Tracy Cox: Hi, and welcome to the Coffee Chat Etc podcast. I'm your host, Tracy Cox, and today I'm absolutely delighted to welcome another inspiring guest. Today I'm chatting with Charlie Clary, a marketing expert whose own journey took her from the corporate world and working with some of the biggest brands to creating a business and a life that worked for her. We talk about finding your voice, shrinking yourself to fit in, leaving the corporate world, starting again. building a business later in life and having the courage to create your own definition of success. We also talk about the incredible things women are doing in their 40s and 50s, the importance of finding your people and why Charlie believes there's a revolution coming. But just a little note before we start, this episode includes discussion around careers, business, confidence and personal experiences and is intended for inspiration and conversation rather than professional advice. And if you enjoy these conversations, I'd love you to join us inside the Coffee Chat acceptor community where we can continue the conversation, connect and support each other. So grab yourself a coffee, get comfy and let's start. I know Charlie, you've come on today to talk about your corporate experience in the world, which I think will resonate with a lot of the women that are listening in to the podcast. And it's just really about your experiences, what you experienced, how you saw it. We've had a little chat already and yeah, it's a very interesting subject to talk about. So I'm really glad that you're on here today to have a chat with us.
Charlie Clarey: Me too, yeah. I'm happy once you get comfortable sharing your story, you suddenly people go, you me too. yes, yeah, and there's so many things that resonate with people. So I think I encourage everyone just to have a think about what you want to share and definitely share your story because we are interested and people are nosy and they want to know about other people, don't I? So it's so it's handy.
Tracy Cox: Definitely, yeah definitely and I'm going to be sharing mine actually next month with somebody so that will be really interesting.
Charlie Clarey: Mm? Good.
Tracy Cox: But yeah so how did your story go then? You joined the corporate world, what kind of timeline was that? What age were you?
Charlie Clarey: God, what age was I? I
Tracy Cox: Ha ha.
Charlie Clarey: it was a good 20 years ago. Let's just do some rounded up maths. yeah, definitely.
Tracy Cox: So.
Charlie Clarey: I was a god, well, at 19 I ran my own pub. So I've always been a worker when doing my thing. I
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: wouldn't advise running your own pub at 19. If you've got kids, don't let people do that. I mean, it just chaos
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: it was. But it was yeah, kind of good introduction into the world of work. Then I went into the cinema industry and ran my own cinema. So I was always like operations and kind of, you know,
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: customer facing. and I did love it. I mean, God, the cinema days were so much fun and I can chase many kids out of Harry Potter films that shouldn't be in there and I can count pick a mix at midnight and, you know, kind of deal with customer problems. And that was amazing. I did that for years. And then I got an opportunity for move from the cinema operations to the cinema head office. So I moved to London. God, yeah, twenty plus years ago. and went
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: from working shifts and, you know, crazy hours to nine to five in an office getting the tube. Wearing a pencil skirt, being really properly, I've got a nine to five
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: job. And that was a shock. That was a real shock after years of
Tracy Cox: I can imagine.
Charlie Clarey: thinking you had, you know, you know, I did a professional job to like, my god, I have to get the junk, I have to do this. It was really good, but I just I loved it. And then I got to do, yeah, cinema promotions from the head office side, knowing that when you send a big delivery from head office, you know, someone in the cinema's probably dealing with flooded toilets and queues and people ringing in sick, and then they get this big hop. box from head office and go, God, what do they want me to do now? So it was interesting to be on both sides actually and try and be a bit more respectful for the blessed the people
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: that are dealing with, you know, God, it's half term now, you know, a mad half term in the cinema
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: is not an easy time. And then I'm saying, Can you put these posters up? And can you do this marketing? And can you it's like So yeah, I loved it. and I did that for years and I did cinema promotions and worked with like Coke and Cadbury's and some of the big browns. So we did corporate promotions with them. I spent a lot of people's money, which was brilliant. Like, you know, there's a lot of money in the corporate
Tracy Cox: Yeah, always good.
Charlie Clarey: world. Yes, which is really nice. And yeah, did that for years and then kind of moved around. I think as we were saying, I did marketing I did marketing before social media existed. So
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: when someone a client said to me the a couple of months ago, I don't know what else to do apart from social media, I was like, there is so much marketing apart from social media. And I've you know started at from a long age as well. So all of that kind of information and all that kind of skills and expertise I took into other kind of industries. So then I went into I think I've said retail, worked in garden centres and a huge garden centers chain. I could tell you all about compost and all about plants and what you should be planting now from a marketing perspective.
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: And then same stuff but different logo and then I moved into digital electronics. So I worked for Samsung for years, which was interesting. Same stuff though, you
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: know, how do you sell a fridge, how do you sell a phone is very similar to how do you market a Lord of the Rings film and how do you market your compost. So same kind
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: of you know, skills and information, but yeah, different kind of products. And did that for years. And as we were saying before, they're very male dominated industries. I didn't realise this till I left, but they've got the pub industry, just men, and you don't get many blonde nineteen year olds in those kind of area meetings, and I was just a bit
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: of the fish out of water and had to adapt, I think, to be a bit more to fit in, so I had to, you know, act like a forty year old middle aged man and, you know, go with all the drinking things
Tracy Cox: Wow.
Charlie Clarey: and do all of the there was lots of I mean lots of socializing, lots of late nights. It was just yeah, now I got back, it was
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: a little bit more toxic than I realised at the time. Cinema industry
Tracy Cox: Hmm
Charlie Clarey: was the same. Lots of men in the that industry, you know, I used to do shoots and promotions and work on film sets and things. And there's a lot of men in that kind of industry as well telling people what to do and a lot of young women who just get told and and you just go along with it, which you think sent to you before,
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: it's just I'm frustrated with myself, I'm furious or some of the things, you know, that you kinda get got swept up with and I'm annoyed with the industry of like that's how they treat people. So that kind of
Tracy Cox: Do you think?
Charlie Clarey: makes you look back.
Tracy Cox: Do you think that you shrunk yourself in order to fit in? Because I think we were talking about the film, Ladies First, and I mentioned this yesterday
Charlie Clarey: Yes.
Tracy Cox: to another guest as well, that that film actually switches and flips the roles
Charlie Clarey: Mm.
Tracy Cox: of men and women. And what happened was that this man shrunk himself, he made himself look more beautiful so that he fitted in,
Charlie Clarey: Yeah.
Tracy Cox: he groveled, he actually then ended up having an affair with the boss, know, sleeping his way to the top, that kind of thing. I was in corporate for a while as well when I was younger and I felt like I shrunk myself and, excuse
Charlie Clarey: Click.
Tracy Cox: me, made myself kind of powerful woman, you know, business suit, dressed up to the nines
Charlie Clarey: Mm.
Tracy Cox: in order to try and get the authority over then. But actually we shouldn't have to, should we?
Charlie Clarey: Yeah. Not at all. No. I know you're right, you really do. It's a weird kind of shrinking yourself but making yourself stand out because I I was
Tracy Cox: Mmm.
Charlie Clarey: often the only woman in a room, whether it was an area meeting or when I moved to the corporate world and, you know, worked in a big office in London. I was one of the only women in the room and it's like, okay, I have to kind of stand out, but I have to keep quiet and I don't say anything. I remember going into meetings and writing my questions down in my notebook, thinking, I'm gonna say this. And then they go around the room and then something else had happened, someone else would talk, and the moment had passed and I'd come up with like lists of questions that I was gonna say and I'd email them back to the team saying, From the meeting, can we and I want to add
Tracy Cox: Okay.
Charlie Clarey: this question. It was just really, yeah, keeping yourself really small and I was afraid to speak in meetings, which is like, I'm invited to the meeting. I should be allowed to speak at the meeting. I think I'd be a very different me I went to those meetings now. I definitely am not
Tracy Cox: I think so.
Charlie Clarey: made for the corporate world now. I've definitely changed from what I do. But it used to be a real kind of way of It's a fitting in, isn't it? It really is just like don't stand out but make sure you're visible but don't be too visible and don't be too loud and don't be too you, I think is what the my
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: corporate experience taught me.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, absolutely. It's crazy, isn't it? Good, so yeah, it's a toxic environment for you. So kind of what made you think of then about
Charlie Clarey: Yes, definitely.
Tracy Cox: moving on from that?
Charlie Clarey: do you know what? If you'd asked me six months before I started my business, I didn't want to start a business. Like I was doing the corporate thing, I was going up the ladder, I was banging my head on the glass ceiling, I had a good job, I had a really good salary, worked for a fourth biggest company in the world, and this was it. I was doing what I'm supposed to do. You you're on the path. And I just got really bored and frustrated and
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: fed up. And I'm not very good at being bored. Like I can't sit on a beach holiday
Tracy Cox: Okay.
Charlie Clarey: for a week and you know, just sit in the sun. I have to be doing something. And I just kind of
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: looked around and went. I am, I'm making generally white middle aged men richer. Yeah. And that just like struck me. I was like, this is not this isn't what I want to do. This isn't my purpose. And you can spin it into, you know, I work for massive companies, we make big marketing campaigns, we do all these great things, and you're like, Yeah, still, but for what purpose? Like you work really hard in the club world and you still get same salary. You know, gen aside from bonuses, you work really hard and you still do the same thing. You work
Tracy Cox: Right, okay. Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: a lot less got I used to sit next to people who did work a lot less and they got the same salary and you're like, so the measurement and the like level of
Tracy Cox: interesting.
Charlie Clarey: internal success is going into, you know, your objectives meeting or your goals or, you know, those kind of meetings that you went into, go, what you wanna do and what you wanna be. And it's like, Well it's their level of success. What should I be next? You should apply for this role or you should go to this. And it was like, God, I'm just bored with this I was like there's gotta be more to it than that. And I'd made companies very rich and you know, that was my purpose. I was good at I did, but It just didn't
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: feel anything for me. It was like is that it? Yeah, I remember doing ads on the X Factor, and that was a big thing. And you know, ringing my mom going, Mom, buy ads on the X Factor. And now it's like billions of people saw those ads. And that's, you know, a real measurement of sex. You go into the office the next day, it's never good enough. We've never hit enough targets. We should have changed that. Like it's never like enough. And it's like, Okay, right? And then you do
Tracy Cox: really? Yeah, we need more.
Charlie Clarey: get swept up into that world of you need more, you need more, because corporations
Tracy Cox: Mm-hmm.
Charlie Clarey: always need more and that's it. Their shareholders want more and if you hit a target it's like well that target was that the two layers or what's the next target it's never like a well done and it's not that you do it for the well done it's just what is the point in this and that's what made me think of like I don't really know what I'm
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: doing. You know that's it this isn't fulfilling me at all.
Tracy Cox: It sounds like you're on a bit of a rollercoaster. you're kind of doing the so so so, we've hit, no, back down we go.
Charlie Clarey: Mm, yeah.
Tracy Cox: And after a while, I think you get desensitized to that. And do you think that's where
Charlie Clarey: Yes, massively.
Tracy Cox: you were at then? You were desensitized to all the hype and the we need more
Charlie Clarey: Yeah.
Tracy Cox: and we should be doing better. And actually, I don't know, to ask this question, do you think menopause or hormones or anything like that kind of had an impact on that? Because I was speaking to someone
Charlie Clarey: Mm, friendly.
Tracy Cox: yesterday and they were saying that when we get to that level, basically lose any F's that we have left and we become stronger and
Charlie Clarey: Yeah, that was true.
Tracy Cox: much more down the line and we're more like actually this isn't for me thank you let's move on whereas before
Charlie Clarey: Mm-hmm.
Tracy Cox: we're there to be the the nurturers the carers looking after people but I think we get to a point where we go enough so do you think that may have
Charlie Clarey: Anyway.
Tracy Cox: played a little part Charlie?
Charlie Clarey: I d I definitely feel like that now. I mean, that I've left the corporate world six years ago, so maybe it was starting stars to come in, but now I'm like, no, I'm
Tracy Cox: Yep, starting.
Charlie Clarey: not, you know, I'm not taking any mess from anyone to try and think of nice words. yeah, you just think I'm not
Tracy Cox: Crap.
Charlie Clarey: like yeah, life's too short. Like I really think
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: that now is like, you know, start your own business, do your thing, do the thing that scares you. Like no one's gonna come along and help you into this. And I think you get a little bit of complacency in the corporate world because you are told what to do. And now it's like I work for myself, this is my whole business. You know, you've got the whole company on this podcast. Like what what can we do? And what can we achieve? And now I've realized, my God, I can do anything. Like that's the most exciting
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: part of life. There's days where you wake up and think, my God, I have to think of everything. And then the other side of you is like, yes, I
Tracy Cox: Yes.
Charlie Clarey: can do anything. Like there's no restrictions. Which I think sometimes
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: for a woman is really It's that's debilitating because there's no restrictions. And it's like, okay, I can do everything, so I will do everything. No. And I speak to a lot of my clients and like the first thing we do is stop doing some of their marketing. Which sounds a bit odd, but most women
Tracy Cox: Okay.
Charlie Clarey: I know are doing everything, every type of marketing,
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: everything. And we're always thinking, it's never enough, it's never enough. I'm not getting results at one, so let's do something else. Let's do more things, let's do more social, let's do more events, let's put on things. It's like, ooh, calm down. Let's try and do a lot less.
Tracy Cox: Calm down. Okay. Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: But the better. And that's quite a shock because most of my clients I'm like, but I know that, you know, the marketing that you love doing is the marketing that'll work. If you're forcing yourself to dance on TikTok and you don't want to dance on TikTok, but you think it's the thing I should be doing, don't do it. But if you love dancing,
Tracy Cox: no! Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: let's get you on the table, let's get you dancing, like whatever it is. But if you think, I
Tracy Cox: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie Clarey: don't love social media or I really like writing long form content, let's get you writing long form content. And we use that in different ways, but I generally say to my clients, tell me what you do, right, let's stop doing a lot of that. 'Cause we haven't got time, definitely. And we won't do it well enough.
Tracy Cox: That's really interesting. Yeah, because I think I'm at that stage as well where I'm just starting a business up and you do, I think you do have to do everything initially because
Charlie Clarey: You do, yes.
Tracy Cox: there's a lot to do there. But I think that the best thing that I'm doing at the moment is that I'm doing it authentically and I
Charlie Clarey: Yes.
Tracy Cox: don't have to dance on the table and I'm not going to dance on the table. You know, and what I love
Charlie Clarey: No, me neither.
Tracy Cox: is literature, it's about connection for me, authenticity and I think you must have an amazing job now if you're working. with women, guiding them actually to their authenticity as well and being an authentic business, which I
Charlie Clarey: Yes. Yeah.
Tracy Cox: feel that we've been lacking in the world with the masculine toxicity. Sorry.
Charlie Clarey: Massively. Yeah. I I think it's interesting. Yeah. It really kind of that's what's been shaping the conversation in the world. And now I get to speak to the most ama like women and businesses I never even knew existed. And I thought I was working in the corporate world and I knew everything. Like you really did think I knew everything. I've worked for you know huge,
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: massive companies and he's like, there's nothing I don't know. Now I work with the most amazing people and you're like, I didn't know that was a thing. Well I I one of my first clients was a forest bathing guide. And my boyfriend's like, A forest bathing guide? How is that a business? He was
Tracy Cox: yeah.
Charlie Clarey: like, That's not real. I said, She's come to me because she needs to expand because her business is so big. She's now teaching other people to forest bathing and she's franchising it. And he was like, That's not a thing. I was like, it really is a thing. Like it's a whole world that's
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: opened up and you're like, These are the women I want people shouting about. This is the women who needs to get a voice into the world. Yes, the corporate world serves a purpose, but this is so interesting. This is what fits women's lives now. So I think you know, like you were saying with menopause and change, the corporate world doesn't fit that. And we, you know, there'sn't
Tracy Cox: No.
Charlie Clarey: much help, you know, help and there's a bit more recognition of how women are, but it doesn't work like that. But I think when you run your own business, yes, you work. This is I mean, this is the hardest job I've ever had, but the best job I've ever had. I've never worked so hard in my life and I thought I did in the corporate world. But you just
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: think I can work for me. Like my mum is really ill at the moment and I get to, you know, spend time with there. I get to take to the hospital. I to do all the things. If I had to ask
Tracy Cox: No.
Charlie Clarey: someone, excuse me, can I take my mom in the hospital on Tuesday between like nine and three? And they go,
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: Yeah, but you'd have to make it up and it there'll be a yes but kind of conversation. And you just can't
Tracy Cox: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no.
Charlie Clarey: it's like, no, this is this fits my life now. And I think, you know, more women are running businesses. I read a start over the weekend, I think it's women between forty-eight and fifty-five. Most are starting their businesses at that age, and you're like, That's
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: I'm totally in that bracket and it's like, okay, but more women are doing that because it fits them. Yeah, and it does, isn't it? And
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: you just think and there's days where I think, gosh, why did I spend so long in the corporate world? But it wouldn't be what I was now, but I just think I wish I'd done this though. It's like sooner But
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: you always I think the universe tells you when you need to do what you need to do, definitely.
Tracy Cox: And that's really interesting, Charlie. By the way, I'm really sorry about that your mum's ill as well, but I'm glad that you're able to support her and
Charlie Clarey: Things we live with.
Tracy Cox: align it with what you're doing as well.
Charlie Clarey: Two hundred.
Tracy Cox: I talk to lot of women as well, or I have spoken to a lot of women on the podcast as well, and the feeling that I'm getting is there's a revolution coming.
Charlie Clarey: There is yes.
Tracy Cox: And I don't know if you feel it as well, but there's definitely a lot of women coming
Charlie Clarey: Brilliant word. Definitely yes.
Tracy Cox: out in their 40s, in their 50s and going, actually, I've had the children, I've had the business, or I've done the work for others now, but now I'm going to do something for myself. But it's almost therapeutic. It's very holistic, like the forest bathing. But I think it's a really powerful thing, especially because a lot of us are doing podcasts, a lot of us are getting out
Charlie Clarey: Yeah.
Tracy Cox: to other women as well. and spreading the message that this is your time now
Charlie Clarey: Definitely.
Tracy Cox: to stand up. And I don't think I've ever seen a revolution like it because I know that, you know,
Charlie Clarey: No, I can't wait.
Tracy Cox: every 30 years ago there was nothing like this.
Charlie Clarey: No. This is interesting, isn't it? I definitely feel there's there's a change coming in. I like I like I said before, I love the change, but it's like encouraging women that we can change and we can be anything. We don't have to stick on that, you know, line. And also that line that even starts early, like you go to school, you go to uni, you do the thing, like there's such a path laid out for us. And it's like, who decided
Tracy Cox: There it is.
Charlie Clarey: that path? And I I don't fit in that path. I've never fit in that path. I've always done something slightly different, and it's like, Hmm, okay,
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: what can we do now? And and I just think Bringing a group of women together, there's nothing stronger and there's nothing they can't do. So I'm so excited for what's coming. I can feel it bubbling, you're right, there's definitely a revolution
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: coming in. It's like it God is needed, isn't it? We were talking before about just the men that run the world. I think there'd be a lot less wars if we
Tracy Cox: Definitely. Yeah, absolutely.
Charlie Clarey: had a lot more women kind of just giving us a voice. Like I love that you do this podcast, and I try and do as many podcasts as I can, because it's like, how do you share your voice? How do I get my story out there? How do I talk to more people? And once you say, like I said before, Once you start talking to people go, I I used to work in corporate, my fancy a bit of change, or my mum's not ill, my mum's ill, you know, you would start sharing your story and people resonate with it. And people go, it's okay to share my story. Because I spoke to a woman a couple of weeks ago who said, I'm not going to share anything personal on the internet. Yeah, I totally get that. But I think
Tracy Cox: Right, yeah.
Charlie Clarey: we need to share some things definitely so that more women feel like they can share. And it's like, I only do this so that someone else can
Tracy Cox: Yeah, absolutely.
Charlie Clarey: go, because she's brave. And it's like, Brave sometimes, terrified a lot of the time. But get up and s share your story. Definitely, yes, there's an element of that. But it's like get up and share your story.
Tracy Cox: Stupid sometimes for me.
Charlie Clarey: Because I think the thing the biggest thing that stops women is guilt and the fear of someone else's thoughts. And you're like, I'm too old to
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: think of those things that are gonna stop me. I don't care what people think. You you worry you're kind of conscious about it, but we we worry about the wrong type of people. Whereas the amount of people I get when you've been on a podcast or I've shared something, then The amount of lovely comments that people get going, thank you for saying that
Tracy Cox: So.
Charlie Clarey: or my god, I never do and we think about the one or two negatives and sometimes it's generally people closer to us. Your friends and family aren't you clients. So if that if you're using
Tracy Cox: Yeah. No.
Charlie Clarey: your social media for business, use it for business and that's it. And don't
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: worry about them. And if they comment, then your auntie Sandra is not who you need to worry about. But if it stops you from commenting, remove her because I think this is a problem. You're with keeping ourselves quiet to please other people. And I am definitely done with that. Not doing that anymore.
Tracy Cox: Sure. Yeah. And that's a really interesting subject as well because I was speaking to somebody about oestrogen levels and somebody in Ireland gestured actually that research is historical facts about women and apparently
Charlie Clarey: Mm-hmm.
Tracy Cox: kind of in the paganistic days we had the young side, we had the mother nurture and then we had the old crone and we were the old crones. This is the old crone. But they didn't live for very long apparently.
Charlie Clarey: Yeah, yeah. This is here from
Tracy Cox: But now we're living for a lot longer and we're getting to the point now where our estrogen is depleting, which is helping us to get stronger and going actually now is our time, this is what we're doing. So
Charlie Clarey: Definitely. Yeah.
Tracy Cox: yeah, it's great and I encourage any woman that's kind of been sitting on the fence for a while now thinking about creating their own business to just do it because it just takes one step, just one step at a time and they'll get to what they want.
Charlie Clarey: Yes. And it and it can be your business. I mean, I remember speaking to my first ever coach saying, Okay, I get it now. I've worked in corporate for years, I've got tons of skills and experience and expertise. I get a bit fed up and then you leave and you go and start your business. She went, No, no, no, not most people don't do that. They get skills and expertise, they work in corporate for years, they feel fed up and they carry on working in corporate till they retire. I was like, that's so sad. I don't want to do that. And she was like,
Tracy Cox: that would kill me.
Charlie Clarey: But it's not for everyone. But I think the people that it is for, like. make it you exactly yours. You don't have to have a billion dollar business. Like I think there's a lot of pressure for women to when they suddenly get into you know entrepreneurship of like, I need to have a team and I need to have a massive business and I need to be successful. If it's just you and your spare room, that's fine. Like you need to measure your own success and not base it on anyone else's because there's there's still that pressure out there for women to just meet certain you know standards and hit certain targets. And I think that becomes really loud when you run your own business. I you know don't know about you
Tracy Cox: Right.
Charlie Clarey: but The amount of advice on the internet for women running businesses is deafening, I think. And you're just like, and you listen to every guru and you sign up to every program and you download everything. I mean, guilty as charged for all of these things.
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: And then you feel a bit more more overwhelmed than clear. Actually, you're like, okay, I need to take all of this advice and I'm not doing it well, so I'm failing at it. It's like, make your business what you need it to be. And I think that's
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: a real kind of advice I'd get to everyone of like you really need to do it, what what shape you need, and whatever it needs to be in your kind of world and whatever fits for you and and be a bit selfish. I'm quite happy with that
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: word. Like be a bit selfish. You need if you've done all these years of looking after people or doing the job or doing the thing, like this is your time for you. So be a bit selfish, I
Tracy Cox: Yeah,
Charlie Clarey: think is my message.
Tracy Cox: no and I agree with that as well. I'd also agree to keeping it simple,
Charlie Clarey: Yes.
Tracy Cox: only because I was in my head for so long about what do I do and I'd go down
Charlie Clarey: Okay.
Tracy Cox: one path and I'd be like no no no I can't do that and then I'd go down another one and I'd be like my gosh. For me, think my advice is just to stand, take stock of what's in your environment right now. What is it you're doing
Charlie Clarey: Yeah.
Tracy Cox: right now and how can you translate that into your own business? So for me, for example, I'd set up a coffee group
Charlie Clarey: Mm-hmm.
Tracy Cox: in a new place where I'd gone to and we were having coffee and that would then change into doing events and charity things. And I was like one day, I think I went to Andorra last year for a couple of weeks and I thought, how am I gonna? Create this business and I thought my god. I've been doing coffee groups for the last four years Why don't I just take it online? And that was the idea, you know, so
Charlie Clarey: Yeah.
Tracy Cox: whatever you've got now Would you advise people to to whatever they've got now in their environment to maybe look at that as a business option?
Charlie Clarey: I would definitely think whatever you like you say, whatever you've got now, whatever you're good at, because it takes a while to remember those skills. Like 20 years in Court Mark and Sundays, where I sit down at my desk and go, I've got nothing to say. I don't know how to market my business. Like it goes out of your brain and you're like, God, and it yeah,
Tracy Cox: I really.
Charlie Clarey: it can be a struggle. So sometimes it's reminding yourself what you're good at, what your skills are, and you know, and that's a real that's a real mindset thing as well, you know. So suddenly you go from I went from A great comp company, you know, had this big logo above my head when people, you know, went into meetings or I went to conferences or I, you know, met people. you work
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: for so-and-so, and and it was that big you take that logo away and you're like, Who am I?
Tracy Cox: Who am I?
Charlie Clarey: and that is quite a mindset shift and quite a realization of like I run my own business. Okay, my business is five minutes old, I don't know what I'm doing. Like that doubt creeps in because you don't have that safety net. So I think get comfortable
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: with your skills, what your expertise are, and then let it develop. I think my biggest advice is also it will evolve. So what you you start with a coffee group, it has evolved
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: into so much more, but you don't you didn't plan that. You didn't sit down and go, okay, in year two I'm
Tracy Cox: No.
Charlie Clarey: going to do this in year three. And I don't believe in five year plans because I think life throws stuff at us when we make plans and then we get disappointed. Like I've had massive change in the last couple of years, and this is not what I planned, but I'm making it work and now
Tracy Cox: Yeah, I understand.
Charlie Clarey: I'm like, okay, that's different. So I think be open to things evolving. And be open to opportunities. Cause like I said, this is a new world I didn't even know existed. And you're just like, I don't know what is next. I don't know who I'm gonna miss and what opportunities I'm gonna get. And yeah, have you know plans of what you wanna do or goals or aspirations, but
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: yeah, be ready for things to change, I think is my biggest advice. I'd be excited about it and open to it. And there's no such thing
Tracy Cox: Good. Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: as a wrong answer or you a failure because nobody you know there's no there's tons of books on you know how to run a business and things like that but no one sits you down and goes this is how you do it you have to just try everything do it messy
Tracy Cox: Absolutely.
Charlie Clarey: do it as quickly as you can do it as fast as you can get out your own head like you say but just try everything and you don't go I failed at that launch or I failed at that program or I failed with that client. I got an answer I didn't expect. Okay what can I learn from that? There's no such thing as failure here. Really is
Tracy Cox: I like that. Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: that that keeps me going some days because you think It's not what I was planning, or this launch didn't go well, or this thing isn't right, and you're like, okay, what did happen? What can I learn from that? I didn't
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: do this, or what what could I have done better, or what could I have done differently? And I think that's a real thing you have to stick in your head because there's because you run your own business, there's no such thing as failure. You just try
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: something new and keep going, I think is the advice. And coffee, that's my other advice. Lots of coffee. Always coffee. Definitely.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, coffee. Yeah, always coffee is always good. So what would you say out of the clients that you're kind of dealing with at the moment? What are their pain points that you would say the main or the most common pain points that women into business have?
Charlie Clarey: Every single woman I'm dealing with has got a to-do list as long as her arm and is doing too much. And you think, and I
Tracy Cox: Okay, right, okay.
Charlie Clarey: think that the shift is, and I said this to someone the other day, and it only kind of went for me, I want to run a business, not manager's to-do list. Like I want that's the difference. And I think for the last
Tracy Cox: Yeah? Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: few years I've you know done a to-do list and ticked off things and things like no, no, what how's the bigger picture? How can I look at this, you know, more objectively, more of a bigger idea, and not like I said. Not from setting big goals, but it's just like it's not about the day to day. It's not about posting on social media, which takes up too much of our life. And I love it. So I mean
Tracy Cox: yes, yeah.
Charlie Clarey: it's the best free advertising we're gonna get. And I don't think it's gonna be free forever. So use it, definitely use it as a platform, but play the game, don't
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: get obsessed with it, you know, but don't let it take up all your whole life, which I know it can do when we flap around with graphics in Canva and we play around with editing and Reels and trending audio and all those
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: things that do take up a lot of time, but I think the big advice I give to my clients is you're not marketeers. I'm a marketeer, but they're not marketeers.
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: They're the forest bathing guides or a woman I met the other day, I wrote down. She used to be a teacher, an English teacher. She now got she inherited a coffee plantation in India and now she ships coffee over from India and is trying to sell it in the UK. And he's just like
Tracy Cox: What?
Charlie Clarey: So maybe is it? Like, yay! And she's like, I don't want to start. She used to be an English teacher. Coffee through her family, yeah, in India. And it's still in India and it's run by priests.
Tracy Cox: She... Right, hold on a second. She inherited a coffee plantain in India. How amazing.
Charlie Clarey: So it's all run and, you know, they do all the growing, they do
Tracy Cox: my goodness.
Charlie Clarey: all the packaging, the priests, and then they ship it over here. And she's had her second second delivery to the UK, which has taken two years to do because of Indian red tape
Tracy Cox: No.
Charlie Clarey: and UK bureaucracy and Deliveries going missing and all of that kind of madness. And now she's like, it's in the UK. How do I market it? And it's like, okay, bless. And she was
Tracy Cox: Yeah, yeah. bless, yeah.
Charlie Clarey: amazing. And so I work with amazing women like that. You're just like, Yeah, she's got well, she's trying
Tracy Cox: Holy coffee, there you go, it's holy coffee.
Charlie Clarey: to link it to churches in this country because of that. And I was Genius, that's a brilliant idea. Get in there. So yeah, I think it's just women who are doing amazing things. And you're just like,
Tracy Cox: Very good, yeah. Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: God, you're not marketeers. She isn't doing, you know, international logistics for coffee.
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: She's not a marketeer. She shouldn't be faffing about, you
Tracy Cox: Night.
Charlie Clarey: know, trended audio and things like that. And that's what I try and remind my clients is you're not trying to look at your phone, you're competing with, you know, Instagram influencers who have got a massive team, a massive budget, and you don't see all those things. So I try and remind my clients, don't try and be a marketeer. Get your marketing working in the background quietly
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: while you go off and do the thing you love. And hers is less coffee. I know as a client actually was slightly different. Was a librarian, went to work as a in an Australian women's prison. teaching kind of literacy and now makes the most beautiful
Tracy Cox: All
Charlie Clarey: hand drawn greeting cards and you're like you need to tell your story like that is amazing. You haven't
Tracy Cox: I will. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlie Clarey: got time for, you know, all this social media that you're trying to do or all this marketing. So that's why I was trying to say pick one or two things that you love doing. I love public speaking and doing it this
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: so I love that. I do some social media and I do kind of try and create content, but I don't try and do tons of things. I don't try and do loads of events. I don't try and Thinking about a podcast. That will come later in the year, I think, my own
Tracy Cox: Yes.
Charlie Clarey: podcast. But when you do one or two things you love, you'll do it better than five or six or ten things you feel that you have to do. And that's always my
Tracy Cox: So.
Charlie Clarey: every client I speak to is just doing too much. And you're like, you don't need to. Really is. So that's break down, do less, any
Tracy Cox: Yeah, break it down. yeah, I think, you think AI has helped or hindered? Because I use a lot of AI for mind. it's
Charlie Clarey: I do. Mm-hmm.
Tracy Cox: just, which do you think?
Charlie Clarey: I'm torn because I love AI. I think we use the tools
Tracy Cox: Okay.
Charlie Clarey: that are available for us. Like I couldn't have had a meeting with you. We're in another country. And like so we're using, you know, technology and tools that really make our job easier.
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: And that's what I believe in. And I think AI is really good at that. I use all sorts of different AI sometimes ever to to days where I'm like, I can't think of a post. I'm trying to say this, you know, and you put it in and you think, and sometimes
Tracy Cox: So yeah.
Charlie Clarey: it spits out and you think so I use it from sometimes for inspiration, but I'm now using it as As my board of directors. So I'm trying to be really clever with instead of going write this content, what people do I need in my team? Before I'm kind of recruiting people, how do what kind of people do I want? Do I need a financial person? Do I need, you know, a content person? Do I need or they can't
Tracy Cox: Sure.
Charlie Clarey: and that's what I'm using AI for. So I think yes, it needs to use it, but I think the issue, and I've read this a lot recently, I just did a LinkedIn post about it, of just like AI seems to be adding to women's to-do list, not taking things away. And it's like
Tracy Cox: Okay.
Charlie Clarey: We're in that still juggle of like women do everything. Women take up the slack, women, you know, do all these extra things. And I think AI is pushing some people over the edge of like, well, I'm not doing enough, but I can make this podcast into a you know blog post and I could do this and AI will help me do these things. Is that hold on before
Tracy Cox: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie Clarey: AI you would have just had a podcast, which is enough. And I think that's the thing it is pushing
Tracy Cox: That's true, yeah.
Charlie Clarey: women to be like, it's never enough. So I think control
Tracy Cox: doing too much.
Charlie Clarey: it and use it wisely, but use it as a tool that helps us. Like we're not We shouldn't be afraid of that. I spoke to so many women who said they feel guilty for using AI. You're like, No men are feeling
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: guilty for using AI, are they? No one's going, I I
Tracy Cox: No.
Charlie Clarey: know a guy who's just made an app and he is brilliant, absolutely brilliant. And he's just excited about it. And I was like, But you didn't code it, you didn't think of the thing, like he didn't do any of the stuff, he just you know put it into this AI, made this amazing app. And he was just excited. Whereas other women are like,
Tracy Cox: wow.
Charlie Clarey: but I need to learn to code first before I can make an app and then I need to do a course on this and then I get No, you don't.
Tracy Cox: Right, okay. No,
Charlie Clarey: And men men aren't looking
Tracy Cox: you don't need to.
Charlie Clarey: at that. So women are being left behind, I think, with some of the AI things because we feel guilty and we feel, you
Tracy Cox: interesting. Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: know, judged and we don't feel like you know and there's a lot of comments, you know, even just on social media, or that's written by AI. If AI helps you write a post, it gets you out into the world, I don't care. But if it's stop if you
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: know you don't use it at all and you don't write any posts, that's worse, isn't it? So use
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: it, you know, get until you feel like you got your kind of rhythm and it'll help you. But I think yeah, it's It's a tricky situation at the moment today and I think there's a lot of conversations out there. I'm all for it, but I don't want it to add to that to do list. That's why I'm trying to use it strategically than instead of
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: give me more things to do. It's like of all the things I'm doing. And I get it to read my diary and my kind of Google Drive and kind of my folders and say, knowing all of this
Tracy Cox: Wow, okay Yeah
Charlie Clarey: and they you know, in the other day it's like I've already got a product that I could repurpose and make it to a new product. And I was looking for something new. And it's like, but we've already
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: done a lot of this work. We need to give ourselves a break. Definitely.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, I mean, I've just been introduced to something on Wix actually, and it's an assistant. So I've got an assistant and all I have
Charlie Clarey: yes, nice.
Tracy Cox: to do is put in, know, send out these letters to these certain people, do it every two days or do it every seven days. And it does it for me. And,
Charlie Clarey: Great.
Tracy Cox: know, I'm not great at organization because I have dyspraxia. So things like that really do help, especially
Charlie Clarey: Some confused it. Yeah.
Tracy Cox: if there's women with dyspraxia or dyslexia, any of that, you
Charlie Clarey: Yeah.
Tracy Cox: can actually still create a business because AI
Charlie Clarey: Massively.
Tracy Cox: can rewrite it for you or you know use it as your own assistant. Absolutely.
Charlie Clarey: Yeah. Well just help you organize your thoughts. You know, if you are, you know, a bit scattered and a bit messy, I definitely can be. And it's like, this is what I'm trying to do with all of these, and here's all the multiple documents I've probably started, and here's all the ideas,
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: and and it's like pull it all into one thing and you've got more than you realise. But I think it's just that it's sometimes just an extra pair of eyes. And like we said, when it's just us running our own business.
Tracy Cox: Definitely.
Charlie Clarey: And we don't have someone to bounce ideas off and we don't have just someone to have this conversation with. And you know, having your own network
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: and amazing groups of women I highly recommend on top of that. But you know, in the middle of the night when you suddenly think, How do I do that? and I can't stop thinking about this and I just need to talk this through, then just do it and then go,
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: please go get some sleep and have a lie down. Like if it helps you do that, then I'm all for it. I think that's a good thing. But yeah, not feeling
Tracy Cox: Definitely.
Charlie Clarey: guilty about using it is definitely coming up in conversations and it's like, that's interesting. Hmm.
Tracy Cox: No, that's really good to know. And I think you just brushed on connection. I think for me, connection is everything. And like yourself,
Charlie Clarey: Yes. Yeah.
Tracy Cox: I'm meeting some amazing women all over the world now that I'm talking
Charlie Clarey: Mm.
Tracy Cox: to that are building their own brands, building their own businesses, having their own podcasts and getting their messages out. And I'm learning all the time, which is really important to me, but also they're learning as well. So it's a great exchange of energy when you're meeting
Charlie Clarey: Yeah.
Tracy Cox: these incredible women. So who'd known that they're underlying?
Charlie Clarey: Yes.
Tracy Cox: I think we're all hiding at the but we're going to just whoosh up.
Charlie Clarey: We really are. There's like a well, we were just talking about this revolution that's coming and I could definitely feel it. But I think as well, like I couldn't stress enough if someone is, you know, watching this and thinking of running their own starting their own business, you've got to find your people and it isn't always your friends and family. They always, you know, think, that's a nice
Tracy Cox: Yes.
Charlie Clarey: idea and and they do the head tilts. How's work? How's business? And you're like, Fine, 'cause
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: I can't talk to you about this and you don't know and we go couldn't have a conversation and I've got some ex corporate friends that you friends that are still in corporate now and they just go, What do you do all day? Talk
Tracy Cox: you
Charlie Clarey: to women on the internet? I was no, that sounds like only fans. I did that's different, but
Tracy Cox: Lovely!
Charlie Clarey: you know, I definitely do that, but they're just like, this is nice. And then we talk about our old job and when I used to be in corporate, to
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: it's finding the right people to have the conversations with that will support you, stretch you. You know, chi want those, that's the biggest thing. I think I know I wish I'd known that sooner. And you kind of join
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: networks and things, but it's like find the people that'll really help you and that you can help as well. I think that's the biggest thing. I love networking, but I think for years and many people say networking's all really hard, you never get any sales from it, and you don't get clients. And I've tried this one, it's not look like it's not about who's in the room. It's not about trying to f you know what if you're gonna buy from you in that second. It's like how can you help them? go in with that kind
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: of thing, how can I help you? And everyone needs marketing advice, so I can happily talk to people all day, but how can I help them? Because then they'll remember, there's the marketing woman. my friend suddenly said I need a marketing person and they weren't in the room. And that's why networking is
Tracy Cox: Absolutely, Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: so important. So I think approach it with the right kind of thoughts. But yeah, find your people and you really need those people as well. I mean multiple WhatsApp groups that I couldn't live without I think. There's days where you're just like
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: I can't do this. And it's like you can do this and This is where you people that are a bit
Tracy Cox: Absolutely.
Charlie Clarey: further on than you don't have to be miles ahead and you know, people who are you know, just started just
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: a mix of women and I think there's nothing a group of women can't solve what we get together.
Tracy Cox: I think, and I agree with that as well, Charlie, I think also we have the empathy to understand that if you're having a bad day with looking after your parent or looking after your kids or something's going on with your marriage, we allow for that and we're very, very flexible,
Charlie Clarey: Get it. Yeah.
Tracy Cox: which you wouldn't get in the corporate world at all. So yeah.
Charlie Clarey: You don't get. No, definitely not. It's the can you make the time up and that's okay. You're like, god, I'm so glad I'm out there. I think I am corporally
Tracy Cox: Absolutely, Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: unemployable at this stage in my life, which I'm quite happy about. So
Tracy Cox: Yeah, I'm actually unemployable. just don't think I could work for anybody just generally. Yeah, I don't want to work for anybody else now, just me. Before
Charlie Clarey: yeah, just generally unemployable. Yeah, I think I'm there actually. Hmm. Yes.
Tracy Cox: we go, Charlie, I was just wondering, do you have any books that you think that any of the listeners could read to help them in their
Charlie Clarey: Mm.
Tracy Cox: kind of move towards having their own business? Is there any inspirational books that you've read?
Charlie Clarey: I think yeah. I big fan of Carrie Green, actually. She's a huge entrepreneur, runs a female entrepreneur association, is
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: like a multimillionaire, but actually is the most down to earth person and gives real honest advice. So I think yeah, find I follow quite a few kind of great kind of inspirational women and you're just like, Okay, what are
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: they doing and what are they kind of talking about and what books have they written? So yeah, her Joe Simpson is really good actually. She's really good with finance. She's an accountant, but she runs a brilliant business and it's I think it
Tracy Cox: Okay, yeah.
Charlie Clarey: definitely from her it's like knowing your numbers. This world is scary and then they add in how to run a business which isn't what you never what you thought it was, and then you have to have the numbers and it's like you have to know your numbers, you have to
Tracy Cox: Mm.
Charlie Clarey: That's the scary side that you think, God, corporation tax and invoicing and dividends and all of
Tracy Cox: So...
Charlie Clarey: these, you know, scary words that you think, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna put hold in that one day, or I've got an accountant, so I don't need to know that. I wanna be in charge of my business. I don't want to be an accountant, like I tell my clients, you don't need to put invoked in, but I wanna know when I talk to my accountant, what are the numbers I need to know, how do I feel comfortable
Tracy Cox: Sure.
Charlie Clarey: with my business. And I think that's really good. And Joe is brilliant for that, Joe Simpson. so yeah, there's
Tracy Cox: Great.
Charlie Clarey: a few there's a definitely a few women just out there. Yeah, try to be inspired but not overwhelmed 'cause I think there's a lot again telling women what
Tracy Cox: So, yeah.
Charlie Clarey: they should be doing. It's like, do do whatever feels right, I think.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, we don't shuddle over people here. It's a bad word.
Charlie Clarey: Yeah.
Tracy Cox: Anyway, Charlie, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show today as a guest. Yeah,
Charlie Clarey: Yeah, I've loved this.
Tracy Cox: I have as well, and it's been very informative. It's been very much fun as well. Yeah,
Charlie Clarey: nice.
Tracy Cox: and very empowering. And I'm glad that you're feeling the same way as me about this kind of surge coming up. And it's definitely coming. Yeah, me too.
Charlie Clarey: That's coming. Definitely. Yes, I'm very here for that. Yes, I want us to get t-shirts and banners and I feel definitely feel there's something in the in the water. Hmm. We could be busy. That
Tracy Cox: Yeah, hey that's a new business. There you go, see we can be business ready with the t-shirts for when it starts.
Charlie Clarey: is a very female thing to go, and and we can do that. It's like, do we need to do another business? How many women do you know run multiple businesses because of an idea they've had? I know quite a few, and you're like,
Tracy Cox: I know.
Charlie Clarey: how do you do that? It's like, so yes. Stick to what you're good at and c calm down
Tracy Cox: crazy yeah
Charlie Clarey: is my general device.
Tracy Cox: brilliant well thanks very much for that Charlie and enjoy the sunshine
Charlie Clarey: I will. It's a bit hot, my hair's got all frizzy. But yes, I will enjoy it while it lasts 'cause it doesn't last in this country, does it? It'll be raining before we know it.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, definitely. Take care.
Charlie Clarey: Thanks, bye.
Tracy Cox: Thank you so much for joining me today. If you've enjoyed this episode, I'd be really grateful if you could subscribe, leave a review, and share it with anyone you think might benefit from this conversation. Every subscription, review, and share helps the podcast reach more people and keeps these important conversations going. And if you're wondering what's next, I'd love to welcome you to the Coffee Chat etc. community where you'll find coaching. Courses, our membership, and a supportive space filled with real conversations, encouragement, and inspiration for your next chapter. You can find everything at coffeechhatra.com. Until next time, take care of yourself, be kind to yourself, and remember, every conversation has the power to create connection. See you soon.
Charlie Clarey: Me too, yeah. I'm happy once you get comfortable sharing your story, you suddenly people go, you me too. yes, yeah, and there's so many things that resonate with people. So I think I encourage everyone just to have a think about what you want to share and definitely share your story because we are interested and people are nosy and they want to know about other people, don't I? So it's so it's handy.
Tracy Cox: Definitely, yeah definitely and I'm going to be sharing mine actually next month with somebody so that will be really interesting.
Charlie Clarey: Mm? Good.
Tracy Cox: But yeah so how did your story go then? You joined the corporate world, what kind of timeline was that? What age were you?
Charlie Clarey: God, what age was I? I
Tracy Cox: Ha ha.
Charlie Clarey: it was a good 20 years ago. Let's just do some rounded up maths. yeah, definitely.
Tracy Cox: So.
Charlie Clarey: I was a god, well, at 19 I ran my own pub. So I've always been a worker when doing my thing. I
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: wouldn't advise running your own pub at 19. If you've got kids, don't let people do that. I mean, it just chaos
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: it was. But it was yeah, kind of good introduction into the world of work. Then I went into the cinema industry and ran my own cinema. So I was always like operations and kind of, you know,
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: customer facing. and I did love it. I mean, God, the cinema days were so much fun and I can chase many kids out of Harry Potter films that shouldn't be in there and I can count pick a mix at midnight and, you know, kind of deal with customer problems. And that was amazing. I did that for years. And then I got an opportunity for move from the cinema operations to the cinema head office. So I moved to London. God, yeah, twenty plus years ago. and went
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: from working shifts and, you know, crazy hours to nine to five in an office getting the tube. Wearing a pencil skirt, being really properly, I've got a nine to five
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: job. And that was a shock. That was a real shock after years of
Tracy Cox: I can imagine.
Charlie Clarey: thinking you had, you know, you know, I did a professional job to like, my god, I have to get the junk, I have to do this. It was really good, but I just I loved it. And then I got to do, yeah, cinema promotions from the head office side, knowing that when you send a big delivery from head office, you know, someone in the cinema's probably dealing with flooded toilets and queues and people ringing in sick, and then they get this big hop. box from head office and go, God, what do they want me to do now? So it was interesting to be on both sides actually and try and be a bit more respectful for the blessed the people
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: that are dealing with, you know, God, it's half term now, you know, a mad half term in the cinema
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: is not an easy time. And then I'm saying, Can you put these posters up? And can you do this marketing? And can you it's like So yeah, I loved it. and I did that for years and I did cinema promotions and worked with like Coke and Cadbury's and some of the big browns. So we did corporate promotions with them. I spent a lot of people's money, which was brilliant. Like, you know, there's a lot of money in the corporate
Tracy Cox: Yeah, always good.
Charlie Clarey: world. Yes, which is really nice. And yeah, did that for years and then kind of moved around. I think as we were saying, I did marketing I did marketing before social media existed. So
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: when someone a client said to me the a couple of months ago, I don't know what else to do apart from social media, I was like, there is so much marketing apart from social media. And I've you know started at from a long age as well. So all of that kind of information and all that kind of skills and expertise I took into other kind of industries. So then I went into I think I've said retail, worked in garden centres and a huge garden centers chain. I could tell you all about compost and all about plants and what you should be planting now from a marketing perspective.
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: And then same stuff but different logo and then I moved into digital electronics. So I worked for Samsung for years, which was interesting. Same stuff though, you
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: know, how do you sell a fridge, how do you sell a phone is very similar to how do you market a Lord of the Rings film and how do you market your compost. So same kind
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: of you know, skills and information, but yeah, different kind of products. And did that for years. And as we were saying before, they're very male dominated industries. I didn't realise this till I left, but they've got the pub industry, just men, and you don't get many blonde nineteen year olds in those kind of area meetings, and I was just a bit
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: of the fish out of water and had to adapt, I think, to be a bit more to fit in, so I had to, you know, act like a forty year old middle aged man and, you know, go with all the drinking things
Tracy Cox: Wow.
Charlie Clarey: and do all of the there was lots of I mean lots of socializing, lots of late nights. It was just yeah, now I got back, it was
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: a little bit more toxic than I realised at the time. Cinema industry
Tracy Cox: Hmm
Charlie Clarey: was the same. Lots of men in the that industry, you know, I used to do shoots and promotions and work on film sets and things. And there's a lot of men in that kind of industry as well telling people what to do and a lot of young women who just get told and and you just go along with it, which you think sent to you before,
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: it's just I'm frustrated with myself, I'm furious or some of the things, you know, that you kinda get got swept up with and I'm annoyed with the industry of like that's how they treat people. So that kind of
Tracy Cox: Do you think?
Charlie Clarey: makes you look back.
Tracy Cox: Do you think that you shrunk yourself in order to fit in? Because I think we were talking about the film, Ladies First, and I mentioned this yesterday
Charlie Clarey: Yes.
Tracy Cox: to another guest as well, that that film actually switches and flips the roles
Charlie Clarey: Mm.
Tracy Cox: of men and women. And what happened was that this man shrunk himself, he made himself look more beautiful so that he fitted in,
Charlie Clarey: Yeah.
Tracy Cox: he groveled, he actually then ended up having an affair with the boss, know, sleeping his way to the top, that kind of thing. I was in corporate for a while as well when I was younger and I felt like I shrunk myself and, excuse
Charlie Clarey: Click.
Tracy Cox: me, made myself kind of powerful woman, you know, business suit, dressed up to the nines
Charlie Clarey: Mm.
Tracy Cox: in order to try and get the authority over then. But actually we shouldn't have to, should we?
Charlie Clarey: Yeah. Not at all. No. I know you're right, you really do. It's a weird kind of shrinking yourself but making yourself stand out because I I was
Tracy Cox: Mmm.
Charlie Clarey: often the only woman in a room, whether it was an area meeting or when I moved to the corporate world and, you know, worked in a big office in London. I was one of the only women in the room and it's like, okay, I have to kind of stand out, but I have to keep quiet and I don't say anything. I remember going into meetings and writing my questions down in my notebook, thinking, I'm gonna say this. And then they go around the room and then something else had happened, someone else would talk, and the moment had passed and I'd come up with like lists of questions that I was gonna say and I'd email them back to the team saying, From the meeting, can we and I want to add
Tracy Cox: Okay.
Charlie Clarey: this question. It was just really, yeah, keeping yourself really small and I was afraid to speak in meetings, which is like, I'm invited to the meeting. I should be allowed to speak at the meeting. I think I'd be a very different me I went to those meetings now. I definitely am not
Tracy Cox: I think so.
Charlie Clarey: made for the corporate world now. I've definitely changed from what I do. But it used to be a real kind of way of It's a fitting in, isn't it? It really is just like don't stand out but make sure you're visible but don't be too visible and don't be too loud and don't be too you, I think is what the my
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: corporate experience taught me.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, absolutely. It's crazy, isn't it? Good, so yeah, it's a toxic environment for you. So kind of what made you think of then about
Charlie Clarey: Yes, definitely.
Tracy Cox: moving on from that?
Charlie Clarey: do you know what? If you'd asked me six months before I started my business, I didn't want to start a business. Like I was doing the corporate thing, I was going up the ladder, I was banging my head on the glass ceiling, I had a good job, I had a really good salary, worked for a fourth biggest company in the world, and this was it. I was doing what I'm supposed to do. You you're on the path. And I just got really bored and frustrated and
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: fed up. And I'm not very good at being bored. Like I can't sit on a beach holiday
Tracy Cox: Okay.
Charlie Clarey: for a week and you know, just sit in the sun. I have to be doing something. And I just kind of
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: looked around and went. I am, I'm making generally white middle aged men richer. Yeah. And that just like struck me. I was like, this is not this isn't what I want to do. This isn't my purpose. And you can spin it into, you know, I work for massive companies, we make big marketing campaigns, we do all these great things, and you're like, Yeah, still, but for what purpose? Like you work really hard in the club world and you still get same salary. You know, gen aside from bonuses, you work really hard and you still do the same thing. You work
Tracy Cox: Right, okay. Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: a lot less got I used to sit next to people who did work a lot less and they got the same salary and you're like, so the measurement and the like level of
Tracy Cox: interesting.
Charlie Clarey: internal success is going into, you know, your objectives meeting or your goals or, you know, those kind of meetings that you went into, go, what you wanna do and what you wanna be. And it's like, Well it's their level of success. What should I be next? You should apply for this role or you should go to this. And it was like, God, I'm just bored with this I was like there's gotta be more to it than that. And I'd made companies very rich and you know, that was my purpose. I was good at I did, but It just didn't
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: feel anything for me. It was like is that it? Yeah, I remember doing ads on the X Factor, and that was a big thing. And you know, ringing my mom going, Mom, buy ads on the X Factor. And now it's like billions of people saw those ads. And that's, you know, a real measurement of sex. You go into the office the next day, it's never good enough. We've never hit enough targets. We should have changed that. Like it's never like enough. And it's like, Okay, right? And then you do
Tracy Cox: really? Yeah, we need more.
Charlie Clarey: get swept up into that world of you need more, you need more, because corporations
Tracy Cox: Mm-hmm.
Charlie Clarey: always need more and that's it. Their shareholders want more and if you hit a target it's like well that target was that the two layers or what's the next target it's never like a well done and it's not that you do it for the well done it's just what is the point in this and that's what made me think of like I don't really know what I'm
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: doing. You know that's it this isn't fulfilling me at all.
Tracy Cox: It sounds like you're on a bit of a rollercoaster. you're kind of doing the so so so, we've hit, no, back down we go.
Charlie Clarey: Mm, yeah.
Tracy Cox: And after a while, I think you get desensitized to that. And do you think that's where
Charlie Clarey: Yes, massively.
Tracy Cox: you were at then? You were desensitized to all the hype and the we need more
Charlie Clarey: Yeah.
Tracy Cox: and we should be doing better. And actually, I don't know, to ask this question, do you think menopause or hormones or anything like that kind of had an impact on that? Because I was speaking to someone
Charlie Clarey: Mm, friendly.
Tracy Cox: yesterday and they were saying that when we get to that level, basically lose any F's that we have left and we become stronger and
Charlie Clarey: Yeah, that was true.
Tracy Cox: much more down the line and we're more like actually this isn't for me thank you let's move on whereas before
Charlie Clarey: Mm-hmm.
Tracy Cox: we're there to be the the nurturers the carers looking after people but I think we get to a point where we go enough so do you think that may have
Charlie Clarey: Anyway.
Tracy Cox: played a little part Charlie?
Charlie Clarey: I d I definitely feel like that now. I mean, that I've left the corporate world six years ago, so maybe it was starting stars to come in, but now I'm like, no, I'm
Tracy Cox: Yep, starting.
Charlie Clarey: not, you know, I'm not taking any mess from anyone to try and think of nice words. yeah, you just think I'm not
Tracy Cox: Crap.
Charlie Clarey: like yeah, life's too short. Like I really think
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: that now is like, you know, start your own business, do your thing, do the thing that scares you. Like no one's gonna come along and help you into this. And I think you get a little bit of complacency in the corporate world because you are told what to do. And now it's like I work for myself, this is my whole business. You know, you've got the whole company on this podcast. Like what what can we do? And what can we achieve? And now I've realized, my God, I can do anything. Like that's the most exciting
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: part of life. There's days where you wake up and think, my God, I have to think of everything. And then the other side of you is like, yes, I
Tracy Cox: Yes.
Charlie Clarey: can do anything. Like there's no restrictions. Which I think sometimes
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: for a woman is really It's that's debilitating because there's no restrictions. And it's like, okay, I can do everything, so I will do everything. No. And I speak to a lot of my clients and like the first thing we do is stop doing some of their marketing. Which sounds a bit odd, but most women
Tracy Cox: Okay.
Charlie Clarey: I know are doing everything, every type of marketing,
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: everything. And we're always thinking, it's never enough, it's never enough. I'm not getting results at one, so let's do something else. Let's do more things, let's do more social, let's do more events, let's put on things. It's like, ooh, calm down. Let's try and do a lot less.
Tracy Cox: Calm down. Okay. Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: But the better. And that's quite a shock because most of my clients I'm like, but I know that, you know, the marketing that you love doing is the marketing that'll work. If you're forcing yourself to dance on TikTok and you don't want to dance on TikTok, but you think it's the thing I should be doing, don't do it. But if you love dancing,
Tracy Cox: no! Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: let's get you on the table, let's get you dancing, like whatever it is. But if you think, I
Tracy Cox: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie Clarey: don't love social media or I really like writing long form content, let's get you writing long form content. And we use that in different ways, but I generally say to my clients, tell me what you do, right, let's stop doing a lot of that. 'Cause we haven't got time, definitely. And we won't do it well enough.
Tracy Cox: That's really interesting. Yeah, because I think I'm at that stage as well where I'm just starting a business up and you do, I think you do have to do everything initially because
Charlie Clarey: You do, yes.
Tracy Cox: there's a lot to do there. But I think that the best thing that I'm doing at the moment is that I'm doing it authentically and I
Charlie Clarey: Yes.
Tracy Cox: don't have to dance on the table and I'm not going to dance on the table. You know, and what I love
Charlie Clarey: No, me neither.
Tracy Cox: is literature, it's about connection for me, authenticity and I think you must have an amazing job now if you're working. with women, guiding them actually to their authenticity as well and being an authentic business, which I
Charlie Clarey: Yes. Yeah.
Tracy Cox: feel that we've been lacking in the world with the masculine toxicity. Sorry.
Charlie Clarey: Massively. Yeah. I I think it's interesting. Yeah. It really kind of that's what's been shaping the conversation in the world. And now I get to speak to the most ama like women and businesses I never even knew existed. And I thought I was working in the corporate world and I knew everything. Like you really did think I knew everything. I've worked for you know huge,
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: massive companies and he's like, there's nothing I don't know. Now I work with the most amazing people and you're like, I didn't know that was a thing. Well I I one of my first clients was a forest bathing guide. And my boyfriend's like, A forest bathing guide? How is that a business? He was
Tracy Cox: yeah.
Charlie Clarey: like, That's not real. I said, She's come to me because she needs to expand because her business is so big. She's now teaching other people to forest bathing and she's franchising it. And he was like, That's not a thing. I was like, it really is a thing. Like it's a whole world that's
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: opened up and you're like, These are the women I want people shouting about. This is the women who needs to get a voice into the world. Yes, the corporate world serves a purpose, but this is so interesting. This is what fits women's lives now. So I think you know, like you were saying with menopause and change, the corporate world doesn't fit that. And we, you know, there'sn't
Tracy Cox: No.
Charlie Clarey: much help, you know, help and there's a bit more recognition of how women are, but it doesn't work like that. But I think when you run your own business, yes, you work. This is I mean, this is the hardest job I've ever had, but the best job I've ever had. I've never worked so hard in my life and I thought I did in the corporate world. But you just
Tracy Cox: Yeah. Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: think I can work for me. Like my mum is really ill at the moment and I get to, you know, spend time with there. I get to take to the hospital. I to do all the things. If I had to ask
Tracy Cox: No.
Charlie Clarey: someone, excuse me, can I take my mom in the hospital on Tuesday between like nine and three? And they go,
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: Yeah, but you'd have to make it up and it there'll be a yes but kind of conversation. And you just can't
Tracy Cox: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no.
Charlie Clarey: it's like, no, this is this fits my life now. And I think, you know, more women are running businesses. I read a start over the weekend, I think it's women between forty-eight and fifty-five. Most are starting their businesses at that age, and you're like, That's
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: I'm totally in that bracket and it's like, okay, but more women are doing that because it fits them. Yeah, and it does, isn't it? And
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: you just think and there's days where I think, gosh, why did I spend so long in the corporate world? But it wouldn't be what I was now, but I just think I wish I'd done this though. It's like sooner But
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: you always I think the universe tells you when you need to do what you need to do, definitely.
Tracy Cox: And that's really interesting, Charlie. By the way, I'm really sorry about that your mum's ill as well, but I'm glad that you're able to support her and
Charlie Clarey: Things we live with.
Tracy Cox: align it with what you're doing as well.
Charlie Clarey: Two hundred.
Tracy Cox: I talk to lot of women as well, or I have spoken to a lot of women on the podcast as well, and the feeling that I'm getting is there's a revolution coming.
Charlie Clarey: There is yes.
Tracy Cox: And I don't know if you feel it as well, but there's definitely a lot of women coming
Charlie Clarey: Brilliant word. Definitely yes.
Tracy Cox: out in their 40s, in their 50s and going, actually, I've had the children, I've had the business, or I've done the work for others now, but now I'm going to do something for myself. But it's almost therapeutic. It's very holistic, like the forest bathing. But I think it's a really powerful thing, especially because a lot of us are doing podcasts, a lot of us are getting out
Charlie Clarey: Yeah.
Tracy Cox: to other women as well. and spreading the message that this is your time now
Charlie Clarey: Definitely.
Tracy Cox: to stand up. And I don't think I've ever seen a revolution like it because I know that, you know,
Charlie Clarey: No, I can't wait.
Tracy Cox: every 30 years ago there was nothing like this.
Charlie Clarey: No. This is interesting, isn't it? I definitely feel there's there's a change coming in. I like I like I said before, I love the change, but it's like encouraging women that we can change and we can be anything. We don't have to stick on that, you know, line. And also that line that even starts early, like you go to school, you go to uni, you do the thing, like there's such a path laid out for us. And it's like, who decided
Tracy Cox: There it is.
Charlie Clarey: that path? And I I don't fit in that path. I've never fit in that path. I've always done something slightly different, and it's like, Hmm, okay,
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: what can we do now? And and I just think Bringing a group of women together, there's nothing stronger and there's nothing they can't do. So I'm so excited for what's coming. I can feel it bubbling, you're right, there's definitely a revolution
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: coming in. It's like it God is needed, isn't it? We were talking before about just the men that run the world. I think there'd be a lot less wars if we
Tracy Cox: Definitely. Yeah, absolutely.
Charlie Clarey: had a lot more women kind of just giving us a voice. Like I love that you do this podcast, and I try and do as many podcasts as I can, because it's like, how do you share your voice? How do I get my story out there? How do I talk to more people? And once you say, like I said before, Once you start talking to people go, I I used to work in corporate, my fancy a bit of change, or my mum's not ill, my mum's ill, you know, you would start sharing your story and people resonate with it. And people go, it's okay to share my story. Because I spoke to a woman a couple of weeks ago who said, I'm not going to share anything personal on the internet. Yeah, I totally get that. But I think
Tracy Cox: Right, yeah.
Charlie Clarey: we need to share some things definitely so that more women feel like they can share. And it's like, I only do this so that someone else can
Tracy Cox: Yeah, absolutely.
Charlie Clarey: go, because she's brave. And it's like, Brave sometimes, terrified a lot of the time. But get up and s share your story. Definitely, yes, there's an element of that. But it's like get up and share your story.
Tracy Cox: Stupid sometimes for me.
Charlie Clarey: Because I think the thing the biggest thing that stops women is guilt and the fear of someone else's thoughts. And you're like, I'm too old to
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: think of those things that are gonna stop me. I don't care what people think. You you worry you're kind of conscious about it, but we we worry about the wrong type of people. Whereas the amount of people I get when you've been on a podcast or I've shared something, then The amount of lovely comments that people get going, thank you for saying that
Tracy Cox: So.
Charlie Clarey: or my god, I never do and we think about the one or two negatives and sometimes it's generally people closer to us. Your friends and family aren't you clients. So if that if you're using
Tracy Cox: Yeah. No.
Charlie Clarey: your social media for business, use it for business and that's it. And don't
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: worry about them. And if they comment, then your auntie Sandra is not who you need to worry about. But if it stops you from commenting, remove her because I think this is a problem. You're with keeping ourselves quiet to please other people. And I am definitely done with that. Not doing that anymore.
Tracy Cox: Sure. Yeah. And that's a really interesting subject as well because I was speaking to somebody about oestrogen levels and somebody in Ireland gestured actually that research is historical facts about women and apparently
Charlie Clarey: Mm-hmm.
Tracy Cox: kind of in the paganistic days we had the young side, we had the mother nurture and then we had the old crone and we were the old crones. This is the old crone. But they didn't live for very long apparently.
Charlie Clarey: Yeah, yeah. This is here from
Tracy Cox: But now we're living for a lot longer and we're getting to the point now where our estrogen is depleting, which is helping us to get stronger and going actually now is our time, this is what we're doing. So
Charlie Clarey: Definitely. Yeah.
Tracy Cox: yeah, it's great and I encourage any woman that's kind of been sitting on the fence for a while now thinking about creating their own business to just do it because it just takes one step, just one step at a time and they'll get to what they want.
Charlie Clarey: Yes. And it and it can be your business. I mean, I remember speaking to my first ever coach saying, Okay, I get it now. I've worked in corporate for years, I've got tons of skills and experience and expertise. I get a bit fed up and then you leave and you go and start your business. She went, No, no, no, not most people don't do that. They get skills and expertise, they work in corporate for years, they feel fed up and they carry on working in corporate till they retire. I was like, that's so sad. I don't want to do that. And she was like,
Tracy Cox: that would kill me.
Charlie Clarey: But it's not for everyone. But I think the people that it is for, like. make it you exactly yours. You don't have to have a billion dollar business. Like I think there's a lot of pressure for women to when they suddenly get into you know entrepreneurship of like, I need to have a team and I need to have a massive business and I need to be successful. If it's just you and your spare room, that's fine. Like you need to measure your own success and not base it on anyone else's because there's there's still that pressure out there for women to just meet certain you know standards and hit certain targets. And I think that becomes really loud when you run your own business. I you know don't know about you
Tracy Cox: Right.
Charlie Clarey: but The amount of advice on the internet for women running businesses is deafening, I think. And you're just like, and you listen to every guru and you sign up to every program and you download everything. I mean, guilty as charged for all of these things.
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: And then you feel a bit more more overwhelmed than clear. Actually, you're like, okay, I need to take all of this advice and I'm not doing it well, so I'm failing at it. It's like, make your business what you need it to be. And I think that's
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: a real kind of advice I'd get to everyone of like you really need to do it, what what shape you need, and whatever it needs to be in your kind of world and whatever fits for you and and be a bit selfish. I'm quite happy with that
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: word. Like be a bit selfish. You need if you've done all these years of looking after people or doing the job or doing the thing, like this is your time for you. So be a bit selfish, I
Tracy Cox: Yeah,
Charlie Clarey: think is my message.
Tracy Cox: no and I agree with that as well. I'd also agree to keeping it simple,
Charlie Clarey: Yes.
Tracy Cox: only because I was in my head for so long about what do I do and I'd go down
Charlie Clarey: Okay.
Tracy Cox: one path and I'd be like no no no I can't do that and then I'd go down another one and I'd be like my gosh. For me, think my advice is just to stand, take stock of what's in your environment right now. What is it you're doing
Charlie Clarey: Yeah.
Tracy Cox: right now and how can you translate that into your own business? So for me, for example, I'd set up a coffee group
Charlie Clarey: Mm-hmm.
Tracy Cox: in a new place where I'd gone to and we were having coffee and that would then change into doing events and charity things. And I was like one day, I think I went to Andorra last year for a couple of weeks and I thought, how am I gonna? Create this business and I thought my god. I've been doing coffee groups for the last four years Why don't I just take it online? And that was the idea, you know, so
Charlie Clarey: Yeah.
Tracy Cox: whatever you've got now Would you advise people to to whatever they've got now in their environment to maybe look at that as a business option?
Charlie Clarey: I would definitely think whatever you like you say, whatever you've got now, whatever you're good at, because it takes a while to remember those skills. Like 20 years in Court Mark and Sundays, where I sit down at my desk and go, I've got nothing to say. I don't know how to market my business. Like it goes out of your brain and you're like, God, and it yeah,
Tracy Cox: I really.
Charlie Clarey: it can be a struggle. So sometimes it's reminding yourself what you're good at, what your skills are, and you know, and that's a real that's a real mindset thing as well, you know. So suddenly you go from I went from A great comp company, you know, had this big logo above my head when people, you know, went into meetings or I went to conferences or I, you know, met people. you work
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: for so-and-so, and and it was that big you take that logo away and you're like, Who am I?
Tracy Cox: Who am I?
Charlie Clarey: and that is quite a mindset shift and quite a realization of like I run my own business. Okay, my business is five minutes old, I don't know what I'm doing. Like that doubt creeps in because you don't have that safety net. So I think get comfortable
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: with your skills, what your expertise are, and then let it develop. I think my biggest advice is also it will evolve. So what you you start with a coffee group, it has evolved
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: into so much more, but you don't you didn't plan that. You didn't sit down and go, okay, in year two I'm
Tracy Cox: No.
Charlie Clarey: going to do this in year three. And I don't believe in five year plans because I think life throws stuff at us when we make plans and then we get disappointed. Like I've had massive change in the last couple of years, and this is not what I planned, but I'm making it work and now
Tracy Cox: Yeah, I understand.
Charlie Clarey: I'm like, okay, that's different. So I think be open to things evolving. And be open to opportunities. Cause like I said, this is a new world I didn't even know existed. And you're just like, I don't know what is next. I don't know who I'm gonna miss and what opportunities I'm gonna get. And yeah, have you know plans of what you wanna do or goals or aspirations, but
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: yeah, be ready for things to change, I think is my biggest advice. I'd be excited about it and open to it. And there's no such thing
Tracy Cox: Good. Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: as a wrong answer or you a failure because nobody you know there's no there's tons of books on you know how to run a business and things like that but no one sits you down and goes this is how you do it you have to just try everything do it messy
Tracy Cox: Absolutely.
Charlie Clarey: do it as quickly as you can do it as fast as you can get out your own head like you say but just try everything and you don't go I failed at that launch or I failed at that program or I failed with that client. I got an answer I didn't expect. Okay what can I learn from that? There's no such thing as failure here. Really is
Tracy Cox: I like that. Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: that that keeps me going some days because you think It's not what I was planning, or this launch didn't go well, or this thing isn't right, and you're like, okay, what did happen? What can I learn from that? I didn't
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: do this, or what what could I have done better, or what could I have done differently? And I think that's a real thing you have to stick in your head because there's because you run your own business, there's no such thing as failure. You just try
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: something new and keep going, I think is the advice. And coffee, that's my other advice. Lots of coffee. Always coffee. Definitely.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, coffee. Yeah, always coffee is always good. So what would you say out of the clients that you're kind of dealing with at the moment? What are their pain points that you would say the main or the most common pain points that women into business have?
Charlie Clarey: Every single woman I'm dealing with has got a to-do list as long as her arm and is doing too much. And you think, and I
Tracy Cox: Okay, right, okay.
Charlie Clarey: think that the shift is, and I said this to someone the other day, and it only kind of went for me, I want to run a business, not manager's to-do list. Like I want that's the difference. And I think for the last
Tracy Cox: Yeah? Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: few years I've you know done a to-do list and ticked off things and things like no, no, what how's the bigger picture? How can I look at this, you know, more objectively, more of a bigger idea, and not like I said. Not from setting big goals, but it's just like it's not about the day to day. It's not about posting on social media, which takes up too much of our life. And I love it. So I mean
Tracy Cox: yes, yeah.
Charlie Clarey: it's the best free advertising we're gonna get. And I don't think it's gonna be free forever. So use it, definitely use it as a platform, but play the game, don't
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: get obsessed with it, you know, but don't let it take up all your whole life, which I know it can do when we flap around with graphics in Canva and we play around with editing and Reels and trending audio and all those
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: things that do take up a lot of time, but I think the big advice I give to my clients is you're not marketeers. I'm a marketeer, but they're not marketeers.
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: They're the forest bathing guides or a woman I met the other day, I wrote down. She used to be a teacher, an English teacher. She now got she inherited a coffee plantation in India and now she ships coffee over from India and is trying to sell it in the UK. And he's just like
Tracy Cox: What?
Charlie Clarey: So maybe is it? Like, yay! And she's like, I don't want to start. She used to be an English teacher. Coffee through her family, yeah, in India. And it's still in India and it's run by priests.
Tracy Cox: She... Right, hold on a second. She inherited a coffee plantain in India. How amazing.
Charlie Clarey: So it's all run and, you know, they do all the growing, they do
Tracy Cox: my goodness.
Charlie Clarey: all the packaging, the priests, and then they ship it over here. And she's had her second second delivery to the UK, which has taken two years to do because of Indian red tape
Tracy Cox: No.
Charlie Clarey: and UK bureaucracy and Deliveries going missing and all of that kind of madness. And now she's like, it's in the UK. How do I market it? And it's like, okay, bless. And she was
Tracy Cox: Yeah, yeah. bless, yeah.
Charlie Clarey: amazing. And so I work with amazing women like that. You're just like, Yeah, she's got well, she's trying
Tracy Cox: Holy coffee, there you go, it's holy coffee.
Charlie Clarey: to link it to churches in this country because of that. And I was Genius, that's a brilliant idea. Get in there. So yeah, I think it's just women who are doing amazing things. And you're just like,
Tracy Cox: Very good, yeah. Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: God, you're not marketeers. She isn't doing, you know, international logistics for coffee.
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: She's not a marketeer. She shouldn't be faffing about, you
Tracy Cox: Night.
Charlie Clarey: know, trended audio and things like that. And that's what I try and remind my clients is you're not trying to look at your phone, you're competing with, you know, Instagram influencers who have got a massive team, a massive budget, and you don't see all those things. So I try and remind my clients, don't try and be a marketeer. Get your marketing working in the background quietly
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: while you go off and do the thing you love. And hers is less coffee. I know as a client actually was slightly different. Was a librarian, went to work as a in an Australian women's prison. teaching kind of literacy and now makes the most beautiful
Tracy Cox: All
Charlie Clarey: hand drawn greeting cards and you're like you need to tell your story like that is amazing. You haven't
Tracy Cox: I will. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlie Clarey: got time for, you know, all this social media that you're trying to do or all this marketing. So that's why I was trying to say pick one or two things that you love doing. I love public speaking and doing it this
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: so I love that. I do some social media and I do kind of try and create content, but I don't try and do tons of things. I don't try and do loads of events. I don't try and Thinking about a podcast. That will come later in the year, I think, my own
Tracy Cox: Yes.
Charlie Clarey: podcast. But when you do one or two things you love, you'll do it better than five or six or ten things you feel that you have to do. And that's always my
Tracy Cox: So.
Charlie Clarey: every client I speak to is just doing too much. And you're like, you don't need to. Really is. So that's break down, do less, any
Tracy Cox: Yeah, break it down. yeah, I think, you think AI has helped or hindered? Because I use a lot of AI for mind. it's
Charlie Clarey: I do. Mm-hmm.
Tracy Cox: just, which do you think?
Charlie Clarey: I'm torn because I love AI. I think we use the tools
Tracy Cox: Okay.
Charlie Clarey: that are available for us. Like I couldn't have had a meeting with you. We're in another country. And like so we're using, you know, technology and tools that really make our job easier.
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: And that's what I believe in. And I think AI is really good at that. I use all sorts of different AI sometimes ever to to days where I'm like, I can't think of a post. I'm trying to say this, you know, and you put it in and you think, and sometimes
Tracy Cox: So yeah.
Charlie Clarey: it spits out and you think so I use it from sometimes for inspiration, but I'm now using it as As my board of directors. So I'm trying to be really clever with instead of going write this content, what people do I need in my team? Before I'm kind of recruiting people, how do what kind of people do I want? Do I need a financial person? Do I need, you know, a content person? Do I need or they can't
Tracy Cox: Sure.
Charlie Clarey: and that's what I'm using AI for. So I think yes, it needs to use it, but I think the issue, and I've read this a lot recently, I just did a LinkedIn post about it, of just like AI seems to be adding to women's to-do list, not taking things away. And it's like
Tracy Cox: Okay.
Charlie Clarey: We're in that still juggle of like women do everything. Women take up the slack, women, you know, do all these extra things. And I think AI is pushing some people over the edge of like, well, I'm not doing enough, but I can make this podcast into a you know blog post and I could do this and AI will help me do these things. Is that hold on before
Tracy Cox: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie Clarey: AI you would have just had a podcast, which is enough. And I think that's the thing it is pushing
Tracy Cox: That's true, yeah.
Charlie Clarey: women to be like, it's never enough. So I think control
Tracy Cox: doing too much.
Charlie Clarey: it and use it wisely, but use it as a tool that helps us. Like we're not We shouldn't be afraid of that. I spoke to so many women who said they feel guilty for using AI. You're like, No men are feeling
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: guilty for using AI, are they? No one's going, I I
Tracy Cox: No.
Charlie Clarey: know a guy who's just made an app and he is brilliant, absolutely brilliant. And he's just excited about it. And I was like, But you didn't code it, you didn't think of the thing, like he didn't do any of the stuff, he just you know put it into this AI, made this amazing app. And he was just excited. Whereas other women are like,
Tracy Cox: wow.
Charlie Clarey: but I need to learn to code first before I can make an app and then I need to do a course on this and then I get No, you don't.
Tracy Cox: Right, okay. No,
Charlie Clarey: And men men aren't looking
Tracy Cox: you don't need to.
Charlie Clarey: at that. So women are being left behind, I think, with some of the AI things because we feel guilty and we feel, you
Tracy Cox: interesting. Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: know, judged and we don't feel like you know and there's a lot of comments, you know, even just on social media, or that's written by AI. If AI helps you write a post, it gets you out into the world, I don't care. But if it's stop if you
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: know you don't use it at all and you don't write any posts, that's worse, isn't it? So use
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: it, you know, get until you feel like you got your kind of rhythm and it'll help you. But I think yeah, it's It's a tricky situation at the moment today and I think there's a lot of conversations out there. I'm all for it, but I don't want it to add to that to do list. That's why I'm trying to use it strategically than instead of
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: give me more things to do. It's like of all the things I'm doing. And I get it to read my diary and my kind of Google Drive and kind of my folders and say, knowing all of this
Tracy Cox: Wow, okay Yeah
Charlie Clarey: and they you know, in the other day it's like I've already got a product that I could repurpose and make it to a new product. And I was looking for something new. And it's like, but we've already
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: done a lot of this work. We need to give ourselves a break. Definitely.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, I mean, I've just been introduced to something on Wix actually, and it's an assistant. So I've got an assistant and all I have
Charlie Clarey: yes, nice.
Tracy Cox: to do is put in, know, send out these letters to these certain people, do it every two days or do it every seven days. And it does it for me. And,
Charlie Clarey: Great.
Tracy Cox: know, I'm not great at organization because I have dyspraxia. So things like that really do help, especially
Charlie Clarey: Some confused it. Yeah.
Tracy Cox: if there's women with dyspraxia or dyslexia, any of that, you
Charlie Clarey: Yeah.
Tracy Cox: can actually still create a business because AI
Charlie Clarey: Massively.
Tracy Cox: can rewrite it for you or you know use it as your own assistant. Absolutely.
Charlie Clarey: Yeah. Well just help you organize your thoughts. You know, if you are, you know, a bit scattered and a bit messy, I definitely can be. And it's like, this is what I'm trying to do with all of these, and here's all the multiple documents I've probably started, and here's all the ideas,
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: and and it's like pull it all into one thing and you've got more than you realise. But I think it's just that it's sometimes just an extra pair of eyes. And like we said, when it's just us running our own business.
Tracy Cox: Definitely.
Charlie Clarey: And we don't have someone to bounce ideas off and we don't have just someone to have this conversation with. And you know, having your own network
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: and amazing groups of women I highly recommend on top of that. But you know, in the middle of the night when you suddenly think, How do I do that? and I can't stop thinking about this and I just need to talk this through, then just do it and then go,
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: please go get some sleep and have a lie down. Like if it helps you do that, then I'm all for it. I think that's a good thing. But yeah, not feeling
Tracy Cox: Definitely.
Charlie Clarey: guilty about using it is definitely coming up in conversations and it's like, that's interesting. Hmm.
Tracy Cox: No, that's really good to know. And I think you just brushed on connection. I think for me, connection is everything. And like yourself,
Charlie Clarey: Yes. Yeah.
Tracy Cox: I'm meeting some amazing women all over the world now that I'm talking
Charlie Clarey: Mm.
Tracy Cox: to that are building their own brands, building their own businesses, having their own podcasts and getting their messages out. And I'm learning all the time, which is really important to me, but also they're learning as well. So it's a great exchange of energy when you're meeting
Charlie Clarey: Yeah.
Tracy Cox: these incredible women. So who'd known that they're underlying?
Charlie Clarey: Yes.
Tracy Cox: I think we're all hiding at the but we're going to just whoosh up.
Charlie Clarey: We really are. There's like a well, we were just talking about this revolution that's coming and I could definitely feel it. But I think as well, like I couldn't stress enough if someone is, you know, watching this and thinking of running their own starting their own business, you've got to find your people and it isn't always your friends and family. They always, you know, think, that's a nice
Tracy Cox: Yes.
Charlie Clarey: idea and and they do the head tilts. How's work? How's business? And you're like, Fine, 'cause
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: I can't talk to you about this and you don't know and we go couldn't have a conversation and I've got some ex corporate friends that you friends that are still in corporate now and they just go, What do you do all day? Talk
Tracy Cox: you
Charlie Clarey: to women on the internet? I was no, that sounds like only fans. I did that's different, but
Tracy Cox: Lovely!
Charlie Clarey: you know, I definitely do that, but they're just like, this is nice. And then we talk about our old job and when I used to be in corporate, to
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: it's finding the right people to have the conversations with that will support you, stretch you. You know, chi want those, that's the biggest thing. I think I know I wish I'd known that sooner. And you kind of join
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: networks and things, but it's like find the people that'll really help you and that you can help as well. I think that's the biggest thing. I love networking, but I think for years and many people say networking's all really hard, you never get any sales from it, and you don't get clients. And I've tried this one, it's not look like it's not about who's in the room. It's not about trying to f you know what if you're gonna buy from you in that second. It's like how can you help them? go in with that kind
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: of thing, how can I help you? And everyone needs marketing advice, so I can happily talk to people all day, but how can I help them? Because then they'll remember, there's the marketing woman. my friend suddenly said I need a marketing person and they weren't in the room. And that's why networking is
Tracy Cox: Absolutely, Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: so important. So I think approach it with the right kind of thoughts. But yeah, find your people and you really need those people as well. I mean multiple WhatsApp groups that I couldn't live without I think. There's days where you're just like
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: I can't do this. And it's like you can do this and This is where you people that are a bit
Tracy Cox: Absolutely.
Charlie Clarey: further on than you don't have to be miles ahead and you know, people who are you know, just started just
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: a mix of women and I think there's nothing a group of women can't solve what we get together.
Tracy Cox: I think, and I agree with that as well, Charlie, I think also we have the empathy to understand that if you're having a bad day with looking after your parent or looking after your kids or something's going on with your marriage, we allow for that and we're very, very flexible,
Charlie Clarey: Get it. Yeah.
Tracy Cox: which you wouldn't get in the corporate world at all. So yeah.
Charlie Clarey: You don't get. No, definitely not. It's the can you make the time up and that's okay. You're like, god, I'm so glad I'm out there. I think I am corporally
Tracy Cox: Absolutely, Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: unemployable at this stage in my life, which I'm quite happy about. So
Tracy Cox: Yeah, I'm actually unemployable. just don't think I could work for anybody just generally. Yeah, I don't want to work for anybody else now, just me. Before
Charlie Clarey: yeah, just generally unemployable. Yeah, I think I'm there actually. Hmm. Yes.
Tracy Cox: we go, Charlie, I was just wondering, do you have any books that you think that any of the listeners could read to help them in their
Charlie Clarey: Mm.
Tracy Cox: kind of move towards having their own business? Is there any inspirational books that you've read?
Charlie Clarey: I think yeah. I big fan of Carrie Green, actually. She's a huge entrepreneur, runs a female entrepreneur association, is
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: like a multimillionaire, but actually is the most down to earth person and gives real honest advice. So I think yeah, find I follow quite a few kind of great kind of inspirational women and you're just like, Okay, what are
Tracy Cox: Yeah.
Charlie Clarey: they doing and what are they kind of talking about and what books have they written? So yeah, her Joe Simpson is really good actually. She's really good with finance. She's an accountant, but she runs a brilliant business and it's I think it
Tracy Cox: Okay, yeah.
Charlie Clarey: definitely from her it's like knowing your numbers. This world is scary and then they add in how to run a business which isn't what you never what you thought it was, and then you have to have the numbers and it's like you have to know your numbers, you have to
Tracy Cox: Mm.
Charlie Clarey: That's the scary side that you think, God, corporation tax and invoicing and dividends and all of
Tracy Cox: So...
Charlie Clarey: these, you know, scary words that you think, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna put hold in that one day, or I've got an accountant, so I don't need to know that. I wanna be in charge of my business. I don't want to be an accountant, like I tell my clients, you don't need to put invoked in, but I wanna know when I talk to my accountant, what are the numbers I need to know, how do I feel comfortable
Tracy Cox: Sure.
Charlie Clarey: with my business. And I think that's really good. And Joe is brilliant for that, Joe Simpson. so yeah, there's
Tracy Cox: Great.
Charlie Clarey: a few there's a definitely a few women just out there. Yeah, try to be inspired but not overwhelmed 'cause I think there's a lot again telling women what
Tracy Cox: So, yeah.
Charlie Clarey: they should be doing. It's like, do do whatever feels right, I think.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, we don't shuddle over people here. It's a bad word.
Charlie Clarey: Yeah.
Tracy Cox: Anyway, Charlie, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show today as a guest. Yeah,
Charlie Clarey: Yeah, I've loved this.
Tracy Cox: I have as well, and it's been very informative. It's been very much fun as well. Yeah,
Charlie Clarey: nice.
Tracy Cox: and very empowering. And I'm glad that you're feeling the same way as me about this kind of surge coming up. And it's definitely coming. Yeah, me too.
Charlie Clarey: That's coming. Definitely. Yes, I'm very here for that. Yes, I want us to get t-shirts and banners and I feel definitely feel there's something in the in the water. Hmm. We could be busy. That
Tracy Cox: Yeah, hey that's a new business. There you go, see we can be business ready with the t-shirts for when it starts.
Charlie Clarey: is a very female thing to go, and and we can do that. It's like, do we need to do another business? How many women do you know run multiple businesses because of an idea they've had? I know quite a few, and you're like,
Tracy Cox: I know.
Charlie Clarey: how do you do that? It's like, so yes. Stick to what you're good at and c calm down
Tracy Cox: crazy yeah
Charlie Clarey: is my general device.
Tracy Cox: brilliant well thanks very much for that Charlie and enjoy the sunshine
Charlie Clarey: I will. It's a bit hot, my hair's got all frizzy. But yes, I will enjoy it while it lasts 'cause it doesn't last in this country, does it? It'll be raining before we know it.
Tracy Cox: Yeah, definitely. Take care.
Charlie Clarey: Thanks, bye.
Tracy Cox: Thank you so much for joining me today. If you've enjoyed this episode, I'd be really grateful if you could subscribe, leave a review, and share it with anyone you think might benefit from this conversation. Every subscription, review, and share helps the podcast reach more people and keeps these important conversations going. And if you're wondering what's next, I'd love to welcome you to the Coffee Chat etc. community where you'll find coaching. Courses, our membership, and a supportive space filled with real conversations, encouragement, and inspiration for your next chapter. You can find everything at coffeechhatra.com. Until next time, take care of yourself, be kind to yourself, and remember, every conversation has the power to create connection. See you soon.
