BNC 013B
Trip: [00:00:00] Hey there. Welcome back to the brave new workforce. I'm your host Tripp, Odell, and I am joined as always by my Intrepid. Co-hosts Larry cornet and Anna Kadina Anna. Larry, how are you guys today? I'm good.
[00:00:22] Anna: [00:00:22] That sounded amazing trip. You did a really good job on that first intro. Imagine that.
[00:00:28] Trip: [00:00:28] Well, you make fun of my fancy equipment.
[00:00:30] So there
[00:00:31] Larry: [00:00:31] you go. Yeah. I want a fancy equipment like that.
[00:00:36] Trip: [00:00:36] I cheat all the time. That's the secret to my success.
[00:00:41] Larry: [00:00:41] That's his next book?
[00:00:42] Trip: [00:00:42] Yeah. Well, we
[00:00:45] Anna: [00:00:45] actually have a special guest today. Don't wait any
[00:00:47] Trip: [00:00:47] trip. Yeah. Yeah. So let's, let's, uh, let's set this up a bit. Today's episode is part of our special series on schools during the pandemic and what closures in quarantine are going to mean for the future of education, but also the next generation of knowledge workers in the information economy and how that crisis is already affecting K-12 schools.
[00:01:08] Very recent evidence from Israel in Indiana, and even a summer camp in Georgia. Suggests that keeping the schools closed is absolutely the right call districts are going a hundred percent remote. And the problem facing many teachers is how to take a system that was never intended to be remote online and replace it with laptops and zoom.
[00:01:34] So today we're joined by a very old friend of mine. She's a public middle school teacher at a very large school district outside Washington, DC. Um, We'll not be using her real name today because let's face it. Teachers simply can't win in this situation. So Beth, welcome to the show.
[00:01:54] Beth: [00:01:54] Oh, hi guys. I'm so excited to be here.
[00:01:57] I've learned so much from your podcast, so I'm excited to be a guest.
[00:02:02] Trip: [00:02:02] Yeah. I mean, so Beth is where to call you that. Um, and I know you probably love that name.
[00:02:10] Beth: [00:02:10] No, I do not.
[00:02:12] Anna: [00:02:12] You could have picked any name and you picked one, you don't
[00:02:15] Beth: [00:02:15] like, what, what is it?
[00:02:17] Trip: [00:02:17] I said,
[00:02:23] this is a podcast role is what it is. So, uh, what, so. Beth. Tell us a little bit about your experience, how you got into education. Cause we started, uh, teaching maybe within a year or two of each other. We both knew we want it to be teachers, but it was before we were teaching when we first met. But then you, you sort of worked really hard to get into the field and you've been in it for awhile.
[00:02:48] So tell us a little bit about that journey and schools you've taught in sort of credentials you've you've picked up along the way. And what do you love about it?
[00:02:58] Beth: [00:02:58] Um, we met trip and I met actually waiting tables. Um, so this was before trip taught or I taught and, um, I'm a career switcher and a lot of teachers kind of looked down on career switchers because they.
[00:03:16] I think that, you know, the only reason someone switching careers is because they have this grandiose view of what a teacher is going to be like. Um, so I tend not to say that, but I'm one of those successful career switchers in my life opinion. Um, I, after waiting tables, uh, before that I was riding horses professionally and decided that I really needed an education to fall back on during the time, um, I was always teaching people how to ride.
[00:03:49] And a lot of people were saying to me, wow, you're a great teacher. You're a great teacher. And actually when tripping our waiting tables, I got more interested. I've always been a history geek. So I got interested in history and put myself back to school, was taking some classes. Um, At a community college and actually had a professor there that was amazing.
[00:04:12] And he inspired me to go into, to be a history, social studies teacher. After I got my certification, I moved down to Florida and my, the first experience was teaching inner city. And it was really, really difficult, but, um, I loved it cause I felt as though I was really making a difference currently, I now teach, um, in the DC area and I teach the kids that are identified as gifted and talented.
[00:04:40] And I also teach honors level. And when I look back, I, I say to myself, you know, I think I made more of a difference in Florida teaching inner city than I'm doing now with the. More of the well, the do population and the people that have tested into the gifted and talented program.
[00:04:59] Trip: [00:04:59] Well, that, that's interesting because, um, you know, we have that problem in the local district here in Seattle is that the, the demography of gifted and talented skews significantly, you know, sort of a fluent.
[00:05:13] Upper middle class white, you know, there, there isn't statistical representation, uh, you know, across that, right. So there's, there's definitely a wealth element to that. And I think that gets to some of these questions around the challenges of working remote. And I think we can get to that later, but like in particular, like one of the things that have really shut us down this year, uh, is this question of equity.
[00:05:37] Like they were surprised to learn how many kids did not have. Internet connections or computers available to learn on zoom. And so the district, or, you know, between the district and the union, they forbade teachers from instructing online. It was more sort of a social check-in. Uh, so have you encountered that as well?
[00:05:56] I mean, cause it's kind of a, an equity problem across the board.
[00:06:01] Beth: [00:06:01] Um, I haven't countered. Them telling me not to teach online. It's more of, we had problems with the platform we were using in the beginning. And the security of it. And we had told the powers that be that we were afraid about the security and they kind of said, you know, it's fine.
[00:06:24] It's fine. So we went along with it and then there was major security issues.
[00:06:30] Trip: [00:06:30] So, so are we talking about zoom? Just tell me we're talking about zoom because
[00:06:33] Beth: [00:06:33] no, we're not. No. Okay. W we weren't allowed to use zoom and, um, because of. Because they said zoom wasn't secure. And then the platform that we used, um, it wasn't secure either.
[00:06:49] So that we found out what kids can do online and it wasn't good.
[00:06:57] Larry: [00:06:57] They are, they're very creative arts.
[00:07:00] Beth: [00:07:00] Yes. And, and us older teachers are not as creative as they are. So we did know that there was the chance of them not behaving properly, but we didn't know to the extent that it would be. So they closed us down for about two weeks to fix the, the patch it up, try to fix it.
[00:07:21] And then you were teaching online, um, two days a week. So, I mean, I was working like crazy 24 seven and couldn't sleep because I'm thinking about, you know, the, all these things, I don't know. And how, and I know that parents are watching me and, you know, administrators could pop into my online class and it was, it was pretty stressful, but.
[00:07:50] They wanted us to teach online. We just had some problems getting it safe.
[00:07:55] Larry: [00:07:55] Did they ever bring in outside consultants to help teach the staff and administration how to use these tools or set them up more securely?
[00:08:04] Beth: [00:08:04] Um, not that I know.
[00:08:06] Larry: [00:08:06] Yeah. I was afraid of that.
[00:08:09] Beth: [00:08:09] They had it, they wanted to blame somebody.
[00:08:12] So they had a huge meeting and the head of technology ended up. Resigning through all of this. So,
[00:08:22] Trip: [00:08:22] you know, it's really a shame because I think a lot of school districts, I mean, there's a lot of critique of what in modern public education. I mean, there's, there's people that like you have switched careers or era or went into it, uh, initially, because they want to be with the kids, they have this talent, they have this vocation to teach, but then at the systems level, you've got.
[00:08:44] The textbook companies or the technology vendors sort of like dictating and directing is like our software doesn't work like that. So you can't teach in the right way for your kids. And, Oh, by the way, like, as there been inservice training on distance learning any of these things
[00:09:01] Beth: [00:09:01] Mmm. They've thrown a whole lot of training at us, and it gets to the point where we're overloaded with all of these different things that are approved by the County.
[00:09:13] And. One of the things in the spring is through the fix of this program. They were sending each kid linked to each class individually, and the kids have what? Eight classes. So kids were getting really overwhelmed. They didn't know where to go. And. We wanted to keep it simple. Um, but we also want it to be creative.
[00:09:39] So at times I think it's hard to keep it simple plus be creative at the same time. So,
[00:09:46] Trip: [00:09:46] so how did the, how did your lesson planning change at all? Because it sounds like. You're doing two days a week, but it's almost like the only thing that's missing is the bell to move from classroom to classroom is, I mean, are these stacked back-to-back-to-back, are you recording anything or are there, like, how do you interact with the kids?
[00:10:03] Like, are these, they have their cameras on like, what's what's happening? Like, how is this, what are they trying to make exactly the same and what's different.
[00:10:12] Beth: [00:10:12] Um, one of the main things that's different is we can't require kids to have cameras or Mike's on. So I did a lot of talking at the computer, you know, saying Bueller Bueller, like where I didn't even know if kids were in the room.
[00:10:28] Larry: [00:10:28] Yeah. It's hard. That is so hard.
[00:10:30] Beth: [00:10:30] The visual part of teaching, which I've now come to realize is so important to actually see the kids' reactions. Isn't there. Um, and that's one of my concerns about the fall. Um, as for designing lessons, it was a lot of what can I do to keep them active? Like I tried to, I would have, you know, a Google slides or a power, uh, ancient PowerPoint that I've updated and just have them.
[00:11:06] Um, go back to Google classroom, go into links. There was a chat feature, um, that they all could participate in, but own, it was like in class, there won't be a few kids participating. So I, it was really difficult. So I'm a little stressed about the fall,
[00:11:26] Trip: [00:11:26] you know, I'm imagining it's cause I'm watching Anna sort of on camera right now and watching, because Anna had a very untraditional education.
[00:11:35] Beth: [00:11:35] She was wiring the tanks in the jungle.
[00:11:38] Trip: [00:11:38] Yeah, exactly. She's wiring tanks in the jungle with her dad
[00:11:42] Beth: [00:11:42] that
[00:11:44] Trip: [00:11:44] and playing
[00:11:45] Larry: [00:11:45] I'm picturing her in camp. Yeah.
[00:11:47] Trip: [00:11:47] Yeah. And she's, she's playing find the live wire in the house. Uh, you know, uh, but I'm watching her, like, I'm just trying to imagine, like I'm watching her sort of like.
[00:11:58] As you're describing this, like, and I'm sure it's hard for you, like sitting through all of these meetings and trying to keep it engaging, trying to translate this thing into what's gonna work online and keeping the kids engaged and keeping them learning. Um, and, um, yeah, so, so you have a, you have something to say about that.
[00:12:19] Beth: [00:12:19] Like it's, I'm more of a, a dog and pony show in the classroom. So I jump around a lot and I. Sing songs and just act, you know, I'm, my teenager says, that's why all the students hate you. Um, I just act silly in order to keep their attention. And I tried to do that on camera, but it just, I didn't feel like it was working.
[00:12:42] I felt ridiculous. Cause I was
[00:12:45] Trip: [00:12:45] yeah.
[00:12:45] Beth: [00:12:45] Pulling in crops and pulling in props and like. Sound effects. And
[00:12:52] Trip: [00:12:52] so, I mean, that sounds amazing. I mean, because like I was that T I was that kid that was the slacker in school. But I think like for, for, you know, for somebody, I mean, and has worked remotely her entire career, and she had this sort of this non traditional thing.
[00:13:08] And I think like, there's this, and I'd love to hear your thoughts because I think there's a piece of this where. I mean, this is almost like a foreign concept of like imagining your younger self kind of going through this and that, the way that you've always worked with these remote tools, how would, how would this fit, like, would you feel that you would be the same, the same person working in a tech career?
[00:13:31] If this was the way that you had to learn and set of wiring tanks?
[00:13:36] Anna: [00:13:36] Well, again, I wasn't wiring tanks. You're making me sound like some sort of, I don't know,
[00:13:41] Beth: [00:13:41] a guerrilla
[00:13:42] Anna: [00:13:42] warfare out in the jungle
[00:13:45] Beth: [00:13:45] about to Revit,
[00:13:46] Anna: [00:13:46] like revolt against the government. And I'm not, I'm not like that. Okay. Um, well, when I was learning, uh, online, we did it via Skype and it wasn't, we
[00:13:56] Beth: [00:13:56] couldn't use.
[00:13:58] Or I don't
[00:13:58] Anna: [00:13:58] recall. We us using, um, webcam or anything like that. It was always audio is have basically a telephone call. Um, And I don't think Google sheets were even a thing. So collaborative things usually ended up being shared through email, on Excel sheet and documents in real time. And, um, the benefit here I think is I always had one on one teaching, so it wasn't like I could,
[00:14:23] Beth: [00:14:23] I felt like I couldn't Slack off
[00:14:25] Anna: [00:14:25] because if I wasn't answering, then my dad would hear
[00:14:28] Beth: [00:14:28] from.
[00:14:30] Anna: [00:14:30] From the very expensive classes that he was paying for. So, um,
[00:14:34] Beth: [00:14:34] I think
[00:14:35] Anna: [00:14:35] there was a little bit of a benefit there. Uh, just having that one on one model, a one to many model, I mean, I know of a teacher who
[00:14:43] Beth: [00:14:43] is teaching kindergarten students
[00:14:45] Anna: [00:14:45] and it's nearly impossible to get any kind of recognition in, in, in his class, you know?
[00:14:52] So, um, it's definitely tough for the remote. Learning a
[00:14:57] Beth: [00:14:57] to answer more specifically your question trip about being,
[00:15:00] Anna: [00:15:00] uh, remote and being. Uh, coming from a nontraditional background and learning. I think, you know, I, I had both the real life scenario as well as the online scenario. And I think it gave me a really good base balance to navigate, you know, consulting services across the ocean versus, and then coming into meetings in it locally.
[00:15:21] So I don't know if that really answers your question.
[00:15:25] Trip: [00:15:25] Well, I think, I think I'm just looking at this in terms of like you had the flexibility to choose tools and what Beth is describing is, I mean, it's great. I mean, every is much
[00:15:33] Beth: [00:15:33] more rigid. It sounds
[00:15:34] Anna: [00:15:34] difficult. Um, and especially the,
[00:15:37] Beth: [00:15:37] the, the security piece,
[00:15:39] Anna: [00:15:39] you know, there's a lot of concern there.
[00:15:42] Uh, not being able to see your students learning. Uh, I can, can only imagine how tedious that might be.
[00:15:49] Beth: [00:15:49] Yeah.
[00:15:49] Trip: [00:15:49] Well, and that, that's one of the things, you know, I mean, you guys, Larry, you homeschooled your children, um, you know, with your wife and, and, and you had sort of one-on-one, um, I didn't have that. I mean, I was a special ed kid.
[00:16:02] I was the kid out in the trailer. We, you know, we had smaller, we had smaller sections. Right. And so we could get that individually, super expensive. Beth, how many kids do you have in a second? Like have you been talked about how do you make it so that you can. Not maybe even individualized, but work with smaller groups.
[00:16:23] Um, like how many kids are you juggling in? How many sections are you covering?
[00:16:28] Beth: [00:16:28] Um, I typically have to teach five different sections and this year, um, my largest class was 34, so they're usually around 30. Um, If they're going to make them higher. They'll you know, say, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Um, and then put them in your class, but I really it's hard to do one-on-one when you're physically in the classroom.
[00:16:58] Um, I'm wondering if it may be easier to do a one on one, but. It's really hard to get teenagers show up for stuff they don't have to be at. Yeah. We took attendance in the spring, but we weren't grading. So those kids who I already have an a, I mean, rightly Oh, some of them were like, well, I don't need to go to class.
[00:17:22] And it's true. They would still have an a, but then I had some students that really. Busted their tails and came all the time and participated and did all the assignments and they had A's already as well. Well,
[00:17:36] Trip: [00:17:36] and that's one of the big things with, you know, in the world that we work in, which is remote is that accountability is a big, big deal.
[00:17:43] Like, I mean, it's, it's important in the work world, but we have tools like JIRA and some of these other. Software packages that you really are able to track, what, something, what, who is responsible for the next thing to be done on the project and what the status is and where it's round tripping. And if you're not keeping up with stuff, um, you're going to have a tough conversation.
[00:18:06] Uh, and it sounds like Anna, you had that similar sort of accountability in your, you know, there was no place to hide. And I think a lot of kids can end up hiding in the classroom in plain sight.
[00:18:18] Anna: [00:18:18] Yeah, I think the biggest thing for me, or the biggest critical factor here is I chose the classes that I wanted to learn.
[00:18:24] And my parents were supportive in, in cultivating that. So if I wanted to learn about math, for example, my father was really good at that. So he taught me himself. If I wanted to learn chemistry or English or something, they would hire out for that. Um, And same with my mother. I mean, she taught me a lot of counting and money saving and things like that, but these were all things that I wanted to learn.
[00:18:49] Um, she's quite different in a classroom setting.
[00:18:53] Larry: [00:18:53] You know, I have, like I said, my kids are homeschooled and now it's kind of a mix. So my son's in a charter school where he has some instruction and he has a lot of home education and he's, you know, he's a smart young kid. And he said, I don't need people to read to me or to lecture to me.
[00:19:10] I don't need that. What they need are office hours. And so he said, I can teach myself, I can read the book. I could watch a video, but what I'd love to have. And then we used to do some graduate school. We'd have open office hours. It's like I'm in ask questions. And I think that that works well. And then like you were talking about the checking in, I had a professor did this.
[00:19:29] He said, I'm going to trust you're doing it, but I'm going to test you every week. It's going to be a real short, lightweight test. And I'll know if you're on track and things are making sense to you. And if you're not, then we can dive deeper one-on-one or you can come to the office hours. But like you said, you don't want people falling through the cracks.
[00:19:46] And so you have to find some way to check in with people. I mean, it's just, you can't just hope that people are actually taking care of the material and reading it. You just can't.
[00:19:57] Beth: [00:19:57] And that's, that's funny that you mentioned that because we were required to have office hours and it became between all the teachers, like the biggest joke.
[00:20:06] We were like texting each other back and forth with like memes and things, because. Kids didn't come to office hours. So we're providing like our office hours were almost an hour long. We're providing that for him
[00:20:21] Larry: [00:20:21] and nobody shows up, huh?
[00:20:22] Beth: [00:20:22] No, nobody shows up. It was just, it, it became a joke.
[00:20:26] Trip: [00:20:26] Well, that's a culture thing too.
[00:20:29] Beth: [00:20:29] I think it's
[00:20:29] Anna: [00:20:29] a, a fundamental thing here that showcases,
[00:20:33] Beth: [00:20:33] um,
[00:20:33] Anna: [00:20:33] the system is broken. I mean, if, if children don't want to learn. Um, what are we doing to, to, from that? You know, because I think.
[00:20:44] Beth: [00:20:44] Yeah,
[00:20:45] Trip: [00:20:45] well, no, like, no, this is great. Okay. I think you're right. But I think there's, there's a layer of bolts around this because there's a, there is a, there's a piece of this where it's all getting, we're still kind of putting it on the teachers.
[00:20:58] Like the teachers aren't able to give this one on one. They're not able to give, you know, This lecture, they have to be, I mean, you're, you're working harder than ever. And you're supposed to be this guidance counselor and, you know, expert in your content area and this, uh, sort of doing daycare, but in these cultures where there's not accountability, right.
[00:21:20] There's not accountability for the kids. There's not accountability for the parents. Right. The parents. Yeah. And these are not the parents in this bond. In these wealthy
[00:21:30] Larry: [00:21:30] parents have to step up, right? Yeah.
[00:21:32] Trip: [00:21:32] In these wealthy districts, you have parents that are like you T you dread parent teacher conferences because they're coming in as like, why are you not giving my kid an a
[00:21:41] Beth: [00:21:41] they're all lawyered up.
[00:21:43] Trip: [00:21:43] Oh yeah.
[00:21:44] Beth: [00:21:44] Before you even have the conversation.
[00:21:47] Trip: [00:21:47] Exactly. So, so like the teachers that, that incentivizes, like not being accountable. So how does that prepare these kids for work or for this world?
[00:22:00] Beth: [00:22:00] And I might be taking us back to somewhere. We didn't want to go, but what was most interesting to me in listening to the F your first education podcast was, um, when Anna was talking about wiring tanks or whatever it was, um, it got into that interest based learning and a lot of the education system, in my opinion, Is throwing courses at kids that they don't really need.
[00:22:32] Um, they don't really want to learn. I think that comes down to that and Anna could pick what she wanted to learn and she didn't have to dread, Oh, I got to take, you know, so and so one Oh one and I'm not interested in it at all. And I think that's gotta get a lot of this complacency kids just aren't.
[00:22:55] Interested.
[00:22:56] Anna: [00:22:56] Yeah. I think one of the points here is why are we trying to teach a wide variety of topics to children who, or simply not interested? I think here, I mean, we hear parent from parents. I'm sure Larry, you got it too. It's like, if, if they don't know chemistry, how are they going to survive in the world and things like that.
[00:23:12] But I think the critical piece that we're missing here is that you're teaching your children how to learn. So if they're interested in something or if they have to get into
[00:23:20] Beth: [00:23:20] a job, A
[00:23:21] Anna: [00:23:21] prospect and they realize they don't fit three out of the five things. They can go off to the library or Google or whatever, and, and feel confident in being proactive in their own learning journey to get the right resources in their toolkit.
[00:23:36] However, I think if you have a
[00:23:38] Beth: [00:23:38] set curriculum right off the get
[00:23:40] Anna: [00:23:40] go, it can be kind of daunting to somebody who needs to think a little bit outside of the box on what kind of level of education. They need because, Oh, I didn't, I don't fit three out of five. So obviously I can't apply for this.
[00:23:55] Trip: [00:23:55] Well, and those are, those are our diamonds in coal mines, but I do want to get back to, um, Beth, uh, that you you've been, I mean, you, you made this change to your career.
[00:24:06] You you've had this long career you've, you've got your master's degree. Um, you know, from a very well respected. Institution for education, um, that, how long have you been doing this? And we can use round numbers. Uh, cause I we've been friends for a long time. Right? So like, I mean th the, the department of education, the state, you know, that the average teacher is a 42 year old woman with a master's degree and 10 or more years of experience.
[00:24:34] Would you say that that is under over, like where, where, where would you find yourself on that spectrum? I
[00:24:41] Beth: [00:24:41] am. Yeah, I wish I was 40. Um, I am older than that and I'm on 20 plus years, even though I went back and got my undergrad. When I was 30. So you can do the mass
[00:24:58] Trip: [00:24:58] well, and the, yeah, the interesting thing there too, is that like 61% of the teacher pool is at that meeting and above, like it it's definitely skews to older.
[00:25:11] So, you know, we've seen stories about teachers that are afraid to go back to schools. Like you have teachers that, like I was reading in the New York times today about. Teachers in Georgia where they're not doing social distancing, like it's just frightening amounts of like transmission. Like it's, it's it.
[00:25:30] And they already have active cases and people are still going to the school. PE teachers are retiring early, they're leaving. The unions are up in arms and. Because it's dangerous. It's dangerous for people, you know, our age and older. How many of your colleagues, like have you considered what you're going to do?
[00:25:48] If they force you to go back, like what's, what's going through your head and all this. Cause this is a, this is a career you love.
[00:25:56] Beth: [00:25:56] Um, I I'm at the point where all of that before we went virtual, Of for good, because we're going to do a hybrid where the kids went to class a couple of days, and some kids picked all virtual.
[00:26:11] We actually, my husband and I picked all virtual for my son. I went to a union online meeting because. In where I am we're right to work. And we're talking about, we got to be able to do collective bargaining. And one of the people that I was there actually asked, said, you know, after we're virtual and they force us to go back in, what are our, what can we do?
[00:26:40] I mean, I can't retire yet. Um, my son's still. He's a rising 10th grader. So we want to at least make sure he gets through college or halfway through college. Um, I can't really quit. So it's like, I guess I'll have to do what they tell me to do,
[00:27:03] Trip: [00:27:03] man.
[00:27:04] Larry: [00:27:04] That's just, that's just so unfortunate. It makes me so sad to hear this.
[00:27:09] Uh, and I had some friends going through it in other industries too, where they're being forced back into the office. And they're scared. They're terrified. And it's, I mean, we have somebody literally in the next town over I'm in a small community, she got sick with COVID. She was hospitalized, almost died.
[00:27:27] And I was like, well, she must be one of those risk population. She's 40. Perfect health exercises. Doesn't smoke, no preexisting conditions. She barely got out of there. And so it's like this isn't a joke. This thing is real. It's legitimate. We were just talking about Israel. They reopened Israel was at a hundred cases a day.
[00:27:47] That's it? And the entire country, they thought. We're at the bottom. We have it under control to put that in perspective. We're at 50 to 60,000 cases a day in the U S so Israel reopened the schools. And within a couple of weeks, they had to shut back down because it spread like wildfire. The teachers were getting sick, the students took it home.
[00:28:04] Their parents were getting sick. There's there's no doubt that it's going to spread like crazy. Once people are in classrooms for eight hours a day.
[00:28:12] Beth: [00:28:12] And the unfortunate thing is. Some people think we don't want to go back because we're lazy. So again, it's, it's, the public is now against the teachers.
[00:28:23] We're worried for our safety plus the safety of people in our home. And you know, my inlaws are 80 plus it's not about. I'm lazy. It's not about, I don't want to do my job. It's about, I'm afraid for my life. I, you know, I never thought as a teacher I'd be scared for my life, even when I taught inner city.
[00:28:47] Trip: [00:28:47] Yeah. I mean, we, we were running stats on this. I mean, we're, we're, we're looking at stuff like. Yeah, I I'm morbid and sort of a nerd. Uh, but you know, when you, so I started running statistics on this and you know, when you, when you put this in context in the, you know, 3.7 million teachers, K-12, uh, 57 million.
[00:29:10] Uh, you know, children or students at that level nationally, uh, if you take that whole population of 3.7 million and you start running the demographics statistics on COVID, you're talking about anywhere from 5,000 to 20,000 dead teachers in a year. Right. I mean, it's, it's, it's like, I mean, they talk about crab fishing, commercial, crab, fishing, being the deadliest thing.
[00:29:38] I mean, that's an excessive all workplace deaths by all causes by OSHA in an entire year and multiple times that it's more than all the combat deaths in Iraq, over eight years, it is criminal, um, that they would ask you to do that. And I think like one of the things, and you know, this is. Larry. And, and I know this, but I've never the, the either or the vanilla or chocolate I want pistachio.
[00:30:03] Right? Like I think there's other solutions out there, not just in terms of how you teach, but I think there's other options for teachers. I mean, there's, there's a lot of teachers that I know that have left the schools they're doing one-on-one there are parents willing to align up for a hundred dollars an hour.
[00:30:20] You know, that's a gross out of about $160,000 a year. And you get to work whenever you want and you get to go to the bathroom whenever you want. Like, that's the thing that people don't realize about teachers' zoom fatigue is that you, you go back to back to back just like it's a bell schedule. Cause you had to play in your bathroom, breaks around how many class, like when you had your break
[00:30:42] Beth: [00:30:42] and, um, One of the things that our County just came out with is there is a regulation about if people take a leave of absence, if they take a leave of absence from the County, they're not allowed to do any of those like pod things.
[00:30:57] They're not allowed to work in the same capacity. Um, Like tutoring. People think we're going to tutor like on our contract hours, which we wouldn't. Cause that would be stupid, but they're thinking, Oh, well, if teachers are tutoring, they're, you know, they're, they're making extra money and they're doing it.
[00:31:17] Trip: [00:31:17] Why don't you just say that you're a right to work state. I mean, that's, that's a, that's like, like where Larry, I used to live in California. Larry is in
[00:31:26] Larry: [00:31:26] California. Do that to people.
[00:31:28] Trip: [00:31:28] You can't do that. That's a, that's a, that's like a noncompete legal it's in a right to work state. That is absolutely illegal.
[00:31:35] Beth: [00:31:35] That's right. Oh, hours that be. Just, I mean, just sent out a big thing. It was just yesterday about all the regulations. So, and you don't, you don't know who to believe and in the end you still want to have your job. You do. I mean, this is your career. This is your reputation. Yeah, they could easily,
[00:31:57] Larry: [00:31:57] yeah. I never thought.
[00:32:00] I was just gonna say, I'd never thought there'd be black market teaching, but it is, it is literally, and I'm not going to name names of course, or even where they are. I know parents that are using money or pooling money. Parents are pulling money and hiring teachers, ex teachers to educate their children at home.
[00:32:18] And it's going to happen whether the state likes it or not, it's going to be black market. Oh, my gosh. We're we're black market, educating students. We are so horrible. I can help tell.
[00:32:28] Trip: [00:32:28] Yeah, absolutely. And I think like, just to put a cap on that, like I'm dyslexic, I can't spell it. Maybe, you know, Larry or Anna, Ken would be like, can you spell class action?
[00:32:37] Because I think like that, like go to the County, cause like get a good lawyer, lawyer. If you're listening, I can give you Beth's contact information on the down low. Like that should be, that should be like. Priority one, they it's a right to work state. They get, they don't get to dictate that kind of stuff.
[00:32:56] And I think that's one of the things that we talk a lot about on this podcast is this is a great thing because it allows people to. Have more freedom in their life. Um, and so like for teachers that are looking at this, it's not a binary solution that it's not binary for how the schools can work, but it's not binary for how extremely well experienced educators can run their career.
[00:33:19] Larry: [00:33:19] You know, in some way this mirrors, the discussion we've been having about remote work period. That people have been somewhat tied to an employer for their income, for their health insurance, for all kinds of stuff. Right. And it's been a local employer cause you have to go into the office and you have to commute.
[00:33:35] Now this has radically changed. Now everyone is working remotely. They just get on their laptop. They have an internet connection and they're working and now the light bulb is coming on saying. Oh, I can work from anywhere in the world for anyone in the world. And I know for a fact that people all over the world, not just the United States, want to hire American instructors to teach English and things like that, and they will pay you.
[00:34:00] And so this is the thing that I don't think people realize is that people need to make a living. There is demand. So if there are parents who want this and students who want this. It's not going to stop. There are going to be people that are trying to attract these instructors who are being left high and dry within the United States.
[00:34:19] And they're going to woo them. And they're going to say, will you educate my child? And now we continue to increase the education gap that we've seen, where the U S is trailing the rest of the world because we refuse to be flexible.
[00:34:32] Beth: [00:34:32] So a lot of the, um, teachers, when we had these big meetings with the superintendent, we're like, okay, Can we retire because there's a time limit when you can retire.
[00:34:43] And basically they said, yeah, no. So yeah, they said, no, you can't retire. And it's like, I'm even looking into retiring maybe in three years and going and teaching in another less. You know, fluent district and I have to find out what hoops I need to jump through in order to still get my retirement or have to pay back to them.
[00:35:14] So.
[00:35:17] Larry: [00:35:17] I know it's crazy. It's crazy that people are having to make that choice. And I just, I saw somebody post on LinkedIn about this, where they similar situation, their employers. Like we want you all to come back into the office and she said, I'm going to have. To quit. And I didn't want to have to do this in the middle of an economic crisis and a pandemic, but you're making me choose between my health, my child's health.
[00:35:40] And when it comes down to radical choice of survival, of course, I'm going to come down the side of the safety of my child and my own safety and people are talking about, well, the kids will be okay, they're not at risk. They're going to survive. It's like, how will the kids be doing when their parents pass away?
[00:35:55] When their uncles and aunts pass away, their grandparents pass away and they feel responsible. They're going to feel responsible and that death is going to impact them in traumatic ways. And people are just overlooking that. It's not something we can take lightly. I think we have to find a solution that allows us to give the kids what they need.
[00:36:14] To give the flexibility that lets people keep their jobs, but not risk their health. And I, and I'm going to say it again. Parents have to step up. That is one thing that's true about homeschool parents is that they clearly step up. I think everybody who's kids are in a public school system. We're not asking them to literally educate their children for eight hours a day, but step up and help.
[00:36:36] With the accountability, make sure your kids go into the office hours, make sure they're doing the material and the reading. Be part of it
[00:36:44] Trip: [00:36:44] again, though. Like, you know, let's pick pistachio again. Cause there's, there's, there's, there's a, there's a, there's a challenge here is that you have, I mean, there was okay.
[00:36:55] So there was this article in the Atlantic where this nurse who worked the pandemic, uh, is, is, is saying that. She worked the pandemic, you know, her husband is a New York city public school teacher. It's teacher's duty, they're shirking their duty, not going back. Right. And I did not, Oh yeah. A life, a life debt vow.
[00:37:20] I did not sign in and denture, you know, on a year to year basis. Like, there's a, there's a, like that's unfair, but I think Israel is also a reaction for people that. Don't have the ability to not go to work. Like they work in a service industry or they are firefighters or whatever, and they need something there.
[00:37:40] They can't leave their children at home. That's not, I mean, that's like, there are people that, okay, I have a white collar job, or I have an information economy, job. I can stay home. It's inconvenient, Blau, whatever. But there's also this group of kids that don't have those. They don't have those safety nets like Beth, what do you, what do you think of that?
[00:38:03] Beth: [00:38:03] The thing that concerns me, um, I mean, education has evolved itself to be a daycare. Basically, if you don't have childcare, you always could know if you had a, a school age child that they were going to be taken care of. Um, The education system has become that end all be all to society. Um, feed people that don't have enough food counseling, if you can't afford counseling, um, you know, daycare and things like that.
[00:38:38] Um, it was the socialization piece. Just, I think. In terms of education, we need to somehow figure out how we can move away from that. Should those things be handled by, um, the local government state government could education teachers. Shouldn't B um, all the time, the pressure of being all of those things like.
[00:39:04] Parent, you know, nurse, counselor, you know, just it, I thought about it more this week when I was prepping for this. And I was just like, that's wrong that, that the schools are all of those things. Because they, I guess, have to be.
[00:39:24] Anna: [00:39:24] So what is, what is, I guess the recommended solution, if you have two parents working in the household, how do you, how do you educate your children?
[00:39:34] How do you make sure that they are home safe? Uh, what, what's the solution here?
[00:39:41] Beth: [00:39:41] Uh, I'm not sure I'm so
[00:39:45] Larry: [00:39:45] yeah, I wish I had one.
[00:39:46] Beth: [00:39:46] Yeah. I'm so glad that I have a rising 10th grader. He's going to be virtual all year. So I know that is able to take care of himself kind of, and, um, Do his schooling, but I can't imagine having kids right now.
[00:40:02] Larry: [00:40:02] Well, every kid that was raised in the eighties is like, uh, I was home all day alone all summer, and my parents worked all of a sudden now you can't be home and I'm not saying that's the answer, but I'm just, we're all kind of laughing going. Uh, we spent the whole summer kind of. At home, going to swimming and get into mischief.
[00:40:20] We survived. Uh, I dunno, I don't know what the answer is, but it
[00:40:24] Trip: [00:40:24] isn't. Are
[00:40:25] Anna: [00:40:25] there laws in place where you can't have that happen anymore? Isn't that?
[00:40:29] Larry: [00:40:29] Yeah. No, they ruined everything
[00:40:31] Trip: [00:40:31] for us. I mean, I had a friend, I mean, I was, I was, I was on my high horse on, uh, Facebook of course, uh, you know, about this stuff.
[00:40:39] And I had a friend of mine. Who's a cop and, uh, you know, he was New York cop. Great guy was a nine 11 first responder and, um, came at me with some really tough questions and, and they were good questions. Uh, But, you know, we still didn't necessarily agree, but he's like, you know, I made the statement like Nope would ever died from remote school nurses.
[00:41:03] It was about the article in the Atlantic. And he said, no, actually they do. Um, you know, you have kids that are stuck at home, you know, with no one, watching them stuff happens. You have abuse, you have drugs, you have all of these things. And I was like, yes. And all of that happens. Not just because of school.
[00:41:20] There are staff all the time.
[00:41:22] Larry: [00:41:22] Anyway, this is, this is the fallacy. This is the fallacy drives me. Absolutely crazy that somehow remote school has created this situation or kids being at home. Absolutely untrue. There was a great tweet storm by an MD. Who's a psychiatrist and he specializes in children and he's like, are you kidding yourself?
[00:41:41] That kids are not being bullied to the point of suicide within the school system right now that they're not having drugs sold to them in the school system right now that they're not being beaten by other students in the school system right now don't act like the school system. Well, somehow heaven. It is not, it was flawed and everybody who knew it.
[00:42:01] And they're doing what they could with it, but don't pretend that kid's working or being at home and parents working at home has somehow made this worse than it was before. Not true.
[00:42:12] Trip: [00:42:12] So I think, I don't know if we have great takeaways for this week, other than it's all messed up.
[00:42:18] Beth: [00:42:18] Yeah. Wow.
[00:42:19] Anna: [00:42:19] It's super depressing.
[00:42:20] Beth: [00:42:20] Huh?
[00:42:21] Trip: [00:42:21] Right?
[00:42:22] Beth: [00:42:22] Some wine now.
[00:42:25] Trip: [00:42:25] Yes. It is, it is, uh, it's, it's got to be that time on the East coast. So, uh, you know, the, the, uh, the, the piece of this though is maybe the problem. Maybe the problem is the solution. Maybe this, the parents will be a little less entitle it a little more understanding. I mean, Beth.
[00:42:52] You've sent me a couple of messages about how disgusting boys are this week. You know, now, you know, you're spending tons of time with him at home. I think lots of parents are feeling that like, Oh
[00:43:04] Beth: [00:43:04] my God way right now. So I am by myself in the house with the dog and it is heaven.
[00:43:10] Trip: [00:43:10] Yeah. And, but you know, they're getting to see the full.
[00:43:15] Part of how their kids are, especially trying to teach. I think people are seeing how dependent we are. I mean, I made the point in an earlier episode. This is like having clean water, a functioning education system not only is necessary for the future it's necessary for the now in order for people to be able to do have some semblance of normality in their life, whether it's online or whatever, but it needs to be more tailored to.
[00:43:44] What we have available. It has to be tailored to work with the online tools. It's not right. It has teachers have to be trained in order or rethink how the classroom stuff works differently. Online that has to happen. I think that's going to take a lot of money. It's going to take a lot of political will and I think we've got a big election coming up and I think that's going to be a very big agenda item.
[00:44:07] Thank God. Finally, around how do we solve this problem? That will. Affect us for generations. If we don't. So,
[00:44:20] Larry: [00:44:20] alright.
[00:44:21] Trip: [00:44:21] Yeah. So, uh, do you guys, I'm sorry. I, I kind of had a moment there. Beautiful. It was beautiful. It says, yeah, he's on a roll. So Larry, Larry, Anna, Beth. Uh, any sort of last thoughts before we, uh, we wrap it up.
[00:44:39] Anna: [00:44:39] Why can't you give her like a cool name, like Bethany or, I don't know.
[00:44:45] Larry: [00:44:45] Cause I know the buttons.
[00:44:47] Trip: [00:44:47] I know what the buttons
[00:44:50] Beth: [00:44:50] there's some
[00:44:50] Larry: [00:44:50] historic
[00:44:51] Anna: [00:44:51] battle queen. I don't know, man could have been so good.
[00:44:55] Beth: [00:44:55] Yeah. Like,
[00:44:59] Larry: [00:44:59] Oh, I mean, similar to what trips that I want people to have more compassionate understanding that teachers, administrators, parents, we're all trying to find our way through this.
[00:45:10] And it's stressful. It's frightening. We don't have the answers yet. There's no easy answer. I think we need a lot more dialogue and discussion. Absolutely. There's too much happening behind closed doors and things happening without people's input. And here's your tool? Just use it. How do I use it? Is it secure?
[00:45:28] Is it say we need a lot more people working with the system and educators and consultants to help get to the right solution because how could we find the perfect solution to solve the educational problem in five months? Yeah. After centuries of issues, we can't. So we got to work together to find our way through that.
[00:45:47] And we have to be much more compassionate with each other,
[00:45:51] Trip: [00:45:51] Beth, any last thoughts?
[00:45:55] Beth: [00:45:55] I've I just, this was a great conversation. It got, got me thinking more and more about things. So that's probably why I'm going to have a little wine just to calm my brain. So I don't try to fix the educational system in my head.
[00:46:10] Um, one of the things that I, I that's, I think is really important to take away is like teaching is a career. It's a profession, it's a calling. Um, you can't just replace teachers with kids coming out of college or just anybody. My first,
[00:46:32] Trip: [00:46:32] my first two years, three years, I was a disaster. Like it, I mean, it takes you, it takes you five years to even just become decent.
[00:46:39] Beth: [00:46:39] And this is a time that we've never had before. And we need to understand that everyone could die from this. And it is not a bad thing for teachers to be worried about their safety and the safety of their families.
[00:46:59] Trip: [00:46:59] Yeah. You don't get knowledge workers without. Knowledge builders people that people, I mean, teachers are the first knowledge workers in, in, in kids' lives.
[00:47:09] Well, Beth, thank you so much, uh, for joining us, uh, this has been a great conversation. Um, yeah, so, uh, for myself, Larry, Anna, and, uh, Beth, uh, have a great week putting one foot in front of the other and better days are ahead.
Trip: [00:00:00] Hey there. Welcome back to the brave new workforce. I'm your host Tripp, Odell, and I am joined as always by my Intrepid. Co-hosts Larry cornet and Anna Kadina Anna. Larry, how are you guys today? I'm good.
[00:00:22] Anna: [00:00:22] That sounded amazing trip. You did a really good job on that first intro. Imagine that.
[00:00:28] Trip: [00:00:28] Well, you make fun of my fancy equipment.
[00:00:30] So there
[00:00:31] Larry: [00:00:31] you go. Yeah. I want a fancy equipment like that.
[00:00:36] Trip: [00:00:36] I cheat all the time. That's the secret to my success.
[00:00:41] Larry: [00:00:41] That's his next book?
[00:00:42] Trip: [00:00:42] Yeah. Well, we
[00:00:45] Anna: [00:00:45] actually have a special guest today. Don't wait any
[00:00:47] Trip: [00:00:47] trip. Yeah. Yeah. So let's, let's, uh, let's set this up a bit. Today's episode is part of our special series on schools during the pandemic and what closures in quarantine are going to mean for the future of education, but also the next generation of knowledge workers in the information economy and how that crisis is already affecting K-12 schools.
[00:01:08] Very recent evidence from Israel in Indiana, and even a summer camp in Georgia. Suggests that keeping the schools closed is absolutely the right call districts are going a hundred percent remote. And the problem facing many teachers is how to take a system that was never intended to be remote online and replace it with laptops and zoom.
[00:01:34] So today we're joined by a very old friend of mine. She's a public middle school teacher at a very large school district outside Washington, DC. Um, We'll not be using her real name today because let's face it. Teachers simply can't win in this situation. So Beth, welcome to the show.
[00:01:54] Beth: [00:01:54] Oh, hi guys. I'm so excited to be here.
[00:01:57] I've learned so much from your podcast, so I'm excited to be a guest.
[00:02:02] Trip: [00:02:02] Yeah. I mean, so Beth is where to call you that. Um, and I know you probably love that name.
[00:02:10] Beth: [00:02:10] No, I do not.
[00:02:12] Anna: [00:02:12] You could have picked any name and you picked one, you don't
[00:02:15] Beth: [00:02:15] like, what, what is it?
[00:02:17] Trip: [00:02:17] I said,
[00:02:23] this is a podcast role is what it is. So, uh, what, so. Beth. Tell us a little bit about your experience, how you got into education. Cause we started, uh, teaching maybe within a year or two of each other. We both knew we want it to be teachers, but it was before we were teaching when we first met. But then you, you sort of worked really hard to get into the field and you've been in it for awhile.
[00:02:48] So tell us a little bit about that journey and schools you've taught in sort of credentials you've you've picked up along the way. And what do you love about it?
[00:02:58] Beth: [00:02:58] Um, we met trip and I met actually waiting tables. Um, so this was before trip taught or I taught and, um, I'm a career switcher and a lot of teachers kind of looked down on career switchers because they.
[00:03:16] I think that, you know, the only reason someone switching careers is because they have this grandiose view of what a teacher is going to be like. Um, so I tend not to say that, but I'm one of those successful career switchers in my life opinion. Um, I, after waiting tables, uh, before that I was riding horses professionally and decided that I really needed an education to fall back on during the time, um, I was always teaching people how to ride.
[00:03:49] And a lot of people were saying to me, wow, you're a great teacher. You're a great teacher. And actually when tripping our waiting tables, I got more interested. I've always been a history geek. So I got interested in history and put myself back to school, was taking some classes. Um, At a community college and actually had a professor there that was amazing.
[00:04:12] And he inspired me to go into, to be a history, social studies teacher. After I got my certification, I moved down to Florida and my, the first experience was teaching inner city. And it was really, really difficult, but, um, I loved it cause I felt as though I was really making a difference currently, I now teach, um, in the DC area and I teach the kids that are identified as gifted and talented.
[00:04:40] And I also teach honors level. And when I look back, I, I say to myself, you know, I think I made more of a difference in Florida teaching inner city than I'm doing now with the. More of the well, the do population and the people that have tested into the gifted and talented program.
[00:04:59] Trip: [00:04:59] Well, that, that's interesting because, um, you know, we have that problem in the local district here in Seattle is that the, the demography of gifted and talented skews significantly, you know, sort of a fluent.
[00:05:13] Upper middle class white, you know, there, there isn't statistical representation, uh, you know, across that, right. So there's, there's definitely a wealth element to that. And I think that gets to some of these questions around the challenges of working remote. And I think we can get to that later, but like in particular, like one of the things that have really shut us down this year, uh, is this question of equity.
[00:05:37] Like they were surprised to learn how many kids did not have. Internet connections or computers available to learn on zoom. And so the district, or, you know, between the district and the union, they forbade teachers from instructing online. It was more sort of a social check-in. Uh, so have you encountered that as well?
[00:05:56] I mean, cause it's kind of a, an equity problem across the board.
[00:06:01] Beth: [00:06:01] Um, I haven't countered. Them telling me not to teach online. It's more of, we had problems with the platform we were using in the beginning. And the security of it. And we had told the powers that be that we were afraid about the security and they kind of said, you know, it's fine.
[00:06:24] It's fine. So we went along with it and then there was major security issues.
[00:06:30] Trip: [00:06:30] So, so are we talking about zoom? Just tell me we're talking about zoom because
[00:06:33] Beth: [00:06:33] no, we're not. No. Okay. W we weren't allowed to use zoom and, um, because of. Because they said zoom wasn't secure. And then the platform that we used, um, it wasn't secure either.
[00:06:49] So that we found out what kids can do online and it wasn't good.
[00:06:57] Larry: [00:06:57] They are, they're very creative arts.
[00:07:00] Beth: [00:07:00] Yes. And, and us older teachers are not as creative as they are. So we did know that there was the chance of them not behaving properly, but we didn't know to the extent that it would be. So they closed us down for about two weeks to fix the, the patch it up, try to fix it.
[00:07:21] And then you were teaching online, um, two days a week. So, I mean, I was working like crazy 24 seven and couldn't sleep because I'm thinking about, you know, the, all these things, I don't know. And how, and I know that parents are watching me and, you know, administrators could pop into my online class and it was, it was pretty stressful, but.
[00:07:50] They wanted us to teach online. We just had some problems getting it safe.
[00:07:55] Larry: [00:07:55] Did they ever bring in outside consultants to help teach the staff and administration how to use these tools or set them up more securely?
[00:08:04] Beth: [00:08:04] Um, not that I know.
[00:08:06] Larry: [00:08:06] Yeah. I was afraid of that.
[00:08:09] Beth: [00:08:09] They had it, they wanted to blame somebody.
[00:08:12] So they had a huge meeting and the head of technology ended up. Resigning through all of this. So,
[00:08:22] Trip: [00:08:22] you know, it's really a shame because I think a lot of school districts, I mean, there's a lot of critique of what in modern public education. I mean, there's, there's people that like you have switched careers or era or went into it, uh, initially, because they want to be with the kids, they have this talent, they have this vocation to teach, but then at the systems level, you've got.
[00:08:44] The textbook companies or the technology vendors sort of like dictating and directing is like our software doesn't work like that. So you can't teach in the right way for your kids. And, Oh, by the way, like, as there been inservice training on distance learning any of these things
[00:09:01] Beth: [00:09:01] Mmm. They've thrown a whole lot of training at us, and it gets to the point where we're overloaded with all of these different things that are approved by the County.
[00:09:13] And. One of the things in the spring is through the fix of this program. They were sending each kid linked to each class individually, and the kids have what? Eight classes. So kids were getting really overwhelmed. They didn't know where to go. And. We wanted to keep it simple. Um, but we also want it to be creative.
[00:09:39] So at times I think it's hard to keep it simple plus be creative at the same time. So,
[00:09:46] Trip: [00:09:46] so how did the, how did your lesson planning change at all? Because it sounds like. You're doing two days a week, but it's almost like the only thing that's missing is the bell to move from classroom to classroom is, I mean, are these stacked back-to-back-to-back, are you recording anything or are there, like, how do you interact with the kids?
[00:10:03] Like, are these, they have their cameras on like, what's what's happening? Like, how is this, what are they trying to make exactly the same and what's different.
[00:10:12] Beth: [00:10:12] Um, one of the main things that's different is we can't require kids to have cameras or Mike's on. So I did a lot of talking at the computer, you know, saying Bueller Bueller, like where I didn't even know if kids were in the room.
[00:10:28] Larry: [00:10:28] Yeah. It's hard. That is so hard.
[00:10:30] Beth: [00:10:30] The visual part of teaching, which I've now come to realize is so important to actually see the kids' reactions. Isn't there. Um, and that's one of my concerns about the fall. Um, as for designing lessons, it was a lot of what can I do to keep them active? Like I tried to, I would have, you know, a Google slides or a power, uh, ancient PowerPoint that I've updated and just have them.
[00:11:06] Um, go back to Google classroom, go into links. There was a chat feature, um, that they all could participate in, but own, it was like in class, there won't be a few kids participating. So I, it was really difficult. So I'm a little stressed about the fall,
[00:11:26] Trip: [00:11:26] you know, I'm imagining it's cause I'm watching Anna sort of on camera right now and watching, because Anna had a very untraditional education.
[00:11:35] Beth: [00:11:35] She was wiring the tanks in the jungle.
[00:11:38] Trip: [00:11:38] Yeah, exactly. She's wiring tanks in the jungle with her dad
[00:11:42] Beth: [00:11:42] that
[00:11:44] Trip: [00:11:44] and playing
[00:11:45] Larry: [00:11:45] I'm picturing her in camp. Yeah.
[00:11:47] Trip: [00:11:47] Yeah. And she's, she's playing find the live wire in the house. Uh, you know, uh, but I'm watching her, like, I'm just trying to imagine, like I'm watching her sort of like.
[00:11:58] As you're describing this, like, and I'm sure it's hard for you, like sitting through all of these meetings and trying to keep it engaging, trying to translate this thing into what's gonna work online and keeping the kids engaged and keeping them learning. Um, and, um, yeah, so, so you have a, you have something to say about that.
[00:12:19] Beth: [00:12:19] Like it's, I'm more of a, a dog and pony show in the classroom. So I jump around a lot and I. Sing songs and just act, you know, I'm, my teenager says, that's why all the students hate you. Um, I just act silly in order to keep their attention. And I tried to do that on camera, but it just, I didn't feel like it was working.
[00:12:42] I felt ridiculous. Cause I was
[00:12:45] Trip: [00:12:45] yeah.
[00:12:45] Beth: [00:12:45] Pulling in crops and pulling in props and like. Sound effects. And
[00:12:52] Trip: [00:12:52] so, I mean, that sounds amazing. I mean, because like I was that T I was that kid that was the slacker in school. But I think like for, for, you know, for somebody, I mean, and has worked remotely her entire career, and she had this sort of this non traditional thing.
[00:13:08] And I think like, there's this, and I'd love to hear your thoughts because I think there's a piece of this where. I mean, this is almost like a foreign concept of like imagining your younger self kind of going through this and that, the way that you've always worked with these remote tools, how would, how would this fit, like, would you feel that you would be the same, the same person working in a tech career?
[00:13:31] If this was the way that you had to learn and set of wiring tanks?
[00:13:36] Anna: [00:13:36] Well, again, I wasn't wiring tanks. You're making me sound like some sort of, I don't know,
[00:13:41] Beth: [00:13:41] a guerrilla
[00:13:42] Anna: [00:13:42] warfare out in the jungle
[00:13:45] Beth: [00:13:45] about to Revit,
[00:13:46] Anna: [00:13:46] like revolt against the government. And I'm not, I'm not like that. Okay. Um, well, when I was learning, uh, online, we did it via Skype and it wasn't, we
[00:13:56] Beth: [00:13:56] couldn't use.
[00:13:58] Or I don't
[00:13:58] Anna: [00:13:58] recall. We us using, um, webcam or anything like that. It was always audio is have basically a telephone call. Um, And I don't think Google sheets were even a thing. So collaborative things usually ended up being shared through email, on Excel sheet and documents in real time. And, um, the benefit here I think is I always had one on one teaching, so it wasn't like I could,
[00:14:23] Beth: [00:14:23] I felt like I couldn't Slack off
[00:14:25] Anna: [00:14:25] because if I wasn't answering, then my dad would hear
[00:14:28] Beth: [00:14:28] from.
[00:14:30] Anna: [00:14:30] From the very expensive classes that he was paying for. So, um,
[00:14:34] Beth: [00:14:34] I think
[00:14:35] Anna: [00:14:35] there was a little bit of a benefit there. Uh, just having that one on one model, a one to many model, I mean, I know of a teacher who
[00:14:43] Beth: [00:14:43] is teaching kindergarten students
[00:14:45] Anna: [00:14:45] and it's nearly impossible to get any kind of recognition in, in, in his class, you know?
[00:14:52] So, um, it's definitely tough for the remote. Learning a
[00:14:57] Beth: [00:14:57] to answer more specifically your question trip about being,
[00:15:00] Anna: [00:15:00] uh, remote and being. Uh, coming from a nontraditional background and learning. I think, you know, I, I had both the real life scenario as well as the online scenario. And I think it gave me a really good base balance to navigate, you know, consulting services across the ocean versus, and then coming into meetings in it locally.
[00:15:21] So I don't know if that really answers your question.
[00:15:25] Trip: [00:15:25] Well, I think, I think I'm just looking at this in terms of like you had the flexibility to choose tools and what Beth is describing is, I mean, it's great. I mean, every is much
[00:15:33] Beth: [00:15:33] more rigid. It sounds
[00:15:34] Anna: [00:15:34] difficult. Um, and especially the,
[00:15:37] Beth: [00:15:37] the, the security piece,
[00:15:39] Anna: [00:15:39] you know, there's a lot of concern there.
[00:15:42] Uh, not being able to see your students learning. Uh, I can, can only imagine how tedious that might be.
[00:15:49] Beth: [00:15:49] Yeah.
[00:15:49] Trip: [00:15:49] Well, and that, that's one of the things, you know, I mean, you guys, Larry, you homeschooled your children, um, you know, with your wife and, and, and you had sort of one-on-one, um, I didn't have that. I mean, I was a special ed kid.
[00:16:02] I was the kid out in the trailer. We, you know, we had smaller, we had smaller sections. Right. And so we could get that individually, super expensive. Beth, how many kids do you have in a second? Like have you been talked about how do you make it so that you can. Not maybe even individualized, but work with smaller groups.
[00:16:23] Um, like how many kids are you juggling in? How many sections are you covering?
[00:16:28] Beth: [00:16:28] Um, I typically have to teach five different sections and this year, um, my largest class was 34, so they're usually around 30. Um, If they're going to make them higher. They'll you know, say, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Um, and then put them in your class, but I really it's hard to do one-on-one when you're physically in the classroom.
[00:16:58] Um, I'm wondering if it may be easier to do a one on one, but. It's really hard to get teenagers show up for stuff they don't have to be at. Yeah. We took attendance in the spring, but we weren't grading. So those kids who I already have an a, I mean, rightly Oh, some of them were like, well, I don't need to go to class.
[00:17:22] And it's true. They would still have an a, but then I had some students that really. Busted their tails and came all the time and participated and did all the assignments and they had A's already as well. Well,
[00:17:36] Trip: [00:17:36] and that's one of the big things with, you know, in the world that we work in, which is remote is that accountability is a big, big deal.
[00:17:43] Like, I mean, it's, it's important in the work world, but we have tools like JIRA and some of these other. Software packages that you really are able to track, what, something, what, who is responsible for the next thing to be done on the project and what the status is and where it's round tripping. And if you're not keeping up with stuff, um, you're going to have a tough conversation.
[00:18:06] Uh, and it sounds like Anna, you had that similar sort of accountability in your, you know, there was no place to hide. And I think a lot of kids can end up hiding in the classroom in plain sight.
[00:18:18] Anna: [00:18:18] Yeah, I think the biggest thing for me, or the biggest critical factor here is I chose the classes that I wanted to learn.
[00:18:24] And my parents were supportive in, in cultivating that. So if I wanted to learn about math, for example, my father was really good at that. So he taught me himself. If I wanted to learn chemistry or English or something, they would hire out for that. Um, And same with my mother. I mean, she taught me a lot of counting and money saving and things like that, but these were all things that I wanted to learn.
[00:18:49] Um, she's quite different in a classroom setting.
[00:18:53] Larry: [00:18:53] You know, I have, like I said, my kids are homeschooled and now it's kind of a mix. So my son's in a charter school where he has some instruction and he has a lot of home education and he's, you know, he's a smart young kid. And he said, I don't need people to read to me or to lecture to me.
[00:19:10] I don't need that. What they need are office hours. And so he said, I can teach myself, I can read the book. I could watch a video, but what I'd love to have. And then we used to do some graduate school. We'd have open office hours. It's like I'm in ask questions. And I think that that works well. And then like you were talking about the checking in, I had a professor did this.
[00:19:29] He said, I'm going to trust you're doing it, but I'm going to test you every week. It's going to be a real short, lightweight test. And I'll know if you're on track and things are making sense to you. And if you're not, then we can dive deeper one-on-one or you can come to the office hours. But like you said, you don't want people falling through the cracks.
[00:19:46] And so you have to find some way to check in with people. I mean, it's just, you can't just hope that people are actually taking care of the material and reading it. You just can't.
[00:19:57] Beth: [00:19:57] And that's, that's funny that you mentioned that because we were required to have office hours and it became between all the teachers, like the biggest joke.
[00:20:06] We were like texting each other back and forth with like memes and things, because. Kids didn't come to office hours. So we're providing like our office hours were almost an hour long. We're providing that for him
[00:20:21] Larry: [00:20:21] and nobody shows up, huh?
[00:20:22] Beth: [00:20:22] No, nobody shows up. It was just, it, it became a joke.
[00:20:26] Trip: [00:20:26] Well, that's a culture thing too.
[00:20:29] Beth: [00:20:29] I think it's
[00:20:29] Anna: [00:20:29] a, a fundamental thing here that showcases,
[00:20:33] Beth: [00:20:33] um,
[00:20:33] Anna: [00:20:33] the system is broken. I mean, if, if children don't want to learn. Um, what are we doing to, to, from that? You know, because I think.
[00:20:44] Beth: [00:20:44] Yeah,
[00:20:45] Trip: [00:20:45] well, no, like, no, this is great. Okay. I think you're right. But I think there's, there's a layer of bolts around this because there's a, there is a, there's a piece of this where it's all getting, we're still kind of putting it on the teachers.
[00:20:58] Like the teachers aren't able to give this one on one. They're not able to give, you know, This lecture, they have to be, I mean, you're, you're working harder than ever. And you're supposed to be this guidance counselor and, you know, expert in your content area and this, uh, sort of doing daycare, but in these cultures where there's not accountability, right.
[00:21:20] There's not accountability for the kids. There's not accountability for the parents. Right. The parents. Yeah. And these are not the parents in this bond. In these wealthy
[00:21:30] Larry: [00:21:30] parents have to step up, right? Yeah.
[00:21:32] Trip: [00:21:32] In these wealthy districts, you have parents that are like you T you dread parent teacher conferences because they're coming in as like, why are you not giving my kid an a
[00:21:41] Beth: [00:21:41] they're all lawyered up.
[00:21:43] Trip: [00:21:43] Oh yeah.
[00:21:44] Beth: [00:21:44] Before you even have the conversation.
[00:21:47] Trip: [00:21:47] Exactly. So, so like the teachers that, that incentivizes, like not being accountable. So how does that prepare these kids for work or for this world?
[00:22:00] Beth: [00:22:00] And I might be taking us back to somewhere. We didn't want to go, but what was most interesting to me in listening to the F your first education podcast was, um, when Anna was talking about wiring tanks or whatever it was, um, it got into that interest based learning and a lot of the education system, in my opinion, Is throwing courses at kids that they don't really need.
[00:22:32] Um, they don't really want to learn. I think that comes down to that and Anna could pick what she wanted to learn and she didn't have to dread, Oh, I got to take, you know, so and so one Oh one and I'm not interested in it at all. And I think that's gotta get a lot of this complacency kids just aren't.
[00:22:55] Interested.
[00:22:56] Anna: [00:22:56] Yeah. I think one of the points here is why are we trying to teach a wide variety of topics to children who, or simply not interested? I think here, I mean, we hear parent from parents. I'm sure Larry, you got it too. It's like, if, if they don't know chemistry, how are they going to survive in the world and things like that.
[00:23:12] But I think the critical piece that we're missing here is that you're teaching your children how to learn. So if they're interested in something or if they have to get into
[00:23:20] Beth: [00:23:20] a job, A
[00:23:21] Anna: [00:23:21] prospect and they realize they don't fit three out of the five things. They can go off to the library or Google or whatever, and, and feel confident in being proactive in their own learning journey to get the right resources in their toolkit.
[00:23:36] However, I think if you have a
[00:23:38] Beth: [00:23:38] set curriculum right off the get
[00:23:40] Anna: [00:23:40] go, it can be kind of daunting to somebody who needs to think a little bit outside of the box on what kind of level of education. They need because, Oh, I didn't, I don't fit three out of five. So obviously I can't apply for this.
[00:23:55] Trip: [00:23:55] Well, and those are, those are our diamonds in coal mines, but I do want to get back to, um, Beth, uh, that you you've been, I mean, you, you made this change to your career.
[00:24:06] You you've had this long career you've, you've got your master's degree. Um, you know, from a very well respected. Institution for education, um, that, how long have you been doing this? And we can use round numbers. Uh, cause I we've been friends for a long time. Right? So like, I mean th the, the department of education, the state, you know, that the average teacher is a 42 year old woman with a master's degree and 10 or more years of experience.
[00:24:34] Would you say that that is under over, like where, where, where would you find yourself on that spectrum? I
[00:24:41] Beth: [00:24:41] am. Yeah, I wish I was 40. Um, I am older than that and I'm on 20 plus years, even though I went back and got my undergrad. When I was 30. So you can do the mass
[00:24:58] Trip: [00:24:58] well, and the, yeah, the interesting thing there too, is that like 61% of the teacher pool is at that meeting and above, like it it's definitely skews to older.
[00:25:11] So, you know, we've seen stories about teachers that are afraid to go back to schools. Like you have teachers that, like I was reading in the New York times today about. Teachers in Georgia where they're not doing social distancing, like it's just frightening amounts of like transmission. Like it's, it's it.
[00:25:30] And they already have active cases and people are still going to the school. PE teachers are retiring early, they're leaving. The unions are up in arms and. Because it's dangerous. It's dangerous for people, you know, our age and older. How many of your colleagues, like have you considered what you're going to do?
[00:25:48] If they force you to go back, like what's, what's going through your head and all this. Cause this is a, this is a career you love.
[00:25:56] Beth: [00:25:56] Um, I I'm at the point where all of that before we went virtual, Of for good, because we're going to do a hybrid where the kids went to class a couple of days, and some kids picked all virtual.
[00:26:11] We actually, my husband and I picked all virtual for my son. I went to a union online meeting because. In where I am we're right to work. And we're talking about, we got to be able to do collective bargaining. And one of the people that I was there actually asked, said, you know, after we're virtual and they force us to go back in, what are our, what can we do?
[00:26:40] I mean, I can't retire yet. Um, my son's still. He's a rising 10th grader. So we want to at least make sure he gets through college or halfway through college. Um, I can't really quit. So it's like, I guess I'll have to do what they tell me to do,
[00:27:03] Trip: [00:27:03] man.
[00:27:04] Larry: [00:27:04] That's just, that's just so unfortunate. It makes me so sad to hear this.
[00:27:09] Uh, and I had some friends going through it in other industries too, where they're being forced back into the office. And they're scared. They're terrified. And it's, I mean, we have somebody literally in the next town over I'm in a small community, she got sick with COVID. She was hospitalized, almost died.
[00:27:27] And I was like, well, she must be one of those risk population. She's 40. Perfect health exercises. Doesn't smoke, no preexisting conditions. She barely got out of there. And so it's like this isn't a joke. This thing is real. It's legitimate. We were just talking about Israel. They reopened Israel was at a hundred cases a day.
[00:27:47] That's it? And the entire country, they thought. We're at the bottom. We have it under control to put that in perspective. We're at 50 to 60,000 cases a day in the U S so Israel reopened the schools. And within a couple of weeks, they had to shut back down because it spread like wildfire. The teachers were getting sick, the students took it home.
[00:28:04] Their parents were getting sick. There's there's no doubt that it's going to spread like crazy. Once people are in classrooms for eight hours a day.
[00:28:12] Beth: [00:28:12] And the unfortunate thing is. Some people think we don't want to go back because we're lazy. So again, it's, it's, the public is now against the teachers.
[00:28:23] We're worried for our safety plus the safety of people in our home. And you know, my inlaws are 80 plus it's not about. I'm lazy. It's not about, I don't want to do my job. It's about, I'm afraid for my life. I, you know, I never thought as a teacher I'd be scared for my life, even when I taught inner city.
[00:28:47] Trip: [00:28:47] Yeah. I mean, we, we were running stats on this. I mean, we're, we're, we're looking at stuff like. Yeah, I I'm morbid and sort of a nerd. Uh, but you know, when you, so I started running statistics on this and you know, when you, when you put this in context in the, you know, 3.7 million teachers, K-12, uh, 57 million.
[00:29:10] Uh, you know, children or students at that level nationally, uh, if you take that whole population of 3.7 million and you start running the demographics statistics on COVID, you're talking about anywhere from 5,000 to 20,000 dead teachers in a year. Right. I mean, it's, it's, it's like, I mean, they talk about crab fishing, commercial, crab, fishing, being the deadliest thing.
[00:29:38] I mean, that's an excessive all workplace deaths by all causes by OSHA in an entire year and multiple times that it's more than all the combat deaths in Iraq, over eight years, it is criminal, um, that they would ask you to do that. And I think like one of the things, and you know, this is. Larry. And, and I know this, but I've never the, the either or the vanilla or chocolate I want pistachio.
[00:30:03] Right? Like I think there's other solutions out there, not just in terms of how you teach, but I think there's other options for teachers. I mean, there's, there's a lot of teachers that I know that have left the schools they're doing one-on-one there are parents willing to align up for a hundred dollars an hour.
[00:30:20] You know, that's a gross out of about $160,000 a year. And you get to work whenever you want and you get to go to the bathroom whenever you want. Like, that's the thing that people don't realize about teachers' zoom fatigue is that you, you go back to back to back just like it's a bell schedule. Cause you had to play in your bathroom, breaks around how many class, like when you had your break
[00:30:42] Beth: [00:30:42] and, um, One of the things that our County just came out with is there is a regulation about if people take a leave of absence, if they take a leave of absence from the County, they're not allowed to do any of those like pod things.
[00:30:57] They're not allowed to work in the same capacity. Um, Like tutoring. People think we're going to tutor like on our contract hours, which we wouldn't. Cause that would be stupid, but they're thinking, Oh, well, if teachers are tutoring, they're, you know, they're, they're making extra money and they're doing it.
[00:31:17] Trip: [00:31:17] Why don't you just say that you're a right to work state. I mean, that's, that's a, that's like, like where Larry, I used to live in California. Larry is in
[00:31:26] Larry: [00:31:26] California. Do that to people.
[00:31:28] Trip: [00:31:28] You can't do that. That's a, that's a, that's like a noncompete legal it's in a right to work state. That is absolutely illegal.
[00:31:35] Beth: [00:31:35] That's right. Oh, hours that be. Just, I mean, just sent out a big thing. It was just yesterday about all the regulations. So, and you don't, you don't know who to believe and in the end you still want to have your job. You do. I mean, this is your career. This is your reputation. Yeah, they could easily,
[00:31:57] Larry: [00:31:57] yeah. I never thought.
[00:32:00] I was just gonna say, I'd never thought there'd be black market teaching, but it is, it is literally, and I'm not going to name names of course, or even where they are. I know parents that are using money or pooling money. Parents are pulling money and hiring teachers, ex teachers to educate their children at home.
[00:32:18] And it's going to happen whether the state likes it or not, it's going to be black market. Oh, my gosh. We're we're black market, educating students. We are so horrible. I can help tell.
[00:32:28] Trip: [00:32:28] Yeah, absolutely. And I think like, just to put a cap on that, like I'm dyslexic, I can't spell it. Maybe, you know, Larry or Anna, Ken would be like, can you spell class action?
[00:32:37] Because I think like that, like go to the County, cause like get a good lawyer, lawyer. If you're listening, I can give you Beth's contact information on the down low. Like that should be, that should be like. Priority one, they it's a right to work state. They get, they don't get to dictate that kind of stuff.
[00:32:56] And I think that's one of the things that we talk a lot about on this podcast is this is a great thing because it allows people to. Have more freedom in their life. Um, and so like for teachers that are looking at this, it's not a binary solution that it's not binary for how the schools can work, but it's not binary for how extremely well experienced educators can run their career.
[00:33:19] Larry: [00:33:19] You know, in some way this mirrors, the discussion we've been having about remote work period. That people have been somewhat tied to an employer for their income, for their health insurance, for all kinds of stuff. Right. And it's been a local employer cause you have to go into the office and you have to commute.
[00:33:35] Now this has radically changed. Now everyone is working remotely. They just get on their laptop. They have an internet connection and they're working and now the light bulb is coming on saying. Oh, I can work from anywhere in the world for anyone in the world. And I know for a fact that people all over the world, not just the United States, want to hire American instructors to teach English and things like that, and they will pay you.
[00:34:00] And so this is the thing that I don't think people realize is that people need to make a living. There is demand. So if there are parents who want this and students who want this. It's not going to stop. There are going to be people that are trying to attract these instructors who are being left high and dry within the United States.
[00:34:19] And they're going to woo them. And they're going to say, will you educate my child? And now we continue to increase the education gap that we've seen, where the U S is trailing the rest of the world because we refuse to be flexible.
[00:34:32] Beth: [00:34:32] So a lot of the, um, teachers, when we had these big meetings with the superintendent, we're like, okay, Can we retire because there's a time limit when you can retire.
[00:34:43] And basically they said, yeah, no. So yeah, they said, no, you can't retire. And it's like, I'm even looking into retiring maybe in three years and going and teaching in another less. You know, fluent district and I have to find out what hoops I need to jump through in order to still get my retirement or have to pay back to them.
[00:35:14] So.
[00:35:17] Larry: [00:35:17] I know it's crazy. It's crazy that people are having to make that choice. And I just, I saw somebody post on LinkedIn about this, where they similar situation, their employers. Like we want you all to come back into the office and she said, I'm going to have. To quit. And I didn't want to have to do this in the middle of an economic crisis and a pandemic, but you're making me choose between my health, my child's health.
[00:35:40] And when it comes down to radical choice of survival, of course, I'm going to come down the side of the safety of my child and my own safety and people are talking about, well, the kids will be okay, they're not at risk. They're going to survive. It's like, how will the kids be doing when their parents pass away?
[00:35:55] When their uncles and aunts pass away, their grandparents pass away and they feel responsible. They're going to feel responsible and that death is going to impact them in traumatic ways. And people are just overlooking that. It's not something we can take lightly. I think we have to find a solution that allows us to give the kids what they need.
[00:36:14] To give the flexibility that lets people keep their jobs, but not risk their health. And I, and I'm going to say it again. Parents have to step up. That is one thing that's true about homeschool parents is that they clearly step up. I think everybody who's kids are in a public school system. We're not asking them to literally educate their children for eight hours a day, but step up and help.
[00:36:36] With the accountability, make sure your kids go into the office hours, make sure they're doing the material and the reading. Be part of it
[00:36:44] Trip: [00:36:44] again, though. Like, you know, let's pick pistachio again. Cause there's, there's, there's, there's a, there's a, there's a challenge here is that you have, I mean, there was okay.
[00:36:55] So there was this article in the Atlantic where this nurse who worked the pandemic, uh, is, is, is saying that. She worked the pandemic, you know, her husband is a New York city public school teacher. It's teacher's duty, they're shirking their duty, not going back. Right. And I did not, Oh yeah. A life, a life debt vow.
[00:37:20] I did not sign in and denture, you know, on a year to year basis. Like, there's a, there's a, like that's unfair, but I think Israel is also a reaction for people that. Don't have the ability to not go to work. Like they work in a service industry or they are firefighters or whatever, and they need something there.
[00:37:40] They can't leave their children at home. That's not, I mean, that's like, there are people that, okay, I have a white collar job, or I have an information economy, job. I can stay home. It's inconvenient, Blau, whatever. But there's also this group of kids that don't have those. They don't have those safety nets like Beth, what do you, what do you think of that?
[00:38:03] Beth: [00:38:03] The thing that concerns me, um, I mean, education has evolved itself to be a daycare. Basically, if you don't have childcare, you always could know if you had a, a school age child that they were going to be taken care of. Um, The education system has become that end all be all to society. Um, feed people that don't have enough food counseling, if you can't afford counseling, um, you know, daycare and things like that.
[00:38:38] Um, it was the socialization piece. Just, I think. In terms of education, we need to somehow figure out how we can move away from that. Should those things be handled by, um, the local government state government could education teachers. Shouldn't B um, all the time, the pressure of being all of those things like.
[00:39:04] Parent, you know, nurse, counselor, you know, just it, I thought about it more this week when I was prepping for this. And I was just like, that's wrong that, that the schools are all of those things. Because they, I guess, have to be.
[00:39:24] Anna: [00:39:24] So what is, what is, I guess the recommended solution, if you have two parents working in the household, how do you, how do you educate your children?
[00:39:34] How do you make sure that they are home safe? Uh, what, what's the solution here?
[00:39:41] Beth: [00:39:41] Uh, I'm not sure I'm so
[00:39:45] Larry: [00:39:45] yeah, I wish I had one.
[00:39:46] Beth: [00:39:46] Yeah. I'm so glad that I have a rising 10th grader. He's going to be virtual all year. So I know that is able to take care of himself kind of, and, um, Do his schooling, but I can't imagine having kids right now.
[00:40:02] Larry: [00:40:02] Well, every kid that was raised in the eighties is like, uh, I was home all day alone all summer, and my parents worked all of a sudden now you can't be home and I'm not saying that's the answer, but I'm just, we're all kind of laughing going. Uh, we spent the whole summer kind of. At home, going to swimming and get into mischief.
[00:40:20] We survived. Uh, I dunno, I don't know what the answer is, but it
[00:40:24] Trip: [00:40:24] isn't. Are
[00:40:25] Anna: [00:40:25] there laws in place where you can't have that happen anymore? Isn't that?
[00:40:29] Larry: [00:40:29] Yeah. No, they ruined everything
[00:40:31] Trip: [00:40:31] for us. I mean, I had a friend, I mean, I was, I was, I was on my high horse on, uh, Facebook of course, uh, you know, about this stuff.
[00:40:39] And I had a friend of mine. Who's a cop and, uh, you know, he was New York cop. Great guy was a nine 11 first responder and, um, came at me with some really tough questions and, and they were good questions. Uh, But, you know, we still didn't necessarily agree, but he's like, you know, I made the statement like Nope would ever died from remote school nurses.
[00:41:03] It was about the article in the Atlantic. And he said, no, actually they do. Um, you know, you have kids that are stuck at home, you know, with no one, watching them stuff happens. You have abuse, you have drugs, you have all of these things. And I was like, yes. And all of that happens. Not just because of school.
[00:41:20] There are staff all the time.
[00:41:22] Larry: [00:41:22] Anyway, this is, this is the fallacy. This is the fallacy drives me. Absolutely crazy that somehow remote school has created this situation or kids being at home. Absolutely untrue. There was a great tweet storm by an MD. Who's a psychiatrist and he specializes in children and he's like, are you kidding yourself?
[00:41:41] That kids are not being bullied to the point of suicide within the school system right now that they're not having drugs sold to them in the school system right now that they're not being beaten by other students in the school system right now don't act like the school system. Well, somehow heaven. It is not, it was flawed and everybody who knew it.
[00:42:01] And they're doing what they could with it, but don't pretend that kid's working or being at home and parents working at home has somehow made this worse than it was before. Not true.
[00:42:12] Trip: [00:42:12] So I think, I don't know if we have great takeaways for this week, other than it's all messed up.
[00:42:18] Beth: [00:42:18] Yeah. Wow.
[00:42:19] Anna: [00:42:19] It's super depressing.
[00:42:20] Beth: [00:42:20] Huh?
[00:42:21] Trip: [00:42:21] Right?
[00:42:22] Beth: [00:42:22] Some wine now.
[00:42:25] Trip: [00:42:25] Yes. It is, it is, uh, it's, it's got to be that time on the East coast. So, uh, you know, the, the, uh, the, the piece of this though is maybe the problem. Maybe the problem is the solution. Maybe this, the parents will be a little less entitle it a little more understanding. I mean, Beth.
[00:42:52] You've sent me a couple of messages about how disgusting boys are this week. You know, now, you know, you're spending tons of time with him at home. I think lots of parents are feeling that like, Oh
[00:43:04] Beth: [00:43:04] my God way right now. So I am by myself in the house with the dog and it is heaven.
[00:43:10] Trip: [00:43:10] Yeah. And, but you know, they're getting to see the full.
[00:43:15] Part of how their kids are, especially trying to teach. I think people are seeing how dependent we are. I mean, I made the point in an earlier episode. This is like having clean water, a functioning education system not only is necessary for the future it's necessary for the now in order for people to be able to do have some semblance of normality in their life, whether it's online or whatever, but it needs to be more tailored to.
[00:43:44] What we have available. It has to be tailored to work with the online tools. It's not right. It has teachers have to be trained in order or rethink how the classroom stuff works differently. Online that has to happen. I think that's going to take a lot of money. It's going to take a lot of political will and I think we've got a big election coming up and I think that's going to be a very big agenda item.
[00:44:07] Thank God. Finally, around how do we solve this problem? That will. Affect us for generations. If we don't. So,
[00:44:20] Larry: [00:44:20] alright.
[00:44:21] Trip: [00:44:21] Yeah. So, uh, do you guys, I'm sorry. I, I kind of had a moment there. Beautiful. It was beautiful. It says, yeah, he's on a roll. So Larry, Larry, Anna, Beth. Uh, any sort of last thoughts before we, uh, we wrap it up.
[00:44:39] Anna: [00:44:39] Why can't you give her like a cool name, like Bethany or, I don't know.
[00:44:45] Larry: [00:44:45] Cause I know the buttons.
[00:44:47] Trip: [00:44:47] I know what the buttons
[00:44:50] Beth: [00:44:50] there's some
[00:44:50] Larry: [00:44:50] historic
[00:44:51] Anna: [00:44:51] battle queen. I don't know, man could have been so good.
[00:44:55] Beth: [00:44:55] Yeah. Like,
[00:44:59] Larry: [00:44:59] Oh, I mean, similar to what trips that I want people to have more compassionate understanding that teachers, administrators, parents, we're all trying to find our way through this.
[00:45:10] And it's stressful. It's frightening. We don't have the answers yet. There's no easy answer. I think we need a lot more dialogue and discussion. Absolutely. There's too much happening behind closed doors and things happening without people's input. And here's your tool? Just use it. How do I use it? Is it secure?
[00:45:28] Is it say we need a lot more people working with the system and educators and consultants to help get to the right solution because how could we find the perfect solution to solve the educational problem in five months? Yeah. After centuries of issues, we can't. So we got to work together to find our way through that.
[00:45:47] And we have to be much more compassionate with each other,
[00:45:51] Trip: [00:45:51] Beth, any last thoughts?
[00:45:55] Beth: [00:45:55] I've I just, this was a great conversation. It got, got me thinking more and more about things. So that's probably why I'm going to have a little wine just to calm my brain. So I don't try to fix the educational system in my head.
[00:46:10] Um, one of the things that I, I that's, I think is really important to take away is like teaching is a career. It's a profession, it's a calling. Um, you can't just replace teachers with kids coming out of college or just anybody. My first,
[00:46:32] Trip: [00:46:32] my first two years, three years, I was a disaster. Like it, I mean, it takes you, it takes you five years to even just become decent.
[00:46:39] Beth: [00:46:39] And this is a time that we've never had before. And we need to understand that everyone could die from this. And it is not a bad thing for teachers to be worried about their safety and the safety of their families.
[00:46:59] Trip: [00:46:59] Yeah. You don't get knowledge workers without. Knowledge builders people that people, I mean, teachers are the first knowledge workers in, in, in kids' lives.
[00:47:09] Well, Beth, thank you so much, uh, for joining us, uh, this has been a great conversation. Um, yeah, so, uh, for myself, Larry, Anna, and, uh, Beth, uh, have a great week putting one foot in front of the other and better days are ahead.
