Kenneth Walker, Bijan Robinson, and the NFL's Early-Season Difference Makers

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All right, all right. Welcome on in to another action-packed and live edition of the Between the Hash Marks podcast.
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As always, I'm Matt Bombardo, joined by my friend, colleague, my mentor, the suddenly hatless Mike Tanier joins me, as always. Michael, how are you today? I'm doing great. I'm going commando. That's what it means, right?
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That's what going commando means, going hatless. Commandos don't wear ha- wait, commandos do wear hats. They wear, like, berets. I'm hatless today. I got...
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I'm having a good- The best purveyor of the Too Deep Zone is here. [laughs] And, and I- I'm thrown off by the lack of the podcast hat, but we will muscle through. It's a great look.
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It, it's a fresh start, and I think that there are a handful of teams across the league that could use a fresh start in some form or fashion. We're gonna get into all of that today.
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We're gonna get into some of the breakout stars across the league today that are powering teams that aren't in need of any sort of change anytime soon, and a whole lot more.
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But before we do, a little bit of housekeeping for you. If you enjoy the podcast, please go ahead and subscribe in the Apple Podcast Store. Leave us a five-star rating and review.
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They really do help grow the show, boost us up in the algorithm, make it easier for people to find us, boost us up in the rankings. You can check us out on iHeartRadio.
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You can subscribe on the Amazon Alexa and Amazon Music app, and a whole lot more. And of course, Mike, most important of all, subscribe to the Too Deep Zone and subscribe to Between the Hash Marks. That's right.
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This is an attention economy. We crave your attention. That's why I do things like go hatless and say I'm going commando. Kevin in the chat says he's going commando, too.
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I would say too much information, but I started it. I, I took it as he was, [laughs] he was thrown off by the look. The look was a little bit, uh, uh, disarming for a lot of people.
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[laughs] It's, I'm having a good what's left of my hair day. What can I say? I'm, I'm gonna go with that. And we're here in Philadelphia, the happiest sports city in America. Yeah, not so much right now.
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[laughs] And we were talking about this before we went on the air, and I, I'm almost bummed out that the Eagles are playing a standalone game in London against the Jaguars on Sunday morning, because I, I'm Eagled out.
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I'm burnt out on it. I'm tired of watching an offense that has no identity. Uh, sure, they found a new way to lose with the defense collapsing late because they were on the field forever in the second half.
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Um, but it, it just feels like,
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it feels like bad news all around that team, bad juju all around, and maybe a, a transcontinental flight where they're leaving Friday afternoon for a Sunday game, maybe it's what they need to just get away from it all and see what happens over there.
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Yeah, or maybe they'll just stay there. That would be fun.
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But yeah, for, for you and I, in greater Philly area, our social network feeds, the ones that we don't run for sports, ones we run for life, talking to the dads at the bus stop, to the guys down here in the neighborhood, Eagled out, Phillied out.
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All is said that's been said. It'd be fun to talk about some other teams today. And I thought that last night we got a lot that we can sink our teeth into with the Atlanta Falcons.
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And, uh, you look at what happened i- on Sunday night with the Carolina Panthers, and I know that we make a lot of jokes about this being the, uh, the ACC East in the NFC South.
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I, I, I know we make a lot of jokes about the Falcons quarterback situation that might be resolving itself.
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But the Falcons go down to New Orleans in a hostile environment against the Saints, their fan base whipped into a frenzy, a- and they punched them in the mouth in all facets last night.
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I, I, I came away really impressed by what I've seen from the Falcons and Kevin Stefanski's team over the last two weeks. Folks, everything in my life is a monkey's paw, okay?
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So it's like, yeah, we're not gonna talk about the Eagles, we're not gonna talk about the Eagles, let's talk about the Falcons. There is no [laughs] escape around here. But you, [laughs]
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you are right, the Falcons, uh, Bijan Rob- Robinson looked great. The Falcons, uh, did not, like, dig their heels in and, and prevent him from beating them. He went out there and did a lot. Their defense played well.
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Good win there. I, I guess my question is, you had that really impressive Falcons performance last night against, say, an okay Saints team.
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Then you had a really impressive Panthers performance against a better, although very get in their own way, injury-plagued, not as good as their reputation Lions team.
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So you had, like, a, a Panthers showcase, and then you had a Falcons showcase. A, we're in hell because we keep watching NFC South teams. But since we're here, who do you like?
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Do you like the Panthers to win that division? Do you like the Falcons or other? I like the Falcons if only because they're healthier right now. Okay. You saw Jalen Phillips get hurt late against the Lions.
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I know there were some key players out for Carolina on Sunday night. But, I mean, it's just they're so multifaceted on offense.
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And I just watched their defense go up and their front seven just, you know, play bully ball against the Saints, who entered with a top 20 offense by DVOA, and Tyler Shulk was in the mix among the league's leading passers.
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That felt like for all we can talk about the Falcons offense, it felt like the defense made a bit of a statement on the road against a quarterback who was playing the best football of his young career last night.
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Yeah, their defense did play better. They will be getting, uh, Pierce back later on in the season. That will probably help their pass rush. I've just... I've never bought into the Saints.
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The Saints didn't really have an offense. They had an Olave, and they had an Olave who would, who would come up in the fourth quarter and get some of these wins, and I think they're fading back to the pack, pack.
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I'm going with the Panthers 'cause I trust Bryce Young more than any other quarterback in that division, okay? Which is damning with faint- As you should... praise. Yes.
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I, I'm, I'm, I'm as much a Tet McMillan fan as I am, almost as much a Tet Mc- Philip McMillan fan as a Bijan fan.
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Um, and, and you're right, the, the health situation is a g- consideration 'cause they're back down to their third and fourth and fifth cornerbacks. I don't know. I think the Phil- Phillips injury is not too serious.
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They might get him back. I think the Panthers have shown in the past that if it comes to big games down the line, they're the ones that are going to figure out some way of getting these wins.
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They're the team that upsets opponents like this frequently. They're the team that is going to win the Sun Belt Conference this year. Yeah.
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Uh, all, all that makes sense, and, and I agree with, on the Bryce Young factor, and I think that he is finally steamrolling downhill with the kind of momentum that they saw when they drafted him, that they hope that he would develop into.
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And I think the continuity there with, with the system- Yeah... and the scheme, I think that that's all working for him.
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But Bijan Robinson feels like the ultimate difference-maker to me, and he's averaged 7.6 yards per carry last night, and at one point it was just above nine yards per carry. Mm.
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And, and somehow, watching with the eye test, it felt like he should be averaging, like, even more than 9.1 yards per carry, 'cause the kind of runs that he was rattling off pretty effortlessly there.
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And over the last two games, he's averaging 7.1 yards per carry, rushing for 343 yards and two scores. He's second in the league averaging 4.21 yards after contact per carry, according to Pro Football Focus.
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And somehow, somehow it just seems like they're just scratching the surface with how they're using him, and what that offense can be with, with Drake London and Kyle Pitts and somehow Jahan Dotson.
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They figured out how to- [laughs]... like, get a play or two out of him- Right... that we haven't seen in years. And Bryce Young is unquestionably, I think, the best quarterback in that division.
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But it, it just seems like Michael Penix is starting to maybe figure it out in Kevin Stefanski's system.
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We'll see against some tougher competition, but it just seems like the Falcons are starting to piecemeal something together here that's exciting to watch and, and could, could develop into a winning formula.
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Yeah, that's my problem there. I think Penix has discovered that Bijan Robinson is averaging 7.9 yards per carry.
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That's what [laughs] I think is happening, and when, when the sustainability of Bijan just carrying that offense in, in these primetime games starts to dissipate, then that team falls back to the pack and does what they always do, which is win seven or eight games.
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Whereas the Panthers, who tend to always, like, win eight games or whatever, have more pads. And we've been talking about Bryce Young.
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Kevin in the chat asks, "Is Bryce Young actually a decent or, God forbid, quarter- good quarterback?" I'll say, like, like, we can talk around in circles about Bryce Young.
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For me, it's kind of like he's developed steadily. He has developed steadily throughout his career, starting with that benching two years ago, to the point where, as a pocket guy,
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because of his height, because he has to throw balls away sometimes, because he's got to sail them high.
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In the pocket, he's like a C+ kind of guy, but on the move, he's like a B+ kind of guy because he's very creative, he's looking downfield, he's very aware of how to avoid negative plays.
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And so if you've got a C+ and a B+, you kind of got a B. If you got a B in, in the, in the NFC, in the NFC South, you've got something.
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I think that there are two pieces that can push him higher when everything is clicking at his best, and that's, A, familiarity in Dave Canales' system, because we've now seen a track record where Baker Mayfield ascended the longer he was in Dave Canales' system.
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And Tedarrell McMillan is just a superhuman target, and when you can find ways to get him involved early, often, and throughout a game, that combination, to me, it starts to accelerate Bryce Young's development, and you're starting to see him get better every week.
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He's leading the league in passing right now, and, and you can't, you can't take that away from him. Niraj Patel at the YouTube chat, @mattlombardo975 on YouTube, go subscribe over there.
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Niraj Patel, uh, asks, "Is Zach Robi- was Zach Robinson a problem in Atlanta?" I don't know that we can go say that he was a problem.
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I think maybe he was holding them back to a degree, but the infusion of Kevin Stefanski's influence on Michael Penix seems to have at least, um, lit the fuse of Michael Penix's development that we hadn't seen, uh, under the previous staff.
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Yeah, though again, at the same time, this was a team that was often win- getting eight wins, and when you go back and you look at the Falcons when they would get their wins, remember, they beat the Rams last year.
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They beat the Bills last year. When you go back and look at Falcons 2025 wins, the common factor is usually Bijan running off, like, a 75-yard touchdown and a couple other big plays.
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So I, from the Falcons, I do want to see a progression. I think from the Panthers, I am seeing that progression. Now again, with the big caveat that J.C.
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Horn and Mike Jackson are two, like, solid NFL cornerbacks that are both out. Their backups are guys that were getting picked on. They were getting picked on by the Lions.
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So they've got to figure out what to do for the next couple weeks until they get those guys.
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And, and I think that they were, they had a running start, so to speak, because you're starting from a roster that found a way to win the division last year with a quarterback who found a way to take Matthew Stafford in an MVP season to the brink in a home playoff game last year.
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So you had that experience under your belt, and you had a GM that wasn't afraid to go out and, and spend big to bring in Jalen Phillips to bolster the pass rush, to go in and bring in a Devin Lloyd at linebacker to add some stability and some dynamic play-making ability to the front seven.
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You plugged holes, and you were just kind of waiting to see if Bryce Young could be the guy.
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A- and you set him up with, with an improved defense, with playmakers that are developing alongside him, a- and he's taking those steps.
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So if you're a Panthers fan, I think you have to feel really good about the trajectory and the direction that they're on right now.
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I, I just happen to look at the, the defense starting to feel itself in Atlanta, a quarterback who seems like a rocket ship, and Bijan being the difference-maker.
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I, I happen to like Atlanta a little bit mo- better, little bit more, but I think that's gonna be a really fun and competitive division to watch down the stretch, as much as we haven't been able to say that about the NFC South for a long time.
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Right. When those two teams play, it will be fun, as fun as that division gets. But we've now talked for about 10 minutes about the NFC South, and I fear our metrics are cratering at this point.
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There is like, if people are tuning out, they are throwing their phones away, they are gouging their eardrums out. So I'm gonna switch gears a little bit right now.
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And since we were talking about Bijan, talking about Tet, um, I thought I'd look at Offensive Player of the Year candidates right now, just to look at some of these guys, non-quarterbacks, uh, who are having phenomenal seasons.
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Tet is not on this top five list These are the, uh, these are the money lines at DraftKings. I'm gonna work my way up the list.
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I'm gonna start with at number five, my kind of, my kind of early season candidate for Offensive Player of the Year at plus 1500, CeeDee Lamb. To himself on Sunday. Just a bit. 17 [laughs] 17 catches.
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I mean, caught everything thrown his way. Couple of touchdowns. Uh, obviously there's the Dak Prescott factor for CeeDee Lamb to win that award. Dallas is gonna have to win that division, I feel like, right? Yeah.
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I mean- Yeah. What?... 'cause, 'cause we've all been down that road with the Cowboys, and, and they might. Yeah. If they play it like they did on Sunday, the- they just might. Right, right.
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The, the, we might leave the Eagles in London, and that, that could be a opportunity for the Cowboys. Okay. But, uh, we love CeeDee. That- that's plus 1500. If you like that, gamble responsibly, play it.
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Last year's winner, Jackson Smith-Njigba is at plus 1,000. Pre- that is a great number. Like that- Yeah...
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that, that's a, that's a great investment to, to buy low on JSN, who you know i- is gonna be the focal point of that offense.
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You know that Sam Darnold's gonna funnel the ball through him, and he's gonna make the kinda catches that you expect him to make in big moments, as he certainly did, uh, against the Chargers on Sunday afternoon.
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Uh, if it weren't for a couple of the names as we get a little bit higher on the list here- Mm-hmm...
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I'd probably be, be picking a JSN repeat, but I don't know that I'm ready to go there with my official quarter season prediction just yet.
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Same, and also he doesn't have the element of surprise, and if he matches last year's totals, that might just send voters to be like, "Uh, okay. Well, who's the other guy? Let's spread this around."
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At plus 600, Bijan Robinson. I, I posted about this on social last night over on Threads, that I, I look at Bijan Robinson, and the numbers are off the charts. The metrics are off the charts. We touched on some of them.
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It, it feels like he's one of these rare exceptions where it almost doesn't matter what- Right... the Falcons are- Right... because he's, he, he changes that entire roster. He changes how you game plan.
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He changes the offense's ceiling every single week, every single series. He changes the way defensive coordinators have to defend the Falcons.
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I, I, I think that if the Falcons win that division and, like, you know, are one of the top two or three seeds in the conference, I think he runs away with it.
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If he has a Saquon Barkley or better season, like we saw from Saquon in, in 2022 or 2023, whenever that was, uh, then, then I think that he could be... Like, he could win that award and get MVP votes.
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He's, he's so dynamic. But I think that the Falcons, for him to win the award, they almost have to be relevant at the end. Do they not? Yeah. They, they, they've gotta get to, like, 10 wins.
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I mean, if they get, if the Falcons get to 10 wins, all eyes will be on Bijan 'cause, again, that's gonna be the guy who gets the credit. Obviously he, he could get a 2,000-yard rushing season.
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All of those things are in play. In the meantime, y- if you are somebody who plays a lot of props and everything, look for your Bijan props.
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Although be careful, because when they've got control of a game, they know that they have to rest him, and that's where you get... I love that Brian Robinson, on the back of his jersey, it's, like, Robinson Jr.
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It's Robinson Jr., so there's a... I- I- I- it's, it's almost like, yeah, uh, we, we sent his kid out there, right? You know?
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[laughs] Well, I, I, I, I joked about this last night because when you draft in fantasy- Yeah... like, B. Robinson Jr.- Yeah... ATL running back, how many folks were picking second or third [laughs] and drafted Ba- B.
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Robinson Jr. instead of Bijan Robinson? Big night for them last night. They got the two touchdown runs. Um, [laughs] but- But-... but, like, yeah.
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[laughs] But, you know, especially for a casual fantasy gamer, "Oh, Robinson touchdown, that's my guy." Then you have to explain to them that there are two B. Robinsons on the same team.
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Um, serves you right for being a casual fan. That's all I'm saying. Um, Jahmyr Gibbs, plus 400. He was our preseason pick, right?
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Like, uh, he, I, I, I think I wrote that he was gonna break the, the rushing record and that he would have that kind of a season, and he'll stay, still take control of games. He's still the ultimate weapon.
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Um, he, he's still, I think, the engine that drives what the Lions do best. I, I'm kinda fading on, on Jahmyr Gibbs, though because- Yeah...
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I think that the, the Lions, whether it's the injuries, the inability to close against, you know, high caliber quality teams, just seems to be lacking all of a sudden.
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Um, [laughs] it just seems like Gibbs' impact isn't the same as, say, a Bijan or the, the next name, the favorite on this list.
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I, I, I don't, I don't know that I'm still riding the Gibbs train in terms of this year's Offensive Player of the Year. Are you? That's, that's exactly it. The problem isn't, well, how good is Gibbs?
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It's like, how well will the Lions support him in this company? [laughs] We're not, we're not suggesting he's not gonna end up with, you know, 14, 15 touchdowns and 1,800 total yards.
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It's will, will he line up with these guys? Will the Lions give him opportunities?
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Or will it be like it was the Sunday night game where, you know, you, you played well earlier in the game, but we're down by f- two and a half touchdowns or whatever, and we have to play catch-up, and we can't get you the ball anymore.
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And, you know, we like Bijan, we like Gibbs, we like CeeDee, but the top of the list here is somebody I know you're very high on, and with good reason. At plus 380, Kenneth Walker. Yeah.
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Bet, bet the mortgage payment on Kenneth Walker at this point, right?
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Like, [laughs] I, I, I di- I, I, I think he runs away with it as long as he stays healthy, and that's the biggest variable is can he hold up through a 17-game season with the workload that Andy Reid and the Chiefs are giving him?
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Because last year he had, you know, Zach Charbonnet to spell him, and at times- Yeah... Kenneth Walker was, like, 1A to Zach Charbonnet as RV1 in Seattle. Charbonnet gets hurt.
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He, uh, uh, Walker has the postseason and Super Bowl of his life, cashes in with Kansas City, and they, they've turned him into the most impactful weapon in the sport right now. Mm-hmm. But can he stay healthy?
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To me, that's the only variable, that's the only roadblock to Kenneth Walker actually winning this thing. Right, and that's the roadblock...
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W- I'm not so much worried about Bijan Robinson 'cause they do have another back there. It's a Gibbs roadblock too. 'Cause the, the who can stay healthy with the workhorse back? Gibbs has no backup,
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honestly, at this point. Whereas, and Walker has a backup that they're not gonna use as much. They don't have Brian Robinson Jr., Captain Marvel Jr. out there to do that.
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By the way, Kevin in the chat asks, "Has anyone ever won Offensive Player of the Year twi- twice in a row?" You gotta go back a minute to when Marshall Faulk ra- won it 1999, 2000, and 2001.
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That's the last person to win Offensive Player of the Year two times in a row, unless I'm missing someone. I'm double-checking.
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And then if you go back into the '70s, Earl Campbell won it three times in a row in the '70s. But it is an award, it has recently become non-quarterback of the year.
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That's what it's become recently, like Playmaker of the Year. Uh, before that it was often quarterback runner-up of the year. There were a few times when MVP and Offensive Player of the Year was the same thing.
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There's no rule that says they can't, except the voters try to spread it out now. So, for Jackson, Smith, and Jigba to do that, you'd have to have really, like, another historic season for a historic team.
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So who are you going with here? I- if, if, if the season ended today and we had to hand in our ballot, I, I, I'm giving it to Kenneth Walker, but who are you, who are you writing, whose name are you writing down?
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Uh, the plus 380, if I'm doing this, I'm gonna get the plus 1500 and get CeeDee Lamb. Okay?
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And then I'm, I'm betting on Cowboys winning the division, Lamb being this big part of it, and staying healthy because it's easier for a wide receiver to stay healthy and have that kind of year than it is for a running back to do it.
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That, that's the reason, not as a knock on- A- and these guys are all difference makers- Yeah... but I think that it's a fun exercise four weeks into the year. Yes.
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There are some pretty surprising teams that are dominating right now. Um- Mm-hmm...
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a- and some teams that we might have expected to be dominating, but it, it's in new ways, like Kenneth Walker in Kansas City and some other, you know, bust-out players.
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So I wanted to go through and pick out the guy making the biggest difference, whether it's, uh, a player, offensive playmaker, defensive player, a coach. Uh- Mm-hmm...
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your, your rule was no quarterbacks, which I respect. Yeah. No. And I, and I just wanna start with Kansas City. Yeah, uh, like, we, we can all point to Patrick Mahomes, but, but no, no quarterbacks.
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Well, take, take the quarterback off the board for the purpose of this conversation. Take, yeah, take them off the board. Right.
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Take it off the board so that we're not just talking about quarterback, quarterback, quarterback here. The difference maker among the other people involved in the organization. And, and we picked out the teams.
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Didn't do every three-and-one team, but I think we've got all the undefeateds in there and a selection of the three-and-one teams that are surprising, and we're gonna start with the Chiefs.
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Are, are you going with Kenneth Walker? I, I am, because I think- Okay... he changes everything for the Kansas City Chiefs. A- and that was kinda my expectation when they signed him.
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Like, you enter the fourth quarter of that game and you're down 13 to 10, not a lot of momentum either way, and Walker rushes for 30 yards and two touchdowns in the fourth quarter. Yeah.
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He carried the ball 22 times against the Raiders and picked up a first down on six of those runs. He leads the league in forced missed tackles with 43.
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Jahmyr Gibbs is second with 28, so that's a pretty big difference [chuckles] in terms of forced missed tackles, which is wild. Yeah.
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And Scott Kacsmar on, on social media points out that Walker's 537 rushing yards are the eighth most by a running back in a season in the Mahomes era, and he's played four games. Right?
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So you have a full season in front of you, which is wild. So I think that he just changes everything about the Chiefs.
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I think this might actually be the most dangerous version of the Chiefs offense that we've ever seen, and I spoke to a scout about why that is for Monday's column, and he told me, quote, that, "Kenneth Walker is a naturally instinctive runner with one of the best play callers in the game.
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They have enough weapons to spread you out, so you can't just load up the box, thanks to guys like Ray Rice, Xavier Worthy, Travis Kelce, and Jaylen Thornton. You just hope that Thornton is okay," unquote.
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It just feels like Walker has thrown everything open for them. And to me, w- without Kenneth Walker, I think they lose that football game the other day. Yeah.
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And, and, it, it probably changes the entire dynamic of that division. Right. The Raiders game is a fine example.
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If they tried to play that game the way they played last year, where they were getting nothing from their running game, and Mahomes has to do everything with his over-the-top plays to Thornton, but nothing else, they don't win that game.
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Walker's been everything. A team trying to get the missing piece running back, this is like the template for doing that.
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Like, "Oh, yeah, we, we have just about everything else, and we need a missing piece running back," and here it is, going from, like, negative value from running back to extremely high value.
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I think the enemy has also had something to do with that. Um, but the... It's a different team. By the way, you mentioned Thornton being injured. You mentioned old Chiefs. You know who's rumbling this week? Tyreek Hill?
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Tyreek Hill. I- Tyreek Hill. I, I have no idea what he has at this point, 'cause he's been out for, like, over a year, but Tyreek Hill's rumbling, and he seems to be rumbling towards the Chiefs.
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Yeah, uh, I think that it makes sense, Tyreek Hill going to Kansas City. He knows that system better than anybody. Th- they know him. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
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If they're interested in re-signing him, they're, they're, they're comfortable with him, the person, as much as they are- Right... him, the player, and I think that matters.
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You know, outside of this being, like, an Odell Beckham Jr ceremonial reunion- Yeah... it's, the, th- there's no risk here for them, right? Because they need help at wide receiver. They need depth.
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And just going back to Kenneth Walker, I think that he, he makes the explosive plays more likely, because you gotta start creeping safeties up into the box at some point- Right... to prevent those big runs.
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And it makes them more effective when you hit on them, because i- it's harder to defend them. Y- you can't do both at the same time, right? You can't defend the big play and load the box up at the same time.
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Right, and it's two types of wins now, where you win because of his explosives in the Raiders game.
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You w- you make sure you seal that win against the Colts, because you can run the clock out at the end of that game while getting into field goal range. You don't say, "Oh, we got 40 yards till field goal range.
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How many different, like, screen passes can we throw to get it in there?"
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You can just play more primitive brand of football, and that's the kind of double impact that Walker has had, where he's helping with ball control and he's helping with big play capabilities. So we're in agreement.
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We're not reinventing the wheel. With the Chiefs. Let's go over to the 49ers, undefeated. You're not allowed to pick Brock Purdy.
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And we'll, we'll see if you just pick, pick one of the, one of the guys, like one of the guys. What, who did you pick? I went with Fred Warner here, because- Okay, yeah, okay...
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he just seems like the spark for the entire defense, right?
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And we can talk all we want about stats, specific impacts within a game, and I think the stats are eventually gonna come and start to like stack up for a guy like Fred Warner as the season goes along, but there's this whole trickle-on effect to when he's on the field and when they're missing him.
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And he's almost an attitude adjustment for that entire defense. You saw it a couple of the key third down spots, uh, stops in the opener against the Rams. You saw a takeaway. He's an absolute beast in coverage.
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Pro Football Focus points out that opposing quarterbacks have just a 66 passer rating when targeting him, ninth best among linebackers in the league. So he's versatile, he's the green dot player, which I think matters.
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Yes. Um, they're ranked the top-ranked defense in defensive DVOA, and I think he's a big piece of that puzzle. He absolutely is, and they missed him badly last year.
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But you can see how you can take Nick Bosa out, and they can still manufacture things. If you take Fred Warner out, it's a whole different, like, mentality there. I was on, I was on the same page.
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I didn't wanna get- Yeah... you know, one of the offensive guys. Like, ah- Right... George, George Kittle, yeah, yeah, big run, McCaffrey. I went with defensive coordinator Raheem Morris, okay?
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This is a defense where you had guys who were backups last year who have stepped up this year, who were making mistakes last year, sometimes looked lost, and now, with Warner's [laughs] help, of course, these guys are in better position, these guys are playing physical.
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I think it's a more dynamic scheme. If you look around at what the other former, uh, coordinators for Shanahan are doing right now, not a lot going on in Tennessee. It's like I, I, like, I don't even...
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Did they play last week? I kinda even lost track of Tennessee last week. Um, not much going on really with the Texans somehow. Like, that- Somehow... I mean, DeMeco Ryans is a heck of a coach in terms of a motivator.
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I don't know schematically what they're doing. They just seem to be standing there w- wondering why they're not winning.
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Um, you look at what Raheem Morris and the Niners are doing right now with depleted, with, w- with injury losses as usual, really shutting down opponents like the Broncos, shutting down opponents like the Rams.
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Yeah, and I think that, I mean, if we wanna talk about offense, you can look at Mike Evans. His arrival has- Yes... really made a difference in terms of that entire offense.
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But I, I, I just look at, I, I look at that, that team right now, at least on offense, it just seems like Kyle Shanahan and Brock Purdy have, like, mind-melded, and they're, they're, like Purdy's playing some of the best football of his career.
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But the impact of the offense is almost exaggerated by how well they're playing defensively right now. Absolutely. Let's, let's go on to our next team here. Vikings are undefeated.
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And- I'm really bullish on the Vikings, by the way You're bull- Really bullish By the way, the Vikings press, the Vikings press are, are almost like the Eagles press these days. Yeah. They're like the anti-Packers press.
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Uh, "We are 4-0, and this will not last." And they're pointing out years past where they won a lot of, like, one-score games, you know, manufactured these wins, and the team fell apart. I respect that.
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At the same time, we respect that defense. I wanted to give you a wide berth here with my choice, uh, even though I did write some stuff about their defense in the last couple weeks. Who did you pick for the Vikings?
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I went Brian Flores, because this, this guy is just maniacal when it comes to- [laughs]... sending pressure. Yes. Vikings are going into Su- They're going into Sunday against the Dolphins.
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The Vikings are blitzing it at an heard-of 71%- [laughs]... clip. 71%. It was 50% last year. Yeah. Who, who's, like, I don't, you probably don't have it up, like second place is probably, like, 38%.
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It, it's, it's something like that, right? Right. But you, you, you like, you... I'm actually writing a deep feature on this for later this week. I'm talking to Blake Cashman later today, which will be great.
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That'd be great. Um, but the Vikings lead the league with 12 sacks. Blake Cashman leads the league with 11 pressures. Wow. The Vikings are third in takeaways. They're holding opponents to 12.3 points per game right now.
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Get this, they haven't allowed a touchdown since the second quarter of week one against the Packers. So- Holy cow. Oh my God, he's right. Right? So it, I mean, it's- [laughs]...
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just insane what they're doing, and that's where I just scratch my head at people. Like, every week I put out the, the Monday six on social. Yeah.
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And I, I'm consistently listing the Vikings as one of the six best teams, and people are like, "Oh, ha ha, the Vikings stink." Oh yeah, well, go look at the numbers.
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Go find out how easy it is to win games when the defense is allowing 12.3 points per game. People can point fingers all they want at it eventually coming home to roost.
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Eventually you're gonna need something from the offense. Yeah. Uh, but when you're holding def- when your defense is holding teams to under 14 points per game, you're gonna win your fair share of games.
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And I saw last year a really middling, middle-of-the-pack Bears defense make a run to the divisional playoff game, basically because they created a lot of takeaways.
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Vikings are creating a lot of takeaways, and they're ambushing quarterbacks right now. That's a tough combo to beat. Right, and what happens if that offense gets to... We've seen Kyle Murray be kind of okay.
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We've seen that in history. What if Kyle Mu- Mu- m- Kyle Murray with all those weapons and Jefferson comes back, rediscovers kinda okay when he's getting the ball at, like, the 50-yard line all the time?
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Sure, it comes home to roost. It comes home to roost, and the team's 13 and 4 or 12 and 5. Yes, sure. They're 4 and 0 right now. That defense is proven.
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Brian Flores, phenomenal, absolutely ridiculous, like historic what they're doing blitzing-wise. Uh, I wanted to just go in a different direction, 'cause you're talking to Blake Cashman.
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I wrote about Dallas Turner a couple weeks ago. I wrote about these guys too, but I just wanted to highlight them. Their defense is number one in the N- It's number two in the NFL in DVOA, I think.
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Their special teams is number one.
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And I wanted to point out kicker Will Reichard, who has been, like, winning games for them for a couple years, is 12 of 12 on field goals right now, kind of an automatic 50-yard field goal guy, and kick returner Miles Price, who has gotten...
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We talk about how you need to get that offense to midfield Price gets in the midfield with his returns. He had a big punt return where ta- ta- touchdown two weeks ago.
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And then when he gets them to midfield, Reichard is like, "I got you if you can get to, like, the 40-yard line."
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So those are helping Flores, all those defensive players, put this team in offensive rem- remediation and keep them undefeated. Right, and you're creating the short fields that you talked about, right?
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And, and eventually Justin Jefferson's gonna break loose. It, it's just gonna happen. You're, you're gonna have a game where, like, he has two catches for 93 yards and two touchdowns, right?
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Like, it's just, that, that type of game is coming for Justin Jefferson, and even when your offense is as limited as theirs is, defense still wins when it matters.
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We, we watched, we just watched a Super Bowl where it was Boye Mafe and Devin Witherspoon and- Yeah... you know, Leonard Williams just strangle the life out of the Patriots offense, and Drake Maye was the MVP runner-up.
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Defense travels, and they have the most punishing defense in the game right now. Right.
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We literally just saw a Super Bowl team that was, it's all defense and special teams, and then the offense finally gets out of its own way as it goes on, with a quarterback that you don't think can win.
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We literally just saw that last year. Yeah. [laughs] That is what the Vikings are right now, and they're demonstrating a proof of concept that it'll work.
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I'm not putting them in the Super Bowl right now, but the idea that we can just write them off, that I think would be the foolish way of looking at it. Pat Angorian Axe checks in on the YouTube comment section.
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I saw on Threads a comment like, "This team looks good enough to lose their first home playoff game." Yeah. [laughs] Maybe, maybe. But you worry about it then.
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You worry about what happens against the better offenses at that point, because somewhere along the way here, like you said, Kyler Murray could just get to be about average.
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And about average with that defense is gonna be pretty hard to beat. Look at it this way, Vikings fans, you could be the home playoff team that gets the wild card Eagles stumbling in with nine wins- [laughs]...
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everyone ready to murder each other. They got there because the defense got themselves together or whatever, and that, that could be that home playoff victory that you so crave against the team that has
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beaten you in the playoffs in the past, a little bit of revenge. That's the way to look at this.
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Let's move over to the Jaguars, and I, I know who you're going t- with on this list, I get it ahead of time, a- and I'm gonna snag the player who allowed the Jaguars to really double down on the best way to use your pick this season.
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Um, a- and, and my guy here is Parker Washington, my guy. Um, leading receiver, 16 catches, 228 yards, two scores. Trevor Lawrence obviously loves throwing to him.
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He has a 103.1 passer rating when targeting Parker Washington. Bengals keyed in on him last week, made him basically irrelevant. He was only targeted on 13% of Lawrence's dropbacks.
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But I think he bounces back against the Eagles in London, and, you know, I, I can't get over the fact that up until that game against the Bengals, he was kind of the focal point of that passing attack, and might still be.
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One of the things is his best play, all the best plays of the Jaguars in that game were called back by penalties or something. His best play was called out.
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He had the game-winning play where he caught a crossing route, ran up field for 35 yards, and that was gonna be run out the clock time.
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And then they look at the replay and his pinky toe stepped out of bounds, and they called it back, and they were forced to punt, and that let the, the Bengals come down and attempt a final drive.
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So Washington is out there, he's doing that. He's the gobbler. He's the third down gobbler. He's catch a crossing pass and turn up field gobbler.
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Very important to that offense, and because he's doing all that kind of thing, they don't need Travis Hunter on offense anymore. And Travis Hunter- Right... has turned into a normal, good, Pro Bowl cornerback.
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He had a big interception against Drake May. Had an interception called back by a penalty in the Bengals game.
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Was doing a good job against the Bengals receivers until the Bengals receivers got hurt, and then he did a good job against those other guys who I don't even feel like trying to name right now.
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Uh, and, and by the way, we, we were talking a little bit, I saw you, you were getting into it a little bit.
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It looks like Travis Hunter on defense and wide receivers on offense makes sense for the Jaguars team that's kicking everybody's butt. And yet some Jaguars observers don't see it that way.
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I, I, I don't understand it and, and, like, you know, rival executives, a rival general manager told me back in August that- Mm-hmm...
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he had heard and he had thought that the plan all along was for Travis Hunter to be primarily and nearly exclusively a corner this year.
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And oh, gee willikers, four weeks into the season, guess who doesn't play an offensive snap on Sunday? Right. Travis Hunter. And, and- Yeah... people will point to the injuries and out of necessity- Yeah...
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he had to play corner, fine, whatever. The injuries might have been the, the reason- Mm-hmm... that he had to play corner exclusively, but that doesn't mean that's not what they wanted to do all along.
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How healthy does a team have to be to say, "Oh, our starting cornerback can take a couple of snaps off on defense to play offense"? Who's got that depth? Right. Who has got that depth?
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You know, it's like, ah, you know, Quinyon Mitchell, you can go play some offense right now 'cause, 'cause we're fine on defense 'cause we got so many Reek Wills. No team is like that.
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My, my theory is, all due respect to some of the guys we joke around with, are you guys sure you're not James Gladstone burner accounts? I th- I, I think some of the folks are glad-pilled.
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They're glad-pilled because they want so badly for, for, like, this, this vision.
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It, it's not ju- not just that the team has to win, but this vision that they have has to be the case, and it's like, dude, Gladstone's gotta get out of his own way, and that's how this team's gonna win.
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Yeah, and, and people envision Dion. I think there's a bit of, like, Mandela effect going on with how people remember Dion Sanders as a receiver. Correct. Yes.
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Because every time he was a receiver, it was a big play waiting to happen, but it was something like less than, like, 15% of the offensive snaps that he ever played as a receiver.
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It was, like, some v- minisculely small- It, it-... sample size of, of offensive receiver. It was not until he was in the c- the league, like, eight years. He was a return man
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And he, every once in a while there would be a trick play, but I think those were extremely rare. It was like, other guys like, like, uh, like w- like Charles Woodson were more likely to play on offense.
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And then one year, when Jared Jones had taken the team away from, from Jimmie Johnson or, or, or, and gave it to Switzer or somebody, it's like, he's gonna play both ways.
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And Sanders had a really good year playing both ways, except I want you to go game by game in Pro Football Reference- Yeah... I think it was 1995, because by week nine, Deion Sanders is not playing offense anymore. No.
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Go back and look it up. Right, and, and that's where, like, the, the Deion blueprint felt like the blueprint, that the plan in Jacksonville was we're gonna play him on maybe 10 offensive snaps per game, maybe, if that.
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A- and you'd have to be fine with that if you're getting lockdown cornerback one level cornerback play from Travis Hunter, which is what they're getting right now. Right. So they, they weren't...
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There wasn't, I think that there was an understanding, at least people I spoke to inside the league, there was an understanding in Jacksonville that we put too much on Travis Hunter's plate- Mm-hmm...
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last year as a receiver. Yeah.
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It's one thing to have him out there as a gadget player, a big play threat a handful of times per game, but it's too much to have your best corner playing wide receiver 35, 40% of the snaps, whatever the number is off the top of my head.
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Yeah, and that's the way a lot of people went into it. The thing is, Gladstone and Cohen refused to admit it. Okay?
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'Cause they don't, they, uh, especially the GM there, he doesn't quite have the gene in his brain that admits a mistake. That comes with age. As for me, you know I, I admit all of my mistakes.
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You, you don't have that gene yet, so we gotta still wait for you to, to age into it, right? [laughs] I keep it, I keep it in the hat. That's where I keep that gene, okay? [laughs] So, so, right.
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So that's, so he would like, "No, no, no, we're, we're still doing the two-way thing," et cetera. And of course, Hunter did play some snaps on offense this year.
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Yes, I think we will see him run some end arounds and things like that later on in this year. But, uh, the, the blueprint now is not he is Deion Sanders or Chuck Bednarik.
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He's going to be a starting cornerback that will sometimes have a specialized package on offense. Maybe when there's an injury on offense he plays a little more, maybe it's just situational.
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Maybe it's just two trick plays a game just to make everybody feel like, "Hey, isn't this fun? We're still doing this." Let's switch gears. Uh, you have Travis Hunter, right? So you have Travis Hunter for the Jaguars.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So we'll switch gears, we'll go to the Chicago Bears. Uh, I took a bit of a, a bust out here. Okay. I went with rookie safety Dylan Thieneman as the difference maker.
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Good one, good one, yes. First round safety playing his way into the Defensive Rookie of the Year conversation.
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Leads the Bears with 20 tackles, has one pass breakup, but he's just one of the more reliable center fielders in the league right now. Like, he's turned his part of the field into a bit of a no-fly zone.
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Um, three pass breakups, one interception, and he's only been targeted in the passing game nine times, allowing four catches for 50 yards, and he's holding opposing quarterbacks to a pa- uh, get this, a passer rating of just 22.7 when they throw to his part of the field, according to PFF.
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So every game this year, the first four weeks, the Bears leading tackler has been rookie safety Dylan Thieneman, and for a team that's playing, uh, revolving door backup quarterback roulette offensively- [laughs]...
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what he's giving them as a backstop on defense is also giving them a bit of an identity and a stabilizing force. Had the big interception against Philly. Um- Yeah...
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just seems like he is playing his way into being a sudden superstar in Chicago. What, what a, uh, and what a great choice that they picked up. Just an unbelievably fast and instinctive defensive player.
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You're right, he's made an impact, and you're right, the opponents having a hard time throwing over the middle of the field right now. Obviously, the Eagles never like to do that.
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The, the Jets could not get anything going downfield against them. And the Jets do have some good receivers, they don't have a completely inept passing game this year. You're seeing teams trying to avoid that.
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I wanna just look up real quick, is he in the Defensive Rookie of the Year conversation? And by conversation, I mean on the, uh, money list. Odds. On the board. Is he on the board? Is he on the board?
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Because he should be. And my thing will not... Hold on. I ca- I can't refresh. Here we go. Well, one of the reasons he's pretty far down on the list is 'cause Arval Willis.
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[laughs] Two weeks in a row, the, uh, rookie of the week in between the hash marks four downs.
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We're just gonna call it the Arval Willis, uh, Award, uh, now because, like, that, that dude is just terrorizing, terrorizing, uh, offensive lines and quarterbacks. Right. Jacob Rodriguez, Sonny Stiles, David Bailey.
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Thie- Thieneman is in there with Caleb Downs. Oh, and let's not forget Hezekiah Masses, who's somebody else- Yeah... yeah, who's an easy name to remember in addition to everything else.
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'Cause even if you don't remember your name, like, who's that guy who sounds like it's like some reading from the Bible? What, what's the guy? Hezekiah Masses. That's the dude. Hezekiah Masses. Right, right. Uh, [laughs]
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but, uh, I went with, 'cause there's a lot of surprise contributors, I didn't just wanna do Ben Johnson, even though Ben Johnson's amazing. So I went with a couple of linemen right now for the bu- uh, uh, Chicago Bears.
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Darnell Wright and Jonah Jackson on the right side of that line, absolutely thumping everyone in sight.
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And when you see DeAndre Swift and Kahrim Allen-Guy just running the ball down everyone's throat that they face, and you watch the blocking on there, kind of a team effort. It's kind of everybody, it's kind of schematic.
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But man, the right side of that Bears line is just an absolute difference maker, and it's, it's, it's like a jackhammer, and they're putting opponents away using that running game.
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Yeah, and I think that that's an underrated and under-discussed reason why Ben Johnson hasn't had to simplify the offense for either Case Keenum- Mm-hmm... or for, um, Tyson, Tyson Bagent.
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They, they've run the same scheme because the offensive line has been so dominant in front of them.
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They've controlled the line of scrimmage, which l- which lets you dictate with DeAndre Swift when you have to, and it allows you to take shots to Kalif Raymond and to Rome Odunze and Luther Burden when you can So yeah, I think it's a great pick.
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It's been kind of this stabilizing force for an offense. When we go back to week two when they played the Lions, they looked like they were gonna be in a lot of trouble without Caleb Williams.
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Th- they, they have not skipped a beat against either the Eagles or certainly [chuckles] not against the Jets.
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I mean, I think they ran the ball, they, they held the ball for all but, like, 17 plays or something outrageous like that against the Jets.
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But it was just, they were, it was marching down the field, and it was funny 'cause they would get to, like, the five-yard line, and they would need every one of their plays to punch it in.
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I think they got stopped one time, and then there'd be a penalty, they'd need four more plays. But they controlled the line of scrimmage. They've had instability on the left side. They had to put Braxton Jones on IR.
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Uh, they've been down to, like, their number three guy at left tackle.
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But on the right side, and that just creates a situation where you have something you can depend upon, you start there, then you work play action off of that, and it has been working for the Bears.
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Bears had 34 first downs against the Jets. Oh my God. Off the top of your head, how many, how many do you think that the Jets had? Off the... You can look. I'm not letting you go to NFL Jesus and look here.
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I know the Jets were 0 of 9 on third down. Uh, so I'm gonna go with six. Uh, they had [chuckles] seven first downs- That wasn't ba- The Jets. That wasn't bad. It was, it was pretty, pretty close off the top of your head.
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That, that, that's a great guess. Well, ma- Total offensive plays, the, the Bears in a ball control, uh, clinic. 89 total plays. The Jets, 32. My gosh.
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It really d- And it, if you go back and watch a replay of that game, it will feel that way, where you'll go to get, like, a sip of your coffee, and there'll be a three and out by the Jets.
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You'll have missed it, and you're like, "Wait, wait, how do the Bears have the ball back at their own 24 yard line again? Oh, the Jets punted that quickly." That was quite a game. Where are we at now? Yes.
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So we're gonna go to the Las Vegas Raiders. Bears, Jets. The upstart Las Vegas Raiders. Uh, I knew your answer. I did not wanna duplicate it, so I went with, uh, Nikobe Dean. That's a good one.
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And I wrote a w- I wrote a long feature on the Raiders' resurgence last week. We're gonna link it in the description on YouTube for this episode, Matt Lombardo 975, and in the podcast.
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Um, but Brian Baldinger told me last week Nikobe Dean has been the spark, calling him, quote, "The ringleader of their hitting party," unquote. [scoffs] He's the green dot player.
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He's been really a spark for the Raiders' defense. Currently ranks 11th in DVOA in team defense. Nikobe Dean has 34 total tackles, two sacks, three forced fumbles, lead all NFL linebackers.
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His five quarterback pressures are 11th best at the position across the league, and I, I don't think anybody expected quite this from the Raiders, at least not this quickly. But we talked about the Raiders this spring.
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I wrote about them a little bit a couple of times. Like, I really liked the off-season that they had there. It was just- Yes... it was professional. Uh, you- Yes...
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you bring in Tyrell Venderbaugh at center to anchor the offensive line for a young quarterback. You bring in Quay Walker with all kinds of athleticism to freelance, uh, at linebacker.
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You bring in Nikobe Dean, who's a thumper at linebacker. You, you were able to have Maxx Crosby fall back into your lap.
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Like, they did a lot of really professional things, and Nikobe Dean might be the biggest, most impactful addition of anyone not named Kirk Cousins who they brought in.
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[laughs] He might be, even if you count Kirk Cousins, if you figure out that a lot- Yeah... of this is systemic.
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And I, I, I am excited by the Raiders, but I also do wanna do a quick, deep cleansing breath to everyone out there that the Raiders have three wins over teams that are now a combined 1 and 11.
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[chuckles] They have two winless teams, and the w- now 1 and 3 Saints. So that's not, that's not shade. That's like, yeah.
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A- and, and you wrote about- No, no, no, the whole, the whole premise, like, I, I, I posted the article in, like, a, a Raiders Reddit feed, and they're like, "Oh, well, why was the Chiefs make or break?"
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No, dude, click the link. The, the whole purpose is this month is gonna tell us everything, 'cause they just had the Chiefs at home. They have New England. They have Buffalo. They have the Rams.
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So it's this five-week stretch where, like, are they real- Mm-hmm... or are they a mirage, right? Are they menaces or are they a mirage? Like, we're gonna find out over this month. It looks great on paper.
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There are a lot of really good things, and I think regardless of what happens over the next four weeks, like, a culture has taken root there.
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But, like, we're gonna find out if they were a September schedule benefactor mirage, or if this is something that's building into a playoff caliber team this year.
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Right, and it's probably somewhere in between, where it's something that's building into that playoff caliber team, and they come out, come out with nine wins, and they get one win out of these upcoming opponents.
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You know, the Bills are always, like, ready to get upset by [chuckles] by somebody. So something like that along the way. And yeah, that builds them on this 500 course, which would be great.
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You, you mentioned Nikobe Dean, you mentioned Quay Walker. Isn't it great that linebackers are back? You mentioned Freddie Warner earlier. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, it's fun.
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Oh, teams are running the ball and playing three tight ends, so that means the linebackers are back, and we can talk about all the various things they do, that we're not just playing touch football out there with the wide receivers and, and the cornerbacks anymore.
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@MagorianAxe checks in on the YouTube feed, "I think they'll be measurably better, but they're not yet dominant. I think they beat the Pats, but lose the other two."
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And if you're a Raiders fan, like, I think you would've signed up for that. I think you would've signed up even for 1 and 3 in the teeth of your schedule with a 3 and 0 start.
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If somebody came to you in July and said that you'd be 4 and 3, I think you'd be thrilled.
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And, and wouldn't, and, and wouldn't it feel good for Raiders fans to go into Foxborough and shove it up Drake May's butt sideways and come out with that?
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And, like, the, the Tuck Rule demons and all these other things, like, that was the changing of history, when the Patriots take over, the Raiders stop being relevant kind of with the Tuck Rule, and you can kind of exorcize demons.
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You get that, and then yeah, well, the, the Rams smoke you. What- whatever. Whatever. You've shown that you're in, you're in position to do these kind of things again.
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And the reason you're in the, that position is because my choice, picking an obvious one here, Clint Kubiak, all that professionalism that you talk about, professionalism in the coaching ranks, the fact that this is a team that plays disciplined.
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Physical, ex- properly executed football. That's such a big reason. The reason Kirk Cousins looks pretty good right now, good blocking, good yak, good play by the tight ends, good scheme.
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These defensive players, they fit in. They're all playing to their capabilities, and they're getting stops, and they're bringing good opponents to the wall, and they're beating bad opponents.
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That's that whole cultural thing we talked about. Clint Kubiak comes in and brings normalcy. The one thing that the Raiders haven't had since Jack Del Rio, that, that's your normal?
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If that's your normal, back when you had Jack Del Rio, that was the normal guy. That's how long it's been since you've had normal. And Kubiak fits them like a glove.
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Like, you're importing so much of the Seahawks philosophy and the Seahawks mentality and the Seahawks culture, you know, with, uh, running back to, uh, with Ashton Jeanty and Mike Washington, with focusing on the tight end with Brock Bowers, with a punishing defense.
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Like, a- and it, and it's a mix of veterans and drafted dudes. Like, you know, you look at the, the secondary, the Trey Stukes, Manasseh. Manasseh we talked about. Like, it's a lot of homegrown young players- Yes...
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that are, like, developing while they're winning. So regardless of what happens this year, just that, like, taste of knowing and learning how to win immediately, that can springboard you.
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That's it, and it's like guys who were in the banana pants scenario and weren't developing.
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You mentioned a couple of rookies there, and you look at the offensive line, some guys I wrote about, like DJ Glaze and Jackson Powers Johnson. It's like, these guys are terrible. They can't see the field.
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No, the coach and the offensive coordinator and the offensive line coach, who's the head coach's son, are not speaking to each other. Yeah. [laughs] This is causing- Yeah... a problem.
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So lo and behold, the offensive linemen are not, uh, making plays and playing with a lot of continuity. That's what's happening. You take that away, you replace it with old-fashioned, this is how football teams are run.
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Not the goofy McDaniel stuff, not the goofy Gruden stuff, not... That year, I think Max Crosby was actually the coach. But, like, just, am I kidding? You would know. [laughs] No, you're not. I do remember.
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I do remember, yes. I honestly forget who the coach was that year. It was just too- I mean, uh, Ris- Ris Picaccio was the, uh, interim coach for a spell. Oh, Picaccio was, w- was, was one.
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Uh, anyway, I, I'm gonna get sidetracked here. Kubiak is my guy. A- and you talk about organizations that are leaning into professionalism and old-school football. Yeah. New York Giants. Yeah.
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And I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go with Javon Holland here. Okay. And Holland has been all over the ball all season long. Um, just think back to the interception against Dak Prescott at the end of the first half in week one.
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The Giants cashed that into a touchdown in a game that was kind of their mission statement of what they want to be. His interception off Cam Ward at the end of the game in the- Yes... end zone to seal a 12 to seven win.
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Like, we can all do the math here. Like, [laughs] if he doesn't intercept that pass in a 12-seven win with 55 seconds left. And th- this stat, this blew my mind.
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Through three games, Holland, um, was the highest graded safety in the NFL. He's forced- Okay... three fumbles. I nicknamed him the Holland Turnover Tuttle.
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[laughs] But through, through the first four weeks, the Giants have eight takeaways.
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Holland is responsible for four of them, and he has more takeaways than 10 teams have [laughs] through the first four weeks of the season. The Holland Pummel. Is that... It's a work in progress, right?
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Ooh, that's even better. Holland Pummel. That's it, the Holland Pummel. If you... But he's more known for the turnovers than- I like Holland Tuttle. Yeah, but, but like the... 'cause- Yeah. [laughs]...
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'cause it's like, yeah, he's pummeling guys. We, we'll workshop it. Yeah, the, yeah, something with Holland Tunnel. We have to go with that there. Uh, love it. Heck of a player. I, I, I forgot Antonio Pierce.
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That was the coach in 2024, where, like, he had to go on Max Crosby's podcast and explain why he was so excited to work with Max Crosby, okay?
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And, and, and Pierce was a heck of a defensive player, uh, for the, for the, uh, Ravens years and years and years ago.
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Kinda rose up through the ranks and was suddenly the head coach of this team, and it's like, are we sure he's the head coach, or is he just kind of blowing a whistle, and then they're doing whatever the offensive coordinator and Max Crosby say?
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Anyway, Holland, heck of a guy having a heck of a season. I hate to be the Giants party pooper, but I chose
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the schedule makers for giving them the Titans and the Cardinals back to back at home in the Meadowlands in the rain. That somewhat will give the wea- the people who control the weather machine as well.
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Love Holland, love some of the things that are going on there. The Giants are a schedule mirage.
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They're, they're, they're a schedule mira- uh, they're a schedule mirage that could still wind up nine and eight or whatever, but they're a schedule mirage who have beaten very clo- won very close games against g- against a couple of very weak opponents.
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The, the next three weeks- Okay... going into their bye week. Yeah. At Washington, who knows if you're even getting Marcus Mariota back? Probably not. Versus the Saints, outside- Okay... at MetLife. All right.
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At Houston, who might've- Yeah... like, quit by then, might've rolled over and, and, and, and quit. Then you got the bye. You got at Eagles, who have no identity whatsoever. [laughs] Washington again. Wow.
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And then Jacksonville, so, like, you c- you can pick up your head over the next five weeks. Three and two has to be the expectation there, right?
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Like- You can get, you can get three and two while being the schedule mirage-y team. You absolutely can. Which puts you at- And you're six, you're six and three at that point. Yeah. Right? Yeah.
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You're six and three, which might be enough to be [laughs] leading the division.
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Right, which, which again is, is testament to professionalism, winning the games you're supposed to win, not being the team that rolls over.
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The Commanders look like they could be the team that rolls over, even if they bring Daniels back. I- if they're, if they're facing the Piscataway Pop Gun, Alvin Kalama- Kalamackus, like, what is happening here?
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Like, he walks into the Meadowlands like, "What, what am I doing here? I'm supposed to be at Jersey Mike's arena." Uh, i- you know? I don't even know, that's- And I- Is that Rutgers' or State's name?
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That's their- I, I got Arv- I got Arvelle Rees coming from over here, I got Abdul Carter- [laughs]... from over here, I got Kevin Thibodeaux up the middle. Yeah.
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I got Javin Holmes who's just trying to pick off every pass I put in the air. Like, it could- Right... it could get ugly. Right, I'm losing a game in the Big 10, when has that happened before?
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Oh, the last five years of my life. That's right. Um, [laughs] where was I? Oh, yeah. The Giants putting themselves up on a rung above those weaker teams, those Commanders, those S- Saints, potentially.
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I think, I think the Texans will pull themselves together and g- get closer to being a good team again. But, um, the, I'm not saying that about the Eagles, you'll notice.
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That's the position you put yourself in if you're going out there and not being a patsy, and these Giants in the past were patsies. All right, let's move to my favorite segment every week. It's the Circle It game.
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Who's your Circle It game this upcoming, uh, weekend? Did I put Bears-Packers on the schedule? You sure did, sir, and I almost fell off my chair. I did not expect that from you.
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I wanna see if the Packers can build their self-esteem against another backup quarterback.
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'Cause they built their self-esteem against Jalen Daniels, undrafted rookie free agent, not being made fun of because I don't have Kansas State jokes the way I have Rutgers jokes, out there kinda doing his best in an ugly game, and the, the, the Packers manufacture it.
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Now, the Bears have- They almost LaFleur'd away that game in Tampa last week. Let's, I mean- Yes... Jamin Daniels almost gave that to them, and you, you had, you had it great in, in the walkthrough of Two Deep Zone.
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They kept trying to give it to them, like, "Hey, here's a win." Yeah. "No, we don't want it. Here's a win." Right. "Oh, you can have it. Oh, here's a win." "Eh, I'm not that interested in that."
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And it was total LaFleur too. It was, yes. "Oh, we're in the red...
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We're in the red zone again, I need to throw a screen pass to the outside right now, then hand the ball off to the kid that the Steelers cut because he fumbles all the time. That's how we're gonna run it." Caleb Johnson.
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"That's how we're gonna do this right now. We're not gonna feature Tucker Kraft," I think Tucker Kraft got one touchdown, by the way. "But we're not gonna feature him all the time.
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We gotta get the ball to all the Skyy Moores, and Caleb Johnsons, and Jonnu McJonnus on this roster," and it almost cost them that game. Yeah, and I, it was LaFleur-ing. I mean, we can now...
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LaFleur-ing a verb, right, alongside- Yes... Falcons-ing and- Yes... Charger-ing. Yeah, it is specifically
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F'ing up in the red zone, [laughs] though I think the LaFleur-ing is F'ing up in the red zone slash getting the ball to the dumbest guys on the roster. I think that's what it might be. But they almost did it.
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The Bears do not do that. The Bears do not do that. We're running to the end of the anti- Micah window, Micah might be returning soon. Packers need this. This is gift wrap for them.
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They had a gift wrap opportunity against the Falcons, and they let the Falcons rewrite their, their story. Almost let the Buccaneers make a Jalen Daniels legacy story. Let's see what happens this week.
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Yeah, I th- I think the, I think the Bears run 'em out of the building. I, I, I think- [laughs]... the Packers are frauds. So I, I just do. Like, I just- Yeah, I just said that, like...
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I saw that fourth quarter against, against, uh, Tampa Bay, and if that's 28 other teams- No... th- they, they lose that game, right? Like, you- Right...
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the, the reason that they won that game is Jalen Daniels, um, with the almost safety. Uh, Jalen Daniels making some mistakes you'd expect an undrafted rookie quarterback to make in his first start.
370
00:57:52.804 --> 00:58:01.944
I don't think the defense is any good. I think that the offense, um, we talk about Philly not having an identity, outside of chucking it deep to- Yeah... Matthew Gold and Christian Watson, and Tucker Kraft.
371
00:58:02.224 --> 00:58:05.444
They can't do anything right now. There's no continuity along the offensive line.
372
00:58:05.964 --> 00:58:17.064
Um, I, I understand why you picked it as your Circle It game, but I think the Bears, I think the Bears plant their flag as the biggest threat to the Vikings in this game once and for all. Mm-hmm. So I love the pick.
373
00:58:17.564 --> 00:58:27.744
Um- What- I, I went with a big one. I went- Yeah... Niners-Seahawks. Yeah. Because the Seahawks might be the best team in football that for some reason, like, I keep forgetting about.
374
00:58:28.264 --> 00:58:35.424
Because they're 3-1, they only tripped up in Hurricane Mariota against the Commanders in the middle of a nor'easter on the road.
375
00:58:36.004 --> 00:58:44.944
Um, sixth in total DVOA, number one defense in DVOA, and they're just wandering around up there in the Pacific Northwest bludgeoning teams again.
376
00:58:45.464 --> 00:58:49.604
Um, Sunday wasn't all that competitive until a fourth quarter Chargers dead cat bounce.
377
00:58:50.204 --> 00:59:02.224
And this is their biggest test to date against the 49ers, who despite all of the injuries, like San Francisco might legitimately be the best team in football right now. Mm. Brock Purdy might be the MVP.
378
00:59:02.644 --> 00:59:14.904
His 126 passer rating leads the league. It's seven points higher than Lamar Jackson's second best. Mike Evans is throwing the playbook open for Shanahan. Christian McCaffrey remains inevitable.
379
00:59:15.364 --> 00:59:23.304
You know- And I think that Kyle Shanahan may, he may be the case study for, like, coaching mattering above everything else.
380
00:59:23.364 --> 00:59:34.604
'Cause the scheme is just working at the highest level right now, so I wanna see how they match up against the Seahawks in a defense that's a litmus test for both teams. My Circle game, Niners-Seahawks.
381
00:59:35.144 --> 00:59:42.944
Seahawks, so easy to kind of overlook that I put together all the 3-1 teams on the, on the schedule, and I, and I put, don't put the Seahawks on there.
382
00:59:43.784 --> 00:59:51.844
You know, when we were doing who the, who the, uh, the difference makers, and part of it was when I looked, I was like, "Ah, we'll just say the JSN, we're gonna talk about 'em earlier, so why, why do that and all?"
383
00:59:52.184 --> 00:59:59.584
But at the same time, it's like this is a phenomenal team, they're the defending champions. Eh. Eh, they're good. They're good. I, I don't know why that is.
384
00:59:59.644 --> 01:00:07.124
Like, I put out the Monday Six on social media every week, and I, I keep forgetting [laughs] the Seahawks, right? I keep forgetting that they exist and they're this dominant.
385
01:00:07.224 --> 01:00:17.024
So, uh, look, they, I, I could see them going back to the NFC Championship game. I just haven't been exposed to their dominance enough to have it sink into this thick skull of mine.
386
01:00:17.504 --> 01:00:27.664
Yeah, it, it's so, it's these three teams. It's them, and the Niners, and the Rams once they, you know, get to go home and get some of their guys back, et cetera. But it's definitely the Seahawks in the thick of that.
387
01:00:28.064 --> 01:00:38.044
And of course, it's another 49ers versus human frailty, 49ers versus final destination type of season. Now we're, like, waiting on a Kyle Juszczyk, uh, i- injury report.
388
01:00:38.084 --> 01:00:49.228
There were a couple other guys, some rank and file guys that we're waiting on injury reports for. They are the best team in the NFL, as long as they can survive. Okay, so Just turn the substation off.
389
01:00:50.028 --> 01:00:56.628
Turn the substation off, but like it's, yeah, of course. [laughs] Like, what are you going to do? Like, we, we don't know what actually causes this. It just happens that way.
390
01:00:57.268 --> 01:00:59.528
One thing about this game, I'll be watching it, it's one of the big games.
391
01:01:00.028 --> 01:01:05.808
When they play again, it's gonna be another one of the big games, and when these teams play the Rams, second time for the Niners, those are gonna be the big games.
392
01:01:06.168 --> 01:01:08.808
This is the story of the NFL, these teams battling each other.
393
01:01:09.108 --> 01:01:18.928
Home field advantage in the playoffs is probably at stake, unless they all beat each other up so much that it creates some opportunity for the Atlanta Falcons. [laughs] Man, can you imagine?
394
01:01:18.928 --> 01:01:31.608
[laughs] Running it out because they're playing an NFC South schedule, I don't know. But this is going to be a huge, huge game, and it's not the Sunday nighter, which I think we can both admit shit. I know.
395
01:01:31.628 --> 01:01:35.808
And maybe, maybe ignore the Sunday nighter. Can we ignore it? Can we... Oh, no. Yeah, Ravens, Falcons.
396
01:01:35.848 --> 01:01:44.308
The Falcons are playing their way into relevance, and Lamar, well, Lamar, Lamar Jackson might be out, so we might be able to, to write it off as, like, another Bijan- Yeah...
397
01:01:44.328 --> 01:01:53.208
pencil him in as Bijan Robinson, MVP of the week, and that'll be the, the end of the, the coverage of that game. Uh- This is how- What do you have coming up on the Two Deep Zone? This is how the Falcons get you. They do.
398
01:01:53.228 --> 01:02:03.008
They stay relevant enough that you have to watch them so they can, like, irritate you in new ways. The Eagles at least irritate you in a way where you're like, "I'm just done with these guys." Okay, what's coming up?
399
01:02:03.048 --> 01:02:11.748
I'm doing Mailbag. Sweet. Lot of Mailbag questions about the Eagles. Those, those will come later in the week. Again, we need a [sighs] little cleanse from the Eagles. They'll come later in the week.
400
01:02:12.088 --> 01:02:20.788
Tomorrow I've got, I answer questions about Brian Flores. We talk a little bit about the Texans defense, talk a little about the Cowboys. All kind of good stuff. It goes all over the place in Mailbag.
401
01:02:21.208 --> 01:02:25.468
What do you have coming up? Big feature on Brian Flores and the Vikings defense- Nice...
402
01:02:25.508 --> 01:02:34.848
why it's working, chatting with Blake Cashman about his role in that defense, some former Vikings players, some people around the league on whether or not this is sustainable.
403
01:02:35.188 --> 01:02:44.008
Can't wait to get out there, probably Thursday morning. Nice. Mailbag on Friday. Send your questions to me. I'll pose them to executives, scouts, former players, uh, and the like.
404
01:02:44.448 --> 01:02:53.968
And, uh, Mike, this was a lot of fun, as it always was, uh, is. I look forward to this every Tuesday. Make sure you subscribe to the Two Deep Zone. Check out betweenthehashmarks.com.
405
01:02:54.048 --> 01:03:06.008
Subscribe to Between the Hash Marks podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Amazon, uh, Music and the Alexa app, and iHeartRadio. Make sure you follow Mike Tanier on Blue Sky. You can follow me, @mattlombardonfl, on Threads.
406
01:03:06.508 --> 01:03:19.128
Uh, Mike, ton of fun. Look forward to next week. Look forward to, uh, another thrilling NFL weekend ahead. Philadelphia Eagles, Saturday morning, 9:30. Be prepared to throw up your breakfast