WEBVTT
00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:10.000
This is Amplifying Autism, where every voice matters and every story shines.
00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:25.280
Join us as autistic authors, professionals, and trailblazers share their journeys, real stories, and real insight from those changing the world one conversation at a time.
00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:31.679
If it looks like I'm not at home, it's because I'm not.
00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:36.719
I'm having a writing retreat at an undisclosed location.
00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:41.039
Shh.
00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:51.759
I couldn't possibly take a week off from recording the podcast because I'm so excited to have as our guest today Sarah Teresa Cook.
00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:55.840
Sarah is an autistic writer and creative mentor.
00:00:56.159 --> 00:01:00.240
Her writing has appeared in various publications and in anthology.
00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:06.959
And she also publishes For the Birds, a Substack newsletter and monthly workshop series.
00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:19.920
Through her coaching and mentorship work, she helps neurodivergent creatives build sustainable affirming practices while developing a more robust relationship with the page.
00:01:20.239 --> 00:01:27.359
As a fellow writer and a bird lover, her Substack, For the Birds, really resonates with me.
00:01:27.599 --> 00:01:31.359
Welcome to the podcast, Sarah Teresa Cook.
00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:33.519
Sarah, welcome to the podcast.
00:01:33.599 --> 00:01:34.959
I'm so pleased to have you here.
00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:36.159
Hi, Wendy.
00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:39.519
It's so lovely to finally be meeting in this way.
00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:43.519
Yeah, I've been following your Substack for a while now.
00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:57.920
Um before we talk more about that, because I do want everyone to hear more about that and your mentorship work, but I would love to hear how your life has changed since discovering that you were autistic.
00:01:58.640 --> 00:01:59.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:06.480
So I discovered my autism a few years ago in my mid-30s.
00:02:06.879 --> 00:02:20.000
And before that, I had lived all of my life, you know, really struggling with social things, with emotional things, with my mood, with sensory things too.
00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:28.240
But without the autism framework, I think they just got like categorized sort of oddly in my mind as like, oh, I'm just so emotional.
00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:31.599
I'm, you know, there was a lot of like, I'm, I think I'm just crazy.
00:02:31.759 --> 00:02:32.560
I think I'm just crazy.
00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:35.120
I think I'm, you know, a lot of that kind of talk.
00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:44.080
Um, and I I had also, I think like the closest framework I could find that sort of spoke to my experience was OCD.
00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:49.759
So I also carried around this belief for many, many, many years that I have OCD.
00:02:49.919 --> 00:02:54.000
Now, that being said, it never fully explained what I was experiencing.
00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:55.439
It never provided relief.
00:02:55.599 --> 00:03:06.800
I also was in and out of therapy since roughly the age of 12 or 13 and was told by many, many therapists, um, no, you don't have OCD, you definitely don't.
00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:13.439
And then they would often just suggest, like, we should look into some mindfulness practices and things like that.
00:03:13.599 --> 00:03:20.560
Um, I often think now about how, like, when you're undiagnosed autistic, mindfulness work will only take you so far, right?
00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:22.879
Like it's sort of like, yeah, not sufficient.
00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:37.919
So anyway, um, cutting to the to the good stuff, I a couple of years ago started working with my current therapist who is just amazing and they're neurodivergent themselves, and they work with a lot of neurodivergent people.
00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:50.400
And we started working together really intimately for a couple of months, and then they suggested, because I had sort of brought up this OCD thing again, and and they said, you know, can I can I make a suggestion?
00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:53.599
I actually would really love to talk with you about autism.
00:03:54.240 --> 00:04:07.280
And then, I mean, I this is becoming such a common thing for folks like me that it almost sounds cliche, but like everything just started clicking into place, right?
00:04:07.439 --> 00:04:17.920
Like suddenly I had this like context for understanding my life and my experiences, both now when I was younger.
00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:27.920
Like everything just started clicking into place in this way that, you know, frankly, I found very I find very satisfying.
00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:38.160
But also like it means that for the past two to three years, for the genuinely the first time in my life, I've been able to like meet my needs.
00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:48.079
Or when I can't meet my needs, or when I'm struggling, or when I'm having a meltdown, I still get the sort of solace of like kind of understanding why it's happening.
00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:56.639
Like that, even that, even that understanding, I I find like so healing and comforting.
00:04:56.800 --> 00:05:00.879
Like, and that has just completely changed how I regard myself.
00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:05.759
Well, you know, I have heard this story.
00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:12.480
I have family members who were first told that they were OCD, and it didn't quite fit all the pieces.
00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:20.319
Um, but knowing that uh you you finally have a name that fits and feels right makes such a difference, doesn't it?
00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:21.680
Yeah.
00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:30.879
Now, like many people I know who are autistic are also very creative, and that is uh something that I want to talk about.
00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:39.600
Your creativity uh and how it comes out in your Substack, but also your work with others, mentoring autistic creatives.
00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:43.120
Can you tell us about uh for the birds and your other work?
00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:44.560
Yeah, absolutely.
00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:45.600
Happy to, yeah.
00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:51.600
Creativity is the one thing that I never was confused about about myself.
00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:59.519
I have been making and writing and drawing and creating things truly since I was like three, and it has stuck with me my whole life.
00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:01.120
It is my oldest special interest.
00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:04.639
It is the thing I want to talk to every single person about all the time.
00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:16.800
Um, and so fortunately, yeah, I'm I'm in this place in my life now where for the past five or so years, I've been self-employed working as a creative mentor.
00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:21.759
So I work really intimately with other writers, other creative humans.
00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:25.920
Most of them are neurodivergent, many of them are late diagnosed.
00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:38.879
And what is so tremendously wonderful about that work is when I'm working with other late diagnosed humans, there is this really rich shared vocabulary and shared experience that we have.
00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:49.680
And what that means is we're able to go to these really depthful places thinking about their creativity, not just in a practical sense.
00:06:49.839 --> 00:07:02.959
Like, how do we how do we talk about a writing practice that isn't driven by discipline and consistency, but by like the reality that for a lot of us, our energetic capacity ebbs and flows.
00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:08.639
And we have needs that we might need to think about more seasonally versus like daily, right?
00:07:08.720 --> 00:07:15.839
There's like, there's like a different way that we are creative when we're neurodivergent, different, different gifts, different needs.
00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:28.240
And so it's it's wonderful to be able to like work with people on that because what it makes for is just a much more holistic practice, but also like a sustainable one, right?
00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:36.560
So that we're not just like burning ourselves out over and over and over again and having to turn away from our creativity in this like blunt way.
00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:45.600
One of the things I know about your your group is um, and you'll correct me if I'm getting the language wrong, but there's a circle when you all get together.
00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:47.120
Is that what's called the circle?
00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:47.759
Yeah.
00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:52.000
I love that concept because it's like everyone together.
00:07:52.160 --> 00:08:09.680
It's not just you teaching them, although you have so much to share with them, and that's why they come, is to to learn from you, but that it's also a circle where all of them are a part of that creative um well, you can say it better than I can, I'm sure.
00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:10.720
Yeah, yeah.
00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:12.240
So thank you so much.
00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:12.639
Yeah.
00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:20.319
So so set separately from the mentorship work, I publish this Substack called For the Birds, which you mentioned.
00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:28.879
And that is, of course, a space that's deeply informed by the mentorship work, but it is also my own kind of primary creative outlet, right?
00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:42.960
So I'm I'm also publishing essays and poems and all the all the like real-time thinking that I'm doing around creativity and neurodivergence and the more than human world is sort of the other topic that shows up a lot there.
00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:45.360
Um, that's all happening in my Substack.
00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:51.360
And then what I do for paying readers, because there's a paid tier on Substack.
00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:55.120
Um, yeah, I host these once-a-month workshops for a long time.
00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:58.399
I was referring to them as like, yeah, the resiliency circle.
00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:06.159
Um yeah, the the idea being, yeah, it's not, it's not just a typical workshop.
00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:15.200
So it's it's really, I I in my past life was um in like frontline social services work, doing housing advocacy.
00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:17.600
I worked with foster kids for a long time.
00:09:17.840 --> 00:09:28.399
I I was trained really thoroughly in that space in both trauma-informed care practices and in utilizing a strength-spaced lens when working with other folks.
00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:35.759
And I take those two things very, very, very seriously and have carried them with me into this current iteration of my life.
00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:45.919
And I find that in in creative spaces and workshops and like learning spaces, when we're talking about writing and creativity, we also need those things.
00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:57.039
We need those lenses because our creativity touches all the hard stuff, our wounds, our memories, our imagination, our biggest dreams.
00:09:57.200 --> 00:09:59.039
You know, it's it's all interconnected.
00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:03.440
So it's it's this once-a-month gathering that we do.
00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:07.039
And I like to say that it's like really low stakes.
00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:11.679
Like you, like, I'm really big on people showing up however they are.
00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:14.399
Camera off is always welcome.
00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:17.679
Like you, you can say as much or as little as you want.
00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:25.360
You don't, I sometimes have people who tune in and their camera is off and they're like walking and they're just listening to us, right?
00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:30.240
Like, so there's lots of different ways to participate that are all equally valid.
00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:33.679
But the idea is that once a month, right?
00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:59.840
Low stakes, once a month for an hour, maybe two, we gather in really intentional community and we just spend a really nourishing time, a really focused time nourishing our creativity, doing something nourishing, something energizing, something that will kind of give us that burst of creative enthusiasm that can then carry us forward for the next few weeks.
00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:06.639
Um, I a lot of people in my audience like me have varying energetic capacities.
00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:18.320
And it's, I think a lot of us are overbooked and we're on Zoom all day, and it's, you know, it's hard to like there, we have that tension of like, oh, I wanna, there's like 50 workshops I want to sign up for, and I can't.
00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:21.200
I can barely, I can barely sign up for one more.
00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:27.840
And so I really try to have this space be really, really curated so that it's not asking a lot of you.
00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:36.159
It doesn't expect a lot of you, but when you're there, you're gonna get so much out of it and it's gonna be like really nourishing.
00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:38.879
That is amazing.
00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:40.639
It's and it's so needed.
00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:48.879
There are very few places in the world, as I know you know, where people can get that kind of a group and that kind of support.
00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:50.720
So thank you for doing that.
00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:52.240
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:56.720
Now, and how can people uh how can people sign up for that?
00:11:57.039 --> 00:12:03.039
Yeah, so my they can go to my Substack, which is SarahCook.substack.com.
00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:05.440
The title is for the birds.
00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:09.039
And um, when you sign up, it'll give you options.
00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:14.320
You can join as a free reader and you'll still get 99% of the things that I publish.
00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:18.720
Or you can sign up at the paid tier, it'll give you a monthly or annual option.
00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:20.480
It's um$8 a month.
00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:24.799
So$8 a workshop, a little bit cheaper if you commit to a year.
00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:27.840
Um, you can change that, you know, at any time.
00:12:27.919 --> 00:12:30.639
You can cancel at any time, but it's it's pretty straightforward.
00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:36.240
And once you're once you're signed up as a paid reader, um, you'll get monthly invitations from me.
00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:40.960
And I'm building an an archive of some asynchronous workshop support as well.
00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:46.159
So there's there's a lot of a lot of good stuff there, if I can just say that bluntly.
00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:49.120
Yes, you can, and I will support that.
00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:59.519
I had I had one of your for the birds pop up on my uh email today, and I'm looking forward to getting in so I can just dig in because it's always a joy.
00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:01.440
Um, I also love birds.
00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:09.919
So when you have you know little side trips, I don't know if you call them, but there are so many little things that I find in for the birds.
00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:13.039
Um, but birds is one of my favorite things.
00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:14.240
Oh, thank you.
00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:14.960
That's wonderful.
00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:17.519
Yeah, mine, mine too, birds and bugs.
00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:19.919
Yes, the bugs.
00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:33.440
Now, a lot of our listeners are just at that point where you were a couple of years ago, where they're either suspecting that they're autistic or they've just been diagnosed, and it's kind of a shock at first.
00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:36.159
Uh one hopes a happy shock.
00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:41.759
Uh, but you know, but it is a big change for someone who gets that news.
00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:46.960
Do you have any advice or words of wisdom that you want to share with those listeners?
00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:55.120
Yeah, I really, I really do, and I really want to try to speak to the imposter syndrome piece that can come up.
00:13:55.360 --> 00:14:02.480
Because I, you know, I I think a really common part of this experience is there is a lot of joy.
00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:04.799
There is a lot of like relief and revelation.
00:14:04.960 --> 00:14:13.600
And then, of course, there's a little bit of anger, there's a little bit of grief, you that, you know, thinking about your life all those years before you knew.
00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:24.399
What I have found, interestingly, is that I find the grief and the anger to be actually much more manageable than the imposter stuff.
00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:28.799
Because it's the imposter stuff that can be like, well, maybe you're wrong.
00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:32.000
Maybe, maybe your therapist and the assessor got it wrong.
00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:37.120
Maybe you're you know, I mean, that's that's the part that grief and anger, it's like, oh, I understand you.
00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:39.200
You're a part of you're part of being human.
00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:41.679
The imposter stuff is a little trickier.
00:14:41.840 --> 00:15:00.320
So one thing that has helped me with that is to kind of create a little bit of spaciousness in my mind between identity and like a practice or experience.
00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:01.840
So here's what I mean.
00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:07.279
I love, I love, love, love and value my autistic identity so much.
00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:20.480
But if if I if I woke up tomorrow and God or whatever came down and said, sorry, honey, you're not autistic, like, okay, that identity part would change.
00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:32.960
But what wouldn't change, what wouldn't change are the experiences I have, the sensory experiences, the emotional stuff, the social stuff that makes sense in the framework of autism.
00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:45.440
What wouldn't change is the way I've been able to use knowing that I'm autistic and all of the sort of like information and guidelines around that to better meet my needs and to feel happier and healthier.
00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:52.799
Like, like the practices I I turn to now and the experiences I've had, those are like objectively true.
00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:53.840
That's true.
00:15:54.080 --> 00:16:04.000
It's almost, it's almost like this identity piece, which again is so important, but it can almost sometimes feel a little more abstract or like existential.
00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:08.960
And I think that's where some of that worry about getting it wrong can pop up.
00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:19.759
And so I I sometimes find it helpful to just think about the experiences that are true, you know, and the practices that have genuinely helped me.
00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:29.039
There's a kind of I can like root into those things in a way that I I almost I almost start to think I'm autistic, I'm not, whatever.
00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:30.159
Like that doesn't matter.
00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:34.480
What matters is I have been given a framework that like has enriched my life.
00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:37.679
And that leads me to believe I'm I'm autistic.
00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:39.840
And some professionals agree with me, right?
00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:53.279
So, but it's almost it's almost like that part doesn't matter as much as like the lived experience and and the way my my day-to-day physical life has changed as a result of it.
00:16:53.519 --> 00:17:02.639
So I try to just like focus on that when the imposter is being really loud, and I I do find that it diffuses it a little bit.
00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:10.240
That is so perfect because I know so many people who struggle with imposter syndrome.
00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:12.079
It is huge.
00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:16.240
And to just have somebody say, I believe you.
00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:21.359
Yeah, I believe in you, believe in yourself, you know, trust, trust yourself.
00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:22.160
Absolutely.
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:26.559
Um it's something that I think a lot of us need to hear.
00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:29.359
Um, so so thank you for that.
00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:30.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:35.759
Is there anything else that you would like to share before we say goodbye today?
00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:39.359
Anything that I could have asked you and I didn't ask you, maybe?
00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:41.200
That's a good question.
00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:48.160
Well, I will just maybe tease a project a teeny tiny bit that I'm excited about.
00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:53.519
Um, I am working, I am working on a book, my first book, which is very exciting.
00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:57.200
Um, it's slated to come out next year.
00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:08.960
I at the time that we're recording this, I'm actually like this month finalizing the contract and all those like exciting, but also weird big kid behind the scenes stuff.
00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:18.400
So I I I won't say too much about that just yet, but um it is a it is a nonfiction book about uh divergent creative practices.
00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:33.680
And it's just, you know, it feels like it's both a natural extension of the mentorship work that I'm doing and also like this thing I've been carrying around inside me since I was three that I'm just like so excited to write and make.
00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:45.359
And I want it, I really want it to be something that other neurodivergent and tender-hearted folks can pick up and read and see themselves in and feel inspired by.
00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:07.680
I think that's tricky for us neurodivergent people, right?
00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:13.519
Because we need we need cueing and prompting, but we don't want to be told what to do.
00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:15.599
Who does?
00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:17.039
Yeah, who does, exactly?
00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:17.759
Brilliant.
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:18.400
Yeah.
00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:30.240
Well, I just want to invite you right now, when that book is about ready to launch, come back on the show and we will um help with that launching process because thank you.
00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:31.680
That's that's a book.
00:19:31.839 --> 00:19:41.759
And I think the imposter syndrome is not just for autistic folk, but creative folk who think maybe I'm not creative, you know.
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:43.200
Absolutely.
00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:44.720
Absolutely.
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:54.000
I I heard I can't remember who said this, but um, my sister always quotes the definition of a writer is someone who feels bad about not writing.
00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:56.480
Oh boy, that's so true.
00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:02.640
So if somebody's having imposter syndrome thinking, oh, I'm not a good writer, I'm not writing enough.
00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:04.400
Well, you are a writer.
00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:06.160
That's just it.
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:07.119
There you are.
00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:07.759
Yeah.
00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:08.799
Oh my gosh.
00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:12.880
Yeah, that's that it really rings us true for me.
00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:13.680
Yeah.
00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:16.559
Well, thank you so much for being here.
00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:18.880
It was lovely to have this chat.
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:21.200
And I'm looking forward to next time you come on the show.
00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:22.799
I can't wait to read your book.
00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:23.839
I am too.
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:25.200
Thank you so much, Wendy.
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:26.960
This has been just delightful.
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:30.799
Didn't you just love this conversation with Sarah Teresa Cook?
00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:32.079
Me too.
00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:42.319
I especially liked the way her creative work focuses on attention, perception, and internal experience.
00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:51.279
The world needs her insights into how divergent ways of thinking can shape creativity and meaning making.
00:20:51.519 --> 00:21:00.960
I hope you'll check out her Substack for the Birds at SarahCook.substack.com, as well as her website, Sarah TeresaCook.com.
00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:04.079
There's an H in Sarah, but not in Teresa.
00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:07.359
Well, you can find the links and more in the show notes.
00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:11.039
Thanks for listening to this episode of Amplifying Autism.
00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:13.119
I'm WendellaWittkin Marsh.
00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:14.960
Looking forward to next time.
00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:22.640
You've been listening to Amplifying Autism, celebrating the voices that shape a more understanding world.
00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:24.720
Don't miss the next episode.
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:29.920
More stories, more insight, and more voices that matter.
00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:10.000
This is Amplifying Autism, where every voice matters and every story shines.
00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:25.280
Join us as autistic authors, professionals, and trailblazers share their journeys, real stories, and real insight from those changing the world one conversation at a time.
00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:31.679
If it looks like I'm not at home, it's because I'm not.
00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:36.719
I'm having a writing retreat at an undisclosed location.
00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:41.039
Shh.
00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:51.759
I couldn't possibly take a week off from recording the podcast because I'm so excited to have as our guest today Sarah Teresa Cook.
00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:55.840
Sarah is an autistic writer and creative mentor.
00:00:56.159 --> 00:01:00.240
Her writing has appeared in various publications and in anthology.
00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:06.959
And she also publishes For the Birds, a Substack newsletter and monthly workshop series.
00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:19.920
Through her coaching and mentorship work, she helps neurodivergent creatives build sustainable affirming practices while developing a more robust relationship with the page.
00:01:20.239 --> 00:01:27.359
As a fellow writer and a bird lover, her Substack, For the Birds, really resonates with me.
00:01:27.599 --> 00:01:31.359
Welcome to the podcast, Sarah Teresa Cook.
00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:33.519
Sarah, welcome to the podcast.
00:01:33.599 --> 00:01:34.959
I'm so pleased to have you here.
00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:36.159
Hi, Wendy.
00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:39.519
It's so lovely to finally be meeting in this way.
00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:43.519
Yeah, I've been following your Substack for a while now.
00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:57.920
Um before we talk more about that, because I do want everyone to hear more about that and your mentorship work, but I would love to hear how your life has changed since discovering that you were autistic.
00:01:58.640 --> 00:01:59.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:06.480
So I discovered my autism a few years ago in my mid-30s.
00:02:06.879 --> 00:02:20.000
And before that, I had lived all of my life, you know, really struggling with social things, with emotional things, with my mood, with sensory things too.
00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:28.240
But without the autism framework, I think they just got like categorized sort of oddly in my mind as like, oh, I'm just so emotional.
00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:31.599
I'm, you know, there was a lot of like, I'm, I think I'm just crazy.
00:02:31.759 --> 00:02:32.560
I think I'm just crazy.
00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:35.120
I think I'm, you know, a lot of that kind of talk.
00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:44.080
Um, and I I had also, I think like the closest framework I could find that sort of spoke to my experience was OCD.
00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:49.759
So I also carried around this belief for many, many, many years that I have OCD.
00:02:49.919 --> 00:02:54.000
Now, that being said, it never fully explained what I was experiencing.
00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:55.439
It never provided relief.
00:02:55.599 --> 00:03:06.800
I also was in and out of therapy since roughly the age of 12 or 13 and was told by many, many therapists, um, no, you don't have OCD, you definitely don't.
00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:13.439
And then they would often just suggest, like, we should look into some mindfulness practices and things like that.
00:03:13.599 --> 00:03:20.560
Um, I often think now about how, like, when you're undiagnosed autistic, mindfulness work will only take you so far, right?
00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:22.879
Like it's sort of like, yeah, not sufficient.
00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:37.919
So anyway, um, cutting to the to the good stuff, I a couple of years ago started working with my current therapist who is just amazing and they're neurodivergent themselves, and they work with a lot of neurodivergent people.
00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:50.400
And we started working together really intimately for a couple of months, and then they suggested, because I had sort of brought up this OCD thing again, and and they said, you know, can I can I make a suggestion?
00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:53.599
I actually would really love to talk with you about autism.
00:03:54.240 --> 00:04:07.280
And then, I mean, I this is becoming such a common thing for folks like me that it almost sounds cliche, but like everything just started clicking into place, right?
00:04:07.439 --> 00:04:17.920
Like suddenly I had this like context for understanding my life and my experiences, both now when I was younger.
00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:27.920
Like everything just started clicking into place in this way that, you know, frankly, I found very I find very satisfying.
00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:38.160
But also like it means that for the past two to three years, for the genuinely the first time in my life, I've been able to like meet my needs.
00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:48.079
Or when I can't meet my needs, or when I'm struggling, or when I'm having a meltdown, I still get the sort of solace of like kind of understanding why it's happening.
00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:56.639
Like that, even that, even that understanding, I I find like so healing and comforting.
00:04:56.800 --> 00:05:00.879
Like, and that has just completely changed how I regard myself.
00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:05.759
Well, you know, I have heard this story.
00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:12.480
I have family members who were first told that they were OCD, and it didn't quite fit all the pieces.
00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:20.319
Um, but knowing that uh you you finally have a name that fits and feels right makes such a difference, doesn't it?
00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:21.680
Yeah.
00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:30.879
Now, like many people I know who are autistic are also very creative, and that is uh something that I want to talk about.
00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:39.600
Your creativity uh and how it comes out in your Substack, but also your work with others, mentoring autistic creatives.
00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:43.120
Can you tell us about uh for the birds and your other work?
00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:44.560
Yeah, absolutely.
00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:45.600
Happy to, yeah.
00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:51.600
Creativity is the one thing that I never was confused about about myself.
00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:59.519
I have been making and writing and drawing and creating things truly since I was like three, and it has stuck with me my whole life.
00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:01.120
It is my oldest special interest.
00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:04.639
It is the thing I want to talk to every single person about all the time.
00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:16.800
Um, and so fortunately, yeah, I'm I'm in this place in my life now where for the past five or so years, I've been self-employed working as a creative mentor.
00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:21.759
So I work really intimately with other writers, other creative humans.
00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:25.920
Most of them are neurodivergent, many of them are late diagnosed.
00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:38.879
And what is so tremendously wonderful about that work is when I'm working with other late diagnosed humans, there is this really rich shared vocabulary and shared experience that we have.
00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:49.680
And what that means is we're able to go to these really depthful places thinking about their creativity, not just in a practical sense.
00:06:49.839 --> 00:07:02.959
Like, how do we how do we talk about a writing practice that isn't driven by discipline and consistency, but by like the reality that for a lot of us, our energetic capacity ebbs and flows.
00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:08.639
And we have needs that we might need to think about more seasonally versus like daily, right?
00:07:08.720 --> 00:07:15.839
There's like, there's like a different way that we are creative when we're neurodivergent, different, different gifts, different needs.
00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:28.240
And so it's it's wonderful to be able to like work with people on that because what it makes for is just a much more holistic practice, but also like a sustainable one, right?
00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:36.560
So that we're not just like burning ourselves out over and over and over again and having to turn away from our creativity in this like blunt way.
00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:45.600
One of the things I know about your your group is um, and you'll correct me if I'm getting the language wrong, but there's a circle when you all get together.
00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:47.120
Is that what's called the circle?
00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:47.759
Yeah.
00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:52.000
I love that concept because it's like everyone together.
00:07:52.160 --> 00:08:09.680
It's not just you teaching them, although you have so much to share with them, and that's why they come, is to to learn from you, but that it's also a circle where all of them are a part of that creative um well, you can say it better than I can, I'm sure.
00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:10.720
Yeah, yeah.
00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:12.240
So thank you so much.
00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:12.639
Yeah.
00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:20.319
So so set separately from the mentorship work, I publish this Substack called For the Birds, which you mentioned.
00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:28.879
And that is, of course, a space that's deeply informed by the mentorship work, but it is also my own kind of primary creative outlet, right?
00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:42.960
So I'm I'm also publishing essays and poems and all the all the like real-time thinking that I'm doing around creativity and neurodivergence and the more than human world is sort of the other topic that shows up a lot there.
00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:45.360
Um, that's all happening in my Substack.
00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:51.360
And then what I do for paying readers, because there's a paid tier on Substack.
00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:55.120
Um, yeah, I host these once-a-month workshops for a long time.
00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:58.399
I was referring to them as like, yeah, the resiliency circle.
00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:06.159
Um yeah, the the idea being, yeah, it's not, it's not just a typical workshop.
00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:15.200
So it's it's really, I I in my past life was um in like frontline social services work, doing housing advocacy.
00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:17.600
I worked with foster kids for a long time.
00:09:17.840 --> 00:09:28.399
I I was trained really thoroughly in that space in both trauma-informed care practices and in utilizing a strength-spaced lens when working with other folks.
00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:35.759
And I take those two things very, very, very seriously and have carried them with me into this current iteration of my life.
00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:45.919
And I find that in in creative spaces and workshops and like learning spaces, when we're talking about writing and creativity, we also need those things.
00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:57.039
We need those lenses because our creativity touches all the hard stuff, our wounds, our memories, our imagination, our biggest dreams.
00:09:57.200 --> 00:09:59.039
You know, it's it's all interconnected.
00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:03.440
So it's it's this once-a-month gathering that we do.
00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:07.039
And I like to say that it's like really low stakes.
00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:11.679
Like you, like, I'm really big on people showing up however they are.
00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:14.399
Camera off is always welcome.
00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:17.679
Like you, you can say as much or as little as you want.
00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:25.360
You don't, I sometimes have people who tune in and their camera is off and they're like walking and they're just listening to us, right?
00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:30.240
Like, so there's lots of different ways to participate that are all equally valid.
00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:33.679
But the idea is that once a month, right?
00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:59.840
Low stakes, once a month for an hour, maybe two, we gather in really intentional community and we just spend a really nourishing time, a really focused time nourishing our creativity, doing something nourishing, something energizing, something that will kind of give us that burst of creative enthusiasm that can then carry us forward for the next few weeks.
00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:06.639
Um, I a lot of people in my audience like me have varying energetic capacities.
00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:18.320
And it's, I think a lot of us are overbooked and we're on Zoom all day, and it's, you know, it's hard to like there, we have that tension of like, oh, I wanna, there's like 50 workshops I want to sign up for, and I can't.
00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:21.200
I can barely, I can barely sign up for one more.
00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:27.840
And so I really try to have this space be really, really curated so that it's not asking a lot of you.
00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:36.159
It doesn't expect a lot of you, but when you're there, you're gonna get so much out of it and it's gonna be like really nourishing.
00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:38.879
That is amazing.
00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:40.639
It's and it's so needed.
00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:48.879
There are very few places in the world, as I know you know, where people can get that kind of a group and that kind of support.
00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:50.720
So thank you for doing that.
00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:52.240
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:56.720
Now, and how can people uh how can people sign up for that?
00:11:57.039 --> 00:12:03.039
Yeah, so my they can go to my Substack, which is SarahCook.substack.com.
00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:05.440
The title is for the birds.
00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:09.039
And um, when you sign up, it'll give you options.
00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:14.320
You can join as a free reader and you'll still get 99% of the things that I publish.
00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:18.720
Or you can sign up at the paid tier, it'll give you a monthly or annual option.
00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:20.480
It's um$8 a month.
00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:24.799
So$8 a workshop, a little bit cheaper if you commit to a year.
00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:27.840
Um, you can change that, you know, at any time.
00:12:27.919 --> 00:12:30.639
You can cancel at any time, but it's it's pretty straightforward.
00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:36.240
And once you're once you're signed up as a paid reader, um, you'll get monthly invitations from me.
00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:40.960
And I'm building an an archive of some asynchronous workshop support as well.
00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:46.159
So there's there's a lot of a lot of good stuff there, if I can just say that bluntly.
00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:49.120
Yes, you can, and I will support that.
00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:59.519
I had I had one of your for the birds pop up on my uh email today, and I'm looking forward to getting in so I can just dig in because it's always a joy.
00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:01.440
Um, I also love birds.
00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:09.919
So when you have you know little side trips, I don't know if you call them, but there are so many little things that I find in for the birds.
00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:13.039
Um, but birds is one of my favorite things.
00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:14.240
Oh, thank you.
00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:14.960
That's wonderful.
00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:17.519
Yeah, mine, mine too, birds and bugs.
00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:19.919
Yes, the bugs.
00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:33.440
Now, a lot of our listeners are just at that point where you were a couple of years ago, where they're either suspecting that they're autistic or they've just been diagnosed, and it's kind of a shock at first.
00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:36.159
Uh one hopes a happy shock.
00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:41.759
Uh, but you know, but it is a big change for someone who gets that news.
00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:46.960
Do you have any advice or words of wisdom that you want to share with those listeners?
00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:55.120
Yeah, I really, I really do, and I really want to try to speak to the imposter syndrome piece that can come up.
00:13:55.360 --> 00:14:02.480
Because I, you know, I I think a really common part of this experience is there is a lot of joy.
00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:04.799
There is a lot of like relief and revelation.
00:14:04.960 --> 00:14:13.600
And then, of course, there's a little bit of anger, there's a little bit of grief, you that, you know, thinking about your life all those years before you knew.
00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:24.399
What I have found, interestingly, is that I find the grief and the anger to be actually much more manageable than the imposter stuff.
00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:28.799
Because it's the imposter stuff that can be like, well, maybe you're wrong.
00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:32.000
Maybe, maybe your therapist and the assessor got it wrong.
00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:37.120
Maybe you're you know, I mean, that's that's the part that grief and anger, it's like, oh, I understand you.
00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:39.200
You're a part of you're part of being human.
00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:41.679
The imposter stuff is a little trickier.
00:14:41.840 --> 00:15:00.320
So one thing that has helped me with that is to kind of create a little bit of spaciousness in my mind between identity and like a practice or experience.
00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:01.840
So here's what I mean.
00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:07.279
I love, I love, love, love and value my autistic identity so much.
00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:20.480
But if if I if I woke up tomorrow and God or whatever came down and said, sorry, honey, you're not autistic, like, okay, that identity part would change.
00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:32.960
But what wouldn't change, what wouldn't change are the experiences I have, the sensory experiences, the emotional stuff, the social stuff that makes sense in the framework of autism.
00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:45.440
What wouldn't change is the way I've been able to use knowing that I'm autistic and all of the sort of like information and guidelines around that to better meet my needs and to feel happier and healthier.
00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:52.799
Like, like the practices I I turn to now and the experiences I've had, those are like objectively true.
00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:53.840
That's true.
00:15:54.080 --> 00:16:04.000
It's almost, it's almost like this identity piece, which again is so important, but it can almost sometimes feel a little more abstract or like existential.
00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:08.960
And I think that's where some of that worry about getting it wrong can pop up.
00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:19.759
And so I I sometimes find it helpful to just think about the experiences that are true, you know, and the practices that have genuinely helped me.
00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:29.039
There's a kind of I can like root into those things in a way that I I almost I almost start to think I'm autistic, I'm not, whatever.
00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:30.159
Like that doesn't matter.
00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:34.480
What matters is I have been given a framework that like has enriched my life.
00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:37.679
And that leads me to believe I'm I'm autistic.
00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:39.840
And some professionals agree with me, right?
00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:53.279
So, but it's almost it's almost like that part doesn't matter as much as like the lived experience and and the way my my day-to-day physical life has changed as a result of it.
00:16:53.519 --> 00:17:02.639
So I try to just like focus on that when the imposter is being really loud, and I I do find that it diffuses it a little bit.
00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:10.240
That is so perfect because I know so many people who struggle with imposter syndrome.
00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:12.079
It is huge.
00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:16.240
And to just have somebody say, I believe you.
00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:21.359
Yeah, I believe in you, believe in yourself, you know, trust, trust yourself.
00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:22.160
Absolutely.
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:26.559
Um it's something that I think a lot of us need to hear.
00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:29.359
Um, so so thank you for that.
00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:30.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:35.759
Is there anything else that you would like to share before we say goodbye today?
00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:39.359
Anything that I could have asked you and I didn't ask you, maybe?
00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:41.200
That's a good question.
00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:48.160
Well, I will just maybe tease a project a teeny tiny bit that I'm excited about.
00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:53.519
Um, I am working, I am working on a book, my first book, which is very exciting.
00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:57.200
Um, it's slated to come out next year.
00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:08.960
I at the time that we're recording this, I'm actually like this month finalizing the contract and all those like exciting, but also weird big kid behind the scenes stuff.
00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:18.400
So I I I won't say too much about that just yet, but um it is a it is a nonfiction book about uh divergent creative practices.
00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:33.680
And it's just, you know, it feels like it's both a natural extension of the mentorship work that I'm doing and also like this thing I've been carrying around inside me since I was three that I'm just like so excited to write and make.
00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:45.359
And I want it, I really want it to be something that other neurodivergent and tender-hearted folks can pick up and read and see themselves in and feel inspired by.
00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:07.680
I think that's tricky for us neurodivergent people, right?
00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:13.519
Because we need we need cueing and prompting, but we don't want to be told what to do.
00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:15.599
Who does?
00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:17.039
Yeah, who does, exactly?
00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:17.759
Brilliant.
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:18.400
Yeah.
00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:30.240
Well, I just want to invite you right now, when that book is about ready to launch, come back on the show and we will um help with that launching process because thank you.
00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:31.680
That's that's a book.
00:19:31.839 --> 00:19:41.759
And I think the imposter syndrome is not just for autistic folk, but creative folk who think maybe I'm not creative, you know.
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:43.200
Absolutely.
00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:44.720
Absolutely.
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:54.000
I I heard I can't remember who said this, but um, my sister always quotes the definition of a writer is someone who feels bad about not writing.
00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:56.480
Oh boy, that's so true.
00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:02.640
So if somebody's having imposter syndrome thinking, oh, I'm not a good writer, I'm not writing enough.
00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:04.400
Well, you are a writer.
00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:06.160
That's just it.
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:07.119
There you are.
00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:07.759
Yeah.
00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:08.799
Oh my gosh.
00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:12.880
Yeah, that's that it really rings us true for me.
00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:13.680
Yeah.
00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:16.559
Well, thank you so much for being here.
00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:18.880
It was lovely to have this chat.
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:21.200
And I'm looking forward to next time you come on the show.
00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:22.799
I can't wait to read your book.
00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:23.839
I am too.
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:25.200
Thank you so much, Wendy.
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:26.960
This has been just delightful.
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:30.799
Didn't you just love this conversation with Sarah Teresa Cook?
00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:32.079
Me too.
00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:42.319
I especially liked the way her creative work focuses on attention, perception, and internal experience.
00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:51.279
The world needs her insights into how divergent ways of thinking can shape creativity and meaning making.
00:20:51.519 --> 00:21:00.960
I hope you'll check out her Substack for the Birds at SarahCook.substack.com, as well as her website, Sarah TeresaCook.com.
00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:04.079
There's an H in Sarah, but not in Teresa.
00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:07.359
Well, you can find the links and more in the show notes.
00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:11.039
Thanks for listening to this episode of Amplifying Autism.
00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:13.119
I'm WendellaWittkin Marsh.
00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:14.960
Looking forward to next time.
00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:22.640
You've been listening to Amplifying Autism, celebrating the voices that shape a more understanding world.
00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:24.720
Don't miss the next episode.
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:29.920
More stories, more insight, and more voices that matter.
