ted talks on listening. And now every time I go to see her, there's practically a line at her bed because she knows how to make people see steel, seen and heard and held and understood.
00:13:21:24 - 00:13:55:24
Unknown
And I joined the line because I want to get in on that, too. And as I looked at her, I thought, that is continued self-development in growing, in becoming the very best listener you've ever been. So the choices are endless about things of gardening or bitcoin or mentoring or all these things that older adults have to offer. When we lean in and recognize that growth matters as much as our physical, as working out and eating well and sleeping right, continued growth.
00:13:55:24 - 00:14:29:09
Unknown
And then the second one is connect. And that is the powerful research on what social interaction does. And if we live long enough, we often outlive our friends. So we need to be quite proactive in making new friends. And the way that you do that is by being that friend who picks up the phone, who goes next door and brings lemons from your garden, who remembers it was the five year anniversary of your spouse's death, right?
00:14:29:11 - 00:15:08:09
Unknown
When people come to me and say that they're lonely, it is almost always the case that they're waiting for somebody else to make the plan, make the call to action. And I understand that. But loneliness is as detrimental to our health as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. Wow. So because of that, we need to put the work in, which is sometimes uncomfortable, to put ourselves out there and sort of kiss a lot of frogs in order to make new friends and foster our old friends and deepen the quality of our connection.
00:15:08:09 - 00:15:40:00
Unknown
And we have just two more of the pillars, and the next one is adapt. So there will be hard things as you get older. It's not. Maybe it is. There will be. I haven't ever known anyone who hasn't had challenges. That's part of being human, right? Another word for aging is living. So people who have long Joyce bands are people who have decided to adapt to the situation, even though it's incredibly hard.
00:15:40:01 - 00:16:16:10
Unknown
So the first step in adapting is feeling it. So this toxic positivity thing know you when you're you know you have a diagnosis or lose a loved one. Feel it. Grieve it. Let people know that you're grieving and share it. And as you walk with that grief, recognize that you may have 20 or 30 years left and that there are proven internal and external coping mechanisms that can really impact how you will walk with your challenges.
00:16:16:10 - 00:16:48:15
Unknown
So one word for that is adapt. And the final one is give humans benefit from the ability to give of themselves to others. And a part of that that nobody talks about that's really important is in addition to giving, is to also to be able to receive. So we're all interdependent humans. And sometimes people will say, I just want to stay independent.
00:16:48:17 - 00:17:13:15
Unknown
Well, the goal is actual interdependence because humans, we've always been interdependent. So there may come the time with you or with your aging loved one, that you could use a little help with marketing, or with keeping the house, or even with some of our grooming kinds of things, and the ability to when someone offers to say thank you.
00:17:13:16 - 00:17:42:05
Unknown
And that's what's enabled my 97 year old mom to be in her home now by herself, after my father's passing, is because she pushed herself to say, okay, I will let family and professional caregivers help me because that's not a sign of weakness. It's in fact a sign of strength. It really is. It really, truly is. I know for us at Comfort Care and At Your side, you know, people will say that all the time.
00:17:42:05 - 00:18:05:26
Unknown
I don't want to lose my independence. And for us, we really come from the mindset of having someone come in is allowing you to keep your independence. If you want to stay in this home that maybe you've lived in for 60 plus years, we would love to help make that a reality and allowing yourself to accept help, whether it's friends, family, professional caregivers, that's really a way to stay independent.
00:18:05:27 - 00:18:31:20
Unknown
I mean, it's really a beautiful thing when you have someone that can accept it and really, you know, live that time in their life very beautifully in the way that they want to that's so well articulated and that it is a whole system of family and not just one family member, but trying to bring in different family members and grandchildren and great grandchildren.
00:18:31:20 - 00:19:04:28
Unknown
And then also in a partnership with professional caregivers who are positioned to notice the changes and also notice, gosh, we could use more connection. Gosh, we need to make sure that we're finding areas in which these older adult can give in a way that is meaningful and with purpose, and it is that partnership and spreading around the connection that I see families thrive.
00:19:05:00 - 00:19:36:08
Unknown
How does the framework apply differently depending on where someone is at in the aging process? What we found is that this joy span framework improves lives between the ages of, let's say, 23 and 24, all the way up to 93 and 94. Right. These practices are human practices, right? That every age need to continue to grow, connect, adapt and give.
00:19:36:09 - 00:20:06:26
Unknown
And it becomes more important as we grow older because we often have more challenges. Right? It's not because people will say, I can't. I can't attend to my joy span because I have a new diagnosis of cancer and my daughter is going through a divorce and my husband is living with cognitive impairment. Therefore, I don't have the bandwidth to try to attend to joy or to quality of life.
00:20:06:28 - 00:20:41:20
Unknown
And that is a that is actually a tragedy, because what that leads to is just pure suffering. And I worked in that area for decades where life was suffering for so many people. So it is these small practices in this Joyce band framework that can make tiny, incremental steps toward enabling us to have the internal strength and fortification to continue on in this often hard journey of a long life.
00:20:41:21 - 00:21:14:28
Unknown
Doctor Carey, I know we've talked about that. Not every chapter of aging is easy. How does this framework hold up against the harder parts, like being the caregiver, isolation and loss. This is where the framework becomes the most important, because growing older isn't easy, and caregiving and care, receiving and medical diagnoses and changes in our marital status, often from losing a loved one.
00:21:15:00 - 00:21:47:15
Unknown
It's hard. And that's actually why it's so important that in addition to attending to our physical strength by doing things like cardiovascular health and strength training and flexibility and balance training that we are attending to our internal strength and its little practices, you don't lift one weight and think, oh, now I'm strong. It's a daily. I'm doing little things each day, so it starts small.
00:21:47:15 - 00:22:16:09
Unknown
And for caregivers and for those of us receiving care, it it also starts small with, for example, in the morning when people wake up, it's so easy and so understandable that we sort of list out, oh, this hurts, and I need to go to this doctor. And you know, this is going wrong with my adult son and that now the water heater is not working.
00:22:16:09 - 00:22:55:26
Unknown
And yet the way that our brains work, our reticular activating system, what we call attention to, is what we see more of. So a practice that has been shown and it's free and it seems so simple, you'll think, I can't believe this actually is backed by science. But when we wake up in the morning, whether you're the caregiver or whether you're the the older adult needing care or those of us working in the field or really anyone, when you wake up in the morning to proactively list out ten things that actually are right.
00:22:55:29 - 00:23:26:20
Unknown
So rather than thinking through what is wrong, we're thinking, wow, this doesn't hurt. I'm going to go down and have a cup of coffee. I'm going to pick up the phone and call someone. I look forward to getting out into my garden and looking around a bit, right? Even in our very darkest, most painful, awful times, there are still things that are right, and when we focus on those things, it changes our brain.
00:23:26:21 - 00:23:52:05
Unknown
I mean, how powerful is that? But it does take a decision that we're going to recognize that it is not all decline, and that even when things are profoundly painful and wrong, there is still good that we can attend to and notice and amplify. I really love how you put it. It's these little practices, little things each day.
00:23:52:05 - 00:24:20:02
Unknown
It's not this, you know, necessarily huge to do list of all the things I need to do differently. But just these little things can make such a big difference every single day. If I'm just doing these little things, that's absolutely right. And it's also the little things that have brought us to these places of, you know, buying into the message that we are less than or buying into the message that aging is unattractive or irrelevant.
00:24:20:02 - 00:25:05:29
Unknown
And it's these little steps toward hopelessness that hurts us so much. And so it is also, as you said, little steps toward recognizing that this is a new longevity. We every single day, 12,000 more of us turns 65 in the US. So we've never had a time where so many of us are going to live to 100. We have never had a time where we could step into the power of older and recognize that we're this aging is not going to be the same aging as our parents and grandparents, but that we are going to make this something different as care partners to as I am to my 97 year old mom and as someone
00:25:05:29 - 00:25:34:22
Unknown
who is aging that we are, it's kind of a revolution and that each of us can be a part of that. But it starts with a choice and it starts with little steps saying, I reject that. The mindset that old is bad. I choose to see what is good. I choose to connect with other humans and keep doing things that are challenging to me, and continue to adapt to these things that I didn't ask for.
00:25:34:22 - 00:25:59:17
Unknown
But I'm going to adapt because when we don't adapt, it's just more suffering. And you know, when I was writing the chapter on the research on adapting, I was writing something like, we have things in life that were unexpected. And during that time, our adult daughter was diagnosed with a brain tumor. And I remember thinking, oh, well, not not my child.
00:25:59:17 - 00:26:25:24
Unknown
I mean, yes, I could adapt to things that have to do with me or things that have to do with my 97 year old mother. But my child, and because I work with older people, I was able to when I was just still crying about it. I was with a group of people and they were all 90 and better, and they had such wisdom to say, yes, even things happen with our kids, with our grandkids, with our friends.
00:26:25:24 - 00:26:47:28
Unknown
That doesn't mean that your life is wrong. It means something happened that is heartbreaking and hard. And yet there is still so much hope in how we travel with those things. And in the case it was older adults who helped me so much and our daughter, you know, wasn't able to then go to medical school as she was going to.
00:26:47:29 - 00:27:24:28
Unknown
But over time, she's able to be next to her neurosurgeon, go to a different school, do kinds of testing, and will be a much more empathetic doctor now having also been a patient. Wow. And it's not because everything always works out right. Like it doesn't. I mean, there are really hard things that we're going to travel with. And in addition to those really hard things, there is also a lot of beauty in being a human and knowing that we all have a limited time on earth.
00:27:24:28 - 00:27:58:04
Unknown
And as a gerontologist, I go to more funerals than anyone I know. And when I go and when I listen to what people talk about, people are always talking about these kinds of internal characteristics of giving and connecting and serving and laughing and loving and the partnership that they had with their family members and their professional caregivers. They talk about laughter and love and interdependence, and a lot of these things they're not talking about.
00:27:58:05 - 00:28:28:12
Unknown
Did you have perfect health? Did you have a lot of money? Was the skin on your neck saggy? Right. So the biggies what we're talking about and that is quality of life and dignity and autonomy, and that which we focus on is that which we can continue to improve. What is one habit that supports Joy span that you tell every family to start today?
00:28:28:12 - 00:29:02:11
Unknown
So I would tell every family to recognize that the older adult requires not just safety. I think a lot of times families get very blinders on. That is just safety. Safety. Safety. Safety is a part, yes, but also there is on the other end of this continuum, autonomy of having a say in their lives, quality of life, interdependence.
00:29:02:11 - 00:29:29:17
Unknown
And so if you have somebody in your life who is older and you're concerned about them, the one piece of advice I would give you is to start with listening. Sit down. Have the conversation where you shut your mouth and really ask. Tell me about how life is these days. Tell me about what would make it better. What are you looking forward to?
00:29:29:18 - 00:29:59:14
Unknown
What do you struggle with? What kind of tasks would be things that you might be helpful to take off your plate? Because there we can navigate what things a professional caregiver could add to our kind of plate of of encouraging quality of life and what family members and other family members and then what the older adult love to do them selves and never take away.
00:29:59:15 - 00:30:19:05
Unknown
If somebody like my mom, for example, at 97, she really, actually is great at ironing, enjoys ironing, and when somebody came in and said, oh, you don't have to do that, I'll do that. I'm like, wait, let's ask mom, what do you think about this? And she said, I would love for you to do X, Y, and Z.
00:30:19:05 - 00:30:41:18
Unknown
But, you know, with the irony, actually, I'm actually get some satisfaction out of doing that. I, in contrast, get no satisfaction out of irony. Right. But the ability to, you know, we become more different as we grow older than more the same. Like, if you show me an 18 month old, I'll know right what they're doing. Show me an 81 year old.
00:30:41:20 - 00:31:09:10
Unknown
We're all so different because we become more like ourselves and therefore more different. And that's why starting with listening is the greatest way we can get to increased joy span. And that, of course, ties to a better health span and indeed, lifespan. You've talked about your mother and in the process of her aging, what is surprised you most in her experience of aging?
00:31:09:10 - 00:31:42:17
Unknown
So my mom wasn't her name is Betty. She wasn't always any. You had such a great attitude or anything, and she didn't really care for getting older and would complain about it a lot. But what surprised me the most was her ability to change course. So when she when we started having these conversations and she recognized that in her case, she would very much like to stay in her home, and she recognized that.
00:31:42:17 - 00:32:06:29
Unknown
Wow. By working on these, you know, continuing to grow, connect, adapt and give that that was going to fortify her and then her willingness in the beginning, she said, I don't need any help. I don't want anybody in my home. I, I've got this. But over time watching and I admire her so much of saying, yes, it's a portfolio.
00:32:07:00 - 00:32:33:26
Unknown
We have professional caregivers who come into the home and help with certain things on certain days, and her willingness to gently and incrementally accept this help. And now it's such an important part of her life, and it doesn't mean that we as family members don't have such an important role, because care works so well when it's a collaboration between us as the family and also professional caregivers.
00:32:33:26 - 00:33:08:09
Unknown
So it's surprised me that my mom's aging path has been so different than those who preceded her, and also even the path that she was on, even as like in her 80s compared to how she was at 97. It gives me so much hope. And I share my mom and others in Instagram because we need role models. So I have this Instagram called the Underscore Gerontologist, where I simply share examples so that we can think, what kind of older do I want to be?
00:33:08:10 - 00:33:40:03
Unknown
What is my future self and what legacy like? How will I be remembered and how will I encourage other people what their aging might look like by the example of my life? That's wonderful. Something that that I always really love to see is when we are working with families. And I can tell you, you know, over the past 20 plus years that I've been with Comfort Care, I've worked with so many families where we come in and the loved one who's going to be receiving care is against it.
00:33:40:03 - 00:34:09:18
Unknown
They don't want it. I don't want anyone in the home. I want to live on my own. This is an inconvenience. And it's so funny because we always think, right? We hear the you can't, you know, change someone's mind, right? Who we are as we age. That's just who you are. But I'm telling you, I've seen so many people not be excited or accepting of having professional caregivers come in and then those caregivers over spending time with them, maybe two, three, five years, they become family members.
00:34:09:18 - 00:34:28:28
Unknown
And now this person is such an intricate part of the process, and they're a part of this aging process, and they've made the family's lives better. The the clients lives better. And so, you know, especially for some of our listeners who might be in the process of, you know, we're trying to do this, and mom could really use some help.
00:34:28:28 - 00:34:49:29
Unknown
We want to keep her in her home. Try it. Even if people are, you know, against it, they're not excited. Try it because we can change once we maybe see this isn't as bad as I thought, or wow, this person is actually really great and I love talking to them and I love sharing stories with them. It can really change things and make a difference.
00:34:49:29 - 00:35:25:09
Unknown
So I love that you shared that about your mom and and your experience with that as well. You're exactly right. And coming in and saying to your adult, you know, your mother or your grandmother, you need to do this is never going to work right? In starting with listening and saying, I hear what you're saying, and it sounds like your goal is and then like repeating back what you hear from a place of authenticity, of recognizing that each person knows about their whole life.
00:35:25:09 - 00:35:54:05
Unknown
And sometimes we can erroneously think that we quite, we quote, know better, but we haven't been that age. So I always tell people, don't go in so hot, like, look, this is what we're going to do. You need this. You, you know, it makes people resistant. Instead when you start with listening and then introduced humans, right. So what my mom was reticent to have somebody come in who is a professional caregiver.
00:35:54:08 - 00:36:28:04
Unknown
You say that makes sense. I understand and hear that. I think in order for us to learn more, if this person came over and we would just sort of have a discussion because then humans get together and they recognize are it's not some faceless, nameless quote caregiver. It's a person, and I'm a person. And now, despite my mom being so against it in the beginning, she has these beautiful friendships with its two women who each come twice a week.
00:36:28:04 - 00:37:09:11
Unknown
And it has absolutely changed our moms life and our life as well, because we now we can be back to our role as an adult daughter instead of being the one who is always on the care part of it. So I think respecting the older person enough to really hear their concerns and not discount it too quickly. Ironically, that's what enables somebody to get the most out of having professional care, and it can enable people to stay in their own homes and every single day.
00:37:09:12 - 00:37:31:21
Unknown
My mom is grateful to be in her own home because she knows every inch of it, and she looks out in her garden. And yesterday we were together and she had all these really amazing squirrels, and she had named each one. So she's telling me about the personalities of everyone. And as I looked over at her, I thought, I am.
00:37:31:22 - 00:38:03:27
Unknown
There's many, many different care paths, but in her case, enabling her to maintain being where she wanted to be and walking the journey journey with her as she learned to settle in to both family care, some independence, and some professional. Paid caregiving has been so rewarding, and I'm so grateful to the heroes that are professional caregivers. I am just I just think it's one of the most beautiful professions.
00:38:03:29 - 00:38:23:06
Unknown
Doctor Kerri, thank you so much for your time today and sharing your insights with us. I know you shared your social media and we'll make sure we put that in our show notes. Can you also share where people could find your book? Oh that's nice. Yes. So the book is called Joy Span The Art and Science of Thriving and Life second half.
00:38:23:06 - 00:38:52:17
Unknown
And you could get it from a library. You could get it anywhere. Books are sold to local local bookstores. You could also get it on Amazon. We've also released a large print edition that people are really enjoying. And the workbook, like the exercises are in the book, so you don't need to buy a separate workbook. Some people have made sort of copycat workbooks, but you don't need those because those it's already in the one book that you purchase.
00:38:52:17 - 00:39:16:08
Unknown
And we feel so grateful that it's been published in 22 languages. So happily, Joyce Band is now all over the world because we all share this recognition that it isn't just the length of our lives, it is in fact, the quality of our lives, and that we play the most important role in what those long lives look like.
00:39:16:15 - 00:39:23:22
Unknown
Thank you so much for being with us today. Oh, thank you very much, Tiffany, and thank you for the work that you do.
