WEBVTT
00:00:01.409 --> 00:00:04.259
Have you ever noticed how quickly stress can snowball?
00:00:04.259 --> 00:00:12.990
When your mind grabs onto a single negative thought, one moment, you're tired, and the next you're convinced you're failing, falling behind, or not enough.
00:00:13.009 --> 00:00:17.658
What if changing that internal dialogue could reverse that entire spiral?
00:00:18.179 --> 00:00:24.875
Today, I'm joined by someone who has spent over 40 years helping people break out of those spirals and reclaim their lives.
00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:44.869
Judith Belmont is a psychotherapist, speaker and author of 11 books, including her newest 110 CBD tips and tools, and she spent her career teaching people how to use their own thoughts as tools for resilience rather than triggers for burnout.
00:00:46.158 --> 00:00:48.497
Welcome to break free from the Burnout.
00:00:48.768 --> 00:00:53.237
I'm your host, Dr. Anastasia Chopelas, physicist turned energy healer.
00:00:53.688 --> 00:00:59.237
I'm here to help you make the quantum shifts to release the hidden blocks to your success.
00:00:59.658 --> 00:01:02.027
Your next breakthrough starts now.
00:01:02.344 --> 00:01:03.575
So welcome, Judy.
00:01:03.575 --> 00:01:05.045
I'm so happy you're here.
00:01:05.885 --> 00:01:07.594
Well, thank you very much for inviting me.
00:01:07.685 --> 00:01:09.275
You're most welcome.
00:01:09.275 --> 00:01:13.894
Everyone has such a personal story about how they found their way into helping others.
00:01:14.525 --> 00:01:19.125
What led you to CBT and the work you've done for so many years?
00:01:20.444 --> 00:01:32.355
I was always interested in why people do things and always like a sensitive child, and so I never doubted I'd be a therapist, never doubted it.
00:01:32.385 --> 00:01:34.334
It's always been my mission and my path.
00:01:34.814 --> 00:01:36.724
and then, I was very shy.
00:01:37.349 --> 00:01:39.209
I needed a lot of tools myself.
00:01:39.670 --> 00:01:46.150
but I really lucked out because after I went to grad school, I have a master's in clinical psychology.
00:01:46.599 --> 00:01:52.930
One of my first jobs was a part-time assertiveness training instructor.
00:01:53.510 --> 00:02:04.370
I was working at a youth guidance center in Massachusetts for 25 hours a week, and I needed another 15 hours to have my 40 hours, and I lucked into this job.
00:02:04.370 --> 00:02:06.560
They said master's in psychology.
00:02:06.829 --> 00:02:09.889
So I, this was back in the seventies.
00:02:10.189 --> 00:02:25.425
In the late seventies, so I. Answered the newspaper ad, of course this is way before computers and, I didn't really know what assertiveness training was, but I thought, they want a degree in psychology, so it must be something like I'm doing.
00:02:25.514 --> 00:02:39.318
I don't know, never even heard of the assertiveness training before, but it turned out, it changed my life because I learned the importance of practical hands-on tips and tools, which led me.
00:02:39.810 --> 00:02:47.550
In the rest of my career, in my practice, as well as speaking, as well as eventually writing books.
00:02:48.256 --> 00:02:49.216
Beautiful.
00:02:49.216 --> 00:02:49.665
So.
00:02:50.776 --> 00:03:00.406
As you were talking, I, I could identify myself 'cause I was also extremely shy and I think one year in high school I said maybe 10 words in the school.
00:03:02.686 --> 00:03:04.786
So I, I totally get it.
00:03:04.786 --> 00:03:11.915
And I'm also sensitive to other people, so having these tools probably would've helped me a lot.
00:03:12.355 --> 00:03:13.170
A lot more.
00:03:13.170 --> 00:03:13.230
Yeah.
00:03:13.260 --> 00:03:14.670
Definitely would've helped me.
00:03:14.670 --> 00:03:20.170
But that's why I'm so passionate about it, because, I wasn't naturally outgoing.
00:03:20.170 --> 00:03:23.140
I wasn't naturally confident when I was younger.
00:03:23.501 --> 00:03:23.591
Mm-hmm.
00:03:23.830 --> 00:03:26.830
And I learned to develop it through tools.
00:03:26.980 --> 00:03:27.040
Yeah.
00:03:27.221 --> 00:03:42.350
And that first job that I had, which was this part-time job that I just wanted to help make ends meet, ended up being life changing because I didn't really learn this stuff in my clinical psychology graduate program.
00:03:42.561 --> 00:03:49.881
They were more psychoanalytic and all about your past and whatever, and this was very refreshing to me.
00:03:50.151 --> 00:03:57.980
I'm always interested in knowing about the past to understand and have insight, but that doesn't necessarily help you today.
00:03:58.610 --> 00:04:02.871
And so that really became a light switch in my head.
00:04:03.414 --> 00:04:16.975
And so before we talk about burnout specifically, let's inform, our listeners to help understand what exactly is CBT and why it's such a powerful tool.
00:04:17.725 --> 00:04:20.935
Well, CBT is stands for cognitive behavior therapy.
00:04:21.384 --> 00:04:22.704
Cognitive means mind.
00:04:22.704 --> 00:04:32.470
Behavior is behavior, and basically the premise of cognitive therapy is, the quality of your thoughts determine the quality of your life.
00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:41.860
If you think in healthy ways, in positive ways, you're going to be more optimistic and more resilient.
00:04:41.980 --> 00:04:52.670
And if you think in irrational ways and ways that you have, what's called cognitive distortions, you're going to not have such a happy life.
00:04:53.339 --> 00:05:00.189
so for example, if I. I think, I'll, I'm such a failure, I'll never make it.
00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:02.769
That's filled with cognitive distortions.
00:05:03.865 --> 00:05:04.675
Failure.
00:05:04.675 --> 00:05:07.435
I'm labeling all or nothing thinking.
00:05:07.615 --> 00:05:13.105
So I'm identifying some cognitive distortions, some unhealthy thought habits.
00:05:13.105 --> 00:05:13.194
Mm-hmm.
00:05:13.644 --> 00:05:17.545
That create a lot of misery and a lot of depression and anxiety.
00:05:17.935 --> 00:05:25.375
However, if I said to myself, I examine self-talk and I did what's called cognitive restructuring.
00:05:26.740 --> 00:05:30.610
Up until now, I've had a hard time feeling successful.
00:05:31.089 --> 00:05:32.889
That's a lot more optimistic.
00:05:32.920 --> 00:05:34.389
That's a lot more positive.
00:05:34.660 --> 00:05:36.550
There's something you can do about it.
00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:40.269
It's not fortune telling that I'm always gonna be that way.
00:05:40.899 --> 00:05:45.730
It's having more control over your thinking, so it's not so irrational.
00:05:46.089 --> 00:05:46.360
Yeah.
00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:50.439
So it's not, not labeling yourself as one thing or another.
00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:53.709
Exactly, and then you don't label other people either.
00:05:53.889 --> 00:05:55.089
Oh, he's so lazy.
00:05:55.250 --> 00:05:56.360
like parents will do that.
00:05:56.360 --> 00:05:56.990
They're their kids.
00:05:56.990 --> 00:05:58.430
Oh, I have such a lazy kid.
00:05:58.430 --> 00:05:59.399
I have, whatever.
00:05:59.610 --> 00:06:01.295
It's, it's not healthy to label.
00:06:01.295 --> 00:06:04.350
It's that kid is so bad instead of that's bad behavior.
00:06:04.350 --> 00:06:06.600
They sit, they label the kid as bad.
00:06:07.439 --> 00:06:07.829
Absolutely.
00:06:07.829 --> 00:06:08.459
You a bad boy.
00:06:09.105 --> 00:06:11.925
But I wouldn't even label behavior as bad.
00:06:12.134 --> 00:06:16.185
It's not healthy behavior, it's not effective behavior.
00:06:16.454 --> 00:06:20.324
But the judgmental thing is in our heads and.
00:06:20.850 --> 00:06:33.709
It is, not really very helpful, so just identifying the way that we think can improve the quality of our lives, and we can also identify it in others, and we can help others.
00:06:33.889 --> 00:06:43.810
Let's say you're a boss and your employee says, She only cares about herself and I can't stand my coworker.
00:06:43.860 --> 00:06:49.079
let's, I'm just giving an example, and you might rephrase that as a role model.
00:06:49.410 --> 00:06:55.410
Sounds like you're really frustrated that she's not as helpful to you as you hope she would be.
00:06:56.370 --> 00:07:00.990
How does that help your modeling healthy ways of thinking?
00:07:01.814 --> 00:07:12.884
Well, it sounds like that person that said it that way is taking responsibility for his or her own behavior and allowing the other person to be who they are.
00:07:14.235 --> 00:07:14.444
Right.
00:07:14.625 --> 00:07:21.314
In a more healthy way, but in the other way it's judgemental and it's compartmentalizing someone as all or nothing.
00:07:21.314 --> 00:07:26.444
They're, they're lazy, they're bad, and even something like, oh, she stresses me out.
00:07:26.920 --> 00:07:28.629
my coworker stresses me out.
00:07:28.990 --> 00:07:29.889
Well, guess what?
00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:32.529
we're not talking about abuse or criminal behavior.
00:07:32.740 --> 00:07:34.120
No one can really do that.
00:07:34.779 --> 00:07:36.579
I am stressed by her.
00:07:37.209 --> 00:07:40.850
I am stressed when she speaks in a stern voice.
00:07:41.009 --> 00:07:47.154
being specific is much healthier rather than being a victim, you're a victor.
00:07:48.449 --> 00:07:54.800
Exactly when people tell me, oh, she made me so mad, and I said, oh, so you gave your power away, did you?
00:07:55.850 --> 00:07:56.540
And they go, what?
00:07:58.069 --> 00:07:59.029
Right, exactly.
00:07:59.209 --> 00:08:03.980
People, one of the songs when I was growing up was Blood, blood, sweat, and Tears.
00:08:03.980 --> 00:08:05.959
You make me so very happy.
00:08:06.259 --> 00:08:06.500
Yeah.
00:08:06.500 --> 00:08:10.759
And I thought, oh, I hope I meet someone that makes me so very happy.
00:08:10.759 --> 00:08:11.990
And what a great song.
00:08:12.290 --> 00:08:16.129
Well, as I grew older, I realized that's a very codependent song.
00:08:16.339 --> 00:08:16.670
It is.
00:08:16.670 --> 00:08:18.620
You're, you make me happy.
00:08:18.620 --> 00:08:21.410
You can make me suicidal, you can make me anything.
00:08:21.740 --> 00:08:23.509
So, how would you rephrase?
00:08:23.509 --> 00:08:25.670
I would, I would ask like my.
00:08:26.180 --> 00:08:29.089
Clients or people like at a training or a workshop?
00:08:30.079 --> 00:08:31.430
How can you rephrase it?
00:08:32.450 --> 00:08:33.889
I am happy when I'm with you.
00:08:33.950 --> 00:08:34.309
Okay.
00:08:34.309 --> 00:08:39.019
Maybe it wouldn't make a hit record, but that's more accurate.
00:08:39.049 --> 00:08:46.649
So we grew up with a lot of irrational thoughts like Ray Charles when I was very young, he was a kind of even before my time.
00:08:47.470 --> 00:08:48.909
I can't stop loving you.
00:08:49.389 --> 00:08:50.110
Well, guess what?
00:08:50.139 --> 00:08:51.039
That's not true.
00:08:51.580 --> 00:08:53.169
It's hard to stop loving you.
00:08:54.294 --> 00:09:01.414
I am trying to stop loving you, but that made a gold record, so I guess he knew something, but that's not exactly very rational.
00:09:01.865 --> 00:09:13.684
I think what you're saying is that we are bombarded with sounds and messages and sound bites that are really detrimental to our healthy way of thinking and Right.
00:09:13.914 --> 00:09:16.195
what's, what's widely accepted as.
00:09:16.674 --> 00:09:21.445
This is reality is actually not so healthy.
00:09:21.445 --> 00:09:30.570
So being able to be a thought detective, and identify some of the irrational shoulds that we have in our society.
00:09:30.605 --> 00:09:30.965
Mm-hmm.
00:09:31.044 --> 00:09:31.054
Mm-hmm.
00:09:31.169 --> 00:09:39.179
Or maybe we grew up with, we can just be more of a, as I said, victor, rather than a victim.
00:09:39.690 --> 00:09:47.549
A lot of times people think in victim ways and they think they're at the mercy of other people and they're actually not.
00:09:47.639 --> 00:09:50.309
It's a choice, but a lot of times people don't realize it.
00:09:51.044 --> 00:10:04.538
And so CBT helps us understand some of these illogical ways of thinking, so you can choose healthier ways to narrate your situation and narrate your life.
00:10:04.898 --> 00:10:11.587
When I talk about those kinds of things in my programs, I talk about the energy of what they're saying.
00:10:12.097 --> 00:10:17.107
Because when somebody says, you make me so mad, you're lowering your energy.
00:10:17.138 --> 00:10:18.908
'cause you're giving your power away.
00:10:19.628 --> 00:10:28.388
And when the other person irritates you on purpose to watch you get mad, then they're stealing your energy.
00:10:29.327 --> 00:10:31.707
it's all negative h. all negative.
00:10:32.008 --> 00:10:32.788
Yeah, exactly.
00:10:33.942 --> 00:10:38.753
A lot of times people think, yeah, think positively, things are gonna work out.
00:10:39.472 --> 00:10:46.163
Sometimes things really don't work out and you can still work out even if things don't work out.
00:10:46.552 --> 00:10:53.243
So it's all about resilience, and that's what I focus on, is what's in our control.
00:10:53.243 --> 00:10:55.643
Not focusing on what's not in your control.
00:10:56.033 --> 00:10:58.043
Yeah, which is basically other people.
00:10:58.552 --> 00:11:07.403
So I've seen over and over again in my clients, especially high achievers and healers, that burnout rarely begins with workload.
00:11:07.403 --> 00:11:13.102
It begins with the internal pressure cooker, self-criticism, and over responsibility.
00:11:13.523 --> 00:11:20.482
Perfectionism, I'd love to explore how CBT speaks directly to these patterns.
00:11:21.413 --> 00:11:22.253
Absolutely.
00:11:22.462 --> 00:11:30.873
So, one of the cognitive distortions in CBT, there's different ones like fortune telling, like I talked about before, all or nothing thinking.
00:11:31.143 --> 00:11:35.702
One of them is shoulding, shoulding, I should be more like this.
00:11:35.702 --> 00:11:37.143
He should be more like that.
00:11:37.503 --> 00:11:42.857
And we become perfectionistic, when we think we should be better.
00:11:43.368 --> 00:11:52.642
And when we have irrational narratives about ourselves that we failed, we end up being perfectionistic 'cause we don't wanna fail one more time.
00:11:52.851 --> 00:11:55.312
So it is very anxiety provoking.
00:11:55.371 --> 00:11:59.902
And I never forget this client I had probably like 30 years ago.
00:11:59.902 --> 00:11:59.991
Mm-hmm.
00:12:00.682 --> 00:12:04.761
And she was in her thirties and she was in front of me.
00:12:05.557 --> 00:12:12.636
The coffee table was between us and she said, I had this many failures and I can't afford one more.
00:12:14.287 --> 00:12:18.126
And she was known at her job as being very perfectionistic.
00:12:19.116 --> 00:12:24.756
And I said, what were your failures and one was she dropped outta college?
00:12:25.657 --> 00:12:27.876
And the other one, I actually don't remember now.
00:12:27.951 --> 00:12:27.981
Okay.
00:12:28.902 --> 00:12:46.302
but I'll tell you, they weren't like a boatload of failures, but they defined her and that was her narrative that she screwed up and she can't afford to screw up anymore, and that causes so much perfectionism, anxiety because of the shoulds.
00:12:46.812 --> 00:12:55.812
And through therapy, she realized that she's beautiful no matter what and.
00:12:56.336 --> 00:13:00.836
A lot of times the road to success is paved with failure.
00:13:01.767 --> 00:13:01.917
Mm-hmm.
00:13:02.157 --> 00:13:07.767
Or paved with misgivings and paved with regrets, and it's all about how you deal with them.
00:13:08.126 --> 00:13:10.736
So she ended up going back to college.
00:13:10.947 --> 00:13:13.376
She ended up being easier on herself.
00:13:14.336 --> 00:13:24.866
Sometimes people have a lot of messages when they grow up from their caregivers that they're not good enough and that they have to be a certain way to be okay.
00:13:25.076 --> 00:13:33.032
But this isn't about blaming, it's about understanding where it comes from because your parents had parents too.
00:13:33.981 --> 00:13:34.471
Exactly.
00:13:34.611 --> 00:13:37.917
And nobody actually means to be dysfunctional.
00:13:38.216 --> 00:13:43.616
So sometimes you have to change around the board of directors in your head and realize.
00:13:43.922 --> 00:13:45.601
this one doesn't work for me, so well.
00:13:46.111 --> 00:13:47.971
I like that board of directors.
00:13:48.211 --> 00:13:48.451
Yeah.
00:13:48.451 --> 00:13:51.361
One I hear a lot is I should be farther along.
00:13:52.802 --> 00:13:53.491
Absolutely.
00:13:53.731 --> 00:13:57.172
one thing they do in CBT is, where's the evidence?
00:13:57.351 --> 00:13:59.721
Where's the evidence that you should be father along?
00:13:59.871 --> 00:14:01.642
Well, so and so is father along.
00:14:01.792 --> 00:14:03.322
So what comparison?
00:14:03.322 --> 00:14:04.912
That's another cognitive distortion.
00:14:05.706 --> 00:14:07.657
He's so much smarter than me.
00:14:07.746 --> 00:14:09.096
He's better than I am.
00:14:09.456 --> 00:14:11.106
People do that all the time.
00:14:11.106 --> 00:14:13.716
they have smarter kids, they have better kids.
00:14:14.017 --> 00:14:16.386
They're, wealthier, they have a better car.
00:14:16.386 --> 00:14:22.447
like we compare to each other and that is usually not gonna end up too well with us.
00:14:23.947 --> 00:14:24.461
Yeah, right.
00:14:24.461 --> 00:14:28.417
Because there's always, always someone that's better in some way or another.
00:14:28.836 --> 00:14:32.106
Compare yourself to where were you, where you were yesterday?
00:14:32.496 --> 00:14:32.797
Yes.
00:14:32.797 --> 00:14:40.057
That's basically where the comparison should be, but it, it, it steals a lot of joy from people mm-hmm.
00:14:40.201 --> 00:14:49.057
When they compare themselves to others, because often they find people that they fi fall short of.
00:14:50.677 --> 00:14:51.037
Yeah.
00:14:51.277 --> 00:14:54.126
And there's always somebody better and somebody worse.
00:14:54.659 --> 00:14:54.960
Yep.
00:14:55.350 --> 00:14:56.070
And really.
00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:58.230
It doesn't matter.
00:14:58.470 --> 00:14:58.529
No.
00:14:58.529 --> 00:15:03.240
It matters about you being you and the best you that you can be.
00:15:04.649 --> 00:15:04.799
Yeah.
00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:07.889
And bring, bring yourself and your family joy.
00:15:08.549 --> 00:15:08.850
Right.
00:15:09.269 --> 00:15:22.169
But when you talk about burnout, burnout often happens because we have internal narratives in our head of the way things should be and that we have to be better and we have to work harder.
00:15:22.169 --> 00:15:26.100
We have to do this, and we end up stressing ourselves out.
00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:26.250
Mm-hmm.
00:15:26.789 --> 00:15:30.090
Because we have a board of directors that needs to be fired.
00:15:30.809 --> 00:15:31.230
Yeah.
00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:34.350
So another one is like people pleasing.
00:15:34.845 --> 00:15:36.735
You can't make everybody happy.
00:15:36.914 --> 00:15:38.804
You can only make yourself happy.
00:15:39.014 --> 00:15:42.284
I used to ask my clients, I'm a retired therapist.
00:15:42.674 --> 00:15:47.620
I, I say, well, let's say, people really like you.
00:15:48.070 --> 00:15:49.870
How does that make you feel better about yourself?
00:15:50.575 --> 00:15:52.825
I mean, you're not gonna necessarily know how much they like you.
00:15:53.095 --> 00:15:54.504
Why would that make you feel better?
00:15:54.565 --> 00:16:01.085
Like, really, I would say the real key to happiness is self-compassion.
00:16:01.774 --> 00:16:01.865
Mm-hmm.
00:16:02.465 --> 00:16:04.054
And compassion towards others.
00:16:04.475 --> 00:16:04.565
Mm-hmm.
00:16:04.804 --> 00:16:14.825
And a lot of times people think if I'm smarter, if my kid gets into the best school and all these objective things, then I'm gonna be happier.
00:16:15.095 --> 00:16:15.725
Well, guess what?
00:16:15.725 --> 00:16:16.544
It doesn't work that way.
00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:30.080
Yeah, you might have a temporary lift, but real happiness is when people are forgiving of themselves or others and they have compassion for themselves and others.
00:16:30.259 --> 00:16:31.940
That's the real self-esteem.
00:16:32.596 --> 00:16:34.522
that's a beautiful insight.
00:16:34.522 --> 00:16:35.241
I love that.
00:16:36.532 --> 00:16:44.152
I, I've hear, I've heard people, I would be happy if I lost 10 pounds and then they lose 10 pounds and then they go, wait, what happened?
00:16:45.022 --> 00:16:46.192
Hey, what happened?
00:16:46.192 --> 00:16:47.392
It was supposed to make me happier.
00:16:48.392 --> 00:16:50.552
maybe there's something good about it.
00:16:50.552 --> 00:16:52.981
I'm not saying that it's not something to strive for.
00:16:52.981 --> 00:17:03.751
we all need to strive for things that we find important, but happiness is not contingent necessarily on reaching the goal.
00:17:03.812 --> 00:17:07.082
It's on how you reach the goal and what you tell yourself.
00:17:08.342 --> 00:17:09.481
I think so too.
00:17:10.592 --> 00:17:19.201
So let, let's talk about some typical results, like what do you commonly help people with and what does the process look like from start to finish?
00:17:19.932 --> 00:17:27.031
If someone would come to my office and, and I do still see a few people online, and they would say, I had terrible week.
00:17:27.031 --> 00:17:29.102
I'm so upset, I'm so anxious.
00:17:30.001 --> 00:17:36.701
A very simple technique that I would use all the time and it was so effective is writing down what they said.
00:17:37.892 --> 00:17:42.152
I would write and I'd have like a whole page and I'm, I'm listening for about 10 minutes.
00:17:42.422 --> 00:17:50.821
I did this and that, and I'd ask questions and then write it down, and then I would say, okay, let's look at what you said.
00:17:51.751 --> 00:17:58.862
And almost if they were really depressed and anxious and stressed out, almost everything was irrational.
00:17:59.342 --> 00:18:02.642
And they didn't realize it because they're called ants.
00:18:03.001 --> 00:18:05.041
Automatic negative thoughts.
00:18:05.461 --> 00:18:11.011
They are so akin to our being, we have no idea that they're even irrational.
00:18:12.001 --> 00:18:18.152
So an example would be, my, spouse made me so mad, my kids drove me crazy.
00:18:18.152 --> 00:18:18.692
that kind of stuff.
00:18:18.692 --> 00:18:19.332
So I'd write that down.
00:18:19.997 --> 00:18:22.007
Is that fact or is that fiction?
00:18:22.217 --> 00:18:26.086
I would ask them and they said, well, okay, maybe it's an exaggeration.
00:18:26.507 --> 00:18:30.946
I said, well, when you exaggerate, your feelings are also exaggerated negatively.
00:18:32.582 --> 00:18:39.061
So they started to then identify what some of the thoughts were.
00:18:39.632 --> 00:18:45.902
And then I said, well, let's change the thought to a healthier thought instead of My kids drive me crazy.
00:18:46.531 --> 00:18:54.886
I'm very stressed out when my children, don't do their homework or, be specific rather than general and.
00:18:56.207 --> 00:18:59.656
By modeling to them how to catch your thoughts.
00:18:59.656 --> 00:18:59.747
Mm-hmm.
00:19:00.136 --> 00:19:02.446
How to make them not so automatic.
00:19:02.747 --> 00:19:02.866
Mm-hmm.
00:19:03.106 --> 00:19:04.126
That helped a lot.
00:19:04.547 --> 00:19:13.067
Another technique, which is actually from A.C.T. Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, which was founded by Steven Hayes.
00:19:13.662 --> 00:19:19.692
Is distance yourself from those thoughts, observe them instead of think from them, you look at them.
00:19:19.932 --> 00:19:20.021
Mm-hmm.
00:19:20.082 --> 00:19:32.561
So just imagine those negative thoughts being on like leafs on a stream or clouds in the sky, or a ticker tape at a movie theater and you watch it rather than looking from it.
00:19:33.612 --> 00:19:37.332
There I go again thinking I'm a failure rather than I'm a failure.
00:19:37.932 --> 00:19:47.711
So one is you believe everything you think, and I love that saying that I heard years ago, I don't even know who said it, but don't believe everything you think.
00:19:51.636 --> 00:19:53.446
Just love that you think it doesn't make it so.
00:19:54.551 --> 00:19:55.422
Exactly.
00:19:55.422 --> 00:20:01.241
It's just like everything you read on the internet is true in the news.
00:20:01.301 --> 00:20:04.152
That's a whole other story of the fake news and whatever.
00:20:04.392 --> 00:20:05.291
Won't even go there.
00:20:05.531 --> 00:20:05.832
Yeah.
00:20:05.832 --> 00:20:07.061
We don't need to go there.
00:20:07.061 --> 00:20:11.102
But it's just a lot of information going by that's meaningless.
00:20:12.182 --> 00:20:12.662
Exactly.
00:20:13.231 --> 00:20:13.652
Yeah.
00:20:14.642 --> 00:20:19.862
So not everyone finds it easy to change those long held emotional habits.
00:20:19.862 --> 00:20:23.612
Some listeners might be in the middle of a very tough chapter right now.
00:20:23.612 --> 00:20:29.461
When someone is really struggling, deeply overwhelmed, mentally exhausted, or convinced, nothing can change.
00:20:29.461 --> 00:20:31.826
What do you recommend as a starting point for them?
00:20:32.616 --> 00:20:35.257
So I think self-help books help a lot.
00:20:35.261 --> 00:20:35.672
Mm-hmm.
00:20:35.757 --> 00:20:40.297
Of course, I would love everybody to get mine, but there's plenty of self-help books out there.
00:20:40.896 --> 00:20:46.317
And, for example, I'll give you examples from my self-help books because I've written a lot of them.
00:20:46.467 --> 00:20:48.596
But, let's talk about the CBT one.
00:20:48.987 --> 00:20:53.017
I, You don't just like read about how to think more healthy.
00:20:53.346 --> 00:21:02.646
There's worksheets, there's handouts, there's logs, there's diaries, and so a lot of times people need structure.
00:21:02.767 --> 00:21:04.596
It's hard to do it on your own.
00:21:05.047 --> 00:21:09.366
So like if you say to something, well, just try not to think so negatively.
00:21:09.547 --> 00:21:10.057
Guess what?
00:21:10.057 --> 00:21:11.166
That's not gonna work.
00:21:11.557 --> 00:21:15.307
But if you say, okay, write down your thought.
00:21:15.967 --> 00:21:18.156
Write down your feeling and your.
00:21:19.011 --> 00:21:26.021
Your, reaction, your behavior and then write down a healthier thought.
00:21:26.021 --> 00:21:27.582
This is all on a log now.
00:21:27.912 --> 00:21:30.432
And then what's the effect of healthier thinking?
00:21:30.642 --> 00:21:44.201
So you actually learn how to change that thought with a, cognitive CBT diary, for example, are, I have worksheets in my, my books on.
00:21:45.261 --> 00:21:49.071
what is, temporary thinking versus permanent thinking?
00:21:49.372 --> 00:21:52.372
How to use I statements in communicating.
00:21:52.701 --> 00:21:52.791
Mm-hmm.
00:21:53.031 --> 00:21:55.311
Not just to other people, but to yourself.
00:21:55.551 --> 00:21:55.701
Mm-hmm.
00:21:56.241 --> 00:22:00.801
Rather than you statements instead of, I shouldn't be that way.
00:22:00.832 --> 00:22:04.281
That's actually a "you" statement to yourself because you have the shoulds.
00:22:04.892 --> 00:22:14.011
So a way to change that is I am this way and this is what I would like to change, rather than I should be that way.
00:22:14.221 --> 00:22:30.392
So it's a lot of, Work, like if you're going to a therapist and just like if you go to a personal trainer once a week, but you don't train or do anything in the middle, you're not gonna be very physically fit.
00:22:30.662 --> 00:22:40.797
But if you use therapy, like a personal trainer for your mind, and in the middle you need to do exercises, you need to do diaries, you need to do logs.
00:22:40.977 --> 00:22:55.826
So I would say my biggest advice to people is find the type of log, or diary or self-help worksheets that you do over and over and over again.
00:22:56.126 --> 00:22:59.787
'cause just 'cause you know it doesn't mean you're able to incorporate it.
00:23:00.116 --> 00:23:05.037
And so that's what self-help books do, and mine certainly does.
00:23:05.307 --> 00:23:08.666
It gives the tools of how to do all this.
00:23:09.757 --> 00:23:17.136
The thing that triggered in my is like, try not to be so negative or try not to be whatever it is.
00:23:17.136 --> 00:23:20.977
But whenever you throw not in a sentence, your subconscious puts it away.
00:23:20.977 --> 00:23:23.227
And here is try to be more negative.
00:23:24.606 --> 00:23:24.906
Right.
00:23:24.997 --> 00:23:30.787
And also it's hard to try to be something that's not.
00:23:31.192 --> 00:23:31.251
Yeah.
00:23:32.182 --> 00:23:32.692
Positive.
00:23:32.692 --> 00:23:32.751
Yeah.
00:23:32.781 --> 00:23:36.622
Like it's better to think this is my goal and this is what I'm gonna do.
00:23:36.622 --> 00:23:36.682
Yeah.
00:23:36.922 --> 00:23:40.582
So let's say you want to avoid the cognitive distortions.
00:23:40.731 --> 00:23:45.382
Some people have a more dramatic way of thinking about things.
00:23:45.382 --> 00:23:47.332
So things are all or nothing.
00:23:47.332 --> 00:23:49.372
And the end of the world.
00:23:49.372 --> 00:24:17.912
And I'll never forget when I was at a youth guidance center early in my career, I was generally in private practice, but this is very early on when I was in my twenties, and this girl, this is before cell phones, this girl was brought into a, my clinic and I saw her, by police because she ran in front of a car 'cause she didn't wanna live anymore after her boyfriend broke up with her.
00:24:18.592 --> 00:24:19.102
Oh my goodness.
00:24:19.102 --> 00:24:31.162
It is actually very true, and the car stopped and the person that was in the house called the police and came over and she was crying and sobbing and miserable.
00:24:31.162 --> 00:24:46.037
I don't wanna live, and I talked to her and she again said things that I wrote down, nothing without'em, I will never love again.
00:24:46.037 --> 00:24:47.537
All this, all this stuff.
00:24:48.376 --> 00:24:50.987
And I said, do you think that's really true?
00:24:51.537 --> 00:24:53.156
You're 17 years old.
00:24:53.426 --> 00:24:58.646
I know it's very painful, but where's the evidence that that's true?
00:24:59.037 --> 00:25:00.297
Well, no, maybe not.
00:25:00.356 --> 00:25:07.781
So she had a very dramatic way of thinking about things, and I taught her other thought habits.
00:25:08.051 --> 00:25:14.051
I gave her worksheets on what is unhealthy thinking versus healthy thinking.
00:25:14.172 --> 00:25:15.672
And she said, yep, that's me.
00:25:15.672 --> 00:25:16.392
All these things.
00:25:16.392 --> 00:25:17.352
That's what I'm thinking.
00:25:17.592 --> 00:25:23.021
I said, well, let's work on changing your thoughts because you're not thinking very clearly.
00:25:23.352 --> 00:25:25.842
Well, about three weeks later, she had another boyfriend.
00:25:25.842 --> 00:25:26.981
She was feeling fine.
00:25:27.311 --> 00:25:29.051
She didn't even wanna go to therapy anymore.
00:25:29.382 --> 00:25:31.301
So, like she learned.
00:25:31.332 --> 00:25:34.602
I'm not saying she didn't have problems down the road, I don't know.
00:25:34.916 --> 00:25:38.517
But all I know is that I taught her some skills.
00:25:40.356 --> 00:25:44.676
some people have more of styles that need it more.
00:25:44.886 --> 00:25:48.336
Now there's something called dialectic behavior therapy.
00:25:49.221 --> 00:25:49.642
Mm-hmm.
00:25:49.721 --> 00:25:51.307
Which is great for borderlines.
00:25:51.307 --> 00:25:52.237
It was actually.
00:25:52.876 --> 00:25:54.426
kind of invented, mm-hmm.
00:25:54.676 --> 00:26:00.557
by Marshall Lenahan for people who were high risk kind of behavior, extreme.
00:26:01.096 --> 00:26:15.836
and, and, DBT dialectic behavior therapy dialectic means opposite Uhhuh, how you, I love you, I hate you, like this extreme kind of emotions that people get and what.
00:26:16.751 --> 00:26:22.902
DBT does is it uses cognitive behavior therapy, but it's softened with mindfulness.
00:26:23.531 --> 00:26:23.622
Mm-hmm.
00:26:23.862 --> 00:26:30.612
And focus on being able to experience now what are you feeling?
00:26:30.942 --> 00:26:35.321
How, what are your sensations to take you out of the drama?
00:26:35.862 --> 00:26:44.067
So that's in my books also because, that has been very helpful to people who need to what's called emotionally regulate.
00:26:45.586 --> 00:26:48.166
'cause some people have a hard time doing it on their own.
00:26:48.527 --> 00:26:48.767
Yeah.
00:26:48.767 --> 00:26:51.717
Is that in your latest book, the one on CCP t?
00:26:51.717 --> 00:26:51.771
Yes.
00:26:52.156 --> 00:26:52.576
Okay.
00:26:52.696 --> 00:26:53.836
I'll make sure.
00:26:54.166 --> 00:26:55.186
Yeah, sorry.
00:26:55.186 --> 00:27:01.517
I'll make sure that the link is in the show notes so people can go directly to it and get it.
00:27:01.517 --> 00:27:02.057
Mm-hmm.
00:27:02.376 --> 00:27:03.606
I love CBT.
00:27:03.656 --> 00:27:06.896
CBT is kind of the cornerstone of a lot of therapies.
00:27:07.287 --> 00:27:07.436
Mm-hmm.
00:27:07.676 --> 00:27:11.396
And DBT is one of them, that's one of the quadrants.
00:27:11.517 --> 00:27:16.586
There's, there's like basically four major things in DBT and CBT is one of them.
00:27:16.916 --> 00:27:17.007
Mm-hmm.
00:27:17.196 --> 00:27:20.076
but then there's the mindfulness, there's emotional regulation.
00:27:20.211 --> 00:27:20.632
Mm-hmm.
00:27:20.731 --> 00:27:27.031
And, distress tolerance, tolerating, and so they're all hands on tips.
00:27:27.031 --> 00:27:28.832
And that's all in my book too.
00:27:29.251 --> 00:27:37.981
because it's all hands on, practical tips for living when you don't feel like you're empowered.
00:27:38.797 --> 00:27:39.126
Yeah.
00:27:39.126 --> 00:27:45.007
A lot of, a lot of people in the healing arts empaths, they don't feel empowered because.
00:27:46.067 --> 00:27:58.311
I mean, empath for example, is pulled this way and that by everybody's moods and emotions and it's very disempowering to not be able to stand there and say, this is me, and that's you.
00:27:58.761 --> 00:28:00.652
It's really hard to distinguish.
00:28:00.652 --> 00:28:09.051
So this work sounds like it's excellent for those of us that are healers, empaths, highly sensitive people.
00:28:09.096 --> 00:28:09.186
Mm-hmm.
00:28:10.477 --> 00:28:10.807
Yes.
00:28:11.287 --> 00:28:11.977
Absolutely.
00:28:12.606 --> 00:28:15.576
So you've been doing this work for about four decades.
00:28:15.576 --> 00:28:18.186
What, what is it that makes or more now?
00:28:18.186 --> 00:28:20.616
I'm, I'm retired now from my therapy practice.
00:28:20.646 --> 00:28:21.277
Yeah.
00:28:21.396 --> 00:28:22.146
Okay.
00:28:22.297 --> 00:28:23.136
Getting older.
00:28:23.287 --> 00:28:28.967
Getting older, So what makes your approach different from other CBT focused clinicians and teachers?
00:28:30.436 --> 00:28:31.426
I have no idea.
00:28:31.487 --> 00:28:35.287
I don't know other people that well, of what they do in therapy.
00:28:35.346 --> 00:28:40.797
I don't know, but I would say that I have a lot of resources, like on my website.
00:28:40.977 --> 00:28:42.836
I have a lot of free resources.
00:28:42.836 --> 00:28:53.727
I, I always would give clients homework and, and different things because, and I, and I love to speak, and I have done since COVID not too much.
00:28:54.086 --> 00:29:01.557
but I always kind of made the learning come alive because.
00:29:02.922 --> 00:29:06.071
I didn't just talk, I had people experience.
00:29:06.251 --> 00:29:14.332
So I do have like a focus on experiential learning and I would say, a lot of people don't necessarily have that.
00:29:14.951 --> 00:29:17.801
but a lot of people might do it more than me.
00:29:18.551 --> 00:29:18.801
I don't know.
00:29:18.801 --> 00:29:18.811
Yeah.
00:29:18.811 --> 00:29:20.142
I don't compare myself to anybody else.
00:29:20.501 --> 00:29:25.751
Well, I listened to some of your interviews before and Oh, cool.
00:29:25.842 --> 00:29:33.461
Uh, I, yeah, I found, I found that your Examples and interactive style and mm-hmm.
00:29:33.701 --> 00:29:42.251
All of that, like extremely engaging and drawing people in so they can see themselves like, oh, I've said that.
00:29:43.076 --> 00:29:46.436
And I've done that and Oh yeah, you're, she's right.
00:29:47.007 --> 00:29:51.836
So I, I think that this is really helpful because a lot of people don't do that.
00:29:51.896 --> 00:29:52.346
Yeah.
00:29:53.396 --> 00:29:53.636
Yeah.
00:29:53.636 --> 00:30:12.987
It's funny, I, I remember speaking a while ago somewhere, and the person who hired me to speak at this, conference, when I would talk about, This particular thing we talk about communication, workplace communication, and I talked about rhetorical questions like didn't I already tell you that?
00:30:13.047 --> 00:30:15.477
They're actually put downs disguised as questions.
00:30:15.537 --> 00:30:15.957
Yes.
00:30:15.957 --> 00:30:17.126
So that's like practical.
00:30:17.457 --> 00:30:22.586
And she said, told me afterwards, she said, I was sort of horrified as I was listening to you.
00:30:22.616 --> 00:30:26.757
'cause just this morning before the conference, I did that in my emails.
00:30:27.656 --> 00:30:28.497
I did those kind of things.
00:30:28.616 --> 00:30:32.487
So I, I, I do like to use a lot of practical examples.
00:30:32.696 --> 00:30:32.787
Mm-hmm.
00:30:33.027 --> 00:30:36.386
Because a lot of people use them, a lot of people use rhetorical questions.
00:30:36.696 --> 00:30:37.507
what's wrong with you?
00:30:38.076 --> 00:30:38.376
Yeah.
00:30:38.376 --> 00:30:40.507
Or they, it just, why are you acting that way?
00:30:40.807 --> 00:30:52.612
They, it's like a knee jerk reaction that they've heard their whole life and they don't realize how damaging it is to them and to the people around them, and they don't realize the question is just to put down.
00:30:52.942 --> 00:30:54.261
Yeah, just being critical.
00:30:54.622 --> 00:30:56.787
It's, and the less judgmental we can be.
00:30:56.967 --> 00:30:57.386
Mm-hmm.
00:30:57.471 --> 00:30:59.392
The healthier we're gonna be for others.
00:30:59.842 --> 00:31:07.481
Now, obviously people shouldn't kill and, beat you up and that kind of stuff, but we're talking about personality characteristics.
00:31:07.751 --> 00:31:09.882
The least judgmental we are, the better.
00:31:10.632 --> 00:31:20.521
Yeah, the more accepting, the more loving, no matter what I, I have this image and, 'cause I'm into all this, like, hands-on visualizations.
00:31:20.882 --> 00:31:26.281
I love this image that I have of, and I learned it from someone else.
00:31:26.711 --> 00:31:28.511
I'm not taking credit for.
00:31:28.882 --> 00:31:36.231
originating it, but it's been very powerful and I've used it for years now is, let's say you have like a $20 bill and you crumple it up.
00:31:36.692 --> 00:31:52.526
As we get older, as we get into our fifties, sixties, seventies, and we feel creased and we have little, disappointments in our lives and big disappointments and we have losses and whatever, sometimes we feel like we're not as worthy.
00:31:53.007 --> 00:31:55.856
And we're all kind of crushed and folded.
00:31:55.977 --> 00:32:03.676
And so in like a seminar, I would say, okay, let's say, you make mistakes, you failed, you have regrets.
00:32:04.277 --> 00:32:10.457
And then I say, all right, let's open up this $20 bill, not crush it fold it anymore.
00:32:10.817 --> 00:32:11.777
How much is it worth?
00:32:12.616 --> 00:32:20.326
And it's still worth the same no matter how much we're crushed and we lose and we fail or whatever.
00:32:20.807 --> 00:32:23.477
We're still as beautiful as the day we were born.
00:32:23.537 --> 00:32:23.626
Mm-hmm.
00:32:24.287 --> 00:32:29.896
And so many times people forget that because of all those creases and folds in their lives.
00:32:30.017 --> 00:32:31.846
So I love that as an image.
00:32:32.507 --> 00:32:33.586
That's, I love that too.
00:32:33.977 --> 00:32:35.352
Thank you worthy, no matter.
00:32:35.652 --> 00:32:36.071
Mm-hmm.
00:32:36.287 --> 00:32:42.146
We, we all have the same worth, just as we did when we were a baby in the nursery.
00:32:42.717 --> 00:32:42.987
Yeah.
00:32:43.271 --> 00:32:45.910
I, I always say God doesn't make mistakes.
00:32:46.653 --> 00:32:46.923
Right.
00:32:46.923 --> 00:32:48.844
You are the beautiful divine being.
00:32:48.844 --> 00:32:50.104
God doesn't make mistakes.
00:32:50.104 --> 00:32:51.364
You're here for a reason.
00:32:52.203 --> 00:32:52.294
Mm-hmm.
00:32:52.534 --> 00:32:52.804
Right.
00:32:52.864 --> 00:32:59.763
And I know that's a little on the religious side, but it's one of those things because I, I am very different.
00:32:59.763 --> 00:33:04.864
I did all boy things, i became a scientist.
00:33:04.864 --> 00:33:06.903
I did a lot of sports.
00:33:06.903 --> 00:33:08.134
I was a runner.
00:33:08.134 --> 00:33:09.394
I lift weights.
00:33:09.394 --> 00:33:11.673
I do all of this boy stuff and I thought.
00:33:12.499 --> 00:33:13.759
What's wrong with me?
00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:15.739
Why don't I like women's stuff?
00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:20.679
And so then I go, nothing's wrong with me, God, made me, what am I doing?
00:33:20.679 --> 00:33:21.949
Do questioning God?
00:33:22.638 --> 00:33:29.628
And so that kind of thought brought me through thinking that, I, I was a mistake and no, I'm just different.
00:33:31.784 --> 00:33:39.104
Well, and I look at it as mistakes are what you need to do to succeed.
00:33:39.854 --> 00:33:40.334
Exactly.
00:33:40.384 --> 00:33:41.284
we're human.
00:33:41.703 --> 00:34:00.003
when my clients would tell me about, all these things that they did and regrets that they have, I said, what, it just makes you more human and hopefully it increases your sensitivity in others who are also dealing with adversity and it can increase your empathy.
00:34:00.304 --> 00:34:05.854
So I don't really, I I, mistakes are okay.
00:34:07.324 --> 00:34:08.943
It's not like there's no mistakes.
00:34:08.943 --> 00:34:09.693
I don't believe that.
00:34:09.693 --> 00:34:11.014
I think there's a lot of mistakes.
00:34:11.074 --> 00:34:12.423
I made a lot of mistakes.
00:34:12.514 --> 00:34:15.603
I would've done things differently if I knew better at the time.
00:34:16.173 --> 00:34:23.704
But I've seen so many clients that were wearing the past, like a backpack.
00:34:24.603 --> 00:34:33.753
And it was so heavy because of their failed marriage and their poor choices and getting into drugs and all this stuff.
00:34:34.204 --> 00:34:42.753
And I would try to help them forgive themselves for not knowing then what they knew now.
00:34:42.759 --> 00:34:43.119
Mm-hmm.
00:34:43.653 --> 00:34:51.454
And also to not having the foresight to what's now so obvious in hindsight.
00:34:52.054 --> 00:34:52.804
Exactly.
00:34:52.833 --> 00:34:52.954
And.
00:34:53.523 --> 00:34:58.864
That has been very helpful to people because we're all works in progress.
00:34:59.313 --> 00:34:59.403
Mm-hmm.
00:34:59.643 --> 00:35:06.693
And in all my years of being a therapist and being a person, I've never met someone who actually wanted to be dysfunctional.
00:35:07.414 --> 00:35:07.954
Correct.
00:35:07.954 --> 00:35:09.844
And they don't wanna hurt other people.
00:35:09.844 --> 00:35:12.063
And they wanna have great relationships.
00:35:12.423 --> 00:35:13.443
They wanna be loved.
00:35:14.824 --> 00:35:17.409
They might hurt other people because they don't mm-hmm.
00:35:17.699 --> 00:35:20.914
Don't, they don't want, they don't either know any better or they're just mm-hmm.
00:35:21.213 --> 00:35:26.134
Well, they, they wanna, they just don't know any different Yeah.
00:35:26.134 --> 00:35:27.753
And they don't know what they're doing.
00:35:28.534 --> 00:35:28.804
Correct.
00:35:28.804 --> 00:35:30.724
So the more enlightened we get.
00:35:32.643 --> 00:35:38.724
Unfortunately, as you get older, you get wiser, but it doesn't do you as much good as they did when I was younger, but whatever.
00:35:39.083 --> 00:35:39.653
I'll take it out.
00:35:39.653 --> 00:35:40.043
Exactly.
00:35:40.764 --> 00:35:41.063
Yeah.
00:35:41.063 --> 00:35:44.153
I remember when I was younger, I was always anxious.
00:35:44.153 --> 00:35:46.434
I was chewing the inside of my mouth.
00:35:46.434 --> 00:35:51.833
I was like holding myself really stiffly, and now I think, wow, who was that?
00:35:52.403 --> 00:35:54.324
I wish I was like that.
00:35:54.563 --> 00:35:56.514
Back then instead of now.
00:35:56.664 --> 00:35:59.494
But it's, but you wouldn't have ended up the way you are now.
00:35:59.643 --> 00:36:00.994
Yes, exactly.
00:36:01.389 --> 00:36:03.603
So we, we all have to, we all do the best we can.
00:36:03.844 --> 00:36:04.293
Right?
00:36:04.293 --> 00:36:08.373
We have to go through the steps, to become who we are now.
00:36:09.304 --> 00:36:09.393
Mm-hmm.
00:36:09.873 --> 00:36:12.844
So, no, there's no, there's no turning back the clock.
00:36:12.903 --> 00:36:17.014
There's only no living now and moving forward with what we've learned.
00:36:17.614 --> 00:36:18.873
Yes, exactly.
00:36:18.873 --> 00:36:21.963
So I love this conversation.
00:36:21.963 --> 00:36:23.284
This was wonderful.
00:36:23.284 --> 00:36:24.784
And yes.
00:36:24.784 --> 00:36:25.398
Well, thank you.
00:36:25.864 --> 00:36:26.403
Yes.
00:36:26.403 --> 00:36:36.423
And what, what's like one last tip for someone who feels drained or defeated, what's a single best tip you could offer them right now besides getting your book?
00:36:38.588 --> 00:36:47.481
There's always hope and never forget how beautiful you are, even though you might feel like that crumpled bill.
00:36:48.592 --> 00:36:49.012
Yeah.
00:36:49.251 --> 00:36:49.851
Oh yes.
00:36:49.851 --> 00:36:51.322
I love that analogy.
00:36:51.322 --> 00:36:52.371
It's so beautiful.
00:36:52.762 --> 00:36:58.311
So Judy, thank you so much for sharing such powerful, practical tools with us today.
00:36:58.461 --> 00:36:58.641
Thank you.
00:36:59.001 --> 00:37:05.632
I know so many listeners are walking away with new clarity and breathing room and to remember that.
00:37:05.632 --> 00:37:07.041
Thank you very much Yeah.
00:37:07.041 --> 00:37:07.581
For having me.
00:37:08.032 --> 00:37:09.206
Yo, you're most welcome.
00:37:09.407 --> 00:37:10.757
I enjoyed our conversation.
00:37:10.757 --> 00:37:11.206
Thank you.
00:37:11.257 --> 00:37:13.746
Thank you for listening to break free from the burnout.
00:37:14.512 --> 00:37:19.612
Resources and show notes are available at break free from the burnout.com.
00:37:19.672 --> 00:37:30.081
Until next time, I'm Dr. Anastasia Chopelas, sending you golden healing, light and success vibes to becoming aligned, confident, and prosperous.
00:37:30.501 --> 00:37:33.875
Your gifts are so needed in this world.
00:00:01.409 --> 00:00:04.259
Have you ever noticed how quickly stress can snowball?
00:00:04.259 --> 00:00:12.990
When your mind grabs onto a single negative thought, one moment, you're tired, and the next you're convinced you're failing, falling behind, or not enough.
00:00:13.009 --> 00:00:17.658
What if changing that internal dialogue could reverse that entire spiral?
00:00:18.179 --> 00:00:24.875
Today, I'm joined by someone who has spent over 40 years helping people break out of those spirals and reclaim their lives.
00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:44.869
Judith Belmont is a psychotherapist, speaker and author of 11 books, including her newest 110 CBD tips and tools, and she spent her career teaching people how to use their own thoughts as tools for resilience rather than triggers for burnout.
00:00:46.158 --> 00:00:48.497
Welcome to break free from the Burnout.
00:00:48.768 --> 00:00:53.237
I'm your host, Dr. Anastasia Chopelas, physicist turned energy healer.
00:00:53.688 --> 00:00:59.237
I'm here to help you make the quantum shifts to release the hidden blocks to your success.
00:00:59.658 --> 00:01:02.027
Your next breakthrough starts now.
00:01:02.344 --> 00:01:03.575
So welcome, Judy.
00:01:03.575 --> 00:01:05.045
I'm so happy you're here.
00:01:05.885 --> 00:01:07.594
Well, thank you very much for inviting me.
00:01:07.685 --> 00:01:09.275
You're most welcome.
00:01:09.275 --> 00:01:13.894
Everyone has such a personal story about how they found their way into helping others.
00:01:14.525 --> 00:01:19.125
What led you to CBT and the work you've done for so many years?
00:01:20.444 --> 00:01:32.355
I was always interested in why people do things and always like a sensitive child, and so I never doubted I'd be a therapist, never doubted it.
00:01:32.385 --> 00:01:34.334
It's always been my mission and my path.
00:01:34.814 --> 00:01:36.724
and then, I was very shy.
00:01:37.349 --> 00:01:39.209
I needed a lot of tools myself.
00:01:39.670 --> 00:01:46.150
but I really lucked out because after I went to grad school, I have a master's in clinical psychology.
00:01:46.599 --> 00:01:52.930
One of my first jobs was a part-time assertiveness training instructor.
00:01:53.510 --> 00:02:04.370
I was working at a youth guidance center in Massachusetts for 25 hours a week, and I needed another 15 hours to have my 40 hours, and I lucked into this job.
00:02:04.370 --> 00:02:06.560
They said master's in psychology.
00:02:06.829 --> 00:02:09.889
So I, this was back in the seventies.
00:02:10.189 --> 00:02:25.425
In the late seventies, so I. Answered the newspaper ad, of course this is way before computers and, I didn't really know what assertiveness training was, but I thought, they want a degree in psychology, so it must be something like I'm doing.
00:02:25.514 --> 00:02:39.318
I don't know, never even heard of the assertiveness training before, but it turned out, it changed my life because I learned the importance of practical hands-on tips and tools, which led me.
00:02:39.810 --> 00:02:47.550
In the rest of my career, in my practice, as well as speaking, as well as eventually writing books.
00:02:48.256 --> 00:02:49.216
Beautiful.
00:02:49.216 --> 00:02:49.665
So.
00:02:50.776 --> 00:03:00.406
As you were talking, I, I could identify myself 'cause I was also extremely shy and I think one year in high school I said maybe 10 words in the school.
00:03:02.686 --> 00:03:04.786
So I, I totally get it.
00:03:04.786 --> 00:03:11.915
And I'm also sensitive to other people, so having these tools probably would've helped me a lot.
00:03:12.355 --> 00:03:13.170
A lot more.
00:03:13.170 --> 00:03:13.230
Yeah.
00:03:13.260 --> 00:03:14.670
Definitely would've helped me.
00:03:14.670 --> 00:03:20.170
But that's why I'm so passionate about it, because, I wasn't naturally outgoing.
00:03:20.170 --> 00:03:23.140
I wasn't naturally confident when I was younger.
00:03:23.501 --> 00:03:23.591
Mm-hmm.
00:03:23.830 --> 00:03:26.830
And I learned to develop it through tools.
00:03:26.980 --> 00:03:27.040
Yeah.
00:03:27.221 --> 00:03:42.350
And that first job that I had, which was this part-time job that I just wanted to help make ends meet, ended up being life changing because I didn't really learn this stuff in my clinical psychology graduate program.
00:03:42.561 --> 00:03:49.881
They were more psychoanalytic and all about your past and whatever, and this was very refreshing to me.
00:03:50.151 --> 00:03:57.980
I'm always interested in knowing about the past to understand and have insight, but that doesn't necessarily help you today.
00:03:58.610 --> 00:04:02.871
And so that really became a light switch in my head.
00:04:03.414 --> 00:04:16.975
And so before we talk about burnout specifically, let's inform, our listeners to help understand what exactly is CBT and why it's such a powerful tool.
00:04:17.725 --> 00:04:20.935
Well, CBT is stands for cognitive behavior therapy.
00:04:21.384 --> 00:04:22.704
Cognitive means mind.
00:04:22.704 --> 00:04:32.470
Behavior is behavior, and basically the premise of cognitive therapy is, the quality of your thoughts determine the quality of your life.
00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:41.860
If you think in healthy ways, in positive ways, you're going to be more optimistic and more resilient.
00:04:41.980 --> 00:04:52.670
And if you think in irrational ways and ways that you have, what's called cognitive distortions, you're going to not have such a happy life.
00:04:53.339 --> 00:05:00.189
so for example, if I. I think, I'll, I'm such a failure, I'll never make it.
00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:02.769
That's filled with cognitive distortions.
00:05:03.865 --> 00:05:04.675
Failure.
00:05:04.675 --> 00:05:07.435
I'm labeling all or nothing thinking.
00:05:07.615 --> 00:05:13.105
So I'm identifying some cognitive distortions, some unhealthy thought habits.
00:05:13.105 --> 00:05:13.194
Mm-hmm.
00:05:13.644 --> 00:05:17.545
That create a lot of misery and a lot of depression and anxiety.
00:05:17.935 --> 00:05:25.375
However, if I said to myself, I examine self-talk and I did what's called cognitive restructuring.
00:05:26.740 --> 00:05:30.610
Up until now, I've had a hard time feeling successful.
00:05:31.089 --> 00:05:32.889
That's a lot more optimistic.
00:05:32.920 --> 00:05:34.389
That's a lot more positive.
00:05:34.660 --> 00:05:36.550
There's something you can do about it.
00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:40.269
It's not fortune telling that I'm always gonna be that way.
00:05:40.899 --> 00:05:45.730
It's having more control over your thinking, so it's not so irrational.
00:05:46.089 --> 00:05:46.360
Yeah.
00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:50.439
So it's not, not labeling yourself as one thing or another.
00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:53.709
Exactly, and then you don't label other people either.
00:05:53.889 --> 00:05:55.089
Oh, he's so lazy.
00:05:55.250 --> 00:05:56.360
like parents will do that.
00:05:56.360 --> 00:05:56.990
They're their kids.
00:05:56.990 --> 00:05:58.430
Oh, I have such a lazy kid.
00:05:58.430 --> 00:05:59.399
I have, whatever.
00:05:59.610 --> 00:06:01.295
It's, it's not healthy to label.
00:06:01.295 --> 00:06:04.350
It's that kid is so bad instead of that's bad behavior.
00:06:04.350 --> 00:06:06.600
They sit, they label the kid as bad.
00:06:07.439 --> 00:06:07.829
Absolutely.
00:06:07.829 --> 00:06:08.459
You a bad boy.
00:06:09.105 --> 00:06:11.925
But I wouldn't even label behavior as bad.
00:06:12.134 --> 00:06:16.185
It's not healthy behavior, it's not effective behavior.
00:06:16.454 --> 00:06:20.324
But the judgmental thing is in our heads and.
00:06:20.850 --> 00:06:33.709
It is, not really very helpful, so just identifying the way that we think can improve the quality of our lives, and we can also identify it in others, and we can help others.
00:06:33.889 --> 00:06:43.810
Let's say you're a boss and your employee says, She only cares about herself and I can't stand my coworker.
00:06:43.860 --> 00:06:49.079
let's, I'm just giving an example, and you might rephrase that as a role model.
00:06:49.410 --> 00:06:55.410
Sounds like you're really frustrated that she's not as helpful to you as you hope she would be.
00:06:56.370 --> 00:07:00.990
How does that help your modeling healthy ways of thinking?
00:07:01.814 --> 00:07:12.884
Well, it sounds like that person that said it that way is taking responsibility for his or her own behavior and allowing the other person to be who they are.
00:07:14.235 --> 00:07:14.444
Right.
00:07:14.625 --> 00:07:21.314
In a more healthy way, but in the other way it's judgemental and it's compartmentalizing someone as all or nothing.
00:07:21.314 --> 00:07:26.444
They're, they're lazy, they're bad, and even something like, oh, she stresses me out.
00:07:26.920 --> 00:07:28.629
my coworker stresses me out.
00:07:28.990 --> 00:07:29.889
Well, guess what?
00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:32.529
we're not talking about abuse or criminal behavior.
00:07:32.740 --> 00:07:34.120
No one can really do that.
00:07:34.779 --> 00:07:36.579
I am stressed by her.
00:07:37.209 --> 00:07:40.850
I am stressed when she speaks in a stern voice.
00:07:41.009 --> 00:07:47.154
being specific is much healthier rather than being a victim, you're a victor.
00:07:48.449 --> 00:07:54.800
Exactly when people tell me, oh, she made me so mad, and I said, oh, so you gave your power away, did you?
00:07:55.850 --> 00:07:56.540
And they go, what?
00:07:58.069 --> 00:07:59.029
Right, exactly.
00:07:59.209 --> 00:08:03.980
People, one of the songs when I was growing up was Blood, blood, sweat, and Tears.
00:08:03.980 --> 00:08:05.959
You make me so very happy.
00:08:06.259 --> 00:08:06.500
Yeah.
00:08:06.500 --> 00:08:10.759
And I thought, oh, I hope I meet someone that makes me so very happy.
00:08:10.759 --> 00:08:11.990
And what a great song.
00:08:12.290 --> 00:08:16.129
Well, as I grew older, I realized that's a very codependent song.
00:08:16.339 --> 00:08:16.670
It is.
00:08:16.670 --> 00:08:18.620
You're, you make me happy.
00:08:18.620 --> 00:08:21.410
You can make me suicidal, you can make me anything.
00:08:21.740 --> 00:08:23.509
So, how would you rephrase?
00:08:23.509 --> 00:08:25.670
I would, I would ask like my.
00:08:26.180 --> 00:08:29.089
Clients or people like at a training or a workshop?
00:08:30.079 --> 00:08:31.430
How can you rephrase it?
00:08:32.450 --> 00:08:33.889
I am happy when I'm with you.
00:08:33.950 --> 00:08:34.309
Okay.
00:08:34.309 --> 00:08:39.019
Maybe it wouldn't make a hit record, but that's more accurate.
00:08:39.049 --> 00:08:46.649
So we grew up with a lot of irrational thoughts like Ray Charles when I was very young, he was a kind of even before my time.
00:08:47.470 --> 00:08:48.909
I can't stop loving you.
00:08:49.389 --> 00:08:50.110
Well, guess what?
00:08:50.139 --> 00:08:51.039
That's not true.
00:08:51.580 --> 00:08:53.169
It's hard to stop loving you.
00:08:54.294 --> 00:09:01.414
I am trying to stop loving you, but that made a gold record, so I guess he knew something, but that's not exactly very rational.
00:09:01.865 --> 00:09:13.684
I think what you're saying is that we are bombarded with sounds and messages and sound bites that are really detrimental to our healthy way of thinking and Right.
00:09:13.914 --> 00:09:16.195
what's, what's widely accepted as.
00:09:16.674 --> 00:09:21.445
This is reality is actually not so healthy.
00:09:21.445 --> 00:09:30.570
So being able to be a thought detective, and identify some of the irrational shoulds that we have in our society.
00:09:30.605 --> 00:09:30.965
Mm-hmm.
00:09:31.044 --> 00:09:31.054
Mm-hmm.
00:09:31.169 --> 00:09:39.179
Or maybe we grew up with, we can just be more of a, as I said, victor, rather than a victim.
00:09:39.690 --> 00:09:47.549
A lot of times people think in victim ways and they think they're at the mercy of other people and they're actually not.
00:09:47.639 --> 00:09:50.309
It's a choice, but a lot of times people don't realize it.
00:09:51.044 --> 00:10:04.538
And so CBT helps us understand some of these illogical ways of thinking, so you can choose healthier ways to narrate your situation and narrate your life.
00:10:04.898 --> 00:10:11.587
When I talk about those kinds of things in my programs, I talk about the energy of what they're saying.
00:10:12.097 --> 00:10:17.107
Because when somebody says, you make me so mad, you're lowering your energy.
00:10:17.138 --> 00:10:18.908
'cause you're giving your power away.
00:10:19.628 --> 00:10:28.388
And when the other person irritates you on purpose to watch you get mad, then they're stealing your energy.
00:10:29.327 --> 00:10:31.707
it's all negative h. all negative.
00:10:32.008 --> 00:10:32.788
Yeah, exactly.
00:10:33.942 --> 00:10:38.753
A lot of times people think, yeah, think positively, things are gonna work out.
00:10:39.472 --> 00:10:46.163
Sometimes things really don't work out and you can still work out even if things don't work out.
00:10:46.552 --> 00:10:53.243
So it's all about resilience, and that's what I focus on, is what's in our control.
00:10:53.243 --> 00:10:55.643
Not focusing on what's not in your control.
00:10:56.033 --> 00:10:58.043
Yeah, which is basically other people.
00:10:58.552 --> 00:11:07.403
So I've seen over and over again in my clients, especially high achievers and healers, that burnout rarely begins with workload.
00:11:07.403 --> 00:11:13.102
It begins with the internal pressure cooker, self-criticism, and over responsibility.
00:11:13.523 --> 00:11:20.482
Perfectionism, I'd love to explore how CBT speaks directly to these patterns.
00:11:21.413 --> 00:11:22.253
Absolutely.
00:11:22.462 --> 00:11:30.873
So, one of the cognitive distortions in CBT, there's different ones like fortune telling, like I talked about before, all or nothing thinking.
00:11:31.143 --> 00:11:35.702
One of them is shoulding, shoulding, I should be more like this.
00:11:35.702 --> 00:11:37.143
He should be more like that.
00:11:37.503 --> 00:11:42.857
And we become perfectionistic, when we think we should be better.
00:11:43.368 --> 00:11:52.642
And when we have irrational narratives about ourselves that we failed, we end up being perfectionistic 'cause we don't wanna fail one more time.
00:11:52.851 --> 00:11:55.312
So it is very anxiety provoking.
00:11:55.371 --> 00:11:59.902
And I never forget this client I had probably like 30 years ago.
00:11:59.902 --> 00:11:59.991
Mm-hmm.
00:12:00.682 --> 00:12:04.761
And she was in her thirties and she was in front of me.
00:12:05.557 --> 00:12:12.636
The coffee table was between us and she said, I had this many failures and I can't afford one more.
00:12:14.287 --> 00:12:18.126
And she was known at her job as being very perfectionistic.
00:12:19.116 --> 00:12:24.756
And I said, what were your failures and one was she dropped outta college?
00:12:25.657 --> 00:12:27.876
And the other one, I actually don't remember now.
00:12:27.951 --> 00:12:27.981
Okay.
00:12:28.902 --> 00:12:46.302
but I'll tell you, they weren't like a boatload of failures, but they defined her and that was her narrative that she screwed up and she can't afford to screw up anymore, and that causes so much perfectionism, anxiety because of the shoulds.
00:12:46.812 --> 00:12:55.812
And through therapy, she realized that she's beautiful no matter what and.
00:12:56.336 --> 00:13:00.836
A lot of times the road to success is paved with failure.
00:13:01.767 --> 00:13:01.917
Mm-hmm.
00:13:02.157 --> 00:13:07.767
Or paved with misgivings and paved with regrets, and it's all about how you deal with them.
00:13:08.126 --> 00:13:10.736
So she ended up going back to college.
00:13:10.947 --> 00:13:13.376
She ended up being easier on herself.
00:13:14.336 --> 00:13:24.866
Sometimes people have a lot of messages when they grow up from their caregivers that they're not good enough and that they have to be a certain way to be okay.
00:13:25.076 --> 00:13:33.032
But this isn't about blaming, it's about understanding where it comes from because your parents had parents too.
00:13:33.981 --> 00:13:34.471
Exactly.
00:13:34.611 --> 00:13:37.917
And nobody actually means to be dysfunctional.
00:13:38.216 --> 00:13:43.616
So sometimes you have to change around the board of directors in your head and realize.
00:13:43.922 --> 00:13:45.601
this one doesn't work for me, so well.
00:13:46.111 --> 00:13:47.971
I like that board of directors.
00:13:48.211 --> 00:13:48.451
Yeah.
00:13:48.451 --> 00:13:51.361
One I hear a lot is I should be farther along.
00:13:52.802 --> 00:13:53.491
Absolutely.
00:13:53.731 --> 00:13:57.172
one thing they do in CBT is, where's the evidence?
00:13:57.351 --> 00:13:59.721
Where's the evidence that you should be father along?
00:13:59.871 --> 00:14:01.642
Well, so and so is father along.
00:14:01.792 --> 00:14:03.322
So what comparison?
00:14:03.322 --> 00:14:04.912
That's another cognitive distortion.
00:14:05.706 --> 00:14:07.657
He's so much smarter than me.
00:14:07.746 --> 00:14:09.096
He's better than I am.
00:14:09.456 --> 00:14:11.106
People do that all the time.
00:14:11.106 --> 00:14:13.716
they have smarter kids, they have better kids.
00:14:14.017 --> 00:14:16.386
They're, wealthier, they have a better car.
00:14:16.386 --> 00:14:22.447
like we compare to each other and that is usually not gonna end up too well with us.
00:14:23.947 --> 00:14:24.461
Yeah, right.
00:14:24.461 --> 00:14:28.417
Because there's always, always someone that's better in some way or another.
00:14:28.836 --> 00:14:32.106
Compare yourself to where were you, where you were yesterday?
00:14:32.496 --> 00:14:32.797
Yes.
00:14:32.797 --> 00:14:40.057
That's basically where the comparison should be, but it, it, it steals a lot of joy from people mm-hmm.
00:14:40.201 --> 00:14:49.057
When they compare themselves to others, because often they find people that they fi fall short of.
00:14:50.677 --> 00:14:51.037
Yeah.
00:14:51.277 --> 00:14:54.126
And there's always somebody better and somebody worse.
00:14:54.659 --> 00:14:54.960
Yep.
00:14:55.350 --> 00:14:56.070
And really.
00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:58.230
It doesn't matter.
00:14:58.470 --> 00:14:58.529
No.
00:14:58.529 --> 00:15:03.240
It matters about you being you and the best you that you can be.
00:15:04.649 --> 00:15:04.799
Yeah.
00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:07.889
And bring, bring yourself and your family joy.
00:15:08.549 --> 00:15:08.850
Right.
00:15:09.269 --> 00:15:22.169
But when you talk about burnout, burnout often happens because we have internal narratives in our head of the way things should be and that we have to be better and we have to work harder.
00:15:22.169 --> 00:15:26.100
We have to do this, and we end up stressing ourselves out.
00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:26.250
Mm-hmm.
00:15:26.789 --> 00:15:30.090
Because we have a board of directors that needs to be fired.
00:15:30.809 --> 00:15:31.230
Yeah.
00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:34.350
So another one is like people pleasing.
00:15:34.845 --> 00:15:36.735
You can't make everybody happy.
00:15:36.914 --> 00:15:38.804
You can only make yourself happy.
00:15:39.014 --> 00:15:42.284
I used to ask my clients, I'm a retired therapist.
00:15:42.674 --> 00:15:47.620
I, I say, well, let's say, people really like you.
00:15:48.070 --> 00:15:49.870
How does that make you feel better about yourself?
00:15:50.575 --> 00:15:52.825
I mean, you're not gonna necessarily know how much they like you.
00:15:53.095 --> 00:15:54.504
Why would that make you feel better?
00:15:54.565 --> 00:16:01.085
Like, really, I would say the real key to happiness is self-compassion.
00:16:01.774 --> 00:16:01.865
Mm-hmm.
00:16:02.465 --> 00:16:04.054
And compassion towards others.
00:16:04.475 --> 00:16:04.565
Mm-hmm.
00:16:04.804 --> 00:16:14.825
And a lot of times people think if I'm smarter, if my kid gets into the best school and all these objective things, then I'm gonna be happier.
00:16:15.095 --> 00:16:15.725
Well, guess what?
00:16:15.725 --> 00:16:16.544
It doesn't work that way.
00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:30.080
Yeah, you might have a temporary lift, but real happiness is when people are forgiving of themselves or others and they have compassion for themselves and others.
00:16:30.259 --> 00:16:31.940
That's the real self-esteem.
00:16:32.596 --> 00:16:34.522
that's a beautiful insight.
00:16:34.522 --> 00:16:35.241
I love that.
00:16:36.532 --> 00:16:44.152
I, I've hear, I've heard people, I would be happy if I lost 10 pounds and then they lose 10 pounds and then they go, wait, what happened?
00:16:45.022 --> 00:16:46.192
Hey, what happened?
00:16:46.192 --> 00:16:47.392
It was supposed to make me happier.
00:16:48.392 --> 00:16:50.552
maybe there's something good about it.
00:16:50.552 --> 00:16:52.981
I'm not saying that it's not something to strive for.
00:16:52.981 --> 00:17:03.751
we all need to strive for things that we find important, but happiness is not contingent necessarily on reaching the goal.
00:17:03.812 --> 00:17:07.082
It's on how you reach the goal and what you tell yourself.
00:17:08.342 --> 00:17:09.481
I think so too.
00:17:10.592 --> 00:17:19.201
So let, let's talk about some typical results, like what do you commonly help people with and what does the process look like from start to finish?
00:17:19.932 --> 00:17:27.031
If someone would come to my office and, and I do still see a few people online, and they would say, I had terrible week.
00:17:27.031 --> 00:17:29.102
I'm so upset, I'm so anxious.
00:17:30.001 --> 00:17:36.701
A very simple technique that I would use all the time and it was so effective is writing down what they said.
00:17:37.892 --> 00:17:42.152
I would write and I'd have like a whole page and I'm, I'm listening for about 10 minutes.
00:17:42.422 --> 00:17:50.821
I did this and that, and I'd ask questions and then write it down, and then I would say, okay, let's look at what you said.
00:17:51.751 --> 00:17:58.862
And almost if they were really depressed and anxious and stressed out, almost everything was irrational.
00:17:59.342 --> 00:18:02.642
And they didn't realize it because they're called ants.
00:18:03.001 --> 00:18:05.041
Automatic negative thoughts.
00:18:05.461 --> 00:18:11.011
They are so akin to our being, we have no idea that they're even irrational.
00:18:12.001 --> 00:18:18.152
So an example would be, my, spouse made me so mad, my kids drove me crazy.
00:18:18.152 --> 00:18:18.692
that kind of stuff.
00:18:18.692 --> 00:18:19.332
So I'd write that down.
00:18:19.997 --> 00:18:22.007
Is that fact or is that fiction?
00:18:22.217 --> 00:18:26.086
I would ask them and they said, well, okay, maybe it's an exaggeration.
00:18:26.507 --> 00:18:30.946
I said, well, when you exaggerate, your feelings are also exaggerated negatively.
00:18:32.582 --> 00:18:39.061
So they started to then identify what some of the thoughts were.
00:18:39.632 --> 00:18:45.902
And then I said, well, let's change the thought to a healthier thought instead of My kids drive me crazy.
00:18:46.531 --> 00:18:54.886
I'm very stressed out when my children, don't do their homework or, be specific rather than general and.
00:18:56.207 --> 00:18:59.656
By modeling to them how to catch your thoughts.
00:18:59.656 --> 00:18:59.747
Mm-hmm.
00:19:00.136 --> 00:19:02.446
How to make them not so automatic.
00:19:02.747 --> 00:19:02.866
Mm-hmm.
00:19:03.106 --> 00:19:04.126
That helped a lot.
00:19:04.547 --> 00:19:13.067
Another technique, which is actually from A.C.T. Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, which was founded by Steven Hayes.
00:19:13.662 --> 00:19:19.692
Is distance yourself from those thoughts, observe them instead of think from them, you look at them.
00:19:19.932 --> 00:19:20.021
Mm-hmm.
00:19:20.082 --> 00:19:32.561
So just imagine those negative thoughts being on like leafs on a stream or clouds in the sky, or a ticker tape at a movie theater and you watch it rather than looking from it.
00:19:33.612 --> 00:19:37.332
There I go again thinking I'm a failure rather than I'm a failure.
00:19:37.932 --> 00:19:47.711
So one is you believe everything you think, and I love that saying that I heard years ago, I don't even know who said it, but don't believe everything you think.
00:19:51.636 --> 00:19:53.446
Just love that you think it doesn't make it so.
00:19:54.551 --> 00:19:55.422
Exactly.
00:19:55.422 --> 00:20:01.241
It's just like everything you read on the internet is true in the news.
00:20:01.301 --> 00:20:04.152
That's a whole other story of the fake news and whatever.
00:20:04.392 --> 00:20:05.291
Won't even go there.
00:20:05.531 --> 00:20:05.832
Yeah.
00:20:05.832 --> 00:20:07.061
We don't need to go there.
00:20:07.061 --> 00:20:11.102
But it's just a lot of information going by that's meaningless.
00:20:12.182 --> 00:20:12.662
Exactly.
00:20:13.231 --> 00:20:13.652
Yeah.
00:20:14.642 --> 00:20:19.862
So not everyone finds it easy to change those long held emotional habits.
00:20:19.862 --> 00:20:23.612
Some listeners might be in the middle of a very tough chapter right now.
00:20:23.612 --> 00:20:29.461
When someone is really struggling, deeply overwhelmed, mentally exhausted, or convinced, nothing can change.
00:20:29.461 --> 00:20:31.826
What do you recommend as a starting point for them?
00:20:32.616 --> 00:20:35.257
So I think self-help books help a lot.
00:20:35.261 --> 00:20:35.672
Mm-hmm.
00:20:35.757 --> 00:20:40.297
Of course, I would love everybody to get mine, but there's plenty of self-help books out there.
00:20:40.896 --> 00:20:46.317
And, for example, I'll give you examples from my self-help books because I've written a lot of them.
00:20:46.467 --> 00:20:48.596
But, let's talk about the CBT one.
00:20:48.987 --> 00:20:53.017
I, You don't just like read about how to think more healthy.
00:20:53.346 --> 00:21:02.646
There's worksheets, there's handouts, there's logs, there's diaries, and so a lot of times people need structure.
00:21:02.767 --> 00:21:04.596
It's hard to do it on your own.
00:21:05.047 --> 00:21:09.366
So like if you say to something, well, just try not to think so negatively.
00:21:09.547 --> 00:21:10.057
Guess what?
00:21:10.057 --> 00:21:11.166
That's not gonna work.
00:21:11.557 --> 00:21:15.307
But if you say, okay, write down your thought.
00:21:15.967 --> 00:21:18.156
Write down your feeling and your.
00:21:19.011 --> 00:21:26.021
Your, reaction, your behavior and then write down a healthier thought.
00:21:26.021 --> 00:21:27.582
This is all on a log now.
00:21:27.912 --> 00:21:30.432
And then what's the effect of healthier thinking?
00:21:30.642 --> 00:21:44.201
So you actually learn how to change that thought with a, cognitive CBT diary, for example, are, I have worksheets in my, my books on.
00:21:45.261 --> 00:21:49.071
what is, temporary thinking versus permanent thinking?
00:21:49.372 --> 00:21:52.372
How to use I statements in communicating.
00:21:52.701 --> 00:21:52.791
Mm-hmm.
00:21:53.031 --> 00:21:55.311
Not just to other people, but to yourself.
00:21:55.551 --> 00:21:55.701
Mm-hmm.
00:21:56.241 --> 00:22:00.801
Rather than you statements instead of, I shouldn't be that way.
00:22:00.832 --> 00:22:04.281
That's actually a "you" statement to yourself because you have the shoulds.
00:22:04.892 --> 00:22:14.011
So a way to change that is I am this way and this is what I would like to change, rather than I should be that way.
00:22:14.221 --> 00:22:30.392
So it's a lot of, Work, like if you're going to a therapist and just like if you go to a personal trainer once a week, but you don't train or do anything in the middle, you're not gonna be very physically fit.
00:22:30.662 --> 00:22:40.797
But if you use therapy, like a personal trainer for your mind, and in the middle you need to do exercises, you need to do diaries, you need to do logs.
00:22:40.977 --> 00:22:55.826
So I would say my biggest advice to people is find the type of log, or diary or self-help worksheets that you do over and over and over again.
00:22:56.126 --> 00:22:59.787
'cause just 'cause you know it doesn't mean you're able to incorporate it.
00:23:00.116 --> 00:23:05.037
And so that's what self-help books do, and mine certainly does.
00:23:05.307 --> 00:23:08.666
It gives the tools of how to do all this.
00:23:09.757 --> 00:23:17.136
The thing that triggered in my is like, try not to be so negative or try not to be whatever it is.
00:23:17.136 --> 00:23:20.977
But whenever you throw not in a sentence, your subconscious puts it away.
00:23:20.977 --> 00:23:23.227
And here is try to be more negative.
00:23:24.606 --> 00:23:24.906
Right.
00:23:24.997 --> 00:23:30.787
And also it's hard to try to be something that's not.
00:23:31.192 --> 00:23:31.251
Yeah.
00:23:32.182 --> 00:23:32.692
Positive.
00:23:32.692 --> 00:23:32.751
Yeah.
00:23:32.781 --> 00:23:36.622
Like it's better to think this is my goal and this is what I'm gonna do.
00:23:36.622 --> 00:23:36.682
Yeah.
00:23:36.922 --> 00:23:40.582
So let's say you want to avoid the cognitive distortions.
00:23:40.731 --> 00:23:45.382
Some people have a more dramatic way of thinking about things.
00:23:45.382 --> 00:23:47.332
So things are all or nothing.
00:23:47.332 --> 00:23:49.372
And the end of the world.
00:23:49.372 --> 00:24:17.912
And I'll never forget when I was at a youth guidance center early in my career, I was generally in private practice, but this is very early on when I was in my twenties, and this girl, this is before cell phones, this girl was brought into a, my clinic and I saw her, by police because she ran in front of a car 'cause she didn't wanna live anymore after her boyfriend broke up with her.
00:24:18.592 --> 00:24:19.102
Oh my goodness.
00:24:19.102 --> 00:24:31.162
It is actually very true, and the car stopped and the person that was in the house called the police and came over and she was crying and sobbing and miserable.
00:24:31.162 --> 00:24:46.037
I don't wanna live, and I talked to her and she again said things that I wrote down, nothing without'em, I will never love again.
00:24:46.037 --> 00:24:47.537
All this, all this stuff.
00:24:48.376 --> 00:24:50.987
And I said, do you think that's really true?
00:24:51.537 --> 00:24:53.156
You're 17 years old.
00:24:53.426 --> 00:24:58.646
I know it's very painful, but where's the evidence that that's true?
00:24:59.037 --> 00:25:00.297
Well, no, maybe not.
00:25:00.356 --> 00:25:07.781
So she had a very dramatic way of thinking about things, and I taught her other thought habits.
00:25:08.051 --> 00:25:14.051
I gave her worksheets on what is unhealthy thinking versus healthy thinking.
00:25:14.172 --> 00:25:15.672
And she said, yep, that's me.
00:25:15.672 --> 00:25:16.392
All these things.
00:25:16.392 --> 00:25:17.352
That's what I'm thinking.
00:25:17.592 --> 00:25:23.021
I said, well, let's work on changing your thoughts because you're not thinking very clearly.
00:25:23.352 --> 00:25:25.842
Well, about three weeks later, she had another boyfriend.
00:25:25.842 --> 00:25:26.981
She was feeling fine.
00:25:27.311 --> 00:25:29.051
She didn't even wanna go to therapy anymore.
00:25:29.382 --> 00:25:31.301
So, like she learned.
00:25:31.332 --> 00:25:34.602
I'm not saying she didn't have problems down the road, I don't know.
00:25:34.916 --> 00:25:38.517
But all I know is that I taught her some skills.
00:25:40.356 --> 00:25:44.676
some people have more of styles that need it more.
00:25:44.886 --> 00:25:48.336
Now there's something called dialectic behavior therapy.
00:25:49.221 --> 00:25:49.642
Mm-hmm.
00:25:49.721 --> 00:25:51.307
Which is great for borderlines.
00:25:51.307 --> 00:25:52.237
It was actually.
00:25:52.876 --> 00:25:54.426
kind of invented, mm-hmm.
00:25:54.676 --> 00:26:00.557
by Marshall Lenahan for people who were high risk kind of behavior, extreme.
00:26:01.096 --> 00:26:15.836
and, and, DBT dialectic behavior therapy dialectic means opposite Uhhuh, how you, I love you, I hate you, like this extreme kind of emotions that people get and what.
00:26:16.751 --> 00:26:22.902
DBT does is it uses cognitive behavior therapy, but it's softened with mindfulness.
00:26:23.531 --> 00:26:23.622
Mm-hmm.
00:26:23.862 --> 00:26:30.612
And focus on being able to experience now what are you feeling?
00:26:30.942 --> 00:26:35.321
How, what are your sensations to take you out of the drama?
00:26:35.862 --> 00:26:44.067
So that's in my books also because, that has been very helpful to people who need to what's called emotionally regulate.
00:26:45.586 --> 00:26:48.166
'cause some people have a hard time doing it on their own.
00:26:48.527 --> 00:26:48.767
Yeah.
00:26:48.767 --> 00:26:51.717
Is that in your latest book, the one on CCP t?
00:26:51.717 --> 00:26:51.771
Yes.
00:26:52.156 --> 00:26:52.576
Okay.
00:26:52.696 --> 00:26:53.836
I'll make sure.
00:26:54.166 --> 00:26:55.186
Yeah, sorry.
00:26:55.186 --> 00:27:01.517
I'll make sure that the link is in the show notes so people can go directly to it and get it.
00:27:01.517 --> 00:27:02.057
Mm-hmm.
00:27:02.376 --> 00:27:03.606
I love CBT.
00:27:03.656 --> 00:27:06.896
CBT is kind of the cornerstone of a lot of therapies.
00:27:07.287 --> 00:27:07.436
Mm-hmm.
00:27:07.676 --> 00:27:11.396
And DBT is one of them, that's one of the quadrants.
00:27:11.517 --> 00:27:16.586
There's, there's like basically four major things in DBT and CBT is one of them.
00:27:16.916 --> 00:27:17.007
Mm-hmm.
00:27:17.196 --> 00:27:20.076
but then there's the mindfulness, there's emotional regulation.
00:27:20.211 --> 00:27:20.632
Mm-hmm.
00:27:20.731 --> 00:27:27.031
And, distress tolerance, tolerating, and so they're all hands on tips.
00:27:27.031 --> 00:27:28.832
And that's all in my book too.
00:27:29.251 --> 00:27:37.981
because it's all hands on, practical tips for living when you don't feel like you're empowered.
00:27:38.797 --> 00:27:39.126
Yeah.
00:27:39.126 --> 00:27:45.007
A lot of, a lot of people in the healing arts empaths, they don't feel empowered because.
00:27:46.067 --> 00:27:58.311
I mean, empath for example, is pulled this way and that by everybody's moods and emotions and it's very disempowering to not be able to stand there and say, this is me, and that's you.
00:27:58.761 --> 00:28:00.652
It's really hard to distinguish.
00:28:00.652 --> 00:28:09.051
So this work sounds like it's excellent for those of us that are healers, empaths, highly sensitive people.
00:28:09.096 --> 00:28:09.186
Mm-hmm.
00:28:10.477 --> 00:28:10.807
Yes.
00:28:11.287 --> 00:28:11.977
Absolutely.
00:28:12.606 --> 00:28:15.576
So you've been doing this work for about four decades.
00:28:15.576 --> 00:28:18.186
What, what is it that makes or more now?
00:28:18.186 --> 00:28:20.616
I'm, I'm retired now from my therapy practice.
00:28:20.646 --> 00:28:21.277
Yeah.
00:28:21.396 --> 00:28:22.146
Okay.
00:28:22.297 --> 00:28:23.136
Getting older.
00:28:23.287 --> 00:28:28.967
Getting older, So what makes your approach different from other CBT focused clinicians and teachers?
00:28:30.436 --> 00:28:31.426
I have no idea.
00:28:31.487 --> 00:28:35.287
I don't know other people that well, of what they do in therapy.
00:28:35.346 --> 00:28:40.797
I don't know, but I would say that I have a lot of resources, like on my website.
00:28:40.977 --> 00:28:42.836
I have a lot of free resources.
00:28:42.836 --> 00:28:53.727
I, I always would give clients homework and, and different things because, and I, and I love to speak, and I have done since COVID not too much.
00:28:54.086 --> 00:29:01.557
but I always kind of made the learning come alive because.
00:29:02.922 --> 00:29:06.071
I didn't just talk, I had people experience.
00:29:06.251 --> 00:29:14.332
So I do have like a focus on experiential learning and I would say, a lot of people don't necessarily have that.
00:29:14.951 --> 00:29:17.801
but a lot of people might do it more than me.
00:29:18.551 --> 00:29:18.801
I don't know.
00:29:18.801 --> 00:29:18.811
Yeah.
00:29:18.811 --> 00:29:20.142
I don't compare myself to anybody else.
00:29:20.501 --> 00:29:25.751
Well, I listened to some of your interviews before and Oh, cool.
00:29:25.842 --> 00:29:33.461
Uh, I, yeah, I found, I found that your Examples and interactive style and mm-hmm.
00:29:33.701 --> 00:29:42.251
All of that, like extremely engaging and drawing people in so they can see themselves like, oh, I've said that.
00:29:43.076 --> 00:29:46.436
And I've done that and Oh yeah, you're, she's right.
00:29:47.007 --> 00:29:51.836
So I, I think that this is really helpful because a lot of people don't do that.
00:29:51.896 --> 00:29:52.346
Yeah.
00:29:53.396 --> 00:29:53.636
Yeah.
00:29:53.636 --> 00:30:12.987
It's funny, I, I remember speaking a while ago somewhere, and the person who hired me to speak at this, conference, when I would talk about, This particular thing we talk about communication, workplace communication, and I talked about rhetorical questions like didn't I already tell you that?
00:30:13.047 --> 00:30:15.477
They're actually put downs disguised as questions.
00:30:15.537 --> 00:30:15.957
Yes.
00:30:15.957 --> 00:30:17.126
So that's like practical.
00:30:17.457 --> 00:30:22.586
And she said, told me afterwards, she said, I was sort of horrified as I was listening to you.
00:30:22.616 --> 00:30:26.757
'cause just this morning before the conference, I did that in my emails.
00:30:27.656 --> 00:30:28.497
I did those kind of things.
00:30:28.616 --> 00:30:32.487
So I, I, I do like to use a lot of practical examples.
00:30:32.696 --> 00:30:32.787
Mm-hmm.
00:30:33.027 --> 00:30:36.386
Because a lot of people use them, a lot of people use rhetorical questions.
00:30:36.696 --> 00:30:37.507
what's wrong with you?
00:30:38.076 --> 00:30:38.376
Yeah.
00:30:38.376 --> 00:30:40.507
Or they, it just, why are you acting that way?
00:30:40.807 --> 00:30:52.612
They, it's like a knee jerk reaction that they've heard their whole life and they don't realize how damaging it is to them and to the people around them, and they don't realize the question is just to put down.
00:30:52.942 --> 00:30:54.261
Yeah, just being critical.
00:30:54.622 --> 00:30:56.787
It's, and the less judgmental we can be.
00:30:56.967 --> 00:30:57.386
Mm-hmm.
00:30:57.471 --> 00:30:59.392
The healthier we're gonna be for others.
00:30:59.842 --> 00:31:07.481
Now, obviously people shouldn't kill and, beat you up and that kind of stuff, but we're talking about personality characteristics.
00:31:07.751 --> 00:31:09.882
The least judgmental we are, the better.
00:31:10.632 --> 00:31:20.521
Yeah, the more accepting, the more loving, no matter what I, I have this image and, 'cause I'm into all this, like, hands-on visualizations.
00:31:20.882 --> 00:31:26.281
I love this image that I have of, and I learned it from someone else.
00:31:26.711 --> 00:31:28.511
I'm not taking credit for.
00:31:28.882 --> 00:31:36.231
originating it, but it's been very powerful and I've used it for years now is, let's say you have like a $20 bill and you crumple it up.
00:31:36.692 --> 00:31:52.526
As we get older, as we get into our fifties, sixties, seventies, and we feel creased and we have little, disappointments in our lives and big disappointments and we have losses and whatever, sometimes we feel like we're not as worthy.
00:31:53.007 --> 00:31:55.856
And we're all kind of crushed and folded.
00:31:55.977 --> 00:32:03.676
And so in like a seminar, I would say, okay, let's say, you make mistakes, you failed, you have regrets.
00:32:04.277 --> 00:32:10.457
And then I say, all right, let's open up this $20 bill, not crush it fold it anymore.
00:32:10.817 --> 00:32:11.777
How much is it worth?
00:32:12.616 --> 00:32:20.326
And it's still worth the same no matter how much we're crushed and we lose and we fail or whatever.
00:32:20.807 --> 00:32:23.477
We're still as beautiful as the day we were born.
00:32:23.537 --> 00:32:23.626
Mm-hmm.
00:32:24.287 --> 00:32:29.896
And so many times people forget that because of all those creases and folds in their lives.
00:32:30.017 --> 00:32:31.846
So I love that as an image.
00:32:32.507 --> 00:32:33.586
That's, I love that too.
00:32:33.977 --> 00:32:35.352
Thank you worthy, no matter.
00:32:35.652 --> 00:32:36.071
Mm-hmm.
00:32:36.287 --> 00:32:42.146
We, we all have the same worth, just as we did when we were a baby in the nursery.
00:32:42.717 --> 00:32:42.987
Yeah.
00:32:43.271 --> 00:32:45.910
I, I always say God doesn't make mistakes.
00:32:46.653 --> 00:32:46.923
Right.
00:32:46.923 --> 00:32:48.844
You are the beautiful divine being.
00:32:48.844 --> 00:32:50.104
God doesn't make mistakes.
00:32:50.104 --> 00:32:51.364
You're here for a reason.
00:32:52.203 --> 00:32:52.294
Mm-hmm.
00:32:52.534 --> 00:32:52.804
Right.
00:32:52.864 --> 00:32:59.763
And I know that's a little on the religious side, but it's one of those things because I, I am very different.
00:32:59.763 --> 00:33:04.864
I did all boy things, i became a scientist.
00:33:04.864 --> 00:33:06.903
I did a lot of sports.
00:33:06.903 --> 00:33:08.134
I was a runner.
00:33:08.134 --> 00:33:09.394
I lift weights.
00:33:09.394 --> 00:33:11.673
I do all of this boy stuff and I thought.
00:33:12.499 --> 00:33:13.759
What's wrong with me?
00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:15.739
Why don't I like women's stuff?
00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:20.679
And so then I go, nothing's wrong with me, God, made me, what am I doing?
00:33:20.679 --> 00:33:21.949
Do questioning God?
00:33:22.638 --> 00:33:29.628
And so that kind of thought brought me through thinking that, I, I was a mistake and no, I'm just different.
00:33:31.784 --> 00:33:39.104
Well, and I look at it as mistakes are what you need to do to succeed.
00:33:39.854 --> 00:33:40.334
Exactly.
00:33:40.384 --> 00:33:41.284
we're human.
00:33:41.703 --> 00:34:00.003
when my clients would tell me about, all these things that they did and regrets that they have, I said, what, it just makes you more human and hopefully it increases your sensitivity in others who are also dealing with adversity and it can increase your empathy.
00:34:00.304 --> 00:34:05.854
So I don't really, I I, mistakes are okay.
00:34:07.324 --> 00:34:08.943
It's not like there's no mistakes.
00:34:08.943 --> 00:34:09.693
I don't believe that.
00:34:09.693 --> 00:34:11.014
I think there's a lot of mistakes.
00:34:11.074 --> 00:34:12.423
I made a lot of mistakes.
00:34:12.514 --> 00:34:15.603
I would've done things differently if I knew better at the time.
00:34:16.173 --> 00:34:23.704
But I've seen so many clients that were wearing the past, like a backpack.
00:34:24.603 --> 00:34:33.753
And it was so heavy because of their failed marriage and their poor choices and getting into drugs and all this stuff.
00:34:34.204 --> 00:34:42.753
And I would try to help them forgive themselves for not knowing then what they knew now.
00:34:42.759 --> 00:34:43.119
Mm-hmm.
00:34:43.653 --> 00:34:51.454
And also to not having the foresight to what's now so obvious in hindsight.
00:34:52.054 --> 00:34:52.804
Exactly.
00:34:52.833 --> 00:34:52.954
And.
00:34:53.523 --> 00:34:58.864
That has been very helpful to people because we're all works in progress.
00:34:59.313 --> 00:34:59.403
Mm-hmm.
00:34:59.643 --> 00:35:06.693
And in all my years of being a therapist and being a person, I've never met someone who actually wanted to be dysfunctional.
00:35:07.414 --> 00:35:07.954
Correct.
00:35:07.954 --> 00:35:09.844
And they don't wanna hurt other people.
00:35:09.844 --> 00:35:12.063
And they wanna have great relationships.
00:35:12.423 --> 00:35:13.443
They wanna be loved.
00:35:14.824 --> 00:35:17.409
They might hurt other people because they don't mm-hmm.
00:35:17.699 --> 00:35:20.914
Don't, they don't want, they don't either know any better or they're just mm-hmm.
00:35:21.213 --> 00:35:26.134
Well, they, they wanna, they just don't know any different Yeah.
00:35:26.134 --> 00:35:27.753
And they don't know what they're doing.
00:35:28.534 --> 00:35:28.804
Correct.
00:35:28.804 --> 00:35:30.724
So the more enlightened we get.
00:35:32.643 --> 00:35:38.724
Unfortunately, as you get older, you get wiser, but it doesn't do you as much good as they did when I was younger, but whatever.
00:35:39.083 --> 00:35:39.653
I'll take it out.
00:35:39.653 --> 00:35:40.043
Exactly.
00:35:40.764 --> 00:35:41.063
Yeah.
00:35:41.063 --> 00:35:44.153
I remember when I was younger, I was always anxious.
00:35:44.153 --> 00:35:46.434
I was chewing the inside of my mouth.
00:35:46.434 --> 00:35:51.833
I was like holding myself really stiffly, and now I think, wow, who was that?
00:35:52.403 --> 00:35:54.324
I wish I was like that.
00:35:54.563 --> 00:35:56.514
Back then instead of now.
00:35:56.664 --> 00:35:59.494
But it's, but you wouldn't have ended up the way you are now.
00:35:59.643 --> 00:36:00.994
Yes, exactly.
00:36:01.389 --> 00:36:03.603
So we, we all have to, we all do the best we can.
00:36:03.844 --> 00:36:04.293
Right?
00:36:04.293 --> 00:36:08.373
We have to go through the steps, to become who we are now.
00:36:09.304 --> 00:36:09.393
Mm-hmm.
00:36:09.873 --> 00:36:12.844
So, no, there's no, there's no turning back the clock.
00:36:12.903 --> 00:36:17.014
There's only no living now and moving forward with what we've learned.
00:36:17.614 --> 00:36:18.873
Yes, exactly.
00:36:18.873 --> 00:36:21.963
So I love this conversation.
00:36:21.963 --> 00:36:23.284
This was wonderful.
00:36:23.284 --> 00:36:24.784
And yes.
00:36:24.784 --> 00:36:25.398
Well, thank you.
00:36:25.864 --> 00:36:26.403
Yes.
00:36:26.403 --> 00:36:36.423
And what, what's like one last tip for someone who feels drained or defeated, what's a single best tip you could offer them right now besides getting your book?
00:36:38.588 --> 00:36:47.481
There's always hope and never forget how beautiful you are, even though you might feel like that crumpled bill.
00:36:48.592 --> 00:36:49.012
Yeah.
00:36:49.251 --> 00:36:49.851
Oh yes.
00:36:49.851 --> 00:36:51.322
I love that analogy.
00:36:51.322 --> 00:36:52.371
It's so beautiful.
00:36:52.762 --> 00:36:58.311
So Judy, thank you so much for sharing such powerful, practical tools with us today.
00:36:58.461 --> 00:36:58.641
Thank you.
00:36:59.001 --> 00:37:05.632
I know so many listeners are walking away with new clarity and breathing room and to remember that.
00:37:05.632 --> 00:37:07.041
Thank you very much Yeah.
00:37:07.041 --> 00:37:07.581
For having me.
00:37:08.032 --> 00:37:09.206
Yo, you're most welcome.
00:37:09.407 --> 00:37:10.757
I enjoyed our conversation.
00:37:10.757 --> 00:37:11.206
Thank you.
00:37:11.257 --> 00:37:13.746
Thank you for listening to break free from the burnout.
00:37:14.512 --> 00:37:19.612
Resources and show notes are available at break free from the burnout.com.
00:37:19.672 --> 00:37:30.081
Until next time, I'm Dr. Anastasia Chopelas, sending you golden healing, light and success vibes to becoming aligned, confident, and prosperous.
00:37:30.501 --> 00:37:33.875
Your gifts are so needed in this world.
