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Welcome to the Cat Cloud Podcast.
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As CatCloud approaches its 10-year anniversary, we get an opportunity to interview co-founder Chris Baca as he reflects on the company's growth and culture since the sledgehammer and pry bar demo days of the first cafe, the mistakes made along the way, and the people who stuck around and rode the wave.
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Talk about his success as a YouTube coffee educator, and hear some of his candid responses about what it actually takes to build a business that the community would generally miss if it disappeared.
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From reflections of the past, current state of the company, where Cat and Cloud goes from here.
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Thanks for joining us.
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Hope you enjoy.
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Alright, everybody, let me paint you a real-time picture of what's going on, okay?
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Just take a minute, breathe it in, center yourself.
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It's Thursday, 1.14 p.m.
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I'm sitting in the admin office right next to our roastery.
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We had a little scheduling snafu.
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So my BFF, Jared Trubert, could not be here.
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So I'm here with Senor Casey.
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Stuck with me.
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We are ripping it up.
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Just had a nice little chat, and we're gonna bring you a podcast.
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So that what we had lined up is not gonna work out without Jared because some things, you know, there's like a there's a key man, and he was gonna be a key man in this situation.
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And that's okay.
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Like we're we're pivoting.
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So we have a mega questions bank.
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Yeah.
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Some questions provided by you, the listener.
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That's right.
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And some provided by, I don't know, we uh whatever they just came to us on a mountaintop kind of thing.
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So Casey's just gonna rapid fire me for a little bit.
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Rapid.
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Well, it doesn't have to be super rapid.
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And then we'll just get to it.
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We will uh, you know, provide some value, insight, tickle your brain, floss your brain.
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We're gonna get there.
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All right, there you go.
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Right, I got questions, questions, questions.
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Okay, okay.
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I'm ready because then after this, I'm gonna make a uh fuzzy drink.
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Fuzzy specialty coffee cocktail drink.
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Oh man.
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Well, glad to have you here.
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Hey, thank you, sir.
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So I'll just dive in with a question.
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Let's let's get after it.
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You're coming up, we're coming up on 10 years.
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10.
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Yeah, we had a planning tenure planning meeting this morning.
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I have a to-do.
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That's an important marker, a decade.
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Feels like it.
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Yeah.
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So can I ask you how that feels to be at the 10-year mark?
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What's been on your mind?
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Yeah, I mean it's it's pretty interesting.
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So I'm not a huge holiday birthday celebrator.
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Um I I do my best to find the joy in the day-to-day and the time, you know, time inevitably goes by no matter what, because I kind of believe like if your days are rad, then your life is rad.
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And um the the day-to-day matters more than the big anniversaries.
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But 10 is like a mile marker.
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One of the things that Charles said in some of the planning and structuring meetings, co-owner Chuck Jack, financial wizard, green coffee, extraordinaire.
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Um it's really easy to see all the things you want to do, see all the things that you want to improve, how your organization business could be better, what's not going right.
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And he's really good about taking a moment and saying, like, look, let's just look, let's just look at the numbers of things on multiple levels.
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One, it's like we've been doing this for for 10 years.
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Most people don't make it out of year one, two, or three.
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Yeah.
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And that in and of itself is a really big deal.
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And some of the some of the metrics that we set out to hit initially, it's just like, hey, like, I'm I'm able to earn a living.
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Like the three of us have been able to build a place where we can earn a reasonable, reasonable living.
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I mean, we're not buying houses or anything, but we live in Santa Cruz.
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That's cool, right?
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Like I'm cool to be a scum dive renter for the rest of my life.
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Buying a house in Santa Cruz is different than buying a house in other places.
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Yeah.
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And um doing doing things that are that are awesome in an industry that you've been enjoying.
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And it was it was a dream, and part of that dream came to be a reality, and that's cool.
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And then, you know, it's like growing from the one store with eight team members to now having over a hundred and just creating a culture that is in good standing, both in the community with the team, and you know, the greater specialty coffee world abroad, where it's this will probably sound somewhat egotistical, which Leah knows I'm really good at, but um VHR knows.
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We have a brand that's in good standing.
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Yeah, you know, uh it is a it is a a cultural anchoring for some of the things that we try to do well workplace culture, hospitality.
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So it's just cool to take a moment and be like, wow, like in 2015, this is where the anniversary gets twisted.
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Yeah, because we actually started selling coffee and doing pop-ups in 2015.
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And the 2016 anniversary is based off the opening of our first store at Portola.
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So it's September 30th, yeah, 2016.
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So we use that as kind of the anchor date, which that's like a fun fact.
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If you go, if you go back and find some of the old, old merch, like specifically, there's some mugs on it that have Cat and Cloud established 2015 because we printed those and we're selling them on the web store before we actually open Portola.
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Wow.
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So there are some 2015 Cat and Cloud mugs out there, which is you know, if you have one of the things that's collector's items, thanks to billions of dollars, billions and billions.
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Um, but yeah, it it doesn't seem terribly long ago that we were it was 2015, we're standing inside Portola, the whole thing torn apart down to the scaffolding, which we you know, we did the demo ourselves because we couldn't afford to pay someone to do the demo.
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And it was like a garage, right?
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Yeah, the house of the past through garage, and it was like a tire shop.
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Originally, I got a cool picture of the seven uh of it in the 70s where it's Farmer Jones tire company.
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Oh heck yeah, and then it was probably some sort of office building, and who knows what?
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It was terrible building.
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I mean, cool, super killer location, but just everything, everything was wrong with it.
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Uh, you know, so we we show up and we finally found someone to help us build it, but just had to do what we had to do.
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So we show up with sledgehammers and pry bars and tools and kind of made it a thing.
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We called some friends over, like, hey, you know, if you're angry and you just want to beat some shit up, like you can come over, yeah, it's like smash out walls, and knock stuff down and kick things and throw things, yeah.
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You'd be doing us a favor.
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So it's like rage rooms.
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What are those rage rooms?
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It's like unofficial rage room.
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So I I it's just cool to be able to kind of you know uh time travel in that way, because you know, comparing today against yesterday, you're like, yeah, I guess we're doing something cool.
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Like I maybe I'm a little bit better.
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It's it's hard to tell.
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Right.
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But comparing today against ten years ago, it's a big difference.
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Yeah, I mean, I think you kind of touched on it a little bit, but and reflecting on that 10 years, is there are there things that you're feeling particularly proud of?
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I mean to have a yeah, uh that's a hard one to answer because there's so many things that have to happen to to like create something like this.
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And again, I think I don't how do you how do you say this?
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I think we're special, but I also think everybody all the other organizations and businesses out there have the opportunity to be special in their own way as well.
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I I don't think we're like the chosen ones or the older ones, but to to be special like this, a lot of things have to align and they all take a bunch of work and effort and intentionality.
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Like just to have a you know, going back to the being fortunate to even be in business, like to have some sort of longevity in a community, the community has to embrace you, and for the community to embrace you, you have to provide some sort of something awesome that the community is is wanting.
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It's just like you know, I could I'm not gonna say names, but I can think of like a bunch of businesses who are trying to bring something awesome, who are good at what they do, like from a product perspective, but not all the boxes were checked, so they had a lifespan of one year, four years, five years, just you know, places come and go.
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Right.
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And I I think it's cool to be a place where the guests want to stay and not abandon ship, even though we're not the cool new kid in town anymore.
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You know what I mean?
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And that would be that would be really easy, easy to do, uh, you know, where it's like, oh yeah, like Cat and Cod was cool in 2017, 18, whatever, and now I don't know, they're just not like the king.
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They're not like the fresh new kid, right?
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So I'm over it.
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Um and I think we you know you we have to prove ourselves in in in a couple different ways.
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So like one of those ways in retail is like Herman's really great at this, where it's like constantly experimenting and pushing into new areas, um, whether that's with fun and adventurous food, different signature seasonal beverages, which just weren't a part of our menu when we opened, we didn't have anything like that because it wasn't really a thing that was it wasn't a huge anchor point in the culture, and it is now because the culture is evolving over time.
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So we have to do our due diligence and keep up with that culture while also putting a ton of effort and energy into delivering on the things that we set out to do in the beginning, which is this is more than just a transactional coffee shop where you come in, give us your money and get great coffee.
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We're gonna provide you an experience that is gonna make you smile, hopefully that you want to tell your friends about and you're gonna remember it for a long time.
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And basically, you know, if you miss us if we were gone, like we're doing our job.
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Right.
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Like if we close tomorrow and you're just like, damn, dude, like I know there's a bunch of other places I could go for coffee, but I'm just really bummed the Cat and Cloud's not there.
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So to have people still choosing, because it is a choice, like people have a choice.
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I mean, there's three within, you know, yeah, it's not like there's no bad, it's not like there's a ton of good coffee options.
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So for people to continue to choose to do that, so super grateful to be in the community.
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And then of course the team on the front line are the people who are delivering that experience day in and day out to those guests, where it's yeah, it's it's pretty funny because like when we started, there's a couple anchor guests who had known Jared and myself for for years and years, and they would come in and Jared and I are on bar every day.
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Charles is in there washing dishes, so um, because he doesn't make espresso, which is great.
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Is is he's holding, he's held out.
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He was super super down, yeah.
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Like I think he maybe did one or two trainings.
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Charles is really great about knowing who he is and who he is.
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I love it.
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It's one of the greatest things about Charles.
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Yeah.
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So he's like, I will help, but like it doesn't make sense to train me to be a breeze.
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It's just not it's just not happening.
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Um, so we'd be on bar, and then you notice it a lot when we go to second location where it's like suddenly not everyone's there all the time.
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And then you got that thing that's really common in coffee shops where it's like, oh, well, Jared knows how I like it, or Chris knows how I like it, or you know, uh, oh man, it's not the same without you guys there, and now I come in and I don't see you, and that is it's a pain point and it's flattering at the same time.
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Yeah.
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Because we've worked really hard for a long time and we have a lot of experience.
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So, you know, and I've said this before, and this is not a not a diss.
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It's like if you put me on bar next to someone who just got hired three months ago, it's like I better be better than them.
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Yeah, I've been doing this for decades, right?
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Right, even though I don't do it on the day-to-day right now, it's just like I have that skill in my bag.
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You get the chill.
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Same same thing with Jared.
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So it's just like, sure, like we we've been practicing, it's cool to have people recognize that, like, hey, you're really good at this thing and you make me feel a certain kind of way.
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But it's always been a pain point for us because we knew that the goal is to not have people think about one or two people specifically and not create that cult of personality, but to know that when I go into Cat and Cloud, I'm gonna be taken care of, and it doesn't matter who's on bar.
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Because I think we've all done that thing.
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I've done it too, yeah.
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Where you're gonna get coffee somewhere and you walk by and you see who's in there, and you're like, nah, I'm good.
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Maybe I'll just like I'll I'll just make it myself today.
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I'm I'm cool, you know.
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Um so we we never wanted that to be the case, so we knew that we had to set up a system that allowed people to you know take some amount of control, learn things every day, and be able to deliver the the level of experience that we had in our minds to the people on the day-to-day because that's ultimately what is keeping the guests and the community engaged more so than yeah, and then people we have people come in in the partner program who are opening shops and building businesses, yeah, wholesale partners, and they often want to talk about marketing, and I don't think marketing's not important, but they really want to talk about you know, it's like Instagram strategy, photos, these things, reach, like all that stuff.
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And I'm just like, look, you are a one-location neighborhood coffee shop.
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That's a beautiful thing.
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Like, maybe you scale in the future, but it's like, and even if you do, it's never gonna be this small or feel like this again.
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And the thing that's going to make people return, like maybe there, and I think there is some amount of get him in the door.
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There's like a hook that you can do by presenting yourself well online, but like you really need to make it true when people come into the store because that's what's going to happen is you're going to build a buzz where it's just like person to person, you have to go here, you need to go there.
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I drink coffee here, we're meeting here.
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Like, that is the bread and butter of a single location independent business.
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Because like it's cool to want to be quote unquote famous or well known.
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Yeah.
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But for a lot of us, we serve a community, and that community exists within, like, you know, geez, um, a pretty tight radius from where from where we live.
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Yeah, west side Santa Cruz.
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And then the midtown East, yeah.
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If you do a good job, and then you can tell the story, like, then you might get some cool coffee tourism.
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Like, I talked to a guy outside today, he was wearing a lucky llama shirt, and that's a coffee shop in Carpenteria that I know through Julia, who owns Dune.
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So it's like, oh, lucky llama, and they were on a whole trip up from Malibu.
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They're from Chicago, but they're on a road trip from Malibu up north, just kind of stopping at coffee shops along the way.
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And they just discovered us.
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There's no idea of like who we are, where we sit, like what our history is in the industry.
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They're just like, oh yeah, we're talking to people, and they said, like, we gotta check this place out.
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Right.
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I'm just like, awesome, thanks for coming in.
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So that accounts for more than people think.
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It's not super I get why people don't want to think about.
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It can feel like it's not super sexy to think about, right?
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It's and it's it's harder to derive a metric from immediately.
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You know, it's a slower burn, but it's it's really important.
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Yeah, it's been interesting.
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Yeah, I feel like y'all have been pretty successful in achieving that that connection.
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I think that's some of the feedback that I get in the community a lot is oh, what do you work over at Cat and Cloud?
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And they're like, oh man, they're always super nice over there, which is sort of like that.
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That's a big deal.
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I mean, that's an that's part of that's a Santa Cruz thing too.
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Yeah.
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Where it's just our our service culture is overall lacking.
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You know, we're not um we got the a few people from La Marzoco home coming in tomorrow, actually.
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And I'm looking for a figuring out dinner, and I just have to let go and accept the fact it's like I am not gonna blow these people's minds with anything in in the food scene that we have to offer.
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Right.
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They live in Seattle, yeah, like they have it all.
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Like there's a super well-established food culture, super well-established hospitality service culture.
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It's just like I'm not winning this fight.
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I just need to get a place that's reasonable where we can all have fun time together and like get a table that's bright enough to seat everybody.
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Right.
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Um, and that's just part of being being here.
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Yeah, you know, um, and some people, you know, 85% of people love it.
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And then there's some people, because of the culture that surrounds us, just kind of hate it.
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They're just like, God, you guys are so friendly, it's gross.
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Like, fuck is wrong with you guys.
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Like, chill.
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Need some more yeah, could you guys be a little angstier?
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Well, it sounds like there's definitely those choices.
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Although, yeah, this is kind of the another crazy, ridiculous fact of the day.
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It's a little bit of an aside, but you know, those things that bring people in.
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So obviously, people talk about the kindness of the people that work here.
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Um, obviously, how good the coffee is.
00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:15.119
I'm like, oh man, I, you know, why did you have to give me this coffee now?
00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:16.240
I need to buy it now.
00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:22.079
I have to spend more than my my usual amount, and but they're happy and feel like it's totally worth it.
00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:24.160
The other one was we're talking about the burrito today.
00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:24.880
Oh, the burrito.
00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:27.519
Yeah, burrito all day, like this sort of like core thing we ran.
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:33.920
We were talking to Money Mike about like how many how many burritos we putting out there a week, and he was giving me some numbers.
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:40.720
And um so in linear feat, we sell 7.2 miles of burrito a year.
00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:42.240
So I think that's important to know.
00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:43.119
That's good to know.
00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:51.039
Yeah, I'm thinking about it in percentages because I know that like the 80-20 rule applies in the kitchen, and 80% of everything that goes out is a breakfast burrito.
00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:57.839
No matter how good all the other food is on the on the menu, it's just that's uh it's a it's a become a community staple.
00:18:58.160 --> 00:18:59.119
A community staple.
00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:17.359
So yeah, I think it's but that's a neat thing that to be established as a community staple, as a community member, and and I know one thinking Santa Cruz is so insular and little just part from our geography and what's meaningful to feel like you're it's small enough that you have impact.
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:27.440
You know, you have impact in a place and having four cafes, and I think people feel I think there's a sense of a little bit of Santa Cruz pride about about Cat and Cloud.
00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:30.720
Yeah, it extends beyond that's cool, yeah, which I think is really cool.
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:32.160
Yeah, it's something to be proud of.
00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:39.599
It I think we're in that zone where we are, you know, attached to one of the things that someone would do if they came to Santa Cruz, which is which is rat.
00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:40.799
Yeah, it's super cool.
00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:42.319
Yeah, I I I love that.
00:19:42.640 --> 00:20:01.440
Well, I think another question to kind of piggyback off something earlier that you were saying as sort of being established in specialty coffee, like you personally, you must have a lot of contact with people who or I've talked to a lot of people, and obviously you have uh significantly more who have found specialty coffee.
00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:03.839
My Rolodex is just gigantic.
00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:08.799
You still have a Rolodex, you fill out those cards and organize them.
00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:15.920
The people who are finding specialty coffee or who got into coffee through YouTube with some of the the OG Chris Bacchus stuff.
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:17.200
And just like, yeah, what's that?
00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:18.880
What's that like?
00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:19.920
It's cool.
00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:20.720
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:33.119
It's it's it's really funny because it it happened the other day when I was uh I was making a cappuccino and this woman walks up and she was waiting for her drink, and it was the cappuccino was for her.
00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:34.240
I don't even know why I was on bar.
00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:35.680
I can't even remember.
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:41.519
I worked bar this morning too, uh, for for a second because the POS system decided to eat itself.
00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:48.000
So I just I happened to be there at open, and then I noticed the line building up and nothing was moving.
00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:49.119
I was like, what's going on?
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:51.519
And it's just everything, it wouldn't take payment.
00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:52.400
Oh, geez.
00:20:52.559 --> 00:21:08.160
So yeah, so I was like, okay, cool, we're giving everyone free coffee until we get this thing figured out, and I'll jump on bar so you you guys can get on the phone and like talk to Jorge or Serena or whoever was on the other end of the line and get it figured out.
00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:09.680
Anyway, I don't know why I was on bar the other day.
00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:13.440
And it's like this girl's like, this is gonna sound weird, but uh, are you the guy from YouTube?
00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:14.799
And it's like, yeah.
00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:17.440
Are you that YouTube guy?
00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:32.160
Yeah, I mean, those videos were a um a reflection uh or they were my pushback on an overly complicated, an overcomplication of specialty coffee for new people.
00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:44.240
Because the that the era that those were made in was the you know what people will look back on as the pretentious hipster era of specialty coffee, where it's just like this so incredibly advanced thing that you couldn't possibly understand.
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:51.119
And like you can't make it if you don't have a mustache and a$300 apron, you know, you might as well just fucking try to do something else.
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:53.920
And that that was it, yeah, just watch from over there.
00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:55.519
Yeah, it's just no, let me handle this.
00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:56.960
I'm a professional barista.
00:21:57.279 --> 00:21:59.039
Yeah, I'm 23 and I know it all.
00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:07.119
Um And that was that was part of that was part of the the attitude that was sprinkled throughout the culture.
00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:12.480
And my whole take has always been no, no.
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:30.079
You know, if we 'cause I remember fighting tooth and nail to get the people that I cared about or people in my sphere to understand how special this thing was that was specialty coffee and why it was different and why they should maybe care.
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:37.599
And my thought was like, cool, like if the industries, if more people partake in it, everyone's better.
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:38.240
Yeah, everybody.
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:39.359
From A to Z.
00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:42.799
Like there's nobody who loses by that happening.
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:46.640
Like specialty coffee becoming more popular, nobody loses.
00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:55.440
It's like, do you want a world in which you, you know, you're on vacation and you just can't find like decent coffee?
00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:59.599
It's like, I would just love to be able to get reasonable coffee everywhere I go, you know what I mean?
00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:02.799
Do you want less options for delicious things?
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:04.079
Like, what's going on?
00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:10.720
So and it's like being pretentious and standoffish is not the way to get people excited about the thing that you love.
00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:11.200
Right.
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:16.799
So I'm just like, cool, how can we take these you know brewing methods or things like that aren't a mystery anymore?
00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:17.039
Right.
00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:19.359
It's like latte art's not a mystery anymore.
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:22.480
It's like everybody can do it, it's just a common normal thing.
00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:27.440
But then it wasn't, it was something that was special, and it was like just kind of like the cherry on top, this little bit extra.
00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:37.839
So it's like, how do we take these things, simplify them down just to their essence, and then just put that out there to help everybody hopefully try to get better.
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:40.880
Yeah, and it was, you know, I that was just the intention.
00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:46.480
And then it's like I found out later that people are like, oh yeah, we use that in our training program, and I was like, oh, cool.
00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:47.680
Like they're like, is that cool?
00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:48.720
I'm like, yeah, that's awesome.
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:50.079
That's like that's the whole idea.
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:50.720
That's the whole point.
00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:54.480
You know, if it if it works, let's let's run it.
00:23:54.720 --> 00:24:09.599
Yeah, well, I think it it really I think that spirit of welcoming and inclusion and accessibility to specialty coffee really shines through in the culture of Cat and Cloud still today.
00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:19.680
But I think you also have a knack for articulating very clearly and educating people very concisely on like these are the steps and this is what you do.
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:20.079
Yeah.
00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:33.519
And like this is the even I when you explain components of the machines that you're talking about, whether it's grinder or what you you know, espresso machine or whatever, you definitely have a knack for distilling it down very simply and clearly.
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:34.720
So I think that also.
00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:38.400
I think you're right.
00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:43.200
That's something that is one of my that is for sure one of my strengths.
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:47.440
And yeah, I'm I've I don't know.
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:59.119
I think there's some, yeah, there's some part of that that's like an innate ability, and then some part of it is also just again, I think born out of seeing people do it the complicated way and just thinking, damn, this doesn't need to be this hard.
00:24:59.359 --> 00:24:59.920
This is not that hard.
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:00.880
This is not that hard.
00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:01.599
Yeah.
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:03.359
And yeah.
00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:05.039
Yeah, that's a tone that comes through too.
00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:06.880
It's just like, oh, this is not a hard thing.
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:08.960
This is what's happening, this is why it does it.
00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:13.759
But yeah, I found that to be a a a cool skill of yours, too.
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:19.200
So keep it simple, and you know, then then you can choose your own adventure from there.
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:25.599
We offer a coffee subscription, and there's a couple different paths you can walk down.
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:28.240
Make cappuccinos on your Linnea Micro at home.
00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:35.920
You can get the answer, one of our flagship blends on Repeat and have an espresso that's so easy to dial in, it should be illegal.
00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:37.119
It's incredible with milk.
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:41.519
It's like a chewing on nougat that somebody accidentally sprinkled berries on top of.
00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:47.839
This is what we use for all our milk-based beverages in the cafe, and we have it on drip every day.
00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:49.759
Or maybe you like to mix it up.
00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:53.920
Maybe you spent five racks on your Weber Workshop EG1.
00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:55.440
I get it.
00:25:55.759 --> 00:25:59.279
Fire up a roaster's choice subscription and you can taste the rainbow.
00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:02.880
We've got different regions, different processing methods, different varieties.
00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:10.400
These are the copies that we love that rotate so you never get bored and always have something fresh in the hopper.
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:13.759
We envision a world in which businesses put culture first.
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:17.680
And this is the world that you're helping support by choosing Cat and Cloud for your subscription.
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:23.119
There's a link in the episode description, or you can just go to cattencloud.com slash subscription.
00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:24.559
We appreciate you.
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:38.960
Well, I mean, I guess speaking of choose your own adventure from there, 10 years causes you to look back, take stock of what's happened, reflect on where you are, and then what's next.
00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:41.200
You know, it's kind of like where where do you where do you go?
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:43.039
And I see you guys have been working on that.
00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:49.519
Yeah, and I like the way that made me think of something, something else too.
00:26:49.839 --> 00:27:08.640
Um because we've been in these in these planning meetings, and they're again, it's hard to talk about this stuff in a way where you're not um not seeming like you're um creating some sort of value hierarchy for this person's more important than that person.
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:23.279
But in the in the term of the like the 10 years and the journey, there are I can't overstate the importance of a few key people who have been able like running a small business is a fucking mess, dude.
00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:25.359
It's like the it's the worst idea ever.
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:29.599
You know, it's like a it's a terrible, it's just you should absolutely not do it.
00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:35.279
Like there's so many other careers you could have where you can just make money, chill out, or like chill a little bit more.
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:37.599
Like, you know, there's proven paths, right?
00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:57.279
Like um, and because the three of us as you know owners, like we have this idea, and then you know, you see this with personal projects, anything you do, like you've got the idea, and the idea is perfect and shiny, and then you've got your skill level, which is always much lower than the idea.
00:27:57.359 --> 00:28:06.160
And like despite the fact that Jared Charles and I had decades of experience in specialty coffee, we had absolutely zero years of experience running a business.
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:14.400
You know, I mean we'd done the jobs of you know, managing cafes or managing uh wholesale programs or finances.
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:23.440
But there's a difference between doing that job and running the whole thing and like all of the all the stuff that you don't know, which you don't know.
00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:34.400
Yeah, we really talked about that last week where you coming into business ownership, you've had an incredible amount of experience that between the three of you that set you up for success.
00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:34.880
Yeah.
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:40.799
But even still But even still, we just first we just screwed all the time.
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:41.039
Yeah.
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:48.400
Like I can't even begin to count the amount of really ridiculously bad decisions that we made.
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:49.200
So curious.
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:59.920
And then there's a there are a few people who despite all of those bad decisions, have said, like, okay, I can live with that.
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:02.240
I I believe in where this is going.
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:05.519
I'm I'm down for this journey.
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:08.720
Let's do this, you know.
00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:12.480
Um like Mark's definitely one of those people.
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:12.880
100%.
00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:14.880
Herman is definitely one of those people.
00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:17.920
It's just like, I mean, Herman got laid off, dude.
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:21.920
We we we laid off Herman during the pandemic.
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:28.240
He was just kind of starting to like it was like pre-his, you know, leadership journey.
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:31.279
He wasn't, you know, he was cool because he's always Herman, right?
00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:33.039
But he like wasn't who he is now.
00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:36.079
Um but so we laid him off.
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:58.559
And then when things started to settle down and he came back, is when we had, you know, and I think he told us it was a it was a bad decision too, because it was like we were turning over, we were turning over some some leadership, and then it was Herman and Levi, and we're just like we're just like, okay, you guys are are running the show, and this is the way you're gonna run it.
00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:03.359
And Herman and Levi were like, all right, let's fucking do this.
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:07.039
And then this was just like a few weeks ago where Herman's like, remember when you guys did that?
00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:08.880
Like, bad idea.
00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:11.359
Super bad idea.
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:14.480
Yeah, if Herman just walked into this TDF, awesome.
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:18.240
But um there's all these bumps, you know what I mean?
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:36.720
And and people who are willing to ride the bumps, not get frustrated, because I get how like I've been a part of growing companies, and I get how easy it is to get demotivated or to crave that structure that a more well-established company has.
00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:43.119
Like there is some safety, security, predictability, like you don't you're not creating the systems, they just exist.
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:51.200
And you don't have to like wander through the fog while you wait for ownership and leadership to create all the systems.
00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:56.319
So it takes a special kind of person, a special mentality to to run with a business like that.
00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:12.720
Um but and you know, one one of the things that Charles, again, he's like super insightful with bringing this stuff up, that he'll point to the people that are in these like really sought-after positions, like like Dulce and Green Buying.
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:17.119
It's like it's not really that easy to get a green buying position in specialty coffee.
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:20.160
And there's there are some key components to it.
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:23.599
It's like you gotta like work really hard to understand it.
00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:44.240
Like you gotta time, effort, yeah, energy, like all of those things matter, but then you also have to stick around, you have to be there long enough to be able to like grow in those positions and like snatch them for lack of a better term, as they become available.
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:44.799
Right.
00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:49.440
And it takes a certain amount of grit to ride the the, you know.
00:31:49.599 --> 00:32:01.119
And again, it's interesting to say it as we're 10 years in, but it's like every year that we go into, we're still on the small business roller coaster because as we do things we've never done before, it's the first time we've ever done them, you know?
00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:10.720
Yeah, but I think, you know, I I think that's just common for small business, and I think every place has their their own their own shit that they're working through.
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:19.599
But I think in a small business that affords an opportunity, you have to ride the bumps out, but I think you end up getting more ownership in the long run.
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:22.720
And people who the some people were like, how do you want to engage with your work?
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:27.039
Do you want to just like I want to clock in, I want to clock out, I don't really want to think about it.
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:35.599
I just it's just work is this one thing, and then it's um I I and then but I'm more focused on this other other portion of my life.
00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:47.839
But there's other people who are willing to endure some of that uncomf discomfort or struggle or those questions and challenges, but feeling like they're working towards something.
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:49.839
Yeah, that's meaningful for a lot of people.
00:32:50.160 --> 00:33:15.119
Yeah, and I think that's that is a real that's a common shared sentiment, and it's also a huge gamble because and that's where I'm struggling to think of the the exact question or or framing, but it's it's not uncommon that people will ask me, like, hey, I've been at my job and like this is happening and that is happening, and I'm not sure if I want to stay.
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:21.359
I don't know if they have the best intentions in mind, and it's like this happened and it was weird.
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:23.759
And there's really there's like a couple questions.
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:30.079
It's like one, like, are like where do you stand in in the in the fabric of the culture?
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:31.680
You gotta be honest with yourself.
00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:34.799
It's like, are you a linchpin or are you not?
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:40.240
And a lot of people think that they are when they're really not, and that is that is hard to say.
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:46.160
Um, do you trust the people that are running the company and their intentions?
00:33:46.319 --> 00:33:53.599
And the intentions are super important because they're gonna fuck up and mess up, like nobody's perfect, and they're gonna have a big are they big goose heads hard.
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:55.359
Is there heart in the right place, right?
00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:59.279
It's like, do you feel like you're gonna get screwed over?
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:16.000
And then like, you know, because one of the things that's interesting is it's like you're like depending on how you're framing it, if we're talking in the in the context of a career, which you know, there's a there's a clear distinction between a job and a career.
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:30.559
Um if you're talking about a career, Jared was talking about this last week, where there's like some sort of scale is necessary and able to provide something that's that you could like couch as a career.
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:48.559
And like that doesn't mean you are not a professional if you work somewhere small that can't afford you a career, like you can still be a professional barista, professional roaster, all those things, but it's like you're gonna have a hard time making that a career if your business top line revenue is only a million bucks, you know?
00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:51.679
That has to get split up with all right, all the different ways.
00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:52.159
Yeah.
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:53.599
So where was I going with that?
00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:54.079
Oh, yeah.
00:34:54.239 --> 00:35:11.679
If you're thinking about a career and that scale, one of the things, and you you see this, I don't know how common it is, but it's there's definitely a buzz about it because it's happening more and more, where it's like coffee companies will get to a certain size, and then the next thing is like, okay, there's three paths.
00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:34.880
We can either stay here, grow incrementally and slowly, which you know, you have to be in a certain financial position to be able to absorb that, or we can sell to like a private equity thing, and then house is gonna get cleaned, or we're gonna grow aggressively, and then still maybe house is gonna get cleaned because and this is like absolutely true.
00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:40.800
The things that got you to the scale that you're at now are not the things that are gonna 3x that scale.
00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:43.519
Like it's just it's it's different.
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:46.000
Like, and that is true.
00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:49.199
So that's why I say it is a it is a gamble.
00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:52.639
Like you're really you're betting on your company, but you're betting on yourself too.
00:35:52.719 --> 00:36:12.400
That's like I can grow and perform enough to meet the needs of this organization that's gonna go from like, you know, I'll use numbers because it's easy to quantify, but it's like, you know, five mil to ten mil to twenty to forty to thirty plus, whatever that is, because those those things aren't the same, you know what I mean?
00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:18.639
Um so it's not like you can be static while the company grows, like you gotta you gotta get in there.
00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:22.239
So it it is a little bit of a little bit of a bet.
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:22.559
Right.
00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:28.239
But yeah, and they're just like maybe ownership, what are they connected to that?
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:38.159
Presenting that culture or that identity uh, you know, when they are confronted with those larger decisions about growing, what are they willing to give up and what are they holding on to?
00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:44.239
Whether that's yeah, vision owner, you know, vision ownership, uh decision making, it's all that stuff.
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:45.440
Yeah, it's really interesting.
00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:57.440
I I um I I don't talk about this a lot, but I think it's just a useful like real analogy or or real like experience.
00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:05.679
So it's like a cut my chops at Ritual in the city, and then was working for Verve here and during the time when they were expanding into LA.
00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:11.840
And I remember telling Colby, who is the one of the founders and the current CEO who I have a good relationship with.
00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:12.559
We still talk.
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:18.239
Um I was like, dude, we're going to LA, like, I'll go, I'll set up the stores, I'll do the things, da-da-da-da-da.
00:37:18.800 --> 00:37:26.000
And what ultimately ended up happening was I was not chosen to do that, somebody else did it.
00:37:26.239 --> 00:37:38.239
And they opened a handful of stores in Los Angeles, and there was like a short period of time where I was just like kind of like miffed about the whole thing.
00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:45.199
But when I think about it now, I'm just like, yeah, I would not have been able to do that.
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:47.760
And I don't think it's like a mental capacity thing.
00:37:47.840 --> 00:38:01.840
I just think like knowing myself, the things that I like to do, I was despite my good standing in the company, and I hadn't done anything to make anybody think that I would like, you know, I've always represented the the brand well, like worked hard, done the whole thing.
00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:10.400
And so it's like despite all those things, I was still a bad choice to do this new thing that the company was going to do.
00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:20.719
And it's hard to see in the moment, but I'm just like, oh, the decision to not pick me for that was absolutely the right decision, and that's something that's interesting to sit with, you know?
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:21.119
Yeah.
00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:25.519
Um, different things require different needs, so yeah, yeah.
00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:26.880
Dude, work is a trip.
00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:29.360
Yeah, like work is crazy.
00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:32.800
Um I know it I think in career too.
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:43.920
Uh I don't know if this plays into it at all, but as you have family or things like that and have done things for a certain amount of time, there's a it can be a reassessment of what you do and where you're going.
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:56.320
And I mean, having a kid is the biggest thing, I think, for me, that's or I know for me that is like changed the how I look at the long term and like the arc of a career.
00:38:56.719 --> 00:39:01.679
Because it's like, is I mean, well, you have kids, it's just it's the ultimate responsibility.
00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:02.000
Right.
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:07.039
There's no other level of responsibility that's higher than that.
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:14.400
And you know, it is laughable when I think about what I felt responsibility was before.
00:39:14.559 --> 00:39:20.639
Because it's like even when life was really hard and I had to do this and da-da-da-da, it's just like it didn't really matter.
00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:25.679
Like it was always going to be fine, and you have just so much flexibility.
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:26.320
Oh, yeah.
00:39:28.719 --> 00:39:32.880
My family just went out of town for a couple days, and I there's no one in the house.
00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:42.880
It's the weirdest feeling and the the independence of just being like, I could I could just make a decision and do it without a committee to be involved.
00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:55.440
Uh yeah, I can really resonate with you hear these stories about people who really don't like their job, but they make a certain amount of money, and life in that sense is more or less comfortable.
00:39:55.760 --> 00:40:07.119
And they have a family, the golden handcuffs, and like I understand why it's hard to just throw it all out and say, I'm gonna get after it and do this new interesting thing.
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:12.159
Yeah, because there's just more it it just feels like a deeper sense of of responsibility.
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:18.239
Um but I mean I did that.
00:40:18.320 --> 00:40:22.239
It's it was pretty scary, pretty wild, and luckily I was able to make the shift.
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:29.440
But yeah, that's a pretty you can see how people don't it's yeah, it's it's interesting.
00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:42.239
But I mean I don't back to Cat and Cloud, despite all of the frustrations that come with doing something like this, if you're zooming out so far, it's hard to be anything other than grateful.
00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:45.440
And you know, if you think about it on a good day, you're like, wow, I'm really lucky.
00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:47.119
Like this is kind of cool.
00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:53.280
Um 24-year-old me would be hyped.
00:40:53.679 --> 00:40:54.639
Right, yeah, absolutely.
00:40:55.039 --> 00:41:01.440
If you time travel and was like, there's 24-year-old Chris, and it's like, oh, let me show you this roastery, oh let me show you these cafes.
00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:06.239
Yeah, like here, let's go just eat a cappuccino, uh that blah blah blah.
00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:09.760
It's just oh, that's kind of crazy, you know.
00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:11.280
And who knows?
00:41:11.360 --> 00:41:23.440
Like, I didn't really answer your question that like where the future is, because it's like you know, it's an ongoing conversation, but wherever that goes, there's still this cool like, oh wow, there's there's something going on here, you know.
00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:29.119
Um yeah, I mean the future, I think the future is is is bright for Cat and Cloud.
00:41:29.199 --> 00:41:43.519
I think for me, coming in and and evaluating what things Cat and Cloud has going for it is very exciting because at its at its roots and at its heart, it all the as you say, all those boxes are kind of checked.
00:41:43.679 --> 00:42:07.519
It feels like the kind of team and people that you have working there, the quality of the product that you're making, and then I think also the energy and the spirit and the mission that you're trying to put out there in the world, those are all things to feel good about and things that you can feel proud of and and things that can drive you forward into the future.
00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:14.239
And so um as opposed to like not having you know, missing one of those big P those pieces changed a lot.
00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:26.480
Oh man, the team, you know, don't have that core team of people who have run ridden those waves or have been those the those keys pieces you were talking about, not putting out a product that's something you could be proud of.
00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:33.199
I mean, not having any of those things seems so would be hard to would be hard to make and shift and do.
00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:37.760
So having those things and then looking to the future with those and your on your belt is is solid.
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:45.519
Yeah, and then the one thing that I would want to end with is that every organization can have those things.
00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:54.960
You know, one of the things that is this is really prevalent in the cafe world, where it's just like, oh, you guys have such great people.
00:42:55.039 --> 00:42:58.880
What are you gonna do when they all leave?
00:42:59.119 --> 00:43:42.239
And it's like there's this mindset that there's this finite number of amazing people in this world, and just for some reason, like in this cafe that employs, you know, 12 to 20 people that we just happen to have all of the only good people in town that are just working here right now, and when they leave, there's just not it's like no, there's there are people with incredible potential everywhere, and they're waiting for a place where they feel like they can do their best work and contribute to something that's awesome, and like maybe they don't, maybe they're a little rough around the edges in some areas, like service hospitality, all the other things that come with like you know, just being new to the workforce.
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:49.920
It's like, you know, we can't expect young people just entering the workforce to like automatically understand or know all of this stuff.
00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:53.920
But it it's it's like, yeah, we have all these people that I've mentioned.
00:43:54.000 --> 00:44:03.039
There are versions of those people in your town, in your neighborhood, and you can create businesses that don't have to be of any particular size.
00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:07.039
They can be small, they can be huge, they can be in between, and you can do the same things.
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:18.800
And that's like to me, that's what the that's the most exciting part about what we stand for, which is not just our own brand, but what the world could be.
00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:32.079
More businesses operating like this, and like like you don't want to go anywhere and have a bad experience, like you know like we talked about with coffee, but it's just like overall, it's like wouldn't it be cooler if the butcher shop you went to was awesome?
00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:38.880
And the grocery store you went to had like people that were just stoked out of their minds to be there, and like all those things make up the fabric of your day.
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:43.440
So it's it's like these things are available to ever to everybody.
00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:50.960
You just gotta do a little like mining, refining, take some intentionality, but yeah, it's it's there.
00:44:51.199 --> 00:44:55.440
I think you said it, and I think that's as we look forward with with the podcast too.
00:44:55.599 --> 00:45:11.760
I think the intent is to share more of those things about what we are doing and not feel like it's a secret that we're holding on to, but the good vibes you want to share, just like you all have been sharing specialty coffee and how to connect to that.
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:15.199
So anyway, excited to see where things go next.
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:16.960
Jared, we're we're missing you today.
00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:18.079
Yeah, Jared, thanks a lot.
00:45:18.239 --> 00:45:19.760
We'll just end with we'll end with that.
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:21.519
You can catch Jared next week.
00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:23.840
Yeah, you guys tune in next week with Jared.
00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:24.880
All right, well, thanks y'all.
00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:28.400
Thanks, Chris, for your candidness and uh openness.
00:45:28.639 --> 00:45:30.480
I'm gonna go make some cold foam word.
00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:32.079
All right, peace out.
00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:35.760
All right, everyone, that's the podcast for this week.
00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:47.199
If you've got something culture, coffee, or business related that's tickling your brain and you want us to shine a light on it, you can send us an email to podcast at catandcloud.com.
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:49.519
There's also a podcast page on our website.
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:54.960
If you scroll to the bottom of that page, you can record a voice message for us with your questions or comments.
00:45:55.119 --> 00:46:01.360
But be warned, we will play your beautiful voice on our podcast unless you tell us not to.
00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:06.239
Our website is also a hub for all things cat and cloud, including coffee.
00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:14.159
If you're looking for somewhere to start, you don't know where that is, the answer, our flagship blend is a great go-to coffee.
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:20.719
We use it for all of our milk-based espresso beverages in the cafes, and we always have it on as a brewed coffee option.
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:24.719
It's super easy to pull for all you home espresso wizards.
00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:37.519
We've also got a rotating menu of single origin offerings if you want to get into something a little bit more wild and explore some of the different characteristics that these special coffees have.
00:46:38.239 --> 00:46:40.719
So check it out, catandcloud.com.
00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:42.239
Appreciate you spending your time with us.
00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:43.679
We hope you're having an amazing week.
00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:44.719
Peace.
00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:06.400
Welcome to the Cat Cloud Podcast.
00:00:06.719 --> 00:00:25.760
As CatCloud approaches its 10-year anniversary, we get an opportunity to interview co-founder Chris Baca as he reflects on the company's growth and culture since the sledgehammer and pry bar demo days of the first cafe, the mistakes made along the way, and the people who stuck around and rode the wave.
00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:36.399
Talk about his success as a YouTube coffee educator, and hear some of his candid responses about what it actually takes to build a business that the community would generally miss if it disappeared.
00:00:36.719 --> 00:00:41.759
From reflections of the past, current state of the company, where Cat and Cloud goes from here.
00:00:45.039 --> 00:00:46.079
Thanks for joining us.
00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:47.439
Hope you enjoy.
00:00:50.479 --> 00:00:54.079
Alright, everybody, let me paint you a real-time picture of what's going on, okay?
00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:57.840
Just take a minute, breathe it in, center yourself.
00:00:58.079 --> 00:01:00.479
It's Thursday, 1.14 p.m.
00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:05.599
I'm sitting in the admin office right next to our roastery.
00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:07.359
We had a little scheduling snafu.
00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:11.840
So my BFF, Jared Trubert, could not be here.
00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:14.319
So I'm here with Senor Casey.
00:01:14.560 --> 00:01:15.200
Stuck with me.
00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:17.280
We are ripping it up.
00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:21.120
Just had a nice little chat, and we're gonna bring you a podcast.
00:01:21.280 --> 00:01:29.840
So that what we had lined up is not gonna work out without Jared because some things, you know, there's like a there's a key man, and he was gonna be a key man in this situation.
00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:30.560
And that's okay.
00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:32.239
Like we're we're pivoting.
00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:34.400
So we have a mega questions bank.
00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:35.120
Yeah.
00:01:35.359 --> 00:01:38.079
Some questions provided by you, the listener.
00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:38.959
That's right.
00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:44.400
And some provided by, I don't know, we uh whatever they just came to us on a mountaintop kind of thing.
00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:49.840
So Casey's just gonna rapid fire me for a little bit.
00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:50.560
Rapid.
00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:52.079
Well, it doesn't have to be super rapid.
00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:54.000
And then we'll just get to it.
00:01:54.879 --> 00:01:59.519
We will uh, you know, provide some value, insight, tickle your brain, floss your brain.
00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:00.319
We're gonna get there.
00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:01.040
All right, there you go.
00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:02.879
Right, I got questions, questions, questions.
00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:03.519
Okay, okay.
00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:07.920
I'm ready because then after this, I'm gonna make a uh fuzzy drink.
00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:10.560
Fuzzy specialty coffee cocktail drink.
00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:11.439
Oh man.
00:02:11.599 --> 00:02:12.719
Well, glad to have you here.
00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:13.759
Hey, thank you, sir.
00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:16.800
So I'll just dive in with a question.
00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:17.919
Let's let's get after it.
00:02:18.319 --> 00:02:20.000
You're coming up, we're coming up on 10 years.
00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:20.479
10.
00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:24.800
Yeah, we had a planning tenure planning meeting this morning.
00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:25.919
I have a to-do.
00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:29.280
That's an important marker, a decade.
00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:30.159
Feels like it.
00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:30.639
Yeah.
00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:35.039
So can I ask you how that feels to be at the 10-year mark?
00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:36.080
What's been on your mind?
00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:38.080
Yeah, I mean it's it's pretty interesting.
00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:42.080
So I'm not a huge holiday birthday celebrator.
00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:51.840
Um I I do my best to find the joy in the day-to-day and the time, you know, time inevitably goes by no matter what, because I kind of believe like if your days are rad, then your life is rad.
00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:56.319
And um the the day-to-day matters more than the big anniversaries.
00:02:56.479 --> 00:02:59.039
But 10 is like a mile marker.
00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:13.919
One of the things that Charles said in some of the planning and structuring meetings, co-owner Chuck Jack, financial wizard, green coffee, extraordinaire.
00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:26.080
Um it's really easy to see all the things you want to do, see all the things that you want to improve, how your organization business could be better, what's not going right.
00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:36.879
And he's really good about taking a moment and saying, like, look, let's just look, let's just look at the numbers of things on multiple levels.
00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:39.199
One, it's like we've been doing this for for 10 years.
00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:42.479
Most people don't make it out of year one, two, or three.
00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:43.120
Yeah.
00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:47.039
And that in and of itself is a really big deal.
00:03:47.439 --> 00:03:58.319
And some of the some of the metrics that we set out to hit initially, it's just like, hey, like, I'm I'm able to earn a living.
00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:03.280
Like the three of us have been able to build a place where we can earn a reasonable, reasonable living.
00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:06.000
I mean, we're not buying houses or anything, but we live in Santa Cruz.
00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:07.039
That's cool, right?
00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:10.879
Like I'm cool to be a scum dive renter for the rest of my life.
00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:13.759
Buying a house in Santa Cruz is different than buying a house in other places.
00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:14.240
Yeah.
00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:22.000
And um doing doing things that are that are awesome in an industry that you've been enjoying.
00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:26.959
And it was it was a dream, and part of that dream came to be a reality, and that's cool.
00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:53.600
And then, you know, it's like growing from the one store with eight team members to now having over a hundred and just creating a culture that is in good standing, both in the community with the team, and you know, the greater specialty coffee world abroad, where it's this will probably sound somewhat egotistical, which Leah knows I'm really good at, but um VHR knows.
00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:55.439
We have a brand that's in good standing.
00:04:55.519 --> 00:05:02.319
Yeah, you know, uh it is a it is a a cultural anchoring for some of the things that we try to do well workplace culture, hospitality.
00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:11.279
So it's just cool to take a moment and be like, wow, like in 2015, this is where the anniversary gets twisted.
00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:17.839
Yeah, because we actually started selling coffee and doing pop-ups in 2015.
00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:22.639
And the 2016 anniversary is based off the opening of our first store at Portola.
00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:25.040
So it's September 30th, yeah, 2016.
00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:28.079
So we use that as kind of the anchor date, which that's like a fun fact.
00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:41.759
If you go, if you go back and find some of the old, old merch, like specifically, there's some mugs on it that have Cat and Cloud established 2015 because we printed those and we're selling them on the web store before we actually open Portola.
00:05:42.079 --> 00:05:42.240
Wow.
00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:53.199
So there are some 2015 Cat and Cloud mugs out there, which is you know, if you have one of the things that's collector's items, thanks to billions of dollars, billions and billions.
00:05:53.920 --> 00:06:10.959
Um, but yeah, it it doesn't seem terribly long ago that we were it was 2015, we're standing inside Portola, the whole thing torn apart down to the scaffolding, which we you know, we did the demo ourselves because we couldn't afford to pay someone to do the demo.
00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:12.639
And it was like a garage, right?
00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:17.199
Yeah, the house of the past through garage, and it was like a tire shop.
00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:22.079
Originally, I got a cool picture of the seven uh of it in the 70s where it's Farmer Jones tire company.
00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:27.040
Oh heck yeah, and then it was probably some sort of office building, and who knows what?
00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:28.240
It was terrible building.
00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:33.279
I mean, cool, super killer location, but just everything, everything was wrong with it.
00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:41.199
Uh, you know, so we we show up and we finally found someone to help us build it, but just had to do what we had to do.
00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:46.160
So we show up with sledgehammers and pry bars and tools and kind of made it a thing.
00:06:46.240 --> 00:07:00.720
We called some friends over, like, hey, you know, if you're angry and you just want to beat some shit up, like you can come over, yeah, it's like smash out walls, and knock stuff down and kick things and throw things, yeah.
00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:01.759
You'd be doing us a favor.
00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:02.800
So it's like rage rooms.
00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:04.319
What are those rage rooms?
00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:07.759
It's like unofficial rage room.
00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:24.959
So I I it's just cool to be able to kind of you know uh time travel in that way, because you know, comparing today against yesterday, you're like, yeah, I guess we're doing something cool.
00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:26.720
Like I maybe I'm a little bit better.
00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:27.839
It's it's hard to tell.
00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:28.240
Right.
00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:31.600
But comparing today against ten years ago, it's a big difference.
00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:42.959
Yeah, I mean, I think you kind of touched on it a little bit, but and reflecting on that 10 years, is there are there things that you're feeling particularly proud of?
00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:58.000
I mean to have a yeah, uh that's a hard one to answer because there's so many things that have to happen to to like create something like this.
00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:02.560
And again, I think I don't how do you how do you say this?
00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:11.040
I think we're special, but I also think everybody all the other organizations and businesses out there have the opportunity to be special in their own way as well.
00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:20.160
I I don't think we're like the chosen ones or the older ones, but to to be special like this, a lot of things have to align and they all take a bunch of work and effort and intentionality.
00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:38.000
Like just to have a you know, going back to the being fortunate to even be in business, like to have some sort of longevity in a community, the community has to embrace you, and for the community to embrace you, you have to provide some sort of something awesome that the community is is wanting.
00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:58.480
It's just like you know, I could I'm not gonna say names, but I can think of like a bunch of businesses who are trying to bring something awesome, who are good at what they do, like from a product perspective, but not all the boxes were checked, so they had a lifespan of one year, four years, five years, just you know, places come and go.
00:08:58.559 --> 00:08:58.799
Right.
00:08:59.039 --> 00:09:10.960
And I I think it's cool to be a place where the guests want to stay and not abandon ship, even though we're not the cool new kid in town anymore.
00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:11.840
You know what I mean?
00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:25.919
And that would be that would be really easy, easy to do, uh, you know, where it's like, oh yeah, like Cat and Cod was cool in 2017, 18, whatever, and now I don't know, they're just not like the king.
00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:27.440
They're not like the fresh new kid, right?
00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:28.720
So I'm over it.
00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:36.879
Um and I think we you know you we have to prove ourselves in in in a couple different ways.
00:09:36.960 --> 00:10:05.440
So like one of those ways in retail is like Herman's really great at this, where it's like constantly experimenting and pushing into new areas, um, whether that's with fun and adventurous food, different signature seasonal beverages, which just weren't a part of our menu when we opened, we didn't have anything like that because it wasn't really a thing that was it wasn't a huge anchor point in the culture, and it is now because the culture is evolving over time.
00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:21.759
So we have to do our due diligence and keep up with that culture while also putting a ton of effort and energy into delivering on the things that we set out to do in the beginning, which is this is more than just a transactional coffee shop where you come in, give us your money and get great coffee.
00:10:21.919 --> 00:10:30.080
We're gonna provide you an experience that is gonna make you smile, hopefully that you want to tell your friends about and you're gonna remember it for a long time.
00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:36.480
And basically, you know, if you miss us if we were gone, like we're doing our job.
00:10:36.639 --> 00:10:36.720
Right.
00:10:36.879 --> 00:10:47.120
Like if we close tomorrow and you're just like, damn, dude, like I know there's a bunch of other places I could go for coffee, but I'm just really bummed the Cat and Cloud's not there.
00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:51.600
So to have people still choosing, because it is a choice, like people have a choice.
00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:59.200
I mean, there's three within, you know, yeah, it's not like there's no bad, it's not like there's a ton of good coffee options.
00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:02.799
So for people to continue to choose to do that, so super grateful to be in the community.
00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:25.600
And then of course the team on the front line are the people who are delivering that experience day in and day out to those guests, where it's yeah, it's it's pretty funny because like when we started, there's a couple anchor guests who had known Jared and myself for for years and years, and they would come in and Jared and I are on bar every day.
00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:31.600
Charles is in there washing dishes, so um, because he doesn't make espresso, which is great.
00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:33.600
Is is he's holding, he's held out.
00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:35.519
He was super super down, yeah.
00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:37.600
Like I think he maybe did one or two trainings.
00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:40.240
Charles is really great about knowing who he is and who he is.
00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:40.639
I love it.
00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:42.240
It's one of the greatest things about Charles.
00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:42.559
Yeah.
00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:46.720
So he's like, I will help, but like it doesn't make sense to train me to be a breeze.
00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:48.159
It's just not it's just not happening.
00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:56.960
Um, so we'd be on bar, and then you notice it a lot when we go to second location where it's like suddenly not everyone's there all the time.
00:11:57.120 --> 00:12:18.799
And then you got that thing that's really common in coffee shops where it's like, oh, well, Jared knows how I like it, or Chris knows how I like it, or you know, uh, oh man, it's not the same without you guys there, and now I come in and I don't see you, and that is it's a pain point and it's flattering at the same time.
00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:19.200
Yeah.
00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:23.360
Because we've worked really hard for a long time and we have a lot of experience.
00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:26.879
So, you know, and I've said this before, and this is not a not a diss.
00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:32.159
It's like if you put me on bar next to someone who just got hired three months ago, it's like I better be better than them.
00:12:32.240 --> 00:12:33.840
Yeah, I've been doing this for decades, right?
00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:37.759
Right, even though I don't do it on the day-to-day right now, it's just like I have that skill in my bag.
00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:38.399
You get the chill.
00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:39.840
Same same thing with Jared.
00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:48.320
So it's just like, sure, like we we've been practicing, it's cool to have people recognize that, like, hey, you're really good at this thing and you make me feel a certain kind of way.
00:12:48.559 --> 00:13:07.200
But it's always been a pain point for us because we knew that the goal is to not have people think about one or two people specifically and not create that cult of personality, but to know that when I go into Cat and Cloud, I'm gonna be taken care of, and it doesn't matter who's on bar.
00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:08.799
Because I think we've all done that thing.
00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:10.399
I've done it too, yeah.
00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:17.200
Where you're gonna get coffee somewhere and you walk by and you see who's in there, and you're like, nah, I'm good.
00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:20.000
Maybe I'll just like I'll I'll just make it myself today.
00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:21.759
I'm I'm cool, you know.
00:13:22.399 --> 00:14:15.840
Um so we we never wanted that to be the case, so we knew that we had to set up a system that allowed people to you know take some amount of control, learn things every day, and be able to deliver the the level of experience that we had in our minds to the people on the day-to-day because that's ultimately what is keeping the guests and the community engaged more so than yeah, and then people we have people come in in the partner program who are opening shops and building businesses, yeah, wholesale partners, and they often want to talk about marketing, and I don't think marketing's not important, but they really want to talk about you know, it's like Instagram strategy, photos, these things, reach, like all that stuff.
00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:21.120
And I'm just like, look, you are a one-location neighborhood coffee shop.
00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:21.919
That's a beautiful thing.
00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:27.120
Like, maybe you scale in the future, but it's like, and even if you do, it's never gonna be this small or feel like this again.
00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:34.480
And the thing that's going to make people return, like maybe there, and I think there is some amount of get him in the door.
00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:50.080
There's like a hook that you can do by presenting yourself well online, but like you really need to make it true when people come into the store because that's what's going to happen is you're going to build a buzz where it's just like person to person, you have to go here, you need to go there.
00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:52.720
I drink coffee here, we're meeting here.
00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:58.240
Like, that is the bread and butter of a single location independent business.
00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:04.159
Because like it's cool to want to be quote unquote famous or well known.
00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:04.639
Yeah.
00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:14.720
But for a lot of us, we serve a community, and that community exists within, like, you know, geez, um, a pretty tight radius from where from where we live.
00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:15.919
Yeah, west side Santa Cruz.
00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:18.320
And then the midtown East, yeah.
00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:25.360
If you do a good job, and then you can tell the story, like, then you might get some cool coffee tourism.
00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:34.159
Like, I talked to a guy outside today, he was wearing a lucky llama shirt, and that's a coffee shop in Carpenteria that I know through Julia, who owns Dune.
00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:39.759
So it's like, oh, lucky llama, and they were on a whole trip up from Malibu.
00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:46.799
They're from Chicago, but they're on a road trip from Malibu up north, just kind of stopping at coffee shops along the way.
00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:50.639
And they just discovered us.
00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:58.480
There's no idea of like who we are, where we sit, like what our history is in the industry.
00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:01.440
They're just like, oh yeah, we're talking to people, and they said, like, we gotta check this place out.
00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:01.759
Right.
00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:04.000
I'm just like, awesome, thanks for coming in.
00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:06.000
So that accounts for more than people think.
00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:10.000
It's not super I get why people don't want to think about.
00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:12.799
It can feel like it's not super sexy to think about, right?
00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:17.600
It's and it's it's harder to derive a metric from immediately.
00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:20.320
You know, it's a slower burn, but it's it's really important.
00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:21.600
Yeah, it's been interesting.
00:16:21.679 --> 00:16:27.919
Yeah, I feel like y'all have been pretty successful in achieving that that connection.
00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:33.759
I think that's some of the feedback that I get in the community a lot is oh, what do you work over at Cat and Cloud?
00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:38.639
And they're like, oh man, they're always super nice over there, which is sort of like that.
00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:40.480
That's a big deal.
00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:43.039
I mean, that's an that's part of that's a Santa Cruz thing too.
00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:43.279
Yeah.
00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:48.000
Where it's just our our service culture is overall lacking.
00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:57.519
You know, we're not um we got the a few people from La Marzoco home coming in tomorrow, actually.
00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:11.599
And I'm looking for a figuring out dinner, and I just have to let go and accept the fact it's like I am not gonna blow these people's minds with anything in in the food scene that we have to offer.
00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:11.839
Right.
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:14.160
They live in Seattle, yeah, like they have it all.
00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:20.160
Like there's a super well-established food culture, super well-established hospitality service culture.
00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:22.640
It's just like I'm not winning this fight.
00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:28.720
I just need to get a place that's reasonable where we can all have fun time together and like get a table that's bright enough to seat everybody.
00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:29.200
Right.
00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:32.319
Um, and that's just part of being being here.
00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:38.799
Yeah, you know, um, and some people, you know, 85% of people love it.
00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:43.440
And then there's some people, because of the culture that surrounds us, just kind of hate it.
00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:47.839
They're just like, God, you guys are so friendly, it's gross.
00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:50.960
Like, fuck is wrong with you guys.
00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:51.920
Like, chill.
00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:55.200
Need some more yeah, could you guys be a little angstier?
00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:57.599
Well, it sounds like there's definitely those choices.
00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:01.599
Although, yeah, this is kind of the another crazy, ridiculous fact of the day.
00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:05.119
It's a little bit of an aside, but you know, those things that bring people in.
00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:09.119
So obviously, people talk about the kindness of the people that work here.
00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:11.039
Um, obviously, how good the coffee is.
00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:15.119
I'm like, oh man, I, you know, why did you have to give me this coffee now?
00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:16.240
I need to buy it now.
00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:22.079
I have to spend more than my my usual amount, and but they're happy and feel like it's totally worth it.
00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:24.160
The other one was we're talking about the burrito today.
00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:24.880
Oh, the burrito.
00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:27.519
Yeah, burrito all day, like this sort of like core thing we ran.
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:33.920
We were talking to Money Mike about like how many how many burritos we putting out there a week, and he was giving me some numbers.
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:40.720
And um so in linear feat, we sell 7.2 miles of burrito a year.
00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:42.240
So I think that's important to know.
00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:43.119
That's good to know.
00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:51.039
Yeah, I'm thinking about it in percentages because I know that like the 80-20 rule applies in the kitchen, and 80% of everything that goes out is a breakfast burrito.
00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:57.839
No matter how good all the other food is on the on the menu, it's just that's uh it's a it's a become a community staple.
00:18:58.160 --> 00:18:59.119
A community staple.
00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:17.359
So yeah, I think it's but that's a neat thing that to be established as a community staple, as a community member, and and I know one thinking Santa Cruz is so insular and little just part from our geography and what's meaningful to feel like you're it's small enough that you have impact.
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:27.440
You know, you have impact in a place and having four cafes, and I think people feel I think there's a sense of a little bit of Santa Cruz pride about about Cat and Cloud.
00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:30.720
Yeah, it extends beyond that's cool, yeah, which I think is really cool.
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:32.160
Yeah, it's something to be proud of.
00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:39.599
It I think we're in that zone where we are, you know, attached to one of the things that someone would do if they came to Santa Cruz, which is which is rat.
00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:40.799
Yeah, it's super cool.
00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:42.319
Yeah, I I I love that.
00:19:42.640 --> 00:20:01.440
Well, I think another question to kind of piggyback off something earlier that you were saying as sort of being established in specialty coffee, like you personally, you must have a lot of contact with people who or I've talked to a lot of people, and obviously you have uh significantly more who have found specialty coffee.
00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:03.839
My Rolodex is just gigantic.
00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:08.799
You still have a Rolodex, you fill out those cards and organize them.
00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:15.920
The people who are finding specialty coffee or who got into coffee through YouTube with some of the the OG Chris Bacchus stuff.
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:17.200
And just like, yeah, what's that?
00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:18.880
What's that like?
00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:19.920
It's cool.
00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:20.720
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:33.119
It's it's it's really funny because it it happened the other day when I was uh I was making a cappuccino and this woman walks up and she was waiting for her drink, and it was the cappuccino was for her.
00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:34.240
I don't even know why I was on bar.
00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:35.680
I can't even remember.
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:41.519
I worked bar this morning too, uh, for for a second because the POS system decided to eat itself.
00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:48.000
So I just I happened to be there at open, and then I noticed the line building up and nothing was moving.
00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:49.119
I was like, what's going on?
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:51.519
And it's just everything, it wouldn't take payment.
00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:52.400
Oh, geez.
00:20:52.559 --> 00:21:08.160
So yeah, so I was like, okay, cool, we're giving everyone free coffee until we get this thing figured out, and I'll jump on bar so you you guys can get on the phone and like talk to Jorge or Serena or whoever was on the other end of the line and get it figured out.
00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:09.680
Anyway, I don't know why I was on bar the other day.
00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:13.440
And it's like this girl's like, this is gonna sound weird, but uh, are you the guy from YouTube?
00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:14.799
And it's like, yeah.
00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:17.440
Are you that YouTube guy?
00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:32.160
Yeah, I mean, those videos were a um a reflection uh or they were my pushback on an overly complicated, an overcomplication of specialty coffee for new people.
00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:44.240
Because the that the era that those were made in was the you know what people will look back on as the pretentious hipster era of specialty coffee, where it's just like this so incredibly advanced thing that you couldn't possibly understand.
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:51.119
And like you can't make it if you don't have a mustache and a$300 apron, you know, you might as well just fucking try to do something else.
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:53.920
And that that was it, yeah, just watch from over there.
00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:55.519
Yeah, it's just no, let me handle this.
00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:56.960
I'm a professional barista.
00:21:57.279 --> 00:21:59.039
Yeah, I'm 23 and I know it all.
00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:07.119
Um And that was that was part of that was part of the the attitude that was sprinkled throughout the culture.
00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:12.480
And my whole take has always been no, no.
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:30.079
You know, if we 'cause I remember fighting tooth and nail to get the people that I cared about or people in my sphere to understand how special this thing was that was specialty coffee and why it was different and why they should maybe care.
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:37.599
And my thought was like, cool, like if the industries, if more people partake in it, everyone's better.
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:38.240
Yeah, everybody.
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:39.359
From A to Z.
00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:42.799
Like there's nobody who loses by that happening.
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:46.640
Like specialty coffee becoming more popular, nobody loses.
00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:55.440
It's like, do you want a world in which you, you know, you're on vacation and you just can't find like decent coffee?
00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:59.599
It's like, I would just love to be able to get reasonable coffee everywhere I go, you know what I mean?
00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:02.799
Do you want less options for delicious things?
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:04.079
Like, what's going on?
00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:10.720
So and it's like being pretentious and standoffish is not the way to get people excited about the thing that you love.
00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:11.200
Right.
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:16.799
So I'm just like, cool, how can we take these you know brewing methods or things like that aren't a mystery anymore?
00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:17.039
Right.
00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:19.359
It's like latte art's not a mystery anymore.
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:22.480
It's like everybody can do it, it's just a common normal thing.
00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:27.440
But then it wasn't, it was something that was special, and it was like just kind of like the cherry on top, this little bit extra.
00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:37.839
So it's like, how do we take these things, simplify them down just to their essence, and then just put that out there to help everybody hopefully try to get better.
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:40.880
Yeah, and it was, you know, I that was just the intention.
00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:46.480
And then it's like I found out later that people are like, oh yeah, we use that in our training program, and I was like, oh, cool.
00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:47.680
Like they're like, is that cool?
00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:48.720
I'm like, yeah, that's awesome.
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:50.079
That's like that's the whole idea.
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:50.720
That's the whole point.
00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:54.480
You know, if it if it works, let's let's run it.
00:23:54.720 --> 00:24:09.599
Yeah, well, I think it it really I think that spirit of welcoming and inclusion and accessibility to specialty coffee really shines through in the culture of Cat and Cloud still today.
00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:19.680
But I think you also have a knack for articulating very clearly and educating people very concisely on like these are the steps and this is what you do.
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:20.079
Yeah.
00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:33.519
And like this is the even I when you explain components of the machines that you're talking about, whether it's grinder or what you you know, espresso machine or whatever, you definitely have a knack for distilling it down very simply and clearly.
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:34.720
So I think that also.
00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:38.400
I think you're right.
00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:43.200
That's something that is one of my that is for sure one of my strengths.
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:47.440
And yeah, I'm I've I don't know.
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:59.119
I think there's some, yeah, there's some part of that that's like an innate ability, and then some part of it is also just again, I think born out of seeing people do it the complicated way and just thinking, damn, this doesn't need to be this hard.
00:24:59.359 --> 00:24:59.920
This is not that hard.
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:00.880
This is not that hard.
00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:01.599
Yeah.
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:03.359
And yeah.
00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:05.039
Yeah, that's a tone that comes through too.
00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:06.880
It's just like, oh, this is not a hard thing.
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:08.960
This is what's happening, this is why it does it.
00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:13.759
But yeah, I found that to be a a a cool skill of yours, too.
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:19.200
So keep it simple, and you know, then then you can choose your own adventure from there.
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:25.599
We offer a coffee subscription, and there's a couple different paths you can walk down.
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:28.240
Make cappuccinos on your Linnea Micro at home.
00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:35.920
You can get the answer, one of our flagship blends on Repeat and have an espresso that's so easy to dial in, it should be illegal.
00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:37.119
It's incredible with milk.
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:41.519
It's like a chewing on nougat that somebody accidentally sprinkled berries on top of.
00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:47.839
This is what we use for all our milk-based beverages in the cafe, and we have it on drip every day.
00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:49.759
Or maybe you like to mix it up.
00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:53.920
Maybe you spent five racks on your Weber Workshop EG1.
00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:55.440
I get it.
00:25:55.759 --> 00:25:59.279
Fire up a roaster's choice subscription and you can taste the rainbow.
00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:02.880
We've got different regions, different processing methods, different varieties.
00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:10.400
These are the copies that we love that rotate so you never get bored and always have something fresh in the hopper.
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:13.759
We envision a world in which businesses put culture first.
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:17.680
And this is the world that you're helping support by choosing Cat and Cloud for your subscription.
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:23.119
There's a link in the episode description, or you can just go to cattencloud.com slash subscription.
00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:24.559
We appreciate you.
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:38.960
Well, I mean, I guess speaking of choose your own adventure from there, 10 years causes you to look back, take stock of what's happened, reflect on where you are, and then what's next.
00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:41.200
You know, it's kind of like where where do you where do you go?
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:43.039
And I see you guys have been working on that.
00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:49.519
Yeah, and I like the way that made me think of something, something else too.
00:26:49.839 --> 00:27:08.640
Um because we've been in these in these planning meetings, and they're again, it's hard to talk about this stuff in a way where you're not um not seeming like you're um creating some sort of value hierarchy for this person's more important than that person.
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:23.279
But in the in the term of the like the 10 years and the journey, there are I can't overstate the importance of a few key people who have been able like running a small business is a fucking mess, dude.
00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:25.359
It's like the it's the worst idea ever.
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:29.599
You know, it's like a it's a terrible, it's just you should absolutely not do it.
00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:35.279
Like there's so many other careers you could have where you can just make money, chill out, or like chill a little bit more.
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:37.599
Like, you know, there's proven paths, right?
00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:57.279
Like um, and because the three of us as you know owners, like we have this idea, and then you know, you see this with personal projects, anything you do, like you've got the idea, and the idea is perfect and shiny, and then you've got your skill level, which is always much lower than the idea.
00:27:57.359 --> 00:28:06.160
And like despite the fact that Jared Charles and I had decades of experience in specialty coffee, we had absolutely zero years of experience running a business.
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:14.400
You know, I mean we'd done the jobs of you know, managing cafes or managing uh wholesale programs or finances.
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:23.440
But there's a difference between doing that job and running the whole thing and like all of the all the stuff that you don't know, which you don't know.
00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:34.400
Yeah, we really talked about that last week where you coming into business ownership, you've had an incredible amount of experience that between the three of you that set you up for success.
00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:34.880
Yeah.
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:40.799
But even still But even still, we just first we just screwed all the time.
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:41.039
Yeah.
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:48.400
Like I can't even begin to count the amount of really ridiculously bad decisions that we made.
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:49.200
So curious.
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:59.920
And then there's a there are a few people who despite all of those bad decisions, have said, like, okay, I can live with that.
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:02.240
I I believe in where this is going.
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:05.519
I'm I'm down for this journey.
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:08.720
Let's do this, you know.
00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:12.480
Um like Mark's definitely one of those people.
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:12.880
100%.
00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:14.880
Herman is definitely one of those people.
00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:17.920
It's just like, I mean, Herman got laid off, dude.
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:21.920
We we we laid off Herman during the pandemic.
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:28.240
He was just kind of starting to like it was like pre-his, you know, leadership journey.
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:31.279
He wasn't, you know, he was cool because he's always Herman, right?
00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:33.039
But he like wasn't who he is now.
00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:36.079
Um but so we laid him off.
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:58.559
And then when things started to settle down and he came back, is when we had, you know, and I think he told us it was a it was a bad decision too, because it was like we were turning over, we were turning over some some leadership, and then it was Herman and Levi, and we're just like we're just like, okay, you guys are are running the show, and this is the way you're gonna run it.
00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:03.359
And Herman and Levi were like, all right, let's fucking do this.
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:07.039
And then this was just like a few weeks ago where Herman's like, remember when you guys did that?
00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:08.880
Like, bad idea.
00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:11.359
Super bad idea.
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:14.480
Yeah, if Herman just walked into this TDF, awesome.
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:18.240
But um there's all these bumps, you know what I mean?
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:36.720
And and people who are willing to ride the bumps, not get frustrated, because I get how like I've been a part of growing companies, and I get how easy it is to get demotivated or to crave that structure that a more well-established company has.
00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:43.119
Like there is some safety, security, predictability, like you don't you're not creating the systems, they just exist.
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:51.200
And you don't have to like wander through the fog while you wait for ownership and leadership to create all the systems.
00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:56.319
So it takes a special kind of person, a special mentality to to run with a business like that.
00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:12.720
Um but and you know, one one of the things that Charles, again, he's like super insightful with bringing this stuff up, that he'll point to the people that are in these like really sought-after positions, like like Dulce and Green Buying.
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:17.119
It's like it's not really that easy to get a green buying position in specialty coffee.
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:20.160
And there's there are some key components to it.
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:23.599
It's like you gotta like work really hard to understand it.
00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:44.240
Like you gotta time, effort, yeah, energy, like all of those things matter, but then you also have to stick around, you have to be there long enough to be able to like grow in those positions and like snatch them for lack of a better term, as they become available.
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:44.799
Right.
00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:49.440
And it takes a certain amount of grit to ride the the, you know.
00:31:49.599 --> 00:32:01.119
And again, it's interesting to say it as we're 10 years in, but it's like every year that we go into, we're still on the small business roller coaster because as we do things we've never done before, it's the first time we've ever done them, you know?
00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:10.720
Yeah, but I think, you know, I I think that's just common for small business, and I think every place has their their own their own shit that they're working through.
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:19.599
But I think in a small business that affords an opportunity, you have to ride the bumps out, but I think you end up getting more ownership in the long run.
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:22.720
And people who the some people were like, how do you want to engage with your work?
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:27.039
Do you want to just like I want to clock in, I want to clock out, I don't really want to think about it.
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:35.599
I just it's just work is this one thing, and then it's um I I and then but I'm more focused on this other other portion of my life.
00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:47.839
But there's other people who are willing to endure some of that uncomf discomfort or struggle or those questions and challenges, but feeling like they're working towards something.
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:49.839
Yeah, that's meaningful for a lot of people.
00:32:50.160 --> 00:33:15.119
Yeah, and I think that's that is a real that's a common shared sentiment, and it's also a huge gamble because and that's where I'm struggling to think of the the exact question or or framing, but it's it's not uncommon that people will ask me, like, hey, I've been at my job and like this is happening and that is happening, and I'm not sure if I want to stay.
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:21.359
I don't know if they have the best intentions in mind, and it's like this happened and it was weird.
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:23.759
And there's really there's like a couple questions.
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:30.079
It's like one, like, are like where do you stand in in the in the fabric of the culture?
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:31.680
You gotta be honest with yourself.
00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:34.799
It's like, are you a linchpin or are you not?
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:40.240
And a lot of people think that they are when they're really not, and that is that is hard to say.
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:46.160
Um, do you trust the people that are running the company and their intentions?
00:33:46.319 --> 00:33:53.599
And the intentions are super important because they're gonna fuck up and mess up, like nobody's perfect, and they're gonna have a big are they big goose heads hard.
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:55.359
Is there heart in the right place, right?
00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:59.279
It's like, do you feel like you're gonna get screwed over?
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:16.000
And then like, you know, because one of the things that's interesting is it's like you're like depending on how you're framing it, if we're talking in the in the context of a career, which you know, there's a there's a clear distinction between a job and a career.
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:30.559
Um if you're talking about a career, Jared was talking about this last week, where there's like some sort of scale is necessary and able to provide something that's that you could like couch as a career.
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:48.559
And like that doesn't mean you are not a professional if you work somewhere small that can't afford you a career, like you can still be a professional barista, professional roaster, all those things, but it's like you're gonna have a hard time making that a career if your business top line revenue is only a million bucks, you know?
00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:51.679
That has to get split up with all right, all the different ways.
00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:52.159
Yeah.
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:53.599
So where was I going with that?
00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:54.079
Oh, yeah.
00:34:54.239 --> 00:35:11.679
If you're thinking about a career and that scale, one of the things, and you you see this, I don't know how common it is, but it's there's definitely a buzz about it because it's happening more and more, where it's like coffee companies will get to a certain size, and then the next thing is like, okay, there's three paths.
00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:34.880
We can either stay here, grow incrementally and slowly, which you know, you have to be in a certain financial position to be able to absorb that, or we can sell to like a private equity thing, and then house is gonna get cleaned, or we're gonna grow aggressively, and then still maybe house is gonna get cleaned because and this is like absolutely true.
00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:40.800
The things that got you to the scale that you're at now are not the things that are gonna 3x that scale.
00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:43.519
Like it's just it's it's different.
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:46.000
Like, and that is true.
00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:49.199
So that's why I say it is a it is a gamble.
00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:52.639
Like you're really you're betting on your company, but you're betting on yourself too.
00:35:52.719 --> 00:36:12.400
That's like I can grow and perform enough to meet the needs of this organization that's gonna go from like, you know, I'll use numbers because it's easy to quantify, but it's like, you know, five mil to ten mil to twenty to forty to thirty plus, whatever that is, because those those things aren't the same, you know what I mean?
00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:18.639
Um so it's not like you can be static while the company grows, like you gotta you gotta get in there.
00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:22.239
So it it is a little bit of a little bit of a bet.
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:22.559
Right.
00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:28.239
But yeah, and they're just like maybe ownership, what are they connected to that?
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:38.159
Presenting that culture or that identity uh, you know, when they are confronted with those larger decisions about growing, what are they willing to give up and what are they holding on to?
00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:44.239
Whether that's yeah, vision owner, you know, vision ownership, uh decision making, it's all that stuff.
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:45.440
Yeah, it's really interesting.
00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:57.440
I I um I I don't talk about this a lot, but I think it's just a useful like real analogy or or real like experience.
00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:05.679
So it's like a cut my chops at Ritual in the city, and then was working for Verve here and during the time when they were expanding into LA.
00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:11.840
And I remember telling Colby, who is the one of the founders and the current CEO who I have a good relationship with.
00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:12.559
We still talk.
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:18.239
Um I was like, dude, we're going to LA, like, I'll go, I'll set up the stores, I'll do the things, da-da-da-da-da.
00:37:18.800 --> 00:37:26.000
And what ultimately ended up happening was I was not chosen to do that, somebody else did it.
00:37:26.239 --> 00:37:38.239
And they opened a handful of stores in Los Angeles, and there was like a short period of time where I was just like kind of like miffed about the whole thing.
00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:45.199
But when I think about it now, I'm just like, yeah, I would not have been able to do that.
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:47.760
And I don't think it's like a mental capacity thing.
00:37:47.840 --> 00:38:01.840
I just think like knowing myself, the things that I like to do, I was despite my good standing in the company, and I hadn't done anything to make anybody think that I would like, you know, I've always represented the the brand well, like worked hard, done the whole thing.
00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:10.400
And so it's like despite all those things, I was still a bad choice to do this new thing that the company was going to do.
00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:20.719
And it's hard to see in the moment, but I'm just like, oh, the decision to not pick me for that was absolutely the right decision, and that's something that's interesting to sit with, you know?
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:21.119
Yeah.
00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:25.519
Um, different things require different needs, so yeah, yeah.
00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:26.880
Dude, work is a trip.
00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:29.360
Yeah, like work is crazy.
00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:32.800
Um I know it I think in career too.
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:43.920
Uh I don't know if this plays into it at all, but as you have family or things like that and have done things for a certain amount of time, there's a it can be a reassessment of what you do and where you're going.
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:56.320
And I mean, having a kid is the biggest thing, I think, for me, that's or I know for me that is like changed the how I look at the long term and like the arc of a career.
00:38:56.719 --> 00:39:01.679
Because it's like, is I mean, well, you have kids, it's just it's the ultimate responsibility.
00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:02.000
Right.
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:07.039
There's no other level of responsibility that's higher than that.
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:14.400
And you know, it is laughable when I think about what I felt responsibility was before.
00:39:14.559 --> 00:39:20.639
Because it's like even when life was really hard and I had to do this and da-da-da-da, it's just like it didn't really matter.
00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:25.679
Like it was always going to be fine, and you have just so much flexibility.
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:26.320
Oh, yeah.
00:39:28.719 --> 00:39:32.880
My family just went out of town for a couple days, and I there's no one in the house.
00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:42.880
It's the weirdest feeling and the the independence of just being like, I could I could just make a decision and do it without a committee to be involved.
00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:55.440
Uh yeah, I can really resonate with you hear these stories about people who really don't like their job, but they make a certain amount of money, and life in that sense is more or less comfortable.
00:39:55.760 --> 00:40:07.119
And they have a family, the golden handcuffs, and like I understand why it's hard to just throw it all out and say, I'm gonna get after it and do this new interesting thing.
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:12.159
Yeah, because there's just more it it just feels like a deeper sense of of responsibility.
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:18.239
Um but I mean I did that.
00:40:18.320 --> 00:40:22.239
It's it was pretty scary, pretty wild, and luckily I was able to make the shift.
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:29.440
But yeah, that's a pretty you can see how people don't it's yeah, it's it's interesting.
00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:42.239
But I mean I don't back to Cat and Cloud, despite all of the frustrations that come with doing something like this, if you're zooming out so far, it's hard to be anything other than grateful.
00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:45.440
And you know, if you think about it on a good day, you're like, wow, I'm really lucky.
00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:47.119
Like this is kind of cool.
00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:53.280
Um 24-year-old me would be hyped.
00:40:53.679 --> 00:40:54.639
Right, yeah, absolutely.
00:40:55.039 --> 00:41:01.440
If you time travel and was like, there's 24-year-old Chris, and it's like, oh, let me show you this roastery, oh let me show you these cafes.
00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:06.239
Yeah, like here, let's go just eat a cappuccino, uh that blah blah blah.
00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:09.760
It's just oh, that's kind of crazy, you know.
00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:11.280
And who knows?
00:41:11.360 --> 00:41:23.440
Like, I didn't really answer your question that like where the future is, because it's like you know, it's an ongoing conversation, but wherever that goes, there's still this cool like, oh wow, there's there's something going on here, you know.
00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:29.119
Um yeah, I mean the future, I think the future is is is bright for Cat and Cloud.
00:41:29.199 --> 00:41:43.519
I think for me, coming in and and evaluating what things Cat and Cloud has going for it is very exciting because at its at its roots and at its heart, it all the as you say, all those boxes are kind of checked.
00:41:43.679 --> 00:42:07.519
It feels like the kind of team and people that you have working there, the quality of the product that you're making, and then I think also the energy and the spirit and the mission that you're trying to put out there in the world, those are all things to feel good about and things that you can feel proud of and and things that can drive you forward into the future.
00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:14.239
And so um as opposed to like not having you know, missing one of those big P those pieces changed a lot.
00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:26.480
Oh man, the team, you know, don't have that core team of people who have run ridden those waves or have been those the those keys pieces you were talking about, not putting out a product that's something you could be proud of.
00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:33.199
I mean, not having any of those things seems so would be hard to would be hard to make and shift and do.
00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:37.760
So having those things and then looking to the future with those and your on your belt is is solid.
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:45.519
Yeah, and then the one thing that I would want to end with is that every organization can have those things.
00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:54.960
You know, one of the things that is this is really prevalent in the cafe world, where it's just like, oh, you guys have such great people.
00:42:55.039 --> 00:42:58.880
What are you gonna do when they all leave?
00:42:59.119 --> 00:43:42.239
And it's like there's this mindset that there's this finite number of amazing people in this world, and just for some reason, like in this cafe that employs, you know, 12 to 20 people that we just happen to have all of the only good people in town that are just working here right now, and when they leave, there's just not it's like no, there's there are people with incredible potential everywhere, and they're waiting for a place where they feel like they can do their best work and contribute to something that's awesome, and like maybe they don't, maybe they're a little rough around the edges in some areas, like service hospitality, all the other things that come with like you know, just being new to the workforce.
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:49.920
It's like, you know, we can't expect young people just entering the workforce to like automatically understand or know all of this stuff.
00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:53.920
But it it's it's like, yeah, we have all these people that I've mentioned.
00:43:54.000 --> 00:44:03.039
There are versions of those people in your town, in your neighborhood, and you can create businesses that don't have to be of any particular size.
00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:07.039
They can be small, they can be huge, they can be in between, and you can do the same things.
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:18.800
And that's like to me, that's what the that's the most exciting part about what we stand for, which is not just our own brand, but what the world could be.
00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:32.079
More businesses operating like this, and like like you don't want to go anywhere and have a bad experience, like you know like we talked about with coffee, but it's just like overall, it's like wouldn't it be cooler if the butcher shop you went to was awesome?
00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:38.880
And the grocery store you went to had like people that were just stoked out of their minds to be there, and like all those things make up the fabric of your day.
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:43.440
So it's it's like these things are available to ever to everybody.
00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:50.960
You just gotta do a little like mining, refining, take some intentionality, but yeah, it's it's there.
00:44:51.199 --> 00:44:55.440
I think you said it, and I think that's as we look forward with with the podcast too.
00:44:55.599 --> 00:45:11.760
I think the intent is to share more of those things about what we are doing and not feel like it's a secret that we're holding on to, but the good vibes you want to share, just like you all have been sharing specialty coffee and how to connect to that.
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:15.199
So anyway, excited to see where things go next.
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:16.960
Jared, we're we're missing you today.
00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:18.079
Yeah, Jared, thanks a lot.
00:45:18.239 --> 00:45:19.760
We'll just end with we'll end with that.
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:21.519
You can catch Jared next week.
00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:23.840
Yeah, you guys tune in next week with Jared.
00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:24.880
All right, well, thanks y'all.
00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:28.400
Thanks, Chris, for your candidness and uh openness.
00:45:28.639 --> 00:45:30.480
I'm gonna go make some cold foam word.
00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:32.079
All right, peace out.
00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:35.760
All right, everyone, that's the podcast for this week.
00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:47.199
If you've got something culture, coffee, or business related that's tickling your brain and you want us to shine a light on it, you can send us an email to podcast at catandcloud.com.
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:49.519
There's also a podcast page on our website.
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:54.960
If you scroll to the bottom of that page, you can record a voice message for us with your questions or comments.
00:45:55.119 --> 00:46:01.360
But be warned, we will play your beautiful voice on our podcast unless you tell us not to.
00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:06.239
Our website is also a hub for all things cat and cloud, including coffee.
00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:14.159
If you're looking for somewhere to start, you don't know where that is, the answer, our flagship blend is a great go-to coffee.
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:20.719
We use it for all of our milk-based espresso beverages in the cafes, and we always have it on as a brewed coffee option.
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:24.719
It's super easy to pull for all you home espresso wizards.
00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:37.519
We've also got a rotating menu of single origin offerings if you want to get into something a little bit more wild and explore some of the different characteristics that these special coffees have.
00:46:38.239 --> 00:46:40.719
So check it out, catandcloud.com.
00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:42.239
Appreciate you spending your time with us.
00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:43.679
We hope you're having an amazing week.
00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:44.719
Peace.
