WorldCon: The Future is Here

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Music.
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I'm Theo. And I'm Juliette. And this is Apologies Accepted. We offer an entertaining
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look at some of the big issues in history by examining public apologies of the famous and infamous.
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We're looking at politicians, serial killers, actors, and you.
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Send us a public apology you would like to make, and we'll read it on the air
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and give you a chance to redeem yourself or just get some guilt off your shoulders.
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We're here for you. Once a week, maybe more if you're really, really sorry.
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Music.
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Hey, everybody. Hi, everybody. This is the Popsies Accepted. The podcast.
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And I'm not Theo. And I am not Juliet.
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And we are, sounds like we're not in sync, but we actually are.
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We're both live and here we are. Pause, pause, pause.
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Yeah, exactly. So long pauses, which Bren will fix.
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So let's see. What are we going to talk about today? No, wait.
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First, we have to know what shake and bake.
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I wish I could tell you, but if I did, you would die of envy.
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You'd have to kill us. Well, I'd have to kill you, but then you would die of envy.
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So I will say I'm going to every week. It's like nothing. We're going to go
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out to Palm Springs this coming week.
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James has a friend who is having a vacation in California. I was going on vacation to California.
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And so kind of last minute, it was like, hey, why don't we try and all get together?
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And so we are and very much looking forward to it. We're going to fly.
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And have you ever flown instead of drive?
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There's no airport there. I'd have to fly to Phoenix and then drive an hour
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and a half. Okay. But I mean, you know, then it's an hour and a half versus 12.
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Yeah, no, I have done that. Yes. Oh, does it weird you out?
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It kind of does yeah it's such a short flight and then i'm there.
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It's like you're supposed to fall asleep behind the wheel of a car for a few
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moments and then scare yourself awake and then pull over and why why why am
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i driving why and then you have 12 more hours in front of you like that's how you get to palm springs,
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Not sit on a plane, watch a movie, get off in Palm Springs. It doesn't happen.
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Yeah. So it always weirds me out. It's such a fucking miracle.
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And so, yeah, that's leading me straight to plane crashes now, which, no, thank you.
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I know. I know. It's like everything I can think of is just going to end in a bad place.
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This will be it. And this is our happy show, right? Because we did a sad show last week.
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And so this is our, like, oh, okay, this is a fun show. I don't know that I'd
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call it happy, but it's a little bit lighter.
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It's totally, oh, you just wait. I've got some great material lined up for you.
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Okay, good. For your entertainment. Yeah, but so that's what we're doing this
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coming week, and I've got nothing else. I'm struggling to, like,
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what else can I talk about?
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Anything, really, but I've got nothing. What about you? What's Shaken Bacon?
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I've got less than nothing. I've got minus things happening in my life,
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so I don't know what that would look like in reality.
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It would look like people coming and making me not do things, I guess.
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But I just don't have anything to talk about. So let's talk about our topic. Yay.
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Today, we're heading back into the world of science fiction and artificial intelligence.
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We talked about, in late May, we talked about AI making up some book titles
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and book summaries. And now we're talking about the recent apology issued by
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the organizers of the 2025 Seattle World Science Fiction Convention,
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better known as Worldcon.
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Seattle Worldcon 2025 organizers are under fire after revealing they used ChatGPT
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to help vet over 1,300 panelist applicants.
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The AI tool was given only names and asked to surface red flags,
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such as harassment or misconduct committed by those names. Organizers emphasized
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that all AI results were manually reviewed and no one was rejected solely based on AI output.
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However, the announcement sparked immediate backlash from the science fiction
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and fantasy community, which criticized the practice as unethical,
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opaque, and disrespectful to creators whose work may have been used to train
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AI systems without consent.
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Concerns about bias, hallucination, and data privacy also emerged.
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Key members of the convention, including Hugo Awards administrators and the
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World Science Fiction Society division head, resigned in protest,
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though it was clarified that AI was not used in the Hugo voting process.
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In response to all this, convention chair Kathy Bond issued a public apology.
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Organizers pledged to re-vet all affected panelists without AI,
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involve outsider viewers, and offer refunds to concerned members.
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The incident highlights growing tensions around AI in creative spaces and underscores
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the need for transparency and consent when new technologies are used in community-driven events.
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Critics, including long-time convention participants and fans raised concerns
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about using AI to research real people without context or consent.
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Even more troubling, the initial responses from leadership were dismissive.
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One chair stated that using chat GPT was just a way to help human brains do a lot of work faster.
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That was a controversial comment, but kind of true.
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Although the issues are, of course, exactly what were brought up,
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that hallucination bias and data privacy.
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So 601, half a dozen of the other.
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And go ahead. Oh, I mean, I'm just struck by a bunch of futurists complaining about the use of robots.
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Like, you guys, come on. How ironic.
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This is what you tell us the future is going to be. Here it is.
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I get why everybody's, I get-ish why everybody's upset, but it is kind of ironic, too.
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Sorry, we use robots to do the work. How dare we? Where'd we get that idea from?
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Oh, you guys, you're the ones that write about the robots in the future. Yeah.
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So you said you had some happy stuff for us. I'm done with my little son.
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Oh, God. Tell us about the happy stuff.
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No press. Right. No pressure at all.
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Well, my happy stuff is two previous Hugo Award scandals.
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And so I think we could save that for the end piece and go through the apology. Right.
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Okay. Because who knew, on one hand, who knew that sci-fi nerds had so much drama?
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And then on the other hand, it's like, well, they're sci-fi nerds. Of course.
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My favorite. Absolutely, too.
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I had a boyfriend that was super into comic books, like collected them, the whole thing, right?
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And I didn't get it. And I used to make, I eventually got it over time, right?
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But fine. And my favorite thing of all, just to kind of explain my view of,
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I'm a bit of a sci-fi nerd,
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okay, but to explain sci-fi nerds to people who sort of don't know,
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there's a Simpson episode where the comic book shop owner is standing in the
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store by himself, reading a comic book, and he says out loud,
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Aquaman cannot marry Wonder Woman, he is a man of fish.
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And I just love, love that.
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Because, yeah, why do you care? Why is it so important? This one's slightly
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different. This one's slightly different.
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And I'm sure we'll get into the nuance as we get further into the apology.
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But yeah, let's, I guess let's keep going with the apology.
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We'll talk about the apology. After days of backlash, convention chair Kathy
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Bond issued a formal apology. And it reads as follows.
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First and foremost, as chair of the Seattle Worldcon, I sincerely apologize
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for the use of ChatGPT in our program vetting process.
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Additionally, I regret releasing a statement that did not address the concerns of our community.
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My initial statement on the use of AI tools in program vetting was incomplete,
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flawed, and missed the most crucial points.
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I acknowledge my mistake and am truly sorry for the harm it caused.
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There is much more that needs to be done to address this harm,
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but it will take some time to develop a comprehensive response and fuller apology over the weekend.
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We will release a response by Tuesday of next week that provides a transparent
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explanation of the process that was used, answers more of the questions and
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concerns we have received, and openly outlines our next steps. Thanks, Kathy Bond.
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So we can evaluate this, but I just wanted to note that after that statement,
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the second apology or follow-on apology and clarification was issued.
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In the second apology, she emphasized that AI was used only after panelists
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were selected and solely to gather review material with all results evaluated by humans.
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She did acknowledge that even this limited use was inappropriate given community concerns.
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She also stated that Worldcon leadership would repeat the affected program process
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without AI using new volunteers, undergo an external audit of programming procedures,
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offer membership refunds to those who requested them,
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improve internal communication and leadership oversight, and commit to regular updates.
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Bond also addressed recent resignations, expressed gratitude for outgoing volunteers,
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and affirmed continued commitment to transparency and integrity in organizing the convention.
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The program division head, Sunny Jim Morgan, confirmed in a separate statement
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that AI played a limited background check role only after human decisions,
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vowed that the process would be redone without AI and supported an audit to
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rebuild community confidence.
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So, okay, let's evaluate that apology using our trusty six-point criteria.
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Not generated by AI. Oh, sorry, I jumped onto you there, but we want to point
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out that this criteria we came up with slash found slash I don't know where it came from.
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I know it came from research. I don't remember where it came from.
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Yeah. Yeah. But you did research. I had nothing to do with it.
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You were like, we should probably know, like, what is it that makes a good apology?
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And I was like, oh, my gosh, what a great idea.
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I've got plenty of snark, but just not a lot of logic and reason.
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And so we did not use ChatGPT to generate this list of criteria for evaluating. Yes.
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That's true. We did not. End of these. Criteria number one is expression of regret.
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And Bond said, I sincerely apologize for the use of chat GPT in the vetting
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process. This is clear, straightforward, and uses the magic word apologize.
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So that check, check. Explanation of what went wrong. The apology admitted to
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poor judgment in both using the tool and in how the decision was communicated.
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It also acknowledged that trust had been broken. So check.
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Acknowledgement of responsibility. Bond didn't point fingers at volunteers or
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blame the technology. she took ownership, which is rare and refreshing. Check.
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Declaration of Repentance. She committed to discontinuing AI use for vetting
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and outline steps to make future processes more transparent.
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And then there was the sincere apology as well, so I'd give that a check.
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An offer of repair. The apology promised a revised vetting system,
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a public report, and greater community oversight, so absolutely yes.
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And request for forgiveness. This is where the apology falls a little short.
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There's no explicit request for forgiveness, just the hope that actions will rebuild trust.
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Some may see that as humble. Others might see it as evasive.
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So what do I give this apology? I'm going to give it. Let's see.
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Do we evaluate all the apologies together? I think we should.
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Sure. Okay. So I consider them together. So I would give it a nine out of 10.
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Wow. Do I accept to use this?
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You are really.
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Wow.
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No. Oh, no, no, no. I'm not. So it's not that I don't think it just feels like a lot of nothing to me.
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Right. Really? Well, it kind of does the whole. Sorry, not her apology.
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Her apology, I would give a seven to.
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Right. Oh, you mean the problem. The problem feels like a lot of nothing to me. Right.
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I get why people are upset, but I don't think it warrant.
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And sure, I apologize for that. But I just don't think it was that big a fucking
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issue, everybody. They fed a list of names into AI and just, well...
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So I give it a seven. We can finish this and then get into why I don't think it's a big deal.
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Did you see the comments on the apology? I did.
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I did. Did you see how they were calling ChatGBT a fascist plagiarism machine?
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So I saw the plagiarism stuff. The fascist piece slipped through me,
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right? Slipped through me? What expression is that?
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I missed that piece. And funny, right?
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But more the outrage that I was reading, it just read like, well,
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you probably also complain online about everything, right?
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People on online complaints, for whatever reason, just kind of don't mean a
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lot to me because they're online, right? Things like, you should resign.
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Okay, well, sure, she's a volunteer.
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She can resign, yes. But also, like, they're offering to fix the problem.
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They understand that a bunch of people are upset.
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All right, let's get into the prompt, right?
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So they had a list of 1,500 names they needed to evaluate, and they've got a staff of volunteers.
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And somebody in the, I'm assuming, volunteer pool, somebody who had,
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let's call him Theo, right? This is an idea that I would have.
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I would be volunteering and somebody would say, here's a list of 700 names,
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go through all of them and go online and look for X, Y, and Z.
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And I would be like, this is going to take me 700 hours easily.
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Why don't I just feed it into ChatGPT, see who raises a flag,
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and then I can dig in, right? Exactly.
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And so the prompt that the staff used, this thing that elicited so much concern
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in the sci-fi community, the prompt was, using the list of names provided,
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please evaluate each person for scandals.
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Scandals include, but are not limited to, homophobia, transphobia,
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racism, harassment, sexual misconduct, sexism, fraud.
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Each person is typically an author, editor, performer, artist,
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or similar in the fields of science fiction, fantasy, and or related fandoms.
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A word I absolutely hate. Makes my skin crawl. Sorry, everybody.
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The objective is to determine if an individual is unsuitable as a panelist for an event.
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Please evaluate each person based on their digital footprint,
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including social articles and blogs referencing them.
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Also include file 770.com as a source.
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I have no idea what that is, and I should have gone look at it, and I didn't.
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Provide sources for any relevant data. That is far more reasoned a query than
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anything I tap into ChatGPT.
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And so they didn't say, tell us who to put.
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I mean, on one hand, you could argue, yeah, you're saying, tell us who to put on the panel.
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But I think if you'd given this to a team of experts, mistakes could have still happened, right?
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So everyone was up in arms because, well, ChatGPT makes stuff up.
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And so what if it makes stuff up about somebody who didn't do those things, right?
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Let's throw a sexism charge against this female author because she wrote a book
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about, I don't know, sexism charges in the future.
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Or a sci-fi book about sexism charges. You know, and then that person arguably
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could be disqualified based on chat GPT's, what do they call it, hallucinations?
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When chat GPT just makes stuff up, or AI?
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Chat GPT has become the Kleenex word for AI.
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And so I do get that, right? But yeah, you know, just double check that bullshit.
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However, a human could also have made a mistake. You could miss an important
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website or an important post, right, where somebody did say something terribly racist.
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It just feels like a lot of nonsense for no reason to me.
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But what do you think about it? I mean, does that feel like a reasoned query?
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Like, how upset should people really have been? I mean, I understand the objections
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that they have towards using chat-GPT because it was used,
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it was trained on texts that were written by some of the authors in these fandoms,
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so to speak, without their permission.
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And that is probably an issue for those people.
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Now, I don't know if they were trained on copyrighted works or if it was works
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that have been sort of out of the public or in the public domain now.
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I don't really know the details of all that, so I'm not the person to ask about that.
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But I understand where these people are coming from, and I think they have a good point.
00:18:02.544 --> 00:18:08.404
I think that this is an area that is very new, and there's going to be a lot
00:18:08.404 --> 00:18:13.284
of conversations like this before everyone just bows down to their AI overlords.
00:18:15.375 --> 00:18:18.615
Sorry, I was busy bowing down to my AI overlord.
00:18:22.095 --> 00:18:29.015
Yeah, I wish I was more concerned by this or alarmed by this.
00:18:29.195 --> 00:18:35.115
You raised a really good point about the use of a, what do they call them?
00:18:35.235 --> 00:18:37.655
Limited language model or multi-language model?
00:18:38.055 --> 00:18:41.235
Yeah, it's a limited language model. Yeah. Or something language model.
00:18:41.235 --> 00:18:50.415
Using AI, a tool that was developed, stealing from trademarked and copyrighted
00:18:50.415 --> 00:18:52.855
materials, like there's no secret there. Yeah.
00:18:53.115 --> 00:18:58.035
Right. But it's also, it's happened. That's over. It's done.
00:18:58.395 --> 00:19:03.475
And we're not going to be throwing chat GPT away because that happened.
00:19:03.855 --> 00:19:07.055
Right. Let the lawsuits work their way through courts.
00:19:08.115 --> 00:19:10.035
Yeah, I got nothing on that point.
00:19:11.375 --> 00:19:16.235
But it's just like, I wish I cared. I wish I cared about this thing everybody
00:19:16.235 --> 00:19:19.595
cares about, but I don't. I just, it's like, what?
00:19:20.195 --> 00:19:23.175
But okay. So, yeah. So, again, I
00:19:23.175 --> 00:19:26.175
gave that apology. Maybe this will be the episode that gets us publicity.
00:19:26.815 --> 00:19:31.115
This will be the episode. I will tell you that. That makes us infamous.
00:19:32.075 --> 00:19:36.195
On Facebook, our shows used to be automatically uploaded, right?
00:19:37.375 --> 00:19:43.175
And great. And we have like 325 followers on Facebook. Cool.
00:19:43.695 --> 00:19:46.795
And then Facebook quit auto-posting podcast.
00:19:47.875 --> 00:19:51.415
I love you, Facebook. Yeah, and neither do I, right?
00:19:51.595 --> 00:19:55.195
And I kind of even just forgot about it. And then I remembered not too long
00:19:55.195 --> 00:19:59.955
ago, and I was like, oh, I guess I could just manually post uploads.
00:20:00.455 --> 00:20:05.775
Why don't I go ahead and do that? And so I did with our Patti LuPone episode.
00:20:05.775 --> 00:20:09.015
I was like, hey, everybody, we're back and I'm going to be better about social media.
00:20:09.215 --> 00:20:11.455
And that was like three weeks ago. And that's one post I've done.
00:20:11.875 --> 00:20:16.955
But then we did the Gaza episode and I was like, I don't want to upload that
00:20:16.955 --> 00:20:22.195
to Facebook because there's someone somewhere is going to have something to
00:20:22.195 --> 00:20:24.395
say because it's Facebook. Right.
00:20:24.795 --> 00:20:29.095
And yeah, and I don't want to and I could turn comments off,
00:20:29.335 --> 00:20:32.255
but then that feels like a chicken ship move. Right.
00:20:32.855 --> 00:20:39.275
And so I didn't. And now I'm like, what was the point of mentioning all of this
00:20:39.275 --> 00:20:43.715
other than someone's always going to have something to say?
00:20:44.235 --> 00:20:48.575
That's it. Exactly. Being infamous. And I just wasn't. I don't want us to be
00:20:48.575 --> 00:20:51.135
infamous for Israeli and Palestine.
00:20:51.815 --> 00:20:53.795
Right. Or Israel and Palestine. Yeah.
00:20:54.915 --> 00:21:01.115
And we had four downloads in Israel and each one of them pains me because I'm
00:21:01.115 --> 00:21:03.455
like, oh, my God, I opened my fucking mouth and I said shit.
00:21:03.455 --> 00:21:10.355
And they're going to be like, what a very simplistic view of Israeli history.
00:21:10.535 --> 00:21:12.535
Sorry, it's what I got.
00:21:13.625 --> 00:21:18.605
So, yes, what would our total be or our average be on this apology?
00:21:18.905 --> 00:21:23.245
Seven to nine, 16, eight. So way better than average.
00:21:23.965 --> 00:21:27.545
Yeah. Yeah. Out of 10, 80%. Not bad.
00:21:27.745 --> 00:21:31.165
The apology checks all boxes but one. It's sincere, it's specific,
00:21:31.165 --> 00:21:34.405
and it proposes solutions. So I think that it's reasonable.
00:21:34.685 --> 00:21:38.485
I do kind of agree with you that they took very seriously something that maybe
00:21:38.485 --> 00:21:40.625
didn't need to be taken quite so seriously.
00:21:41.005 --> 00:21:46.925
Right. But at the same time, I do understand the concerns of this particular group of people.
00:21:47.065 --> 00:21:49.265
I understand the concerns. I just think they're stupid.
00:21:53.625 --> 00:22:00.625
Come at me. Come at me. All right. So how about—oh, go ahead. Yeah, right.
00:22:00.825 --> 00:22:05.665
So what's funny to me is there are a couple of other concerns,
00:22:05.925 --> 00:22:10.445
previous scandals, that I think are bigger issues.
00:22:11.145 --> 00:22:12.725
And I never heard of them. This
00:22:12.725 --> 00:22:16.505
one I heard about, but I heard about it because it involved AI, right?
00:22:16.645 --> 00:22:19.345
It's AI that's the big central issue in this.
00:22:19.505 --> 00:22:24.025
That's the sexy, slippery beast that is going to, I don't know what I'm going
00:22:24.025 --> 00:22:25.245
to do with that metaphor there.
00:22:28.985 --> 00:22:34.345
It'll flop out of the boat. And I'll be wearing crossless knitted panties.
00:22:35.225 --> 00:22:36.625
It'll flop out of the boat.
00:22:37.945 --> 00:22:41.185
The people have no idea why we're talking about cross-less knitted panties.
00:22:41.725 --> 00:22:46.725
No, ignore them. That's all right. Or do you want to know? But visit an Etsy store soon.
00:22:47.325 --> 00:22:50.885
Okay, so here's an apology that happened in 2020.
00:22:51.325 --> 00:22:54.325
Well, it's not an apology, but here's an event that happened in 2023.
00:22:54.345 --> 00:22:58.385
It was apologized for, but we're not here to evaluate that apology.
00:22:58.605 --> 00:23:03.425
So what happened at the 2023 Hugo Awards, right?
00:23:03.425 --> 00:23:07.605
In October of 2023, Hugo Awards were handed out,
00:23:07.625 --> 00:23:13.365
but there were rumblings beginning in September when nomination data revealed
00:23:13.365 --> 00:23:19.805
that certain authors and books had been deemed not eligible despite having the
00:23:19.805 --> 00:23:22.545
necessary votes to make the list the finalist.
00:23:22.625 --> 00:23:27.425
So they qualified, but somehow they were just deemed not eligible for the finalists.
00:23:28.227 --> 00:23:31.827
The most glaring slate was R.F.
00:23:32.307 --> 00:23:37.527
Kwong's book, Babel, or The Necessity of Violence, an Arcane History of the
00:23:37.527 --> 00:23:39.287
Oxford Translators Revolution.
00:23:39.787 --> 00:23:44.047
Believe it or not, that's a best-selling, highly acclaimed work that won the
00:23:44.047 --> 00:23:46.667
Nebula Award in 2022 for Best Novel.
00:23:46.807 --> 00:23:51.487
So that's attention-getting, that you won a Nebula?
00:23:51.727 --> 00:23:58.227
Wow, that's amazing. And they also won the 2023 Locus Award for Best Fantasy Novel.
00:23:59.187 --> 00:24:08.207
And so what happened? Well, guess what country hosted the 2023 Hugo Awards and Worldcon?
00:24:08.787 --> 00:24:13.387
China. Israel? China did. China. Oh, my God, no. You're trying to get me in trouble.
00:24:15.707 --> 00:24:22.027
So people believe that the 2023 Hugo Awards were censored by the Chinese government
00:24:22.027 --> 00:24:26.287
and that American and Canadian panelists simply,
00:24:26.767 --> 00:24:31.367
forgive this pun, took their marching orders from China, right?
00:24:32.627 --> 00:24:40.387
In a statement released, Esther McCollum Stewart, the chair of the 2024 Worldcon,
00:24:41.027 --> 00:24:43.827
said, offered an apology, sorry,
00:24:44.287 --> 00:24:50.187
for the, open quote, for the damage caused to nominees, finalists, the community,
00:24:50.507 --> 00:24:56.207
and the Hugo Lodestar and Astounding Awards, close quote, and then outlined
00:24:56.207 --> 00:24:59.547
steps to say, hey, we're going to be more transparent about this whole process.
00:25:00.187 --> 00:25:06.807
Never heard a word about that. And then, let's see. So that was the 2023 awards.
00:25:07.247 --> 00:25:10.127
The 2024 awards. Oh, I don't understand. Uh-huh.
00:25:10.487 --> 00:25:14.867
Let me ask you for detail that you might not have. Please. They said that that
00:25:14.867 --> 00:25:21.507
book by the presumably Chinese person was maybe disqualified because why?
00:25:22.807 --> 00:25:29.707
Thank you. Yes. So when they disqualified these works, they didn't offer an explanation.
00:25:30.387 --> 00:25:34.747
It later came out, let's see, I'll just read this paragraph.
00:25:35.347 --> 00:25:41.567
The 2023 Hugo Awards were censored because certain authors and works were deemed
00:25:41.567 --> 00:25:46.607
to have too many political liabilities, at least from the viewpoint of the Chinese government.
00:25:46.607 --> 00:25:51.547
While it's unclear if this was official censorship from the Chinese government
00:25:51.547 --> 00:25:55.867
or self-censorship by those afraid of offending governmental or business interest,
00:25:56.187 --> 00:25:59.627
we can now be certain that censorship indeed took place.
00:25:59.947 --> 00:26:07.707
However, what also disturbs this writer is that the administrators of the Hugo
00:26:07.707 --> 00:26:09.807
Awards from the United States and Canada,
00:26:09.987 --> 00:26:13.947
countries that supposedly support and value free speech, appear to have been
00:26:13.947 --> 00:26:16.167
active participants in this censorship.
00:26:16.607 --> 00:26:19.047
So that's why.
00:26:20.369 --> 00:26:24.789
Now, how did they get to all that? It was through the release of emails,
00:26:25.269 --> 00:26:28.089
basically, and staff emailing each other back and forth.
00:26:29.469 --> 00:26:35.989
In 2024, so last year's Hugo Awards, fraud took place at the ballot box.
00:26:36.569 --> 00:26:44.549
Somebody paid $21,000 total for ballot stuffing.
00:26:45.529 --> 00:26:53.929
So some anonymous source paid a bunch of people to join Worldcon at a level
00:26:53.929 --> 00:26:58.349
where they would get voting rights and then to vote for a specific author.
00:26:58.529 --> 00:27:00.869
That author, that work was never named.
00:27:01.569 --> 00:27:08.189
And of the 3,800 ballots that were cast, nearly 400 were found to be fraudulent.
00:27:08.189 --> 00:27:16.609
And the fraud stuff was like, the first name is exactly the same on 100 of these ballots.
00:27:16.769 --> 00:27:21.629
And the last name's exactly the same. But what changes is the middle name,
00:27:21.769 --> 00:27:23.249
and it changes alphabetically.
00:27:23.809 --> 00:27:31.889
So, you know, John Albert Smith, John Beauregard Smith, right?
00:27:31.889 --> 00:27:40.529
In 2015-2016, we have Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies Gate, Puppy Gate.
00:27:40.889 --> 00:27:45.729
And essentially what that was was conservative right-wing groups orchestrated
00:27:45.729 --> 00:27:50.489
voting slates, pushing predominantly white male authors.
00:27:51.169 --> 00:27:58.189
The community of voters pushed back by offering no award across categories and
00:27:58.189 --> 00:28:01.469
prompted rule changes to limit slate power.
00:28:01.469 --> 00:28:07.689
So basically what happened was a group of right-wingers felt there was too much
00:28:07.689 --> 00:28:11.389
diversity in sci-fi and too much DEI happening.
00:28:11.609 --> 00:28:17.929
And so they pushed a lot of white, straight, cisgendered.
00:28:18.703 --> 00:28:22.003
Men through as nominees.
00:28:22.403 --> 00:28:27.163
In 87 and 83, 1987 and 1983,
00:28:27.483 --> 00:28:31.343
oh my God, that feels like a trillion years ago now, we have the Scientology
00:28:31.343 --> 00:28:36.463
block where members of the Church of Scientology campaigned for Battlefield
00:28:36.463 --> 00:28:42.043
Earth in 1983 and Black Genesis in 1987 to be on the ballot.
00:28:42.383 --> 00:28:49.403
One of them made it but lost due to a no award being offered in a category, right?
00:28:49.903 --> 00:28:56.423
And then probably the biggest is the Hugo Awards takes its name from Hugo Gernsbach.
00:28:57.103 --> 00:29:01.803
And there's controversy, and I've never heard of him. Could I have looked him
00:29:01.803 --> 00:29:03.343
up? Sure, but I did, I'd know.
00:29:03.903 --> 00:29:08.903
So Hugo Gernsbach, apparently such a great writer that they named the Hugo Award
00:29:08.903 --> 00:29:15.663
after him, controversy surrounds this founding figure criticized by giants like H.P.
00:29:15.763 --> 00:29:20.943
Lovecraft for underpaying or stiffing writers, earning him the nickname Hugo the Rat.
00:29:21.383 --> 00:29:27.843
What you got to say, I just love. So yeah, it seems like our little Hugo Awards,
00:29:27.843 --> 00:29:33.463
I will pick a book up and look at it if it's won a Hugo Award, right?
00:29:33.863 --> 00:29:39.863
And I will nearly, whenever I see like Nebula nominee, right?
00:29:40.423 --> 00:29:45.103
And or one, I will typically buy that book. Like, all right,
00:29:45.223 --> 00:29:47.263
will I read it? No, I'll buy it.
00:29:49.183 --> 00:29:53.543
I'm going to try. A for effort is all I can say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:54.203 --> 00:29:59.363
And so that's the history of, it's not really the history, but that's a smattering
00:29:59.363 --> 00:30:04.443
of the history of the Hugo Awards, more in-depth and more involved in my history
00:30:04.443 --> 00:30:05.803
of Israel. Sorry, everyone.
00:30:07.803 --> 00:30:11.543
The Hugo Awards has been fraud with drama.
00:30:12.043 --> 00:30:16.483
And who knew? There's a lot of drama in sci-fi, I think.
00:30:17.119 --> 00:30:20.919
There's a lot of nerd drama. It's a lot of cosplay anger and,
00:30:21.099 --> 00:30:27.939
you know, okay, I get it, everyone, but fine. We don't have to stone anybody
00:30:27.939 --> 00:30:29.679
to death because they used AI.
00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:32.179
It's fine. We'll all live.
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:37.979
All right. So how about Apology Expected or Who's Sorry Now?
00:30:38.619 --> 00:30:45.659
I wish I had a really good one. Unfortunately, all the ones I have are, like, so big and heavy.
00:30:46.059 --> 00:30:52.479
Yeah? Yeah. Like, you know, I wish I could find something that's late, right?
00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:57.759
This week, two Democratic senators were shot. One was killed, right?
00:30:58.119 --> 00:31:05.079
So will the gunman apologize for that? There was the stupid fucking parade through D.C.
00:31:05.479 --> 00:31:12.379
And so will somebody at some future point apologize for that expenditure and waste of money?
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:19.379
I don't know. There were a ton of really rad, no Kings Day events happening
00:31:19.379 --> 00:31:22.579
across the United States. I'm still waiting for a count.
00:31:22.779 --> 00:31:26.859
Here's the apology. Apology expected from somebody for not telling me exactly
00:31:26.859 --> 00:31:32.499
how many millions of people took to the street yesterday to protest the Trump regime.
00:31:32.719 --> 00:31:37.859
That's an apology that I am expecting and probably won't get personally.
00:31:38.887 --> 00:31:43.587
But I'd like to know. Fair enough. Yeah. And like I said, it's just heavy, heavy, heavy. Ooh.
00:31:44.607 --> 00:31:49.247
Yeah. Well, mine is not particularly heavy, but it's not exactly light either.
00:31:49.507 --> 00:31:53.707
A pharmacy in Comox, British Columbia, mistakenly gave a nine-year-old boy a
00:31:53.707 --> 00:31:57.247
powerful opioid instead of his usual ADHD medication.
00:31:57.687 --> 00:32:01.907
His mother emphasized how easily the outcome could have been tragic if the family hadn't noticed.
00:32:02.527 --> 00:32:06.807
The opioid, hydromorphone, has a potency approximately two to eight times greater
00:32:06.807 --> 00:32:09.187
than that of morphine and a rapid onset of action.
00:32:09.747 --> 00:32:11.567
So a kid would probably be dead.
00:32:12.487 --> 00:32:15.987
My thinking, if the family hadn't picked up that the pills were very different
00:32:15.987 --> 00:32:17.767
and not what they were expecting.
00:32:18.067 --> 00:32:22.807
So thank goodness for that. But I don't know if the pharmacy has apologized, but they should.
00:32:23.427 --> 00:32:27.607
Yes, they should. And it is giving shades of It's a Wonderful Life.
00:32:28.707 --> 00:32:31.047
Beginning, have you ever seen that movie? It's a Wonderful Life.
00:32:31.747 --> 00:32:34.687
Yeah, but I don't remember any of it. Oh, my God. Okay. You have to watch it
00:32:34.687 --> 00:32:36.467
right now. It is so great.
00:32:37.367 --> 00:32:41.847
Watch it every year. And the pharmacist, his son had died in the war,
00:32:41.887 --> 00:32:43.447
and he just got the telegram.
00:32:43.867 --> 00:32:48.207
And so he did what any reasonable pharmacist would do while working,
00:32:48.247 --> 00:32:50.307
and that was get really drunk.
00:32:50.707 --> 00:32:57.347
And then he mixed up the medications and put poison in a medication,
00:32:57.347 --> 00:32:59.427
and then he gives the medication to,
00:32:59.687 --> 00:33:03.987
I don't know, little Jimmy Stewart, the kid playing Jimmy Stewart as a younger
00:33:03.987 --> 00:33:06.447
guy, as a kid. It's a nine-year-old, right?
00:33:06.627 --> 00:33:12.167
A nine-year-old who's working in the pharmacy behind the counter as a soda jerk, right?
00:33:12.887 --> 00:33:17.007
Wow. Is he nine? He might be 12. But whatever, I'll tell you what,
00:33:17.427 --> 00:33:19.987
too young for a job. Yeah.
00:33:20.972 --> 00:33:25.652
And so the kid goes to deliver the medication, but he saw the drunk,
00:33:25.872 --> 00:33:29.392
sad pharmacist put the poison and knew that it was poison because the bottle
00:33:29.392 --> 00:33:33.292
was clearly marked poison with a skull and crossbone on it. Yeah.
00:33:33.872 --> 00:33:38.632
And so the kid didn't know what to do and didn't want to deliver the poison medication.
00:33:39.692 --> 00:33:48.252
So he just kind of walked around town thinking and then saw a sign that said, ask dad, he'll know.
00:33:48.532 --> 00:33:52.612
Right. Which was an ad on a billboard. And so he goes to ask his dad,
00:33:52.732 --> 00:33:54.032
but his dad is busy and so whatever.
00:33:54.212 --> 00:33:57.192
So he doesn't really get any directive from his father.
00:33:57.492 --> 00:34:04.112
And in all of this time that's happening, right, it's like nearly an hour in their time has gone by.
00:34:04.292 --> 00:34:06.892
This all happens within, you know, 30 seconds on screen.
00:34:07.352 --> 00:34:12.452
The kid goes back to the pharmacy and the druggist is on the phone.
00:34:12.852 --> 00:34:17.412
He is slurring. He is so drunk. And he's like, what?
00:34:17.772 --> 00:34:20.652
Well, that medication should have been there an hour. go.
00:34:20.992 --> 00:34:27.472
I'll get right on it. And then the kid walks into the druggist's office and
00:34:27.472 --> 00:34:36.612
the druggist takes his hand back and he slaps the kid right across the face like a massive,
00:34:37.012 --> 00:34:41.232
a 1940s slap to the ears, what that kid got.
00:34:41.452 --> 00:34:45.472
And his ear starts bleeding. This is a Christmas movie.
00:34:46.368 --> 00:34:46.648
Okay.
00:34:49.108 --> 00:34:54.728
His ear starts bleeding and the kid grabs his ear and drops the medication onto
00:34:54.728 --> 00:34:58.528
the floor and he starts crying and he's like, Mr.
00:34:58.628 --> 00:35:02.248
Gower, you don't know what you did. You're just sad and you're confused.
00:35:02.608 --> 00:35:06.808
It wasn't your fault. You put something bad in those pills. Just take them.
00:35:07.088 --> 00:35:09.928
Just taste them. You'll know. You'll know in a moment.
00:35:10.408 --> 00:35:16.188
Very 1940s. The druggist is shocked, drops to the floor, picks up the bag,
00:35:16.388 --> 00:35:18.028
opens one of the pills, tastes it.
00:35:18.128 --> 00:35:22.488
His face contorts into an agony of drunken shame.
00:35:22.808 --> 00:35:28.608
And he goes to hug the kid and the kid screams, no, don't hit me again. Don't hit me again.
00:35:28.828 --> 00:35:34.048
This was perfectly acceptable in 1940, right? To smack a child, cause bleeding.
00:35:34.308 --> 00:35:42.008
And then one of the points of the movie is that the guy grows up and he's deaf
00:35:42.008 --> 00:35:47.228
in that ear because the druggist smacked his ear drum eardrum,
00:35:47.488 --> 00:35:48.928
popped it, I guess. Yeah.
00:35:49.348 --> 00:35:54.948
Right? Yeah. And so his trick ear becomes sort of a thing throughout the movie.
00:35:55.788 --> 00:36:00.548
And yeah. And it's like, God, we missed the 40s. Bring him back. Oh, they're trying.
00:36:01.568 --> 00:36:07.888
It's great. Yeah, they are trying. Yeah. God. And so there you go.
00:36:08.428 --> 00:36:13.468
That's why your story reminded me. A wonderful life has been brought to you by...
00:36:15.848 --> 00:36:21.228
Not an ad. Vermont's Pharmacy, British Columbia. Drunk pharmacists everywhere
00:36:21.228 --> 00:36:26.488
apologized for putting opiates into children's medication.
00:36:26.948 --> 00:36:32.568
I mean, yeah, they'll be apologizing. Although they probably can't because the lawsuit's coming.
00:36:34.048 --> 00:36:37.928
I was just going to say the medication that the kid usually takes is dextroamphetamine,
00:36:37.928 --> 00:36:41.728
which is just like, oh, man, that's not exactly safe either. But it is for ADHD.
00:36:42.168 --> 00:36:48.448
So it's just a bunch of potentially dangerous medications in this story.
00:36:48.728 --> 00:36:52.908
But anyway, that's it. I think that's it for the week. Do you have anything
00:36:52.908 --> 00:36:54.708
else you'd like to say before we part?
00:36:55.348 --> 00:36:57.928
Always, constantly. Let me tell you about the third grade.
00:36:58.788 --> 00:37:00.328
No, I got nothing. Okay.
00:37:01.708 --> 00:37:03.868
You're so game. You're such a good friend.
00:37:06.988 --> 00:37:09.768
Stay cool cucumbers and don't trip potato chip.
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:21.360
Music.
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Thank you for listening to apologies accepted the podcast you can find links
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to articles and the sources in the show notes to submit an apology or find out
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more visit us at ApologiesAccepted.net, where you can also find our merchandise.
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We're on Twitter at ApologiesAccepted. And on Instagram at Apologies.Accepted.
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You can support our important work at Patreon forward slash ApologiesAccepted.
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And fuck Facebook. Bye.
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Music.