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Hey, guys, it's Dr. Mike Wu Ming. Welcome to another edition of Bootstrap MD, the podcast for physician and healthcare entrepreneurs .
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How are you doing? I am doing very well. I'm very happy to be back here. It's good to see you again, Mike Good to see you. So, like I said, I think a lot of people know your name. You've been around,. We both been around in talking about just non traditional careers, non traditional paths.
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And I was a CMO for hospital for 14 years. And during that time for four years, I stopped practicing completely. And then I went back into it when I opened up some urgent care. centers with some colleagues and a partner who's actually the CEO and I am the medical director and part owner and When I did that I got interested in Looking at these non clinical careers because I had a little more time on my hands once I left the hospital Setting I was a little slow at the beginning We started from scratch So I would be at the clinic and I would have time to do other things and I got interested in this And so I started investigating it and I started my podcast physician non clinical careers to learn about these non traditional and non clinical careers.
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He and I started something called NewScript, which we have since closed. But one of the things we did before we closed it is that we did a summit last year. It was 12 hours of lectures over three nights. It was live, it was on zoom, we had live Q and A. And we had people come and talk about non clinical careers, non traditional careers, you know, things like the locums and telemedicine and all the other US jobs and things like that.
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But there wasn't a lot of information. What if you learn from, , having your podcast in terms of the different careers that are out there? Because I think you, I think we both realize that there's a lot more out there than when we initially thought. Yeah, when I started this, I didn't really know what was out there other than what I had already done.
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And so my opinion has changed about what physicians can and should do. Not that there's one thing, but I think we don't give ourselves enough credit. And if we could find a better way to pull in our medical knowledge and help clients or patients and still maintain control, which is one of the things we really hate about being in practice sometimes, losing the control to a corporate employer, , it's been eye opening for the last few years.
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For the doctors out there, they're listening to this interview in terms of the timing of it. Yeah It used to be we were kind of mostly looking at physicians who had been in practice 20 30 years They were getting burned out in nearing retirement. So they need some kind of transition or do something that isn't so intense You know, it's difficult after 30 years of doing surgery or intense medical care, you know, you just get worn out But really it's this, the demand for it is at all ages.
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And again, I think Did a lot of these opportunities occur? You said the last part didn't use a lot occur because of the pandemic. I mean, I know that for many doctors They looked at the career a lot differently. Oh, absolutely. The pandemic did a lot of things to accelerate all of the remote jobs. There were jobs that had been remote, , even, forays into telemedicine, you know, and just some of the work that was being done on site.
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So, I'm eager to hear this. So, what are your three favorite type of jobs that are non traditional for doctors ? I want to talk about this because it really has changed for me in the last, you know, five or six years as I've been talking to more and more people. So, I'm not going to go into all the, what I've talked about and heard about.
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If once you get enough clients or publishers that hire you and what have you usually as a freelancer though, rather than as an employee, the hours are flexible. Location is flexible. There's multiple genres you can do. You can eventually become an editor. There's management position. You can start before leaving your clinical job.
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They have a great lifestyle and they're definitely making, , a good salary. So that's my number three. I would even consider that myself if I was starting over somewhere in my mid career. Just to go a little bit deeper, what types of companies are hiring medical writers? Well, medical writers can find jobs or freelance opportunities at a lot of companies, some of which they don't realize.
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Great. Let's hear your second choice. Okay. Now, second one is a lot of your audience maybe still has not heard of this. We've all heard of expert witness consulting. That's been around forever. But there's something called medical legal consulting or medical legal pre litigation consulting. And this is something really that hasn't been a separate thing until the last about 10 or 12 years.
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You're never going to go to court. What you're doing is you're reviewing all of the records from an injured patient. It could be auto accident, could be worker's comp, could be any kind of personal injury. And you're serving as simply a consultant to wade through that organize it, explain to your attorney client what is going on and whether the, other side of the litigation has, , accept the responsibility for all the injuries that you discover and all the consequences of those injuries.
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I think it's Physicians Helping Attorneys Helping Patients or something. And you can get a feel for it and do this either at the end of your career or as an adjunct to your career. And that's one of the things you really can't do as an expert witness. Most expert witnesses have to remain in practice.
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Basically, this is a broad. And what it is a clinical or what I might call a clinical light business, clinically related business. So, I mean, it could be DPC or something like that, but it's other things like aesthetics and med spas and infusion centers, or even something like my wife is doing, which I can use as an example in a minute.
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And not only can you earn more if, you know, if it's successful and Most of these really are if they're planned properly, but the thing that we forget is that generally they become an asset that is, you can sell at the end and that's the thing that really, when I have interviewed the med spa owners and particularly one that I'll mention that sold her med spa and even in talking with my wife now, because we're getting ready to sell her business.
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She loves taking care of seniors. She has a great reputation in the community. And basically, since it's time to sell, then we'll get, , basically almost like selling a house that has no mortgage, you're going to get this big asset, which can just go into your retirement, you know, part of your retirement plan.
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I'll mention a couple of other examples if that's okay. I know Jason Ryan. He was on my podcast a long time ago, a few years ago, and he started boards and beyond, which was designed to, it was just an educational platform to teach his medical students where he was working. Well, he did that for about 10 years, and he sold that to McGraw Hill in 2022.
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Mentality over there. Yeah, love it. Interesting enough, Greg and I actually went to the same high school together. . Really? Yeah. But I'm much older. He has, , many classes over. What I think one of the key things is, and I'm trying to kind of classify these type of health related businesses. Is the physician is not in the integral component of providing that service.
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And that's, what's attractive to, the McGraw Hills to these other different companies, good or Xs , because that's an asset that they can use that some value. And it's not. Essential for the physician to be seeing patients, which is, , it seems, you know, kind of intuitive, but, we see, again, all these solo practitioners who, like, I worked there for all these years, and I, unfortunately, nobody really wants to purchase that practice for the most part.
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Yeah, some assets, equipment. Sure. But for the most part, , it's. If you can take yourself out of the business in some capacity where you're not the rate limiting step, as we learned in chemistry , you're going to be a lot ahead of most other doctors who own business . Absolutely. So that's my new favorite.
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You should enjoy your job every day. And so if you need to find someone like Mike or me to help you or do it on your own, but just make a change and keep looking for that perfect job for yourself. Love the words of wisdom, John. . Thank you for spending the time with us. .
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Hey, guys, it's Dr. Mike Wu Ming. Welcome to another edition of Bootstrap MD, the podcast for physician and healthcare entrepreneurs .
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00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:02,000
How are you doing? I am doing very well. I'm very happy to be back here. It's good to see you again, Mike Good to see you. So, like I said, I think a lot of people know your name. You've been around,. We both been around in talking about just non traditional careers, non traditional paths.
3
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:03,000
And I was a CMO for hospital for 14 years. And during that time for four years, I stopped practicing completely. And then I went back into it when I opened up some urgent care. centers with some colleagues and a partner who's actually the CEO and I am the medical director and part owner and When I did that I got interested in Looking at these non clinical careers because I had a little more time on my hands once I left the hospital Setting I was a little slow at the beginning We started from scratch So I would be at the clinic and I would have time to do other things and I got interested in this And so I started investigating it and I started my podcast physician non clinical careers to learn about these non traditional and non clinical careers.
4
00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:04,000
He and I started something called NewScript, which we have since closed. But one of the things we did before we closed it is that we did a summit last year. It was 12 hours of lectures over three nights. It was live, it was on zoom, we had live Q and A. And we had people come and talk about non clinical careers, non traditional careers, you know, things like the locums and telemedicine and all the other US jobs and things like that.
5
00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:05,000
But there wasn't a lot of information. What if you learn from, , having your podcast in terms of the different careers that are out there? Because I think you, I think we both realize that there's a lot more out there than when we initially thought. Yeah, when I started this, I didn't really know what was out there other than what I had already done.
6
00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:06,000
And so my opinion has changed about what physicians can and should do. Not that there's one thing, but I think we don't give ourselves enough credit. And if we could find a better way to pull in our medical knowledge and help clients or patients and still maintain control, which is one of the things we really hate about being in practice sometimes, losing the control to a corporate employer, , it's been eye opening for the last few years.
7
00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:07,000
For the doctors out there, they're listening to this interview in terms of the timing of it. Yeah It used to be we were kind of mostly looking at physicians who had been in practice 20 30 years They were getting burned out in nearing retirement. So they need some kind of transition or do something that isn't so intense You know, it's difficult after 30 years of doing surgery or intense medical care, you know, you just get worn out But really it's this, the demand for it is at all ages.
8
00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:08,000
And again, I think Did a lot of these opportunities occur? You said the last part didn't use a lot occur because of the pandemic. I mean, I know that for many doctors They looked at the career a lot differently. Oh, absolutely. The pandemic did a lot of things to accelerate all of the remote jobs. There were jobs that had been remote, , even, forays into telemedicine, you know, and just some of the work that was being done on site.
9
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:09,000
So, I'm eager to hear this. So, what are your three favorite type of jobs that are non traditional for doctors ? I want to talk about this because it really has changed for me in the last, you know, five or six years as I've been talking to more and more people. So, I'm not going to go into all the, what I've talked about and heard about.
10
00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:10,000
If once you get enough clients or publishers that hire you and what have you usually as a freelancer though, rather than as an employee, the hours are flexible. Location is flexible. There's multiple genres you can do. You can eventually become an editor. There's management position. You can start before leaving your clinical job.
11
00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:11,000
They have a great lifestyle and they're definitely making, , a good salary. So that's my number three. I would even consider that myself if I was starting over somewhere in my mid career. Just to go a little bit deeper, what types of companies are hiring medical writers? Well, medical writers can find jobs or freelance opportunities at a lot of companies, some of which they don't realize.
12
00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:12,000
Great. Let's hear your second choice. Okay. Now, second one is a lot of your audience maybe still has not heard of this. We've all heard of expert witness consulting. That's been around forever. But there's something called medical legal consulting or medical legal pre litigation consulting. And this is something really that hasn't been a separate thing until the last about 10 or 12 years.
13
00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:13,000
You're never going to go to court. What you're doing is you're reviewing all of the records from an injured patient. It could be auto accident, could be worker's comp, could be any kind of personal injury. And you're serving as simply a consultant to wade through that organize it, explain to your attorney client what is going on and whether the, other side of the litigation has, , accept the responsibility for all the injuries that you discover and all the consequences of those injuries.
14
00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:14,000
I think it's Physicians Helping Attorneys Helping Patients or something. And you can get a feel for it and do this either at the end of your career or as an adjunct to your career. And that's one of the things you really can't do as an expert witness. Most expert witnesses have to remain in practice.
15
00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:15,000
Basically, this is a broad. And what it is a clinical or what I might call a clinical light business, clinically related business. So, I mean, it could be DPC or something like that, but it's other things like aesthetics and med spas and infusion centers, or even something like my wife is doing, which I can use as an example in a minute.
16
00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:16,000
And not only can you earn more if, you know, if it's successful and Most of these really are if they're planned properly, but the thing that we forget is that generally they become an asset that is, you can sell at the end and that's the thing that really, when I have interviewed the med spa owners and particularly one that I'll mention that sold her med spa and even in talking with my wife now, because we're getting ready to sell her business.
17
00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:17,000
She loves taking care of seniors. She has a great reputation in the community. And basically, since it's time to sell, then we'll get, , basically almost like selling a house that has no mortgage, you're going to get this big asset, which can just go into your retirement, you know, part of your retirement plan.
18
00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:18,000
I'll mention a couple of other examples if that's okay. I know Jason Ryan. He was on my podcast a long time ago, a few years ago, and he started boards and beyond, which was designed to, it was just an educational platform to teach his medical students where he was working. Well, he did that for about 10 years, and he sold that to McGraw Hill in 2022.
19
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:19,000
Mentality over there. Yeah, love it. Interesting enough, Greg and I actually went to the same high school together. . Really? Yeah. But I'm much older. He has, , many classes over. What I think one of the key things is, and I'm trying to kind of classify these type of health related businesses. Is the physician is not in the integral component of providing that service.
20
00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:20,000
And that's, what's attractive to, the McGraw Hills to these other different companies, good or Xs , because that's an asset that they can use that some value. And it's not. Essential for the physician to be seeing patients, which is, , it seems, you know, kind of intuitive, but, we see, again, all these solo practitioners who, like, I worked there for all these years, and I, unfortunately, nobody really wants to purchase that practice for the most part.
21
00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:21,000
Yeah, some assets, equipment. Sure. But for the most part, , it's. If you can take yourself out of the business in some capacity where you're not the rate limiting step, as we learned in chemistry , you're going to be a lot ahead of most other doctors who own business . Absolutely. So that's my new favorite.
22
00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:22,000
You should enjoy your job every day. And so if you need to find someone like Mike or me to help you or do it on your own, but just make a change and keep looking for that perfect job for yourself. Love the words of wisdom, John. . Thank you for spending the time with us. .
