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Automated transcript of the sermon audio, generated with OpenAI Whisper (small.en). It has not been checked against the recording and may contain errors, especially in names and Scripture references.
Raise your hand if you heard the name Jerry Rice. That's pretty impressive. There are some who were even the generation behind me who raised their hand anyway. I think that his last season in the NFL was in the late 90s. So he is widely regarded as one of the best football players of all time. He had good size as 6'2", 201 pounds. But neither his size, nor his speed, ignore any of those sort of tangible attributes were exceptional. Many of the things that made Jerry Rice exceptional were the things that he cultivated, not just the things that he inherited. For instance, he was an exceptional route runner.
He would do double and triple moves in order to create separation from defenders. And no matter how disciplined the defensive back might be, it is really difficult to stay in the hip, as they say, of an offensive player when he's juking you at a high rate of speed, much so to do so while he makes repeated efforts to get rid of you. Jerry Rice could take over a game, and Jerry Rice was a receiver.
Receivers play offense in football, and I think in life too. The best receivers would think of their game planning in terms of attacking defensive backs. They would game plan in such a way as to get them off their step right at the line of scrimmage. And then the defensive back would be at their mercy. And this is interesting when the effectiveness of a defensive of a receiver, a wide receiver, really depended on whether or not the quarterback gave him the ball. receivers make no mistake, are weapons. And though he is at the mercy of the quarterback to get him the football, the receiver is important nevertheless.
In fact, it'd be silly to suggest otherwise, to suggest that just because his role is to deal with whatever it is that he is given, that he's of less importance. He's what they call a skill player, one of those who's tasked with touching the ball in any given play. And Jerry Rice would make it his aim to exhaust defensive backs even on running plays. On running plays, when he was nothing but a decoy, he would get the defensive backs out of the play by sprinting down the field, making them chase after him just to take that guy out of the play and to exhaust the defender. Keep him guessing, keep him guessing, keep him guessing.
But the receiver is important, receiver though he may be, and he has work to do to get himself in position to receive well. And in doing so, as a guy who's played quarterback at recess a few times, I can tell you that a good receiver can make the quarterback's job an absolute delight. And he can make a defensive back's work maddening and frustrating. I've seen plenty of games where it seemed like the defense had no answer for that receiver, and where a receiver took over a football game. Because you just knew that the quarterback was going to drop back, close his eyes, and just hawk the ball as far as he could. And there was nothing the defense could do about it, but that receiver was going to come down with it.
That is called weaponized receiving. Likewise with feasting. Feasting is weaponized receiving. And tonight we're continuing our study of building and battling in the negative world. And as Sean mentioned, in May, my thoughts turn even more than typical to feasting. I got to talk about it at our assembly last Thursday. And even some of the thoughts I have tonight are similar to what I shared then. Indulge me, not all of it's the same. I've written about it lots of May's as we get ahead of the fundraising feast, which is far more about feasting than it is about fundraising. And I just believe that this is such an important part of the culture that we're trying to develop here.
And as we're looking to build and battle in the negative world, the sort of culture that we are looking to build here in our lifetimes is a Christian community of jealousable worshippers. And they will evidence that jealousability. They will evidence that they have been blessed by God and will make that blessed life look good. Their lives will provoke then the right sort of jealousy among a dying generation around them. Others will want the blessings that we have, that these jealousable worshipers enjoy, and a feature, I believe, of such a community is that they will know how to feast. Now, the coming generation of jealousable worshipers will feature then frequent, and I'm suggesting formidable feasting.
But most immediately, this formidable feasting here and now will help us to build the sort of community we're talking about. So let me say that again, to be clear. As I'm talking about formidable feasting tonight, I'm talking about something that I believe will be a feature of a jealousable culture that we're trying to build later in our lifetimes, but down the road. But I also am suggesting that practicing formable feasting and being formable feasters will be something that will help us to get there. So it is a device for building and battling here and now, not just in our hearts, but in our world. I'm going to consider this tonight under two big headings.
First, I would like to look at the features of formidable feasters, as in the persons themselves. And then I'd like to consider features of formidable feasting as in the practice, the act of feasting itself. But first, perhaps it would be helpful to identify what we mean when we say formidable. And I will not try to improve upon the dictionary definitions from Oxford and from Merriam-Webster. So first, Oxford says the formidable means inspiring fear or respect through being impressively large, powerful, intense, or capable. And the notion of that describing our feasting excites me. The notion of that describing our persons excites me.
According to Merriam Webster, it means something I think even more fun. It's got a three-fold definition. First, causing fear, dread, or apprehension. Second, having qualities that discourage, approach, or attack. And then third, tending to inspire awe or wonder, impressive. So formidable is an adjective that applies to both the people and the practice of feasting. So first, we're going to look at the features of formidable feasters. In Psalm 23, verse 5, David says, you prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. Surrounded by the enemies of God, David worshiped and has worshiped involved receiving with intentionality from the hand of God.
David absolutely terrified his adversaries and why. David was a formidable feaster. He was marked by the attributes that I'm suggesting here. What sorts of things are we talking about? Well, the ECS other graduation requirements provide us a pretty good list. And I'm not going to try and improve upon that, just like I'm not trying to improve upon the dictionary definition for formidable. So I'm suggesting six attributes that should sound familiar to many of you. First, formidable feasters are stout because they require a substance of character. I already mentioned that a generation, a community of formidable feasters will really know how to feast, and they're feasting.
That is not the same thing as partying. It's more than that. Their feasting is not shallow, empty-headed, vapid partying like the world does. It's not this sort of hedonistic affair that the world champions so much, that they advertise in the beer commercials and so much. In fact, that is as much like feasting as balsa wood is like iron. Formidable feasting rather than flows from a character that is weighty and mindful. You can't be a flyweight and feast well and I'm not talking about how well you hold your alcohol or your pot roast. I'm talking about substance. I'm talking about what praise from you means. So a person of character who confers a blessing or a compliment has more effect than a liar who gives a compliment or a blessing.
And what does praise to God from you mean? Praise from the righteous, from the godly is more than praise from the wicked or ungodly. And the feasting of a stout feaster, likewise, means much more. So a formidable feaster must be stout. I also would argue that a formidable feaster is generous because he knows that it is more blessed to give than to receive. If you are selfish, your feasting will never be formidable. Feasting comes from a generous heart. Gluttony comes from a selfish heart.
And if you come to the banqueting table selfishly, whatever it is that you're doing, not feasting. Generous people are ready givers of themselves and of their resources because they understand that all the good things that they enjoy are undeserved blessings. This is the gospel. And people who are properly oriented to understand grace are themselves gracious. They are big-hearted and generous. Third, formidable feasters are copious because it's impossible to feast too much. Copious means abundant in supply or in quantity. Formidable feasters feast a lot and while feasting is work it is way more work to have the right heart than it is to have the right menu or the right place settings or to make sure that the meat is not overdone. If feasting is weaponized receiving and I'm suggesting that it is and if it's receiving good gifts in such a way as to show off the giver of those gifts? Can this be done too much? So, remembering that feasting is more than eating, it's easy to make a distinction. Over-eating is
easy. Over-feasting is impossible. Formidable feasters are prodigious because God's blessings are great. They are great in expanse. Prodigious means remarkably or impressively great in size extent or in degree. In the Old Testament the feast lasted for a week and I'm not suggesting necessarily that we try to do that although if we did it would gain the attention of the watching world. Still, feasting involves food and it's more about a mindset than than it is about the menu, mindset of a menu. And while that may be the case, it is also a fact that a Big Mac is just not as compelling as a steak.
In other words, while fast food has its place, it's all awful, that's fine, it does not require the same level of feasting copiousness that is required of a steak, of tri-tip, tri-tip, smoked chicken, chocolate cake, and whiskey. Receiving these things well receives some muscle, some skill, some care. Formidable feasting builds our worship capacity. So the practice actually enables us to be able to do more and also shapes us into certain kinds of persons. Frequent feasters become fit feasters and fifth feasters are formidable. Formidable feasting expands our worship capacity, it glorifies God, it roots us and it grounds us so that we're not easily blown about. And what else? Formidable feasters are thankful because they understand grace. The blessings that we enjoy are undeserved and thankful is on the other side of the same coin as generous and just as the generous man knows that it's more blessed to give than it is to receive.
So likewise the formidable Feaster recognizes that his thankfulness is itself a gift to the givers. So the way that you receive things that are given to you not only by God but even by other people influences not only their enjoyment but whether or not they ever give to you again. Now God is not stingy, but you have the capability of receiving well and being a vehicle of blessing you're doing so. How much more so in God is the giver of that gift? Ought our hearts to be right in our thankfulness and our receiving those. When we realize that all the good gifts that we receive and enjoy are completely undeserved, that too humbles and orients us. And the result is that we are more apt to receive still more blessings in the end. If you are at a feast full of grateful people, the atmosphere is sweet even if the meal is scanty. From Passover to Thanksgiving, and those are different times, places, different stories, feasts themselves recognize the existence of a giver. Thanksgiving presupposes somebody
to whom you're giving thanks. And when we feast, we recognize and praise the provision of God. When we feast, we are recognizing the provision of God and celebrating it. And so feasting that is formidable does this on purpose, does this with intention and joy, where the focus is on the giver of those good things to us. I'll also mention this in the next piece, but a feature of this is singing the right songs in cooperation with your feasting also is a good way to orient us as to who the giver of the good gifts actually is. So then, unsurprisingly, formidable feasters are jovial because they know that laughter is war. That's the motto of our school and it's also a good orienting motto for life. Joviality is an outflow of thankfulness and generosity. They all go together like the ingredients of a chocolate chip cookie. Without it, the world won't care a whit about our feasting. If you cannot be jovial in your feasting, why would they want to do what you're doing? That is not compelling at all. They will not care about our feasting. They will not care
about the receiving so-called that we are doing. They will not care about about our efforts to honor God through our feasting, dour feasting is an oxymoron. There's no such thing. Whatever it is, if it's dour, it's not feasting. I think it's Ben Merkel is the one who said that you can tell if the feasting's being done right if transitioning to the inclusion of the singing of Psalms is natural. So if you can move right into singing Psalms as a feature of your festivities, then you're doing it well. Now, that does not necessarily mean that if you don't sing Psalms, you're not feasting, but it at least shouldn't be awkward if you try.
So singing Psalms, a praise to God, should not be out of place with the sort of feasting that we're talking about. People, the world will not understand this. And in many cases, the fact that they don't care that much is a more of a testament to our doing it badly than it is to their spiritual deadness. I mean, it's impossible to separate the two, but they're disinterest from the fact that they don't love God. But I mean, even if they don't love God, if we're doing it well, it should at least make them curious. So formidable feasters must be ready to sing, they must be jovial, and that's what, so that sort of six-fold picture is what formidable feasters look like.
I told you the second I would look at features of formidable feasting.
going to do that now. And I want to then return to the definition provided to us by Merriam-Webster and break it down or apply just a little bit. The first, you may recall, was causing fear, dread, or apprehension. Something that is formidable causes fear, dread, or apprehension. Formidable feasting then does the same. The presence of the formidable feaster provokes fear in his enemies. Of a degree, and so of course this all presupposes the existence of somebody to actually be threatened by her feasting, if you love God and if you belong to Christ you have enemies. Whether you acknowledge that or not, whether you like to think about that or not, it is not something that you get to escape. It is a reality and no matter how often or how little we actually think about them. But thinking about the devil himself, a pretty simple illustration, it's not hard to imagine why the devil would be threatened or cranky if we are gathering to consciously receive good gifts from God and to honor him through that receiving. Why was David
so intimidating to his enemies? Because God was with him. When God wasn't with him, David didn't do well. And we know from the early chapters of 1 Samuel that as a person, I mean yes he was courageous, when he was alone in the desert as a youth he killed the bear and the... yes. But really he was not compelling. When he was anointed and when God was with him, he was formidable. If we will be marked by these things, we must plead with God to be with us and we must work to cultivate holiness, a love for him, so that that is evident. God would come and go in the Old Testament and by way of his spirit and David prayed that in Psalm 51, take not your spirit from me, and he will not take a spirit from us. That is a permanent gift, but God does the work.
God does the work. And so we are at His mercy to be with us and then effect in us this sort of formidable capacity to feast. And now, just like the wide receiver who can work on his routes or work on his hand strength, there are things that we can do.
And we need to work to be the sort of people that God is with such that when we are feasting it elicits the right kind of fear, dread, or apprehension on the part of the enemies of God. There's an interesting scene that now the parallel here breaks down immediately because it actually it ended badly for Israel. But you may recall in a season before Israel had a king when Samuel was actually the judge. In chapter 4 they're under the judgment of God and they go to war. Round one the Philistines win and then they bring the Ark of God into the camp and then they start cheering and the Philistines hear it and they go oh no. Can't like what what what chance do we have now? Now little did the Philistines know that at that point Israel was being judged by God. He was about to chastise them and he did actually give them over to the Philistines and then the Ark of God went into the hand of the Philistines and that was bad for them too and that's the scene where Dagon falls down before the Ark and all the rest. But at least the Philistines had it right. That is when
they hear the merry-making and the presence of God with the people of God then the effect on the part of our adversary should be a, oh no, oh no, I would much rather be on that side than this one. Formidable feasting appropriately causes fear, dread, or apprehension. When the enemies of God see or hear worshippers praising him, it understandably makes them nervous. At least it should. Conversely, consider for a moment what if the enemies of God were completely disinterested in what we were doing. What if they were glad that we were assembling? Why would that be? Because they think that our worship is completely impotent or God is not. And if the enemy is not threatened, his focus and his attention will be elsewhere. Webster also says that something that is formidable has qualities that discourage, approach, or attack. Just like those Philistines were discouraged from approaching or attacking Israel. I suggest that some such qualities as those that we just discussed, stoutness, thankfulness, joviality, and so on, are the sorts of
things we're talking about here. Those are the qualities that discourage, approach, or attack. And it is part of why the motto laughter is war is so potent for us at the school is because joyful warriors are actually hard to beat for a couple of reasons. But among them is they have a deep rooted optimism because they're on the winning side and it's settled. So joviality, thankfulness, the rest, generosity, those will affect an affect that discourages approach or attack. The Feaster, who is feasting formatively, enjoys an orientation of his loves and of his fears. So feasting well orients our loves and fears. It orders them rightly.
It's also part of how it is a tool that we can use to build, is feasting orders our loves and our fears. If the Feaster is feasting well, he's worried about outside threats. And another thing that's worth observing is that feasters are rarely alone. Just like soldiers on the battlefield, feasters enjoy a sort of strength in numbers. Singing Psalms alone in the car is a healthy devotional practice. Singing Psalms with your people in church at the city park, that's warfare. Which party is more vulnerable? The one alone or or the one with many, which is more formidable.
Webster also says that something that is formidable tends to inspire awe or wonder. It is impressive. Now we might call that jealousable. It provokes curiosity, wonder, and then makes those who don't enjoy the blessings that we are receiving want the blessings that we're receiving. And just like it is, It is Christian faithfulness to boast in the Lord because in your boasting you're not talking about yourself You're talking about the giver of the good things you're enjoying likewise Feasting is not about the Feaster nearly as much as it is about the provider of the feast So it ought not to be confused. This should not be confused with admiration because it's not like they look on and then they love us They don't get our enemies don't get the warm fuzzies when they see us praising God The stout jovial man is not easily rattled. The prodigious copious man is not easily caught off guard. The thankful man is not easily discouraged or distracted.
But the unbeliever looking on will understand none of that. So it will impress him, ideally, if he's paying attention. But he won't understand it. And perhaps, perhaps, he'll be given to ask. So now that, imagine amassing this group of feasters, formidable feasters, what happens? What happens at that table? Maybe somewhere, maybe in Marysville, maybe tonight. There's a small knot of fearful Christians who are assembled together, nibbling away guiltily on stale peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and praying earnestly that they would not enjoy it too much, lest it become a sort of gluttonous idolatry. The devil has made a mental note to deal with him later because they're not a problem right now. At the moment he's distracted by a merry group across town enjoying their peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, similar cuisine to the first one, they're or even every bit of stale.
With laughter and song, the lights are on, and the windows are open. The passersby crane their necks to see what the big deal is. Which of these do you think poses the greater curiosity to a dying world? Which of these causes greater anxiety to the devil? Which of these offers something on which you can build?
Which of these feasting parties understands better the sense of Ecclesiastes 9-7. Go eat your peanut butter and jelly with joy and drink your wine, your glass of milk with a merry heart, for God has already approved what you do. Well, just because you're a receiver doesn't mean you're not a force to be reckoned with, and God is dispensing blessings all over the place. There are particular blessings in store that land in the lap of the faithful and those who feast well are well positioned to receive those blessings from God. These people are both a threat to their enemies as well as an aroma from life to life to those who are being saved. Our formidable feasting will not only be a feature of a jealous community we want to build but it will also help us to get there from here. Let's pray together. Father make us like this we pray and we do recognize that it is not about the peanut butter jelly or the pizza or the steak or the macaroni and cheese or the cold cereal.
It is about our hearts orientation and if we can actually be deeply and genuinely grateful for whatever it is that you give, that is a gift and then that makes us hard to beat by your grace. And we pray that as we do faithfully boast as we do receive well we would not do so to puff ourselves up we would not do so because of any sense of self-importance but rather because you are kind so we pray to help us to find good and clear application even as we have opportunity to discuss now we pray in Christ's name amen. So leave time for for questions and if you don't have questions I'll make you ask questions because I've got some for you. Okay I'll get the party started why did I not talk about more, and actually I did, I did reference a handful of foods, but I didn't really talk about any menus, why not?
You said it's about the nail. It's not about the nail. It's not about the food. I mean, it is about the food, but it's more about the people and the fellowship and the attitude of gratitude and the joyfulness and the gratefulness and all of that laughter and fun in the face of the enemy. Yeah, which of the two can the world ape? The menu is easy to mimic. Maybe in some cases the world has better food than us, but just like part of why I love Thanksgiving so much because they have to try really hard, secularists do, to have a thankful attitude toward the cosmos for aligning properly in such a way as to spontaneously generate a turkey for me.
No, rather, we're giving a nod to the giver of good gifts. So while they can eat turkey, we can eat turkey. They don't love the giver. We do. Yeah. Fantastic. Really good question, Reva. Give us some more. Yes, sir. Mr. Harsh. Oh, livestream. Hello, everyone joining us online. Hey, I've read Proverbs 17, 1, but the feasting you're talking about is very different from the feasting that's... It's better it is a dry morsel with quiet than a house full of feasting with strife. I know that you said you can't have dour feasting. This seems like a different kind of feasting.
of feasting, like you could use the word music in a couple of different settings and they could be totally different types of music. How would you unpack this particular passage? Yeah feasting is not... I am offering a different sort of working definition for the kind of feasting that we're trying to practice have be a feature, like a building block for culture, because obviously the idea of feasting is not unique to the Judeo-Christian tradition. It is not unique. It's not unique to us at all. It's just what was happening in pagan mead halls or what was happening in a house without thankfulness or fellowship may be called feasting.
It's just not the feasting I'm talking about. So what they're talking about there is a bounteous meal with strife, no thanks. I'd rather have that stale peanut butter and jelly with friends and singing, right? I'm trying to think of how to word this. It's always been a little bit of a disconnect for me in some ways. So I'm wondering if you can elaborate on it.
Like when you say formidable feasting provokes fear our enemies. Are you speaking both in a spiritual sense, like those watching from the spiritual realm, because I think what we would be used to is inviting in the enemies, the unbelievers, to feast with us and to show them Christ in that way. And a lot of our feasting is done behind closed doors where people may not even know we're in their feasting. So I'm wondering if you could just expand on that thought of provoking fear in our enemies when a lot of what we do is with the body and justifiably so, eating together, drinking together, but then how that translates into those in the outside world who may not even be able to see through the wall at what we're doing.
There's actually a lot of facets to what you just talked about. Yeah, like on one hand, what is the point of trying to live what we call jealousably, if not to provoke the right sort of people with the right kind of jealousy. And then ultimately, onto the fullness of the Gentiles, we want for them to want what we have, not because we're awesome, but because God is. And there's a whole other category of people who are actually bona fide enemies of God who are never going to be saved. Now, we don't know they are. We evangelize, then we give the gospel freely, broadly, but still until the very end, God will have enemies and then finally death will be defeated.
And so in a spiritual sense, yes, but also in a real sense. I think that there, I mean, you see it in the news, there are a lot of secularists who just can't understand what it is about those blasted Christians that drives them bonkers. But there was a great deal of spiritual warfare going on during the COVID shutdowns. And we know that now. We knew it then, you can see it even more clearly now, but it came as no surprise to me even in the moment that the BLM riots and the rest happened while so many congregations were not assembling on the regular, praying for their communities, and then sharpening one another, in Christ's likeness and beholding Christ together.
So what happens in the churches has ripple effects outside, whether they see it, whether they like it, it just is. So there are going to be some who just hate what we're doing, whether they can say why in any sort of intelligent way or not, they're going to hate it. And then there are others, And then in the spiritual realms, absolutely. We know that there's no reason to suspect that demons would ever be excited about what we do here on Sunday mornings or evenings.
Or what you all do around your dinner table. Like, they hate that. So yes, in a spiritual sense, absolutely. But also, I would say, in a more tangible, real sense too. to. We have physical neighbors to this property who are mad about singing and playing. You have extraordinary neighbors who are mad about singing and laughing and playing choices. Yes, not hypothetical. Yes, Madeline? So, it really stuck out to me when you were talking about being thankful feasters and I I find that we exercise that term a lot in our family. Who in your life sets the greatest example of a thankful feaster? And how do they do this?
Well, that's a really good question. And I think it is perhaps a kindness from the Lord that nobody stands out.
What I mean is that in micro, and we're looking to try to grow this, I actually get to spend well over 90% of my time around Christians. So I happen to be one whose work enables me to spend around people who like me love the Lord and who are actually trying to advance the same things from a mission standpoint that I am to. So while it is an area where we can continue to grow, I do spend a lot of time at the school with people for whom an attitude of merriment is something we're constantly working on. So to have, because again I'm not trying to say like we've got a dial we actually need to grow in this, but I do between a lot of the students and like all of the teachers get to be with people who have a feasting mindset on the regular and how do they do that by laughing heartily at a at a scanty meal and if we we yeah and with that said we need to get better and excel still more so that that is more consistent in our interactions across the board. Not just with one another with students but at home with our
families with our with our neighbors. We are out in the world. But yeah, I'm I don't mean to be vague there. I can't think of a person who just leaves everybody else in the dust in terms of of enfleshing thankful feasting. I guess yes sir first of all dad you're doing a great job getting the mic. Sure the people at home loving hearing just parts of that. That's why I said good job.
So Mr. Tsar in terms of like your house being one of those, your house has also had not just this property has had the cops called you or your house has had the cops called from neighbors and I don't think we've actually had the cops called have we we did yeah we did have we did yeah here we did uh-huh but your your neighbor has was it was it a threat or there's a lot of words yeah but so in terms of so we get you know we can look at negative feedback on our feasting at about most of the time it's about a hundred percent of it it's false feedback are there lines where you know parents are not actually paying enough attention to their kids or it is actually just being obnoxious I'm not saying that we're doing that, but do you think there are some lines that like you've thought of before or what some of those ditches would be because we do still want to be pleasant even if we are allowed, but what do you think there are some lines and where would those be? Yeah, well Jocko says that discipline
equals freedom, right? So, I mean, I was looking for a way to squeeze Jocko and when feasting, yeah right now. But I believe that feasting is a Christian discipline and just because it's a discipline doesn't mean it's not fun. So there are absolutely, and you know, 1 Corinthians, we're exhorted to do all, whether it's a liturgy in church or beyond that, the principle applies to do things in an orderly fashion. So just as feasting is not just partying, so it is hospitality needs to be a feature of it on the part of the host and on the part of the guest. And that, so when I mentioned that a receiver with a former fester has a thankful heart and he can be a means of blessing to the giver by how he receives, the same thing can happen.
If you go over to somebody's house and turn your kids loose and they destroy the home of the person that you're visiting, that is violating the spirit of hospitality as a guest. It does not mean that you need to have your child actually on a chain either. That would be bad. That would be bad. So like so many things, just because it is joyful, fun, and free does not mean that it is without any sort of structure or boundary. And then also a heart of hospitality does give consideration to all parties, and that That means that when you are the guest, you are thinking about how to make your host's life a delight too.
So it goes both ways. If we are having, now there are going to be times where it is, okay, let's just, the kids are free to run around, the rooftop, the fences are high. generally speaking, practicing wisdom is in order and that doesn't need to come at the cost of those different attributes that we talked about here. I don't think that's any... In fact, to a watching world that's going to provoke even more curiosity. Wow! So, the stories are legion of... What was I thinking? I heard an anecdote about the Fight Lab Feast conference being in Nashville or something like that. And they said, I've never seen so many people drink so much beer and not get drunk.
You know, they're just making merry and having a great time. And then the world is like, that does a square with my experience. you know. So if we can make Mary, if we can have fun, if we can feast and do so in a controlled fashion at the same time, they'll say, how do you do it? Okay, so if feasting is a big way we're commending the works of the Lord to the next generation by showing them how to do it, that's obviously one big way. So showing them how to be grateful receivers ourselves. But that comes with being a grateful giver as well and training them how to do that. And it involves being sturdy as kids do weird stuff like try to help each other feast.
You're saying for children to be grateful givers. Have you said it? Uh huh. As we train them to do that, how, what are your best hot tips for dad's comfort? about for parents to make themselves sturdy as their kids are learning how to give and receive and doing it really awkwardly or in ways that involve a lot of what looks like waste. Well, that's a good question and at least if I understand the question correctly and I think and any of the other parents are welcome to chime in, I will give a simple answer that I try to practice that is actually be excited when your kids give you stuff. Recognizing that, I mean at this stage in her life, I think that giving things away Julia's way of throwing things away. So, which is something she doesn't want anymore.
She goes, no it's for you. It's like, oh thanks so much. It's clearly precious. So to try to affirm a spirit of generosity in the bud and just not being too fussy, then you can do things like, that was really thoughtful, can I help you beautify it a little bit? So then do it with them and then make it even more more special than they buy in, it actually looks better and it's something that's more worth giving. What are the hot tips from you parents? There's a lot of parents in the room. How do you cultivate a spirit of generous and thankful giving in your children? Is it fair to say, Maggie, am I doing that justice?
Not a plate full of food that they could actually eat, but a plate full that the entire family could eat. So I think a lot of it is the parents going along with their kids as they are learning to receive and to give and giving advice. Learning. Parents being involved. Like when you get in a group, are you free from your kids? You know, because now you get to spend time, sort of like even being here at church, are you free from your kids? You get to talk to other adults that you don't get to see very often, and meanwhile your kids are learning to grow on their own. Taz being adults. Or the behest of their friends.
So I think it's the parents being cognizant that little kids still need a lot of hands on advice and cautionary kind of conversations as it's going on. Well, you got the microphone, you're next anyway, so. Okay. All right, go ahead. We do a lot of evaluating, like in leadership, we get the questionnaire of one to ten, how are we doing? How do you think as a body we are doing in the feasting area? I think we're pretty good. I think we're pretty good with some room to grow.
But I think too that trying to be intentional about it is like I don't know anywhere else that talks about feasting like this, like literally. I do know that, and actually I appreciate this about some of the folks over in Moscow where feasting is a part of their culture. That is really good. But for them, they're further along down the road and they talk about it like you and I would talk about breathing. It's more natural. So for us, we're trying to forge a mindset where we actually do these things on purpose rather than they're happening to us. Because of that, I think the frame of reference is very, very limited.
There's a part of me that wants to say in some ways we're off the charts, just because what's the comparison? by how well we're doing, does everybody get what we do? No, no, I don't think so. I think it is more a, well that's pleasant. I think I like what's coming from the room I'm in. I don't know how it got here. I don't know how to manufacture it. I don't know how to make it happen next week. And so to that degree we have some work to do. But for where we are on the timeline, where we are in terms of this generational work, I think there's lots of reason to be encouraged. Any of the other elders are welcome to chime in or give a 7.24.
No, I'm kidding. Going back to your first question that you proposed. Yeah, about the menu or whatever? Yeah, about the menu. Does the menu matter? I don't think we would say like flavor doesn't matter or quality doesn't matter in the sense of even like we we it's the the state of the heart that matters when we're singing and yet we get together to learn to sing better we want to sing with competence we want to be skillful in our worship, the Bible calls us to do so. And in a similar way for our meal preparations, for our aesthetics on the table, right, all of that, for that to be pleasing to the eyes, to the smell, to the taste, all of that, we would think is important and we would want to grow more and more in that.
And so even when Proverbs talks about, you know, better as dinner verbs where love is than a fattened ox with hatred with it or whatnot that kind of conditional comparison but the best is a fattened ox and love right yeah so how would we balance that with not being pretentious and persnickety and fussy and picky about these minute details how do we care about flavor and competence and doing a good job on the skill level of feasting while not being while not ruining all the fun in it all as well. Yeah so that is that's a really good question and it's easier said than done I think it's it's about cultivating gratefulness because if you are if you are grateful then that is going to cover a whole host of mediocrity sins.
Now, there is a sense in which the menu doesn't matter. But the menu, but I also said that a steak is more compelling than a Big Mac. So there are things that we can do to make feasting sweet. And so, yes, it is more important, and it is harder work for our hearts to be right, But then, provided the heart is right, go overboard. Like, make it awesome. Make it beautiful. It's aesthetically pleasing. It's pleasing to all of the senses. It smells wonderful. It tastes delightful. Like, ribeye is better than London broil. It just is. I mean, and it sorta winds in between there somewhere. But, and, you know, is, there are some things, There are some things, so the, you got, there's times through the two buck chuck, which is now like what, four buck chuck? I don't know.
The inflation and there's times where really nice Cabernet, you know? Absolutely. What we talk about as a family with our, with our dinners on Saturday nights, for instance, is getting a running start to Sunday morning and the, and, and, and, you know, giving mince on Sundays. So the Sundays are sweet. Corporate worship is sweet. We want for it to be something that is alluring, appetizing. And I think the idea is that it's alluring and appetizing not because of the chocolate, but because the chocolate is received with a grateful heart. So I think, so that's why I said it's easier said than done. The idea is help your kids to be thankful, model thankfulness yourself, like be genuinely thankful, be spent, all those gospel principles that if I jump in and do more than my share of the cleanup, aren't the kids just gonna take advantage of that? What if they do? You know, once in a while.
Like, if it has a norm every day, that's bad, but if it is a big-hearted effort to practice the gospel and to give, give, give like God does to us, then that is going to have its effect over time. So I think you scratched a number of things, but the biggest is just to practice and then try to cultivate thankfulness. Then when it is a Sabbath dinner of macaroni and cheese, it's like this is a big party. This is good. There's times for that too. You kind of touched on this in a couple of questions, but when teaching a child to be grateful, or to give, to be generous, is it more effective to ask things from them or to give to them?
Because I can think of like a rebuttal to both of those that someone's like, well, if you ask for things from your children, aren't you teaching them to be needy? And it's like, well, if you're giving your children so many things, aren't you making them a spoiled brat? And obviously, it seems like it would be a balance, but how would you do that, part A? Also part B is then when you are around people who are not children, who you're not directly in charge of, and you're just trying to share with them this culture, how would you apply that? So like asking things from or giving. Yeah, I would just say that there's a place for both.
There's a place for both. For little tiny guys, I mean, ask, oh, that's really cool, Spider-Man action figure. May I see it? And he lets you see it. And then, hey, thanks for sharing. Then give it back. Don't say, thank you very much and run away. Hey, I said thank you. I mean, I'm teaching and thankfulness. But then when they do give you a firm and praise that, that hey, you did something really, really good there.
Coaching in terms of sharing with playmates, I'm like hey, this is how it works. For our kids, part of the deal, when they have friends come over, unless the parents of the kids who come over want their kids helping to clean up after themselves, We say, you are free to go, this is part of the deal. We wanna train our kids that this is the way it works. You have people over, you clean up after them, so we totally got this. If you want to train your kid to help clean up after them, self by all means go ahead, but otherwise, you guys do not need to feel any obligation to stick around. So all of those sorts of things have their place.
I don't know, yeah, the frame of the child changes as a child develops to, you know, when does a child start understanding what it's like to be giving away and never getting it back? Like, you know, I'm giving you a gift. So he does know what it's like to grow up in a culture where that's a norm. So where that is a normal feature, where he sees generosity practiced, it is definitely not always the case that that translates, but it does a lot. And then the second part was with regard to adults, and then ask the question again. It was just the same thing in how do you communicate that kind of culture to someone else.
But it seems like when I was thinking about adults, I'm like, okay, well, it seems more obvious that it would be that you would just give to them, them and that they would understand that better. If you just kept giving and giving, in that they would take that differently than childhood. But how, because you probably wouldn't invite someone over and then you're like, I'm really going to show them what generosity is like because they're not used to that. And so I'm going to ask to borrow their car. Or something.
Yeah, but so would you say that showing, moving past showing a child, but showing an adult or someone your own age generosity that you would just keep giving to them in a myriad of ways? I think so. I mean, I think if I understand the question correctly, I think with an older person, I'd be more inclined to just model it without any strings attached and then leave the... I mean, because God does that with us all the time. So then let it have its effect. And there's no guarantee that it will, but that's OK, because it's more blessed to give than to receive. So part of it is to fix your own heart, to make it so that you're actually OK, just giving, just blessing without.
So don't enter into the transaction. I'm not expecting anything in return for this. I'm just giving. And then you'll find that not only are you happier, but they're probably likely to be more grateful. who you want to bless with this. Or even if they get 40% is going to be saving, but you just set aside for gifts that you're going to get later at birthdays or Christmas or whatever for your friends. And then you get the other part for your spendants. In a budget from what they earn, or even just providing them with opportunities and saying, hey, this is a family project, you can think about what you want to do with this, with this, for who your grandma was.
That's good. One more part that I just thought of. So with gratefulness and teaching gratefulness, it would seem more applicable to really young people. But should we be concerned that when there's an abundance of gift that you will lose gratefulness? So like saying, if you got your children 20 Christmas presents instead of three, or if you gave them so many dessert options instead of one. Or if you presented more options that they might forget about, some of the other ones, should we be concerned about that at all or just load it up? You should absolutely be concerned about it. But from my experience, there is no hard and fast connection related to it.
If you give them more than two gifts, they're not going to be thankful for them. People can be miserly with no money or miserly with a lot of money. Little kids can be grabby and stingy with lots of gifts or with little, with few gifts. They can be deeply grateful for 100 gifts or none. So it is, so that sounds like a Christian cop-out, but it is, it actually is more about cultivating genuine gratefulness. And I don't know, generally at Christmas time, we go big.
And that is because the advent of Christ is a big deal. And we want them circling that on their calendar for the rest of their lives. That the lead up, the four weeks leading up and then same day. So birthdays, we don't go nearly as big of birthdays, but really the heart behind it is what's more important than the actual stuff. Yes, Sariva? I think on that note real quick is gifting children, especially little ones, lots of things, the secret is like giving them time to enjoy and savor each one as they are receiving it. I don't know. That's just a side note. But back to clarifying my food doesn't matter. It does.
The thing is, don't let the food be the block to the feasting. I have feasted amazingly on lentil stew, and I have feasted amazingly on steaks and presented things of different levels. And we were invited. Philip and Nellia are a great example of this because they invited us over for a little dessert. And it was like the most amazing smorgasbord table full of all the sweet and savory things you could ever imagine. And it made me rethink what it is to present a bountiful gift to friends. And sometimes I do only have brownies, but they presented a whole new opportunity for me to think about it in that way. But lentils are great, too.
They can be. I was just thinking about discussion about example and how you lead by example. And certainly our attitudes are a big one. But also as you're raising little ones and modeling, sorry, and modeling prayer and teaching them how to pray, teaching them how to pray with a thankful heart for the little things as well as the big things is really, I think, helpful to frame their perspective as they then go about their day, seeing opportunities for, like, reflecting in their own heart about how they can be thankful for things that they see that are small or big. So I would say, like, family prayer time, discussion time, like, where do you see God showing up, you know, what can you be thankful for?
Because sometimes you get in kind of a rut and it's really hard to see, or you had a really bad day and it's hard to think about what am I thankful for, like where did I see God? But if it is like a regular practice and discussion, then that I think bubbles up into their prayer life and then you can really hear where they're thankful or maybe opportunities to cultivate more more thankfulness. Because if they're just always, you know, kind of perfunctory prayers or not specific, like there's an opportunity to have discussion and drill down into that a little bit more. That's a good word. So as we talk about formidable feasting, you mentioned that the neighbors around us don't see it as jealousable. So as we have that vision to be formidable, how do we spill into other parts of the community other than just the local neighbors here?
question. How do we do it? So here there is Jim I think was a one of the first I heard pray for it to for us to be an unignorable presence in Marysville and that's a I like that and that that presupposes a couple of things that there is something that they can't ignore if they want to and then that they're at least paying attention enough to not ignore. So there's a couple things there. We remain, I think that what we have is pretty great and worth trying to export even though we are recipients of grace. So whatever we have is awesome and it's not actually because of us. I can say that without the slightest hesitation our boasting would be in the Lord and he has given us some really great things that he will give to you too. For that we remain a pretty well-kept secret. I think we have we have some work to do but I do think the needle is moving the right way little by little as some of it happens and just as as as we do things here but as we we export our worldview and our different cul-de-sacs and communities and spheres of influence we do it at the school as
well. And so then ideally some of the same sort of mission worldview philosophy pieces would trickle out into other churches too. So it is nowhere near as fast as we would like no doubt, but I do think it's happening little by little and with, but yeah, you put finger on the on a weakness. Remember as we're seeking to be jealous there's there's two kinds of people in the non-Christian world those who are yet to be saved and those who will never be saved. We're gonna always irritate those who are never gonna be saved and so some of your neighbors may always say you could be the most jealous of old Christian ever they're just gonna hate and so be it. But then there are those who are being saved. Now those who are being saved may look like those who will never be saved for a while. So we never know who's never gonna be saved until they die and then it becomes evident. And so we just continue to live our lives, live the justable life and let it manifest itself in their lives. But however it's gonna manifest, just
you make sure we're not being jerky, but if people are gonna be mad at us for seeing Happy Birthday in a parking lot. You know, that's their deal, not ours. Alright, well, good questions. We can put a pin on it, or put a bow on it, or mix metaphors. Let's stand together.
