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Hi, I'm Gary Megan, and welcome to my podcast series, The Gary Meegan Show.
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I've never been one to complicate things, and that includes this title.
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If you're tuning in, you probably know me, but for those that don't, you have to know that I absolutely love food and travel and also the opportunity of just talking way too much.
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In this podcast, we're going to look beyond the world of food and talk to people, whether they're celebrities or sports people, politicians or professionals who trigger my curiosity and interests and have something to share.
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It's all about their careers, their passions, their beliefs, and maybe some life lessons.
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So without further ado, let's crack on.
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Actor, radio presenter, voiceover artist, and philanthropist, Samuel Johnson is probably best known for his part in The Secret Life of Us, but also rushed and as Molly Meldrum in the mini-series Molly.
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He also competed and won Dancing with the Stars in 2016.
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Samuel has won an Actor Award for the Best Actor and a Gold Logie for the most popular personality in television.
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He grew up with his two sisters, Connie and Hildi, in Delta, Victoria and at the age of 14 performed in his first school play and got a break into acting seemingly by chance.
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A career, he says, not designed by him.
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I love that.
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Although very successful and very popular, his life has been punctuated with grief and sadness.
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A loss of his sister Connie to breast cancer in 2017 was life-changing.
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A pivotal moment that has seen him become an unstoppable force, an advocate and fundraiser for the charity that he started with building Love Your Sisters.
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The mission to remind every Australian woman about the need to be breast aware.
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Sam and I had all sorts of technical issues during this interview.
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The tyranny of distance, geography, network coverage.
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That's our excuse anyway.
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It's a shorter interview than I'd hoped, but well worth a listen.
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And a gentle reminder to support Sam's charity if you're able.
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Sam is a wonderful soul.
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His manner, his expressions are disarming, and the warm and sense of humour that he has is contagious.
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And hopefully we'll get a chance to have a chat again soon.
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So here's my interview with Samuel Johnson.
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Alright, so we had a little chat about just before we we jumped on, we had a little chat about technology, and when was the last time you you saw a real human being over the counter?
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Is that something that's on your mind at the moment?
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Yeah, totally.
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You know, I've been coveted like you have and like everyone has.
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And also I made a living out of the public speaking circuit.
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So because I'm a volunteer full-time, I need to make my money on the public speaking circuit.
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And when COVID hit, all of my gigs just went away.
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And so, like a lot of people, everything went away very quickly.
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And also my charity was hit hard.
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A lot of the charities out there experienced a great deal of difficulty because they lost their FaceTime.
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And really, once you lose that, the charities have nothing.
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Luckily, we're strong online, so we were able to survive.
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But times have been tricky for everyone, you know.
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And I include myself in that group.
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Yeah, it's something I've never thought about is that, you know, that charitable kind of feeling and that connection with other people.
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All of a sudden, I've I've never thought about the fact that we were probably so caught up in our own problems and our own kind of inability to deal with being told what to do.
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The last thing on our mind was thinking about others and being charitable and all the rest of it.
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And the first thing that we do when a pandemic hits is lose a weight, and the first thing we do when we lose a weight is disconnect our connection, our regular connection with charities.
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So a lot of the charities lost their FaceTime, but they also lost their regular givers.
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Now, I'm very lucky.
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I just asked for$10 a month, so that's$2.50 a week.
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So I lost very few people in that time.
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Yeah.
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But other charities that have a bigger ask lost a great deal of support.
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So like if you think of other charities, other charities have got like a key event once a year and they survive off that.
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So they'll have a big event, some kind of fundraising, gala, you know, they can no longer have that.
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They've lost their main revenue stream.
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So basically, charities everywhere are suffered.
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And mine's done well compared to others because we're pretty strong online.
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Yeah, because we've next well, you know, maybe that idea of keeping people engaged, which is obviously something that you thought about at the beginning, you know, and a charity for a lifetime and beyond, that engagement online's been important.
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How did you do that through lockdown?
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Fine.
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I think we were the first charity to raise a million dollars on social media.
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We've got uh rounded up to a million, we've got about 900,000 online.
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If you call it an online community, I'll get really bothered.
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Like it's they're real people.
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And I'd go and see as many as I can of them, but many of them I just have the relationship online with.
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And I try to get to all the towns and to all the people, but it doesn't happen.
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So, I mean, for us it's been a really valuable tool.
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And we've not boosted anything or paid for anything, we're entirely organic.
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We've not spent anything on that at all, yet we've managed to raise a significant amount of funds through that.
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So we definitely we kind of rode that wave when it hit.
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When social media hit, we happened to start our charity and we happened to do well.
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And part of the reason that we did okay was the fact that I wasn't really selling a cause or a science.
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I'm a narrative-based marketer, that's how I see myself.
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I've got to employ story here, there, and everywhere to try and get people engaged because the simple truth is we're not gonna listen long to the science.
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And even though we're pro-science, we're very narrative-based.
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So most charities die after seven to nine years, and most of them die because they do the same thing.
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They find what works, and then they stick with that as you would, and then we get sick of it.
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Um, so my challenge is not just to grow, but to last.
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You know, Fred Hollows, he died years ago.
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He's still saving the side of many people.
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I think he saved the side of six million people.
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I mean, he's the example that we've got in this country of someone who can make what they do last.
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And so the challenge is firstly to last longer than seven to nine years, because most charities go kaput by then.
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Then the next challenge, now that we're in our tenth year, and we've only gone that way, we haven't gone that way.
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Our second challenge is how do we create something that lasts?
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Because nine months ago I had an accident and nearly died, and I need to set this up so it succeeds regardless of my commitment to it.
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Yeah.
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You know what I what I loved, I mean, and you said something a minute or two back that I loved.
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I mean, number one, I I have to ask you about your you know, your resistance or your idea that you with social media that you want to connect personally, but I'll come back to that.
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But it was more about I remember reading something about when you were planning for people that don't know, we're talking about Love Your Sister, which is your charity in in the name of your sister Connie, and when you were planning a unicycle ride around Australia, you wanted to connect with everybody.
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It seemed to be, and this I think is your appeal and why people love you, is that you wanted to be on the ground.
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You wanted to shake people's hands and talk to them about their experiences.
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Is this something that you feel deeply driven by?
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I do now, but I was told it initially.
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Like, you know, like I my sister said you've got to do this face to face.
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I didn't know.
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I had no idea.
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She said the only way that we can communicate this message is face to face.
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The only way you can get women to check their boobs is if you go and ask them face to face.
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And so we had a lot of arguments because I didn't want to be away.
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She was sick, she had two kids, she was dying.
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I wanted to be present for my family, and she wanted me to be off on a unicycle reminding people to check their boobs.
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And that to me was incongruent.
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I wanted to be at home, I wanted to fight this thing privately.
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I definitely didn't want to take it public, and I definitely didn't understand the importance of face-to-face.
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When my sister kind of pushed me off the plank and kind of sent me on my way, because she was right.
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I mean, I couldn't be there in hospital with her the whole time.
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I'm not one of those cold faces anyway.
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I'm kind of icky about hospitals.
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And one shot.
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She probably knew you'd drive her mad as well.
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Hanging around, you know what I mean?
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Yeah, exactly.
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She was just trying to get a bit of space.
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But one thing I've realized or learnt is that really face-to-face is invaluable for charities for one reason.
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The only way, and this is why we see chuggers on the street, charity muggers, those people that tend to ask young people, because old people are fairly wise to their hygiene.
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But part of the distrust is formed by these chuggers.
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But everyone in charity kind of works on the proviso that we need face to face to get any traction.
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So the number one reason we love face to face is I can get the holy grail of regular giving if I do face-to-face.
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So if I go to Broken Hill and I meet Abby and I talk to her about socks and I go and thank all the people that have helped her, and if when I have an event at that town, I'm going and I'm begging people to come on board because I've got a very particular mission, and then then I'm likely to get.
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So if there's a room full of 200 people, the expectation would be, and this is this is just numbers and this is just private, but like I would hope to, and hope is the operative word, I would hope that a hundred of those 200 would come with me on a regular basis.
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And so there's a reason it's the holy grail, and that's because scientists work medium to long term and funding works short term.
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So a scientist might have an idea about how to beat cancer, but it might take a good dang while and science does.
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And they're lucky if they get two years' funding, and then if they get two years and they want to do another four, they might not get that funding, and the first two years is wasted because their whole project has been abandoned.
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So part of the reason why I ask people to give regularly is so we can give surety to these scientists who are doing their best to protect our families from this skirt.
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So I see myself as a narrative-based marketer, but I also see myself as some kind of intermediary between people in the middle of nowhere that might be going through this horror and the scientists that are all gathered in buildings in the cities doing valuable work trying to protect it.
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So I kind of see myself as as kind of well, I try and fund the scientists and I try and care for the patients, but I see myself as some kind of intermediary.
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And I think too, you know, just talking personally, and I've been involved in various charities over the years and and still are, and even I think most recently with the bushfires, you're often sitting at home thinking, now where do I go?
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You know, where do I donate?
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You know, what's the cause that I feel strongly about?
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You know, where's the surety that my money's going to go somewhere that I trust?
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I mean, that's a lot of it.
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I mean, most of us want to give.
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And maybe sometimes there's a disconnect between those big balls and functions where everybody gets dressed the nines and they're throwing 30,000, 50,000 at the you know, at the charity, and it all seems big and brash.
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And I'm sure a lot of people at home are sitting there going, but do my dollars really count?
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And are they going somewhere?
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Ah, man, you've opened up a count, won't you?
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How do I okay?
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I'm gonna try and answer this succinctly.
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Wow.
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You just you've just hit a button.
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I don't like my money being misspent if I give it out of the bottom of my heart.
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I want that money to go where I've designed it.
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Read the annual reports.
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Every charity has to release an annual report to any member of the public upon request, and you'll find out something stunning.
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So the acceptable limit, quote, is 18 to 22 cents in the dollar.
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That's the acceptable limit.
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That's not a law, that's a guideline.
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So if you give a dollar to a charity, they'll spend about 20 cents of that on their own admin, and that's fine.
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You've got to spend money to make money.
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But that's not common.
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So commonly, if you read the annual report, you'll see that they took 30 million and spent 15 million on themselves.
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Quite commonly, they'll spend 50 cents of your dollar.
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Quite commonly, they're legally allowed to spend up to 96% of your dollar.
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Right?
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So you've got to be very careful about who you give to.
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Now, I am very proud in this space to donate 100% of what we receive to cancer only.
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No researching, no skimming, no admin, no bullshit.
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It absolutely goes where we want it to go.
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And the reason that it does that is because we have collective giving power.
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When we give that money to the research agencies, we get a right to audit, we get the full reporting, and we get a guarantee in writing from the agency that that money will be spent in its entirety on research only.
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So if you go and give your hundred dollars directly to a research agency, they can spend as much as they like on admin.
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So if you give it to us to give to them, I can protect the money.
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Also, those big whiz-bang things, and I'm trust me, I'm finishing.
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Those whizbang things are.
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No, you keep you keep going.
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We're all sitting here getting, yeah, you're right, Samuel.
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You tell us.
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I get so you know, it's you've really touched a saw point.
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But those fundraisers that we've all seen, now, if I spend six thousand dollars on a guitar that's signed by Powderfinger, that's great.
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I can't claim that as charity because I got a guitar back for it.
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It's not a charitable donation.
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I got something back for it.
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Okay?
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I can't.
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Now, what we don't know is that many of these auction items are part of companies that then sell their goods to a charity and a charity gets a commission.
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So if the item sells for$10,000, the charity might get through.
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So the charity flipping the second all the way.
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So be careful.
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It's good advice.
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So a poignant time or a pointed time, I reckon, where we remind people that if they want to be part of your community, because we can do this, this is my podcast, where do they go and how do they become part of your your community and putting the money where it should go?
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Mostly they can just like us on social.
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They can go to Love Your Sister on social media and like us.
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If they like us, then they can commit to us.
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Come and get to know us if you don't.
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And obviously, lovyoursister.org is the website, but I'm definitely not asking for anything more than your casual attention that you can throw away at any time.
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But over a long period of time.
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It's a casual attention over a lifetime.
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That's what you obviously would love to hear.
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If I do my job correctly, then people will stay on our social.
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And if they stay on our social, and if I do my job correctly, they'll eventually buy a t-shirt, and it'll all go to the right place.
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But but I should I should make it clear that anyone that does buy merch doesn't just commit to the cause.
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We give what we can after costs to science if you buy something, but it's not the same as a donation, which is 100% straight to the science.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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But then an important part of just keeping the message out there and staying current.
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Yeah.
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And you know how I said be careful?
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Can I add a bracket to that?
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Charities Be careful of charities that say 100% of proceeds are 100% of profits.
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It's 100% of whatever they want it to be after they've paid all their costs.
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Be careful of proceeds, be careful of profits.
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100% of what we receive is passed on to science, and we don't mention the word profits or proceeds.
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Be very careful about that because people can look good saying 100%, and then they chuck profits or proceeds down the bottom, and it's not 100% of anything.
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Anyway.
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Can I ask then, have you tackled this on a broader level?
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I mean, I certainly know that you know, reading and listening to some of your podcasts, you know, Connie was, you know, actively kind of walking the halls of parliament trying to lobby, you know, for further action and further commitment and further monies.
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Have you taken steps to trying to tackle this?
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Because obviously you're very passionate about this little business.
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I call it the$66 million fuck you.
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Like she rang me and she said to me, like, a couple of years before she died, and she rang me and said, Can I work on the MRF?
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And and I said, Don't be ridiculous.
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We're not political.
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You absolutely can do whatever you like privately, but we're not going to support it.
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And the last thing I want to do is divide our base in half and go all political.
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You set us up to raise money for research, not to get all political.
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Go like, no, absolutely not.
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We're not going to go near it with a barge pole.
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And I thought in my head that the legislation would never pass, and she just went off and worked on it and didn't tell me about it because I reacted so poorly to her suggestion.
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And then two days after she died, I opened up the paper to read her obituary, and I found out that she'd just been doing all these things, and I had no idea.
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I was so busy going town to town trying to raise my 10 million that I really had no idea what she was doing.
00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:17.359
And the week that she died, they released the first interest payment of$66 million from this new medical research future fund.
00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:25.440
And they suggested that that payment be made in my sister's name because she'd been really instrumental in seeing the legislation passed.
00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:28.000
I didn't even know the legislation had passed.
00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:30.799
I didn't even know my sister had played a keyed role.
00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:35.839
And I certainly received a like a slap over the jaws a couple of days after she died.
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:40.960
So, in answer to your question, I'm trying to respond perfectly to that.
00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:50.559
Obviously, she saw the bigger picture where I was stuck in the lane of trying to get to 10 million and she wanted to cure it yesterday.
00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:51.599
That was the difference.
00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:55.119
So that's what I have to do now that she's gone.
00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:57.599
I have to make sure that love your sister's like that.
00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:04.160
I'm not going to turn up to the government until I've got a million a month on personalized medicine.
00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:10.880
Once I can present myself as part of the solution, I'm going to present myself to Canberra.
00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:14.000
Until then, I'm not going to say a word.
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:25.119
I'm not going to say a peep because so many people queue up to Canberra with their hands out with worthy causes, and we can't afford them all.
00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:32.400
I'd just be another person queuing around the block with my hand out if I went and I didn't present myself as part of the solution.
00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:40.640
So once I can get a million a month, I can prove to the government that personalized medicine is something that the country is aching for.
00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:49.839
Once I can prove that in numerical terms, present myself as part of the solution, I think I can accelerate our progress towards personalized medicine for all.
00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:53.039
Until I get to that level, I'm not going to make that move.
00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:54.480
I may not get to that level.
00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:58.079
I've currently got about 10,000 or 400,000 people I need.
00:19:58.240 --> 00:19:59.279
I'm going on the road.
00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:01.759
I'm trying desperately to get those hundred thousand.
00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:04.720
I suspect I won't get there.
00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:08.559
And in about two years' time, I'll know whether I'll get there.
00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:15.599
And in about two years' time, I should know whether I'm dreaming and I need to just stay in my lane or whether whether I can snap it up.
00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:17.759
What are the roadblocks, do you think?
00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:19.359
Oh, there are many.
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:20.799
There are many.
00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:22.240
Wow.
00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:24.559
That's that's too big a question.
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:25.359
But give it a go.
00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:27.759
That's another another good question.
00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:31.680
Part of our problem is that we operate in silos.
00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:39.039
We tend to work for individual groups, and because we don't share that information, we're not as strong as we could be.
00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:45.839
So I kind of, you know, I want this new genetic database to be available to all and to be centralized.
00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:55.200
I want, you know, in this country, as soon as we're diagnosed, a tissue sample should be taken and we should and it should be sent away and it should all be kept in the one place.
00:20:55.440 --> 00:21:04.000
Every different agency's got different information on cancers, and they don't share the way that we think we share because they're all tied to their employers.
00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:09.279
So they don't have to, you know, as soon as they have an idea, they're not going to share it with a competitor.
00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:17.279
So part of the problem is that we don't work together, even though we have things like the Melbourne Comprehensive Cancer Centre, it's a$500 million joke.
00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:19.440
Nobody sits there and shares shit.
00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:26.079
It's, you know, like if you speak to people behind the scenes, you know, they'll laugh and they'll scoff.
00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:30.480
I mean, the whole we love to buy buildings when it comes to cancer, you know.
00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:32.319
We love the infrastructure.
00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:42.799
So we're known to spend like half a billion dollars a year on research, but 450 million as that is going on in new buildings that aren't shared the way we want them.
00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:46.079
So part of it is that we don't fight the issue together.
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:48.960
But I mean, having said that, we do as well.
00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:52.960
There are many agencies that coordinate to do work as well.
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:54.880
So that's part of the problem.
00:21:56.400 --> 00:22:02.160
And just rewinding, can I rewind, just hold that thought a second, because I just want to rewind a second, just to dig in a little bit.
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:18.400
Because when you say personalized treatment or, you know, personalize, you know, what you're talking about there is that tissue sample, for example, rather than traveling along a line of you know, trial and error, is a very specific way of personalizing treatment to cancer sufferers.
00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:19.119
Is that correct?
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:21.599
And it's a huge way of saving money, Gary.
00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:25.440
Like my sister was we call them false lines of treatment.
00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:35.119
And it takes us about three months to work out whether a medicine is working on a tumour before it has any demonstrable effect on the tumour, before we can say, all right, that medicine's working, we'll keep applying that one.
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:37.519
So we have this tactic with every cancer patient.
00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:40.559
We put them on the drug most likely to succeed.
00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:48.000
The option, and my sister went through four lines of medication, nearly a year, of drugs she didn't need that cost how much?
00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:49.519
That cost how much?
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:52.880
And by the time we found the right drug it was too late and she died.
00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:58.799
If we put her on the right drug first time, using this$5,000 test, how much money would we save?
00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:02.799
But the medical system is a cumbersome and complicated beast, correct?
00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:14.640
I mean, even in my my father passed away last year of lung cancer, and once he was in the system and had his oncologist, it just seemed he was on a particular path and nothing was going to change that.
00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:18.880
And the advice is, and I'm not criticizing it because I don't understand it thoroughly.
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:22.240
I mean, I'm an expert in cake and mashed potato, Samuel, let's be honest.
00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:30.880
But you know, when it comes to the medical system, it's a personal experience, and I I felt that once he was on that that road, nothing was really going to take him in another direction.
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:34.000
And the advice always seemed duplicitous.
00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:41.519
So even now, my mum blames herself for the fact that that last round of chemo, that was the thing that, you know, that finished him off.
00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:43.119
You know, were they the right drugs?
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:44.960
Was he getting the right treatment?
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:54.880
And I remember this poor old fellow was, you know, this is my old man, was sitting in the pharmacy waiting for five hours to pick up his drugs, you know, like just stuff like this.
00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:56.559
You know, this is back in the UK.
00:23:56.720 --> 00:24:00.640
And you're just, yeah, you're on the treadmill, and it's a difficult one.
00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:04.160
Well, that was my interview with Samuel Johnson.
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:08.880
And as I said at the beginning of the podcast, we had all sorts of technical issues during this interview.
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:10.880
That's the problem of doing these down the line.
00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:14.319
The tyranny of distance, geography, and as I say, network coverage.
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:17.359
No excuse, but you'll have to forgive us just this time.
00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:23.279
I know it was a shorter interview than normal, but I thought it was just too good to let go and had to share it with you.
00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:26.319
And a gentle reminder to support Love Your Sister.
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:29.119
It's a simple search, loveyoursister.org.
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:33.200
And if you're able to donate, or a better still, get involved if you can.
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:34.960
And isn't he a wonderful soul?
00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:43.759
I think you'll agree, disarming, warm, and a wonderful sense of humour and a purpose in life that many of us with the commitment that he has admire so much.
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:45.920
Let's hope we can do this again soon.
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:48.559
So thanks for listening to the Gary Meegan Show.
00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:50.400
I hope you enjoyed that chat.
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:53.920
Don't forget to let me know who you'd love me to talk to.
00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:55.119
I'll call anybody.
00:24:55.279 --> 00:25:00.319
Make sure you subscribe to my podcast so you can keep updated with new episodes as they launch.
00:00:00.239 --> 00:00:05.200
Hi, I'm Gary Megan, and welcome to my podcast series, The Gary Meegan Show.
00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:08.720
I've never been one to complicate things, and that includes this title.
00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:18.559
If you're tuning in, you probably know me, but for those that don't, you have to know that I absolutely love food and travel and also the opportunity of just talking way too much.
00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:30.960
In this podcast, we're going to look beyond the world of food and talk to people, whether they're celebrities or sports people, politicians or professionals who trigger my curiosity and interests and have something to share.
00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:35.359
It's all about their careers, their passions, their beliefs, and maybe some life lessons.
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So without further ado, let's crack on.
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Actor, radio presenter, voiceover artist, and philanthropist, Samuel Johnson is probably best known for his part in The Secret Life of Us, but also rushed and as Molly Meldrum in the mini-series Molly.
00:00:54.719 --> 00:00:58.320
He also competed and won Dancing with the Stars in 2016.
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Samuel has won an Actor Award for the Best Actor and a Gold Logie for the most popular personality in television.
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He grew up with his two sisters, Connie and Hildi, in Delta, Victoria and at the age of 14 performed in his first school play and got a break into acting seemingly by chance.
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A career, he says, not designed by him.
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I love that.
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Although very successful and very popular, his life has been punctuated with grief and sadness.
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A loss of his sister Connie to breast cancer in 2017 was life-changing.
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A pivotal moment that has seen him become an unstoppable force, an advocate and fundraiser for the charity that he started with building Love Your Sisters.
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The mission to remind every Australian woman about the need to be breast aware.
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Sam and I had all sorts of technical issues during this interview.
00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:48.959
The tyranny of distance, geography, network coverage.
00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:50.560
That's our excuse anyway.
00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:53.760
It's a shorter interview than I'd hoped, but well worth a listen.
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And a gentle reminder to support Sam's charity if you're able.
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Sam is a wonderful soul.
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His manner, his expressions are disarming, and the warm and sense of humour that he has is contagious.
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And hopefully we'll get a chance to have a chat again soon.
00:02:08.479 --> 00:02:11.120
So here's my interview with Samuel Johnson.
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Alright, so we had a little chat about just before we we jumped on, we had a little chat about technology, and when was the last time you you saw a real human being over the counter?
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Is that something that's on your mind at the moment?
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Yeah, totally.
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You know, I've been coveted like you have and like everyone has.
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And also I made a living out of the public speaking circuit.
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So because I'm a volunteer full-time, I need to make my money on the public speaking circuit.
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And when COVID hit, all of my gigs just went away.
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And so, like a lot of people, everything went away very quickly.
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And also my charity was hit hard.
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A lot of the charities out there experienced a great deal of difficulty because they lost their FaceTime.
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And really, once you lose that, the charities have nothing.
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Luckily, we're strong online, so we were able to survive.
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But times have been tricky for everyone, you know.
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And I include myself in that group.
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Yeah, it's something I've never thought about is that, you know, that charitable kind of feeling and that connection with other people.
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All of a sudden, I've I've never thought about the fact that we were probably so caught up in our own problems and our own kind of inability to deal with being told what to do.
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The last thing on our mind was thinking about others and being charitable and all the rest of it.
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And the first thing that we do when a pandemic hits is lose a weight, and the first thing we do when we lose a weight is disconnect our connection, our regular connection with charities.
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So a lot of the charities lost their FaceTime, but they also lost their regular givers.
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Now, I'm very lucky.
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I just asked for$10 a month, so that's$2.50 a week.
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So I lost very few people in that time.
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Yeah.
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But other charities that have a bigger ask lost a great deal of support.
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So like if you think of other charities, other charities have got like a key event once a year and they survive off that.
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So they'll have a big event, some kind of fundraising, gala, you know, they can no longer have that.
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They've lost their main revenue stream.
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So basically, charities everywhere are suffered.
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And mine's done well compared to others because we're pretty strong online.
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Yeah, because we've next well, you know, maybe that idea of keeping people engaged, which is obviously something that you thought about at the beginning, you know, and a charity for a lifetime and beyond, that engagement online's been important.
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How did you do that through lockdown?
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Fine.
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I think we were the first charity to raise a million dollars on social media.
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We've got uh rounded up to a million, we've got about 900,000 online.
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If you call it an online community, I'll get really bothered.
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Like it's they're real people.
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And I'd go and see as many as I can of them, but many of them I just have the relationship online with.
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And I try to get to all the towns and to all the people, but it doesn't happen.
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So, I mean, for us it's been a really valuable tool.
00:05:07.519 --> 00:05:11.519
And we've not boosted anything or paid for anything, we're entirely organic.
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We've not spent anything on that at all, yet we've managed to raise a significant amount of funds through that.
00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:24.560
So we definitely we kind of rode that wave when it hit.
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When social media hit, we happened to start our charity and we happened to do well.
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And part of the reason that we did okay was the fact that I wasn't really selling a cause or a science.
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I'm a narrative-based marketer, that's how I see myself.
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I've got to employ story here, there, and everywhere to try and get people engaged because the simple truth is we're not gonna listen long to the science.
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And even though we're pro-science, we're very narrative-based.
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So most charities die after seven to nine years, and most of them die because they do the same thing.
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They find what works, and then they stick with that as you would, and then we get sick of it.
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Um, so my challenge is not just to grow, but to last.
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You know, Fred Hollows, he died years ago.
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He's still saving the side of many people.
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I think he saved the side of six million people.
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I mean, he's the example that we've got in this country of someone who can make what they do last.
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And so the challenge is firstly to last longer than seven to nine years, because most charities go kaput by then.
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Then the next challenge, now that we're in our tenth year, and we've only gone that way, we haven't gone that way.
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Our second challenge is how do we create something that lasts?
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Because nine months ago I had an accident and nearly died, and I need to set this up so it succeeds regardless of my commitment to it.
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Yeah.
00:06:56.720 --> 00:07:00.319
You know what I what I loved, I mean, and you said something a minute or two back that I loved.
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I mean, number one, I I have to ask you about your you know, your resistance or your idea that you with social media that you want to connect personally, but I'll come back to that.
00:07:08.720 --> 00:07:24.639
But it was more about I remember reading something about when you were planning for people that don't know, we're talking about Love Your Sister, which is your charity in in the name of your sister Connie, and when you were planning a unicycle ride around Australia, you wanted to connect with everybody.
00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:29.920
It seemed to be, and this I think is your appeal and why people love you, is that you wanted to be on the ground.
00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:33.519
You wanted to shake people's hands and talk to them about their experiences.
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Is this something that you feel deeply driven by?
00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:39.600
I do now, but I was told it initially.
00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:45.120
Like, you know, like I my sister said you've got to do this face to face.
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I didn't know.
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I had no idea.
00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:51.519
She said the only way that we can communicate this message is face to face.
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The only way you can get women to check their boobs is if you go and ask them face to face.
00:07:56.959 --> 00:08:00.879
And so we had a lot of arguments because I didn't want to be away.
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She was sick, she had two kids, she was dying.
00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:12.240
I wanted to be present for my family, and she wanted me to be off on a unicycle reminding people to check their boobs.
00:08:12.399 --> 00:08:14.879
And that to me was incongruent.
00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:19.759
I wanted to be at home, I wanted to fight this thing privately.
00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:25.680
I definitely didn't want to take it public, and I definitely didn't understand the importance of face-to-face.
00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:32.080
When my sister kind of pushed me off the plank and kind of sent me on my way, because she was right.
00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:35.200
I mean, I couldn't be there in hospital with her the whole time.
00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:37.519
I'm not one of those cold faces anyway.
00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:40.080
I'm kind of icky about hospitals.
00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:41.440
And one shot.
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She probably knew you'd drive her mad as well.
00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:45.600
Hanging around, you know what I mean?
00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:46.960
Yeah, exactly.
00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:49.519
She was just trying to get a bit of space.
00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:59.120
But one thing I've realized or learnt is that really face-to-face is invaluable for charities for one reason.
00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:08.799
The only way, and this is why we see chuggers on the street, charity muggers, those people that tend to ask young people, because old people are fairly wise to their hygiene.
00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:11.919
But part of the distrust is formed by these chuggers.
00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:19.200
But everyone in charity kind of works on the proviso that we need face to face to get any traction.
00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:27.200
So the number one reason we love face to face is I can get the holy grail of regular giving if I do face-to-face.
00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:45.840
So if I go to Broken Hill and I meet Abby and I talk to her about socks and I go and thank all the people that have helped her, and if when I have an event at that town, I'm going and I'm begging people to come on board because I've got a very particular mission, and then then I'm likely to get.
00:09:46.240 --> 00:10:04.879
So if there's a room full of 200 people, the expectation would be, and this is this is just numbers and this is just private, but like I would hope to, and hope is the operative word, I would hope that a hundred of those 200 would come with me on a regular basis.
00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:13.200
And so there's a reason it's the holy grail, and that's because scientists work medium to long term and funding works short term.
00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:20.480
So a scientist might have an idea about how to beat cancer, but it might take a good dang while and science does.
00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:32.720
And they're lucky if they get two years' funding, and then if they get two years and they want to do another four, they might not get that funding, and the first two years is wasted because their whole project has been abandoned.
00:10:32.879 --> 00:10:41.440
So part of the reason why I ask people to give regularly is so we can give surety to these scientists who are doing their best to protect our families from this skirt.
00:10:42.000 --> 00:11:00.960
So I see myself as a narrative-based marketer, but I also see myself as some kind of intermediary between people in the middle of nowhere that might be going through this horror and the scientists that are all gathered in buildings in the cities doing valuable work trying to protect it.
00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:11.759
So I kind of see myself as as kind of well, I try and fund the scientists and I try and care for the patients, but I see myself as some kind of intermediary.
00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:23.279
And I think too, you know, just talking personally, and I've been involved in various charities over the years and and still are, and even I think most recently with the bushfires, you're often sitting at home thinking, now where do I go?
00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:24.799
You know, where do I donate?
00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:27.039
You know, what's the cause that I feel strongly about?
00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:32.000
You know, where's the surety that my money's going to go somewhere that I trust?
00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:33.279
I mean, that's a lot of it.
00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:34.639
I mean, most of us want to give.
00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:45.840
And maybe sometimes there's a disconnect between those big balls and functions where everybody gets dressed the nines and they're throwing 30,000, 50,000 at the you know, at the charity, and it all seems big and brash.
00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:49.440
And I'm sure a lot of people at home are sitting there going, but do my dollars really count?
00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:50.720
And are they going somewhere?
00:11:51.039 --> 00:11:53.679
Ah, man, you've opened up a count, won't you?
00:11:55.279 --> 00:11:56.320
How do I okay?
00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:58.639
I'm gonna try and answer this succinctly.
00:11:59.360 --> 00:11:59.919
Wow.
00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:01.919
You just you've just hit a button.
00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:08.799
I don't like my money being misspent if I give it out of the bottom of my heart.
00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:11.120
I want that money to go where I've designed it.
00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:12.960
Read the annual reports.
00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:22.639
Every charity has to release an annual report to any member of the public upon request, and you'll find out something stunning.
00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:29.200
So the acceptable limit, quote, is 18 to 22 cents in the dollar.
00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:31.120
That's the acceptable limit.
00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:33.679
That's not a law, that's a guideline.
00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:40.000
So if you give a dollar to a charity, they'll spend about 20 cents of that on their own admin, and that's fine.
00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:42.000
You've got to spend money to make money.
00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:43.759
But that's not common.
00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:49.919
So commonly, if you read the annual report, you'll see that they took 30 million and spent 15 million on themselves.
00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:53.440
Quite commonly, they'll spend 50 cents of your dollar.
00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:59.200
Quite commonly, they're legally allowed to spend up to 96% of your dollar.
00:12:59.519 --> 00:12:59.840
Right?
00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:03.440
So you've got to be very careful about who you give to.
00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:10.320
Now, I am very proud in this space to donate 100% of what we receive to cancer only.
00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:14.000
No researching, no skimming, no admin, no bullshit.
00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:16.480
It absolutely goes where we want it to go.
00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:20.240
And the reason that it does that is because we have collective giving power.
00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:33.759
When we give that money to the research agencies, we get a right to audit, we get the full reporting, and we get a guarantee in writing from the agency that that money will be spent in its entirety on research only.
00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:45.840
So if you go and give your hundred dollars directly to a research agency, they can spend as much as they like on admin.
00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:50.480
So if you give it to us to give to them, I can protect the money.
00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:54.480
Also, those big whiz-bang things, and I'm trust me, I'm finishing.
00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:55.679
Those whizbang things are.
00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:56.960
No, you keep you keep going.
00:13:57.039 --> 00:13:59.360
We're all sitting here getting, yeah, you're right, Samuel.
00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:00.480
You tell us.
00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:04.559
I get so you know, it's you've really touched a saw point.
00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:13.679
But those fundraisers that we've all seen, now, if I spend six thousand dollars on a guitar that's signed by Powderfinger, that's great.
00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:17.919
I can't claim that as charity because I got a guitar back for it.
00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:20.000
It's not a charitable donation.
00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:22.000
I got something back for it.
00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:22.480
Okay?
00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:23.919
I can't.
00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:37.600
Now, what we don't know is that many of these auction items are part of companies that then sell their goods to a charity and a charity gets a commission.
00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:42.480
So if the item sells for$10,000, the charity might get through.
00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:45.360
So the charity flipping the second all the way.
00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:52.639
So be careful.
00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:53.919
It's good advice.
00:14:54.159 --> 00:15:08.320
So a poignant time or a pointed time, I reckon, where we remind people that if they want to be part of your community, because we can do this, this is my podcast, where do they go and how do they become part of your your community and putting the money where it should go?
00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:10.720
Mostly they can just like us on social.
00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:14.000
They can go to Love Your Sister on social media and like us.
00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:16.159
If they like us, then they can commit to us.
00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:18.000
Come and get to know us if you don't.
00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:26.879
And obviously, lovyoursister.org is the website, but I'm definitely not asking for anything more than your casual attention that you can throw away at any time.
00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:29.039
But over a long period of time.
00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:31.200
It's a casual attention over a lifetime.
00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:32.879
That's what you obviously would love to hear.
00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:37.679
If I do my job correctly, then people will stay on our social.
00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:45.360
And if they stay on our social, and if I do my job correctly, they'll eventually buy a t-shirt, and it'll all go to the right place.
00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:54.480
But but I should I should make it clear that anyone that does buy merch doesn't just commit to the cause.
00:15:54.720 --> 00:16:04.000
We give what we can after costs to science if you buy something, but it's not the same as a donation, which is 100% straight to the science.
00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:05.120
Yeah, absolutely.
00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:08.879
But then an important part of just keeping the message out there and staying current.
00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:09.360
Yeah.
00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:10.879
And you know how I said be careful?
00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:12.399
Can I add a bracket to that?
00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:19.120
Charities Be careful of charities that say 100% of proceeds are 100% of profits.
00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:23.679
It's 100% of whatever they want it to be after they've paid all their costs.
00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:26.879
Be careful of proceeds, be careful of profits.
00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:34.159
100% of what we receive is passed on to science, and we don't mention the word profits or proceeds.
00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:43.919
Be very careful about that because people can look good saying 100%, and then they chuck profits or proceeds down the bottom, and it's not 100% of anything.
00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:44.879
Anyway.
00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:49.200
Can I ask then, have you tackled this on a broader level?
00:16:49.360 --> 00:17:01.759
I mean, I certainly know that you know, reading and listening to some of your podcasts, you know, Connie was, you know, actively kind of walking the halls of parliament trying to lobby, you know, for further action and further commitment and further monies.
00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:04.559
Have you taken steps to trying to tackle this?
00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:07.759
Because obviously you're very passionate about this little business.
00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:11.359
I call it the$66 million fuck you.
00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:20.880
Like she rang me and she said to me, like, a couple of years before she died, and she rang me and said, Can I work on the MRF?
00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:23.519
And and I said, Don't be ridiculous.
00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:24.480
We're not political.
00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:28.559
You absolutely can do whatever you like privately, but we're not going to support it.
00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:33.039
And the last thing I want to do is divide our base in half and go all political.
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:37.200
You set us up to raise money for research, not to get all political.
00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:39.359
Go like, no, absolutely not.
00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:41.680
We're not going to go near it with a barge pole.
00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:50.880
And I thought in my head that the legislation would never pass, and she just went off and worked on it and didn't tell me about it because I reacted so poorly to her suggestion.
00:17:51.039 --> 00:18:03.039
And then two days after she died, I opened up the paper to read her obituary, and I found out that she'd just been doing all these things, and I had no idea.
00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:09.599
I was so busy going town to town trying to raise my 10 million that I really had no idea what she was doing.
00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:17.359
And the week that she died, they released the first interest payment of$66 million from this new medical research future fund.
00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:25.440
And they suggested that that payment be made in my sister's name because she'd been really instrumental in seeing the legislation passed.
00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:28.000
I didn't even know the legislation had passed.
00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:30.799
I didn't even know my sister had played a keyed role.
00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:35.839
And I certainly received a like a slap over the jaws a couple of days after she died.
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:40.960
So, in answer to your question, I'm trying to respond perfectly to that.
00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:50.559
Obviously, she saw the bigger picture where I was stuck in the lane of trying to get to 10 million and she wanted to cure it yesterday.
00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:51.599
That was the difference.
00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:55.119
So that's what I have to do now that she's gone.
00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:57.599
I have to make sure that love your sister's like that.
00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:04.160
I'm not going to turn up to the government until I've got a million a month on personalized medicine.
00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:10.880
Once I can present myself as part of the solution, I'm going to present myself to Canberra.
00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:14.000
Until then, I'm not going to say a word.
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:25.119
I'm not going to say a peep because so many people queue up to Canberra with their hands out with worthy causes, and we can't afford them all.
00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:32.400
I'd just be another person queuing around the block with my hand out if I went and I didn't present myself as part of the solution.
00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:40.640
So once I can get a million a month, I can prove to the government that personalized medicine is something that the country is aching for.
00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:49.839
Once I can prove that in numerical terms, present myself as part of the solution, I think I can accelerate our progress towards personalized medicine for all.
00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:53.039
Until I get to that level, I'm not going to make that move.
00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:54.480
I may not get to that level.
00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:58.079
I've currently got about 10,000 or 400,000 people I need.
00:19:58.240 --> 00:19:59.279
I'm going on the road.
00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:01.759
I'm trying desperately to get those hundred thousand.
00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:04.720
I suspect I won't get there.
00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:08.559
And in about two years' time, I'll know whether I'll get there.
00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:15.599
And in about two years' time, I should know whether I'm dreaming and I need to just stay in my lane or whether whether I can snap it up.
00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:17.759
What are the roadblocks, do you think?
00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:19.359
Oh, there are many.
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:20.799
There are many.
00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:22.240
Wow.
00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:24.559
That's that's too big a question.
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:25.359
But give it a go.
00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:27.759
That's another another good question.
00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:31.680
Part of our problem is that we operate in silos.
00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:39.039
We tend to work for individual groups, and because we don't share that information, we're not as strong as we could be.
00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:45.839
So I kind of, you know, I want this new genetic database to be available to all and to be centralized.
00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:55.200
I want, you know, in this country, as soon as we're diagnosed, a tissue sample should be taken and we should and it should be sent away and it should all be kept in the one place.
00:20:55.440 --> 00:21:04.000
Every different agency's got different information on cancers, and they don't share the way that we think we share because they're all tied to their employers.
00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:09.279
So they don't have to, you know, as soon as they have an idea, they're not going to share it with a competitor.
00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:17.279
So part of the problem is that we don't work together, even though we have things like the Melbourne Comprehensive Cancer Centre, it's a$500 million joke.
00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:19.440
Nobody sits there and shares shit.
00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:26.079
It's, you know, like if you speak to people behind the scenes, you know, they'll laugh and they'll scoff.
00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:30.480
I mean, the whole we love to buy buildings when it comes to cancer, you know.
00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:32.319
We love the infrastructure.
00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:42.799
So we're known to spend like half a billion dollars a year on research, but 450 million as that is going on in new buildings that aren't shared the way we want them.
00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:46.079
So part of it is that we don't fight the issue together.
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:48.960
But I mean, having said that, we do as well.
00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:52.960
There are many agencies that coordinate to do work as well.
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:54.880
So that's part of the problem.
00:21:56.400 --> 00:22:02.160
And just rewinding, can I rewind, just hold that thought a second, because I just want to rewind a second, just to dig in a little bit.
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:18.400
Because when you say personalized treatment or, you know, personalize, you know, what you're talking about there is that tissue sample, for example, rather than traveling along a line of you know, trial and error, is a very specific way of personalizing treatment to cancer sufferers.
00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:19.119
Is that correct?
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:21.599
And it's a huge way of saving money, Gary.
00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:25.440
Like my sister was we call them false lines of treatment.
00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:35.119
And it takes us about three months to work out whether a medicine is working on a tumour before it has any demonstrable effect on the tumour, before we can say, all right, that medicine's working, we'll keep applying that one.
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:37.519
So we have this tactic with every cancer patient.
00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:40.559
We put them on the drug most likely to succeed.
00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:48.000
The option, and my sister went through four lines of medication, nearly a year, of drugs she didn't need that cost how much?
00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:49.519
That cost how much?
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:52.880
And by the time we found the right drug it was too late and she died.
00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:58.799
If we put her on the right drug first time, using this$5,000 test, how much money would we save?
00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:02.799
But the medical system is a cumbersome and complicated beast, correct?
00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:14.640
I mean, even in my my father passed away last year of lung cancer, and once he was in the system and had his oncologist, it just seemed he was on a particular path and nothing was going to change that.
00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:18.880
And the advice is, and I'm not criticizing it because I don't understand it thoroughly.
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:22.240
I mean, I'm an expert in cake and mashed potato, Samuel, let's be honest.
00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:30.880
But you know, when it comes to the medical system, it's a personal experience, and I I felt that once he was on that that road, nothing was really going to take him in another direction.
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:34.000
And the advice always seemed duplicitous.
00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:41.519
So even now, my mum blames herself for the fact that that last round of chemo, that was the thing that, you know, that finished him off.
00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:43.119
You know, were they the right drugs?
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:44.960
Was he getting the right treatment?
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:54.880
And I remember this poor old fellow was, you know, this is my old man, was sitting in the pharmacy waiting for five hours to pick up his drugs, you know, like just stuff like this.
00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:56.559
You know, this is back in the UK.
00:23:56.720 --> 00:24:00.640
And you're just, yeah, you're on the treadmill, and it's a difficult one.
00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:04.160
Well, that was my interview with Samuel Johnson.
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:08.880
And as I said at the beginning of the podcast, we had all sorts of technical issues during this interview.
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:10.880
That's the problem of doing these down the line.
00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:14.319
The tyranny of distance, geography, and as I say, network coverage.
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:17.359
No excuse, but you'll have to forgive us just this time.
00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:23.279
I know it was a shorter interview than normal, but I thought it was just too good to let go and had to share it with you.
00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:26.319
And a gentle reminder to support Love Your Sister.
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:29.119
It's a simple search, loveyoursister.org.
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:33.200
And if you're able to donate, or a better still, get involved if you can.
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:34.960
And isn't he a wonderful soul?
00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:43.759
I think you'll agree, disarming, warm, and a wonderful sense of humour and a purpose in life that many of us with the commitment that he has admire so much.
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:45.920
Let's hope we can do this again soon.
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:48.559
So thanks for listening to the Gary Meegan Show.
00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:50.400
I hope you enjoyed that chat.
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:53.920
Don't forget to let me know who you'd love me to talk to.
00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:55.119
I'll call anybody.
00:24:55.279 --> 00:25:00.319
Make sure you subscribe to my podcast so you can keep updated with new episodes as they launch.
